Coming on the heels of the 2-0 defeat at Chelsea and the 3-0 reverse against Tottenham last Saturday, the Blues went down to a 3-0 defeat to the Italian side, conceding three goals by half time and mustering just three shots on target.
It's a far cry from what was expected following massive expenditure on new players over the summer and has Koeman questioning why his team can't match the aggression, spirit and composure on the ball of the opposition.
"[Atalanta] showed more aggression, they showed more passion," Koeman told BT Sport. "And that is really painful, because in my opinion it starts with that and then you need quality on the ball.
"I asked myself what I am doing wrong, about the second half against Tottenham and the first half here. It is not the way I like to see my team. The commitment and the passion, what they showed in the first half was much bigger than what we showed.
"But once again it is not the time and the place to criticise the players. I need to criticise myself because the team was not prepared and that is a question for myself.
"The whole Atalanta team was much better prepared than us. Once again that is the manager.
"We knew from the beginning of July that the start of the season was really tough. We need to accept it. That is not the problem. The problem is what we showed in the first half."
Quotes sourced from FourFourTwo
Reader Comments (209)
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1 Posted 14/09/2017 at 22:48:50
Admitting they were not ready for the game says it all.
All the fans who travelled where ready to support; all us watching were ready.
Maybe he has had enough and just wants to be put out of his misery!
2 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:00:23
3 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:00:54
4 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:01:02
5 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:15:04
Or do you have to pay extra for that sort of thing?
6 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:16:49
The problem is the talking needs to stop and we need to see results on the pitch. Losing 3-0 but giving it a good go is a lot easier to take. There has been no positives from the last 3 games, and each defeat is worse than the one that went before.
7 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:18:13
I hoped that Koeman would be more expansive than Moyes but set up teams to defend properly unlike Martinez. So far, we seem to be stuck in second gear not doing the job at either of the pitch convincingly. However, it is still possible, like last season, that we will turn things around and go on a decent run after Man Utd.
If we don't get any momentum at all, however, then we should say goodbye to a manager who clearly has no emotional commitment to the club.
I do hope finally that the fans stay off the backs of Klaassen and Sandro. I think both of them are good players if given time, positive encouragement and a better understanding of the Premier League.
I do also wonder why Rooney is on the team sheet for almost every match? Surely that won't do him or us any good. I'd like to see him chomping at the bit to come on and score after 70 minutes sometimes.
8 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:19:12
9 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:21:47
10 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:22:45
11 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:26:47
There seems to be a complete lack of formulated attacking threat. No ideas or planned method of attack that is able to be put into action on the pitch.
If we're not scoring goals we are going to lose and draw more often than not. And sneak a few 1-0s against poor sides.
12 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:26:48
13 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:44:45
14 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:57:21
How can any strikers even attempt to try to score when the service isn't there?
Bedtime for me now; I hope Koeman has a very restless night.
15 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:14:03
Yet only one or two of the players who featured in those sides seems to get a look in, in our first team.
Maybe you should grow a pair Ronny and try giving some of the kids a chance, you've not got a lot left to lose, big man!
16 Posted 14/09/2017 at 00:16:26
I don't think you really replace a player like Lukaku. Sandro was purchased but hasn't really settled yet; Calvert-Lewin looks promising but is still young. Rooney is past it.
Costa would've been a game-changer: strong, aggressive. That's the issue.
Koeman won't be sacked, even if we lose to Man Utd.
The decision not to buy a striker was criminal.
17 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:16:53
We have a more comfortable run off fixtures after Man Utd. If we struggle in all of them, then maybe my mind will be changed but, until then, I'm behind Koeman.
18 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:18:33
19 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:36:41
There is no system. There is no game plan. The players are individually good, but there is no team. This is relegation form.
Has Koeman lost the dressing room?
20 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:41:44
It is negligent to start the season without two or three established strikers. We have started the season without one!!!! I literally cannot understand this decision whatsoever. Who on earth within Everton takes the fall for this ridiculous situation?
Meanwhile Koeman has wasted the Stones money. Has spent the Lukaku money and has also spent the additional £50M war chest
And somehow we're still without a striker!!!! It beggars belief
21 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:44:33
Lack of a system is another.
22 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:45:03
Pack your bags, man, your Uber is waiting.
23 Posted 15/09/2017 at 01:28:00
24 Posted 15/09/2017 at 02:00:46
I think I read after Spurs he said we were surprised by their midfield setup and their physicality?
This is the Premier League FFS. They are elite athletes. Of course they can tough it up and its his job to respond to tactical deficiencies in real time, during the game.
Bring back Joe Royle, five across the back!
25 Posted 15/09/2017 at 02:33:59
The first step is admitting you have a problem. You've bought yourself a few more games in my book, Ronnie. Now get your shit together.
26 Posted 15/09/2017 at 03:44:08
27 Posted 15/09/2017 at 03:58:01
We plumbed new depths last night. We are not the first club to waste money signing a load of players who have difficulty blending into a team but at present the manager looks clueless and certainly not up tto he job.
Whichever eleven he puts out from our supposedly strong squad looks unbalanced owing partly to the whole squad being unbalanced and partly to his own bone-headed reluctance to play at least one wide player.
For those who think we might start winning when we come up against lesser teams, I would seriously question our ability to beat anyone at the moment without a major transformation of team selection, tactics and attitudes.
28 Posted 15/09/2017 at 04:00:04
Sadly, Anthony #17, Koeman has been in charge for 15 months and can be fairly said to have built the team. If the team is dysfunctional then there is but one source.
For Koeman to be "surprised" by Spurs and then to say ""I need to criticise myself because the team was not prepared" following the dismal no- show against Atalanta is appalling.
We began last season very poorly prepared. Ronnie had as much time as every Premier League manager to get things ready. Yet his priority was a second holiday in a matter of a couple of weeks. Clearly it had not dawned upon him that he was in the job because things were far less than acceptable, not because Martinez had done a peerless job and was off to bask in glory.
We go into each successive match Ill prepared, with the air of an amateur dramatic society improvisation session hoping "it'll be alright on the night". (Next production ? "Les Miserables").
Koeman has been bloody blunt in public about a number of his players to date. It's now long overdue for him to apply the same critical eye to himself and his performance record.
Giving players who aren't performing a bollocking is one tactic. Just how effective is that when it's your only tactic ? "Losing the dressing room" is one thing, alienating your OWN squad is something else.
I want Koeman to be a bloody successful manager for Everton, at present I'm finding that concept very, very difficult to get my head around.
Our performance this coming Sunday will have much bearing on the matter. Should we get decimated and fail to offer any resistance then the job may be beyond rescue.
Do I want "a taxi for Koeman"? I'm mightily tempted to flag one down.
29 Posted 15/09/2017 at 04:30:08
30 Posted 15/09/2017 at 04:53:43
Sticking 2 fingers at the media at the same time who are simply loving the drivel that Koeman is delivering every week. I say Koeman because we have one of the strongest squads in the league, and possibly in our history:
Pickford, Stekelenburg, Robles,
In Defence :-
Kenny, Connolly, Robinson, Martina, Keane, Jagielka, Baines, Holgate, Funes Mori, Williams, Browning, Coleman
In Midfield (including the mythical 'No. 10':-
Sigurdsson, Vlasic, Schneiderlin, Walsh, Davis, Gueye, Besic, McCarthy, Dowell, Barkley, Rooney . . .
In Attack :-
Bolasie, Lookman, Calvert-Lewin, Sandro, Lennon, Niasse,
The squad is undermined by injuries (shit happens - that's why we have a squad). It is also undermined by self inflicted absentees; Connolly, Browning, Dowell, etc.
It is also undermined by what most on here, including me, see as highly questionable man and game management the essential ingredients of the team manager.
I am not a religious man, but in my prayers,I am hoping for a proper manager to take charge before it is too late, and I have lost all hope of ever watching Everton walking out at Old Trafford or Anfield and leaving a trail of brown stuff from the changing rooms to the pitch.
31 Posted 15/09/2017 at 05:22:15
If we keep this up the same can happen again, Atalanta are a very poor team in the Italian League. They needed us to help them recover from a bad start to their own campaign. We are the only English team to lose this week. This is beyond embarrassing.
33 Posted 15/09/2017 at 05:43:19
Ron, you where a great player but sorry, your tactical nouse is non-existent.
I will be surprised if he is around by Xmas
34 Posted 15/09/2017 at 06:18:54
Absolutely shocking performances this week. We have been poor all season and were never great last year.
35 Posted 15/09/2017 at 06:39:50
Give them the chance to prove that they are good enough
36 Posted 15/09/2017 at 06:54:55
I watched last night as I'm sure most of you did. And yes, the one positive was no goals conceded in the 2nd half!
37 Posted 15/09/2017 at 06:55:31
Saying that, we've fallen desperately short against everyone bar Stoke this season and that's bad management.
I think everyone needs to wait and see how the next 5-6 games pan out before calling for his head. No-one has had fixtures as bad as ours.
