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Moyes is unbelievable

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So Moyes's post match comment is ''he is satisfied despite the defeat''.

Doesn't that just take the biscuit?

How many times must we need convincing about his negative attitude. If he is satisfied then the players must be also, as to be unsatisfied might show they are against him and that might warrant a fine or a dropping!!

Seriously though, this is just pathetic from a man who not too many seasons ago was held in high esteem by some.

Is there absolutely anything we can look forward to, either this season or next, except maybe his warranted sacking and a big investor coming in?
Tom Bowers, Canada     Posted 12/01/2012 at 00:37:28

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Paul Holmes
797   Posted 12/01/2012 at 02:01:10

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A team has not had a shot on target in 5 premier league games this season. In 3 of those games the team was Everton!

This just about sums up Moyes, his players, tactics and his bad decisions regarding transfers (Yakubu).

Russell Buckley
807   Posted 12/01/2012 at 03:03:08

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Not even going to detabe those stats Paul as I beleive them completely after watching us play through the season.

Even if we are a sinking ship, some flair and ambition on the pitch would go a long way to some.

The only highlight I took from that Match was Neville's tackle....that's it...
Jamie Sweet
809   Posted 12/01/2012 at 03:00:43

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For the manager of our club to be satisfied with failure is an absolute disgrace and an insult to all of us.


I played 6-a-side on Tuesday night. We lost 5-4. I scored 4. Was I satisfied at the end of the game? No, I was totally fucking pissed off that we lost. But then again I am a bad loser. But as a wise man once said "show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser".

Surely only a loser would be satisfied with a defeat. With every game that passes, the high regard I once had for Moyes sinks lower and lower and lower.
Frank McGregor
811   Posted 12/01/2012 at 04:01:46

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I have always supported Moyes as manager and given him the benefit of doubt for the longest time; however, I am now of the opinion although I find it hard to admit that I believe David Moyes is now at the end of his time at Everton.

It appears he is incapable of making the required changes to personnel and the syle of play. Continually playing Saha and Cahill is not the answer, he has players on his staff I believe can perform better than the ones being played week after week.
Callum Wilson
817   Posted 12/01/2012 at 04:48:42

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We have now lost 10 premier league games out of 20 exactly half and only 5 teams have lost more. 3 of them have lost 1 more being Wolves, QPR and Wigan all lost 11, Blackburn have lost 12 and Bolton 14. Admittedly some of our losses have been against good teams but surely losing half of the games so far this season is not acceptable.

I believe we aren't one of the worst 3 teams in the league 3 of the aforementioned are, so I believe we probably won't be relegated and will pick up more points in the 2nd half of the season but this simply isn't good enough.

It's starting to be not just Kenwright and the board I want out, I'm really starting to question how much I want Moyes around here because if we were lucky enough to get some new owners who actually invested in the club (I know the stuff of dreams right, owners who actually invest it's crazy talk) and Moyes was given say the war chest of Sunderland or since we are being hypothetical say Tottenham then would he even be able to spend it very well as most of his big money signings haven't been his best!
Karl Jones
832   Posted 12/01/2012 at 07:03:18

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Stale manager, stale players. All are too comfortable with huge pay packets and little chance of being replaced. we have become a squad that accepts loss too easily.
Roman Sidey
834   Posted 12/01/2012 at 07:28:15

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Tom, some of the other quotes in his post-match interview were worse than the one you used too.

"The players did everything they were asked to do."

Well, David, maybe you should ask them to actually go after the ball rather than watch it into the feet of the opposition. Or, if they do everything they are asked to, why don't you simply ask them to score some goals?
George McKane
835   Posted 12/01/2012 at 07:32:14

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Spurs TWO - Everton NOTHING
Michael Brien
836   Posted 12/01/2012 at 07:30:40

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Moyes has become predictable and stale in his tactics - yes he changed things around at West Brom - but a good manager would have made the changes at half time. I have to agree with Callum - if a new investor/investors came in and Moyes had a " war chest" of say £50/60M would he spend it wisely ? I have my doubts.

The question we should be asking is could another manager get more out of our squad/better use our squad - I think that the answer to that is yes.
Anthony Hughes
842   Posted 12/01/2012 at 07:52:29

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Just not an acceptable attitude to have from a manager of our great football club.
Kevy Quinn
851   Posted 12/01/2012 at 08:51:46

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I think we can all accept that Spurs are a better side than us, its the way we go about trying to play.

Even playing 442 we still looked shit, how Saha is still getting 90mins is an insult! Play a kid from the under 18s he would be more use! As for Billy, iv always gave him the benefit of doubt because hes not a left winger and Moyes insists on playing there, but after playing against Tamworth in centre midfield and playing shite then playing shite against Spurs in left wing when Drenthe n Gueye are the bench is criminal!

Moyes comments dont suprise me as its clear his heart isnt in it anymore. Wish hed leave so I can continue to at least respect him as with each passing game it feels like hes just trying to piss us all off!
Neil Pickering
855   Posted 12/01/2012 at 09:09:10

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Moyes's defeatist attitude is almost certainly seeping through to the players. We are beaten before we go on the pitch, and are not even trying to go out with a plan to win games.

In this instance, I find it hard to point the finger at the players, especially when Moyes said that last night they played how he wanted them to! Not a shot on target in anger? Is that what he wants? Really?

I know he has been crapped on from a great height for years now by our beloved chairman, but the buck stops with him in my opinion. Either motivate the team to have a go, or do the decent thing and resign!
Tony J Williams
857   Posted 12/01/2012 at 09:17:57

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I was fully expecting to wake up and read that Moyes had quit this morning.

I doubt we will be able to put a full subs bench out at the weekend.

