Premier League — Matchweek 7

Villa 1-0 Brighton. Decent through ball on the right and square into the box for a Watkins tap in

Watkins again, some solo effort 2-0

9 man shite you can sense the heroic write ups can't you

Everytime I put my IPad on those bastards score and they just did again only in their own fuckin’ goal, that’s made me feel a bit better, but not much to be honest.!

No heroics thankfully Paul last gasp winner for Spuds. Which begs a question, when was the last time the four big NW clubs all lost on the same day, and if you include Burnley the last time all of the NW representatives lost on the same day in the top-flight?

Thankfully, Barry, and he didn't even need to play the ball.

You have to laugh. Red shite fan on 606, fair dos he's actually from Liverpool, complaining that the game is "corupt".

When was the last time both Merseyside clubs and both Manchester clubs all lost in the same day?

Singing the Blues tonight though - literally.
We really know how to stink the place out!!!

I logged in sure to see hundreds of post about how the game is rigged in favour of the “darlings” of the English game. Strange.

Only those oily London media fucks Spurs could do the most Liverpool thing ever to Liverpool. Doubt anyone else gets away with that one.

I sometimes get the feeling that it is, Shane, and now expect nothing but screams for the next few days because something has gone against the club with possibly the most ex-players working for the media?

I'm worried because Liverpool's next home game is against Everton, and someone will definitely receive a backlash after a few really bad decisions went against our neighbours today.

How can the VAR be used to tell the ref whether to have a look at possibly overruling a yellow card for a red card but not to check if a goal is offside or not? It doesn't make sense and brings the game or the match officials into disrepute; this is something many people have been questioning for years.

The squeaking hinge will be making loads of noise this week so hopefully the final outcome will be that these inept officials are made to explain their decisions.

I was listening to the radio phone-in after the game whilst I was going to pick up my daughter, when one desperate caller said, "Never mind Howard Webb, I can't wait to hear what Dermot Gallagher says on Monday." Then I began to realize why I can take it or leave it with regards to what football has now become.

Ah, Tony, I should never underestimate the ability of the ToffeeWeb contributors to turn an injustice to our great foes into a potential injustice against us.

With regards to the incident, I was watching and said to my mates that it seemed like a very quick decision and they also didn't show us the lines.

It seems bizarre for them not to check it and then equally bizarre for the ref to let it continue without the VAR saying so.

That may not be what happened. Carragher reckons that the VAR did look but completely missed the defender whoo was playing him on but I'm not sure where he's getting that idea.

The offside is the one easy part for the VAR. It's incredible that he can fuck it up.

Then again, it's all about the long game of the demise of Everton FC. 😅

I'm a bit tired, Shane, and I'm gonna go to bed now mate, but I genuinely don't understand what the demise of Everton has got to do with some very poor match officials, mate.

We have had some very bad decisions over the years, but so have most teams. A potential injustice just depends on how you view things.

We got a very contentious penalty at Anfield when Allardyce was our manager. Then, when we played against Liverpool again a couple of months later in an FA Cup game at the same ground, I thought they got an equally contentious penalty but obviously without the screams in the media.

Let's see if I'm right and let's hope that I'm wrong, Shane, with regards to that Anfield fixture. I won't be holding my breath. Hopefully something is done about some of these appalling referees who have become that bad at their job that questioning their integrity just seems like the most natural or logical thing to do.

No problem with that, Tony.

Officials are bad but, if this happened to Everton, or if Liverpool were on the favourable side of this decision, the number of posts on here would be many multiples of what they are tonight. That was my point.

I took your point, as being someone who was questioning if Liverpool are actually one of the darling’s of the English game, Shane!

Seriously, I hope something is done about these constant fuck-ups, especially because the only thing more silent than these referees, is the Everton board, with the common denominator being that they are all getting away with murder.

When Everton win, you don’t get as many people posting as when Everton lose, I think it’s just how this website goes?

Tony (various ) well Saudi Arabia are looking to take some English referees to their league, they can have most of them for me but the new ones coming in here will be just as bad, they are born that way, Bastards, as in the long time chant. “ The referee’s a Bastard”

Tony 15,

It's a form of catharsis to vent after a loss that's the reason bad results get more posts. Close inspection shows most say the same thing with different words hence genuine debate seldom results. It's just a coping mechanism.

The Diaz goal gets ruled out and now we have a VAR problem. These clowns have no idea how embarrassing their coverage is.

Funny thing about that disallowed goal, is that all the RS on the BBC HYS think the game should be replayed. They’re complaining that it could possibly dent their chances of winning the league, or a top four position. Even talking to one earlier on when walking the dog said the game should be replayed. They really are a different breed! There would be about a third of games every year being replayed if that was the case.

Was funny though!

Dale @18
According to Richard Keys, it took the officials at Goodison 03:20 to decide if there was offside or not, add this to the celebrations for the three goals scored in that half, and yet only five minutes were added at the end of the half, of course Luton didn't employ any of those time-wasting tactics did they?

Not that it would have mattered, as in front of goal we were mostly clueless, and even the goal itself was hardly a thing of beauty as welcome as it was at the time. Spurs - the aim of the officials was to keep the game moving, I wonder what the aim of the officials at Goodison was.

