Analysis for Change

Continuing with Martinez is more likely to bring about relegation than a top four position, will drive out our more ambitious players to seek silverware elsewhere and make the signing of genuine new talent extremely difficult.

Get the banners ready and the plane warmed up. Martinez out!

That may prove problematic as most of the players are probably already on their way to meet up with their respective national teams and may explain but not excuse why most of them gave a half-hearted performance.

One of the first things we should do next season is stop these worthless trips to warmer climes. They don't help and certainly don't improve our game.

Whether you are in Education, Civil Service or Armed forces, those in your charge have to have the confidence to follow you. They will only do this if they have confidence in what you do and say. In short you have to inspire them. I might be wrong but there are times I have watched the Blues when some players don't seem to have the heart.

Martinez would not inspire me to follow him into the pub.

Colin totally agree. A sunny break needs to be earned, like Leicester.

We have become used to mediocrity at best, with few exceptions, for the last 30 years. Any Evertonian under 20 has never seen us win a trophy so it's no surprise that we tend to indulge in navel gazing . This sort of long-term grind affects everybody's view on life.

I believe his aim must be to build a club that can compete at the top-level and win trophies otherwise why bother? If this is his intention everything will be looked at through this lens.

So, is our commercial operation consistent with this vision? No! So hopefully we will see this change over time and a greater cash contribution will be forthcoming to support the team.

Is Martinez a manager who can be successful at that level? I believe he will think not if he looks at the evidence of his own eyes, and his performance over a period of time, including the last few games of his first season.I hope he disregards BK's outburst the other week.

Once you factor in the extra TV money in addition to what is likely to be a fair sum from his investment it is probably nailed on that Roberto will be on his way sooner rather than lately. He has not accumulated his wealth by allowing substandard people to out-stay their welcome. (This equally applies to OFM who is equally unsuited to working at the higher level.)

This is a once in a several generation opportunity and if this is his intention we are fishing in a different pool, shopping in Harrods and need to adjust our expectations accordingly.

So, possibly contentious now, is the squad good enough to challenge at the higher level? Subjectively I believe that the answer must be no.

We have Pienaar, Gibson, McGeady, Hibbert, all of whom are draining cash out of the club on a weekly basis.

Then there is Kone, Osman, Howard (all on the bench yesterday... Howard now on his way I see).

Clear this lot out and all of a sudden there is space on the bench.

So look at the first picks. Are Robles, Mori, McCarthy, Cleverley anything other than squad players at this higher level? Probably not, so put them on the bench.

Even more contentiously, are Stones and Barkley really up to it at that level? In Stones case, yes but he seems to want to leave. In Barkley's case, probably not, because I don't think he is capable of doing the full job of a midfielder at that level in that he can't tackle or head the ball. I understand he can turn a game in an instant on occasion but his decision-making and passing tends to be too ponderous, too often. It maybe he can kick on again next year, but he is a passenger far too often.

As I said this is purely subjective and I would not expect everyone to agree and that's fine but in the context of what Moshiri's ambition hopefully is we can spend a little less time analysing the past and the present and look forward with hope and optimism to the future.

This season is finished now, with the exception of a lovely diversion in the Cup to enjoy. I've made my mind up not to get angry and frustrated again this season for the sake of my health and sanity.

I think we can now look forward and hope now.

This money guy had absolutely no say in how Arsenal operated and it seems he will be learning the ropes from Kenwright. If so, don't expect anything to happen soon – particularly re the manager. I suspect the emphasis is on the stadium issue as team-building money will, as usual, come from sales.

ps: If Martinez is tasked to spend the Lukaku and Stones dough, let's just hope his signings have more instant impact than his last big-money buy!

I see there's already been a "mass demo" against the WHP project by a mixed bunch of (red?) neighbours, anarchists, and tree huggers. To avoid all this unnecessary noise, and aggro, why don't we just build on Stanley Park? That's already got council approval.

It seems that talks may have already taken place reminding one or two players that they are under contract and we will not let them go easily based on Lukaku's statement that he does not want to get into a fight over his contract.

I wonder if this had an effect on yesterday's inexcusable performance.

Yep... Martinez Out. I'd be happy with Hiddink myself.

Pity BK didn't apply due diligence to appointing his manager as a little research would have said his teams play nice football but give goals away for fun. Did he not question if he was such a brilliant manager how come (with less money) both Jewel and Bruce kept Wigan out of relegation?

I guess he completely exonerated RM for Wigan getting relegation yet must have thought he was the main reason they won the cup.

If we don't want RM in charge next season then we had better be more vocal in wanting him out. Because we are a loyal group and the club to their credit have reduced season tickets, we will of course renew.

I love Everton more than I hate RM so I will purchase my season ticket for the 47th year. But if RM is still in charge then I fear what the season will have in store.

Interesting that you somehow opine and then conclude as fact, based upon that opinion, that Stones is somehow the only one of the players you mentioned capable of being a starter. Odd, since he cannot even start for the team playing the "squad players" as you called them.

