Koeman ratchets down expectations following dismal start

Monday 18 September 2017  166 Comments  [Jump to last]

Ronald Koeman was encouraged by his team's showing at Old Trafford and was taking the positives at the end of a miserable week but he dismissed Jose Mourinho's assertion that Everton's massive transfer outlay this summer means they should be challenging for the top four.

The Dutchman indicated that he would be looking at the comparatively more favourable run of fixtures that lie ahead of Everton as they seek to get back to winning ways.

“[That result] is difficult to understand,” Koeman said after the game. “if you look at the score, you'd think there was only one team on the pitch this afternoon but it wasn't.

“It's always difficult in the situation that the team is in when you concede a really fast goal in the game. But after that we grew into the game, we got more confidence and we felt there was something to win today.

“The second half was much better. I think for most of the second half there was one team trying to score and, okay, we got two big opportunities to score and thanks to De Gea, it was not 1-1.

“After the individual mistake by Ashley Williams it was over and the the third and the fourth — an easy free kick by the linesman; I don't understand this — and the penalty — I don't know if it's a penalty — made the score higher than we deserved.

“It was all about our desire. I saw a team out there who were prepared to fight every second and for every ball. We created, we did not score… it's a big defeat but we deserved more than that.

“Of course I'm disappointed about the final result. You need points. If you don't win, growing your confidence is really difficult but the team was totally different to what we showed last Thursday.

“We have four home games [now] and we need to win. That's the best medicine for getting your confidence back.”

Koeman addressed Mourinho's programme notes during his post-match press conference and denied that his team was ever capable of a top-four finish despite an outlay of around £140m during the last transfer window.

"Sorry, is there anybody, in this room or on the outside, who sees this as realistic or possible for Everton? Please, come on. Be realistic and let's talk at the end of the season.

“I'm not happy with how we have started the season but, please, let's be a little realistic about Everton. And it starts with everyone — the fans, the press… we need time.”

When asked what he considered to be a realistic target, the manager reportedly said: "The same as last season."

 

Reader Comments (166)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Minik Hansen
1 Posted 18/09/2017 at 02:08:58
On the way to four home games, that's sweet to the ears. Win against Arsenal along the way and we're back on track. Others won't let my belief down. COYB.
Kris Boner
2 Posted 18/09/2017 at 02:17:04
Okay. I understand pretty much all of the things he says, except the last bit.

I understand that we were competitive today. Early goal and we were profligate. Sure I get it. Fine. Better performance than the last few.

But £140 million later and you think nobody is going to think perhaps that Everton are supposed to be capable to challenging for the top four?

That's not acceptable. You took the team to 7th and then spent more than has ever been spent at this club. Between Koeman and the team behind him, they haven't provided (what seems like) a platform to achieve that.

No, that is unacceptable. The Premier League is stratified in several steps. Top seven, top four and title challengers. If you achieve top seven and then spend big but can claim you can't do any better than top seven, you've spent £140 million to stand still and that is ridiculous.

In classic cliche, I'm not saying "Koeman Out" just yet; I understand the difficulties of a start like we've had and the effect it can have on form. But this is "knife to a gunfight" crap if I've ever seen it, and I was raised during the Moyesian era. It's all very clear to me still.

I hope Unsy continues his education well, because I believe there is a manager in him somewhere. One with ambition and adaptability. Heavens knows we'll be in need of a manager soon...

Dennis Ng
4 Posted 18/09/2017 at 03:21:24
We sold Lukaku for $90m. We technically only spent $50m and most of that went into one player that Koeman has trouble fitting into the team.

Man Utd spent $150m with no player exits. I am on the fence about Koeman but I hate the lies that Mourinho spews to insult his opponents.

Carl Bloxam
5 Posted 18/09/2017 at 03:47:10
I agree Dennis Ng, £50m spent and we lost our goal scorer. If we spent £50-70m on a striker pre-season and still have the same results we would be under more pressure.
John Pierce
6 Posted 18/09/2017 at 04:04:37
His assessment of the game is well off. The early Man Utd goal, allowed them to sit back and let us have possession in none threatening areas. We did not force the issue, we did not play in their half or mount any sustained pressure.

His response to calm the rabid expectations of the Everton hoards, tell us how crap we are, how far away from competing we are. Beat us down so we are grateful for the gruel he serves us and a top half finish.

His Everton side is so far away from I recognise as my Everton it is stretching credulity. Heart, combative players with some silk to add a cutting edge, high tempo play sprinkled with a maverick or two.

I'm surprised we didn't play in the grey away strip – it would match our coach and his style perfectly.

God help the fella if he picks a lightweight side on Wednesday.

David Pearl
7 Posted 18/09/2017 at 04:53:12
I did see something today... a glimmer. We need another Rooney, one that can stay up top and another to make the passes that only he can from our team (now that Barry was allowed to leave).

The team he sent out wasn't so bad. The problem is how deep we set up and how little runners we have up front and from midfield that allow us to push up.

He's going to get one more transfer window, like it or not. Have no idea why Sandro was the first sub today... had hope but he was so bad. So bad that I wondered if he was going to be subbed himself. Has anyone mentioned we need a striker yet? Barkley could really add something to this team; as could Coleman and Bolasie.

The season isn't over, it's only just begun. Now let's get some points on the board.

Will Mabon
9 Posted 18/09/2017 at 06:28:13
I agree about Barkley, David. Perhaps if Koeman actually does play Niasse in some capacity, it lays a trail for backing down on previous decisions or disagreements, which might result in Barkley playing a part.

My own guess on the whole situation tends to be that Barkley doesn't want to play for Koeman after previous events, culminating in his not re-signing, not that he wants to leave Everton per se. If Koeman remains, I wonder would Barkley want to play?

There were signs of something yesterday – a bit of energy and spirit in the players, whether because or in spite of Koeman. This has been completely lacking since day one of this season, and is the absolute basis from which all else follows.

It's not false positivity to note a small glimmer of something just because we were finally hammered, it's an observation of reality – just as the same observation showed that Koeman totally took the wind out of the team's sails as he's done many times, by making substitutions almost guaranteed to cause problems. What is the guy up to?

I'm not supporting Koeman. It would suit me if he'd already gone, but if that isn't about to happen anytime soon, then maybe the players themselves can do enough somehow to prevent us falling any further into the crap. The other issues of missing personnel, the quality of what we bought and so on, are well known and have been discussed enough by others.

Keagan Rigney
10 Posted 18/09/2017 at 06:39:20
Koeman has just displayed that he doesn't have the desire, skill or even passion to defeat the big boys. Even if we win the next 6 games, why keep him? What, must we accept that we are always likely to finish 8th, 9th that's good enough?

By keeping him the board are saying its fine to lose as long as you lose to bigger opposition. Which is not acceptable by me an Everton fan. I want passion. I want desire. I want results. Results against big teams, not against weaker teams.

We have a great team that just needs a great manager who realizes that passion can fill that talent gap. Desire to win. Desire to be the best. The first step is we need to stop thinking we are not good enough and everytime Koeman speaks he basically is saying we not good enough.

Koeman needs to go back and listen to JFK who said "Ask not what Everton can do for you. Ask what you can do for Everton."

Peter Barry
11 Posted 18/09/2017 at 06:49:47
Now tell me how is the bullshit Koeman just spouted any different from Moyes capitulation to relegation at Sunderland at the start of last season?
Anthony Hughes
12 Posted 18/09/2017 at 07:21:38
You wouldn't want Koeman in the trenches with you. Suffering from a serious bout of Surrender Monkey Syndrome.
Nitesh Kanchan
13 Posted 18/09/2017 at 07:25:46
I am not surprised by the results, never gonna be until Koeman is sacked or he changes his tactics and his stubborn stance of not playing likes of Niasse, Lookman, Lennon and Mirallas and dropping some of his favourites. I have zero hope with this clueless manager.

Meanwhile, Niasse was with the away fans yesterday. Nice gesture from him.

Iain Love
14 Posted 18/09/2017 at 07:41:33
The next 3 games will decide Koeman's fate.
Steve Solomon
15 Posted 18/09/2017 at 08:02:30
WTF?!? All that money spent and his expectations are the same as last season? I'm worried about our future.

Yes I do understand that the players brought in need time to gel, but he is playing a defensive set-up and we're leaking goals heavily. Didn't someone once say that attack is the best form defense?

I say all-out attack. Fuck the consequences – we are losing because we are not trying to score goals. No runners off the front men at all. I noticed quite a few times during the last few games that the players on the ball are struggling to find team mates to pass to, resulting in too many long passes sideways(!!!!). Again, WTF???

Liam Reilly
16 Posted 18/09/2017 at 08:21:53
These 'winnable' games include Arsenal, who we rarely beat, and Burnley, who have gone to Chelsea, Spurs and Liverpool and avoided defeat, so I wouldn't be that confident.

We'll be lucky to achieve the same as last season with no striker. Whomever is responsible for not replacing that classless tosser should be shown the door and our £6 million a year leader should be told to avoid his transfer deadline day sunny trips.

John Raftery
17 Posted 18/09/2017 at 08:34:29
We have sold our best player, not replaced him, and signed too many of the wrong type of players. As I said at the time we signed him, Sigurdsson was the wrong player for the wrong position at the wrong price. The fact we have been reduced to pumping long high balls for him to compete in aerial battles with defenders is proof of that.

Without a goal-scoring threat and without any pace in the team we will continue to find it very difficult to trouble any opponents. All the players can do at present is what they did yesterday. Show some spirit and try to make the best of what they have.

As for the manager he might try keeping the same team and formation for a game or two instead of constantly chopping and changing. At a time when players are struggling to settle into the team, the last thing they need is rotation.

