Sigurdsson: Things aren't clicking but we're determined to start winning

Tuesday 17 October 2017  104 Comments  [Jump to last]

Gyfli Sigurdsson admits that things have not gone according to plan for him at Everton since his big-money move from Swansea City but he believes things will come right for the Blues with a couple of wins.

The Icelandic international went from the highs of helping his country qualify for the World Cup Finals for the first time in their history to the disappointment of a scraped 1-1 draw at Brighton at the weekend which has left the Blues languishing in 16th place in the Premier League table with just two wins from eight games.

Sigurdsson scored a spectacular equaliser in Split that secured Everton's qualification for the group stage of the Europa League but has yet to register either an assist or goal in league action since leaving the Liberty Stadium in a £45m deal in August.

He says that the team's struggles are mirrored by individual displays but he feels all the team needs is a boost in confidence.

“It is not going as I hoped,” Sigurdsson says in the Daily Star. “No, of course not. For the team as well. Personally and collectively we are just off our best.

“That is reflecting in individual performances. But it's small margins. I don't think we're a mile off getting results.

“A couple of scruffy wins would bring some confidence to the team and that's sometimes all you need.

“The next game [against Lyon] is the most important one. We just need to win. Once we do that the confidence will come back into the team and things will become a bit easier for us.

“We just have to work our way through this. We are not scoring enough goals and we are conceding too many. I don't think we are too far away but things just aren't clicking.

“We're all more than determined to turn it around. We have some big players.”

His team-mate and fellow new arrival, Jordan Pickford, was similarly upbeat following the game at Brighton that saw Wayne Rooney salvage a point eight minutes after Anthony Knockaert looked to have handed the Seagulls all three points.

“We just didn't get the finishing touch, really," the goalkeeper told evertonfc.com. "We have played well as a group and we are only moving forward. We'll take positives from it.

“We wanted three points but the main thing is we haven't lost. We can take confidence going into the next game."  


Reader Comments (104)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Brian Cleveland
1 Posted 17/10/2017 at 00:34:48
“The next game [against Lyon] is the most important one. We just need to win. Once we do that the confidence will come back into the team and things will become a bit easier for us."

I'll believe it when I see it, Gylfi. Sorry, but I've lost all confidence... no better than under Bobby and he had a lot less money to play with...

Peter Gorman
2 Posted 17/10/2017 at 00:40:24
"“We wanted three points but the main thing is we haven't lost."

Against Brighton? No, the main thing is you failed to win.

Denny Kerr
3 Posted 17/10/2017 at 00:53:08
Wow! we are in deeper trouble than I thought. These players remind me of politicians... living in their own privileged world, completely out of touch with reality.

"We have played well as a group".… He must be playing for some other team on the side.

Mike Gaynes
4 Posted 17/10/2017 at 01:10:10
I'm still very confident Sigurdsson will come good. Watching him guide Iceland into the World Cup last week reminded me what he's capable of... when in the right system and among players he knows. Not yet the case here.

Can't figure out Pickford's comments at all, but he's playing well enough that he can recite Jabberwocky in his interviews and I won't care. It could be argued that he's the only player in our side who is playing up to the proper standard.

Andy Mead
5 Posted 17/10/2017 at 02:02:58
Typical PR nonsense from players. What are they supposed to say?

"The manager hasn't got a clear plan and I am being played out of position like everybody else?"

Play him either in a conventional cm position or behind the striker! I didn't see him playing wide left for Swansea.

Mike Gaynes
6 Posted 17/10/2017 at 03:07:07
Guess you weren't watching them, Andy (#5). He spent most of the last half of the season wide left. Teams were clogging up the middle to close off his lanes. One of the first adjustments Clement made when he took over from Bradley was to shift Sigurdsson outside. He did fine because his teammates kept getting him the ball, and he knew in advance where to play it for them. Check out their late season highlights for a couple of Sigurdsson's crosses from the left that found Llorente's head.

His problem in my opinion isn't his position on the field... it's that he's not getting the ball enough and doesn't know yet what his targets are. Sigurdsson's game is all about anticipation, but we're so disorganized up front that right now he can't anticipate where anybody's going to be. And he sure as hell needs more touches.

William Cartwright
7 Posted 17/10/2017 at 03:27:44
Typical but understandable comments with some elements of truth and logic. What else is he expected to say? Run off with a rant about the manager's weekly cock-ups and then be sidelined like Barkley, Kenny and Lookman....

Form is temporary and class is permanent. I just hope he outlasts Koeman then we can start afresh.

Jamie Sweet
8 Posted 17/10/2017 at 03:50:36
You can stop panicking now everybody. We are "determined" to start winning games some time soon.

Thanks goodness for that.

It's a shame that the next three are probably games that Mosh and Ron have marked down as "expect us to lose".

Rick Barnes
9 Posted 17/10/2017 at 04:46:08
I try not to make rash judgements so I've held off on giving my opinion on Sigurdsson but after ten games the 'give him time' argument from people like Phil Neville is wearing thin. He is my biggest disappointment this season and has had no impact on games at all.

Every five minutes or so I play a game where I wonder where he is – then I look around the screen trying to see the number 18, inevitably I find him off somewhere nowhere near where I expect him to be, like a bad spot-the-ball competition. Then I watch as the game plays around him. He doesn't tackle. Mostly he passes backwards. His forward passes hit defenders.

I know the reply could be "play him in his right position" (ToffeeWebbers say this a lot at the moment) but these deficiencies are not a result of being played in an unfamiliar position. I'm pretty sure a decent footballer can play more of the pitch than a 3 x 3 square of turf right behind the forward. And it's not like he's a goalkeeper asked to play centre forward – he's an attacking midfielder asked to play slightly wider than centre.

