Kevin Thelwell set to leave Everton this summer

I think he did a bloody good job under the circumstances. Not much was wasted on transfers he brought in. Shame he has to go but we trust the process i guess, especially now Moyes is monitoring what's going on behind the scenes.

I think TFG were always going to bring in a replacement for Thelwell as they appoint their new executive leadership team. It is the right thing to do, as only exceptional individuals should remain after an acquisition.

Thelwell has done a decent job, but we should be looking for top talent to move this club forward.

I will never understand why Moshiri didn’t clean house at all levels of the club after he bought Everton. A £600 million error.

Moyes made Thelwell's signings look pretty decent.

I think he would have been worth keeping on in more of a team based recruitment structure, which the manager should have input into and final say.
He has done a good job in meeting PSR rules by offloading and a fair stab at recruitment, all in very difficult circumstances with the team struggling for 3 years.
I think the experience he has gained over those years is probably unique and well worth keeping.

If DoF are so good at spotting talent why aren't they managers themselves? I don't think Thelwell has done any worse than Walsh or Brandts did. In some ways he did better as Brandt's and Walsh had money to spend. Whereas Thelwell has to get players in on a shoestring budget. I seriously doubt that there is some DoF out there that is better than any other.

Thanks for doing what you were employed to do. If you do go good look. UTFT.

I think the role of DoF at a club like Brighton would have entailed all or some of:

- installing / maintaining data analytics technology

- putting in place and maintaining global scouting networks

- managing the academy from u6s to u21s

- academy recruitment / youth player trading ages 14 to 16

- sister club / affiliate club networks

- loan development arrangements for youth players and overseas talent

- managing relationships with agents / selling clubs and delivering player sales and purchases

First team recruitment in each transfer window is the most visible but not necessarily most important part of this.

Our best signing in recent years is Branthwaite - a 16 year old who played a few games for 4th tier Carlisle. He has been developed at PSV and then introduced into the First Team.

It's a different role to the football club manager - but designed ultimately to feed whoever that manager is with quality players for the first team.

Thelwell did well to keep us solvent and in the Premier League against a backdrop of sustained and extreme cost cutting. Hopefully his successor has a better set of circumstances to work in.

I agree with Daniel @1. The signings are looking much better now Dyche, Woan and Stone have gone. I also would have liked him to stay a bit longer.

Moyes looked pretty comfortable chatting with David Weir at Brighton away.

Let’s be honest, if you wanted to recruit one o the top DoFs in football then Kevin Thelwell would not make the short-list.

If he's going, he gave us Ndiaye and Alcaraz for starters. Jake O'Brien and brought back Gana Gueye.

I think he's made a decent fist of it in difficult circumstances.

I'm an advocate of the Director of Football model. It works just about everywhere. But it needs to be employed correctly. And the remit is broader than the first team. They are responsible for the footballing structure of the club from the bottom up.

@Frank, I will have to politely disagree with your manager comment. In the modern game, the modern manager is what should now be a Head Coach of the first team squad.

The traditional British interpretation of Football Manager reminds me of the film and character, Mike Bassett.

Deeply disappointing to me, but understandable. DoF is a key position and it's not surprising that the Friedkins would want their own choice in there.

But in my opinion Thelwell's work has been little short of brilliant, and I think he will have zero difficulty securing new employment very quickly.

Steve #9, you say that with great certainty. Who would be on your short list besides the much-discussed Weir?

I'm not super bothered about loans as they are hard to get right especially in current market and usually entail little risk.

In terms of permanent moves I'd say Thelwell did very well with Ndiaye and Gueye and Tarkowski and Onana. And did pretty well with Mcneill, Garner, Young and seemingly O'Brien.

Jury is still out on Iroegbunam, Alcaraz and Chermitti but all look promising and even Beto is beginning to show his worth.

The only real dud is Maupay and even he we have hardly lost any money on thanks to the loan fees.

To only have one real dud (and that one inexpensive) is actually a very impressive record for a DOF over 3 years. He's also got us good fees for the likes of Richarlison, Iwobi and Godfrey. Most importantly he's helped keep us up with the lowest net spend in the league over the last 3 years.

I think Thelwell can leave with his head held high and he certainly has my gratitude.

He was not perfect, but having had to sell Richarlison, Gordon, and Iwobi, and just after Digne was sold, and dealing with the complete pile of diarrhea that was the ownership era of Moshiri — meaning entirely limited funds and a bare-bones squad that was not so attractive to top managers — I commend him for his efforts.

We are in the Premier League, with a solid core of Pickford, Alcaraz, Ndiaye, Branthwaite, McNeil, and O’Brien to build from. It would’ve been interesting to see what he would’ve done this summer, and in some ways it scares me to bring in someone new with so much squad building to be done this summer, but for saving us from doom alone, TFG deserves our support in whatever they do for now. One has to believe they have a solid plan in place if they’re making this decision now.

Good luck, Kevin, wherever you may end up.

I bet Brighton have signed a few duds over the last few years too, it’s just we’ve never heard of them, only the big money sales like Caicedo, Mcallister, Cucurrella etc

I'd endorse the view that he has performed well under very difficult circumstances. One of the few to emerge from the years of Moshiri madness with any degree of credit.

