Leeds United vs Everton: Preview and Predicted Lineups

Many players are going for ridiculous Fees, which are not commensurate with their ability imho. It will be interesting to see some we have been linked with, if they justify their Fee, flourish or fail !

I do think Moyes should name specifically the targets we have missed out on and have made this point before. If players are turning us down in favour of other clubs, name them. Then we all know where we stand.

Looks like the Dibling deal is moving further away from us as he takes a place on the bench today.

McAtee is going Forest, so you can forget that one, Tommy.

I still think it will be one of Fofana, Fatawu or Dibling.

Do you think that players' agents phone every club that's interested in them to notify them that they've been “ditched” and then triumphantly announce their new beau club?

That's not how player negotiations work.

Priorities are a Winger and a proven striker now.

Nobody knows how much Leicester want for Fatawu. Unless it's silly money, I'd just pay it. Easily the best option.

I think it serves a valuable purpose. Such as when Kendall left because he wanted to sign Dion Dublin and the board refused to sanction it. And likewise with Joe Royle with Tore Andre Flo.

Royle and Kendall both went public and then the fans knew where we stood and what the barriers to progress were.

All we hear now is Moyes owning about not getting the players who he wants. Well who are they? And his implication is that it's an everyone else but him stopping it from happening. Is this the case? Are the people behind the scenes to blame? Or are players just selecting preferred alternatives.

I'd like to know. I'd certainly like to know if players are choosing Forest, Bournemouth, Brighton etc ahead of Everton.

I certainly remember it being helpful to me as a supporter in 1995 knowing that we were actively trying to sign Collymore and Chris Armstrong because it gave me an indication of what direction the club were looking to go in. We never got those deals done either but I found the information helpful. Likewise the following summer when we declared interest in Alan Shearer. It was never going to happen. The following summer, Ravanelli. Again. Didn't happen but at least we didn't have managers moaning about faceless and nameless transfers not being done.

Obviously Doucoure is a hard watch, but he was absolutely key to the way we set up. We didn't do much with the ball, but we sat in and made things very difficult for the other side.

How many times did we knock the momentum out of the other team and then grab a goal and the points last season? That won't be the case now, teams can play through us as evidenced by our preseason games.

Hopefully Grealish settles but I'm not expecting anything significant for at least a month till he gets match-fit. I'm also worried about the form of Beto, Alcaraz and McNeil. I was hoping they'd show a lot more than they have. Let's hope it's all right on the night, but Leeds look like a tough nut (what a surprise).

Feels like something is going on behind the scenes.

That difference might well be made up if we finish a couple of places higher than we otherwise would. Not to mention the strong prospect of an appreciating asset.

‘An 18-year-old for the reserves who will never be seen again'

Which 18-year-old?

Also, Lewis hasn't gone to Forest

We already know which targets we’ve been in for:

Malick Fofana
Francisco Conceição
Johan Bakayoko
Tyler Dibling

Maybe younger, promising talent with Premier League experience (ie, Dibling) is worth more than I appreciated, especially given the premium on Englishmen.

I think Moyes can move players around to form a decent attacking formation.
It should be a tightish game and could go either way, I suspect.

That's crazy money for Quattara, who hardly got a game at Bournemouth, it just shows the way the market's gone.

Puts footy in perspective, folks.

Loss of a pet is awful.

I thought Ashley Young, who came on for the last 15 minutes, looked worth a shout… just realised, he was with us last season!

Dibling, £45M, someone is joking.

Coleman - Tarky - O’Brien - Aznou

Gana - KDH

Alcaraz - Grealish - Ndiaye

Beto

We need to replace Doucoure’s goals and Jimmy Garner provides sweet fuck all… Praying we get Bissouma

Sean 32 - you are right that he doesn't have any real end product. Sometimes he shows some glimpses of real quality, but then it it disappears for a dozen games or so.

Class that 👏😂

Robert @20, my sincere condolences. Most who read my drivel on here know what my dogs mean to me. I always consult them the morning before an Everton match to get a feel.

I've just added my 5th, having lost 3 along the way. My boy, passed in September. Heart attack and only 7. I was taking him out and he collapsed on the drive. Now it's one thing that he weighed in at 52kg (105lbs), Add dead weight to that and it was an epic moving him 10 metres back into the house.

Now I still have the girl, Bella. Francesca Bella in a loose reference to Francesco Totti. The wife's choice and long before any TFG connections to Roma.

My new addition is Enzo. 14 weeks old. Being pack dogs (Rhodesian Ridgebacks), I've always tried to keep 2, as they prefer company.

I always say, dogs know loyalty like humans can only talk about.

If he doesn’t name them then the book stops with him. He’s the manager and he’s the problem as to why we aren’t signing players.

Dithering Dave. Who at one of the biggest and most powerful football clubs in the world, had a market full of players available to him and ended up with Marouane Fellaini and got a custard pie from Leighton Baines.

Back to them. Slot has made it clear they are still in the hunt for new signings and looking for another forward option. But he hasn't mentioned names and wouldn't be drawn by the hungry journalists, simply saying he won't discuss players that belong to other clubs.

Moyes is doing the same.

Openly selling anything, directors staying away, points deductions, sackings, relegation fights, getting involved with organisations with a questionable reputation.

All that will take a while to overcome, never mind European qualification or football style.

I am no great Moyes lover, but am grateful for his input last season where if (hypothetically) we had stuck with Dyche, there was a strong possibility we, would now be in the Championship.

Be realistic we are not the Club we once were, mainly through bad Management/Board appointments, so therefore not so attractive to potential transfer targets. I do believe though, if we rebuild, our time may come again. It won't be easy but not impossible either !

2-2 draw, methinks.

Robert #57, recent history is always relevant until you change it. As for Sunderland, an imperfect comparison in my view. They've spent £60 million more than us, none on players we were in for (can you imagine Moyes wanting Xhaka?). Compare us to clubs with whom we've actually competed for players, and I think Ian's point stands.