I'm writing this coz it's a plea of desperation, I'm so hoping someone will reply with something to assure me he's actually really good and I don't know what I'm talking about. I want to be 100% wrong and learn to love the useless Icelandic penguin. But if the argument hinges on his free kicks or something, there's a guy in Row KK with a sore face who thinks otherwise.

I'm hoping someone sees something amazing in him that I don't.

John Pierce
10 Posted 17/10/2017 at 05:10:33
Rick, I think the view you hold is valid as, let's face it the evidence in an Everton shirt amounts to very little in support of Sigurdsson. I agree despite the malaise he should at his level be producing more.

I've watched Iceland's last three World Cup qualifying games. Ran the show in 2/3 games scored 3 goals played behind the strikers and in central midfield.

He did look marginally better Sunday but the bar is so low he'd trip over it. But I saw better delivery and generally a more comfortable player in the role he started in.

My support for him is shapes up to no runners in the team. If he had a target, things would be different for him, maybe not the team but you'd see a better version of Glyfi.

Alan J Thompson
11 Posted 17/10/2017 at 06:05:37
Mike (#6); You may be right in what you say about Swansea using him wide left but I don't see the point of it, or Vlasic and Calvert-Lewin playing wide at Everton when we don't have anyone to find in the middle – although that may be the final point of your post.
Gerry Killen
12 Posted 17/10/2017 at 07:32:31
If I may add a word or two... when we were signing a new player nearly every week pre-season, the thing that stood out was the number of midfielders we were bringing in. Then the protracted negotiations over Sigurdsson... Then Uncle Bill over-ruled everyone and brought in his love-child Rooney. I am certain Koeman didn't particularly want him.

I would like to try and kill two birds with one stone here – bear with me. We have too many captains on the field at the moment, so make Rooney captain till January; give him a free hand in choosing the team along with Koeman. If it doesn't work out, get rid of him and Bill and Duncan as well!

We all love our club and only want the best. COYB

Will Mabon
13 Posted 17/10/2017 at 08:26:04
I share your concerns, Rick. I've never been overly impressed with Sigurdsson but he is certainly far better than we've seen. Thing is, his role is quite specific. He has no particular pace, is not much of a tackler, not a dribbler so can't really pass players. He's actually knocked off the ball fairly easily at times, too.

His crossing, shooting, passing, finding of and movement into space, dead balls, receiving of the ball and general vision are all better than we've seen so far. He'll get much better under a manager worthy of the description.

That square of turf is indeed where he needs to play, but it's a little bigger than 3 x 3! Yes, he's played out left for Swansea, but in a team with settled players that know each others' game. His best position is central.

Almost all the players are below par in this current malaise, and they'll almost all improve substantially when things are sorted. I have certain concerns but we're not seeing enough to know anything for sure as things are. I wouldn't underestimate what poor team spirit can do to players.

This said, we paid too much for him IMO – and I'd take Barkley over him all day long in a choice between the two.

Tony Marsh
14 Posted 17/10/2017 at 08:37:34
Definitely the worst Premier League deal of the summer was our Siggy. We got a smacked arse on this deal. We only got £30 million more for Lukaku than we paid for this ageing dud. Terrible piece of business. Basically we have swapped Romelu Lukaku for Sigurdsson as and Klaassen!!!

After 10 games, it is fair to say Siggy is going down in to the Everton Hall of Fame – Legendary Shite Midfielders section.

Danny Williamson, Scott Gemill, Tobias Linderoth, Alex Nyarko... all shocking. Welcome aboard, Gylfi – you've earned your stripes.

Dave Evans
15 Posted 17/10/2017 at 08:40:26
Koeman and Moshiri have lowered expectations over the last couple of weeks. It has now filtered to the players. At the moment, Koeman's coaching is having an adverse effect on all players.

The tactical system, if there is one, seems to be 'Whatever you do don't make a mistake' which of course is working great.

Expectations will continue to be lowered until everyone is as happy as a cuckoo with 8th.

Lenny Kingman
16 Posted 17/10/2017 at 08:40:43
They may not be clicking but they are ticking. The clock for Koeman that is. Tick tock..
Dave Evans
17 Posted 17/10/2017 at 08:50:33
Tony. A bit Harsh on Siggy. I would reserve judgement a little longer or until we see him under a different coach.
Andy Meighan
18 Posted 17/10/2017 at 08:53:53
Why do these morons state the obvious? They must take us for dickheads. Not going to say otherwise, is he? Even Jagielka said confidence is low in the dressing room, so that tells me all I need to know about the current set-up.

I'm with Rick and Marshy on this – a shocking buy at a vastly inflated fee He's shown Jack Shit apart from that goal in Split and Koeman again has shown he wouldn't know a player if he smacked him in the face.

Oh, and another thing: I don't care what he does for Iceland – I don't support Iceland! I support Everton and he's done fuck all since he came.

Tony Marsh
19 Posted 17/10/2017 at 08:55:41
Dave (#17),

I am only going on what I have seen so far at Everton. I don't give a shit what Sigurdsson does for Iceland or did for Swansea. Who is to say we will see Gylfi play under another coach?

The clowns running this club might stick with Koeman until it's to late and destroy everything.

Danny Broderick
20 Posted 17/10/2017 at 09:32:00
Sigurdsson is suffering from our formation and team selection at the moment, just like the centre-mids and Rooney have been suffering. It's too congested in the middle. Get some legs out wide, and they will all be able to get some space and pick out a pass.

I wouldn't write Sigurdsson off yet, although his form has been far from ideal as yet...

