Youngster Beni Baningime makes his Everton debut in the absence of Idrissa Gueye and Morgan Schneiderlin
Everton were eliminated from the Carabao Cup at the hands of Chelsea but there was plenty of encouragement to take from a spirited second-half performance in which the Toffees dominated at Stamford Bridge.
Everton were understandably tentative in the first period but their strategy of containment came very close to succeeding in getting them to the interval on level terms. A lapse in marking for a Chelsea corner allowed Antonio Rudiger to put the home side ahead, though, making caretaker boss David Unsworth's task that much harder.
His side grew in stature, confidence and threat after half-time, however, and but for Willy Caballero, who made some vital saves in the Chelsea goal while also watching Ademola Lookman strike his crossbar, might have at least forced extra time.
Unsworth made a big decision with his first starting XI by naming rising Under-23s star Beni Baningime in midfield in place of the injured Morgan Schneiderlin who was a late scratch from the line-up, presumably due to a recurrence of the injury that kept him out of the weekend defeat to Arsenal.
That gave 19-year-old Baningime, who has been compared to the likes of N'Golo Kanté, the chance to impress.
James McCarthy returned to the team for his first appearance of the season, replacing the suspended Idrissa Gueye. Gueye missed tonight's game after picking up two yellow cards in the 5-2 defeat to Arsenal at the weekend.
Unsworth's selection also offered Aaron Lennon the opportunity to stake his claim after falling out of favour with Ronald Koeman but the chosen formation didn't have room for Dominic Calvert-Lewin or record-signing Gylfi Sigurdsson, both of whom are on the bench.
Nikola Vlasic, one of the brightest spots of Koeman's tenure this season, wasn't in the squad after picking up an injury against Arsenal. He underwent an x-ray on Sunday that revealed no damage but he likely sustained bruising that will benefit from the rest.
Also missing were two Koeman acquisitions in the form of Maarten Stekelenburg, overlooked in favour of Joel Robles, and Cuco Martina, as well as Davy Klaassen and Sandro Ramirez.
The two sides began in fairly even fashion, Rooney seeing the first opening in the fourth minute but he didn't do anything with it.
Chelsea began to assert themselves with about 10 minutes gone but the Blues were holding a disciplined back line and they too settled, winning the first corner of the contest in the 22nd minute.
The home side earned a corner of their own with 25 minutes gone when Jagielka could only scuff a cross behind and when the set-piece was taken short and a cross swung in, Rudiger found himself unmarked at the back post where he looped a header over Pickford.
A minute later, Zappacosta was cynically blocked off by Williams who picked up another yellow card for his trouble but Willian's free kick was cleared.
While Everton battled to carve out opportunities at one end, with Rooney isolated and unable to hold the ball up effectively when he had it, Batshuayi held off his man to get a shot away at the other 10 minutes before the break but Pickford wasn't troubled.
A giveaway by Williams just inside the Chelsea half set up a counter-attacking chance for Antonio Conte's side but Zappacosta lashed his shot into the side-netting with the visiting defence scrambling to get back.
No changes were made by either side at the break, but Mirallas seemed to have a wide brief to roam and support Rooney. Davies was shown a yellow card for one foul too many early in the second period and McCarthy followed him into the book shortly afterwards for a high boot on Kenedy.
The Blues carved out their best move of the match so far after 53 minutes when Baningime thundered into a tackle on Ampadu, the ball broke to Rooney but Kenny arriving on the overlap made a mess of the final shot, slicing well wide of goal.
Everton better was to follow a minute or so later when Kenny crossed, Mirallas cushioned a header to Rooney but he was foiled at point-blank range by Caballero.
The Chelsea keeper almost made a catastrophic error, though, passing the ball straight to Lennon but his touch was heavy and Caballero charged him down.
Another Everton corner arrived in the 59th minute but a lack of height meant they couldn't make it count. They stayed on the offensive, though, and Mirallas whipped a ball in that Lennon almost turned in, a defender getting a vital touch to guide it over the bar.
Chelsea countered quickly from the resulting corner and Jagielka ended up in the book when he scythed down Musonda.
Cesc Fabregas's introduction for Drinkwater with a little more than an hour gone gave Chelsea a more daunting look and Unsworth responded by bringing McCarthy off and throwing Calvert-Lewin into the fray.
And the young striker won a quick corner, again down the Everton left but Williams couldn't get enough on his header. Rudiger, meanwhile, took umbrage at Calvert-Lewin's challenge, hacked down Mirallas and picked up a booking of his own.
From that free kick, Jagielka looked to have flicked Baines's ball home but Caballero was there to push it away and the Argentine repeated the feat seconds later to parry Mirallas's shot away as it searched out the bottom corner.
With 17 minutes to go, Lennon made way for Lookman came within inches of finishing a patient probing Everton move but fired into the side-netting off Davies's pass.
Near calamity followed, though, at the other end. Rooney sold the defence short with a poor backpass, Batshuayi toed it past Pickford but Jagielka recovered brilliantly to hold the Belgian off and slide the ball behind.
Everton remained unbowed, however, and Lookman went even closer than before, grazing the crossbar with an excellent left-footed shot after cutting in from the right.
Chelsea effectively killed the tie in stoppage time when Willian exchanged passes with Fabregas from another short corner and the Brazilian raked a shot off the far post and into Pickford's net.
Determined work by Niasse allowed Calvert-Lewin to bundle in seconds later to halve the deficit but Unsworth and his side had run out of time.
Full details: ToffeeWeb Match Page
Reader Comments (333)
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1 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:00:45
2 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:01:45
3 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:02:59
Kenny Williams Jagielka Baines
Lennon Davies Mirallas
It certainly has width.
4 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:03:08
5 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:03:13
Win or lose, I expect us to give them a game and show some much needed passion.
Good luck Rhino, we're all behind you.
6 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:04:14
7 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:06:12
8 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:07:05
Bill beat me too it!
9 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:07:34
10 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:07:39
12 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:18:50
Come on Blue Boys!!
13 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:21:05
14 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:21:38
Thats the best we can muster at the present time until January or until Coleman,Bolasie,Barkley and Mori walk back into the team imo.Its all about opinions.
15 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:25:22
16 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:27:08
Hope McCarthy doesn't get injured again, he's only just started training hasn't he, I'm not sure if that's right though?
Difficult decision for David who to play tonight, he obviously wants to make a good start but the Prem. has to be the priority.
So I doubt this is his perceived best starting team and squad.
That's not counting the players who are injured.
17 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:27:51
18 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:28:50
20 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:34:42
22 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:35:53
23 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:39:47
24 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:45:29
25 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:46:36
Is this his first match for the senior side this season??
26 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:49:31
27 Posted 25/10/2017 at 19:52:25
28 Posted 25/10/2017 at 20:02:45
29 Posted 25/10/2017 at 20:35:37
It was nice to see a proper shape for once. Players had easy to identify roles and we seemed to get better as the game went on. We need better more precise passing though. Hopefully we can grow into the game. Nice to see a manager with passion on the touchline and trying to influence what was on the pitch.
30 Posted 25/10/2017 at 20:36:09
31 Posted 25/10/2017 at 20:39:07
Effort has been good but the same problem in that it's hard to see where the goals are going to come from.
32 Posted 25/10/2017 at 20:40:32
How cool and composed on the ball does Baningime look? He seems to always have plenty of time, even when seemingly hemmed in on all sides. Just so neat and tidy in everything he does, and seemingly never gives the ball away. Good peripheral vision. Always aware of his and others position on the field. Impressive.
The goal too easily given up. Not alert to a short corner routine and the scorer peeling off the back off Williams for an unchallenged header.
But better signs from the side than they have been offering in recent weeks.
Now, what have you got for the second half Davie boy?
35 Posted 25/10/2017 at 20:45:48
36 Posted 25/10/2017 at 20:47:39
37 Posted 25/10/2017 at 20:50:03
Nobody in the back 4 big & strong enough with any spring to get off the ground and head a ball.
Williams is the worst central defender in the premier league - sadly, Jags is little better - doubt if Keane would have made a difference.
And no striker in the team!
Us needing to re-build in the championship is a serious possibility.
38 Posted 25/10/2017 at 20:53:33
39 Posted 25/10/2017 at 20:58:58
40 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:02:51
41 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:13:08
42 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:24:17
43 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:31:40
44 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:34:16
45 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:40:37
Nice one Unsworth, you're making a difference already. Remember folks, there's no magic wand. You can't turn an oil tanker on a six-pence.
That's 3 goals in the last two games, so we can score. The Defence looked more solid, but we still need everything better. I think we can.
46 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:41:52
47 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:42:29
48 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:43:22
Lots of positives, much to put right but its a step forward.
Usually when Everton lose I am unhappy but tonight I can see some little shoots of recovery.
If only we had a centre forward,doh
50 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:44:25
Team setup was spot on. Wasn't exactly the team I would have picked but it was functional and put players in their best positions. I wasn't sure if we had the players to be setup to be 'hard to beat'. The first half showed we can be. Davies and McCarthy were tireless and Beni played the holding role beautifully.
Second half we opened up and dominated. Wide players scared them and DCL gave us more of a focal point up front. That side can be exciting to watch!
So unlucky to lose that but highlights the need for a goal scorer. Can't complain about the start by Unsworth though.
51 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:45:43
Davies and the new lad Benni the standouts but Lennon and McCarthy tried hard and Mirallas had a better second half.. at least there was some endeavour.. Rooney looks an absolutely spent force and if he is he should offer to walk away from his contract.
52 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:46:00
Rooney would be top of the list if I thought uncle Bill would let him go.
54 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:48:00
But I'm not feeling forlorn or despondent as I have for pretty much every game this season.
Unsworth's selection was innovative. It was bold. We were clearly the better side in the 2nd half and their keeper was their saviour.
Their 2nd goal at the end you have to doff your cap to. Well crafted, a goal of high quality. Our goal created by the persistence and nuisance value Niasse brings to the position and deft feet by DC-L with the finish.
Baningime for me was head and shoulders our best player on the park, but more than a few played well.
And who wooda thunk it? Double up on players to attack down both flanks (Kenny with Lennon/Lookman, Baines with Mirallas) and - surprise! surprise! - it puts the opposition on the back foot, pulls players out of position and gives you a chance to actually deliver the ball into the penalty area to create chances. And create them we did.
A honourable defeat and - yes - of course we need wins. But this Blue for one is a helluva lot more cheerful about my team, my club, than I have been all season.
55 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:49:00
56 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:49:15
I'm sorry if that sounds negative but our second-half performance makes it all the more infuriating that we have neutered ourselves this season in attack.
57 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:49:53
58 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:51:33
59 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:53:44
60 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:54:00
That looked like a great effort from our lads. As far as I could see on the TV, real positives in terms of Baningime, Davies, McCarthy, Pickford. Only Leighton had a truly poor game. 'Bang 'em in Benny' was absolutely superb. They need to follow it up on Sunday now, but they were unlucky to lose tonight.
61 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:54:31
Better energy, better shape, better to watch, and better things to look forward to. Niasse or Calvert Lewis, have got to play centre forward, and Baines needs someone as disciplined as Lennon, to help get his game back onside.
Ive said it before but Id play Rooney, out there because hes still one of the cleverest players around but he doesnt have the physicality to lead the line anymore.
And what about that little Benny kid, first time Ive ever saw him play, but isnt it great watching someone who wants to do just that? Hes calm, hes quick across the ground, and hes full,of energy.
62 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:57:24
63 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:58:02
Feel a lot more optimistic after that.
64 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:58:08
65 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:58:17
66 Posted 25/10/2017 at 21:59:47
Tough away trip on Sunday now, especially with Leicester having a new manager in position. We need to regroup as we still don't have a striker of note, and somehow pick up a few points between now and January. Whoever let that particular scenario unfold over a period of months should hang their heads in shame, they've pissed all over our season before it started.
At least it looks like the players understood where they needed to be on the pitch, which is a massive improvement on the last fella in charge.
