Baines believes Barkley has a big future

, 18 April, 78comments  |  Jump to most recent
'He has a hell of a lot of ability'
Leighton Baines says that he believes Ross Barkley will a "top player" for Everton after the promising young midfielder grew his reputation further with an impressive start for the Blues at Arsenal on Tuesday.

The 19 year-old has had to wait for his chance again under David Moyes but, after a somewhat disappointing showing at Tottenheam earlier this month, he showed poise, awareness and an eye for goal in the goalless draw at the Emirates.

That performance strengthened his case for greater first-team involvement in the run-in and had teammate Baines predicting big things for the Academy graduate.

"He has an abundance of talent but the manager is trying to pick the moments when to play him," the England international is quoted by Sporting Life.

"Nothing fazes him. He is such a good player and does not get fazed by any occasion.

"That is why he has started a couple of big games away from home and that underlines that he is starting to get the trust.

"He has been around the first team for a long time. He has a hell of a lot of ability and is young. He will be a top player for the club."

Barkley replaced the injured Leon Osman in the team on Tuesday and he could get to start against Sunderland at the Stadium of Light on Saturday if the veteran midfielder remains sidelined.

It's a game that Baines knows Everton have to win of they are to keep the clubs immediately above them within touching distance in the race for Europe.

"It looks like [Paolo di Canio] has given [Sunderland] a lift — they got a great result on the weekend," said Baines.

"It will be a tough game. They are not out of trouble. I have been down there myself you want to be safe with games to go, ease yourself of the pressure.

"They will match us for work-rate. We have to keep winning as well."

 

Reader Comments (78)

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Karl Masters
1 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:10:24
I dare say this will be the cue for a load of moaning about Moyes not playing him sooner.

However, I think Moyes is shrewdly bringing him on and at 19 he is now stating to show a bit more maturity and hence getting the trust of the Manager and his team mates as Baines says.

Karl Masters
3 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:13:25
Bloody I phones!!
Peter Warren
4 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:19:33
Looks fantastic... if perhaps a lack of pace. His decision making particularly defensively and giving ball away needs to improve but he's only 19 and missed loads of football. Moyes's development with him seems spot on. What a prospect we have on our hands
Mark Frere
5 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:15:02
Its amazing how much better Barkley looks playing in his proper position behind the striker. I hope Moyes sticks with barkley for the remaining 5 fixtures. Osman might be injured, but he has looked pretty jaded in recent weeks and I thought Fellaini looked excellent in CM with Gibson against Arsenal. It would also be interesting to see if Jelavic would improve with Barkley playing behind him
Ian Bennett
6 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:30:58
Alan Stubbs made some great points on Barkley on radio city, at the number of injuries he's overcome in his short time would have tested any pro, how he rated him, and where he saw him playing,
Ross Edwards
7 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:36:11
We have to meet his needs for consistent first team football or else he could decide to go somewhere else.
But, to get him to the pace of PL footy, I think we should send him on loan to a smaller team next season, like Southampton or Cardiff to gain more experience of this level, and he'd get more first team football as a result.
James Flynn
8 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:24:52
The only adjustment he seems to need is to the pace and pressure of the Prem.

A few have commented on how he takes too much time or gives it away to easy. I don't disagree. No longer waltzing thru teenagers or lower-level players.

He'll make that adjustment. And was it just me? Every time he was on the ball tuesday, I felt something exciting might happen. Happened a couple times and when he adjusts to the pace, I feel it will be happening sometime every game.

Paul Andrews
9 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:39:00
Nah,Baines is wrong on this one.
He takes to long on the ball,he will never make a top player.
I know this because I have seen him start 2 games.
Richard Dodd
10 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:46:03
I thought we looked much more purposeful with Tuesday's personnel and formation. Regardless of Ossie's fitness, I hope Moyes will go 'same again' at Sunderland.
Ross Edwards
11 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:54:54
I just hope Fellaini doesn't play v Sunderland, we play better without him.
Tom Bowers
12 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:51:49
One swallow doesn't make a Summer but he looks like he has got the talent and with the right coaching etc. he can make a big impact. My concern is not to suddenly leave him out again for Saturday's game although there was a mention of an ankle swelling?

As mentioned, perhaps it's time to leave Ossie out as he certainly wasn't missed against the Gooners.
James Flynn
13 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:41:05
Ross - He might leave sometime. After all, we still have the owners dumped Wayne Rooney. But he's not Wayne and won't be going soon.

I think he should stay here and play. We'll see, but I think Moyes is going to feature him more.

Phil Brown
14 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:56:55
Ross # 754 Can't agree at all.

Fellani needs to play in his proper position alongside Gibson with either Osman or Barkley behind the striker. Fellani is the best in the premier league in that position. Amazing how playing players in their best position seems to work.

Ross needs to speed his play up a bit but this is down to two factors: He's been schooled by both Everton and England to take the ball from the defenders and make the play, which means playing at a slower pace; and it's been a bit too easy for him playing against his peer group, so he stroll through games - it's a bit quicker in the mens game which is why he has to play behind the striker until he gets more experience.