Michael Lynch
21 Posted 17/10/2017 at 09:44:49
Predictable, dull, careless, unimaginative, error-strewn, muddled, weak – and that's just the players' interviews... don't get me started on the football we're playing.

Tony Everan
22 Posted 17/10/2017 at 10:05:56
Hold your horses on the Sigurdsson criticism.

No striker means defences can hold their shape.

No pace means opponents can stay organised and calm, even teams like Burnley and Brighton don't get stretched or stressed too much.

No pace = no counter attacking threat.

No movement from any forward player means sideways passing and midfield congestion. Never getting behind the full back and cutting the ball back to the 18 yard line.

Any of these ingredients would see Sigurdsson in a better light and facilitate goals from him.

He's not settled in , can play better and needs to be more involved. Just attacking him individually though is unfair and unjustified.

The only players I have seen who can Inject some movement pace and energy recently are Davies and Mirallas.

Paul Kennedy
23 Posted 17/10/2017 at 10:23:54
Most definitely not clicking – we are most surely cracking apart! There appears to be a wide gulf between what the players are experiencing as opposed to what we fans are feeling.
Jer Kiernan
24 Posted 17/10/2017 at 10:29:21
You've got to love these guys! £45 million sign on god knows what wages and he gives us this "We are not scoring enough goals and we are conceding too many."

Well, now that we have finally established that, we can move on to our formation, and kicking the ball in the right direction, maybe?

Patience, Twebbers... Patience!!!

Oliver Brunel
25 Posted 17/10/2017 at 10:31:11
"We have played well as a group".

Appalling statement and an insult to the intelligence of the fans. These lightweight average dullards need a huge kick up the arse and the old guard need to be dispatched immediately. If they can't be bothered to give 150% then cull them.

It's clear Koeman can't motivate the team but there is a clique of comfortable non triers who are on cruise control with no demands that they must get into Champions League etc. Koeman has bought utter crap (I actually think only Vlasic is good enough).

There is simply no leadership at the club. We are now facing the unbelievable fact that Newcastle (yes the Teletubbies in stripes) are better than us and up for sale, likely to get an owner who doesn't have to discuss player purchases with Bill Kenwright.

I'd love someone to explain to me why Sigurdsson is worth £45M and Dowell has been sent out on loan? I think Jose Baxter is a much better footballer than Sigurdsson or Klaassen.

Paul Kennedy
26 Posted 17/10/2017 at 10:31:48
I think the bookmakers odds show what kind of standing we have in the present game: only 2 listed I would be happy with!

Carlo Ancelotti - 4/1
David Unsworth - 6/1
Paulo Fonseca - 8/1
Rafael Benitez - 10/1
Sam Allardyce - 10/1
Eddie Howe - 10/1
Sean Dyche - 12/1
Chris Coleman - 12/1

Alan Bodell
27 Posted 17/10/2017 at 10:43:36
Tony (#22), you summed it up there mate, no movement and no pace. Opposition defences are having a field day against this lot..

Meanwhile, Lookman is not even on the bench and I often look at all our coaching staff during games with their bewildered looks... fucking joke they all are.

Liam Reilly
28 Posted 17/10/2017 at 10:45:49
Very harsh criticism of Sigurdsson on here.

The protracted negotiations meant that he had no proper pre-season and he came into a team struggling with confidence.

"His forward passes find defenders" –Forward to what exactly?

There is no pace or width in the side and the opponent defenses are not stretched so there's no room to play these passes into.

Phil Sammon
29 Posted 17/10/2017 at 11:03:02
Wonderful player. The problem isn't him being wide left or central or whatever – it's that he has nobody making runs for him. Him, Rooney, Davies, Klaassen, Schneiderlin, Gueye... all suffering the same problems. Swap a couple of them for players who stretch the pitch and find space and I'm sure we'll see improvement.
Terry Underwood
30 Posted 17/10/2017 at 11:34:55
Open memo to all the players: the time for talking, platitudes, and public relations is long past. The time for actually earning your massive pay packets is here and has been for some time.

We can accept getting beat; what grates is the inept performances we have seen all season. Granted, Koeman is also at fault, he decides the team and the tactics, but even playing out of position, a top player should be able to pass the ball.

On MotD, Martin Keown said we lacked movement, the footage proved him correct. Players don't want the ball, they seem scared. Needs sorting and quick

Oliver Brunel
31 Posted 17/10/2017 at 11:43:14
I accept the points that there is no striker, no movement, no wing backs bombing up and down to pull defenders wide to create space etc. But we sit too deep, are ponderous on the ball, no movement off the ball, no fight and no effort.

Rooney as a young fella played in an utterly crap team and made it happen by himself, all great players do. 'Some are born great, some achieve greatness, some have greatness thrust upon them'.

The mediocrities now wearing blue shirts have had it thrust upon them, made to look great in an over-rated, over-hyped Premier League.

Tony McNulty
32 Posted 17/10/2017 at 11:52:33
Strange selection choices, the lack of a plan, and presumably team talks comprising the sort of platitudinous piffle we have to listen to in the post-match interviews.

I will be surprised if Ronald turns this around.

Barry Williams
33 Posted 17/10/2017 at 11:58:34
Sigurdsson is, in my mind at least, no doubt a good player. He wanted to come to Everton, but the transfer was prolonged, he missed preseason and is now playing catch-up in an unfamiliar side.

We had been interested in him a long time, but left it so late in the transfer window to actually get him that the season had started. His game time certainly could have been managed better, especially considering that we have quite a few players in his no.10 position.