Sean #35, I can remember. Leicester game. Garner's through ball to Beto was our best pass all season. And as for Doucs' goal threat, we have already replaced it and then some. What we will miss about him is his up-front ball pressure. And his inspiration.

#51, when have you EVER heard a manager name the players he bid for and missed on? Never. What possible purpose would it serve? Bizarre that you keep pushing this point.

I lost my older Springer (Max) who was 12 just over 3 weeks ago. Like you I had to make a decision after he went downhill very fast (a few days). It is devastating but also the kindest option and borne out of love, I like to think that he understood.

Anyway, back to the football. I am so looking forward to the game tomorrow, it will be a hostile atmosphere but with our usual away support we can handle it. Daniel Farke had a tough time when he last managed in the Prem with Norwich, we can win this one.

It’s not just standings it’s money. Brentford just gambled 45 million on a guy who couldn’t cut it at Bournemouth. If it works out great if it doesn’t they’re not Chelsea and can’t but 5 more for a similar price to try again. If reports are to be believed we are having trouble agreeing reasonable fees. But it’s not just us. Every club seems to have realized spending needs to reigned in but at the same time wearing their seller hats every club is demanding top dollar. Hence it’s been a slow window with a massive gap between what sellers want and what buyers will pay. That’s why Isaak is stuck in limbo. If we had the mindset of the Koeman era we’d already have signed the Soton lad and to hell with the consequences. But would that be wise?

If we’d have matched Ipswich’s asking price for Hutchinson but offered a higher wage - which recent basket case club does he pick?

The one with a failed Spurs manager, points deductions, shady owner, years in the wilderness and probably a one off shot at the Europa league because Spurs and Utd were so abysmal last season?

Or the one with a failed Man Utd manager, new stadium, new owners, ever present in the Prem etc?

I think he just goes for the higher wage, no?

You’re speculating though because who have we definitely been in for that we missed out on? Allegedly, the Fulham FB but surely the fact he’s settled in London was a factor in him staying where he was. Other than that we’ve been rumored to be linked with various players who are still where they were when the window opened.

Some would dismiss Everton out of hand. Others you'll be starting the conversation on the back foot explaining the past. In a competitive environment whether youre signing academy, back room staff or first team players, then that's a more difficult task than it should be.

Being on the psr naughty step and submitting plans of players to be sold, will have never been kept in house between Everton and the Premier league. It would have been leaked all over the show, and will have told untold damage to the reputation of efc.

The media still dismiss us as a club. Thats where we are. Why are players and agents thinking differently?

Forrest, villa & Newcastle are a bit further in their squad development too.

It's not about us not stumping up the 30 -40m it's the players decision to come here.

We have not been an attractive place to play for years now, it will take time to change that.

In the meantime we need to be more creative, more willing to take the punt on the 10- 15 -20m

Players before they go to Leicester, Southampton or wolves. They all have bought some good quality at decent prices or developed young players.

We need to be patient, we all want a better side, but I'd be more interested in incremental long term improvement than buying players that are overinflated because we want new players.

Ramsey wouldn't have come here from villa right now.

Hutchinson had loads of clubs circling.

30m for mcatee is a gamble, it could pay off, I'd rather take 2 £15m gambles.

I'd be happy with a couple of good loans and a RW & RB.

This season is important to show we have changed and we are a better place now than the shambolic years gone by !

If we get someone better than him in by close of the transfer window then I will be glad we didn’t waste that money on him.

Talking about the ‘going rate’ for players, who else thinks Tijjani Reijnders, if his performance yesterday was typical, could be the best value for money signing of the summer at £46.5m? Potentially a late bloomer as his career doesn’t seem to have really taken off until he was 25.

Have I been spelling ‘forest’ wrong?

Is Reijnders a better player than grealish was at 100m? Or declan rice 100m?
The 47m for Reijnders is massive in Italy, not so much here if your taking a clubs best PL player.
It's not like we could have had him for 47m ( I know you didn't suggest that )
The 65m the RS got for Diaz seems low if Hutchinson is 46m it's about how much the sale effects the selling club as much as the players actual value.

Indeed lots of highly rated players seem happy to join the Saudi league.

Kieran #67, just re-read Moyes' comments over the past few weeks. He has made very clear with his recurrent frustration that we were in for players we didn't get. Please don't join the Tommy Carter brigade demanding that Moyes tell us exactly who they are and what we offered, but there certainly have been some... probably more than we read about.

Robert #65, Grealish and KDH came to us for opportunities they weren't getting from their current employers, and because they liked what they heard from Davey. Did you ever read a word about either of them that indicated we had to outbid other competitors, let alone that they turned down higher offers to come to us?

With your last question, you seem to have overlooked my comment at #60: When the money is comparable" . But truly, if I have to explain that despite their performances last season Spurs and United have far higher market profiles than Everton, I'm throwing up my hands here. The obvious is the obvious. And that's going to attract some players that we cannot.

Until we change the narrative -- which I believe will happen this season.

I don’t know who Tommy Carter is but he sounds like trouble lol

That Reijnders guy is something. Just his intelligence. Not the quickest not the most skillful but his read of the game. He reminds me of Tim Cahill with his ability to read where to be near goal. But additionally, he also anticipates the game and creates brilliant openings. Real player City have got there.

The First mate's name was Carter
By God he was a Farter
When the wind did fail
And the ship wouldn't sail
We'd get Carter the Farter, to Start Her ! :-)

From a players point of view thats an obvious plus, also you get more TV exposure, another plus.

The downside is you may be asked to play 3 times a week, some may enjoy doing that but most wont.

Saying Everton are not a club that players would want to play for because they are not in Europe, is ludicrous, imo, especially when you look at both the facilities inside finch farm, and also our incredible new stadium.

Has PSR, totally changed how it operates now Robert? I ask because you say £40 million is not that big of a fee nowadays.

This might be actually be true, but unless clubs can balance their books by selling players to reduce their PSR deficit, then it looks to me that even a few average signings, could bring about a lot of problems unless the rules have changed?