Rob and Barry, the US coverage spent a full ten minutes on this with the United meltdown on hold so you know it was for emphasis. This was an isolated focus not some overall review. Covering it like that does give an impression of ‘well, this is getting serious now that it has happened to the RS’. Supposedly, the cuprits in the booth just got back from a match they reviewed in the UAE or Saudi league They claim a correct determination was misunderstood in the comms between the booth and the on field official. Their line seems to imply they figured it out on the screen but the free kick was taken because of a comm breakdown

Dale, the VAR officials thought a goal had been given by the on field officials, but they somehow didn’t see the offside flag. So naturally, following a VAR check, they said to the referee “Check Complete”, and the referee naturally thought they were agreeing with the offside decision, whereas VAR were saying the goal was good. It didn’t need any lines to see the player was well onside. VAR should have said check complete and goal stands, but it’s a clear case of miscommunication between on-field officials and VAR.

Still funny!!

That was so close to being one of the great keeper blunders of the PL era.

I feel unclean, but I don't disagree with what Klopp came out with.

Only, and call me bitter, but I seem to remember a few weeks ago us getting an apology. We're sorry, but end of story.

They complain and officials are effectively demoted.

Meanwhile, interestingly, Dyche and Woan at the Forest v Brentford match toady.

Danny (24)I think they live close to Nottingham and are both former Forest players.

Danny (24)I think they live close to Nottingham and are both former Forest players.

Dave @25
They might end up residing in Nottingham permanently, if Everton's current home form continues.

13 minutes added on time

Another refereeing farce with no VAR intervention. Forest goalkeeper Turner loses ball to Wisa in the box then he trips Wisa. Should have been a pen and goalkeeper dismissal. No surprise that Tierney missed it but where were the VAR refs looking.

I’d love to know what percentage of football fans actually like VAR

USA USA USA VAR VAR VAR GET IN THE HOLE VAR VAR VAR TURNOVER USA VAR VAR IM DRESSED AS THE STATUE OF LIBERTY WE DEMAND VAR

Dyche has lived in and around Nottingham forever, like the other two in the baldy brains trust

Good to see one Evertonian winning big time this weekend.

Get in Tommy Fleetwood.

Oooohhh Tommy Tommy.

He could do with a haircut though.

Anyone else think that Tommy looks like Oddball from Kelly's Heros?

He looks like someone who could have been in Journey, Foreigner, Styx, Toto, or Bachman Turner Overdrive Stephen.

Apologies for the language, but what sort of sick bastard holds up a picture of kid who died extremely young of cancer to taunt opposition supporters?

Bradley Lowery's family will have no doubt seen that and all over the news this morning.

Everton were classy at the time. Having been the Sunderland mascot in our match at the Stadium of Light, we lead him on the pitch in his Sunderland kit as the Everton mascot. And we donated £200k towards his treatment.

I honestly don't understand the mindset of some people.

The RS response is indeed hilarious for its lack of proportion and its entitlement.

The VAR cock-up was simple human error, and had to happen at some point. But take away the VAR and that goal was disallowed anyway, because of, again, human error.

As for the red card, you can have your own view on that but I'd say it was absolutely correct. Bet it gets overturned though.

They should fine the club for the noise they're making. They got their apology, same as everyone else has when the VAR has fucked it.

Just do away with the VAR. It's killing the enjoyment of the game. The people running it are totally incompetent.

The Saudis are sniffing around our refs, let's hope they all take up the offer. Get European refs in. There's far too much familiarity with PGMOL.

I see the RS are pushing to have the whole thing raised in Parliament.

Incredibly terrible statement from the RS, as even Gary Neville has pointed out. After several paragraphs of hyperbolic bluster more suited to Putin than a football club, they conclude with "We will explore the range of options available, given the clear need for escalation and resolution".

My suggestion would be that they consider the option of withdrawing their team from the Premier League, and escalate the situation by invading Poland before the winter kicks in.

Michael # 42……….I’d love to know what options are available to them, because let’s be honest, there aren’t any. The VAR officials are removed for the next game week, that’s about it. No doubt the moaning RS will be out in force, complaining that all officials hate them, when in fact, we all know that it’s their team who get the most favourable VAR decisions out of every club. Be prepared to read about a petition, demanding either a replay, or the premier league awarding them the point(s). It’s bound to happen!!

I put the radio on this morning and it was being discussed on Radio4!! Christ, the Earth will spin off its axis if they don’t get what they want.
Even Shearer was at it claiming it was the biggest VAR mistake ever.
Actually, no one knows what the ramifications of this mistake will be until the season’s end, it could affect the final placing of both clubs but that’s in the future. Who knows?
The biggest VAR error was not to allow the ‘most blatant penalty ever’ (Shearer again) when Rodri handled the ball in our home match v City. That decision, and it was after a VAR review, denied us a penalty and if scored, what could have been the point to keep us up. However, it also gave City the victory and those extra two points meant that they finished above the RS and were Champions. I haven’t checked but that’s how I remember it. I don’t remember the Earth shattering clamour saying how hard done we were.

I don't think VAR has acheived what we were told was it was here to correct Clear and Obvious mistakes. The Offside against the Liverpool player was marginal either way and I have seen far more blatant breaches of the offside than this one.

But because its one of the supposedly top sides its highlighted to main news and other outlets that would never cover such things. So this is precisely why big clubs get most of the decisions in their favour, because refs know if they get any decision against a supposedly big club wrong they will be vilified, yet do the same against a bottom half club and apart from an odd comment on MOTD it wont be mentioned.