James Flynn
15 Posted 18/04/2013 at 21:41:05
Ross - He might leave sometime. After all, we still have the owners dumped Wayne Rooney. But he's not Wayne and won't be going soon.

I think he should stay here and play. We'll see, but I think Moyes is going to feature him more.

Phil Brown
16 Posted 18/04/2013 at 22:14:54
Osman, Baines and Pienaar are clapped out and need a rest. As did Anichebe against Arsenal, it's very demanding the lone striker role and I don't think that anyone should be expected to play there for more than 75 minutes.
Kev Johnson
17 Posted 18/04/2013 at 22:30:00
Maybe Baines is knackered because he had to play wing back for a few matches? I say this because when I used to play at Sunday League level I was fairly versatile. Anyway, one week a couple of people cried off and I offered to give it a go at wing back in a 3-5-2. Jesus Christ, never again! As a wide midfielder, I was used to making runs half the length of pitch, then having a bit of a breather, but as a wing back I was basically running the full length of the pitch. - and then back again. Absolute nightmare.

Not that I'm comparing myself to Baines. I was more two footed than him.

James Stewart
18 Posted 18/04/2013 at 22:48:31
Barkley has the potential to be a beast of a player. Pure strength and power. He should be groomed into a Dembele type. He needs game time now whether thats from the start or the bench. There is no point in bringing on the likes of Naigood and Sheitinga while Barkley twiddles his thumbs on the bench. Give the lad the chances he deserves.
Ciarán McGlone
19 Posted 18/04/2013 at 23:02:40
You couldn't make it up.. first post on this thread is astounding.

Moyes is to be commended because Barkley had a good game... he had three good games at the start of the season too.

Unbelievable.

Kev Johnson
20 Posted 18/04/2013 at 23:06:59
Dembele? Nah. You know who Barkely reminds me of? No, don't laugh - I just mean a bit, a little bit. He reminds me of - just a tiny bit, mind you - Zidane!

Hey, enough of the derisive snorting and guffawing and chortling!

He's big and powerful and almost lumbering, but he's... how can I put it? Well, he's dainty. That's the only word for it. Dainty. Like Zidane.

Paul Holmes
21 Posted 18/04/2013 at 23:15:24
Barkley is going to be a great player... Did we miss weak Osman against Arsenal? NO! Play Barkley every game and he will get better and better,

Wrapping him up in cotton wool is no good; Moyes did that with Rooney, he was sub for us yet started for England! Get him out there every week!

Bobby Thomas
22 Posted 18/04/2013 at 23:46:27
Mark (742)

Very good point about Jelavic, and the runs he makes, being fed by Barkley.

Barkley played a very nice through ball after a nice half turn the other night, something we just don't do.

Jelavic makes great, sly little runs off the backs of centre halves. But he doesnt get fed. Part of the problem is Fellaini, in the "10" role, doesnt really do combination play with his fellow striker.

Fellaini is a great option for, amongst other things, being a target. Getting up the pitch, making it stick, keeping the ball and spreading the play. We can play in the oppositions half then, play from there.

Fellaini has superb control, his first tough is generally immaculate. But, possibly due to being brought through as a holding player and generally seeing the play from deeper, he doesnt tend to do the defense splitting pass/threading type balls that Jelavic could feed on.

I thought Fellaini was quietly superb at the Emirates.

So yeah, Jelavic may prosper from a different kind of service, the kind provided by the type of player Barkley is.

However on a separate point regarding Jelavic, having watched him closely its my opinion that I don't think he can start more than 20-25 games a season as lone striker and keep his sharpness. I don't think he can handle the demands, which are enormous, of being lone striker for a full season. Physically, its too much for him.

To be fair though its too much for most. He was screaming "rest me" before being dropped. Although I think Moyes was playing him in the hope he would click, net and that would perk him up.

He would be a tremendous 2nd striker to have but unfortunately the kind of fella we need costs.

If we had Demba Ba, for example, a player we supposedly tried for once upon a time, we would be in the Champions League places, all day.

Kev Johnson
23 Posted 19/04/2013 at 00:25:32
Bobby - good post, but I have to disagree on one point. The reason Fellaini doesn't do defense splitting passes is simply because he doesn't have it in him. He's got a bunch of good qualities, but vision isn't something he possesses. It's a rare gift, which is why some of us were getting all excited as soon as we saw Barkely 18 months ago. The lad has got it - "it" being the ability to unlock a defense with a little shimmy and a pass, long or short. A touch of vision.
Iain Love
24 Posted 19/04/2013 at 00:06:35
Sorry but I've watched Ross in the reserves and in the 1st team, and the only way he'll become a great player is by going abroad. The Premier League is too fast for him. Being skillful with a great touch doesn't work in this league unless it's allied with workrate and a maturity that players like Wilshere et al display. Decent Championship players like Vic are not Premier League class.
Phil Sammon
25 Posted 19/04/2013 at 07:23:29
Some great comments Kev and Bobby – almost spat my Bloody Mary down my cravat reading Iain's offering. What a load of cock.