Mike Berry
18 Posted 18/09/2017 at 08:39:54
I think our expectations are just to score a goal at the moment!
Dave Evans
19 Posted 18/09/2017 at 08:40:29
We had a longer competitive pre-season than most so the mitigating argument of transition periods and players gelling is wearing thin.

Although there were signs of hope from the Man Utd game, the next seven fixtures, ending with the Arsenal game at home, will allow fair judgement of where we really are and of Koeman. If there is not significant improvement in results or the generally ponderous football, he certainly should not be given another transfer window in my opinion.

Will Mabon
21 Posted 18/09/2017 at 08:55:36
Just for the sake of masochism, when were we last at 18th in the table, and when did we last have a run of such poor results?
Charles Brewer
22 Posted 18/09/2017 at 09:00:06
I woke up this morning and was disappointed to see the Cloghead still employed by Everton. Mourhino is absolutely right. If you spend £140 million pounds you expect to do better. But then "Our Worst Ever Manager" had succeeded in print the club in the relegation slots.

It would not be so bad if the team had played well, or at least with guts, or with some sense of organisation, or that the players bought seemed to be as good as the ones on the U23s. Or if the manager appeared to have a clue.

If I were Moshiri, I'd sack this moron and say "Sue me for any compensation, and I'll wreck your 'career'". I'd get Unsworth in for Wednesday and I'd lend (or give) Martina, Klaassen and Sigurdsson to any lower league team anywhere that would take them.

I'd then get Kenny, Davies, Lookman, Lennon, Calvert-Lewin and Rooney in a room and tell them they are now the heart of the team.

Will Mabon
23 Posted 18/09/2017 at 09:03:44
Charles, you left Niasse out of that room...
Peter Murray
24 Posted 18/09/2017 at 09:09:47
We have to play to the strengths of the squad.

The new buys are all good players who have not suddenly become bad because they have moved to Everton. They read the play well, can tackle and pass. But they are not speed merchants.

Therefore we have to play more possession football (it doesn't have to be slow and deliberate) and attack in numbers with stealth and patience.

The long hoof up front might have been okay with Lukaku but it achieves nothing with the current squad.

We need a review of tactics, formation and style of play which reflects the present reality and not pine for a model which is irrelevant.

Charles Brewer
26 Posted 18/09/2017 at 09:18:43
Will, I'd probably add Niasse, not for his skill but for his fortitude on being insulted by a man not fit to lace his boots. Niasse doesn't seem to be much of a footballer (which is a bit of a problem) but here send to be able to take serious adversity well and with good grace.

And I think we would be looking forward to a refreshed Barkley rather sooner than medical reports might indicate.

Tony Heron
27 Posted 18/09/2017 at 09:21:08
I rarely comment on TW unless its about the Everton I grew up with in the 60s so I admit to being in the main an armchair supporter these days. I don't profess to be an expert otherwise I'd be a tv pundit (aka failed football manager), but here's my 2p worth on yesterday.

Overall, the level of performance was better than I expected, but the team set up is unbalanced, we seemed to be playing a formation of 9-1!

Some individuals are struggling Keane (sadly), Martina, Baines and Williams. Although I thought the latter had a decent game, one mistake and the killer goal arrived.

The turning point I believe was the substitutions. I thought Davies was giving Man Utds back four problems by continually running at them. When he went off, our attacking threat seemed to dissapear.

I thought Gana was glueing the midfield together, when he went Utd regained control.

Rooney, whatever his age, is class. No one else has his vision or dare I say it his desire. Mirallas tried but it was to late.

Finally, the penalty, surely that was a case of ball to hand? His hand was on the ground and didn't move. We wus robbed!!

Tony Marsh
28 Posted 18/09/2017 at 09:32:33
It's pathetic that anyone connected to the club would accept a 4-0 defeat as an indication of progress. Really pathetic. Whatever anyone thinks about deserving a better result, we did lose 4-0.

How many of us would care if we beat Man Utd 4-0 but they were all over us? It doesn't matter – a result is a result at the end of 90 minutes. If anyone out there fans, players, manager, tealady thinks losing 4-0 at this club is okay they should fuck right off.

If Koeman hasn't been sacked after the past 4 weeks of disastrous results he never will be. Kenwright is a known liar and conman. He has pulled the wool yet again with this skint billionaire Moshiri being pulled out of thin air. I trust neither of them. I advise you all to do the same and not listen to anything they say. Especially the Bramley-Moore joke stadium project.

Surely this farcical situation with the docks and Koeman cannot be allowed to continue. It is an embarrassment to the whole city not just EFC.

Sack Koeman and keep your mouths shut – that's my advice to Kenwright and Moshiri. We've had to listen to enough bullshit and watch crap football ever since Bungalow Bill took control of our club.

Were are the Blue Union these days. Maybe we can employ the sisters of Shankley for a while. One thing about the Kopites is they don't put up with shit for to long. Can't believe we're from the same City, the difference in what's acceptable.

Kevin Gillen
29 Posted 18/09/2017 at 09:38:32
I'm not happy, I must admit. I feel duped and could happily give up my season tickets now but I can't direct all my anger at the manager.

It appears to me he doesn't sign the players, that lies with Kenwright and Walsh. I expected more signings and better signings for a Europa League season and they haven't materialised. The failure to sign a striker and cover at left back is unforgivable. Also you need more players to tackle the Europa League.

I think Koeman is right. Be realistic, the run of games has been more than arduous, you can't expose young players all at once to the Premier League and we haven't suddenly become better than the six teams above us by our horse trading in the transfer market. The £150 million spent has been recouped through the loss of several well paid passengers and, if Barkley had signed for Chelsea, our net spend would be approximately nil.

I would be very surprised to see Barkley ever play again in a blue shirt. I think he will rise miraculously like Lazarus from his sick bed in January just in time for a cut-price move to Spurs.

I don't believe in chopping and changing managers and I do feel we have bought some good players. I'm prepared to be patient and yesterday was some kind of improvement.

I thought Tom Davies was outstanding and Wayne Rooney is still a better player than anyone we had last season so there are things to build on. A home win against Bournemouth is a must.

John Charles
30 Posted 18/09/2017 at 09:49:29
I just wish Koeman had come out before I renewed my season tickets to tell me that this season – 2 of a 3 year plan? – would be a right off and I should just get ready for slow boring defensive turgid football.

Set my expectations from the off.

Tony Farrell
32 Posted 18/09/2017 at 10:01:11
Mr Koeman, some of your comments after the games are really pathetic:

You were surprised by Tottenham's physicality and shape... They (Atalanta) were prepared for the game... you weren't bothered by the Chelsea result...

Are you a football manager or are you just out for the bunce?

You're earning (don't all laugh at once) £6 mill a year, and you come out with shite like that!! Please someone tell this man that he is in charge of the greatest club on earth with the greatest fans... fans who won't be duped by endless drivel.

We love our club, and we want the players and manager to be on the same songsheet. He is out of his depth, he cannot manage Everton.

To the powers that be, please give Unsy and Big Joe the reigns till Christmas at least; the one thing we would see is commitment and Jonjoe Kenny. Pride in the shirt is paramount – something Ronald dosen't understand.

Carl Taylor
33 Posted 18/09/2017 at 10:03:37
So, to summarise, the man who is supposed to motivate and inspire his players to give 100% and over-achieve in every game, has just said to the nation that we can't make the top 6 and we are aiming for 7th. Well that is me off to the ticket office to get myself a ticket for Wednesday night, because the Blue Boys will be well pumped up after that speech.

In addition, why does he always refer to 'Everton'? He never says 'We' or 'My Club' or 'My Team'. He has no attachment to this club, like it isn't worthy to have him.

I want him gone now. I hope we win all the remaining games this season, so I am not hoping for a run of defeats over these next 4 home games. But if Kenwright is as Big a Blue as he suggests, then surely the comments by Koeman must make him want to tell him to fuck right off from this club, the arrogant prick!

By the way, his motivational comments above must be sending shockwaves out to all the top strikers out there. You can imagine are previous No 1 target, Giroud, reading those comments and thinking, "Merde, I missed the boat there. I could and should have been part of that project to finish in 7th this season".

Aaarrrggghhhhh!

Andrew Clare
34 Posted 18/09/2017 at 10:06:06
He's beginning to sound like Moyes. Next thing we know, he will be talking about knives to gunfights.

Lowering expectations to keep his job... I want a manager who doesn't have a ceiling. Someone with ambition, someone who knows how to set up a team to win.

These dour types just get everyone down.

John Hammond
35 Posted 18/09/2017 at 10:06:55
Niasse to start against Sunderland, score a hat-trick, and save our season.
Kevin Tully
36 Posted 18/09/2017 at 10:18:56
A simple question: Even if he does 'turn things around,' what will he achieve? Another 7th place finish?

You don't win anything when you set your team up like we witnessed yesterday. For the salary the club is offering (or even more, if the right candidate becomes available), we could have the choice of 99% of managers in world football.

We could, and should, start that search right now.

Alasdair Mackay
37 Posted 18/09/2017 at 10:19:26
It's not about unrealistic expectation, Ronald. It's about a complete lack of balance to the squad and to every side you seem to put out.

It's about treating professionals (like Niasse) like naughty school children for no reason other than you don't fancy them.

It's about alienating one of our most talented players to the point where he wants to leave the club he has supported all his life - and then not appearing to give a shit.

It's about refusing to play anyone with any pace ever (despite having Lennon, Mirallas and Lookman currently available).

It's about not a single player in the 1st team squad showing genuine improvement under your leadership.

It's about not seeing Everton as a stepping stone for you to "a big job".

I don't care about finishing 4th this season. I care about Everton getting better and a long-term plan for sustained success. And I don't see you as part of it. Let's be honest – neither do you. As soon as Everton have a run of good results you will be Tweeting Barcelona all the headlines.

