Season 2011-12
The Mail Bag

How many want Moyes out?

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Just as a direct result of our poor displays and tactics, I wonder how many of you want David Moyes to resign? I would like the editors of Toffeeweb to start a poll and ask "Do you want Moyes to resign?" and show us the result. Because it is getting very hard to watch Everton play these days.

His pick of the day was McFadden instead of Stracqualursi, I don't know his reasons for bringing in Stracq in the first place but, since he has, he should be afforded the chance to play himself into some kind of good form, like Saha last year was allowed to play the first half of the season so should Stracqualursi.

The Argentinian has said himself that he needs to play in order to get fit again, and at this point in time I don't see what there is to lose. We have seen that Saha is struggling in front of goal so I say the hell with it and go 4-4-2 rest of the season.

The fall in attendances should give Moyes a sign that he needs to change things around, but he is too stubborn for his own good. Well, I say sack him, unless he transforms and starts playing more aggressively and starts using Stracqualursi and Vellios upfront along with Saha on the bench.

This overly defensive bullshit cannot go on, as we cannot keep a clean sheet even if the players lives depended on it:


Jimmy Sørheim, Stavanger, Norway     Posted 05/11/2011 at 14:42:38

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Daniel Hutchinson
1   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:20:58

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Distin for Neville when we are 2-0 down... hmm.
Alex Kociuba
2   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:24:51

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Moyes out, the entire board, Steve Round, Neville, McFadden, Osman, Howard, Anichebe.

Robin Cannon
3   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:34:26

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I just want to get back to a concerted campaign to get the board out and finding a buyer who'll run the club with basic competence. Our problems are far more deep seated than who's currently the manager.

Infuriating as he is becoming, "Moyes out" is a call for a short term solution that distracts from the far more important "Kenwright out".
Tom Bowers
4   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:29:16

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Moyes lost the plot a long time ago.
Those days when he was getting manager of the month have long gone as he has proved since then he was a flash in the pan. His team selections,substitutions and general tactics are so totally abyssmal it makes me wonder what it is he holds over Kenwright and the board.
Today's woeful result is just the latest in a line of form going back several seasons.
.We have been seeing the same poor players and tactics day in day out and it's just sickening to see the same players on the team sheet despite mediocrity.
Never mind there was only one goal in it at the end-defeat is defeat no matter what the score is.
Going back to people like McFadden is a sign of desperation by a manager who no longer has any idea. His time is up and although it is early November Kenwright has to act now before it's too late.
We the long suffering Everton fans have had enough of his excuses.
Chris Bannantyne
5   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:21:14

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Yeah, something needs to give, ideally would like to give Moyes a chance with some money before giving him the sack, but dunno if we will ever get taken over, so maybe Moyes needs to go.

A good manager will break up a squad every few years and rebuild from the main skeleton. This keeps things fresh and prevents the squad going stale. Manchester United are a perfect example of this.

Due to a lack of finances, as well as a reluctance to sell some of the more senior "stars" Everton have been unable to do this. Our squad has gone stale.

Football analysts have said that if you are unable to freshen up a stale squad, then the next viable option is to replace the manager. A new manager means new ideas and a different approach, even if only slightly. The hope is the enthusiasm of a new manager would be enough to spur the team on.

As far as who we could sign as manager, there are lots of bright foreign options. There are a few decent familiar names as well. I'd try for Carlo Ancelotti. Probably wouldn't happen, but he's a class manager and our managers wages are pretty fuckin good.
Andrew Flanagan
6   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:36:20

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Increasing number of idiots on here. What do you want from Moyes? Seriously though? Another miracle year after year? These are the same people calling for Owen Coyle 6 months ago.


We have a thin squad and fuck all money.Newcastle are second in the league and unbeaten this season. We conceded an own goal and a wonder goal. You cant legislate for that. We still had chances and should have had a penalty. Do I think were playing great? No I dont but the manager has his hands tied behind his back. People need to stop making knee jerk reactions and look at the whole picture. Yeah lets sack Moyes and get Sven in shall we?
Brian Waring
7   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:44:19

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Andrew, Newcastle have fuck all money, and had to sell their 4 best players, but, as you said " Newcastle are second in the league and unbeaten this season " Sort of makes your excuses for Moyes look a tad silly.

Colin Potter
8   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:38:40

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We can't afford to sack him Jim, he should have the decency to resign. He would walk into any job in the premier league, according to all his lovers.
Someone on the live forum wrote, that even Walter never lost 6 games out of 7.I would like to know if that is true or not.
Does anybody know?
Tom Bowers
9   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:45:46

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Andrew, You sound like Moyes making excuses. They are all used up. If we cannot compete on the field with the top 6 then at least lets stay close but not dwell in the bottom 6 and don't say things will improve. We have been waiting for that for 10 years under Moyes and longer under previous lousy managers.
Mick Davies
10   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:46:50

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Alex Kociuba #2 So you'd keep Hibbert? Once Coleman went to right back and an Drenthe was back were he started the game on the left, we looked like the more dangerous side. Trouble is, that was about the 80th minute. Hibbert can't defend can't read a game, head a ball or pass to a colleague properly. He lacks pace and marks thin air. Why should I pay good money to watch a player who is no better than me? And I was only a Sunday league player.
Brian Waring
11   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:48:34

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I know Barton went on a free.
Domino Darkley
12   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:46:54

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"Distin for Neville when we are 2-0 own... hmm."

=============

I am in the Moyes out corner but I can find no fault in that decision.

It was sensible to move Heitinga into Neville's position and replace him at the back with Disdin.

Steve Barr
13   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:45:07

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Let's just leave things as they are then.

I remember the 2 last days of the season when we miraculously avoided relegation, and don't relish a third.

But I can tell you that's where we're headed based on our performances this season.

No one is suggesting Sven or Coyle, rather serious thought has to be given to the right choice of manager to get us out of this downward spiral.

The board ain't gonna change any time soon so we need some kind of spark.

Moyes has had his chance, he's done well, but not good enough given the long run and support he has been afforded.

Everything about the club is stale. We need a change or else!
Domino Darkley
14   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:51:24

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"Andrew, Newcastle have fuck all money, and had to sell their 4 best players, but, as you said " Newcastle are second in the league and unbeaten this season " Sort of makes your excuses for Moyes look a tad silly"

============

This ^

I weas thinking exactly the same myself.

How many of the Barcode squad were there in their relagation season?

And Pardew has worked the oracle with them.
Andrew Flanagan
15   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:49:51

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Brian, Im not defending him because of some blinded loyalty or I think the sun shines from his arse. The point is that considering the resources and options available to him do I think he is doing a decent job? The answer to that is yes I do. I have no problem with people not being a fan of Moyes, I can see their arguments, but were better fans than this to come on and start a 'manager out' campaign considering the situation.
Brian Waring
16   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:56:37

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There was one stat I was suprised at Domino, Pardew has only lost 7 of the 32 games that he has been in charge of at Newcastle.

By the way, I'm not saying Moyes out, Pardew in.
David Flanagan
17   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:55:11

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Mick *9 Hibbert defended ok. Coleman was both poor in attack and as full back. If he played fullback every week, they'd take the piss out of him. No awareness or positional sense and can't tackle. Ameobi wanted to keep going outside so Seamus just let him. Will never make a fullback in the Prem and in my opinion isn't good enough
Lee Courtliff
18   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:55:11

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The only good thing about today is that i was too hungover to go to the bookies to put a bet on us to win.

A bit unfortunate today.... hit the post, should have had a penalty, stupid own goal...

I must admit that when, he brought Distin on, I was shouting at the telly for him to bring on an attacker. We were two-nil down at the time.

Seamus had an absolute nightmare, even when he moved back to the right wing. He did ok at right back though, albeit only for the last ten minutes or so.
David Holroyd
19   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:53:30

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Distin came on for Neville who was injured but to move Heitinga into midfield just doesn't work; you don't need an FA coaching degree to know that.

Barkley should have come on ? he needs games. I know people will say he's only young but let's be right... Osman was rubbish and has been all season.
Frank Duffy
20   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:01:29

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Me please. He has lost the plot and should do the honurable thing and resign as should Kenwright.
Anthony Fox
21   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:56:52

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Brian and Domino, are you really trying to say Alan Pardew is a better manager than Moyes, just because they are 2nd now?? Didn't he get sacked by Charlton, Southampton and West Ham???

For fuck's sake, lads, get a grip!! He's been there 5 minutes and they will be lucky to finish in the top half!! They were hanging on for their lives today and on another day we would have beat them...

Okay Moyes frustrates the hell out of me too but we are where we are without a pot to piss in.. Who would do better? I bet every manager in the world is shitting themselves who gets mentioned next because who ever has in the past has ended up seeing a drastic dip in their career and results.. Get a grip!!!!!!!
Richard Harris
22   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:56:44

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The one thing Moyes did right today was to bring on Distin when Neville was injured, otherwise it could have been a worse score. Neville had contributed very little and Heitinga was struggling in defence against the taller and stronger Newcastle forwards.

As to Moyes's tactics and game plan ? well it's the same old, same old. If people consider us unlucky today then our wins against Blackburn and Fulham were very lucky. Overall we have been average at best and that is just not good enough. Regardless of the lack of money, a Moyes team aims not to lose, rather than playing to win.
Errol Stafford
23   Posted 05/11/2011 at 15:58:44

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Moyes must stop using the "no money" excuse. He wasted 11m on Bily, either play him in his correct position, or sell him back to a Russian club for 6 or 7 million. Most of the Norwich team came from League 1, yet they play attacking, positive football. Our lads look like rabbits caught in the headlights, devoid of confidence. Only Drenthe seems to have the self-assurity a top player needs. Moyes did well up until a year or so ago, but he has lost his spark, his fight. I am grateful for his efforts, but he must go. The noughties was the first decade without a trophy since the 1940s I think. Nigel Adkins would be my choice, despite the gamble it might be based on his lack of experience.
Franny Porter
24   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:05:39

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People keep making these excuses for Moyes, but having no money does not force you play one up front, bring everyone back for corners and make no changes away to Chelsea when we are two goals down at half time. That still pisses me off.
Richard Harris
25   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:07:31

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Moyes has taken us as far as his ability can. I though he should have left a couple of years ago. Can anyone do better on the same budget ? Moyes was an up and coming manager when he came to us - as we can't afford the best then it's time for another manager (on less money than Moyes) to take the step up for the challenge and maybe we can get some better quality football as well as results...
Brian Waring
26   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:14:49

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Anthony (#21) if you read my post, I said " By the way, I'm not saying Moyes out, Pardew in "
James Stewart
27   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:18:39

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Out
Chris Sudall
28   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:17:35

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I want Moyes to stay. Does no one remember the 90s? He's turned the team around on no budget. We need to support the manager and get investment. All this anti Moyes nonsense is damaging to the team.

