Tim Howard left overwhelmed by the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock

It's not a facade, he loves us.

Tim failed at Man Utd and no matter how well he performed for us, it always felt a bit like a cast-off from the elite. Jordan may still be a Champions League-winning keeper, maybe with us, while Tim had shown he wasn't going to be.

Should deffo get him more involved with the Friedkins as our ambassador as he never fails to talk us up in the USA market.

Rubbishing him as a player, then setting him up to be an ambassador for the club 🤔

I thought Howard gave us his best years and was an excellent keeper for us during his day.

But hey ho, that's why we have opinions.

A decent keeper for us in some decent teams. Probably the best we were going to get at the time and he served us well.

Sadly, we only had him at the end of career. We could have had him earlier, but if the rumours are to be believed, we messed him around during talks and if the hamper story is true (surely not), then who could have blamed him for heading up the M62 to Elland Road?

But as I said on another thread about Kanchelskis, I don't regard Andrei as world class cause he didn't maintain it over a long period of time.

Tim in his position overall had more good seasons than Andrei but Pickford and Southall have/had world class performances on a regular basis.

Martyn I'd put at the same level as Howard though for some reason Martyn had most of his world class appearances in a short space of time when he was a veteran at Everton. Kinda like Les Sealey after years being good at Luton saved his best for his swansong at Man Utd.

So career overall neutrals might argue Howard was better than Martyn but in terms of Everton only Martyn was better. But either way, Howard, Martyn, Southall and Pickford are the stand out very good to excellent goalies we've had in my lifetime. Nobody else comes close.

And some of our greatest have been "cast-offs from the elite", as you call them (Sheedy, anyone?).

Served us very well as mentioned above. His starfish impressions aside that is!

Arguably the only modern Everton player who was the best in the world in his prime.

He was really that good for 4/5 years.

Tim Howard was a great servant to the club and clearly loves us. Should have saved Lampard's shot in the 2009 final though.

I'd say that's an accurate statement. Mid 80s we had Dassaev from the USSR, as possibly the only contender to Nev but I'd say Nev wins.

Zoff and Schumacher had gone into the sunset, Carlos of Brazil, Bats of France weren't that good. Zenga was on the rise but never came to fruition.

Clemence and Shilton were good but not good enough to play for good teams. Who else was there? That Zimbabwean match-fixing clown at the RS? I definitely think Nev was in a league of his own for 2 or 3 years.

He was part of that irritating all-conquering Liverpool team of the 70s and 80s and his honours list is seemingly endless. He won just about everything, a lot of them more than once.

Clemence seemed to end up playing second fiddle to Shilton in the England set-up. I thought the Liverpool man was the better of the two.

Around that era, I always liked Pat Jennings. More recently, you couldn't help but rate Peter Schmeicel.

On the continent, we mustn't forget the Italian, Buffon and again, more recently Manuel Neuer of Germany.

Can't believe I forgot Jennings. But if I put a time stamp on this, I'd say 84-86 Nev was the best by which time Clemence was at Spurs, Jennings was about to be embarrassed by Josimar at the 86 World Cup, and we were a few years away from Schmeichel who emerged at Euro 88.

One more I should mention was Jim Leighton but he wasn't as good as Nev.

Clemence played behind that miserly RS defence who just passed it back to him all the time. He was never called upon to make as many saves as Nev was.

Yes, Southall was the best in Europe at the time. I'm glad I had the privilege to watch him and the rest of that period.

Back to Tim, I like the suggestion of him being a North American ambassador for the club. I thought at the time, we should have made more of the connection, as well as players like Landon Donovan and Brian McBride.

Similarly, with Tim Cahill in his native Australia and New Zealand. Don't laugh at the latter. There is a certain Nottingham Forest striker who isn't doing too bad this season.

And that would be some pre-season tour!!!

Carragher instantly said "Neville Southall. Not well known because he played for Everton but best ever."

No other name even came up. Schmeichel's eyebrows shot up, Thierry and Micah looked at each other, there was a moment of silence and a shrug or two, and then on to the next question.

Nev hasn't played in 25 years, and think how many great keepers have come since -- Kahn, Casillas, Buffon, Neuer -- yet among those who played the game, nobody's name occurred except Nev's.

Kinda says it all.

I don't have any Northern Irish ancestors though two great grandparents, one who was in the British Army, the other press ganged into the original IRA, both in 1918.