Go spend your money! I am done with you!

James Macdonald
38 Posted 18/09/2017 at 10:33:10
Andrew (#34) – I think what you are looking for is Martinez.
Tony Everan
39 Posted 18/09/2017 at 10:36:10
We will not improve against decent teams until we have one or realistically two top quality strikers.

We have no goal threat to bother the teams above us , and if we sneak one they will score more.

Improvement will be perceived to have happened when we play lesser teams and scrape wins. Believe me, I will take that for now. Mainly because we have no choice.

Real improvement will not happen until when we can get at least one quality striker in January . And we get Coleman and, to a lesser extent, Bolasie back firing on all cylinders.

Andrew Clare
40 Posted 18/09/2017 at 11:08:57
James (#38),

He talked the talk but didn't walk the walk. There are good managers out there and with our resources they would do a good job.

Brent Stephens
41 Posted 18/09/2017 at 11:13:38
Will #9 balanced post.
James Stewart
42 Posted 18/09/2017 at 11:18:41
@36 in agreement. The low expectations of this club and many of my fellow blues makes me sick. We are further away from the top 4 than when Koeman started, he won't extend his contract so I see zero point in keeping him around. Give Unsworth a go til Christmas and you never know we might actually get a bit of pride back at the club. The set up yesterday was pathetic.
Brent Stephens
43 Posted 18/09/2017 at 11:21:30
My heart yearns for a Lukaku. Some might say his goal yesterday didnt matter as the game was already won. Of course it mattered. January signings now crucial.
Clive Mitchell
44 Posted 18/09/2017 at 11:30:50
Will, 21 - we were 20th after six games on 25 September 2010. We had three points from 3 draws. Finished 7th! Such a run of results you probably have to go back to Mike Walker.
Charles Barrow
45 Posted 18/09/2017 at 11:40:10
So we expect too much? If our expectations are to finish 'like last year' why spend £140 million?

Koeman is a fraud. He seems quite arrogant and one of those 'my way or the highway' characters. That's okay if you're a managerial genius but pretty damaging if you're just stubborn and unimaginative.

Ernie Baywood
47 Posted 18/09/2017 at 11:45:05
James #43 "Pride".

For all we slate them, the last two managers did do that. Moyes turned us from our 'new' status as strugglers back to being relevant. Martinez gave us such an exciting new era... that 13-14 season was brilliant to watch. Young players expressing themselves under a manager that genuinely thought he could win things. I'll always have a soft spot for him because he was ambitious – if ultimately just not good enough.

How did we get to this though? A manager who doesn't give a fuck about the club, churning out crap football, creating nothing, seemingly without any strategy, and an ageing team.

... and it's costing us a fortune!

John G Davies
48 Posted 18/09/2017 at 11:54:22
I've backed him to the hilt from day one. I don't want to hear his target for this year is "same as last year". Not acceptable that statement.
Simon Bates
49 Posted 18/09/2017 at 11:56:04
Well rather interestingly, in the interview I have just read, Ronald has hinted that basically if we don't win the next 4 home matches he'll walk.

He declared that every manager with a big squad has doubts about formations and which players to use, that's normal, but this is different... I ask why, why? We have 4 home games and normally if we don't win, it is time to stop.

I don't know but I think he wants out; it's not that he's lost the players, I mean, half have only just signed for him.

The dressing room has lost him, he's lost interest when he's realised this is a big club with serious intentions and he's out of his managerial depth. Please stop linking the likes of Pardew and Big Sam; it has to be Unsworth. Every big manager was started somewhere, Unsworth has obviously got something going for him.

I would imagine it's a lot harder to build a title-winning team, with all the characteristics needed in a player throughout a whole season, using seasoned professionals rather than young immature boys really, most with more money than sense.

Tom Bowers
50 Posted 18/09/2017 at 11:59:15
Despite who the opposition have been, this has been a very bad run. Getting wins in up coming games against Sunderland or Bournemouth will not change things. The team is a mess and there are no excuses except bad individual performances and management.

They have so much talent but are playing without any conviction and look like a sure fire relegation candidate. Yesterday's starting eleven was bound to lose right from the off although it only took 3 minutes despite all those defensive players. Woeful. Koeman is a phony.

Danny Halsall
52 Posted 18/09/2017 at 12:18:03
@43 I have to agree when you say yesterday was a bit of a joke in terms of how we set up. When I saw the line-up I thought we had no chance at 3 points, then when we sat back after 1 minute of play you knew that we would be inviting pressure with no pace to hit them on the counter.

After their first goal I was pleasantly surprised at how well we reacted, especially for large parts of the 2nd half, but in the end a 4-0 loss is a thrashing, whether you deserved it or not.

I have said on another thread that I don't think it is time for Koeman to go just yet, he should be at least given the next 4 games considering they are winnable and although not an excuse for poor form, our first few fixtures have been as tough as I can ever remember.

Hopefully we can get an overdue win against Sunderland in midweek and that will give us a bit of confidence going into the next Premier League game.

Paul Goodchild
53 Posted 18/09/2017 at 12:56:29
Forget Lukaku. He doesn't deserve our attention now. A convenient arrangement for 4 years but certainly no love lost on either side.

Koeman now has to be judged on the next 3 league games. At least 7 points will be needed. That with 2 cup victories would restore some confidence hopefully and prepare us for Arsenal, Leicester Lyon, etc. Anything less and questions will have to be asked.

I feel we are now entering a crucial few weeks for our club and I hope the fans really get behind the team in the next 2 league matches. A museum like atmosphere and getting on the players backs will help no one. The team need our full support and backing in the vital games ahead.

George Cumiskey
54 Posted 18/09/2017 at 12:57:45
The same as last season! What a statement to come out with after spending £150 million in the summer. It beggars belief that the owner of a club who has backed him all the way, can let him get away with saying that.
Greg Hasbrouck
56 Posted 18/09/2017 at 13:09:08
Yes, we spent £140M, but had we sold Barkley we would have spent next to nothing. We're a team without its two best players from last season (Lukaku and Barkley), trying to get 8 new players to come together as a cohesive unit, still missing two starters (Coleman and Bolasie) and on a run of matches against the Top 4 teams in the Premier League. Taken as a whole, is it any surprise we are where we are?

My hope is we use this season to figure out what works, which players we bought turn out to be as good as we thought, which were not, and then make the right moves in the summer transfer window to adjust. Frustratingly, that looks to be the striker and defender Koeman was saying all along that he needed.

Soren Moyer
57 Posted 18/09/2017 at 13:22:16
What Mourinho says is a lie. We sold Lukaku, Deulofeu and Cleverley for £110M, then spent £150M on new players. Man Utd on the other hand don't have to sell their best players, they just go out and buy the player they want no matter the costs.

Mourinho is totally wrong and his comment is misleading..

John Hammond
58 Posted 18/09/2017 at 13:28:35
Some Wayne Rooney stats from yesterday's game:

- 67.2% pass completion rate worst out of every player to start (excluding keepers).

- Was dispossessed and lost the ball with a poor touch most often out of any player on the pitch.

- Did not create a single chance.

Dave Whitwell
59 Posted 18/09/2017 at 13:29:12
The Atalanta game was a turning point for me, a little similar to the Liverpool game at the end of the Martinez era, I have rarely seen a side as poorly prepared and lacking in any imagination, passion or drive. This was a competition that we worked so hard to be a part of last throughout last season and to put ourselves on the back foot so early in the group is criminal.

So onto Man Utd, a reaction after the previous 3 games definitely needed. After the slow start we grew into the game and actually started to play a little football, albeit I always felt Man Utd had several gears left to move into.

For the life of me though I cannot understand the substitutions and that is Koeman's fault, not the board or the absence of Lukaku!

We were desperate for pace and energy and yet he takes of one of our youngest and most energetic players on the pitch in Davies, then compounds things even further by removing Gueye who I felt was controlling the midfield.

I thought Rooney was awful unlike many above, I lost count of the number of times he lost the ball. I'm hoping this to be a short term thing until his head is fully back in the game, as I thought he was great in the first couple.

I have to say though the player I have most issues with right now is Schneiderlin; every time I watch him I cannot see what everyone else does, he is extremely neat and tidy when passing backwards or sideways, but simply ducks the responsibility of making a positive pass forwards. Also I don't see him protecting the back 3/4 enough which surely is he prime duty, for me.

Both he and Rooney should have been removed yesterday before Davies/Gueye. I don't believe the result would have been any different but at the minute I'd settle for some positivity.

I think Koeman has had his time now and the board needs to move now, all the talk is about the next 4 games but by that time we could easily be out of the league cup, to far adrift in the Europa League and still in the bottom 3 with only the FA Cup to play for. I hope i'm wrong and either the board react quickly, or Koeman proves me wrong and I have to eat my words, but he is simply not the manager to take this club forwards.

Chris Jones [Burton]
60 Posted 18/09/2017 at 13:36:07
John #59.

"Did not create a single chance."

Er, he had two shots as I recall, one of which required saving. If there's a criticism it's that he didn't score. And I've read a piece by ex-Red Danny Murphy today which describes Rooney's peformance as "sensational". He writes...

"Rooney led the line on his own for much of the game, made chances and held the ball up brilliantly. / He could and should have scored too, but even that opportunity in the second half only came about through his own endeavour and creativity."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41301955

Sometimes stats do not give the whole picture - the pass completion for instance, as an isolated front man up top (for much of the game the most isolated player on the pitch) you can't expect him to retain posession for ever, or complete every meagre pass that's available.

Steavey Buckley
61 Posted 18/09/2017 at 13:37:38
John Hammond: "The pass completion is a misleading statistic when considering how a team plays."

