Angry Koeman searching for answers to Everton slump

Thursday 14 September 2017  209 Comments  [Jump to last]
Ronald Koeman once again bemoaned his team's lack of fight and passion as Everton's Europa League group stage campaign got off to an awful start with defeat to Atalanta.

Coming on the heels of the 2-0 defeat at Chelsea and the 3-0 reverse against Tottenham last Saturday, the Blues went down to a 3-0 defeat to the Italian side, conceding three goals by half time and mustering just three shots on target.

It's a far cry from what was expected following massive expenditure on new players over the summer and has Koeman questioning why his team can't match the aggression, spirit and composure on the ball of the opposition.

"[Atalanta] showed more aggression, they showed more passion," Koeman told BT Sport. "And that is really painful, because in my opinion it starts with that and then you need quality on the ball.

"I asked myself what I am doing wrong, about the second half against Tottenham and the first half here. It is not the way I like to see my team. The commitment and the passion, what they showed in the first half was much bigger than what we showed.

"But once again it is not the time and the place to criticise the players. I need to criticise myself because the team was not prepared and that is a question for myself.

"The whole Atalanta team was much better prepared than us. Once again that is the manager.

"We knew from the beginning of July that the start of the season was really tough. We need to accept it. That is not the problem. The problem is what we showed in the first half."

Quotes sourced from FourFourTwo


Reader Comments (209)

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Paul Needham
1 Posted 14/09/2017 at 22:48:50
Has he gone yet?

Admitting they were not ready for the game says it all.

All the fans who travelled where ready to support; all us watching were ready.

Maybe he has had enough and just wants to be put out of his misery!

Anthony Dwyer
2 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:00:23
Does Ronny want the sack or something 🙈
Stan Schofield
3 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:00:54
Angry? How about ashamed?
Paul Hewitt
4 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:01:02
Well fuck off then.
Tony Everan
5 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:15:04
Don't decent managers motivate and create passion?

Or do you have to pay extra for that sort of thing?

Steve Ferns
6 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:16:49
Honest Ron is talking a good game, just as he did after Chelsea and Spurs ...

The problem is the talking needs to stop and we need to see results on the pitch. Losing 3-0 but giving it a good go is a lot easier to take. There has been no positives from the last 3 games, and each defeat is worse than the one that went before.

Tom Harding
7 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:18:13
It's definitely too soon to be calling for Koeman's head but equally there's a lot to be concerned about. There are too many players who are being asked to play in positions that clearly don't bring out the best in them and there doesn't seem to be any kind of team spirit at the moment.

I hoped that Koeman would be more expansive than Moyes but set up teams to defend properly unlike Martinez. So far, we seem to be stuck in second gear not doing the job at either of the pitch convincingly. However, it is still possible, like last season, that we will turn things around and go on a decent run after Man Utd.

If we don't get any momentum at all, however, then we should say goodbye to a manager who clearly has no emotional commitment to the club.

I do hope finally that the fans stay off the backs of Klaassen and Sandro. I think both of them are good players if given time, positive encouragement and a better understanding of the Premier League.

I do also wonder why Rooney is on the team sheet for almost every match? Surely that won't do him or us any good. I'd like to see him chomping at the bit to come on and score after 70 minutes sometimes.

Paul Hewitt
8 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:19:12
I hope Koeman gets a right bollocking tomorrow. To say you weren't prepared if terrible.
Ciarán McGlone
9 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:21:47
Hopefully he's so angry that he drops himself for the next game...
Steve Ferns
10 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:22:45
I believe the thinking with Rooney is to get him super fit. Rooney needs to play every game to be at his best, and that is why he is playing. Once he is 100% fit, then I expect him to start being rested. Thing is, I expected him to be 100% fit already and for fatigue to start creeping in by now.
Tony Everan
11 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:26:47
Problem is I don't see where the goals are coming from for any kind of sustained momentum.

There seems to be a complete lack of formulated attacking threat. No ideas or planned method of attack that is able to be put into action on the pitch.

If we're not scoring goals we are going to lose and draw more often than not. And sneak a few 1-0s against poor sides.

Christy Ring
12 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:26:48
Why would Ronald blame himself, he bought Sigurdsson for £45m + Klaassen £26m + Rooney to replace Barkley, and the One player needed more than anyone else was a No 9 to replace a striker who scored 25 goals last season. Hopefully goodbye.
James Stewart
13 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:44:45
I like Koeman as a person but this was supposed to be a "reaction" performance remember. Shameful performance by a the whole side, which clearly want him sacked. Bar Pickford who wasn't even playing our signings have been awful and a lot of money has criminally wasted.
Doug Harris
14 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:57:21
We have a midfield that is totally devoid of any attacking ideas.

How can any strikers even attempt to try to score when the service isn't there?

Bedtime for me now; I hope Koeman has a very restless night.

Lewis Barclay
15 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:14:03
Our Under-23 team won Premier League 2 last season and 5 of our players featured in the England Under-20s World Cup winning side> I'm fairly sure there was passion and commitment shown by those player in spades, wasn't there?

Yet only one or two of the players who featured in those sides seems to get a look in, in our first team.

Maybe you should grow a pair Ronny and try giving some of the kids a chance, you've not got a lot left to lose, big man!

John Maxwell
16 Posted 14/09/2017 at 00:16:26
The lack of a striker, target man, someone to hold the ball is the problem. There's no outlet for us to push up the pitch.

I don't think you really replace a player like Lukaku. Sandro was purchased but hasn't really settled yet; Calvert-Lewin looks promising but is still young. Rooney is past it.

Costa would've been a game-changer: strong, aggressive. That's the issue.

Koeman won't be sacked, even if we lose to Man Utd.

The decision not to buy a striker was criminal.

Anthony Burke
17 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:16:53
This is Koeman's toughest spell as an Everton manager against tough opposition. I'm behind him 100% and believe he will turn it around once we find the right team/formation.

We have a more comfortable run off fixtures after Man Utd. If we struggle in all of them, then maybe my mind will be changed but, until then, I'm behind Koeman.

Paul O'Neill
18 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:18:33
Let's calm the feck down. #coyb
Declan Martin
19 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:36:41
As poor a performance I have seen since... Chelsea away... Tottenham at home... and the rest of the season so far.

There is no system. There is no game plan. The players are individually good, but there is no team. This is relegation form.

Has Koeman lost the dressing room?

Kase Chow
20 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:41:44
We have been rubbish recently.

It is negligent to start the season without two or three established strikers. We have started the season without one!!!! I literally cannot understand this decision whatsoever. Who on earth within Everton takes the fall for this ridiculous situation?

It shocking

Meanwhile Koeman has wasted the Stones money. Has spent the Lukaku money and has also spent the additional £50M war chest

And somehow we're still without a striker!!!! It beggars belief

Declan Martin
21 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:44:33
Lack of a striker is one thing.
Lack of a system is another.
Rudi Coote
22 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:45:03
So big Ron blames himself eh? Well, Ronny boy, so do the majority of Everton fans.

Pack your bags, man, your Uber is waiting.

Derek Thomas
23 Posted 15/09/2017 at 01:28:00
Deadman walking, deadman walking here, walking The Blue Mile.

George Stuart
24 Posted 15/09/2017 at 02:00:46
Well, it's good that Ronnie takes the blame but now its time to do something about it.

I think I read after Spurs he said we were surprised by their midfield setup and their physicality?

This is the Premier League FFS. They are elite athletes. Of course they can tough it up and its his job to respond to tactical deficiencies in real time, during the game.

Bring back Joe Royle, five across the back!

Phil Sammon
25 Posted 15/09/2017 at 02:33:59
The game kicked off in the wee hours down under so I'm lucky enough to have missed it. I was calling for his head after the Spurs game, but it's actually refreshing to hear the manager acknowledging the issues rather than deluding himself like Martinez did.

The first step is admitting you have a problem. You've bought yourself a few more games in my book, Ronnie. Now get your shit together.

Peter Barry
26 Posted 15/09/2017 at 03:44:08
We blame you too, Ronald, and we want you out now while we still have a chance to salvage some pride.
John Raftery
27 Posted 15/09/2017 at 03:58:01
Back an hour ago after another good day spoiled only by the football.

We plumbed new depths last night. We are not the first club to waste money signing a load of players who have difficulty blending into a team but at present the manager looks clueless and certainly not up tto he job.

Whichever eleven he puts out from our supposedly strong squad looks unbalanced owing partly to the whole squad being unbalanced and partly to his own bone-headed reluctance to play at least one wide player.

For those who think we might start winning when we come up against lesser teams, I would seriously question our ability to beat anyone at the moment without a major transformation of team selection, tactics and attitudes.

Alexander Murphy
28 Posted 15/09/2017 at 04:00:04
"Once we find the right team/formation"
Sadly, Anthony #17, Koeman has been in charge for 15 months and can be fairly said to have built the team. If the team is dysfunctional then there is but one source.

For Koeman to be "surprised" by Spurs and then to say ""I need to criticise myself because the team was not prepared" following the dismal no- show against Atalanta is appalling.

We began last season very poorly prepared. Ronnie had as much time as every Premier League manager to get things ready. Yet his priority was a second holiday in a matter of a couple of weeks. Clearly it had not dawned upon him that he was in the job because things were far less than acceptable, not because Martinez had done a peerless job and was off to bask in glory.

We go into each successive match Ill prepared, with the air of an amateur dramatic society improvisation session hoping "it'll be alright on the night". (Next production ? "Les Miserables").

Koeman has been bloody blunt in public about a number of his players to date. It's now long overdue for him to apply the same critical eye to himself and his performance record.

Giving players who aren't performing a bollocking is one tactic. Just how effective is that when it's your only tactic ? "Losing the dressing room" is one thing, alienating your OWN squad is something else.

I want Koeman to be a bloody successful manager for Everton, at present I'm finding that concept very, very difficult to get my head around.

Our performance this coming Sunday will have much bearing on the matter. Should we get decimated and fail to offer any resistance then the job may be beyond rescue.

Do I want "a taxi for Koeman"? I'm mightily tempted to flag one down.

Kieran Kinsella
29 Posted 15/09/2017 at 04:30:08
We were too reliant on one striker last season. We sold him and we released Kone and Valencia. We didn't replace any of them. That right there is a big problem.
William Cartwright
30 Posted 15/09/2017 at 04:53:43
Tom @ (7); I agree with your comments, but suggesting we might recover by going on a 'run' which could start "after the Man Utd game" sums up the nonsensical mentality of some Evertonians. Why the fuck can't we beat Man Utd and kick on at that point.

Sticking 2 fingers at the media at the same time who are simply loving the drivel that Koeman is delivering every week. I say Koeman because we have one of the strongest squads in the league, and possibly in our history:

In goal:-
Pickford, Stekelenburg, Robles,

In Defence :-
Kenny, Connolly, Robinson, Martina, Keane, Jagielka, Baines, Holgate, Funes Mori, Williams, Browning, Coleman

In Midfield (including the mythical 'No. 10':-
Sigurdsson, Vlasic, Schneiderlin, Walsh, Davis, Gueye, Besic, McCarthy, Dowell, Barkley, Rooney . . .

In Attack :-
Bolasie, Lookman, Calvert-Lewin, Sandro, Lennon, Niasse,

The squad is undermined by injuries (shit happens - that's why we have a squad). It is also undermined by self inflicted absentees; Connolly, Browning, Dowell, etc.

It is also undermined by what most on here, including me, see as highly questionable man and game management the essential ingredients of the team manager.

I am not a religious man, but in my prayers,I am hoping for a proper manager to take charge before it is too late, and I have lost all hope of ever watching Everton walking out at Old Trafford or Anfield and leaving a trail of brown stuff from the changing rooms to the pitch.

John Boon
31 Posted 15/09/2017 at 05:22:15
This is the most clueless Everton team I have ever seen since we lost to Sheffield Wednesday 6-0 on the final day of the season in 1951. On that day, we were relegated with Sheffield Wednesday.

If we keep this up the same can happen again, Atalanta are a very poor team in the Italian League. They needed us to help them recover from a bad start to their own campaign. We are the only English team to lose this week. This is beyond embarrassing.

Clive Thomas
33 Posted 15/09/2017 at 05:43:19
Absolute disgraceful performance.

Ron, you where a great player but sorry, your tactical nouse is non-existent.

I will be surprised if he is around by Xmas

Rob Young
34 Posted 15/09/2017 at 06:18:54
He has to go today.

Absolutely shocking performances this week. We have been poor all season and were never great last year.