But I did meet Pat Jennings on the tube. I recognized him and said “Are you Pat Jennings?” He said "Yes." We had a friendly chat then everyone else cottoned on to it and suddenly the poor bloke was over-run by rowdy Spurs fans.

Similarly a few years later at the National Theatre, I saw a familiar face and asked for his autograph then again the more discerning crowd poured forward clamoring for his autograph at which point several men in suits abruptly escorted him out of the theatre for his own safety. His name was Salman Rushdie.

It was then I realized it's not always wise to call out a famous face in public.

Dai Davies was in goal when I started watching the blues. We have had some top class goalies over the years. We can we attract top goalies and defenders but can't find anyone at the top end of the pitch.

Best:
Southall
Pickford
Howard

Worst:
McDonagh
Richard Wright
Steve Simonsen

Kieran, my Grandad was in Burma in WW2. My Godfathers dad, Patrick (Paddy) Morrison was from Dublin and rioted against the black and tans. As I was leaving to join the Army, him and his youngest son (born and raised in Garston and Speke) told me they hated the British Army, but told me I was okay and gave me their blessing!!

Talking of disputes, we've got the second round against Slot and co next week after the handbags at Goodison. It can't come quick enough. I hope Tim is hanging around and goes home with a proud smug grin on his face.

"Press ganged"... I can see how that worked for the British and probably other navy's.

But for the land locked IRA. how did that come to pass?

Turned out Banksie was on the panel which gave their verdict on postboned games for Littlewoods Pools and also on the spot the ball panel for the same company.

I never had the presence of mind to ask him for his autograph.

Letting that 40 yarder in from McAllister alone is reason to add him to the list. It was so far out it took 3 seconds to reach the net, with Gerrard doing a dying swan dive to try to get across.

You’ve disproved my theory on outing celebs.

Brendan,

He was a 16 year old kid and apparently the press ganging went something like this “we’ve locked these bastards in the town jail. We are off to fight the British. Here’s a gun if you let them out we’ll fucking kill you.”

Richard Wright was a very poor keeper.

Not "press ganging" as it's generally understood then?

By the way...who were the "bastards"?

I mean if they are off to fight the British?

I don't have many famous player or people encounters, but I did happen to bump into Andy Burnham at Euston Square station on the way home from the 3-2 Tottenham match this season. He asked if I'd been to the match. He had. We discussed it and then I asked him why he wasn't Mayor of Liverpool. He smiled and said "good question". I didn't know what to read into that.

And Dave, along with John, thank you for reminding me of one of my worst Everton moments. And there have been a few.

That whole phase of play. It should have been a free kick to us, but gets given their way. Then McAlister moves the ball about 10 yards forward from where the incident happened. He puts a shot from distance that seemed to bobble more than it flew in. Gerrard, rather than shuffle across, drop to his knee and gather the ball, dives like a dying, flapping salmon and the ball somehow ends up in the net.

I'm off to bed. Hopefully I won't wake up thinking about that one.

Now I bet they are thinking what bloody idiot wasted all that space when we could be making money out of it, hotel, gym, training facilities, pub, considering the debt we are in.

And why didn't we make it the biggest stadium in Merseyside? Let's hope if our new owners buy the dock next to Bramley-Moore that they don't go all heritage woke and turn it into a swimming pool for a rookery of seabirds, and well you can't have two canals, can you? 😀

I know you’re not the sharpest knife in the drawer but oddly enough the people they were going off to fight were other British people. I know you expect every poster to provide 19 sources cited on here before posting but since I’m lazy I’ll tell you to look up the history of Wexford and figure the rest out your cantankerous self.

Andy Rankin in front of the Kop

I was directly behind half way up the Anfield Rd terracing. Roger Hunt blasted that shot from the edge of the box and it was heading for the top right hand corner. I can still remember the nose it made when Andy got a hand to it. We won 4-1.

It’s an omen.

I never had the privilege of seeing much of Neville Southall - no such thing as internet streaming then but he is rated as the best by many of my generation so he must have been a great keeper

I rate Nigel Martin right up there because of his command of the 6 yard box. But when it comes to shot stoppers I think Andy deserves a special mention.

Gordon West was my first viewing of a blues keeper, but it was his last year and I think I was 7. I think Andy Rankine took over after but I cant be sure.
I recall Dave Lawson, Dai Davies, George Wood and Jim Arnold.
Ok but none were great.
Other pretty terrible regulars were Bobby Mimms and Martin Hodge.