Still concerned we've spent £150m this summer to go backwards.
67 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:00:08
68 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:01:01
70 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:02:44
Liked that new kid with the crazy hair.
Lookman needs to start starting games.
Best we played all season.
72 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:03:42
That said, his subs were good. Should have got something from the game but for poor finishing. Rooney, Lennon, Mirallas I'm looking at you!
I still don't think Unsworth is the answer but it was certainly an improvement on recent performances. That is really saying much though. Leicester will tell us a lot more.
73 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:04:31
Beningime is used to Unsy's formations & it showed. Kenny got better the longer the game went on. McCarthy's return was very welcome. Even Jags was marking players instead of standing in free space. Much better system.
Roll on Sunday.
74 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:08:25
On a side note, what horrible bunch of snides Chelsea are, feigning injury, trying to get young lads sent off and the like, lamentable.
And the biggest sign for me was that Pickford wasn't our busiest player!
Niasse, how many goals and assists compared to minutes played? It has to be right up there with the best in the league!
75 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:08:28
Mr. Moshiri, take your time before spending your hard earned on a project manager. Evertonians don't want a project. Passion, pride and commitment. Get it?
76 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:10:11
Lukaku has 3 more league goals than Rooney, one is seen as the best striker ever in the history of everything now he plays for urinals and one is seen as a shot fighter now he plays for EVERTON
We shall see in may
77 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:10:20
78 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:10:30
79 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:11:36
Rooney has scored some goals and is still capable of isolated brilliance but his all-round contributions and role in the team are serious ongoing problems which any new manager must address. For so long as he is a default selection, we will be unbalanced.
80 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:14:04
I am so relieved, if we keep this effort up we won't go far wrong.
81 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:14:08
Rooney is 3 league goals behind lukaku and if unsworth isn't the answer who is
82 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:14:11
Sorry we lost but not too disappointed, only for the fact that the main focus should be staying up, but a lot of us will take a lot of heart from tonight,
84 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:17:30
85 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:18:58
One game at a time but the basics looked much better and the players looked like they had more freedom?
Beni in the middle had a great game. His calmness was great to watch and although its one game he showed the regular 2 how to control the ball and move after a pass.
87 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:19:16
He faded playing up front on his own and the change could have come a bit sooner.
For all that we love seeing young players in the team, it's not reasonable to expect them to shoulder all the burden. Rooney is a very experienced player and, while experience may not appear to come to the fore, it's valuable. And who knows what will happen on the pitch that will require a wise head to get involved.
Again, whether you agree or not, you can surely at least see what Unsworth was doing?
88 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:20:11
I want him to be a success and get the job. He genuinely loves this club
89 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:22:48
As for Unsworth, I will repeat what I posted on other threads. No other club of our statue would give the job to someone who has never managed before. Spurs did it with Sherwood and Leicester with Shakespeare, both failures. If we truly have ambition to be in the top 6 we should make an appointment to match. Tuchel, Silva or Dyche.
90 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:24:12
Or will all the crocs come back into the team?
I for one would like to see the same line up (pretty much) kept for our next 3 matches.
91 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:24:18
The players looked better, and played with more intensity. Id be happy with that team again on Sunday. Considering Lennon, Mirallas and McCarthy havent had much game time, they put in a great shift. We pushed Chelsea all the way tonight, with Lookman hitting the bar, and Caballero blocking a Rooney shot. I must say also that Jags and Williams looked rock solid also - one last ditch challenge from Jags really was incredible.
Unsie appears to have got the players playing for him already. Long may it continue!
92 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:24:45
If it's "who is the man to lead us, long term, into the Champions League?" then he obviously doesn't have that pedigree.
If it's "who is the manager who can get us back to competing and get the club feeling positive again?" then his very tough first audition just went pretty well.
Possibly depends on your perspective (or maybe acceptance) of our current situation.
Those questions aren't necessarily mutually exclusive either.
93 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:24:59
Very Early days, but we have gone from showing no signs except frustration, to a team that looked like they were actually starting to enjoy there football tonight.
94 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:25:16
95 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:26:12
Start him now while the club is under pressure and every error will be highlighted by the same people on Barkleys case.
96 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:26:58
97 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:27:39
Yes they would.
Madrid did it with zidane.
Barce with Pep.
98 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:28:44
Liverpool appointed from within for donkeys years, and Barcelona have done also. Why cant Unsie be the right choice for us? He couldnt have done more at under 23 level, winning the league and beating all the under 23 teams in the land. He managed us for one game, which we won 3-0, he has also coached elsewhere.
He commands respect within the club, which is where it matters. Did you watch tonights game? It was like a ray of sunshine in what has been a disappointing season so far, none of the names you suggest could have got more out of the players tonight.
99 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:29:20
100 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:29:30
If he keeps flying in after getting a yellow it's going to end up red, and that could land us in deep doo doo.
102 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:33:46
103 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:35:47
Onwards and upwards.
104 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:36:13
105 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:38:21
The first half was tight with very few chances in it and poor marking at a set piece followed by a very good header for their header. We were tentative and still suffering Koemanitis I suspect.
Second half was a breath of fresh air, we pressed, we passed, we moved and we were comfortably the best team. With a touch more luck and composure we'd have scored 3 or 4.
Beni great both with and without the ball and Davies and McCarthy provided great energy with the former in particular getting forward to good effect. Kenny overlapped to great effect in the second half and showed what a proper full back with pace and energy can do.
Jags and Williams did ok though their distribution was poor.
Rooney was pretty mediocre I thought. He really struggled to hold the ball in the first half and though better in the second he just withdraws too much to play the lone striker role.
Pace, purpose, organization and some fight. More of that and I'm pretty confident we'll be heading up the table soon enough.
106 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:39:49
@98 Under 23 level is a different sport. I did watch the game yes. See my first post. I wouldn't call any game we lose a ray of sunshine but I take your point after recent results. I think appointing Unsworth would be a small club mentality thing to do, but if he gets it I will be 100% behind him. I don't think he has a cat in hell's chance though. Moshiri will want someone proven.
107 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:42:27
Confusing trying to find highlights sometimes.
I didnt think wed be quite good enough with tonights team, a bit small and first starts of the season for a couple of them. Unsy owes the players nothing and hope he continues to pick on what he sees. Id like to see Rooney deeper, hes our best passer.
108 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:45:16
Chelsea were ruffled second half, hence they brought the big guns on.
This is certainly progress and great to see youngsters getting a chance. More of the same required on Sunday.
109 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:48:47
It's a pity you didn't watch the game because Beni was outstanding.
Remembering that it was his first team debut, on the ground of the reigning league champions, he was coolness personified. Showed total composure on the ball in the most contested area on the pitch, in midfield.
Even when seemingly hemmed in on all sides, he always seemed to have plenty of time. Neat and tidy in all he does. It's a real surprise if - on the rare occasion - when he gives the ball away.
He showed good peripheral vision. Always aware of his and others position on the field. And as David Unsworth just said in his after match comments "he likes a tackle!"
Tom Davies could learn a lot from Beni on that front. Tom had some good moments in the game. His tackling - or rather, his forlorn attempts at tackling - were not among them and he deservedly picked up a yellow card for multiple missed tackles.
David Unsworth has just said: ""Morgan Schneiderlin was taken ill so I had no hesitation in playing Beni Baningime, he's been terrific for the U23s and that was some debut tonight. He likes a tackle!
"He's very humble and we're all proud of him tonight. You have to have the confidence to play young players, and I know them."
"Nobody likes losing games, I'm a bad loser but I have to say I'm proud of the performance, they were terrific.
"We are disappointed to lose, we think we had chances to get something from the game.
"We knew James McCarthy could only play for 60 minutes so we were always going to change things then. We limited Chelsea and then opened it up.
"We were camped in the Chelsea half, there is loads to work on."
I really like his last sentence: "there is loads to work on."
A man with a plan.
110 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:49:30
Yes Rooney is a concern his days as a CF have gone.
I wonder if Unsie will address this and perhaps use him in a more deeper role.
Sundays game will be a very interesting and I suspect the team will be different from tonights lstarting line up (DCL to start).
111 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:50:10
112 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:50:53
Time to come on board Usmanov before BPB finds the money to buy out Moshiri.
113 Posted 25/10/2017 at 22:53:29
115 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:01:44
What gave me comfort and hope is that Unsworth said after the game 'we have loads more work to do' That is refreshing and endearing to hear that from a manager knowing that they will work on the negatives of tonight and look to put them right in the next game, instead of churning out pure rabble.
116 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:05:48
Better second half, well structured subs and we got gack into the game. We still lost, not so good but it felt better.
Thats my sentimental side creeping in. Ill have a rewatch but the energy was good, and there was a formation and a plan.
A lot of ordinary players in that side delivered more than the sum of its parts. A team!
It feels less bleak and maybe weve just bounced off the bottom.
117 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:07:39
Chelsea were the better team in the first half, they looked bigger, stronger and better organised, but still only had one chance (which they scored). We struggled as we had no real presence up front.
But 2nd half was all Everton, and the young lads in particular did a great job. There is, indeed, a team in there, and Pickford, Kenny, Beni, Davies, Lookman and DCL can be the backbone of it.
120 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:09:43
Comments on here backing up the BBC feed as well - encouraging.
Although Rudiger was unmarked for the first goal you have to give him credit where it's due, that was a brilliant header falling backwards like that - their second was pure class so nothing could be done there either.
All in all I guess we can be happy with the improvement, if not the result.
122 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:12:17
at Chelsea in 90 mins and even when they put a shadow team out we can still only manage a consolation in injury time.
Why is it that we can never do what all those leading lights in the premier league, such as Watford,West Ham,Burnley and Palace can do by winning away to the top sides ? We have become a small club over time and now have easily pleased fanbase.
124 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:15:25
First half totally bereft of ideas, movement and confidence. Training session for Chelsea. Second half totally different team, playing with bite, pace and purpose, putting Chelsea under a lot of pressure. I guess Unsworth gave them a right bollocking at half time.
Highlights for me was a mature debut start from Beni in the middle. Looks lightweight but certainly got stuck in and was not afraid to look for the ball. Good touch and didnt seem phased at all. Davies gave a good stint and Lookman looked dangerous when he came on (why on earth RK didnt use him more is beyond me). Mirallas also put in a decent shift.
As for some of the others. I still have no idea what McCarthy brings to the team. Completely forgot he was playing for most of the game. Lennon also isnt up to scratch and Rooney isnt the answer for us up front.
Pickford also needs to sort out his kicking. The number of times the ball went out for a throw to his left was a joke. The Jagielka hoof was also regularly seen but I guess passing was never his thing.
Pleased with the second half and we really should have brought it back to 1.1. Created a couple of really decent chances.
In Mirallas and Lookman we have pace upfront amd wide and Vlasic also looks like he could be really good. Definitely a time to be a lot more optimistic than a week ago.
Onto the weekend. Next team sheet will be interesting.
125 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:17:54
A few games like that and hell be back to being the 7 or 8 our of 10 player he normally is, and with an energetic midfield of three of Davies / McCarthy / Gana / Beni / Barkley hell have a year or two left in him.
His intelligence at left back has been rarely seen in the game.
126 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:19:59
I am surprised at the paranoia shown by some on this web site. We have eight points after nine games and the talk of relegation is pure and absolute hysterical drivel. We have played more top flight seasons than any club anywhere in the world - just remember that and be absolutely proud of it. No other club's supporters in the world can say that.
127 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:20:56
Didn't take long, as you said!
128 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:23:05
129 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:23:11
I have a feeling Unsworth will do the job for us. He has had no time with the team. I love how bold he has been putting Baningime in. He could have easily gone very safe but no.
He knows the club top to bottom. I would say give him 2 - 3 weeks and see what happens. It sounds a short period but there are lots of games in that period.
Give him the job full time if the results and performances come along.
130 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:23:25
132 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:31:32
133 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:31:35
Not only but also at their home, I think the team played with more passion and purpose than we have seen for a long time. Even the last few games of last season were passionless turgid efforts.