Villa sold their women's team, and just sold Jacob Ramsey for £40m.

If you want a strong first 15 to 20 players, then you need a side trade in punting out players. Thats what we don't have, with nothing in reserve to punt out later.

Moyes says that players want European football and because there are loads of great stadiums (referring to the stadiums that they have just played in in America) he doesn’t think this is a real advantage.

I obviously disagree and believe it’s more about what finances our new owners are prepared to pay, (something that was also alluded to in this article) and whilst this might not be such a bad thing when you consider the way we had been getting run, but when Moyes talked about there being loads of great stadiums, he failed to mention that there are not so many great crowds🤷‍♂️

Thanks Ian, it makes a lot of sense with regards our outlay, because I think the only money we have received is that little few million for Maupay?

That was a big mistake IMO.

Yes, money talks, as can the lure of European football, but players can still be attracted by the lure of a club like Everton. Barry could have stayed. Grealish wants to prove himself and play regularly to edge his way back into the England setup. Dewsbury-Hall could have stayed at Chelsea drawing a big pay cheque. Aznou could have stayed and tried his luck at Bayern. Branthwaite chose to sign a new 5 year contract.

I know what I'm like, but I'm not as naive as I may appear. Those who know me, know that I am realistic.

For the first time in decades, it actually feels like change is on it's way and there are reasons, footballing reasons, that players will want to be part of that.

Players wanting £150k per week, prepared to take £125k, and clubs wanting £45m and taking £40m.

It's a test of nerve, with perhaps more realism in place when the window is about to shut.

Thats the hope, or perhaps the strategy. Weve certainly not paid without haggling terms or price.

Moyes is going public and heavily implying that there is some fault within the structure of the club for transfer failures so far this summer. Thus absolving his own self appointed messianic contribution. No doubt all his old school proper football men pals will be scoffing at old Moyesie being held back by the hierarchy once more.

I want him to name a player that has chosen another club ahead of us. Name and shame them. So that they can be afforded the opportunity to explain exactly why in their own response.

Robert Tressell is the only one talking a bit of sense on this thread.

Players move for the money. And only if the money is evenly matched by a number of parties do other factors come into effect. And they can be prioritised in a number of different and highly subjective ways. The money though. That bit is objective. Completely. And the primary objective.

Almost as bad as Little Pig One... opting for straw!

Don’t forget, Gordon was sold to mitigate PSR. More recently, we have sold Dobbin, Cannon and Simms. Currently, there is Harrison.

But, I take your point that we haven’t deliberately been stockpiling young talent, specifically to dodge PSR.

The only time you hear from any club is when a signing is done and announced.

I don’t think I missed your point Tommy, just as I don’t think any player who has turned us down, would be shamed if they were actually named.

Funny how we get emotionally attached to cars, isn't it? 😬

Sorry I was actually agreeing with you on Reijnders. I believe he's top top quality. If you're replacing KDB you need to be.

I was just thinking, if he was at West Ham or Newcastle or Villa, and Man City came for him, it wouldn't be £47M. Buying in England isn't where the value is.

I think City will come strong this season, they looked so much more comfortable than Liverpool. Bournemouth were good, like, but Man City looked like a well-oiled machine.

Pep has been licking his wounds, he will want that title back, and little Uncle Fester's team look wide open on the counter.

Wages, if insisted on, can be negotiated at a future date.

An Italian record for a national as I understand it Eur 70m or £60m at the time.

I like both.

Maybe Moyes believes the hype/hope... Everton a big club?

Every single manager at Everton gets stick and im tired of it.

How about the blame on our useless owners such as Kenwright Moshiri and The useless Friedkin Group

Absolutely, a good performance and 3 points will certainly help! Super Jack will tie them in knots.

Mark #100, sorry mate - not funny.

Andy #102, absolutely. Any player should consider it to be a huge honour and privilege to play for the worlds best club!

A good start is so important.

I don't dispute that playing in a better side may see him flourish but he often flattered to deceive and I think it's a huge outlay for someone who has a lot to prove.

Yet on this thread it seems a universal view that for just 5 million more Outarra is the world going mad. This is a guy who looked a player every time I watched him and couldn't understand why he didn't get more minutes. Perhaps Ireola felt he and Semenyo were best in the same position.

Last season he had a goal contribution 1 every 2 matches in terms of minutes played and looked their standout player in preseason. I think he will be a great signing for Brentford and wouldn't have minded him if we can't get Dibling.

If we have £150 million to spend and we give 4 year contracts...that's like £600M.

Zouma, Vazquez, Ziyach, Brownhill looking for clubs, plus players out of contract next summer available for nominal fees like a Tripper, Coufal etc or for the more exotic Alaba, Rudiger, Caravjal.

Unlikely on the latter, but no one saw Hierro captain of Real going Bolton, Dugary going Birmingham, or Boro signing Boksic. All class by the way.

We could surely have attracted Mukiele too ahead of Sunderland? This giving us an experienced RB fresh from champions league football with Leipzig and PSG?

I get that we’re less attractive than the richest 8 clubs (although Villa look troubled). But if we are prepared to meet selling club valuations and offer better wages then we’ll beat the other clubs to pretty much every player we target.

As for Europe, playing for a team who might win the Champions League is a big draw. Playing for a team unlikely to win it, not so much (hence Barry joining us from Villarreal etc). Playing in a competition to find Europes best most mediocre team is no attraction whatsoever. Wages will always win that competition.

You’re way off the mark Ryan. Moyes creates a narrative wherever he goes that the club cannot do any better than what he delivers. He got to 2013 with us and he could’ve managed us from that point until 2043 and never won a trophy or had us playing champions league football.

He doesn’t like having money to spend because he doesn’t know what to do with it. When he had money at Everton he bought Bilyaletdinov, Andrew Johnson, Yakubu, James Beattie, Per Kroldrup. Some of his bigger signings at West Ham were abject failures and his biggest spending transfer windows saw the result of him taking that club backwards. They finished 7th one year and he spent nearly £200m and finished 14th.

