Leeds United vs Everton Player Ratings - Awful game from Beto & Co

It's an all too familiar feeling. I'm very concerned that things could get ugly in a hurry if the team continue to perform like that.

Our performance was truly dire, one of the worst I've ever seen. Certainly the worst first half I've even seen (55 plus years of watching). We have no pace, hardly any guile, no real goal threat, no right side attacking threat, players playing out of position, zero creativity in midfield. God help us against Brighton. Dire, dire, dire

But to lose to that, an awful decision by a referee who didn't see it and var who didn't over turn it. Atrocious!

If that is a penalty within the laws of the game then defenders would need to start chopping off arms not to give away penalties.
I no longer pretend to know the rules apart from if they can find a way to hurt Everton, they do.
Simplify it, ball to arm = penalty, no matter what. We will all have to accept it.
As for our next game, my fears are about to become reality. 0-3 Brighton.

Before the match Neville referred to Moyes as Everton's star player. Carragher nodding away.

Was he coming out with this shit when he was ruining Utd?

The worse of a bad bunch in my opinion were Ndiaye, Hall and Alcaraz. They provided no physical presence, no support for the defenders and no support for the attackers. The 3 of them where shite.

O'Brien didn't struggle against gnonto, far from it. Likewise Garner with James.

We defended well, Gana and Tim put the hard work in defensively.

We got out fought and relied on the fence yet again to bale us out.

Pickford 6 not much to do
Obrien 6 did well defensively but nothing going forward
Garner 7 kept James quiet and tried to play forward
Tarkowski 6 Other than the pen a solid game
Keane 6 solid game
Gana 6 usual destroyer
Tim 6 defensively strong
Hall 4 too light weight
Alcaraz 4 had our only shot on goal and an assist for their pen!
Ndiaye 4 totally ineffective
Beto 5 Tried hard but had absolutely no service.

They were basically much better than us, even though they looked below EPL quality. What is worrying is what does that make us? Brighton may be about to tell us.

It sounds like a poor performance overall but to give Pickford a 5 when he only conceded a non-existent penalty is very harsh.

One team wanted to win and one team were clueless.

I still can't believe we have wasted a summer not signing a proper full back with a right foot and we are actually starting the season with a striker who for most of last season played second fiddle to the man who wouldn't sign a contract and we all wanted gone.

Barry isn't ready? Well then we need another striker don't we?

Beto people may say he didn't get service but watch his game, everything bounces off him, it's a strikers duty to hold that ball up and alleviate pressure by winning free kicks or bringing teammates higher up the pitch, he can't do that, he's not technically accomplished enough.

The Friedkin Group are underperforming so far in my opinion.

We've wasted too much time this summer on transfers that they won't meet valuations of and not pursued the areas we desperately need.

We've still got absolutely zero pace in this side.

How we can start the season with James Garner left back is beyond reasoning.
Ok Mykolenko is injured but that may well happen again often as the season progresses.
Back up plan?

It's easy to say sack Moyes in two weeks, and bring who in?

Can't see any reasonable name joining us, would Oliver Glasner leave Palace?
I doubt it.

I think a fundamental problem is the lack of pace and fragility of Keane at the back. Our defense sits very deep to compensate for him, and our midfield consequently plays deeper as well which invites the opposition to press and dispossess us. We inevitably end up playing everyone back and simply chase the opposition around our own half.

I know everyone on here loves Gana, but he exasperates me. Four out of five of his passes are always backwards, and usually back to the same player. He occasionally delivers a useful ball forward and I wonder why he doesn't back himself to drive forward more often, although his control isn't great and his shooting woeful. But Iroegbunam was gash tonight and these two players are the substance of our midfield who we need to boss the game. We'll only be chasing the opposition in most games unless we can get better midfield generals.

Ndiaye tried hard and looks to create something most times, but we were trying to create from far too deep. I'm not a fan of Beto but I actually don't blame him for our performance tonight. But maybe why we keep stopping our attacks from midfield (and passing it backwards all the time) is because there isn't anything up front to aim for?

But he's still got a fair few players who lack genuine quality, and consequently confidence, when on the ball. So, it's his job to organise formations and energetic pass and move patterns to create more space and time for his midfielders to pick an attacking pass. But that's not happening.

Too often our midfield is static and slow and all too often we stop and pass backwards to defenders who then pass it around a bit and then back to Pickford. It really is tedious and boring.

It's up to the manager to infuse some energy and tempo to the players and their formations, but I've noticed over the years that a lot of our new players start off with lots of energy and purpose, but they too inevitably slip into the boring Everton style of backwards passing after a while.

Maybe its the ongoing lack of pace and threat up front that has plagued us.

Makes me wonder if Anjush watched the game. Mostly neutral scores but then whipping boy Beto a 2? ToffeeWeb is falling to the level of the Red Echo with this kind of “article”

And so it proved to be.

Let's get back to basics and at least make sure we can put round pegs in round holes! Over to the recruitment team...

Moyes 2.0 is the same scared ditherer he always has been.

We need to get the cheque book out and get some power up front and in the wide areas. Why have we signed a kid who is as rough as they come and then start Beto up front on his own with no service and no support?

No full backs at all other than a center half filling in at right back and having to use Keane in a low block non attacking mode as he has no pace.

Optimism has already started to fade. A new ground won't keep us in the PL. Only decent players will do so, but we don't seem to have many of them right now.

We have now appointed a championship level recruiting team and look to be paying the price.

If that is the case, he'll have to do much better than yesterday if he's to stay for a further 12 months, equally he could turn around and say to TFG, thanks very much but i'm not working with this recruitment team and setup.

Will be an interesting to see how this pans out.