Do Roma have a Director of Football or is it too simplistic to expect TFG to impose similar structures at both clubs?

Sam yes when you look down the list he's done an excellent job. In contrast to the utter shit show which went before.

Mike G.

Michael Zorc, Michael Edwards, Christoph Freund, David Weir, Phil Giles to name but a few.

I think Thelwell did good job in tough circumstances, but you are a new owner looking to reshape the club there would not be sufficient evidence that his retention would be a game changer.

Yeah, sorry in many ways to see him go, like a few have said he did bring some good signings in. Felt he should have said to Dyche, look I've brought players in, I think you should play them (O'Brien especially).

Wonder who the Friedkins have in mind and let's hope it pays off ? Wish Thelwell all the very best in his future !

Personally I think this is a shame, he has done a good job under difficult circumstances. I wish him well and I hope he gets the credit he deserves.

I would be pleased with Weir or Ashworth, the latter particularly could be interesting as he may still be based near Manchester? Seems to me like an obvious move if so.

It's likely to be an attractive job for someone that's for sure, a decent budget, plans for growth, new stadium and new felt swagger about the place.

The new American owners have approached Elon aaarrgh!

Agree with the overall sentiments on the thread. Sad to see him go as he has done a decent job in difficult circumstances.

David, I think Musk is looking for investors for his new Swasti-car model.

Thelwell has done a reasonable job in transfers, but his reported 32 new posts was always going to be a problem. TFG have identified this and are looking to restructure. They were probably not comfortable after discussing the situation with Thelwell.

I am not sure Thelwell did bring us O'Brien, I think that was more down to Textor, who thought he had the ownership of Everton done and dusted, selling him to Everton.

I would trust Moyes to get the players he wants and I would look to going back to the scouting system and bin off the DoF, just my opinion.

I have a feeling they may go with a CEO (Kinnear) who is also responsible for the football side working directly with Moyes.

I am sure Moyes has pointed to the success he had with he who is no longer with us.

DOFs can all be called successful or unsuccessful because I don't know one who has got it 100%, even Brands had his successes.

Look at Dan Ashworth rated as one of the best, goes to united cost them a fortune and has bought a number of duds on big contracts.

Kevin Thelwell has done reasonably well especially considering what he had to deal with and I wouldn't be disappointed if we kept him on for a year or two..

There is always Patrici if he is not in jail.

I am sorry to see him go for the following reasons:

1. He was working in a dysfunctional organisation.
2. Had to finance any purchases by selling players which were in demand by other clubs.
3. Had to find value players who were not in demand at other clubs at bargain basement prices.

I think he did his job well, it was not his fault that he was working with a manager who didn't see the players potential. Along come Moyes and all of a sudden he is getting a turn out of these players.

Let's be careful for what we wish for. Remember the enthusiasm when we captured Walshe after Leicester won the league and we though he would resurrect similar gems. What resulted was the start of our sad decline
I too want us to get back to competing for league titles but it must be built on solid foundations. Quick fixes get broken easily. Let's have some patience.

Yes I expect us to be competing at the top half of the table next year but it depends on whose contract we renew, who we bring in but most importantly how well they integrated into the team. Individuals may be great but unless they integrate into a teams work ethic and game plans they are only individuals.

As I say regularly: "There is no I in TEAM." Look at United for example.

Tough to judge anyone in a completely dysfunctional club. Well, besides the leader who was responsible but he's gone now.

We can talk about signings but Thelwell wasn't just the chief scout. He was directing football operations.

He/they appointed Dyche. He/they did so from a shortlist of Dyche and Bielsa. Those two names in the same sentence show you that there was no joined up thinking in place. No plan.

Can't help but feel that Moyes looms large in the next chapter. Whether that's a more traditional manager role, or an opportunity to head upstairs when the time is right and be part of choosing the team management succession plan.

"Even Brands had his successes"

Really???

He bought some right lemons. Two striker's £50 million plus, to replace DLC who couldn't hit a barn door with a banjo from ten inches. Both the replacements not good enough to replace the not good enough striker they were bought to replace! Initially, McNeil, bought to provide chances for the striker, with Burnley that last season, no assists, no goals. Nil Noplay, bought to score the goals when DLC was injured, how many? one was it? Completely did not fit the big striker mold we play with, no part of him fitted the mold at all. 5 7, not fast, no hold up play, not a goal scorer, no skill set. Even Onana, no one to this day knows what exactly he was bought to do. He was like a basketball player drafted into a football team. Thelwell had plenty of money to spend and wasted near all if it. Rose tinted again from his supporters, it was his job to find the players to keep us up and he damned near sent us down.

Jay#25

I think your feeling is closer to the truth.It would make sense to restructure Everton that way. Though Thewell did do well on Transfers, the structure under his control did become bowled.He was allowed under Barret Baxendale to do this and he continued under the next Chief Executive. The simplest thing to do is to do away with the DOF role in its present form and re establish Chief Executive control over the structure. A Head Scout could then work with Moyes.

Didn’t I read somewhere that Dave Moyes does not like the DOF role/model?

