Mayor still confident on deliverability of new Everton stadium

19 July  127 Comments  [Jump to last]
Joe Anderson met with Farhad Moshiri and Bill Kenwright today to discuss a new stadium for Everton which he says could still happen within two years.

The possibility that Everton finally resolve the long-standing stadium issue, either through redevelopment of Goodison Park or a new development on a brownfield site elsewhere in Liverpool, was revived after Moshiri acquired his initial 49.9% stake in the club and the options for a new site already appear to have been narrowed to two.

The council is said to favour the Stonebridge Cross site in Croxteth as it is owned by the city but Everton — along with a sizeable majority of supporters if anecdotal evidence and online polls are an indication — are believed to favour a possible location on the Mersey waterfront on the north docks.

That land is owned by Peel Holdings who have earmarked it for development as part of their large Liverpool Waters initiative but there are not, as yet, any concrete plans for what will be built there. Nevertheless, the road to a new stadium there would inherently be longer due to the need for negotiations over the possible lease or sale of the land from Peel and the transport infrastructure upgrades that would be required in the immediate vicinity.

Anderson tweeted a photograph of himself with Moshiri and Kenwright at the meeting today along with the message that he had held productive talks and that it is his belief that the club could be in a new stadium in as little as two years.

The image shows on the table a print-out of LCC's development proposal [PDF] for Stonebridge Cross, one of the Mayoral Development Zones in Liverpool that have been identified for expansion as a retail entertainment and distribution hub.

3.5 miles from Goodison Park, it sits on the west side of the M57 and a proverbial "stone's throw" over the motorway from the Destination Kirkby site that was under consideration by the club in 2007.

The waterfront site at Trafalgar and Clarence docks, meanwhile, is seen as a second — and surely last — bite at the cherry for Everton to build an iconic stadium on the banks of the Mersey, more than a decade after the collapse of the King's Dock project.  


Reader Comments (127)

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Nick Page
1 Posted 19/07/2016 at 17:13:52
Farhad fookin rules. Look at the cool bastard there, just there.

DOCKS pls

Liam Reilly
2 Posted 19/07/2016 at 17:16:13
Must be the Docks; as nothing else will dwarf them lots regeneration project. And before I'm ridiculed on here, it's not about us and them; it's about the club owing the best ground in the city;,which would be a huge step forward.
Steve Guy
4 Posted 19/07/2016 at 17:19:02
Riot if it's not the Docks.. Do it on Evertons terms not the Council
Tony Abrahams
5 Posted 19/07/2016 at 17:28:39
I hope it's true that the club, prefer a stadium on the dock Lyndon. Joe Anderson, has also said he would prefer a new ground, on a waterfront location, but whilst Everton would have to buy or rent this land, I don't think that this would be the case at Stonebridge Cross.

One seems like a dream, whereas the other seems like a very realistic opportunity, given that the council, want to give Everton the land.

I'd sooner keep dreaming for now though, because moving along the East Lancs, just doesn't feel right, when we have a chance of a ground, on the banks of the royal blue Mersey.

Paul Johnson
6 Posted 19/07/2016 at 17:43:06
Absolutely has to be docklands, I'm sure Moshiri will know our feelings by now and he will want to deliver an iconic stadium in an iconic location. Exciting times and somehow I have a feeling that Mr Moshiri is a man who gets what he wants.
Steve Hogan
7 Posted 19/07/2016 at 17:44:06
I've never worked in construction, and I don't want to piss on anyone's parade, but the only way a new stadium could be built within two years is if it's a very simple format ie four separate sides (similar to Kirkby), and on land already owned and ready for development by LCC.

Just can't see a stadium we all want clearing planning on the waterfront or building the road infrastructure to cope with a 50,000-seater stadium, all inside a two-year framework.

If anyone from inside the industry thinks differently, please inform me otherwise?

Brian Harrison
8 Posted 19/07/2016 at 17:49:51
Well if the docks is the preferred site, then shouldn't Everton be speaking to Peel Holdings rather than Joe Anderson. Also why is Anderson and not Everton putting a time scale on this proposed move. But this is Everton so looks like it will be Stonebridge rather than the docks.
Phil Bellis
9 Posted 19/07/2016 at 17:51:35
Docky not Crocky.... credit to Eugene
Terence Tyler
10 Posted 19/07/2016 at 17:54:38
We could do with something more concrete on this subject (no pun intended). As with all the transfer speculation it's time for actions to speak louder than words.
Jay Harris
11 Posted 19/07/2016 at 18:06:01
Its time for Anderson to stop being a fanboy and speaking on behalf of the club and for the club to announce some plans and a time frame.
As most have said 2 years seems like wishful thinking especially as Peel Holdings hold all the cards(no pun intended).
Be interested to know Tom and Trevor's views on this if you guys are looking in.
Tony Abrahams
12 Posted 19/07/2016 at 18:10:55
I would agree with you Brian, but I've heard that if the stadium was on the docks, it will not be getting called in by local Goverment, as long as they stick to certain guidelines, with regards to retail.

Maybe that's what they were discussing? But no way could we be "on the waterfront" in 2/3 years.

I'm still dreaming though, especially since the council want to invest in new ferryboats, and I don't think it would be that hard to put up another new railway station between Moorfields and Sandhills!

Anthony Newell
13 Posted 19/07/2016 at 18:24:49
Good to see the main man in the box seat.

Absolutely needs to be waterfront on the banks of the royal blue Mersey Any other pamphlets or proposals need to be cast aside, especially anything theorising that 10,000 fans could arrive by bicycle.
Gordon Crawford
14 Posted 19/07/2016 at 18:27:02
I hope we get the banks of the Mersey. But as others have said, two years speaks of a Kirkby style stadium. And even then that's seriously tight.
Terence Tyler
15 Posted 19/07/2016 at 18:37:32
Would much prefer a docks waterfront stadium than stonebridge cross area, likewise the water voles who were moved from the banks of the river Alt at kirkby, and relocated a couple of miles down river to the stonebridge area, to make way for the proposed new Tesco supermarket and Everton football stadium. Should imagine they will be really ------ off, if the have to move again.
Brent Stephens
16 Posted 19/07/2016 at 18:38:24
Could it be built in stages? Enough for, say, 40,000 in the first season (say, 2017-18! ok, not that soon!) - and then add the rest the following summer? Not sure if that would synch with Commonwealth Games which is a factor in Anderson's thinking.
Liam Reilly
17 Posted 19/07/2016 at 18:39:04
2 years is still relatively a long time in construction and with the right backing anything is possible.

