Everton stadium at heart of city's Commonwealth Games bid

Friday 16 June 2017  128 Comments  [Jump to last]
Everton's proposed new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock would be the designated athletics venue in Liverpool's bid to host the 2022 Commonwealth Games.

The plan for the Blues' new home will be part of a presentation by the city's bid team and Mayor Joe Anderson this afternoon but the emphasis will be on the docks stadium being a football ground first and an athletics venue second, with no compromises made on key factors like atmosphere and intimacy.

Concern over how the stadium could be adapted for athletics without significantly affecting the design has been one of the key issues occupying the mind of architect Dan Meis and his California-based firm that has been given the task of imagining Everton's new ground.

However, both Meis and Mayor Anderson assured fans today that any proposed running track would be strictly temporary and would have no impact on the design of what will be a football stadium for generations to come.

"I know that everyone at the club ... is absolutely committed to replicating the intimacy, fan proximity and atmosphere of Goodison Park at our new home," Anderson wrote in an open letter to Everton fans.

"I share that commitment and we won't make the mistakes others have made. Our plan is to install a temporary track after the final home game of the 2021/22 season which will the be removed before the 2022/23 season starts in the autumn."

The bid will also include proposals for a floating swimming pool in one of the docks that would keep the city's waterfront at the heart of the Games and boxing events at Goodison Park.

Liverpool is rivalling Birmingham for the right to host the 2022 Games, the decision for which is expected by the end of the year.  


Reader Comments (128)

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Colin Glassar
1 Posted 16/06/2017 at 07:17:51
I just hope our stadium plans are not dependent on getting the Commonwealth Games.
Dermot Byrne
2 Posted 16/06/2017 at 07:19:28
Bloomin' heck. There are some positive stories coming out re the club. Made up with Ajax captian, the goalie seems good and us at centre of the Games bid would be such a shot in the arm. Happy day.
Mike Allison
3 Posted 16/06/2017 at 07:45:57
I don't want athletics anywhere near our stadium.
Steve Richards
4 Posted 16/06/2017 at 07:48:10
It will be interesting to see how Dan Meis plans to create an athletics venue inside a football stadium with the steep intimate stands he has always spoken about. He tweeted only yesterday about "seats as close and steep as possible". ps: I think it's the 2022 Games they're bidding for isn't it?
Steffen Derbyshire
5 Posted 16/06/2017 at 07:59:36
Please let this not be true. Show me one athletic stadium in the world that has a football atmosphere.

The distance between the nearest fan to the pitch should remain the same in the new stadium.

Ian Hollingworth
6 Posted 16/06/2017 at 08:03:17
Christ, have we learned nothing from West Ham?

Problem is, this is a good way to secure the funding and get it cheap for Everton FC.

Mark Schofield
7 Posted 16/06/2017 at 08:03:23
Looks like we'll get a chance to see plans for our new stadium this afternoon. I've still got mixed feelings about the athletics track. I hope the plans can rid fears of negative implications of having a track.

With the Athletics and swimming centre together surely that area of the waterfront and docks would benefit hugely and get even more development with a successful Commonwealth Games bid.

Definitely an exciting week for Everton!

Paul A Smith
8 Posted 16/06/2017 at 08:09:28
This certainly is a complicated project for sure now. I remember this being suggested by a few fans a while ago and them being told the usual "stop being negative".

Once it was announced we were in bed with council money, there was nothing more certain. Is this a spanner in the works? Are we tied into a Commonwealth Games bid because of certain contracts?

Obviously the stadium should still be built on schedule, I just hope the Commonwealth Games bid doesn't change the look or facility that a football stadium needs.

Maybe this was the only way to get the bid we need. Just don't make West Ham's mistake.

Andy Macrae
9 Posted 16/06/2017 at 08:16:31
Steffan, the only good example is the Etihad. They built two short stands and one of the long ones, rotated the athletics track and finished it off with a temporary (without roof) stand.

This seems the best way forward if they're going to have athletics there.

Liam Reilly
10 Posted 16/06/2017 at 08:29:46
Dan Meis seems an astute character and he's publicly committed to maintaining the atmosphere and steep-sided stands.

This makes perfect business sense for the club, to reduce debt and showcase the stadium. It's just another problem to solve.

Erik Dols
11 Posted 16/06/2017 at 08:34:56
Etihad is an acceptable example, I could live with something like that. It's not my favourite stadium but it feels like a proper football ground. West Ham is of course a terrible example.

I know how they did "it" at Etihad, after the Commonwealth Games the pitch was lowered to make room for a third tier, over the athletic tracks. What did they do at West Ham's ground except for removing some 30,000 seats?

Brian Williams
12 Posted 16/06/2017 at 08:46:49
If the Commonwealth Games bid for the city depends on Everton's ground, then I'd have expected "more" if not "some" financial contribution from the council.

The way it's been explained so far is that the council is merely acting as a guarantor for the loans; the club would seek to build the stadium – the money is actually going from the club to the council in the form of the ٤m a year or so payment to them from us.

Brian Williams
13 Posted 16/06/2017 at 08:48:18
Mark (#7). I'm not sure we'll see plans for the stadium to be honest, just outline plans for the bid.

That's the way I understand it anyway.

Makes sense now why there wasn't to be much happening (stadium wise) before the end of this year because that's when the winning bidder for the Commonwealth Games will be announced.

Brent Stephens
14 Posted 16/06/2017 at 08:58:00
Interesting article on stadiums of the future in the Grauniad today:

Stadiums of the future: a revolution for the fan experience in sport

Mike Cheshire
15 Posted 16/06/2017 at 09:08:24
The thing that we all need to remember when talking about stadiums that have hosted big athletics events, then become football grounds, is how they were designed.

The problem with London Stadium is that it was not designed to become a football-specific stadium after the Olympics. The Etihad was, and is a very good example in this context.