John Graham
35 Posted 15/09/2017 at 06:39:50
If there's no passion then put players in the team who will give that passion:

Naisse
Davies
Lookman
Calvert-Lewin
Kenny
Dowell
Connolly
Holgate

Give them the chance to prove that they are good enough

Chris Stone
36 Posted 15/09/2017 at 06:54:55
25/1 on Koeman next to be sacked on BetVictor – maybe worth a fiver before our (probable) to tonking at the hands of Manchester Utd.

I watched last night as I'm sure most of you did. And yes, the one positive was no goals conceded in the 2nd half!

Kenny Smith
37 Posted 15/09/2017 at 06:55:31
He's just trying to take the heat off the players and that's good management.

Saying that, we've fallen desperately short against everyone bar Stoke this season and that's bad management.

I think everyone needs to wait and see how the next 5-6 games pan out before calling for his head. No-one has had fixtures as bad as ours.

Steven Astley
38 Posted 15/09/2017 at 06:57:37
That picture of him sunning it up in Portugal on transfer deadline day is pissing me off even more now.

Perhaps he should have been back at Finch Farm doing some research on Tottenham and Atalanta. Or maybe just maybe finding us a striker, anyone at all. But no, down tools and first sign of an international break and he's jetting it off. He doesn't give a shit about the club and needs to be sacked, today.

By the way, barring one block last night, how shite has Michael Keane been in the last 3 games? Harry Maguire would have been a far better signing.

Andrew McLawrence
39 Posted 15/09/2017 at 06:59:31
We shouldn't kid ourselves, no other team in the premier league or even the top half of the Championship, plays with the same lack of movement, quality, and effort.

Sick to the stomach thinking about a season fighting to get out of the bottom 3 or 4. A pasting on Sunday should be curtains for Ronald Koeman. Something needs to give.

Ian Hollingworth
40 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:00:08
There's a lot wrong. Manager is clearly struggling and looks clueless. Players playing in wrong positions. Lack of quality. Lack of passion and effort. This is the worst to stomach.

The other thing I cannot fathom is why the hell keep changing the team so much. You bought players for certain positions (I hope) so play those players in those positions.

Add to that where is the stadium?

How the hell does so much optimism turn to shit so quickly?

Steven Astley
41 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:03:40
Chris (#36) – you could argue the 2nd half was worse than the 1st. We needed to respond with something and couldn't. The only reason we didn't concede was because they could take their foot off the gas.

Totally unforgivable in my opinion. See their number 10 Gomez have so much time on the ball for the whole game and practically has his hands on his hips whilst in possession was sickening.

Anthony Flack
42 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:04:29
He is heading for Bangor – not Barcelona.
Mike Kehoe
43 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:16:39
Give him a little longer, see where we are in a couple of months and then make a decision. If the team still playing like this ,the season will be over with only FA Cup left.

Does anyone harbour any serious thoughts of challenging for Champions League place?? One the major problems appears to be an incredible absence of passion and belief, which may be a reflection of Koeman's monotone style.

I personally have had enough of continental managers with a vision for football that transcends our cognitive abilities and elevates them to a position were they are infallible and when results and performances are inexplicably shocking that is because of deeper, more complex issues than the seemingly fucking obvious failings that trouble our tiny little minds.

Well fuck that. If this continues get shut but rather than looking for another continental genius let's give Unsworth a go and give the kids a chance, look at assessing the talent that is here already and go forward from there.

One thing would be for sure, the players would be motivated, organised and I would hope more committed to a manager who cares.

Colin Glassar
45 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:27:20
I'd give Koeman until the end of October. If we continue down this path of useless, clueless, senseless football then we still have plenty of time to replace him and save whatever is left of our season.

Unsie and Big Joe could take over until the summer and depending on how they perform we could either appoint them on a permanent basis or get Ancellotti in.

I'm really disappointed in Koeman. I thought he was a top manager but the guy looks even more lost than Roberto in his final days.

Jim Bennings
46 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:27:38
Well that was utterly appalling, wasn't it?

I honestly didn't think I'd see another shambolic performance to rival the Spurs game, but little did I expect (or maybe I should have totally expected it) that would be all we could muster.

The first thing Joe Royle did when he walked through the door was he made certain that his team was 110% motivated every time it set foot on the pitch. David Moyes did something similar, he stumbled upon a formation that made us hard to beat and at least it worked.

Martinez dared us to dream in that first season and at least had the guts to introduce a new fearless mentality and tried playing the best sides in the league toe to toe, doing a double over Manchester United, and securing a record points haul.

But the 16 months that Koeman has been here, let's be honest, it's been pretty dour stuff and I'm convinced to this day the only reason we were strong at home killing teams off was down to Lukaku's goals, four against Bournemouth, a example.

Koeman has seriously disappointed me, he puts a team out that just lacks anything, no cohesion, no pattern, no presence and absolutely zero pace, no backbone, we are spineless.

The form at the end of last season was dismal, remember how bad the Anfield derby was or the dour draw at West Ham (no shots on target again!)

We were thrashed by 10-man Arsenal, lost at Swansea its just a continuation from April and May.

He ballsed up in summer, no striker to replace our 25 goals talisman not even a half decent short term replacement until January (please don't give me Sandro).

He allowed a pacy creative winger to go in Gerard Deulofeu, without having a clue who was going to play on the wing. "Oh sod it," says Ronny "I'll just put a central midfielder there"!!

No matter how much we go on about Dominic Calvert-Lewin "going to be some player" I'm afraid that is not going to be for a few season's, he works hard but rarely looks like scoring.

Rooney still looks like he has the brain but the legs don't allow it anymore.

Schneiderlin and Klaassen a combined £48 million??? What a waste on money, could have been used much much better!

All-in-all, it looks very very bleak and I think Koeman is digging himself a hole he's going to struggle to get out of. Once you start to lose the fans' support and faith in you, it usually only ends in one way.

Nitesh Kanchan
47 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:29:24
Just as I expected, still clueless as to what went wrong. He still hasn't found it out since Chelsea game.

Even Hughes said it openly Arsenal have plenty of weaknesses before the game and then he beats them, same against Man Utd, he said they have certain loose areas, and he exploited them. But our manager is still clueless about tactics, passion and aggression. At least teams have pity on us after taking 3-0 leads.

Man Utd are not that strong as they are made out to be. Even Basel and Leicester were having free runs behind their defence and in attack, everything is going through Mkhitaryan. If Gana can mark out Mkhitaryan, we can easily get at least a point, depending on if Koeman has learnt his lessons. We need Niasse, Lookman and Vlasic or Mirallas here to exploit their defense.

Joe Foster
48 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:32:40
This is all very worrying. The team and the manager look clueless. This is possibly some of the worst football I have ever seen any team play.
Kevin Moorcroft
49 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:33:17
What rubbish last night. Specially Europe as well as on TV. This lot couldn't organise a piss up in a fucking Brewery by the looks of it.

We've no organization, flair, effort or determination. Management are poor. I know things can improve in any situation but this lot are dreadful – players as well. I didn't know why we got Walsh anyway – too many cooks! I could have done better

Play Unsworth's boys – he's a true Evertonian, and fuck these others off ASAP. You don't like spending money Bill so lets start saving some!!!

Dermot Byrne
50 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:35:42
Sack him now

He will never come back from this.

May apply myself

Kenny Smith
51 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:37:44
Worth a read:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.metro.news/final-third-post-lukaku-everton-have-the-look-of-spurs-after-selling-bale/745764/amp/

Mike Allison
52 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:44:31
I don't understand the angry reactions to Koeman's comments. He's taking responsibility rather than shirking it, which is the right thing to do. If he was making excuses or pretending things were okay (a la Moyes and Martinez) then he'd be slagged off for that (and rightly so).

The posters venting on here, in some cases the same ones who slagged off Moyes for making excuses and Martinez for being in denial, have shown that they will simply express anger whatever the manager says, so why bother pretending your anger is because of the comments? You're angry because of the performance, fair enough, we all are, don't deliberately make an effort to stretch that anger further than it should go.

The club is in trouble, with rightful question marks over the manager. Blind rage and panicked hysteria are not the answer.

Paul Wyndham
53 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:45:13
Please do not say give him more time and if he doesn't turn it around then sack him. We are in a crisis,the headless chickens have come home to roost. This is going to be a relegation battle and with Koeman's team selection and tactics we can not defend and do not create any opportunities to score. It is a recipe for disaster.

He must be removed ASAP a replacement found and all the players he has ostracised must be brought back into the fold. If he stays we will continue to look like a disorganised heartless rabble and will be playing championship football next season.

Will Mabon
54 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:45:31
" I personally have had enough of continental managers with a vision for football that transcends our cognitive abilities and elevates them to a position were they are infallible and when results and performances are inexplicably shocking that is because of deeper, more complex issues than the seemingly fucking obvious failings that trouble our tiny little minds:"

Mike, well observed. Right there is about the perfect summary of the modern bullshitter (mostly called "Leader") that exists somewhere in most areas of life now, never mind football. It's been growing exponentially for about 25 years, and they're all learning fast from each other...

Eddie Dunn
55 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:53:30
We are in serious trouble. If we had played our first few games against "lesser" opposition, the manager would now be under intense pressure. I honestly think that currently we will struggle come the relatively easy fixtures against Sunderland and Bournemouth.

Atalanta looked like world -beaters last night because our team were unmotivated, without confidence and playing like a bunch of strangers. This malaise has been apparent all season.

Is there discontent in the squad? Is Koeman's management style upsetting the team's morale? I could go through the individuals who made mistakes, bad passes, poor concentration etc, but the problem is the whole team... there is a bad feel to it.

Players are unhappy, perhaps they are all as non-plussed as the rest of us that no replacement was found for Lukaku.

A drubbing at Old Trafford won't get Koeman the sack. Man Utd are candidates for the Title, and will hammer most visitors, but yet another display of this nature will hit the confidence even more and it will inevitably put more pressure on when we play someone we expect to beat. Lukaku will obviously score and make it an even harder pill to swallow.

I think we have seen that when Koeman faces a team he fears, he sets us up to defend in numbers. Either his tactics or the players fail to work on most occasions (Man City being an exception), this has happened numerous times.

His efforts are simply not good enough. We are failing to get the results and failing to play decent football. I can't see us turning it round on Sunday.

Will Mabon
56 Posted 15/09/2017 at 07:59:22
Mike @ 52:

I rather think it's what he said and how it came across, than it being a reasonable acceptance of responsibility. Even allowing for him speaking English secondarily, he essentially painted himself as having not done his job, as opposed to making a mistake or error of judgement.

Rather stark to see the contrast to his usual style of either overtly or subtly redirecting the blame.

Steve Barnes
57 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:08:26
I'm no Koeman acolyte, but does he really tell the team to consistently pass backwards, sideways, lose possession, pick a none existent pass, stand still, not close down, lose control of the ball, have no vision, not run into space and to look like a second rate set of useless, embarrassing, incompetent Sunday League players (no offence to Sunday Leagues intended).

I know that he's paid to set them up and to direct them, but for goodness sake, to a man they were awful on the pitch yesterday.

No one up front is hurting us, but it can't be the only reason we were so abysmal. We've shown shadows of this sort of play many times before, especially when we play one of the 'top teams' and the red lot across the Park as well.

He was begging them to get him someone to replace Rom and they didn't. He deflecting criticism away from the players by blaming himself. Is he the right man? Hope so, if for no other reason than it will hack the media off.

Liam Reilly
58 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:13:13
God awful.

There's no pace in the side, no width and no runners off the ball.

Regardless of who buys the players and lack of striker this is Koeman's fault.

Dreading Sunday.

Colin Glassar
59 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:18:13
Was he begging them to replace Lukaku, Steve? So much so that he decided to go and play golf in Portugal on TDD? That's a funny way to show his concern over a lack of signing a centre forward imo.

Koeman is fortunate that today's media is more focussed on the German invasion of London, the Korean crisis and the latest hurricanes etc Otherwise, we would be laughed at as "poor little Everton" who've been put firmly in their place after having dreamt of challenging for a top 6 spot.

Trevor Peers
60 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:20:15
Koeman will be gone soon, is the only conclusion that can be taken from our shambolic start to the season.

What worries me is that whoever takes over will have a hell of a job getting results with the squad we have available.

The only thing that will be attractive is the manager's salary.

John G Davies
61 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:22:25
Two things can happen when a manager challenges a squads bottle. The squad responds with teeth bared ready for a fight. Or they can throw their hand in. It's obvious which one has happened here.

More importantly, there is no pattern of play. I posted with two weeks left in the window, if he didn't buy a centre-forward, a left-sided centre back and a wide left player with pace we would have an unbalanced squad. We undoubtedly have an unbalanced squad.