Again the decision for me was marginal not as if it was clear and obvious, VAR is now adjudicating on things it wasn't brought in for. At this stage its difficult to see FIFA or UEFA dropping it, so maybe we might have to change the offside law to say there has to be clear daylight between the attacker and the defender for it to be offside.

Brian, I think the error was not about whether or not it was offside, the error was that the VAR officials said "check complete" thinking the goal had been given, or forgetting that it hadn't been given. It was a stupid mistake, but hardly worth of the clamour that the RS and the media are making about it.

The fact is, all VAR mistakes are equal. So us not getting the goal given when Tarks was clattered by the goalie not the other way round earlier this season was equally wrong. A goal was denied in that case, and in the case of the RS, but the media (and Klopp) are going nuts about yesterday but not about us being robbed.

VAR is still human, and errors will be made, bad judgements made by the officials etc. My argument with VAR is not that human error is still inevitable, as are subjective calls, but that it takes so fucking long to call it. No VAR decision should take longer than 30 seconds, and if it's wrong, it's wrong, so what. The idea is to eliminate obvious errors, not nit pick.

A number of years ago linesmen ( lines people?) were designated assistant referees. So...there are three qualified referees on the pitch. They are, I believe, wired up to the 4th official.
So four people, who are in contact with one another, are unable to control and adjudicate a footy match ?
And, ultimately, it is not technology, but other human beings that have to.make the decision?
Can't we just go back to the baying mob in the Roman arena...maybe get David Walliams or Shirley Ballas to give a thumbs up. Or down

The mistake occurred too early in the game to be definitive about its consequences. Let's move on!

Did I hear Stephen Warnock right………….he said the referee should have called the two managers and two captains into his dressing room at half time, and explained that the goal should have been allowed by VAR etc, so what I’m going to do is give a drop ball, and that Spurs were going to let Liverpool score. What an absolute load of shite. Ok the goal was definitely onside, and should have stood, but you can’t come out some outrageous nonsense like that. Unfortunately, once play re-starts after a break in play, for whatever reason, that’s it, nothing can be changed, and you simply cannot go back and change the decision.

That’s unenforceable shite. I won’t have the sound on while that dude is talking.

no surprise to hear that the RS are appealing against the straight red card. You just know there'll be a cave-in, but it was a clear red to me - certainly not so obviously wrong that it should be taken away.

Incredibly stupid pundits making incredibly stupid comments, no surprise there then. It seems that our cousins have forgotten how many times the officials have given them the benefit of the doubt, particularly in that Covid season, week after week, they got a penalty or had an opposition player sent-off, or whatever other advantage that most teams wouldn't get in a month of Sundays.

Riley has been replaced by Webb, it's not really made any difference to Everton, we still have to wait with bated breath on every decision, particularly, those involving VAR.

I wonder if the other lot are a tad exposed because Old Mother Riley isn't there to protect and help them?

Why can Cricket/Rugby etc communicate directly with the paying customers i.e. the fans, whilst football is a closed shop, with no meaningful communication with those sat in the stadiums.

On Saturday, nobody around me at Goodison knew immediately what VAR was checking, we could guess, of course, but why did it take over three minutes to make a ruling?

The problem with the hub-hub that the media create when it involves the cousins, is that they'll now get the benefit of the doubt more often in upcoming games because PGMOL or whatever it's called don't want the bad publicity.

Alan @47.

For a few years now I have honestly been increasingly failing to understand the relevance of the assistant officials.

Even down to simple decisions like a throw in, they look nervously towards the Referee, waiting for his sly, side of the waist point in the direction he wants and then they put their flag up. Rather than them being the ones closest and making the Referee's decision for them.

And then that embarrassing experiment a few years ago in Europe having pointless other officials either side of the goal posts in European fixtures who didn't really do anything.

Football really does make a song and dance out of officialdom when it could be so simple with a bit of competence, transparency and accountability.

This is good. Ornstein stating at the top that the Shite's strong statement after the game was not going down well with other clubs. Might hit the sweet spot, bringing the VAR under scrutiny while showing the RS to be opportunists.

Dale, watching the Monday night football, and spit the dog was more like the fiery Welsh Dragon. You could almost see the fire and smoke bursting out of his nostrils with anger!

Rob, I’m hoping that Ornstein’s comment signals a change in perception for that club. They get a lot of calls and going over the top on a bad call at 34 shows no class.

On another topic, I think I'm glad we didnt get Broja even though that was offside ultimately.

Was a terrible miss, Dale. Think it took a little bobble before he hit it, but still should have found the net, offside or not.

The build up was different for the first, but similar finish Calvert-Lewin's against Villa that some called fortunate

Geez, Diop and then the Yank fucking it up. 0-2 Chelsea

Two goals in thirty seconds for Chelsea. Broja nets the second, after his terrible miss earlier on, even though he was offside for it. Mudryk got the first. Was that his first Chelsea goal?

Actually, Broja got lucky, as the ball was played against him by the Fulham defender and it just rolled into the net. Still, they all count.

Yes Rob, after 10 months. Diop is not at all reliable in back, just gave away a counter under no pressure.

Fulham slipping down the table

Ta da. That guy coming on.

Iowbi coming on.

Ooooooo, Alex Iwobi — crikey!

That's a red. And he's yelling at the ref.

The Mail reports:

John McGinn joked that Aston Villa's Castore shirts are still heavy following their 6-1 victory against Brighton.