If Liverpool want the Commonwealth games and this stadium is to be at the core of its bid; it simply must be on the Docks.

The club cannot miss this second chance.

John McHugh
19 Posted 19/07/2016 at 18:42:17
Don't want to be a Jonah and piss on everyone's chips but we've heard all this before.
I won't believe a word of it until the first spade is in the ground.

We've had too many false dawns under this regime and although there seems to be a new owner we've yet to sign anyone. Let's hope and pray I'm proved massively wrong.

Pessimistic Blue.
Colin Glassar
20 Posted 19/07/2016 at 18:42:37
Docks all day long. I've never heard of anyone backing Crocky over the docks but there's no chance in hell that it could be built in two years unless it's a pre-fab.
Geoff Williams
21 Posted 19/07/2016 at 18:49:03
It has to be the docks, period!
Dermot O'Brien
22 Posted 19/07/2016 at 19:11:34
I have a bad feeling about this. We'll get Stonebridge. It'll be like waking up on Christmas morning hoping for a new Raleigh racer but getting your granny's high nelly with a paint job.

Please please please be the docks.

Les Martin
23 Posted 19/07/2016 at 19:20:55
This is obviously going to happen, you don't get the Councillor to a meeting, and for him to make this kind of statement without it going ahead.
Quite rightly the consensus of opinion is that we want the docks, I therefore hope that you all lobby the board and get your letter in proposing the same.
Hopefully we will then get the stadium we want, and where we should be in the heart, or damn close to the City centre
Kevin Day
24 Posted 19/07/2016 at 19:21:59
Steve @7....

It's not just building the roads that is the issue, these can be built whilst construction goes on, they only need a base laid to get construction traffic in and out, which is then topped when final finishes applied, however, the sticking point maybe the adoption of the roads after, the council may not want the extra expense.

Mike Bird
25 Posted 19/07/2016 at 19:25:37
Two years is out of the question. Just look how long it's taking to add one side at Anfield, and that's just built with Lego!
Phil Walling
26 Posted 19/07/2016 at 19:43:47
Won't happen in my lifetime - not riverside, anyway !
Brian Harrison
27 Posted 19/07/2016 at 19:45:33
I know I have reached the age were I forget more than I remember, but didn't Joe Anderson tell us about 6 weeks ago we would be in a new stadium in 3 years. I wonder how he has managed to knock 12 months off the project.
Dave Williams
28 Posted 19/07/2016 at 19:46:21
That's twice recently that Anderson has spoken in very positive terms but significantly no comment whatsoever from the club and quite right too!

If the club is considering the docks then it has a lot of negotiating to do and of course a two year timeframe is impossible. Anderson could well be trying to talk up Stonebridge because he thinks it would be of more benefit to the City by regenerating an area which otherwise will not attract investment whilst if we don't go to the docks some form of regeneration will inevitably take place there in the future.

Moshiri does not appear to be a man who conducts his business in the gaze of the public and I suspect the first we will really know about this is when whatever the deal is has been done. A two year timescale is unrealistic in any event- wherever we end up I can't see Moshiri doing it on the cheap as the new stadium is the bedrock of his investment and will generate the return on his money which a businessman seeks and I can't see him settling for a quick and cheap option.

I'd ignore what Anderson is saying and just regard it as a promising sound bite but with no real substance until the main man ie..Moshiri has spoken

Terence Tyler
29 Posted 19/07/2016 at 19:46:56
New director of football deal agreed. Lets hope docks land deal is next
Rob Halligan
30 Posted 19/07/2016 at 19:56:20
Not sure on all the political aspects of a new stadium, i.e. planning permission etc. But in my opinion, a new stadium on the waterfront could easily be completed anytime between 2-3 years.

The Emirates stadium was completed in a time scale between Feb 04 - July 06. A total of 30 months.

These new stadiums are pre built elsewhere and then pieced together on site. The hardest part, in my opinion is probably digging the foundations out. Obviously the inner construction i.e. seating, concourses etc would take some time, but again, all the concrete slabbing is already made and brought in. Working 24/7 and this could easily be done in less than three years.

The new bridge over the river Mersey will be completed in autumn 2017. Work on this started in May 2014. A total of just over three years. Not sure how long this new bridge is, but to complete this in a short time scale is some going.

A new stadium should be a piece of cake!!

Phil Walling
31 Posted 19/07/2016 at 19:57:39
Moshiri doesn't conduct his business in the public gaze, eh ?

Which of us didn't know Koeman was his man and he wants Walsh to work with him ?

But why should he need to operate in secret anyway ?

Helen Mallon
32 Posted 19/07/2016 at 20:01:57
if 2 yrs is the time scale I think the docks is on. I think if its the brown field site it would take more time as there are other things to be built the docks is just a stadium.
Ray Said
33 Posted 19/07/2016 at 20:09:31
The land in the docklands held by Peel is part of the Liverpool Waters Enterprise Zone (EZ). There are huge benefits for the club in having a stadium there. Moshiri will be well aware of these benefits-unlike bumbling Bill-as are Peel aware of the benefit of having a major 'anchor' on the site. Peel have tried to engage Everton in the past and from what I was told -and posted on TW at the time-they bent over backwards but Bill is Bill and we know his record.


Like Rob (30) i think it can be done and point out that, in terms of time scale, the construction work on the 42 acre Liverpool One site started in Autumn 2004 and the first occupant moved into the site in July 2006. With the will, enough money and 'fast track' planning permission that comes with being part of the EZ a stadium could be built in two/three years.

Ron Marr
34 Posted 19/07/2016 at 20:15:42
Agreed. Docky not Crocky. Great one Eugene!
Tony Abrahams
35 Posted 19/07/2016 at 20:22:22
People who have zoomed in, and spun the picture around, have seen that it's a brochure of Stonebridge, sitting on the table Infront of Moshiri.

Could have been another one underneath, but please don't try and fucking nail us, to the Stonebridge cross.

Nick Page
36 Posted 19/07/2016 at 20:22:37
"I've never worked in construction but..."

Brilliant.

Evertonians in a nut shell that.

Peter Mills
37 Posted 19/07/2016 at 20:23:22
I can't imagine Joe Anderson is speaking in isolation here, following a private conference with Everton's two main men.

