“I don’t have the players which I need and what I want”

So, the optimist in me says that things could be okay as long as we get the squad numbers in - which given that Everton are in a better position than this time last year - might be more than possible - though maybe not quite to the standard that Moyes wants. I think more loan signings will be the key and a few surprises, albeit a little more into the preseason/season than ideal.

Then again, who knows!?!?!?!? But what is certain - more quality is needed for the squad and competition ASAP!

It’s like saying “I don’t have players of the calibre of Liverpool’s or City’s so that’s why we’re not winning “. Suck it up and do what you did last season.

It's amazing how positivity can change thing, Moyes is doing what Moyes does best and lowering expectations so he looks like a hero.

Never go back ;)

I will probably incur the wrath of others, but I'll maintain what I've said on a similar thread earlier this week.

His language and messaging might be correct and stating what we already know, but what sort of public signal does this send out to prospective signings that he wants and we need? What does it say to the players already at the club?

Speak to the CEO and through him, TFG.

Maybe it's just his choice of words. Other managers have expressed frustrations in the transfer market. He isn't wrong in what he's saying, but this isn't the way to publicly express it.

Ha! Exactly. A bit like the Gareth Southgate quote about Sven when they went in at half time against Brazil in a World Cup Quarter Final.

They needed Churchill and they got Ian Duncan Smith.

Seems like he’s getting the excuses in early for a season of struggle. Everyone else’s fault except his.

What is he doing for his big salary? It sounds as if he is rushing to the bottom regarding motivation. Maybe he should borrow Dyche's database of players, since he seems not to have one himself… or maybe he lacks credibility as far as those players on it are concerned.

Give us solutions, not problems, Davy Boy.

My thoughts 100% entirely, Danny.Moyes has done this at all the clubs bar Preston he has managed with completely negative results.

He would get a shock if TFG turned round and said "Right then, leave, and we will get someone else." What the Chief Executive and the rest of the transfer team think of him is going to be obvious.

This is now high stakes, and there is clearly a big issue. It's not just the big players we need through the door, it's the replacement right-back and the loans. Moyes has said there is nothing in the pipeline.

When I last watched Angus, he was saying 'judge us on 2 September'. That is an unbelievably complacent attitude and shows his lack of understanding, and that he doesn't realise how weak the squad currently is.

What should be a fresh start of a golden era is ebbing away to disappoint. Where are the Freidkins in amongst all this?

The team looks very underprepared and quite simply a very average squad from last season is at this stage much weaker.

I really did expect us to kick on a bit, and to have added some quality by now, as clearly did David Moyes. I don't think he rates his new executive team.

The next few weeks, the final weeks of the transfer business, are going to be very telling.

Besides this, Davey, do your bit on the practice pitch and get the existing squad better prepared! At the moment, none of them can string two passes together.

He is right too, of course. He doesn't have the players yet. That said, almost none of his managerial counterparts do – especially those at the peer group of clubs.

I'd rather he was more upbeat and defiant but it's not his style. He's a good manager and a good fit for where we are now but it's a reminder of how irritating this sort of thing is.

Alcaraz is a tidy player but, in terms of Premier League footy, is he an instant improvement over Doucoure?

The left-back is great news for the future but Myklenko isn't the problem in the back line.

Even for off the bench right now (not in 12 months), is Barry an upgrade on Calvert-Lewin? Not imo.

Pickford,
O'Brien, Tarkowski, Branthwaite, Mykolenko.
Gana, Garner
McNeil, Alkaraz, Ndaiye
Beto

That is our best 11 — so clearly no improvement.

There is tension between David Moyes and the club's new technical director Tim Steidten, reports Guardian Sport.

Imo, you either give Moyes total control… or you don't employ him.

TFG knew what they were getting when they employed Moyes

TFG have done some good things or also some things I'm worried about.

His tone, however, is unfortunate and negative, especially if seen by potential targets.

I don't doubt, however, that come the Leeds game in a few weeks, he'll have the team prepared to go out and compete, whatever the quality we have in the team.

Onwards and upwards!

The flipside to that would be that maybe Moyes has to adapt to the new world order and accept his place?

Like I say, I don't dispute what he's saying, just not the time or place to do it. He's had Angus Kinnear out there with him, so can have those conversations in private.

Also ,Ryan, your point about Moyes and conflict with his masters is one I've thought. He could be heading to be at loggerheads and, with these owners, there would only be one outcome.

He can and should voice his concerns, but do it in the right forum.

You've summed it up perfectly. Managing down expectations. West Ham got fed up of it and Evertonians were fed up with it in 2013.

He imposes his own limitations on the whole football club.

This was impossible to do at Man Utd which is why he was an abject failure.

If, at the last minute on transfer day, the likes of Real Sociedad blink and climb down from their silly money talk. then fine, we'll have two options down the right.

But we need at least one new right winger to start against Leeds.

Barry (2), You are not alone in thinking Doucouré might be harder to replace than some imagined. The evidence of the pre-season so far suggests his work rate has not been replaced. Moreover, we have yet to see any uplift in quality which might compensate for that.

When there is no money, the club seems to get players who are just about good enough, but won't push the team up the table.

Money comes in, but the team isn't competitive in the upper table, so decent players don't want to come unless the wages are silly high.

So there's a choice: overpay for above average players with little to no sell-on value (Doucoure, Sigurdsson, Keane) ,gamble on young players who may come good (Kean, Lookman, Patterson), or settle for bang average players that will keep the team up but won't move it forward, but at least there are players to fill the positions (Harrison, Young, Pembridge….)

It's all a big old mess, several seasons in the making. Fat Sam, Carlo and Rafa blew millions in the above-average and young potential categories. Moyes now faces a hell of a job walking the tightrope.

I imaging the club are going to have to overpay for at least 3 players, then settle for some loans to plug the gaps.

They are not slow in acting on dissent in the ranks.

Their dismal record regarding quality.
Their dismal record regarding loans.
Their dismal record recognising positions that need to be improved and reinforced.