However, I would not want another Etihad as our new home, something more original and innovative is called for. If the architect design it with conversion in mind then it should be a problem and we can still get the fantastic stadium experience we want and need.

Will Mabon
16 Posted 16/06/2017 at 09:34:54
"...how the stadium could be adapted for athletics without significantly affecting the design has been one of the key issues occupying the mind of architect Dan Meis..."

Hmm.

Tony Abrahams
17 Posted 16/06/2017 at 09:47:36
I'm expecting something spectacular, so expect that "our partners" will have to foot the bill, for the refurbishment once the commonwealth games have finished? That's if Liverpool, earns the right to host the event in the first place.
Brian Williams
18 Posted 16/06/2017 at 09:49:56
Yeh, it's a little worrying isn't it Will?

Trying to stay positive though until there's no choice.

I bet there'll be a few on here that'll claim we've singed Pickford and Klaassen so quickly, on the same day, to offset this potentially bad news regarding the stadium! :-)

Simon Smith
19 Posted 16/06/2017 at 10:16:20
Could this be our very own Field of Dreams moment? "If you build it they will come!" Don't be put off by talk of it being the athletics venue either – stadiums have come a long way in a short time with retractable stands and moving pitches.

So long as this is all sorted at the design stage and NOT an after thought it shouldn't be a problem. Just think how much that lot across the park will be fuming when it gets built and we move in!

Gary Reeves
20 Posted 16/06/2017 at 10:23:29
Eric (#11),

I'm not sure that lowering the pitch to incorporate another tier would be a viable option. The river is only 15 m away!

Colin Malone
21 Posted 16/06/2017 at 10:36:24
How do you remove an athletics running track and put seats there? Any answers, I'm sure West Ham fans would be only too happy to know.
Thomas Lennon
22 Posted 16/06/2017 at 10:55:28
Glasgow temporarily raised the ground 2 m to allow Hampden football ground to accommodate athletics for the 2014 Commonwealth Games:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Hampden_Park_%28panorama%29%2C_Commonwealth_Games%2C_Glasgow_2014.jpg/962px-Hampden_Park_%28panorama%29%2C_Commonwealth_Games%2C_Glasgow_2014.jpg

Then removed it all:

http://www.hampdenpark.co.uk/assets/uploads/images/crossfades/home/Crossfade_HP1.jpg

Admittedly this old stadium looks to have slightly shallow banking compared with Goodison Park and more (curved) distance remains between touchline and first row of seats for football, but it can be done. Hampden was originally a multipurpose stadium which might influence its shape.

Shallower banking may well be now required for new stadiums. NB the technology may well help our new stadium accommodate multiple uses.

Phil Parker
23 Posted 16/06/2017 at 11:20:06
Went to Man City's ground last week to see a concert, had a ticket on the side of the stadium. Pitch is lower than the outside ground level, running track was obviously higher and taken out when the commonwealth games had finished there.

Not a problem, our club is in great hands. All please chill out, and in some cases, seriously cheer up. The future is so bright I need sunglasses. This is the best revamp of our club, on and off the pitch, since Sir John gave us a leg up. Enjoy.

Iain Johnston
24 Posted 16/06/2017 at 11:37:20
Meis produced the Saitama Arena in Tokyo which has multiple seating arrangements for a host of different sports.

Is it realistic to suggest they could produce plans for us on a larger scale offering the same versatility?

We already know that running tracks can be hidden under a lower tier of seating, you wouldn't even know it was there on matchdays.

Ray Barnes
25 Posted 16/06/2017 at 12:01:52
Jesus. Chill out. It's really very simple. The dock is a giant hole. The running track will be lower, built in the dock, then filled in later. Similar to the way it worked at City.
Frank Wade
26 Posted 16/06/2017 at 12:09:50
As Simon has pointed out above, and Phil and Iain, other modern stadiums have been designed to cater for Athletics and other sports without losing out completely on the intimate football atmosphere we all enjoy. Lyndon wrote a comprehensive piece on this topic when the stadium was first mooted, which showed retractable stands in operation.

We have one of the most accomplished designers in the World working on this. He has been briefed and is well aware of the spec to include as cosy an atmosphere as possible.

We have to adopt a sustainable model to future-proof this from an Everton viewpoint. The Moshiri money may not always be there a la Sir John Moores and the Sky billions may dry up also. Catering for large concerts and sporting events will the stadium help pay it's way.

My only concern is the capacity. It's hard enough to get seats for games at the moment for those of us not living near Liverpool and make just a few pilgrimages a year. We can no longer get a seat in the Park End and have to make do with restricted view in Bullens Road or Gwladys Street and not always 3 seats together. The new venue will easily attract another 10,000, so I would like to see a capability for expansion to 60,000.

Ray Roche
27 Posted 16/06/2017 at 12:17:55
There's a good piece on the Royal Blue Mersey site about including a running track and some good tweets from Dan Meis:

Everton stadium architect gives more design hints
Jimmy Salt
28 Posted 16/06/2017 at 12:46:47
A question springs to mind here:

What happens if the city does not win its bid for the games? How will that affect the stadium plans.

Jay Wood
29 Posted 16/06/2017 at 13:33:47
Brent @ 14. Thanks for the Gruaniad link. A good read, especially on the Spurs stadium. On-site micro-brewery (no Chang!). Longest bar in the country. Storage for private box owners to keep their vintage wines and cognac. All at 䀅 a seat, or 㿊k pa for 2 for private box owners.

Ray Barnes @ 25, Everton's proposed new stadium being tied up with the city's Commonwealth Games bid is far, far from your claimed "It's really very simple."

Why? Because the city is bidding for the Games. It is not the confirmed location for the future games in 2022.

How can the architect designing the stadium or the club itself properly move forward on such a 'maybe?'

Do we start building a stadium to briefly incorporate an athletics track for just 2 weeks in the summer of 2022, still 5 years away (assuming the city of Liverpool does win the bidding), or do we build a dedicated football stadium best suited to Everton's current and future requirements?