Just like the idiots who released the footage of us saying we need to sell players. Well done, allowed other teams (Arsenal) to come in and get our players cut price.

Just get behind the team that's what they need right now. Support!
Richard Harris
29   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:24:10

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At least we won a trophy in the 90s! Something that has eluded Moyes and Kenwright...
Chris Sudall
30   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:26:11

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So you seriously preferred the 90s?
Richard Harris
31   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:26:02

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Chris ? why is critism of Moyes damaging to the team? Moyes and the players are paid more in a week than most fans earn in a year. Surely Moyes's team and tactics are damaging to the loyalty of the fans? I have seen some of the greatest and worst football supporting Everton but that doesn't make me blind to the faults.
Domino Darkley
32   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:28:47

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"Brian and Domino, are you really trying to say Alan Pardew is a better manager than Moyes, just because they are 2nd now?? Didn't he get sacked by Charlton, Southampton and West Ham??? "

--=========

No........just stating facts.

Inconvenient facts tor them as think we can do no better than Moyes or under Moyes.

But facts nonetheless.

David Bridge
33   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:33:18

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MOYES OUT

Andrew - we were awful today same shit tactics its boring and predictable and just for bring McFadden on instead of the quality of Gueye, Barkley says everything.

Chris, I remember the 90's well and cannot see any difference to how Moyes has turned us we are shit, negative and cant score same as the 90's AND we have no money just as the 90's!

I support the team and shout for every player but there is only so much I can take of saha's shit half arsed attempts and stroppy strolling about!
Chris Sudall
34   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:31:19

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It just shows the fans are divided. I'd just love us to be united again. Yes we need a new owner but I see no reasonable replacement for Moyes. We should be happy he persists in such poor conditions.

I see the faults but he's shuffling a very thin pack right now and I think he's done pretty well in recent years.
David Bridge
35   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:38:13

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Anthony -

At least Pardew has won something over his career!

What has Moyes won again..............
Ciarán McGlone
36   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:47:40

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The club under the current regime cannot afford to get rid of him. So at the moment my answer is no.

However, its clear the man will never learn from his mistakes and will never be a top manager.
Graham Duffy
37   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:56:05

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Moyes out!!!!!!!!!!!

Enough is enough
Wayne McNee
38   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:48:25

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Distin should've started based on form. Why didn't he? Neville needs moving to the back room staff ASAP. Hibbert, McFadden & Osman are in the wrong league & then we have nothing but a spatter of talent. The blame for this can be put at the feet of DM & BK as far as I concerned. DM's subs & tactics are the most uninspired & boring in this league.
I look forward to the Manny Fernandez type fiasco with Drenthe in the summer. He IMO is the only player out there today with ideas & passion.
OUT!
Jim Lloyd
39   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:09:14

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I don't see that asking for Moyes to be sacked, or for him to walk, is going to put right what is wrong with our club. I've seen a lot more boring games at Goodison than exciting ones and I often wonder why it is that we don't seem able to produce the free-flowing football that I'd love to see us play.

The real problem though, is the people who are running our club. Until they are replaced, I can see us just going from bad to worse. There is no vision, no excitement, no apparent long-term plan; nothing! So we drift along hoping that we might get another player or two in on loan, or from the lower leagues, when really, I'd be expecting a club of Everton's stature to be going for the best. Well, that's a laugh with this mob in charge.

Moyes, I think, is a capable manager but a boring one. If he bores us but keeps us up, then I think that will just about do us for now.

I don't think there is any point point in asking for him to go because the same players will be here after he goes and so will be the same lack of cash to replace them. There is a danger that the fans are turning on David Moyes when the real culprit sits beaming his smug smile on the big screen, if we happen to be winning (a rarity I know) yet disappears into his bunker when things start going tits up.

So we can't have a change in players, we have to use what we've got the days of an Andy Gray or Peter Reid coming in and galvanising Goodison would appear to be long gone. So for now, as dire as it is, I think changing managers would be an absolutely dangerous move.

Changing Chairman? ? too bloody right and I hope to God that the rumours of a takeover come true and that the chancer is chased out of Goodison Park ASA bloody P!

I've given up my season ticket and won't get one again until Kenwright has gone. Those who believe he's a good blue and therefore has our best interests at heart are as entitled to their views, as I am to mine. I think he's killing the club and Moyes going won't change that.
Ian Tunstead
40   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:53:36

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Strac is awful! We have heard calls for Barkley to play, he came on against Man Utd and was dreadful, we heard calls for Vellios to start, he started against Chelsea and done bugger all, we heard calls for Heitinga to start at CB he did today and look what he did. Forget Strac, he was brought in out of desperation.

I thought McFadden did well when he came on made some decent passes rather than the usaul negative back passing by the other players or hoofing. If you wont Moyes out then please come up with a decent reason rather than using Strac as a reason as if he would have made the difference.
Anthony Fox
41   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:59:36

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Hahaha David 36.. I rest my case.. So get someone in and as long as they win something then its ok if they are shite 90% of the rest of the time.. Who do you want in then David?????
Alan Clarke
42   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:05:13

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Fuck the lot of them - the team, the manager and the board and anyone else whoever claps Kenwright or sings in support of Moyes. Everything Everton related is a complete fucking shambles
Tony Marsh
43   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:04:57

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Will we ever progress if Moyes stays? Answer is No! ? he won't change or learn after all these years, will he?

Please go!
Wayne Smyth
44   Posted 05/11/2011 at 16:45:12

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Moyes should definitely go.

People have got to stop looking at Moyes record from 5 or 10 years ago and using it to excuse his recent performance.

For a few seasons now it is clear Moyes has lost his fire. He spent the money from Lescott poorly; only distin has proved an astute buy.

His stubborn attitude and inability to get the best out of players means we sell a 20 goal a season striker we spent £11M on for a paltry £1.5M(he is still scoring 1 in 2 btw), and the captain of Nigeria who is worth at least £4M will probably be sold for nothing. Thats not to count players like Bily who cost £9M, doesn't fit into the team and who we'd be lucky to get half for if sold. No wonder we are skint.

Moyes ultimate problem is that he seems unable to adapt. When plan A doesn't work, he doesn't try something different. Every week we see the same players in the same position, playing the same anti-football.

If Moyes stays we will go down. At this level, belief and confidence is everything. Bar a handful of individuals, most players are at a similar footballing level. The difference is the mentality the manager instils.

Moyes instils fear and sucks the confidence of his players. The manager should be leading from the front, but its clear to anyone that the guy is dragging everyone down with his defeatist attitude.
Errol Stafford
45   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:15:23

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Wayne Smyth - spot on. The best summation of the Moyes debate I have read.
Ciarán McGlone
46   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:15:12

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Ian,

Firstly, Barkley was put on the wing against united. Out of position. Another favourite trait of Moyes.

Secondly, did you miss the games at the start of the season in which Barkley was quite clearly our most consistent and creative player?

Thirdly, can you explain what Osman has done this season to merit a starting place?
Mike Oates
47   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:21:22

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For those "Football Manager" experts who have been calling for Heitinga to be played in his "best" position of centre half - I give you today - he was as expected absolutely hopeless - Jags had to time and time cover him - Heitinga is a joke of a footballer and should be shipped out as a priority .
Chris Butler
48   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:09:26

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Andrew Flanagan, the ridiculous myth that has been created that Moyes has had no money to spend is wearing thin. He could've sold numerous surplus-to-requirements players to fund new signings. The likes or Arteta, Jags, Rodwell, Heitinga and Saha all of whom have been awful for the last year.

Keeping Anichebe and selling Vaughan. Selling Beckford and the Yak and bringing in a player he never intends to play. Signing a star from the World Cup then refusing to play him. Going into games with no intention of attacking. Swansea drew at Liverpool today they should have won, look at gap in spending.

Against City we made 2 stupid mistakes to concede the goal: Fellani should have been marking Baltotelli and Drenthe made a poor pass. Against Liverpool, Jags was out of position and Distin and Baines messed up a clearance. Against Chelsea we conceded 3 defendable goals the first goal was Coleman's fault, the second was Howard's and the third was Distin's fault.

So the idea it has anything to do with money is a myth. We never made any real effort to attack United last week. Nowadays it's not if the opposition will score it's when. Moyes will never manager a bigger club than Everton that's a fact.

When Liverpool fans say they feel sorry for you having Moyes a manager, you know your in trouble. Moyes was a good manager but he's lost all ambition to take us forward we didn't want an equalizer enough today that's why we lost.
Richard Dodd
49   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:21:52

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Moyes is in no danger of being sacked, so give it a rest, please. Even if he deserved it ? and he certainly doesn`t ? the Club in it`s present state could not afford to get rid.

Any day now, Bill will display his confidence in our very best Premier League manager by offering him a new contract.Then, and only then, will we find out whether Davey has had enough of working on a shoe-string.
Terry McLavey
50   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:12:02

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Andrew #6 Knee Jerk !! How many games do we have to lose before you concede we are in trouble !! We are Premiership cannon fodder !! Saha is a joke, how many could he have had today! Does anyone remember Walter Smith, well we now have his evil twin !!Moyes is a spent force and no not Sven,MARTIN O'NEILL !!
Mike Oates
51   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:24:30

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Carrying on -( sorry pressed submit too early) . I'm sick and tired of the same expert managers calling for Strac , Barkley, Vellios , uncle tom cobbly and all to suddenly start and rescue our season .
Moyes was dealt the worst blow possible with Arteta leaving at the last minute but looking at his lastest buys of Heitinga, Bily, Drenthe, I believe he has lost his ability to find the gems - the new 22-24yr old Baines , Cahill, Jags etc even he had tim eto sue the Arteta £10m .