No money again for the 3rd straight season. Unfortunately he feels some loyalty to the players he signed and for some unknown reason he probably feels some loyalty to us....you know the fans who call his a coward etc

I expect a O'Neill exit, "Where's the money?" or he will see out his contract and do one.

All these people mentioning his wages, who are the dopes who rubber stamped it? The fuckwits running the club.
Kevin Tully
861   Posted 12/01/2012 at 09:37:02

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For all his faults, we shouldn't blame Moyes for this defeat.

With all our injuries and threadbare squad, I expected nothing.

Our regular first-teamers know there is no pressure on their place in the side, a recipe for football by numbers.

We are sinking in quicksand, let's give Bill a round of applause.

Stephen Kenny
864   Posted 12/01/2012 at 09:46:21

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If this was Stoke, Bolton, Wolves etc. I'd slate him and say what a disgrace those comments are. But after watching us go to the second best side in the league and have as good a go as you can with half a team injured I can understand his comments.

We genuinely tried to win the match and had Louis hit the target with two good chances and we get the rub with Roystons pen then we get something. all if and buts but sometimes that's how it is.

I was gutted watching because it's shows how far back we have gone and how far forward Spurs have moved when we have had the beating of them the past 3/4 years.

I'd have played Vellios ahead of Saha, but even then their main striker earns in 4 days what we paid for the kid.
Paul Gladwell
865   Posted 12/01/2012 at 09:55:50

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I cannot have a go at Moyes for last night, he can only do so much with the squad against teams like Spurs, its the home games against shite where he has no excuse.
Tommy Coleman
867   Posted 12/01/2012 at 09:55:03

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All those satisfied with ''he is satisfied despite the defeat'' are a disagrace to Everton's history, your attitudes are as bad as Moyes's.

I want Moyes to go ASAP, I cannot stand his his sulking defeatism, and it's only getting worse as the season goes on. He that fella won £99m on the Euro Lottery he'd complain and sulk that it wan't £100m.
David Denby
870   Posted 12/01/2012 at 09:58:31

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I believe Moyes has now sunk to an all time low duirng his time here. No, we can't blame him for having no money to spend and yes we are better off now then when he first joined us. However to hear him state that he was satisfied with the result just beggars belief. For a start if Kentwat had anything about him he'd be pulling Moyes in to explain himself. We are short of funds with dwindling attendances and then the manager goes and says he's satisfied with getting beaten! I'm sorry but that is just not on.

I don't think many of us expected to get a result last night but to compound it with statements like that, to me, more than illustrates that he either doesn't give a shit anymore or he's playing a dangerous game with our club and trying to shame Kentwat into doing something about it.

We can all see it on here that our 'football' this year has been poor to put it politely. Nearly every other team you watch highlights of can, at least at some point during a match, attack with purpose and pace and finish with an attempt on target. Why can't we do it? Just what the hell do they do each day in training? Bet Moyes and Round are made up there's no public footpath going past Finch Farm like Man City. Stop even more people from taking the piss! I seem to remember many years ago videos being shown to the squad of past glories, big victories to just to show again what this club means to everyone. Maybe that might be a start followed by putting up huge pictures of what a goalmouth looks like.

I woke up in not too bad a mood today but fuck me my veins are ready to pop now. Don't know what I'll be like when the Neville/Cahill public relations machine gets going! AARRGHH!!!!!!
Andrew Ellams
872   Posted 12/01/2012 at 10:16:26

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Tony J, surely if he was going to say where is the money he would have done so by now.

At least he won't waste of his piss poor transfer budget on some central midfielder who isn't as good as the players we already have at the club. Oh hang on........
Dave Roberts
873   Posted 12/01/2012 at 09:44:56

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Quite frankly I have had enough of this. I am not a rich man, I live on an occupational pension but not yet old enough for my state pension. The lump sum I got with my pension withers by about £500 every year to buy my season ticket and that won't last forever. That is my contribution to the club I have supported for over 50 years. But what do I get in return?

If I got total honesty I would still buy my ticket. If I got total effort from the Board I would still buy my ticket. If we had a team that was as good as it possibly could be in the circumstances I would still buy my ticket. To an extent I understood the sale of Yakubu and the others. The club were under pressure from the bank to repay some of the debt and that was the only way it could be done in the short term. In a way I could even understand the Fortress debacle as a way of getting rid of boardroom strife which seemed at the time to have its origins in Gregg, a downright lie but maybe (or so I thought at the time) a necessary one.

However, the sale of Arteta and the lies around it has done it for me. Like somebody else has already said, it seemed like good business at the time, he had given us his best years. The club went to great pains to explain that Arteta didn't need to be sold and that they didn't want to sell him. The move was at his request and the money would be available for Moyes and we could possibly get a couple of half decent players out of the proceeds. I was banking on that to rescue this season as well as rekindling my enthusiasm.

The club wrung an apology out of the Echo for suggesting the Arteta money would not be going to the bank and would not be made available for the manager. The club's assertion that it would be made available to Moyes was a downright lie, a lie that with the best will in the world and all the contorted thoughts I can muster I can not find an excuse or reason for. And now we have Moyes lying too. It must be catching. He tells us everybody knew the money would be going to the bank.

Oh no we didn't Davey, because we were told it would be made available to you. Do you take us for fucking fools? If the bank wanted £10m from the club how does that square with not having to sell the player who brought that money in? If you didn't have to sell him how would the club have got that £10m to repay to the bank? If everybody knew the money was going to the bank then why ask the Echo for an apology for saying just that?

For me, the benefit of the doubt I was always happy to lend to the club has evaporated because now there is no doubt. There is no doubt that the club is run by incompetent liars. Incompetent in running the business and that is why they have to lie, time and time again.