Paul A Smith
62 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:24:01
I expect a few fans to say we done okay towards the end because some don't like total criticism whereas others choose to be ruthless. When the manager mentions this irrelevant point, I am worried. He talked about the reaction later on. I mean, is he kidding?

Anyone partly sighted with one brain cell knows Atalanta dropped a couple of gears and the game was sewn up, allowing them to defend comfortably without taking any further risks. That's the measure of a real team. Their not great? their not poor they just do the fundamental side of football like a team.

Surprised by Tottenham's midfield, not prepared for Atalanta. My word – when does proffessionalism come into the season.

Anthony, how can a run of decent fixtures make you back the manager? This simply means another season of not beating the beat enough and finishing where Everton usually finish.

Tony Marsh
63 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:24:57
Moshiri won't help here as he put Koeman in charge. Moshiri is as clueless as Kenwright and every much a Gobshite. Things have become worse at the club since we got ourselves a billionaire owner, ha ha !!

Some of our fans need a reality check also. They believe what ever shit they are fed by the club. Lukaku was sold to create the illusion we were spending money. This was the catalyst for the disaster we are now suffering.

Koeman must go – that's a given but our fan base is so gullible. There is no money at the club. There is no new stadium coming. Moshiri is in bed with Kenwright .

Nothing will be done regarding Koeman we don't have money to pay him off. The dressing room is lost already so guess what – we are truly fucked.

Unsworth must come in if not Allardyce for the sole reason that he is an expert at saving teams from the drop. Whether you like it or not that is what we face tight now relegation. Believe it and wake the fuck up. This is as bad as Moyes in his second season.

Were the fuck is Peter Johnson when you need him.

Steve Solomon
64 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:29:31
If you think about it, the tactics he is using are slow and meticulous, which works in La Liga, but certainly not in the Premier league.

A ridiculous number of attacking midfielders and a few defensive midfielders is okay if you attack quickly, but we don't, so that leaves 2 midfielders and 2 defenders left to defend the middle. No-one left to defend the flanks. You see the problem?

We're playing a counter-attacking game but we're too slow. We haven't scored in 3 full games and have leaked way too many. There doesn't even seem to be a plan B.

Surely Koeman is better than this? IMO the only good buys were Pickford, Keane, Rooney and ummmm wait... it'll come to me... uh...

Laurie Hartley
65 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:30:05
Will # 54 - nail on head.

It's been growing exponentially for about 25 years, and they're all learning fast from each other...

What baffles me is that the heirarchy more often than not swallow it.

Paul Tran
66 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:31:36
Steve (#57) and others. Koeman doesn't want the players to play like strangers with their legs tied together. He wants to play a fast, pressing game, with players moving the ball quickly.

Problem is, he clearly is unable to get his instructions across to the players.

I've said it before and will say it again, that's what'll finish him. You can be tough as nails, but if you can't communicate with your staff, you're heading for trouble.

Unsworth now, Ancelotti in the summer for me.

Paul A Smith
67 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:38:13
Paul (#66),

I think that's definitely a fraction of the issue but more in the fact his instructions are grim, surely between the whole coaching staff the instructions should surely be clear before the game?

He has a bunch of coaches to deliver instructions. No way can this solely be communication. Or maybe Southampton players find broken English easier to fathom? I just think the instructions are outdated, sluggish and cautious.

Eddie Dunn
68 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:38:19
Trevor, this was the case with Martinez. We could all see what was happening but it takes the club months and months to decide to do something. By the time that they decide to act, we will be in a worse position and a new incumbent will have one hell of a job on his hands.

I had high hopes for Ronnie, and liked his frankness after the bullshitter had worn me down. However, things look wrong at the club. The Lukaku deal, the lack of replacement, the Barkley saga, Rooney's return (and driving offence), the new contract for Mirallas (then the attempt to sell him), the signing of Lookman(then getting the worst out of him). I suspect (just my own bit of conjecture) that the relationships between the main men, Koeman, Walsh, Moshiri & Kenwright, is stretched to breaking point.

The players are confused. The systems on the pitch are failing and the players have no faith in them. We saw the same happen at Chelsea under Morinho. The regular blame game has sapped the individuals of confidence. These things can spiral out of control if not corrected.

Koeman needs to get the senior players together and sort it out. They are all capable of much better regardless of the tactical shape on the park. If Ron can't get them to perform – he should resign.

Mike Hughes
69 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:45:36
The board took an age to sack Martinez when it was patently obvious to everyone that he was useless a good 6-9 months before that decision. (Edit – sorry Eddie. I appear to have made a similar comment to you. Pure coincidence.)

Given Koeman has been backed with funds, I can't see the board acting any time soon.

We appear to have gone from a bullshit merchant to an overweight sloth.

From what I can see, Koeman is hardly brimming with passion, enthusiasm and inspiration is he? Very worrying.

Mike Berry
70 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:49:01
It really makes me ask "What are they doing in training?" because no one seems to have a clue about their roles and position, no one is offering themselves for the ball.

We can't seem to defend, make a pass and we seem set up to defend which we cant and not to score.

Added to buying three number 10's with no centre forward and inadequate cover at the back makes you wonder about how much money we have wasted on the first team. We could be in for a hiding on Sunday, Lukaku hat-trick price?

Teddy Bertin
71 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:56:33
Those saying he should be sacked for admitting we were unprepared are wrong. He wasn't saying we didn't prepare, he was saying he needs to look at himself because the preparation that they did was the wrong preparation.

Like he said on BT Sports, they watched 7 or 8 videos of Gomez cutting in and shooting on his right foot yet the players seemed to be unaware that it was a potential danger.

Has he lost the dressing room? I don't think so. Are the players confused about what they should be doing, what their roles are and what the side is good at? 100%.

West Brom and Burnley would have got a result last night. I'm not saying definitely a win but that was a mid-table Italian side. We made them look like Real Madrid. Last time I saw a performance so devoid of ideas, passion, shape, commitment was in the woeful Walter Smith years.

With all those captains in the squad I can't believe that we look like we have no leaders. think he needs to give Rooney the armband because basically everyone is looking to him for how the side should play and he's not saying much because he's not the captain. He's the superstar, he was England captain, he's an Evertonian and he's the player with the most influence on the pitch.

How can our captain be a quiet man who can't get into the team when we have a man who only a few months ago was captain of England and Man Utd.

I'd start there if I was Koeman. First mistake he made this season.

Paul A Smith
72 Posted 15/09/2017 at 08:59:24
Eddie (#68). This is how the club work mate. That board does not see Everton in the same light as you and me. After 23 years of not missing a home game, I am spewing Wednesday.

To give so much time to this club and still see us where we are today, talking the same old talk, is nothing short of shameful. Kenwright would still have Martinez. Moshiri said McCarthy was family because he didn't want to spend more money last summer.

They don't have the passion for success that you have. They want a steady business where their investment grows and grows. Remember Stallone revealed he was gutted he never invested. He knows there is profit in the game now just like Moshiri knows.

Fans add to the nonsense. Saying Keane looks class after Rozemberok. What a brave quote that is.

Everything is wrong, mate, and a summer that could have been the start of a great plan looks set back even further now.

Mat Smith
73 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:00:04
Only kind of positive I could take from last night was in the second half Vlasic showed a few glimpses of being a decent player.

Koeman either needs to go or start playing a balanced team with players in there right positions.

Ian Jones
74 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:01:33
So, with Moyes and Martinez, I could see what they were trying to do, the style of play etc, even if it was not always successful or great to watch.

You know what to expect with certain teams-possession based, long-ball, counter attacking etc.

With Koeman, I have no idea what his plan is at the moment. I don't get to see many games live, only on TV, and feel sorry for those that do. I was at Goodison for the friendly against Seville. For the first 30 seconds, we looked good...

As some on here have said, Koeman can't be held responsible for the inability to pass to someone in the same team. In the second half, Rooney tried a few long-distance crossfield passes that were easily cut out, setting up the other team on the attack and then casually jogged back to help the defence instead of getting back to help sort out the mess he had created.

We have had a few moments in the past. This could be our Wigan moment...it could soon be Koeman's.

Next up Man Utd. Usually I would suggest a draw would be good, but I think we should go all out on Sunday. We usually do reasonably well against Mourinho's teams. He will know what to expect, so let's do the unexpected and surprise him, just as Koeman was surprised by Spurs tactics...


Geoff Evans
75 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:02:27
Look in the mirror!
Tony Hill
76 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:06:34
Teddy, I think that's the only possible way back for the team and Koeman. If there's to be a revival then there must be one of those famous "clear the air" meetings and the senior players have to sort things out with the coaches.

I think Koeman did lose the players last season after a reasonable start and then he got them back, at least for a fair while. I think he's lost them again for whatever reason.

He has very little time and I don't think he can do it, but it's his only chance.

The other thing that is so concerning is our lack of fitness. We just don't look like professional athletes. Is that because of confidence or are the players just not set up right? When basics like that are wrong, then you have trouble.

Christian Watson
77 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:07:09
Koeman's comments are in my opinion, alarming!! After Spurs he said he was 'surprised' about Spurs' set up and physicality. After last night's horror show (which, let's be honest could easily have been 6-0, he says they weren't prepared. I know it's a cliche but 'Fail to prepare, you prepare to fail'. Absolute disgrace.

The talent he leaves out is staggering (Lookman, Davies etc). I cannot understand his rationale or comments. Man Utd will doubtless stick another 3 or more passed us on Sunday... with you know who bagging the match ball!!

Christy Ring
78 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:07:21
We haven't scored in the last 3 games; last night, their keeper didn't have a save to make, how bad is that. The team has no shape whatsoever, we can't even pass the ball. Our back four and midfield are so deep, they're in our keeper's way!

Koeman's signings,and lack of signings have been abysmal. We are totally lacking a left sided centre-back. Baines was poor again last night, as was everyone else, but we have no left back to replace him. As Carragher says, why spend £45m on a player we don't need, and not replace Lukaku??
Klaassen came on last night, did he even touch the ball?

We're in a relegation battle already, because we're conceding goals, and we have no striker at the other end to score. He has to go.

Denis Richardson
79 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:23:15
Just transferred Keane out of my fantasy football side.

Something seriously wrong behind the scenes.

Rob Young
80 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:24:13
Christy, very true with regards to his signings.

Sigurdsson was a great player at Swansea and he's been absolutely useless the last few games. Rooney – terrible. Sandro and Klaassen, for both I had high hopes, should be nowhere near the first team at the moment.

Furthermore, Jagielka and Baines need to be replaced soon.
Schneiderlin too, he's been terrible.

Craig Walker
81 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:25:24
Davy Klaassen could be the next Claus Thomsen. Sigurdsson could be the next Alexandersson. It's back to the days of Walter Smith's side getting hammered by Middlesbrough. Depressing!
Peter Hughes
82 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:29:58
I wouldn't be surprised if Man Utd gave De Gea the Sunday off!
Dave Abrahams
83 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:33:59
Well, Mr Koeman, you can start by having a look at the team and players you are selecting.

Schneiderlin has played every game, except the one he was banned for, and he hasn't had a good game in any of them. You have tried three players at right back, Holgate, Davies and Martina, none of them have impressed while a young lad who has had a great 12 months for the U23s and England U20s hasn't had a minute on the pitch.

Go through the rest of the players and team selections with your coaching team. Between the lot of you, you might be able to get a nucleus of players who will go out and play with grit, determination and fuckin' pride plus some skill to represent the club.

Something is very wrong and if you and your coaching staff don't sort it out soon, you will all be gone.

James Morgan
84 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:34:42
What can I say that's not already been said about last night? Atrocious? Abysmal?

We were so disjointed it was pathetic! Clear negligence of duty from the board in not bringing in a striker and centre-half and boy does it show!

We know we are likely to get spanked on Sunday so let's just go for it. I'd sooner get beat 4-2 having a go than another 3-0. My team:

Pickford
Holgate Jagielka Keane Baines
Mirallas Davies Gueye Lookman
Rooney Calvert-Lewin

Sam Hoare
85 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:35:11
Their third goal last night was truly abysmal. To start it, we have the ball in their final third, with relatively little pressure on Calvert-Lewin who plays a simple enough ball across to Schneiderlin who then inexplicably decides to 'dummy' it for Besic who is behind him but has not read it.

Happily (or not) Jagielka is there and he plays an awful first time pass across the pitch presumably meant for Baines that goes straight to their player who plays a first time long ball forward in behind where Baines and Jagielka might have been to their forward. Then suddenly they are breaking with men and yet Jagielka and Keane both go towards this forward who is currently out wide unable to do much.