At Man Utd with all the money in the footballing world at his disposal at that time and he didn’t have half a clue on how to spend it. His only thought was to try and buy the best players from the team he had just left.

There is no sign that I can see that the owners are not backing the manager with funds. If that’s the case, I want to know it.

Based on your comments then I’d assume you’d be happy that Koeman, Allardyce, Benitez, Lampard or Dyche were never moved on?

Ridiculous.

I exclude Marco Silva and Ancelotti who in my opinion were up to the task of managing Everton. But Marco had lost his way much like Martinez before him.

These managers performed poorly and none of them made things any better than how they found it.

Despite the bonkers regime of hiring such managers over the period 2016-2024 - the managers themselves were simply not good enough.

Blame our horrendous owners from Kenwright to The Friedkin group.

Not every manager we have is shit.

Even ancelotti couldn’t get it right.

Ask yourself why Liverpool always get good managers.

They’re owners are mostly always top class.

From the owners to the ceo to the manager. They mostly get it right.

And every manager we employ is ‘not good enough’

Then stop employing them

Because they don’t employ themselves do they

He's far from the only the only one in that price range with such a shallow record however but it's my opinion that Friedkin will have felt ever since he bought in that he's been slapped senseless every day by the untenably greedy, largely fantastical, "development" of a Premier League whereby the so-called top clubs can spend what they want whilst the rest can, to put it politely, just fuck off to lick their wounds.

His (and many others') pockets are way off able to compete in such a corrupt regime.

We sold Richarlison for £60M and Gordon for £40 M because we had to thanks to “them”. Both Richarlison and Gordon would be starters against Leeds if we still had them.

It has dawned on me recently that the only reason I follow Everton is because I, like you, am an Evertonian. Genetic in my case and probably yours also.

So what what do we do?. Keep going in the hope that we will be great again or give up?

I watched the Sunderland fans rejoicing yesterday - they have been through even worse than us so I am going to keep going.

I am hoping we win tonight. Beto to get a hat trick with assists from Grealish, Ndiaye, and Dewsbury Hall😳

Moyes has always went to the depths to lower expectations. That is how he has remained a Premier League Manager so long without winning a domestic competition at Clubs who have a history of doing so.

He is part of the Transfer team more so with no Director of Football.Again he is lowering his responsibility and won't be promising anything in Players negotiations.

It is likely that the main problem on the transfer front is that TFG wants to invest in younger players and Moyes wants seasoned Professionals.He will only play young or inexperienced Premier League players if he had to.

Moyes always has had a limited squad.He could not handle a large squad for multiple competitions or a sustained Premier League challenge for a top 4 finisb.I always hope I am proved wrong.

He will do Ok this season on the transfer window he has had, with a few loans, but don't expect him to win a competition.

H

Club Approximate Average Age

Leeds United (2025/26) ~25.4 – 25.6 years

Everton (current/2025/26) ~24 years 9 months

Everton (2024/25 full squad) ~27.9 years

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L

That said I think we would have beat Leeds with Branthwaite in the team. His loss is tricky as his partnership with Tarkowski has been so strong and without him we probably are more likely to sit deeper or get caught on the break, especially if Keane plays which I think he probably should as it means less moving players around and into their less favoured positions.

Without Branthwaite I see it as pretty even today. Leeds will be up for it and I'd probably take a 1-1.

Yet he keeps talking about wanting to be in European

I remember some of our fans didn’t want to play in Europe during his first tenure!

Which teams he has managed have a history of winning competitions? It’s definitely not Everton West Ham and Sunderland.

Only Manchester United. And they struggled big time since Alex Ferguson left

Given the club has been rejoicing about getting the better of championship sides in relegation battles for the past few seasons seems a bit rich.

Who got us into the Champions League last time around? To date our only qualification for a competition that's been around for decades.

Or established us as the 5th best side 2 years running in 2007-2009 era?

If his expectations were so low why were we trying to buy top- class players like Moutinho, Banega and Fernandes in order to bridge the gap between ourselves and the remaining elite level clubs?

It was the clubs inability to back him that caused us to stagnate and eventually decline, not any failing on Moyes part.

People don't want to acknowledge how hamstrung Moyes was here last time. You need only look at the difference being able to field a decent right hand side, during the loans of Landon Donovan, when we beat Chelsea and Man United back to back at Goodison and came within a whisker of winning at the Emirates, to see the difference a small amount of additional quality made.

Actually, scrub that - we need to add in Unai Emery at Villa as well - so one of 8?

I’ll happen again under this manager abd we will hound out the next manager after him and the next manager under him.

Pickford
O Brien Tarkowski Keane Mykolenko (if fit)
Gana Garner
Ndiaye KDH McNeil
Beto

I work with loads of Leeds fans so please Everton - JUST WIN

Because when Moyes had the chance to capitalise on ascendancy towards champions league qualification in 2005. He spent all his money on an overweight and unfit James Beattie, Per Kroldrup, Simon Davies, Andy van der Meyde and got Matteo Ferrari on loan.

Arteta obviously worked after Moyes reluctantly signed him after pursuing Scott Parker ahead of the Spaniard - only for Parker to choose Newcastle Utd ahead of us.

The only other signing that worked was Phil Neville. Signed as a central midfielder.

So at a pivotal moment in the history and development of the club and team, this was the best he could do. An atrocious set of recruitment that sent the club backwards.

Moyes won nowt and got over eleven years, whilst I don’t think any other manager had ever been given more than five years without winning a trophy before Kenwright changed the narrative.

So before the turn of the last century, Everton had always been a club who were expected to win things: it’s been a long quarter of a century for our very loyal fans.

But again I come back to the people at the top who have allowed this situation.