No shape, no plan, no style. I’m very concerned by that and fear another long and miserable season, hope we improve fast and get some decent signings in or it will be very ugly.

How depressing.

When the fixtures were announced pretty much everyone said "going to a promoted team on the first weekend is tough". Yet they're surprised that Leeds (who created zero) had some energy in front of their fans.

This is a side that has struggled in the league for years and has lost numbers since last season given loans were one of the few ways that the club could fill out the squad and still work within PSR issues. We're generally bringing in young players and we know there have been multiple bids for full backs and right midfielders. And the window is still open.

There's "nothing but the best" and then there's plain unreasonable expectations.

It wasn't a good performance, but with plenty of mitigating factors. And it certainly wasn't one of the worst performances that anyone on here has ever seen (as one poster claimed).

Settle in - even if we head in the right direction and make good progress, the next few years will be a bit frustrating.

Aside from that, as others are saying, starting Garner at left back wtf. We have had since June to sort what should be a defining season in a new stadium, and we start off with a shit show.

Moyes is frustrated, the fans are frustrated and the players looked like they were confused about what was being asked of them.

Some new players, but on the evidence of last nights bluster, it's more of the same from last season.

If we have to field that team vs that lot in a months time it could be double figures.

I work with two Leeds fans. Today will be shite.

How Tim gets the nod if fit is beyond me, he was a makeweight in the Lewis Dobbin move, yet seems to get played as a regular. Surely most fans could have picked a better eleven. I appreciate we have a depleted squad and poor recruitment thus far, but no excuses for a lacklustre turn-out like last night !

That's not a performance that would be helped by Dibling at RW or anyone else for that matter. None of our midfielders seemed able to find each other regularly or create much in the way of possession let alone chances. Alcaraz was patchy, Ndiaye was below his usual standard and it was an underwhelming debut from KDH. Beto had little but what did make its way to him seldom stuck.

The only positive is that we defended pretty well and limited Leeds to few genuine chances.

Moyes will no doubt blame lack of players and he has a point but even so he needs to set up that team better and find ways of getting up the pitch. If performance levels don't improve sharpish we will be bottom of the table before long. TFG fired Juric last season after just 12 matches. Moyes has a little more credit in the bank after good work last season but we know TFG aren't slow to pull the trigger if things aren't working.

But its early days and things can change quickly in football. A signing this week and a win against Brighton and Mansfield will have everyone feeling better. Work to be done.

Most of the players signed were young players. Some without Premier League experience. Moyes does not put Young inexperienced players into his selections.We were lucky to see Barry, but that was because Moyes was desperate.

Playing Iroegbunam of forward was never going to work ( not his proper position).I would have swapped his position with Dewsbury Hall's who is more of a play maker.Beto is not a target man he needs the ball played to run on to.Not one such ball did he get.Other forwards had no supply. Even Gana was being given the ball as if he was a playmaker such was the lack of awareness.

Moyes set up shop got it wrong in his selection and the players, particularly in midfield were not coached to any coherent plan geared to their strengths.

Moyes was avoiding a West Ham result, but he got what he deserved.TFG want young players developed for first team selection.What is the use of having staff and facilities costing millions and not doing that.Thst is now the problem at Everton.

Moyes in one step up from a relegation Manager and they want seasoned Professionals ,not youth.TFG want to build the Club and want the team developed and youth to be very much part of that.The average age of the Squad has decreased by 4 days from last years squad.Moyes has to develop young into the first team if he wants to keep his job

After the previous season ending on a high note this felt like we were back to square one. That was a combination of the worst of Benitez/Lampard/Dyche. In fact, it was worse than Dycheball and that’s saying something.

There was no organisation. No fight. No urge to win. It was flat, listless and lifeless. No leaders on or off the pitch. Eleven individuals who look like they’d never played together before. Words fail me.

I didn’t want Moyes back. I hoped he’d be replaced, and thanked, at the end of last season by a manager with imagination and ambition. Moyes looked like a clueless old man last night with his arms folded. He looked quite sad tbh.

The season has just begun so no reason to panic. Let’s see if TFG get their fingers out of their arses and get the 3-4 quality players we need. We can’t afford to give Moyes the excuse of not having enough players, even though he might bench them or leave them out all together.

Handball is always a tricky call. Surely there should be some intent involved? That wouldn’t have been given against City (as we’ve seen) or Liverpool.

There is very little difference in quality between the two sides player for player, that is true. But Moyes handed the initiative to Leeds.

We are a squad with no width and no pace - with very little quality on the ball.

I’ve been working on the assumption key signings will be made this week and next - as TFG hunt out value from an overheated market.

Let’s hope we have at least two new First XI quality players coming in. Let’s also hope TFG recognise that they’re going to have to play north of £40m sometimes for a player - just as the likes of Brentford do.

Leeds looked fitter and more aggressive. In midfield and attack we looked woeful, Tim and Beto were passengers but the others were nothing to shout about. No understanding or partnerships between players, slow and wasteful with the ball and a complete lack of movement attacking.

Elland Road was rocking at the end and no wonder. Much work to be done, started with only one new player, first team quality additions needed.

Beto couldn't hold the ball up. He's going to need to up his game, because if defenders have worked out to stop the goal scoring, the big man and us are in trouble.

We had no pace on the wide areas. Only Ndiaye could try and jink his way through.

Alcaraz isn't a right winger. He's a passenger in that position.

We lacked midfield quality. Dwh proved my point on being light weight, and Gana is not someone you want on the ball, creating or taking chances. I love him, but that's not his game.

The defence lacks pace, and had no choice but to start deep against a partisan crowd where the pressure was on first half. Despite the general shitness, Leeds had created little against our unique brand of anti football.