38 Posted 15/09/2017 at 06:57:37
Perhaps he should have been back at Finch Farm doing some research on Tottenham and Atalanta. Or maybe just maybe finding us a striker, anyone at all. But no, down tools and first sign of an international break and he's jetting it off. He doesn't give a shit about the club and needs to be sacked, today.
By the way, barring one block last night, how shite has Michael Keane been in the last 3 games? Harry Maguire would have been a far better signing.
39 Posted 15/09/2017 at 06:59:31
Sick to the stomach thinking about a season fighting to get out of the bottom 3 or 4. A pasting on Sunday should be curtains for Ronald Koeman. Something needs to give.
40 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:00:08
The other thing I cannot fathom is why the hell keep changing the team so much. You bought players for certain positions (I hope) so play those players in those positions.
Add to that where is the stadium?
How the hell does so much optimism turn to shit so quickly?
41 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:03:40
Totally unforgivable in my opinion. See their number 10 Gomez have so much time on the ball for the whole game and practically has his hands on his hips whilst in possession was sickening.
42 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:04:29
43 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:16:39
Does anyone harbour any serious thoughts of challenging for Champions League place?? One the major problems appears to be an incredible absence of passion and belief, which may be a reflection of Koeman's monotone style.
I personally have had enough of continental managers with a vision for football that transcends our cognitive abilities and elevates them to a position were they are infallible and when results and performances are inexplicably shocking that is because of deeper, more complex issues than the seemingly fucking obvious failings that trouble our tiny little minds.
Well fuck that. If this continues get shut but rather than looking for another continental genius let's give Unsworth a go and give the kids a chance, look at assessing the talent that is here already and go forward from there.
One thing would be for sure, the players would be motivated, organised and I would hope more committed to a manager who cares.
45 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:27:20
Unsie and Big Joe could take over until the summer and depending on how they perform we could either appoint them on a permanent basis or get Ancellotti in.
I'm really disappointed in Koeman. I thought he was a top manager but the guy looks even more lost than Roberto in his final days.
46 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:27:38
I honestly didn't think I'd see another shambolic performance to rival the Spurs game, but little did I expect (or maybe I should have totally expected it) that would be all we could muster.
The first thing Joe Royle did when he walked through the door was he made certain that his team was 110% motivated every time it set foot on the pitch. David Moyes did something similar, he stumbled upon a formation that made us hard to beat and at least it worked.
Martinez dared us to dream in that first season and at least had the guts to introduce a new fearless mentality and tried playing the best sides in the league toe to toe, doing a double over Manchester United, and securing a record points haul.
But the 16 months that Koeman has been here, let's be honest, it's been pretty dour stuff and I'm convinced to this day the only reason we were strong at home killing teams off was down to Lukaku's goals, four against Bournemouth, a example.
Koeman has seriously disappointed me, he puts a team out that just lacks anything, no cohesion, no pattern, no presence and absolutely zero pace, no backbone, we are spineless.
The form at the end of last season was dismal, remember how bad the Anfield derby was or the dour draw at West Ham (no shots on target again!)
We were thrashed by 10-man Arsenal, lost at Swansea its just a continuation from April and May.
He ballsed up in summer, no striker to replace our 25 goals talisman not even a half decent short term replacement until January (please don't give me Sandro).
He allowed a pacy creative winger to go in Gerard Deulofeu, without having a clue who was going to play on the wing. "Oh sod it," says Ronny "I'll just put a central midfielder there"!!
No matter how much we go on about Dominic Calvert-Lewin "going to be some player" I'm afraid that is not going to be for a few season's, he works hard but rarely looks like scoring.
Rooney still looks like he has the brain but the legs don't allow it anymore.
Schneiderlin and Klaassen a combined £48 million??? What a waste on money, could have been used much much better!
All-in-all, it looks very very bleak and I think Koeman is digging himself a hole he's going to struggle to get out of. Once you start to lose the fans' support and faith in you, it usually only ends in one way.
47 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:29:24
Even Hughes said it openly Arsenal have plenty of weaknesses before the game and then he beats them, same against Man Utd, he said they have certain loose areas, and he exploited them. But our manager is still clueless about tactics, passion and aggression. At least teams have pity on us after taking 3-0 leads.
Man Utd are not that strong as they are made out to be. Even Basel and Leicester were having free runs behind their defence and in attack, everything is going through Mkhitaryan. If Gana can mark out Mkhitaryan, we can easily get at least a point, depending on if Koeman has learnt his lessons. We need Niasse, Lookman and Vlasic or Mirallas here to exploit their defense.
48 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:32:40
49 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:33:17
We've no organization, flair, effort or determination. Management are poor. I know things can improve in any situation but this lot are dreadful players as well. I didn't know why we got Walsh anyway too many cooks! I could have done better
Play Unsworth's boys he's a true Evertonian, and fuck these others off ASAP. You don't like spending money Bill so lets start saving some!!!
50 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:35:42
He will never come back from this.
May apply myself
51 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:37:44
52 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:44:31
The posters venting on here, in some cases the same ones who slagged off Moyes for making excuses and Martinez for being in denial, have shown that they will simply express anger whatever the manager says, so why bother pretending your anger is because of the comments? You're angry because of the performance, fair enough, we all are, don't deliberately make an effort to stretch that anger further than it should go.
The club is in trouble, with rightful question marks over the manager. Blind rage and panicked hysteria are not the answer.
53 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:45:13
He must be removed ASAP a replacement found and all the players he has ostracised must be brought back into the fold. If he stays we will continue to look like a disorganised heartless rabble and will be playing championship football next season.
54 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:45:31
Mike, well observed. Right there is about the perfect summary of the modern bullshitter (mostly called "Leader") that exists somewhere in most areas of life now, never mind football. It's been growing exponentially for about 25 years, and they're all learning fast from each other...
55 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:53:30
Atalanta looked like world -beaters last night because our team were unmotivated, without confidence and playing like a bunch of strangers. This malaise has been apparent all season.
Is there discontent in the squad? Is Koeman's management style upsetting the team's morale? I could go through the individuals who made mistakes, bad passes, poor concentration etc, but the problem is the whole team... there is a bad feel to it.
Players are unhappy, perhaps they are all as non-plussed as the rest of us that no replacement was found for Lukaku.
A drubbing at Old Trafford won't get Koeman the sack. Man Utd are candidates for the Title, and will hammer most visitors, but yet another display of this nature will hit the confidence even more and it will inevitably put more pressure on when we play someone we expect to beat. Lukaku will obviously score and make it an even harder pill to swallow.
I think we have seen that when Koeman faces a team he fears, he sets us up to defend in numbers. Either his tactics or the players fail to work on most occasions (Man City being an exception), this has happened numerous times.
His efforts are simply not good enough. We are failing to get the results and failing to play decent football. I can't see us turning it round on Sunday.
56 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:59:22
I rather think it's what he said and how it came across, than it being a reasonable acceptance of responsibility. Even allowing for him speaking English secondarily, he essentially painted himself as having not done his job, as opposed to making a mistake or error of judgement.
Rather stark to see the contrast to his usual style of either overtly or subtly redirecting the blame.
57 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:08:26
I know that he's paid to set them up and to direct them, but for goodness sake, to a man they were awful on the pitch yesterday.
No one up front is hurting us, but it can't be the only reason we were so abysmal. We've shown shadows of this sort of play many times before, especially when we play one of the 'top teams' and the red lot across the Park as well.
He was begging them to get him someone to replace Rom and they didn't. He deflecting criticism away from the players by blaming himself. Is he the right man? Hope so, if for no other reason than it will hack the media off.
58 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:13:13
There's no pace in the side, no width and no runners off the ball.
Regardless of who buys the players and lack of striker this is Koeman's fault.
59 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:18:13
Koeman is fortunate that today's media is more focussed on the German invasion of London, the Korean crisis and the latest hurricanes etc Otherwise, we would be laughed at as "poor little Everton" who've been put firmly in their place after having dreamt of challenging for a top 6 spot.
60 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:20:15
What worries me is that whoever takes over will have a hell of a job getting results with the squad we have available.
The only thing that will be attractive is the manager's salary.
61 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:22:25
More importantly, there is no pattern of play. I posted with two weeks left in the window, if he didn't buy a centre-forward, a left-sided centre back and a wide left player with pace we would have an unbalanced squad. We undoubtedly have an unbalanced squad.
62 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:24:01
Anyone partly sighted with one brain cell knows Atalanta dropped a couple of gears and the game was sewn up, allowing them to defend comfortably without taking any further risks. That's the measure of a real team. Their not great? their not poor they just do the fundamental side of football like a team.
Surprised by Tottenham's midfield, not prepared for Atalanta. My word when does proffessionalism come into the season.
Anthony, how can a run of decent fixtures make you back the manager? This simply means another season of not beating the beat enough and finishing where Everton usually finish.
63 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:24:57
Some of our fans need a reality check also. They believe what ever shit they are fed by the club. Lukaku was sold to create the illusion we were spending money. This was the catalyst for the disaster we are now suffering.