We’ve won 7 trophies since WWII

Liverpool 45

United 49

Chelsea 28

Arsenal 23

City 28

Spurs 16

Everton 7

We’ve had plenty of seasons to win before and after Moyes and apart from two good decades done nothing

Why have we won nothing since Moyes left, if it’s all his fault?

Why did we not build after he got us regularly 5th 6th 7th ?

I'm less concerned about our midfield and forwards but we need someone to play in the right wing position. I'll leave that to Moyes he should be able to come up with some kind of plan.

Leeds will be still integrating their new players so that will be in our favour, against that their crowd will be going ballistic.

I've really not a clue what to expect but I think a draw will be a decent result.

Just be glad we do not support the other teams like Villa, Blackburn, Newcastle, Huddersfield, Wolves who were also regular trophy winners up until the 1960s. Tough being a blue with only 8 wins.

Looked it up - which came first, Newcastle's last title or WRD's 60 goals? And the answer is. . . .
Next Question - since Spurs' last title we have won it 4 times. Their last title is nearer to today or Christmas day 1897? And the answer is. . . .

Changing the date makes a difference, except I get 48 https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/liverpool-fc/erfolge/verein/31 so let me know the criteria and I will make my point. Ta.

Yes, they've come in for criticism over the years. Moyes playing down expectation, which I find patronising. Dyche, despite keeping the ship afloat, lost the players, the will and then importantly, the supporters. Lampard was tactically naive, but dragged us through. Benitez was never accepted. Koeman didn't want to be here… and the less said about Allardyce, the better.

I think "most" Everton supporters, certainly the ones I sit or stand with, are fully aware of the deep-rooted problems that took us to the brink, and they don't sit in the dugout.

My thoughts this week are mostly going to be about the great Evertonians who fought to keep our club away from Kirkby. I was talking to a Liverpudlian the other night who became very sad when he spoke about his very good mate AJ.

"I knew AJ," I said, "I'm sure he was a member of KEIOC." "He was, yeh," said his mate, and it is these very loyal and genuine Evertonians (who took a lot of stick because of the lies that came from the deceitful mouth of Mr Divisive) that I will be raising a glass to on Sunday.

I think his power play with the owners was essentially a consequence of his frustrations at West Ham where he had to compete with both Sullivan and Steidten (director of football) for control of players coming in. The shit show there meant he was determined to have a greater say at Everton and used his excellent start and Friedkin's determination to get him as leverage to have greater control of transfers.

The fact that Thelwell was given the boot I would suggest was indicative he wasn't about to repeat the same frustrations he faced with the Londoners.

The worry from an Everton perspective is that we are placing too much power in the hands of one man, which is an outdated approach; and secondly to your point that the vast majority of the signings Moyes recruited when given the resources were dreadful. Even before Moyes's poor final season, there was the desire from West Ham fans for Moyes to stick to coaching and Sullivan to keep his nose out and for Steidten to have greater control as the few successful signings like Kudus were recruited by the DoF.

Potter has become a bit of a joke figure since he took over but he has been hampered by the mess he has inherited and no funds to correct it. The ridiculous recruitment of Alvarez and Ward-Prowse to replace the void left by Rice (two players that can't run) is a major weakness still now and Potter wants rid of the likes of Mavrapanos, Areola, and Ward-Prowse — who Moyes brought to the club.

The former Brighton manager is a builder of clubs rather than an impact manager and so he will need to get a few bodies in to sort out the deficiencies in the squad and having to sell Kudus. He will do a decent job there as long as he gets enough results there to survive the short term.

As you say, Tommy, Moyes's self-preservation act at the start of pre-season has no doubt hindered the ability to get deals over the line as clubs have been aware of our desperation and ambitious foreign targets are aware that others don't want to come.

The Friedkins have certainly backed their manager and I don't think they will have taken kindly to his antics when they have had to overhaul the squad and would have wanted a feel of positivity, new beginnings going into their first full season with a brilliant new stadium.

We were barred from Europe which we might have taken by storm if we had been allowed entry.

He was a scapegoat at Man Utd but his stats there, show he was better than many high profile contemporaries in the same situation. He has now come back to a (hitherto) shambles of a Club and done a lot better than many anticipated. Surviving on his points in charge alone, in staving off relegation.

We are not the same proposition we were before, the wrecking ball of Kenwright and latterly with Moshiri, saw to that. I do believe we are on the road to becoming somewhere near where we were, many moons ago. It won't be easy but I believe he is the right man to do it, if he is allowed time and more importantly patience on behalf of the fans.

Tony @ 154, good post mate, many Evertonians don't know the full story, of good and loyal fans like yourself and what has gone on in the past. I know it's the past, but it did shape the future of our once great Club, and in totally the wrong way !

£68M, with possibly another £40M to spend, is backing the manager, although to be fair to the manager, he inherited a much weaker squad than the one inherited by Potter.

I'm not David Moyes's biggest fan by a long shot but I think the writing has been on the wall all summer with regards to how underprepared we are for this coming season.

Who's to blame is irrelevant because, at the end of the day, it's always the manager's head that is on the block, regardless of what is going on behind the scenes.

You'll be an interesting feature at the fan plaza if you want to stand by your beliefs.

Nobody will be more aware of that than Moyes himself, hence his pleas for more recruitment a couple of weeks ago.

Prior to 2013, he was successful in convincing most people that everything was going to be a slow build and that he always limited expectations. Created and maintained a narrative that what he delivered was all the club was capable of.

My feeling is that most Evertonians have no appetite for the slow build routine and cannot see why we can't replicate the recent successes of Newcastle, Nottingham Forest, Crystal Palace and Aston Villa who've all achieved some variant of success in the last few years.

If he has no ambition to be challenging for a trophy this season, then he shouldn't be here. His woeful domestic cup record and record in big matches illustrates his inability to target success.

Both Sunderland and West Ham have won the FA Cup.

I don't want to look as relieved as Moyes's old Dad when he won the inaugural European Conference League.

All the fans who support teams that have won something, want them to win again.

A net spend of between £150M (Ipswich level last year) and £250M (Brighton level last year) would look more like backing the manager.