Ease him in gently. Whether he plays on the left or not, looking at the set-up of the Brighton game, he didn't have anyone to aim for anyway as our target man was on the left wing, occupying his previous position. Again, I assume we bought him as part of a larger plan that included a big target man, again which never materialized, leaving us short in another key position. As was stated a few times, we have the gun, but no bullets.

The Barkley situation is a interesting. How did we let it come down to him running his contract down? Was there an assumption that, as a local boy, he'd sign regardless. Just pure conjecture on my behalf, but how did it come to this?

What is going on on the actual pitch has been covered on here, like many others I just don't get it and apathy that I haven't felt since Martinez has replaced my optimism, but in record time. It wasn't long ago that I was arguing the case for Koeman.

Which brings me onto the whole set-up at Everton. Is it all a bit complicated and convoluted? From my limited knowledge, not long ago we had a manager and a chairman who dealt with transfer dealings. The manager had his own backroom staff and scouts. Look at the best Moyes years and see who those scouts were able to bring in for bargain transfer fees. There is no need to list them as I am sure we are all familiar with them.

Now, we seem to have two in the chairmen role pulling the strings, a manager, a Director of Football and backroom staff who were given to the manager and had never worked with him previously. It all seems a bit complicated.

The commercial side of things looks a lot better, the youth set-up looks great, we really have bought for the future and I hope it comes to fruition. However, for all this to pay dividends we need to be functioning as a football team, which we are clearly not. Is it a case of too many fingers in the pie?

Again, I feel that there seems to be some lack of communication within the club, I base this on nothing but what I have pointed out so far. Getting back to fundamentals might be what we need short term, both on and off the pitch. Defined roles!

Apologies for my meanderings!

Tom Bowers
34 Posted 17/10/2017 at 12:49:31
Being determined to start winning does not mean it will happen, Gylfi!

The team has no punch where it matters despite the introduction of Vlasic and Calvert-Lewin.

Some things need to change and fast but Koeman seems unable to raise the game.

Alasdair Mackay
35 Posted 17/10/2017 at 12:55:15
As much as anyone can feel sorry for a multi-millionaire footballer, I feel a bit sorry for Sigurdsson.

The pressure of being a record buy, combined with the protracted nature of the transfer and the ineptitude of the coach once he finally did arrive, has left him ham-strung a bit.

Sack Koeman – that's the answer.

Rudi Coote
36 Posted 17/10/2017 at 12:56:07
I wonder whose turn it is next to give us this bullshit of needing to improve?

Don't tell us – just bleedin' do it! Only you, the players, can do it. Actions, not words!

Michael Penley
37 Posted 17/10/2017 at 12:58:52
"We are not scoring enough goals and we are conceding too many."

Brilliant. Siggy for manager?

Sean Patton
38 Posted 17/10/2017 at 13:36:56
The point about no pre-season holds no sway as he has shone for Iceland already this season. He had 23 touches on Sunday so doesn't get involved with the play and his set pieces, which he was known for, are erratic at best, He is a passenger at present and it's nowhere near good enough.
Barry Williams
39 Posted 17/10/2017 at 14:10:09
Sean Patton – #38

I think a pre-season would have helped somewhat. He has known his Icelandic teammates for a while, knows the Icelandic system and his role in it. But he did not know his Everton teammates, his role in the team or the system. I would say he still doesn't. Who is that down to?

Saying that, pre-season doesn't seem to have helped the other new arrivals that much!

Dick Fearon
40 Posted 17/10/2017 at 15:02:49
The excuses keep coming and not just from Gylfi. No pre season, needs time to gel, new team mates to work with, wrong position and so on. Good players rise above such things and stamp their authority on the game.

Gylfi seems content with a bit part role. Good teams can 'carry' the odd slacker and help them look better than they really are. Over-rated non-performing Everton cannot afford that kind of luxury.

As a defensive midfielder or central midfielder or in any other position, Sigurdsson needs to show for the ball much more.

Robin Cannon
41 Posted 17/10/2017 at 15:03:33
"But it's small margins. I don't think we're a mile off getting results."

Yes, small margins. All we need to do is stop playing shit and with no plan, and start playing competently and with some kind of tactical sense. Small margins.

Keith Gleave
43 Posted 17/10/2017 at 16:05:01
Well Shakespeare has gone at Leicester, maybe he can share the taxi fare with Koeman.
Len Hawkins
44 Posted 17/10/2017 at 16:12:36
Keith, did it say "Shakespeare Bard at Leicester"?
Tony Marsh
45 Posted 17/10/2017 at 16:12:40
Keith, do you reckon Ron will pay the cab fare for him and Shakey ? I don't think the former Leicester manager will quite be on the £6 million a year our Ron earns.

Easy to pay off a manager on sensible money. Pay him 3 times the going rate then sacking him becomes a nightmare. That's the position we are in, IMHO.

Brent Stephens
46 Posted 17/10/2017 at 16:23:10
Len, very good!

But we still have our own comedy of errors. Not as I like it.

Lawrence Green
47 Posted 17/10/2017 at 16:30:53
Another blow to our chances of picking up three points on the road with the news that Leicester City sacked Shakespeare. No doubt they'll be a tougher proposition when they face Everton in their first home match under a new manager.
Jay Harris
48 Posted 17/10/2017 at 16:33:59
What we really need is midfield runners not Schneiderlin, Rooney and Sigurdsson all in the same team slowing the pace and passing back all the time,

Vlasic, Tom Davies and Calvert-Lewin up front for now and for gods sake can we please play a proper right-back instead of Holgate?

The next two games will be a watershed for the club and the manager.

Tony Everan
49 Posted 17/10/2017 at 16:47:44
Cue a million puns in tomorrow's papers!