If a team passes a lot, sideways and backwards their completion rate will be higher than a team that tries to play decisive attacking passes, when these passes are tricker to complete, because they need pin point accuracy to give maximum effect.

Steve Ferns
63 Posted 18/09/2017 at 13:46:36
I see Koeman's "leaving the transfers to Walsh" comment as a deflection. He's trying to pass off the blame of not getting a striker away from him. But not he used future tense so he didn't distance himself from the striker transfer fiasco in the summer.

Hopefully he'll give Walsh free rein to sign anyone Walsh thinks is good enough. The dithering in the summer did no one any favours and we are paying the penalty right now.

Ian Burns
64 Posted 18/09/2017 at 13:46:45
Kevin 36 and George 55 - simple posts agree completely.

When Koeman was appointed, I said on TW at the time I was not a supporter of the man but would give him time and support.

Crystal Palace could see what was happening with De Boer and made a change (a bad one in my opinion but a change it was).

Why oh why Moshiri cannot see what the majority of Everton supporters are seeing is a mystery to me. The man should go before irrepairable damage is done and Moshiri has the perfect excuse after "the same as last season" statement. In fact the way it is going it might turn out that I would be happy with last season's seventh but that is my inner turmoil and Moshiri has no such excuse.

Steve Ferns
65 Posted 18/09/2017 at 13:48:56
Profiling Everton Recruitment Guru Steve Walsh
Link
Tony Everan
66 Posted 18/09/2017 at 13:53:18
Yes Steve, the stats don't tell the full story, he played his heart out until the engine spluttered around 75 mins... He was the main reason we were in the game with 15 mins left.
Soren Moyer
67 Posted 18/09/2017 at 14:04:57
I want him OUT! He is just trying to buy time for himself. Thrashing after thrashing! Have we forgotten about 5-0 thumping at chelsea last season? And 3-0 at mordor? I hate him already!
Thomas Lennon
68 Posted 18/09/2017 at 14:05:14
#58 Man United don't have to sell their best players?

Ronaldo? A matter of time before De Gea goes. Barca and Neymar. Every club has its price; theirs is a little higher than ours, that is all.

Lewis Barclay
69 Posted 18/09/2017 at 14:10:40
FFS.

Man Utd scored 4 more goals than us.
Atalanta scored 3 more goals than us.
Spurs scored 3 more goals than us.

I can make the problem of wanting to "not lose" go away easily by not caring. What we should be doing, you half wit, is actually "not losing".

This guy gets paid £6m to tell fans to manage their expectations. Are you kidding?

Liam Reilly
70 Posted 18/09/2017 at 14:12:22
John (#59)
There were a number of shocking performances on that field yesterday but Rooney's wasn't one of them. He may have found his man fewer that others in the middle but at least he tried to pass the fucking thing forward.

I don't know how many times we had the ball in their final third and it ultimately ended up back with Jageilka or Williams for another hoof.

just appalling football to watch and next up is Everton B; many of them with a point to prove.

Pete Clarke
71 Posted 18/09/2017 at 14:27:00
If we had just lost the last four games 1-0, then I would still be angry and disappointed. The fact that we have turned up like a non-league side makes my blood boil.

Then the man paid $6 mil a year to give us a team to be made up to watch comes out with all of this defeatist crap that makes us a laughing stock.

I was never a big lover of Duncan Ferguson but I would fly back from Oz and pick him up from Barlinnie myself after he serves his time for putting the head on Ronald Koeman.

Steve Ferns
72 Posted 18/09/2017 at 14:27:07
Okay Ronald, thanks for coming. My name is Robert, and this is Bill and that's Farad. Take a seat. So, we are very excited to meet you, and interview you for the Everton job. So, where do you think you take us?

Well, I know quite a bit about the team, having managed against them four times. I finished above them twice, but I think that I can take the team to 7th, best of the rest?

in your first season?

Yes, why not

and then in your second season?

Well, if you give me money to spend, I think we can do a little better.

There's over £200m to spend but you will have to sell John Stones, but we can probably hold onto Lukaku for a season. So how much better.

Great, Yes, I think we can do a little better.

What do you mean, 6th?

No, still 7th. We just do a little better.

And then in your third season?

If you give me another £200m we can even better?

A lot better?

Yes

Which position do you think you can achieve?

7th

7th?

7th, yes

After spending £400m?

Yes, but we do better.

ok, you're hired!

Sean Patton
73 Posted 18/09/2017 at 14:38:57
Lower your expectations, everyone, because scoring a solitary goal in 4 matches is beyond us.
Paul Doyle
74 Posted 18/09/2017 at 14:43:59
4-0 is 4-0 no matter how you curry it up and is not acceptable , to also blow –150m and say we will not improve is a hanging offence in my book as well, and for that alone he should be sacked, fucked off and not get a carrot from us.

Maynard Keynes said "When the facts change, I change my mind", so maybe Ronnie take note.

So, we can't score a goal? At least give Niasse a go until he proves otherwise.

Williams and Jagielka are finished? Play Holgate in his true position... what happened to Funes Mori?

Klaassen and Sandro are not ready? Swallow your pride and stick Barkley on, we are still paying his wages.

Martina cannot defend ? Then stick a right back on – Jonjoe Kenny.

To me, Koeman has morphed into a Dutch version of Moyes judging by his "dumbing down expectations" comments; this dope has wasted £200m since he arrived and not one player is an improvement on what was here beforehand. A fucking joke.

Howard Miller
75 Posted 18/09/2017 at 14:44:04
Sunderland
Bournemouth
Limassol
Burnley
Brighton

Five wins or the sack. End of.

Jerome Shields
76 Posted 18/09/2017 at 14:47:08
I find it a total insult that the current manager of Everton should scoff at my team, a great club and their ambitions. A team that he managed for a year and is 80 percent built by him.

The truth is that Koeman is not fit to manage the great club Everton and nobody expects that he will ever achieve anything at Everton.

I expect that Everton will struggle to survive in the Premier League this season. I have no confidence in the board to take the decision to dismiss Koeman in time.

No forward player will join Everton in January under a manager with such a attitude. Barkley will leave in January. Our only chance is Niasse will play and he will perform , hopefully under a different manager. He has the right attitude.

I will always support Everton even in the Championship if it comes to that with a manager who respects Everton Football Club.

John Hammond
77 Posted 18/09/2017 at 14:59:37
Chris #61: Should have said didn't create a chance for any of his team mates. He had a better game than his previous few but sensational, I don't think so.
Brian Williams
78 Posted 18/09/2017 at 15:08:26
Simon Bates (#50).

Gotta say loved "Our Tune" back in the day, nice one.

On a more serious "note" (see what I did there?) I think you made some good points.

I think Koeman didn't realize what he was getting himself into and how much would be expected of him. He gives the impression we should be happy to finish seventh. And for a manager to come out and publicly state we should expect to finish "the same as last season" after all the players we've signed is a disgrace.

Where's the fucking project now, Ronald???

Stan Schofield
79 Posted 18/09/2017 at 15:10:29
I've been very patient with Koeman, giving him time. But the accumulating evidence of his lack of tactical skill, and lack of ability in man-management, has led to to the inevitable conclusion that he does not have the calibre to manage Everton successfully.

This conclusion is only reinforced every time he opens his mouth to the media, with his defensive and inept utterings. The only managerial talent this man possesses is his ability to divert criticism onto others, and evade accountability. The sooner he goes the better.

Brian Williams
80 Posted 18/09/2017 at 15:11:26
Funny that, Steve (#73). Actually managed a laugh (may have been wind though) on an otherwise bleak day for Evertonians.
Clive Rogers
81 Posted 18/09/2017 at 15:14:08
I may be in the minority on TW, but I still have faith in Koeman to turn the ship around and make progress.

Let's be honest, before Moshiri the club had been in decline for 20 years and had he not taken over, Martinez would have remained manager and we may well have been a championship team now.

It was always going to take longer than one season to sort out, especially with Lukaku leaving. We may not have brought in all the players we wanted, but there has been a major overhaul of the playing staff and some new players are taking time to come to terms with the Premier League. We have still not managed to get rid of some of the unwanted players RM brought in.

On a positive note, I thought Sandro looked much more of a player against Man Utd than at any time previous. He should now be given a run. The same may apply to Klaassen, although he may need a little longer. Keane is going through a sticky patch but is a good player and will come good, as will Sigurdsson who is also not up to speed, perhaps because of his missing pre-season.

I feel sure that by Xmas we will see a much improved team.

Frank Crewe
82 Posted 18/09/2017 at 15:20:22
It's not just a question of how much we spent. Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea all spent more than we did. It's also a question of the players other clubs already had. Spurs and Liverpool didn't spend as much as us because they didn't have to. They already had plenty of top players and just needed to strengthen in a few positions.

Also a lot of our spending was on young players who are currently in the U23s or on loan.

Koeman's mistake has been in buying a lot of players to rotate in the various competitions we are currently in. In my opinion it would have been better to buy fewer, but better quality players. A striker, 2nd centre half etc. and used the U23s to pad out the first team squad for the Europa, and League cup instead of loaning them out. They would have gained some first team experience and we wouldn't be sacrificing the PL as we are now.

Of course whatever we think it's all water under the bridge now and we are where we are.

The real problem is that Koeman doesn't have a clue what his best side is or what formation they should play. We are back were we always are. Hoping to get results against our fellow also-rans and maybe a decent cup run.

We need a manager with vision and Koeman simply doesn't have it. Seems to be the 2nd season is what does them in. The fans will give you a pass on your 1st season but you own the 2nd season so you had better make it a good one. Especially if you raise expectations like Martinez did by finishing 5th in his first season and Koeman has done by spending so much money on so many players.