Second half they were pretty much in control of the ball. Players had moved 10-15 yards further, but the creativity was lacking. Some of that is lads in possession, but much is the lack of movement with players resembling over 60s walking football.

I don't know whst they do at finch farm. But training against the opposition press is a mess. We just can't cope on keeping the ball over 2 passes. It resembles something from under 10s. It's why we struggle when the onus is on us.

The game came down to a risky pass into alcaraz from pickford. Rather than play it to a centre back, he's tried to turn and slipped. Leeds create some chances, which ultimately falls to a deflected shot that hits Tarkowski in the arm as he moves into the ball. I thought it was harsh, but it was risk he probably didnt need to take with a strike to the middle of the goal. Tarkowski being rash in the heat of the moment. Yes, he's tried I get that, but thats the game done.

Where's it leave us. Injured players are needed back and quickly. We need a right back option, a central midfielder that's got size and is decent on the ball, and we need some quick width. We also should consider an experienced striker. If beto is a busted flush, then you'll need an alternative.

I do fear a poor start with better fixtures. We cant be 10 games in and rooted to the bottom. The turnover of players has left them short, but this was known in April. Everyone, and I mean everyone needs to pull their finger out. Its not a blame game in individuals, its sorting it out definitively now.

Sunday awaits.

We may have a shinny new stadium but at present we certainly don't have a squad of players to grace it and sadly the Manager last night simply highlighted the problem with his team selection and ' game plan '.

David Moyes - 4

TFG - 3

Angus Kinnear - 1

Here was me suggesting last week that this might be Moyes 2.0 - that was Moyes 1.0. The ratings for TFG and Kinnear show they must shoulder blame, but his selection and tactics did not go well.

Can any team play without fullbacks?

What was the manager thinking?

OK it may be that we have injuries and therefore a difficult selection, but how has that come about, our lack of quality full backs and striker are astonishing.

But it was nevertheless less the managers job to set us up in a cohesive way, so that we could function, but what Davey served up was a disjointed travesty.

The dissatisfaction amongst the players was palpable, the shape was pulled out at will by Leeds, they turned us over and over, and not one tactical change first half, the most torrid time for team and fans alike.

We came out second half unchanged with half an idea but could just not get going.

Down to Moyes this one, will he learn? I don't think so, he will moan.

The next 2 weeks are crucial to the season, and we just should not be in this position yet again, but here we bloody well are ffs

From the off the team selection was poor. Such a negative approach to the game and it was just head shakingly embarrassing for the first half.

We can go on and on about how the defence defended well, this is also the problem, not once did one of them run into space and deliver a pass. Passes along the back and then back to Pickford putting him under pressure.

Midfield non-existent and it’s hard to know who to blame but the defence didn’t even give them the ball. Any time we did get out wide, we refused to cross, usually ending up with a back pass to the defence and then on to a Pickford hoof.

We should have started with a back 3 and Garner and Ndiaye as wing backs. Filled the midfield with Grealsih as number 10 and two up front, this was Leeds after all. We got totally outplayed by an average side and if it doesn’t change soon we will be counting points by Christmas.

Dont get me started on Beto but then if you don’t give him the ball then what can you expect?

I felt sorry for the players at times, especially the midfield but at the same time we don't help ourselves, why do we ping balls into players in midfield when they are surrounded, long diagonals under no pressure at someone's head or out of play, back to Pickford to give it away for a 50/50, or even the easiest of passes are simply to the wrong foot or behind the player - Leeds pounced on them all.

It seemed to me that the defense were too low, so far apart from the midfield and we were hiding, mainly due to the reasons above, Leeds were winning everything in there and as soon as they did they could break with all the space to run into. There was no out ball up front which we all could see from Beto but also midfield.

We'd have been better playing on the counter and being solid instead of whatever set up that was, 3 in midfield but all too high pressing and nowhere to be seen.

Very very worrying performance, and with a lack of pace in the squad and his lack of faith of the players on the bench this season could be a struggle.

Shout out to O'Brien and Garner, not their best game but they gave 100% and fought for everything given the circumstances.

I say sell Beto his touch is not good enough, get an experienced striker in on loan, Dibling pay the money, Zinchenko and Brownhill for squad depth and experience and pray that gets us going until we can target some proper pace in the squad.

He has seen enough of Beto to know he is not the answer so plays him?

Not having buckets of money to spend but spunks 6 mill on yet another back-up keeper?

Buys another centre half for the future, the way he is setting us up we may not have one!

Burnley suddenly checking their calendar to see when they play us.

TFG tbh are providing for both clubs, it just seems that the Italians are looking to go forward, we are looking for nothing that we need.

I was fortunate to get tickets for all of the new stadium games but unfortunate that due to ill health did not make it to any so my first trip is this weekend were unless a miracle happens we will be further embarrassed on worldwide TV.

That disadvantages Moyes (who got his excuses in public and early) but Moyes made heavy weather of this game by over complicating the formation etc. I think the performance is largely on him.

We know that Beto, Gueye and others can be effective but they are limited footballers.

I think the game also shows it isn’t straightforward to accommodate all (or even 3 of) of Grealish, Alcaraz, KDH and Ndiaye in the same side. These guys need pace and movement from the full back positions and wing forward,

Sadly, we would have been better with Doucoure last night.

Lot's of players that can't play together.

This is only resolved if we bring in pace and athleticism down the flanks - otherwise we will be far too slow and narrow (ie easy to defend against).

McNeill must have been caught sleeping with his missus or something.

For you to come on this morning and come out with your usual nonsense about money spent is really infuriating. We need to spend like Brentford? You what?

