Koeman sees 'important' win as potential turning point

Saturday 23 September 2017  119 Comments  [Jump to last]
Ronald Koeman gave full credit to former outcast Oumar Niasse for his match-winning brace against Bournemouth and expressed his belief that it could be a key moment in the season.

Everton came into this afternoon's match in the relegation zone after three successive Premier League defeats and were heading for another damaging loss when they fell behind to the Cherries early in the second half of this afternoon's game at Goodison Park.

A double substitution that saw two of the key performers from Wednesday's cup win over Sunderland enter the fray helped turn the match in Everton's favour as Tom Davies provided two chances for Niasse from which the striker scored.

It was the latest chapter in what is becoming a remarkable turnaround in the Senegalese player's personal fortunes — he scored his first Everton goal against the Black Cats three days ago and rescued his team today with two goals in five minutes.

“He's bringing more aggression," Koeman said after the 2-1 victory. "I think we needed, in the second half at 1-0 down, to have another striker close to Dominic [Calvert-Lewin] to press a little better than we did before.

“And you know he's really a direct striker, he's in the box, he's fast and he scored a great first goal. He won the ball first in the midfield and he played the one-two and he scored a fantastic goal.

“And all the credit is to Oumar because that's life — when you get your chance you have to take it. He did last Wednesday and he did again today.

“When [a player] is being productive like Niasse you would be very stupid not to count [him in] for the future,” the Dutchman concluded, indicating that the 27-year-old will very much be involved in the first team going forward.

'A big win'

Koeman acknowledged how difficult a contest it had been for his team prior to the personnel changes that helped swing the game.

Davies was introduced at the expense of Davy Klassen and Niasse replaced Wayne Rooney, who had had to be patched up in the first half after sustaining a gash to his eye, while Kenny came on later for Cuco Martina.

“It was a difficult game,” the manager reflected. “I think we played well in the first half but we didn;'t create many chances.

“We took the right decision [at] 1-0 down to play in a different system with two strikers and to play a little more direct and that was important to change the game, to have more domination and more aggression. And finally we won the game.

“Sometimes substitutes can bring a lot and [they did] today but I think it's more credit to Niasse, Davies and Kenny because they did a good job after a difficult time in the second half.

“1-0 down, under pressure, I think the boys showed great character and the spirit we showed in a different way than the way we usually play. Okay, we changed and turned it into a win it was really important.

“It's always a different world after a win. You always have key moments in the season and today really was a big win that will give everybody a boost.”

 

Reader Comments (119)

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Brian Williams
1 Posted 23/09/2017 at 20:43:24
Only a turning point if you learn from it, Mr Koeman.
Ash Moore
2 Posted 23/09/2017 at 20:49:06
Ironic that an almost forgotten relic of the Martinez regime might let the Dutchman off the hook.
Milo Crewe
3 Posted 23/09/2017 at 20:52:20
I've seen so much negativity towards Koeman after this game, which I don't think is fair. I think he deserves a huge amount of credit for bringing on the right players at the right time, which won us the game.

Of course you could question his starting eleven, but equally you should praise how he managed the team during the game, swallowing his pride to bring Niasse on, for example.

All three substitutes played a big part in turning the game around, showing that Koeman's tactical knowledge and adaptability are excellent. Let's get behind our manager!

Tony Hill
4 Posted 23/09/2017 at 20:53:30
I think that's very true, Brian (#1). Those are fair words from Koeman – though there is an obvious question as to why he left us short of attacking strength today in the first place – and he now has the chance to collapse some ego and to refocus himself and the team definitively.

I don't think Ronald has it in him, alas, because he seems terrified of taking tactical chances to have us attacking with confidence; there is something paralysed and he can't release it. But Messrs Pickford and Niasse have given him a chance.

Steve Croston
5 Posted 23/09/2017 at 20:56:57
Pleased as punch to get the win, but let's be brutally honest, for an hour we were terrible.

When Koeman wrote out his starting 11, did he really not see how unbalanced and slow they would be? I for one just think he is stubborn and egocentric, and will not bow to public pressure, simply because he thinks he knows best. Well guess what Mr Koeman, at the moment you're in the minority if you think you do!

Being able to admit you are wrong is a very endearing quality and one that will buy him more time (although ultimately I think he will be sacked before the season is finished). It would also help get him back onside with the fans, but I don't really think he cares either way with regards to our delicate sensibilities!

Yes ,his soundbites after the game showed he is human, and yes he made the substitutions that changed the game (although let's be honest, he didn't have that many other options) but the fact is we shouldn't have even been in that position, and his complete unwillingness to adapt will ultimately be his downfall.

COYB 😀

Roberto Granelli
6 Posted 23/09/2017 at 20:58:52
I'm sure you all see the irony, of Niasse potentially saving Koeman's job, after the appalling way, he was treated by him?
Steve Croston
7 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:04:42
Roberto (#6), the irony is certainly not lost on the majority of Everton fans; this is also coupled with how amazingly Niasse has conducted himself with regards to playing for the U23 team and Hull last season.

I also like him because he is always smiling – something you don't see from too many footballers these days.

Jon Davis
8 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:06:52
I doubt anyone here knows how to manage a football team, aside from Fifa or Champ Man. So it makes me cringe to see people offering advice or making patronising comments to the manager. Maybe just appreciate that it's a difficult job and you actually couldn't do any better.
John Keating
9 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:08:23
Milo, I don't think Koeman deserves any credit whatsoever. The starting 11 was ridiculous, yet again. Tactics, well nothing has changed. 2 defensive midfielders, 3 Number 10s. Let's not say too much about Martina playing again as that is subjective.

We were playing Bournmouth, yes Bournemouth at home for God's sake. We should never have been in a position that forced Koeman at 1-0 down and just escaped a second for them to make Koeman change things.

Koeman's intransigence in tactics and team selection almost caused us to lose yet another game, this time against a so called easier opponent. Either Koeman knows something 99% of us don't or he's just incompetent. I would suggest the latter.

He has to wake up because, if he reverts to type against Burnley, I can see him going.

Jon Davis
10 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:08:46
Steve Croston – "although ultimately I think he will be sacked before the season is finished."...

Go home mate, you've had enough to drink.

Philip Braithwaite
11 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:12:47
No matter what Koeman says, he has done Oumar down big time. Not giving him a chance, and trying to get rid pre season...

Is he Messi, no, but at the moment he could be in the same bracket as Lineker, Cottee, Johnson, etc,etc. Maybe, perhaps, not a direct Centre forward, but someone who knows where the goal is maybe.

I think ,even in these early days, he could become a cult hero, His attitude has been spot on with not a complaint to anybody.< Whatever happens to him from now on, in my opinion, I would rather support Oumar than Mr Lukaku. Why, because he is far more sincere, honest.

Lukaku, never trusted or liked him, scored goals yes, but never thought his heart was here, at Everton.