Brian Porter
83 Posted 18/09/2017 at 15:22:26
Before anyone talks about giving Koeman more time, it's worth remembering that a heck of a lot of Saints fans were happy to see the back of him. But let's also remember what happened to Valencia under Koeman's leadership. I know I'm repeating much of what some already know, but here goes, and this is a short version of what took place there.

Koeman first admitted he was losing control if the team then went to extreme lengths to try to correct (his) mistakes. He told three key players, Canizares, Albelda and Anglo they would no longer feature in his plans and they could look for different clubs, (sounding familiar so far?).

Santiago Canizares, a world - class goalkeeper said he would consider retirement if Koeman stood by his decision to leave him out of the team for the rest of the season. Barcelona immediately registered an interest in him.

David Albelda took legal action against the club to get his contract terminated after calling a press conference to announce his frustration with the management (Koeman), stating that he deserved better than public humiliation.

Angulo also spoke to the press, saying that the club's veterans were being treated with little or no respect by Koeman.

After Athletic Bilbao, who hadn't scored more than twice at home all season, hit five against Koeman's Valencia, Raul Albiol of Valencia said, "The dressing room is like a funeral," and the funeral was Koeman's. The fans and players couldn't wait to get rid of him.

When he took over from the sacked Sanchez-Florescent, Valencia were four points off the top of La Liga. They then took only 18 out of a possible 66 points, and were 35 points off the top and had won only four games, and sat two points above the relegation zone.

He presided over a divided dressing room who (surprise, surprise), found themselves totally at a loss with his tactics, with Joaquin saying Koeman's tactics had them running around like headless chickens (again, sound familiar?) and the only reason they eventually escaped relegation was that the players got together and dumped his tactics and played it their way. The final nail in his coffin.

Now, if anyone can't see the similarities between then and now, they have to be deaf, dumb and blind. What the hell was Moshiri doing when he appointed Koeman? Did he not read the man's record? Didn't he pick up any of the vibes coming out of Southampton?

At least Valencia eventually took action to get rid of this awful man before he got them relegated. Has Moshiri got the guts to admit his mistake and do the right thing to save us from similar humiliation?

When you consider he could have gone for Premier League winner Pellegrini, or Europa League winner Emery at the time, it does raise a question or two about how much in-depth football knowledge Mr. Moshiri really possesses.

Everything in Koeman's past spells out DISASTER in capital letters. He almost destroyed Valencia, a club with a long and proud history (sound familiar again). For God's sake don't let him do the same to us. If it takes fan protests a la Valencia then let's do it, let the club know how we feel.

Start an online petition, anything, something, but we need to get this one-man wrecking ball out of our beloved Everton.

Nigel Munford
84 Posted 18/09/2017 at 15:23:43
Just looking at who we've played over the last few weeks, 4 of the current top 5, which also were 4 of last seasons top 5. We are 5 points from 5th place. Am I being over positive here? Even Mourinho said he wouldn't have wanted our start to the season.

Let's just see what happens over the next five to six weeks. A win against Sunderland mid week will help the teams confidence, and move us forward in that competition, as they haven't won in the Championship yet, so we should be able to win that one, shouldn't we?

Brian Williams
85 Posted 18/09/2017 at 15:37:08
I don't mind a hard fought defeat against the top four (well I do but y'know what I mean) but to lose in the way we have is unacceptable.

After reading my namesakes post at 84, I think the club should act now and get rid. David Unsworth could NOT do any worse.

That Valencia story will give me nightmares!!!


Ian Burns
86 Posted 18/09/2017 at 15:48:22
Brian - 84 - Can you send your post to Moshiri please before it is too late?
Tim Sharpe
87 Posted 18/09/2017 at 15:50:42
I have no objection to losing if we tried at least; to lose with no effort and through fear is not acceptable
John Pierce
88 Posted 18/09/2017 at 16:00:48
Clive, sorry but there's nothing at all to back up your faith, unless its blind faith, in that post.

Nothing constructive, positive to support Koeman's continued tenure. Infact its looking backwards andcomparing him with Martinez!? Tell me what he's done right, evidence of good performances, innovative tactical solutions for different games.

Whatabout the football has been memorable about Koeman's reign; Arsenal & City at home thats it.

The evidence as in his record, is not trending positively anywhere.

John Daley
89 Posted 18/09/2017 at 16:05:02
Chris @60,

Danny Murphy doing his best 'Little Big Man' there.

Ok, Rooney was among the better performers of a pretty piss poor bunch, but to say his display against Man United was "sensational" is disengenous flattery on par with Paul Daniels publicly dubbing his 'Despicable Me' beaked missus the bloody "lovely" Debbie Mcgee.

Rooney put in the effort and tried to make something happen (which is the least one would expect of someone with a point to prove turning out against their former club), but he fluffed his lines when presented with two great chances to drag Everton back into the game. If he buried them both (as he should have done), then you could certainly understand people bigging him up as being "sensational" on the day. The way things actually went down makes Murphy's praise sound like nothing more than a bit of backslapping support for an arl mate having to build his reputation back up.

For me, Rooney has been a big part of the problem with the poorly balanced sides Koeman has been sending out this season. It's problematic playing him up top, as he no longer possesses the necessary physical attributes to pose more than a passing threat anywhere along the forward line and he looks as though he well and truly knows it himself; hence his dropping further and further back to try and find a bit of free space where he can put his foot on the ball without fear of being instantly brushed aside, out-jumped or out-paced.

Whilst some people will lap up his 'looking to get on the ball', it conversely leads to the closing off of an outlet vital for any team looking to get out and up the pitch, whilst further clogging up an already fully congested midfield area. Sandro has been guilty of similar in his time on the pitch, dropping deep and haring around in areas where a forward can't harm any fucker (although the impetus there seems to be 'Scrappy Doo'ish desperation to make some sort of mark, rather than him being physically shagged or incapable of running the other way).

Brian Porter
91 Posted 18/09/2017 at 16:31:58
Ian #86, my post is actually #83, but I wish I could, as you suggest, send it to Moshiri.
John Pierce
92 Posted 18/09/2017 at 16:35:07
"Now we have four games at home in different competitions and we need to win. If you don't win it is better to stop."

A Koeman quote. Is he saying he'd walk if we don't win them?

👀

Raymond Fox
93 Posted 18/09/2017 at 16:35:38
I don't want Koeman as manager but all this we've spent £140m is a red herring. Yes, we have but we have lost Lukaku and others, and if Barkley and Niasse had left we would have spent ---- all!

Have we a player apart from Barkley and maybe Coleman that the usual top six might want? I cant see one.

We are up the creek in January as well, all the decent players we might want to sign are twice as expensive as they were 6 months ago.

We've well and truly missed the boat.

I'm all for positivity, but I'm also realistic.

Tony Marsh
94 Posted 18/09/2017 at 16:50:09
Brian @ 83

Well said mate and its a similar story at Benfica who were struggling under Koeman and @ AZ Alkmar who lost 7 of their first 16 games under Koeman's tenure.

Ronald Koeman is a fraud who lives off his reputation as a top player. Top player doesn't equate to top manager though, does it? Ask Ruud Hullit and Frank De Boer.

Steve Ferns
95 Posted 18/09/2017 at 16:51:07
If appoint a new manager, maybe the flood of bargains in the market might spark the merry-go-round into life and we could get the players we need?

What bargains I hear you ask?

The Everton half-price fire sale:

Gylfi Sigurdsson yours for just £20m,
Davy Klaasen a bargain £10m,
Sandro a knock down £3m,
Rooney £1m, but must provide free chauffer,
sign all of the above and you get a free Cuco Martina and Omar Niasse.

(just a joke guys - I do rate Sigurdsson and Klaasen, and I have hopes for Sandro)

Darryl Ritchie
96 Posted 18/09/2017 at 18:10:05
When I saw the fixtures list to open the season, I truly thought we would only have 3 points after the first 5 matches. That we have 4 is a bonus.

That said, it's not that we lost. It's the way we lost that I find the most troubling. We have been played off the park, completely surrendered, ran out of gas in 3 of the 4, and but for a few flashes of brilliance, (and some pure luck) would have drawn or even lost, the other two.

This is more than lack of confidence. This project is in big trouble, and I'm not sure Koeman has the skills to make it right.

Four games to sort it out.

David Israel
97 Posted 18/09/2017 at 18:12:52
Dennis (#4), I'm with you. In my whole life, and I'm past 60 now, I don't think I have come across many people as repellent as the Stupid One. Whenever he talks, his main aim is to hurt or denigrate someone. He's the perfect definition of double-tongued.

If his teams made you dream, like Guardiola's sometimes do, you could sort of forgive him. But no: they're as boring and cynical as he is.

Tom Harding
98 Posted 18/09/2017 at 18:40:08
I agree with the sentiments expressed in Will Mabon's post pretty much to the letter.

I'm not chomping at the bit with the idea of getting rid of the manager now which won't achieve much unless we were to bring in someone so outstanding that it was a no-brainer. He still just about deserves some more time and patience but I just feel a numb sense of disappointment that Koeman seems already to lack any ambition to get Everton playing positively.

I think we should be aiming to at least get higher than 7th and challenge the top 5. That's different to saying that I think we will be able to get in the top 4 or that we should be in the top 4 (no team should be). I just want to watch an Everton that plays to win and makes me proud and one that does so without a kamikaze defence that's all!

David Hughes
99 Posted 18/09/2017 at 18:40:41
I cannot believe this prat! We need to be realistic... Koeman, do one mate, you are no Everton manager.

Look, I know we have new players, a lot. It takes time to gel... blar blar! But not what I want to hear from the man in charge.

The team lacks any spirit, any balance; we will all be crying when we get done by Sunderland.