Villa's women's team are said to be dreading their opening WSL fixture against Manchester United on Sunday because of fears over their 'clingy' shirts.

Male players are also understood to have complained to the kit manufacturer over the design of the shirts, claiming the heavy material increases their sweat levels and weighs them down in matches.

After the win against Brighton McGinn was asked on TNT Sports whether 'the shirt doesn't feel too heavy now', to which he responded: 'It's still heavy, don't worry about that.'

According to the Telegraph, Everton's deal with Hummel expires shortly and they are talking to – yes – you've guessed it Castore

As if our lot need any more excuses for failing to win at home.

Given our finances, we should take the pitch in hair shirts.

I'm trying desperately to think of an absolutely hilarious DCL Castore comment but I can't think of one.

Those Fulham centre-backs are retarded today.

I hope Fulham wave to us when they drop past us in the Premier League table.

Iwobi added nothing. £22M was a very good piece of business.

It was damn fine business.

Seriously, Dale #70,

'Retarded'...?

Honestly, mate, Farkov Redz immediately springs to mind.

You're much better than that!

Seconded, Brendan,

Dale, you ever think that someday you may have a relative born with developmental challenges? Or that other people on here might?

As Brendan says, you're better than that.

I couldn't edit the lower response. Tell you what, I've read much worse here without challenge from either of you but I will stop using that term. I am all for higher standards if evenly applied.

I simply must have the insult ‘retarded’ in my football commentary toolkit. It’s in my uncompensated intern contract. I don’t know who told you I was better than that.

And on a totally different note - a Wednesday fan will be sentenced on 17 November for goading Sunderland fans with pictures of 6-year-old Bradley Lowery who died from Neuroblastoma.

The photo in the report is of Jermaine Defoe carrying Bradley, both wearing their Sunderland shirts. On the back of little Bradley's was the message "Thank you, Everton".

Things like Saturday frustrate you but photos like this remind you that we support a great club.

Reading the news of Francis Lee's death today I learned that he was born in Westhoughton. I went to grammar school in Wigan and folks from Westhoughton were cow yeds which was not a compliment. Supposedly a farmer cut off a cow's head when it was stuck in a fence.

Ed @79,

A lad I used to work with was from Westhoughton, he was a grand lad and a true blue to boot – I wonder how he's doing these days.

I liked Franny Lee as a player, even if he was the first to actively seek penalties, which he usually converted. RIP Francis.

Barry @ 80;

Very delicately put and I agree ,he was a cracking player RIP.

Thanks, Dale #76,

I challenged you on this particular issue because I have been fortunate/unfortunate enough to have experience of this in my life.

Feel free to call me out at any time in the future & I hope to respond as graciously as you.

Told you, you were better than that.😊

I can't remember who started the joke, but a comedian said he thought Man City had a Chinaman playing for them, because when their results were in the newspaper, it always mentioned Lee 1 pen.

Thanks Dale, wasn't trying to pile on but it's a sensitive term for many.

Brendan, having been one of Farkov's serial targets and victims, I agree in sentiment but please don't even begin to compare Dale – who, from what I can tell, is a thoroughly decent human being – to Farkov. They are worlds apart.

A slip of the tongue from Dale is in no way comparable to what I was subject to on Saturday. Let's not use Farkov to jump on high horses. There was no need at all to mention him when giving Dale a slap on the wrist.

Okay Brendan and Neil,

Honestly I was about to get pissy over that 'Farkov' reference but this is obviously a real issue for you both and I accept your tap on the shoulder. Not only do I accept it, I appreciate it.

After looking it up, I understand some view it as a form of hate speech as well. We all love our shitty little jokes and that is no big deal until someone hears it from an affected perspective. It takes courage to call it out and well done for that.

And I fully understand that I can't expect others to do anything. The Live Forum is safe from my puritanical rule.

And thanks, Paul, you know me well but it really wasn't a slip. That was a hangup of mine.

Dale,

If we ever find ourselves in the same place, the drinks are on me.

I missed the whole Farkov thing (but read about it), certainly wasn't comparing you to anything on that level.

Thanks, Neil, and not to be a pain but can I use ‘fuckwit'?

Paul #85,

I don't normally follow the Live Forum but I did on Saturday as I was travelling. It was shocking and you in particular were subjected to some pretty vile abuse.

Of course Dale is a million miles away from that low life... otherwise, I wouldn't even have engaged with Dale.

However, as Dale himself has acknowledged, it wasn't a slip: 'retarded' was in his football 'commentary toolkit'.

It isn't now... that's a win-win.

I have a lovely niece with Down Syndrome and to be honest Dale it's only since she came into the world that I realized how that term can be so harmful. Now I'm very mindful of it but, as I say, 15 years ago it wasn't really in my vocabulary but I was a little naive as to how it can be used and understood to be extremely nasty.

As for our “friend” Farkov, me might have to add that lunatic's names to the code of conduct as an insult that's beyond the pale. Rather like being an RS.?

Cheers Brendan, it's a good resolution all round. All the best!

Dale, I prefer 'fuckwad' myself, but each to his own.

Certainly not a language cop here, as young kids we used to call those 3-wheeler cars you'd see around Liverpool "spazz chariots", and use terms like "mong" etc. Doubt I'm the only one here that did so.

As Kieran points out above, life is for learning, and I'm not proud of things I've said in the past before I knew better.