As far as I'm concerned the guy has one more chance to go to 2 recognized forwards (Saha & Vellios) up in a 4:4:2 formation with some width and Rodwell & Fellaini in the middle - bye bye Cahill,Bily, Osman, and even Coleman on his latest 2-3 week form
Ciarán McGlone
52   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:35:08

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MIke,

Youre sick of people suggesting players who should be playing yet you'll happily suggest a change of formation? Strange.
Andrew Presly
53   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:45:00

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Coleman left wing today was so depressing and unfair on the player. The sight of Round and his notebook at 2-0 down was the low moment for me, though. Mark Hughes or O'Neill.
Anthony Jones
54   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:31:24

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#44 Wayne Smith is bang on the money.

Isn't it interesting that Drenthe is our most threatening player...he has a reputation for arrogance so is partially immune to the negativity of the manager, and he is new in and so Moyes hasn't been able to drill the life out of his play.

I think that wasted talent due to poor management is one of the worst crimes of all.

I never thought I would say it but I want Barkely to leave for his own good.

MOYES OUT....I don't give a shit if it's a risk. Risk is what makes football exciting to watch.


Brian Waring
55   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:47:55

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Chris (#29) " He's turned the team around on no budget " Whilst I agree he hasn't had wagon loads of dosh to spend, he has had money.

The Yak - £11.25m
Fellaini - £12.9m
Bily - £9m
Johnson - £8.6m
Beattie - £6.5m
Heitinga - £6.1m
Baines - £6m
Distin - £5m
Kroldrup - £5m

There's over £70m in transfers there.
Ian Tunstead
56   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:40:42

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Ciarán you use Barkley playing out of position as an excuse for him playing poorly, but then go on to say he was our best player against QPR even though he played in the same position. ?Another favourite trait of Moyes? We didn?t have anyone else to play there!

Moyes stated he did well in pre season and so deserved to start, and he was proved to be right as Barkley was clearly on form and full of confidence. Barkley then cost us a penalty against Blackburn which perhaps knocked his confidence which must have been noticeable in training because Moyes later spoke of his performances in training and said he needs lots of reserve games obviously to gain some confidence and some form.

He was then played in his favoured position against West Brom and done nothing. One of his last interviews he said Barkley was looking better in training and might even start against Man U. Clearly Moyes was wrong and should not have put Barkley on, but then again Bily was even worse.

For your final point, no I cant explain what Osman has done this season to merit a game and the same goes for Rodwell. The bench must be terrible in training is all I can think of.
Guy Hastings
57   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:52:39

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Does anyone know what gormless Steve Round contributes? I doubt even Steve Round knows.
Trevor Mackie
58   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:01:05

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Yes he should resign.
David Flanagan
59   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:55:24

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Barkley had a decent game against QPR and Sheff Utd and now he's too good for us. He was shite at Blackburn and shite last week. He's only 17 so get used to it. He'll get his chance if he deserves it.

Moyes is an idiot with his selections but we can't pin our hopes on Barkley just yet. Too many other players not performing is our problem. We're deep in the shite, no creativity and no goals. We only had 3 creative players, 2 have left and Baines is having a bit of a shocker.
Paul Ferry
60   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:01:44

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Ian Turnstead: 'If you wont Moyes out then please come up with a decent reason rather than using Strac as a reason as if he would have made the difference'. ? This is absolute rubbish mate.

Your reasoning is midget thinking. Go to any thread where Moyes is under review, read carefully and patiently, buy a pen, and write down the number of reasons you read where decent well-intentioned blues pour their hearts out for why Moyes should go or do better.

There are 'decent' reasons all over our boards, read them, think more deeply about them, and your myopic Moyes-tinted, Moyes-tainted posts might be more in line with what most Everton-loving people think.
Phil Rodgers
61   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:11:54

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I think if we lose at home to wolves then he should walk. He will never get the sack even if we go down. We have been appalling all season. Even our wins have been lucky as fuck. Time for some fresh ideas, there are plenty of very good managers in the championship who would jump at the chance to manage Everton regardless of our financial troubles.
Kunal Desai
62   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:05:59

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I would say no for now, until a takeover if and when it happens. Clearing out these morons on the board is priority. New owners should give Moyes a season moreso if he can change his style of play and tactics given additional tools, but it would only be for a season and thereafter if he is still failing to deliver then it's adios golum!
Brian Hill
63   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:08:05

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Just watched Swansea play the RS off their own pitch with a bunch of players I have never heard of. Their quick passing & movement, self-belief and sheer desire to perform were outstanding. In short, everything we are not. None of their players cost millions, they are simply properly coached. It can be done.
Jimmy Sørheim
64   Posted 05/11/2011 at 17:46:32

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Wayne Smith is right on the money. To support his post I have to say that the turning point for Moyes was when he had to sell Lescott. Not long ago before that, he had to sell Wayne Rooney, I have seen that it has taken its toll on Moyes, and that his transfers after that started to make less and less sense. Billy,,Heitinga, Jo, etending Anichebes contract and you can include Yakubu in that as well because after that we have recorded masive losses on all these players, we are in this mess that we are today partly because of Moyes not signing good enough strikers and failing with too many other transfers after Lescott went.. Also Kenwright is to blame for driving wages up after the request of Moyes.

I was one of the Moyes supporters before the sale of Rooney, but all his conflicts with players clearly was a bad sign as it has continued and also destroyed players at this club.
I dont defend buying Bily but Billy did have some ability when he arrived here, now he is reduced to a shadow of himself, due to Moyes playing him too little and out of pos.
Moyes has been here too long, he knows it too well as you can see it in his past press conferances. He needs to take care and resign and start over with a new club. I have no grudge against him, but he needs to think of his career AND what is best for the club. Resign David Moyes, and go with our respect. If not you will suffer the consequenses later on!!
Geoff Harrison
65   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:25:40

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I've started to dislike players. I don't think I've done that since the late seventies. We've all got our opinions, but they seem to fall into the following categories;
Unfulfilled potential : Coleman and Rodwell.
Outstayed welcome by a year: Neville, Saha and Cahill.
Outstayed welcome by a decade: Osman and Hibbert.
Bafflingly useless: Heitinga.
Possessor of the fattest arse in the premier league (possibly signed as a literal bench-warmer) Straquilarsi.
The last comment is definitely unfair.
The others aren't.
Ryan Holroyd
66   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:08:57

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We've sold our two most creative players and not replaced them.

I wonder why we are struggling.

Every other team in England is investing in players, in their stadium. Crawley Town are spending more money on players than Everton

Rather than Moyes out, Kenwright is a cancer on this club. I can't wait til the day he has nothing to do with Everton anymore.

We are just rudderless under this board.

The protest needs to be about that cancer in our boardroom.

Anything else is just cosmetic.
Daniel A Johnson
67   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:41:02

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I wanted him gone 2 seasons ago.

I want NEIL WARNOCK

A class manager who has balls and has never got the chance at a big club.
Jimmy Sørheim
68   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:29:03

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Andrew 51. The sight of Round is only depressing because Moyes is standing right beside him, pretending to listen. HAHAHAHA.
Come on lets all have a laugh, how about this:
Round: Damn, forgot to remove my wifes t-string fter our party in your barn last night!
Moyes:I think Heitinga has smoked too much of the green stuff he brought home from Holland!
Round: Yes, he has looked confused out there and his tackles aren't up to date.
Moyes: Bring my scottish whiskey up so I can have a stiff one at half time.
Round :You got it Boss!!! You want me to go and have a look in Heitingas locker as well and see if he has any left?
Moyes: Couldn't hurt, he seems really out of it out there. Probably some good shit.
Round: Maybe we should wait till after the post-match talks?
Moyes::Yeah you're probably right, that would be another thing those bastards at BU could complain about!
Round: Try to act like I just said something mindbreaking.
Moyes: We probably should try to pretend like were working here.
Round: I think we should introduce Mcfadden and get the crowd going again. They need to get used to him because were planning to sign him full time in May.
Moyes: NIce Stevie, you always have my back!!
Round:Thanks Boss! You know it.
Trevor Mackie
69   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:51:08

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Ryan

You'll never get Kenwright before Moyes because Kenwright effectively owns the gaff it'a a pointless dream.

They're a double act, to get Kenwright you have to go through Moyes - it's that simple.
Anthony Jones
70   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:51:59

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...Round: That Drenthe is a loose cannon. When he set up that second goal I bet he had no idea where the opposition left back was!

..Moyes: Add him to list.

...Round: The brainwashing list?

...Moyes: That's right. Mwa ha ha ha ha!!!
Anthony Jones
71   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:58:15

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...Round: the fans still have no idea that Dave Watson was a creative midefielder until he entered "the program".
Adam Bennett
72   Posted 05/11/2011 at 19:07:18

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While Moyes this season has not covered himself in glory, and seriously done my head in on a number of occations (bring Distin on when 2-0 down? WTF!!!) I still support him to be our manager. Our problems won?t suddenly go away by replacing the manager. Our problems run very, very deep. Until our board clear off, we will not move forward as a club. I don?t feel a change in manager would change much, if anything, especially long term.

A few months ago I wrote an article on here following River Plate?s relegation from the Argentine top flight for the first time in their history. The general gist of the article was that at boardroom level there was huge miss-management and debts that could not be totally explained. They sold all their better players and didn?t, or where unable to adequately, replace. It was an article saying that if the most successful team in Argentina can find themselves in so much trouble, then anyone can. Finances all over the place, selling players and not replacing, it eventually caught up with them big time. It was an example of something we should learn.

This season we have no real creativity and no true firepower up front. This calendar year we have sold Steven Peinaar, Yakubu, Beckford, Vaughan and Mikel Arteta; and bought no-one. Drenthe and Straquarsi loan deals and a McFadden season contract aren?t going to replace them, especially long term.

You can only go so long selling and not replacing before it finally catches up with you. River are a prime example of that.

I just pray that the catch up is not now here with us.

Before people ask about whether Moyes should go, we need to first get rid of Kenwright and his board.
Ryan Holroyd
73   Posted 05/11/2011 at 19:13:11

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Wonderful post Adam. The best post on here in years. We've sold our better players and not replaced them. We are fucked under Bill Kenwright that much is clear.
Graham Skeoch
74   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:57:37

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Moyes out !
Alan Clarke
75   Posted 05/11/2011 at 19:11:52

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Adam, one reason River Plate's board were incompetent is because they hired poor managers too.
Brian Waring
76   Posted 05/11/2011 at 19:20:21

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Adam, the Yak was finding a bit of form, a then for some reason Moyes loaned him out, and eventually sold him. Beckford was then shipped out for no apparent reason, this was after we were told that we didn't have to sell.