The same Brentford who lost Mbuemo their best player for nearly £70million and replaced him with a £42 million player. The same Brentford who lost their leader and heartbeat of the side for a pittance and replaced him with a free transfer who is on his Zimmer frame. The same Brentford whose only other player with any class is waiting for his move to Newcastle and has spat his dummy out.

I'm glad your not a Brentford fan as their supporters would have to listen about net spends and championship players yada yada yada.

You know we have kept Branthwaite, signed 6 players already one of which went for £100 million not long ago and is costing us approximately £12 million for the season. By the end of this window we may have spent £150 million net. I wonder what you will harp on about then?

The preseason has been a shambles on and off the pitch and will result in a poor start to the season that will put the team on the back foot from then on.

I agree Moyes ballsed up.

I hope TFG now spend money to improve the squad.

Controversial?

I know we have lost 2 of our regular defenders but it was in attack were there were no injuries is were we struggled. When Moyes came back he made us press high up the pitch, sadly I haven't seen any press in the pre season or last night. We seem very disjointed, the front 3 are 20 yards apart and the attacking midfield are 10 yards adrift of the front 3. We have no pace up front or in midfield so no out ball there. It seemed we set out to pack the defence and limit their chances, but we had no attacking intent at all and only when we went a goal behind with 5 minutes left did that change.

We have struggled all pre season to create many chances and have shots on goal they were as rare as hens teeth, and again last night created next to nothing and had very little shots on or off target. We need to add some pace to this team otherwise we might struggle again this season.

I think our negativity showed just 2 passes before Pickford made that risky pass that ended up with their penalty shout, we had the ball in the centre circle on their side of the pitch, and I think it was tarks was under no pressure and should of looked for an attacking pass with only 6 minutes left to play, instead he plays it 5 yards back to Keane who played it straight back to Pickford. Had we played the ball forward the ref wouldnt have had to make a decision whether it was a penalty or not. I have lost track of the amount of times we have the ball 4 or 5 yards in the opponants half only for us in a couple of passes for it to be back with Pickford.

I wasn't sold on him before last night but we could really do with a scrapper like John McGinn right now.

Refused to put the ball in the danger area. Just passed the ball around on the edge until the whistle blew for half-time.
Pathetic.

I'm expecting a different mindset against Brighton or we are in big trouble.

There isn't much time to ponder over an opening day defeat. The dust will settle, but a lot of looking in the mirror and soul searching is required quickly before Sunday.

Nothing that a win against Brighton can't help lift the mood.

With any luck, TFG may now put their hands deeper into their pockets after last night's debacle.

I'm not entirely absolving Moyes from blame though. That was a terrible line up. Even I'm beginning to now wonder if there's some disconnect going on behind the scenes at Everton.

I don't think there's any point to the press when we are playing so deep (forced on us if we are playing Keane)?

We played with a patched up team on day one. Shit for everyone, and while we were better in the second half, the balance was all wrong as everyone could see.

Garner did his best but he's quite obviously not a left back - fair play to him though, I thought he was our best player under a lot of pressure.

Gana had a shocker, Alcaraz was chasing shadows and looked out of place on the right. It was all square pegs in round holes (again) and we looked like Dyche was still in charge.

It will get better and we will play better - once we get Branthwaite and Myko back we'll have some balance at the back. That'll help the midfield out, and hopefully we'll stop punting the back to the opposition all the time.

There were countless times we were up near their box in possession or with a throw in, and invariably the ball ended up back at the feet of Pickford who either punting it back to Leeds, or gave it to a defender to punt it back to Leeds.

Gana needs to stop trying long balls when we have the ball, and I hope Grealish has a stern word with all of them about how to keep possession.

We have no patience with the ball - if you've got it and there's nowhere to go, just keep it, don't lob it forward with no purpose just because you can't see an opening.

We need to learn to take care of the ball.

Allegedly Southampton wanted £40 million for Dibling. Our manager comes out with our desperation for players and no one wants to join and suddenly £43 million is nowhere near enough.

Last night was clear that we needed a midfielder where games are won and lost. Moyes wanted KDH. He starts as a 10 where we are packed full of them and moves KDH to midfield and suddenly Stach begins to have a field day and is responsible for the goal and could have had 2 more despite not being a threat when Tim was there.

Moyes is happy with OBrien as a right back. Of the ones we are linked with I doubt any would be a huge upgrade on Garner in that position.

We were without Branthwaite. Why? Because Moyes knew he wasn't fit leaving him out for US but rushed him back for the start of the season.

He wanted Grealish and we got him.

The managers job is to manage. If you don't have widemen then don't play with wingers. If you have doubts with the defensive midfield then limit this frailty by playing a back three when you have 3 experienced centre halves already on the pitch. If you need goals put your most likely goalscorer Ndiaye up close to your second most likely goalscorer Beto.

TFG aren't miracle workers. They got rid of all the dead wood everyone wanted. They kept our best players. They have replaced all the players Moyes wanted replacing except for a right winger. We still have 3 or 4 bodies to come in so you would hope it will soon be balanced.

Is it TFG's fault we looked like a Dyche team only without the organisation and couldn't put two passes together all preseason and last night?

Played the same as last night, try not to get beat.

I'd be interested to hear what Tony Abrahams - who has played the game at a much higher level than me - thinks of this idea.

Not the answer under this manager.

Why do we keep buying strikers that are not obviously good enough to go straight into the first team? Chermiti was one for the future, now it's Barry.

We've also added a left back who doesn't play even when we have no other left back.

Dibling will not have the immediate impact we desperately need, potential at that price is a luxury we cannot afford.

He wouldn't have helped us last night and if we sign him we will have to be patient with him, but should he sign he will instantly become the best attacking player we have and I include Jack Grealish in that.

