Premier League — Matchweek 5

West Ham down 2-0 after 16 minutes…

I wonder if there will be a call for Moyes to come back.

West Ham continuing their post-Moyes collapse.

Gundogan is back at City. Should have scored a beauty there.

Haaland did, City 1-0.

Point in case, where is Ederson, for Arsenal’s second goal there?

Tony,

He knew he couldn't get to the ball, so just fell over to try and dishonestly get a foul.

Two classic headers from two excellent corners for Arsenal, first a warning, second a doozzy, after a very confident Haaland goal.

And now Trossard sent off!

Michael, he couldn’t get to the ball because he was blocked off by two Arsenal players. Clear foul.

Kicking the ball away knob - isn't that two times already this season for the same thing by an Arsenal fella?

Arsenal have been miles better since Rodri left the game. They nearly always seem to have 9 or 10 behind the ball because Man City are taking too long to do something. Without Doku, their foward movement would be negligible.

Since he scored in the 9th minute, Haaland has not touched the ball once and has been mentioned twice in 5live commentary when balls did not reach him.

Les,

I don't think he made much of an effort to get to the ball, and just dropped when he saw how many players he would've had to barge his way through.

I think the VAR looked at it but was not unduly concerned… so he may not have seen what you did.

Ah yes Michael ……the infallibility of VAR!

Raya is the best goalie in the Premier League at this moment.

How did Ruben not get a yellow there?

City last lost at home in the Premier League 681 days ago. They look lost, like Wednesday. Zilch creativity.

Very "professional" from Arsenal and Arteta. Haaland has had one touch in the second half so far.

Arsenal players going down and wasting time. Excellent gamesmanship.

Easy to blame Dyche but our players have to take responsibility. They're thick, they're brainless and they take zero responsibility.

Easy to blame Dyche but reality is our senior players have not helped at all.

For all those who love to slag us off when we can't break down a team that sits back and just defends, look how difficult it is even for Man City with the embarrassment of riches they have on the pitch.

Talk about a sending-off ruining a game.

Great post Ben (13): everything is down to our "thick" and "brainless" players. Top punditry.

Erm, players "have to take responsibility"? Did you not listen to Calvert-Lewin and Tarkowski after Villa? In complete contrast to lastmimute.com who accepted no responsibility.

Some of the recent attempts (especially on the Thelwell thread) to either whitewash or paper over the cracks in Dyche are flatly embarrassing.

They got there in the end Brian mate, our Stonesey.

Did indeed mate.

So goalkeepers are allowed to come and claim crosses???

Who knew?

Murdered Sutton this weekend with 6 correct results if this stays the same.

Starting to get a bit like a merseyside derby

Wonderful game for a multitude of reasons.

Anyone else see the stupid throwing of the ball to one of the Arsenal player's back of head by that ugly twat Haaland when he collected the ball from the net when Stones scored?

I bet you he gets totally away with it!

I honestly couldn't see City scoring there but full credit to them.

Arsenal defended magnificently and even with 10 men limited Haaland to very little.

Arsenal had to play that way once they went down to ten men but that was stretching the rules to the limit the longer the game lasted. I was made up for Man City even though they lost 2 points.

It would be interesting to see the possession stats for the second half, maybe 95% City and 5% Arsenal… and we think our possession stats stink!

I think that gamesmanship will have definitely come from Arteta, but it's not a disease that has been inflicted on many players who have worn the Royal Blue Jersey, this century.

I still shake my head at the very last bit of action, just before the Fiorentina game went into extra time and Lee Carsley was put about four foot into the air, after a very late tackle and instead of rolling around like an Italian, our very honest player, just got up and shook his opponent's hand.

If that was in Italy, Everton would have just gone down to ten men, was what I was telling everyone around me. The contradiction is that I have always respected honesty but, I've been watching football for a long time and can't remember seeing many honest Italian footballers.

What about Paulo D'Canio, at Goodison……..? I know!

Paul (21),

Go head, mate, give us a few of those reasons!