Wayne Smyth
77   Posted 05/11/2011 at 19:12:24

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Adam, who are going to force the board out? Moyes?

He seems happy enough to take his 70k / week, not get flak from kenwright and serve up the same crap that has lost us the last 6 of 7 games, every game.

Even 10 years on, I can count on one hand the times we played genuinely good football for a sustained period of a match(not a season, a MATCH). When was the last time we really battered a team? ANY team, not just a premier league team.

The majority of teams we play will have less expensively assembled squads than us. Almost all of them seem to be able to out-football us.

Even with ZERO money for new transfers, I'm sure we still have a side which has a higher wage bill than many of our peers. Yet our only tactic week after week is to hang on for nil-nil and hope to nick something with crab football.

If we've lost and not replaced our creative players, whose fault is that? Moyes has had 10 years to get some hungry young players with pace into the squad, yet he wastes the money he's been given on defenders that can't get a game and players who do not have the creativity our squad has always cried out for.

Meanwhile Fenerbache and Blackburn benefit from Moyes inability to get on with the players HE purchased.
Jimmy Sørheim
78   Posted 05/11/2011 at 19:12:45

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Dont you feel great having sold Yakubu,Beckford and Arteta now? We at least could have gone for Demba Ba.Though it now appears that Moyes DECLINED to sign him, giving the reason that he felt Demba was a fitness concern:....

At least he played most season and scored that is more than Straq. has done. I am baffled at Moyes and this Demba Ba history just goes to underline my point ontring how Moyes needs to resign!!!

Moyes: Stevie, I think youre wifes T-srocks on you, though I think it would look better on me.

Round: Damn it, I forgot my "butt plug" with sharp edges at home.
I really wanted to tear myself a new one after Heitingas brain dead own goal.

Moyes:Be quiet, you need to learn some manners, I will teach you along with Heitinga at tonights Whiskey party in my garage.

Round: I have tried and tried with Heitinga but he still insists he is the best defender in the world, and if I suggest he has to play right back then he just head butts me. What can I do??

Moyes:Ahh, you just stand there looking smart, and I will tell him that I will do exactly as he says. Then we will be okay. He has to start performing sooner or later, right?!

Round:Okay Boss, you are probably right as usual.

Moyes: Of course I am. Now do you want me to read you another bed-time story tonight, so you dont worry so much about our defending?

Round: JIPPI, wich one, Charlie and the chocolate factory?

Moyes: Whatever you want son. I feel good today as we waisted another opportunity to get 3 points. I have to remember to go to the bank and get my weekly wages. Maybe we can go shopping for some new underwear for our wives and us?

Round: Great, it has been so long since we did anything together. I pick yours and you pick mine, deal?

Moyes: Sure, cant wait to see what color you are going to pick...
Dave Vickers
79   Posted 05/11/2011 at 18:58:44

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Domino @14
One person connected with the Barcodes relegation side was Steve Round (I think his career was 3 games for Derby at full back) . I am convinced that our coaches destroy any confidence, flair, attacking intensions our lads ever had.

The Yids have Clive Allen, Les Ferdinand and Tim Sherwood. I think everyone will agree that they are currently a lot more entertaining to watch than the tactics demanded by Moyes and Round.

Coleman on the left and Drenthe on the right, I just don´t get it, Drenthe could be our saviour, on the left he can beat a man and cause problems, on the right he just seems to cut inside and then plays a poor pass because by then he is facing the wrong way.

It all started to go wrong 1st game of season, One up front against the mighty QPR who I think had just been hammered in their previous game.

I don´t kow how much more of this shite football I can take.
We can´t afford to sack you. So, David Moyes, please walk ? and take your side-kick with you.
David Bridge
80   Posted 05/11/2011 at 19:43:58

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Anthony #42 - I asked you a question what has Moyes won.............. I'll help you out with the answer - fuck all! If he had been at any other club he would have been sacked a long time ago but BK cannot do it.

Pardew is not shit 90% of the time he is a proven manager, has won things and is in demand AND he has turned a Championship team into a team pushing for honours at the top!

I would bring in Martinez or Poyet personally.
Marcus Kendall
81   Posted 05/11/2011 at 19:54:29

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Martinez??????? hes awful!

cheap option Hughes

better option Lambert/Poyet
Lin Jinli
82   Posted 05/11/2011 at 19:51:46

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Moyes should really quit on his own rather then waiting to be sacked, Duncan Ferguson In! Oh wait ? he doesn't have a coaching badge yet.
Brian Keoghan
83   Posted 05/11/2011 at 19:33:56

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6 defeats in 10 games is definitely relegation form and means Wolves and Bolton coming up could define our whole season. Keeping Moyes could mean demotion to the Championship but to sack him now would mean the drop for sure.

Firstly,who would come? The new guy would take weeks to find his feet and by then half the season will have passed. Between now and the turn of the year we have 8 games against teams (apart from Arsenal) who are similiar to ourselves and represents our best chance to stay out of the relegation zone. To make a change now may deny this opportunity.

On the other hand, if the next 8 games do not yeild the required number of points to give us more than a fighting chance to avoid the drop, then that may be the time to consider the manager's position. Premier League survival is paramount for our future; without it, we are done for. Give Moyes a chance to turn things around before the New Year. Now is not the time to swing the noose.
Wayne Smyth
84   Posted 05/11/2011 at 20:28:52

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Quote from Neil Warnock when QPR were narrowly beat by Man City today:

"We thought, 'If we're going to get beat, we might as well have a go at them and get beat.'"

Thats what I want from a manager of Everton, not the negative "knife to a gunfight" bollocks. I dont want the Everton manager to be comparing bank balances before determining if we are fit to grace the same football field. Have a bit of belief and have a go FFS!
Simon Atkins
85   Posted 05/11/2011 at 20:11:08

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Very depressing that today and Moyes isn't without fault. However, I feel for the guy in some ways. Totally let down by the short sighted bunch of pricks on our board.

We were so close a couple of years ago and pushing on even with an average budget. What I would have loved to see is Moyes properly backed in the transfer market and then there could be no debate as to his credentials. We would have either cracked it or Moyes would have shown that whilst he is a premiership manager he is not a great one.

What options did Moyes really have today? Two up front? Vellios showed against Fulham he wasn't ready from the off. I for one trust Moyes totally with young players and for all of those screaming for Barkley name me one young player that has left us to do better things? (please no Rooney answers)
Ryan Holroyd
86   Posted 05/11/2011 at 20:38:36

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If we've lost and not replaced our creative players, whose fault is that?

Bill Kenwright, Jon Woods and Robert Earl has not put a SINGLE PENNY into EFC.
Tony Twist
87   Posted 05/11/2011 at 20:56:19

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How about Slaven Bilic! Mind you he did take his money and run when he left as a player. Mark Hughes might be interested did ok at Blackburn not sure about being a clever tactician / coach though which is what we really need. Change is required whether BK will ever admit it and do something about it is another matter.
Alan Clarke
88   Posted 05/11/2011 at 21:02:22

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I fuckin hate all this sympathy bollox for Moyes. I have none, he's paid more than any player. If he's been so let down why doesn't he walk or come out and say something publicly about Kenwright? Sitting there towing the party line all the time means he's in on this total shambles.

Like our man Doddy reminds us, Moyes and Kenwright are joined at the hip.
Phil Martin
89   Posted 05/11/2011 at 21:21:10

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David Bridge, what the fuck?

Sack Moyes becuase he's won fuck all, then replace with Martinez?

Get a grip.
Simon Atkins
90   Posted 05/11/2011 at 21:19:25

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Alan @88 maybe the fella wants the best for us so doesn't want to just walk.

He has been totally let down by the board. When he does walk I think we may all rue the day
John Daley
91   Posted 05/11/2011 at 21:05:57

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"Barkley then cost us a penalty against Blackburn which perhaps knocked his confidence which must have been noticeable in training because Moyes later spoke of his performances in training and said he needs lots of reserve games obviously to gain some confidence"

Err, yeah, or maybe the fact Moyes immediately subbed him after giving away said penalty and harshly banished him to the reserves for weeks for making one mistake might have played it's part in kicking crap out of his confidence. Most other managers would probably have put an arm around the lad, offered him some public support and told him to learn from it and not to worry too much about it.
Simon Harris
92   Posted 05/11/2011 at 21:27:38

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I'm focusing all my efforts on removing Kenwright first and foremost, and ill be on the BU march again to voice my frustration at the decline of our great club.

If Moyes walks as a result so beit, but as some on here are quick to point out he's on a hefty wage so I don't necessarily think the two are intertwined.

Ryan Holroyd
93   Posted 05/11/2011 at 21:36:03

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I agree with what Moyes is doing with Barkley.

Not everyone is like Wayne Rooney and I can remember when Branch and the like were supposed to be wonderkids and they were put in a struggling team. We know what happened to them next.

Truth is, no-one knows what Moyes has said to Barkley. You're just guessing.

Don't forget, Barkley had nearly the whole of last year out injured as well.


Ste Traverse
94   Posted 05/11/2011 at 21:12:10

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Whilst I agree the Moyes years have run their coarse, the biggest problem at the club is Kenwright and his utter desperation to cling on at all costs to the detriment of the club.

This complete cunt should IMO never have been allowed back into Goodison again once rumours of Sheik Mansour being interested us before he acquired Man City proved to be true and he was turned away.

Kenwright and his yes men in the boardroom are a curse on this club.

Jason Heng
95   Posted 05/11/2011 at 21:51:20

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I read from these comments that we want to be the next Newcastle, Norwich, Blackpool, Bolton, Swansea, QPR or even Aston Villa! Seriously...

What Moyes has given us is at least top ten stability for several years now. Working with the same budget, I'm not sure many managers can achieve the same, consistently.

What money he has wasted on Billy, Yakubu etc, were generated from the sale of players he brought in the first place (think Lescott, AJ, McFadden...)