Moyes's dismal record at signing numbers of players. His steadfastness in refusing to budge outside of what he wants which includes passing on talented players for players who only fit his style.

This was a known dilemma and huge problem way before TFG finally signed on.

I am guessing they call this 'Risk Management'. Deliberately understaffing with a skeleton sufficiency enough to survive relegation but without numbers to advance.

I said this was going to happen. But got roasted on here by the knowledgeable gurus. It's clear the likes of Grealish would have Moyes going apeshit, so would never happen.
All the frees and players named by many on here as great fits, are not Moyes fits. He is too insular and inflexible.

Add in TFG a la Roma and never speaking to fans plus not having the relevant personnel in situ who are going to be charged with running the playing side, then it's a shambles.
Moyes knew this.

He should have been way more diplomatic. That things are yet to all be pieced together and that numbers were never going to come in via the first window.

A pathetic academy hasn't added anything other than pouring oil on the fire. I don't know if Armstrong is Premier League quality as I have only seen him in cameos last season in which he reallcouldn'tn't make his mark.

Yes, it's shit. Yes, we are still serving the Blue OXO Laughing Stock. The Red Shite will love this bollocks. But at least we have a caucus of a decent defence (which is how Moyes sets sides up) plus Ndiaye. Let's hope moanie Moyes can think outside his concrete box so we can add some fekkin goals.

Dour Davey, glass ceiling, knife to a gunfight... etc. I was hoping he'd changed but he hasn't; I've watched the 2 games and fear another nail-biter of a season.

I honestly thought our new owners would have vision and enthusiasm for the job but I can't see any of that either.

Fire up the fax machine for the usual last minute, nobody-wanted-to-sign players.

There are plenty of very good players still available who can take the club forward.

We can't fix the squad in one window but we can make it much better – and we can lay the foundations for a very good squad in future.

Tommy # 20,

In fairness to Moyes, there were lots of reasons he failed at Man Utd. He remains a good fit for us for now – and we'll just have to hold our noses each time he downplays expectations. He'll probably be replaced for the 2027-28 season when the squad should be in very encouraging shape.

Yeah, but they copped loads of pushback and abuse when they sacked a Roma legend – their CEO got dumped and De Rossi's replacement Juric was a disaster.

I doubt they'd be stupid enough to sack Moyes because they didn't get players in on time.

They're on their 6th manager in 5 years and Mourinho's stint covered half of that time.

I remain unconvinced that Moyes will see out the next 2 seasons, which I am happy to be proven wrong, as it means we will have achieved something.

Jake, if they do dismiss, I don't think it will be not getting signings. It will be on two factors:

Performances and results. De Rossi got his marching orders after not winning in his first 4 matches in what would have been his first full season.

His recent vocal criticism, which the hierarchy can interpret as not towing the line. Agree or not, that's how things often work.

His attitude is not what a shiny new stadium and shiny new owners would want.

No team should start the season worse off than last season, unless you're Sheffield Wednesday and of course, good old Everton.

The mood of the Moyesiah is permeating the club right now. Yes, he's right about the lack of transfers… but going on about it every time someone sticks a mic to his face is not helping.

Most of the team that started last night should not be in the starting XI that lines up against Leeds. Travers, Patterson, Keane, Armstrong, McNeil and Barry will be subs at best. Of those, Keane and Patterson are not good enough. McNeil needs to up his game asap. The jury is out with regards to Armstrong – squad player or loan out?

Barry will need time to find his feet in the Premier League. Travers is the cup goalkeeper and let's hope he's got his howler out of the way!

For me, those who are currently first choice for the manager are:

Pickford, Mykolenko, Branthwaite, Tarkowski, Gueye, Ndiaye and Beto. My guess is that Alcaraz, Iroegbunam, Garner, Coleman, Aznou and Chermiti are seen as squad players only by the management. So 4 starters need signing. A proper right-back, 2 midfielders and a right-winger.

Douglas Luiz on loan, seems to be the preferred choice for one of the central midfield vacancies, perhaps alongside McAtee for the other.

When it comes to a right-winger, a few are being mentioned, it was ever thus but I reckon it could come down to someone from the Championship. Tom Fellows is seen as a likely signing for me, due to his relatively lowish price.

For right-back, I see a loan or a free transfer coming in; otherwise, it will be O'Brien playing there.

There are 2 interesting frees available: Nelson Semedo – current Portuguese International who can also play right-midfield, and Coufal. My preferred choice would be, in an ideal world, Djed Spence from Spurs.

So come on, Everton, it's time to get moving and get the players in we desperately need.

Does Moyes realise we've got new owners and he doesn't have to cover for Teary Arse anymore?

What concerns me is, throughout his managerial career, he appears to have been a bit of a control freak, and only too ready go on major sulks, adopting an adversarial attitude towards those involved when not getting his own way? He only ever seems happy when reporting directly to what he sees as the main man.

He repeatedly seems to find it uncomfortable and beneath him reporting to what he believes to be someone less qualified than himself, such as a Technical Director or Director of Football. So a red flag went up for me immediately we dispensed with the services of Kevin Thelwell, who in my opinion had been doing a decent job, because it appeared to me we were pandering to David Moyes.

However, the so-called “flat” structure that's been put in place has effectively installed a few more levels between Moyes and what he sees as the ultimate decision maker, particularly with the cosy two-man Leeds team that's been brought in.

So what worries me now, with his current attitude and latest comments, is history repeating itself with a major sulk developing and publicly distancing himself from the “failed” hierarchy, that should, but doesn't include him?

But it's our club, our team… us that's going to suffer while he plays out his political games, unless TFG nip it in the bud.

That would seem harsh.

Because that's worked out so well over the past 12 years...

Dear, oh dear.

He earned a big deal off Man Utd by running down his contract at Everton and they didn't have to pay compensation to our club which helped to get him that huge financial deal. And they had to pay him when they gave him his P45 ad his comics.

He may be telling the truth but who are his audience? He doesn't need to tell us what we already know. Preaching to the converted.

If it's the board and owners, they should already be having those conversations in private.

“until we add to the squad, we are always going to struggle, no matter who we are up against.”