Bizarrely, they both stand off him (Jags a few yards off and Keane in the middle of nowhere about 10 yards off – no idea what he's thinking here) and just allow him all the time and space in the world to pick a pass to a midfield runner (not tracked properly by Besic) who waltzes in to the enormous space that Keane has left open to score.

'Amateur' does not do it justice. Missed passes, terrible communication and poor organisation/panic at the back. I hope Koeman is angry because I am furious.

I would almost feel bad handing this mess over to another manager, especially someone like Unsworth taking his first step up. The players are in no way faultless and individual performances have been very poor. Schneiderlin in particular is looking like a criminal waste of money of £25m. Surely he's capable of better.

Throwing the kids in is not the answer and I'd be worried what longtime damage putting the likes of Lookman, Kenny and Davies into this crumbling regime could do. It's up to Koeman and his senior (very expensive and well paid) players to get back to the basics, put in some very hard work, and show us that they give a shit.

Brian Porter
86 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:38:20
How does he justify criticising the players for a lack of passion, when he is the most passionless cold fish of a manager I can recall in 59 years of supporting Everton? Watching him on the touchline is like watching a gargoyle placed there to give the impression there is a manager present in the ground.

I would be interested in being a fly on the wall during his half time team talk. Does he just stand there berating those who have failed to implement his nonsensical tactical plan, or does he praise those who have shown some effort and does he get animated and encouraging before sending them out for the second half.

One thing's for sure. If all he does is castigate the team for its failings without offering some encouragement of how to go out and try to put things right, it's not difficult to imagine just how quickly he could have lost the dressing room.

The man seems to be an expert demotivator, when we need someone to rouse the team to achieve a winning mentality. Koeman is most definitely not the manager we need and deserve. Get rid now, and give a new manager a remit to install some self-respect into our completely demoralised squad.

Colin McBride
87 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:41:37
Koeman's comments were an indirect slur on the players, it was his Dutch way of saying they were not prepared, not that he didn't prepare them.

He stated that he showed them a video of Gomez, coming in from the left 8 times and bang, yet looked what happened and it was Vlasic that allowed it. If that's not preparing them then I don't know what is.

The simple fact is that he has bought players that are not up to it, Vlasic, Klaassen, Keane and even Sigurdsson and Rooney. Keane looked very sloppy and unsure in the replays; Rooney's head is elsewhere and should be nowhere near a pitch.

The fact that they are playing a system that isn't working and we have some players that are obviously past it in Baines, Jagielka and Williams just compounds the issues. Holgate is not a full back and is poor going forward, Davies looks like he has lost the mojo he had last year.

There is no quick fix to this and playing 11 youngsters with no experience is not the answer. I have to say, I have supported Everton for 40 years and, bar one season in 1990-91 when I lost my stomach for it, I haven't been this disheartened in that the whole time I supported them.

Last night was brutal and embarrassing and with this squad and this manager I can't see any real hope of a top half finish this season. Getting rid of the manager without the ability to to change the unbalanced squad with no recognized striker is futile and yet, its what appears to be what is required to start again.

Tony Waring
88 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:41:47
Koeman has a lot to answer for but the unpalatable truth is the players have failed to live up to expectations. They seem unable to do the simplest things, like passing to one of their team mates, let alone score a goal.

They are professional, well paid athletes and they ain't performing. They need a rollicking and Rooney should be captain. He looks more like a footballer – albeit with weakening legs – than anyone else.

Jon Withey
89 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:52:00
Not sure what to say – perhaps Pickford and Sigurdsson have brought their relegation form with them! Worst team since Martinez's end days and less likely to score a goal.

Of course I'm not happy with Koeman but some of the performances of the players are absolute garbage.

I'd rather see the kids play and lose with some passion than throw money at that lot.

Michael Lynch
90 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:52:45
I think all Koeman's talk of passion and aggression hides the fact that we have a pile of useless shite in the team and a manager who is incapable of organising that pile of useless shite into a team that can compete to an acceptable standard.

Not sure what the solution is, but I might start by giving Mirallas a game. At least he has pace and directness. I'd also put Davies back into the team – he might still be learning but he gives the team a heart.

Gary Hughes
91 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:53:07
The muppet that is Alan Brazil on TalkSport said about 2 hours ago that Evertonians are gonna get some bad news but at that point he couldn't say anymore. Has anyone any information about what it could be? I'm thinking maybe stadium news.
David Graves
92 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:55:46
Wouldn't worry about it Gary. He's about as informed and "in the know" as Jim White.
Tony Everan
93 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:57:42
John (#16), exactly right.

Lack of a striker to hold the ball up and release pressure on the midfield is No 1 factor in our demise. Amongst others.

Look at the teams immediately above us in the league last year. Look at their striking options, then ask how are we going to gain ground?

It's not just one striker – we need it is at least two, it is going to be an almighty uphill struggle until we address it.

In the meantime, play Rooney as an outright centre-forward, he has the best chance of retaining possession. And give Lennon a chance to include some pace into the team.

Barry Pearce
94 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:59:45
It's the same comments over and over, not enough passion not enough aggression. Well that tells me the players aren't capable, or not listening, or both.

Alan J Thompson
95 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:03:57
Here's a start, Ron. Stop asking yourself and ask someone who might know.
Robert Leigh
96 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:07:23
I know he won't go – but I am now in the "Koeman needs to be seriously looked at" camp...

Give him til December after some easier fixtures, and if we are bottom-half, there is no way he should survive and get another Transfer Window.

Marco Silva did great things at Hull and is doing the same at Watford – I would like him in the dugout if it was up to me.

Derek Knox
97 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:13:42
I just can't believe how poor we have become, and after spending, or should I say overspending on very average players.
Paul Kennedy
98 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:16:37
We have reached a new low this season after being told pre-season we needed to let the players gel. Then we watch turgid no heart displays and listen to the bleating of our manager blaming everyone but himself until last night.

The answer is so easy – put some effort into the game and we might stand a chance. When are Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Sandro going to turn up for a game? And I am sorry but Besic is not good enough.

Koeman most definitely is not up to the job remove now before we do more damage to this dreadful season

Steve Solomon
99 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:17:23
Robert @96, I'd like to see David Wagner in our dugout. Now is a good time to poach him.

Having said that, I'd say give Koeman a run until the beginning of December. Maybe his plan will take shape?

John Smith
100 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:19:26
Some of you might laugh at this, but when you play computer games, they sometimes give you in game tips.

One of the tips in football manager goes something like this – "Don't play too many midfield playmakers, as they won't know who is in charge and neither will the rest your confused team."


Steve Ferns
101 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:21:04
Sure, the players need to take their share of the blame for what has happened this season. But this is also Koeman's fault.

He ripped apart a settled side since he came in. He shipped everyone out. The only first team player left right now is Baines, and to an extent Jagielka. Everyone else is gone, bar Coleman who is injured. So the fact that the players are incapable of following instructions is down to him. He selected these players.

I would agree that the players are not executing his tactics. The same way that the players were not executing Martinez's tactics. There is some similarities here.

Martinez wanted his teams to play a passing based game as we all know. But people on here seemed to think that Martinez wanted his team to just pass it around the back, and take a slow laboured approach. This is incorrect. Martinez wanted it played on the deck, but he wanted fast passing. That is what he coached.

In the first season you saw McCarthy and Barry linking well and moving the ball quickly to Barkley, Deulofeu and Lukaku. After McCarthy started to get injury after injury and lost his sparkle, and Barry started to fade as well, we saw the ball being moved slowly.

This is what is happening now. When we win the ball, we take too long to get the ball moving forwards. That was not what Martinez coached and it is definitely not what Koeman coached. Both want the ball moving quickly. But Martinez wanted ball retention whereas Koeman is happy for long passes.

So what's going on here? It's down to the players. Schneiderlin is not playing well. But I would ask you to note that Gueye is also not playing well. They will be playing well if you see them link up better together. Last night, we saw Besic and Schneiderlin play together and they did not link up at all. Besic lacks any qualities of a top class midfielder. He's too slow, too unaware of where he is meant to be, and seems to always be out of position.

Vlasic made his debut and had a nightmare. but the whole side was appalling from back to front, Stekelenburg excepted.

According to Jose Mourinho, modern football is all about the transitions. That is what I was writing about just before. How quickly we can get the ball moving from the time the ball is won. We are taking too long in these transitions and it is the problem we had for the last two years under Martinez and at times under Moyes. But even the master, Mourinho himself, had issues with the transitions in his dreadful time at Chelsea leading up to his sacking. All of his problems came from the players not transitioning well.

So what is causing the players to do this? Why do they hit pointless square passes to lose all momentum? Why do they ignore the team plan and coaching? I think it comes down to the following:

- Confidence – the team now seemed shot on confidence
- Familiarity – there's been too many players brought in and they don't know each other
- Laziness – just do the easy thing
- Shirking responsibility – make someone else responsible
- Self-preservation – player can keep his own personal stats up and say that he didn't have a bad game look at his 100% passing ratio
- Dislike of the manager – not wanting to play for him
- Lack of belief in teammates

Koeman needs to take action and he needs to sort it out on Wednesday with an experimental side made up of first team players to get them confident.

Rob Young
102 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:22:56
@ Steve,

What plan would that be? Seriously, do you have any idea what system, shape he wants to play?

John Hammond
103 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:24:02
Tony (#93),

Playing Rooney as an outright forward doesn't work. He just drifts into the Number 10 position and we end up with two Number 10's. He needs to be out of the team and Sandro the forward like he was at Malaga.

Rooney is not the answer and never should have been. As soon as he went off last night, look how we started pressing. It was too little too late but it was happening. I genuinely believe Rooney is part of the problem. Koeman keeps picking him though.

Brendan Fox
104 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:25:28
Answer = P45 for Koeman.
Charles Brewer
105 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:26:52
The truth is, Koeman has done huge damage to the club and him staying will only do more.

He has alienated something like half the playing staff, and bought in crap players, presumably for huge wages, and appears to have absolutely no understanding that there are different roles in a football team. Playing 11 goalkeepers would not result in fewer goals being shipped, so playing with 4 or 5 No 10s, 3 or 4 defensive midfielders, and centre backs at right back is unlikely to have a good result.

It is perfectly clear that not only is the team that starts the game completely unbalanced, it is thoroughly demotivated and confused. Even at the end of Martinez's period in charge we had some talented players who could score a few goals or at least threaten defences (Lukaku, Deulofeu, Barkley).

If I were Mourhino I'd be thinking about putting just a couple at the back and going for full on attack and seeing if I could get the highest ever score in the Premier League (it's 9-0, and was Man Utd vs Ipswich). If the standard is like last night, 10 or 12 should be easy.

Jeff Armstrong
106 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:27:52
Thomas Tuchel is available, the club should at least approach him and sound him out. He may not be interested but the club need to try.

Koeman is completely useless, he has no motivational skills, this has been going on for the last 20 games and the performances are getting worse. How long do we wait? Especially as there's an excellent, proven man out there without a job!

Steve Solomon
107 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:28:22
Rob,

No idea, but there has to be one. To me, the plan seemed to be to replace a 25-goal player with 7 or 8, 8- to 12-goal players. However, a striker that can hold up the ball is crucial if that was the plan.

Seemed like a good idea at the time, but they haven't gelled (yet?) and no big striker scotches everything.

Craig Walker
108 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:28:40
Gary @91 – if it is stadium news then that's me done with Everton FC. It's the one tiny bit of positivity that is keeping me an Evertonian along with our history. We are truly a laughing stock. Again.

Martin Nicholls
109 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:29:09
Mike (#52) – what exactly does "taking responsibility" mean? If it was followed for example by resignation or an offer to refund costs of travelling fans out of his hugely inflated salary then it might have some meaning. If however "acceptance of responsibility" has no consequences, then it's empty words.
Alan McGuffog
110 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:29:34
Gary, when do Evertonians ever get good news?
Chris Gould
111 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:35:54
John (#103).

Agreed, but is Koeman allowed to drop Rooney?

It's clear that Klaassen and Sigurdsson were his buys, so why buy Rooney? I think it's clear that Rooney was lined up to return long before Koeman arrived, and Koeman was made aware of this. Of course he was going to say that we wanted him. What choice did he have?

If we had managed to buy a striker at the end of the window, then where would Rooney have played? Is this why Kenwright refused to sanction one coming in? Rooney is Kenwright's buy and has been promised starts. It stinks.