In the circumstances, £68M looks more like the money needed to, at a push and with some injury luck, help us to stand still.

That would be like we poker player showing his hand before the game was over. Ridiculous.

Thr transfer window is open till 1 September and plenty of deals will take place at the end. As I've said before, the market dictates and it's the selling clubs and agents help wield all the power.

We're not yet a big draw for players either. You need to be more realistic in knowing where we stand in the game at the moment.

I'll be watching with intrepid anticipation. We can do it. Can't we?

We try to do it on the cheap… Every season, every owner.

We tried to capitalize on being in the Champions League. None of our targets wanted to come here. Thankfully, most of them ended up going to Newcastle and getting them relegated within 4 years.

So, however bad the signings we did make look retrospectively, things could have been worse.

Do you honestly believe it was realistic to go from relegation certs to having a squad capable of winning the Premier League and Champions League in one summer transfer window?

If the club was set back so badly by summer 2005, then we did well to finish 6th, 5th and 5th in 3 of the next 4 seasons.

Apart from possibly Royle (and then very briefly), I don't think a single Everton manager in the entire Premier League era has been given anything like resources akin to those of clubs regularly winning things.

£68M net spend is a joke. It just keeps you standing still. But we will go backwards because Spurs and Man Utd aren't finishing below us this season. So that's two places we've lost.

Then we'll blame yet another manager for not meeting ludicrous fan expectations. Because we won the title in 1987, didn't we?

Whilst our tight and useless American owners sit all the way in Texas doing nothing.

If they were ambitious, they would put the money down for Dibling, another centre-midfielder, and a right-back.

Yet Benitez has been criticised by loads while given nothing to spend and with the job of lowering the wage bill which needed him to get rid of some players and how much was Dyche given to spend while keeping the team in successive years.

Some fans have said we will reach 12-15th in the league with the present squad— impossible I'd say, if we don't get more players in we'll be in another relegation scrap no matter who is to blame, the clock is ticking get a move on some bleedin' one!

We spent £69M and you could argue we spent £30M on Barry whilst neglecting other areas of the pitch in more need.

Joke of a window so far.

You have answered your own question: the reason no Everton manager since the start of the Premier League has been given the resources the clubs winning trophies get… got it in one! Win the Champions League or the Premier League, or just do well in both, and that brings in huge sums to spend.

PSR has also stopped Newcastle as well as Everton spending the money they would like. So no surprise the successful clubs are the ones spending big money, or in Man Utd's case, have huge merchandise and gate receipts to help offset PSR being as negative as it is for most clubs finishing outside the Top 6.

The 19-year-old is expected to complete his transfer to the south coast in the next 24 hours in a move that remains subject to paperwork and passing a medical.

Jadon Sancho's salary is the sticking point in a £20m move from Manchester United to Roma. The 25-year-old England winger is keen to see if any other clubs step in and match his weekly wages of about £250,000. Seems the owners stupidity on transfers stretches to Roma.

Because we went from 4th to mid table and then never back to 4th again.

You are implying that the 4th place finish was a fluke. Which it wasn’t. It was the result of a well balanced team playing to its strengths for a season.

With players such as Carsley, Arteta, Yobo, Cahill, Hibbert and Osman that would all go on to feature heavily in the 6th and 5th place finishes that you mention.

So I think that after a 4th place finish, he failed to build and took us backwards. He spent big money on poor players.

Post 2006 there was of course some good business. Lescott, Jagielka and Baines were good signings. But he had to stumble towards all of them playing consistently in their best positions. Pienaar was another good signing and Fellaini was big money that eventually worked out when Moyes realised a way to make him effective.

All of us know that if Moyes is given time and money he will in the next two to three years get us in or around the European places, with a much improved squad.

I could also ask you, who has got Everton 4th since?

Also prior to him getting us 4th when did we finish 4th or above before that ?

I don’t think he’s a bad manager and I certainly haven’t said that.

He can get a team to perform. No doubt about that. Well organised and difficult to beat. And usually tries to field a team with some kind of threat.

But he recruits poorly and cannot win big games. As such, he will never bring the level of success to EFC that the fans want.

We have stood still or potentially gone backwards this summer because of his approach to recruiting players and lack of ability to do so

Of course it can then become circular because TV money / Champions League money does enable more spending etc. but if you want to join the big boys as Chelsea, City and even Blackburn have done - you get the cheque book out first to assemble a comparable squad.

Spending money doesn’t guarantee you win things - of course. And it doesn’t stop occasional cup wins by the likes of Palace (and us 30 years ago). But it is a huge advantage over modest or non spenders.

We should never have been in 4th on paper and certainly wouldn't finish 4th place with the points total we had in 2005. This was demonstrated by the fact that we 'never got 4th again' despite doing better in forthcoming seasons, while simultaneously going 'backwards', due to Moyes being shit.

Question: How do you think we should have built upon already having a 'well-balanced team' so as to take advantage of the 'pivotal moment' in the club's history that the summer of 2005 represented?

Should we just have got a better version of certain players already in the team instead of bringing a completely different type of player in?

Or was trying to build a more progressive side worthy of being in the Champions League and upper end of the Premier League on a regular basis the right strategy, if poorly executed?

Which manager can bring success to Everton with the budget that is below Brighton? Forest?

Every club has fans that want success. That’s a given.

To gain success in England on a consistent basis you need a wage bill of 500 plus million.

Ours is 156m

Players win football matches, not managers

If you think Everton are winning trophies anytime soon you will be disappointed with whoever is the manager.

Heck, we even build the stadium too small

Is it Moyes who is dithering, or is it that TFG, are dallying?

My money is on the latter, because I think David Moyes, is a totally different manager, to the one who got completely over excited when he got the Manchester United job.

Moyes has been calling for more players for the last few weeks now.for one very big reason. His squad is underprepared.

People will say that this shouldn’t affect the players who are already here. Hopefully it doesn’t but we already know how it works in football, if things start badly, especially when the squad isn’t quite prepared.