I really and honestly think Unsy has done marvellously well, and should be congratulated on doing so.
I suppose the $64,000 question can it be carried on to the next league and Europa games, I certainly hope so.
There were, apart from the performance, some encouraging signs, the emergence of Beni for one, and the signs of players actually trying to play for each other.
Okay we didn't win but came very close.
134 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:31:46
I was at the game, dont know if you were but I testified what I saw and that was that Rooney looked a spent force.
It comes on quick and maybe Rooney was scraping what was left together based on the exuberance of returning to his boyhood club and perhaps the events of the last few weeks have taken the wings out of his sails.
Whatever it is, he should have been taken off 20 mins before his short backpass gave them a 1-on-1 to seal the game and he should be dropped until he can prove hes the best player in any of his positions.
135 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:33:31
Unsie has had 1 day to work with the team. Based on that, what we got tonight was praiseworthy indeed. That was still a good Chelsea team we faced, they brought on some big hitters second half too.
Compared to the rest of the season, there are ground for optimism in tonights performance. Its a fresh start for everyone, you should try it!
136 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:34:05
Jonjoe Kenny needs more help at right back, Beni and Tom looked sharp in the middle. Gana and Morgan take note. I wouldn't be rushing either back into the starting line-up.
DCL, Oumar and Lookman need to start ahead of Rooney, Siggy and Vlasiç. Do we have any central defenders to replace Williams and Jags?
It's such a shame we didn't sack Koeman straight after the Atalanta defeat. Who knows how different the season would be looking.
137 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:39:10
138 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:44:33
Despondents despair. Most of us can see some light in the distance.
139 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:44:49
I saw against Arsenal players that could not pass a simple 10 yard pass. Why is Barkley really wanting to leave?
I think he used Niasse as an example of his power and people had to toe his line. If I saw a work colleague being treated like that (at my age I would say something) but 30 years ago my transfer request would have gone.
Glad he has gone! Long time since I have written or said those words!
140 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:53:39
141 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:57:04
It appeared to me in hindsight, that Koeman gave up on his team's chances before a ball had been kicked, due to the difficult opening fixtures and the lack of a striker. That defeatism seeped into the squad and once the manager indicates he has little faith in the chances of his team, it doesn't take long for that to seep into performances and ultimately results.
Unsworth may not be fortunate enough to get the job full time, but don't underestimate his input for the next however many games that he is in charge. Altering the players psychology isn't easy but at least those out on the pitch tonight were responsive to his demands and if they continue to perform with that level of commitment they will eventually pick up the victories they require.
The players tonight, in the second-half at least, have set a bench-mark for themselves and it's one that they will have to match in the coming games and for the rest of their careers at Goodison if they are to prove worthy of wearing an Everton shirt.
The issues that the team has won't go away overnight, but at least we can feel that they are trying for the club and at this juncture that's about as much as we can expect.
142 Posted 25/10/2017 at 23:58:48
143 Posted 25/10/2017 at 00:04:38
the younger players played well, rooney had a better second half but is clearly not a striker, McCarthey isn't up to standard im afraid.
but honestly im happy, not for the result but for the performance because we haven't had a good performance this season.
144 Posted 25/10/2017 at 00:12:45
But make no mistake, we are now on the right track up the table if we can produce the fight and will to win we showed tonight on a consistent basis then all will be well, Lets Do It Lads
145 Posted 25/10/2017 at 00:20:49
146 Posted 26/10/2017 at 00:22:51
147 Posted 26/10/2017 at 00:23:49
Is that good enough long term, is it bollocks no, but it is a damn good start and gives us hope at last.
Perhaps it's a flash in the pan but I very much doubt it as we have a manager, albeit short term, who is clearly on a mission. Personally, I can't wait for the game at Leicester now.
148 Posted 25/10/2017 at 00:30:58
149 Posted 25/10/2017 at 00:32:25
The board or whoever makes the final decision, (when do we ever know what happens within the club, we are only the customers!!) need to give David time.
Yes we lost, did anybody really expect us to get a result pre match?
We have just had a 'fancy Dan' manager who was terrible in every aspect of his job, do we have to risk getting another dud.
Time and results will tell the story of course but I like what DU has developed into, I cant see why he cant become a first class Everton manager.
150 Posted 26/10/2017 at 00:33:51
151 Posted 26/10/2017 at 00:36:28
Well done Unsy, and it raises values and expectations, for the rest of this season.
Early, early days burst this was miles better than what we had on th Dutch style menu?
152 Posted 26/10/2017 at 00:40:43
I guess that's fair. But anyone who has ever played will know that they're are times when you just can't get going, regardless of how much you care.
This season under Koeman was a great example. You can't press on your own. You can't find space to run into when the team is too narrow. You can't throw yourself into tackles and headers when the opposition are being given so much time on the ball.
Tonight was a great effort generally, but mostly it was just about being functional rather than dysfunctional. Playing all of the positions on the pitch. Pretty simple stuff really.
153 Posted 26/10/2017 at 00:43:03
154 Posted 26/10/2017 at 00:48:11
155 Posted 26/10/2017 at 00:53:04
Take out the crap situation we are in I think some players have really let themselves down in general. The problem is we al react to different personalities in different ways.
We see these guys on match day. Can you imagine going into an environment every day where you might be bullied, insecurities played on etc...
All these guys have won the lottery but the way he treated Oumar is not on. That will rub off and have an impact. The players were playing with fear.
I am not sure there is a ransom anywhere by any of the players. They are just saying no thanks!
156 Posted 25/10/2017 at 00:53:38
For me mediocrity is embodied by Wayne Rooney. Yes, he can still score every now and then but his contribution otherwise is not only slim but actually detrimental to others in the team in that he keeps getting in their way by seeking to do their job for them without regard to the fact his body simply can't do the required running. That's why he's physically spent after an hour at most. Years and years on the piss does that to people Wayne, if you're wondering owd man.
Innate mediocrity is Moshiri's particular problem. How to purge such a shitty attitude from top to bottom?
If Unsworth is the answer I'll be surprised and delighted but the much vaunted "three year project" has long since been flushed down the bog courtesy of the amateurish fannying about in summer re recruitment.
And which of those who did sign will now fancy knuckling down to a new regime? Some of the latest signings might now just wanna flee the Farm rather than "get stuck in" and we'll lose even more money in the process.
If he has any hope at all of top six, never mind top four, NEXT season I suggest Mr Moshiri will have to spend hugely in January to merely prepare for it and up to now he's been very averse to net spend on players.
On top of that he also needs to employ a manager with magical powers if he's daft enough to still harbour any hope at all of Champions League qualification before 2020.
But hey, we weren't hammered at Chelsea. "Trebles all round eh Bill!!!!"
157 Posted 26/10/2017 at 00:57:03
While a defeat is always a defeat, the signs appear to have been positive. But let's not get carried away: nobody can change a team in merely a couple of days, although psychology and a different formation can have an impact, obviously. Not just the psychological nous of the new man in charge, but also the psychological boost a team tends to get when there's a change of manager following a dire period.
But there is certainly a great deal to look forward to, on Sunday (yet another Sunday game!).
158 Posted 26/10/2017 at 01:11:53
Net spend? How exactly does one 'net spend'? You either spend or you don't... we spent. We spent quite a bit.
Exactly how many players did you expect us to sign? (or net sign).
159 Posted 26/10/2017 at 01:35:05
160 Posted 26/10/2017 at 01:36:32
161 Posted 26/10/2017 at 01:38:21
Everton need to build the team like Utd did with their class of 92 youth team players,and we all know how that went (Neville,Butt,Scholes,Beckham,Giggs).We have U20 world cup winners which is better than youth team players.Lookman,DCL,Kenny,Dowell and Davis !.Once we get back Coleman,Bolasie,Mori and Barkley we should recoup our 140 million and spend it on a centre forward,what a team we would have managed by Evertonians Unsworth,big dunc,joe royal and ebrell !.
163 Posted 26/10/2017 at 01:46:27
His work with u23's speaks for itself and he plays an attractive style. He is a good coach.
He is an evertonian and the importance of that cannot be underestimated-it means he won't look at us as an outsider a la Koeman and accept where he thinks EFC should be but rather aim for where we want to be. He won't be going into big games thinking if we get beat 1-0 it's acceptable, he'll hurt like us and work for us to break that ethos and crash the monopoly as that s what he wants us to be and more importantly where he AIMS us to be. He will work with the sole purpose of victory. He won't just accept 7th and then move on to another job. This is his DREAM, he's in for the long haul. Therefore we will get the most out of him and he will push Everton and god help us we need that.
Finally, he has already come across as a great ambassador for the club with a good knowledge. He already knows the players, the resources, the strengths and limitations and probably has a fairly good idea how he wants to play. there will be no long settling in period i.e. he is ready!
(side point there will be no long drawn compensation package or contract negotiation with telease clauses leaving us in limbo for weeks-not a big point but still a positive)
I'm ready to give RHINO a go. He is the man for this situation.
164 Posted 26/10/2017 at 02:17:03
Rhino comes in with a plan, and gets his players who believe in him into the side. He'll feel even more empowered after Bang-em-in's performance and the overall performance.
165 Posted 26/10/2017 at 02:24:09
As we can all see, Moshiri is nowhere close to being that rich and he doesn't deserve criticism on that basis but in my opinion it does mean that unless we now appoint a manager with Messianic qualities we'll probably wait quite a few more years before achieving CL qualification because we'll have to sell to buy unless a mega-billionaire comes on board.
Ernie, to answer your question I believed, given Moshiri's pronouncements about the three year project, that we'd sign a meaningful centre-forward this summer to replace (and hopefully improve on) Lukaku. How delusional was I? I also thought we'd sign a talented left back and centre back because Baines, Williams and Jagielka are getting on to say the least and their performances last season were visibly dwindling by way of age alone. I didn't think we needed as many as three new "no 10's" either but, as said, how delusional was I?
To pose questions back, how many players did you expect in the summer, and why?
166 Posted 26/10/2017 at 03:15:55
You know all these so called great managers all had to start some where. Please let Everton be the club that gives Rhino a start, and back him 100% in the way he wants the team to play and in the transfer market. We had a so called top manager at 6m a year and where did that get us
167 Posted 26/10/2017 at 03:43:18
168 Posted 26/10/2017 at 04:47:24
Great post-match reaction vid from Unsworth on Everton TV:
169 Posted 26/10/2017 at 04:56:13
He has to turn us from being a shocking team full of unhappy, confused players playing below par almost to a man.
He has to get the whole squad back on board. He has to reignite the natural passion of the Evertonian, bring joy back to Goodison, put an end to the zombie football which has regularly sent 40,000 people filing out of Goodison in almost total silence. He has to give our wonderful travelling army something to hang on to. He has to restore our standing in the game, stop us from being a laughing stock.
David Unsworth has been tasked with the job of restoring the very soul of this club. There is only one candidate, a mercenary wouldn't have the wherewithal.
He should be able to set about his monumental restoration job in the certain knowledge that he has the complete backing of everyone who loves this club
171 Posted 26/10/2017 at 05:06:28
In my humble opinion, I was very pleased with our 2nd half display after the crap we have had watch so far this season. There was some good performances and one of the best Everton debut's I have seen by Beningime.
I am not getting carried away, it is early days, but if more Twebers had seen the actual game they may have been more optimistic with there views.
I hope Rhino can overcome the giant hurdle of turning this club around but he will need time support and patience from fans.
172 Posted 26/10/2017 at 05:21:20
In the main he did, Rooney perhaps the outlier. Interestly when DCL came on he only really looked dangerous when Niasse joined him.
Can Everton geniunely play 4-1-4-1? Because if they can then I believe we have some potential. I think Sigurdsson could play behind DCL in that triangle of midfield, and two geniune wingers.
I thought the line up had Sunday in mind a touch. I think DCL will play instead of Rooney , Siggy instead of McCarthy who is unlikely to play twice in a week.