Not to say that I don't think Rooney has qualities, but he doesn't fit into this team. Sigurdsson needs to play the role he excels in. Klaassen needs to be given an opportunity to really find his feet, and Sandro was the only player who really looked like he gave a shit last night.

We need to shake things up. Is Rooney droppable? It seems to me that he has been promised starts. Maybe it's in his contract. It's a mistake and it stinks.

John Roberts
112 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:36:31
Steve @107

Totally agree ! How the management whoever it was let the window pass without getting a striker in, hold-up type or some Premier League pedigree (Giroud ideal) needs shooting. Suicide thinking we could manage without.

After watching our first two Europa League games it was so so evident we had no threat going forward against weak opposition, there was time to react but no. We are screwed now until at least January. Totally gutted!

John Smith
113 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:45:48
To those saying Koeman didn't play a wide man vs Atalanta. Nikola Vlasic started. I'm pretty certain he is winger.
Liam Reilly
114 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:49:53
I see Captain Jag's is out on the OS telling us how the players are devastated that they let the fans down.

"They have been tough games..."
Really? Maybe the Premier League games were but this was hardly Mission Fucking Impossible.

"In the second half we put on a little bit of a better performance but even then, we probably saved ourselves from being embarrassed."

No you didn't; you are all an embarrassment and In sure you don't feel half as bad as us supporters do, having to listen to all the shite from the RS supporters in work.

Paul Kelly
115 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:51:24
You're right, Steve Solomon, I'd give Koeman a run until the beginning of December too, he might make Vladivostok by then, if he keeps a steady pace that is.
Jason Bowen
116 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:53:08
Koeman out, asap!
Rob Halligan
117 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:00:38
So Jags is saying on the official website that he feels for the travelling fans last night.

"I massively feel for the supporters. I went over to clap them at the end, which wasn't nice to do. They have spent a lot of time and money to get here".

I went on the clubs official package day trip, at a cost of £400. There were 151 passengers on the flight, including two Thomas Cook representatives, and 4 Everton stewards. Assuming those 6 people didn't pay, that left 145 paying passengers x £400 = £58,000 to charter the aircraft and coach transfer.

£58,000 seems a hell of a lot to charter an aircraft, but maybe not, I don't know. But I'll tell you what, Jags, you or anyone of those players last night, or Koeman,could have paid to charter that aircraft out of your over inflated weekly salary, and still have a few thousand left over.

I wonder if he is still feeling for us this morning?

John Hammond
118 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:01:34
Chris (#111), You may well be right. Maybe Koeman has his hands tied. The fact no replacement for Lukaku was signed despite us having months to find one makes it seem a possibility.
Colin Malone
119 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:04:42
We miss a type of defensive midfielder of the Gareth Barry ilk. Schneiderlin form has dropped, that can only improve. Can we go with one holding midfielder, with one in a more advanced role? I think so. We have got to get rid of the hoof ball – it does not work!!!
Jason Bowen
120 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:04:56
Stop over analysing everything boys, the man is not upto the job, simple as, we need to be ruthless and get rid of him asap, we have no pace, no shape, no power, no passion!

How much longer are we going to wait for success? We have been utter utter shit for 30 years whilst everyone around us has grown! It's fucking shocking what has happened to our club, wake up and smell the fucking coffee.

The time to act is now, not wait in hope that he turns it round, I for one am sick of fucking waiting, hes fucking crap! Wake up!

Steve Ferns
121 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:05:22
Chris,

Rooney was "considering his future" as late as this summer, ie, just weeks before we signed him. Koeman was talking Rooney up in press-conferences before that.

Koeman is not a man who would be forced into anything. That is very clear from how he is. I cannot envisage that Rooney was "signed" or what have you before we actually did sign him, or even before Koeman came. Rooney came in with Koeman's consent at the very least.

Koeman has signed Rooney, Klaassen and Sigurdsson deliberately. Some like myself have tried to guess where he plays them all in the same side. All of my guesses have been wrong as Koeman keeps doing strange selections.

The best way to make them work, is to have them all play off a fixed striker, the best we have for that is Calvert-Lewin, and to play them all centrally and narrow. Klaassen will play vertically looking to get the ball forwards and then go forwards himself. Rooney and Sigurdsson will look to pull off the killer pass and hang back. So a very narrow 4-2-3-1 with Klaassen behind the striker and the other two marginally wide of him with licence to roam.

However, I would personally like to see a deviation of a 4-2-3-1. I would want the defensive axis of Schneiderlin and Gueye to remain in tact as I think that was crucial to everything good last season and can provide the stability upon which to build in the side. I would also want the stability of a fixed forward man in Calvert-Lewin. I would then like to see a player who will run at defences in one of the wide positions of the 3 and a player who will come inside in the other wide position.

For the central number 10 position, I would actually go with Rooney as what good we have done this season has all come through him. I would then utilise Rooney in a completely free role. Let him go wherever he wants, and as the defensive two is in place, the back four is settled, and Calvert-Lewin is occupying the defence, then Rooney can find the space to operate.

Anthony Burke
122 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:06:09
Koeman went on a worse run under Southampton and I thought they could actually go down. I think they ended finishing 7th and impressed that season.

I'm as disappointed with the last 3 performances as most on here but calling for his head after 4 Premier League games is a bit premature if you ask me. I'd at least wait to see we're we are going after the next set of fixtures after Man Utd, then I will make my judgement.

Tulang Besi
123 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:06:52
Koeman Out!!!!

Moyes In!!!!!!

We are a bigger joke than when Martinez was managing

James Macdonald
124 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:11:12
Okay, Ron, follow my lead – play the following team for now:-

Pickford

Kenny
Keane
Williams
Baines

Gueye
Davies

Sigurdsson

Vlasic
Calvert-Lewin
Lookman

Seamus back in for Kenny, Barkley for Vlasic and Bolasie competing with Lookman in due course. Sandro coming in now and again for any of front 3.

If McCarthy fit on a consistent basis, he should come in for Gueye. Schneiderlin and Klaassen to get chance to prove themselves but sell in summer if they do not.

Denis Richardson
125 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:15:12
John (#103),

I fully agree. I think signing Rooney was a really bad idea and personally I don't think it was Koeman's decision. Given his wages and the fanfare I think he's also under some obligation to pick him.

Sigurdsson was always Koeman's first choice for a No 10 so signing Rooney made no sense and picking him along with Sigurdsson gives no balance.

We do have good players all be it lacking confidence, width and pace in the attacking part, but there is something not right in the camp and the players are obviously not happy. I always worried that Rooneys' signing would cause issues behind the scenes – I may well be wrong but that's my opinion.

The club should use his 'issues' as an excuse to 'rest' him for a few games and allow the team to function without him. Put Mirallas back in the side for pace and width and bring Lookman in off the bench.

Daniel Lim
126 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:19:12
If Koeman is angry, how do we feel?
Anthony Burke
127 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:19:47
He's won 8 trophies as a manager – let's sack him.
Frank Wade
128 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:21:04
Koeman asked for realism after Spurs match. I think we all have it now, in spades. In the old days, a manager would resign his post in these circumstances.
Christy Ring
129 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:21:24
Chris @111

I believe Koeman was in total charge of all the transfers including buying Rooney. I'm fed up listening to bullshit, that Kenwright wouldn't allow us buy a striker at the end of the window.

Lukaku was gone the first day of the window, Koeman had 2 months to buy a striker, instead he spent £45m on Sigurdsson. You said play him in the role he excels in, his role was setting up Llorente, a striker which he didn't buy.

As for Klaassen, he has been given an opportunity, but having cost £26m, he needs at least a season to adjust to the rigours of the Premier League.

Jim Knightley
130 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:23:50
The problem isn't just the results – it is the nature of performances. We were not going to challenge for Champions League this season –our team has far too many issues and lacks the class of the teams above us. But it is much better than surrendering meekly at home to Spurs or bring thumped in Atlanta.

Koeman's tactics are off – he reminds me of Moyes at the end of his Man Utd reign. There is no direction, no obvious idea. The players are lacking confidence, and being played out of position incessantly. What was he doing with Rooney last night?!

Lukaku's loss is massive. Those who said he wouldn't be missed either don't understand football or haven't watched football. That will hold us back this season, as will a lack of pace and the lack of a top centre-back partner to Keane. But the issues run much deeper than that. I said last week that we should give Koeman until the November international break. After last night, I think we should give him until 1 October.

We started poorly last season – we are starting poorly this. The football is dull, the decisions strange, and the confidence and determination are missing. He has three league fixtures, a domestic cup game, and a Europa League game to come. It we can't improve from this insipid dross, then I'd rather us give Unsworth a chance.

I don't think that there is a top manager we can just pluck from another club – it would be a risk throwing someone untried in. But the point is that Koeman is failing and that we haven't really put in a good performance this season.

Unsworth has impressed with the Under-23s, knows the club, and might just get us playing sensible football, ie, the kind of football that doesn't put a paceless Rooney on the wing.

James Macdonald
131 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:25:07
If Moshiri says McCarthy is family what does that make Ross Barkley? Lifeblood? The time is now right (in particular while he is injured) to do what is needed to keep him. Don't be fooled – he is by far our best player.

While I believe in Koeman, if faced with the choice between them, then it is Barkley all day long for me. I suspect economically that is a no-brainer as well. Not sure why Moshiri is not on that page yet...

Steve Ferns
132 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:29:48
It'll cost £150m to fix Koeman's mess, James. That is £12m to pay him off, £70m to buy a striker and another £70m to buy a defender and a winger or two.

It is more economical to keep Koeman and let Barkley leave and hope and pray that Koeman strikes lucky and gets things going again. Don't forget that, after a stuttering start last season, it was all doom and gloom in November before things picked up dramatically.

John Hammond
133 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:33:16
Steve (#121),

Out of all the number 10's Rooney is bottom of the pile in my opinion. No doubt he's a naturally gifted footballer but his time was up years ago.

We should be rotating Klaassen and Sigurdsson in the Number 10 position and getting some pace in on the wings. Schneiderlin shouldn't be anywhere near the starting 11 right now.

We all know Koeman likes his teams to press and with Rooney it's non-existent – look what happened last night after he went off.

Paul Kelly
134 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:40:04
"I hope and pray that Koeman strikes lucky and gets things going again".

You've highlited the problem right there Steve, even your praying for a divine intervention!

Lenny Kingman
135 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:41:46
I keep thinking about the first-half performance against Split. Best blues showing for a very long time but where was it actually taking place? In a parallel universe? Maybe Bizzaro-world where everything is the opposite of what really is. The amateur schoolboy efforts of last evening are hinting at darkness to counteract the bright fantasies of recent times.

Forget the stadium, that simply won't be built, Rooney may go off to China to escape the gathering whirlwind whilst the pig-faced and pig-headed Koeman, with his partner in crime Walsh, continue to shepherd their blue flock away from the promised land.

John Hammond
136 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:43:02
Denis (#125),

Agreed, he was always going to bring his off-field drama with him. The fact he wasn't dropped after the drink driving charge does my head in. It's not the incident itself but the fact he was drinking. Anyone seriously think that was a one-off?!

The rest of the team must be thinking where's the respect. He's getting 90 mins every league game.

Let's hope he doesn't start at Old Trafford...

Tony McNulty
137 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:44:16
Breaking news. We have hired a new spokesperson for the post-match manager's interview on Sunday:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfAeMtcURg0

Steve Ferns
138 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:48:19
John, funny how different people see different things.

As for being better once Rooney went off, I think that's more because Atalanta took their foot of the gas and sat back more. Most teams who get thrashed in the first half improve dramatically in the second. This is usually just due to the dominant team easing off.

Koeman says about pressing, but I would ask if we have ever really seen it. The stats don't bear out a pressing game. We don't press collectively. if I want to be truly critical, then I would point out that we were at our best last season when we played Gueye, Davies and Schneiderlin and the former two pressed hard, but no one else did.

As for dropping Schneiderlin, who else in the team can play his role? What other person in the side do we have who can hit the long pass? Only Rooney. Gueye and Schneiderlin are different players, with different supplement each other and are meant to cancel out each other's deficiencies. Take Schneiderlin out of the side and we would lose the last bit of shape we have and the last bit of impetus we have.

There's something clearly not right in the middle of the park and Koeman needs to get a grip of it. How Davies is now behind Besic is beyond me.

Dave Evans
139 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:51:04
Rooney has been one of our most committed and effective players since the start of the season. Neutrals today agree that at least last night he put in some effort. It is the logic of the mad house to start blaming the player for our poor performances this season.
Tom Bowers
140 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:54:02
To be honest, interviews with these managers before or after the games is so boring especially those who haven't learned English yet. Mourinho is the most boring to listen to of all. They give excuses but generally the one excuse they cannot say on air is that the team is crap.