How does that make any sense? He can't persuade players just because we want them.

This thread is ridiculous. How anyone can blame Moyes for our inability to sign the players YOU WANT is off the scale bananas.

Well, back on subject, as this is a match preview thread. We have a match tonight.

Team selection is going to be interesting. Striker is straight forward. Beto or Barry, with them being swapped at some point in the 2nd half.

Depending on Mykolenko, defence may dictate the formation. Three at the back or a make-shift back four?

That in itself will dictate the midfield setup, although the manager has a relative luxury of choices there with Ndiaye, Alcaraz, Dewsbury-Hall, Grealish, McNeil, Gana and Garner (if not playing right back). Then Iroegbunham and Armstrong in reserve.

We have enough to beat Leeds if we go in with the right attitude. Yes, they are going to come at us like an out of speed runaway train, but if we keep our heads, we can use that to our advantage.

Game one of 38. Here's to a point or 3.

PS: I keep hearing that it will take a 3 - 5 year plan, yet above, TFG are labelled as horrendous, useless and tight owners barely 8 months in?? Despite the understandable impatience, mine included, time will tell and it doesn't have to take 3-5 years.

We've spent less than Sunderland?

Our biggest signing is €15m less than Brentford’s?

Transfermarkt (independent) says we have gone from the 17th squad and improved it to 15th.

And you see that as backing the manager?

"Jarrad [Branthwaite] picked up an injury in training so unfortunately we are going to miss him. These things happen. We may have [Mykolenko, Patterson and Armstrong available].

"You all need to turn up to find out [if Grealish will start]! I think Jack can play in several positions – he can play as a midfield player as well. He doesn't give the ball away very often. My aim is to get Jack in positions where he can be creative for us, score and assist goals."

Everton Predicted XI: Pickford; O'Brien, Tarkowski, Keane, Mykolenko; Gueye, Dewsbury-Hall; McNeil, Grealish, Ndiaye; Barry
Everton Predicted XI: Travers (GK), Coleman (DEF), Patterson (DEF), Aznou (DEF), Iroegbunam (MID), Garner (MID), Alcaraz (MID), Beto (FWD), Chermiti (FWD).

The worry about our right side remains, there has been little quality there for years.

Top players will always choose European qualified clubs in the EPL over us, all things being equal, and there are lots of them this year. But we still play in the world's richest and most watched league by far, indeed are still roughly in top 25 richest clubs in the world, so surely in the vast pool of global talent, there must be some gems who would give their eye teeth to play for us.

Right backs and wide right players especially welcome to apply...

We know he is no Branthwaite and has had some stinkers over the years, but not been too bad under Moyes, I think he will do a job tonight, just need our strikers to hit the ground running.

Big deal

Les, for me it’s not so much Keane playing, more Branthwaite not playing that’s the worry, such is the positive effect that guy has on the team as a whole.

I’ve got a feeling we are going to start with a win.

We have only spent £68 million was because our biggest transfer investment was planned for Dibling. That deal was gone wrong for the CEO and TFG. If the club identified Dibling as their main target, it should have done its due diligence better. A delta of £15 million between valuations shows we either seriously misjudged Soton or thought we could bid low and succeed.

We’ve been on the backfoot ever since as other targets were advanced in discussions with other clubs. Hopefully they get him as it will derail our summer plans if we don’t.

The most unforgiveable omission is a right back signing. Tete signed a new deal with Fulham on 1st July - 7 weeks ago. Now we might deprioritise right back… until when? Perhaps 2027 to commemorate a decade since Seamus suffered a double-leg fracture and kicked-started the search.

Given their wage budget is tiny, about one sixth of ours, I'm not surprised.

But they did manage to beat Atletico yesterday...

We've got enough flair and talent in our team to batter Leeds.

Everyone needs to settle down. If we overpaid for the wrong RW or RB, or brought in the wrong couple of £15-20 million players — say, another Garner instead of another Ndiaye — and if we made it difficult to progress in future years because we threw around money we can’t spend due to PSR, the same naysayers would be claiming TFG are just an extension of the Moshiri years.

If in 2 weeks, we have no new RW, no new RB and no cover for Gana, we can all agree the window has been a failure. Until then, the hate directed at Moyes, Kinnear and TFG is wildly misplaced, especially because we have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes. And given that KDH and Grealish, Alcaraz and hopefully Barry will help produce the goals we’ve sorely been lacking.

I think Robert is being disingenuous when he speaks about what Brighton and Ipswich have spent one season when using them again despite knowing full well why they were able to so.

We replaced Doucoure with Grealish (£12 million loan) and Charly, we replaced Mangala with KDH (clearly a Moyes signing), we replaced Moyes 2nd choice left back with a promising second choice left back and replaced DCL with Barry.

Clearly TFG were trying extensively for a right winger and another central midfielder which we only need because Moyes chose KDH who might not be as effective in a two. The right backs linked seem to be cheaper options because Moyes is happy with OBrien there.

For this stage of the transfer window TFG have done reasonably well and I was one of their biggest critics prior to this window. They have not done what I would like them to do but in terms of the manager they have only failed him in terms of the right wing position and I think they were handicapped by Moyes imo or this may also already have been delivered.

There is no doubt that TFG will make 2 significant purchases ( a right winger and a defensive midfielder) before the window closes and we will have at least 2 loans or minimal fees for other areas we lack depth.

The window closes in a couple of weeks and then we can judge them fairly. I suspect those crying poverty will be unable to do so.

On a separate point one poster mentioned Moyes did as well at United than his successors. What a strange statement.

Let’s wait and see what the final two weeks bring, is what I keep hearing, but even if we finish the window with a few more players with genuine talent, I will still be very disappointed with the squad that has started this season.

TFG, have got a lot in common with a few of our previous owners when it comes to seeing Everton, so underprepared for the start of another new season, imo.