A throughball and a counter attack. The two things we do very badly at Everton. You are right about Barkley rectifying the former, he certainly possesses that quality. The latter has been enabled by Mirallas but repeatedly hindered by Osman, Pienaar and Fellaini's inability to play incisive passes for players to advance onto. Hopefully Mirallas' ability to run with a ball and Gibson's ability to pick the right pass will see more sweeping counters for us in the future.

Bobby – comparing Barkley to is Zidane is a big one – and premature by your own admission. However...I totally agree with you. Instead of 'dainty' I would say 'grace'. I would imagine I have seen more of Barkley live than most due to my hours of free time and fondness for ploughing my new car over the M62. I've also had a kickabout with Zidane when France trained in my home village at Euro 96 – so, as you can see, my credentials are impeccable.

Barkley may well dwell on the ball too long at times – he is used to being afforded that time. He is 19 and with experience he will overcome that. He is certainly not slow at covering ground. For his build he is has good acceleration and goes at a fair canter.

Another refreshing quality if Barkley's is his ability to hit a great shot with either foot. An advanced fivesome of Pienaar, Fellaini, Osman, Mirallas and Anichebe has its qualities but not one of them has a consistently good shot from outside the box – and certainly not with both feet.

Anyway, enough of lauding the lad. We all knew he could do it and we all knew he needed games in his favoured position. He's received that now and shown what he can do. How anyone can turn that into a 'Moyes knows best' tale is surely wrong in the head.

Well done Ross, keep at it lad.

Sam Hoare
26 Posted 19/04/2013 at 08:17:44
Ciaran @789. I think you mean last season right?

As for Barkley, whilst he did look extremely promising against Arsenal I will try to reserve the higher praises till he can play like that for a few games in a row. Good to see he has it in his locker but worth remembering he looked a little lost against Spurs. Hopefully he builds on his excellent tues night and delivers on his promise where a lot of talented youngsters have not.

Bobby Thomas
27 Posted 19/04/2013 at 07:58:24
Kev

Yeah, basically completely agree, I don't think he has the vision to play the 10 position in that fashion. He isn't a "head up" player moving towards goal. His best play off the striker is mainly back to goal and us subsequently utilising our attacking full backs & getting crosses in.

An over reliance on this has at times made us predictable, a bit one dimensional, functional and mechanical almost. But theres been a lack of options without the full strength side, when Mirallas and Coleman have been out for example. Teams can load up on our left side & try and neutralise Fellaini.

Fellaini plays the 10, try and go with this, slightly like a bizarre version of Mark Hughes, but nowhere near as good.

And for those that don't know or are under 30, thats a compliment by the way as he was an outstanding footballer & completely underrated in this country. European class footballer Mark Hughes and gets v little credit for how good he was.

Anyway, I digress. I thought we struggled with essentially being sussed around the turn of the year.


Moyes has known we needed extra, tried for the market & has shuffled his small pack nicely for me. Vic has improved, Emirates aside, Mirallas has been managed nicely back to full sharpness.

And as for Barkley......if you cant see a premeier league footballer there.....my advice is either watch more football and learn or shut up.

Barry Rathbone
28 Posted 19/04/2013 at 08:09:02
Previously I hadn't seen what the talk was about seemed another Rodwell to me but he has SKILL.

Just needs to learn to decide before he gets the ball and he'll only get that playing first team footy.

As for Moyes astutely bringing him on .... ho ho ho! ... isn't it the usual no option time with injuries and Neville jacking it?

Seamus was the same.

Bobby Thomas
29 Posted 19/04/2013 at 08:27:11
Oh and yeah the last para wasn't directed at yourself, Kev, but at any Barkley doubters in general.

Train was pulling into my stop... another day in Costa del Warrington.... it's all too much.

Gavin Ramejkis
30 Posted 19/04/2013 at 08:41:58
Sam I only hope he gets to play a few games in a row, goes against the general Moyes philosophy of not changing things about. Use Coleman at right back as an example, I will hold my hand up high to say having watched him in pre season I thought it was a huge risk as he made too many mistakes there but given a run at it and he has really improved. Hopefully, the same could be done with Barkley given a run of a few games where he will make mistakes but not then be sent to rot for a year in the stiffs or another league altogether.

Enjoy him while he is still here and before BK sees dollar signs again.

Chris Ashton
31 Posted 19/04/2013 at 08:47:58
Watching him against Arsenal the other night made me think of one thing, how amazing he will be in 2-3 years time!

I think the football brain is there, the pass to Mirallas in the first half was perfect. Anyone like Stevie Me, Lampard or any other the Chelsea boys do that and the media would be all over it. I think we need to just give him the game time now and let him develop. Personally I wanted him to get game time over the past 12 months, 15 mins here and there to get him used to playing in the first team but now he is getting a shot, I think we should get behind him.

He is a young lad, who strikes me as knowing what he wants to do before he receives the ball. I don't know about any other fan but I would much rather him give the ball away every game but develop as a top midfielder rather than play Neville, Naismith, Hitzlsperger who offer nothing extra to the team.