“We're not ready to perform well enough in this tournament. We're not ready to start the Premier League season,”

“but this boy is a young boy who is not quite ready yet”

Will somebody please send Moyes a copy of ‘Motivational Speeches for Dummies'. He appears to have lost his!

We're in the midst of the biggest rebuild of an Everton squad in decades. He's not going to win us many trophies, but he'll have us competing for European spots. He knows the club and he's the right fit for where we are at this moment. Blaming him for not getting players in quickly enough is ludicrous — it's not his responsibility.

I suspect he'll get to the point where he'll realise he can't take us further and will do the right thing and hand over the reins to someone more dynamic. But, Christ, give him at least a season to get a functioning team together.

I'm not blaming him BTW. Not sure there that blame can be attributed clearly? It's quite complicated. Mostly it's trying to make up for years and years of mismanagement at all levels.

I'm very worried about the season. Manager unhappy, players off the pace, weak squad, new ground... hope I'm wrong.

That is the job of a senior leader.

I think he will keep doing it until he sees results in strengthening the first team. Unless there are injuries, Barry, Aznou and Travers will made few premier league starts next season. They were signed for future potential or cover.

Moyes knows he has 1-2 seasons at best to succeed and he has banked some goodwill with the fans.

Go big or go home, Davie.

💰The Peacocks informed the player that they want to trigger his release clause of £24.5M

🔐 Clause available until 15/08

If I was Everton I would go in for him.
I like him as a player and 24.5m within our range

Any thoughts?

Smart lad.

Bye soon. Not us anymore just him...and smart agent.

Hate to say this.

We are linked too. Who knows what is going on.

Ryan (44) “ Martin is blaming him Danny”
Well you are cancelling Martin out with your support of Moyes Ryan.

Those that aren't having Moyes, use it against him. If he'd dressed it up another way, he would have been called deluded. He's going into press conferences and giving a straight answer - perhaps he's better not doing them at all. Without winning football there is always a stick to beat him with.

If he hadn't said anything on transfers, you'd still be getting conspiracy nonsense of tfg not putting money in, short arms and deep pockets, ripping fans, not active enough, bring back super kev etc etc.

Moyes will be here from the start of the season. Moyes will bring players in. Where we finish will depend on the quality that he can bring. And we all know it needs a significant upgrade in quality. It looks like no new players will be against United, so the best we can hope for is Roma.

Disappointing, but that's where it is.

I think this is an opportunity for us.

Good age
Good fee
Upgrades all our attacking positions

There's plenty of players that we could get that would improve us to varying degrees.

The palace manager said more or less the same as Moyes

Yet their fans don’t go moaning like some of our fans

I think Moyes brought some of this on himself. After last seasons strongish finish he started bigging up our chances of European football when a decent mid table finish and maybe a cup run would have been enough for our first season in the new stadium. We cannot build a side to challenge for Europe with a domestic transfer budget designed to keep us out of debt and in the PL.

There is still more than two weeks until we kick off against Leeds. Lets see who we manage to get through the door by then before making any predictions how the season will go. Maybe we have become too used to being pessimistic about our chances and have become to quick to see them in the worst light just because we lost a couple of pre-season friendlies.

To be honest I'm not interested about the results in the USA it was likely we were going to be beaten in these games.

We will do ok this season, I don't think any glory is expected, not from me anyway.

Last season I think Moyes done a remarkable job, I don't think anyone could have done better. After Dyche who done a commendable job himself in trying circumstances began to get found out tactically once the turmoil had died down and he had a better standard of players.

Seamus during this trip to Chicago gave an insight into the players minds during the boat trip when he described Moyes as a "breath of fresh air" and that great to have him back "as he really gets Everton". The players were really sick of Dyche was the inference I took.

This summer was likely to be tough with so many players out of contract and going back to their parent clubs. Despite often critical views of players Doucoure, Mangala, Calvert Lewin, Lindstrom and Broja would have increased standards and competition among the group

Many have suggested Moyes is just telling it like he is but I think this is just a power play from the manager which I feel is ill advised. He knows he has done well and seems to want things yesterday.

We all know we need players, we would have liked to have a bit more business done but at this stage we were realistically only likely to have one or two more in at best.

The problem I have is

1- Moyes is sounding like Dyche, defeatist yet for the majority of Dyche's reign he had reason to be and got worn down in the end. Moyes has very little to in the grand scheme of things and if rumour has it part of the reason we aren't getting things done quickly was the replacement of Thelwell which Moyes was alleged to have pushed for.

2-Moyes has openly criticised the players he is putting out. Chermiti I thought has looked bright yet he is played out of position and yet the 2 other strikers have had a fair crack. Not a wonder Patterson, Garner and McNeill look woeful if they are hearing those comments about no quality.

3-Does Moyes not realize he is digging his own grave. Players have no problem going to fucking Bournemouth and what serious footballer would go there. Well plenty have and everyone says Ireola was the top reason. You know you are going to improve then hopefully get a big move.

4- For Moyes to come out with such drivel after the West Ham game was embarrassing. No problem we lost, no problem that they had better options in the 2nd half but here is the problem.- in the first half it looked like we had set up to play Barcelona, we had more first teamers than them, they were a collection of kids and 2nd teamers with Kilman and Pacqueta you would imagine in their first eleven. We had four or five. This preseason we look like we did in the last days of Dyche, if I was watching that as a player I wouldn't want to join. We couldn't put two passes together and we had a fair bit of quality and experience on the pitch

I assume Mcneil Garner, Alcaraz were largely invisible. Keane & Patterson not at the level, Armstrong, Chermiti and Iroegbunam needing a loan. Travers showing why hes a number 2 and not a number 1?

Remind me why we didnt win again and looked poor?

Here, he has challenged new owners, unsettled the fans and likely increased fees or lowered probabilities of deals getting done.

And what was gained? [crosses arms, taps foot] Pfffft!