Koeman must go that's a given but our fan base is so gullible. There is no money at the club. There is no new stadium coming. Moshiri is in bed with Kenwright .
Nothing will be done regarding Koeman we don't have money to pay him off. The dressing room is lost already so guess what we are truly fucked.
Unsworth must come in if not Allardyce for the sole reason that he is an expert at saving teams from the drop. Whether you like it or not that is what we face tight now relegation. Believe it and wake the fuck up. This is as bad as Moyes in his second season.
Were the fuck is Peter Johnson when you need him.
64 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:29:31
A ridiculous number of attacking midfielders and a few defensive midfielders is okay if you attack quickly, but we don't, so that leaves 2 midfielders and 2 defenders left to defend the middle. No-one left to defend the flanks. You see the problem?
We're playing a counter-attacking game but we're too slow. We haven't scored in 3 full games and have leaked way too many. There doesn't even seem to be a plan B.
Surely Koeman is better than this? IMO the only good buys were Pickford, Keane, Rooney and ummmm wait... it'll come to me... uh...
65 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:30:05
It's been growing exponentially for about 25 years, and they're all learning fast from each other...
What baffles me is that the heirarchy more often than not swallow it.
66 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:31:36
Problem is, he clearly is unable to get his instructions across to the players.
I've said it before and will say it again, that's what'll finish him. You can be tough as nails, but if you can't communicate with your staff, you're heading for trouble.
Unsworth now, Ancelotti in the summer for me.
67 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:38:13
I think that's definitely a fraction of the issue but more in the fact his instructions are grim, surely between the whole coaching staff the instructions should surely be clear before the game?
He has a bunch of coaches to deliver instructions. No way can this solely be communication. Or maybe Southampton players find broken English easier to fathom? I just think the instructions are outdated, sluggish and cautious.
68 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:38:19
I had high hopes for Ronnie, and liked his frankness after the bullshitter had worn me down. However, things look wrong at the club. The Lukaku deal, the lack of replacement, the Barkley saga, Rooney's return (and driving offence), the new contract for Mirallas (then the attempt to sell him), the signing of Lookman(then getting the worst out of him). I suspect (just my own bit of conjecture) that the relationships between the main men, Koeman, Walsh, Moshiri & Kenwright, is stretched to breaking point.
The players are confused. The systems on the pitch are failing and the players have no faith in them. We saw the same happen at Chelsea under Morinho. The regular blame game has sapped the individuals of confidence. These things can spiral out of control if not corrected.
Koeman needs to get the senior players together and sort it out. They are all capable of much better regardless of the tactical shape on the park. If Ron can't get them to perform he should resign.
69 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:45:36
Given Koeman has been backed with funds, I can't see the board acting any time soon.
We appear to have gone from a bullshit merchant to an overweight sloth.
From what I can see, Koeman is hardly brimming with passion, enthusiasm and inspiration is he? Very worrying.
70 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:49:01
We can't seem to defend, make a pass and we seem set up to defend which we cant and not to score.
Added to buying three number 10's with no centre forward and inadequate cover at the back makes you wonder about how much money we have wasted on the first team. We could be in for a hiding on Sunday, Lukaku hat-trick price?
71 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:56:33
Like he said on BT Sports, they watched 7 or 8 videos of Gomez cutting in and shooting on his right foot yet the players seemed to be unaware that it was a potential danger.
Has he lost the dressing room? I don't think so. Are the players confused about what they should be doing, what their roles are and what the side is good at? 100%.
West Brom and Burnley would have got a result last night. I'm not saying definitely a win but that was a mid-table Italian side. We made them look like Real Madrid. Last time I saw a performance so devoid of ideas, passion, shape, commitment was in the woeful Walter Smith years.
With all those captains in the squad I can't believe that we look like we have no leaders. think he needs to give Rooney the armband because basically everyone is looking to him for how the side should play and he's not saying much because he's not the captain. He's the superstar, he was England captain, he's an Evertonian and he's the player with the most influence on the pitch.
How can our captain be a quiet man who can't get into the team when we have a man who only a few months ago was captain of England and Man Utd.
I'd start there if I was Koeman. First mistake he made this season.
72 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:59:24
To give so much time to this club and still see us where we are today, talking the same old talk, is nothing short of shameful. Kenwright would still have Martinez. Moshiri said McCarthy was family because he didn't want to spend more money last summer.
They don't have the passion for success that you have. They want a steady business where their investment grows and grows. Remember Stallone revealed he was gutted he never invested. He knows there is profit in the game now just like Moshiri knows.
Fans add to the nonsense. Saying Keane looks class after Rozemberok. What a brave quote that is.
Everything is wrong, mate, and a summer that could have been the start of a great plan looks set back even further now.
73 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:00:04
Koeman either needs to go or start playing a balanced team with players in there right positions.
74 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:01:33
You know what to expect with certain teams-possession based, long-ball, counter attacking etc.
With Koeman, I have no idea what his plan is at the moment. I don't get to see many games live, only on TV, and feel sorry for those that do. I was at Goodison for the friendly against Seville. For the first 30 seconds, we looked good...
As some on here have said, Koeman can't be held responsible for the inability to pass to someone in the same team. In the second half, Rooney tried a few long-distance crossfield passes that were easily cut out, setting up the other team on the attack and then casually jogged back to help the defence instead of getting back to help sort out the mess he had created.
We have had a few moments in the past. This could be our Wigan moment...it could soon be Koeman's.
Next up Man Utd. Usually I would suggest a draw would be good, but I think we should go all out on Sunday. We usually do reasonably well against Mourinho's teams. He will know what to expect, so let's do the unexpected and surprise him, just as Koeman was surprised by Spurs tactics...
75 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:02:27
76 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:06:34
I think Koeman did lose the players last season after a reasonable start and then he got them back, at least for a fair while. I think he's lost them again for whatever reason.
He has very little time and I don't think he can do it, but it's his only chance.
The other thing that is so concerning is our lack of fitness. We just don't look like professional athletes. Is that because of confidence or are the players just not set up right? When basics like that are wrong, then you have trouble.
77 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:07:09
The talent he leaves out is staggering (Lookman, Davies etc). I cannot understand his rationale or comments. Man Utd will doubtless stick another 3 or more passed us on Sunday... with you know who bagging the match ball!!
78 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:07:21
Koeman's signings,and lack of signings have been abysmal. We are totally lacking a left sided centre-back. Baines was poor again last night, as was everyone else, but we have no left back to replace him. As Carragher says, why spend £45m on a player we don't need, and not replace Lukaku??
Klaassen came on last night, did he even touch the ball?
We're in a relegation battle already, because we're conceding goals, and we have no striker at the other end to score. He has to go.
79 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:23:15
Something seriously wrong behind the scenes.
80 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:24:13
Sigurdsson was a great player at Swansea and he's been absolutely useless the last few games. Rooney terrible. Sandro and Klaassen, for both I had high hopes, should be nowhere near the first team at the moment.
Furthermore, Jagielka and Baines need to be replaced soon.
Schneiderlin too, he's been terrible.
81 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:25:24
82 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:29:58
83 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:33:59
Schneiderlin has played every game, except the one he was banned for, and he hasn't had a good game in any of them. You have tried three players at right back, Holgate, Davies and Martina, none of them have impressed while a young lad who has had a great 12 months for the U23s and England U20s hasn't had a minute on the pitch.
Go through the rest of the players and team selections with your coaching team. Between the lot of you, you might be able to get a nucleus of players who will go out and play with grit, determination and fuckin' pride plus some skill to represent the club.
Something is very wrong and if you and your coaching staff don't sort it out soon, you will all be gone.
84 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:34:42
We were so disjointed it was pathetic! Clear negligence of duty from the board in not bringing in a striker and centre-half and boy does it show!
We know we are likely to get spanked on Sunday so let's just go for it. I'd sooner get beat 4-2 having a go than another 3-0. My team:
Holgate Jagielka Keane Baines
Mirallas Davies Gueye Lookman
85 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:35:11
Happily (or not) Jagielka is there and he plays an awful first time pass across the pitch presumably meant for Baines that goes straight to their player who plays a first time long ball forward in behind where Baines and Jagielka might have been to their forward. Then suddenly they are breaking with men and yet Jagielka and Keane both go towards this forward who is currently out wide unable to do much.
Bizarrely, they both stand off him (Jags a few yards off and Keane in the middle of nowhere about 10 yards off no idea what he's thinking here) and just allow him all the time and space in the world to pick a pass to a midfield runner (not tracked properly by Besic) who waltzes in to the enormous space that Keane has left open to score.
'Amateur' does not do it justice. Missed passes, terrible communication and poor organisation/panic at the back. I hope Koeman is angry because I am furious.
I would almost feel bad handing this mess over to another manager, especially someone like Unsworth taking his first step up. The players are in no way faultless and individual performances have been very poor. Schneiderlin in particular is looking like a criminal waste of money of £25m. Surely he's capable of better.