To try to plan and budget for the former of those two scenarios (a very hypothetical one as things currently stand) is, as I say, far, far from being "very simple."

Ray Barnes
31 Posted 16/06/2017 at 13:53:48
Great video here of how a retractable seating system, designed by Dan Meis works.

William Cartwright
32 Posted 16/06/2017 at 14:02:43
Simple approach Jay; Plan A and Plan B whilst merging the common elements. Architects apply that approach in response to a flexible design brief pretty much as a standard operating procedure. However that's not to say it won't be a challenge.

I like what I am hearing from Dan Meis. He has obviously built up quite a reputation and solid body of work in the relatively specialist field of stadium design and his sound-bites are music to the ears of the supporters. His recent commentary on the merits of a sliding roof tell me he has evaluated the design priorities and understood completely the importance and driving passion of the supporters.

Recommending to invest capital on strikers instead of a potential 'white elephant' (which would have probably merited additional design fee revenue) tells me we are in safe hands. COYB

Kieran Kinsella
33 Posted 16/06/2017 at 14:07:18
Dan Meis seems very concerned about the fans' opinions so I'm not worried about a West Ham fiasco.
Si Cooper
34 Posted 16/06/2017 at 14:07:29
Ray Barnes (#25), the running track is bigger than a football pitch which is why fans in poorly converted stadiums end up so far from the pitch.

That means the running track would necessarily be above the football pitch in your scenario, and that makes it a lot more complicated than having a hole you can simply fill in later.

Dave Abrahams
35 Posted 16/06/2017 at 14:12:56
Brent (#14) thanks for the link. I don't know what our new ground will look like but it will be a massive difference from when I first ran up the steps in the boys pen as a 7-year-old and marvelled at the sight of Goodison Park – not to mention getting piss all over my shoes in The Kop the previous week.
Brian Williams
36 Posted 16/06/2017 at 14:20:10
Jay (#30).

The bid announcement is due before the end of 2017. I think when OUR stadium was announced it was mentioned that there wouldn't likely be any moves before early 2018.

Wonder if this is to tie in with whether Liverpool get the Commonwealth Games or not.

Makes sense.

Nigel Munford
37 Posted 16/06/2017 at 14:23:44
Twitter quote from the man:
danmeis @Meisarch

Replying to @Deanoheron

It is possible to accommodate a temporary track for CWG, but we will NOT compromise proximity, intimacy or atmosphere for football.

Jay Wood
39 Posted 16/06/2017 at 14:33:02
William @ 32 and Brian @ 36.

The very fact one of you mentions the need to have a Plan A and Plan B to accommodate an either/or/and build, depending on whether the city wins the Games bid, whilst the other alludes to a possible delay in revealing Everton's stadium build dependent on that bid just re-affirms what I'm saying.

It adds a further workload to Dan Meis's remit, delays the start and finish date of the project, and potentially prejudices Everton to having a 'straight out of the box, fit for 21st century purpose football stadium for the next 50 years (or more)', just to accommodate a 2 week athletic meet five years down the line in 2022.

Far, far from simple as Ray Barnes claimed.

Jay Wood
40 Posted 16/06/2017 at 14:38:51
Reassuring to read Nigel's quote from Dan the Man after I posted.

The implication remains there willbe construction delays and an extra cost to include a running track. The further question is, does the track 'disappear' once the games (if held!) are completed, as with the Etihad and Hampden models, or will they be a permanent feature of the build and retained?

Again, either scenario involves extra cost and additional management.

Nigel Munford
41 Posted 16/06/2017 at 14:50:25
If the track can be hidden, doesn't that allow for the venue to be used (and charged for) for other uses and sporting activities in the future, would make good business sense surely?
Gerry Quinn
42 Posted 16/06/2017 at 15:13:35
Mike Gaynes
43 Posted 16/06/2017 at 15:29:56
Great find, Gerry.

The mayor's key point is that it would be a temporary track, to be installed after the end of one season and then removed before the start of the next. Nothing permanent. Zero impact on football.

Steavey Buckley
44 Posted 16/06/2017 at 15:43:51
A great stadium atmosphere is the equivalent of having an extra player on the field.
Ian Hollingworth
45 Posted 16/06/2017 at 15:45:30
So I suppose the key point is that the stadium pitch area has to be big enough to install a temporary running track.

Can a running track of 400 m with however many lanes be installed on the area between the first row of fans and the playing area?

How big an area does that need?

Jay Wood
46 Posted 16/06/2017 at 15:47:13
Hugely reassuring link (on the Official Club Site, no less!) from Gerry. Thanks!

So taking Joe Anderson at his word, Dan Meis is charged with designing (in Joe's own words):

"The Club's new stadium will be purpose-built as a football stadium for generations of Everton fans to enjoy, keeping the intimate atmosphere and close-to-the-pitch feel that our games are famous for."

There will be no fancy 'permanent' 'now you see it, now you don't' 'hidden' athletics track. Joe says:

"I share that commitment and we won't make the mistakes others have made. Our plan is to install a temporary track after the final home game of the 2021-22 season, which will then be removed before the 2022-23 season starts in the autumn.

"Just like it would be if the Club was hosting a concert or another sporting event, the infrastructure will be temporary with all the costs of installation and removal met by the Commonwealth Games."

From those words, we can (reasonably) conclude that:

● Construction is going to start soon to be ready for (at minimum...) Everton to be playing there for the 2021-22 season.

● The cost of installing and removing the running track and returning the stadium to a 'strictly football' arena will not fall to Everton.

I can live with that.

Brian Wilkinson
47 Posted 16/06/2017 at 15:53:48
The point Anderson makes about laying a running track after Everton's final home game sounds like we will be in our new ground before then, regardless if Liverpool get the games or not.
Nigel Munford
48 Posted 16/06/2017 at 16:00:03
Ian (#45),

I'd leave those sort of worries to the designers, eh?