I tried to find a way of getting this message onto the official site but can't send any message at all without registering and I can't be arsed doing that. It would probably be moderated away anyway. Does anybody have an email address I could use apart from the box-office one that I already have?

I just want to tell the club that I have given up. There will be no season ticket for me next year. And I would like to see their reply....if I got one.
Dave Wilson
878   Posted 12/01/2012 at 10:12:17

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I Cant believe there are people who would read or listen to that interview and come to the conlusion that Moyes was "satisfied with ther result"

Do they not understand English ?

These closet Kenwright supporters who spend their time trying to deflect the blame need to grow some bollocks, at least have the courrage to stand up and say where they stand.

Maybe when we dont have enough players left to field a side the penny willl drop.

Moyes had to send arl has beens like Neville, Cahill, Saha - not to mention 35 year old Distin against an expensively assembled Spurs team full of pace, power and skill . .yet these people want to continue to deflect the blame away from the guy responsible for that.

I sometime think these lads at BU are pissing against the wind
Mark Jensen
880   Posted 12/01/2012 at 10:39:19

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Dave Roberts - I agree 100% with your email and you summed up all the reasons why I walked away at the end of last season.
I have been lambasted by freinds, family and Toffeeweb for my actions but what else can I do?
I am so unhappy with EFC at the moment that I did not even listen to the match last night as the result was inevitable. In fact, the performance was inevitable, try and nick a goal.
Every game Moyes manages he goes for nil-nil.
Can't write any more as too pissed off to be bothered.
Will miss Everton, but as I said before, what can I do?
Andrew Laird
882   Posted 12/01/2012 at 10:38:48

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Dave Wilson, are these the same players (Neville, Cahill) who only recently signed bumper extension deals to stay at Everton until they were in their late 60's?

Who is responsible for that? Is it Bill or is it the manager?.
Dick Fearon
883   Posted 12/01/2012 at 09:57:53

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I gave up on Moyes a couple of years ago. His team selection, deployment and timing of subs, negative tactics, pre match whinging and farcical post match comments all point to him being a loser.
What possible excuse or sensible reason can there possibly be why the fruit of his decade long tenure as manager is a team of highly paid professionals cannot take a single shot on target in three games.
What the hell does he and his cohorts do at Finch Farm that results in such a shameful statistic.
Kenwright is quick to blame fans who protest yet is quite happy for those same fans to pay good money only to suffer Moyes anti football regime.
At present he can and does use injuries as justification for his bog standard ineptitude but his performance was equally as bad when we were injury free.
Chris Fisher
885   Posted 12/01/2012 at 10:51:08

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No, there is certainly nothing to look forward too this season.
Mike Allison
887   Posted 12/01/2012 at 10:51:05

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He didn't say he was satisfied "with the result".

Lets try to keep facts straight while we wail and gnash our teeth.
Dave Wilson
888   Posted 12/01/2012 at 10:46:40

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Andrew

Most clubs would want to keep the sevices and utilise the experience of players like Cahill and Neville, they could prove invaluable in helping newer, younger players develop at the football club . .but we dont buy any younger newer players, we are asking these guys to do a job they did five years ago.

Who`s to blame for that ? Well I believe thats just about incontestable.
Tommy Coleman
889   Posted 12/01/2012 at 11:00:55

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Dave Wilson - He was satisfied with the performance despite us not having a shot on goal.

Why can you never ever accept any critisim of him ?
Are you an Everton fan or David Moyes fan ?
Andrew Laird
891   Posted 12/01/2012 at 11:05:04

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So Dave which are they "arl has been's" or "invaluable, experienced footballers"?
Karl Meighan
892   Posted 12/01/2012 at 11:03:48

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Most of us understand there is no money and the line that the Arteta money was for Moyes in January was bullshit but its the insulting comments from Moyes that annoy me more than anything.

We all go and watch the games so to have Moyes tell us were playing quite well lately and Anichebe has the potential to be top class and many more? Football is a game of opinions but i am afraid Moyes talks more shite than Liverpool fans. Rather than insult fans intelligence it would be better to say nothing or even send Round to do interviews as i doubt even he could talk as much shite as Moyes.
Barry Rathbone
893   Posted 12/01/2012 at 11:13:18

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Anyone making excuses for the Moyes/Kenwright combo at this stage of the demise can't be taken seriously.

Circa 10 and 12 years these 2 have been in control, the false dawn has well and truly gone.

Propaganda surrounding the Arteta transfer is the final act of desperate men.

Shamefully It really is about Prem survival now.
John Ford
895   Posted 12/01/2012 at 11:29:15

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He said we did alright but lacked up front. Sounds about right to me. He also commented on the resource issue again. To me most of what Moyes says these days is targetted at Kenwight.
Dan McKie
897   Posted 12/01/2012 at 11:31:46

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So is there any chance of the Blue Union taking the protests into the stadium now? Or will it be another march down the road singing 'let go if you love the club'?
Kevin Sparke
898   Posted 12/01/2012 at 11:17:13

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Sometimes on this site you get the feeling you've stumbled into a scene of the film/book 1984. The scene when the image of Emmanuel Goldstein's image is flashed on the big screens and the party members try to outdo each other in outrage...

It's not very edifying for those involved.

I could just about understand this, some would argue OTT criticism of Kenwright - but David Moyes?.. nope, leave me out of that one.

Try this little trick if you're bored with mouth foaming: If you list all of the teams since the Premier League began in order of the amount of money they've spent on players, something remarkable emerges... The average finishing position almost exactly mirrors the amount of money they've spent on players... I say almost - because one team bucks the trend:

Everton FC

When Moyes goes at the end of this season (and go he will) It's going to be interesting to see if this trend of beating the spending odds continues - I'm not so sure it will. In fact, if we don't find a benefactor we're probably going to find out how low we've sunk.