How many people who post here actually see the players more than 90 minutes on the computer? Yet everyone seems to know the form and condition of the Barkley, Gueye, Strac, Heitinga better than the manager!
David Bridge
96   Posted 05/11/2011 at 22:19:25

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Phil #89 Martinez is a young manager he hasnt had time to win anything yes but at least he is playing good attacking footy that is actually watchable. No one could make Wigan a top team!

Simon #85 Whose fault is it that Moyes does not have any strikers available.......yes thats right its Moyes fault selling Yak, Vaughan and Beckford and keeping a shit injury prone misfit Saha!

MOYES OUT
Ryan Holroyd
97   Posted 05/11/2011 at 22:33:54

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David Bridge

Wigan are not good and they're not good to watch.

I've seen them a few times are they are rubbish.

We had to sell because we have no money.

Anyone is for sale at Everton for a certain price.
Trevor Mackie
98   Posted 05/11/2011 at 22:36:31

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I'd have Martinez in a heartbeat on the basis of the foundations he set at Swansea.
I like his ideas on football but I doubt he'd come having seen through Villa who are better placed than us.

People judging him on Wigan are tools, how they've managed to stay in the Prem is nothing short of a miracle, it's only a matter of time before they fall.
Nick Armitage
99   Posted 05/11/2011 at 22:18:58

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Get the cancer of Kenwright, Woods, Carter and Earl out, then see how Moyes does.

If we are still playing spirit crushing anti-football then get him a taxi as well.

We didn't sell out against Utd and there were still tickets on the morning of the derby, if that isn't a wake up call then nothing is.
Dennis Stevens
100   Posted 05/11/2011 at 22:40:00

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I would like to see Moyes move on to pastures new, but I'd rather see a new Board of Directors first.
Simon Atkins
101   Posted 05/11/2011 at 22:48:33

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@95 David why did we need to ship those players out? Oh yes, we don't have a pot to piss in and couldn't afford the wages. Now who could possibly be to blame for that?

I actually think that the integrity of Moyes is such that he works within these constraints making sure we never do a Leeds.

BK & Co out!
Brendan McLaughlin
102   Posted 05/11/2011 at 22:51:23

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No way!
Robbie Muldoon
103   Posted 05/11/2011 at 22:56:36

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How James McFadden got on the pitch ahead of some of those players on the bench who have put in a full pre-season and all the rest of it I will never know.

I am so frustrated with David Moyes. He came with the right sound bites at the start and he sorted out a shite squad and instilled some discipline into them. His attitude at one point was to even say why can't we win the league!? Some terrific signings in Arteta and Cahill. He has embraced the whole club and become a fellow blue who will long be associated with this club.

BUT

He has always, always, stunk the place out on matchdays. From team selections, to tactics, to substitions he is absolutely shocking! Unimaginative, predictable, and slow to react. I always put this down to lack of experience due to his age and only ever having managed a lower league side. I hoped he would learn, and change.. but he clearly isn't.

He is now defeatist before games, apathetic after them. His team sheets stink and his subs enrage. He is a stubborn man who is steadfast in his ways, even though they are clearly incorrect to many supporters.

He has plateued at his level, and it is a level not good enough for us. Thanks and a time for goodbye soon I hope.
Derek Thomas
104   Posted 05/11/2011 at 23:23:20

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Jimmy # 64: Nail, Head.

Watched game on Sat night in Brisbane, stone cold sober ( baby sitting ) They came back in 5 mins before the OG...All quiet? yeah and the baby as well...Johnny H and Tim do their thing, That's it, Plan A up the chute, I'm off to bed, I'll watch the rest in the morning ( like a mug ).

Too many players running on empty.

Moyes and Round etc, running on empty.

Kenwright and the Board running on empty.

Many Fans confidence and happiness running on empty.

The Bank balance deffo running on empty.

The Whole fuckin Club running on empty.

The chances of Kenwright and Moyes going...running on empty.

Have I missed anything?
Derek Thomas
105   Posted 05/11/2011 at 23:50:25

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The thing is, in previous seasons, while we would all be pissed off at losing, we may analytically have said, we hit the post had a pen not seen, gave away a daft OG and had them hanging on a bit in the 2nd half...all in all a bad day at the office, and be better next week.

But too much has inertia has accumulated over the last 2,3 or even 4 seasons, and no hope of anything different to come, no season defining tackle on Ronaldo to wind us up, ( how many seasons ago was that? )

This is where we are, an average Gosling who has barely kicked a ball for 18mths and McFadden are playing and looking good compared to us.
Brendan McLaughlin
106   Posted 06/11/2011 at 00:07:32

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Derek #104
Yeah ..you missed one..SUPPORTERS running on empty!
Domino Darkley
107   Posted 06/11/2011 at 01:02:29

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"This complete cunt should IMO never have been allowed back into Goodison again once rumours of Sheik Mansour being interested us before he acquired Man City proved to be true and he was turned away."


=========

WTF?

Did I miss something?

When did "rumoors of Sheik Manssoor" being interested ever prove "to be true"?

Catch a fucking grop, fella.
Eric Myles
108   Posted 06/11/2011 at 01:06:57

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Jimmy (OP) what about polling the question as.

Moyes out and we get relegated or Moyes stays and we remain in the EPL?

See what the responses would be then.
Ste Traverse
109   Posted 06/11/2011 at 01:37:08

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Dimino 107.

I think it's you who need to catch a fucking grop, 'fella'.

Rumours about Mansour had done the rounds for a while, even a few e mails TW had got hold of pointed to this......and then Kenwright confirmed in his interview with Christian Purslow on Five Live a few weeks back the Mansour had been interested.
Domino Darkley
110   Posted 06/11/2011 at 01:45:46

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No he didn't.

Bill said that "if we had been in a new stadium then Sheik Mansoor might have had a look at Everton".

Way, way different from what you are saying, fella.

Thus far no one....but no one....has been able to produce evidence of one credible offer to buy the club.

Domino Darkley
111   Posted 06/11/2011 at 01:52:54

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Dave Vickers, post 79.

I have nothing to add.

You speak for me, sir.
Jimmy Sørheim
112   Posted 06/11/2011 at 01:40:27

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So Eric, you clearly think Moyes can recover from his own mess, selling Arteta was his own choice, not getting a replacement in, is that the kind of coach you want at Everton, one that does not put the club before everything. Good for you then, you are in your own right, but I dont think you will want to praise Moyes for another ten years.

I see you wanting too back him but you have to see the steady decline we are in. Selling Arteta,Beckford and Yakubu without a direct replacement, it doesnt lie well with me, I want more for Everton, Moyes first 5-6 years were great but the last year or so gives away all the signs of bad leadership.

The one thing I expect from an Everton manager is that he puts the club before any players wishes, after the manager is suppose to manage the club, not dismantle it slowly, year by year. And the wages that have grown is all because of Moyes putting public pressure on Kenwright to follow his lead, or else..

I hope I am wrong and Moyes turns it around but basing what he has done over the last year or so I feel we are in big danger of going straight down, and I dont want that. I just hope Kenwright sacks him before then or Moyes resigns so that we at least have a fair chance of staying up.

The public opinion is shifting steadily, with each loss and poor performance people will not stay silent forever. That is why it is a good idea to see where people are headed. Do they want him out before the season ends or do they want him to stay no matter what. We will have to wait and see.

I think I am not alone in sensing a pitfall, and based on this post I wrote majority opinion seems to be Moyes out, at least for now anyway. It could well change, but I just cant see what Moyes can do this year, no secret weapons, hidden talent we are heading downwards my fellow Blue.
Ste Traverse
113   Posted 06/11/2011 at 02:15:37

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Domino.

Keep going with the self-delusion 'fella'.
Brendan McLaughlin
114   Posted 06/11/2011 at 02:09:46

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Jimmy #112
You're obviously not employed in marketing research.
Davie Turner
115   Posted 06/11/2011 at 02:16:49

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Would want moyes out tomorrow, but maybe after the next Newcastle league game at Goodison it would be best for him and us. I think he 'll see us through this season.
Brendan McLaughlin
116   Posted 06/11/2011 at 02:25:22

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Davie #115
Do you aspire to relegation?
Christine Foster
117   Posted 06/11/2011 at 03:56:14

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I wonder when they show BK on the big screen at the next home game what the response will be now?
Mick Davies
118   Posted 06/11/2011 at 03:24:17

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Moyes has said: "We must improve every season".

"I have always been supported by the board. Whenever I've wanted a player they have found the money. It's just that there aren't any players better than what we have here available".

"I decide who leaves the club. It's my decision".

What he hasn't said is "The board won't give me the funds", or "they sold these players behind my back and I don't have any time to get replacements in".

He is responsible for the state of the squad and our present predicament. If this isn't the case, then why hasn't he come out and told the world any different? Even Walter had the guts to publicly criticise the sale of Dunc behind his back.

The shit selection and tactics are down to Moyes and his poxy earpieced friend. Almost all of our squad are internationals or U-21 caps so why are they playing so shite? I say Moyes out, but not if it means Round taking over.
Anto Byrne
119   Posted 06/11/2011 at 03:58:29

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Too defensive, too negative, plays favourites, tactics? Why couldn't we have Barkley on with McFadden and why no support up front for Saha? Cahill is no longer the answer.

We have a tired and stale manager playing all to predictable football. Time for a change time for something to give. Not looking forward to the Championship thats for sure and that's where it looks like we're heading. Taxi!!!!!
Eric Myles
120   Posted 06/11/2011 at 04:45:21

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Jimmy, I'm neither for nor against Moyes. I'm just interested in knowing whether those that want 'Moyes Out' want it at any cost? Would they be happy to watch exciting football in Doncaster or dour displays at Old Trafford?

I actually agree with Robin #3, the serious problems lie not with Moyes but with Kenwright. Until that major problem is solved no manager is going to have the right tools to produce an exciting winning team.
Eric Myles
121   Posted 06/11/2011 at 04:57:41

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Anto, when I looked at the team sheet yesterday my first thought was 'we have no reinforcements'.

Our bench would not get on the bench of any other team in the league. That we had to include 2 players that are injured and 5 that have not played a full game in years speaks volumes.

