Pickford beaten in goal as England lose to Greece

How fecking long is this international break then?

Is that Andy Warhol managing Greece?

Carsley won't stay in the job if it carries on like this.

No Bonnie there isn't.

And the sooner people understand how ordinary English players are, the sooner the delusion will stop.

Also - Greek puns much harder than I expected.

Experimental lineup or not, there was a lot of England's prime attacking talent on the pitch there and they basically created the square root of fuck all. And the defence was even worse!

Absolutely woeful performance.

Pickford was awful. Too casual and panicking at every cross.

Hopefully Carsley will learn it's not about just putting your better players on the pitch.

All these attackers trying to do a Rambo. No orchestration. No cohesion.

England need a Rodri. Or even a half-Rodri.

He has a bunch of players running around like headless chickens.

Sure a few have some real talent but without a Rooney or Shearer it's all a waste of time.

He continues to play a right back as a utility player all over the pitch but achieving nothing of note like he did under Southgate who was heavily criticized for it.

No starting place for Walker, Madison or Eze which baffles me but average players like Gordon get to start.

Sorry Lee but your tenure will be brief.

Bring back Big Sam (chuckle)

Thus England come A-cropper-lis

And also of over-rated, under-achieving English players.

On Gordon, he's over rated. He scores some reasonable goals but not many and wastes loads of good chances.

Bellingham, Rice, Foden and Alexander Arnold havent approached the standards that got them into the England team.

Stones and Colwell were totally exposed and inadequate. Where was the defensive MF.

An awful team selection Lee with no preconception of Greece's strengths.

And as tonight, before that game, I thought the coach had lost his mind. Shame though as I'd have liked to see the old Evertonian do well but I can't see Carsley bouncing back from this.

Lewis is nowhere near this level.

I have never said a single bad word about our Jordan that was not deserved. Never. But with a new gaffer knocking on the door, I fear that JP's England days are numbered. He was so poor. That throw for the last disallowed goal summed it up, sadly.

Carsley will not get the job. I'm sick and tired of hard-boiled eggs anyway.

I'm struggling to come up with something saka/moussaka jokey and failing badly.

Why people continue to watch England and expect to be entertained is beyond me. A set of average players who only look good when they playing for there club sides.

Both for his sake and The Clubs sake...which, upon quick reflection is or should be, the same thing...and given that 'everything' will be reset / year zero with the advent of the new TFG regime.

As both his Club and International bosses positions are, at the moment - for different reasons in a state of flux.

Also, Didn't we just 'lose' a Goalkeeping Coach who had been here a number of years??

Pickford should seriously think about taking an International 'Gap 6 mths' - or even a 'Gap Year'...he could add the proviso that should 'duty call', he's only a phone call away.

He should 'Include himself Out', let the 'noise' die down, stick to his 'day job', concentrate on his own form...work on his swing in golfing terms.

Carsley has maybe just had his - 'Alf Ramsey in his early days who lost 5-2 to France*' moment.

I think he'll get 1 reprieve, but I'm not sure how many more.

*Labone thought he got saddled with a lot of the blame for that one, but he went on to win the League in 63 and Cup in 66.

Later on he too went through a rough period of form, so much so that he told Catterick he wanted to retire right there and then. Catterick convinced him (no doubt bricking it because he had no real replacement) to stay on until the end of the season.

The decision made and thus the pressure off, his form returned and he went from strength to strength all the way to Mexico.

While there are average or averagy or less good players, the players v Greece are nowhere being average.

Brasil would lick her lips to have their Saka, Jude, Palmer, or Foden. The problem Paul is that they don't often play as a team and behind every Bellingham v Greece there was a Lewis, Pickford sadly, and fucking Guehi who I each night get on my knees and pray to the higher being that Liverpool buy.

We need hair mate. We could do worse than the Greek gaffer Andy Warhol.

"Also - Greek puns much harder than I expected."

It's a feta complis that someone will make a cheesy pun.

Personally, I didn't even know the game was on until I looked on here for Everton stuff.

I like Jordan but last night all his worst traits came to the fore. His madness affected the defence which was already stuffed with defenders who can't defend.

As for Carsley. What was he thinking? His team selection was like that of a 9-year-old’s list for Father Christmas

I didn't see it, but interesting seeing Carsley's interview this morning. Saying he hopes he can go back to U21s.

When there were suggestions for him to be Everton manager, my son did say that hes happier at development level.

Not that I'm too fussed, but curious as to who England would go for.

Hope you're doing well, Danny.

The test of a manager really comes into focus when presented with such a circumstance, is there a plan b, if not why not...

And surely you come up with plan b by half time...

He put his hands up to his failed experiment, but didn't fix it, so a big learning moment we hope.

Individual players, phew, no one shone, Jordan was at his random worst, but Greece just ran into spaces created by England having 7 or 8 attack coached players with glory in their eyes, they punished England repeatedly.

22 men on the park, but only one team, and they won.

I'm all good. Sisters and cousins fussing over me. Suggesting I should give Everton a miss.

Not a language I understand.

And so they should be, given all that has happened. I'm glad to hear it.

But we know what your medicine is.

Very good players shoe horned in instead of the players for the position dictated by a strategy to get the best out of the sum of its parts.

Been like this since Lampard, Slippy, Beckham and Scholes.

Never mind, as long as we keep selling them tv rights and merch to the far east.