Energy and mobility will be the blocks Unsworth will lay first, better players will add to it.
I think retaining Mirallas and Lennon would be wise, Lookman has to get a-bit longer with each game. Eventually you want Bolaise & Lookman as your wingers.
But the inverted triangle in midfield was excellent, those three positions can be rotated rather since we have a surplus of players there. The only thing it lacked was a creative passer, not quite Davies night.
Immediately I see balance across the pitch and crucially up and down it. 5 defensively minded players, five attacking players.
If he sticks with that approach for all four games I think we will see improvement quickly.
173 Posted 26/10/2017 at 05:44:20
I think we are slightly undone by the rapid decline of Baines, Williams and Jags - all at the same time, but the signs were there last season. And unfortunately Holgate (or Browning, Pennington or Gallagher) hasn't made the step up.
But what wins title is not "net spend" its wages - and no individual is rich enough to pour wages into the club and the FFP rules would prevent it now anyway. But it is what it is - we need to compete as best we can and the better we do on the pitch (Euro league etc) the more we will be able to close the revenue gap off the pitch. Moshiri is clearly helping us do so - particularly if we get Bramley Moore built (and so far so good on that front)
174 Posted 26/10/2017 at 05:45:51
Didn't "Honest" Ron tell us that none of the "kids" were ready and here we have Unsworth using five of them in this game and giving time to one who was told he had no future at Everton.
Sorry, what are the qualities we want from a Manager?
175 Posted 26/10/2017 at 06:00:43
176 Posted 26/10/2017 at 06:16:44
177 Posted 26/10/2017 at 06:19:24
178 Posted 26/10/2017 at 06:23:36
179 Posted 26/10/2017 at 06:38:58
Let's hope for more improvement on Sunday and 3 points.
180 Posted 26/10/2017 at 07:07:51
I loved how the combinations started to work down the flanks particularly. Lennon and Kenny and also Baines and Mirallas. Jags and Williams looked good together also
I think Niasse and DCL will do well together.
Rooney should be playing midfield, he made a couple of sublime long passes to Mirallas.
I'd like to see Rooney, Davies and Sigs in the mid with 3 quick lads up front. Gana and Schneiderlin dropping in for defensive purposes when needed.
Well done Rhino!
181 Posted 26/10/2017 at 07:34:49
This Beni kid is a player.
Great to see McCarthy back as well.
I was very encouraged by our steel in midfield. I never saw us back out of a single tackle, and we were not afraid to make a hard challenge.
The 70s porn-look-a-like on Chelsea torched Kenny more than once. I think Kenny needs more experience and help back there.
And their keeper had one hell of a game. On another day we could have won that game.
If we were a stock, we'd be a solid buy currently as based upon what I saw we will definitely be on the up.
Well done Unsy. Keep at it.
182 Posted 26/10/2017 at 08:09:14
Does kind of feel like that Dazza. I just wish I could find your confidence and conviction as to who is right and who is wrong for the club.
Unfortunately my world isn't quite so black and white. I have to many grey areas.
As usual your colors are nailed early. I sincerely hope you are right this time
184 Posted 26/10/2017 at 08:14:07
185 Posted 26/10/2017 at 08:17:56
It does amaze me that koeman tried to get the team to high press and failed. Yet lastnight the Whole team pressed and we won the ball high up the park. Id settle for top 10 this year and a cup run under unsworth. If unsy dosnt get the job id like him to be the number 2 of the next guy, he has somthing about him. Coyb
186 Posted 26/10/2017 at 08:30:38
That being said, this is early days, and the key will be, as ever, goals. We conceded dreadfully and at a dreadful time. Where was the marking on the corner? And we very nearly gave away another. It's difficult to build confidence when your lack of confidence has you making silly mistakes.
At the other end, Lookman did well, and I thought Mirallas looked a threat too. I was pleased with Calvert-Lewin getting his goal and also at Niasse's part in setting it up. Of course the Elephant, not in the room, is Lukaku. That being said, if Unsworth can get them playing like he did last night then I think he'll turn things round by Christmas. Well done to the away support too, they sounded great on my ropey internet link.
187 Posted 26/10/2017 at 08:42:56
Sunday will be tough, Leicester will be up for it. Interesting to see who he goes with we need a settled 11. If we lose I fear for oir fragile confidence.
188 Posted 26/10/2017 at 08:55:34
The team was set up in the same was against Lyon, where bookended by 2 soft goals, we played some decent stuff. However, I am amazed that Sygurdsson was omitted. His ability to find a killer ball and his running off it would be ideal in that formation. He also scores goals from midfield.
This at least shows we have options. With the 4141 shape we can play Rooney/DCL/Niasse up top. We have a options in central midfielders, Sygurdsson/Davies/Klaasen (maybe)/Barkley; wide options and more holding players than you can shake a yellow card at.
This squad is solid. I trust the club to do the right thing and let Unsworth get it working. Forget the Lyon game, another chance to give players an opportunity. But as even 3 wins doesn't guarentee progress. If we win the 2 league games, and continue to play at a higher tempo, then the manager's office is filled.
189 Posted 26/10/2017 at 09:14:25
Chelseas lowest priority is the Cara cup and in the 2nd half the onus was all on us to score , and we didnt .(until it was too late).
The league is what matters , and what Moshiri cares about is league results.
The big big question now is whether David and the players can turn that second half real Everton performance into 90 mins against Leicester, and Then Watford .
The second half Everton will see us win against these inferior teams.
These games are Unsworths golden ticket for the top job.
190 Posted 26/10/2017 at 09:17:53
I would still fancy us in Europe league to qualify for Champions league next season if we have nothing to play for in April and May with a huge squad we will have with Mori,Coleman,Bolasie and Barkley coming back.One perfect striker and the fortunes will change completely.Hoping Walsh has already started looking for more than one option.
191 Posted 26/10/2017 at 09:22:29
Jamie, interesting that you think that Kenny struggled, Unsworth, in his post match interview available on the OS, thought he'd had his best game in an Everton first team shirt. Lennon helped with cover, to be fair.
I thought he acquitted himself well against the waiter we had in Corfu in 1982, he's just as tricky with a bottle of Ouzo
192 Posted 26/10/2017 at 09:24:37
193 Posted 26/10/2017 at 09:35:38
Like us all, I pray he can do it and then we can build again. We must get at least one win from our next two league games.
194 Posted 26/10/2017 at 09:41:20
My throats a bit sore but I should be fluent in a couple of months, joking apart; I was glad I did see most of the game; what a difference with the attitude, determination and passion, so sadly amiss with Koeman at the helm.
Okay, we didn't win, but acquitted ourselves admirably, and can walk away; both team and fans alike; defeated, but not humiliated.
Like many have said, the acid test will be the Leicester game; and again I am looking forward to that.
195 Posted 26/10/2017 at 09:45:01
196 Posted 26/10/2017 at 09:46:41
I somehow believe that Unsie would prefer to have only the squad he had round him last night !
197 Posted 26/10/2017 at 09:51:04
Some positives with the young players, who I hope will get another run out in the next game against Leicester where we can better judge what level we are at.
Must win game if we are going to get away from the relegation zone.
198 Posted 26/10/2017 at 10:01:03
That is the attitude we want from both manager and players alike, disappointed we didn't win but magnanimous and determined to do better next time.
Let's face it, Unsworth has not had long to adjust from U23 coach to Manager and to prepare for a Cup match too; so credit due there I feel, a bit early I know, but a few more of those, hopefully with a win; I would have no qualms about Rhino being made El Supremo.
I still can't quite believe the transformation of the players attitudes and determination during the game, in comparison to Saturday against the Arse, after they had drawn level; the towel went in seemingly.
199 Posted 26/10/2017 at 10:02:27
200 Posted 26/10/2017 at 10:04:17
201 Posted 26/10/2017 at 10:05:35
202 Posted 26/10/2017 at 10:14:32
The post match interview was a tonic. How refreshing to hear someone who speaks English (well, the scouse version anyway) and can articulate what he is thinking and what the fans are wanting to hear. I had real trouble understanding RK's speech.
Unsworth I feel has a huge future ahead of him although it remains to be seen how quickly he grows into the role but from the evidence of Norwich 18 months ago, the U23s and last night he has the ground running and no reason to suspect he will not keep going. There will inevitably be disappointments, trips and falls along the way but I can't remember feeling this optimistic for ages. I guess midway/two thirds of the way through RM's stint before it all started to fall apart was the last time. I never really embraced the Koeman appointment although wishing him every success (with us of course), so we move on.
Bring it on Rhino, keep up the good work, and good luck for Sunday and the rest of the season - which I hope you earn and get.
203 Posted 26/10/2017 at 10:19:27
Unsy is due to meet the board this Friday apparently, but the comment below sends shivers through my spine regarding how heavily involved soppy bollocks still is at the club. It looks as though nothing has changed at all regarding the day to day running of the club. This was the same line every manager has trotted out since dour Davey was in the hotseat:
“Im scheduled to meet [Kenwright] on Friday afternoon. I speak to the chairman three or four times a day. The communication is brilliant. Ive got a great relationship with the board. What will be will be. Theres no points return or games total that theyve set. I just have to be committed. We have to try to win some games and take it from there."
204 Posted 26/10/2017 at 10:25:37
How totally arrogant is that? No mention of the unbalanced team selections; players morale at an all time low; buying overpriced players ill suited to the Prem; failing to play promising young players; etc, etc, etc.
I for one, was not that keen on Giroud coming anyway, not that he is not a good player; but that clown would have paid £30M for a 31 year old, who is let's face it, erratic.
His attitude with Niasse too was deplorable and further adds to his bombastic attitude, with public condemnation of the lad; and this all before he had to play him out of necessity almost; the lad scores and gives him a temporary stay of execution.
I sincerely hope the Board have closely heeded all this, coupled with the turn-around last night, and don't make another managerial blunder by going for a high profile arrogant mercenary.
205 Posted 26/10/2017 at 11:00:54
I've always said that any half decent manager would get us in the top seven and I'm sure Unsy would do the same. Astute selection last night. Lots of games coming up, Lennon, Lookman & McCarthy need game time. If the 'Stalag 6' story is true, he was wise to pick the players he knew.
Despite the result, an encouraging start. I hope Unsy gets enough time for us all to make a more accurate judgement on his capabilities. Unless they've already 'got' someone, I'd like them to announce he's got the job for the rest of the season. At least then, he, the players and we know where we stand.
208 Posted 26/10/2017 at 11:23:43
This has been a considerably higher profile debacle than the one at Valencia but the parallels seem pretty clear. Whatever sort of spin/cop out/excuse or bleating he wants to sound off with in his home country I think most of Europe has probably seen it clear as daylight.
I am starting to like the bloke even less since he left. The sound bites coming out of many corners are painting a pretty bleak picture of the man.
209 Posted 26/10/2017 at 11:31:09
Everton U18 4 - Liverpool U18 1
210 Posted 26/10/2017 at 11:33:09
211 Posted 26/10/2017 at 11:35:15
There was a much more positive mentality to a much more balanced squad and if we would have had a quality striker up front I think we could have easily won the game. Baningime looked assured and confident in his role and Gueye and Schneiderlin now have competition for their places.
Please, Unsy please, please never play Williams again – he is nothing more than a lard-arsed accident waiting to happen.
212 Posted 26/10/2017 at 11:48:02
213 Posted 26/10/2017 at 11:52:19
It's a sunk cost, in economists' terms. The rational thing now is to do what's best for now and the future, not just use a resource because we've paid for it.
Mind you, emotion can overtake rationality. That woman I married, I'm still with her.
214 Posted 26/10/2017 at 12:00:18
I think that Walsh, Elstone and Kenwright need to be held accountable for every dollar and every decision.
215 Posted 26/10/2017 at 12:02:18
216 Posted 26/10/2017 at 12:07:39
Curious myself about Staley 6 hmmm.
217 Posted 26/10/2017 at 12:08:58
218 Posted 26/10/2017 at 12:11:21
Assuming you keep your squad about the same size it means buying high (ie proven league winning quality) and selling low (ie they go when they've served their purpose).