Lots of the other departures made no difference. DCL hardly played in 3 years, Mangala was injured and never played a game under Moyes. We lost two unused back up goalies, Holgate who was out on loan, Maupay who was out on loan, the Chelsea striker basically never played, that just leaves us with Harrison and Lindstrom who Moyes publicly called out for lack of productivity and then dropped Lindstrom from the team anyway.

Obviously, we need more players but if we start with:

Pickford,
O'Brien, Tarks, Keane (assuming Jarrod unfit), Myko
Gueye, McNeil, Alcaraz, Tim, Ndyie
Beto

That's no worse than what Moyes worked with last season. So why would we go from getting 31 points in 19 games to suddenly assuming we should lose every game as seems to be the prevailing opinion? Obviously, we need reinforcements for injuries and the ACN but why is it if we can't suddenly get much better players that those we have are all of a sudden Accrington Stanley level?

I posted this on the other thread but if you look at Moyes words and how they are impactful, this was Phil McNulty after Moyes' Sunderland were relegated:

"Asked about supporters fearing a season-long struggle, he said: "Well, they would probably be right."

Realism is one thing - negativity and defeatism is another. This was a message that was badly received by Sunderland's fans and set the tone for a season that turned into a long, slow, painful, joyless march into the Championship.

It was also a message delivered with 10 days of the August transfer window remaining, hardly enticing words to potential new signings.

Looks increasingly like maybe we should have given Thelwell one more summer (who incidentally has brought in 8 new players at Rangers already) but let’s see how the squad looks by the end of the window, to be fair I do like the business we have done so far.

With the clear out who exactly has gone that leaves us weaker other than Duke? And he was in and out of the team with Alcaraz.

The rest were injured, out on loan or worse than those who remain (eg. Lindstrom/Harrison worse than NDyiae and McNeil)

While I was happy to see the back of Harrison and DCL, their presence may have been keeping McNeil and Beto on their toes.

We've lost a lot of energy and pressing. We statistically lost more games when he didn't play.

I suppose he could try to put it right by telling the players at halftime which 6 or 7 of them will be replaced when the entire 9, or is it 10, have arrived; at least that way, it will be face-to-face.

To say we have realistically only lost Doucoure is a nonsense.

We lost Young, Harrison, Doucoure, Calvert-Lewin, Lindstrom, Broja, Mangala — all of whom played some part in our season and in total 17 players gone some of whom put pressure on the first-choice players to keep performing.

This has been the most important close season in history and to say TFG has fucked it up is to put it mildly.

You cannot run a football club by committee and the only clubs where a DoF works are where they have a big pot of money and a large academy.

Moyes is not the greatest manager since sliced bread and a lot of us thought we could and should have done better but we could also have done a lot worse if you look back at our recent history of managers.

Moyes is not one to break contracts, especially as he loves the club, but a lot of managers would have quit over this fiasco of being unable to land any players and seeing the CEO looking at 2 September as a target date to have completed transfers.

What do the moaners prefer? That he stays silent when we know the problems.

He wants players, as yet he obviously has not got them yet, is that his fault? Of course not.

He knows that, until Everton get the right side reinforced, then the balance of the team will remain unbalanced and trying to compensate for it.

“The only clubs where a DoF works are where they have a big pot of money and a large academy.”

Not sure about this, plenty of smaller clubs have done well with a DoF or TD in England and Europe.

Who is going to stand up for the fans? Who is going to demand more???

Have you become so conditioned, so meek to accept rubbish, accept substandard players, half a squad and mediocrity,, that you're moaning that the manager wants MORE????

Wake up!!! Moyes was basically retired. He doesn't need this job. He's made enough for him and his kids and his kids' kids. He's only doing this job to be ambitious, to get us higher up, to compete.

Why else should he bother? He's older and wiser now. He has the power now. He's Moyes 2.0 not the 1.0 subservient to the board and grateful to be given a chance.

If the board aren't going to deliver, then he may as well walk… Why stay doing a crap boring job?

De Rossi was sacked not for public dissension but for issuing a her-or-me ultimatum to the owners regarding the highly-respected CEO. The owners chose the CEO and cleared her to sack De Rossi. The Roma Ultras then threatened her life, and having young children, she understandably resigned. She wasn't dumped.

But you're right that they picked a disastrous replacement in Juric. They did quickly course-correct and brought in Ranieri to put everything back on the rails.

Jay #77, go ahead and share how TFG has "fucked it up" -- I can't wait.

If you were a promising young player and offered the chance to join Everton would you if:

1) You see our league position in recent years; and

2) The manager publicly says "We are not ready for the season, we didn't come to the USA expecting to win. I don't have the players I want."

Is that a good sales pitch? Would you think: "Yes, that sounds like a perfect situation for me. A manager who publicly says my future team mates are crap, expects to lose, and who hasn't got his team ready for the season!"

Or would you think: "You know what, I'll stay a little longer here at Lyon, Como wherever, and maybe Brighton, Bournemouth, Leverkusen, RB Salzburg will come calling and offer a safer path forward."

Seems like some young players do want to come here.

And if I was a promising young player who wanted to make money and have a chance to play and contribute immediately, I'd sure as hell listen to Everton offers.

They had a manager who is an expert in the transfer market. Despite that, the Friedkins appointed this chap from the Championship to run it all, and who promptly appointed a Committee of Wonders to lead us through the window.

He's now saying we shouldn't judge him and them til September, when the season is already 3 weeks old, and we've got the weakest squad in the league.

If he ever was an expert, he is not now.

They've got some cracking players.

Hopefully no more injuries and a couple in in the next 2 weeks will ease things. On top of that, wasn't McNeil injured for most of the time during Moyes's time last season?

A fit McNeil will be a real asset to the team, I think; plus Calvert-Lewin and Broja were never properly fit - so, Barry is an improvement on both of those together at this moment. Also, a fit Chermiti might offer something new too.

That said, reinforcements definitely needed squad-wise.

He failed to connect with a couple of good crosses yesterday but he did show some ability to control and hold up balls that were played to him.

Chermiti was played out of position and he was ineffective.

And what it highlighted was midfielder runners not getting close enough to him.