It sounds to me as though a site at Stonebridge Cross is ready and waiting, but all 3 men would prefer a more glamorous Dockland site. So this is more of a "Come on Peel Holdings, it's now or never, if you want a prestigious stadium on your land then cut a deal".

Peel Holdings have been around for a long time, they tend to play things at their pace. But then again, I suspect the current queue of potential occupiers of this dockland location is pretty short.

Mark Ryan
38 Posted 19/07/2016 at 20:28:35
I saw a stadium built on what was deemed waste ground. No issues with roads in and out. No houses to worry about that needed demolishing etc etc.

>They unearthed old sewerage that they didn't know existed. Had to install over a thousand outlet pipes to give off methane gas over a 30-year plan. The ground had old earthworks which kept collapsing and the headaches grew and grew.

The Croxteth plan needs shelving and I am all for rioting if Anderson wants it there. Anyway until I read Steve's strawberry-pissing post at #7, I was really excited, so please, Steve, join us just for a moment so we can dream. What you say is right and proper but I would love it (to quote the permed one), I would love it if it was on the waterfront with one seat more than Anfield – or better still, 20,000 and 1 more seats. We need to be back to where we where when all this started. The only team in Liverpool.

Charles Brewer
39 Posted 19/07/2016 at 20:37:31
Well I worked in construction! I drove a construction train on the loop line, and was there when the police turned up after half a dozen JCBs had disappeared the night before. (The Irish lads on the site reckoned they were already in Limerick with a new paint job). We were also involved in trying to hide a very large erratic boulder which had been dug up. I also made some extra money from the brickies by driving my dumper truck into their walls just after they had been inspected.

I was also on a big housing project at the top of Low Hill, where the only problem was that the builders got the plan 90 degrees out. I was one of the group who was sent out to move the boundary posts secretly when the council surveyors turned up.

I don't think anyone has any idea how long it takes to build anything. I found all this very useful when I went on to study philosophy at Edinburgh and can give a plausible argument in favour of nearly anything.

Paul Doyle
40 Posted 19/07/2016 at 21:09:58
2 years seems a really short time to deliver a new stadium. It took 3 years to demolish Anfield into a wasteland (an improvement) and then create Kloppa Kastle, for what £200 m?

I suppose it depends on the builders we use, maybe Mr Moshiri and Bill "live an kickin" Kenwright will use that Manc fella off Cowboy Builders, loft conversations with double extensions all done in a week for 10k. Melinda Messenger can flash her tits around Ryan's plumbing for some free urinal troughs.

Dave Williams
41 Posted 19/07/2016 at 21:13:09
Phil, no he doesn't conduct his business in public. Show me a statement by him relating to Koeman or Walsh. I have never heard him pronounce on either and neither has he said a word about the location or timing of a stadium.

The man can't stop the press from speculating, and let's face it, Koeman was a pretty obvious choice in any event. The point I was making was that, regardless of what Anderson might say, it is only when Moshiri makes a statement that we should really get excited.

Ken Williams
42 Posted 19/07/2016 at 21:14:17
If it hasn't already been said, we need to remember that Joe Anderton is touting for votes for Mayor of Merseyside. At the end of the day, I am sure that the majority would prefer an iconic stadium on the banks of the Mersey. At least it gives us all something to dream about when looking at the carbuncle the RS are building.
Ian Horan
43 Posted 19/07/2016 at 21:24:39
Hi guys, first time poster. The timeframe is realistic. The Alliance Arena went from first spade in the ground, 21 October 2002, and officially opened May 2005. Link

If Peel don't allow the docks, the old Garden Festival site has planning for housing and leisure but no retail. There's a viable alternative.

Simon Roberts
44 Posted 19/07/2016 at 21:24:49
On the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey! COYB
Tony Abrahams
45 Posted 19/07/2016 at 21:25:21
Phil, you seem like the fella, who has picked out the winning lottery numbers 3 times, but always forgot to put the ticket on.

No loyalty in football, I agree, but I'm sure when Steve Walsh was a player, Everton were still one of the biggest clubs out there, so let's hope history can start repeating itself again!

Tony Dove
46 Posted 19/07/2016 at 21:29:03
As on previous occasions, wake me up when the latest 'plan' is shelved.
Martin Mason
48 Posted 19/07/2016 at 21:41:04
I don't believe that a dockside stadium is on the club's agenda because of the costs in buying the land and providing access.

We can dream but for me it just isn't going to happen.

Colin Glassar
49 Posted 19/07/2016 at 22:02:35
You'd think Bill would've at least buttoned his shirt properly for the photo wouldn't you? He looks like some dosser who's gate crashed the party.
Andrew James
50 Posted 19/07/2016 at 22:06:04
The body language in the photo is telling. The Mayor is addressing a relaxed Moshiri who also sits in the middle and with the paperwork in front of him.

BK is merely the second in command, the onlooker.

Chris Williamson
51 Posted 19/07/2016 at 22:11:59
Docks – gotta be the docks... Moshiri's legacy. It would encourage us to keep the ball on the deck too, cos else we'd lose a lot of match balls into the river.
Paul Hewitt
52 Posted 19/07/2016 at 22:19:41
I do work in construction, and 2 years to build a new stadium is optimistic.
Rob Halligan
53 Posted 19/07/2016 at 22:40:07
Yeah, but Paul you lay bricks. New stadiums have no bricks!!
Ian Cowhig
55 Posted 19/07/2016 at 23:10:22
Interesting tweet from Joe.
'Great meeting with Farhad'
No mention of BK.
Get the tea made Bill.
Nick Armitage
56 Posted 19/07/2016 at 23:12:06
Was talking to a bloke involved with heavy plant for Peel a few weeks back and he reckons a stadium there is a big possibility. Peel want an impressive skyline for the cruise ships and a lot of infrastructure to support big developments are going in now. Joe says 2 years is possible (tall order) but I'm sure we'd rather wait 3 or 4 for Peel and the docks. Big things about to happen in this part of the world and I think this is the reason Moshiri has come onboard.
Mike Green
57 Posted 19/07/2016 at 23:26:22
This isn't Everton pitching to the Council, it's the Council pitching to Everton.

The Council want it to be Stonebridge Cross; give over dead land for serious long term revenues. I'm a cynic but why hand that opportunity to Peel Holdings?

