Thanks, But No Thanks

The reason not to like it would be that it is outside f Liverpool but, as I said in the article above, I could accept it ? and really like it if it was a truly magnificent stadium in the right surroundings ? if it wasn?t going to be right next door to a super market. Remember, I was a vociferous supporter of PJ's Hamperdome and that was going to be outside the city as well.

It?s not just one problem that is my and others? issue with the Kirkby Project, it?s a number of them, chief among them the look, feel and environs of the place we will be asked to call "home". IMO, it?s a step down from Goodison and I?d take those delapidated buildings on Goodison Road over Tesco car park every day of the week!

Kieran: I don?t know the city of liverpool at all, which means I don?t know how much better the Bestways site is. ( I would be grateful to know.) What worries me is that as Bestways is obviously a large retail chain as well, how much better overall will their proposed stadium/shopping centre be?

Kierran, I suspect that even though Everton officials have met with Bestway at least once and LCC at least twice since the ballot result was announced the Bestway proposal will be moot until or unless the Kirkby plan collapses.

But, to answer your question, their plan didn't involve a supermarket or retail development on the site or right next to the proposed stadium. They were getting land to the east in exchange for the Loop site on which to develop commercial and leisure properties as their "enabling project." Under their plan, the stadium would be on its own, if only because of the nature and dimensions of the Loop itself.

Dave Roberts: For you, as I recall, the argument was always the leaving of Liverpool and the resulting extinction of our fanbase and handing the city over to our neighbours. WAS IT NOT?

It was always one of the biggest arguments, Dave, but if you read back through my articles and responses on the subject, it was always about all the negatives taken as a whole: outside Liverpool; abandoning the city; sub-standard stadium (although I initially liked the design, it just looks worse and worse the more I see of it); the fact that the figures kept changing and never added up; the way it was being railroaded through; the fact that there was NO PLAN B and when two were presented they were shot to pieces by club-employed "experts"; the crap about 4m catchment area; only 1,000 parking spaces; mixed messaging about rail stations; the one-sided brochure the fact that we were tagging along on Tesco's coat-tails... Dave it was a pretty long list, should I go on?

When I drove past Pride Park a few years ago, I shook my head and was thankful that we had our "Old Lady" and were planning to move to another world-class arena in the form of the Kings Dock.

Now? It?s a Tesco car park. The younger fans decades from now might not really know what they?re missing but those fans in their 20s, 30s and 40s now will. If you?re OK with the new designs and the location, then who I am to tell you you?re wrong? This article is a forum to express my personal opinion and, to be honest, as a fan of a "Grand Old Team" it breaks my heart that it?s come to this...

That other lot across the park apply once and the Council are bending over backwards to accomodate their every whim, practically asking which way they would like it facing, and still we are told there is no favouritism within the ranks of the Council. Don't make me laugh, the whole shower are red through and through, if not red WHY the change of tune for that lot? Isnt Stanley Park a recreational area now.

OK if its going to be used for football purposes, why not go the whole hog and let us (Everton) also build in the park? It certainly is big enough, and how many major cities around the world could boast not one but two top stadiums of two major clubs built in landscaped parkland?

Also the cost of car parks would be shared by both clubs as its very rare both are home on the same afternoon. Just a thought, but I am absolutely livid that they have the very spot of ground that the original club in this city should be housed, its as if we are being booted out of the very area that saw the birth of football in this city by what is to my mind ( THE VERY SPAWN OF OUR CASTOFFS.) WE belong, they dont.
Sorry if ive gone on a bit.

Andy Mckenzie

you must be a kopite to make a remark like that.....

Trevor Wroughton: "The major problem with that is simple. Any new stadium - even one built on the much-talked about ?Loop? - would NOT be ?the Everton you love?. We are going to lose all that in any move, to whatever destination. It?s called progress."

But Trevor, we could still move and build a stadium that is desiged and located in environs that are in accordance with both the club?s traditions and our famous old motto. Of course, leaving Goodison to any new ground will change the character of the match-going experience but ? and I realise we are talking about vastly different budgets here ? I think most fans would agree that Arsenal?s move was successful within those parameters.

Similarly, the Kings Dock project was, in my opinion, befitting ?the Everton I love? ? a world-class stadium in a world-class location, an improvement on Goodison rather than a backwards step six miles further away from town on the arse-end of a Tesco superstore.

I realise that we are in a beggars-can?t-be-choosers situation here because of the financial realities under the current Board but the reason why bring all this up again is because the ignominy of being beholden to a supermarket chain has been compounded by the fact that rather than being completely separate from the proposed Tesco, either by a dividing berm, tall hedge, wall or even a row of trees, the new stadium is going to be plonked right there in a flipping shopping precinct. That was not in the artist?s renderings in the brochure and it was not how the layout looked in the initial overhead plans that were first shown to Kirkby residents earlier this year.

"You said ?Bill Kenwright?s silence on the issue indicated that he knows it? - incorrect. There was a series of video blogs from Kenwright on the official site during the summer, pushing the idea of the new stadium, with him giving his total support to the plans."

As far as I recall (and I?m happy to be corrected) the Official Site showed one Kenwright interview a couple of days before the ballot was due to close, by which time the Board knew which way the vote had gone as they were being given vague indications by the Electoral Reform Society. I remember there being regular criticism on the web forums that Kenwright was being completely silent and letting Wyness drive the train at a time when the fanbase was at verbal war with itself.

Steve Hogan: "Any future development regarding any potential ground move to any location would have involved some sort of retail partnership, even the Kings Dock."

Steve, there?s a difference between there being a "retail partnership" as an financial enabler for our stadium and us looking like an after-thought to a Tesco-driven retail park. There doesn?t appear to have been any attempt made to visually separate the stadium from the rest of the development, to give our new home some kind of identity of its own.

John Sheron: "Thanks for stoking-up the stadium debate just when we were starting to acknowledge the decision"

John, if this Kirkby move is going to happen come hell or high water, should the fans not have a voice in making sure that the best is made from a less than optimal situation and that if we feel that these new artists?s impressions are not acceptable that they should know about it?

I know there were plenty of people who voted "No" but were prepared to accept the decision and then work to make sure that we ended up with the best stadium we could. If you think that those who don?t like what we?re being shown should just keep quiet and just deal with whatever ends up being built to keep the peace then think you?re doing a massive disservice to those fans and the club in general.

Patty Beasley: Now look what you have done Lyndon... the great stadium debate has kicked off again all because of you."

Yes, it?s all my fault, Patty. I released those new artist renderings that revealed the true location of the proposed stadium as opposed to the night-time impressions that made every voting fan think that the stadium for which they were voting would at least be surrounded by car parks, not juxtapositioned right next to Tesco.

Silly me, I should just accept that while we?re getting back to a "big five" club on the pitch, we?re on a par with Reading and Coventry City when it comes to our stadium. Nil Satis...?

People, this whole debate is no longer about voting Yes or No, it is about ensuring that we get the best stadium possible wherever we go. You can still be critical of the plans even if you voted for the Kirkby move. It?s called "people power" and seeing as you?re going to have go there and send your hard-earned dough 20-odd times a year, wouldn?t you want the club to listen if you didn?t like what was on offer?