Dermot Byrne
12 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:21:18
The other irony is some of us have made up our minds about Koeman and there is no way back for him. Glad there has been for Niasse.
Lev Vellene
13 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:26:49
As I said somewhere else recently, Niasse may look like a giraffe on ice at times but, now that he's got a serious amount of practice/training under his belt without any more injuries, lets really play him! Well, he's the only part of our team working as he should around now...
Milo Crewe
14 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:27:55
John (#9) how can you seriously give no credit to the guy who brought on the scorer of both goals and the guy who set them up?!

Also Kenny did fantastic when he came on, put some great crosses in and provided some energy. He surely deserves some!

It's also worth pointing out that we played with 10 men for at least 10 minutes because of Rooney's injury, and against 12 at times thanks to Mr Atkinson.

If we look at the bigger picture, a good comparison can be made with Spurs. They spent the Bale money on lots of foreign talent, struggled to gel for a bit and now they're challenging for the title.

Be patient and stay positive, it sounds from these comments like we lost today!

Geoff Williams
15 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:30:19
It is interesting seeing how others see the game. I thought the team selection was stupid and the early performance seemed to justify my opinion.

There seemed to be greater urgency and movement once Rooney and Klaassen were substituted. I thought there was then a marked improvement in the play of both Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin with Davies giving the team the energy that was missing for the first hour.

I thought Niasse took his goals exceptionally well. He may make many, including myself, eat their words. I was pleased to see Kenny being far more adventurous than he was on Wednesday and is worth persevering with but I can't see Holgate making it as a centre-half just yet if at all. He isn't strong enough at the moment.

Pickford's distribution is getting poorer with each passing game, I hope he can sort that out soon.

That win was so important.

Phil Bellis
16 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:37:14
Maybe Oumar is benefiting from and reacting to the coaching and playing time in U-23s games. The players certainly showed how chuffed they were with and for him.
Peter Morris
17 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:39:57
I never understood why Koeman came out so quickly and publicly after joining the club and stated that Niasse had no future here. Why do that?

Koeman had nothing to lose just having a look at him. It struck me as arrogant, and unfair. How many times had Mr Koeman actually watched Niasse play?

Had the likes of Ferguson and others done a hatchet job on the guy? How ironic, as others have said, that Niasse may play a pivotal role in saving Koeman's job! There will need to be serious inquiry as some stage as to why the club so meekly allowed Lukaku to leave whilst still under contract without having sorted a viable replacement first. That now looks like a terrible error of judgement.

I wish Niasse well. He might not be blessed with stellar skills, but he will bag a few much needed goals when others simply don't threaten and he looks an honest pro.

Another pretty shit showing today in the round, and we were lucky to get all three points. That's one of your lives used up, Mr Koeman!

John Keating
18 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:40:55
Milo ,my point is that Koeman should never have put us in that position in the first place. Kenny is a natural defender with great pace and stamina, the present natural successor to Coleman and should have played from the start.

Davis always looks for the forward pass and naturally goes forward as opposed to our present 2 defensive sideways midfielders.

Finally, whether it was Niasse or Sandro, we should have started with 2 up top. Everything was forced on Koeman.

I suggest had Bournemouth not scored today we would have finished up with the same starting 11 and been overjoyed at a nil-nil.

In my opinion we won today in spite of Koeman not because of him.

Don Alexander
19 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:41:00
If we ever have to rely on a squad who all share our passion, we're fooked. Seriously.

Apart from some Bambi-on-ice performances when we signed him, as everyone agreed, Niasse has done little up to now to be worthy of the huge acclaim now coming his way on these threads.

He did what he and all of us wanted today though and every credit to him, genuinely. Hopefully he continues and proves all of us who posted their doubts (and worse) about him, including Koeman, wrong.

He has everything to gain and nothing to lose on the contract he's on and as for grafting, smiling, getting on with it, never bitching and all, well, I should think so! I hope he's one of the few footballers who realises just how blessed he is in every discernible way. Shame that part of him isn't infectious at Finch Farm.

Paul Hughes
20 Posted 23/09/2017 at 21:44:54
Koeman got lucky today. He selected a team with no pace with an isolated front man. He only changed it when he had a gun to his head. Let's see if he learns from this.
Trevor Peers
21 Posted 23/09/2017 at 22:09:35
Many congratulations to Niasse, with his two life saving goals, he has a touch of the Vardy's about him with his pace and finishing, and that's a blessing, he's just what we need right now.

Many of us suggested Koeman had to show some imagination in his team selection on TW last Friday night – we meant at the start of the game Ron, not when we went 1-0 down

When pushed into a corner, Koeman did put Davies and Niasse on, but I doubt he would of done if we had managed a goal in the first half. He would of tried to see the game out with his doomed master plan intact.

Thankfully that never happened, but has Koeman realised the error of his ways? I doubt it. Most manager's always revert back to Plan A as soon as possible, it's their philosophy after all, and that will be his downfall.

Chris Gould
22 Posted 23/09/2017 at 22:10:57
Absolutely, Don.

Some of the comments are laughable. Niasse was dreadful when he arrived, and in particular he was dreadful during Koeman's first pre-season. At that time, we had Lukaku and Koeman wanted another striker. He saw no place for Niasse and neither did anyone else.

I think at the time Koeman was frustrated with the squad he had inherited. It was unfit and had too many players simply not good enough.

To Niasse's credit, he has since got his head down and improved. And to Koeman's credit, he was prepared to bring him back in to the first team and give him a go.

Some on the live forum today suggested that Koeman was unhappy that Niasse had scored, and that he would be embarrassed. Do people really believe that Koeman brought him on and hoped he failed? That makes no sense whatsoever!

If he didn't want to deal with the awkward situation of Niasse scoring and showing that he wasn't shit, then he wouldn't play him at all.

If Niasse goes on and bangs in a few goals, nobody will be happier than our manager. The fact that he brought him on instead of Sandro shows that Koeman has changed his opinion of him and is not in the least bit embarrassed about it. Nor should he be.

Some of the hypocrites on here have far more reason to be embarrassed, acting like they rated Niasse all along and were desperate for him to show us what he really could do.

I like the guy, but he isn't that good and will be found out against better teams. Koeman wants and expects better, but he's having to make do. It will be fun while it lasts.

Don Alexander
23 Posted 23/09/2017 at 22:11:19
The great Ritchie Benaud used to say about captaincy "It's 80% luck and 20% inspiration, but don't think you can manage without that 20%!"

If Koeman got lucky today, good. I hope he stays lucky because us lot, the fans, need all the joy we can get from our team and he, if he adapts to the reality that someone's failure in summer dumped on him and us, should be able to improve on last season regardless of next January.

It's called coaching, practice, effort and desire. Anyone at Finch Farm or in the board room less than 100% committed in every category is stinking the place out.

Habib Erkan Jr
24 Posted 23/09/2017 at 22:19:52
If Koeman had his way, Niasse would not have been available to come off the bench. Koeman has showed he is clueless by preferring Gylfi to Ross and starting Klaassen over Davies. Klaassen is not even an improvement over Cleverley.

I was solidly in Koeman's camp and it took me longer than others to see he is a bluffer. He is destroying our team. Just by alienating Ross and purchasing Gyllfi over value he has wasted the profit the club received from the Lukaku transfer.