Nev, Pix, Howard, Martyn for me.

The vast majority of the population of Ireland would not see themselves as British. I mean even the sharpest "tool" can see that?

I've been to Wexford. I've been to Vinegar Hill.

So why are you questioning me over my great grandfathers experience?

Just don't believe it... mate.

The vast majority of men in Ireland did not join the IRA... only a very small minority. So press ganging would have been very counter productive. Informer's and all that.

I'm not sure I want to be the sharpest knive in the drawer... you cut people a bit unnecessarily when you are.

My family hated the IRA but thanks for the “history lesson.”

Who brought the IRA to an Everton thread?

Not me.

So if you don’t introduce a topic it excuses your typically vapid comments?

Kieran (15): I did not know or had forgotten that.

RIP Ray Clemence, a red I never had any issues with apart from being a red, needless to say.

He is remembered mainly for conceding 3 goals, none of which were down to him, in the 1986 FA Cup final, a horrible day. However, he performed very well in the preceding games after stepping in for Nev, conceding only 4 in 10.

Peter… 10 May 1986. I still remember the date. It was gut-wrenching having been so close to the double ourselves.

I remember listening to him describe what it was like to play for USA at the Azteca stadium in front of 90,000 seething Mexicans... Very funny story about what seemed to be a terrifying experience.

I did want to put Gerrard in there but thought Simonson shaded it. I will add him in as 4th worse. I only caught the very end of Lawson's career with us, old footage makes him look about 5ft 7.

I also considered Nigel Martyn he was very good for us, reassuring and steady in goal after Wenger had sold us a dud with Wright but we got him at the end of his career where he could barely kick the ball past the halfway line.

The kiss of death.

Agreed. Bobby Mimms was a very, very, goalkeeper. Never forgiven for not being Neville Southall

* Mimms - puts tin hat on; it's not his fault that Southall got injured and that the team had 2 players, Mountfield and Bracewell carrying injuries, both of whom were not taken off / subbed and finished the the Cup Final.
Mountfield didn't start the next season (this was the reason Watson was signed) and Bracewell didn't kick a ball for 2 yrs.
Both were essentially finished as top class players...but it was all Mimms fault.

Further more, if we had got just a draw from the very early Derby, while we were still working out how to play with Lineker and who played best with him, we win the League no matter about Oxford and the rs big final run in.

Very sad but I can only remember Southall as over the hill.

Hardly surprising, mate, given the contemptuous, racist (murderers, thieves, rapists), arrogant, nationalistic way that the U.S. government and many of its citizens treat Mexico and Mexicans, without whom the world's 5th largest economy could not possibly survive and the 1st largest economy would be in possibly terminal crisis that would make 1929 look like a fart.

I was made up when Mexico won CONCAF 2025 with Panama as runners up. The very definition of poetical/political justice today. Hilarious to watch Poch's misfits get battered by Canada 2-1 and I mean battered. Perhaps some Americans might be able to understand the glee of Europe at that humbling.

Poch would dump USA USA USA in a heartbeat for crasily his true love Spuds if Levy would cough up 80 percent of his current wage.

While I could remember Sandy Brown and Kevin Ratcliffe stepping in between the sticks, I had no recollection of Mick Lyons doing the same thing.

I would go one step back from the defeat at Oxford and to the match prior against Forest when we failed to beat them. I wasn't at the match and listened on the radio, which I hate. I felt a 6th sense that we could blow it.

But we could still do it. I distinctly remember the 6-1 mauling of Southampton. I was in my usual spec right behind the goal above the ledge. Way before mobile and smart phones, someone in the Main Stand, who must have had a transistor radio started gesturing and the Chinese whispers word spread that Liverpool were losing, sending the ground into short-lived euphoria before reality kicked in. False dawn.

We played West Ham, beat them and the Irons supporters around Goodison were wishing us well in the Cup Final, although there was a bit of aggro inside. It wasn't uncommon for a stand off in the corner between the Enclosure and Park End in those days. I think it was that West Ham match. Could have been a different one.

The FA Cup wasn't to be either.

We would have qualified for the European Cup Winners Cup that would have been consolation, but we were disqualified from European competition. Further salt in the wounds for a team and supporters that never got to compete in Europe's top competition twice, through no fault of our own.

Which brings me onto next week. Let's make the trek across the Park, hold our heads high, face that mocking Steaua Bucharest banner, and remind them who the originals are.