Keith Conchie
49 Posted 16/06/2017 at 16:00:59
Ray (#31) – great link to how retractable seating works in a stadium. Looks so simple.

If Kenwright was in charge of the design, he would say we'll just ask the fans to put their seats in the store room after the game. Save a few quid.

Brian Williams
50 Posted 16/06/2017 at 16:11:03
Just been on the OS and read Joe's open letter.

I'm happy!

Kevin Jones
51 Posted 16/06/2017 at 16:15:41
Can't see a problem here, just put the racetrack round the outside and watch it on a big telly.

Just joking, the technology we have today is astounding, so installing a temporary running track would be easy peasy for the experts. Don't forget they used to be able to flood the floor of the Colosseum in Rome for mock ship battle, seat between 55 and 80,000, and had a retractable roof, (albeit a piece of tarp and a bloke with a rope), and that was built nearly 2,000 years ago. I read somewhere the Reddicus Shiteicus Still got dodgious peneltilicuses...

Pete Cross
52 Posted 16/06/2017 at 16:18:02
This is good news, thousands of overseas visitors, millions on TV – what a way to showcase our new stadium. The council might fund transport, tram, new rail station?

Another first for Everton? I can't think of another club having two stadiums hosting a world event!

Dermot Byrne
53 Posted 16/06/2017 at 16:21:59
Just love how the architect fully gets what we want. His reputation on line to deliver and he knows power of social media if he doesn't deliver.
Keith Conchie
54 Posted 16/06/2017 at 16:35:03
Just think, in a few years time there will be two great stadiums in this city.

'Ahem'... Goodison Park, and the new waterfront stadium

Jay Griffiths
55 Posted 16/06/2017 at 16:54:11
I hope the architect visits West Ham. Take note then do a complete 180 of what they have.

My son has been doing the games with me for years. He told me on the way out that its the worst stadium he's watched a game in.

We were in Row 2, this is their front row. It felt like being at a cricket match. The action is all the way over there in the middle. No relation to football whatsoever.

Believe me, Dan Meis should visit West Ham.

Michael Connelly
56 Posted 16/06/2017 at 17:56:30
Having to accommodate a track and field, by definition, will have a bearing on the design of the stadium, despite what is being said. How can it not 'permanently influence the stadium's design' (Joe Anderson), when a track and field has to fit into it?

It's a question of minimising the impact of accommodating it into the design.

Damian Wilde
58 Posted 16/06/2017 at 18:19:49
Just seen Granada Reports!! Joe Anderson talking about taking the running track out afterwards! I did say at the time this is WHY they were helping us.

I don't want my seat far from the pitch. I hope the bid fails.

Nigel Munford
59 Posted 16/06/2017 at 18:23:24
Damian, short-sighted, fella – it would be very good for Everton FC and the city, and the whole region to get the Commonwealth Games. Leave the design and planning to the experts and have a little trust in Dan, eh?
Brian Williams
60 Posted 16/06/2017 at 18:25:46
Not very magnanimous, Damien.

Those games could help a lot of less fortunate people greatly improve their lives!

Jay Wood
61 Posted 16/06/2017 at 18:26:40
Damian @ 58.

I suggest you read Joe Anderson's full statement on the official site before erroneously making the observations you do.

Link

Damian Wilde
62 Posted 16/06/2017 at 18:37:29
I did jump in; reading Dan's tweets, I feel a little better:

"It is possible to accommodate a temporary track for CWG, but we will NOT compromise proximity, intimacy or atmosphere for football."

"No worries, it can be done without affecting the intimacy or proximity. Please trust, we will protect."

They'll obviously do their best, but the plans will surely be adapted slightly? Surely they can't build it exactly how they would if there wasn't a track and just throw one in there for three weeks.

Oh well, wait and see. At least Dan seems to know the score.

Mike Berry
63 Posted 16/06/2017 at 18:47:19
Trust in The Dan, he will sort it.
Colin Malone
64 Posted 16/06/2017 at 19:24:04
Why not have a smaller track, on the pitch, say twice around for 400 meters and there and back for the 100 meters.
Gavin Johnson
65 Posted 16/06/2017 at 19:35:01
Man City managed it okay. It doesn't have to be like the London Stadium and an obvious athletics ground adapted for football.
Stu Smith
66 Posted 16/06/2017 at 19:39:05
Remember, folks, you heard it first from me!!!!
Ray Barnes
67 Posted 16/06/2017 at 20:28:05
It will obviously be the same model as Man City and Hampden. Lower pitch for football with a temporary track installed over it on a platform just for the games. No permanent running track.
Frank Eardley
68 Posted 16/06/2017 at 21:42:23
The problem is that, even with the retractable seating the upper tiers will be too far from the pitch. Goodison creates an atmosphere as all seating is close to the pitch – not just the lower tier.
Tony Dove
69 Posted 16/06/2017 at 22:32:09
Red Flag. Athletic tracks and proper football stadiums are a non-starter.

If, as I suspect, the project is not fundable without the Commonwealth Games, can we please go back asap to, eg, a second tier on the Park End and a new Bullens Road option?

Will Mabon
70 Posted 16/06/2017 at 23:23:05
"It will obviously be the same model as Man City and Hampden."

Neither of which are anything like as intimate as Goodison Park.

David Israel
71 Posted 16/06/2017 at 23:26:48
For some reason, I am hoping Birmingham gets the games. They can then try and set up an athletics track at Villa Park.
Paul Smith
72 Posted 16/06/2017 at 23:34:01
If its not as intimate as Goodison Park but holds 60,000 people, attracts wealthy sponsors, has unrestricted views, proper toilets and seats that fit your arse – oh, and a one-time only running track that benefits Liverpool and the surrounding area – I'm sold.
Laurie Hartley
73 Posted 16/06/2017 at 23:52:54
For anyone with concerns about this, a read of Dan Meis "tweets" is worthwhile.