It's more a case of having tired, stale players that the manager has no option but to use than anything.
Paul Maguire
122   Posted 06/11/2011 at 05:32:35

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Bily has been the model professional while at Goodison. He has never moaned and always said he will fight for his place while being occasionally started and when he is (or brought on) its at left wing where he obviously struggles. He has had all confidence knocked out of him and if thats football player management we may as well have Walter Smith back ? at least he brought in the mad Materazzi!

Every time Bily plays through the centre he is a different prospect and looks sharp with good footwork and passing ? but that wont happen now. The fact that McFadden and Osman are seen as the most potent attacking weapons shows how pathetic we have become.

41 years supporting the Blues, I dont think I have ever felt so dispirited.
Eric Myles
123   Posted 06/11/2011 at 05:19:19

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Ryan #66, Adam #72, both spot on posts
Lee Gray
124   Posted 06/11/2011 at 09:45:40

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Moyes got to go and take the other idiot with you!
Robert Daniels
125   Posted 06/11/2011 at 09:44:55

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It was Moyes's decision to play a right-footed player on the left side of defence to enable the awful Jags to keep his position. Heitinga went for the ball with his natural right foot, if that had been Distin, he would've cleared it with his left and probably put it out for a throw or at least a corner.

Moyes then says, the goal was a joke! You're the joke, Moyes, you played him there FFS!

Moyes out before it's too late.... we're going down!
Phil Martin
126   Posted 06/11/2011 at 10:43:57

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Wigan have spent more money than us over the last couple of years. Yet they're below us even with our worst run of results in years.

When Martinez has Wigan finishing fourth, (exactly as Moyes did in 2004) then i'll acknowledge he's up to our job.

But until then, sacking the manager with those parasites on the board remaining is just pointless.

If your house is crumbling becay
Phil Martin
127   Posted 06/11/2011 at 10:51:38

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...because the foundations are rotten. Then why would you bother replacing the front door?
Trevor Mackie
128   Posted 06/11/2011 at 10:57:42

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There's only 5 managers in the prem I wouldn't take over Moyes.
Dalglish
McCarthy
Bruce
Kean
McLeish

Any of the others I'd be happier with for the relegation battle he's dropped us in.

BTW Lescott, AJ, Arteta, Gosling, Yak all enjoying themselves... don't know about McFadden ? there is life after Moyes.
Tony McNulty
129   Posted 06/11/2011 at 11:03:03

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If Sheik Hands had thought there was a reasonable possibility of buying us, given the money he has since spent at the noisy neighbours, would the lack of a stadium have actually put him off?

If this story of his interest were true, then other factors singly or together must have killed any potential deal.

Now I wonder what those factors might have been.
Gavin Ramejkis
130   Posted 06/11/2011 at 10:54:02

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Trying to stay impartial and list a few things

The board have seriously failed to support the manager with funds for players over his tenure - looking at the entirety not just times he has spent

The manager is culpable for some really poor spending - Bily as the major one worth noting, simply doesn't fit into where the manager wants him to play (subjective as to whose fault that is but I'm inclined to say Moyes fault as he clearly ignored his position for previous teams)

Both the board and Moyes are responsible for getting shut of players that offered more than those that they kept - Beckford whilst never a prolific goalscorer still scored more in his cameos than any other striker we had on a per mins on pitch ratio comparison) yet signs up Anichebe on a long term deal when he never has performed in all his years at the club.

Strategies and formations and substitutions, these are down solely to the manager and he abjectly refuses point blank to change his game plan no matter what team he is playing against or how the game is going. Better managers, and there are plenty of them out there, play each game on its own merits and are willing to make game changing substitutions before going behind in games just in order to try to salvage a draw.

The argument of Moyes seeing things at Finch Farm we don't is a complete and utter misnomer given the simple and undeniable truth that he still plays out of form players and injured players over others, it is either a case of those players are much better even injured (despite what we see every week in poor performances from the injured out of form players) and the remainder shouldn't be on the payroll and sold OR he is simply too stubborn to play other players and retain his favoured at all costs lineup - either way those are failures.
Steven Pendleton
131   Posted 06/11/2011 at 11:13:26

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Move on Moyes and take your dire, uninspiring, and defensive attitude with you. Your tactics and defensive approach is draining the life out of the club and supporters.

Dave Vickers
132   Posted 06/11/2011 at 11:26:15

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Was one of our leading goalscorers Velios injured or just dropped because he wasn´t Scottish or shite. I know he didn´t have a great game when he started up front on his own, but how many managers would start a 19 year old as a lone striker, this lad has got talent and needs some help up front.
Team selection yesterday and substitutions were once again a joke.
Joe Clitherow
133   Posted 06/11/2011 at 11:41:48

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Jimmy Sorheim

"I was a Moyes supporter" "I have backed him".

No you haven't, you just post on an internet forum pouring scorn on and berating good Evertonians who don't do what you want to do from your armchair in Norway, and then act holier than thou by adopting some sort of moral high ground when it doesn't pan out as you want.

sup·port

   [suh-pawrt, -pohrt] Show IPA

verb (used with object)
1. to bear or hold up (a load, mass, structure, part, etc.); serve as a foundation for.

2. to sustain or withstand (weight, pressure, strain, etc.) without giving way; serve as a prop for.

3. to undergo or endure, especially with patience or submission; tolerate.

4. to sustain (a person, the mind, spirits, courage, etc.) under trial or affliction: They supported him throughout his ordeal.

5. to maintain (a person, family, establishment, institution, etc.) by supplying with things necessary to existence; provide for: to support a family.


I have challenged you before on here to actually come into the midst of Everton fans, say in front of the Winslow or Gwladys street School, and start your rabble rousing there. I haven't noticed anyone doing that yet, though I did see a clown with a cake a few weeks ago.

Anyone is entitled to opinion around our current situation but snidely denigrating Evertonians as you consistently do on this site sticks in my craw. You - and I think you are the only one who does this consistently - criticise Evertonians when others criticise the manager or the board. To me, this is unacceptable.

Follower of Everton you may be, "Supporter" you clearly are not
Ray Robinson
134   Posted 06/11/2011 at 11:47:33

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Dave #133 - wasn't Velios injured during the warm up?
Andrew Ellams
135   Posted 06/11/2011 at 12:05:41

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So Joe at #134, anybody who doesn't share your opinion isn't a supporter.

We are all supporters of Everton FC and have the right to our own opinions. And if you don't think that there is a rapidly growing anti-Moyes feeling around the place then you must be walking round with your fingers in your ears and your eyes closed
Graham Shaw
136   Posted 06/11/2011 at 11:31:23

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Gavin,
Have always found your interventions fair and inciteful. Cannot disagree with any of them in this stream. But dont you think that the players selected need to take some responsibility forthe lack of movement , poor passing, crossing, communications, and powder puff or wild shooting. The excuses cannot be put down to tactics ,selection etc .Yesterday we had a fair number of chances which were all wasted. For me its time for the team to step up and take resonsibility and be accountable for the wages they get.
Joe Clitherow
137   Posted 06/11/2011 at 12:08:54

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Andrew

Read my post - especially the bit that says

"Anyone is entitled to opinion around our current situation but snidely denigrating Evertonians..." and see if you can comprehend that bit more clearly.

And yes I do make a distinction around the word "supporter" as active particpation as the lifeblood of the club and who can actually make a difference and "follower" which is clearly passive.

You seem to have read that as me saying that some people's opinions count for more, which I was not saying here.
Wayne Smyth
138   Posted 06/11/2011 at 12:22:59

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Phil(127) EVERYONE has spent more than us over the last few seasons. Thats because our board have allowed our manager to spend more than the club can afford and the tap has been turned off.

If you look back over the last 10 years, however, Wigan have spent just £10M, while Moyes has spent £42M.

So, you can add me to the list of people who would have Martinez in ahead of Moyes. If we're going to get relegated, I'd rather go down fighting and playing proper football rather than with this uninspiring shite we're forced to endure season after season.

Moyes has often wasted the money he has been given. Look at the £23M he got for lescott. £15M of that went on Bily and Heitinga. Neither of those are bad players, but they just dont give us anything we need. Hence when we play them they look completely awful because they barely get a game and when they do play they're often played out of position.

Why didn't Moyes spend that £15M on quality wingers/creative players like Donovan, Ben Arfa for example? Players we've been crying out for ever since Moyes took charge? That way, we can afford to let Pienaar and Arteta leave without having ZERO creativity and pace in our squad. The fact we rely on our left back for the majority of our creativity is a damning indictment of Moyes tenure.

Look how much of a different side we looked with Donovan in it. All it takes is a bit of pace and multiple threats which makes a side difficult to nullify.

If I was a rich investor I certainly wouldn't be pumping money into the current Everton regime, just to see how many fucking defenders £100M will buy you.
Jamie Tulacz
139   Posted 06/11/2011 at 13:08:53

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People seem to be completely ignoring the fact that 6 out of the last 7 games have been against the top 6 in the league, plus 1 game away at Fulham, where we have a consistently poor record. Ah well, lets not let the facts get in the way of a good rant!

Let's at least wait until we have a normal run of games, before judging a whole season
Wayne Smyth
140   Posted 06/11/2011 at 13:20:07

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Jamie, its more than just about recent results, or the last 6 or 7 games.

We've not played well against any team, regardless of their resources vs ours. We got battered at blackburn and fulham this season so far. There will be more of that to come.

Looking longer term I can't recall the last time we comfortably won a game without a nail biting finish. This Everton side which is full of international quality players does not know how to beat a side 2 or 3 nil. All it knows in every single game is to try to keep it tight, nick something(usually from a set-piece), then defend that 1 goal lead for the rest of the game.

Even when we play lower league opposition we often struggle and get out-footballed, as Brentford showed us a season or so ago. That's not Moyes being starved of resources, that's Moyes not having confidence in his players and not having a clue about how to set his side out to create chances.

Moyes was the man for the job 10 years ago. He's been shit ever since he signed his bumper 70k/week contract. Now we're getting into really dangerous territory where relegation is a very probable reality unless we get change.
Domino Darkley
141   Posted 06/11/2011 at 13:27:29

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We have a consistenly good record at Chelsea and City in recent years but we went there and never even tried to win.

United hadn't beaten us at Goodison for a number of years but we were quite powder puff agaisnt them.

It isn't the defeats that is so dispiriting... it is the manner of them.
Brian Waring
142   Posted 06/11/2011 at 13:39:12

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Jamie: "Let's at least wait till we have a normal run of games." That's a strange remark Jamie.