Thelwell might not be replaced and we might go back to the old scouts and Dave heading off to lower league games on Tuesdays?

It’s time for Thelwell to go. Paul Kossoff (29) has just posted some of the biggest load of uninformed and twisting shite that I have ever read on here. On the other hand, however, it a shade cringeworthy reading the adulation from Mr. Gaynes and others. That said, I genuinely learned a lot from Robert’s (7) brilliant post that really made me think for the first time perhaps of the more expansive role of a DOF. Much of what he does we do not see. Ergo, it’s unfair to judge Thelwell on incoming and outgoing alone.

Neil (26) is spot on. Hopes were high when Walsh joined but he turned out to be one of Moshiri’s earliest big disappointing mistakes. I don’t know if Walsh is still “special advisor” at highly mediocre Charlotte FC in the highly mediocre MSL, but if feels good that he is now a memory.

Nobody could do a good job with one hand tied behind their back.

Paul@29, not sure about some of these claims.

Who are the two strikers he bought that cost £50M? I presume you mean Beto who cost about £25M (inflated fee due to zero payment up front) and is beginning to look worth that or more in his first run of starts and Chermiti who cost about £10M and is youth player for the future.

McNeill has done well and had some of the best creative figures in the league before he was injured. Doesn't really matter how he did at Burnley does it?

Onana made the club about £20M in profit! Not sure how that can be deemed anything other than a success.

Maupay could aptly be described as a lemon but cost only £8M, most of which we've recouped on loan fees.

He's wasted almost no money as nearly all the players he bought have probably increased in value which is the opposite of what happened under Brands. McNeil, Garner, Ndiaye, O'Brien and Tarkowski would all be worth more than we paid for them now.

Steve Walsh didn't fill me with much confidence, just because he was related to an arl Everton player, who I knew was shite, even though I was only about seven years of age when he played a few games for Everton!

Brands talked an absolute cracker, but was an unmitigated disaster imo, although he must have realised he was in such a dysfunctional club, that instead of trying to win, he decided to join them instead.

Thelwell has presided over the lowest net spend, some of our better players being sold, all against the backdrop of PSR, and has just got on with his job. So, for this reason alone, he's the only DoF who deserves any respect.

Like most on here I think Thelwell is hard done by.

He has done well considering the problems he has had to face. He may want to leave for all we know.

Moyes may want his own man, I guess that may be the likelist.

I also think Thelwell has done a decent job. However, it looks like David Moyes is here for the long run and if that is the case he will want to have the major say in the recruitment process.

I suspect he has been paid a very decent wage for doing a decent job.

He also brings in Garner, Mangala and Iroegbunam too. All decent signing.

Well said, Tony.

You could say it was like “ bringing a knife to a gunfight”

Ouch, Neil

Sam #12 and #33, agreed.

Steve #17, the same Christoph Freund who is sporting director at Bayern? You'll excuse my skepticism as to his interest in Everton.

At the opposite end of the scale, Zorc retired three years ago. He's now in football only as a Board member.

I'll be interested to see what happens.

DK@18, Yes I too wonder whether it was the fact that he was not forceful enough with the previous Manager - that he should have pressed for his signings to be played and not have allowed Dyche to keep playing his favourites when he, Thelwell, had provided him with some decent alternatives.
Other than that I cannot really fault his overall performance in the role of DoF.

I have mixed feelings about Thelwell. I agree he's done a decent job in very difficult circumstances. A mixed bag of acquisitions and loans, but which DOF hasn't. I'm not convinced our playing infrastructure has developed under his tenure, scouting system, Academy etc.

I said at the end of the January transfer window that window will have demonstrated to new owners and new manager how successfully our DOF could execute a plan. Those closest to it will know best. I wish him well.

Neil # 26 "There is no I in TEAM"

Depends on how hard you look

There it is!!

Brendan #15, yes Roma do have a DoF, or at least someone who does that role. Don't know though if that structure was in place when they bought Roma, or TFG put it in place? I suspect the former.

Given Moyes' comments about 'whoever brings in the players should be the one sacked if they don't perform' I wouldn't be surprised if he negotiated player signing control with TFG when he took the job as manager.

He then has full control and accountability.

@Colin at 28

Brands was frustrating with this knack of buying players made of glass: Mina and Gbamin for example.

But I'm not sure how many of the signings during his tenure were his. James was surely Carlo (?) Doucoure seemed to be a recommendation from Silva.

He then also brought in that job lot from Barcelona: Mina, Digne, Gomes while the Bernard signing was random.

Then there was the non-event that was Moise Kean. Who is now doing well in Italy.

We've got through some very weird signings who, on paper, should have been successful with us like Walcott, Dele Alli...we are bloody lucky we off loaded Richarlison, Gordon and Onana for the amounts we did!

Laurie@ 36

I think Moyes should be fine under a better organised board. When afforded a decent budget and time, he did well for us. The summer of 2007 for instance, he was given the money early and brought in Jags, Leighton, Pienaar and the Yak.

It was only in summers like 2009 when we sold Lescott very late that he was forced to buy Lucas Neill, Distin and Bilyaletdinov that it looked chaotic and I suspect our former chairman was to blame for that.