It's interesting to follow the discussion of our performance in the window as I watch TV to follow "deadline day" in the US. We have one here too, for baseball, and it happens midseason. The teams in contention for the playoffs are buyers of veteran players, trading young prospects to teams that are already out of the race. And most of the major trades happen in these last few hours. It gets crazy -- often players are traded in the middle of games, sometimes even to the opponent that day. A player on the field for one team on Wednesday will be pulled from the game suddenly -- no explanation -- and after a post-game announcement, will be in the other team's uniform on Thursday.

The fans follow the rumors, negotiations and rival deal offers just as avidly, and agonize just as much about not getting players their team needs, but what you never hear is moaning about "leaving it late" and not getting the trades done early in the period. Everybody accepts that this is how it is, how business is done. And there's no concerns about "bedding in" -- traded players are expected to meet their new teammates and get on with it right then.

It's a fascinating contrast.

The jury is out on a player that has just joined and has had how many minutes under his belt with new team mates!

Glad to see patience is the order of the day.

How quick do you think he should be up and running?

Although they are doing much worse without him, he was underachieving there relative to how much they spent.

Don't forget Haller and Scammacca – his disastrous attempts to find a top-quality striker.

He is a low-cost striker and still very young.

Calvert-Lewin and Beto had the same problem last season. It's an area in which our current midfield is badly deficient IMO.

I hoped Alcaraz would be better at it, but he too is often too far away.

No, I don't think that's true. He spent a lot, but only from money he generated. He brought in £165M for Kudus and Rice alone, and has signed Bowen, Alvarez, Paqueta, Soucek, Coufal, Aguerd, to name a few, who all went on to increase significantly in value.

Compare that to the magic we've created during the same time.

Moyes and Dyche, both in a nutshell. Isolated striker with no support. Beattie, Johnson, Bent, Calvert-Lewin, Beto. Only Lukaku and to an extent Yakubu managed this awful negative system.

I hope Barry isn't ruined. Maybe Ndiaye could bridge the gap from the current squad… but he will need to be central.

Less so I think with baseball, where the individual performance is more key.

And so if we leave everything til the last day, we can easily find ourselves with poor team spirit and behind the 8 ball.

He's played a grand total of about 65 minutes of football for the club, but apparently the jury are still out on him. Unbelievable!!

Sadly, it now looks like we will be relying on a few last-minute buys or loans to bolster the squad. So a poor start to the season is almost guaranteed.

We have also lost the' Goodison effect' which I feel sure was worth an extra man.

Finally, we have the manager openly complaining that his team is not ready and short of numbers.

All this when our neighbours have spent the summer adding to a championship squad and are playing to record crowds in Japan. Great!!!

Had we spent anything like that, fans on here would have been screaming incompetence at failure to have Champions League runs etc.

If they were to sell Bowen tomorrow, you could probably add up to £100M the money Moyes brought to the club. Paqueta was due to be sold for £80M til the betting scandal emerged, and the mistakes he made he was able, like with Beattie, to move them on relatively quickly, unlike us with our bums.

That's not loads at all.

My point about young players joining us was Moyes's negative comments on top of our recent seasons. They aren't going to help.

Supposedly, Fofana has cold feet. If he does, Moyes's remarks won't sway him.

Barry needs to hit at least a cumulative 70 minutes on the pitch before we can make an absolutely definitive decision on him from the only two options available:

Brilliant or Crap.

It's not good enough when the club goes to The States to raise the club's profile and we are putting out teams like this. It's hardly a good advert for transfer targets.

We need another 5 players and 2 or 3 of those need to go straight into the first XI; otherwise, it's going to be another hard season looking over our shoulders.

Their report on last night's games says:

"Everton took the lead in the 17th minute after winning the ball on the halfway line, with Jack Harrison running at the defence and then freeing captain Idrissa Gana Gueye, who fired underneath Wes Foderingham."

Outside of Doucoure (replaced by Alcaraz), the first 11 could be the team that finished the season so well. And they did finish the season well, no matter how it is looked at.

So, the first team under Moyes continuing into this season would not be a bad one!

The squad, however, is another thing altogether.

You are either completely right or 100% wrong, mate!

The likes of Alvarez and Aguerd mentioned above are now worth considerably less than the €73M they were bought for – similar to the massive losses on Scamacca and Haller amongst a few others.

They did buy good players too – but (to the original point ) to credit Moyes as being an expert in the modern day transfer market is laughable. Many of the same mistakes as early era Moshiri.

We may not know for a while if he will be successful for us.

At least let's give him a few games, or even months before he faces any jury decision.

I am sure the search for new additions to his squad is of some consequence to him, but really, does it come before the use of proper syntax? I think not!

The massive wage bill was 9th in the Premier League, Everton were 10th. With that, Moyes got 6th, 7th, 14th and 9th. Invariably he delivered more than expected from the resources on show, including a European trophy.

We got 10th, 16th, 15th, 17th over the same period. His net spend of €250M did include some that didn't work out, like all managers.

"Huge losses" is a bit of an exaggeration when we had Mina, Sigurdsson, Tosun, Walcott, Gbamin, Bolasie, and Niasse walk for nothing. Now that's a whole new level.

Scamacca was signed for £30M and sold for £22.5M. Not a fortune lost, and proves that every transfer is a gamble. Is he a bad player? No; Atalanta proved he's a good player prior to a bad injury. Not the first Italian to fail in the Premier League.

Haller's fee was probably never as high as reported; he was signed for up to £45M, and sold for £19M. Gold no doubt building it up to be more than it was. Leaving for Dortmund for €35M. Again, the Premier League just wasn't for him.

Moyes has always said, if he makes a mistake in the market,, he's keen to move them on quickly. Quite how much interference was going on in buys from the DofF and Gold is anyone's guess. But I doubt it was all Moyes's work and why there was always a tension.

This seems to be something you do with managers you like... to distort the truth to suit your argument. I seem to recall you doing similar with Benitez who you thought was going to be an excellent Everton manager.

I'm not trying to dig you out and there is no doubt West Ham are worse off than when Moyes was manager — if you want to argue that he was a good West Ham manager, I wouldn't argue with you.