I think Moshiri wants the Docks too, he's just playing nice with Anderson along the way. Hopefully.

Laurie Hartley
58 Posted 19/07/2016 at 23:38:39
It has to be the Docklands. Regarding the construction time - the Doclands Stadium in Melbourne was built in two and a half years:

Link

Announcement - Oct 1996
Construction commenced - Oct 1997
First match - March 2000.

Melbourne at that time was one of the hardest places in the world to build due to industrial relations.

I think Farhad Moshire wants the best for the long term future of the club and the fans. I live in the hope that he and his associates will find a way to make it happen.

Steve Powell
59 Posted 19/07/2016 at 00:00:19
2 years from when?
Peter Laing
60 Posted 20/07/2016 at 00:32:52
I'm probably going to be controvsial here but if Stonebridge makes the most sense from an economical perspective and Moshiri is putting his money behind it then I personally don't have a problem. The East Lancs is in need of some serious regeneration and with a new stadium and infrastructure the whole area could be transformed. In terms of the docks, am I right in assuming that it's Clarence Dock ? If so, it's a fair bit along the waterfront from the City centre and isn't exactly the prime location that is Kings Dock. If a monorail etc could be constructed Clarence Dock could be an option but if it means years of wrangling and falling further behind the pack in terms of development I wouldn't be so averse to Stonebridge 'home of Wayne Rooney' ha ha
Gordon Crawford
61 Posted 20/07/2016 at 01:22:55
Good question Steve Powell. It could be two years from next December. Also welcome Ian Horan, Toffeeweb is the place to be. :)
Mick Davies
62 Posted 20/07/2016 at 02:07:20
"Don't wanna go, down to, Electric Avenue" . . . "I wanna move on up to the waterfront"

I have worked in the construction industry and if the will (and onsite bonuses) is there, plus the weather is kind, it could be done in 3 years, or a bit less. I feel more confident with our new owner running the show and not Mr Showbiz - if it was up to him, we'd probably end up in a cowfield outside Winsford, or groundsharing with Tranmere

Derek Thomas
63 Posted 20/07/2016 at 03:10:52
1) Waterfront/Redevelopment Goodison; deadheat after a photo finish.

3) Crocky / DK Mk II - by 10 lengths.

Don't rush it, be rushed into it to fit an unrealistic time frame.

If it takes 4+yrs. - Do it Once, DO IT RIGHT.

Martin Faulkner
64 Posted 20/07/2016 at 03:22:23
Laurie
"Melbourne at that time was one of the hardest places in the world to build due to industrial relations."

It still is mate, I've done shutdowns there and they don't come out the sheds if it's raining !!

Keith Edmunds
65 Posted 20/07/2016 at 03:38:12
First things first. Need to confirm the site, and sign contracts. Then, 6 - 12 months for design and documentation, tendering and building contract, followed by 2 years construction.

So with a bit of contingency I'd say 3 years AFTER site all tied up and agreements in place.

Matt Traynor
66 Posted 20/07/2016 at 03:41:09
Years ago (maybe around 2008) there were people posting on here saying Peel were willing to give up a Central Docks site, but would not deal with Everton whilst Kenwright had any control. I know John Wilkinson is no Everton fan but he is a businessman and wouldn't let anti-Everton bias affect decisions – one of their developing companies has an office in the shadow of Old Trafford and use their corporate facilities for meetings...

I doubt very much anything has changed in his eyes. As long as Kenwright is the mouthpiece of Everton, that door is closed.

Crocky here we come.... maybe. (Of course the corollary is that, with Kenwright still being involved, there's a better-than-even chance it won't happen.)

Eric Myles
67 Posted 20/07/2016 at 03:47:20
I'd say you're right Steve #7, 2 years is a short timeframe considering a stadium would also need designing and engineering, unless that's already in progress.

Brian #8, Peel would presumably need planning permission for anything they build and maybe LCC could advise them that for a stadium there would be no opposition?

Rick Tarleton
68 Posted 20/07/2016 at 06:26:23
The new stadium is the litmus test for Moshiri. It really does have to happen. Goodison Park is a Victorian relic and we need a new stadium so much. Ideally a riverside location in the centre of things, if all the logistics can be sorted. This must not be Moshiri's King Dock fiasco. I await developments.
John McGimpsey
69 Posted 20/07/2016 at 07:00:57
The dock would be my choice but, as someone else wrote, it is along the road – not bang-on city centre. Timescale is another thing mentioned by fat arse Joe. The land on Crocky has had extensive ground work done there for over 18 months and seems ready to begin work.

If the docks don't happen, the Crocky site will. If so, make it bigger than the Red Shite so we visiting supporters who are coming to the city via the East Lancs, they will see a jewel and then piss themselves when they see Anfield in a complete shithole. No way out for the Red Shite forever in a dump with scruffs, smackheads and ale boffs...

As the Crocky site would be on the left of traffic as they come off the motorway, what a sight it would look... Again the docks is my preference but I won't not the other gaff – better than Kirkby! COYB

Colin Glassar
70 Posted 20/07/2016 at 07:55:57
Agree with some of the guys above regarding the timescale for building. I've worked in project management and this will take at least three possibly four years to complete. We don't even have a blueprint/design as far as I know.
Eric Myles
71 Posted 20/07/2016 at 08:02:22
Colin, that's what's worrying about a 2-year timescale. Kenwright probably still has that back of a fag packet design for Desperation Kirkby in his back pocket.
Andrew Clare
72 Posted 20/07/2016 at 08:28:14
Sunderland built The stadium of light in just over a year so construction time is not a problem. It's the location that is of utmost importance. Get it wrong and you are in the wilderness in more ways than one, get it right and it becomes an iconic landmark.

It's gotta be the docklands, no question.

Roger Helm
73 Posted 20/07/2016 at 08:33:05
I know a waterfront stadium would be more iconic and be a good sight for cruise ships (for those interested in that kind of thing) but remember that many Evertonians are non-scousers travelling from a good distance (100 miles in my case) every home game and access into the city centre would be more difficult. Would there be any car parking near a dockside stadium?
Ian Cowhig
74 Posted 20/07/2016 at 08:39:20
There will already be designs that could be used on a green field site. It would all be about whether the design fits the footprint and club requirements for capacity, aesthetics etc..

The specifics, eg, Corporate boxes etc, can be finalised as the build takes shape, but again there will be some guide based on where those designs have been used previously.