Anyone think he's done an amazing job? Anyone think he's done a terrible job? Thought not.

In between, new owners pick their own man, good luck to him I thought he did better than our previous 2 DOF but Friedkin entitled to pick their own man, good luck Kev, many less useful have earned more and lasted longer at this club,

Mike @ 45, you asked for a short-list and got one.

Don’t go full Donald because you don’t like the answer.

Andrew # 36 - I would have no problem if Moyes gets to decide who is brought in. There were a few duds along the way but by and large he recruited some terrific players.

Interesting thread here as Paul Ferry points out it's difficult to know what Thelwell did and wanted versus owners and managers. I don't bare the guy any ill will but I haven't seen much evidence to suggest he was behind our good moves versus our bad. Therefore if the new owners and Moyes think we can do better so be it.

One thing I think strange though is people who praise Moyes and Friedkin yet second guess this apparent move. You can't back everyone if there's conflict you have to pick sides. My view Thelwell unknown but if we trust Moyes and Friedkin and they don't want him then by default he's out

Steve #55, Mike was just fact checking you, you're the one that's gone all Donald about it.

Sure Eric.

Fortunately I am not interested in what you have to say.

I am not sure how Mike was “fact-checking” me. He asked me a short-list of DoFs that I would like to see at Everton and he got one.

If he didn’t want a response he shouldn’t have asked for one.

Steve #55, no reason to get all Musk with me. I'm just pointing out to the folks that your "short list" (excluding the obvious Weir) consists of the chief executive of the RS (yeah, sure, that's gonna happen!), the DoF at Bayern, a semi-retired director at Dortmund, and Brentford's DoF.

I assume your equally realistic "short list" for strikers we should sign this summer consists of Salah, Kane, Guirassy and Mbuemo.

Haha nice one Donald, you asked me and I answered you.

If you don’t like the answer then tough.

An answer as shallow and pointless as Elon. Good luck to ya.

And what are talking about in relation to strikers.

What has that got to do with a discussion on DoFs I would like to attract to Everton?

I haven’t mentioned strikers at all.

Great last sentence Kieran - 58 - in a nutshell.

Careful Paul F, the Mike won’t like that answer.

50-50 on Thelwell. He got us some good ‘uns like Tarkowski, Garner and Ndiaye.

He also got rid of stiffs like Holgate, Iwobi, Godfrey amongst others.

But I’ll always remember him for the duds like, Vinagre, El Ghazi, Cody and, last but not least, Maupay.

Hopefully he'll become more fondly remembered over time for:

- giving us Premier League quality players despite us operating as though we'd been relegated in 2021

- stripping away the deadwood until only Patterson is now on that list (and he may yet make it)

- removing all non contributing high earners like Gomes, Alli etc

- bringing in the likes of Graham, Clarke, Loney and others / recruiting more heavily at u15 to u17 level

- putting in place an extensive Scandinavia network (which had been disbanded)

- reconnecting us to the South American Market for the first time in years with the (promising) signing of Alcaraz

People like Dan Ashworth have possibly struggled away from Brighton because Brighton had built first class infrastructure to support him in his role. One man wasn't responsible for all the good things happening there - the investment the club had made was responsible.

Sensible outlook, Robert.

A lot of what a DoF does, is to lay foundations, that we won't see the benefits of for a few seasons.

That's one of the factors that contributed to the downfall, notwithstanding interference from the top.

It's a bit like the new owners. They've barely been in control (officially) for two months. Unwinding what went before will take time, but on and off the pitch, we are heading in the right direction. It will just not happen overnight.

I think this is a short sighted decision by TFG, with so many players out of contract and the first team squad full of loanees this summer is going to be massive for us.

The last thing we need is a new DoF who feels like he has to make an impression. We need new contracts on the table, and to secure our better players. Any delays in appointing the new DoF puts in danger players walking away on free transfers.

Agreed Rob 74, I think Thelwell with all his current knowledge is the man to steer us through this summer, lots of comings and goings about to happen, a new DoF will want to splash the cash available whilst Thelwell and Moyse (presuming he wants to))will know what is required to keep, replace, and compliment the players remaining and find the suitable players to ensure that happens, we do not need another scattergun job.

I can't make my mind up if this is bad timing as there are so many players out of contract this season who need negotiating with for them possibly to stay or if it just gives the replacement time to get the manager's feelings on the matter. Are we all of the opinion that there will be somebody appointed to at least negotiate new contracts?

It stated in one feature that the parting was amicable so maybe Thelwell has another job lined up, he won’t be out of work long that’s for sure.
I’d have kept Kevin Thelwell on I thought he did a much better than average job in the time he was here especially in the period there was nobody in charge of the football matters at the club.

Good bad or indifferent I will remember that the new owners were prepared to keep Dyche on until he threw his hand in, maybe he would have kept us up like they thought he could, maybe not, doubt if many on here, now, think that way.

I think we may move in a slightly different direction now Moyes is in charge, as he has said if his job is on the line then he wants to say who we sign and who we don't.

For me that's exactly how it should be, some say its too much for a manager, but I would say its a lot easier for a manager know than when Moyes was here first time around.