Christopher Masters
25 Posted 23/09/2017 at 22:25:14
Check out this Niasse interview from last season when he played for Hull City. The press are trying to goad him into bad-mouthing Koeman and the club. But he shows humility and dignity in his response.

https://youtu.be/F4BCY2zxruw

Ste Traverse
26 Posted 23/09/2017 at 22:36:23
The guy who was deemed not good enough to even have a locker at Finch Farm could have saved Koeman's job.

Made up for Niasse. He's carried himself with such dignity during his spell as an outcast here. Hopefully more to come from him.

Charlie Lloyd
27 Posted 23/09/2017 at 22:41:36
Chris @ 22

Well said.

John Pierce
28 Posted 23/09/2017 at 22:46:24
Koeman gets no crumb of praise. The three players who did the business Wednesday were dropped, despite the momentum it gave us.

His selection derailed that momentum, and reduced us to a nomadic, drunk crab, wandering about trying to lash out at anything that moved.

Lo and behold the three players who were in form replaced three who aren't.

He had little choice following Wednesday yet still chose not to start them.

Shame on you, Sir!

Someone posted earlier ‘inspite of Koeman, not because of him'.

Correct.

Oliver Molloy
29 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:03:04
Koeman this, Koeman that; if he wins he gets crucified if he loses he gets the same and more. Do we really want to be sacking our manager every season?

Niasse saved him from the sack, yeah right ! The team came from behind to win the game, yes we weren't convincing once again but we won because we didn't stop, a good sign the players are with the manager.

This is a new team and it will take time to find the right balance and formula, every game presents different challenges. I suspect Koeman knew exactly how we were going to play had Giroud arrived, but it didn't happen and he now has his work cut out.

A while back there were people on here saying Tom Davies needs a rest, he's losing form, making mistakes and when the manager gives the kid a rest he doesn't know what he's doing.

I said the other day on here and my post was removed for some reason, but I will have another go. These football managers know fuck all, there are plenty of managers on here that would have us winning the league in a couple of seasons.

I can't wait for Barkley to get fit, that will be interesting on here.

Eddie Dunn
30 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:06:58
Koeman ignored the obvious evidence of midweek and plumbed for his favourites at kick-off and if it were not for the heroics of Davies and Niasse we would all be depressed and talking about how poor we are.

The manager can have credit for bringing them on, but really? Most fans knew what was needed before our well-paid professional coach. His pig-headedness is unbelievable.

Rooney and Sigurdsson simply cannot play together and Calvert-Lewin needs a strike partner. To play overly defensive against the big boys is one thing, but surely, at home we can be more adventurous against teams like Bournemouth?

Dick Fearon
31 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:11:15
There's a Desperate Dan sized Niasse humble pie to be divvied up and lots of ToffeeWeb posters should be sharing in it.
Paul Tran
32 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:14:55
Turning points are only turning points when people capitalise on them.

Koeman got lucky today. Played his traffic jam line-up because Rooney 'has to' play, Sigurdsson needs game time to get fit, and Klaassen needs game time to get the pace of this league.

It wasn't working so he was forced to bring on the pace and drive of Davies and the unpredictable energy of Niasse. At least he did it.

If he's happy to be lucky and learn, he'll make Davies first on the midfield team sheet, give the admirable Calvert-Lewin Niasse as a partner and pat Pickford on the back for the save that was as much a match-winner as Niasse's strikes.

As we may have noticed, there was no problem with 'two defensive midfielders' when we had two energetic strikers and a purposeful midfielder on the pitch.

Plenty of successful managers find the right formula by accident, but only when they're clever enough to make the most of the 'turning points' that land in their lap.

Koeman keeps getting these signs. Will he see them?

Oliver Molloy
33 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:21:47
Paul,

Rumoured it is in Rooney's contract he will start all home games if fit, and no-one can blame Koeman for that.

John G Davies
34 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:26:05
Good points, Paul.

"Admirable Calvert-Lewin"

Without going over the top, this kid has got a big chance of developing into a top class centre forward. His target play, hold up and movement into the channels is getting better every game.

Reminiscent of a young Sharpie today. Going all the way in my opinion. A lot of his best work in wide areas today. A benefit of being played wide early on?

Nigel Munford
35 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:29:27
On the subject of Koeman, he's damned if he does he's damned if he doesn't, as will any manager at our club, because that's what a forum is all about, opinions.
David Edwards
36 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:42:18
God! Just seen MotD when Koeman looks down and spit as the first goal went in from Niasse. What an absolute arsehole!
John Roberts
37 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:45:13
Line-up was a shocker as mentioned already.Same bunch, no pace, no creativity. First hour same old same nothing going forward just dreadful and it looked very desperate.

Super Oumar made our day but people can forget he will be the main man. He will produce in some games but he's not a week-in & week-out scorer.

Koeman still has a heck of lot of convincing to do; this game hasn't changed much.

Tony Hill
38 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:53:32
What a fine player, still in the making, we have in Davies. The pass to Niasse for the first goal was perfect.

Calvert-Lewin and Niasse could be an absolute nightmare pairing for defences. They are physically awkward and unpredictable. Sometimes terrible, sometimes deadly, they never give up and are all arms and legs.

Can they be played together up front? I don't see why not with Sigurdsson moving up behind.

John Pierce
39 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:53:47
Paul T, your remarks are generous towards Koeman. Very much so.

I can only echo the sentiment but must do in much stronger terms.

How can the man repeatedly make the same mistakes over and over again?

He often talks of aggression but never playes edgy players? Sure that needs to be harnessed, but Jags n Baines won't give you that. You need instigators. Tom Davies is exactly that, callow yes but dynamic and contagious.

He values experience and power over speed and flair. I wouldn't trust him to blend me a milkshake. The balance would be all wrong.

As you say, can he read the signs?

John Daley
40 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:55:02
Oliver @33,

Why would it be written into Rooney's contract that he must start every home game? Makes no sense at all.

Is he not particularly arsed about playing away (poor choice of words, I know)?

Why didn't he play Wednesday if that's the case? Is it only a contractual requirement covering Premier League games at home, with Koeman being left to make the call in the cups?

Paul Smith
41 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:56:57
Some bizzarre comments on this thread. Just you wait until Niasse proves to us how shit he really is (paraphrasing). Unbelievable.
John Daley
42 Posted 23/09/2017 at 23:59:26
"Koeman looks down and spit as the first goal went in from Niasse"

Maybe it was a "get in" goz? A "fucking have some of that" hacking up of phlegm?

Oliver Molloy
43 Posted 23/09/2017 at 00:10:41
David @ 36,

What are you saying? Koeman sent Niasse on hoping he wouldn't score ? He was disappointed when he scored? Is that your take on him spitting if he did!

John @ 40,

Premier league home games I've heard.
Regarding you saying it making no sense, I'd say that it made perfect sense to Rooney – he wanted a guarantee that he would play and if it was Kenwright looking after the details, it's no surprise at all.

Rooney needs to be playing to maintain his earning potential outside of what Everton pay him.