Despite playing for an ultra conservative coach for years These are supremely talented individuals have still manage to keep getting to finals and semi-finals of the WORLDS major tournaments ? They only come up short against better teams.

All my life I have seen world class individuals beaten by better coached, better organised teams. Does that make the individuals less talented ? If England want to take the next step and actually win a tournament they have to change something. Carsley (who doesnt want the job) was experimenting. How do we know that ?...Because he told so.

Those of a certain vintage will remember a Mario Zagallo "experimenting". The "Mad bastard" played five number tens in the same team. He was abused, ridiculed and even faced death threats. The press murdered him. The fans screamed for his removal. He ignored them all and went on to produce arguably the greatest football team of all time - The benefits of not listening to the self-proclaimed coach.

Experiments don't always work, but they are essential. How else do you turn a group of talented individuals into a great team ? Carsley (who says he is looking forward to going back to the under 21's ) was in a position to experiment. unfortunately the reaction will almost certainly put the next permanent manager off trying it.

The Greeks were the better TEAM last night, fair play to them.

The greeks were no great shakes but played with freedom they weren't complicated by possession football hence hoofing it when necessary and running purposefully at that woeful England back line when they could.

By contrast England players play formula footy the thought process is almost audible - "I get in this zone pass sideways to bad haircut boy who trundles it to posturing Herbert before aimlessly passing back to the keeper to start again".

When England equalized there was a 5 minute spell when the shackles come off and they played "proper" football just like the stuff you played on the park. Yes, it can make you more vulnerable and that horrendous defense let another in but my bet is you win more than you lose playing with freedom and with decent players you win stuff.

The biggest example is the crew across the park. Since Shankly they've got at teams from minute one with the simplest of hard running games doing the basics and have won everything bar the grand national.

Everton take note.

I can remember way back Wales having three big centre forwards. Toshack, Ron Davies and Wyn Davis. If all three were fit, they started.

I honestly think that Alf Ramsey is the only England coach who didn't shoehorn players into the team.

Was it Ron Greenwood who alternated Shilton and Clemence? Great coaches don't do that.

I think Lee Carsley deserves some plaudits for trying something different. The fact that it didn't work so well could be down to not having some players available for it to be fully put into practice and lack of preparation.

Better to try something in games which don't necessarily have much importance and in the absence of friendlies, the Nations League is the next best thing.

Players need to get used to Lee Carsley and vice-versa. Am sure he would love to be appointed England national team manager and his comments about being 'hopeful' of return to U21s are borne out of a realisation that however well he does as the interim manager, he may not get the job so hopes he wouldn't be overlooked when going back to U21s.

Just heard that Spain's current manager lost his 2nd game in charge 2 nil to Scotland. Imagine Spain are pleased they kept him.

Ultimately Carsley tried something new, it didn’t work, end of. No one died. The game and ‘tournament’ is pretty meaningless in any case.

I hope he doesn’t get the job, he clearly doesn’t want it in any case. Let someone else deal with the usual round pegs in square holes that’s been the England team for about the last 20 years. The ‘96 side for me was the last one that really had balance and quality all over the pitch - Darren Anderton excepted.

When does the real football start again? Do we really need THREE international breaks from September to November? There’s way too much international football. Even the group games in the major tournaments have become boring, never mind the Nations League and friendlies.

It might be time to give him a stint on the bench. Maybe it might help him to refocus as so far this season has not been his best.

All players go through a dodgy period. Thoughts vary from drop him to play through it. That may be fair for an outfield player, however, at Premier League level, playing without the whole 11 playing at 100%, especially goalies, only ends in one way.

When Jack Charlton said to Sir Alf Ramsey, "Gaffer, why am I in the team? There are better players than me available", Ramsey replied, "I don't want you to play. I want you to stop them playing".

He was one of the best players against Newcastle?

Jordan has been fantastic for us since he's came. I will not fault him.

However, now and again, best going outside the firing line.

Ya'll have been to quite a few world-class international finals and semi-finals in the past 6 years (but lost, admittedly 😜) so it's hard to really agree that English players only look good next to their (insert any other nationality) teammates in the Premier League.

Like the talent is there…maybe you just need an American manager or something?

I've heard about Big Jack Charlton, that Sir Alf Ramsey was asked why him? Alf replied, because he doesn't trust Bobby Moore. Bobby Moore was the smoothest, one of the best defenders I have ever seen.

Imagine a John Stones that made a mistake every three years instead of three mistakes every game.

“Sometimes in football it becomes a bit weird because a couple of scruffy passes actually gets you out and gets us countered quite quickly - and Greece did that a few times.

“They played the long ball and won probably second balls more than we won and that might have been the difference. But the football we played was good. We weren't far off. It was only two or three transitions in which we got caught. Apart from that, we controlled it.

“We knew they were going to have transitions and it's about us getting back into shape. And we did it for large parts of the evening and a couple of times we got caught.

“It's never nice for a player or staff to get beat at Wembley. The manager picked the team and we've just got to try and execute the game plan.

“We've not had long to get ourselves ready. People played Sunday so they had to recover properly because everyone's played a lot of games over the last month.

"We didn't get it fully right and we got beat. Now we've just got to go and win away on Sunday against Finland and then the next camp in Greece away and Ireland at home.”

The only thing missing is "Fine margins".

I'll get me coat.

Spot on, Bobby, because they take no fucking pride in playing for their shitty countries who clearly rank well below Everton in their loyalties. Don't they?

Beyond you? Well that probably says something about you Bobby.

File under knobhead post.