Sad times to be a blue.
Dave Wilson
901   Posted 12/01/2012 at 11:05:16

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Tommy Coleman.

It cost me the best part of 200 quid to get to last nights match and I spent most of it screaming at Moyes.

I`ll accept poor form if somebody is giving his best, but I feel physically sick when I see people like Bily and his shoulders shrugging, couldnt give a fuck attitude. I want to put my fist into Moyse`s face when he lets this go on while Drenthe is sitting right behind him.

When young Duffy made to look foolish and was jeered by the home crowd because not one of the senior pros came to his assistance, I was so angry with Moyes for not bolocking the lot of them, I was actually told to calm down by a Stewart.
Do you really think I am blind to his flaws ? Do you really think ANYBODY is ?

I hate whats happening at our club at the moment, but I feel ashamed when I read and hear people talking of their "hatred" for the manager. I will continue to support him, because I believe this "hatred" is both unfair and misplaced and can only be detrimental to EFC.

This manager is not one of us, he`s a hired hand, but I think he is an honourable man does a decent job working under impossible circumstances and I will not participate in the daily ritual of distorting and twisting everything he says and does.


I repeat anybody who has read or heard this interview and came to the conclusion that Moyes was "satisfied with the result" is either being DELIBERATELY unfair, misreading the article, or is just stupid.
Dave Wilson
904   Posted 12/01/2012 at 11:43:16

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Andrew#891

They are arl, They are has-beens, but they are also vastly experienced and can be invaluable to this club.

Why does it have to be either /or ?
Karl Meighan
905   Posted 12/01/2012 at 11:38:59

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Kevin beating spending clubs? Moyes has never won at Anfield, Old Trafford, Stanford Bridge or the Emirates. Five goals scored in a game less than ten times in ten years.

Its not all about money and Moyes has done well in previous seasons but the situation today with the first team is a problem brought about by bringing players threw or into the Club who lack the basics of first touch awareness and players who have no confidence in whatever ability they may have.

Moyes brought some outstanding players to the Club on the same shoestring so he himself has proved its not impossible to build a team capable of competing with the Leagues best.
Eddie Cotton
907   Posted 12/01/2012 at 11:31:57

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In regards to that 'missing' £10 million for Arteta, and the club's sense of outrage in forcing the Liverpool Echo to print an apology when they dared to suggest that the money would NOT be available in January. Well, I'll say this....it would be folly to rely on local sports journalists to fight for truth and justice on this issue, certainly after listening to Mike Hughes's post match comments after last night's game at White Hart Lane.

He said..."Everybody knows there's no money as David Moyes has been saying this for the past few weeks.'" Well, I'm sorry, but why did the club bully the local paper to print a retraction when the Echo dared to suggest this statement to be true just a few months back? This is what should be investigated, and if it isn't then collusion between club and local sports journalists is my only assumption.

Until sports journalists grow a pair and stop suck holing the club...probably through fear of jeopardising their cosy and safe relationship with the manager and Chairman, then the local media charade will continue apace.

My advice for you Evertonians who seek change is to continue demanding accountability and transparency, both of your club and the local sporting media. Good luck.
Tony J Williams
908   Posted 12/01/2012 at 11:54:17

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"Five goals scored in a game less than ten times in ten years" - What's that got to do with the price of fish?
David Harrison
909   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:01:47

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A home defeat against Blackburn may well bring the curtain down on DMs reign. I cannot imagine anyone being able to defend that-apart from BK obviously
Tony J Williams
910   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:04:38

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"My advice for you Evertonians who seek change is to continue demanding accountability and transparency." ? Sounds great... but the problem is that Kenwright doesn't have to be transparent to the fans.
Robert Johnson
911   Posted 12/01/2012 at 11:30:04

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Im sat here this morning after the spurs defeat not giving a fuck anymore, I said to a friend after the game that moyes would be happy with 2-0 defeat, and low and behold he was.

So im really asking myself now, what's the fucking point.?

All those stay away Evertonians are way ahead of me, They have seen this coming before i did, put it down to blind loyalty or whatever the reason, but it stops now.

I give on Everton as they are, in thier current situation,i will not be going back to goodison again until something positive happens.

For those of you who will say, you never give up on your team, ill say this. Ive been going to goodison for 45 years, and this is some of the worst football ive seen in that time.

David Moyes no longer deserves to be in charge of this football club. The job has become too big for him, and this club is too big for David Moyes.
Daniel A Johnson
912   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:04:21

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Moyes now for his own reputation needs to come out and criticise his chairman.

Because by saying nothing he is just dropping further and further down in my estimation and also ruining his reputation.

Proud and honourable man maybe.

But for fucks sake David give kenwright both barrells in the press soon please. You must yourself put him under pressure.
Ray Robinson
914   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:16:08

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Daniel Johnson, spot on.
Robbie Muldoon
917   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:12:05

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Moyes is the epitomy of the word loser. I dare anybody to prove that statement wrong.
Matt Butlin
918   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:22:41

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Robbie Muldoon, check his bank balance. That should be proof enough.
Matt Butlin
919   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:24:04

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I agree with Daniel Johnson also. If I sat here without the tools I needed to do the job I'm expected to do, I'd be screaming blue murder.

Moyes needs to stop towing the corporate line and start pointing fingers.
Brian Denton
921   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:39:40

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"Moyes is the epitomy of the word loser. I dare anybody to prove that statement wrong."

Wrong spelling of epitome. Do I win the cigar?
Robbie Muldoon
922   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:35:46

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OK Matt, he is a winner in that respect! But in the world of competition he always comes up short, couldn't even get Preston promoted.