With our current reputation we'd have to be throwing money around that just couldn't be turned down in order to get those players. Not for one second do I think we should (or could) do that.
Our model seems to be that we get them before they're fully proven and reluctantly sell when we can't hold them anymore. Every now and then we might get a proven second tier kind of player.
That's about all we can attract right now.
How many did I think we'd sign? Certainly not as many as we did! Yes we should have signed a striker but that doesn't change how many cheques got signed. And there's reasonable evidence that we would have signed another fat one for Giroud (or similar).
Not for one second do I think that we were not ambitious in terms of player acquisition. Our net spend over a selected period of time doesn't affect that at all.
219 Posted 26/10/2017 at 12:15:49
My theory is he probably reads ToffeeWeb and can see as much as everyone on here can see.
220 Posted 26/10/2017 at 12:27:58
I saw an article on Twitter from the Daily Mail, where a 'high ranking official' at the club was asked about morale/training methods under Koeman and he responded, 'No-one was allowed in Stalag 6'.
If nothing else, this gives us an idea of the morale within the club, if it's true.
221 Posted 26/10/2017 at 12:33:01
He was the one I wanted to come in to at least steady the ship, let's hope is ruthless in his selection and doesn't have any loyalty to the old guard.
And isn't forced into playing people because they have a big price tag.
222 Posted 26/10/2017 at 12:39:30
223 Posted 26/10/2017 at 12:51:18
Are we going to revert to battling? what is the plan for Everton? The managerial choice should be based on playing style in my opinion. This summer we were to believe that more money and more ambition would lead to more success . Now in October are we are happy losers again and will take 7th. Dream over?
If we are to win anything in a league with stylish teams like Man City, Chelsea and Spurs, I am not sure battling is going to be enough. Perhaps if we had speed and skill upfront and a top striker to add to the battling we could turn into a Leicester title winning type team but we don't have that right now.
Either Unsworth was happy to go out of another cup playing a weakened side against Chelsea B or he believes that; Williams Lennon and the young kid are better than, Keane, Lookman and Gueye and that was his best team that lost...either way not a sign of a smart manager.
I accept its one game and early days but we just flopped out of another cup to a standing ovation vs a b team?
On the plus side in the second half I saw our back line 10 yards inside the Chelsea half, so that's 10 in the opponents half as opposed to Koemans 1 to 4. If Unsworth picks the best players and not his chums or whatever that selection was, then that offensive attitude may work.
In conclusion, Unsworth needs to show ambition, brains and tactical awareness or we need to find that elsewhere.
224 Posted 26/10/2017 at 12:54:26
We are all happy with Unsy because he is one of us etc. Some posters have also said we have a team capable of 7th and Unsy could get us there.
We need to ask ourselves how ambitious are Everton FC, how ambitious are we as fans? Do we want to stay in our blue bubble and be content with 7th place finishes?
Is this what we have come to? If we are happy with this then don't be surprised when we are viewed as a small club by the football world.
I want Everton to win trophies, I want us to win derby matches, I want us to compete. I am definitely not satisfied with where we currently are and where our current ambitions seem to be.
I don't know the answers and I do not know if David Unsworth can lead us to those ambitions or if the club will provide the ambitious backing required. Football is a global game now and I still believe we would need a global name with a good proven track record to make us winners again along with an ambitious backer of course.
Without that then we may need to be very patient to build a young team and also accept that our better and ambitious players will always be getting poached.
225 Posted 26/10/2017 at 13:02:00
This gives a decent run of matches to make a mark.
If a new manager was to come in now he would have to wait till January anyway before he could change out personnel, so is he likely to do much better than Unsworth with these players ?
Gives us time to do due diligence and find the right guy to take over should things not improve.
Im looking forward to Leicester, the atmosphere among the fans at the end of the game last night was at an emotional high for the season, something to take on to Sunday!! COYB
226 Posted 26/10/2017 at 13:04:17
Unsworth may not be the long term answer, but he is already an improvement on the previous incumbent
227 Posted 26/10/2017 at 13:04:18
Some observations/suggestions for the weekend game: bring Keane back in for Williams. Change the starting wingers from Lennon & Mirallas to Lookman & Vlasic. Absolutely keep Beni in the team, thought he was the class act for our side. Rooney can no longer play the lone striker role but still has quality to offer.
Seems to me that our poor defensive record may be down to the fact that we have not been retaining possession and therefore putting our back-line under constant pressure. Amazing when we were dominating & attacking last night that our defenders looked more assured and were mopping up Chelsea's clearances.
Keep it up Rhino.
228 Posted 26/10/2017 at 13:07:58
Gueye was suspended for last night's match and I would imagine Unsworth thought that Lennon would give Kenny a bit more defensive cover than Lookman would, rightly in my opinion.
As for Chelsea's 'B' team, we had finished with Lookman, Kenny, DCL, Baningime, Davies, all Under 23 players yet we had them on the back foot for the second half. Along with Lennon and Mirallas, you could hardly call it OUR 'A' Team yet we more than gave them a game.
I watched all the match and we deserved whatever ovation came our way for the manner in which we took the game to Chelsea in the second half. Not "happy losers" but fans appreciating a tremendous fighting performance, especially considering the crap we've witnessed this season.
229 Posted 26/10/2017 at 13:09:48
230 Posted 26/10/2017 at 13:19:32
We showed fight and determination after going a goal down something which has been lacking all season. No shame in Losing at Chelsea especially with a good performance. Benigime looks a decent prospect I would keep him in on Sunday.
231 Posted 26/10/2017 at 13:19:36
Unsworth says he wants the best for Everton, that equals a cup. He wants the job and see's Leicester as more important for his job application, that's best for him not Everton. I would do the same mind. We would all like to manage Everton. My mistake on Gueye, just illustrating that wasn't a first choice side.
232 Posted 26/10/2017 at 13:20:59
Its part of their business plan ie stay in the black making a nice little profit and just keep things ticking along nicely.
If you want to challenge, really challenge, for the title then you have to spend 100s of millions every season and get the best players on the market.
As a dreamer I hope that that isnt the case (see Leicester) but its becoming next to impossible to compete with these super rich teams who are in a different financial dimension. Thats why Ill be cheering on Spurs this season to win the title.
233 Posted 26/10/2017 at 13:27:51
For me Everton were on the front foot second half so whatever Unzy said at halftime made a difference which is more than I can say for any of Koeman's half-time talks!
Unzy has said he wants to play the Everton way, he knows what the fans expect and for him this would be the best job in football. Joy to my ears...
234 Posted 26/10/2017 at 13:28:48
Have a good look at the Everton team, two youngsters in midfield and the third coming back from a long term injury, add to that two fringe players in Lennon and Mirallas, both not played a lot of games this season, so anyone saying Chelsea did not play their first team, add to that Unsworth only had just over a Day to-sort a team out, he did bloody well with the team he put out.
Going back you look at Arsenal when they played a second string in the old league cup, they had some decent youngsters, same as Chelsea have now, so I would dismiss this Chelsea did not play their strongest 11 and instead put cart horses and crocks in.
Unsworth like I have said previously needs to be given time before we jump into a new manager.
Said it Monday and will stick by my comment that We already have the manager here in Unsworth, all he needs is time and he will get Everton back competing and going for wins.
Have a good feeling one I never had when we got Martinez and even Koeman, but with Unsworth, we have someone within the club who knows what Everton is all about and will bust a gut to get this team winning again.
235 Posted 26/10/2017 at 13:37:02
Players who did not play yesterday must now earn their place back in the team. On merit, not reputation.
I'd be very happy for Unsworth to continue in the role of manager, should we continue to improve like yesterday.
The best bit was our heads not dropping after going a goal down. Even at two down we kept going and deservedly got a goal back.
236 Posted 26/10/2017 at 13:55:44
Getting a proven manager makes a lot of sense. But proven managers all had a first management job where someone took a risk on them, and I feel like we would be in good hands if we took a risk on Unsworth. He is largely thought to have done a fantastic job with the Under 23s, has been part of this football club for a long time, and is a local lad. He ticks a lot of boxes - but being permanent manager of the first team at a professional club is not one of them. He has been part of management teams at Preston, Sheffield United and Everton - and has been involved in coaching for the last seven years.
I can understand the appeal of trying to attract an experienced and successful top-level manager like Tuchel, Silva, Ancelotti, Bielsa, Pellegrini, Mancini etc, but in my mind that would be another sort of risk. I feel like we need someone who, if they make a success of the job, will still be here in five years. I don't believe that any of those other managers would - they'd be chasing bigger jobs as and when they came into view (or be retiring). It was going to be the same with Koeman; he was already salivating at the prospect of moving on from us to Barcelona when he accepted the job.
Unsworth might not be the fashionable name in the frame, but he might just be the right one for this club right now.
237 Posted 26/10/2017 at 14:01:17
Not making excuses post mortem, but I think when all things taken into account, we did not so bad, can only improve.
I agree that Rooney looked a spent force after the first half, should have been subbed earlier, imo, Siggurdson and others obviously kept out with next game in mind, good managerial move by Unsy, you don't put all your eggs in the one basket.
After all, a Cup would be nice, but Prem is the bread and butter, and will also be a good indicator of how Unsy can adjust from one competition, to a slightly different one.
Apart from the striker situation; which had nothing to do with Unsy; no matter who was in charge; would have the same problem till January.
It wouldn't bother me if Schneiderlin, Klaassen and Martina; never played for us again; but what a waste of money that could have gone elsewhere.
238 Posted 26/10/2017 at 14:03:54
I doubt very much if Keane, Holgate, Martina etc would have improved the performance considering the way they've performed recently. Sigurdsson might have been an option but I also think Unsworth was showing some of the 'regulars' how it's done using the young players as an example.
Saying that, Banigime played as well as any of our midfielders has this season and I would certainly start him ahead of Schneiderlin or even Gueye on Sunday.
Last night, Chelsea got lucky, we hit the bar and had one kicked off the line, they brought their big guns on second half because they had to. They're still Champions remember and were on their own pitch
239 Posted 26/10/2017 at 14:07:44
240 Posted 26/10/2017 at 14:09:50
He above anybody else will know whether or not we need a proven goal scorer, and if so get one lined up now for the January window.
Ross would sign his new contract.
Even Graeme Souness says hes the right man!
Neville Southall all but naming him is (my interpretation) suggesting him.
Its win win in my book. Money cannot buy what Unsworth has.
Its worth giving him the job for the rest of the season at least. What is there to lose?
242 Posted 26/10/2017 at 14:26:05
In Guardiola's first match as manager of Barcelona, they were beaten by Numancia, who were relegated that season!, the rest is history. I'm not comparing both, but to say Unsworth is not a smart manager, because he didn't play the players you wanted, and you didn't know one of them was suspended, enough said.
243 Posted 26/10/2017 at 14:47:52
We can go through a process but if he's doing well there's no urgency at all.
244 Posted 26/10/2017 at 14:47:54
It's not about picking my fave players, its about picking the strongest team and it had Williams in it, so it clearly wasn't. I am asking will he have the brains to add to his battling nature, showing some tactical nous? Yes it's game one, so he gets time to show us all and I want him to do well.
Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean you have to be rude. Alan Shearer was Mr Newcastle and took them down, lets not get clouded by our liking of the man.
245 Posted 26/10/2017 at 14:50:39
Who would you have played, and who would you have dropped from last nights team.
Bearing in mind the second half was the best I think we've played this season.
246 Posted 26/10/2017 at 14:53:37
247 Posted 26/10/2017 at 15:03:14
248 Posted 26/10/2017 at 15:10:30
I was happy to see no Martina and is Schneiderlin injured? I am not a fan of him either. Perhaps there is a striker or centre back in the u23's I don't know of, who could have come in for either Rooney or Williams if the alternatives aren't good enough.
We need to sell and recoup some cash in Jan but I worry we wont buy speed and skill and buy battlers. I hope I am wrong.