Richard Tarleton
32 Posted 19/04/2013 at 08:56:51
He had a very, very good game against QPR at the beginning of 2011-2012 season, I thought in that game he was Everton's best player. Moyes in his infinite wisdom has basically ignored him since then, sending him out on loans and playing him for the odd twenty minutes here and there. I expect Moyes will announce that he needs further time to develop and that he'll be a great player when he's thirty.
Dan Brierley
33 Posted 19/04/2013 at 08:43:26
I think that comparison is ridiculous to be honest. If a single through ball and shot in a game is Zidane level, I will call Osman Pele. I don't see what Barkley did in the game that I haven't seen Osman do a thousand times, including picking the wrong pass or losing the ball too easily. Having skill and flair means nothing unless you know how and when to use it. He has definitely improved since last season, but as someone pointed out, nowhere near Wiltshire level in terms of maturity and work ethic. I hope that he is starting regularly by the start next season, but he needs to a lot more before he earns that right.
Brian Harrison
34 Posted 19/04/2013 at 09:01:24
Again a lot of credit must go to David Moyes he knows when these youngsters are ready for first team football. Over the last few weeks we have had hundreds of posters saying I was wrong about Anichebe, Barkley and Coleman but the one man who has been right all along is David Moyes.
Phil Sammon
35 Posted 19/04/2013 at 10:13:04
Brian

You are surely joking.

People have been calling for Barkley to play more games for months on end. Moyes finally relents, he plays well and now you laud the gaffer.

Dan

Nobody is saying he is as good as Zidane, or even that he will be. We are merely drawing similarities in style - just as your pal, Jack Wilshere, has been doing with Leon Osman and Iniesta. The only difference being that Barkley is a 19-year-old with the world at his feet whereas Leon Osman's career has probably peaked by now.

Paul David
36 Posted 19/04/2013 at 10:24:40
Would Barkley have played if Osman was fit? I think we all know the answer is no, so I don't see how Moyes is doing whats best for the team or Barkley. Barkley played because Moyes's hand was forced not because he felt Barkley was ready.
Kev Johnson
37 Posted 19/04/2013 at 10:09:55
Dan - no way is Osman Pele. He's Iniesta, everyone knows that. Thanks for saying my Barkely/Zidane comparison was riduculous. I was going for preposterous, but ridiculous will do, at a pinch. I am fully aware it's far-fetched, as my post clearly shows, but I also think there's some truth in it. When Ross is awarded the 2019-20 World Player of the Year, I expect a formal apology from you. Oh yeah, and a couple of those Everton garden gnomes they sell in the club shop. Furthermore, the first round is on you. Cheers, big ears.

Note to Phil Sammon: it was me who made the "Barkely is Zidane" comment, not Bobby. I want all the credit. However, as you had a kickabout with "Zizou" in 96 I'll let you off. Yes, "graceful" is a good word for it. He looks as though he'd be clumsy, but he is oddly elegant.

He does need to learn concentration, for sure. Also, his decision making must improve - he has a cracking shot on him but has to learn when is the best time to unleash it - and he has to do something about his haircut, which is currently well bad. On the plus side, well, loads of things.

As for Moyes deserving credit for playing RB now, words fail me...

Gavin Ramejkis
38 Posted 19/04/2013 at 10:47:14
Brian, Moyes has persisted with Anichebe but his wisdom has also seen him playing out of form and crocked players for years so no kudos there. Coleman is getting a shot at right back for the Moyes Achilles heel special - injuries forced his hand
Phil Sammon
39 Posted 19/04/2013 at 10:49:57
Sorry Kev. I was bowled over by consecutive posters talking complete sense.

And the bad haircut is another astute observation.

I noticed many moons ago that on Football Manager Barkley is listed as eligible to play for Nigeria. Anyone know anything about that one?

Danny Jones
40 Posted 19/04/2013 at 10:47:29
My first choice midfield is still Gibson, Fellaini, Osman, Pienaar, Mirallas but Barkley is now next in line.

First off the bench and first in for injury or loss of form.

I'd like to see Fellaini and Osman swapping positions in the way that Pienaar and Mirallas often do. However, I think that when Barkley plays he should mainly play furthermost and central.

It's good to see that he's getting a game as there is no substitute for experience but I would keep playing him further up the field as it will give him confidence to be creative and mistakes generally carry less impact up there.

James Morgan
41 Posted 19/04/2013 at 10:56:45
The lad looks a class act for years to come. I would love to see us get an out and out right winger a la Valencia and have Mirallas in front of Barkley with Fellaini in the middle with Gibson, that would be a formidable force in my opinion.
Kev Johnson
42 Posted 19/04/2013 at 11:07:00
Yeah, checked it out and Barkely is indeed eligible to play for Nigeria! That's news to me, I must say. To my untrained eye he doesn't look even slightly Nigerian, but obviously he has at least one close family member from that part of Africa. Well I never!
Brian Harrison
43 Posted 19/04/2013 at 11:08:54
Phil Sammon

Yes your right a lot were calling for Barkley to have started months ago, but for me the lad wasnt ready as his performance earlier in the season against Chelsea was poor. But being the good manager Moyes is he knew it was time to pull him out and re-introduce him last week. The secret is to know when and when not to introduce kids. Also nursed Coleman into the team by playing him wide right as he knew at that point his defensive work wasn't good enough. Now having worked him on the training ground you now see he is a much better defender and can now start at fullback without any worries defensively.