Throwing the kids in is not the answer and I'd be worried what longtime damage putting the likes of Lookman, Kenny and Davies into this crumbling regime could do. It's up to Koeman and his senior (very expensive and well paid) players to get back to the basics, put in some very hard work, and show us that they give a shit.
86 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:38:20
I would be interested in being a fly on the wall during his half time team talk. Does he just stand there berating those who have failed to implement his nonsensical tactical plan, or does he praise those who have shown some effort and does he get animated and encouraging before sending them out for the second half.
One thing's for sure. If all he does is castigate the team for its failings without offering some encouragement of how to go out and try to put things right, it's not difficult to imagine just how quickly he could have lost the dressing room.
The man seems to be an expert demotivator, when we need someone to rouse the team to achieve a winning mentality. Koeman is most definitely not the manager we need and deserve. Get rid now, and give a new manager a remit to install some self-respect into our completely demoralised squad.
87 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:41:37
He stated that he showed them a video of Gomez, coming in from the left 8 times and bang, yet looked what happened and it was Vlasic that allowed it. If that's not preparing them then I don't know what is.
The simple fact is that he has bought players that are not up to it, Vlasic, Klaassen, Keane and even Sigurdsson and Rooney. Keane looked very sloppy and unsure in the replays; Rooney's head is elsewhere and should be nowhere near a pitch.
The fact that they are playing a system that isn't working and we have some players that are obviously past it in Baines, Jagielka and Williams just compounds the issues. Holgate is not a full back and is poor going forward, Davies looks like he has lost the mojo he had last year.
There is no quick fix to this and playing 11 youngsters with no experience is not the answer. I have to say, I have supported Everton for 40 years and, bar one season in 1990-91 when I lost my stomach for it, I haven't been this disheartened in that the whole time I supported them.
Last night was brutal and embarrassing and with this squad and this manager I can't see any real hope of a top half finish this season. Getting rid of the manager without the ability to to change the unbalanced squad with no recognized striker is futile and yet, its what appears to be what is required to start again.
88 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:41:47
They are professional, well paid athletes and they ain't performing. They need a rollicking and Rooney should be captain. He looks more like a footballer albeit with weakening legs than anyone else.
89 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:52:00
Of course I'm not happy with Koeman but some of the performances of the players are absolute garbage.
I'd rather see the kids play and lose with some passion than throw money at that lot.
90 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:52:45
Not sure what the solution is, but I might start by giving Mirallas a game. At least he has pace and directness. I'd also put Davies back into the team he might still be learning but he gives the team a heart.
91 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:53:07
92 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:55:46
93 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:57:42
Lack of a striker to hold the ball up and release pressure on the midfield is No 1 factor in our demise. Amongst others.
Look at the teams immediately above us in the league last year. Look at their striking options, then ask how are we going to gain ground?
It's not just one striker – we need it is at least two, it is going to be an almighty uphill struggle until we address it.
In the meantime, play Rooney as an outright centre-forward, he has the best chance of retaining possession. And give Lennon a chance to include some pace into the team.
94 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:59:45
95 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:03:57
96 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:07:23
Give him til December after some easier fixtures, and if we are bottom-half, there is no way he should survive and get another Transfer Window.
Marco Silva did great things at Hull and is doing the same at Watford I would like him in the dugout if it was up to me.
97 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:13:42
98 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:16:37
The answer is so easy put some effort into the game and we might stand a chance. When are Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Sandro going to turn up for a game? And I am sorry but Besic is not good enough.
Koeman most definitely is not up to the job remove now before we do more damage to this dreadful season
99 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:17:23
Having said that, I'd say give Koeman a run until the beginning of December. Maybe his plan will take shape?
100 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:19:26
One of the tips in football manager goes something like this "Don't play too many midfield playmakers, as they won't know who is in charge and neither will the rest your confused team."
101 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:21:04
He ripped apart a settled side since he came in. He shipped everyone out. The only first team player left right now is Baines, and to an extent Jagielka. Everyone else is gone, bar Coleman who is injured. So the fact that the players are incapable of following instructions is down to him. He selected these players.
I would agree that the players are not executing his tactics. The same way that the players were not executing Martinez's tactics. There is some similarities here.
Martinez wanted his teams to play a passing based game as we all know. But people on here seemed to think that Martinez wanted his team to just pass it around the back, and take a slow laboured approach. This is incorrect. Martinez wanted it played on the deck, but he wanted fast passing. That is what he coached.
In the first season you saw McCarthy and Barry linking well and moving the ball quickly to Barkley, Deulofeu and Lukaku. After McCarthy started to get injury after injury and lost his sparkle, and Barry started to fade as well, we saw the ball being moved slowly.
This is what is happening now. When we win the ball, we take too long to get the ball moving forwards. That was not what Martinez coached and it is definitely not what Koeman coached. Both want the ball moving quickly. But Martinez wanted ball retention whereas Koeman is happy for long passes.
So what's going on here? It's down to the players. Schneiderlin is not playing well. But I would ask you to note that Gueye is also not playing well. They will be playing well if you see them link up better together. Last night, we saw Besic and Schneiderlin play together and they did not link up at all. Besic lacks any qualities of a top class midfielder. He's too slow, too unaware of where he is meant to be, and seems to always be out of position.
Vlasic made his debut and had a nightmare. but the whole side was appalling from back to front, Stekelenburg excepted.
According to Jose Mourinho, modern football is all about the transitions. That is what I was writing about just before. How quickly we can get the ball moving from the time the ball is won. We are taking too long in these transitions and it is the problem we had for the last two years under Martinez and at times under Moyes. But even the master, Mourinho himself, had issues with the transitions in his dreadful time at Chelsea leading up to his sacking. All of his problems came from the players not transitioning well.
So what is causing the players to do this? Why do they hit pointless square passes to lose all momentum? Why do they ignore the team plan and coaching? I think it comes down to the following:
- Confidence the team now seemed shot on confidence
- Familiarity there's been too many players brought in and they don't know each other
- Laziness just do the easy thing
- Shirking responsibility make someone else responsible
- Self-preservation player can keep his own personal stats up and say that he didn't have a bad game look at his 100% passing ratio
- Dislike of the manager not wanting to play for him
- Lack of belief in teammates
Koeman needs to take action and he needs to sort it out on Wednesday with an experimental side made up of first team players to get them confident.
102 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:22:56
What plan would that be? Seriously, do you have any idea what system, shape he wants to play?
103 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:24:02
Playing Rooney as an outright forward doesn't work. He just drifts into the Number 10 position and we end up with two Number 10's. He needs to be out of the team and Sandro the forward like he was at Malaga.
Rooney is not the answer and never should have been. As soon as he went off last night, look how we started pressing. It was too little too late but it was happening. I genuinely believe Rooney is part of the problem. Koeman keeps picking him though.
104 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:25:28
105 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:26:52
He has alienated something like half the playing staff, and bought in crap players, presumably for huge wages, and appears to have absolutely no understanding that there are different roles in a football team. Playing 11 goalkeepers would not result in fewer goals being shipped, so playing with 4 or 5 No 10s, 3 or 4 defensive midfielders, and centre backs at right back is unlikely to have a good result.
It is perfectly clear that not only is the team that starts the game completely unbalanced, it is thoroughly demotivated and confused. Even at the end of Martinez's period in charge we had some talented players who could score a few goals or at least threaten defences (Lukaku, Deulofeu, Barkley).
If I were Mourhino I'd be thinking about putting just a couple at the back and going for full on attack and seeing if I could get the highest ever score in the Premier League (it's 9-0, and was Man Utd vs Ipswich). If the standard is like last night, 10 or 12 should be easy.
106 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:27:52
Koeman is completely useless, he has no motivational skills, this has been going on for the last 20 games and the performances are getting worse. How long do we wait? Especially as there's an excellent, proven man out there without a job!
107 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:28:22
No idea, but there has to be one. To me, the plan seemed to be to replace a 25-goal player with 7 or 8, 8- to 12-goal players. However, a striker that can hold up the ball is crucial if that was the plan.
Seemed like a good idea at the time, but they haven't gelled (yet?) and no big striker scotches everything.
108 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:28:40
109 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:29:09
110 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:29:34
111 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:35:54
Agreed, but is Koeman allowed to drop Rooney?
It's clear that Klaassen and Sigurdsson were his buys, so why buy Rooney? I think it's clear that Rooney was lined up to return long before Koeman arrived, and Koeman was made aware of this. Of course he was going to say that we wanted him. What choice did he have?
If we had managed to buy a striker at the end of the window, then where would Rooney have played? Is this why Kenwright refused to sanction one coming in? Rooney is Kenwright's buy and has been promised starts. It stinks.
Not to say that I don't think Rooney has qualities, but he doesn't fit into this team. Sigurdsson needs to play the role he excels in. Klaassen needs to be given an opportunity to really find his feet, and Sandro was the only player who really looked like he gave a shit last night.
We need to shake things up. Is Rooney droppable? It seems to me that he has been promised starts. Maybe it's in his contract. It's a mistake and it stinks.
