I don't know about top 4 Sean. Ultimately there are 4 better teams than us, even if we get a high quality winger and play maker like you suggest. Although, I do think we can push for Europa, which would be excellent given our resources. I look at our squad, and with Pienaar (hopefully), there aren't too many better than it, so I think what we need most is a Moyes to get his finger out before Christmas!

Although Naismith, Pienaar and Cordoza (apparently?!) wouldn't hurt either.

Every Blue knows we need a right-sided player and another striker but I don't think it will happen so I would be happy with Pienaar, Naismith and a couple off other freebies. We need to freshen up the squad.

Have to disagree withe you there, Adam. There are only 2 very good teams in the Prem maybe 3 if you include Chelsea, who have bought big and won Europe etc. The rest of the teams are fragile and quite frankly not much better, even on paper, than us. I don't like the idea of dismissing, out of hand, our chances. Otherwise, whats the fucking point. At the same time I wouldn't expect us to finish in top 4 but I would expect us to make the Europa. Anything less IS a disappointment.

What we news is that player we had about 2002/2004 you know him good on the ball skilful, works hard scores spectacular goals.....Rooney thats him.

If we had him the last few years we would of finished 4th on at least one occasion.

Ian. We did finish 4th in 2005.

Matt I know that but remember 2009 when we had a great finish to the season, only thing lacking was a Rooney in the final third imagine Rooney and Jelavic together.

What's a right winger..........?

Top 4 is silly talk unless we signed 3/4 quality players without any leaving which we all know wont happen. Say we brought in Naismith, Moutinho, Donovan & Pienaar. Then you could say we had a shout for top 4.

Reality will be more likes Baines out, Naismith and Pranjic in.

Ian #009, it's fantasy football. Most of us knew he was off that summer. The club was skint, Kenwright did his usual feeding the masses a banquet of bullshit, and they lapped it up. Offered him the biggest contract in the history of the club? Wouldn't sell him for £50m (to be fair, he didn't)? The writing was on the wall as soon as he changed his agent.

Now, according to "those ITK", Rooney is planning on running down this contract at Man U and returning to Everton on a free when he's 30. So you may get your wish and see him play alongside Jelavic, but as long as Kim Jong Bill is in charge, I'd expect Jelavic to be sold next summer if he has a prolific season. As much as the new TV money may mean an extra £20m revenue, we all know that with the chronic running of the off-field business, coupled with throwing more money at players no-one is after (because if they were they could easily outbid us) we'll still be losing money, and he'll still be waiting for someone to offer £150m for the club.

Sean, I agree with your basic premise that we are not for off being a decent side. However, a right winger with pace to burn isn't likely to be turning up at Goodison Park any time soon.

I think that we will start minus Pienaar but with an unconsidered free or loan signing. Frankly, that will do. If we get by without a major sale it will be a triumph; and that sadly sums it up.

See Connor, I'd agree with you there up to a point.

United, City and Celsea; All better in more or less every position.

Spurs, Arsenal; I think we can compete with, however Spurs have Van der Vart, and Arsenal have RVP. Both match winners. I look at this Everton side and I don't see a player who can win a game on his own with a touch of genius. Jelavic is a great finisher, but he couldn't do what RVP does. In my lifetime the closest we've come to one of these IMO were Rooney (when used) and Arteta in 08. If we had one of these type players then I'd agree that we're just as good, if not better than Spurs and Arsenal, but unfortunately we don't.

Liverpool, Newcastle; We are better than Newcastle, of that I have no doubt. Plus they'll drop like a stone with the Europa League midweek. Now the Shite I just can't make my mind up on. They just have that winning mentality (against the big clubs and in the big games at least) that we seem to lack. I'd have put everything I have on us beating them at Wembley this year. More fool me eh?! Deep down I think we have a better overall team. But they just seem to pip us when it matters don't they? Would I fancy us to finish above them again next season. Tough one that.

I do think that we can make up for our lack of individual talent compared to the likes of Arsenal and Spurs though with a good start. If we start well and we're not playing catch up from New Year onwards, who knows?

Apologies for the extra 'n' in Conor by the way mate. I get so frustrated when people spell Cunliffe without the 'e', should have double checked the spelling instead of just assuming! My bad fella.

That's no problem about the extra O mate people do it all the time but I appreciate the polite gesture.
I actually think that you are dead right about that one special player that can change a match. I think what defines these players, like Van Persie and that Uruguay'n forward that plays for them is that they can both score AND create goals.
In all honesty when I read back on my comment earlier it looks more like drunk optimism than rational thought but I put that down to that we can pretty much beat anybody on our day. Moyes has shortcomings that we are all well aware of but he has one of the best eyes for a player in the game. Either that or he can get the best out of players in the same way Ferguson does. Players become better players at Everton than at other clubs in the same way they do at Utd. I don't know any other Clubs that have this quality. Spurs and Pienaar is a good example.
For arguments sake if we say' kept our current players and bought Donovan(yawn), Pienaar and another striker, like Newcastle did with Ba on a free then I think we would make Champions league.