Gavin Ramejkis

You're right to acknowledge his patience with Anichebe when many fans wanted him sold. As for out of form crocked players, well when you are asked to compete at the top end of the league with very little money you have to make do and mend.

When you say injuries forced his hand do you mean in playing Barkley because Osman was injured because he could have gone safety first against Spurs and Arsenal and used Heitinga or Hitz or Naismith or Neville. So that argument doesn't hold up.

Derek Thomas
44 Posted 19/04/2013 at 11:09:10
Paul David #842 Spot on, It was and is ever thus with Moyes.

Barkley has shown ( to me at least ) that he is on a par effectiveness-wise with Osman, yes I know they both are different and have different pluses and minuses.

But, Barkley is bigger, stronger and has more stamina ( not to be sneezed at in the EPL ) Osman is not going to get any better, given a run in the team to ' learn by doing ' Barkley might.

He may only have Ossies place on loan.

But this may be the ultimate make or break ' loan period ' for Barkley

Paul Foster
45 Posted 19/04/2013 at 11:29:04
Derek, rightly or wrongly Barkley has only played a couple of games. To say he has "shown he is on a par effectiveness-wise with Osman" is a tad premature, given that Osman has probably been our 3rd best player this season and scored EIGHT goals.

I think we all agree that Barkley has the potential to outshine Osman in the long-term. But in addition to the lovely touches and turns from Barkley, we've already seen some poor mistakes and naivety that suggests he has a bit to learn.

Personally, I'm glad we have both players. Both have rare intelligence that really makes a difference.

Gavin Ramejkis
46 Posted 19/04/2013 at 11:31:28
Brian a reasonable reply but doesn't account for games like the West Ham away game where Moyes had two strikers on the bench and didn't even start with one of them against the then bottom of the table side. As far as rotating players another fail for Moyes as he doesn't actually do it until they break no matter how badly they play. Every team in the EPL has to play the same number of games against the same opposition so where you stand in the league is a weak argument.

I'm not an Anichebe fan and happy to admit it, he hasn't won me over as the finished article but it would be ignorant to acknowledge his application this season.

Kev Johnson
47 Posted 19/04/2013 at 11:25:23
Brian - DM did well bringing Coleman on, that's true. But, crucially, Coleman is a defender and Moyes is a lot better at handling defenders than creative players. Alan Stubbs was saying recently that U21 defenders have to realise that sometimes the right thing to do is just to bang the ball into the stands and clear the danger. No pussyfooting. I agree: if you're a defender you need to have a safety first attitude.

Unfortunately, DM has too often extended that philosophy to ALL of the team. He is not sure what to do with attacking players and, rather than improve their creativity and goal threat, his default coaching method is to try and make them better defenders. That's why his adoration of Neville as a role model is so worrying. I mean, as a professional, yes. But as a player? No. Just no.

Brian Harrison
48 Posted 19/04/2013 at 11:35:24
Gavin the point I was making about league position having an impact on starting young players is if you are in the middle of the table and not fighting against relegation then it is easy to introduce young players. But if you are competing for a Champions league place then a manager has to think long and hard about introducing young players under that pressure.
Brian Harrison
49 Posted 19/04/2013 at 11:44:33
Kev Johnson

I will agree that being an ex defender his coaching of defenders is top class, but I cant agree that he tries to make attackers more defensive minded. I know some critisize Moyes for making forwards track back but that is all part of the modern game now. I see Ronaldo and Robben and Ribery tracking back so if its good enough for them then it certainly shouldnt be beyond our forwards.

I will agree that at times David Moyes has a defensive default position especially away when leading games and the clock running down. That his just his way, having said that most teams when leading away from home tend to limit the amount of players they throw forward to add to their advantage as most fans would want.

Denis Richardson
50 Posted 19/04/2013 at 11:43:20
I truly find it great comedy value when people use Anichebe as an example of how Moyes has been great at 'bringing youngster through'. The guy made is debut, what, 7 years ago? If that's the kind of timeframe people are happy with then, I guess that's their choice. And that's assuming he has actually made 'it'.

Just for the record, Anichebe is 25 years old - i.e. he is not a youngster and he is most definitely NOT the finished article and is at best a big striker with very average footballing skills. Granted he has put in some better performances this season but given the law of averages, it had to happen at some point! Even the Straq put in some decent performaces when he was with us, and he was cack footballing wise but at least always gave it 110% when he was here.

For me, the main position where we urgently need reinforcement is up front (assuminng Fellaini stays CM then we have potentially 4 players who can play in the middle at a decent standard, so not urgency to sign a holding CM, although another decent one would be nice given Gibbo/sick note).