I must admit I wouldn't have thought of Dale's comment as offensive until I read the follow-ups but I do understand now. I too have used the words Neil quoted in the past but we're all becoming better educated, in this case by ToffeeWeb!

My missus bollocked me recently when I asked her if she fancied a takeaway from the chinky? Now I really didn't connect that with racism – it's just what we called the Chinese chippies when I were nobbut a lad.

Dale, the term "fuckwit" ( which is amongst the very few swear words I have been known to use on rare occasions) apparently actually originated in Australia according to their National Directory
"The entry for fuckwit (p. 647) includes the note:"

"Used elsewhere but recorded earliest in Australia
That’s right. Australia is the home of the fuckwit. The earliest citation in the AND and the Oxford English Dictionary is from Alex Buzo’s 1970 play The Front Room Boys. The earliest non-Australian citation in the OED is from a 1992 article in Making Music magazine from America."

It refers to those who do stupid things and continue to do so despite repeatedly being made aware of the error of their ways
Having spent many years in Brisbane I obviously picked it up as a consequence of dealing with those who never listen, it's almost a term of endearment there!
Highly appropriate in the description of our club management in my opinion.

R.I.P. Francie Lee. At university in Manchester in the early 70s I'd toddle off to watch Citeh quite often. Superb side, fecked up by Allison when he bought Rodney Marsh.
Lee would have had the VAR short circuited with his antics.
And who knew there was so much money to be made in lav paper ?

I just read, they need to do away with VAR.
In the Spurs v Lpool game, Diaz was flagged offside by the linesman.
So without VAR, that decision would still stand, offside.
You cannot have it both ways.

If a public explanation about the decision was made to the watching fans at the ground and tv, as they do in other sports,then this mistake would never have happened. Why have football supporters got to be left in the dark.

John...that lot can and will have it any way they can. I would bet my pension that they've investigated having the game replayed. Whinge long and loud enough

If the rs kick up a stink about VAR the chances are good that we might rid ourselves of this expensive disaster. Keep goal line technology by all means but VAR is killing the game and destroying already pathetically inept refs.

Goodbye Frannie Lee. A fantastic little goal scorer who I remember in his heyday. And he could pack a punch as well. Just ask Norman Hunter

Liverpools club statement included the following………….

The club called for a "review with full transparency" and added they will "explore the range of options available given the clear need for escalation and resolution".

The major word……”Resolution”. In other words, a decision that satisfies them. The only two possible outcomes that satisfies them will be a replay, or the award of a point, but would that mean taking two points off Spurs?

Rob. There won't be a replay or points alteration no matter what the shite say, I guarantee that.
It would open the biggest can of worms ever and allow teams who've had apologies in the past (us for instance) to revisit the result or whatever.
No, I'm glad to say that the shite will just have to grin and bear it, oh and organize the marches, and print the t shirts, and go on about it until they win the prem again, which hopefully will be long after I've gone!
But I'm not bitter, mind.

As others have commented had football followed what Rugby and Cricket do were the crowd can see what they are looking at and can hear what they are saying this mix up would never have happened. Because the on field ref would have said to the video ref it actually looks like he is on side to which the video ref would have agreed.

But because bye and large most Premier league refs are awful they don't want you to hear their conversations as it would just highlight how incompetent they are. Oh and if the fans in the ground could see and hear what was going on there wouldn't be that rush to make a decision, but when your sitting in the ground and can see or hear nothing and the VAR review goes on for 3 or 4 minutes or longer no wonder the fans get agitated. Howard Webb can stop all this nonsense by announcing from now on the fans will see and hear the conversations. I cant see an argument for this not happening.

Brian, I totally agree, there will definitely be no replay, etc. That's not what I was implying will happen, but it's what they want to happen.

There are far too many instances going back since the VAR was introduced, to possibly name them all, but one in particular was last season, when Crystal Palace played Brighton. A goal was wrongly ruled out for, I think it was Palace, for offside, and those lines they use were wrongly placed. Did Palace kick up a fuss, demanding they be given the goal, given the three points, or demand a replay? Did Sky or the BBC even go on about it, the way they are with the shite goal?

As you say, it's tough shit, shit happens. We all know it was a monumental error, (😂😂😂😂😂😂), but there is Sweet FA they can do about it!

What they will do though is kick up a massive stink about it and put pressure on the next referee to take charge of their games.

Every decision will be ultra scrutinised, they will make the next and possibly future officials very nervous.

Dave (104).

And look who they play in their next home league match…

Simon Hooper, the referee at Spurs on Saturday, will be the VAR for our game on Saturday.

Well, he dare not Fuck Up!!

Chris.
The way we're playing we'll need divine intervention to get a result mate.

There'll be nothing more than an apology. Not least because the linesman flagged it offside, so the VAR just confirmed an error rather than turning a decision around incorrectly.

They need to wind their necks in, they're just making twats of themselves again. This reminds me of the Suarez nonsense. I still can't believe that scousers would defend a racist. Possibly the most ashamed I've ever been of my home city.

They actually shouldn't be allowed to call themselves Liverpool because of the shame they've brought to the name of our city over the years. And, yes, I am bitter.

Seems like Klopp has a moan about something every week. It seemed like a big booboo by the VAR although having watched it over and over it could be that an arm came into play.

However, he doesn't mention much about the two red cards to his two players who overstepped the mark and one wonders if he had said anything at all if RS had won the game.

We Evertonians know all too well all the good decisions that went in RS favor particularly in derby games.