Sack this prick now. Let Unsworth take it on, at least we will see some spirit and heart, for god sake. Fight for the shirt, die for it if you have to...

Paul Doyle
100 Posted 18/09/2017 at 18:44:38
Would you say we have improved or moved to the next level with Cloggerhead's signings compared with what he inherited?

Howard / Robles – Stekelenburg / Pickford

Baines / Jagielka / Stones / Coleman – Williams / Keane / Martina

Besic / Barry / McCarthy / Cleverley – Gana / Schneiderlin

Barkley / McGeady / Mirallas – Klaassen / Sigurdsson / Rooney

Lukaku / Kone / Deulofeu – Sandro / Calvert-Lewin

Just a thought...

Steavey Buckley
101 Posted 18/09/2017 at 18:45:12
I have not a clue where Everton will end up this season. The team is so incoherent on the team sheet and on the pitch only mystic Meg may know. But one thing for certain, Everton are 3rd from bottom, and could get worse.
Joe Moran
102 Posted 18/09/2017 at 18:50:25
I have been a reader with interest of ToffeeWeb sine 2015, but never a participator of the forum, but today I just knew that I have to put my argument forward and see if it holds any water with any other Evertonians who are seeing our club become the laughing stock of European Football!

1. Koeman & his Dutch Team have no connection to EFC or the City, never mind the history of our club.

2. Koeman does not want this job anymore & either he will be fired after Christmas (when we will still be in the bottom 3) or he will negotiate a settlement figure and resign.

3. Koeman as a great footballer cannot be questioned, but how many great footballers have made great managers?

4. Dutch football has been slow and unadventurous since 1990s, it's progress at International level on a par with our very own (uninspiring & a let down at major tournaments).

5. Why did our Chairman & new major shareholder not look at his and his coaching staff's employment history before offering him and his cronies more than £8 million in salaries?

Other people on this site have recently found the Valencia debacle Koeman left, which I was aware of last season, but if any of you have the time, look up Koeman's CV and his brother's CV; it makes horrendous reading if you look at it in detail.

Finally if Ronald and Erwin can't motivate teams in their own Country, how the fuck can they motivate our great team?

Richard Reeves
103 Posted 18/09/2017 at 19:08:36
How much would Sigurdsson go for now if Koeman was sacked and the next manager didn't see him as part of their plans? I'd say about £20-25M, and that's the worrying thing for me, that his signing was very much a statement of intent in backing the manager.

I can only hope Koeman does a Koeman and fucks off the whole board and then Unsworth is given the job.

Clive Rogers
104 Posted 18/09/2017 at 19:15:50
John (#88), perhaps some of it is blind faith. But it is based on what I think of the manager. I had the same for Kendall when he had his bad early patch and he came good. I believe Koeman will come through this and prove to be a top manager.
Barry Johnson
105 Posted 18/09/2017 at 19:24:24
I keep checking the ToffeeWeb page for news of Koeman's sacking, but once again I am disappointed. You cannot sell a 26-goal striker and not replace them with at least one or two strikers with a similar goal tally.

Money has ruined the game at every level and I can't bear to even check results for the last couple of seasons. I might revert to supporting Welsh rugby. At least they sometimes win.

Matt Nash
106 Posted 18/09/2017 at 19:29:11
I just can't knock the players at the moment,. Yes there's individual errors but they're being hung out to dry with absolute dog shit instructions and tactics. There's no out-ball for Jagielka, Keane or Williams when under pressure other than a hoof upfield.

There's no wide players to protect the full backs and stop the opposition's advancing wingers and full-backs running Baines and Martina ragged. We're being pushed back like a League 2 side defending against a Premier League side 1-0 down in an FA Cup tie, week after week.

How he's not changed his tactics is a mystery. And how Mr Koeman did not know this was going to happen vs Spurs, Chelsea and Man Utd is beyond me as they've been playing this way for fucking years, Ronald!!!!

Yes, I don't expect to beat the mentioned teams week-in & week-out but I expect to give them a run for their money, take points from them, and not embarrass ourselves week after week.

Martin Mason
107 Posted 18/09/2017 at 19:59:23
Strange isn't it that the coaches preach tip tap football avoiding all adventurous play for fear of losing the ball. What is obvious though is that there is nothing that induces panic and confusion like players who run at the defence and if sufficient intensity is provided to support the runner at the breakdown it can work. The teams who run at our midfield have destroyed us and there must be a place for this tactic in this day of gruel football.
Kim Vivian
108 Posted 18/09/2017 at 20:06:10
Our first match of the anticipated 'recovery run' is an absolute monster of a match. Lose that and we go 19th.

If that happens I don't think it will be the end of Koeman but he'll probably find himself with one foot out of the door.

Might be a good opportunity for someone to tap up Eddie Howe.

David Connor
109 Posted 18/09/2017 at 20:24:01
Is all this down-talking of the club, it's supporters, and the team some kind of reverse psychology? If it is, it isn’t fucking working.

Four huge games coming our way. We want to see results go our way. If not, this plantpot needs to go ASAP.

Anthony Burke
110 Posted 18/09/2017 at 20:57:42
Let's just follow the U23s... haha!

Yet another win. Well done, Blues!!!

Mark Morrissey
111 Posted 18/09/2017 at 22:11:28
Brian @ 83 if you need some money to hire the plane and the banner just give me the nod and I'll start the pot. You can have £100 providing your entire post is attached to the banner for all to read,

Excellent post at 83

John G Davies
112 Posted 18/09/2017 at 22:35:13
John Daley (#89).

"When presented with two great chances"

I only watched the game in real time and haven't looked back at it, so you can correct me if I'm wrong.

I recall the ball across the 18-yard line that he dragged wide. And the chance he created for himself with a block tackle.

Are you talking about different chances that he was presented with?

Brendan Fox
113 Posted 18/09/2017 at 22:43:38
Knives to a Gunfight Mk 2 mentality.

Happy like Mark @ 112 to chip in £100 to hire a plane with a 'Koeman Out' banner to get this dour Moyes Mk 2 (that's a diservice to Dreary!) charlatan out of the club before he can do any more damage.

Michael Kenrick
114 Posted 18/09/2017 at 22:45:51
There were two instances where shots came off De Gea's leg or shin... the first was Rooney. And the second when he and Sigurdsson got in close. So that would be at least three good chances to score if you include the shot dragged wide.
Martin Mason
115 Posted 18/09/2017 at 22:50:54
The last attempts at flying a banner resulted in humiliation for those who organised it, as it always will. Please don't support stupidity.
John G Davies
116 Posted 18/09/2017 at 22:59:29
Michael (#115).

They don't count. Only Man Utd's missed chances count.

Don Alexander
117 Posted 18/09/2017 at 23:06:06
Martin Mason @ #108 makes a very valid point. Why are we so very unwilling to "have a go", especially when we're bang average at "not having a go" and are consistently losing heavily as a consequence?

And I don't want to denigrate Unsworth but my heart sank when last season one of his players, I forget which one, went on and on about how proud he was about his own ball retention stats, to Unsworth's huge delight, like it was the be-all and end-all.

I mean I know it's a job an' all to some of these buggers but if I only wanna see a bloke do a job competently I might as well watch the binnies once a week. Me missus says they're pretty good after all.

Sigh!

Nigel Munford
118 Posted 18/09/2017 at 23:13:07
So if we sack him now who are we going to get? Realistically, have we a short list? Someone mentioned Eddie Howe, well he manages the team just below us. Amazing idea that one.
Robin Cannon
119 Posted 18/09/2017 at 23:22:21
Nigel (#119),

Why does this always come up? Someone's doing a shit job, and our argument is "Well, who else are we going to get?" as if that's some reason to keep him.

Hell, even Eddie Howe. That Bournemouth are below us in the table isn't really here nor there; given the massive disparity in resources, time in the Premier League, and stature of club, he's still doing a better job than Koeman. And he has done a clearly fine job the last several seasons. Not that it's a call for him to be our manager, but "they're below us in the table" is no argument.

Thomas Tuchel is out there, available, and highly rated. David Unsworth has demonstrated lots of promise in managing an excellent U-23 team. Managers can still come through the ranks and be successful.

That's a shortlist of three options without even thinking about it or researching it. And it's not like there aren't a lot of managers out there who'd be interested in the resources and quality of player that we still possess.

Don Alexander
120 Posted 18/09/2017 at 23:35:05
The project is to get qualified for the Champions League by the end of next season. That's going to require better players than we had last season, players who might queue up to play for the likes of Mourinho, Conte or Guardiola, or perhaps Koeman at a pinch.

But no, some of us seriously say let's offer them Unsy, Sam'my, Pul'y or Howe'y instead? The queue'll be non-existent. Get real folks, per-lease.

Brendan Fox
121 Posted 18/09/2017 at 23:47:35
Martin @116 – you say the last time a plane with banners was flown over the ground resulted in humiliation for those involved.

At present, and I am sure I am not alone in saying this, I already feel humiliation at watching the current shower we have seen since the tail end of last season.

Bring on additional humiliation I say if it gets a message across to the powers that be that the fanbase is getting restless and have lost or are loosing faith in Koeman to turn this current situation around.

If you still have faith in Koeman, you are entitled to that opinion as much as I am entitled to mine so please don't belittle mine as a stupid opinion if it differs from yours because you believe in supporting a different approach.

Nigel @ 119 – what would be the harm in giving Unsworth a crack as a caretaker manager until at least the January window? If it didn't look like it was working out for Unsworth by this point, then the club could look at getting in someone with more experience and a proven track record which in effect would give the club more time to do due diligence. I do not believe the situation could get much worse than it already is under Koeman.