I'll always support a player in the blue shirt, after all they don't pick themselves, we even have to get behind the likes of Naismith. However, let's stop pretending that big vic will ever be a good striker - if we had the cash and played more attacking football we'd immediately sign another striker.

Phil Sammon
51 Posted 19/04/2013 at 11:51:24
Brian Harrison

'Yes your right a lot were calling for Barkley to have started months ago, but for me the lad wasnt ready as his performance earlier in the season against Chelsea was poor.'

You've got to be kidding. Thrown on with 10 minutes to go, 2-1 down against the European Champions.

Where was the run out when we were 4-0 up at home to Cheltenham. I like Moyes and I appreciate him biding his time with youngsters...but there is a difference between nurturing a player and forcing him into exile. What the fuck did he bring him back from Wednesday for? If he wasn't gonna play here then why not leave him on loan? Same with Duffy. He's asked the manager to go on loan - we have Heitinga as cover - but no, stay in the reserves lad, that's how you nurture a player.

The last few weeks have been something of a milestone for me. Up until February/March, no way would Moyes have started Barkley against Arsenal. He seems to have finally gathered that we are a better team when we pose an offensive threat.

Give it another few months and you might see him finally realise that Naismith is shite and Oviedo is worthy of more than 10 minutes.

Dan Brierley
52 Posted 19/04/2013 at 12:23:03
Kev, I'll see your preposterous (thank god for predictive text for once) and raise you a 'downright ludicrous'. But suggesting Moyes takes credit for Coleman, but none for Barkley is 'fucking bollocks' I am afraid.

Of course, in my humble opinion. If he wins world player of the year in his career, I will take you for a month around Thailand! Saying Barkleys 'style' is that of Zidane, is like saying Neville's style is like that of Franco Baresi.

The reason Barkley is being lauded so much is that it suits those critical of the manager. There is no surprise with the names of the people using Barkley to again try and prove how inept our manager is. In pure footballing terms, I was more excited with Coleman's impact the time he came off the bench and ripped the spurs left side to pieces. I will wait a few more games before deciding he is the answer to our prayers.

Kev Johnson
53 Posted 19/04/2013 at 12:55:46
No thanks Dan. I don't want to go to Thailand. The two Everton garden gnomes will suffice. By the way, why is 'fucking bollocks' in inverted commas? Is it a quote? Let me guess... Shakespeare?

Hey, try this on for size: Moyes is good at some things (developing defenders) and not so good at other things (developing creative midfielders). Sounds pretty reasonable and well balanced to me! There is no secret society of people trying to prove the manager's ineptness, just knowledgeable EFC fans trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

Feel free to wait a few more games, or even years, before realising that some of us on this site were right all along about Barkely. He is class. If he doesn't play for England in a World Cup quarter final then I'll eat my Everton bowler hat. See? I'm a realist: I didn't say "World Cup Final"!

Dan Brierley
55 Posted 19/04/2013 at 13:01:00
A good example of how playing kids can be negative if not done correctly, is Sterling at Liverpool. He burst on the scene at the start of the season and was played to death, his performances deteriorated and fans started getting on his back. Rodgers has recently given the lad a week off to get away from football both physically and mentally. There are also rumours he will go out on loan.

As we don't have financial luxury to buy top players, I prefer our youngsters with promise are properly managed. Not just thrown into the first team as they show potential. We simply can't afford our youngsters not fulfilling their potential due to bad management and burn out.

Paul Andrews
56 Posted 19/04/2013 at 13:16:44
Dan, there are plenty of "good examples" of kids who started young in the first team and didn't burn out after 1/2 a season. So let's not go down that road.

If anyone disagrees with David in your, and others, eyes they have a hidden agenda. Have you ever considered it may be their honest opinion?

Ray Roche
57 Posted 19/04/2013 at 13:17:59
Dan, that's a very good point you've made about Sterling. When he first burst onto the scene all the world and his wife were going on about the "next best thing", stuff me, he even got an (undeserved) England call up, now his own fans are lining up to give him stick. Young players often flatter to deceive in looking a great young player when they are realistically only a great prospect. I hope, and think, that Barkley will eventually come good but he needs bringing on with a more gentle or even sparing approach.
Ross Edwards
58 Posted 19/04/2013 at 13:23:25
Funny how we're completely opposite to the RS. They spend a lot of money on crap players like Carroll, whereas we spend money on good players, Fellaini, Mirallas etc. Brenda wants to play Barca style football, Moyes doesn't. Brenda likes kids, Moyes doesn't. The RS cheat, we don't. I could go on.

But, I'm not campaigning for Barkley to play EVERY game, just a number of games. We don't want him burnt out like Sterling.

Paul David
59 Posted 19/04/2013 at 13:22:58
Dan

If Barkley plays well then keep giving him time on the pitch but if his form drops then put him back in the reserves for a bit. With all the hype surrounding the lad there will be times when we all expect a bit much from him but my guess is he won't start another game all season if Ossie is fit. Moyes is soo predictable but baffling at the same time, doesn't bring Barkley on against QPR when we have a 2 goal lead and looking comfortable but then starts him away to Arsenal.