A manager can watch many games from his armchair rather than driving thousands of miles a week to watch players. Let's face it, Walsh, Brands and Thelwell couldn't be described as roaring successes. They are just glorified scouts but given a new title and more money than they are worth.

Brian (79) Do you think TFG will allow Moyes, or anyone, to be completely in charge of all transfer dealings?

I think so Brian, as that is his style.

I don't agree with that's how it should be. The game has become too big now for the manager to be dealing with everything. He should be responsible for the first team and results.

It's no surprise that just about every Premier League club, if not all, has a Director of Football / Sporting Director and it's worked well on the continent for some time.

Glorified scout? If done properly, the DoF oversees football structure throughout the club, including managing the scouting network.

I just think the traditional British manager concept is dated.

A bit like Moyes Mk 1, it's a shame we won't get to see what he could have done with some money to spend.

Maybe TFG regard him as 'King of the Bargain Basement'. Maybe they have, what they regard as, a safe pair of hands lined up, for shopping in Waitrose not Aldi. Maybe they are looking for great young talent to improve and sell at a profit and that isn't his forte.

Either way, one of the few positives in nearly 2 decades of negatives.

Dave 80
I think TFG will give Moyes a greater say in football matters which includes buying and selling players.

Danny 81
You and I disagree on DOFs, how can they possibly be given the responsibility of the football structure of the club, when most have never played the game. You say its worked at other clubs, I tend to think that mainly foreign owners have introduced this system from the continent. Just like over the last couple of seasons we see many teams start the game by passing back to the goalkeeper who hoofs hit 40yards, yet for the rest of the match they want their keepers to pass it around their own box, how does that make any sense.

Having read through the posts to date I think it would be good if Thelwell and Moyes could work together.

Moyes tells Thelwell what he wants with maybe one player as an example > Thelwell provides a short list of candidates > Moyes runs his eye over them and says get an interview set up with “him” > Moyes gives the nod to Thelwell to do the wheeling and dealing > welcome to Everton Dan Neil.

Agree with that John, he was mostly more effective shopping around rather than heading to Harrods.

I thought he missed an opportunity at Manchester United. His only activity seemed to be to want a couple of Everton players. Almost in with the old, ignore the new. I don't know, maybe he was constrained by the club, but either way, it didn't work out for him as did quite a few jobs after that.

I still cringe at his interview when he tried a bit of Espanyol. I think he got to counting to 3 before sacking it! Up there with the footage of Tony Adams' coaching session and Steve McLaren's Dutch accent interview.

We do on this Brian, but agree on a lot of other things.

It has worked on the continent. My guess is that, almost culturally, we're collectively suspicious of it and not ready for it just yet.

I don't mind playing from the back and retaining possession. "Keep the ball" as I always used to preach. But only when it's the right situation to do it. Sometimes, it just has to go.

Danny, don’t forget Joey Barton’s attempt at French when he was at Marseille I think it was.

I think Thelwell is the one good thing we have had since the beginning of the Moshiri era where we have had a collection of managers and DOF's who really did not give a fuck about the club and only interested in self-serving success.

Thelwell has been desperate to try and build Everton for the long term even though this is such a difficult task when having to operate on a net negative budget and clearing out some of our most unproductive high wage earners as well as our most valuable assets. He also had to make short term decisions to ensure survival which would have hampered how he really would have wanted to operate.

I feel sorry for Kevin and I'm furious at this decision. DOF's can be unfairly judged because they have to pander to managers wants (Harrison, Young etc) and they are dependent on how the coach will use the assets provided (OBrien Beto etc). Steve Brown shared an interesting list of names whom he couldn't get deals over the line for but show his eye for a player.

This decision by TFG comes as no surprise to me having looked closely at their time at Roma and how calamitous these guys are as owners. We will probably get another new shiny DOF like Weir believing that David's success at Brighton was solely down to him. It's almost like deja vu from Walsh at Leicester. Dan Ashworth would similarly be unsurprisingl as he would be labelled as a coup and show the 'ambitions' of TFG.

No doubt that Moyes will get a greater input into transfers but his recent record at West Ham would suggest that he should not have anything other than a final say on the areas and the types of player he needs and a yes or no when given a name.The enormous finances squandered at West Ham makes Brands look like a genius and they have a squad with only 3 or 4 top level players to show for it. Indeed it's not a significant upgrade on ours despite the fact Thelwell has been firefighting and shopping in Oxfam. Even Kudus their shining light apparently was one of Steidten's with Moyes not having much of a say in it.

I think this is a bad day for EFC just when we think we are making a little progress.

I think he's done a fair job considering the cards he
was dealt. Nobody has commented on his working
relationship with Dyche, did he have one ?
With a fair wind and good conditions it looks as though
we are safe.
As has been pointed out many players are out of contract. I'll bet he has a list of players who would have done a job for Everton but were probably out of our price bracket. That hopefully will be changing .
A lot will depend on our new CEO/Chairman /Boss how he wants the club to be run.
The game has changed a lot since DM was here last.
I can't visualise him with a false moustache standing on the terraces at Scunny on a rainy night checking a player out.
We need to expand and increase our scouting system
so we can attract more to the club, the players are out there.
What do the Freeks have in mind ?
He knows the club. DM will probably tell him what he wants.
I think he should be in charge during our transition.
But the like all the other experts on here what do I know ?