John Mckay
44 Posted 24/09/2017 at 00:11:03
I couldn't make the game today; I was working. Managed to watch some of the second half on my way home and what I seen for 20 minutes of the second half was poor, same as stoke and spurs games I went to just too slow getting the ball forward and it not sticking up front keep coming back at us.

We made Bournemouth look good today. Also is it just me or does Baines look for the backwards pass far too often?

They get it in an advanced position knock it back not to lose possession but then it gets knocked back to the keeper and he kicks a long ball which goes back to the opposition. Maybe it's best to take the risk instead of knocking it back while all your supporting players are in this position.

Anyway, I got in my car and put the radio on and heard Niasse had scored what I thought initially that it was 1-1, almost pissed my pants with excitement when I realised it was 2-1 and Niasse had bagged a brace, it's amazing how much I want this player to succeed.

All-in-all a good win against a Bournemouth team which looked better than ours for most of the game.

Should drop Klaassen and maybe Rooney use these from the bench and leave Davies in that advanced position he knows how to knock a forward pass.

Kenny over Martina also.

The next game can't come quick enough, the more games this team play together, the better we'll get.

Mike Berry
46 Posted 24/09/2017 at 00:20:57
I think Ronald forgot to mention that Oumar today saved him from getting the sack!! Talk about his own locker, he should have his own dressing room, two superb goals!

Can someone explain to me the tactics/set up for the starting eleven ? where they were supposed to play? Because the "faithful" sat around me at the game today had no idea like me, hence the first half debacle.

The result papers over the cracks; Ronald is a dead man walking... and I was a fan when he first arrived, but my eyes don't lie.

John Mckay
47 Posted 24/09/2017 at 00:46:47
People calling for Koeman for the sack after 6 games if the new season is mental.

A lot of new players need time to gel, two of our most important players to come back from injury. Team looks crap no balance but FFS the teams we played so far...

Okay, the performances have been shite to say the least but it looks like a team that hasn't played together before and that's because half of them haven't.

Wait until after 15 games to decide. I don't think we'll get relegated, that's for sure and who would we bring in ?Moyes!

It's the curse of being an Evertonian.

Give him 15 league games if not up to speed by then then fair enough, don't forget director of football got to take some flack. We were unlucky not getting our strikers in but I think we'll turn it around; got to keep the faith, guys.

Shaun McGough
48 Posted 24/09/2017 at 00:59:41
This was a an out-of-form lowly Bournemouth side. Let's hope Koeman realises Tom Davies's name is first on the team sheet every week and build from this.
Paul Birmingham
49 Posted 24/09/2017 at 01:37:33
Every day's a good day and even better when EFC win. I accept that this season is transitional, but hopefully the good signs of players who fit, blend and have true grit will make life easier.

Every game feels like we are on the inside shale face of a volcano. Unease outside and inside the ground.

We know the game, and soon reality will strike and no more dodgy formations, and hopefully a 4-4-2, and the width and pace of the pitch and team is embraced.

If we don't stop chopping and changing formation, this season will get even more messy. Shoots of hope today, some punch and conviction after the subs, rather than delusion, about fitting same players or perhaps similar players doing the same or similar role with degrees of success and failure.

I'd like to see Lookman and Vlasic get more game time, some how I see Schneiderlin, and a few more out the frame sooner than later. Contribution is minimal and Gana has more bite and attacks.

The Goodison croud, overall don't lie, for us or the away team, credit where it's due; let's see what team starts v Burnley.

What's Our Name?

John Pierce
50 Posted 24/09/2017 at 01:46:45
Do we want Niasse to succeed because it both gives us immense joy for the team and at the same time makes Koeman look like he has a whole hen house of egg on his bonse?

Could be...

Clive Mitchell
51 Posted 24/09/2017 at 02:11:49
"I started with an 11 not one person in the ground would have selected and then changed when it had only been apparent for an hour or so that it was completely ineffective because by that stage we were getting beat."
Ernie Baywood
52 Posted 24/09/2017 at 03:11:48
This isn't about Koeman being wrong in his assessment of Niasse's ability. Plenty of us wrote him off and that may well still be the right assessment... he's not really proven anything yet.

It's about the way you treat people. It wasn't right and most on here could see that. Some saw it as 'refreshing honesty' which I never understood.

I don't even think the result yesterday was necessarily about Niasse. It was more about structure and positions. Suddenly we had two forwards and a player prepared to work in tandem with an overlapping full back.

Those are basics... you can't just pick your favourite players regardless of shape and formation. We finally created chances against a very ordinary Bournemouth side... woop de doo. Of course we should – we have decent players and if you give them half a chance to play they should be able to offer something.

Will Mabon
53 Posted 24/09/2017 at 04:57:03
"This isn't about Koeman being wrong in his assessment of Niasse's ability. Plenty of us wrote him off and that may well still be the right assessment... he's not really proven anything yet."

And it may well be the wrong assessment. He's proven he can score goals, Ernie. In the U23s, at Hull and now here. Who else in the squad has scored three goals so far this season, and in very few minutes playing time?

He may prove to be no answer long term but no sense denying reality.

David Barks
54 Posted 24/09/2017 at 05:07:46
Crazy to think that, if not for a striker publicly humiliated by this manager, sent out on loan and then attempted to be sold on deadline day, the manager very well might have been facing being sacked Monday.

That is the state of the "project" that has been so often quoted by Moshiri and Koeman. Please don't be a prisoner of the moment and let one result paper over all the cracks that have been on view for more than a year.

Phil Sammon
55 Posted 24/09/2017 at 05:26:10
I think you have to give Niasse a massive pat on the back for that first goal. He's won it himself on the halfway line, played two passes, kept on running, taken the ball beautifully in his stride and thumped it home. It's a truly fantastic goal.

Onto the game and I think Koeman's had another shocker with his starting eleven. I can't believe we spent £45M on Sigurdsson to stick him on the left wing. It just doesn't make any sense.

I really like Klaassen, I think he's got great speed of thought and he's got a super first-time pass on him...but you can't have him, Rooney and Sigurdsson all in the same team. Add Gana and Schneiderlin to the mix and we are so narrow it's laughable.

Martina takes a lot of stick, but Koeman's had his pound of flesh out of him this weekend. He was up and down like a fiddler's elbow. It just seems crazy to ask so much of one player. Surely we could afford to pull out a centre mid and accommodate a player more comfortable drifting into wide areas. And for all Martina's effort, let's be honest, that one foray from Kenny looked more menacing than anything we saw from Cuco.

Holgate had a pretty poor game in my opinion. But fair enough, we had no one else and he's learning his role. Just needs to stay on his feet and not be so rash. He'll improve.

All-in-all, we've escaped with the points. I just hope the manager has learned something... though I sincerely doubt it.

Dennis Ng
56 Posted 24/09/2017 at 05:47:30
Brian (#1) you stole my line LOL

Milo (#3) He did start the wrong formation and got into trouble before rolling the dice on the subs. Credit for the turnaround sure, but we can't keep shooting ourselves in the foot and hoping a few subs can turn it around.