Sacked before a winter of discontent?

Lee Brownlie
50 Posted 17/10/2017 at 17:00:11
My two penneth:

As discussed and posted, management are clearly not doing their job effectively, maybe especially in motivation, ergo our players are quickly losing confidence (and so not doing their job effectively!)

I believe we really need to 'go for it' in a few games and see what happens (its a fickle thing this 'top-level' football lark and confidence is key, even if it comes initially through taking a few chances!)

Note: Whilst Roberto did actually give this a go we were so full of players not up for it that it could only backfire (as it did!). I believe this team of blues are, individually as well as collectively, wishing to get such license!!

(Or maybe I'm just craving some excitement for a change!!)

Mark Morrissey
51 Posted 17/10/2017 at 17:13:46
Bollocks. I get in and I hear another Premier League manager has been sacked. I was ecstatic, it has to be!!! but no; alas, poor Marky
– it's not to be.

I expect them to go for Ancelotti or Mancini and move up the table. I'd like to see Rafa tapped up. He's a man that would be a perfect fit for us and it would annoy the neighbours no end. Trust me, he'd be a great fit for us and whilst the Toon are in turmoil we should snap him up.

Sack Koeman and sack him now.

Bob Skelton
52 Posted 17/10/2017 at 17:20:24
Why can Leicester do the correct thing and we can't!!
Mike Gaynes
53 Posted 17/10/2017 at 17:22:23
Off-topic, U-17 World Cup Round of 16... England-Japan still 0-0 in the final minute of time added on. Everton's Lewis Gibson an unused substitute for England. Winner faces the US (featuring George Weah's son) in the quarterfinals.
Mike Gaynes
55 Posted 17/10/2017 at 17:34:59
England through on pens. They will play the USA on Saturday.
James Ebden
56 Posted 17/10/2017 at 17:37:58
As much as I'd like Ancelotti, he won't touch us with a barge pole. We are not up to the level he wants on his CV.

Mancini would be good. Or Benitez. As much as people will hate him for his Liverpool connections, the guy gets teams winning.

Tuchel still available, but not on the list?

Christian Watson
57 Posted 17/10/2017 at 17:50:19
Seems like Leicester have greater ambition than us.
Eddie Dunn
58 Posted 17/10/2017 at 17:58:07
Gylfi is a class act and will come good, but as others have stated he needs movement around him, targets to hit. We are too static and need to start games at a high tempo – the display at Brighton was like a training session until they scored.
James Hughes
59 Posted 17/10/2017 at 18:12:12
The only thing Koeman has been right about so far this season, is that we are far too nice as a team.

The penalty was a nasty straight arm into Dominic. When he had a go at Bruno there was zero support from team-mates. I am not advocating a brawl, just some support for a team mate.

Drew O'Neall
60 Posted 17/10/2017 at 18:38:48
Phil Sammon – The problem isn't him being wide left or central or whatever v it's that he has nobody making runs for him. Him, Rooney, Davies, Klaassen, Schneiderlin, Gueye... all suffering the same problems. Swap a couple of them for players who stretch the pitch and find space and I'm sure we'll see improvement.

Phil – while I agree with your analysis, you have to say Rooney, when played up front, particularly alone, should be expected to stretch the pitch. He's played enough togger, at a high enough level and in that position too, to know the role.

If he's coming short to join in, he is either being selfish or doesn't understand what is needed from him, pace/height or not.

John Pierce
61 Posted 17/10/2017 at 18:43:13
Potential replacement managers have to be currently doing the business or rapidly in the ascendancy, with hunger in abundance. Mancini, Benitez & Pelligrini are not those guys. Good records for sure but they have peaked and are on the downward roll. Still very good but not what Everton need.

I would be tempted with Tuchel but not convinced, Wagner at Huddersfield or Silva at Watford. They have hunger and shown an ability to impact things quickly. Hunger is the key factor, and actually there's a nice parallel with the players we've bought this year.

The three players I feel have shown their hand amidst the malaise are Pickford, Rooney and Vlasic. All three supremely confident in their own ability and have adapted to their new side.

Vlasic in particular has put Sandro & Klaassen, and the notion foreign players need time to adapt, to shame. I will concede both need a more graded introduction but the hunger this lad shows in comparison is reflected in his performances.

This circles back to the manager: ambitious, yes, but not hungry enough to do that with Everton. And that is the key ingredient which is missing in both Koeman and his players. As we dither, options will inevitably dwindle.

Dermot Byrne
63 Posted 17/10/2017 at 19:13:20
Next game will be fun. This club is like a bad tooth you cannot stop poking with your tongue.

Still, like most fans, I still look forward to every time we play... until we kick off and Baines cuts back!

Insanity. Same action hoping for different outcome etc. But the way it is with me and will always be I guess.

Thankfully there are smarter and more focused fans who can spend the time and energy trying to work out and debate what is wrong (though rarely right when we have a good spell).

After loads of research, I think there may be a problem with the manager's ability, leading to potentially good players playing poorly and with no drive, the influence of a Chairman who helped and now clings to power, a new owner who may not be able to fund our dreams, and a fanbase that has lost their own confidence.

But hey, that must be too simple a summary.

Hey ho... still looking forward to the game!

COYB!

Ray Smith
64 Posted 17/10/2017 at 19:16:37
Jay (#48),

You can see it, I can see it, you can't play Rooney and Sigurdsson in the same team!

Rooney slows everything down, stifling Sigurdsson's creativity, and we won't see the best of him until he is Rooney free.