Let's all get behind Liverpool Football Club on this one, and try to help them get rid ofthe VAR, especially because they will suffer more than anyone if this came about. 🤞

Thanks, Kieran and again Paul, who I think was willing to shepherd me through if I went the wrong way there.

We'll said at the end, Neil, and with your looking the other way I think I will go with ‘fuckwit'.

Christine, I got that phrase from an underground NZ compilation of bands. It seems to be a low rent standard from the look of past posts.

Yay. Thanks for saying something but you didn't have to let me go on with that ______ American English football friend routine. Sorry bout that.

If I hadn't have heard it first-hand from the Premier League's own website I would have thought it was a parody account. Who are these people and how do they qualify to sit in judgement on a million-pound game?

VAR audio link for Spurs v L'pool

I dread to think what the audio sounds like of that hand ball by Rodri at Goodison two seasons ago. Wonder if the RS dig for that as City won the league on the final day.

This is going to open up a whole can of worms.

They sound like they are playing each other on the PlayStation, after smoking loads of green, Barry H.

Tony @114,

That's so funny! I thought they were witnessing a real-life emergency of epic proportions, rather than trying to decide if a player was offside or not.

It’s hilarious until you realise that football fans all over the country are getting absolutely fucked by these incredibly inept charlatans.

I can imagine someone somewhere has lost a lot of money because of this decision, and the same thing is happening every single week. On the plus side it’s probably helped others win a fortune!!

Brian H, has already called it, these decisions should be explained by the officials, right away.

Barry (112),

Ridiculous, did I hear that right after they talked it through and agreed it was a goal, then trying to get it confirmed that it was a goal but couldn't “Oh it's too late, we can't do anything about it!”

Parody account is right, sounds like Monty Python and his Flying Circus.

Aha! Napoli hired Rudi Garcia. I may have to cheer against Carlo.

Forget about who is involved, that's disgraceful. They made a mistake, realised it straight away and, through cowardice, didn't admit to it at the time.

We would all see this in our jobs. "Bad news doesn't age well". If they'd stopped the game and acknowledged the error, and there was a clear opportunity when the ball went out of play without further incident, then there would have been a furore but nothing like this.

Incredible that PGMOL say that protocol didn't allow it. There's no protocol for this – common sense and integrity should have taken over. The response required here was obvious if the culture in the VAR team was even halfway decent. It throws a new light on how the VAR operates. They're not there to make good decisions. They're fearful and crippled by what they think is protocol.

The VAR team can't overrule their own "clear and obvious error". Bullshit.

And yes, I want to hear the Rodri audio too. They had the option to do the right thing, and they chose not to. I'd like to know why.

Ernie @119,

Perhaps it needs another VAR team to oversee the match VAR outfit. But of course, you're correct, they could easily have informed the referee to halt proceedings and explained that the call should have been a goal awarded to the away side.

Thinking about that audio again, I think the clubs should tell the Premier League to bin VAR completely as from tomorrow onwards. All teams will have played the same number of fixtures and therefore it wouldn't disadvantage any club.

Better still, the Premier League itself should cancel VAR for the remainder of this season, until such time as the bods who run it are proved capable of doing their jobs in a more efficient and level-headed way. They could carry on having VAR at the matches but for training purposes only.

Burnley leading at fucking Luton! How the hell did we lose to this team at our own turf!?

They will go down with 2 wins all season. Both against Dyches Everton.

I'm sorry but, if there was no VAR, the linesman's decision would have stood and he was offside.

This has been going on for years but, just because it's them, there is a real hullabaloo over it.

The most corrupt officiating ever was the Clattenburg derby which was quickly put aside so that shower need to recognize that more goes for them than against them.

I'm watching that game, Soren.

Luton are fucking hopeless. Hang your head in shame, Dyche.

Jay @123,

I agree, but how would we have felt if a similar situation had arisen at Goodison against Bournemouth last season and it resulted in our being relegated?

Exclusive - first picture of VAR officials on duty at White Hart Lane

Source: Grand Old Team.

Just watched the 1st half of Napoli vs Real Madrid. Some fabulous team football from Napoli and some world class moments from Vinicious and Bellingham.

It feels horrible to admit it, but I don't think Everton have ever been further from the elite clubs than we are right now. Our level of football is so poor in comparison.

Jay #123 - after that game Moyes was put on a charge for his post-match comments, and it was quietly dropped without explanation.

I actually met Clattenburg at an event in the Middle East a few years ago and asked him about that game. His view was "I had a 'mare" but on specific issues:
- He didn't let Gerrard influence him sending off Hibbert (I don't believe that)
- He should've given Kuyt a red card
- He should've awarded a penalty in the last minute when Spit the Dog wrestled Lescott to the ground.

Doesn't change the record books.

On the current incident, my view it was a screw-up through a loss of concentration – that information came out immediately after the match and the audio confirms it.

An "innocent" mistake, but because of who it's against, it's the end of the integrity of the game. Despite all the other screw-ups since its introduction.

It is sad to accept the pathetic excuse of a football team that our Toffees have become. Burnley show how to beat a team like Luton although they were under the cosh for quite a while.

Luton just throwing in the high balls for their big guys to attack which they capitalized on against a hesitant Everton defence.

Goes without saying that another inept performance in the next game will see Dyche getting a yellow card or maybe a red.

Jay, I think it's fair to suggest that the VAR has affected on-field decisions.