When I said we don't need a new striker, I was definitely not thinking Niasse but happy for him and the team. I hope Koeman will learn from this and start using far more balanced and adventurous formations and selections. We have a good group of youth who can be called World Cup winners. WTF is Koeman thinking letting underperforming players play ahead of them?

And before I get misconstrued for calling our massive purchases flops, I want to clarify. Koeman's stubborn streak has put the players in formations they are not accustomed to nor good for utilizing their strengths. I concur with many when they say our new players' confidence are shot and it will be easier to assimilate them only after we establish a few potent formations we can play around with.

Darren Hind
57 Posted 24/09/2017 at 06:11:43
Paul T

The defensive midfielders were forced to push on and become more effective, because we were losing against a team who had not scored away since the off.

Koeman was forced to introduce Kenny and Niasse because his logic-defying selections and brain-numbing tactics had him staring down the barrel – again!

This is not hindsight... How many have been screaming for Kenny to be selected?

How many knew he would drop Davies (his engine room) after his MotM performance, so he can shoehorn is expensive, but not as good, signings?

How many of us have been screaming for Calvert-Lewin to be played in his natural position instead of taking abuse for not shining when chasing back to help out his full back?

We're a dozen games into a season where we knew we were without a centre-forward... and the penny only seems to be dropping now.

Koeman doesn't need to "see the signs" he simply needs to react to what is smacking him between the fucking eyes.

He really, really, really doesn't deserves this prestigious job, his half witted comments, stupid through-the-narrow-door tactics, and his insistence on playing "His" players continues to produce the dreaded Zombie football.

I'm made up for Niasse, I'm made up for the players and I'm made up fro the fans who rejoiced well into last night... but make no mistake, this victory was earned in spite of Koeman and I was pleased to see most people in the alehouse, on the phone-ins and even on here have given zero credit for it.


Brian Porter
58 Posted 24/09/2017 at 06:32:31
After the last two games, with Niasse going from zero to hero, I find it pretty graceless that a minority of posters are harping on about his early days at the club.

True, we probably all thought he was pants at the time but in fairness, he got his head down, took the shit that Koeman gave him after watching him for all of 45 minutes in a pre-season friendly, and has done everything, asked of him and without doubt, has improved exponentially.

I, for one, acknowledge my own doubts,in the early days, but since watching him score for Hull against Liverpool and Man Utd (twice), I began to suspect there was something there that we might have missed initially.

To those still putting him down, let's just remember that in just 45 minutes game time over two matches, he is now our leading scorer this season.

He might not have the great skills of a Messi or Neymar but he does have good old fashioned poachers skills, being in the right place at the right time to put the ball in the net.

As long as he keeps doing that, it won't take long for him to become a firm fan favourite, and go on to become a cult figure with most Evertonians. I suspect he's well on his way to that status already.

Niasse is one of ours, and from his interviews he seems to be totally in love with all things Everton, unlike a certain striker to have recently worn the shirt. Get behind him, give him the respect his hard work has deserved and let's see how he responds to being given his opportunity.

Whether it was forced on him or not, Koeman has now released the genie from the bottle. Let's see what treats he rewards us with. If we are still in the Europa League in January when teams can adjust their squads let's hope Koeman includes him in the squad for the latter stages of the competition.

Dennis Ng
59 Posted 24/09/2017 at 07:50:27
Side note. Niasse credits his time with the U23s to get him in sync with Davies. Perhaps our some time on the bench, reserves and youths will do our new signings some good.

I have high hopes for Sandro and Vlasic but can't see it as long as Koeman plays his nonsense 6-man wall (and somehow concede still) formation. As long as he is unwilling to take more risk, none of our attacking players will get enough playing time to get fit, up to speed and firing on all cylinders.

Darren, I agree with you on remaining unconvinced but without the ship hopelessly lost at sea, we're unlikely to see a new man (fingers crossed its Tuchel) for the near term.

John Charles
60 Posted 24/09/2017 at 08:22:38
Well done, Oumar Niasse, you are not the first and won't be the last person treated shabbily by a half wit manager happens all the time in the "real world".

Good on you, but let's not kid ourselves he will be the saviour of our season. All those early doubters doubted for a reason. It wasn't only Koeman who thought he wasn't good enough and many on here openly and publicly bad mouthed him. It was Koeman as his employer who hung him out to dry and for that he should hang his head in shame.

Quite quick with a bit of energy I can see him scoring the odd goal and becoming a cult figure for sticking two fingers up to the man (in a really nice friendly way) but he is not a centre-forward who will score 20 goals a season and propel the team forward.

For now alongside Calvert-Lewin he is the best we have got and I for one hope he exceeds all expectations, however I wouldn't be too surprised (or disappointed) if come January we bought someone better and he was again relegated to bit-part player.

Dan Kemp
61 Posted 24/09/2017 at 08:36:58
Hey, did anyone else think that Sigurdsson came alive a lot more when Rooney went off and he moved into the centre? Played with a lot more urgency, was more involved and knew what his role was.
Anthony Hawkins
62 Posted 24/09/2017 at 08:43:20
I don't think it's a coincidence we played better as a team when Rooney went off. It's a similarity across each team he's been involved with.
Paul Tran
63 Posted 24/09/2017 at 08:54:59
Darren (#57), so it seems like we're in agreement on yesterday. I'm heading towards your view of Koeman and his current job.
Tony Marsh
64 Posted 24/09/2017 at 09:08:47
Fantastic from Niasse with his 3 goals this week. Koeman won't be happy Oumar has done the business. I reckon Gormless Ron will be seething inside. Koeman looks a right mug at the minute but who cares about our manager right now??

The two questions I have are when will the Grim Reaper be standing behind Koeman in the dugout and when will Barcelona be coming in to whisk Ron away to the Nou Camp?? Barca are flying at the moment – I am sure Real Madrid could do with Koeman going to Barca pretty soon.

James Stewart
65 Posted 24/09/2017 at 09:11:05
@61/62. Yes, exactly what I have been saying for weeks. Rooney slows the whole side down and totally stifles Sigurdsson.
Tony Hogan
67 Posted 24/09/2017 at 09:39:38
John Charles (60) your quote:

'He is not a centre-forward who will score 20 goals a season and propel the team forward.'

How do you know that???

Based on your ability to assess a player on less than 180 mins of first team action, you should have Walsh,s job, maybe you could do better.

Give the guy a chance.

Steve Davies
68 Posted 24/09/2017 at 10:13:53
Darren (#57). Totally agree. Good post. Koeman doesn't seem to spot the obvious. Form over favourites every time.
Eric Paul
69 Posted 24/09/2017 at 10:17:49
Chris @22

He was certainly found out playing in a relegation side against Liverpool and Man Utd.

Andy Meighan
70 Posted 24/09/2017 at 10:21:52
Oliver Molloy and his rumours... (yawn)

Mark my word, there's not a player in world football that would have a clause that says, if fit, he starts every game. Where do you get this shit from?

John Charles
71 Posted 24/09/2017 at 10:50:53
Tony, I almost certainly wouldn't do any worse.

He had absolutely got a chance and I hope he grabs it and scores a bucket full.