Speaking of Preston, remember the Preston Perspective article published on this site years ago, the views of a Preston fan who said Moyes had earned the nickname Dithering Dave during his time at Deepdale? Well as has been demonstrated during his time at Everton he really does dither, wether it's transfers, substitutions, or his own fucking 65k contract - why do people expect him to suddenly turn on Kenwright!? Calm down people he is thinking about it!

Ideal scenario for me would be his resignation citing lack of boardroom support, hey presto we are free of a stale uninspiring defeatist football manager and then the tide of the pro Moyes and Kenwright group would surely turn on Billy Bullshitter and make his position very very uncomfortable and hasten his exit. We can then at least hope that things may get better because we are only going one way right now.
Robbie Muldoon
923   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:45:18

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Please don't let my appalling spelling undermine my opinion! :s
Tim Spring
924   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:38:31

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Robert 911 If the club is too big for Moyes and he goes, who would we get in. If you were a succesful person in your field, would you apply for a job that came with this advert?
We will offer you;
No Budget
Under performing staff
A chairman with no concept of running the company
You'll have to sell assets before we can buy, and those we sell will pay off the bank debts first.
But we still want you to perform above a reasonale expectation because we used to be great.

No one would touch us unless they are coming up from the lower leagues and there is a massive risk there - lets not forget that when we got Moyes from Preston he was given money to spend. Anyone coming in would have to sell Rodwell, Fellaini, Baines and Barkley and try to build a team that could stay in the league.
Kenwright + Football = Relegation or worse, administration.
Brian Denton
925   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:47:11

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Robbie, don't worry - your opinion isn't undermined in the least by my clever-dick pedantry !
Tony J Williams
926   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:47:47

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His team beat Tamworth 2-0. A loser would have lost that game.
Chris Leyland
927   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:49:01

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"Moyes Is the epitome of a loser" ... Prove me wrong

As Everton Manager

P450
W187
D114
L149

Win ratio 41.56%
Lose ratio 33%
Andy Crooks
928   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:37:03

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Dave Wilson@# 901. A good post. I have been relentless in my criticism for Moyes for quite a few years but we are where we are because of Kemwright and the board. The club is dying a slow death and replacing Moyes might well provide a short term fix,However the spiral is downward and can only be stopped by a new owner. Unlike some I don't believe we are safe from relegation and right now I will happily see David Moyes grind us to safety.Of course it's now what I'd prefer but right now I'll take it.
Tim Spring
929   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:47:58

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But I am not saying keeping Moyes is the answer. I think he has been given enough time to prove his stance on either the finances or the potential for investment and amend his tactics/ player selection to at least give us a shot on target at some point during a game.
The saddest thing for me is that watching Everton doesn't even make me angry anymore, I bet I could call the game blindfolded and pretty much get Moyes decisions, tactics and subs right give or take 5 mins!
Robbie Muldoon
931   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:54:12

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The only big game I can think of that we have won under Moyes, when the pressure was really on was the Duncan Ferguson goal against Man United at Goodison 2005... When we expect, he usually fails.
Matt Butlin
932   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:46:14

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"Stale, uninspiring, defeatist" is correct all round. My main gripe is that we don't even have a go at teams. Our midfield is so often by-passed by the long ball from Howard or [insert defender's name] rendering it useless. The lack of movement and number of times we hand the ball back to the opposition is killing us both on the pitch and attendance-wise.

The two Villa fans I sit opposite are drooling about Saturday (the match... not their weekly visit to KFC).
Anthony Hughes
935   Posted 12/01/2012 at 13:17:28

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With a tricky up coming fixture away to Villa and with our current injury problems what will be deemed a satisfactory result against them. 2-0 defeat, 1-0 defeat, a draw? Where is the line drawn when a performance is judged to be unsatisfactory?
Andrew Laird
937   Posted 12/01/2012 at 13:01:13

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Dave #904

One definition renders them not good enough while the other makes them useful.

With our current wage expenditure (Smallest squad in Premier league, yet nowhere near the smallest wage bill!) these two will be among the highest earners and are literally contributing nothing NOW, will only get even worse with old age yet both are here for another 2/3 years on a guaranteed weekly wage. (£4 million between them?)

Like you said in an earlier post, there are no new young players being bought in and the youngsters we do have are constantly overlooked for these "has beens", yet their experience can help IF we sign young players.... we don't. So they are NOT useful then!!

Kenwright is the public figurehead for the other idiots in charge and Moyes is the puppet that Kenwright controls. They are all complicit and part of the same problem..
Tony J Williams
939   Posted 12/01/2012 at 13:28:48

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Why does it stop at Moyes Andrew? Surely the players are also puppets? However they get off scott free,

Saha is missing shots all over the show but it's Moyes's fault (he would be booted to the kerb if we had a replacement for him but replacements cost money)
Andrew Laird
944   Posted 12/01/2012 at 13:41:53

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Fair enough Tony, the players are Moyes' puppets, who are acting out the managers instructions on the pitch. They constantly look like they have no idea whatsoever of what they are supposed to be doing and look scared to try anything out of the ordinary. More than a few are underperforming but they are shit anyway, right?
Andrew Laird
946   Posted 12/01/2012 at 13:49:58

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If a team is set up to play defensively but reliant on a striker who must defend from the front, try to beat two 6 ft 4 centre backs in the air, hold the ball up while the midfield who are 40 yards away slowly trickle forward to support him, take 1 in every 2 chances he will get in 90 minutes, why exactly have we been set up to play this way when we have never had the funds for that prolific "world class" striker?
Tom Bowers
947   Posted 12/01/2012 at 13:28:41

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For those still supporting Moyes are you willing to keep him and remain a negative,mediocre mid-table team?
Do you really think he will be the Messiah once we get some big investment?
Forget the excuses given by some regarding injuries. Every club has their share. We are in desperate need of change and it has to be now with Moyes.
Ernie Baywood
950   Posted 12/01/2012 at 14:01:33

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I don't support Moyes but not for the resons you list, Tom. I'd be happy with mid-table and grinding out points if it was all part of a plan... but what's the plan?