Nigel Munford
122 Posted 18/09/2017 at 23:49:05
Robin, just putting it out there as it seems there's a lot on here want Koeman gone. Still think he will get time yet, Christmas will be the telling point I think, as we only have Arsenal of any quality between now and mid December.

As for Eddie Howe, yes he has done a good job the last few seasons, as has Koeman; he got Southampton into Europe, got us into Europe.

But I guess it's not up to us to put a short list together is it, it's up to the board. We'll just have to suffer the next poor choice.

Robin Cannon
123 Posted 18/09/2017 at 00:05:55
Yeah. I think the main distinction for Koeman is that he's had a 16-year managerial career of, at best, mixed success. When you're in your mid-50s and with a lengthy career behind you like that, it's unlikely that you're going to achieve huge "overnight" success.

If you're going to take a risk on someone who's done well at a small to mid sized club, then probably better to take the risk on someone young, who's still likely to grow and change in their career and improve.

But I agree with you about the board. If we move Koeman on, we'll end up with some other "low risk" appointment. Someone who'll keep us where we might expect to finish, no more.

At the level below the richest, most successful current teams, the appointments that have the chance to bring the most success are probably the appointments that have the chance to blow up in our faces, too.

And it's not an easy job. Of the managers in my time watching Everton, there are only two who weren't pretty much exactly who I expected us to hire. Who weren't the "safe" choice. Mike Walker, who was a disaster. And David Moyes, who in his early years genuinely took us significant strides forward from where we were when he took over.

Paul Holmes
124 Posted 19/09/2017 at 00:29:55
We actually looked a bit better on Sunday despite the result, and the stats say we had more possession than Man Utd (I can't remember the last time we had more possession than United at Old Trafford). Maybe things are about to change for the better.
Selby Wells
125 Posted 19/09/2017 at 05:13:01

The angst shown among us fans to our poor start to the season has been understandable because, for the first time in a very long time, the club seemed to be getting its act together in the transfer market by doing the majority of its business early. Without wanting to go over the same discussions as other threads, there have been glaring omissions.

That said... EIGHT new first team players have been brought in and SIX let go (excluding youngsters and loanees).

That's one hell of a turnover in playing staff that need to learn how to play together. Despite this, we haven't played the same team in consecutive games even though we have played TEN first-team games this season. It's no wonder the performances have been disjointed as any promising combinations have been curtailed before they have the chance to flourish (I have no clue whether Klaassen or Sigurdsson will be successful because they haven't played in successive combinations).

While the result on Sunday was the biggest defeat of the four in a row ,there were some positives in the general play.

In past seasons, the League Cup has been used to rotate the team and blood youngsters and using it as a naughty boys session if players weren't performing.

This season, we can't afford to keep chopping and changing the team – at some stage, there needs to be consistency of selection! To my mind, we should select if not exactly the same team as Sunday on Wednesday but keep the changes to a minimum (Williams or Jagielka out for Sandro or Calvert-Lewin) and that, barring suspension and injury, this should be the same team that plays at the weekend.

Only by playing the same team consistently will we know whether the start has been a blip or is symptomatic of wider issues within the team and management.

Will Mabon
126 Posted 19/09/2017 at 06:55:26
Clive @ 44 - thanks for looking that up. I remember the 2010-11 season but didn't think we'd been that low.
Steve Solomon
127 Posted 19/09/2017 at 07:31:02
We really got shafted by the fixture draw. However, if you look at the next bunch of games leading up to 10 December, there is a chance to get it together against weaker opposition and really turn things around and go on a run.

There is no choice here, if he doesn't turn it around and we get hammered in the derby, he'll be gone on 11 December.

Brendan Fox
128 Posted 19/09/2017 at 09:16:30
Steve @ 127 – we did have a tough start but what about Burnley? They've played away to Chelsea, Tottenham and them lot and come away with 5 points in their first 5 games. Albeit that their games against these teams were more spread out doesn't take anything away from the points they've earned.

If we as a club want to be the best we have to be able to compete with and beat the best and I'm afraid with Koeman in charge this is further from reality than at any point in the last 6 seasons.

He needs to go.

Jonathan Tasker
130 Posted 19/09/2017 at 10:14:26
Just fire him now.
Tony Everan
131 Posted 19/09/2017 at 10:27:44
The fact is that the recruitment team and board were complicit in not finding the requested striker and left-sided defender. This will buy him time.

It is not just Ronald who is to blame for this situation; all the suits around the table have let the club down.

This leads me to believe there will be no managerial change at all, at least not until next April, whether the fans like it or not.

So I'm resisting calling for his head and want to get behind the whole club. Here's hoping and willing the current lads and manager start producing the goods, and gel into a solid team unit.

In addition I'm praying for 1 or2 quality effective strikers in January, amongst other necessary reinforcements.

Walsh has his work cut out, but if he ever needed to earn his money it is now.

Tony Abrahams
132 Posted 19/09/2017 at 10:35:23
I spoke briefly with Burnley's manager who I bumped into when leaving Goodison early after the Spurs game Brendan@128.

I said to him that Everton were poor, but he told me that Spurs were a good side though. "I know, Dychy," I said, "but what don't you do in football when you are playing against a good side?"

Been away, watched Everton through drunken eyes against Atalanta, and just think it would be best if Koeman left now.

Early days, a new squad, but whatever he's trying to get his players to do just isn't working. How can the players know their jobs if the man in charge keeps changing things around?

Knowing your trade applies right across the workplace.Although I'm sure Koeman knows his football, he's totally lost his way, and doesn't look like he's got the slightest idea what to do about it.

Jonathan Tasker
133 Posted 19/09/2017 at 10:37:02
This weekend, we play Bournemouth. Most people, including the bookies, have us as favourites.

Given that we have no strikers, I'm not sure how we are expected to win this one. Last time I checked, Bournemouth had several strikers.

But, don't worry, folks, we have a new ground on the horizon.

With regard to the plane protests, people have short memories. What actually happened last time was that Kenwright suddenly developed an unspecified illness.

Brent Stephens
134 Posted 19/09/2017 at 10:40:53
Jonathan, unless you know for sure somebody didn't have an illness, I think it's unwise and insensitive to intimate that they didn't.
Kim Vivian
135 Posted 19/09/2017 at 11:03:34
For what it's worth – I know for a fact that Bill Kenwright was quite unwell.
John G Davies
136 Posted 19/09/2017 at 11:07:23
I felt quite unwell this morning, but thankfully I am okay now.
Jonathan Tasker
137 Posted 19/09/2017 at 11:17:24
Brent & Kim,

Fair points.

Brent Stephens
138 Posted 19/09/2017 at 11:34:19
Jonathan, good man.
Kim Vivian
139 Posted 19/09/2017 at 11:48:54
Cool, Jonathan – not having a dig just saying, like.

Ha – That's called being a little unwell. John :-)

Mark Kearns
140 Posted 19/09/2017 at 11:52:44
#137. Talking of points, my Hammers-supporting mate just sent me this. You have to laugh:

http://newsthump.com/2017/09/18/driving-ban-sees-wayne-rooney-open-up-eight-point-gap-over-everton/

Soren Moyer
141 Posted 19/09/2017 at 13:34:18
How the fuck did we end up with no proper striker!? Why are we conceding so many goals? Why do we always start with 7 in defence!!!? Why everything is in limbo with this club?
Stephen Smyth
142 Posted 19/09/2017 at 13:53:33
John Daley @ 89

Super post, nail on the head exactly, well said

Alan J Thompson
143 Posted 19/09/2017 at 17:03:27
Some have said that we "lost" a striker. Losing a striker is just careless. We didn't "lose" a striker – we sold one, a quite deliberate act. Another striker recently (re)installed to the first team squad doesn't seem to have been allowed to sit in the Everton team's benches but seems to have sourced a ticket to sit amongst Man Utd's fans.

There may still be some way to go.

Kim Vivian
144 Posted 19/09/2017 at 17:13:07
Hey Alan – deep thinking...

This may be splitting hairs but I thought he was sitting with the away fans which would put him with our boys? Surprised no photos have surfaced though.

Thomas Rigby
145 Posted 19/09/2017 at 17:22:47
Sixty years supporting Everton and I really believed we intended to compete for top 4 this season so Koeman's comment about 7th is extremely disappointing.

What I find worrying is that there are too many things about the club I simply don't understand.

How is the working relationship between Koeman and Walsh supposed to work? Who takes the ultimate responsibility for each signing? In my opinion, it should be Koeman but some of his comments seem to be confusing.

How can Everton spend so much and not address the problem of lack of pace in the team? Koeman should be asked directly to explain how this has happened.

Does Koeman intend to stay beyond his 3-year contract? If he was a player, a club would be looking to extend a contract. Do we wait for Koeman to decide if we are good enough for him? There is supposed to be a project but so far there are few signs of progress or commitment to the cause at Everton.

What is the real story behind the Barkley situation? How does a young Blue who has loved the club all his life become so alienated from it?

Niasse may or may not be good enough but the way he was treated last year appears to be disgraceful especially the business of denying him a locker. What does this say about the manager?

Just what is going on?

Kim Vivian
146 Posted 19/09/2017 at 17:34:51
Thomas – I think that sums up the mindset of just about all of us. Only question I can answer for you is "Do we wait for Koeman to decide if we are good enough for him?...", to which I would say if we are not, then it is him who is responsible for that.

If things don't improve on the pitch, I think he will walk within 4 weeks. I reckon the board would give him longer.

Insofar as to what is going on off the pitch, it's anyone's guess.

Will Mabon
147 Posted 19/09/2017 at 17:57:23
Kim, travelling fan confirmed. There were at least two pics of Niasse with Everton fans that people had posted on social media – linked from the BBC Sport site, is where I saw it.
Stan Schofield
148 Posted 19/09/2017 at 18:05:17
Thomas @145: Good post, but for me I tend to think of the internal management arrangements of EFC as irrelevant to me. All I'm interested in is how we perform on the pitch.