112 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:36:31
Totally agree ! How the management whoever it was let the window pass without getting a striker in, hold-up type or some Premier League pedigree (Giroud ideal) needs shooting. Suicide thinking we could manage without.
After watching our first two Europa League games it was so so evident we had no threat going forward against weak opposition, there was time to react but no. We are screwed now until at least January. Totally gutted!
113 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:45:48
114 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:49:53
"They have been tough games..."
Really? Maybe the Premier League games were but this was hardly Mission Fucking Impossible.
"In the second half we put on a little bit of a better performance but even then, we probably saved ourselves from being embarrassed."
No you didn't; you are all an embarrassment and In sure you don't feel half as bad as us supporters do, having to listen to all the shite from the RS supporters in work.
115 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:51:24
116 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:53:08
117 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:00:38
"I massively feel for the supporters. I went over to clap them at the end, which wasn't nice to do. They have spent a lot of time and money to get here".
I went on the clubs official package day trip, at a cost of £400. There were 151 passengers on the flight, including two Thomas Cook representatives, and 4 Everton stewards. Assuming those 6 people didn't pay, that left 145 paying passengers x £400 = £58,000 to charter the aircraft and coach transfer.
£58,000 seems a hell of a lot to charter an aircraft, but maybe not, I don't know. But I'll tell you what, Jags, you or anyone of those players last night, or Koeman,could have paid to charter that aircraft out of your over inflated weekly salary, and still have a few thousand left over.
I wonder if he is still feeling for us this morning?
118 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:01:34
119 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:04:42
120 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:04:56
How much longer are we going to wait for success? We have been utter utter shit for 30 years whilst everyone around us has grown! It's fucking shocking what has happened to our club, wake up and smell the fucking coffee.
The time to act is now, not wait in hope that he turns it round, I for one am sick of fucking waiting, hes fucking crap! Wake up!
121 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:05:22
Rooney was "considering his future" as late as this summer, ie, just weeks before we signed him. Koeman was talking Rooney up in press-conferences before that.
Koeman is not a man who would be forced into anything. That is very clear from how he is. I cannot envisage that Rooney was "signed" or what have you before we actually did sign him, or even before Koeman came. Rooney came in with Koeman's consent at the very least.
Koeman has signed Rooney, Klaassen and Sigurdsson deliberately. Some like myself have tried to guess where he plays them all in the same side. All of my guesses have been wrong as Koeman keeps doing strange selections.
The best way to make them work, is to have them all play off a fixed striker, the best we have for that is Calvert-Lewin, and to play them all centrally and narrow. Klaassen will play vertically looking to get the ball forwards and then go forwards himself. Rooney and Sigurdsson will look to pull off the killer pass and hang back. So a very narrow 4-2-3-1 with Klaassen behind the striker and the other two marginally wide of him with licence to roam.
However, I would personally like to see a deviation of a 4-2-3-1. I would want the defensive axis of Schneiderlin and Gueye to remain in tact as I think that was crucial to everything good last season and can provide the stability upon which to build in the side. I would also want the stability of a fixed forward man in Calvert-Lewin. I would then like to see a player who will run at defences in one of the wide positions of the 3 and a player who will come inside in the other wide position.
For the central number 10 position, I would actually go with Rooney as what good we have done this season has all come through him. I would then utilise Rooney in a completely free role. Let him go wherever he wants, and as the defensive two is in place, the back four is settled, and Calvert-Lewin is occupying the defence, then Rooney can find the space to operate.
122 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:06:09
I'm as disappointed with the last 3 performances as most on here but calling for his head after 4 Premier League games is a bit premature if you ask me. I'd at least wait to see we're we are going after the next set of fixtures after Man Utd, then I will make my judgement.
123 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:06:52
We are a bigger joke than when Martinez was managing
124 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:11:12
Seamus back in for Kenny, Barkley for Vlasic and Bolasie competing with Lookman in due course. Sandro coming in now and again for any of front 3.
If McCarthy fit on a consistent basis, he should come in for Gueye. Schneiderlin and Klaassen to get chance to prove themselves but sell in summer if they do not.
125 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:15:12
I fully agree. I think signing Rooney was a really bad idea and personally I don't think it was Koeman's decision. Given his wages and the fanfare I think he's also under some obligation to pick him.
Sigurdsson was always Koeman's first choice for a No 10 so signing Rooney made no sense and picking him along with Sigurdsson gives no balance.
We do have good players all be it lacking confidence, width and pace in the attacking part, but there is something not right in the camp and the players are obviously not happy. I always worried that Rooneys' signing would cause issues behind the scenes I may well be wrong but that's my opinion.
The club should use his 'issues' as an excuse to 'rest' him for a few games and allow the team to function without him. Put Mirallas back in the side for pace and width and bring Lookman in off the bench.
126 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:19:12
127 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:19:47
128 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:21:04
129 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:21:24
I believe Koeman was in total charge of all the transfers including buying Rooney. I'm fed up listening to bullshit, that Kenwright wouldn't allow us buy a striker at the end of the window.
Lukaku was gone the first day of the window, Koeman had 2 months to buy a striker, instead he spent £45m on Sigurdsson. You said play him in the role he excels in, his role was setting up Llorente, a striker which he didn't buy.
As for Klaassen, he has been given an opportunity, but having cost £26m, he needs at least a season to adjust to the rigours of the Premier League.
130 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:23:50
Koeman's tactics are off he reminds me of Moyes at the end of his Man Utd reign. There is no direction, no obvious idea. The players are lacking confidence, and being played out of position incessantly. What was he doing with Rooney last night?!
Lukaku's loss is massive. Those who said he wouldn't be missed either don't understand football or haven't watched football. That will hold us back this season, as will a lack of pace and the lack of a top centre-back partner to Keane. But the issues run much deeper than that. I said last week that we should give Koeman until the November international break. After last night, I think we should give him until 1 October.
We started poorly last season – we are starting poorly this. The football is dull, the decisions strange, and the confidence and determination are missing. He has three league fixtures, a domestic cup game, and a Europa League game to come. It we can't improve from this insipid dross, then I'd rather us give Unsworth a chance.
I don't think that there is a top manager we can just pluck from another club – it would be a risk throwing someone untried in. But the point is that Koeman is failing and that we haven't really put in a good performance this season.
Unsworth has impressed with the Under-23s, knows the club, and might just get us playing sensible football, ie, the kind of football that doesn't put a paceless Rooney on the wing.
131 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:25:07
While I believe in Koeman, if faced with the choice between them, then it is Barkley all day long for me. I suspect economically that is a no-brainer as well. Not sure why Moshiri is not on that page yet...
132 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:29:48
It is more economical to keep Koeman and let Barkley leave and hope and pray that Koeman strikes lucky and gets things going again. Don't forget that, after a stuttering start last season, it was all doom and gloom in November before things picked up dramatically.
133 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:33:16
Out of all the number 10's Rooney is bottom of the pile in my opinion. No doubt he's a naturally gifted footballer but his time was up years ago.
We should be rotating Klaassen and Sigurdsson in the Number 10 position and getting some pace in on the wings. Schneiderlin shouldn't be anywhere near the starting 11 right now.
We all know Koeman likes his teams to press and with Rooney it's non-existent look what happened last night after he went off.
134 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:40:04
You've highlited the problem right there Steve, even your praying for a divine intervention!
135 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:41:46
Forget the stadium, that simply won't be built, Rooney may go off to China to escape the gathering whirlwind whilst the pig-faced and pig-headed Koeman, with his partner in crime Walsh, continue to shepherd their blue flock away from the promised land.
136 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:43:02
Agreed, he was always going to bring his off-field drama with him. The fact he wasn't dropped after the drink driving charge does my head in. It's not the incident itself but the fact he was drinking. Anyone seriously think that was a one-off?!
The rest of the team must be thinking where's the respect. He's getting 90 mins every league game.
Let's hope he doesn't start at Old Trafford...
137 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:44:16
138 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:48:19
As for being better once Rooney went off, I think that's more because Atalanta took their foot of the gas and sat back more. Most teams who get thrashed in the first half improve dramatically in the second. This is usually just due to the dominant team easing off.
Koeman says about pressing, but I would ask if we have ever really seen it. The stats don't bear out a pressing game. We don't press collectively. if I want to be truly critical, then I would point out that we were at our best last season when we played Gueye, Davies and Schneiderlin and the former two pressed hard, but no one else did.
As for dropping Schneiderlin, who else in the team can play his role? What other person in the side do we have who can hit the long pass? Only Rooney. Gueye and Schneiderlin are different players, with different supplement each other and are meant to cancel out each other's deficiencies. Take Schneiderlin out of the side and we would lose the last bit of shape we have and the last bit of impetus we have.
There's something clearly not right in the middle of the park and Koeman needs to get a grip of it. How Davies is now behind Besic is beyond me.
139 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:51:04
140 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:54:02
Most fans can see Everton have no spirit or confidence and certainly no bite. At the moment I would dread them getting Billericay in the next match let alone Man Utd.
Everton seem to have a much talent on paper as any most other teams but are lacking the inspiration from the manager who sounds like he has a defeatest attitude, simply not knowing what to do next.