Anthony Dwyer
75 Posted 20/07/2016 at 08:49:20
A move to the docks would really be a huge statement.

Instead of walking around Walton in and out of shit hole pubs on a hot summers day, we can be strolling around water front venues or sitting outside on a waterfront terrace.

I know we are all there for the football, but a nice bit of scenery and the smell of the docks instead of Walton KFC all adds to the day, especially with returning away fans.

Eric Myles
76 Posted 20/07/2016 at 08:50:33
"The specifics, eg, Corporate boxes etc, can be finalised as the build takes shape"

Good business for the QSs and claims specialists then!

Tony Abrahams
77 Posted 20/07/2016 at 08:59:45
Early days Roger, but I think travelling by car would pose the biggest problem, if you had to get to this location.

I'm sure they could get round this in the end with a new ferry terminal, and train station, amongst the options (for park & ride) but the East Lancs would obviously be a much easier ground to get to by road.

A ground on the East Lancs Road would have very little soul in comparison to the waterfront, though, and would be a much harder ground to get to for most of the people who don't travel to the game by car.

Sam Hoare
78 Posted 20/07/2016 at 09:04:08
I've not spent a lot of time in Liverpool and as such have little clue what I'm talking about but, from a more distant perspective, the quality and design of the stadium is far more important than its location.

Fans will get to wherever the stadium is and one on the outskirts may be easier for some fans than one in the city.I would rather a 10-out-of-10 stadium in a less glamorous location that can ensure big upturns in matchday revenue and others for years to come, than a 7-out-of-10 stadium in prime location.

Of course, in an ideal world, you could have the best of both but, in my experience, you usually have to compromise on something when house-hunting.

Eric Myles
79 Posted 20/07/2016 at 09:07:43
Sam, but the prime location would increase non-matchday revenue which would be more beneficial financially.
Tony Waring
80 Posted 20/07/2016 at 09:11:31
Anthony (13) – fully agree; after all, where the hell are you going to find enough back yards to park 10,000 bikes?
Roy Noon
81 Posted 20/07/2016 at 09:13:35
What I found interesting about yesterday's meeting, is that it was Farhad who attended, not one of his appointed representatives. Of course, this may mean nothing, but my spider sense tells me that Farhad means business and wants to get the stadium issue rolling.

It would seem, based on Joe Anderson's excited statement, that he was clearly enthused and seems really optimistic.... why issue such a statement if he wasn't? (Putting the mayoral thing to one side for the moment...)

So, where is the new home gonna be? I would suggest that if this 2-year deliverability thing is possible, it would almost certainly be Stonebridge? Now, like everyone else, I hope I'm wrong.

Personally I would like to see a spectacular phased redevelopment of Goodison Park – that's not gonna happen. It therefore must be the North Docks. Given that Peel Holdings and not the Corporation own that site, the only thing that could be concluded in 2 years is the purchase, rent or lease of the land from Peel, the drawing up and submission of plans for the stadium and surrounding infrastructure, not taking account of any local objections or subsequent public enquiries. Perhaps the Stonebridge site could be faced with similar issues? Though, I suspect Joe is already using his substantial influence to "fast track" it through the bureaucratic channels.

To conclude, not that he needs my advice, it's don't fall for Joe's blag, Farhad. It's the waterfront or nothing! You can even name it after yourself.... roll on to the "Mosh Pit"!

Tony Abrahams
82 Posted 20/07/2016 at 09:16:12
Anthony, I never had you down as a snob mate!

I love the fact, that County Road gives us an identity that the other crowd don't seem to have, and to be anywhere along that Road when Everton have won a big game is always a lovely happy occasion.

I was driving along it before the Bellow fight and my misses was saying, "What's going on here?" It was hot and sunny, and everyone was outside the boozers, enjoying themselves.

"Bellow's fighting," I said. It did make me proud to see the way Evertonians take over that road, and it is definitely a big part of our heritage.

That is why The Docks, is imperative to me, because Stonebridge Cross would take away too much soul, and this has always been one of Everton Football Club's greatest ever assets.

Joe O'Brien
83 Posted 20/07/2016 at 09:23:09
I'm sure Moshiri knows the feelings of us supporters by now with regards to which site we'd prefer to have the stadium built. I don't think it'll come down to which will be the cheapest option. He's going to go for a waterfront stadium all day long. Anyone know will Peel Holdings be interested? I think it'll come down to that.

As for the mayor's 2-year timescale, I don't think it's a 2-year project or nothing, so no need to be on about: "No way it can't be built in that time" or "Yes, way it can."

I'd be happy with moving into a shiny new stadium on the waterfront in 3/4 years. Even though, if it's going to happen, it'll happen a lot sooner. Moshiri doesn't seem to be the type of man to take things slow.

Dennis Stevens
84 Posted 20/07/2016 at 09:23:41
Tbh, I'd prefer to see Goodison Park redeveloped, which I'm sure would be the better value option, even with some investment in increasing the footprint. However, the right stadium on the Mersey would be a good reason to relocate, if we must.
Paul Johnson
85 Posted 20/07/2016 at 09:35:02
Personally a Stade Velodrome (Marseilles) would be perfect down on the dock site. Fans close to the pitch and big banks on all four sides. 60k plus. It fits all the criteria and looks absolutely fantastic from the outside while producing a terrific atmosphere inside.
Anthony Dwyer
86 Posted 20/07/2016 at 09:37:01
Tony Abrahams (#87).

You have to realise, mate, I'm from a very exclusive part of the city (Kensington L6); this may be were my snobby views come from.... Haha

Jokes aside, if we can't stay at Goodison, then why not go down the luxury route instead of putting us in no man's land? Taking over County Road is one thing, but ruling the town centre sets a bigger precedence.

We have been the second team in the city for too long; a dock stadium near Liverpool 2 would put us right in the mixer for the millions of tourists our city have every year.

Unfortunately, tourists travel to Anfield for a tour and some souvenirs etc, whereas most barely acknowledge our existence.

Take us to the docks, Farhad!

Sam Hoare
87 Posted 20/07/2016 at 09:54:29
Eric 79, I'd say its the quality of the stadium that provides non-matchday revenue.

Somewhere like Wembley is in a fairly unglamorous location London-wise but is still used for concerts/events non-stop because of what it provides. Same with the O2 in a way though obviously it is riverside.