249 Posted 26/10/2017 at 15:15:26
250 Posted 26/10/2017 at 15:21:15
251 Posted 26/10/2017 at 15:29:22
I managed to catch the highlights, thanks to a fan on here, and saw Beni's tackle ball control and pass, loved it and long may he stay and show his football ability with the Blues.
A defeat but we showed some pride and the confidence level should rise after that second half performance.
252 Posted 26/10/2017 at 15:32:42
Surely you are applying flawed logic to your thinking when continuing to argue "going out of cup playing some squad men shows a lack of ambition" by David Unsworth?
Have you seen us play this season up to last night? The very players you are seemingly arguing to be included against Chelsea are the very same players who, by and large, have been absolute DROSS!
The Gueye and Schneiderlin changes were forced on DU. The players he called in to replace them didn't do half bad, did they? He played 4 of the regular defensive back 5 and played Kenny as his 5th option. The alternatives, presumably, were Holgate or Martina. Not too radical there then.
He addressed the lack of potency that has been so evident in the side all season, ensuring throughout the 90 minutes there was a 'doubling up' of players down either flank. Kenny with Lennon/Lookman, Baines with Mirallas.
He brought on timely subs which were like for like and so didn't adversely affect the balance or momentum of the team. Rather, they gave even greater impetus and threat.
Unsworth achieved all this in less than 48 hours, in which time they also travelled down to London, leaving him little or no time to prepare or work with the team.
As such, it was a performance to encourage and restore some much lost hope and pride in the team, the club, the players.
I 'get' the argument we may benefit from a proven, higher profile manager.
I also consider there is nobody - nobody on the entire planet at the moment - who has as much in-depth working knowledge of the players in both the senior and junior ranks and who could best step up and do a job for us than David Unsworth.
A couple of links worth viewing.
Beni Baningime speaking about his debut. This lad appears to have his feet very well-grounded, but also exudes a quiet self-confidence in his own ability. See his eyes light up at the end when told Joe Royle told the interviewer he thought Beni's was one of the best debuts he had seen in his 50 years association with the game.
Kevin Mirallas speaking positively and contrasting life under Koeman compared to working under Unsworth.
These are both available on the official club site and you may have to register/login to view them. There are also two post-match interviews with DU himself.
ALL are making the right noises about the team, IMO.
253 Posted 26/10/2017 at 16:04:23
I remember one girl telling me she dreamt of my body.
She dreamt the Police were asking her to identify it
254 Posted 26/10/2017 at 16:15:21
Schneiderlin was 'sick' , Keane has been below par...see? Running out of options. Unsworth picked probably the best team at his disposal, and one which put up our best performance of the season so far. I don't think that there can be any criticism of him.
The under 23 central defender is Pennington who is on loan at Leeds and has done well for them. He has been injured and came back last weekend.
255 Posted 26/10/2017 at 16:16:14
Looking at the market there are nobody being gambled on yet with money from in the know/insider information, so its pretty safe to say that the powers above have not yet made their mind up or squared it with any other potential Everton manager.
Our match on Sunday- Leicester 11/10 Everton 5/2 draw 11/4.
Anyone really fancying us I think 5/2 is a semi decent price.
Having said that King Power Stadium will be bear pit, which could be good for a goal start for them!
Vardy and Mahrez take some marking so its bound to be a difficult day.
256 Posted 26/10/2017 at 16:22:59
Guardiola was elevated from Barcelona B coach, to take over the first team, a huge ask, especially a massive club like Barca', so isn't it great to give David a chance. The change in 1 game has been massive, a lot more positive approach from a man who has so much knowledge of the club he loves. Don't underestimate Unsworth, he won't be afraid to make big decisions, and like last night, pick the team he wants. I was very impressed with his comments about Barkley, and come January, with him still the boss, a left sided centreback, a left back if Garbutt doesn't make it, and a No.9 will be on his wishlist.
257 Posted 26/10/2017 at 16:25:21
None of the big clubs in this league, who apparently we are now competing with money wise ( our net spend doesn't reflect this, but let's go with it anyway ) would even dream of giving the managers job full time to an untried manager. We are still plucky little small time Everton, and always will be until Kenwright and Elstone do one.
258 Posted 26/10/2017 at 16:26:48
259 Posted 26/10/2017 at 16:30:04
260 Posted 26/10/2017 at 16:45:07
261 Posted 26/10/2017 at 16:47:54
It's a good job Unsworth values players like James, who leave everything on the pitch, despite their lack of goals and 60 yard pinpoint passes. I also think Tom and young Beni were grateful to have someone as determined to not let the opposition play as he was beside them
262 Posted 26/10/2017 at 16:49:52
More importantly, he knows us, respects our traditions and is not just here to make a killing on the way to Barcelona.He may not be what some of the 'Johnnies come lately' will take to but on what we've seen of them so far, hurrah to that and on yer bike !
Everton just got back to basics and about fecking time, too !
263 Posted 26/10/2017 at 16:59:29
264 Posted 26/10/2017 at 17:05:11
We should as a fanbase realise weve taken several steps back. I think the depth of damage Koeman did, is yet to be uncovered.
Sure the board are accountable too for not holding Koeman to higher standards. That has to change, the DoF whether or not the relationship is good or bad needs the coach to report to him as the boards representative.
In the light of the fiasco but thats being polite, we need to return to a more fundamental approach. I guess that why Unsworth feels the right choice.
He knows the squad and is likely to gain trust/buy in much more quickly that a domestic manager (Dyche), and certainly more than a brand new foreign coach (Tuchel).
I will say Id have no issue with Tuchel, I hope if thats the case Unsworth is promoted to first team coach.
265 Posted 26/10/2017 at 17:05:36
266 Posted 26/10/2017 at 17:12:30
Yes, the 2nd half was a big improvement on this season's performances but we still lost the game to Chelsea's second string. I could weep when I see the mess Koeman has left and the money he's pissed away.
The clocks haven't even gone back and our season is shot to bits Believe me, it's going to take a Herculean effort to pull away from the foot of the table with this squad.
267 Posted 26/10/2017 at 17:53:32
Early days but I hope the "managing the U23's is a far cry from managing the 1st team" brigade reserve their negativity, perhaps even get onboard the Unsie train and bring their much needed bon homie.
As a long time observer of Unsworth's work I feel that given time he will implement the same system that the U23's play and it will be effective. Siggurdson will not fit in that system, we'd be best served selling him on. I see Bolasie thriving under Unsworth until he gets injured again. We still need a top quality striker but Niasse thrived under Unsworth before, maybe he can do again.
Also those that constantly bleat "he's still a kid" or "1st team is a different game" . sssh. Beni has been worthy of his opportunity for some time wait for Unsworth to get the buzzing midfield going with Beni at the helm, there will be points.
Also look out for Geithin Jones partnering Kenny on the right then see the best of Kenny. Also get Antonee Robinson back from Bolton pace, lots of it at LB / LWB. Henen looks hungry and deserves a chance . and Liam Walsh. Feeney for Williams every day of the week. I can't help feeling that we need Funes Mori back quickly as he gives the back line a more balanced look and a threat at attacking corners.
it may also be that the time is nigh for some of the senior pros to step aside and let youth have its chance. Jagielka and Baines have been average at best, sometimes a liability for 2 seasons plus. I'm not convinced that there's is a positive presence any more.
I feel optimistic now . happy that Koeman has gone. The icing on the cake would be Kenwright cashing up.
268 Posted 26/10/2017 at 18:03:20
There doesn't seem much of you left
269 Posted 26/10/2017 at 18:04:57
When the draw was made for the Carabou cup or whatever it's called and Everton landed Chelsea very few if any of us thought that we would make it to the fifth round, whilst it's dissapointing that we aren't, it isn't exactly a shock. It'll be the same in 2018 when the FA Cup begins for the Premier League teams, if Everton manage to avoid the big six and manage to beat any of the minnows they may face along the road to Wembley, it will be in the knowledge that an away tie at one of those big six will signal the end of the Wembley dream.
Had our European campaign seen better results it would only have delayed the inevitable knock-out via one of Europe's powerhouses.
It's all very sad but without extremely serious money and the ability to spend it the game has no place for glory hunting romantics.
The only thing that has put me off David Unsworth being made full time manager at Goodison is his reference to the Chairman being on the phone to him at such regular intervals. Does Levy talk to his manager on the phone all the time? How about Abramovich and Conte, does the Oligarch interrupt the Italian's family meals? Perhaps Wenger has to put down his very interesting French novel in order to satisfy Kroenke's need for constant updates? Mourinho no doubt has to leap in and out of his luxurious bath to ensure that the Glazer's are fully informed of which United players are training and which aren't.
If anything makes Everton look like a 'plucky' little club it is the Chairman and his inability to leave the manager to get on with things. Have planned formal meetings or even an update once a week, that should be enough Mr Chairman, leave the football to the professionals.
The band plays on but dissatisfaction with the Premier League is growing
270 Posted 26/10/2017 at 18:13:43
271 Posted 26/10/2017 at 18:14:30
Never thought I'd say that !
272 Posted 26/10/2017 at 18:19:32
273 Posted 26/10/2017 at 18:33:14
274 Posted 26/10/2017 at 18:35:28
275 Posted 26/10/2017 at 18:40:01
276 Posted 26/10/2017 at 18:40:03
277 Posted 26/10/2017 at 18:48:57
278 Posted 26/10/2017 at 18:56:19
279 Posted 26/10/2017 at 19:01:02
I have and believe me he has a vast knowledge of the game and how it all works.
Fair criticism please not fiction based.
280 Posted 26/10/2017 at 19:06:34
282 Posted 26/10/2017 at 19:16:01
283 Posted 26/10/2017 at 19:22:31
284 Posted 26/10/2017 at 19:24:26
285 Posted 26/10/2017 at 19:26:42
286 Posted 26/10/2017 at 19:37:35
287 Posted 26/10/2017 at 19:38:40
288 Posted 26/10/2017 at 19:41:10
...and not to forget "Productivity".
I agree, Phil. As far as I'm concerned, a period of consolidation and repair of the basics, even if it means several months at just 17th or above in the table, is preferable to jumping back on the bandwagon for a "Top" manager.
289 Posted 26/10/2017 at 19:48:10
We are playing shite like, but let's not be silly.
290 Posted 26/10/2017 at 19:52:47
Is David that man?
Our model should be Atletico Madrid: cool, tough, self-contained, and mixing home-produced with young foreign talent. In fairness to Walsh, I think that's broadly his programme. But, above all, we have to become much harder-edged in our culture, with a manager who doesn't give a shit about the theatricals.
Beningime, fantastic prospect. He just looks like a footballer, like Colin Harvey did as soon as you saw him as a kid (as Dave Abrahams notes). Lovely balance and movement and exactly the sort of toughness we need.
Win against Leicester and we just might be on to something. Come on Unsy, drive a stake through the vampire's heart.
291 Posted 26/10/2017 at 19:56:22
292 Posted 26/10/2017 at 20:21:10
293 Posted 26/10/2017 at 20:25:26
294 Posted 26/10/2017 at 20:31:53
295 Posted 26/10/2017 at 20:33:14
Pickford ,Tom , Vlasic , Beni , DCL, and Dowell are top players in the making. Lookman stands out to me as being a special footballer, will be a fantastic signing for us .We are looky to have him . No wonder Wenger is sniffing.
We have got the making of an outstanding young team , in a couple of seasons time these lads can win the league.
I am warming to the reasoning that David Unsworth maybe the man to harness this young talented force and combine it with experience into the first team.
We lost against Chelsea , but something was different , the players had an attitude. A belief. It is infectious.
I am optimistic we can push on in the same vein, and get some good results.
296 Posted 26/10/2017 at 20:36:51
297 Posted 26/10/2017 at 20:46:56
Lets not be silly?! I cant agree with that.
Two cup exits at home to poor teams? Two embarrassing Derby defeats.