Arsenal play-acting and time-wasting and rolling around has gone to another level under Arteta, I can't stand him.

I'm watching more Rugby League these days, what do they and boxers think when they see footballers rolling around? They seem to be okay with pain when getting thighs and necks tattooed.

Kane and Rashford also terrible at cheating.

Imagine that we had the caliber of players that Arsenal have at their disposal and because we were down to ten, Sean Dyche set up his Everton side like that in the second half, what would the reaction be?

I know why Arteta did it, tough week of football, didn't think he could allow City a 5-point lead on Arsenal at this early point in the season and he very nearly managed to escape with all 3 points.

I seem to remember, I'm pretty sure it was Blackburn in the 90s came to Goodison and sat behind the ball for most of the game. I can't remember whether it was a game where they took a two-goal lead very early on, and just sat back for the rest of the game. Perhaps it was another game, but I seem to remember the Goodison crowd giving them stick for being so negative.

Fred, correct, Everton hammered them that day and lost, the goaline was like a pinball machine.

Even Hanson said on MotD (his mate of course Blackburn manager) admitted Rovers were very lucky.

Ha Dave (26)!

Just heard a fella on 606 saying that Rodri deliberately got himself taken off (evidence, his first-minute collapse) and simply did not want to play in that game!

Completely off topic, Dave. I've been watching some of our city in the olden days videos and pictures. Were you around for the overhead railway? That must have been some trip and view. Did it end in Seaforth?

Paul Ferry #15,

I can't believe I have to spell it out but seems I have to:

I'd like the player to take responsibility on the pitch. Actions, not words.

When we were 2-1 up v Bournemouth, yes, Dyche could have done better but so could have the players.

Exactly the same v Leicester – how many of our players go down to buy some respite?

How many create a flash-point with the opposition to gee up our players and the crowd?

Obviously Dyche could or should have done more. But tell me more than 1 of our players that stood up in a leadership role in our last 3 league matches to disrupt the game and momentum or pattern that was emerging?

(Honestly, can't believe I've had to spell this out… especially straight after the Arsenal performance.)

Fred (28),

Yes it was the year Blackburn won the league, as you say they scored two quick goals before Stuart Barlow(?) pulled one back and Everton had plenty of the play. Blackburn were reduced to booting the ball out of play every time they could to alter the flow of the game including Shearer and most of the Blackburn players.

Paul (30),

Yes, it was a great service especially for the dockers employed on every dock along that route and great to look at, pity it was dismantled. Yes, I think it finished in Seaforth at the Gladstone Dock (?) and at the other end possibly Garston Dock.

Not sure if I used it myself when I started work but remember going on it a few times when I was younger.

Paul, my grandad took me on the old overhead railway when I was about 5 or 6. Ran from Seaforth as I remember it.

Dock after dock with ocean-going "stuff". Amazing. I wonder what would have been in Bramley-Moore Dock when we went past it?!

Actually Ben (King), you should indeed have made it clear that you were talking about "on the pitch" as one of the running themes on these pages for a couple of weeks now has been manager and players accepting responsibility in post-match comments.

So, you can now believe that you need to spell things out. Much better to not have too much grey. I did notice that you did not respond to my words on your (top punditry) moronic "thick" and "brainless" comments. Some depth there. I'm guessing that you are extremely well educated.

Brilliant Brent and Dave. I'm envious. Top memories. Was that its main aim, to get dockers to their dock?

I just had a look on line and it went on from Gladstone Dock to Seaforth and Litherland station and ended at Herculaneum Dock on the other side of town (sorry, coming from Crosby, it's the other side!). Getting off at the Pier Head would have been brill and a nice walk into town (not as convenient as the old L3 from Crosby bus station!).

The other thing that occurred to me was that those green buses never made it to Crosby. We were Ribble land. The only one that did was the 30C that dropped us off at the flyover by County Road for the match!

Brent (33), I worked in a lot of those docks, as a fruit porter and while some of them were very busy like Kings, Princes and Canada docks some of them had little business going on in them.