If its a great stadium fit for multi purpose then I'd say that's better than a mediocre stadium in a good spot (like Stamford Bridge).

John Louis Jones
88 Posted 20/07/2016 at 10:07:38
Got to be the Dock. In the brochure that is in front of Mr Moshri, on the last page it shows the development areas in Liverpool. Zone 3 is the Liverpool Mayoral Development Zone and it is on the waterfront.

I did send a link to a LinkedIn profile to Lyndon of a guy that was working on the facelift of Goodison and was also advisor of the waterfront stadium a couple of weeks ago, if Lyndon remembers.

James Morgan
89 Posted 20/07/2016 at 10:11:14
On a side note, the two Mikes are discussing the ambition of us and the Red Shite and how Manchester are outdoing us.
James Hughes
90 Posted 20/07/2016 at 10:19:57
Got to be the docks for me and Joe to get a business plan together to improve transport links. Strong-arm the government to give us some financial backing for a light railway, same as they have in the docklands in London.

Our glorious city helped build and shape this country and we were innovating whilst our lovely cockney barrow boys mates in the south thought selling roasted chestnuts was genius. (Sorry, I live in Essex and too many think they created the UK.)

John Louis Jones
91 Posted 20/07/2016 at 10:20:52
Found it!

Derek Wilson Of WilsonOwensOwens: His Summary off LinkedIn:

Stadiums and Grandstands

Goodwood Racecourse
Turf Moor, Burnley FC
John Smiths Stadium, Huddersfield Town FC, Huddersfield Giants & Kirklees Council
Macron Stadium, Bolton Wanderers FC
Emirates Stadium, Arsenal FC
Croke Park, Dublin for GAA
Le Havre FC New Stadium
AFC Wimbledon New Stadium
Waterfront, Goodison Park & advisor to Everton FC
Perth Stadium

Events

Sydney 2000
Turin 2006
Delhi 2010
London 2012
Sochi 2014
Glasgow 2014
England 2015
Baku 2015
Baku Euros 2020
Rome 2020
Super Bowl 2005 - 2014

Advisory

Sports Ground Safety Authority - Board member
Advisory Group on Temporary Structures
Spectator Facilities standards for BSi and Cen

Their Company Website : http://wilsonowensowens.com

I won't put his personal LinkedIn page on as it is not fair and he might get a few hundred views and it will freak him out.

Eugene Ruane
93 Posted 20/07/2016 at 12:56:21
The difference between..er..'docky and crocky' is imo immense.

Croxteth for me will mean 'mehh, why bother?'

The dock (ie: being part of the city skyline) would put a pogo-jump sized spring in my step and I'm guessing in the step of every Evertonian in the world (and in an instant makes the other shower look like the hillbillies and bad wools they are).

Ian Pilkington
94 Posted 20/07/2016 at 12:57:50
Croxteth: over 5 miles from the city centre in a run down area with minimal public transport facilities, but close to the M57 and A580 with room for huge car parks, ideally placed for interminable pre and post match traffic jams. In other words Kirkby without the Tesco.

North Docks: 1 mile from the city centre, prestigious waterfront location, close to Sandhills Station and possible new station at Vauxhall, reasonable road access to most parts of the city including the tunnels. Also leaves LFC standing out of sight at Anfield.

The only choice for Mr Moshiri.

John Malone
95 Posted 20/07/2016 at 13:05:19
As much as everyone wants the dock site, if you look at it from a purely business point of view, it isn't going to happen.

The Stonebridge Cross site is right on the East Lancs Road on a fairly quiet section between Croxteth and Kirkby. It is just off the M57 motorway which is as everyone knows linked to all the major routes surrounding the city.

The land is classed as a Brownfield site which the council own and would love to put to good use would be sold for cheap or even for free to allow the regeneration of the surrounding area of Croxteth.

I myself even though living in Kirkby want us to build on the grand waterfront setting of the docks and be part of the city's skyline, but as I've said above and as has recently been proven by Bill and the board the will go wherever is cheapest and easiest!

The site on the Dock, for all its waterfront location and prestige, only has one major route by car which is the strand what is already packed every Saturday and is on private owned land which would most definitely cost more to purchase.

Another point is, if it goes to a vote, which it has in the past, Kirkby and the surrounding areas of North Liverpool are saturated with Evertonians who would no doubt vote for the Stadium to be built down the road from where they live.

Andrew Myers
96 Posted 20/07/2016 at 13:08:51
I would love a dockside stadium as it would send out a statement, but I believe Peel Holdings to be very difficult to deal with and they are against stadium development. On that basis, a stadium In 2/3 years is almost certainly out of the question.

Me thinks Croxteth will rise to the top as a more practical option. Moshiri may or may not listen to supporters but you can guarantee he will base his decision on a business basis, as at the end of the day, that is what he is.

On a final note, I don't expect a Kenwright-style vote on the new proposed stadium; Moshiri will make a decision and stick to it, regardless of supporters' views.

Craig Walker
97 Posted 20/07/2016 at 13:16:57
My brother has bought a new-build, 4-bedroom house that has so far taken 14 months to be built and is still not ready. I can't believe Everton could build an entire 50,000-seater stadium in 2 years.

I haven't been up to the ground over summer. How is the cladding project coming along?

In answer to the location question, we had a once in a lifetime opportunity to transform the fortunes of our club by getting a prestigious waterfront development and we blew it. With hindsight, it looked a catastrophic decision. We now have the only opportunity we will ever have to put Everton FC back where it belongs. Please, Mr Moshiri, don't blow it over transport links and escalating costs. This isn't just a star striker for a few seasons, it is a decision which could reap benefits for our football club for generations.

Eric Myles
98 Posted 20/07/2016 at 13:49:09
Sam (#87), I'd say it's the transport links in those London locations. Put a quality stadium in Croxteth with no tube links and it's a problem.
Eric Myles
99 Posted 20/07/2016 at 13:55:39
Anthony (#92), I always thought Kensington was L7 with me being from the upper market L6 of Fairfield, but I seldom crossed the road to 'the dark side'.
Ian Horan
100 Posted 20/07/2016 at 14:02:39
Thanks Gordon at 61 for the welcome, ToffeeWeb has been my guilty pleasure for a number of years, always love the passionate debate, so I thought on this subject I could offer an informed opinion due to my years in development and building.
Geoff Williams
101 Posted 20/07/2016 at 14:44:27
Two years to build a new ground is totally unrealistic. The planning stage will take two years and the build a further two years.
James Flynn
102 Posted 20/07/2016 at 15:03:51
This 2-year thing is a rabbit-hole. I can't understand why so many want to go down it. It's just a number the mayor threw out. He said 3 years a few weeks ago. So what? It's meaningless in the context of how Moshiri is going forward with the re-furbish/new stadium decision.
Mark Ryan
103 Posted 20/07/2016 at 15:19:14
Quite simply, if we are going to be where Moshiri wants us to be, it will be the Waterfront. He's a billionaire. He not a branch manager for Johnny Bag.