A few years back he was doing it but was also gradually reducing the average age of our side. Never mind that that team didn't manage to achieve what it could have, at least it was a plan.

Right now it feels like Moyes is waiting for something to happen. Just troting out shite sides until something better comes along. Whether that's because he thinks we'll get taken over or because he knows he's walking as soon as he can I don't know.

We learn nothing from these selections and we gain nothing. Wouldn't it be better to blood a few youngsters in these times?
Roman Sidey
952   Posted 12/01/2012 at 13:50:59

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To be fair though guys, Moyes did not say he was satisfied with the result. I hate the man and want rid, but if we are going to campaign against him, we really need to sort this sort of thing out.

I think he should have his brain examined if he was "satisfied with the performance" as it wasn't any better than what we've seen, but I wouldn't accept that he's happy to lose.

Tim Spring, if I were a manager in need of a job, it's quite an easy bargain. "Your last manager was on 65k/week. I'll accept a regular manager's wage of say, 30k/week, as long as we can put the other 35k toward wages of players." There's a start. Moyes is the highest paid squad employee, yet he cries that he can't afford wages for loanees. Fuck him.

Dick Fearon, could not have put it better myself mate.

Dave Wilson
960   Posted 12/01/2012 at 14:10:05

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Andrew #937

Scholes, Giggs Lampard, Henry, are just the latest in a very very long list of players who have gone way past their best and are no longer first choice players, but they have, will and are usefull to their clubs.

The very best coaches in the world keep these type of players around their teams, although most of them wouldnt dream of starting them every week . Luckily - for them - none of them work for a chairman who cannot provide them with alternatives.

What would you have Moyes do ? Terminate their contracts and pay them anyway ?

Your constant defence of Kenwright is admirable. but you wont convince me. When Moyes leaves Everton somebody will pay him millions to stay in the game. When Kenwright leaves, the only way he stays in the game is if he is the one paying the millions.

It appears the puppet is in far greater demand than the puppet master.

I think that fact alone should silence all the Kenwright supporters . .unfortunately, I know it wont, next time Moyes says anything it will be twisted and distorted all over again, the usual suspects will be all over it and we`ll have our intelligence insulted again by claims of Kenwright being JUST the figure head
Simon Harris
962   Posted 12/01/2012 at 14:04:37

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Tom, I share your frustrations and right now Moyes is looking like the continuing financial restraints are taking its toil on him and his team.

Should we replace him? Maybe, but we would still be in the same financial mess without the spending power to replace some of the deadwood (Bily - and yes I know Moyes signed him, I'm sure he regrets that everyday) and the 30+ players.

I've never referred or thought of Moyes as the 'messiah' but if he had a reasonable transfer kitty (say from the 10m from Arteta and the 1.5 from Yak) to go and purchase another Arteta 2m, Pienaar 2.5 and a defoe for circa 6m would I expect our fortunes to change under Moyes? Yes, and I would argue the style of football would improve with that type of player also.

Unfortunately, it's all hypothetical as we don't, and don't look like, having anything in the near future. And whoever is in charge has to forage around the lower leagues and Europe for cheap punts or loans.

Replacing Moyes may provide a sticking plaster, short term solution, but while Kenwright and the current board are left to oversee the running and selling of the club, we are likely to be in this mess for years to come.

2.5 years no spend! It's ridiculous, outrageous and frankly embarrassing for the 4th most successful club in English football. We should keep the pressure on Kenwright to stay true to his word and release some, if not all of the Arteta fee and his promise to sell the club.
Tim Spring
964   Posted 12/01/2012 at 14:44:30

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Roman you've hit the nail on the head there with "a manager in need of a job." Are we going to find someone who is either a) employed b) tactically astute enough to do something better for the club and c) we can afford. Or would we find a manager in need of a job like (shudder) Dave Jones?
Jay Harris
969   Posted 12/01/2012 at 14:49:03

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Has anybody stopped to consider the impact Billy liars policy is having on the players and the manager.

They do not know who is going to be sold next.

Moyes is desparately hanging onto players he knows he should replace because he knows if they are sold he will not be able to get a replacement in.

Moyes and the squad are all dead men walking and it shows.

It is a credit to the man that he carries on.

Do you know any other decent manager who would come in under such circumstances.

Billy liar needs to go first and then when we have a plan for the club should we consider a change of manager.

The Spurs game last night is not a fair barometer to judge anybody.

Did any supporter truly expect a better performance than the one we put on.
Mick Davies
975   Posted 12/01/2012 at 14:34:53

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Tony J Williams, what are you on about moaning Moyes's lack of replacements for Saha? We had TWO replacements: Yakubu and Beckford, both have better scoring records at Everton and both thrown away by a dictator who won't suffer criticism.

As for 'honourable man', Moyes is sitting there collecting an obscene amount of money from OUR skint club without earning it... RBS, Northern Rock?

Tim Spring, you say no manager would come here because of all our financial problems, but that would be the sort of man we need: a fighter who is prepared to kick the club up the arse and run things his way, not just look for a comfortable ride.

Liverpool were rock bottom when Shankly arrived; Clough turned the fortunes of TWO down-and-out provincial clubs... and even Paul Jewell took Bradford to the dizzy gold-laden heights of the PL ? and miraculously kept them there for another season.