He is a special talent and I suspect TFG will sign someone on loan in that position who will rival him in the short term, someone with pace and different characteristics more akin to a natural wide player, who will be ready to go from the off.

We'll have better balance and Grealish will get them passing the ball about at the right end.

Things will improve.

Forget success, forget European football… we are there for the time being and as long as we are seen as a big enough for Premier League status.

When that perception ends, we will be going down the leagues. Bye bye, Everton!

Yes, things will get better.

The number of posters criticising the selection of an out of position player at left back and the benching of Grealish is incredible. Our left back got injured last week and Grealish signed a few days ago without any pre-season. Both decisions were completely expected (albeit you could interchange your personal choice for left back).

That won't always be the case.

We didn't look great, but I watched a lot of football this weekend and it was a common theme. Games were patchy and scruffy as the players get back into things.

People need to calm down. It's reasonable to be disappointed in the performance and the result, but if you weren't livid on Sunday, then there's very little reason to be livid on Monday.

By that time of course the window will be well shut and the transfer business done. That will be a better time to judge the business done by Moyes and Kinnear, which at the moment is looking worryingly second rate.

I can guarantee we will improve and get better than that first half performance—I’d say it would be bleedin’ impossible to play any worse than that. Mind you——-that just might be wishful thinking on my part.

We seem to be chasing everything. Sorry but Chermiti, Barry and Beto will be lucky to score double figures between the 3 of them. And what's worse – none of them can hold onto the ball while back up comes, usually they loose the ball which then puts the supporting players out of position.

I really like Grealish and Ndiaye playing wide; we just need a decent striker.

Rusty
Under prepared
Players injured
Lacking in numbers
Negative sounding manager
New signings not ready

Same every f*****g season. We don't hit the ground running, we always land on our face. We surrender our first 5-6 matches getting up to speed whilst others are sprinting. As a club we are at times pathetic.

Good to see the old David Moyes back, angry and spouting negativity out of every pore. The dour Dave days are truly back.

Likewise, I thought we might bring Armstrong on for Iroegbunam to play alongside Gana. He may only be 18, but he's not shy on putting his foot on the ball and looking for a pass.

I see no reason why Aznou didn't feature unless it was a late injury or the manager just didn't fancy him starting or not even being in the squad?

As for Dibling, I think that saga will rumble on. Personally, I don't agree with meeting the asking price, otherwise the selling club dictates. The reported £45m is a decent price for a 19 year old with potential, so I don't think Everton should budge if Southampton are haggling over a further £5m.

I think a good RW is not as useful if you don't have any control around the middle of the park. I wonder if the dire performance last night will see the transfer committee re-evaluate the priorities?

I rest my case!

Wake up Moyse!!!!!!!

I was at the game and it was obvious from the start that the formation wasn't working. Moyes did lots of shouting from the touchline but did nothing to change the set up.

Changes should have been made at half time but the first of just two subs, was made in the 73rd minute.

It's just not good enough and the whole club, from top to bottom, needs to get its finger out.

The back 4 did OK
The 5 in midfield starting from left to right should have been:-
Ndiaye, Grealish, Gueye, Dewsbury-Hall, McNeill
Beto up top.

Grealish should have started - if he tired he could have taken him off after 60.

They were 11/8 to win we were 9/4 thet tells you what neutrals thought before the kick off, thats how it played out.

It was their first game back in the Prem. in front of their mad supporters, plus our team was badly affected by injuries to our defence.

I'm not that suprised we lost the game but it should never have been a penalty, where has common sense gone. He has gone to chest it and its hit his upper arm, he's not deliberately stuck his arm out. There will be plenty of teams struggle at Leeds this season.

There's no doubt we do need some quality reinforcements and the injured players back, when we do we will be much better.

The other way was to use McNeil and Garner as wing backs.

Either way McNeil helps to avoid too many square pegs in round holes.

Do we know if McNeil is match fit or not?

Moyes seems to have over-complicated things by excluding him.

Things will improve but we nearly got a draw with a patched up team

Irogebeum at right back. He is not good enough to play in his preferred position in midfield. Therefore, he is certainly not going to be good enough to play full back.

Why is Patterson still at the club, he has been overlooked by a number of managers? He isn't the replacement for Coleman. We haven't had a decent right back since Seamus had his awful injury a number of years ago. That is shameful.

Calvert Lewin leaves, we all knew he was going. Our main striker is now the guy who was his back up.

Just a few examples of the total lack of planning and organisation that still haunts Everton Football Club off the pitch.

The recruitment and scouting is a shambles.

There was never a plan to win the match, this was a plan to avoid defeat and that is the Moyes way.

More concerning was how much fitter Leeds looked than us. This could be a very bad season when it should be a new start.

Every other manager knows how Moyes will play, no surprises and no innovation.

We got out-worked in the first half and then after we had rode the storm and looked the more likely team in the second, we never really had the craft, desire or inclination, to go and really try and win the game.

We are all guilty of talking shite, but people saying Tarkowski should have just let the ball go past him, is naive at best, or just plain ridiculous imo.

What are you doing trying to block deflected shots in your six yard box Jimmy lad? Just get out the way and leave it to your fuckin keeper, you soft twat🤦‍♂️

Calvert-Lewin
Onyekuru
Cenk Tosun
Moise Kean
Joshua King
Rondon
Maupay
Chermiti
Beto
Broja (loan)
Barry

Is there 1 CF there who set our pulse racing? 1 striker who went on to become a legend? Or at least at the level of Watkins, Mbuemo, Wissa, Chris Wood? Not one. The last good striker that wore an Everton shirt was Lukaku. Moyes needs to pull off a coup to get someone in like that. Move heaven and earth, wheel & deal, make some sacrifices in other positions but get in a half decent CF, and we might end up with a half decent season. Otherwise, another year of struggle beckons. (I don't want to write Barry and Chermiti off yet, I hope they come good).