Most fans can see Everton have no spirit or confidence and certainly no bite. At the moment I would dread them getting Billericay in the next match let alone Man Utd.

Everton seem to have a much talent on paper as any most other teams but are lacking the inspiration from the manager who sounds like he has a defeatest attitude, simply not knowing what to do next.

Steavey Buckley
141 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:56:14
The wheels were starting to fall off, once Lukaku was sold. It was not evident how bad Everton's situation is, until he was sold. Now, the obvious weaknesses are starting to be realised.

Most, if not all, Koeman's buys have mostly been bad except for Gueye. The others for various reasons have either been over priced or have not performed. Koeman, instead of looking for unearthed gems with his knowledge of football throughout Europe actually tried to buy proven quality. But with spending so much on a few players there are glaring gaps in the defence and the attack.

Williams and Baines should have been replaced with far better defenders. But the most glaring deficiencies were not to obtain two proven strikers and someone out wide.

Paul Kelly
142 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:05:32
Rob- quick search churned up £12,000 an hour, 2 hours 30 mins = £30k .

Very quick search and probably not including all the variables but it was for a 767.

I stand to be corrected by a lot, probably, but after that shit show, step up the board and show we are the People's Club and its not some shit saying to appease the lack of trophies the past two decades and reimburse the diehards that spent their hard earned wonga watching that shower.

As bad as I can remember, and I watched us against Spurs!

Ron Sear
143 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:06:39
Brilliant ploy of Koeman to arrange a near riot in London with the Cologne supporters. Took the heat off him from the mainstream press with a distraction that any magician would have been proud of.
Paul Kelly
144 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:09:31
"As for dropping Schneiderlin, who else in the team can play his role?"

Me! – fat, bald, overweight useless sack of shit, would still equal his output!

And we don't need to be playing long passes as we're playing it narrow through the middle? That's what you said wasn't it?

Not having a go at you or questioning Wazza's ability for a long pass, but we don't play width and if the serial swordsman is playing long passes he must be far too deep, a psychological problem from his Man Urtd, England and TGT (on the wing) days or just a desire to win?

Christy Ring
145 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:23:53
He has to pick players in their proper positions on Sunday. I'd go with:

Pickford
Kenny Keane Holgate Baines
Lennon Gueye Davies Lookman
Calvert-Lewin Niasse

I would have dropped Baines but Garbutt has no game time, and if McCarthy was fit, I'd start him.

John Hammond
146 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:25:57
Steve (#138), It's a funny old game!

I didn't say we were better when Rooney went off just that all of a sudden we were collectively pressing – a complete change to the previous hour or so. This is what Koeman wanted all last season and it at least shows some sort of game plan.

As for Schneiderlin I don't recall him being a long pass kind of player so I looked it up on Whoscored. He does 1 long pass per game. He's renowned on TW for passing backwards!

I'm wondering if Davies wasn't played last night to keep him fresh for Sunday. Probably why we didn't see Gueye either.

Steve Ferns
147 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:28:31
Koeman isn't doing that, Paul. He is trying to play width without wide players! He's bought a team to play narrowly but doesn't execute it.

And if you do play narrowly, then you pull the opposition to be more narrow as well, which means there is space on the flanks to pass into. The theory is then that Schneiderlin will be hitting long passes to Coleman and Baines who get forward unchecked by the opposition.

It's hard to tell exactly what Koeman is doing, it is all such a mess. He really needs to sort it out.

Brent Stephens
148 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:29:05
Steve "How Davies is now behind Besic is beyond me".

Yes, criminal. And we can't say it's because Besic is a Koeman signing. Besic was appalling last night, and not for the first time.

Pete Clarke
149 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:37:31
How is it that a team that is set up with its main strength being to stop the opposition, cannot do exactly that?? It's got to be down to tactics and the team are showing none or simply don't understand Koeman.

We have absolutely no threat and opposition can attack without fear. He has spent very badly but needs to find a solution within. We could be on for a record low-scoring season, I reckon.

Denis Richardson
150 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:52:29
Brent (#148) – not sure if your post was supposed to be sarcastic but Besic is definitely not a Koeman signing. Martinez signed him after seeing his one and only ever decent game at the 2014 World Cup.

Since then, he's focused his time on chatting to the nurses in sick bay or expanding his collection of yellow and red cards, to add to his ridiculous tattoos.

Brent Stephens
151 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:56:49
No, Denis. No sarcasm. Well aware who signed Besic. Went to watch him in his first game for us, a pre-season friendly at Tranmere (and I said he looked the best in our side!).

What I was trying to say was that Koeman is accused of playing people because he signed them (and maybe that's true). If so, that can't be an excuse for playing Besic, as Koeman didn't sign him.

Steve Ferns
152 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:56:56
John,

Schneiderlin's background is as an attacking midfielder, prior to coming to Southampton. Adkins then made him into more of a box-to-box midfielder before he excelled for Pochettino in a more defensive role.

What set Schneiderlin apart is that is he got fitter and became more of a box to box midfielder, and as he became more responsible for defending, his attacking statistics remained high.

We all know he had a dip / was wasted at Man Utd. He's come here and is being deployed deeper than ever. We let Gueye be the one to press more as Gueye clearly has the greater lung power and can run all day long. But Schneiderlin sits in more, and shields the defence.

Clearly, it didn't work against spurs, but I would be interested to know how many times the opposition have scored more than 2 against Gueye and Schneiderlin.

For me, without looking at the stats, Schneiderlin has still been doing the playmaking duties well (last season) and he was passing the ball forward more noticeably than others and in a better way (less hospital passes and less hopeful balls).

This season, his attacking play has been poor. but up until the last two games, defensively he was still sound, such as in the Man City game where he was excellent up until he was sent off.

Charles Barrow
153 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:57:54
Koeman is most definitely not the manager for us.

1. Doesn't seem to give a shit about us – his language is very detached.

2. His man-management skills are dreadful – he's alienated too many players.

3. His tactics are woeful. He lost me last year after the Chelsea game when we lost 5-0. His tactics 'kick it up to Lukaku' – end of his tactical team talk.

4. His buying of 4/5 midfield players who play in the same position and no strikers – bizarre.

5. His selection of his 'favourites'; but even then playing them out of position – even more bizarre!

6. His cost – £6 million a year clearly doesn't get you much these days!

Jim Lloyd
154 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:02:00
I thought last season, though fairly unspectacular, we were getting harder to beat under Koeman and scoring a lot more than we let in. That was until about the last half dozen games or more, when Reidy said "we were playing in our flip flops". Looking back, It might well have been that the players had become disinterested/confused, call it what you like; but we had seemed to have switched off.

I thought/hoped that come the transfer window,we'd be getting shut of our less competent players and would bring in players in to step us up towards challenging the top six. I would have thought we would be challenging the top four for at least another full season and transfer window.

As the transfer window it was a real good feeling to see us pick up so many young players with skill, athleticism and a will to win. getting near to the closing of it, I was like most others, looking for us to get "the centre-forward" with Giroud being the man.

It didn't happen and I thought we looked overcrowded in the midfield but that Klaassen, Sandro, Rooney and Sigurdsson, at the very least, would be looking dangerous and all had plenty of goals in them. That we'd be able to get through to January not too far away from 7th and then get our injured players back and a centre forward brought in, and we could then be able to offer a strong challenge to those above us.

Well, during the Spurs game I couldn't help thinking that the players in Blue were not a team and not only were Spurs giving us a football lesson, I could see that there was no hope that we would learn that lesson.

One glaring weakness that could perhaps have been rectified, was the right full-back. I felt sorry for him. I don't think he's the fullback for us but could understand that it was thought he might be useful in emergencies until Seamus was back.

I don't really like playing manager but on this occasion it was absolutely crystal clear to everyone, that Cuco was out of position and out of his depth playing in that defence. He at least was making some really good runs forward but that wasn't his major task. Davies for Spurs had all the time in the world (could have sat down, had a cup of tea, read the paper, then got up and crossed the ball) to supply their dangerous forwards with crosses.

I don't know if young Kenny was on the bench but it would have been an opportunity to bring that Cuco feller to a more forward position and let him put his crosses in, while Kenny tore into Davies.

That's just one change that could have been tried; there were others, such as letting Ramiro play alongside young Calvert-Lewin with Rooney feeding both.

Anyway, the end result is as the match played out I could only think that we, as a club, were in trouble. I couldn't see any nucleus, except for the goalie, perhaps Keane, Guye, and Rooney, with maybe Ramirez and Klaassen coming good and Sigurdsson having the right position for him and with players round him to support; and that would be about it.

Schneiderlin might just not be a defensive midfielder doing the Barry job, but he certainly doesn't look it.

The manager, well, I thought that he did a good job at Southampton and that he'd do a better job for us.

I can't see it though, I'm sorry to say.

We've plenty of kids who would be chomping at the bit to get into the first team and perhaps we could do worse; but it would be terrible to give them a baptism of fire and expect them to save us... and I mean that... to save us; as I can't see Ronald Koeman providing the answers.

I think we're in such a position that by Christmas, if the play hasn't improved, I think Farhad Moshiri will have to use the axe.

It would be hard for a manager to come in with such a shambles that we have but I think we'll be lucky, very lucky to see any kind of dramatic improvement with the present coach.

Hope I'm wrong but I was talking to some lads in the pub last night who had seen the Atalanta match. All long standing Evertonians from the early sixties and they all said the same. This is as bad as the bad times.

Steve Ferns
155 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:03:04
Koeman talking now...
Mark Daley
156 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:15:11
An anagram of "Ronald Koeman" is "Old moan maker". Just saying...
Derek Thomas
157 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:15:53
Jim Lloyd @154; Not Christmas mate, but after the Watford game on Bonny Night. Gives the New Guy the International Break to get it into some sort of shape... If he lasts that long.
Jim Lloyd
158 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:21:13
Good point, Derek.
Paul Setter
159 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:26:32
Sick of this crap. Worse under this Pat Butcher lookalike than under Martinez.
Soren Moyer
161 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:33:16
Sack him. It's never too soon! He is clueless. If we don't sack him now, we will be in relegation battle before we know it.
Paul Williams
162 Posted 15/09/2017 at 13:53:01
The last time the board delayed the inevitable, it was 3 days before the Man Utd semi-final. If they'd acted then with Martinez after the thumping at Anfield, we could have gone on to win the FA Cup. There comes a time when no matter how good or bad the manager, when you've lost the confidence and inspiration there has to be a change.

Put Unsworth in caretaker charge now, as he should have been two years back.

Joe Bibb
163 Posted 15/09/2017 at 14:09:43
For those fans who say "we did ok in the second half" they should remember that Atalanta found it hard because they were laughing so much.
Rick Tarleton
164 Posted 15/09/2017 at 14:10:50
The Barkley situation and his attitude to Koeman become clearer every day. In every post for the past few weeks I've bemoaned the fact that intelligent, knowledgeable managers do not spend almost £100 million on three players for the one position, a position already filled by our most talented player.

Of those three players only Sigurdsson looks an addition to the squad. Rooney despite all the pre-season hype looks what he is, a formerly very good player whose legs have gone. Klaassen looks neat and competent, but does not look like a player who would ever be more than a good squad man.

I'm also concerned the way local lads like Kenny and Davies are being frozen out by Koeman. Schneiderlin looks like a player who has lost his mojo and shows few signs of it coming back.

As for motivation and passion, well! Koeman bought the players, trains the players and is paid £6 million a year to motivate the players. He has managed in the short time he has had Keane to change him from an excellent, international class central defender into a hesitant, shambles.

This man is not the manager we want, we were promised or the one we need.

Sur Jo
165 Posted 15/09/2017 at 14:19:58
The big question is where are we heading under Koeman?

When he first signed, he talked about a project. Didn't he? He signed a three-year contract and we are mid-way through his contract. And where's his project taking us now that he's consumed 50% of his contract?

What are we going to achieve by end of next season when his contract is over?

He somehow mentioned that this team is too new and it'll take time to settle. Surely, they won't be settled in time this season to get Champions League football or win anything comfortably this season.

Does this guy have a clue?

He shows no passion and productivity in his speech and treatment of established Everton players who were here prior to him.

A manager is also supposed to bring the best out of average players. How much had he brought out of Deulofeu, Niasse, McCarthy, Barkley and the youngsters he had shipped to Sunderland?