Dan Meis Tweets

Having read them, I think the design and funding of our new stadium is in good hands. The big boys are in charge now.

Looks like "win-win" for Everton and the city to me.

David Israel
74 Posted 16/06/2017 at 23:54:58
Not long ago, I think I remember someone saying that the building of the stadium was not dependent on the Commonwealth Games being awarded to Liverpool. And it was either Joe Anderson or someone from the Everton camp, Elstone or even Moshiri, even though the latter doesn't do much talking.
David Israel
75 Posted 17/06/2017 at 00:02:24
Thank you, Laurie. That was a very interesting read.
Bob Parrington
76 Posted 17/06/2017 at 00:13:57
Didn't they state that the track would be only temporary? That is, rip it up after the Commonwealth Games??
Will Mabon
77 Posted 16/06/2017 at 00:28:10
Meis said:

"No worries, it can be done without affecting the intimacy or proximity."

He also mentioned:

"...that a big part of the Goodison-like environment would come from the fans themselves, and their level of engagement would determine the atmosphere."

That's not the same thing.

David Israel
78 Posted 17/06/2017 at 00:30:29
Mike Barry (#63), The Dan only wants to make Everton Great Again!
Robbie Shields
79 Posted 17/06/2017 at 02:54:51
Guys, I think we all need to chill a bit here. Moshiri has shown in the 12 months or so since he's been here that he means business. He has not put a foot wrong so far and been 100% true to his word. He's brought in the best professionals available: Koeman, Walsh, Meis etc, and transformed the club both on the pitch and off it. He's kept all the great things about the club going such as EitC, embraced it and is taking everything to the next level.

The only real question we should be asking is what to make the statue of Moshiri out of, Bronze or Gold!

He's put in place an incredible financial package that ensures we, Everton, the club itself, pays for the build completely over 40 years (yes, it's a mortgage) and then we own the Stadium out right, 100%, no ifs or buts, it's essentially ours from day 1, just like your own home.

He's engaged a world-renowned stadium architect and given him the clearest brief imaginable, build a modern Goodison Mark 2, replicate the proximity to the pitch, replicate the atmosphere and feel.

However, Everton need the council to come on board to provide all the necessary infrastructure, irrespective of a Commonwealth Games bid or not. The council's ability to fund this is restricted due to the current economic climate but they have already committed to upgrading the local transport infrastructure to support the new ground and make it viable.

A successful Commonwealth Games bid massively increases the pot of money available to the council for developing the infrastructure around the ground and the local area, it will propel the whole development forward at least 10 years, provide a massive cash and jobs injection into Liverpool and propel Everton and the City forward. If the Commonwealth Games bid fails, we just lose out on the additional infrastructure upgrades and 10 year fast-track of the area, the stadium still goes ahead as funded by Moshiri's ingenious plan.

The we get to Dan Meis, he has taken everything onboard and is completely engaged with the fans, seems to have taken Everton, Evertonians and Goodison to his heart and is sticking to the brief, intimate, intimidating, atmospheric and iconic.

A temporary athletics track, above existing seats in the lower stands is achievable without impacting the ground design at all, all it does is reduce the capacity for the games from the final stadium capacity, no big deal. Say 55,000 for Everton games and only 40,000 for the Commonwealth Games, 15,000 being under the track temporarily.

Either way, I'm confident the stadium of our dreams is coming, fully funded by Everton, but with a successful Commonwealth Games bid there is the extra bonus for the City and Everton ourselves, through better local infrastructure and facilities plus the increased exposure of Everton world wide.

It's right that we keep on topic and keep everyone accountable for what they are promising and have promised since Moshiri came on board, but so far they have been 100% true to their word, including Joe Anderson.

This is the most exciting time to be a Blue ever – let's enjoy it, back them to the hilt, hold them to account by all means and keep them honest, but lets enjoy the ride and support them. Moshiri is that man! COYB

Ant Sorvoja
80 Posted 17/06/2017 at 03:19:50
Hot off the press:

Here is the proposed Dan Meis blueprint for the new stadium:

Waterfront football stadium and running track.

Will Mabon
81 Posted 17/06/2017 at 05:28:52
Robbie (#79),

I agree with most of what you say, and things are moving in a positive direction for sure. There are huge issues and tiny ones and everything in-between.

Many are interested in the stadium design itself above wider matters of finance, partnerships, infrastructure, and on that particular point, you said:

"A temporary athletics track, above existing seats in the lower stands, is achievable without impacting the ground design at all, all it does is reduce the capacity for the games from the final stadium capacity, no big deal."

I haven't seen one stadium design from anywhere in the world that can or has incorporate(d) a 400 m international running track, that has terracing proximity and geometry remotely like at Goodison. It isn't feasible, if even possible.

A running track envisioned at Goodison Park as is would be completely out of sight under all four stands. This also puts the track straights some way below the upper Main Stand and moreso, Upper Bullens; so no second tier stands at that distance from the pitch.

The "High wall" effect is gone. People in higher seating positions will be further away from the pitch than before. A running track, whether permanent or temporary, essentially dictates a bowl design of stadium, too.

Short of a never-seen-before totally motorized structure running into several billions, of a complexity that would shame Thunderbirds, it isn't going to look like Goodison.

Meis is definitely the Real Deal and will produce the very best possible within the brief that he's given. If that finally does include a running track, expect a different looking "Goodison 2".

Will Mabon
82 Posted 17/06/2017 at 05:32:05
Ant - excellent!
Peter Thistle
83 Posted 17/06/2017 at 07:10:08
Please don't make our stadium like West Ham's new one. It absolutely kills the whole Everton vibe of being close to the action and the fans going mad and making a shed load of noise to intimidate opponents. Gawd, I hope Liverpool don't win the bid and kill our new stadium.
Mike Connolly
84 Posted 17/06/2017 at 07:27:30
I was looking forward to the new ground, until the running track was mentioned. There will be a big fight to get season tickets for the first tier stands. The second and third tier stands are going to be at least 8 lanes running track distance from the pitch.