Laurie #84, spot on, I think that's exactly how it should work. The manager being responsible for the first team and the DoF the development of the rest of the club. If he brings some gems through for the first XI all well and good, if not they get sold on.

Kieran #58,

I thought that Thelwell would have a problem.straight away once TFG started a 100-day review. Thelwell had the blessing of the then Chief Executive to employ 32 staff at Finch Farm, without being accountable. A Chief Executive who hadn't got a clue about strategic planning or budgets. This was allowed to continue.

But with a new Chief Executive, such wage budgeting would be part of their remit. The Director of Football role would then come under scrutiny and a Head Scout working with the Manager on transfers would allow accountability for the Chief Executive.

Thelwell just had to go for this to happen and it will work with Moyes.

Jerome, you never miss the DoF till Thelwell runs dry? :-)

Derek, I think the role will still exist, but not in the present form. It will be structured differently. The role evolved under Moshiri, as someone in Everton who knew something about football, to compensate for the fact he knew nothing, and tobolster his position in talking to Kenwright & Co to stop his money going South.

The Director of Football was involved in areas that they shouldn't have been and were not equipped for. It is no surprise that they made a Horlicks of it.

Everyone should be thankful for Thelwell getting £50M off Villa for Onana, now that was a great bit of business.

Steve B (67),

Ask the corrector-in-chief Mr Gaynes whether he thinks that DCL has ever scored a "great goal" for us or whether getting £31M off the wage-bill this summer gives us £31M to spend on players?

I think be careful what you wish for.

I just want a solid Everton side that nobody wants to play against.

Kevin Thelwell joined Everton as Director of Football on 24 February 2022. His tenure has coincided with the evaporation of a meaningful transfer budget. PSR rules have dictated a very prudent approach to recruitment and definitely curtailed any ambitious plans he may have had. His experience at Wolves, was probably very similar.

Being forced to operate in these restrictive conditions appears to be finally paying off. In his time he has brought in various players for relatively little money, while moving on more established members of the first team squad for significant profit.

While some of his recruits took time to settle, it could be said that this was through no fault of his own, that various managers had falled to give some players a fair crack. Players like O'Brien, ignored under Dyche, have blossomed – or rather, have shown what they were capable of before coming to Everton.

He has mixed mostly young players (Garner, Onana, Ndiaye, McNeil, O'Brien, Patterson, Lindstrøm, Chermiti, Iroegbunam, Broja, Beto and now Alcaraz) with the experience of Ashley Young, Mangala and Idrissa Gueye. Of this list, those starting under the new manager are beginning to look like quality acquisitions, particularly at the price point. It is clear he can spot a player, but it is also apparent there was limited communication between him and the old manager. Hopefully he will have a better relationship with Moyes.

We have yet to see any real evidence of a coherent and consistent football philosophy from U10s right up to the first team. This may become evident in the next few seasons as players come through and make the step up knowing their position and role in the team.

The situation we now have with circa 14 first team players out of contract in June, is, to an outsider, his fault. However he has been working in a power vacuum and may not have had the authority to tie these players down on extended contracts. It may also be a deliberate decision to get rid of deadwood, knowing there is a limited market for high earners like Keane, Doucoure, Calvert-Lewin.

If we can keep most of these players fit and happy, I believe there is a sound basis for a decent Premier League team. We will not pull up trees, but it's certainly the bones of a team which we can build upon, Deploying this model of young, relatively untested players with a will to succeed, rather than over-paid, under-motivated nearly-men and also-rans, bodes well for the future and may persuade the new owners to put their faith in Kevin Thelwell going forward.

Paul Ferry(#96); I don't think anyone is under the impression that getting 31M off the wage bill gives you 31M to spend but it does give you the opportunity to get the wage bill under the presently reported 90% of annual income and also below the presently allowed 3 year loss of 105M, is it, under PSR, then add any increase in income in moving to BMD albeit I'm not sure of how any of this maybe affected by changed regulations. Then we may find other things such as associated parties sponsorship which now seems allowable and player "sales" which might mean we have some sort of increased transfer budget albeit nowhere near that of some clubs or even the minimum we might need to seriously improve the first team squad.

A world of their own these accounts.

Thelwell did do some great transfer business, but the bloated wages bill he was partly responsible for, probably getting caught up in Gerald Kean's building of 'little empires' had to be addressed.

It won't only be his areas of responsibility that will be addressed by the TFG group. Other less high-profile areas will get the same attention.

Paul #96

It won't, but I think you know that. Alan has made a good shape of showing why, given a lack of information from the Club, which seems to be continuing under TFG. AGMs are still a thing of the past. The only definite information that is released is turnover. Paul the Esk hasn't produced a Financial update, which would be speculative anyway, in months.

Alan, 102, great. post, and a lot will depend I think/fear, on whether or not we can bring in new players on more realistic and lower wages.