John Daley
166 Posted 15/09/2017 at 14:46:29
Maybe Morgan Schneiderlin is meant to sit and act as a shield in front of the defence but it's clearly not working in practice. Teams with a spattering of pace and power can seemingly still rip at us, straight down the middle, at will. At the moment it's an 'extra layer of protection' as pointless and porous as Edward Scissorhands rolling a rubber johnny down his painfully sore prick.

It's the same with all this talk of Morgan's vital role in the 'quick transitioning' of play. Perfectly fine in theory but how often does it actually materialise? Sure, he picked a couple of passes out against City, but soon settled back into his usual placid routine when they started to turn the screw.

On the occasions he wins the ball back, he very rarely gets it moving forward first time, instead preferring to put his foot on it before nonchalantly knocking it back or slipping a short pass sideways.

He might very well possess the ability to spray long passes all over the field but, whether due to a lack of movement from others, fuck all width to the team, or a tendency to do the bare minimum while keeping things tidy, it's a skill set he seems strangely shy in utilising.

Gareth Barry certainly had the ability to look, see and implement the long pass in his locker, but used to get endless grief because of his being as nimble on his toes as Ed-209 at the top of a flight of stairs. Schneiderlin is equally as slow but without the excuse of advancing age to seek solace behind.

Whereas Barry was a player with great nous who knew where to situate himself on the pitch in order to minimise the impact of his running through mud in orthopaedic shoes and also when and where to take a hit/card for the team, Schneiderlin's stock answer...once he's been skinned and slid in too late a couple of times... seems to be to gradually slink further back as the game progresses, until he's effectively playing in the space already occupied by the centre-halves. All it does is to invite further pressure and cause confusion over who is meant to be picking up who.

It's not just this time out either. Schneiderlin's performance against Spurs last season was possibly the poorest from an Everton player all season. He might look decent in games against weaker opposition, where Everton are on top and he can remain unruffled, as his composure in such instances is regularly interpreted as 'class'. When the team are under the cosh and there's a bit of pace careening toward him, he craps it, panics and can be pushed aside as easily as the rest of them.

James Carroll
167 Posted 15/09/2017 at 14:57:34
Just seen the press conference...

Dead man walking.

Andy Meighan
168 Posted 15/09/2017 at 14:58:18
Brilliant point about Schneiderlin, John...

But who the fuck is Ed-209?

Jerome Shields
169 Posted 15/09/2017 at 16:27:25
Searching for answers. When a professional manager watches a team like Everton, it's obvious:

1.Who was the clown who bought in those players?
2.What is he doing with the promising players Everton have?
3. What is he telling his first team on the training ground, or do they train?
4. I can't workout the tactics.
5.Have they a Manager?

Answer: They have a Manager paid £6 million a year...

James Marshall
170 Posted 15/09/2017 at 16:51:54
All teams have a bad spell across the season, it seems ours is at the start.

I'm not one for sacking managers when things get sticky, though I totally understand the frustration of our supporters.

To me the best thing now is for us to stick together as much as possible and get the team playing well. I'd imagine that's the mantra on the inside as well.

If we sack Koeman, what then? Who do we bring in? Who's available? How does that serve? I'd be interested to hear any options from those on here that want him sacked now...

Jeff Armstrong
171 Posted 15/09/2017 at 17:42:57
James,

Thomas Tuchel is available, David Unsworth is available, Mike Bassett is available... all would be an upgrade on Koeman.

Christy Ring
172 Posted 15/09/2017 at 18:03:02
James @ 170,

The team is a complete shambles. We have no shape, no width, no striker, players playing out of position. Last night we were second to every ball, no drive, aggression, passion, we couldn't even string two passes together.

We were the same against Spurs and Chelsea. We don't even look fit. If he was sacked, whoever takes over, couldn't do any worse.

By the way, have to agree with Brent, always thought Besic was over-rated.

Denis Richardson
173 Posted 15/09/2017 at 18:34:49
To be fair, I'd give Koeman until the next international break to turn things around – it would still be early enough in the season for a new manager to try to do something as well as giving him a couple of months to look at the squad to see what he wants in January, apart from a striker!

Confidence is the main thing in football, you can have all the talent in the world but if you've got no confidence you're not going to play well. Koeman needs to earn his corn over the next 3-4 weeks and if he can't get the players to put in the requisite effort/passion/aggression etc then its time to go I think – he also wouldn't be able to blame it on the tough start to the season.

I'm ordering a suitably large sofa for the game this weekend – not sure I can take watching it, especially as Lukaku will inevitably score. Might be one to miss and just check the score at half-time.

Ian Riley
174 Posted 15/09/2017 at 18:39:16
Let's pretend the season starts on Monday. It's a dream, we are not really this shit!

Soren Moyer
175 Posted 15/09/2017 at 19:03:40
Let's be clear! It's not a bad patch or bad luck. It's the mis-management of the team. It is the lack of passion and desire. It is the inability to do the very basic things. It is the awful tactics, dreadful system of playing and performances, week-in & week-out, since last season.

Not to mention spending so much money on some useless players. He has no clue what he is doing. If this club has a drop of ambition, they should sack the charlatan now!

There is no point to analyse the games anymore! It is beyond that. We are the laughing stock of the football world!

Rick Pattinson
176 Posted 15/09/2017 at 19:31:16
We will not get out of this mess until Koeman is sacked. Worst team in years but on paper not so bad so that tells me all is not happy behind the scenes. Get Ranieri in asap or this slump will continue.
Alan Smith
177 Posted 15/09/2017 at 20:11:57
Jim (#154)

What young players with skill?

Every player we've bough has been average or worse, and in some cases hey have already peaked.

This whole thread is a joke. There are no complicated answers or complicated problems – just the glaring obvious.

Since Moshiri arrived we've sold a truly world class striker. A current top international centre-back. A top international goalkeeper become too old, and our strength at full back deteriorated for reasons outside of our control. The best midfielder we had in Barkley, you mostly want rid off.

We then bought shit players. Every single one of them. Some we chased for months.

The young skillful players we signed??? Where? I must have missed that? We let one go in Deulofeu though.

Pardew could not believe we bought Bolasie. Schneirderlin was good at Southampton four years ago. McCarthy was supposed to be good back then too. Man Utd played Carrick and Fellaini ahead of him. Most fans said he played good last season. When was that? Standing in space in front of a back 4 at home against poor uninterested mid table sides, hitting simple passes. Is anyone really going to come on here and tell me that an on form Schneirderlin is better than an 90% Barry? He got injured 2 or 3 times as well. Fans are seeing what they want or confirmation bias plays a part.

How can you finish 7th and buy non international players, a goalie who is not even quite 6'-1" and expect to improve?

And waste tens of millions on kids the big boys don't want and our Under-23s are already very good.

Rooney, Sigurdsson, Gana and Sandro are the only players out of every player brought in the last three windows.

This 4 with a goalkeeper, centre-bac, winger, cm, all current internationals from grade A countries, with the strength and pace to cope with the premier league is all we needed.

Plus two new deals for Barkley and Lukaku should have been on the table the day after Moshiri arrived.

Lukaku should only have been allowed to leave once, Bellotti or Werner or Williams had agreed to sign. But no, Lukaku is lazy, bad touch etc... The fans and the board love selling. Most fans loved it. They loved the minuscule fee, the over-hyped shite players coming in and Walsh's, Koeman's, and Moshiri's drivel that they always talk. The worst of which was trying to force Barkley out.

Therefore I believe the fans are as responsible as Koeman and Walsh. Just think how they treat other fans like Hind who spot flaws early and demand better.

Low expectations equals low achievements.

Ian Riley
178 Posted 15/09/2017 at 21:00:58
Until or if Koeman goes, the players need to get their finger out and start doing their jobs. If I was to blame my manager for my performance at work, I would be kicked out of my profession.

Enough is enough. The players have to work harder if not for the manager but for the fans. These are professional footballers and it's too easy to hide away. Unless we work harder on Sunday, it could be embarrassing. There are no excuses for a lack of effort, desire and hunger.

Mick Conalty
179 Posted 15/09/2017 at 21:10:55
I was there in 1962-63. Golden Vision. Roy Vernon to name but a few in Royal Blue.

I was there in 1969-70 School of Science in Royal Blue.

I was their in 1984-85 Reidy, Bracewell to name but a few, in Royal Blue.

Keoman, you may have had an illustrious career as a player. But as Everton FC manager, you are not fit to lace the boots of our past players. How dare you treat our great club with such contempt. We will be a great club again long after you have gone.

Paul Hewitt
180 Posted 15/09/2017 at 21:26:40
Let's calm down, take deep breaths, then get real. Koeman ain't going anywhere soon.

After Sunday, we have a run of games that are very winnable. Let's see where we are after we play Brighton.

Mark Murphy
181 Posted 15/09/2017 at 21:46:08
When we got those early signings in, everyone thought the team would need time to gel. Then the fixtures came out and we faced 3 of the top 4 in the country plus Man Utd to come.

Realistically, a new side is always going to struggle with that start. As for the lack of striking options, Giroud was the preferred incoming but shit happens and his wife turned us down. All other options were second best and most on here didn't want them. Costa? Do me a favour – he was never coming.

It's a long term process and calling for a change of manager after 4 league games and an away defeat to Italians is knee jerk.

Give it time – we won't get relegated and we probably won't get top 4, or even 6, but the players we have, with a couple of additions in January and summer, will improve us. It's not going to happen overnight.

Neil Carter
182 Posted 15/09/2017 at 22:13:24
Problem from start of the season has been slow play. Only time there has been any pace this season was when the young players came on against Seville.

Problems summed up in Darren Griffith's commentary on the Atalanta game – they look fitter than us; same with Spurs, more movement – those of us who stayed to the end saw Spurs still running to the end 3-0 up!!!

When Koeman arrived last season he said we were 70% fit and sorted it.

Needs to look at his staff and himself and see if he's still practising what he was preaching.

Sort it Ronald – you and those buggers are getting paid enough. It's your team now... let's see if you really are such a good manager!!!

Dave Southword
183 Posted 15/09/2017 at 23:27:58
Well said, Ian Riley. In life, we should have no one to blame but ourselves. Tim Cahill said that you should come off the pitch with no regrets – you give it all and, if that's not enough, so be it.

Koeman's tactics and selections will only really matter when the players think like Tim. Confidence is low and perhaps Koeman's weakness is his inability to raise their confidence, belief and to an extent, motivation. Big problem if he doesn't have the dressing room, but the players have responsibility too.

Anthony Burke
185 Posted 15/09/2017 at 23:52:42
Okay we've been poor lately and we will improve. Let's be realistic: vS Stoke City, probably expecting 3 points; vs Man City, expecting 0 points; vs Chelsea, expecting 0 points; vs Spurs expecting 1 point...

If you look at it like that, we've got the points we expect we'd've had. A difficult start fixture-wise, to be bedding in a complete new team against lesser opposition, it could've been easier for our new team to gel... but they have been thrown in at the deep end.

Please be patient. The good times will return. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum!!!

Brian Porter
186 Posted 16/09/2017 at 01:33:56
Mark (#181),

The problem as I believe most of us see it is not just about the three shattering defeats we've suffered but is one that has been building up since the last quarter of last season when we appeared to 'give up' in the chase for 6th place. We generously put it down to the players having their flip-flops on ready for their holidays but in fact we now see exactly the same malady infecting the team.

These are now by and large a completely different set of players, brought in by Koeman himself, but they are playing exactly the same slow, ponderous, ultra defensive and totally turgid rubbish we saw last season. Our general performance levels dropped off seriously from March and it is becoming clear that no matter who the personnel are, Koeman is sending them out totally ill-prepared, with no tactics worth mentioning and they are looking more demoralised with each passing week.

So we are not simply basing calls for his sacking on the opening games of this season, but on a malaise that Koeman appears to have infected every one of our players with, new signings as well as older squad members.

He is well out of his depth and seemingly bereft of ideas on how to correct things. Not to forget that he appears to be single-handedly alienating player after player with his overbearing, headmaster-like methods which might have been okay a decade ago but not any more when he's dealing with millionaire players who won't be spoken to or publicly castigated the way he treats them.

Nothing is going to change, I fear, until Koeman is gone. He has turned us into a laughing stock, but I for one, fail to see the funny side.