I am just amazed how opinion swings. A year ago he was vilified on this site as being rubbish and the death knell of the Martinez regime he is now espoused as a great centre-forward. My feeling is he is somewhere in-between.

Liam Reilly
72 Posted 24/09/2017 at 10:59:53
Koeman didn't rate him when he came to the club and that's fine (I'm not sure many of us did), but he didn't have to treat the boy so badly in the public domain.

Still Niasse seems willing to play for him (or Everton anyway), which is good news with the form he's in.

I'd imagine he'll start on Thursday with only one of Siggy or Rooney (which is how it should be).

Although I thought Martina did okay yesterday Kenny needs to start also, because he delivers the ball with pace also as opposed to Martina's floated deliveries.

Dave Ganley
74 Posted 24/09/2017 at 11:10:27
Don Alexander and Chris Gould – spot on; good posts.

Niasse took his goals well and I hope he continues to do so but let's be honest, he's never going to be top drawer. He is showing better signs than he originally did but that isn't hard given he was appalling.

I was really disappointed with selection again yesterday, there's just no balance in the team. Looked better when the subs came on but wasn't satisfying by any stretch of the imagination. Gylfi looked so much better when Rooney came off and the post suggesting that Barkley is better than Gylfi is laughable. Sigurdsson is just class when played in his correct position.

I was a big advocate of Koeman but it's been like watching Martinez's team, a phrase that came to mind yesterday at the game was it was a bit like sex, plenty of foreplay but no penetration.

Koeman needs to learn and quickly that he needs to play a balanced team with some width. It's no good just shoehorning players into a team just so they play. You don't always need the so called best players to make the best team.

I'll support Koeman for now and I think the bile and vitriolic attacks on him on this site have been unnecessary. It's been quite depressing reading some of the comments over the last few weeks. Some appear to be willing the team to lose so they can attack Koeman again.

I appreciate people's opinion but to attack the way some have is just ridiculous. I didn't like or want Martinez, never thought he was good enough and made my feelings quite well known but I always wanted us to win and I don't think I was ever that personal about him like some are about Koeman.

Constructive criticism is one thing but sheer anger and savage attacks have no place for me.

Koeman isn't doing it for me at the moment. I think the players that have been brought in are an improvement on what we had, Lukaku being the exception, whether Koeman can mould them into a team remains to be seen.

If not then he will get the sack no doubt but let's hope he can and we start playing well and winning games. Some will no doubt hope for the worst but most just want a winning team.
COYB

Daniel Lim
75 Posted 24/09/2017 at 11:15:29
I will be happy if each of Niasse and Calvert-Lewin score a dozen of goals. Here's hoping.
Lenny Kingman
76 Posted 24/09/2017 at 12:16:17
Niasse has come on the park with little or no pressure to perform in a woeful performance by the Blues. Then he pulls two rabbits out the hat in quick succession.

The expectancy levels and pressure on him will rise considerably now and that is when the real Niasse will surface. What ability he will be showing then is about to be revealed in the coming weeks.

I have a feeling that his humility and 'nice guy' image may prove a stumbling block to long term success in the cut and thrust of this league, and may soon find himself returning to the back benches from whence he came.

Andy Meighan
77 Posted 24/09/2017 at 12:32:06
Dave Ganley,

Barkley is a better player than Sigurdsson, absolutely no doubt he's quicker, got two good feet, can spot a pass, and is decent in the air. His decision-making at times is questionable, I'll grant you that.

As for Sigurdsson, he's shown nothing yet; he's been on the periphery of every game he's played in and I said at the time, this is going to be £45 million pissed up the wall. He might come good played in the so-called No 10 role; he might not.

My guess is he'll turn out to be the biggest flop the club has made because it looks like he was bought only for his free-kick ability. He's done nothing to justify that ridiculous fee so far and I doubt he will.

The thing is he 'll start every game because of that fee... Another Koeman misfit as far as I'm concerned.

Lewis Montgomery
78 Posted 24/09/2017 at 13:08:21
Give him a locker...now!!
Ray Smith
79 Posted 24/09/2017 at 13:27:57
Totally accept that we need a top rate striker to push us up into the top 6.

However, my post is this. Do we have a Gerrard/Lampard situation with Rooney and Sigurdsson, not being able to play together?

Before Rooney went to Man Utd, we played everything through him. Now he's back we are doing it again.

I personally am glad to see Rooney back, however, when he went off yesterday we came alive. He didn't play against Sunderland, but that is probably not a good yardstick with their current situation.

Perhaps we should use Rooney where we need to slow teams down, and Sigurdsson when we go for the opposition.

How would Ross get on alongside Sigurdsson? We will probably never know.

Steve Bingham
80 Posted 24/09/2017 at 13:34:13
All I saw from the game was how we are still screaming out for a creative midfielder who can collect the ball, move forward, and make things happen.

Sigurdsson is wasted in that left side middle come no where position although his work rate was terrific all game.I still think Klaassen is too lightweight but his performance did show signs of improvement.

Young Kenny should definitely be given the starting spot as he is far quicker and looked solid as soon as he came on. To win was great but still an awful lot of work for the manager to do.

Barry Williams
81 Posted 24/09/2017 at 13:34:51
This idea that Niasse is not the long term answer seems a little harsh. He has been knocking goals in for Hull, U23s and now in just over an hour has managed 3 goals this season.

Just throwing money at something is not the answer when the answer may already be at the club. We need another decent striker to complement the squad, not replace those in it, in my opinion.

Dave Bowen
82 Posted 24/09/2017 at 14:18:12
I find some posters' suggestion that Niasse was appalling when he arrived, a little unfair. His wrist injury, his arrest, coupled with Martinez's team turning to shit did him no favours. Moving from one side of the continent to the other is never easy (see Bily, McGeady etc).

Being seen as Lukaku's replacement certainly didn't help either. I found Koeman's decision to banish him after 45 minutes of a friendly baffling & the majority of Blues just went along with Koeman. I just don't think he's Koeman's type of player & despite yesterday, I still don't.

Now he has settled into life here, we may have a real striker on our hands. I just hope Koeman keeps giving him a chance. Likewise, we may not see the best of Sandro & Klaassen until next season at least.

Jim Wilson
83 Posted 24/09/2017 at 14:39:02
The only turning point for me is Koeman getting the sack. He had a chance with a great club and has blown it big time along with £200m.
Neil Lawson
84 Posted 24/09/2017 at 14:49:42
David 36. Pictures speak a thousand words. Koeman's lack of reaction to the equaliser was appalling. Contrast Big Duncan.

If Koeman is unable to display even a tiny bit of passion for his team then he should depart now and go and manage the England ladies. They appear to be desperate for a manager who is utterly detached.

Paul Thompson
85 Posted 24/09/2017 at 15:19:19
Judging a manager through his body language is infantile. Plenty of top managers prefer the poker face, while at the other end you have the Klopp and Conte antics. Managers should be judged by their ability over a reasonable period of time.

The jury is out on Koeman but, despite the sackers and haters, he ain't going anywhere for the time being. As a number of posters have said, let's see if, when and what he learns from this somewhat fortuitous turnaround.