I suppose Garner and McNeill, could both play wingback, but I believe it’s more of a specialist Position, and that’s why I would have preferred us to play closer together in a 4-5-1 system.

I have never really liked 3-5-2, Mike, but every system should be all about trying to get the most out of the players in your squad, and this definitely never happened last night, unfortunately.

James@83, final sentence, amongst other things this is what top level football should always be about, and even when we do take care of the ball, it is very rare that it’s done with conviction🤷‍♂️unfortunately mate.

It highlights what state our squad is in, he was bought as a back up for Branthwaite, I think.

Left-back and the lack of a right-sided midfielder the obvious Achilles Heel yesterday. We have a problem if Garner is the best cover for Mykolenko.

But even when he pays £36M for a new striker he's benched and classed as not ready.

Whilst players who are supposedly ready produce a performance against a newly promoted side thst was so bad my eyeballs are still hurting. A few months ago Leeds were in the championship and last night they murdered us all over the pitch from get go.

Simply dreadful. Has moyes ever had a team "ready" for a new season match 1??

The last time that evidence stood up was in 1564 when Albert Greybeard was hung, drawn and quartered for stealing a sheep in Oswaldtwistle.

Last season we were in the top 5 for defences under Moyes.

This involved Garner covering O'Brien and Ndiaye covering Mykolenko.

Yes Mylenko was injured but Moyes completely destroyed the right wing by not having Garner and Lindstron in front of O'Brien and subsequently most of the attacks started on the right. This caused Hall to pull back into defence to try and help Jake and Tim meaning, we had NO momentum in attack.

I think the aim was to get a point by staying deep and supporting the defence in the first half and try using breakaways to sneak 3 points in the 2nd half.

He reversed that decision in the 2nd half urging the players to move forward keep possession, this was working and then when Ndiaye was causing real havoc needing 4 players around him at times and starting to bond with garner he brings on Grealish moving Ndiaye to the right.

To compound that Tim who I though had the best game I have seen him play was fighting tooth and nail for the ball was subbed instead of Gueye.

Look back in every game that Gueye played last season under Moyes he was subbed by Tim because Gueye can no longer run for 90mins. In that game he just about stop running about the 88 minute his tank was empty.

I have quoted in past posts that Moyes said we need a right full back and a right winger. To make things worst we now have three players whose best position is identical Ndiaye, Alcaraz and Grealish and I don't see any signs that they could work together.

With Hill Dickinson any manager may now have as much as £40 to £100M + rewards for finishing higher in cups and the league to spend every year.

So Moyes you choose and buy 2 quality players rather that 4 damp squids.

Buy wisely or get your CV ready for January explaining how you spent millions and produced such a diobolical showings.

Ajax, #127, that is a shocking list of strikers. Worth noting that Kean has gone on to have (as seemed likely) a very decent career away from chaotic Everton. Also worth noting that for 5 of the 8 years we were spending as though we’d been relegated - which hinders you a wee bit in the transfer market.

Dave # 126, yes O’Brien played poorly last night. And hopefully despite being a game performer there late last season (when critically Branthwaite was fit) he should not be considered a solution for RB. He’s a stop gap. We need a proper RB (or two).

What amazes me how some already make their mind up before the game and claim to be the voice of reason after while those who are legitimately angry with the tactical element are seen as hysterical. Well there are posters like Kevin Molloy who are big advocates of Moyes and judging from Kevin's posts he was annoyed and wasn't happy with the tactical set up (don't wish to speak for Kevin but that's the inference I get)

I wanted a 352 last night as I felt it best with the personnel available. Moyes doesn't like that system, no problem.

So we haven't got anyone wide right so he plays Charly who hasn't had one good game there. Yet the fella he plays on the left ahead of two other players, who have played there for large chunks of their career, plays for his country wide right and moreover he does it with aplomb.

Now with a dearth of wingers you don't think it's strange for those two on the bench, one gets a brief cameo while the other sat watching Coronation Street all night. Our most creative player and scorer of important and out of nothing goals during the bad years was nowhere to be seen when we needed those very traits.

Now the owners are to blame. They are doing their best with the finances they can afford with PSR and juggling the thin line of trying to make a squad competitive for the here and now with also one that is sustainable for the future. They will be judged on the 1st September like Mr Hammond asked.

We have an established centre forward (not of their doing) so they have complimented him with an exciting young striker who will hopefully usurp once he gets to grip with the league. We tried for Delap who was tried and tested in our price range, he chose elsewhere but at least we asked the question.

We have an established left back so we bought an exciting young player with the same mantra as before whom the giants Bayern Munich didn't want to let go.

We have quite a young midfield except for Gana so we have bought a Premier League quality midfielder and will most likely bring one more. The first is to provide the guille which we lack in midfield while the other is likely to be an energetic destroyer with nous.

We locked quality in the number ten role so we took one of the leagues most coveted players to fill the void and bought a young player to learn from and hopefully provide more energy and more goal threat when required.

TFG and the recruitment department have clearly been structured in their transfer strategy. They have a few pieces to go in central midfield, right back and especially wide right (maybe one buy, one loan). They have backed their manager and are going about their business in a very methodical, sustainable way.

Moyes like every other manager bar about six or seven clubs faced challenges this weekend. Moyes failed miserably to deal with those challenges and it is not unreasonable to say so.

My view is that we had a very fragile squad last season that Moyes managed to squeeze a number of unlikely victories out of. It was top-heavy with old players needing to be replaced, and also a big overhaul of the rest, just to stand still.