Kim Vivian
65 Posted 17/10/2017 at 19:33:57
I, for one, would prefer to see a 'turnaround' starting on Thursday and avoid the taxi for a couple of months to see how it pans out, but if the shit stays shit for the next ten days then the axe must fall.

But hypothetically here – If (big if) we were to win on Thursday, beat Arsenal, put on a good show against Chelsea, beat Leicester and say get a draw at Lyon in a couple of weeks would the clamour die down? Or has the damage been done?

Jay Harris
66 Posted 17/10/2017 at 19:42:38
It's not just Rooney, Ray, it is all the players with no pace – and, because of that, they don't make runs and their first instinct is to knock it back safety first.

We have had the same issue before Koeman got here but then it was tippy tappy between the centre-backs and the keeper.

Too many players haven't got the legs to get up and get back.Man Utd are no fools. If they thought Schneiderlin, Rooney., Cleverley, or Neville were any good, they would not have let them come to us.

We need Tom Davies and Vlasic in this team – and also I would venture Mirallas.

Tony Everan
67 Posted 17/10/2017 at 19:49:45
John (#61)

Valid point! Vlasic adapting well and taking the bull by the horns – the young lad is making Sandro and Klaassen look like frightened lambs. It's time they grew a pair of balls and did something with the one on the pitch too.

I'm not slagging them off, just want them to man up and start producing what I believe they're capable of.

Christy Ring
68 Posted 17/10/2017 at 19:53:22
I never wanted Sigurdsson, and we didn't need him, especially for £45m. His game last season was providing the ammunition for Llorente.

Koeman not buying a No 9 has defined our season, and he should be sacked now. If he goes, maybe Barkley will have a change of heart; a better player with a lot more pace.

Tony Marsh
69 Posted 17/10/2017 at 19:54:47
Kim @ 65

Lyon are currently 2 points off Monaco in Ligue 1. Last Friday Lyon beat Monaco 3-2 – could easily of been more. Lyon have Memphis Depay and Mariano up front and the free scoring Fekir in midfield. They are awesome going forward and battle hardened from being in Champions League every season.

Forget what fans on here said about this being an easy group. We will get murdered on Thursday. I have been watching both Lyon and Atalanta since we drew them. Both teams are light years ahead of Everton.

George Cumiskey
70 Posted 17/10/2017 at 19:56:43
Can anyone tell me what playing well as a group actually means?

And the other old chestnut it's all about fine margins, I feel a bit sorry for the players when they are continually trotted out to toe the party line, and they know that we all know it's Bullshit Bill's script.

Just one pun before I go: Alas, poor Craig... I knew thee well! Get it?

Barry Thompson
71 Posted 17/10/2017 at 20:14:36
"Lyon are currently 2 points off Monaco in Ligue 1. Last Friday, Lyon beat Monaco 3-2 – could easily of been more. Lyon have Memphis Depay and Mariano up front and the free scoring Fekir in midfield. They are awesome going forward and battle hardened from being in Champions League every season."

Yeah, but apart from that Tony, what else have we got to fear?

Paul Kossoff
72 Posted 17/10/2017 at 20:16:36
Off topic? I've just watched the Everton Show from last Friday – absolute pure cringe worthy ignore the obvious media tow the line garbage!

20+ minutes of how Leon Osman used to be the Joker at Finch Farm, Schnierderlin on his first car, job section, back to Finch Farm, back to Snods talking about having fun with the staff at...? Finch Farm, then on to? Finch Farm is still improving!

Mentioned for two minutes the Under-23 side and how they are hovering or are in the first team! Really, not being released then, or sold or ignored for Ronnie's favourites.

Praised Shaun Duffy who was sold for pennies.

Not one word about the crisis we are in... or the real joker, Ronald Koeman.

Paul Kossoff
73 Posted 17/10/2017 at 20:20:47
George (#70), Rudyard Kipling, John Keats, Geoffrey Chaucer? nope? I give up! 😥😥😥
Tony Marsh
74 Posted 17/10/2017 at 20:22:17
Barry @71

Not much to fear, mate? Lyon this season in French league reads: P9 W4 D4 L1. Battered Champions Monaco last week. Not sure if our current manager and paceless plodders can live with this outfit, mate.

To think, in August, fans on here were saying it's an easy group...

George Cumiskey
75 Posted 17/10/2017 at 20:25:02
Okay, Paul @73, I won't go into the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune... enough is enough.
Paul Kossoff
76 Posted 17/10/2017 at 20:25:56
George (#73), Yorick's! 😁
David Barks
77 Posted 17/10/2017 at 20:28:51
All I know is I'm sitting here in disgust that Spurs are beating Real Madrid, in Madrid, and it was only a few years ago that we were neck and neck with them. I remember they were another club people used to love to mock for sacking their managers quickly, in a defense for us to stick with Moyes.

Well, look where not accepting mediocrity has gotten them. New stadium? Being built. They have to compete in London against Chelsea and Arsenal, and they don't pay excessive wages. Now they're in the Champions League year after year, while we are pure shite.

Martin Mason
78 Posted 17/10/2017 at 20:37:20
David, Spurs aren't Everton. Why do you demand and expect success from a club based on what happens at another in completely different circumstances from Everton? Spurs have "accepted mediocrity" (what a stupid statement) for far longer than us. For years, they sacked manager after manager and didn't improve.
Anthony Hughes
79 Posted 17/10/2017 at 20:44:58
Spurs have been moving forward as a club due to an ambitious board. We have stagnated due to an attitude of a board that for too long accepts mediocrity. Moshiri's comments last week about not expecting to win certain matches summed the whole shit-show up.
John Pierce
80 Posted 17/10/2017 at 20:46:14
When your team has no pace, then there are ways to mitigate and adapt. The players aren't slow per se – just not as quick as others teams. So the clue is ball pace, tempo and intensity of play.