I'm surprised that none of their own haven't taken it upon themselves to rip that thing down when it makes an appearance given what it signifies and "celebrates". Surely if they have supporters with a conscience?. Maybe not.

Nothing wrong with going off tangent... happens all the time on ToffeeWeb.

Believing fables that we were told as children... not so much.

I don't recall him ever being called upon, but the talk was that Rooney was a bit handy between the sticks and used to have a go in training.

That's one of the best saves by any keeper in any era. If it was The Bearded Lady from across the park, it would be shown on MotD every week.

On a day when The Greenlanders are preparing to roll out the red carpet for Trumps lacky ?

Derek 55

Your memory is playing tricks my friend. Crisp did not finish a hundred Yards behind Red Rum. He was caught on the line after giving one of the greatest exhibitions of Jumping ever seen at Aintree. If he'd have been carrying the same weight as "Rummy" He would have beaten him by a country mile. The 24lb extra allocated to Crisp by the handicapper is what did for him in those final few strides.

Loved Red Rum. A legend of a horse because of his bravery and longevity, but in terms of pure class. He was not in the same league as Crisp

According to the news, it's scaled back to visit the already existing US Space Force Base that's been there for years following an agreement between Denmark and the US.

I don't know about red carpet. There is a lot of resistance from Greenland. A strong call for independence from Denmark, but resistance to any takeover by the US.

By the way, Laurie, that game was 4-0 not 4-1. I've told you this before — one more time and you're out!

Add my name to those saying Bobby Mimms wasn't the blame for Everton throwing away the double.

Dave Watson was signed because of Pat van den Hauwe's illness!

"I'm surprised that none of their own haven't taken it upon themselves to rip that thing down when it makes an appearance given what it signifies and "celebrates". Surely if they have supporters with a conscience? Maybe not."

No, but they do have stewards, Danny, who would confiscate similar if it was at our end (if we had their shameful history, that is!)

Half of them are so thick they probably don't get it. To see just how thick they are, see Chico Azul reeling them in here:

https://x.com/gianlucachianti/status/1904605824863133807?s=46&t=9_SsH7k6A9iMPSFRzv4eXQ

Dunlop was a decent keeper but too small. When he retired,
he set up a sports shop in competition with Jack Sharps.
He used to ask customers what Sharps charged and would
charge less. The business did not last long.

Gordon West at his peak was tremendous but Neville's the only winner.

Yes the sideshow freak. Crap keeper. The only way to stop the rns getting the title is to phone Putin and say that Trump just called him a fag.

(Before you all kick-off I am not homophobic whatsoever. Putin, the monster is, very very much so.)

He doesn't have a weakness only perceived and his shot stopping is incredible. Did Dyche or any other manager keep us up? Look no further than the man between the posts and how many points he was worth.

Yes, I forgot about Ted Sagar who was about Pickford's size maybe slimmer, a very brave and agile ‘keeper who played at a time when goalies were fair game for bustling forwards and were attacked from all angles, I'd put him second and Martin third.

David… using “Without a shadow of a doubt” on ToffeeWeb?

Those were the days eh!

https://x.com/SiiPuck/status/1761385025340149927

I think I saw Sandy go into goal in a game against Stoke. Andy Rankin had hurt his arm and ended up stuck out on the left wing. 1965-ish?

I think he also went in goal after Gordon was sent off up at St James Park?

Try evertonresults.com a fantastic website full of information.

I mean I did remember all those facts but I just checked in case I was mistaken 😜

When were we ever in Div-2 in our young lifetimes Jeff!

Can't think where else to put this: do the clocks go forwards in old Blighty this weekend? I like being 5 hours behind for three weeks in March.

I was livid when some said maybe going down would be a reset,or they'd rather win a cup and go down. For fuck's sake, we could have dropped and dropped like Slunderland, Man City, Leeds etc, etc

For me, going out of cups was gutting but, if it helped retaining top flight status, it was worth it, even the RS can't beat us on that stat.

Yeah, this weekend for the clocks, Paul, light nights coming soon for us over here.

100% Jeff. Being in the top flight is in our DNA, up there with hating 'them'.

Automatically update — and my alarm is a dog that is religious in her routine. No need for me to think about it!!

Hate them bastards but got to say he was one of the best I've seen alongside the greatest of them all, Big Nev.

I recall Clemence making a save in a derby in the mid-70s. Gary Jones tricked his way to the byline, dinked a lovely little ball right onto Big Bob's head, 0-0 soon to turn into 1-0… only for Clemence to come from nowhere to save a point for them.