For those saying it will be more money, you needn't worry. It's not your money so fret not. He is not going to scrimp. We will not only have the best stadium in Liverpool but the best stadium in the North West.

Pointless arguing over timescales, it's going to happen and, quite frankly, if it's ready to walk into within 3-5 years, I would be one happy blue. It's all about being better than the rest. It's his toy. Let him play with it.

Lewis Montgomery
104 Posted 20/07/2016 at 15:36:13
Go for the most cost-effective option I say. All this clamour for a centrepiece docklands stadium seems 90% born out of vanity, and our deep-rooted inferiority complex. It won't turn us into Bayern Munich, will no doubt cost more, and will be more difficult to park near. Pipe dream – get over it and move on.
Anthony Dwyer
105 Posted 20/07/2016 at 16:02:51
Eric #99.
Love it, mate!!!

Tony if you have ever been to Fairfield, you would really get to grips with some 'snobs'.

I mean these people have their own L7 village and their own park, while us riff-raff in L6 have a Lidl with a car park... ;-).

Anthony Dwyer
106 Posted 20/07/2016 at 16:05:58
All jokes aside, I want to ask a completely different question.

Who on here believes we are involved in a €50m bid for Koulibaly?

I believe we have funds, and I believe Stones may go to Man City, but I just can't see this deal happening.

A €50m defender as our first signing!?!

Eric Myles
107 Posted 20/07/2016 at 16:29:34
You must have had a few pints in the Lister? Shiel? Or Edinburgh? when you were going to the upmarket bistros of our side then Anthony?
Rob Henderson
108 Posted 20/07/2016 at 16:37:46
Architects have been looking at a feasibility on the dockside since March this year so I'd expect there to be a scheme somewhere which links into the land around the Titanic and Tobacco factory where there is a large master planning scheme showing new station, pedestrianised roads and a huge amount of new build residential, commercial development but centred around leisure and culture.

Timescales do seem optimistic especially bearing in mind the infrastructure that will be needed but I'm really interested in Joe's tweets this afternoon where he is pushing for the dock.

If they can tie the two land owners together it could be a fantastic opportunity not only for the blues but for the city.

Brian Williams
109 Posted 20/07/2016 at 16:56:03
Anthony#106.
Anthony I believe it's very possible if Stones is to go for circa £50m. Makes really good sense too. Replace someone with loads of potential who's took a fair bit of stick for his defending skills with an absolute beast of a player who has just about got the lot!
Brian Williams
110 Posted 20/07/2016 at 17:01:15
Lewisi#104.
Sorry Lewis but your view seems to smack of lack of ambition and a bit of "know your place mentality."
If we're gonna reach the dizzy heights you have think big and aim for the top.
Surely you can understand wanting to outdo the other shower, but that shouldn't be what it's ALL about.
If all your thinking about is the cost increase and difficulty in parking it seems a pretty negative outlook.

Ray Roche
111 Posted 20/07/2016 at 17:28:37

John Malone #95

John you say,

"recently been proven by Bill and the board the will go wherever is cheapest and easiest!"

Surely that is the OLD board with the old set of rules? Do you think Mr Moshiri has the same mindset as Kenwright? I don't. Further more I'm sure he can see through Bill's flowery prose and will make his own mind up about things without having to take much notice of Bill, a fading power with declining influence if ever we saw one.

Phil Bellis
112 Posted 20/07/2016 at 17:30:12
Lewis's thinking is typical of the plucky little Everton mentality championed by the "realists" who have sneered at our motto for years
Stuff all that...go for it
Eugene Ruane
113 Posted 20/07/2016 at 17:30:17
Given Lewis Montgomery's obvious don't get out of your hole, know-your-place mentality (104) I am thinking of taking bets on past jobs he might have had.

Current odds..

Army Batman - 6/1

Gentleman's Gentleman - 12/1

Feller in posh hotel bogs who brushes your jacket with a clothes brush while asking 'has sir had a nice day?' - 20/1

Shoe-shine boy - 50/1.

Manager of Everton using the alias 'David Moyes' - 100/1


Rob Halligan
114 Posted 20/07/2016 at 17:43:24
Add bank manager to that list, Eugene.

Someone who doesn't like to part with money. Not even his money FFS.

Anthony Dwyer
116 Posted 20/07/2016 at 18:07:20
Im more a Wratherspoon Picture Drome man myself Eric.....
Told you I was a snob 😜
Steve Brown
117 Posted 20/07/2016 at 18:24:57
A new stadium is critical to the commercial rationale for Moshiri's bid - he won't make a significant return without it and remember he is a businessman. So damn right he means business and we will have a new stadium.

Also, he seems a man determined to make a splash as well so my money is on the docks. It will make the shite's new construction look like my old man's loft conversion.

Tony Abrahams
118 Posted 20/07/2016 at 18:37:54
I could definately tell the difference between a lad from Kenny, and one from Fairfield Anthony!

I used to like drinking at the top end, towards the Royal Hozzy, when I was a kid, but like a lot of places, there doesn't seem like there's anything left now.

I used to also walk through Kenny, on my way home from school sometimes, and the place used to have a real Scouse identity, but there's not much of that left now.

Things change, not always for the better, especially if you look at things like Lewis, who thinks we are all vain, and have a big inferiority complex, just because we want a stadium on the docks?

Anthony Dwyer
119 Posted 20/07/2016 at 19:08:32
Im more a weatherspoon Picture Drome man myself Eric.....
Told you I was a snob 😜
Anthony Dwyer
120 Posted 20/07/2016 at 19:14:18
Very true Tony, the whole of Kenny is run down now , especially in terms of pubs.

It used to be a good place to have a little bar crawl along, popping in and out of the locals, bumping into the locals who could range from the everyday scouser to out and out barn pots (all harmless).