Roman Sidey
187 Posted 16/09/2017 at 03:14:01
We'd never know whether it's crap behind the scenes that's causing the poor form, or whether Koeman is doing a bad job of motivating the players, but here is what we do know about the manager:

- He can't magically buy any player he wants. I'm sure he wanted to replace Lukaku (how are all those who called for Rom's head last season feeling now?) but it isn't always that straight forward.
- He is dealing with this squad:

Pickford – decent but fresh
Stekelenburg – not terrible but not amazing either
Robles – not very reliable
Kenny – unknown quantity
Connolly – totally unknown quantity
Robinson – who?
Martina – crap
Keane – promising
Jagielka – crap, uninspiring, can't pass,
Baines – finished and was overrated his entire career anyway
Holgate – not as good as some on here think
Funes Mori – sick-note, good for a clanger when he plays, sadly probably our best CB over the past few seasons
Williams – bit more mongrel than Jags, but still not very good
Browning – is he still at the club?
Coleman – dead
Sigurdsson – will be deadly when played in correct position
Vlasic – could turn out to be a good buy, or could turn out to be Magaye Gueye in disguise – who knows?
Schneiderlin – in a poor run of form, but a quality player when playing his correct position
Klaassen – looks like Naismith, hopefully he is a better player than Naismith
Walsh – who?
Davies – very good.
Gueye – very good
Besic – has suffered from three years of injuries
McCarthy – what happened here?
Dowell – unknown quantity
Barkley – it's all been said
Rooney – will score goals but very little else.
Mirallas – could be a game changer if given more than half an hour a month
Bolasie – if he ever plays for us again, I'll be excited
Lookman – needs minutes to fulfill potential
Calvert-Lewin – not very good
Sandro – will probably score goals against the bottom seven, maybe not much else
Lennon – meh
Niasse - see Lennon and multiply the mehs.

Any manager would struggle to make much sense out of that squad. I know it is pretty much a squad Koeman has built, but it is also a squad that the club was capable of attracting. If Ronaldo and Messi had a penchant for crashing hen's nights and wet weather, then perhaps we'd be able to attract players of their ilk.

Nitesh Kanchan
188 Posted 16/09/2017 at 05:54:42
Roman, you are wrong here mate. If they are shit, they should have shipped out in transfer window, but Koeman wanted them to stay.

He still praises how good Baines, Jags and Rooney are in spite of them having lost it. Yesterday in the press, he singled out Keane and Davies for their bad performances, but others are protected: Williams, Jagielka, Baines, Schneiderlin, etc. He is only making things worse.

As for Kenny, he said he doesn't deserve his chance as U23 play is as good as first team training. So Messi, Rashford, Kane are as good as Everton 1st team training. I fear for Kenny, Davies, Lookman and Barkley their future with us.

Win or lose at Old Trafford, this guy needs to go. He is only doing more damage to the club.

Mads Kamp
189 Posted 16/09/2017 at 07:53:20
If it was Football Manager this is the point where you would quit your current game and start all over, making sure you get those wide players!
Mark Murphy
190 Posted 16/09/2017 at 08:35:44
We did some good early business in the transfer market including next seasons striker. We had a promising start –unbeaten in friendliest and Europe and 4 clean sheets on the trot and a perhaps lucky draw away at Man City.

Then we got beat by what could easily be the champions and runners up this season and the confidence took a knock. Atalanta was shocking and I'm not expecting a win or even a draw tomorrow but we will get better over this season.

We may have to settle for upper mid table but we have the beginnings of a good squad for the future with exciting young players coming through, and in spite of many people's view on here, a manager who IS giving them game time.

I'm frustrated and impatient too but only Evertonians expected us to go top four this season – it's going to take longer than that and we need to give Koeman and the new players a chance to find the right blend.

If not, Rhino will step up next summer but let's not panic after 4 league games – we're not Palace!
Gordon White
191 Posted 16/09/2017 at 08:48:30
We're in big trouble here. It's fanciful to think we're going to kick on after Man Utd. Where are the goals coming from?

Team confidence has evaporated. We might scramble a few draws and the odd lucky win. Our only hope is the return of injured players and the January transfer window.

We are in this position through incompetence.

Will Mabon
193 Posted 16/09/2017 at 09:17:40
"We are in this position through incompetence."

"Incompetence", as manifest in the form of too much business-plan football club ownership, with the intent to be a top half of the table, secure investment, sold under the guise of aiming for the big time. The plan has only missed schedule so far by a slight overestimation of Koeman's abilities, and not getting a centre-forward... maybe.

Allan Board
194 Posted 16/09/2017 at 09:18:01
Difficult and shocking times for all things Everton certainly. Who would of thought it would go pear shape so quickly?

Not sure what to make of it all really – Manager not good enough? Players not good enough? Players don't care?

For what it's worth, this club has been here several times over the last 20 odd years and is like watching groundhog day.

Any player that has a winners mentality is sold and not replaced,with the excuse we are a sell to buy club.

Rubbish leadership mantra: Average players are kept and almost coveted because they are nice fellas and cause no problems, subsequently these same players become lazy and comfortable and don't really give a damn.

Rubbish leadership mantra: Any decent young players at the club are stifled in their development because they won't be given a chance in the 1st team due for fear of upsetting the average lazy buggers.

Rubbish leadership mantra: These young players however do spend enough time around the lazy buggers in training etc and in time toe the party line of "the senior players". It's a never-ending circle of mediocrity and lack of winning mentality.

Rubbish leadership mantra: Good teams have ruthless players who will kick you in training if it means they start on Saturday, managers who don't give a shit why you didn't play well (you are dropped) and the man at the top wants to rub all the other owners' noses in it and not give it a second thought.

Everton are soft, out of date, run by a couple of luvvies who treat your club and it's supporters with contempt. They will sack Koeman because he's a threat to their cosy love-in and not because the football is crap. If you want change, stop going and applauding mediocrity every week – it just encourages them.

Finally, my advice to David Unsworth is to find a club who will appreciate his undoubted talent as a youth coach – don't ever take the first-team job as the bastards will hang you out to dry and let you become a hate figure.

Kenwright and Moshiri Out!!!

Mike Connolly
195 Posted 16/09/2017 at 09:37:27
Everyone can see we are not capable of having shots on target, so how will we manage to get some good results?Why wait until Christmas to dig ourselves out of the shite?
Geoff Williams
196 Posted 16/09/2017 at 10:07:36
The more I hear Koeman speak and the more I read about him the more I realise that he is as disillusioned as Martinez ever was. He appears to have no idea how we've got into this mess and no idea to correct things.

The players are not bad players but they are playing appallingly badly at the moment. There is no structure to the team, team selection is poor and Koeman doesn't realise that it is down to him. He's getting more desperate as he sees his chances of ever managing Barcelona fade with every inept performance of his team.

If the club is reluctant to sack him then they should seriously look at changing the first team coaches.

Something has to be done and soon.

Soren Moyer
197 Posted 16/09/2017 at 12:23:21
Well said Brian #186.
Andy Meighan
198 Posted 16/09/2017 at 13:31:55
Roman (#187),

Baines overrated all his career?!? What a pile of nonsense. One of the best left-backs we've ever had and I've been supporting them nearly 50 years. Incredible.

Steve Ferns
199 Posted 16/09/2017 at 14:15:24
If you are going to criticise Ramiro Funes Mori then at least get his name right. His first name is Ramiro, His Dad's name is Funes, and his mother's name is Mori. If he was English, you'd call him Ramiro Funes. If you want to give him his full name then it is Funes Mori. If you want to shorten it, then it is Funes. It is never Mori.
Roman Sidey
200 Posted 16/09/2017 at 16:02:09
Andy, I totally disagree. Baines was good for Everton for a number of seasons, but where was Everton finishing in the table those years? He may be the best left-back we've had (debatable) but who is he being compared to? People point to his goals as reason for him being so good. Majority of his goals are from penalties. And he's not that good at defending. I'm not old enough to be able to comment on players pre-21st century, but if Baines is the best left-back Everton have ever had, then that's just really sad.
Steve Ferns
201 Posted 16/09/2017 at 16:44:33
Left back was the weakest position in the great 80s side - Bailey and van den Hauwe. Hinchcliffe was great from set plays, but couldn't defend and had no pace. Pistone was infuriating, capable of the sublime, but too often couldn't be bothered. Nuno Valente was good, but was old. So I would say Baines is the best I have ever seen.

I am sure the old guard will put forward World Cup Winner, Ray Wilson, as our best ever left back.

Dave Abrahams
202 Posted 16/09/2017 at 17:24:13
Steve (201) Pat van den Hauwe was weak? Then Nuno Valente was good... getting them back to front there, Steve!

Pat van den Hauwe was a great signing and improved the team; Nuno was signed by Moyes after a tip-off from Jose Mourinho. Mourinho should have kept his mouth shut and Moyes should have had a look at him before he signed him.

You are right about Ray Wilson though.

Dave Williams
203 Posted 16/09/2017 at 17:44:29
Van den Hauwe was world class for a couple of years until he got involved with Mandy Smith. He played a while at CB and was brilliant there too.

That said no one holds a candle to the magnificent Ray Wilson — best in the world for a while and streets ahead of Baines who was so dependent on Pienaar.

Colin Glassar
204 Posted 16/09/2017 at 17:47:43
Psycho Pat, what a player!!
Colin Glassar
205 Posted 16/09/2017 at 17:50:22
You obviously never saw Mike Pejic, Steve. Tough as nuts and a brilliant player. Wilson was probably the best I've ever seen but I loved Mike Pejic, Bailey and Pat.
Darren Hind
206 Posted 16/09/2017 at 18:03:10
Wilson – peerless

Baines – very classy

I'm surprised Paul Power hasn't had a mention. We all thought he was finished when he signed, but what a season he had!

Paul Tran
207 Posted 16/09/2017 at 18:07:12
I'll never forget Mike Pejic. When I was 14, I got a season ticket in the Enclosure for one season. One day I went in early for some reason and the players were arriving. When they got to the tunnel, I gave Pejic my season ticket to sign and he promptly walked down the tunnel with it before coming back 5 minutes later with my season ticket full of first team signatures! And he was a good player as well.
Ray Said
208 Posted 16/09/2017 at 18:47:41
Lots of blame to share around. The recruitment has been unbalanced. The coach has made a lot of errors in selection and tactics-if we have four number tens then play two of them behind Calvert-Lewin, in a 4-3-2-1? A better coach would look at what we have and find a formation to use those players to maximum effect. This coach seems wedded to 4-2-3-1 at present even though we plainly don't have the players for that.

The main blame lies with some of the players though as they are not doing the basics they are paid for. They are not running hard, they are being brushed off the ball, they are being out muscled, they are dropping too deep – at one point against Atalanta, Rooney dropped so deep, he only had Keane and the keeper behind him, they are failing to make 10 yard passes.

I don't think the coach should be calling the 'senior players' in – he should call the young fellers in: Lookman, Davies, Holgate, Calvert-Lewin, Vlasic etc – and say ' you are having the next five games show me you deserve to keep the shirt'. Play Holgate at CB, Play Davies as one of a mid field three to bring energy and running, get Lookman and running behind Calvert-Lewin. Get some effort in!!

Paul Ferry
209 Posted 16/09/2017 at 18:55:30
I agree Andy (#198) about Roman (#187).

And I would also add what a disgraceful thing to write 'Coleman dead'.

A bizarre choice of words all through 187 from someone who thinks that he is smart and funny.

Trevor Peers
210 Posted 16/09/2017 at 19:02:11
Watching Spurs v Swansea, I notice Swansea have a lot better options up front than we have, with Abrahams and Bony.

How did that happen?


Brian Porter
211 Posted 17/09/2017 at 06:16:43
Roman #187, well out of order, mate. Coleman and Funes Mori received serious injuries playing for their countries and both are working hard to return to fitness. To call Coleman 'dead' and Funes Mori 'sicknote' is insulting and inappropriate.

Your comment about Rooney 'will score goals but little else, didn't we say something similar about a certain Mr Lukaku. Goals will do just fine as far as most of us are concerned.

There are other points I would take exception to in your post but those are the main ones apart from your assertion that Calvert-Lewin isn't good enough. Ffs he excelled in the U20 World Cup and has been one of the few bright sparks on the field is far this season .

Alexander Murphy
212 Posted 17/09/2017 at 06:26:35
Roman 187.

Hop back under your bridge deep in the forest and await the arrival of the three billy goats gruff.

Rick Tarleton
213 Posted 17/09/2017 at 12:29:11
The answer in two words: Ronald Koeman. He (and Walsh) buy the players, he and his team coach the players and he is paid to motivate the players, to give them the passion that he claims they need.His very well-paid job is to buy, select, train and motivate the players, he is manifestly failing to do so effectively.
Roman Sidey
214 Posted 17/09/2017 at 16:08:40
Sorry about my choice of words with Coleman. It was meant as tongue in cheek. I am a huge Coleman supporter and wouldn't mean to disrespect him.

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