Personally, I am of the view that his successor was a dreadful appointment but that is neither here or there and the reality is that West Ham are much worse off than when Moyes was manager.

But you have invented this bollocks that "Moyes was an expert in the transfer market" and used some successes that had fuck-all to do with Moyes as your success stories for him.

The German guy, Tim Steidten, brought in Kudus. Moyes wanted English-based players while he wanted to shop for the best talent around the world. Apparently according to West Ham fans, Paqueta was nothing to do with Moyes.

Some of the lavish spending under Moyes was ridiculous and, apart from his first window with Soucek and Coufal, who were bargains, his transfer dealings were atrocious and the main reason I'm glad he hasn't got full control at Everton.

You mention Rice – he was already in the first team squad before Moyes returned. West Ham had lined up Bowen before Moyes's arrival and some of the shit Moyes brought to that club was worse than Moshiri.

You say West Ham have some top players. For the money spent, without purging like we had to do, I think they are in a terrible state considering the finances invested. Ward-Prowse is the poster boy of Moyes's spending at West Ham.

Moyes got us consistently to the European spots with a negative net spend over a decade, and did the same thing with West Ham (if he'd sold Bowen). He also improved and sold on Rice at full value (a skill in itself).

that he is an expert in the transfer market is not even an opinion, it's just a fact. We, more than anyone, should know that after the decade we've just endured.

And if he had wanted to veto Kudus he could have. He didn't, so he was a player signed on his watch, and so he gets the credit. Certainly he can't be excluded form his role of honour just cos he was scouted by someone else.

Why would he say that? Did he just make it up?

Our wage bill was about 11th, fair enough... but closer to clubs at 17th and 18th last season at least than West Ham in 9th.

West Ham had almost created a Big 9 along with similar spenders Villa, Spurs and Newcastle. And like I say, €500M additional spending on Everton.

Don't get me wrong: I think Moyes is as good a fit as anyone for the next couple of seasons, and he's a sensible bloke, but he's done nothing of any real note in the transfer market for years. His recent track record is £25M to £50M fees on players often no better than he was buying for £25M and below. Very early years Moshiri.

Compared to the transfer experts who recruit at Liverpool (not the manager) and others who have built up really good squads (again, nothing to do with the managers), Moyes's record is very mediocre and certainly nothing to merit “expert” status.

As for Scamacca due to amortisation WHU only lost £2.5m on his sale. After 1 season his liability cost to West Ham was £25m, they sold him for £22.5m.

In total Sullivan/WHU lost a combined £7m on the transfers to Ajax & Atalanta respectively.

You can't simply deduct the sale fee from the purchase fee. Football doesn't work that way and is the reason why players don't form any part of a clubs value.

Moyes is not (yet) saying 'panic stations', 'we're doomed!' he's saying we're not where we need to be yet in either new signings or some key players who haven't featured (Branthwaite, Pickford, Tarks), and thus we shouldn't judge these results too much - that's blatantly, obviously true. Maybe it's a bit blunt for some, and maybe it's not the smartest PR, but facts are facts. Saying 'it's all fine when we play turgid football and get beat by an equally abject West Ham doesn't serve anyone.

Travers, Patterson, Keane, Iroegbunam and Armstrong should not be starting players in our PL first XI - so that's almost half the team that started here.

“I’m not overly concerned because I don’t have the players which I need and what I want,” he said. “It was never really about coming here and winning.” “Until we get better players back, until we add to the squad, we are always going to struggle, no matter who we are up against."

Now there’s something that could never happen in the Premier league!

My best guess is that we have a priority list and Davey, Angus and Pete are working their way down it. Offering, rejection, try again, then move on. And if they aren’t able to fill all the holes with good purchases, I’d be willing to bet they have a fallback plan to bring in late loans. Moyes will not allow us to get into September shorthanded.

Moyes is right in what he says, we need players, but there is a deep irony in hearing him complain.

So unfortunately for some, the idea Moyes got rid of Thelwell is pure nonsense.

The Friedkin Group/Kinnear wanted different individuals and not just one man doing everything like a director of football.

If he was so good, why did he end up in the Scottish league?

Moyes arrives, Thelwell is shown the door. Do the math.

Reuben Vinagre

Neal Maupay

Connor Coady

Jack Harrison x2

Arnaut Djanuma

Beto

James Garner

Jesper Lindstrom

Being talked about like some kind of Michael Edwards and Ian Graham type figure

😂😂😂

We may (once again) want to also remember to decent signings under his tenure:

JakE O'Brien

James Tarkowski

Vitali Mykolenko. Not the best, but improved once Moyes returned, particularly going forward.

James Garner. Some will scoff, and with Doucoure and Jack Harrison gone, likely to become the latest whipping boy in some quarters, but he had a good run in last season once he returned to fitness.

Return of Gana, one of our most important players last season and player of the season.

I'll repeat Beto in a different context. He had a good second part of last season once we started using him correctly.

I'll say McNeil. A bit like Garner, not everyone's favourite, but does a decent job for us. He suffered from a prolonged injury last season.

It's very easy to weight an argument to a narrative. I've just done it.

All opinion based and also consider that not every transfer is a success, just as much as not every transfer is a failure. Thelwell did a good job, but isn't here now.

So by my calculations Thelwell made one bad buy. One. Maupay. That's a pretty damn good batting average for any DOF, let alone one operating under the chaotic conditions and budget disasters he faced.

I'm calling a very loud BS on your assertion that Thelwell was looking to leave Everton when the ownership changed. By 100% of the reporting that I read, from ESPN to The Athletic to the Guardian and BBC, Thelwell wanted and intended to stay. You are only correct in that it was Friedkin, not Moyes, who made the call to sack him.

And "end up in the Scottish league"? Puh-leeze. Rangers is a big club by any measure. The league may be pathetic, but the club's average home attendance is almost 50,000 (in the world's top 20 for gate revenue) and the traveling support is among the best on the planet -- upwards of 100,000 for some games in Europe. Setting aside broadcast revenue, Rangers make more money than Everton -- almost double the commercial revenue and way more at the gate.