Its desolated now though, the smoking ban was the start of the end in Kenny I think, that with the prices of supermarket ale.

Nothing left but chippys an takeaway pizza gaffs.

Tony Abrahams
121 Posted 20/07/2016 at 21:40:29
The same can be said of County Road, Anthony, where Everton FC is the only reason most of the pubs survive throughout the year.

Crocky, definitely deserves better (The Oyster, who have won the national cup 3 times in recent years, don't even have a proper changing facility) but I think we would both agree that the best thing for Everton would be Clarence Dock.

Lewis might be right in saying its a pipe-dream, but an iconic stadium on the docks is something I'm sure a lot of Toffees are dreaming about!

Rob Campbell
124 Posted 20/07/2016 at 23:40:23
Prefer the docks even if it needs more time.

Then we can really sing " ... on the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey".
Lukas Polster
125 Posted 20/07/2016 at 00:17:43
New stadiums now tend to be out of town with ample parking and good road/motorway access so most fans drive to the game. A riverside stadium close to the city would encourage more fans to use public transport into town and It'd be great to see the city centre full of Evertonians before and after the game.

It would give a great sense of Everton belonging to the city (and vice versa). Love to see hundreds of blues walking en masse to the stadium, I reckon it'd help create an atmosphere, much better than turning up in the car 10 mins before the match.
Lukas Polster
126 Posted 21/07/2016 at 00:47:49
Talking of atmosphere, although Goodison, like most English grounds now, can be a bit lacking in it, at least we know Lower Gwladys St is where to go for more vocal support. When (if) we move to our new stadium, there'll be no obvious "end" equivalent to the old Steet End, so where will all the singing come from?

I see Celtic have installed rail seating in one corner this season and the atmosphere in last week's freindly seemed even better than usual.
Eric Myles
127 Posted 21/07/2016 at 03:06:36
The Old Fort ,Tony (#118)? I used to meet me Dad in there when he'd sneak out of the new Royal for a pint.
Tony Abrahams
128 Posted 21/07/2016 at 08:10:58
I've heard some characters got in there Eric, especially the ones carrying intravenous drips!
Steve Jones
129 Posted 21/07/2016 at 12:43:55
So, to summarise what Anderson is saying, it's that we could be in Croccy inside of 2 years, but an alternate site would take longer? The only question left then is: Will Peel Holdinggs come to a land agreement with Moshiri?

Simple pass/fail test... If Yes, then simply we go in that direction... If No, we are looking at good access from the M57 as much as that will inspire any of us.

Maybe a good time for someone to start looking for commercial pressure points in Peel's projects that a local fanbase / consumer base could influence?

Ray Roche
130 Posted 21/07/2016 at 13:11:42
I can't see the reason for a debate, other than it's a VERY slow close season. The Docks would be a wonderful opportunity to raise awareness of our club, especially to the tourist trade.

I can't remember the exact figures but Liverpool is now one of the most popular tourist destinations in the UK and to have the chance to showcase our club in such a prestigious location will not happen again.

I shudder every time I see the Echo Arena and think of what might have been. What a location that was for us and the chance to have something similar was always the stuff of dreams... compare that to an unwanted plot near the M57.

Alan McGuffog
131 Posted 21/07/2016 at 13:40:59
A statement of intent really. If there is a chance of a dockside development, it has to be grasped. To relocate willingly to an out-of-town site in the middle of nowhere (sorry, Croccy guys... no insult intended, I was a Norris Green man originally) sends out the signal... "We are other team in Liverpool...." County to Forest for want of a better example.
Lewis Montgomery
132 Posted 21/07/2016 at 15:22:45
Eugene (#113) and others who I feel have misread my point:

What's an Army Batman? I'm guessing it's funny, but I've never heard the joke and I'd love to be able to reuse it myself.

My point in #104 was not that we should "know our place" and "be satisfied with our lot", as you took it. I was really saying that our reasons for wanting a new stadium by the river seem a bit superficial and misplaced.

We want to "send a message" that we're "back", and we want to rub the other lot's noses in it saying "look at our new stadium, it's by the river!!".

My point was that, if it's less cost-effective, then those reasons seem pretty silly to me. I know we're not spending my money, but I want our club to be run soundly and be as big a success as possible. We shouldn't let hearts rule heads every time – is really what I'm saying.

I'm an accountant by the way, but I'm also an Evertonian.

Steve Jones
133 Posted 21/07/2016 at 15:54:12
An army batman would be a lower ranks soldier assigned to a senior officer to act as his manservant. Clean boots, maintain uniform, tidy rooms, fetch and carry that sort of thing.

It has nothing to do with Gotham City....though, just for clarity, in an army context the fictional 'Alfred' would be the fictional Bruce Wayne's batman.

Danny O'Neill
134 Posted 21/07/2016 at 16:21:57
Lewis,

In 1985 we beat Bayern Munich. Now I know one cup game (tie in that case) doesn't define you as being better than another team but we were closer to the likes of them than we are now. But that doesn't mean we can't be again.

Clearly there are differing views as to why we missed the Premier League gravy train however in general a combination of the tragedy of Heysels and poor off-field management starting with Dr David Marsh (classic rest on your laurels mentality) has combined to put us where we are today. I always start there because whilst many point to the Johnson debacle and Bill's reign, for me, that is when the near irreversible rot set in and damage was done.

We have an opportunity; I know it's hard for a generation that has grown up having their hopes dashed, expectation effectively extinguished and belief shattered, whilst listening to romantics / lunatics (delete as appropriate) rant about us in the same breath as Manchester United and Bayern Munich.

The remarkable thing is, we are still, within reason, in touching distance of the pack. Why? Because we are are a footballing institution and have been able to absorb decades of mediocracy because of our history, heritage and wonderful fan base. Not many clubs could do that; similar in a way to Manchester United not winning a title for 25 years and suffering relegation in the interim (1968 - 1993).

We are big; we will always be big. Believe,because our time will come again.

Paul Burns
135 Posted 21/07/2016 at 20:40:52
We don't want a stadium in Croxteth, end of story. People from out of town will just have to get themselves sorted, it's easy to park anywhere and get a train into the city centre. It's a fifteen minute walk at most.

There's no rush to get it done, where did this two-year crap come from? The main thing is getting it right, both in scale and design.

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