We lost three ever-presents from last season: Doucoure, Harrison and Young, and also Calvert-Lewin walked. At the moment, Dewsbury-Hall, Barry and Grealish are not providing the same service (no doubt that will change as we move forward).

So we've got a weaker squad in my view, plus injuries to crucial players like Branthwaite and Mykolenko. We had Keane playing, and no proper full-backs. So had to play deep all night.

On top of that, for whatever reason, we have Beto, McNeil and Alcaraz all out of form. To be fair to Moyes (as I like to be), he's been sounding an alarm now for months that we needed an overhaul to be ready for the new season. And the current recruitment is way short. And high risk.

We have critical needs, the whole right flank, and so have about five players playing out of position to compensate for the lack. It's farcical.

And whilst we've been 'driving hard bargains', half our targets have gone elsewhere, and other teams are now interested in our current ones (Palace).

I can't really get too excited about Moyes's part in last night, we were a few minutes away from an away draw, having banged in a load of square objects into round holes.

What really ticks me off is the new recruitment team. Moyes has gone public with his concerns, and they are still pissing around (like they know best). It's infuriating.

How on earth has that been allowed to happen?

1. Moyes ballsed up last night and he's been irritatingly getting his excuses in nice and early all through the last week or so. I think he's a good fit for the club but he's reminding us that he can drain the life out of things too.

2. Moyes is right that we don't have all the players yet and - my view - we currently have a firmly Bottom 10 squad overall (albeit with a few Top 10 quality players).

3. TFG have not so far “backed” Moyes in the transfer market unless you set your sights very low indeed (given the state of our squad after years and years of negative investment and departures).

4. TFG have said (fairly) judge them on the close of the window - so they may yet back Moyes to a point. It is possible, with a really good next week or two, that we could finish the window with the 9th best squad and close the gap with crumbling Villa in 8th.

5. Whatever the quality of our squad, Moyes is tasked with getting us up the table, improving the playing style, and going hard in the cups. If we recruit better, pick up momentum, and other teams underperform, we could yet make Europe this season.

Yes, it seems like we disagree on quite a lot.

Firstly, to your point about Young being an ever-present. Under Moyes, he was virtually non-existent. One of the key reasons we performed so well under Moyes was that he swapped Young for O'Brien which meant we could go from defence to attack. With Young, it was one or the other and mostly defence as we set up under Dyche.

The amount of times Harrison and Lindstrøm had no support and whipped hopeful balls into the box when faced with 2 opponents only to see Young arriving in the picture as the cross drifted harmlessly wide. With O'Brien there is also always an outlet which means teams couldn't defend compact as the opponent would have to engage.

I am not slating Young but we miss him like a hole in the head and Moyes knew it from the day he walked through the door. It was a key factor in our upturn in form.

You also mention the injury to Branthwaite. There was a majority of dissenting voices (me included) when Dyche rushed him back early. Interesting the narrative when Moyes done similar. Our recruitment team have taken that hit.

Also you mention a lot of players playing out of position...do you not think it would be a good idea to put them in position? Maybe that explains why Charly is out of form? No. You put Jarrad in goal I don't think he will perform to the same level?

I gave Moyes his flowers for his impressive start. Likewise the performances, decisions, conduct, coaching, preparation and demeanour since the start of preseason is not what I would expect from any Everton manager. His antics have no doubt hindered the very process he wants speeded up and I believe were of self-interest and not for the good of Everton.

To be honest, O'Brien has always played like he is inexperienced, no matter what position he has played.

But he gets plenty of praise on here, I just don't see where or how he merits it.

So far, it's been about £80M and that's not including a huge wage commitment to Grealish.

Are we moving the goalposts because the market has seemed quite inflated this summer, especially for wingers?

I would say so far that TFG have backed the manager to a degree but we have perhaps not prioritised the right positions or pulled in enough freebies or loan type signings to help pad out the squad.

Though I'm not his biggest fan, I wonder if we had taken Kyle Walker-Peters, who could have played left-back or right-back last night, that might have helped with a more balanced display?

There's an equilibrium to be struck of course between quality and pragmatism but I don't know if the committee have got it quite right so far.

So Moyes doesn't open his mouth preseason. You can see he wanted Barry, Grealish, KDH and Charly from words and role. Now Southampton accept our £43M bid for Dibling. Our spending goes to £111M with a £12M package for our marquee signing to boot.

Would you say that a manager had been backed with 2 weeks remaining to make possibly one more signing and at least 2 more loan or minimal acquisitions? Considering we would have made more acquisitions outside of the promoted teams?

Sam, he's a dreadful player defensively, a slight mark up from Patterson. If TFG are getting pelters from Anzou, it would be deafening once Blues would see him exposed.

Sorry, Sam, is it £80M excluding Grealish?

Anyone thinking we could be challenging for Europe is living on another planet, pre-season and last night's debacle proved that. The worrying thing for me last night was that our players didn't look fit, they looked jaded after 30 minutes.

Has he thrown the toys out of the pram?

Yes I think it’s around £80m excluding Grealish.

If the question is "have TFG backed the manager" then I would say "to do what?"

Q. backed to avoid relegation?
A. yes. They have helped to correct nearly 5 years of extreme negative investment.

Q. backed to finish in the top 10?
A. as things stand Transfermarkt ranks us as having the 15th best squad, so that's open to debate. Certainly we have a chance. But Moyes hasn't been given one of the best 10 squads (yet) so hard to argue he's been "backed" to finish top 10.

Q. qualify for Europe (7th place?)
A. not really no. We would have to massively overperform. It doesn't mean we won't do it - but I don't think you can say we have "backed the manager" by providing a squad that should qualify for Europe.

Q. qualify for the Champions League?
A. no, we're absolutely miles adrift still.

Q. win the title?
A. nope.

So that's why I say TFG have only "backed the manager" if you set your sights very low.