I will give them a little bit of grace, the first one is free and all that, but if I’m being honest I haven’t been impressed by our new owners so far, but like Danny says, let’s concentrate on the game tonight and see what type of performance we give🤞

But what's worse is my worry for the coming weekend. Brighton at home, our first competitive game at our wonderful new stadium, I'm already nervous.

Please TFG, can we get some much needed quality into our defense early next week.

But I agree that our squad is weak and unbalanced.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Geez, Liam, at least try for SOME semblance of accuracy.

Tony #210, were you genuinely expecting that all the squad problems that have built up over years would be resolved in one window?

Conor #209, I generally share your perspective, although I slightly differ in two areas. First, it isn't TFG that is looking for players, it's the guys they hired, Kinnear and Moyes. It's TFG's job to write the checks. To this point I have seen zero indication that they have failed to back their people.

And second, I think it's highly likely at this point that the needs at RB and RW will be filled not with buys but with loans. I doubt Moyes will buy players he's not wildly enthused about, and buying the wrong guys would be a much bigger mistake than not buying at all. We have several loan spaces still open, correct?

"The Friedkin Group is a privately held consortium of businesses and investments representing the passions of Chairman and CEO Dan Friedkin and his family. With each adventure and every pursuit of excellence, we inspire joy and purpose, creating timeless memories with precision and care. That’s our commitment to make every day more extraordinary than the last."

They're not here to win the Champions League. They'll invest the minimum needed to ensure PL survival and cream the rest off the top.

Andrew, they don't collect investments. They build and accumulate their own businesses. They don't gamble on other people's. I'd call them a conglomerate, but consortium is a good word too.

And on none of their other businesses have they ever invested just enough to "ensure survival." Friedkin's movies are top-end. You see them at the Oscars and Cannes. His resort company, Auberge, is high-end properties. And his conservation holdings in East Africa constitute millions of acres.

I"ll rephrase - "What were people expecting from US capitalists? A massive spending spree? Don't think that was ever going to happen'

I've never quite understood why we expect owners to pump loads of money in. They rarely do and its not really in their interest.

I have zero expectation that they have ambitions of turning us into PSG, but they will not settle for bare survival either. Roma have been 7, 6, 6, 6 and 5th in Serie A and they're in the Europa League every year, runnerup once. That level of performance would be a massive improvement for us.

On point 1 I agree with you but the debate was that they had only spent £68 million so that's why I used TFG loosely. I suspect the only input they had would have been on Grealish as like at Roma they wanted a marquee signing. They would have trusted the hired hands to identify that Marquee signing though.

On point 2 I am sure you are wrong. I still think we will get Dibling as Southampton know they have to sell but want as much as they can. With no bidding war they will be forced to lower their sell on clause. We have bid for no one since despite reported targets falling by the wayside. Their price seemed to go up after our first bid, so I expect it to come down before the close of the window if no other bidders.

Tony I disagree with you that Moyes inherited a weaker squad. No doubt he did a far better job than Potter but I would have only wanted Pacqueta, Kudus and Bowen for our first eleven. I would prefer OBrien to Wan Bassaka due to goal threat as they are equal on other facets of their game.

We were inferior in attack but Potter inherited a dysfunctional spine of the team. With no pace or athleticism at the back or in central midfield meant whoever he chose they were still easy to play against as they would always get overrun.

The situation at Roma was different though. Roma were already in the top half/top 6 regularly before they came in. Also, it's much more difficult to break into the Top 6 in the PL.

I don't expect miracles. In fact I don't expect anything tbh. It's the hope that kills you.

Conor #223, hope you are right about Dibling, and/or about one of the other rumoured signings coming true (Bissouma, Florentino), but I still expect us to fill all our available loan slots.

It’s why I said that the first one is free, but they still haven’t inspired me with that much confidence Mike.

Football is a brutal industry, one in which a fool and his money can easily be parted, and I think the way TFG, purchased both Everton and Roma, shows that they are definitely not stupid.

Robert, has given plenty of examples of why £68 million is absolute peanuts for a premier league football club, these days, and whilst I agree that it’s better to wait, or take players on loan, rather than sign players that the manager might not be wildly enthusiastic about, (no more panic buys like Maupay) I still think we should have been further down the line with numbers.

I have found you a little bit overprotective of your fellow countrymen, Mike, especially saying things like £70 million is tip money, to them mate, (a separate debate) but hopefully you’re proved right, and we are slowly on the way back to becoming a top level professional football club, once again.

I often say that the biggest word in the dictionary is contradiction, and because I agree with some of the things TFG, are doing, I am just not sure if some of the other things that I am witnessing, will bring about the best results. Only time will tell🤞

I don’t specifically think that Moyes inherited a poor squad, because with Brainthwaite fit, I had us down as a mid table team, which meant I felt we were underachieving under Dyche, but when you look at how many players we lost at the end of last season, I do think Moyes was left with a very threadbare squad.

I’m intrigued by your opinion of Potter, Conor, because I don’t think he’s got a strong enough personality for any of the bigger clubs. We will see

Our completed transfers have been relatively easy to do. Bourmouth didn't want Travers, City didn't want Grealish and with a young family he needed Everton. Chelsea didn't want KDH, Charly had his price predetermined.

Only Anzou and Barry were difficult but both players insisted on moving and so the selling clubs felt they had no option and we were able to negotiate good fees.

No doubt with the likes of Dibling and central midfield the players will want to come but the selling clubs will believe they can get more. Therefore the club will have to play hard ball close to the window to get the deals done.

Loan signings will also only come late once players will be made available at their clubs after they have finished their incomings.

That's why I think TFG have done reasonably well to get as many as they have and we're it not for Jarrads injury (perhaps rushed back by Moyes?) we would be in better shape than most on this 1st weekend

Tony I agree with you about Potter he's a decent mid table manager but he has already blooded the likes of Potts, Irving and Scarlet (like Armstrong) so he chose West Ham because he believed he would get time to build there. I agree he hasn't the charisma to manage a big club but he is not the joke he is made out