To me, it still remains one of the greatest saves I've ever seen. RIP Ray Clemence.

Latchford missed a few good chances against the RS back then, there were loads of 0-0s in the mid seventies if memory serves.

I remember being at Anfield, last minute and Latchford one-on-one v Clemence, he just lobbed into his hands, he was a bit DCL was big Bob, give him time to think and he would fluff it, first touch and chances on instinct he was brilliant.

I think Latchford must have been Lineker's absolute hero.

It was what it was, we were not good enough and other teams where better, simple facts, some decent players, decent teams but ultimately top four and quarter- or semi-finalists at best.

Eighties, … Neville was a massive difference; we lost when he didn't play. Mimms, Arnold etc weren't on his level, and we lost big games because of that.

For me, Martyn, and Howard have been steady in the 2000s. Pickford? Hmmm,… great at times, frustrating at other times. He could have been great but his mentality is questionable.

He wants to be too involved when he's not required. He should just be concentrating on the next time he's needed, but he wants to take free kicks, make 40-yard passes and generally be part of the game.

Jordan, stick to goalkeeping — you're not a footballer.

Although, to be fair to him, he was cover for Nev, so was never really going to get a chance. He played 6 matches in 8 years at Everton.

Here is a link to the match details:-
Link

Scroll down to look at Harry Catterick's record against Shankly. He was a great manager, Harry Catterick. He bought Gordon West, by the way.

I should have mentioned Westy in my earlier post. He could handle himself in the 6-yard box – all elbows and knees (and the occasional fist). He would often throw the ball to a winger standing on the halfway line.

I remember my surprise when he ran out to the Gwladys Street end atd Gooison Park with a baseball cap on to protect him from the sun.

If you didn't see how good he was, you weren't there.

Take Jordan Pickford and times him by 10.

I was never a big fan of Bob —l ovely fella off the field not so much on it.

You also have Pickford spot on @(85) always wanting to make great saves when it is easier to avoid them. He made a great save from a corner v West Ham the last home game, the ball was headed out from the corner but was blasted back in for him to make that save.

It was much easier for him to get off his line and punch the initial corner away from the goal. And don't mention his temperament — he's off his bleedin' cake throughout the game.

I thought Harry Catterick was as every bit as good as Shankly and he not only bought Gordon West but added Ray Wilson, Tony Kay (what a signing!), Johnny Morrissey, Alex Scott and Dennis Stevens who all improved the team and more importantly added steel to that 1963 team. Although the sale of Bobby Collins upset a lot of fans, we still won the league despite that not long after.

I hope you are fit and well, Laurie, and I know the recent upturn in results will have stopped the worry of relegation and improved your mental health at least — best wishes, Laurie.

I agree with your comparison between Catterick and Shankly. That era was the most competitive in English football, yet only 4 names are given any recognition. Its a disgrace that Harry and a few others are omitted from the list.

When he signed West as a teenager, many questioned the move, especially when he was replaced by another teenager. We were soon proved wrong.

I always enjoyed the "Gordon, Gordon" chant that greeted West every game – we even gave Gordon Banks a rendition after the World Cup. I have often thought it could be revived to welcome 'Jordon' Pickford in the same way.

What’s even more surprising is that I am looking forward to the derby.

Just like Southall earlier in the thread not many...outside of here...'rate' Harry.

Their loss.

Derek, Harry Catterick was my favourite Everton manager, he did a great job and if he had delegated a lot of his work he would have lasted much longer, his health definitely suffered because of the hours he put in managing the club.

On Harry Catterick, I can only go off stories and what I've read. It seems he was very authoritarian and wanted to control everything.

You could say that about Moyes first time around, but he seems to be more relaxed now. Age and experience I guess.

I think Catterick was his own man, never courted the media, while Shankly was an egotistical extrovert who embraced them.

Bill Nicholson at Spurs was more like Catterick – just got on with his job and was a fine manager.

Sadly, he started as he meant to go on… his first game in charge of Spurs was the 10-4 hammering of Everton! I think Johnny Carey was in charge of Everton at that game, possibly Ian Buchan… No Mr Carey.

Both very good posts. I often wonder how he would have fared without the brains of Paisley behind him. He convinced the RS fans they were something special, to boost his own ego.

Unfortunately it has been passed down and escalated from each generation since.

To me he's an all-time great.