Not sure if I ever worked in Bramley-Moore Dock but I remember Garston Dock and working on the banana boats.

We unloaded banana's all day long until we were sick of the sight of them and yet one fella came in for the three days we worked on them with banana sandwiches for his breaks, I hope he never stole them!

Great stuff, Dave.

Paul Ferry #34,

Where would you like players to take responsibility? Almost all fans would rather players take responsibility on the pitch and affect the result rather than with words. Deeds not words.

Do it when and where it matters…..in the game.

As for the rest of your post: what is your question that you'd like me to respond on? Are you asking me the meanings of the words ‘thick' and ‘brainless'?

It'd probably help all of us if you pose your questions in the traditional format.

Incidentally you've done nothing to counter my point: our players have not taken responsibility on the pitch in the same way that the Arsenal players did today: to disrupt the rhythm, to slow the game or to change the momentum.

If you have a valuable counter-point to offer along with examples, I'd love to hear it.

Erm, Ben (K), I have not responded to your clearly self-evident point about it being on the pitch because it was not self-evident to me.

So, this is not hard, I responded to the on-the-pitch scenario that has been talked about on here a lot recently. So, you were talking about players taking responsibility on the pitch, not in their interviews (thanks for clearing that up) and I agree that players should take responsibility on the pitch.

Nice bit of ducking and weaving, Ben, but I think it's clear enough: (1) I brought attention to your "thick" and "brainless" comments because I think that they are (pick two or three), daft, dumb, dickheadish, derisory, uncalled for imo, magnificently general and lumping etc. - and (2) defend those words that you aimed at "the players", not one, not two, not three, not seven, but "the players".

Paul #39,

Okay, you're in general agreement with me that our players could or should have done more to impact the results of the last 3 league games with a bit of shithousery – that's good that we see that aspect the same way.

I suspect that we also agree that the manager could or should have done more, eg, 3 centre-backs v Bournemouth at 2-1 plus disruptive subs etc.

So our point of disagreement (as far as I can tell) is my name-calling of our players?

Well, I can defend ‘thick' and ‘brainless'. Mykolenko chasing up the pitch v Bournemouth when we're 2-1 with 3 minutes of normal time left was utterly brainless. Why leave the gap in behind that was subsequently exploited for the equaliser?

Our man Pickford (who I very much like and rate) glues himself to the line and rarely (if ever) comes to take a cross. Yes, I accept he's shorter than the average keeper and thus can't take 3-4 crosses per game but judgement wise: 1-2 per match?!

Keane was brainless ducking his head for Villa's first and allowing the shorter Watkins to out-jump him. Brainless. And he makes stupid decisions regularly – recall the stupid penalty he gave away agaisnt Kane at Goodison last year? (While I'm on that subject, what about the stupid penalty Pickford gave away against Kane the year before?)

The winner for Villa that Dhuran scored… are we going to ignore Tarkowski turning away from the shot rather than letting it hit him in the face?

I do think our players are thick at times and it's been evident a lot this season. There's zero in-game delay or game management or disruption to the flow (like we saw by Arsenal today) or that previous players like Richarlison, Maupay or Arteta used to do. If players can't read the game and manage it, then I have a very low opinion of their footballing IQ.

It may offend you; so be it.

Good post, Ben (40). I still bristle with 'thick' and 'brainless' for word choice for the most part.

I agree with most of the incidents you point to. I think some of this is down to the pressure-cooker that we have become where some of the fellas rush things or have poor first thoughts.

It doesn't help things that we have a hard-boiled egg barking from the sideline whose game management is appalling.

Paul #41

Fair enough

Dave @ 36; The School of Tropical Medicine in Town had an annex at Garton Hospital just for the bites of deadly spiders hiding in the bananas...DaaaayO, DaaayO etc.

Derek (43), Yes I saw one of those snidey, slippery little snakes not spiders coming out of the packages they came in on one occasion, lost my claim for the nerves, stress and nightmares I suffered for months after that little episode, my solicitor was bleedin’ useless and no it wasn’t Rex Makin!