Hold the sneering, Ryan. Thelwell did well for us and got a deservedly great job out of it.

I think people with long memories have been waiting for this from Moyes, me included.

The last thing I want to hear from my manager is negatively and lowering of expectation before a ball is kicked in anger.

Thousands of Evertonians have paid out to watch us in a brand new stadium only for the manager to start on his usual self preservation drivel.

We all know we aren't world beaters but it's his job to try and get us there and bridge the gaps not just feather his own nest and put us all back in our boxes.

The first year of Roberto was like we had all been in a coma for 11 years and all of a sudden football was enjoyable again.

I acknowledge the job Moyes did last year was exceptional but ffs change the record Davey.

Alan (8) - exactly, instead of Henry V, we get Charlie Brown. Inspirational.

I wasn't too fussed about the result of a pre-season friendly, but was then buoyed by the arrival of my Roma ticket and eventual delivery of my season ticket.

I thought hard about writing this, but I'll leave myself open to a slating, and that's fine by me.

Firstly, I'm not Moyes bashing. For large parts of his Everton career, he has enjoyed the support of a lot of Evertonians, and certainly in the second half of last season.

But, we have to remember, that quite a lot of the Evertonian support base remain suspicious of his previous history of continuously lowering of expectations.

His recent press interviews provide flashbacks, which don't help his cause. We've seen it with previous managers. Supporters aren't fools and can quickly turn, especially when using us a reason for his comments and it doesn't go well.

Do we want him to succeed? Of course we do. But his demeanour is becoming a throwback and isn't helpful. Stop making excuses and tell us something we don't know.

Roma sold out. Over 40,000 season tickets sold, the maximum we are permitted to sell. The scramble for tickets has started.

It may be testing, but pressure is what comes with being in a senior position. The last thing we need is a meltdown in front of the media as we head into the new season. Not only scaring off potential signings, but the potential impact on existing ones, that will be here next season.

Whoever he has available for next season, his job is to get it right on the pitch, like he mostly did last season.

I think people with long memories have been waiting for this from Moyes, me included.

There are indeed a few ToffeeWebbers who have been waiting patiently, often making conciliatory comments, whilst furiously sharpening their knives, waiting for their moment, ever since Moyes returned.

Why are you such an optimist when it comes to the team...yet pretty negative when it comes to Moyes?

Fair enough I take the point about his previous tenure here and perhaps some of his statements and decisions since he came back might very well point to the fact that we're in for more of the same but it's not like you to focus on the negatives.

I mean even when the team have lost 4 games in a row and are away to Arsenal in the next fixture... you focus on the positives and believe we will win.

PS I'm obviously not "Curious Danny"... it's just a turn of phrase.

PPS In an East Enders twist... is it cos he's not your second cousin... he's your... cue music

Sadly, and not for the first time, the recent press coverage from us has all centred on our difficulties and failures in attracting additional players. Surely this must now impact on our negotiating position with selling clubs and potential new players all pushing for a better deal.

We all knew that it was going to be necessary to bring in a considerable number of additional players and the positions where they were needed. Sadly we now appear to be in a last-minute scramble and are suffering the consequences.

I am not sure whose fault all this is but clearly the process looks chaotic and poorly planned and will likely impact on results for the season ahead.

I always get optimistic as we approach a match. In between, I have criticised the club, the board, managers and players alike over the years. Just as much as I'll praise for good performances.

Negative about Moyes? I lost faith in him in his last few seasons first time out and was underwhelmed when we reappointed him. But I continuously got behind him and the team and have praised him countless times for the job he did last season. Without him, we were heading for the Championship.

I don't want to keep repeating myself, it's all up there and on other threads. I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat myself. Others say similar.

My point has been consistent. I don't agree with how he's negatively communicated on public global media. That's not me being negative. It's him.

Here's to a better performance against United and then the trip home for the Roma match before the real business starts and we can properly judge the board, manager and players.

Whether that's the budget available, the owners backing, or the recruitment team. See it all the time, Mourinho is probably the worst for it. There's definitely a self-preservation aspect to it.

I find it a bit tiresome. But, also find it extremely disconcerting that we are so under-prepared and the last thing we need is our failings played out in public.

Moyes might be a lot of things but he certainly is no transfer expert.

I believe it was Ryan who stated it will be interesting to see where Virgínia ends up? Well, he is at Sporting Lisbon.

I get your sentiment. This isn't at you, but as I've been labelled as negative about Moyes, I don't think any manager I can remember was an expert in the transfer market.

Those old enough will remember Howard Kendall's first batch of the "Magnificent 7", of which only Neville Southall came through.

In the 90s, we signed some complete duds bar the odd glimmer of hope in the likes of Kanchelskis and Limpar.

Moyes had some success, just as he bought a few flops, which we could all list.

I wouldn't call any manager an expert. The transfer market is a gamble for many reasons. Players don't fit the system, don't settle into the club or environment, or prove not to be the player the manager thought he was getting.

You could apply it to most managers of most clubs.

Yes, I saw he went to Sporting Lisbon as their new Number 2.

West Ham may have spent loads, but they also brought in loads or increased the value of their squad. Gold and Sullivan aren't in football to dream… they are/were there to make money.

They didn't want to sack Moyes, they understood the job he'd done for them (but those wise Hammers knew better) — just as Kenwright waxed lyrical for a decade.

* 3rd kit is shite
* We lost pre-season games
* We don't look fit 3 weeks before the season
* Alcaraz is shit
* McNeil is slow
* Jury is still out on Barry
* Our bench is crap
* Why isn't Moyes bringing our bench on?
* Why are we making public bids for players?
* Ballot for tickets isn't working
* Moyes shouldn't talk us down
* Moyes shouldn't talk us up
* The club don't tell us anything
* Club shouldn't tell us stuff that way
* We should be realistic about what signings we can get
* We should show more ambition in signings
* Grealish isn't any better than what we have
* Fofana is left-sided, where's our fast right winger?
* Why is Moyes trying that formation?
* Moyes has no ambition
* Why is Moyes talking about taking us into Europe?