I like the idea of Aznou but if Moyes is not prepared to play him then we really could have used another full back before the season started. Easier to say than do perhaps but just feels to me like priorities were askew.

My personal view is that he's been overly backed in terms of how most modern clubs operate. I think and hope by the end of this window the financial outlay will follow suit.

I know it sounds like I'm a fan of TFG but I really wasn't before this window. I don't know how good Anzou for example will do but I certainly like the strategy and every move seems like a deliberate piece of the jigsaw.

The next four pieces will become clear when others have made their minds up and are trickier than the deals we have done where the player, selling club or both have made the deals easier. Now we are in the territory of where clubs have to play ball, where loanees are made available and players who thought twice might be in danger of being left on the shelf.

It's a massive few weeks for us.

Let me ask a question then.

What do you think TFG have backed Moyes to do?

What do you think this Everton squad should achieve (given the quality of 19 other clubs) and why?

Since we don't know what that limit is, I'd say any debate about what constitutes "backing" is purely speculative... and frankly rather pointless.

Is Moyes getting everything he (and we) would like? No, of course not.

Is he getting everything TFG can give him without landing us back in trouble? We have no way of knowing.

But if I was a betting man, I'd wager on them trying to put the best product on the pitch that they possibly can within the financial limit imposed by PSR.

Also Robert I don't agree with some of the targets signed but I'm not Moyes.
He wanted a creative midfield player and a defensive shield. I would have wanted one like Luiz so there was no need for a 6 when you play with two 8's.

Then the £25 or so million could have been used on a top right back to try and emulate Coleman..

But I think Moyes is identifying and getting the players he wants one by one. He is happy with the back four and keeper. He wants a completely new midfield three and feels Garner, Gueye (most likely to start but different to KDH), Tim and Charly as back ups.

He is happy with Ndiaye where Grealish and McNeill are back ups but will want 2 for the other side.

I think TFG thought Beto was solid with Barry to takeover but both seem in conflict with regards to Beto and Moyes may want him sold or an experienced 3rd striker. He doesn't rate Chermiti.

Normally position in the table comes down to balance etc but I think we must be realistically be striving for top ten with the hope (unrealistic I know) of breaking into Europe.

However with the new stadium I would expect we will maybe finish somewhere similar to last season as we make the place home.

Essentially I want the squad to be better not just for the now but to build for the future, so that we can soon compete for Europe and challenge for the odd trophy.. I accept Rome wasn't built in a day but would be pleased if we went on the right path.

He reckons the players we have signed, no other club were interested in - and I think he could be right which just shows how far Everton have fallen.

Reported tonight that another target Luiz will sign for Forest.
Big shiny new ground counts for nothing up to now !

And Conor, that’s a bit of a cop out. By saying Moyes has been backed it gives the impression to be honest that you think he’s been given a squad that’s up there with those genuinely competing for a top 6 / 7 spot like Spurs and Newcastle, say.

If that’s not what you think then by all means say so. Obviously things can change in the next two weeks but presumably you have a sense of where we are now?

I asked you that question in all sincerity to see if you felt that Moyes wanted different players? That perhaps Kinnear wanted KDH and Moyes didn't? Or you were expecting £200 million etc. I couldn't understand why you felt he wasn't backed.

Judging by your response seems like your question was a bit of a stitch up? If we sign no one else then TFG will have let Moyes down, if we sign Lewandowski, Salah and Rodri then obviously I'm going to have much higher expectations. and expect top six.

As I told you last season when you insisted we only had a relegation squad and I proffered that we should finish around twelfth with this squad. Back then transfer markt didn't help you much. This season will be harder with no Goodison but with the right acquisitions in a normal season we should be looking at between 8th at the top end and twelfth at the bottom end but tenth would be what I would expect. But the reality is that this is a unique season for us which clearly muddies the waters.

That’s pretty much what I said in response to you #162.

So unlikely as it sounds, we agree?!

Robert, whaa???

"Dyche was backed to the limits of PSR."

I think you just swerved off the road with that one.

Dyche isn't remotely relevant. He worked for the new ownership for exactly seven days during a transfer window. They never had either time or PSR space to "back" him on anything.

Shaking my head on that one.

Regarding the 1st half, I think Leeds made us look like we were standing still.

I believe Beto is a new and different  player  now we have Moyes but on this occasion he needed to man up; he should have been subbed as his performance was very disappointing.

He needs to show the defenders he can be a force. Better 2nd half apart from an a appalling penalty decision – his arm was practically round his back.

We definitely need to start stronger with a lot more energy.

My issue with David Moyes is his tactics of playing football. I remember he left us for Man Utd – a team of expensive players – and he didn't last a whole season. His style of football doesn't work to win games, rather his style of play is to just survive in the Premier League by playing not to lose using defensive tactics.

He has purchased or loaned possession-based players that play hold-up football trying to find ways to unlock a stubborn defense. But his style of football reduces the talent of these players, hence a performance like Monday's.

In addition to not starting your said summer signings to show change is here and now. But what we got is more of the same of what we already know.

In my opinion, it's not the players. It's what they are told to do, to satisfy an objective.

I fee,l no matter our opposition, home or away, we always have less of the ball throughout the game, and I'm tired of watching this. When will we dominate possession in an entire game and have a scoreline that reflects this? When will we make this part of our motto?

I believe in my honest opinion that David Moyes's level of managing is not Premier League ready. Especially when it comes to winning the Premier League. Isn't that the overall goal — to win domestically?

I want to see our history updated this year, not next. Every year is a rebuild of sorts with different managers but the same dreadful outcomes. Something drastically needs to change.

Rant over. 🤔