Alan, I really hope that Thelwell or whoever or Moyes are looking long and hard at the Championship, South America, any team finishing 5th/12th in Spain, France, Germany etc., and, needless to say, any Asian at Celtic.

Armstrong did well:

We have been waiting to see Harrison Armstrong unleashed on this Derby team following his move from Everton and the teenager certainly showed promise.

In what was undeniably one of the day's positives, the midfielder showed he could play both sides of the game. He rattled into a couple of early challenges, was happy to take the ball in tight spaces, and, when in possession, his first thought was to largely play forward.

A pass to Jerry Yates, who had run off the shoulder in the first half, proved as much, but it just didn't quite marry up to the movement. The intention was there and he certainly was not overawed by facing a team chasing the top six of the Championship.

You could see that he was growing tired, particularly as a touch of cramp set in before he then sliced a pass out behind for a corner to which he immediately held his hand up.

Overall, he can be pleased with his contribution, and you can see why Everton are excited by his potential.

From the Derby Telegraph.

What does the DoF actually do? Does he pick the signings personally? I'm not sure he does that in isolation.

Isn't his role more of a senior management position? Getting the right team around him, strategic planning, improving processes, taking account of competing pressures and demands, change/risk/continuity management, etc?

It's probably more complicated than just finding players.

Thanks to Robert Tressell for the usual insights.

I'm a bit concerned about this development and can't escape my suspicion that it's linked to the appointment of David Moyes. It's also noticeable that it's come to light whilst the squad is away from the UK on warm weather training.

I saw Thelwell interviewed only a week or so ago and had to wonder whether he was auditioning for his own job, seems he was, but he was certainly planning for the summer when he spoke.

He's done a pretty solid job in my opinion, and with all of the work that is forthcoming I'm surprised that this decision has been taken now. As noted elsewhere his understanding of the club and current playing staff would surely have been beneficial in terms of negotiating new contracts and bringing in new faces - in collaboration with the manager.

Having said that, it's entirely up to the owners how they want to construct their Board, but I'd be concerned about putting all of my footballing eggs in one basket with Moyes. You only have to look at the comments section of The Guardian website after any West Ham game to read how unimpressed their fans remain with the signings he brought into the club.

It may be that TFG don't want a DoF on their Board and want to leave ultimate say to the manager and CEO regarding incoming and outgoing footballers - well unless that CEO has a strong knowledge of footballing matters I'd be very averse to that idea. We need strong scouting networks and multiple voices having their say on players, it's a huge risk to leave all this at the behest of one person, no matter how good a football manager they are.

Like everyone else I'm really pleased with the work Moyes has done so far at Everton, but not to the extent that I want him in charge of player recruitment, that model is outdated for good reason, football has moved on, we need to move with it. TFG need to tread very carefully, it's still early days all round for them, and for David Moyes's current tenure.

Moyes can pick a player but make sure someone with a bit of nous is picking the strikers instead.

I think he has done a pretty good job for somebody who had to shop in discount stores instead of at the premium brands. To my understanding the DOF job is to build up data and check out potential fits for the club. This would never be done in isolation but in communications of what the manager needs.
Some on here are looking for marquis DOF’s we did that in the past with both DOF and managers and we now reap the benefit of that wisdom.
Be careful for what we wish.

It has been my opinion that the DoF has a lot more to do than just find players he thinks the Manager/Head Coach might find of use and neither should he be insisting on a style of play.

There should be a whole scouting system for players of all ages and if we have scouts allocated to certain areas or if we just have contacts in those areas. Then there must be associated costs for travel, accommodation and salary or incentives which I suppose must come within a budget and who is to deal with Agents, and in one past case the player's mother. This would all seem rather a lot for a Manager on his own or even with the help of the appointed Finance Manager/Director but then I suppose he does have a Coaching Staff to assist on the training ground and videos of players in whom there is an interest seem easily available.

Perhaps the problem lies in the title and maybe Development Officer may be more appropriate but whoever is CEO has to sort out who has what final say. Perhaps we might refer back to Sir John Moores who had the Manager in for a chat each Monday morning, I think, according to Harry Catterick.

How often are Board meetings held at Everton or are they just in case of emergencies or power struggles or does the CEO just report back to TFG in the States as he deems necessary?

Disappointed to come across the news of Thelwell leaving. Given that he only got to use a penny out of every pound he generated from player sales, he did tremendously well. No DoF is perfect (even the mightily impressive Monchi at Villa had a messy record during his time at Italy), and if Maupay is arguably the only screw-up he oversaw during his tenure, Thelwell certainly can keep his head high leaving the City of Liverpool (some told me that he grew up a Red Shite?).

IMHO, his upcoming departure might be a combination of a few items:

1) Moyes remains uncomfortable working with a DoF (his war with the DoF during his 2nd West Ham stint is well documented), unless the DoF reports to him (which no accomplished DoF would bother to work under that structure). He might have moaned and groaned in front of the Friedkins to get more power and decision-making on players acquisition.