Jesus, this is Everton we're talking about here, not Barnet. We have one of the biggest fan-bases in the country and a squad full of internationals, a history of success, and a state-of-the-art training centre that's the envy of almost every other club. I'm not asking for a man to come in and win us the CL, just get the players working hard, playing with pride again... playing decent football and hopefully winning us a domestic trophy ? within his first 10 years ? like the League cup.

As a proud Evertonian with over 40 years a blue, surely that's not too much to ask???
Jimmy Sørheim
983   Posted 12/01/2012 at 15:16:54

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We need a wage structure. Only the ones who perform will get their full wage, if they are out injured or if the club does not reach Champions League, then a basic wage of only £20k should be paid.

We need to get rid of the greedy ones like Saha and Neville who do nothing for their money. I mean it. The time is now, the sooner the better.

But that will not happen as long as Kenwright is under the pressure of Moyes. You see, it was Moyes who demanded more money for wages if you remember, he also wanted all the power for himself.
Ciaràn McGlone
986   Posted 12/01/2012 at 15:24:56

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"Scholes, Giggs, Lampard, Henry"

"Neville, Cahill"


A shinny new penny for the first whippersnapper who can spot the difference between these two sets of players...
Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
995   Posted 12/01/2012 at 15:45:08

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Jimmy lad (#983) ? your posts seem to get wackier by the day. What's going on? I'm concerned for your credibility... honest.
Brian Waring
996   Posted 12/01/2012 at 15:42:58

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Ciaran, I want more than a shiny new penny!
Dave Lynch
000   Posted 12/01/2012 at 15:55:10

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Ciaran.
The top ones are still decent for their age.
The other two are SHIT !
Andrew Laird
002   Posted 12/01/2012 at 15:44:58

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Yes well done Dave, you have me bang to rights, especially the bit about my constant defence of Kenwright... If you would like to point out which parts of my posts say this then I will personally send you a T shirt with "Moyes is not to blame, everyone else is because I said so".

Moyes is 100% accountable for the ins and outs of playing staff, he has said this on numerous occassions.

As Ciaran points out, you have cherry picked some of the best players of the last 10 years who would definitely add a wealth of knowledge to the game of youngsters.and who were all WINNERS, why not add Paolo Maldini, Franco Baresi, Nesta, Cannavaro...... or how about Dean Windass?
Andrew Laird
006   Posted 12/01/2012 at 15:59:11

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Ciaran, the top 4 are / were footballers... the other 2 are cricketers.
Barry Rathbone
026   Posted 12/01/2012 at 16:44:46

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Moyes and Kenwright declarations are "Westminster Bubble" in nature, expressed with a complacency that shows them oblivious to what's going on.

Mind you the persistent excuse making for Moyes and high horse umbrage over shouted questions to Kenwright.......why not?
Mark Stone
038   Posted 12/01/2012 at 17:14:22

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Dave Wilson - He can be a right tit, that Stewart. I wouldn't go the match with him again!

Jimmy #983 think will you, mate!
Steven Flynn
062   Posted 12/01/2012 at 17:46:20

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Jay Harris 'it's a credit to the man he carries on'. How about the £65k a week as a reason for carrying on? He would have walked ages ago if another club was daft enough to pay him similar wages.
Brian Denton
070   Posted 12/01/2012 at 12:47:11

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Robbie, don't worry - your opinion isn't undermined in the least by my clever-dick pedantry !
Ian Edwards
081   Posted 12/01/2012 at 19:27:52

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Dave Wilson

"The puppet is in demand"??

Who wants Moyes? No one has come in for him in the ten years he has been at Everton.

No one wants Moyes.
Dave Wilson
087   Posted 12/01/2012 at 19:13:00

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Maybe that shiny new penny should be reserved for the first person who can come up with some sort of measuring guage that could somehow explain to Ciaran, Brian,Dave Lynch and Andrew - all spookily enough very anti Moyes - Just how incredibly far away they where from grasping the point.

I wouldnt even attempt to compare Cahills or Nevilles ability to the other players - but then you know that already, dont you ?

The point is they are vastly experienced proffesionals and as such they belong in the group I placed them. They could prove invaluable to the development of other players at the club,
I invite you all to go back to post 888 . .worra ya know ??? . . .I actually say that say that ! ..

Mind you,Guys you offer a perfect example of what I`ve been speaking about in this thread, How people can hear /read Moyes say one thing but somehow managed to convince themselves that he said something entirely different.



Ciarán McGlone
119   Posted 12/01/2012 at 20:35:04

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You know it's awful hard to grasp a point which has no merit, Dave...

Maybe that's why we're far away from grasping it... it doesn't bloody well exist.

It's funny, Dave... you actually understand that there's problems with Kenwright, but as soon as someone suggests (with verifiable evidence, might I add) that there may be a second problem with Moyes, you get a nose bleed?

Two problems!!! Independent of each other!!! good god man, call the church elders!

Why is it so hard for you to accept the possibility that two distinct problems exist?

By the way, Dave... on another thread, you asked someone to provide a contradiction that Moyes has produced. Here's one... by your own admission, Kenwright is a shit chairman... why then does Moyes insist on singing his praises?

Abandon ship Dave, or you're going down with it.
Andy Peers
167   Posted 12/01/2012 at 21:47:00

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"Moyes Is the epitome of a loser" ... Prove me wrong

As Everton Manager

P450
W187
D114
L149

Win ratio 41.56%
Lose ratio 33%

Silverware won 0 = Loser
Dave Wilson
178   Posted 12/01/2012 at 21:35:22

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Ciaran

Its common Knowledge that we are going to have to rely on youngsters coming through and if you dont see the benefit in keeping on two players who are reknowned throughout the game for their professionalism then I cant help you.

Theres a point alright, but you`re not even getting warm.

I actually asked for an example of where Moyes lies or contradicts himself.