George Cumiskey
86 Posted 24/09/2017 at 15:26:09
Paul @86 I think the jury has been out and is back in, have you seen anything this season in Europe or the Premier League that makes you think he's been learning from his mistakes?
Paul Smith
87 Posted 24/09/2017 at 15:26:50
Neil, how did he react to the winner?

I think you'll find he got animated so tells us nothing really, does it?

Tom Bowers
88 Posted 24/09/2017 at 15:44:16
It's always nice to win, even if it's against woeful Bournemouth, but one swallow doesn't make a Summer and let's not forget the Blues were 12 minutes away from another disaster.

Tom Davies made a difference after Klaassen proved once again he has a way to go in this league.

David Barks
95 Posted 24/09/2017 at 16:10:20
Well Niasse won't be able to bail Koeman out in Europe since he wasn't even included in the 26-man squad. I guess the long list of strikers ahead of him on the depth chart will need to be the ones to save matches for Koeman in Europe.
Steavey Buckley
96 Posted 24/09/2017 at 16:27:19
The two most important players for Everton and the first 2 names on the team sheet for now, are Calvert-Lewin and Niasse, so should be rested on Thursday to have them fit and ready for Burnley, who have beaten Chelsea away and drew with Liverpool and Spurs also away. So are not pushovers anymore. Davies can also be treated the same way as Calvert-Lewin and Niasse.
Frank Crewe
97 Posted 24/09/2017 at 16:28:43
Koeman doesn't get Everton at all. The fact that he never took his hand out of his pockets when Niasse equalised when everyone else was bouncing, including big Dunc, says it all. It isn't how he saw things and he isn't happy.

He wanted the players he bought to be the match winners. Yet they have mostly been very poor. Sandro, Klaassen, Martina haven't produced anything and Schneiderlin has lost his form.

Koeman needs to re-evaluate why he is at Everton because he appears to be at odds with what the rest of us want.

Brian Williams
98 Posted 24/09/2017 at 16:43:09
What are you trying to say tho' Tom? :-)
Tony Hill
99 Posted 24/09/2017 at 17:03:38
Regardless of Koeman, I have started to get a feeling that we have a really good side brewing.

If asked to justify that, I couldn't do so beyond waffling about a mix of youth and experience and having some players (including some not yet really on the radar like Onyekuru and Baningime) who just look right for a classic Everton side; all that sort of stuff. It could evaporate, of course, if the talent and promise are mismanaged, but it's there I think.

God knows why I have this instinct given our results and performances recently, but I do. Perhaps it's the onset of old age.

Neil Lawson
100 Posted 24/09/2017 at 17:55:51
Paul (#88). At 62 I am almost flattered to be described as infantile. How many other persons at Goodison supporting Everton looked miserable when they equalised? If you were there, I would venture to suggest that you didn't.
Neil Cremin
101 Posted 24/09/2017 at 18:01:40
Maybe Koeman may start rehabilitating Barkley, Mirallas, McCarthy and the young players and realise that the team needs two things pace and passion.

A good manager admits when he is wrong and corrects his mistakes. A bad manager persists with his plan A in a stubborn attempt to vindicate himself.

We all saw the result of the change on Saturday; let's see what type of manager Koeman turns out to be.

Martin Mason
102 Posted 24/09/2017 at 18:09:47
One game at a time now, just how we recovered after the low point of Oxford in the 80s. Played 2 won 2 in the last 2 games is great form.

How Niasse was before also isn't important only how he is now. We have some exceptional players knocking on the door now and coming through the ranks and our Coach surely can't get any worse? It looks positive to me.

Tom Bowers
103 Posted 24/09/2017 at 18:13:23
Everton do have a lot of talent at the club but also some who are just not up to snuff and may never be. The right manager is needed and it may not be Koeman given what he has shown so far.

I question what really went on regarding Barkley and Niasse and whether Koeman was partly to blame even if the players themselves had issues.

As Niasse cost £13.5 million, I wonder if someone higher up told Koeman he has to include him given the lack of goals before this last week.

I saw a young Liverpool lad (Duffy) score a cracker for Sheffield Utd today. Maybe he should be eyed up for January?

Oliver Molloy
104 Posted 24/09/2017 at 21:10:18
Andy @ 70,

That would be telling now. I just listen to people Andy , and I didn't say he had a clause that he would start every game so get your facts right and keep up.

"Mark my words" – You have the details of all contracts of all footballers do you ?

Just off the top of my head when Ronaldo first joined Man Utd it was in his contract he would play / start a minimum 50% of games in the league, so that's not shit!

When the big clubs send good players out on a loan , there may not be a contract written up, but the loaning club would be looking for their player to play football – that's commonly known.

Bob Parrington
105 Posted 24/09/2017 at 22:13:56
Wish we had copies of all the posts ref Oumar Niasse when he first arrived. I'm pretty sure they were 99% negative. How many are eating humble pie now? Or is it that Koeman is the new OM?

It'll be interesting to see what the next 8 months reveal.

Lee Brownlie
106 Posted 25/09/2017 at 05:36:33
Talking 'up' a player he'd publicly stated 'has no future' at Everton! What utter bollocks!!! Yep, I'm really starting to dislike this manager!!

He tells people, including us, to be 'realistic' when we get stuffed... as we have been several times this season, already now! And then calls it 'ridiculous' that his position might be perceived as under threat!! – regardless of aforementioned total-bag-o-shite-ness!!!

And now talking like he'd known all along that Niasse was a good squad option, fast, etc etc!! Really? Honestly, have you ever known any supposedly 'top' football manager so arrogant and self-deflecting of responsibility for his own inadequacies??? (Okay, apart from Wenger!!)

"Oi, Ronald!... Yer mate Frank (another near-miss it seems now!) went that way; you could catch him up if you got your skates on!!!"

I'm reminded, now, why the Dutch never won the World Cup, or that much else considering how 'talented' their players usually were... they were too often a bunch of egocentric individuals, who, again too often, just didn't get on and clearly blamed team-mates, the tea-lady, whoever, when the 'going got tough'!!

Ring any bells? Basically, whatever happens, it's only down to Koeman if it'll look good on his CV for Barcelona!! This pathetic drivel he's serving up clearly is neither his fault; it's just we're little Everton. ('So what did we expect?') Nor anyway, would it be anything other than ridiculous to consider sacking the manager over such crap, right???

Mark Murphy
107 Posted 25/09/2017 at 06:48:58
I agree with Tom Bowers (#103) but think Moshiri has probably had a word regarding a £13.5M investment that was being written off and squandered by Koeman. Whilst I agree, the manager should pick the team, the way Niasse was being ignored and his resale value plummeting probably rang alarm bells upstairs.

As for him being "shit" he's scored goals against Man Utd, Liverpool and now 3 in 2 for us as well as several in the U23s.

If he'd got one flukey goal against a crap side I'd agree but he's got a decent enough record now to suggest he does actually know where the net is, not just lucky!