Gavin Ramejkis
60 Posted 19/04/2013 at 13:32:11
Dan I thought Sterling had been dropped by David Brent to go and have a dozen more kids to a dozen more girls
Dan Brierley
61 Posted 19/04/2013 at 13:26:49
Paul, fair comment. Can you give an example of a talented youth player that broke through under Moyes and was failed due to Moyes coaching inadequacies? There was a lad called Rooney that turned out alright under Moyes stewardship. Or Jack Roswell who has a Premier League winners medal to his name. How do you think Osman has developed since our side showed more attacking intent? Who has made our side score more goals than ever before in the PL? Why is Mirallas looking better and better? All valid questions I think.
Kev Johnson
62 Posted 19/04/2013 at 13:33:29
It seems to be diehard Moyes loyalists who are least open to debate on this site. Anything good happens then it's to DM's credit. Anything bad happens then either it's not his fault or there is a complete denial that it is a bad thing at all. (Crisis? What crisis?)

No-one, repeat no-one, has said that RB should have been a regular for the past two seasons. What I and others are saying is that by now he should have been given more game time to (a) further his development and (b) help the team.

One thing I think DM might have got right was playing him away from home. There's less fan pressure then, especially as he's a local lad. Mind you, playing him away at Spurs and Arsenal at the business end of the season is not exactly easing him in, is it?

(Yep, there I go again, seeing both sides of the argument. Sue me, someone!)

Paul Andrews
63 Posted 19/04/2013 at 13:53:07
Dan, that wasnt the point I made,we were discussing young players burning out after 1/2 a season,or indeed lack of them.
Your at it again by the way,going into one because you percieved my post to be digging Moyes out.
Chris Leyland
64 Posted 19/04/2013 at 13:43:33
Kev, I assume you were being ironic when you say "it seems to be diehard Moyes loyalists who are least open to debate on this site"?

The counter-argument often purported by those in the so-called MOB is that anything bad that happens is Moyes fault but anything good that happens is despite him being the manager and never because he is? Example, Moyes buy a young lad from the Irish league for £60,000, brings him on an an impact sub a few times and then sends him out on loan to develop as a player. He brings him back plays him right midfield, works with him on his defensive duties and turns him into an attacking full back with improved defensive qualities. on the pages fo ToffeeWeb we are treated to a diatribe that Coleman should have been the first choice right back all along and that, him actually now being so, is proof that Moyes was wrong all along.

But hey, I suppose this was just " just knowledgeable EFC fans trying to sort out the wheat from the chaff" all along whilst having to cope with a glorified PE teacher ruining it for them?

Phil Sammon
65 Posted 19/04/2013 at 14:27:22
Where has anyone questioned his management of Coleman?
Kev Johnson
66 Posted 19/04/2013 at 14:55:16
No one has, Phil. He's tilting at windmills, jousting with imaginary foes. I'm going to leave him to it.
Jimmy Kelly
67 Posted 19/04/2013 at 16:05:42
Surely Chris makes a perfectly reasonable point?

If not on this thread then at least over the past 2 years many on this site have criticised Moyes over his handling of Coleman.

It's the same with Barkley, it's just an entrenched viewpoint held by some people and whatever happens in the long run will be used by them to 'prove' they were right.

Kev has taken great delight in telling us all (more than once) that he's always known 'Barkely' was destined for greatness. If he does develop into a great then he, and others like him, will say that it was obvious to them and would have happened sooner if only Moyes hadn't held him back.

If his career never gets better than a decent performance at Arsenal, culminating in a shot which went a yard wide, then they will say that Moyes ruined someone who was clearly brilliant. They will use the plethora of hugely talented creative midfielders who he has released at 19 only to see them go on to win the ballon d'or as further evidence of this.

Similarly, others will say that Barkley's emergence is proof that Moyes was correct in not picking him while any lack of progress will again be used to show Moyes' great judgement.

Thirdly, there will be others, like me, who will just let the lad's career take the path that it takes. Fingers crossed that it's a good one.

Dan Brierley
68 Posted 19/04/2013 at 17:02:23
Kev, have apologists just become the DML? Thailand is off the table. We are now down to a few cans of Tennants Super in the garden with the Gnomes.
Tom Bowers
70 Posted 19/04/2013 at 20:06:51
Judging by the diverse opinions here, the jury is still out on Barkley's future. He needs some more games as a starter before we can really judge him. I think he has great potential to improve but maybe not under Moyes.

As for going to the continent to do this, I think that is ridiculous. After all, Osman didn't have to go abroad and he is one-paced and weak in the tackle and yet he has made it... or should I say ''Moyesed'' it in the Prem!

Wayne Smyth
71 Posted 19/04/2013 at 20:57:59
Jimmy, sounds like you don't have an opinion on Barkley and Moyes handling of him, other than "what will be, will be".