What would be a normal run of games? Would that be against teams below us?
Davie Turner
143   Posted 06/11/2011 at 13:36:30

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#117 Brendan

I personally think we'll end this season somewhere in the middle. I think it has all gone stale under Moyes but I think changing managers mid season would be a bit risky. I don't trust BK not to make a complete mess of it.

A planned change at the end of the season would be my choice. Though in fairness BK would likely mess that up too.
Anthony Millington
144   Posted 06/11/2011 at 13:29:48

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Haha, Jamie most managers would be sacked for losing 6 out of 7 games. I know we've had a very tough run in, but Moyes gets all the praise in the world when we do well yet we've had some humiliating times with him as manager and stuck by him. Losing 6 out of 7 games at many clubs would not be tolerated, how the mighty Everton have fallen, 'Nil Satis Nisi Optimum' my arse.

For all the board's failings in providing financial support to Moyes, that is no excuse at all for Moyes's rubbish tactics starting the likes of Coleman in midfield every game when he's really an attacking full back (certainly not a left mid) or playing Saha when he hasn't really merited his place in the starting 11. There are so many questions you ask about Moyes' tactics and it all boils down to his negativity. Where is Magaye Gueye for instance? He is a winger and has been banging in goals for the reserves, but Moyes puts Coleman outwide instead and then McFadden!

For all Moyes's plaudits, what does this tell you about his signing of Bily if these players are ahead of him in the pecking order? Yet we all know at home against poor opposition in our next game, we'll still have Coleman playing, a defender in midfield, one upfront and then we'll most probably do the usual gung ho approach at the end to try and grab a last-ditch result!
Kevin Elliott
145   Posted 06/11/2011 at 14:01:42

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I'm pissed off with all this banter about Moyes. In or Out? I say out.
David Mathieson
146   Posted 06/11/2011 at 14:15:33

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Wayne (139)

I would love to know where you got your statistics from on spending because since 2003 Moyes has spent £110 million including two seasons of no spend at all which was self induced.
Jamie Barlow
147   Posted 06/11/2011 at 14:34:08

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Praising our fantastic chairman again David? Is it any wonder people cheer that man still?
Steve Sweeney
148   Posted 06/11/2011 at 14:40:51

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"Coming Home to Roost" ? I think this is an ideal analogy. Both Moyes and Kenwright will eventually get what they both deserve, but by then our beloved football club will be in the Championship.

Moyes's teams over the past 3 years have played dire defensive unimaginative football and yet he is still lauded as the greatest manager the world has ever seen. If that were so, why haven't any of the BIG clubs come a calling? Because, my friends, he is not really that good a manager when it comes down to winning.

He just hasn't got that little extra to take it to the next level and I think those that know, know that. Spurs will not touch him with a barge pole. The only place left for him to go after Everton is back to Scotland either as the National Manager, which I don't think he would take, or to Celtic. And all I would say is "Bye Bye, Davey, Take the fucking high road and don't come back."
David Mathieson
149   Posted 06/11/2011 at 14:49:42

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Jamie

It is not praise for the chairman or indeed damming of the chairman; it is just a fact.

You have interpreted it as a postive by the looks of your post, not my own.

Moyes's nil spend over two seasons was because he was happy with what he had; instead of getting rid of Bily and Heitinga then reinvesting, he kept them and went stale.

Bily and Heitinga are dead weight at the club and should have left a long time ago.
Wayne Smyth
150   Posted 06/11/2011 at 15:06:26

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Sorry David(147), I was talking about net transfer spend. Not total spending.

Source: http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2011/08/12/arsenals-net-spending-of-48m-in-a-decade-puts-them-9th-in-premier-league-120802/
Simon Harris
151   Posted 06/11/2011 at 14:59:13

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David, do you honestly believe that if a reasonable bid had come in for Bily that Moyes, Kenwright and more importantly Barclays wouldn't have accepted it?

Bily is Moyes's worst pound for pound signing, and it was a gamble that has clearly failed.

But since then he hasn't had a bean to spend, with players leaving left right and centre.

Do you honestly believe he wouldn't have loved to have retained or at least replaced Pienaar and also add a quality striker? Unfortunately for any manager they usually cost money...which thanks to Blue Bill and his 10 year plan of growth (based on the Greek financial model)...we have none, zilch!

I just can't see past Kenwright and his cronies, for Everton's decline in fortunes.
David Mathieson
152   Posted 06/11/2011 at 15:29:25

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Wayne
There is clearly conflict between your statistics and my own.
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2003-2011.html

Simon

A resonable bid for Billy would be 0 get him of the wage bill he offers nothing and get someone in who can, same for Heitinga. I honetsly believe we could have had both of them out the club at a loss and be better of for it there has been a few decent players available on frees maybe Moyes was too stubborn to admit his mistakes..

There is nothing to say Moyes is not going to have a few £ to spend in the January window everyone thought we had nothing to give Moyes before we spent 15 million on Fellaini.
Wayne Smyth
153   Posted 06/11/2011 at 15:44:05

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David, I've no idea which set of figures is correct. I'd be interested if other people know of different sources. Either way its clear that we have outspent some sides and our football is still dire. Arsenal are an obvious example there of the fact that resources dont have to equal performance if the manager is good.

As for Bily, I honestly think he gets a lot of stick and its not all his fault. Remember how awful Jags was in centre mid? We all know that he's a half-decent centre half.

Well Bily playing as a winger is in exactly the same situation. He doesn't have the footballing ability to play there. He has no pace and he doesn't have the dribbling/agility of a pienaar. Moyes should have known this before he spent £9M of our money on him. Its entirely Moyes fault that we have not seen the best of him.
Gavin Ramejkis
154   Posted 06/11/2011 at 16:21:35

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Graham #137, I'd fully expect the players selected to earn their wage but the old addage of you can't polish a turd also comes into account, McFadden a prime example it simply isn't his fault he isn't a Scottish Rooney or goal machine and it isn't his fault he was signed up by Everton again. Doesn't make his selection over other players any easier to bear, the selections and ebbing lack of guile and appeal in producing worthy football to watch and pay good money for is going down quicker than the Titanic.
Colin Wainwright
155   Posted 06/11/2011 at 16:46:49

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For all his obvious and well highlighted faults, I think this debate about whether DM should go is overshadowing, to some degree, the real issue.

That lying, useless, grey-haired, tossbag and the rest of his clueless board, need to get the fuck out of the club now.
Ray Roche
156   Posted 06/11/2011 at 16:25:13

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Season 2006-2011
Everton

spend-=£64,750,500

sold=£63,750,000

nett spend=£1,000,500

nett per season=£200k,Wigan

£63,500,000

£70,000,000

-£6,500,000

-£1,300,000
Ray Roche
157   Posted 06/11/2011 at 17:10:15

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Above taken from
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/2006-2011.html
Richard Reeves
158   Posted 06/11/2011 at 17:38:30

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How many want Moyes out?Not nearly enough.I'm not sure what worries me the most,Kenright holding onto power or our own fans who the majority believe in the manager.
Brendan McLaughlin
159   Posted 06/11/2011 at 17:49:42

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Richard #159
Why do you think the majority believe in the manager?
John Audsley
160   Posted 06/11/2011 at 14:53:42

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Kenwright should walk away as soon as possible. He and his "mates" on the board are a complete disgrace to our GREAT club. How people can applaud him is beyond me.

Moyes may have out-stayed his welcome but BB will never sack him and its the safest job in the Prem.

The players have been a disgrace this season, they should be ashamnd match tactics.

It's clear to anyone that Strac and Gueye will never start a game unless half the squad dies.

Our club is a a disgrace; Kenwright, Woods et al have destroyed it and now want to make millions before they go. THEY HAVE INVESTED NOTHING into Everton

Moyes to stay for now, Kenwright to fuck off ASAP.
Ian Edwards
161   Posted 06/11/2011 at 18:17:58

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Brendan #160

Because they have been brainwashed by the media to believe that Moyes is doing his best with no money to spend.




Ian Edwards
162   Posted 06/11/2011 at 18:21:21

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I've been supporting and watching Everton for 35 years and the negative tactics, substitutions, players in wrong positions, lack of distance shooting are the worst I have ever seen.

If we finish high in the league then the media say that Moyes has done brilliantly with no money. If the club are near the bottom then they say that what do you expect he has no money.

There is no pressure on Moyes whatsoever.

Does anyone agree with my view that Moyes's post match interview after Newcastle showed a disinterested attitude.
Brendan McLaughlin
163   Posted 06/11/2011 at 18:23:54

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Ian #161
No chance they've taken a long hard look at it & made their own minds up. Perhaps you should do an article on "anti-brainwashing techniques" for us lesser mortals who are obviously much more gullible than you.
Ian Edwards
164   Posted 06/11/2011 at 18:30:20

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Brendan #163

More like they are brain dead after the mind numbing tactics they are having to endure.
Brendan McLaughlin
165   Posted 06/11/2011 at 18:32:25

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Ian #164
How come you ain't affected? Better man?
Ian Edwards
166   Posted 06/11/2011 at 18:34:41

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Brendan #165

Mental strength and a refusal to be brainwashed. I've read 1984 !
Brendan McLaughlin
167   Posted 06/11/2011 at 18:37:19

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Ian #166
So the great unwashed of the majority of Blues don't have mental strength & have'nt read a book?
Clive Lewis
168   Posted 06/11/2011 at 19:05:40

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Moyes is an average manager. Managers like Brendon Rogers can do it with little money. Watching Swansea out pass Liverpool shows it can be done with even less money. I think the reality is we are accepting this garbage and with money I would probably expect moyes to sign more yaks, billy, heitinga etc. Look at the Straqualarsi fiasco seriously couldn't he find anyone better?
Clive Lewis
169   Posted 06/11/2011 at 19:05:40

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Moyes is an average manager. Managers like Brendon Rogers can do it with little money. Watching Swansea out pass Liverpool shows it can be done with even less money. I think the reality is we are accepting this garbage and with money I would probably expect moyes to sign more yaks, billy, heitinga etc. Look at the Straqualarsi fiasco seriously couldn't he find anyone better?
Brendan McLaughlin
170   Posted 06/11/2011 at 19:22:00