By the way, if we get Prajinic in for free and get £18m for Baines to fund the above mentioned, with maybe a young,expensive prodigy it would represent excellent and I mean excellent business.

We do this every summer/pre-season - name specific players for roles in the team when what we really need are high quality players who do the role well. Not just those who we can name.

Realistically, we'd all go mad and claiming he Moyes had lost it if he toured the club were going to buy TWO thirty year olds for the team but now we're suggesting them ourselves!!

I rate both Pienaar and Donovan but wonder whether we'd be throwing away what little money we have on players who won't get any better and certainly won't go up on value in a resale.

If they came on, I'd be happy and back them. What we really need are a mid 20's winger and a better right back. That'd see us improve immensely.

Conor #37 .. I agree 100% ... I like that thinking more than using it to by 3 adequate replacements.. one of which becomes a regular...We wasted the Lescott money... yes it got us Heitinga.. but cocked up 10mil on bily.. thats massive.

I think the squad is good enough to not have to buy 3.. get one exciting real prospect... (oh plus Donovan).. shit now I'm confused... we need width... so does that undermine the theory?

One thing to be learned from the Spanish revolution of the near past is footballers are needed throughout.

Having one or two players who can control, turn and pass a ball is easily dealt with.

We need a change of philosophy not just a winger, neither of which are on the agenda.

I think every Evertonian can see we need creativity and hopefully Moyes now sees it. The first half of last season was the most dire football I've seen in my lifetime watching Everton but, as soon as we brought a few in, we were suddenly one of the most attractive sides in the league.

We have this every pre - season 'We have a good squad' 'We are better than x,y,z' 'We can compete with Asrenal, Spurs, the shite etc' The only one missing is 'We could win the league'! The thing is,we all know what then happens when the season starts.

It's all a case of ''if only we had''. There is more to a successful team than buying individual players who possess speed and flair. Many of that kind of player has floundered in the wrong set-up. Teams have to have a good coach, a good plan and genuine hardworking players who can control the ball quickly and pass quickly ala Spain. Spain as everyone was aware could afford to play without any recognised strikers and yet they can all score simply because they create so many scoring opportunities from the passing skills they all have.
The players you need have to be quick minded so they can anticpate the tackles and play the one,twos to get out of trouble.
Sometimes it is only a split second difference but Spain have it off to a fine art.
Everton,and many other clubs do not have that kind of expertise.

I'm a huge optimist but sadly I think we are some way off top 4. City, utd and Chelsea I think people will agree are out of sight.

Arsenal and Spurs we could maybe compete with over the course of weeks and months but not a whole season. They debateably have better starting lineups and undoubtedly have better squads. If RVP gets injured they have Podolski, Giroud and Gervinho to bring on. If Modric gets injured they have the likes of Van der vaart, and Pienaar (!) to bring on. If Jelavic gets injured we have...anichebe (or possibly Naismith now)

Purchasing power is, like it or not, a big deal. Arsenal have already splashed around 20m with other moves lined up and papers estimate AVB will have anything between 20m-50m to spend with realistic targets such as Moutinho.

Newcsatle have a decent team but not much more money than us and Liverpool have a semi-decent team and lots more money to spend than us.

I'm excited by this season and our team but even with my blue glasses on when I look around at the competition (and their transfer spending/targets) I feel that top 4 is surely a pipe dream. If Moyes could have 20m or more to spend (like our rivals) then I really think we could compete but while we are dwarfed in spending off the pitch I think we will struggle to keep up over the course of an entire season on the pitch

I think Moyes probably wants the same thing we want: a shit load of money to spend on top notch players.

Back in the real world his priorities probably are:
Pienaar
Forward
Right mid
Replacements for any leavers i.e. Baines goes, get a left back

It may be that we only see either a forward or a right mid rather than both.

I can see Everton playing with one of the youger centre mid lads playing out on the right more often. I don't like it but at least they would be getting a game.

There is no reason we couldn't modify the Spain way and play a midfield 3 of Gibson, Fellaini and one from Osman, Barkley or Rodwell and front 3 of Naismith, Jelavic and Rodellega if we could get him. 5 of those players can be mobile and quality passers of the ball whilst Jelavic's movement would cause problems for defenders.

I'm not going to start saying that this could get us into the top 4, but it I think it would at least get us a step closer.

Well, we have Naismith now who may be the new man to play alongside or just behind Jelavic. Hopefully his knee problem won't be constantly flairing up and his form is consistant. If he slots in then I think Timmie amy be let go.

I agree with 'most of all we need a right winger with pace to burn', in fact it is pretty much all I go on about on Toffeeweb

The two best options are Hoillett but apparetly his wage demands are over the top, and Narsingh of Heerenveen.

He went with the dutch squad to the Euros but was behind Robben in the pecking order. I've only seen highlights of him, but he has pace to burn and got the most assists in the league last year (putting most of them on a plate for Dost by the looks of things). He is only 22 and available for abou £4 mil (Ajax and PSV are currently battling for his signature). He is what we need, at the right age, at the right pace. Reports also say Moyes has been to see him on more than one occasion. I've got my fingers crossed.