It is even more interesting that you dismiss Funes Mori, despite his having played in fewer games in the Premier League than your vaunted Stones. Oh yeah, and he is an Argentinian international and probable starter for that team. With all due respect to the Three Lions, it would seem to be a lot harder to make that team. Please enlighten me how Stones rates, and the rest don't, the special status you have bestowed upon him?

His position on being 'anti Stones' has been laid to bare many times, usually as some sort of counter to Tim Howard's season sabotaging form.

Hopefully he can go and witness his talent in Colarado and he can pay for the privelage like we all had to.

Anyway, Martinez out and Koeman in for me...I think he's out of contract shortly too.

Three years later, all the money is gone; he broke the bank with a philosophy that was totally flawed. It was painful to see him lay off a $3,200 bet on a total outsider and then front up $6,400 on the next bet, also an outsider. He kept faith in the jockey but was doomed.

Martinez is the same – he has a strategy that is just doomed.... just stupid; he has to go.

All this talk of Moshiri lobbing in huge fortunes for signings frightens me to death if RM is to get his hands on it. More McGeadys and ' Niceasses', no doubt, as 'the Philosopher's Apprentice' embarks on another bloody project. I would have felt more optimistic if the 'nearly new half-owner' had been glaring at Saturday's performance not laughing his bloody head off!

On Friday evening last, my son went to his bed at 10pm. He got up at 2:30am Saturday morning the 19th March and had a bite to eat leaving his home (Ballymartin, Kilkeel, Co Down, Northern Ireland) at 3am to travel by car 23 miles to make his connection with the airport coach and the one hour and fifteen minutes journey to the airport for his 7am flight into Liverpool, arriving at approximately 8am. From there he got the bus into Liverpool city centre and a bite to eat.

A walk around the shops (Everton 2), a couple of beers, and then on to Goodison for the game. Defeat, an afternoon/early evening meal and a catch up with some Merseyside friends and then back to the airport for his flight home, coach journey back to his car, and home for 2:30am Sunday morning.

His travel costs for the day plus match ticket and food (not including drinks) came to £262. What did he get in return? An absolute shambles of a performance from a team overseen by a manager who clearly has lost the power to motivate his team or to send his side out in a competitive frame of mind.

My son is a young married man, with a mortgage where every penny has to be counted unlike those he paid so much to go and see. Surely Mr Moshiri cannot stand by and allow such nonsense to continue in the name of Everton FC?

It was an easy thing to get Everton 'UP' for Chelsea, but the challenge was always going to be what would follow, in our next game. And now in April we have the derby with an FA Cup semi-final following it. It looks as though its going to be take your pick for either game as to which is your own choice of importance for quite clearly a Martinez-led team cannot be, 'got up with a determination,' in order to win both.

Contrast our teams weekly performances with those of Leicester, where each and every player is playing out of his skin for the shirt. From day one I always said to my Evertonian friends, following the manager's appointment that in the longer term Roberto Martinez would take us nowhere. And sadly it looks as though I will be proved correct. On the bright side at least we will not be relegated, unlike Wigan.

Oh Colin....you would make a great writer for the Daily Mail. I love our club as much as anyone but in the end....we are just a football club that interests a % of the population. If Everton (or any big multi-million pound business) decides they want to build in a public park, then people have every right to object.

There are rights and processes far more important than football (and please don't reply with the RS debate).

Different insomuch as they planned to pay for it.

So to be clear, rather than fart-arse around (for generations) looking for 'enabling business partners' (or whatever phrase Elstone/BK/Wyness prefer for 'mug who'll build a ground for fuck-all') they would pay.

Now though no construction expert, my guess is, in the world of building stuff, who pays (nb: and how) is maybe the first and most important consideration.

This might seem obvious, but apparently not to everyone.

For instance I seem to remember at the last AGM, Elstone saying, (I'm paraphrasing) "Come on fatty, get a move on and build us a boss new ground for fuck-all or I'm tellin' on you to The Echo."

Fat Joe and the LCC might not be the brightest buttons in the tin, but they showed they're (obviously) smart enough to recognise the smell of Merseyside's least efficacious snake oil.

Consequently, right now, LCC would (understandably imo) probably not be as well disposed towards us as they might be, if we hadn't tried to treat them like nob-heads.

Then there is the BK factor. As long as Kenwright has a say in the way the club is run, RM isn't going to go anywhere. It all depends how much influence Moshiri's 49% has on the board.

I personally think Martinez has taken us as far as he is able to.

This offseason is going to be the most interesting in decades.

I watched his last game for Argentina and he looked poised, assured and confident, something none of our players do under Martinez. With Argentina, he is also surrounded by real top class players, all of whom are coached the right way, I.e. to play for each other, AS A TEAM.

Don't forget, he is also the Premier League's second highest scoring defender so far this season, I think only Scott Dann has more. I honestly believe that under a better and more capable, less inept manager, he could be one of the best CBs in the league. The same could be applied to others too, (Stones, Barkley, Deulofeu for example).