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Too right Clive...average managers get their team to finish at the business end of the premiership...7 or so seasons out of ten.
Martin Handley
171   Posted 06/11/2011 at 19:14:55

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I am now more fearful for the club now than I was back in the Walker days. Moyes has needed someone above him a director of football if you like to curb his fatalistic inclinations. Much as some people will mock I would like to suggest Joe Royle a man who loves the club is great in a dog fight and who can actually coach players to attack. This would only be until the end of the season to see us safe in the prem. Then in the summer this mess of a club we all love so much can hopefully be sorted out. By that I mean getting rid of Moyes, the board, the heads of all the delta financial, commercial etc and really starting afresh. So yes I am all in favour of binning Moyes , but if he went right now who the hell would we get in the mess we're in?
Martin Handley
172   Posted 06/11/2011 at 19:14:55

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I am now more fearful for the club now than I was back in the Walker days. Moyes has needed someone above him a director of football if you like to curb his fatalistic inclinations. Much as some people will mock I would like to suggest Joe Royle a man who loves the club is great in a dog fight and who can actually coach players to attack. This would only be until the end of the season to see us safe in the prem. Then in the summer this mess of a club we all love so much can hopefully be sorted out. By that I mean getting rid of Moyes, the board, the heads of all the delta financial, commercial etc and really starting afresh. So yes I am all in favour of binning Moyes , but if he went right now who the hell would we get in the mess we're in?
Martin Handley
173   Posted 06/11/2011 at 21:31:17

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That's what happens when you use the mobile web....sorry guys!
Jonathan Tasker
174   Posted 06/11/2011 at 22:19:25

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I want Moyes and Kenwright out.

Sick of hearing who would you have instead.

Currently, I know more about footy than Moyes.

A midfield of Neville, Osman, Coleman, Drenthe and Rodwell shows he hasn't got a clue.
Russell Buckley
175   Posted 06/11/2011 at 23:07:18

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Moyes has frustrated me to no end in the last year or two but I don't believe we can get much better in if he leaves.

The other thing I'd like to suggest is that Moyes would only walk if he didn't think he could keep us up. Putting aside any frustrations you have with his tactics etc its widely known that Moyes works like a machine. He puts in massive hours and has a great work ethic. He has also stated many a time how much he respects the club, the fans and Bill.

I honestly think that Moyes's dedication and work ethic is as strong as reported. I think he wouldn't even be considering walking at the moment. He would see it as letting people down. He looks like a beaten man at times but I wouldn't be shocked if he was working even harder at the moment.

Mark Wilson
176   Posted 06/11/2011 at 22:04:06

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Sadly football is TOTALLY about the "now" and not the past. I suggest that very few Birmingham fans rate McLeish for winning a cup then taking them down. Moyes has surely been a very good manager here, he has led a team which punched above its weight. He made some aweful signings and some very, very good ones and I'm thinking his success ratio in the market is better than most. Contrary to the wider public view, he HAS had some money to spend but it's his less expensive signings that were most successful.

But, regardless of whether BK is at fault for wider failings at the club, regardless of the terrible impact of pathetic funding for the last three transfer windows, Moyes DOES still have a squad capable of better things than the way we have completed over a quarter of this season. How can you ignore the guys increasingly depressive appearances before the cameras ? He looks and sounds a beaten man BEFORE we start games, he sounds resigned afterwards. He's picking defensive line ups that have a feel of desperation and just doesn't seem able to change things and give us that extra gear.

But it is of course nonsense not to link this to the performance of certain players this season. Cahill hasn't scored for nearly a year, Phil zneville, never the greatest but a very good skipper, looks like he's gone backwards. Saha looks classy but just for a few minutes of most games. The superb Bainsey remains our best player by a country mile but even his game is off this season. Fellani is a class act but he lacks consistency during games and Jags is clearly in a poor run of form. Taken together Moyes has a lot on his plate but truth is he just won't or can't "give it a go", he seems incapable of risking getting blathered. Me? I'd accept a going over cos we got caught out going forward too much.... if in the next two games the tactic produced four or six points.

This debate isn't about DM getting sacked, it ain't going to happen, it's about whether Moyes can pick up on mass fan anger and frustration at his approach and change things, take a few risks. It's about resting some players and again, taking risks by giving young Ross a run in the centre of midfield and accepting some mistakes in the hope of better things to come. Rodwell is only just starting to show a little of the form that generated all that OTT hype. He and RB in the centre? Why not give it a go? Why not change the approach and turn out less defensive line ups, particularly at home.

The ownership row will rumble on. Finances will remain dire this year and probably next. What really matters NOW is that we stay up and in the process look to rediscover that fighting spirit that seems to have deserted us ? Moyes, BK won't sack you so....you have a huge responsibility to us and him...get stuck in and pull it round.
Robert Daniels
177   Posted 07/11/2011 at 00:12:56

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Dave Wilson,

I think I agree to that!

But we still need them both gone, Moyes and that twat Kenwright...
Eric Myles
178   Posted 07/11/2011 at 01:15:24

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Jonathan #175 "A midfield of Neville, Osman, Coleman, Drenthe and Rodwell shows he hasn't got a clue."

Well the problem is they are the most experienced players we have available. Just look at our bench and who is on it? 2 injured players and 5 who haven't had a game in a couple of years.

Who would YOU put in instead? Bily who gets slated? and Gueye who hasn't had a start yet? They are the 2 midfielders on the bench besides the injured Cahill who clearly needs a rest.

Jason Lam
179   Posted 07/11/2011 at 03:20:41

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I've stopped following the transfer windows until the very last hours (minutes) on the last day. Recently I've stopped taking interest in the team until after January when Moyes finally gets the team clicking. It's not good for your health these transfer windows and first half of the season. The season starts Feb 1.
Chris Fisher
180   Posted 07/11/2011 at 11:54:25

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The most ridiculous thing I have read in this thread was 'if Moyes stays we will get relegated.' ? We won't get relegated at all. But we need to go on a run quickly, that's for certain....

Looking at our fixtures from now until 1 February, there is only one game in the Premier League from now until then that we should even come close to losing and that is against Arsenal away. Apart from that, I expect us to now win all of our games up until 1 February which would take us to 40 points.
Liam Young
181   Posted 07/11/2011 at 12:58:53

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A year ago, I would never have said Moyes out, but I am not so sure anymore, his tactics have been very negative and poor all season, Barkley started the season positive, and now he is not playing him, he may be young but, he is creative, attacking and good enough for the team. Straqualursi gets signed, and it looks like he wont play. Gueye is supposed to be good, but he wont play, Bilyaletdinov is not good enough maybe, but moyes wont play him as attacking midfield, instead putting a guy on the wing with no pace. BUT, he will choose tim cahill and Leon Osman no matter what they do.

I am losing patience with Moyes, Kenwright, they can preach they got no money, but this isn;t all about that, but when you have a group of players and your not using them to their best abilities, then that's the managers fault not doing a good enough job.

I think Moyes and Kenwright are too friendly and comfortable at Everton, they say they have a unique relationship, well thats not healthy, if anyone is in a job and they don't get pushed by the bosses above to acheive, you become complacent, this is what is happening at everton, negative thinking is all over the place with manager, owner, and its filtering down to the players and knocking their confidence.
It;s sad to see the state of our club, but Moyes and Kenwright are to blame.

We need a change, and fast.
Andrew Ellams
182   Posted 07/11/2011 at 13:35:39

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Chris #181, serious or tongue in cheek?
Richard Reeves
183   Posted 07/11/2011 at 13:31:19

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Ian,163# Aint that the truth,completely agree.
Brendan,I'm sure that the majority of fans on toffeeweb would want Moyes sacked and i only wish it did represent the majority of our fan base but i think there are still to many out there who defend Moyes with the no money excuse,hands tied behind your back bullshit.Why do i think the majority of fans believe in the manager?I think the relegation battles from previous seasons have bread contempt in our supporters but the main reason is the media.Moyes is never criticised for his mistakes yet is applauded for his achievements.
Richard Reeves
184   Posted 07/11/2011 at 14:29:32

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Chris,can you send me some of that stuff you're on?
Anthony Millington
185   Posted 07/11/2011 at 14:50:51

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Eric, who's fault is it that we've got that midfield? Is it not Moyes' fault that we have to settle for the mediocre Coleman in midfield every game? He's spent 10 mill on Bily! He could have signed a number of players much cheaper than this that would walk into our team e.g. Odemwingie was 2 million! Guus Hiddink had said that he wasn't convinced Bily would have the pace to adapt to the Premier League and Moyes went and signed him anyway!

I'm convinced Gueye would do not worse than what the current team are doing, yet he doesn't even get on the bench? Considering we are in debt, we've missed out on millions on the way we've handled the departures of Gosling, Pienaar, Yobo and Yak and so we have no money to replace them!
Robert Daniels
186   Posted 07/11/2011 at 17:49:33

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Chris we'll be lucky to beat Wolves..........

It's illegal to smoke that as well.
Eric Myles
187   Posted 08/11/2011 at 05:29:43

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But Anthony, Odemwingie was 2 million that we haven't got! And the reason why we haven't got money to spend on players? And why Pienaar, Yobo, Yak and Arteta HAD to be sold?

With Bily, Moyes took a chance on an experienced international player on the recommendation of his experienced national coach. It hasn't worked out, or maybe it could still if he's played in the right position.

That's where Moyes fails, putting the players he's got into the right positions.

Maybe Gueye would improve our team, or maybe he will be just like the last flavour of the month Velios, who could only last one half of a match against Fulham. And then who have we got to call on from the bench? still the same players that you think are not good enough!!!!
Eugene Ruane
188   Posted 09/11/2011 at 19:50:53

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Out!

(like a light preferably)
Ray Said
189   Posted 09/11/2011 at 19:56:29

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Out-sooner the better. Should have been gone 5 years ago
Mick Davies
190   Posted 10/11/2011 at 04:42:51

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Chris @ 181. What are these games you expect us to win? I expected us to win at home to a promoted club who'd just been twatted 4-0 at home to Bolton! not Man U or City or Chelsea but Bolton. 4th from bottom of the league and looking like a defeated side even before a ball is kicked has got me really worried. I think we may need a fresh face to come in with a new broom and sweep away all the negativity that clouds our once proud club. It's gone too stale and the only way is looking down

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