141 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:56:14
Most, if not all, Koeman's buys have mostly been bad except for Gueye. The others for various reasons have either been over priced or have not performed. Koeman, instead of looking for unearthed gems with his knowledge of football throughout Europe actually tried to buy proven quality. But with spending so much on a few players there are glaring gaps in the defence and the attack.
Williams and Baines should have been replaced with far better defenders. But the most glaring deficiencies were not to obtain two proven strikers and someone out wide.
142 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:05:32
Very quick search and probably not including all the variables but it was for a 767.
I stand to be corrected by a lot, probably, but after that shit show, step up the board and show we are the People's Club and its not some shit saying to appease the lack of trophies the past two decades and reimburse the diehards that spent their hard earned wonga watching that shower.
As bad as I can remember, and I watched us against Spurs!
143 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:06:39
144 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:09:31
Me! fat, bald, overweight useless sack of shit, would still equal his output!
And we don't need to be playing long passes as we're playing it narrow through the middle? That's what you said wasn't it?
Not having a go at you or questioning Wazza's ability for a long pass, but we don't play width and if the serial swordsman is playing long passes he must be far too deep, a psychological problem from his Man Urtd, England and TGT (on the wing) days or just a desire to win?
145 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:23:53
Kenny Keane Holgate Baines
Lennon Gueye Davies Lookman
I would have dropped Baines but Garbutt has no game time, and if McCarthy was fit, I'd start him.
146 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:25:57
I didn't say we were better when Rooney went off just that all of a sudden we were collectively pressing a complete change to the previous hour or so. This is what Koeman wanted all last season and it at least shows some sort of game plan.
As for Schneiderlin I don't recall him being a long pass kind of player so I looked it up on Whoscored. He does 1 long pass per game. He's renowned on TW for passing backwards!
I'm wondering if Davies wasn't played last night to keep him fresh for Sunday. Probably why we didn't see Gueye either.
147 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:28:31
And if you do play narrowly, then you pull the opposition to be more narrow as well, which means there is space on the flanks to pass into. The theory is then that Schneiderlin will be hitting long passes to Coleman and Baines who get forward unchecked by the opposition.
It's hard to tell exactly what Koeman is doing, it is all such a mess. He really needs to sort it out.
148 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:29:05
Yes, criminal. And we can't say it's because Besic is a Koeman signing. Besic was appalling last night, and not for the first time.
149 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:37:31
We have absolutely no threat and opposition can attack without fear. He has spent very badly but needs to find a solution within. We could be on for a record low-scoring season, I reckon.
150 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:52:29
Since then, he's focused his time on chatting to the nurses in sick bay or expanding his collection of yellow and red cards, to add to his ridiculous tattoos.
151 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:56:49
What I was trying to say was that Koeman is accused of playing people because he signed them (and maybe that's true). If so, that can't be an excuse for playing Besic, as Koeman didn't sign him.
152 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:56:56
Schneiderlin's background is as an attacking midfielder, prior to coming to Southampton. Adkins then made him into more of a box-to-box midfielder before he excelled for Pochettino in a more defensive role.
What set Schneiderlin apart is that is he got fitter and became more of a box to box midfielder, and as he became more responsible for defending, his attacking statistics remained high.
We all know he had a dip / was wasted at Man Utd. He's come here and is being deployed deeper than ever. We let Gueye be the one to press more as Gueye clearly has the greater lung power and can run all day long. But Schneiderlin sits in more, and shields the defence.
Clearly, it didn't work against spurs, but I would be interested to know how many times the opposition have scored more than 2 against Gueye and Schneiderlin.
For me, without looking at the stats, Schneiderlin has still been doing the playmaking duties well (last season) and he was passing the ball forward more noticeably than others and in a better way (less hospital passes and less hopeful balls).
This season, his attacking play has been poor. but up until the last two games, defensively he was still sound, such as in the Man City game where he was excellent up until he was sent off.
153 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:57:54
1. Doesn't seem to give a shit about us his language is very detached.
2. His man-management skills are dreadful he's alienated too many players.
3. His tactics are woeful. He lost me last year after the Chelsea game when we lost 5-0. His tactics 'kick it up to Lukaku' end of his tactical team talk.
4. His buying of 4/5 midfield players who play in the same position and no strikers bizarre.
5. His selection of his 'favourites'; but even then playing them out of position even more bizarre!
6. His cost £6 million a year clearly doesn't get you much these days!
154 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:02:00
I thought/hoped that come the transfer window,we'd be getting shut of our less competent players and would bring in players in to step us up towards challenging the top six. I would have thought we would be challenging the top four for at least another full season and transfer window.
As the transfer window it was a real good feeling to see us pick up so many young players with skill, athleticism and a will to win. getting near to the closing of it, I was like most others, looking for us to get "the centre-forward" with Giroud being the man.
It didn't happen and I thought we looked overcrowded in the midfield but that Klaassen, Sandro, Rooney and Sigurdsson, at the very least, would be looking dangerous and all had plenty of goals in them. That we'd be able to get through to January not too far away from 7th and then get our injured players back and a centre forward brought in, and we could then be able to offer a strong challenge to those above us.
Well, during the Spurs game I couldn't help thinking that the players in Blue were not a team and not only were Spurs giving us a football lesson, I could see that there was no hope that we would learn that lesson.
One glaring weakness that could perhaps have been rectified, was the right full-back. I felt sorry for him. I don't think he's the fullback for us but could understand that it was thought he might be useful in emergencies until Seamus was back.
I don't really like playing manager but on this occasion it was absolutely crystal clear to everyone, that Cuco was out of position and out of his depth playing in that defence. He at least was making some really good runs forward but that wasn't his major task. Davies for Spurs had all the time in the world (could have sat down, had a cup of tea, read the paper, then got up and crossed the ball) to supply their dangerous forwards with crosses.
I don't know if young Kenny was on the bench but it would have been an opportunity to bring that Cuco feller to a more forward position and let him put his crosses in, while Kenny tore into Davies.
That's just one change that could have been tried; there were others, such as letting Ramiro play alongside young Calvert-Lewin with Rooney feeding both.
Anyway, the end result is as the match played out I could only think that we, as a club, were in trouble. I couldn't see any nucleus, except for the goalie, perhaps Keane, Guye, and Rooney, with maybe Ramirez and Klaassen coming good and Sigurdsson having the right position for him and with players round him to support; and that would be about it.
Schneiderlin might just not be a defensive midfielder doing the Barry job, but he certainly doesn't look it.
The manager, well, I thought that he did a good job at Southampton and that he'd do a better job for us.
I can't see it though, I'm sorry to say.
We've plenty of kids who would be chomping at the bit to get into the first team and perhaps we could do worse; but it would be terrible to give them a baptism of fire and expect them to save us... and I mean that... to save us; as I can't see Ronald Koeman providing the answers.
I think we're in such a position that by Christmas, if the play hasn't improved, I think Farhad Moshiri will have to use the axe.
It would be hard for a manager to come in with such a shambles that we have but I think we'll be lucky, very lucky to see any kind of dramatic improvement with the present coach.
Hope I'm wrong but I was talking to some lads in the pub last night who had seen the Atalanta match. All long standing Evertonians from the early sixties and they all said the same. This is as bad as the bad times.
155 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:03:04
156 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:15:11
157 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:15:53
158 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:21:13
159 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:26:32
161 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:33:16
162 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:53:01
Put Unsworth in caretaker charge now, as he should have been two years back.
163 Posted 15/09/2017 at 14:09:43
164 Posted 15/09/2017 at 14:10:50
Of those three players only Sigurdsson looks an addition to the squad. Rooney despite all the pre-season hype looks what he is, a formerly very good player whose legs have gone. Klaassen looks neat and competent, but does not look like a player who would ever be more than a good squad man.
I'm also concerned the way local lads like Kenny and Davies are being frozen out by Koeman. Schneiderlin looks like a player who has lost his mojo and shows few signs of it coming back.
As for motivation and passion, well! Koeman bought the players, trains the players and is paid £6 million a year to motivate the players. He has managed in the short time he has had Keane to change him from an excellent, international class central defender into a hesitant, shambles.
This man is not the manager we want, we were promised or the one we need.
165 Posted 15/09/2017 at 14:19:58
When he first signed, he talked about a project. Didn't he? He signed a three-year contract and we are mid-way through his contract. And where's his project taking us now that he's consumed 50% of his contract?
What are we going to achieve by end of next season when his contract is over?
He somehow mentioned that this team is too new and it'll take time to settle. Surely, they won't be settled in time this season to get Champions League football or win anything comfortably this season.
Does this guy have a clue?
He shows no passion and productivity in his speech and treatment of established Everton players who were here prior to him.
A manager is also supposed to bring the best out of average players. How much had he brought out of Deulofeu, Niasse, McCarthy, Barkley and the youngsters he had shipped to Sunderland?