We didnt ‘get into europe that would be fifth/and higher or a cup win. We scraped in via others successes.
Evertons 7th is the MINIMUM we should have expected as we are the 7th best resourced team.
The team performance wise were moribund, Lukaku saved his ass, he said as much in his interview yesterday. Yet had Lukaku been handled well he's have scored 35 not 25 goals.
Man City & Arsenal home the only memorable games of the season.
The bar is far higher than that at Everton, we got 16 months of joyless ‘defensive shithousery.
Cant wait till that fella brings a side to Goodison.
298 Posted 26/10/2017 at 20:56:22
It is indeed exciting potentially, we just have to batten down the hatches and scratch the points together for now. A cup run would be lovely but if we finish mid-table from here, and start to show some Everton style eventually, then I'll be very happy.
I was seriously thinking about whether to renew my season ticket for the first time ever if Koeman stayed; but not now. There's too much to look forward to.
299 Posted 26/10/2017 at 21:01:44
300 Posted 26/10/2017 at 21:05:40
Yes I've spoken to Kenwight, asked him (politely) a simple question about transfers, he tried to browbeat me, I wouldn't have that, asked him again, more waffle, and then he got onto Dave Hickson, saying he wished Davie was eighteen again, I asked him why as Davie never made his debut for Everton until he was around twenty one, a bit more nonsense out of him until I left him to it, he was acting all the time I spoke to him, never ever met an Evertonian like him in the long time I have followed the Blues, not appologising for this rant but Kenwright makes me want to vomit whenever I see his face or read about his love for the Blues, not one of us, or not like any of the thousands of genuine Evertonians I have met.
301 Posted 26/10/2017 at 21:14:29
304 Posted 26/10/2017 at 21:30:01
306 Posted 26/10/2017 at 21:53:07
307 Posted 26/10/2017 at 21:53:34
308 Posted 26/10/2017 at 21:56:15
If Bill Kenwright was still running the show on his own, I am pretty sure he would either appoint Unsworth, or someone like Dyche/Howe/Silva (if he could poach them);
Given that Bill Kenwright is certainly no longer running the show on his own, my hunch is that Farhad Moshiri will prefer someone with a better pedigree, like Ancelotti or Tuchel (if they're willing to listen to him, of course).
I am sitting on the fence on this one. The arguments against Unsworth, because he is untried, or that nobody with his profile has ever been successful, are not that strong. Not wishing to give examples from across the Park, Bertie Mee, if I remember correctly, was Arsenal's physio before becoming a very successful manager (no, I'm not suggesting we appoint the physio). But, a club's ambition is also shown by the sort of manager it appoints, or at least tries to appoint. I doubt if Tuchel would even consider us, and Ancelotti, I'm pretty sure, doesn't want to be bothered with a rebuilding job at an underperforming club. That, I think, will open the door to someone else from the Continent, perhaps Fonseca of Shakhtar Donetsk.
310 Posted 26/10/2017 at 22:08:39
Hope we try, though!
311 Posted 26/10/2017 at 22:16:56
In what way "not tough enough"?
Obviously you are questioning his mental/dealing with millionaire players toughness
For the other attributes, ask Mark Hughes, Wembley Stadium '95
313 Posted 26/10/2017 at 22:47:24
I'm sceptical about the prospect of any 'elite' manager getting us significantly further than Unsworth. We've just had a so-called elite manager, and he was shite. Klopp across the park is over-rated by the media, who fall for his showmanship, which also fits with their desperately clinging on to the idea that Liverpool are a top club, when in fact they have been also-rans for years.
Unless we get someone like Usmanov to provide the resources to attract top players, we won't get to the very top, whether we have an 'elite' manager or Unsworth. Rather than commit to paying an 'elite' manager mega bucks when there is large uncertainty about the extent to which he'd progress us, let's just give Unsworth a chance, and see how it goes, one game at a time. If it isn't working, then review the situation and act accordingly.
314 Posted 26/10/2017 at 22:55:21
Personally, I think he will do well and am really looking forward to the next few games when tteam selection is going to be fascinating.
315 Posted 26/10/2017 at 23:00:56
I profoundly hope that I am wrong because I would love to see a man of Unsworth's good character succeed. But he's expected to do so in an especially nasty environment and at a very nasty time for the club.
316 Posted 26/10/2017 at 23:08:23
317 Posted 26/10/2017 at 23:13:16
Yes, Unsy was complimentary of Kenny. I hadn't seen his comments when I posted.
I did notice on my stream, I heard Unsworth audibly say (it was picked up on the microphones) something akin to, "good ball Jonjoe" multiple times.
I think Unsy "likes" Kenny as a person and player. I've no quantifiable evidence to back that up at all. Just a feeling based upon multiple "atta boy(s)" I heard from him, and how he speaks so positively about the young man.
Here's the thing. I think he needs more experience. If Unsy trusts him, that's good enough for me. And quite honestly I thought the right mid for Chelsea - dude with the 'stache - was absolutely fantastic. So he was up against one hell of a player, and one I think (?) Chelsea just brought in, so the 70s porn-look-a-like was looking to impress. It was a difficult assignment for a young player in Kenny.
He did fine. He's got a future. He has to improve though. Settle down. Fluffing that golden opportunity with that shot as an example.
But under the circumstances he did just fine. Just has to improve.
318 Posted 26/10/2017 at 23:22:17
We didn't give up.
When we went down 2 goals late in the game, we didn't just pack it in. We didn't give up and say, "well, good effort let's get 'em next game."
We actually went and scored.
That's the commitment and effort and never-give-up attitude I want to see.
And I think that goal alone shows everyone that a David Unsworth lead squad will not lie down and quit.
And that's all I ever want out of my team. As Dory and Marlin in Finding Nemo said perfectly -
Keep swimming. Keep swimming!
319 Posted 27/10/2017 at 05:38:05
320 Posted 27/10/2017 at 07:46:58
Unsworth will get more backing and longer from the fans and therefore the board will get away with it for longer.
Harsh facts are we have not won a trophy since 1995 and do not look like competing at the top of the prem for the foreseeable future with current squad.
Kenwright is the real problem at our great club and we are kidding ourselves if we think it will change whilst he is still running things.
321 Posted 27/10/2017 at 08:25:41
I'm not sure that these highly paid geniuses have to do much more than keep a lid on things as most of the problems they encounter seem to be of their own making.
So many on here said you couldn't judge Koeman until he had his own team. And a load of shite that turned out to be !
322 Posted 27/10/2017 at 09:33:22
In some cases Guardiola, Conte and Mourinho this is more than justified, as they have achieved at different Clubs in different countries.
How many other pretenders are there? We have just got rid of one.
Let's face it, even the ones I mentioned as being the best, must have started somewhere, and probably not with instant success either, they have learnt as they have progressed.
I am all for giving Rhino a decent run at it, what have we got to lose? If we did appoint someone from outside, he couldn't do anything Rhino hasn't done with terms of motivation, look at the different attitude against Chelsea.
Besides, a new man always wants to build his own team, we have just overspent massively on some good, some bad buys. He would be tied until January the same as Rhino will.
Having said all that, despite the overspend, and mismatches, I think intrinsically we have a good group of players, with a couple of key areas addressed (striker and defence) in January, coupled with the introduction of our home grown talent, we will be more than okay.
An outsider too, would have little knowledge or compassion, about what Everton is all about, and fully understand what young talent we have, another reason why Rhino should be the Man for All Reasons.
323 Posted 27/10/2017 at 09:37:09
324 Posted 27/10/2017 at 09:44:20
Above all, he meets one key requirement: he wants the job. He wants it not for the money or as a stepping stone to greater things. He actually wants to be the manager of Everton FC.
325 Posted 27/10/2017 at 09:52:27
326 Posted 27/10/2017 at 10:15:07
Why get yet ANOTHER "TOP" manager who fails and takes his lottery winners bank account with him. I'd rather see someone who actually feels pride and excitement at being asked to do the job. Rhino did not need £6million a year wafting under his nose to make him interested.
327 Posted 27/10/2017 at 10:32:30
I will never give up hope of winning another league title but when we compare squads, and financial clout, against the top 3 (Man U, Man City and Chelsea) we havent got a snowballs have we?
Our best hope is cracking the second group but even that is looking like a distant dream unless Unsy becomes the next HK.
328 Posted 27/10/2017 at 11:07:54
We will be lucky to see a Derby win away for the next 30 years nevermind a trophy A massive club like ours even with a billionaire owner can be cast aside for clubs with no great history and smaller fanbase.
I will look for the article you mentioned. I love a bit of realism thanks.
329 Posted 27/10/2017 at 11:38:50
He came through the ranks, and left Villa, before he kicked a ball for them because he had a chance to rejoin the club he obviously loves. He turned Stubbs down, when he left for Hibs, probably because he was back at Everton?
Jamie C, I like your posts mate but the fella with the tash, was giving Baines the hard time, and I thought Jonjoe was well protected by Aaron Lennon, who must be great to play with from a defensive point of view.
I think Unsworth will like Jonjoe, because he can probably identify with him. A scouse kid who has been with the blues since he was 8/9 years old? Hard worker, doesnt hide, and most importantly doesnt look to pass the buck, which is also something Tom Davies, also possesses?
Hard work will always beat ability, but only if the hard worker also possess ability. I love the attitude of these young kids who are also full of honesty, and think they really need somebody like Unsworth, who appears the same way.
330 Posted 27/10/2017 at 11:59:25
331 Posted 27/10/2017 at 12:28:42
332 Posted 27/10/2017 at 12:30:20
Basically, Colin, it is difficult and improbable and unlikely...but it can be done. It has been before, it will be again. It can be done. On that happy May day in 95 Colin did it seem possible that the Foxes would win three major trophies including the league before we won a bean?
Did it seem possible when Southgate blasted over that would be the highpoint of the national team for 20 years and counting? Things can happen if you can catch lightning and believe. Unless, unfortunately, you have that sort of Moyes glass ceiling thing happening in which case no it can't.
333 Posted 27/10/2017 at 12:33:00
I wouldn't be upset if Unsy get the job and a plus is he would give more youngsters a chance as you point out in your post, I worry that whoever comes in has been left a very unbalanced squad by people who are supposed to know better.
334 Posted 27/10/2017 at 12:43:06
Whenever a Valencia, Seville, Villarreal, Dortmund, Leicester, Napoli etc... start to challenge the big boys what happens? The big boys just go and buy their best players!
I want long term, sustainable success and that takes time and money, lots of money.
335 Posted 27/10/2017 at 12:52:57
I still firmly believe there are players out there, who need someone to spot their potential, when they are relatively unknown, ie, Seamus Coleman.
Which brings me to Steve Walsh, I thought he was supposed to be the new Messiah of talent spotting, apart from free jollies abroad, I fail to see what he has added to the system.
I am not sure whether Lookman, who I think is a cracking player; and who can only get better; is attributed to Walsh; or one of the tea ladies who has a cousin in a similar job at Charlton.
I, like you was getting to the stage, where I couldn't be bothered about the next game under Koeman.
I am looking forward to the next game, more particularly who he selects, and furthermore what attitude those he has chosen, display.
336 Posted 27/10/2017 at 12:56:36
I think Dyche, would sort the defence out, and he looks like hes got similar values to Unsworth. People say his teams arent that easy on the eye? But you can only work with what youve got, and the fact that he brought Burnley, straight back-up, shows that he knows how to make his teams competitive. (Thats why I want him if its not Undies!)
Colin posts a lot of realism, but Im with Ash, and thats why I would prefer Unsworth, because of the work hes already done with our very good group of youngsters. I look at our accademy, and a lot of great work has gone on behind the scenes for years, with another boyhood blue, called Martin Waldron.
He got his chance because he took a talented group of kids into Bellefield years ago, and Everton wanted a few of his kids. He worked his way from there, right through the accademy, and its probable that Everton, have now got one of the finest academies in the country?
The reason Ive gone around the world is simple, its to say that sometimes its better to give your own people a chance, because if they get it wrong it wont be because of a lack of effort, and sometimes alls they need is a chance because they can do a better job than anyone else?