He's unlikely to play except as injury cover. Same deal as here but with better weather and closer to home.

I know Virginia's contract was up at the end of June, but was he offered a new contract? And did he turn it down, or did the club decide not to renew it?

The only reason I ask is because there are one or two who want to know why we paid £4M for a back-up goalkeeper when we had Virginia.

As Mike Gaynes pointed out on another thread, despite the unprecedented financial constraints he was working to, his only flop is Maupay and we still made a lot of the money back.

Moyes did great building a team here for what would now be regular £20M to £40M signings and a few cheaper bargains. A fair share of flops too but very, very few truly exceptional players. He also has a track record in buying players beyond that £40M limit (inflation adjusted into the past) who are no better or worse than the cheaper players he was buying.

Sensible, yes. Pretty good with mid-table budget, yes.

Experience / connected into low-cost markets in France, Belgium, Portugal, Scandinavia, South America, Far East etc – no sign of that. Connected in the sorts of data analytics the RS persuaded Klopp to use? Don't believe so.

Out of touch with the sophisticated global market therefore, probably yes.

His contract expired and it looks like he wanted to go home instead of re-sign for us.

Otherwise we may have been handing Michael Keane the gloves if Pickford got injured!!!

Don't get me wrong: Moyes has his faults, some of which you have touched upon. His record of making good players great, of buying those players at £25M plus is much patchier.

But you're now comparing him with Liverpool, whose record since the Yanks took over has been absolutely outstanding (best in class).

We don't need to match that in order to appreciate that it should have been Moyes and not Kinnear who appointed our transfer committee (if we are to have a committee), and that he can credibly be considered an expert.

If you had been able to ask Kenwright was Moyes an expert in recruitment, do you think he would have hesitated in saying 'Yes'?

I'll just reel off the Everton list: Cahill, Arteta, Baines, Coleman, Lescott, Jagielka, Martyn, Stones. and what price now for Neville who could play well at both full-back positions plus clogger in midfield? All players picked up for buttons.

Look at us now, pathetically grateful to Thelwell when he signed players who didn't instantly nose-dive in value. Does O'Brien compare with Lescott, or Ndiaye with Arteta?

It's like saying the jury's out on Barry after about an hour of pre-season football, still finding his surroundings.

As previous, Moyes had successes, but like any football manager, Everton or not, he had failures if you want to list them too.

And it's still very good. That West Ham team: Soucek, Coufal, Alvarez, Aguerd, Paqueta, Ward-Prowse, Bowen would all make our first eleven.

That's debatable, Robert. Torres was bought around that time for £30M as a top line striker. How much would he fetch today, £80M? It wouldn't be £300M.

More recently, Everton's owners are reportedly acquired a data company to further assist Moyes with player recruitment. The notion that Moyes is behind the curveball on data analytics is absolute bollocks.

My personal view is that Thelwell was not the instigator of the O'Brien and Mangala transfers. This more looks like the work of Textor and Moshiri as part of a takeover attempt, than Thewell identifying these players from scratch.

Thewell has had very few successes of players we would want to keep long term. Ndiaye, having scored in the Championship and flopped in Marseille, wasn't a difficult one to spot.

My point is that Moyes is no different to other managers.

Some transfers come off, others don't.

I've never known it different in football in general.

Ian, don't start me. Alardyce was an early adopter of sport science. I'd rather not talk about Allardyce.

None of David Moyes's transfer windows come in the top 300 football fee inflation adjusted windows since the Premier League began.

** Andrei Kanckelskis was a £126M player based on today's transfer prices!

https://x.com/KieranMaguire/status/1951217693631053850/photo/1

He got us 8th, Danny. In a couple of years time, that would be Champions League football! 😂.

Koeman had to go that season, no doubt. He didn't want to be there in the first place and wasn't interested.

But to appoint a true dinosaur, and a corrupt one at that, didn't sit well with me. He was about to take a bung until he got rumbled and was dismissed after one game for England.

I wonder what Tony Kay made of that as Allardyce was given a lifeline back into football?

You and I could have got that team to finish 8th that season. I had the pleasure (let's call it that) of sitting right behind him in the dugout at the Emirates as Arsenal once again schooled us.

I probably didn't need it, but listening to him close up didn't need to remind me of my opinion of him. Some of the instructions he was dishing out were diabolical. In fact, they weren't instructions, they were constant criticism, Jonjoe Kenny getting abused by the manager for doing what the manager told him to do.

One of the few occasions I've lost it, stood up and shouted abuse at the manager in close proximity. He looked at me, and turned away. I was still there and had my say at the end.

That set of steak knives we received as a consolation prize after losing to West Ham has to be put to use somehow.

[It's a live forum reference, btw.]

My figures are a guesstimate based on what it could now to buy a fit 28-year-old 50-cap Premier League stalwart with bags of medals and Champions League experience?

Wayne Rooney... 11th highest.
I thought we had given him away.

Obviously I'm using a very broad interpretation of "interesting"!

I don't have that information.

Moyes probably doesn't merit a steak knife... do American's do butter knives?

And no... it's not an anatomical reference.

Butter...not so much?

I'm not touching the anatomical there.

The adjuster says Chelsea would have spent €492.36M in today's money, in a season they actually spent €91.5M

Using the same rate of inflation, Phil Neville would have cost, in today's money, €28.5M.

The currency exchange means that would be £24.86M.

If I get bored, I might do a few more of these.

I would have shouted all sorts of abuse at that cretin Allardyce if I was that close to him. I probably would have been banned from London or even the UK. He should never have been at our club.

Soucek and Ward-Prowse would have to walk into this Everton team, because neither of them are capable of going any quicker.

Their day has been and gone. But the West Ham fans would be delighted if we were stupid enough to buy them both.

A once basic skill seems to be above and beyond a lot of younger players. A bit like tackling.

I think they'd be good business, Moyes knows all about both of them. And we desperately need numbers.

If signing them meant we could get the Dibling deal done and maybe secure an Aznou type right-back, that might represent good business.