166 Posted 15/09/2017 at 14:46:29
It's the same with all this talk of Morgan's vital role in the 'quick transitioning' of play. Perfectly fine in theory but how often does it actually materialise? Sure, he picked a couple of passes out against City, but soon settled back into his usual placid routine when they started to turn the screw.
On the occasions he wins the ball back, he very rarely gets it moving forward first time, instead preferring to put his foot on it before nonchalantly knocking it back or slipping a short pass sideways.
He might very well possess the ability to spray long passes all over the field but, whether due to a lack of movement from others, fuck all width to the team, or a tendency to do the bare minimum while keeping things tidy, it's a skill set he seems strangely shy in utilising.
Gareth Barry certainly had the ability to look, see and implement the long pass in his locker, but used to get endless grief because of his being as nimble on his toes as Ed-209 at the top of a flight of stairs. Schneiderlin is equally as slow but without the excuse of advancing age to seek solace behind.
Whereas Barry was a player with great nous who knew where to situate himself on the pitch in order to minimise the impact of his running through mud in orthopaedic shoes and also when and where to take a hit/card for the team, Schneiderlin's stock answer...once he's been skinned and slid in too late a couple of times... seems to be to gradually slink further back as the game progresses, until he's effectively playing in the space already occupied by the centre-halves. All it does is to invite further pressure and cause confusion over who is meant to be picking up who.
It's not just this time out either. Schneiderlin's performance against Spurs last season was possibly the poorest from an Everton player all season. He might look decent in games against weaker opposition, where Everton are on top and he can remain unruffled, as his composure in such instances is regularly interpreted as 'class'. When the team are under the cosh and there's a bit of pace careening toward him, he craps it, panics and can be pushed aside as easily as the rest of them.
167 Posted 15/09/2017 at 14:57:34
Dead man walking.
168 Posted 15/09/2017 at 14:58:18
But who the fuck is Ed-209?
169 Posted 15/09/2017 at 16:27:25
1.Who was the clown who bought in those players?
2.What is he doing with the promising players Everton have?
3. What is he telling his first team on the training ground, or do they train?
4. I can't workout the tactics.
5.Have they a Manager?
Answer: They have a Manager paid £6 million a year...
170 Posted 15/09/2017 at 16:51:54
I'm not one for sacking managers when things get sticky, though I totally understand the frustration of our supporters.
To me the best thing now is for us to stick together as much as possible and get the team playing well. I'd imagine that's the mantra on the inside as well.
If we sack Koeman, what then? Who do we bring in? Who's available? How does that serve? I'd be interested to hear any options from those on here that want him sacked now...
171 Posted 15/09/2017 at 17:42:57
Thomas Tuchel is available, David Unsworth is available, Mike Bassett is available... all would be an upgrade on Koeman.
172 Posted 15/09/2017 at 18:03:02
The team is a complete shambles. We have no shape, no width, no striker, players playing out of position. Last night we were second to every ball, no drive, aggression, passion, we couldn't even string two passes together.
We were the same against Spurs and Chelsea. We don't even look fit. If he was sacked, whoever takes over, couldn't do any worse.
By the way, have to agree with Brent, always thought Besic was over-rated.
173 Posted 15/09/2017 at 18:34:49
Confidence is the main thing in football, you can have all the talent in the world but if you've got no confidence you're not going to play well. Koeman needs to earn his corn over the next 3-4 weeks and if he can't get the players to put in the requisite effort/passion/aggression etc then its time to go I think he also wouldn't be able to blame it on the tough start to the season.
I'm ordering a suitably large sofa for the game this weekend not sure I can take watching it, especially as Lukaku will inevitably score. Might be one to miss and just check the score at half-time.
174 Posted 15/09/2017 at 18:39:16
175 Posted 15/09/2017 at 19:03:40
Not to mention spending so much money on some useless players. He has no clue what he is doing. If this club has a drop of ambition, they should sack the charlatan now!
There is no point to analyse the games anymore! It is beyond that. We are the laughing stock of the football world!
176 Posted 15/09/2017 at 19:31:16
177 Posted 15/09/2017 at 20:11:57
What young players with skill?
Every player we've bough has been average or worse, and in some cases hey have already peaked.
This whole thread is a joke. There are no complicated answers or complicated problems just the glaring obvious.
Since Moshiri arrived we've sold a truly world class striker. A current top international centre-back. A top international goalkeeper become too old, and our strength at full back deteriorated for reasons outside of our control. The best midfielder we had in Barkley, you mostly want rid off.
We then bought shit players. Every single one of them. Some we chased for months.
The young skillful players we signed??? Where? I must have missed that? We let one go in Deulofeu though.
Pardew could not believe we bought Bolasie. Schneirderlin was good at Southampton four years ago. McCarthy was supposed to be good back then too. Man Utd played Carrick and Fellaini ahead of him. Most fans said he played good last season. When was that? Standing in space in front of a back 4 at home against poor uninterested mid table sides, hitting simple passes. Is anyone really going to come on here and tell me that an on form Schneirderlin is better than an 90% Barry? He got injured 2 or 3 times as well. Fans are seeing what they want or confirmation bias plays a part.
How can you finish 7th and buy non international players, a goalie who is not even quite 6'-1" and expect to improve?
And waste tens of millions on kids the big boys don't want and our Under-23s are already very good.
Rooney, Sigurdsson, Gana and Sandro are the only players out of every player brought in the last three windows.
This 4 with a goalkeeper, centre-bac, winger, cm, all current internationals from grade A countries, with the strength and pace to cope with the premier league is all we needed.
Plus two new deals for Barkley and Lukaku should have been on the table the day after Moshiri arrived.
Lukaku should only have been allowed to leave once, Bellotti or Werner or Williams had agreed to sign. But no, Lukaku is lazy, bad touch etc... The fans and the board love selling. Most fans loved it. They loved the minuscule fee, the over-hyped shite players coming in and Walsh's, Koeman's, and Moshiri's drivel that they always talk. The worst of which was trying to force Barkley out.
Therefore I believe the fans are as responsible as Koeman and Walsh. Just think how they treat other fans like Hind who spot flaws early and demand better.
Low expectations equals low achievements.
178 Posted 15/09/2017 at 21:00:58
Enough is enough. The players have to work harder if not for the manager but for the fans. These are professional footballers and it's too easy to hide away. Unless we work harder on Sunday, it could be embarrassing. There are no excuses for a lack of effort, desire and hunger.
179 Posted 15/09/2017 at 21:10:55
I was there in 1969-70 School of Science in Royal Blue.
I was their in 1984-85 Reidy, Bracewell to name but a few, in Royal Blue.
Keoman, you may have had an illustrious career as a player. But as Everton FC manager, you are not fit to lace the boots of our past players. How dare you treat our great club with such contempt. We will be a great club again long after you have gone.
180 Posted 15/09/2017 at 21:26:40
After Sunday, we have a run of games that are very winnable. Let's see where we are after we play Brighton.
181 Posted 15/09/2017 at 21:46:08
Realistically, a new side is always going to struggle with that start. As for the lack of striking options, Giroud was the preferred incoming but shit happens and his wife turned us down. All other options were second best and most on here didn't want them. Costa? Do me a favour – he was never coming.
It's a long term process and calling for a change of manager after 4 league games and an away defeat to Italians is knee jerk.
Give it time – we won't get relegated and we probably won't get top 4, or even 6, but the players we have, with a couple of additions in January and summer, will improve us. It's not going to happen overnight.
182 Posted 15/09/2017 at 22:13:24
Problems summed up in Darren Griffith's commentary on the Atalanta game – they look fitter than us; same with Spurs, more movement – those of us who stayed to the end saw Spurs still running to the end 3-0 up!!!
When Koeman arrived last season he said we were 70% fit and sorted it.
Needs to look at his staff and himself and see if he's still practising what he was preaching.
Sort it Ronald – you and those buggers are getting paid enough. It's your team now... let's see if you really are such a good manager!!!
183 Posted 15/09/2017 at 23:27:58
Koeman's tactics and selections will only really matter when the players think like Tim. Confidence is low and perhaps Koeman's weakness is his inability to raise their confidence, belief and to an extent, motivation. Big problem if he doesn't have the dressing room, but the players have responsibility too.
185 Posted 15/09/2017 at 23:52:42
If you look at it like that, we've got the points we expect we'd've had. A difficult start fixture-wise, to be bedding in a complete new team against lesser opposition, it could've been easier for our new team to gel... but they have been thrown in at the deep end.
Please be patient. The good times will return. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum!!!
186 Posted 16/09/2017 at 01:33:56
The problem as I believe most of us see it is not just about the three shattering defeats we've suffered but is one that has been building up since the last quarter of last season when we appeared to 'give up' in the chase for 6th place. We generously put it down to the players having their flip-flops on ready for their holidays but in fact we now see exactly the same malady infecting the team.
These are now by and large a completely different set of players, brought in by Koeman himself, but they are playing exactly the same slow, ponderous, ultra defensive and totally turgid rubbish we saw last season. Our general performance levels dropped off seriously from March and it is becoming clear that no matter who the personnel are, Koeman is sending them out totally ill-prepared, with no tactics worth mentioning and they are looking more demoralised with each passing week.