Moyes likes Kenwright, why wouldnt he ? Kenwright treats him like a god.

Having a different opinion of the chairman to me does not make Moyes a liar,
Nick Waters
190   Posted 12/01/2012 at 22:14:14

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Dave - is there not a contradiction here? (Taken from contiguous paragraphs at the start of the thread, 'Everton left in the shade')

Moyes insisted that the decision to sell Arteta was taken for "football reasons"

"I think everybody knows that the bank wanted the money. I think you all knew that," said Moyes.

How is giving the Arteta money to the bank a football decision? Don't say it was for Arteta's footballing reasons - the clear and only implication is that it was for 'football' reasons in Everton's interest.
James Stewart
192   Posted 12/01/2012 at 22:39:07

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Anyone in doubt about Kenwright just watch things like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhwYxFBn6uA

The man is a bloody buffoon of the highest order. Still living in his fantasy land where a billionaire will come in and let him play with his money.

Moyes's is just as incompetent. Stale tactics and a squad with zero creativity or goal throat. Watching Moyes's everton is like watching groundhog day for a decade only less entertaining. The Sooner these two cretins are out of the door the better. Can anyone honestly say hand on heart they want another decade of Moyes?
Steve Pugh
205   Posted 12/01/2012 at 22:34:31

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Nick, When Lescott left the attempts to keep him at the club upset the team and resulted in worse than normal football. It also resulted in lots of Moyes bashing on here. Arteta wanted to leave, keeping him might have caused the same disruption as Lescott, hence he allowed him to leave for footballing reasons. If Arteta hadn't wanted to go Everton would not have sold him because they knew the money would go to the bank.
Roman Sidey
206   Posted 12/01/2012 at 22:47:43

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Dave, I agree that it's common knowledge that the youth are going to be what keeps us going. My only gripe with this is, why the fuck doesn't Moyes know this?

When he signed on for the job 10 years ago he said that he was going to drop the average age of the squad. Well, 10 years later, that hasn't happened.

He said when he came in that it was the peoples' club. 10 years later, and it's further from being he peoples' club than any other club I've ever been involved with.

He said he had the best squad he'd ever had 18 months ago, and then went on to get the lowest points total for Everton in five years.
Roman Sidey
209   Posted 12/01/2012 at 23:16:37

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Steve Pugh, the Lescott and Arteta situations are entirely different.

- Manchester City were throwing quite large amounts at a player that, at the time, was worth a bit less than the offers. Arteta was worth a lot more than £10m

- Lescott was being chased by City all summer, and handed a transfer request in a long time before Moyes finally gave in. Arteta handed his in with hours left in the window. I give Mikel enough credit as a bloke that if the transfer hadn't come off, he wouldn't have carried on like Joleon did against Arsenal.
Mick Davies
234   Posted 13/01/2012 at 01:00:33

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Agree with Roman Sidey, EVERY FAN knew that Lescott would go, he failed to answer a question on TV in May about his future and from then on, only Moyes thought he could deflect all the City money being offered. A decent manager would have sold him in June and brought a few good players in and got them adjusted (you know, hoofing and trying not to score) to his system.
As for Arteta, the first inkling of him going was on the day of the deal. He wasn't making any noises and his respect for our dying club should be commended, even though he left. He gave us 6 good years and lots of good memories. If we had a side playing decent and positive football, I doubt he'd have left. So Steve Pugh, don't try to defend Moyes by slagging Arteta, you are just showing how weak your argument is in footballing terms
Andy Callan
392   Posted 13/01/2012 at 13:11:30

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We never even had a shot the other night. AGAIN.

It was a successful evening as we never got completely fuckin' twatted 6-0.

If Moyes goes and someone comes in playing more entertaining football, there is the possibility that we'll get fuckin' relegated. I do admit that we could get better and improve slightly; BUT I don't think its worth takin' that chance personally.

Status quo is good enough for Everton FC at the moment. We've nee cash so it doesn't fuckin' matter who is in charge as they'll just be in the same fuckin' boat as Moyes, won't they......?!?!?!
David Holroyd
507   Posted 13/01/2012 at 17:02:33

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The reporter asked Moyes what did he think Moyes replied we done alright... is he fucking joking?!?! Spurs were better in every department, but one of the things I noticed was their pace compaired to ours. The game has moved on; we play the game as if we have treacle on our boots.
Garry Martin
538   Posted 13/01/2012 at 18:28:27

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Come on people get real, when 65K is going into your bank account every week who gives a flying fuck..........I'll tell you anything you want hear for that sort of dosh. He's made for life !!!
Peter Barry
695   Posted 14/01/2012 at 02:26:55

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This just confirms what I have been saying for a long time With Moyes We're Bust. He is SATISFIED with defeats and with the players performances in those defeats. So it is obvious what his mindset is and the motivation he FAILS to give to his players. MOYES MUST GO before Evertons does.
James Flynn
698   Posted 14/01/2012 at 02:13:01

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Every good ownership vs EFC ownership. A shiny new penny to anyone explains the difference.
James Flynn
700   Posted 14/01/2012 at 03:06:43

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I forgot my tag until new ownership..

KENWRIGHT OUT!
Callum Wilson
708   Posted 14/01/2012 at 03:57:03

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James Flynn, it's Kenwright with a W, stop writing Kenright however I do agree with the sentiment.
Tony J Williams
052   Posted 15/01/2012 at 09:53:13

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No Peter, he said he was satisfied with the performance, not the defeat.

Usual story, try and manipulate Moyes's words to suit your mindset.
Peter Barry
186   Posted 16/01/2012 at 02:51:29

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Tony J Williams, it was the PERFORMANCE of the players that made the defeat possible; please don't try and manipulate words to suit YOUR mindset.

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