So I believe that Sigurdsson & Rooney can play together in a high tempo high pressing team. It is unlikely to happen under Koeman but the right manager can blend those players I have no doubt.

I've long called Koeman's tactics ‘defensive shithousery' and it truly is sad when our once proud club go to Brighton not to get beat. He is a shithouse, of that I have no doubt; I just wish he was someone else's problem. *Sigh*.

David Barks
83 Posted 17/10/2017 at 20:50:38
Martin,

Are you seriously not able to comprehend that you always compare yourself, whether a business or in sport, against those you compete against? Different circumstances? We both play in the Premier League last time I checked.

They were in a very similar position to us throughout much of Moyes' time here. It was usually between us and them as "best of the rest", finishing 5th, 6th, 7th. That was never good enough for them. They kept demanding more, while we sang the praises of being just outside the Top 4.

That demand to always keep pushing for more success has resulted in them actually moving forward, while we, as anyone who is simply happy to exist in the status quo, continue to move backward. Because the problem with accepting the status quo and not demanding improvement year on year is, that when in a competition, those around you might not be so accepting. And now they nearly won the league, and are now competing in the Champions League with regularity.

How can you not see that a football club is obviously compared to other clubs is beyond me. Christ, that's the purpose of the bloody Premier League table!! Or did you think they keep track of points just for the hell of it?

Paul A Smith
84 Posted 17/10/2017 at 21:32:51
David Barks, you're spot-on. Not so many years back, we were better than them. Easily.

Their owners didn't shit themselves when Madrid came for Bale though and got the price they should have got.

Imagine if he'd gone there this summer!

Peter Fearon
85 Posted 17/10/2017 at 21:39:42
A manager who worked a miracle to bring Leicester City the title was fired and Craig Shakespeare took over. Four months after being given a 3-year contract, with less than a quarter of the season gone, he is fired following a very determined performance in a local derby netting a crucial point.

And there are knowledgable Evertonians who want US to follow THAT example? Please! Get real! It is a sign of confusion and desperation. Sometimes the bravest course is to stay the course. Keep Calm and Carry On.

Colin Glassar
86 Posted 17/10/2017 at 21:50:40
David (#77), I think it could take eons before we can go toe to toe with Real Madrid.
James Stewart
87 Posted 17/10/2017 at 21:57:25
After watching the game tonight, Spurs and even Napoli in defeat almost play a different sport to us. The organisation, pace, pressing and passing is incredible. We should be aspiring to this kind of Football.

Instead, we are served up the same old primitive kick and rush, week after week, and we are not even effective at that. I can barely bring myself to watch us anymore. We will get a hiding on Thursday of that you can be sure. Everything about our club disgusts me.

Oh and Peter, in case you hadn't noticed, the course we are on is relegation.

Anthony Hughes
88 Posted 17/10/2017 at 22:10:49
Keep calm and carry on? With what? Dire performances, repeated poor team selection, shithouse tactics? We're going nowhere under this manager.
Eric Paul
90 Posted 17/10/2017 at 22:15:23
"Keep calm and carry on"

Do you really suggest we accept this slow, bland, boring and self-destructive style of shite while we nosedive into relegation with a stiff upper lip???

Sack him and keep sacking if need be till it comes good. How many managers have Spurs sacked in the years since we employed David Moyes?

Dick Fearon
91 Posted 17/10/2017 at 22:17:20
David @83 and Martin @78,

Things are moving forward in only this manner. Many years ago, when I first registered with ToffeeWeb, there was an unofficial embargo on comparing our lack of progress with that of other clubs particularly regarding our charming neighbours. The merest suggestion that they might be doing things better than us was jumped on by one and all posters.

Jack Convery
92 Posted 17/10/2017 at 22:24:53
Would you ask Leonardo to paint the Mona Lisa with Dulux – No of course you wouldn't. The Iceland coach built his team around Sigurdsson and has now qualified for two tournaments in a row.

Koeman should play him behind a forward, Niasse, Calvert-Lewin or Sandro, with Calvert-Lewin my pick. Use Rooney and Niasse as impact subs for the next couple of games.

Andy Crooks
93 Posted 17/10/2017 at 22:37:19
Tony, are Lyon your second team? You seem pretty enthused by the thumping you hope they will give us.
Tony Marsh
94 Posted 17/10/2017 at 22:44:29
No Andy, Lyon are not, but if getting tonked means Koeman going, then so be it. We are already out of the Europa League if we are honest. What chance of getting out of the group and winning it?

You must be having a laugh, mate, if you think we are worthy of staying in this completion with Koeman in charge.

Sooner we are out of it the better. I said it from Day One.

Tom Bowers
95 Posted 17/10/2017 at 23:10:07
The League Cup and Europa League are of little consequence right now with Premier League results being as bad as they are.

With Leicester sacking their manager now, what price Koeman being next after the next 3 games or less for Everton?

There was nothing clever about the result at Brighton after another poor performance. I think Koeman has had his chance and things look the same as when the season started. There is absolutely no indication that he is beginning to turn things around and that's the scary part.

Eddie Dunn
96 Posted 17/10/2017 at 23:15:32
Peter Fearon, wake up and smell the coffee... we are playing walking football. The players are capable of much more and this management team is failing to get the best out of a decent squad. The longer we procrastinate, the more likely we are to get sucked in to the relegation zone.

Our away form was terrible last season, and now our home form is also poor. You can wait for things to suddenly click into place but Lyon will expose our positional misfits and sloth-like progress round the park.