I'd put up with the obstructions at Goodison – at least you can see the players without binoculars. Just hope we don't get the Commonwealth Games. Sorry for being negative – why can't we have a ground that we have always wished for? Steep sides and close to the pitch.

Nigel Munford
85 Posted 17/06/2017 at 07:35:06
To put a few things into perspective here:

The London Stadium was constructed to serve as the home stadium for the 2012 Summer Olympics and Paralympics, hosting the track and field events and opening and closing ceremonies. So, the requirements here were that the stadium, first and foremost would be designed as a stadium for hosting track and field events.

It was subsequently renovated as a multi-purpose stadium, with its primary tenants being West Ham United Football Club and British Athletics. So, West Ham's fault for not getting in early in the design stage to invest and consult in the design.

Now to our new stadium, this has certain specific requirements, first and foremost to be a football stadium, and Dan will understand the brief for the intimacy and atmosphere required by the fans. It's then his team's job to design a stadium that meets these requirements.

Confidence should be high within the fan base that he will get this right, and this is certainly supported by his tweets in Laurie's link, thanks for those Laurie. So let's chill a bit and let the people that are being paid to get this right do their stuff.

Tony Abrahams
86 Posted 17/06/2017 at 08:24:32
I see it exactly the same way as Robbie Shields, except that the most exciting time for being a blue in my life was definitely during the mid-eighties, let's hope next time we don't suffer a European ban!

Will, Goodison is not that steep, especially when you look at some of the grounds built in Germany to host the 2006 World Cup. I'm imagining really steep seating, like the ground in Cologne, and just hope these engineers are good at their job!

Joe Anderson has said that what they have in mind will add more atmosphere to the athletics, so it sounds to me like they are going to raise the track off the ground and bring it towards the crowds up above. Or is that just my imagination running away with me? (Sing it!)

Brent Stephens
87 Posted 17/06/2017 at 08:25:45
We've seen images of the stadium in Singapore (Ray Barnes, #31) in which several rows of seats are dropped down on jacks to allow for a running track. Said seats then jacked up again for the football.

I have no fears here. I'm not desperate, Dan. I trust in you.

Martin Nicholls
89 Posted 17/06/2017 at 08:42:45
I don't think we've got that kind of money, Brent. Have just read it cost $1.33 billion back in 2010 – with inflation and the difficulties of the Bramley-Moore site I'd think the cost of something similar here would be prohibitive.

Then again, neither I nor I suspect anyone else on here has ever designed/built a sports stadium! We have no choice other than to leave Dan Meis to do the best he can with the brief he has been given.

Ray Roche
90 Posted 17/06/2017 at 09:08:17
Brent, if Desperate Dan's involved in the Stadium at least the pies will improve...
Martin Nicholls
91 Posted 17/06/2017 at 09:10:11
Like the stadium, those pies are also multi-purpose, Ray – the horns double as toothpicks!
Ray Roche
92 Posted 17/06/2017 at 09:15:18
Martin, It's a win-win then isn't it? What about the hooves?

Colin Malone (#63) – "there and back for the 100 metres." Priceless.

Tony Abrahams
93 Posted 17/06/2017 at 09:16:11
I agree with Robbie Shields and just think it will move Liverpool as a city on very quickly. (The plans for the rail link alone are just brilliant.)

You're right to be cautious, Will, but after reading those tweets I try and read in-between the lines. Dan talks about very steep terracing to accommodate the seats and it takes me back to the wonderful time I had with my mates and Kids in the stadium of Cologne during the 2006 World Cup.

Joe Anderson is talking about increased atmosphere for the athletics so I can only imagine a raised track, to bring it towards the crowd? My only concern is people getting wet in the corners (but also think the architect might be a sarcastic yank?) Although this would help fit in a raised track, and doesn't quite fit with the design in my head!!

Reading the tweets, the one about an historic football club fills me with the most confidence and, whilst I don't think we need a roof, I do think we need something to keep the noise in, because when I think back to Rotterdam, it was just a night full of noise but, when I watched it again on the telly, it didn't really sound like that at all?

Paul Smith
94 Posted 17/06/2017 at 10:17:14
Contrary to my earlier post, full of positivity, I wonder why we weren't asked our thoughts on the recent stadium survey about a temporary running track?

Nigel Munford
95 Posted 17/06/2017 at 12:34:54
Paul, just stick with the positivity, it's what we all need and it'll be fine.

There seems to be an in-built desire for some on TW to be negative, so these last few days have been a bit abnormal, as all of the positive news seems difficult to comprehend.

As Brent sort of said, "Is there a problem?" I think even if there isn't a problem, some on TW will try and find one.

Jay Wood
96 Posted 17/06/2017 at 12:38:05
I think this thread is evidence of a good many people posting without first properly reading what was put in the public domain yesterday, namely, Mayor Joe Anderson's Open letter to Evertonians on the official club site.

Here again is the link to that letter:

Link

Before this was made public I also expressed my concerns (in this very thread) at the need of building a new football stadium with the idea in mind of having to incorporate a running track for a 'possibke' 2 weeks athletics event 5 years down the road.

The designer Dan Meis's recent tweets on the subject and Joe Anderson's letter greatly allayed my concerns.

Joe was very explicit in his letter.

"The Club's new stadium will be purpose-built as a football stadium for generations of Everton fans to enjoy, keeping the intimate atmosphere and close-to-the-pitch feel that our games are famous for."

There will be no fancy 'permanent' 'now you see it, now you don't' 'hidden' athletics track. Joe says:

"I share that commitment and we won't make the mistakes others have made. Our plan is to install a temporary track after the final home game of the 2021-22 season, which will then be removed before the 2022-23 season starts in the autumn.