I see fewer decisions being made on fouls in the box, particularly from corners. And I definitely see offside being called more often.

It shouldn't impact things but it does. Then they go to the VAR to figure it out. It's impossible to know if the linesman would have flagged for that goal in the pre-VAR era.

The only thing I know for sure is that the VAR isn't working. It never did, but now they're having to publicly disclose why. It's because nowhere in the implementation did they ever say "we want to make the right decisions". It's fundamentally not there for that. It's there to protect officials.

The referee shat out of giving handball against Rodri safe in the knowledge that the VAR would look at it and absolve him of any responsibility for making a huge call.

The VAR looked at it and decided that it wasn't "clear and obvious" so the cowardly decision actually gets supported. The referee gets protected. If it was there to reach the right decision, then it would be obvious what to do.

Protocol. For fuck's sake, the answer in this situation was so obvious.

Paul, come on proportion:

(1) My sympathies and I hope that you are fully recovered.
(2) How on earth could Dale have known that but you "use" it against him as if he did?
(3) "missile" is a completely acceptable term and I used it myself a couple of times on the Live Forum this weekend, and lastly, and most importantly.
(4) I'm not at all disrespecting your personal experiences and I wish you all the best, but that comment to Dale was somewhat unfair.

Dale @132, Paul @ 139.

Apologies if my comment was taken out of context. It was meant to be light hearted. Following Everton during my military service so often provided a welcome distraction from things. Maybe 43 years was too long and I'm a bit out of touch, it's probably best that I rarely post.

That commentary just confirms to me what I suspect. Our game is governed by incompetent officials, whichever way you look at it.

With or without the VAR, we'd still be having the same debates that we've had since forever.

I reckon they'd gone to the coffee machine for a chat and missed it!! I believe Rugby video assistants are mostly located in the stadium, not in some plush office 3 miles from my house near to the Marks & Spencer HQ. Maybe that makes a difference because they are there and more focused?

Watching the news this morning, it is being portrayed as a heinous crime against the cousins and has generated over-the-top press coverage. As always they are outraged. Suck it up and dry the eyes. You've had enough favourable decisions over the years. Pre and post the VAR.

"Worst officiating decision of all time" was the cry on the BBC. "Farcical blunder"

Do me a favour. Hand of God? Some are behaving like this has never happened before. Germany could demand a replay of the 1966 World Cup Final? Every time I see that footage, it isn't a goal and modern goal-line technology would have ruled it out. The VAR would have ruled out Maradona's "goal".

We could go back to injustice way before the VAR and goal-line technology, as I'm sure supporters of other clubs could. Until we improve the standard of officials, it won't matter whether they are on the pitch or providing video technology assistance.

I am an advocate of the VAR as I got fed up with incompetent decisions on the pitch over the years. Unfortunately, football has royally cocked it up, so if we scrap it, we may possibly be back to the days of the Clive Thomas and the 1984 League Cup Final, amongst others I could rattle off.

Six and half a dozen, as the saying goes. Nothing is 100% certain.

This will go two ways. Either there is a serious effort to properly introduce the technology and improve the standard of officials, or they get their way and it's abandoned.

Back to the days of penalties in front of the Kop because they scream and shout at star-struck referees. The likes of Hibbert getting sent off because Gerrard didn't agree with the yellow and got in the Ref's face and got him a red. I could go on.

Morning ramble, but my main point is the standard of the officials, not the VAR.

Paul Morrison, don't think you need to apologise for your comment. I saw it as a light-hearted comment although I imagine the real experience wasn't!

I imagine there's many ToffeeWebbers who could recount their experiences of following Everton whilst on military service. Would make for an interesting read.

Danny, it's not about the standard of decision making this time. The decision making was fine - he wasn't offside and they found him to not be offside.

The issue is that they still couldn't get the right decision onto the pitch. And then they covered it up.

They refused to stop the game, didn't release any images, waited until an hour after the game to release a half arsed statement designed to cover up what had actually happened before finally being caught out when the media released whispers about what had actually happened.

They've lined themselves up behind this "laws of the game say we couldn't stop it". How long did it take PGMOL to decide that was their protection? Certainly there were some who wanted to stop it originally. We all heard that. And the laws of the game say you're not offside if you have two opposition players between you and the goal. Make a choice - if they made the obvious one there'd be criticism of the process but at least the right decision would be reached. I don't know any organisation that wouldn't stop and quickly escalate that kind of significant error for a decision - but in football the VAR rules are apparently all powerful.

You have to wonder how other decisions that we haven't yet been party to have been reached. I very much doubt this is a one off. There's always been great protection around the process... are we now seeing why?

I don't understand how anyone doesn't see this for what it is. It's not a "these things even out" kind of error. It's incompetence followed by a conscious decision to cover up. It's there later that is an absolute scandal... nothing over the top about it.

Perhaps, some welcome news in what seems to be a daily dose of bad news. The new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock may get the chance to host some International games in the 2028 Euro competition. That's assuming the new place is completed, or even if Everton in its current guise exists.

The five-nation bid is now the only option on the table for the finals in 5 years' time after Turkey pulled out of contention for the 2028 finals to focus on a joint bid with Italy for Euro 2032.

Uefa will formally announce the hosts for the two tournaments following a meeting of its executive committee in Switzerland next week.