2) Thanks to Sir Jim up M62, a top tier DoF candidate in Dan Ashworth is available for free

3) The Friedkins might be less patient than we would imagine: Thelwell's focus on using the academy to generate first team members and sales income might be too long-term for the Friedkins' liking

Regardless, I am grateful for his work navigating our club through choppy waters (I haven't even touched on the full-scale revamp and modernisation of our academy that he had initiated) and wish him nothing but the very best for his next role.

I am late to jump into this thread, but here goes…

I believe it is a mistake to let Thelwell go at this point. I'm in the camp that thinks that he did a good job under crippling financial constraints – Richarlison, Gordon, Onana, Iwobi, etc were all let go and he had to work mainly in the loan market to patch up the squad – Mangala, Harrison, Broja, Lindstrom, Alcaraz, etc.

He knows the squad well and he can work with Moyes on deciding who to retain and who to let go and who to add.

My gut feeling is that Moyes and Thelwell could gel well, with eventually Moyes moving up to Director of Football role and a younger, more tactically modern manager coming in to work with the 1st team.

It’s very strange to me that Thelwell is being allowed to go with just a thank you, I presume, after doing a good job in very trying circumstances while the previous board which let us down badly were paid millions in bonus’s between them. I think he deserves more than just a thank you, even though I know there were different owners.

Dave, sort of agree with you, Thelwell has been doing his job with his hands tied by costs, so its likely the players he wanted were restrained by cost, in the end he got the best of at a price we could afford.
Not the best environment to showcase his talents but he deserves our thanks for dealing with the crappy hand he was given.
End of contract so no golden handshake or payoff.. just a thank you for trying and all your efforts. When you think of the utter (please insert expletive here) who were paid millions to get rid of..
I tend to think a more prudent wage structure and contract terms for players and management are long overdue.. never mind the latest set of financial requirements..
So thank you Mr Thelwell, good luck with your next role.

Agree with the both the views of Ajay, Christine and Dave.

He did a good job considering the constraints and leadership he was having to operate under.

I'm assuming the owners have their own vision and plans?

Dave@113. Just a thank you. I wish I got paid what Thelwell did. That's thank you enough.

Very true Paul, but he was effectively running the club, alongside Dyche, whilst the phonies in the boardroom, hid behind an outrageous pack of lies, (who makes false allegations against the only thing that is still great about Everton, Mr Divide & Conquer?) stopped attending football games and still walked out with tremendous severance payments.

It will be interesting to see who we bring in as Dof, integrity and an eye for a footballer are the pre requisites.

Paul 116, If we brought a dof in from Barca and paid him top wages or if we brought in the dof from Marine who did the job for nothing who would you be happier with?

When people are dealing with multi million pound deals they generally get paid top wages which is the same in normal industry. Why wouldn't we pay good wages to a dof?

If you do a good job you should get rewarded, Thelwell has done a remarkable job in the circumstances, no other dof in the premier League era has had the same constraints.

The new owners want to make changes at the top level of the club which is what we need, I am not sure we needed change in the DoF area in our current position, I think it is naive at best.

The same comments come up about money on lots of threads.

The money doesn't come from the fans pockets the game has moved on considerably.

Dyche getting a pay off irked some people, without him the club loses over £100M a year and most of the players in the championship! So £5M is just reward isn't it? Moyes isn't working for nothing is he?

Paul (116), I wish I got paid one tenth of what Mr Thelwell gets but that's not the argument I was making just that I thought he deserved better than a simple thank you.

I'll give you your due, Paul, you never sit on the fence but shout loud and clear with your entitled opinion and that's fine with me.

I would have thought most new owners would want their 'own man' in this type of position, irrespective of how previous incumbents have performed?

My personal view is that Thelwell has done a decent job with very little to play with and has been a vast improvement on those that went before him.

Ajay #112, if it's the DoF role to implement a "culture" across the whole of a club that dictates style of play, recruitment from youngsters through to first team and choose the manager succession to fulfill that structure, why do you think any of our fans would accept Moyes to build that culture in his own image?

Surely we'd want a tactically modern DoF to implement a tactically modern culture and recruit tactically modern managers and players? Not dithering, dour, Davey?

I'm not keen on the whole wages debate.

Do the wages in the current game, players and make the average person in the street raise an eyebrow? Probably. Should there be a wage cap to control it? Possibly.

But, it's the market rate. Supply and demand. No different than most walks of life. I earn more than a council worker, for example, but it doesn't mean they don't work any harder than me. It's just the way it is.

I don't like the inflated wages throughout football now, but I also remember stories of the days when a testimonial was necessary for players to set themselves up for life after football and a few ended up running pubs. I was only young, but players weren't particularly well paid, lived in "normal" houses rather than gated mansions and most of the money probably went upstairs.

They deserved better as the demand for consuming football spiralled and they deserved a fair cut. Now, then are set for life, but the balance probably swung too far in the players' favour in my view. There could have been a balance.

Danny(#122); I've not seen all the details of the possible new laws that may replace PSR but it is rumoured that it may be a wage cap of about 70% of income which might just mean a first in best dressed system at a lot of clubs and those clubs with the highest income may be the most attractive to players and Agents.

It may be better to wait until the whole story is made clear and carried by the majority of clubs which will probably be just before the Man City judgement is handed down.