"Just like it would be if the Club was hosting a concert or another sporting event, the infrastructure will be temporary with all the costs of installation and removal met by the Commonwealth Games."

From those words, we can (reasonably) conclude that:

● Construction is going to start soon to be ready for (at minimum...) Everton to be playing there for the 2021-22 season.

● The build will not incorporate a running track, nor distance seating and supporters from the action.

● Should the city of Liverpool win the bid, the stadium will be the jewel in the crown of the Commonwealth Games and a temporary athletics arena will be installed in the summer of 2022, during football's closed season.

● The cost of installing and removing the running track and returning the stadium to a 'strictly football' arena will not fall to Everton.

People continuing to express their concerns about a West Ham-like scenario really need to read up on what was made public yesterday before shooting from the hip.

Laurie Hartley
97 Posted 17/06/2017 at 12:53:48
Good post Jay.

I am sure Dan Meis has figured out how to do it but I will be fascinated to see how he fits a 175-metre long running track into the football stadium footprint.

Maybe we are going to get our stadium in two stages? River end and two sides first then Vauxhall Road stand built during the close season. It has been done before.

All rather intriguing.

Mike Connolly
98 Posted 17/06/2017 at 12:57:09
I'm a "glass half-empty" guy due to being a Blue. It's built into us with all the disappointments we have had. Hope you "glass half-full" types are right. I'd happily top my glass up. Cheers!
Steavey Buckley
99 Posted 17/06/2017 at 13:05:17
If the proposed stadium is not a rectangular shape, fans will not be as close to the pitch as they are at Goodison at present to give that special atmosphere the Everton players enjoy to help beat their opponents.
Nigel Munford
100 Posted 17/06/2017 at 13:18:30
Jay, excellent post but I think we still have a way to go to allay these negative fears of some on here.

I can see a "new dawn" for Everton FC but I guess it will take a lot longer to convince some.

Mike Berry
101 Posted 17/06/2017 at 13:51:59
Liam (#10),

Spot on, and as you say, a great showcase for the stadium. It puts the club out there to the watching world, superb PR in my opinion.

Peter Fearon
102 Posted 17/06/2017 at 14:18:46
A Commonwealth Games running track has to be at least 175 yards long to accommodate the rules on the curvature of the track. The track itself is 12 yards wide and there has to be adequate space on either side. There is no way to place that in a soccer stadium with a 120 yard long field without creating significant space between the crowd and the action.

These ideas about disappearing seating and so on are all very well but they will add millions to the cost of the stadium and involve onerous maintenance issues. It reminds me of the removable field that was going to roll out into the car park at Kings Dock to get some sun. Please!

Hopefully the Games will go to Birmingham. We need a football stadium that other teams will fear to go. Build it!!

Geoff Williams
103 Posted 17/06/2017 at 14:46:38
If the Commonwealth Games are allocated to Liverpool, then the ground will obviously be the focal point of the event. The area around the ground will therefore be redeveloped and transport links put in place.

Rather than have a stadium in the middle of a derelict and run-down area, we will have an iconic stadium on the banks of the Mersey, surrounded by shops, cafés etc. It has to be good for the club and the city.

Nigel Munford
104 Posted 17/06/2017 at 14:51:12
Agree, Geoff, it can only be god for the club and the city. I think people are getting hung up on a temporary running track, and it's blinding their view of what the stadium and the Commonwealth Games will provide the scope for.
Alexander Murphy
105 Posted 17/06/2017 at 14:59:07
From the moment that the Commonwealth Games bid and our ground playing such a major part in the bid, I've had an uneasy feeling.

The dimensions of the actual eight lane running track aren't the end of the story. There are long-jump and triple-jump pits to add to the width. There is the steeplechase fence. Pole vault area. So, beyond the required running track, there is a heck of a lot more.

A rectangular football ground with steep stands bang up alongside the pitch creating a wall of noise just doesn't seem possible to me.

The reassurances of Mayor Joe and Dan Meis are helping me somewhat. When I get to see the cgi of the new ground, then I know that my reaction will be like a last-minute derby winner, I'm just praying the winner is Everton.

Alan J Thompson
106 Posted 17/06/2017 at 16:03:41
Thinking outside the square or changing the shape of it, why don't we build our ground as we want at Bramley-Moore and then they can convert Goodison for the athletics stadium? Then, after the Games, look around for a local team to take over that stadium.

After all, I'm fairly sure there is a local team who are used to using our old grounds, name escapes me at the moment, and it could rejuvenate another area of the City at the same time.

Craig Harrison
107 Posted 17/06/2017 at 16:10:00
I'm no architect so have no idea if this would work but what happens if you build the stands behind each goal similar to the current Gwladys Street with a shallower lower level that can be converted to athletics, and a much steeper and larger upper level that slightly overhangs the lower level. Seems that would give you enough room for a track.
Dennis Stevens
108 Posted 17/06/2017 at 16:15:56
I'd have thought that it would be possible to build one side & the two ends of our new stadium & use that as one end of the athletics stadium. In this way, the length of our pitch would be the width of the athletics stadium.

The rest of the athletics stadium would be a temporary structure, to be removed after the event. A permanent second side to the stadium could subsequently be built. We could even have a temporary second side to the ground in the short term, prior to the Commonwealth Games.

Si Cooper
109 Posted 17/06/2017 at 16:49:55
Dennis, your idea may be feasible but it is nothing like what Joe Anderson has described and he is supposedly closely involved.

Would anyone want our city to host a shambolic / laughable Commonwealth Games? If not, then the athletics facilities would have to be first class to support the efforts of world-leading athletes. I'm not an expert on athletics tracks but I'd be a little surprised if one could easily be constructed on a simple raised platform.