I've done a u-turn on Koeman and want him gone - ironically after the win he so needed. We wouldn't have got that win using his Plan A – and Plan B, I'm convinced, wasn't his Plan B!

Paul Ward
108 Posted 25/09/2017 at 07:57:31
Bob Parrington @105.

You are spot-on Bob. I was amazed at the amount of posters that mostly used the word "shite" to describe Oumar Niasse. I used to think, "Do these people have access to Finch Farm and see something most of us don't?" – because he never got a full 90 minutes to show.

When Koeman cut Niasse off after a 45 minutes in a friendly game, I thought it might have been something outside football. At that time Niasse was involved in a domestic incident in which the police were involved but it may have been paper talk.

Oliver Molloy
109 Posted 25/09/2017 at 09:14:18
Paul,

I think he was described as clumsy in training and didn't Lukaku say something about it will take time for him to get used to us etc? (For me, that was him telling us not to get too excited.)

Don't forget Koeman see's these players every day in training so he knows better than us in my opinion.

If ever there has been carrot dangling in front of Niasse then this is it, who else was going to score , as soon as he came on you just knew he would be breaking his balls to score.

Koeman could have left him on the bench. There have been players like Niasse before, and there will be in the future.

John Roberts
112 Posted 25/09/2017 at 09:17:31
Niasse will do in the current state and if Koeman doesn't start him Sunday I will have lost the will to live with him.

But I can't see him being the long term future. He has got a few goals in him probably as he plays on the last man and has pace but he's not a world beater. He won't worry the opposition too much and there will be games he drifts out of but he's the best of our toothless attack at the moment and must start.

John Keating
113 Posted 25/09/2017 at 09:36:10
Hopefully now Koeman will realise there is an option to his negative, defensive tactics, especially at home. 4-4-2
John Pierce
114 Posted 25/09/2017 at 17:11:59
‪Says it all with Koeman; his first comment on the Niasse goal was “He was defending”. Such a defensive shithouse that fella.

Just enjoy the moment, Ron lad, FFS!

Damian Nolan
115 Posted 25/09/2017 at 17:26:54
People should stop calling for Koeman's head. It is ridiculous at this stage. Anymore of this and we may as well all be Geordies.
David Barks
116 Posted 25/09/2017 at 17:30:37
Okay, Damian. Because they're the only example of a club that sacks a manager with less than two years on the job in mid-season, as performances continue to go backward in the second year of his time on the job? You can't think of any other examples?
Peter Gorman
117 Posted 25/09/2017 at 17:33:07
Damien, why is it ridiculous?
Peter Gorman
118 Posted 25/09/2017 at 17:42:38
Bob @105 – why don't you do the leg-work to back up your 99% claim? The thread will be there.

When Koeman said Niasse had no place at the club, John Daley dug up the thread and it was majorly in favour of the player, and that was after having the benefit of seeing him in action once or twice.

Please post a link of what you find.

Gerard McKean
119 Posted 25/09/2017 at 18:41:02
Does anybody else share my concern that we seem to be picking the team and not the guy being paid £6m a year? It was fan pressure that brought Tom Davies into the team and it was abundantly clear in this match that Koeman was cajoled into making the right substitutions by 40,000 advisers.

It's great when it works but it is worrying when a manager seems so bereft of vision that he turns to us for ideas. Here's another one: play two up front (Calvert-Lewin plus one) and save spending £40m on a 30-year-old deemed past his sell-by date by Arsenal.

Martin Mason
120 Posted 25/09/2017 at 18:47:02
Gerard,

Based on how we've played when we've tried it and on our fairly weak defence, playing two up front may not help. To do so would mean losing a defensive midfielder; we look shaky with 5 in midfield so how would we look with 4?

Does anybody now play 4-4-2 or without 2 defensive midfielders? I don't think so.

Dermot Byrne
121 Posted 25/09/2017 at 18:49:01
Peter... enough forensics. Every twist means some are caught out for previously talking shite. Find me one person on TW this hasn't happened to, and you will present me with a gobshite! Happens to some of us weekly but that is another story!
John Pierce
122 Posted 26/09/2017 at 04:22:25
Ultimately Koeman bought himself some time this week. Only if he continues to select the players who have saved him.

If his continued reasoning, that his experienced players are the ones to prevail, he will find another more conservative section of the support fall away.

Fans love to see youth and the fearlessness is often brings, so much more forgiving of the player and in turn the manager.

If he chooses not to select Davies, Kenny & Holgate on Thursday against a modest Cypriot side, well, who could blame anyone for slaughtering him?

Will Mabon
123 Posted 26/09/2017 at 06:41:24
"If he chooses not to select Davies, Kenny & Holgate On Thursday against a modest Cypriot side well who could blame anyone for slaughtering him?"


There's an argument for that John, but since we are on the back of a 3-0 battering at Atalanta, Koeman's mind will be on a guaranteed safe 1-0 win. Not a bad thing in itself in the circumstances, but how that will be manifest in his team selection and set up is anyone's guess. Me, I'd go all out to tear them to pieces and sort the goal difference but what do I know?

Brian Porter
124 Posted 26/09/2017 at 08:48:52
Gérard (#119), sadly, I have to agree with you. I say sadly, because we are paying £6m a year to a dullard of a manager who is rapidly earning his Clueless Koeman name more and more with each passing game.

If he would just show some signs of being able to learn from his mistakes he might just earn more respect from the fans who are becoming increasingly frustrated with his intransigence and lack of imagination. His constant adherence to his plan, whatever that may be is taking us down, down, down and we must be the most boring team in the league to watch.

Dave Richman
125 Posted 26/09/2017 at 11:19:26
To all of those advocating Niasse to start on Thursday night – I will bet you 1,000 pounds that he doesn't.

And to the poster earlier who castigated Koeman for preferring Sigurdsson over Barkley, I'm pretty certain that 100% of managers would pick a fit player (Sigurdsson) over an injured player (Barkley). Just my opinion.

Anthony Hawkins
126 Posted 26/09/2017 at 11:39:10
@Dave 125 you might want to adjust the 100% rating to cater for the James McCarthy scenarios.
James Hughes
127 Posted 26/09/2017 at 11:42:52
Niasse can't play Thursday as he isn't in our Europa League squad

Link

Dave Richman
128 Posted 26/09/2017 at 11:56:39
James Hughes: You spoilsport! I was on a winner there :)

Anthony: Well there's always the exception!

John Pierce
129 Posted 26/09/2017 at 17:39:06
Will,

I would select a side to try and decimate Limassoll. They are not used to a fast, energy-driven approach.

Perhaps if our coach does so, we accrue a good early lead, imbue confidence for our next game. Allow players who need pitch rime to come on and finish the job.

But as you say the manager is slow to learn, or actually is just a stubborn Son of a Bitch, sees what we see but only changes on his terms, and cannot for one second be seen to drift with the tide.

As a crucial example, should he drop Schneiderlin on Thursday, many would see that as a good move. But will he?

Robin Cannon
130 Posted 26/09/2017 at 17:41:23
John #129

"They are not used to a fast, energy-driven approach."

Neither are we, to be fair.

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