Do you really not give a shit about how our manager develops our younger players, and just hope that everything will turn out ok? Or because Moyes decision to refuse to play him for 2 seasons looks so retarded, can you not think of anything to support him?

Given we're skint, have a small squad that Moyes himself says is tiring, and given that we have had to watch Neville, Naismith and Heitinga all played in midfield ahead of Barkley the last 2 years, I personally think it's well overdue that the lad has had some playing time.

He's not perfect, but you don't perform like that away at Arsenal at 19 unless you've got some serious talent. And he's not going to develop and learn from his mistakes sat on the bench.

Only time will tell whether he'll realise his potential, but given the groans that go up every time Naismith is subbed, I'm not the only one who thinks there are far less capable footballers at the club getting an unfair amount of playing time.

Gary Mortimer
72 Posted 19/04/2013 at 23:00:23
Totally agree with Wayne.

My opinion is that Moyes has given chance after chance to Naismith, but has only used Barkley as a last resort until the recent Spurs and Arsenal away matches. He has less than 200 minutes of playing time for us this season.

I hear that Moyes has said he will keep Ross' feet on the ground - I fully expect him to be dropped as soon as Ossie (or even Neville) is fully fit.

Nobody can say whether he will make it or not - Moyes refusal to play him (even in the cup matches v lesser opposition like Oldham) means we can't judge. His performance against Arsenal suggests to me that with a run of games, where he will be able to suss out the pace of the prem, he should be called on well before the likes of Neville, Heitinger and Naismith are given a chance in midfield again.

Brendan McLaughlin
73 Posted 19/04/2013 at 23:47:43
Gary #004
"Moyes refusal to play him...means we can't judge"
Too right...I mean most Premiership managers play all of their squad & then on the basis of the fan's reaction...pick the team!
Phil Sammon
74 Posted 20/04/2013 at 00:08:42
Brendan

Would you not say that Barkley has more to offer in midfield than Heitinga or Neville?

Everybody who has worked with Barkley has said that he is a very special talent. Stubbs, Irvine, Cahill, even Moyes himself. I've seen enough of him in the U21's and bits in the first team to know he is exceptionally talented. So, aged 19, do you not think it might be appropriate to give the lad an odd bit of game time throughout the season? You know, 4-0 up versus Cheltenham, or 2-0 up against QPR.....not 2-1 down with 10 minutes to go against the European Champions.

How can anyone possibly defend that policy? I like Moyes, but his handling of this situation has been absolutely baffling.

Gary Poole
75 Posted 20/04/2013 at 00:21:32
Phil - why has Moyes handling of the situation been baffling? Barkley played well for 60 minutes this week. Why do you think that is in spite of Moyes and not because of Moyes. Where is the evidence to suggest that, somehow, Moyes has mishandled the situation. I seem to recall that Barkley couldn't get a start a league down when on loan to Leeds.

You never though (and perish the thought) but, perhaps, Moyes is handling Barkley exactly right........

Phil Sammon
76 Posted 20/04/2013 at 00:31:55
Gary

'I seem to recall that Barkley couldn't get a start a league down when on loan to Leeds.'

You recall that do you? Do recall anything else about that loan? Do you recall the reaction of Leeds fans when he was left out and replaced by Michael Brown? I shouldn't imagine you will recall that, not do I think you watched a single Leeds match with Ross in the team.

He was without doubt their best player and, living in Leeds, I haven't heard anything but praise for his abilities.

Tom Bowers
77 Posted 20/04/2013 at 00:48:18
We should not be surprised by any comments said by Moyes and any of the team selections he makes. We all know he and maybe a couple of others love the bones of Osman despite his obvious frailties and so the likes of Barkley, Oviedo and Vellios will not become regular starters rather they will become disillusioned ala Rooney and move on.
Paul Andrews
78 Posted 20/04/2013 at 09:12:43
David this morning. "He is a long way from starting,we need to get him right over the next year or two"
Oh dear.
Richard Dodd
79 Posted 20/04/2013 at 09:46:28
Paul; I`ve just picked up that quote on the Express on Line site.So it looks like Felli behind Victor and Heitinga in midfield this afternoon.
Had hope to see Barkley again but I guess Davey knows best.
Paul Andrews
80 Posted 20/04/2013 at 09:52:45
Richard, I am a big fan of Barkley`s but don't have a problem with him not starting today.If Osman is fit I would leave Ross on the bench.Difficult for a young player just beginning to get starts to play two games in 4 days.The Prem is played at a pace young Ross will have to get used to (NOT the next year or two)it will be 5 yards quicker than anything he has played before.
Look at the top drawer players who come into the Prem and cant cope with the pace of the game for the first few months.
Sam Hoare
81 Posted 20/04/2013 at 10:06:09
Ross played well against Arsenal but quite poorly against Spurs from what i've seen. He will get more game time and if he plays well regularly then he will become a nailed on first teamer but at the moment he is still a 19 year kid who has alot of promise but is not yet consistent. I reckon he will get a few more appearances this season but don't expect him to start every game, he's not there...yet.

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