I hope we can pull something out for the fans, perhaps Lady Luck will smile on us and we will get the breaks, but I won't be watching it. I will be playing 5-a-side, and I think this is the sensible decision.

John Pierce
97 Posted 17/10/2017 at 23:28:38
Peter,

Brave? Stoical and one's head in the sand more like. Everton have nearly always shown forbearance to their managers. To sack one summarily in relative terms is not foolhardy.

Judge the situation by what it is. Terminal. And judge it by the standards Everton set – not Spurs or Leicester.

We invested heavily in a manager therefore by inference an expectation of good football and improvement in all competitions. Additionally we have let the manager change the playing squad almost to a man.

Yet he has barely moved the needle, only flickering to shift between January and March of last season.

You maybe right, but the evidence suggests not. Bravery and stupidity are sides of the same coin. Peter, don't go down with ship.

Stephen Davies
98 Posted 17/10/2017 at 23:33:58
Pep, Conte, Benitez & Pochettino have all improved the way their teams play and have influenced their style of play. Thats what a good coach does and results can be clearly seen.

What coaching goes on at the moment and what improvements are being made?

Pete Clarke
99 Posted 17/10/2017 at 23:38:17
We also invested in a manager for a '3-year project'. Sorry, but he is not Guardiola so why take such a risk if he's only here for a short term?

We're gonna have to bite the bullet and just keep guessing with managers but this current one needs the boot for the abject football on show, never mind the piss-poor results.

Tony Everan
100 Posted 17/10/2017 at 23:44:36
Tom,

I agree the League Cup and Europa League are luxuries to be indulged when you are firmly in the top half of the Premier League. Moshiri will be paying little attention to the cup results.

The Premier League status is everything. If results don't improve over the next 2 or 3 games, he will be gone. A heavy defeat by Arsenal maybe will finish him.

However, this is Everton; anything is possible. Even Ronald turning it around.

“It's now or never.”

Gordon Crawford
101 Posted 17/10/2017 at 23:47:32
We are crap and that's down to the manager and the board. There are some very good players at the club, but they are being managed badly. We are slowly being poisoned from the inside and it needs to stop.

Spurs and that shower across the park have a winning mentality that runs through their respective clubs, we have crap that runs through ours.

Ernie Baywood
102 Posted 18/10/2017 at 01:50:17
I can't understand why people get so fired up about comments made by players and managers. They're just press releases and don't actually mean anything.

What we can see on the pitch is the important thing. The players are clearly frustrated, out of ideas within minutes of each game, struggling for any kind of form. The manager can't figure out his best team but is rigidly sticking to his formation regardless of the players available.

No-one will say that publicly. So why listen to what they do say?

Rick Tarleton
103 Posted 18/10/2017 at 11:09:56
This is one of those utterly crap PR interviews/statements put out that mean absolutely nothing. Logically it is stating up to now we weren't all that determined about winning. If that is true... well it doesn't need spelling out.

It also suggests that determination is all that matters which is true if there are other teams that are equally not bothered about winning out there. Sheer rubbish.

What I'd like to see is an interview in which a top player says we've had a meeting with the manager and told him his tactics are utterly wrong for us as a team and we need to look at these possibilities.

It won't happen, but that would be a meaningful interview instead of this utter tripe.

Terry McLavey
104 Posted 18/10/2017 at 12:56:13
It's always "the next game".... the only problem is, the "next game" is usually like "the last game"!
Ernie Baywood
105 Posted 19/10/2017 at 03:13:05
I'm an eternal optimist, Terry. I always think there's a chance that we could suddenly 'click' and put in a top performance.

This team has beaten it out of me. I fully expect the next game to be shite and can't imagine how it could be any better.

I mean, even on the off chance he suddenly changes approach and goes with width, attacking intent, tempo, fewer holding midfielders... we haven't played like that all season. It's not going to be great the first time you try it – that's what pre-season was for.

Geoff Evans
106 Posted 19/10/2017 at 08:20:40
Words aplenty, actions non-existent.

Don't tell me, show me!
Alasdair Mackay
107 Posted 19/10/2017 at 10:36:08
Rick (#103),

The problem is that all the players are scared of him. They have seen how certain individuals have been shut out and they are all scared.

Koeman is a classroom bully who has had it easy all his life because of his god-given talent for playing football. He has no people skills or motivational skills and no interest in developing any. You only have to look at how uninterested he looks in his press conferences for that.

The fact that 85% of Evertonians and at least half the British media can see that he is tactically inept is irrelevant to him, because the only person whose opinion he values is his own.

Pride comes before a fall – although in Koeman's case he has a £12 million cushion to soften the landing!

Ernie Baywood
108 Posted 19/10/2017 at 11:02:14
I listened to an interesting piece by Simon Kuper, a respected writer on Dutch football. He was of the view that the Dutch have resisted change and missed the tactical and scientific advances in football. He reckons Dutch football has become a closed shop for their greats, stifling talent and new ideas.

Koeman seems to match that idea. What has he actually done to earn his reputation?

Terry McLavey
109 Posted 19/10/2017 at 11:08:59
Ernie, I know what you mean, I think we have good players as I don't think anyone can make it as a professional footballer unless they have skills and talent; it is a hard business albeit very well rewarded.

The problem is if they are managed badly – this is where things go wrong. I think we are witnessing again as with our last manager things going drastically wrong without anything being done to resolve the problem.

I mentioned in a previous post when Unsey took over after Martinez was sacked it was like a new team. I'm sure these players would flourish under different guidance.

Rudi Coote
110 Posted 19/10/2017 at 15:25:46
We should take bets on who will be the next player to insult our intelligence.

Actions – not words!!!

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.