Uefa issued a statement on Wednesday morning which read: “Further to the announcement on July 28 which revealed the desire of the Italian and Turkish FAs to submit a joint bid to stage Uefa EURO 2032, the Uefa administration has today written to both associations to confirm that their joint bid has been duly received and will go forward for assessment and consideration by the Uefa executive committee.

Source: The Guardian

The original mistake in that 'infamous' incident, is how did the on-field linesman come to the conclusion that there was an offside at all, it didn't seem to warrant a flag in the first place.

Jürgen Klopp has called for Liverpool’s game at Tottenham to be replayed after his team were on the wrong end of a VAR error during their 2-1 defeat.

Liverpool had a goal wrongly ruled out for offside with the game goalless and on Wednesday Klopp said: “I think the only outcome for the Tottenham-Liverpool game should be a replay.”

He conceded, though, that such an outcome was highly unlikely: “It probably won’t happen. I think it is so unprecedented; it didn’t happen before.”

Why call for it then? You Muppet! Perhaps, Everton should call for the 1985/86 European Cup to be replayed - It ain't gonna happen, but you know, just putting it out there!

What about our goal against Fulham that was wrongly ruled out?. Can we replay that then?

this must surely bring the Clive Thomas debacle back onto the table.

The most Liverpool thing ever. The club should distance themselves from Jurgen's embarrassing ravings. But from the club that defended racist Suarez, it's par for the course I suppose.

That club are so up themselves that they are unaware of the many errors of officials and VAR in so many matches. It won't be replayed -it would set a dangerous precedent. Klopp is piling pressure on officials to be very kind to the redshite for the rest of the season. He is a calculating monster of manipulation.

I just hope that every time the RS get a dodgy decision, every journalist asks Klopp whether the game should be replayed

Michael @151
Going on past incidents, going against the neighbours, we might have to wait some considerable time before that question is posed.

Paul (Morrison), please post more often. And I apologise for what I now think was an over-reaction on my part and not seeing the light-hearted touch there. To be honest, my reaction in part had nothing to do with you but was made hot on the heels of a smilar comment to Dale. I very much respect your service Paul.

Just watched the Klopp interview. Never wanted to put my foot through a TV screen as much.

Paul 137, please stay. As you can see above I desperately need others with colorful comments for cover. By the way, I am quite comfortable in my own skin and thus hard to offend on a personal level. Always go for taking the shot if you have a good line in there, extra points for puns. Don’t be shy, celebrate the show that is TW and chip in.

Chip isn’t a pejorative of any sort over there is it? Ok then.

Kevi (148) My thoughts exactly.

Klopp doesn't want the game replayed. He just wants the whole saga to be fresh in the minds of all the officials so that the shite get the benefit in upcoming games.
He knows those officials on field and on VAR duty will be shitting themselves if they have to give a decision against the shite.

Off topic but since the old room for random chats is gone: FIFA will have the first three games of the 2030 world cup in South America, the the remaining games played in Spain, Portugal and Morocco which I am sure will be lovely in the summer as it doesn't get hot at all in North Africa com e June/July.

This is what happens when greed means we have a 48 team world cup of which maybe 6 teams have a realistic shot of winning. So no one country nor even continent can really afford to host it.

Paul 140

I was in the Falklands earlier this year. Now I know just how remote it really is, it amazes me that we managed to send a significant military force down all that way and actually win it back. Not something I suspect we could do or would do nowadays but on the other hand, I don't think Argentina is in any position to try again anytime soon (I went there too).

I learned a little from the history first hand, including tales from the guy who was broadcasting on Argie radio on the day they stormed into his studio. I also hear it was a lot closer run thing than some appear to think, not least having no helicopter cover and that the Argie RAF was far from useless.

I can't quite put my finger on why, but I was really quite emotional as we sailed into Stanley. I guess it's just knowing what went before. I also hope you stay on here. It can get a bit heated at times, partly because things can be misconstrued with with very few, if any exceptions (OK, maybe 1), people's hearts are in the right place. After all, they support EFC...

Brian 157. Spot on. Best thing that's happened to them this season

How long is this going to rumble on for? Three years after St. Virgil was injured in an innocuous collision with Jordan Pickford, the RS still go on about it. This latest episode where the shite feel hard done by, will rumble on for years.

Sorry Jurgen Klopp but when are Everton getting Merseyside Derby replays for referees' blunders?

Brian @ 157 exactly. It's tantamount to match fixing

Brian W, spot on

Klopp going all FAI/John Delaney'Thiery Henry looking for a replay - priceless.

Brian # 157…………the upcoming derby game at Analfield, would be the perfect opportunity for the premier league to bring in officials from abroad. In fact every red shite game for the rest of this season should be officiated by officials from abroad.

Rob @168
That might work, so long as they don't fly in from Oslo

Paul, I totally get it.

Likewise, I've had to wait for Everton's results in some locations around the globe. News coming through on crackly radios in places like Bosnia, the Middle East and Helmand Province Afghanistan!

It still meant the same as being at the match.

I too find myself more and more reflective as I get older. I'll probably never get to go back to some of those places, not that I'd want to, although Bosnia and Croatia were beautiful countries. Just sad what they had done to themselves.

I was also in Northern Ireland, although that was like being home apart from the thrown rocks and mortars.

Back on topic, I see he's off again. No way are they getting a decision against them this weekend. And as pointed out, we've got the Ref who was on Lucifer's turf on VAR. You can't make it up.

The Falklands was an amazing feat. 8,000 miles away