So we are not simply basing calls for his sacking on the opening games of this season, but on a malaise that Koeman appears to have infected every one of our players with, new signings as well as older squad members.
He is well out of his depth and seemingly bereft of ideas on how to correct things. Not to forget that he appears to be single-handedly alienating player after player with his overbearing, headmaster-like methods which might have been okay a decade ago but not any more when he's dealing with millionaire players who won't be spoken to or publicly castigated the way he treats them.
Nothing is going to change, I fear, until Koeman is gone. He has turned us into a laughing stock, but I for one, fail to see the funny side.
187 Posted 16/09/2017 at 03:14:01
- He can't magically buy any player he wants. I'm sure he wanted to replace Lukaku (how are all those who called for Rom's head last season feeling now?) but it isn't always that straight forward.
- He is dealing with this squad:
Pickford decent but fresh
Stekelenburg not terrible but not amazing either
Robles not very reliable
Kenny unknown quantity
Connolly totally unknown quantity
Jagielka crap, uninspiring, can't pass,
Baines finished and was overrated his entire career anyway
Holgate not as good as some on here think
Funes Mori sick-note, good for a clanger when he plays, sadly probably our best CB over the past few seasons
Williams bit more mongrel than Jags, but still not very good
Browning is he still at the club?
Sigurdsson will be deadly when played in correct position
Vlasic could turn out to be a good buy, or could turn out to be Magaye Gueye in disguise who knows?
Schneiderlin in a poor run of form, but a quality player when playing his correct position
Klaassen looks like Naismith, hopefully he is a better player than Naismith
Davies very good.
Gueye very good
Besic has suffered from three years of injuries
McCarthy what happened here?
Dowell unknown quantity
Barkley it's all been said
Rooney will score goals but very little else.
Mirallas could be a game changer if given more than half an hour a month
Bolasie if he ever plays for us again, I'll be excited
Lookman needs minutes to fulfill potential
Calvert-Lewin not very good
Sandro will probably score goals against the bottom seven, maybe not much else
Niasse - see Lennon and multiply the mehs.
Any manager would struggle to make much sense out of that squad. I know it is pretty much a squad Koeman has built, but it is also a squad that the club was capable of attracting. If Ronaldo and Messi had a penchant for crashing hen's nights and wet weather, then perhaps we'd be able to attract players of their ilk.
188 Posted 16/09/2017 at 05:54:42
He still praises how good Baines, Jags and Rooney are in spite of them having lost it. Yesterday in the press, he singled out Keane and Davies for their bad performances, but others are protected: Williams, Jagielka, Baines, Schneiderlin, etc. He is only making things worse.
As for Kenny, he said he doesn't deserve his chance as U23 play is as good as first team training. So Messi, Rashford, Kane are as good as Everton 1st team training. I fear for Kenny, Davies, Lookman and Barkley their future with us.
Win or lose at Old Trafford, this guy needs to go. He is only doing more damage to the club.
189 Posted 16/09/2017 at 07:53:20
190 Posted 16/09/2017 at 08:35:44
Then we got beat by what could easily be the champions and runners up this season and the confidence took a knock. Atalanta was shocking and I'm not expecting a win or even a draw tomorrow but we will get better over this season.
We may have to settle for upper mid table but we have the beginnings of a good squad for the future with exciting young players coming through, and in spite of many people's view on here, a manager who IS giving them game time.
I'm frustrated and impatient too but only Evertonians expected us to go top four this season it's going to take longer than that and we need to give Koeman and the new players a chance to find the right blend.
If not, Rhino will step up next summer but let's not panic after 4 league games we're not Palace!
191 Posted 16/09/2017 at 08:48:30
Team confidence has evaporated. We might scramble a few draws and the odd lucky win. Our only hope is the return of injured players and the January transfer window.
We are in this position through incompetence.
193 Posted 16/09/2017 at 09:17:40
"Incompetence", as manifest in the form of too much business-plan football club ownership, with the intent to be a top half of the table, secure investment, sold under the guise of aiming for the big time. The plan has only missed schedule so far by a slight overestimation of Koeman's abilities, and not getting a centre-forward... maybe.
194 Posted 16/09/2017 at 09:18:01
Not sure what to make of it all really – Manager not good enough? Players not good enough? Players don't care?
For what it's worth, this club has been here several times over the last 20 odd years and is like watching groundhog day.
Any player that has a winners mentality is sold and not replaced,with the excuse we are a sell to buy club.
Rubbish leadership mantra: Average players are kept and almost coveted because they are nice fellas and cause no problems, subsequently these same players become lazy and comfortable and don't really give a damn.
Rubbish leadership mantra: Any decent young players at the club are stifled in their development because they won't be given a chance in the 1st team due for fear of upsetting the average lazy buggers.
Rubbish leadership mantra: These young players however do spend enough time around the lazy buggers in training etc and in time toe the party line of "the senior players". It's a never-ending circle of mediocrity and lack of winning mentality.
Rubbish leadership mantra: Good teams have ruthless players who will kick you in training if it means they start on Saturday, managers who don't give a shit why you didn't play well (you are dropped) and the man at the top wants to rub all the other owners' noses in it and not give it a second thought.
Everton are soft, out of date, run by a couple of luvvies who treat your club and it's supporters with contempt. They will sack Koeman because he's a threat to their cosy love-in and not because the football is crap. If you want change, stop going and applauding mediocrity every week – it just encourages them.
Finally, my advice to David Unsworth is to find a club who will appreciate his undoubted talent as a youth coach – don't ever take the first-team job as the bastards will hang you out to dry and let you become a hate figure.
Kenwright and Moshiri Out!!!
195 Posted 16/09/2017 at 09:37:27
196 Posted 16/09/2017 at 10:07:36
The players are not bad players but they are playing appallingly badly at the moment. There is no structure to the team, team selection is poor and Koeman doesn't realise that it is down to him. He's getting more desperate as he sees his chances of ever managing Barcelona fade with every inept performance of his team.
If the club is reluctant to sack him then they should seriously look at changing the first team coaches.
Something has to be done and soon.
197 Posted 16/09/2017 at 12:23:21
198 Posted 16/09/2017 at 13:31:55
Baines overrated all his career?!? What a pile of nonsense. One of the best left-backs we've ever had and I've been supporting them nearly 50 years. Incredible.
199 Posted 16/09/2017 at 14:15:24
200 Posted 16/09/2017 at 16:02:09
201 Posted 16/09/2017 at 16:44:33
I am sure the old guard will put forward World Cup Winner, Ray Wilson, as our best ever left back.
202 Posted 16/09/2017 at 17:24:13
Pat van den Hauwe was a great signing and improved the team; Nuno was signed by Moyes after a tip-off from Jose Mourinho. Mourinho should have kept his mouth shut and Moyes should have had a look at him before he signed him.
You are right about Ray Wilson though.
203 Posted 16/09/2017 at 17:44:29
That said no one holds a candle to the magnificent Ray Wilson — best in the world for a while and streets ahead of Baines who was so dependent on Pienaar.
204 Posted 16/09/2017 at 17:47:43
205 Posted 16/09/2017 at 17:50:22
206 Posted 16/09/2017 at 18:03:10
Baines – very classy
I'm surprised Paul Power hasn't had a mention. We all thought he was finished when he signed, but what a season he had!
207 Posted 16/09/2017 at 18:07:12
208 Posted 16/09/2017 at 18:47:41
The main blame lies with some of the players though as they are not doing the basics they are paid for. They are not running hard, they are being brushed off the ball, they are being out muscled, they are dropping too deep – at one point against Atalanta, Rooney dropped so deep, he only had Keane and the keeper behind him, they are failing to make 10 yard passes.
I don't think the coach should be calling the 'senior players' in – he should call the young fellers in: Lookman, Davies, Holgate, Calvert-Lewin, Vlasic etc – and say ' you are having the next five games show me you deserve to keep the shirt'. Play Holgate at CB, Play Davies as one of a mid field three to bring energy and running, get Lookman and running behind Calvert-Lewin. Get some effort in!!
209 Posted 16/09/2017 at 18:55:30
And I would also add what a disgraceful thing to write 'Coleman dead'.
A bizarre choice of words all through 187 from someone who thinks that he is smart and funny.
210 Posted 16/09/2017 at 19:02:11
How did that happen?
211 Posted 17/09/2017 at 06:16:43
Your comment about Rooney 'will score goals but little else, didn't we say something similar about a certain Mr Lukaku. Goals will do just fine as far as most of us are concerned.
There are other points I would take exception to in your post but those are the main ones apart from your assertion that Calvert-Lewin isn't good enough. Ffs he excelled in the U20 World Cup and has been one of the few bright sparks on the field is far this season .
212 Posted 17/09/2017 at 06:26:35
Hop back under your bridge deep in the forest and await the arrival of the three billy goats gruff.
213 Posted 17/09/2017 at 12:29:11
214 Posted 17/09/2017 at 16:08:40
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