Mike Connolly
110 Posted 17/06/2017 at 18:56:11
Geoff (#103),

Good for the city Cafes, Shops, transport links. yeah great. But what about the fans that want to watch Everton with a decent view. After all that's what we Everton fans were suppose to be getting. A Footie Stadium.

A few months ago we were laughing at the loft conversion at the shite. Saying how far away their stand was from the pitch. However, we'll have four sides far away from the pitch.

Come on... we need a football stadium – not an athletics stadium. I just knew, after a good week being a Blue, a spanner would be thrown into the works.

Brian Williams
111 Posted 17/06/2017 at 19:00:30
It's only a spanner if you choose to ignore the reassurances and look on the down side.
Eric Myles
112 Posted 17/06/2017 at 20:01:12
Jay (#40). Why would there be construction delays if it was planned for from the beginning?

And any extra cost should be recompensed by the council / Commonwealth Games funding.

Eric Myles
113 Posted 17/06/2017 at 20:16:32
Thumbs up, Colin (#64)!!

Depends on the capacity of the footy ground and the required capacity of the athletics stadium but the track and field can be raised above the field level.

So where will the rugby and hockey be played? Could be a good use for Goodison Park before being put out to pasture?

Ian Riley
114 Posted 17/06/2017 at 22:05:41
How are we going to get a new stadium?

Sacrifices will have to be made in the short term. West Ham United and Manchester City did it this way. Great opportunity if the club are going to go forward in a fantastic location.

Pete Cross
115 Posted 18/06/2017 at 08:36:29
Eric (#113) – Goodison to be used for the boxing.
Eric Myles
116 Posted 18/06/2017 at 09:53:08
I just saw that, Pete. Hope it doesn't rain!!
Morgan Edwards
117 Posted 18/06/2017 at 10:43:17
Colin Malone (#64),

"There and back for 100 metres" made me laugh out loud!!!

Will Mabon
118 Posted 18/06/2017 at 20:17:55
"...it can only be good for the club and the city. I think people are getting hung up on a temporary running track, and it's blinding their view of what the stadium and the Commonwealth Games will provide the scope for."

No, I think people are specifically concerned about, and are addressing, how the stadium itself will look finally. Since a stadium that can or temporarily does contain a 400-m running track will not look like Goodison Park. "Scope" provided by the Commonwealth Games is nothing to do with that.

Mike Connolly
119 Posted 18/06/2017 at 20:32:31
I think we need someone with a good engineering background to come on and see if they can erase our fears about having a running track in the stadium.
Brian Williams
120 Posted 18/06/2017 at 20:58:49
I think Dan Meis has already done that.
Nigel Munford
121 Posted 18/06/2017 at 22:54:25
Not sure how many engineers, designers etc etc TW'rs would need, Brian, to help them get over this fear of a running track.

Numerous posters on here have posted details of Dan's tweets to attempt to pacify to no avail, but to me they say that Evertonians need not worry as he has everything under control.

Brian Williams
122 Posted 18/06/2017 at 23:22:43
I agree, mate, but some will always be negative, no matter what.
Ray Barnes
123 Posted 18/06/2017 at 23:37:48
Article here about how they built the temporary track at Hampden. Doesn't impact on the design of the stadium at all really. Lose some lower seating for the games but that is reinstated afterwards.

Raising the floor for the Commonwealth Games

Si Cooper
124 Posted 18/06/2017 at 00:04:02
Ray, that article says that they started the work to install the athletics track at the end of 2013. Does it say how long it took to return it to its original state?

Joe Anderson is talking about doing something similar between the end of one football season and the start of the next. I don't doubt that these things can be done in theory, but if someone gets their sums wrong, our club and the city could end up associated with an almighty cock-up.

Will Mabon
125 Posted 19/06/2017 at 05:18:35
Please delete, Lyndon.
Alexander Murphy
126 Posted 19/06/2017 at 05:32:34
Goodison Park established 1892 as the worlds very first purpose built football ground. That's exactly what I want for us to have ready to move in to when we depart "The Grand Old Lady".

I do not want a disused athletics track.

I do not want a bowl type stadium with shallow terraces.

I would really love a tip top modern replica of Goodison Park. No obstructed views.

After all we intend to live and worship at our new home for at least another 125 years. Being shoehorned into some hybrid compromise for the sake of a one off event is, to my thinking, putting Everton fans and players interests far behind those of tourists who will not be season ticket holders even five years later.

I just want the best and only the best.

Will Mabon
127 Posted 19/06/2017 at 05:35:04
Alex, I agree wholeheartedly.
Neil Carter
128 Posted 19/06/2017 at 11:00:26
We attended the Commonwealth Games at the converted Hampden Park. The atmosphere was fantastic with the temporary athletics track installed and everyone knows about the "Hampden Roar".

I'm sure they'll be able to reproduce a similar atmosphere at the new stadium. Using it for the centrepiece for the Commonwealth Games bid can only enhance the reputation of the city and the club. Bring it on!!

Brian Wilkinson
129 Posted 19/06/2017 at 12:35:04
Will we be taking Lucky Blue Dragon Chippy to the Albert dock? A bright future but won't half miss that chippy, good times and bad, you always found salvation there, with a rolled-up copy of When Skies Are Grey to follow.
Craig Harrison
130 Posted 19/06/2017 at 14:33:51
From what's being reported, it sounds like all the field events will be held around the city (Pier Head etc) so no need to raise the field level – just install a track.

Also some talk about a 10,000-seat arena being built at Goodison; I wonder if this will be permanent and or a velodrome?

Kev Wood
131 Posted 19/06/2017 at 15:18:01
I'm with Brian re Lucky's Blue Dragon. We've all got our pre-match haunts and there will be much that we leave behind on the day that we move.
Eric Myles
132 Posted 20/06/2017 at 18:51:02
Ray (#129). That article says it took 9 months to install that track. We don't have that sort of time.

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