337 Posted 27/10/2017 at 13:21:33
David Unsworth will bring back passion to the cause and play with the youngsters but if he doesnt get the job permanently why not wait till the end of the season and go all out for Diego Simeone. I know he just signed a new contract but as we know, contracts mean jack shit these days. He still has to compete with the darlings at the Bernabeu and the Nou Camp.
I bet he isnt on much more or less than the Dutch fool was on plus the idea of roughing up the big boys here might be appealing.
I personally believe that Simeone is the best coach in the world. He has won La Liga and the Europa league with Atletico and gotten to two Champions League finals on a much tighter budget than the other big European clubs.
Plus he won the title in Argentina with two clubs, River Plate and Estudiantes.
He is also a coach who doesnt go on about fecking “philophosies” and plays it simple, keep it tight and counter quick against the big boys and dominate matches against the lesser teams.
Also Everton are like Atletico in that they have a horrible arrogant club as their city rivals.
Unsworth can be his assistant or on the first team coaching staff too.
But if Unsworth gets the job, I hope he does well and brings back the glory days.
338 Posted 27/10/2017 at 13:32:50
Apparently we have a load of shirts with his name and number 19 on them. :-)
339 Posted 27/10/2017 at 13:34:22
Its not easy when most of your players have got millions in the bank, but all the best managers, instil their own personality onto their team, and I just think Unsworths will, makes him the best man for the job right now?
340 Posted 27/10/2017 at 13:49:49
341 Posted 27/10/2017 at 14:13:35
Managers are not miracle workers and club owners have little patience when the results don't happen regardless of injuries and other bad luck stories. Most sacked managers will claim they could have turned things around given time but when relegation or even a mid-table position looms, the loss of profit becomes a big concern to the shareholders. There is no guarantee that a new manager, no matter of his pedigree will succeed so I assume Everton will be very careful this time.
The problem for Unsy and any other new man is the lack of a goalscorer. Rooney is arguably the only man with an eye for a goal but his best days in that department are gone although we know he may still grab a goal or two. Niasse, DCL, Sandro and Mirallas are not up to the task it seems although we could make a case for DCL.
Ross Barkley can score goals but his position remains unclear and who knows what Bolasie will be like when he returns? I am sure we can't wait for things to change for the better but we may still have to wait a couple of months.
342 Posted 27/10/2017 at 14:17:23
Since we won the FA Cup in 95, They've been in 3 League Cup Finals, winning one. They've won Promotion FOUR times...yeah they were relegated 4 times but In 27 yrs they've given the supporters something to cheer FIVE TIMES. Do we hate that 5 times thing? yes we do for a reason, but I digress.
What have we had to cheer about...We won a Semi and lost the final.
I had a discussion with an Ipswich fan back when Unsworth was on his short loan that fell through due to funding issues. He asked me about Rhino and potential management. I told him that with Unsworth, what you see is what you get and top, top, players mostly don't make good managers, so yeah, why not.
I've read stuff since...and I think it was Martinez who appointed him to coach the kids on the back of Unsworth's - and I hate to use the word - Philosophy.
I had hope (short lived) with Moyes, why not lets see with Martinez. Koeman; like many I believed (for 4 months) in the glamour of the name.
But with Unsworth, I actually think he has it in him to do something, something not seen for 30+ year...It will take time and luck, we all know we can't count on unlimited money...Fairy tale stuff, yeah I know. But fuck it, I vote Fairy Tale - and let the card fall where they will.
343 Posted 27/10/2017 at 15:07:53
I've never seen such praise heaped on someone who has been knocked out of a Cup. Carried away, much? At this rate, he'll be up for the Real Madrid job if we beat Leicester on Sunday.
344 Posted 27/10/2017 at 15:31:45
I guess it must simply be a case of wait and see what happens over the next few games with Unsy at the helm.
I can't help but sense that if we get a foreign name he'll be given money to spend in January but if Unsy is given it until the end of the season then he won't.
Does that make any sense ?
I also thought that Ross might put his head above water and say " let me sign a contract" ie make a statement
345 Posted 27/10/2017 at 15:35:38
We've been playing shite under a supposedly elite manager, and his predecessor, who also cost a lot. We could get another one in, but there's no guarantee he'd do much better than the previous two. It's a risk.
Unsworth is also a risk. But at least it's worth a go, at least in the short term, during which the situation can be reviewed, and someone else (another 'elite' manager) the brought in if necessary.
There's more than one way to skin a cat.
346 Posted 27/10/2017 at 15:51:52
We all have to judge him as we would any new manager though, we cannot afford to all go into Kenwright misty-eyed mode because he's 'one of our own.'
If he can turn around this slump with the players Koeman couldn't get playing, then he obviously has something we can all cling on to. Here's hoping.
347 Posted 27/10/2017 at 16:26:59
So we have to develop our own. Of course you cannot turn Niasse into Messi, no matter how good your coaching is, or how eager the young lad is. But Pochettino has shown the way into the top 4 at least. Bring through a load of top quality kids, add in a few promising young signings, and develop them slowly and with patience.
Do you recall in the summer, some were saying that Everton had stolen the march on Spurs. That we had signed a load of players to bridge the gap, and that Spurs had signed no one. They ended up getting in a couple (Llorente and Sanchez). Quite simply, they didn't need signings. They just needed to keep developing what they have.
Of course we do need signings. But we have a league winning youth side that included 5 kids that won the kid's world cup. It's safe to say that we should have a load of quality kids. The five were, as we all know, Calvert-Lewin, Lookman, Dowell, Kenny and Connolly. Add in Davies who is the same age, but deemed too important for that England side, Liam Walsh who had been England Captain but was out injured and Mason Holgate who was slightly too old, and suddenly we have 8 players that could be Premier League quality for the next 10 years or more. If they all do achieve their potential then we do not need to make a load of signings. We simply allow them to grow old together, bring through a few more, and bring in a big player or two each year, if the right guy is available.
This is the blueprint for the top. It's the only way that we, Everton FC, can win the league (barring a Leicester style season), and stay at the top (which Leicester couldn't). So, the board needs to ask themselves which manager out there is capable of doing this. For me there's only a few candidates, as this is a 5 year plus job, immediately ruling out the likes of Ancelotti and Allardyce.
I'd say Dyche, Unsworth, Tuchel, Nagelsmann, and Silva are the ones. But Unsworth should get first crack. Nagelsmann is almost certainly Bayern manager in the summer, and Dyche doesn't quite fit the bill. Tuchel is the only real alternative, and we would really need to persuade him to come.
There is another way to the top, of course. That's to do something similar to what Watford have done. They identify a manager to gain promotion, they did it and sack him. Then they get a guy in to keep them up, Job done and sacked. Then they get a guy in to get them midtable, job done and sacked. Now they have a top young coach and have aimed a little higher, and maybe he might get a bit of time. But we could follow this very short-termist approach, by getting in managers and players with a view to season-by-season goals. first, to push back up the table. Second to regain our slot as best of the rest. Third, to crack the top 6. Fourth, to break into the top 4. Fifth to win the league. Sixth to win the Champions League.
As someone said to me, Dyche is a great manager at what he does, but you wouldn't get the best kitchen specialist to build your conservatory. Is Dyche capable of getting us all the way to Champions League glory, probably not. Is Ancelotti capable of keeping us up on the final day of the season in a relegation dog fight? Watford's view is identify the task and get the right man in to achieve it, and keep resetting the goals and hiring the best man to achieve it.
Personally, though, I would follow the Pochettino method and build myself a young team that you can keep building up and up and try to mould them into a league winning side. That's what we did in the past. That's the Everton way.
348 Posted 27/10/2017 at 16:31:40
349 Posted 27/10/2017 at 16:38:11
350 Posted 27/10/2017 at 16:40:52
351 Posted 27/10/2017 at 17:13:03
The stability you suggest though is hard too find. Any manager you cite staying five years? In the current climate it is difficult to see. Should such a manager do very well in the first 2/3 years then Everton will lose them to a mega club, no?
Even within that cycle the manager has to be held to minimum expectations, I know that is contradictory but Everton have budgets to meet and we cannot finish lower than 7/8. Its just not acceptable. A prominent, well respected DoF directly accountable for on field results would help there hugely.
I agree we are in a position to profit from your notion at this very point, and maybe thats why Unsworth has big appeal? Our squad and academy is well stocked with potential. That hard bit of getting good youngsters has been done.
But the germ of that idea will never take root unless a clear organisational structure is outlined by the hierarchy.
The DoF needs to be a board appointment, the chief executive a more forward-thinking innovative position, a communications officer to promote & spin everything Everton. Oh, actually we need to know who is in charge!
As it is all board members and the largest shareholder get to hide behind the opaque veil of Goodison.
The vision you paint is one I could jump into feet first! At the moment the lack of organisational structure means that any manager will have both their hands and feet tied.
352 Posted 27/10/2017 at 17:15:52
Yes we have our own class of 92 and koeman tried his best to fuck them up unsworth knows all about them,in my view he is the best man to bring them into the first team and the future is ours
353 Posted 27/10/2017 at 17:35:35
I hope a number of our lads make the top grade but to get CL qualified on a consistent basis is either gonna take way more cash than has been spent to date or, without it, a manager with the magic touch. Do I like it? Not a lot!
354 Posted 27/10/2017 at 18:17:28
We need to be patient and Give Unsworth time and the players time. If Unsworth can be pochettino and the players are local lads, then we have more chance to stop them getting stolen away.
355 Posted 27/10/2017 at 19:19:39
356 Posted 27/10/2017 at 19:28:41
Oh, and he's real close with Joe Royle, so he's got experienced advice he'll willingly consider before finally making his own decisions!
357 Posted 27/10/2017 at 20:11:24
If I am right? How does this affect the next manager? And the one after that. Chances are if we spent £150 million in the Kenwright reign we would have signed players the manager wanted.
Now I know that wasn't the case and there was no DoF but that's my point. Koeman wanted Depay. Got Bolasie. I don't know how many times this happened during their time together but do we need more of this?
I always thought a Director of Football sort of undermines a managers role and if a manager doesn't want to be a workaholic I don't want that manager.
358 Posted 27/10/2017 at 20:43:15
As Colin said unless Usmanov comes on board we will not outspend at least three of the top 6 in which case develop our own top class players playing as a true team.
Okay it might well not work but I'd love to see us give it a real go. Get as many of the loanees back as we can: Walsh, Dowell, Robinson and one of the CBs plus poor Galloway who needs some TLC and start to build with Unsy the man in charge because he has brought them this far and knows them better than anyone.
I'm done with the "Spend, spend spend" philosophy of many supporters; as Colin says, unless you get the very best it doesn't work... and we need a manager who understands the club. Unsy for me!
359 Posted 27/10/2017 at 22:56:09
I was so impressed with the guy and felt as if JJK needs some "polishing" that I probably lumped the two together!
My bad... It's been a very long week.
Points regarding Kenny still stand... he'll come good in time. He looked rough to me.
360 Posted 27/10/2017 at 23:08:54
361 Posted 27/10/2017 at 23:13:22
362 Posted 27/10/2017 at 23:31:59
363 Posted 28/10/2017 at 07:14:25
I like Dyche but hes not for us surely. Strike me as being a Moyes school of management. Dour efficient stifling. 8 goals in 9 games this season from his Burnley team doesnt get may loins toasty.
I would narrow it down further to Unsworth or Benitez , or Benitez with Unsworth as his assistant. The Germans maybe too leftfield at this tricky moment.
I really think it is down to Our league performances .The next 2 games. If David can prove himself and get a couple of wins I think he will get the job and we will all be behind him. Its all to play for for him (and the players who want him to get it!).
If not it could be Benitez, best experience and a class manager.
Reading between the lines of his presser yesterday he has left the door open. He would prefer to live with his family on Merseyside. Calls us a “great club” believe it or not.
Probably the safest bet of whats on offer if DU falls short ?
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