The bottom line is, we're not performing well, and it's apparent that the manager is not very good at tactics or man-management. These are necessary for good performance on the pitch, so it's apparent that the manager isn't good enough.

If a player under-performed as consistently as Koeman has as our manager, we'd hopefully get shut fairly quickly, certainly if we have real ambition.

We have a squad of good players, but their abilities are being squandered by mis-management. This needs nipping in the bud, so Koeman needs to be sacked, and quickly.

Kim Vivian
149 Posted 19/09/2017 at 18:41:09
Thanks Will - never saw those.

Looking forward to seeing what he can do tomorrow ....!

Thought for the day – If Ronald Koeman was a player, would he have a locker?

Soren Moyer
150 Posted 19/09/2017 at 18:56:06
Can somebody please explain to me, this gelling of the team every Koeman lover is talking about? Does it happen gradually or overnight? If it happens gradually, why isn't there any sign of it then? If it is going to happen overnight, what is the ETA approximately?

Thanks

A confused Everton fan.

Srdjan Sekulic
151 Posted 19/09/2017 at 18:56:19
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/oumar-niasse-joins-everton-away-13634877
Kim Vivian
152 Posted 19/09/2017 at 19:08:25
Thanks Srdjan - he's a lad isn't he. Can't fail to like him.
Soren Moyer
153 Posted 19/09/2017 at 19:30:21
I really feel sorry for the lad. What a gentleman. The way he has been treated is a disgrace.
Colin Glassar
154 Posted 19/09/2017 at 19:40:29
Lose tomorrow and Ronald is out. I don't think Moshiri will take another embarrassing result.
Kim Vivian
155 Posted 19/09/2017 at 19:59:43
Colin – I hope we don't find out but (serious question) – Do you think he would pull the trigger if we lost? Not saying should he, but would he. Be interesting to take a snap poll on that. I can start by saying I don't think he would.

I hope the board are looking at possible alternatives proactively because one way or another (push or jump) there is a fair chance of needing a contingency but, as I have said elsewhere, I will continue to hope we sort it all out.

Oliver Molloy
156 Posted 19/09/2017 at 20:04:16
No he wouldn't.
Dave Williams
157 Posted 19/09/2017 at 20:04:45
It's not so much the poor results in the league but the poor performance, lack of fight and absence of a real pattern of play.

We have some pace in the squad but he won't play those players. In the first half against Split we had wingers, Morgan was passing well to them and we looked dangerous. Since then he has reverted to good midfielders but with no outlet either wide or up top and that makes us way too easy to play against.

Surely he will try wingers again tomorrow?

Colin Glassar
158 Posted 19/09/2017 at 20:17:51
Kim, losing at home to the second-from-bottom team in the Championship would be nothing short of catastrophic in my opinion.

Roberto was sacked after a string of terrible results. This would be right up there.

Colin Metcalfe
159 Posted 19/09/2017 at 20:18:13
Soren (#150), I am not sure how long it takes a new group of players to gel but, as for new players to the Premier League it can up to a year to get to grips with it.

If you look at the likes of Pedro at Chelsea and the lad for Man Utd, Mkhitaryan, they looked a complete waste of money in their first season and yet look at them now!

So I still have hope for Klaassen and Sandro but it may take a while...

Kim Vivian
160 Posted 19/09/2017 at 20:21:56
Colin – You're quite right, worse than catastrophic..

So, do you think he would, or wouldn't?

Cathal Naughton
161 Posted 19/09/2017 at 20:35:27
My take on Mr Koeman has not altered from when he first took the job. I thought he was a bad choice and grossly overvalued. Biesle was my choice at the time, he may have bombed but it would have been fun. I loved watching his teams play.

Mr Koeman has never impressed me and, based on his track record outside of Holland being somewhat unspectacular, I could not fathom the stampede to sign him. I would describe his tactics as inept and his signings as a disgrace. He appears vacant, arrogant and incompetent in equal measure.

In my humble opinion he should leave.

Go out and try to convince Tuchel that it is not a lost cause.

Mick Conalty
162 Posted 19/09/2017 at 20:51:01
The connections Keoman has had with Valencia and Barcelona reminds me of the Valencia Song. I think the words were

Valencia put your head between your toes and whistle up your
Barcelona.

I fear Keoman has got his head stuck up his Barcelona.

Colin Glassar
163 Posted 19/09/2017 at 21:06:32
I think he could, Kim. He (Moshiri) needs a successful team to fill that new stadium.
Kim Vivian
164 Posted 19/09/2017 at 21:23:51
Well to make it all feel better, it looks like the RS can concentrate on other things after tonight. :-)
Tony Abrahams
165 Posted 19/09/2017 at 21:26:39
Dave @157, this is exactly why I think the manager has lost his way right now. He plays Schneiderlin every time he's fit but the team doesn't play with natural width. Every time Morgan gets the ball, he wants to play little square passes out to the wings, even though the only players getting out wide are our fullbacks.

This might work if we could then play the ball into a decent target man, and get players running off him, but we never signed one unfortunately.

Everton have now got some very good players, but the coach, has got to change tack if he wants to instil some real belief into his players, and also quite possibly himself. I wonder what his backroom staff are trying to do to help?

Colin Glassar
166 Posted 19/09/2017 at 21:27:18
No German Catherine wheels tonight, Kim.
Tony Abrahams
167 Posted 19/09/2017 at 21:28:16
What's the score Kim?
Kim Vivian
168 Posted 19/09/2017 at 21:29:20
2-0 to Leicester, Tony.
Tony Everan
169 Posted 19/09/2017 at 21:46:24
Without the pace and directness of Saido Mane, they look very ordinary. Just shows what a difference it makes.

Surprised Barcelona aren't after him, he makes much more of an impact than Coutinho.

Tony Abrahams
170 Posted 19/09/2017 at 21:51:10
Thanks Kim! I agree with everything you have just said, Tony, I was staggered when Liverpool turned down that amount of money for Coutiniho.
Tony Stanley
171 Posted 20/09/2017 at 01:43:48
I have more belief in Everton than Koeman does... shouldn't he have more?
Lee Brownlie
172 Posted 20/09/2017 at 06:28:26
To me, I'm afraid the manager now seems to be actually knocking our club, in pursuit of taking the blame off why we are really where we're at so far this season!!!

"I'm not happy with how we have started the season but, please, let's be a little realistic about Everton."

Yeah, little Everton, right?

Isn't upwards (of last year's 7th) supposed to be exactly where you and the board were aiming for this term? Spend all that dosh – getting we fans all excited in the process! On countless players each one good to do pretty much the same job, then show you neither have a clue how to fit them all in, nor get the whole team clicking as some sort of progressive unit, and, yes.. the expectations suddenly crash!!.. but that's down to you... No-one's now looking towards Goodison Park and saying, "Wow, now those particular boys in blue really are going to be a team to watch out for this season!"

Everyone suddenly IS being very realistic about our chances (of even turning up to give someone a proper game!) but again both the previous hopes and expectation, and this realisation of just how mind-numbingly predictable we really are right now, are absolutely to be lain at the managers door!!!

This said, I do believe, at least for now, that we can quickly turn things around.. but just wish our manager had focused more on that aspect (of intention and capability) rather than knock us as if to basically say, 'Its not me.. what else did you really expect from this club?'...

And so bollocks to him!! Koeman, do your job; turn it around sharpish, or shut up and get out of the way!!!

Lee Brownlie
173 Posted 20/09/2017 at 07:01:34
I've always thought the latter-day Ronald Koeman looks just like Buzz Lightyear!!.. but at least the deluded spaceman could apparently 'Fall with Style'!!

"Naah, you're just being shit, now!!" Woody would have said of these latest clueless outings!!!

Pat Waine
174 Posted 20/09/2017 at 09:22:53
Don't give any more money to Koeman because I think we will be forced into sacking him because of lack of ambition. The idea of having 7th as a target when you already finished 7th is bizarre.

Martinez finished 5th a few years ago with no money . Wake up, Ron, and smell the roses.

Stan Schofield
175 Posted 20/09/2017 at 09:45:59
Lee, spot on. After being recruited, it wasn't long before Koeman displayed the classic characteristics of the 'toxic manager', the bullshitter who constantly diverts blame onto others.

His utterings to the media have been so inept that Everton should not have allowed him to speak freely, in that any statements he made should have been carefully crafted by the club, regardless of any attempts by the media to ask loaded questions.

The main defence that folks have offered for giving him more time, is his reputation as a player rather than as a manager. That alone is an indictment of his level of managerial skill, when folks have to refer to his playing days.

I suspect Everton are working behind the scenes to find a replacement, whilst letting him dig his grave deeper with his continued inept mutterings. I just hope we show we've learned from the past, and are quick about getting rid of dead wood.

David McMullen
176 Posted 20/09/2017 at 11:51:27
I will give Koeman one thing, that a team needs time to gel and that we are not now in a place where we had hoped (as Evertonians) that we would kick on this season so those expectations are to be dampened. He has to be 'realistic' as he needs to manage our expectations but also because he's got a touch of the Martinezitis – he's lost the plot he hasn't got a clue how to sort out this mess.

Realistically at the start okay not going to win the league but challenging the top 4 some prefer to say top 6 was realistic. All gone to pot now. Get us up to 7th or 8th and a trophy with Europe again that would be a successful season. Is 7th or 8th that realistic now though?

Alan J Thompson
177 Posted 20/09/2017 at 16:13:45
My apologies, I was under the impression he was amongst the Man Utd fans.
The point remains though, sat in the crowd not amongst the team squad.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.