The truth of the matter is simply that Martinez is an appalling excuse for a manager. If I had managed my business as he does for three years, failing to motivate my staff, consistently missing targets and losing money hand over fist, I know what the result would have been.

It really is time for the crowd to start to vent their feelings a la Arsenal fans (and they're in the top 4 for God's sake). Maybe some vocal 'Martinez out' chants and banners proclaiming the same will start to get our point across to the board. We've had enough seems to be the general consensus, so why not start letting the football world know it? At least the media appear to be slowly finding him out, a bit late in the day after treating him as their darling Roberto for so long.

Is it really a fact that this Everton's squad is the best for years, as you say? Sentence before, you mentioned how you are turning to facts, but can you support your predication about strength of team?

If he knows who he wants then about now would be a good time to bring him in, players will want to play for the new manager. We might win a home game.

But it also gives the guy a chance to look at our squad and for our squad to want to play for him, come the summer make the changes.
If only.

So, I agree that the new owner needs to line someone up quickly. Still, I don't think a change before the end of the season is possible, especially as most potential candidates would still be with clubs. Ideally, we'd do our background research and discussions in the next 2 months and appoint someone straight after the season ends. If we don't act quickly then it is highly likely we will lose key players.

BTW, my choice for the job is Roanld Koeman. Young but plenty of experience. Seems to learn from his mistakes and combines good communication style with a tough side as well.

In some ways, the main point I was trying to make is with this new guy and the extra TV cash, we maybe need to look at things in a different way. I understand we have no clue as to what his intentions are but I can't see why a billionaire would bother investing in a club and then maintain the status quo, especially our current status quo.

We fans have bought in a bit too much to the 'top 4 squad' and 'best squad since the 80s' hype and it's hard to justify in my view. In addition, several teams have now out-stripped us, like Leicester, Spurs, West Ham, and even Stoke and now Liverpool are out-performing us consistently, so the competition up there is much stronger now. So there needs to be some major surgery... maybe over several seasons.

The manager is the first amputation in this surgery. Moshiri is not an idiot but we will have to wait and see what he does, and what part BK will play in this. But, if the aim is top 4/5, this must be THE clear priority, before a penny is spent.

Part of this adjustment of our sights should also include not talking about OFM as part of any future solution. He's the past now, I hope.

Walton, Everton and Anfield are not blessed with green spaces for the locals to use, so they are entitled to oppose any development on these sites. It is simply ridiculous for you to suggest that they must be all reds.

I was against the RS building on Stanley Park and I would be against us doing the same. There must be some Brownfield sites available.
I would prefer to stay at Goodison, but if we have to move, then we should have an open mind and be prepared to move out of the City if necessary.

Speke, Garston, Aintree, Wallasey?

Some of the areas down the Dock Road as close to town as possible and visible from the waterfront would be my choice, especially now that the cruise liners have Liverpool on their agenda. Something like the site that slipped through our fingers...

Are you serious Eddie! Wallasey is not part of the City of Liverpool where we belong and where we where conceived, before the other shower.

Fucking hell, mate! Let's go the whole hog and move to Chester or Southport.

I live in Bebington by the way, so have no axe to grind this side of the water.

If we move away from the City then we've practically handed 'the City' to them.

If it's decided for whatever reason that Goodison cannot be redeveloped then somewhere near the Centre or the Waterfront should be the only alternative.

Surely we are capable of getting round the table with Peel Holdings to redeveloped the docks area. It would be ideal. Although I do recall reading in the past that they (Peel) have no interest at all.

Could Mr Moshiri and his advisors change their minds?

The only positive I can give to Martinez is that he's brought in some decent players and increased expectations. However, bringing better players in and getting rid of (some of) the deadwood is not too much good if you can't set a team up properly.

Think it was Osman that said the worst day of physical training under Martinez is easier that the easiest day under Moyes, and we wonder why the players look unfit and knackered after 70-odd mins.

Never mind the attack-minded strategy and sod defending and set-pieces etc.

Hopefully fan discontent and pure logic will lead Moshiri to get his own man in – which it is rumored is already on the cards... just have to wait and be patient.

In short... no chance.

"So look at the first picks. Are Robles, Mori, McCarthy, Cleverley anything other than squad players at this higher level? Probably not, so put them on the bench . . . are Stones and Barkley really up to it at that level? In Stones case, yes.."

That is the portion of the comment to which I responded. My post mentioned that the poster of a comment gave an opinion and then used the opinion as fact. Neat argument tactic but flawed.

Funes Mori is a starter for the Argentinian team. (Fact) Argentina are rated higher than England in FIFA rankings (Fact) Funes Mori starts for Everton. (Fact). Given the quality of Argentinian players in every major league as well as their own national league, it would seem hard to make the squad, much less start on a team with Messi in it. (Opinion) How is it then that the commenter reached his conclusion as to the quality of the players?

I fail to understand your eagerness to take a shot at me but fine, I don't particularly care for your posts either. However, I don't go out of my way to single you out, no matter how much fun it would ultimately be. So, next time stay to the topic though, okay?