Delph adds to injury concerns

Jesus, we're screwed!

I always resist from making judgments on areas of the game I know nothing about but this injury plague is becoming harder not to question. Liverpool's recruitment of players of not only talent but of players with great stamina and durability is beyond question a clear reason for their success.

Liverpool, knowing that the game is there to be won, probably had more incentive to keep in condition. Our players, however, were probably more 'switched off'.

Oh how I would love a Lance Armstrong style scandal to engulf that club just before the derby!! Wouldn't that be sweet!!

We can only dream, meanwhile imagine our injury list when we start playing?

The club has been wretched for years now, nothing ever changes. There are people missing James McCarthy (for some reason) – why I don't know as he was always injured or getting booked.

I won't be surprised if Carlo walks at the end of the season, as it could damage his reputation, as the Moshiri project is too big a task. Millions has been spent but nothing has changed, apart from losing ground on Wolves and Leicester.

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but let's face it, we will be torn apart in the derby as Liverpool win the title in front of the empty wooden seats of Goodison Park.

That's got me right in the mood for this match!!

But seriously, I agree with the main gist of what you're saying, we seem to be trapped in a never-ending vicious circle of gambling on promise (where do I start?) and proven but injury-prone (where do I start?).

Even not long after our successful period in the late '80s, we were gambling on Norman Whiteside. Norman was an excellent player but no other top 4 to 6 clubs were going near him.

We could name a starting 11 of crocks who could win the league from that point to today. I gave you Whiteside, then sometimes we have both the exciting prospect who is always injured and never fulfills his potential. How about a front two of Ferguson and Yakubu?

Adrenian was called back up to first-team training. I'm assuming Beni was as well as we seem really light at the minute in centre-midfield

I'd be surprised if either of them two won't be available for the derby as they epitomise the full-throttle super-fit player Liverpool have many of.

This seems to show we are the worst for injuries.

I was behind the Park End goal for that game and, as I remember it, Sandy Brown reacted to something that Giles did or said as they tangled on the edge of the penalty area.

My abiding memory was of the scything tackle that Willie Bell made on Derek Temple, in front of the Paddock, I expected Temple to be on his way to Walton Hospital for treatment. To say that I was surprised to see Temple return when play was resumed, would be an understatement.

Giles had the reputation of being one of the most sly and nasty players in the game and, to rub salt into the wound, Bell scored the winning goal.

But he's now just morphed into yet another midfielder who drains the life out of me when I see him named. He's not turned out to be a good fit for us. Some fit, young aggressive replacements needed urgently.

Before my time but I have heard Giles speak of this a few times and I felt he was pushing his 'I done nuttin' side a bit too strongly! In fairness, he spoke very well of Everton during his interview tonight, even if his best Everton team formation selected was a bit suspect. Full interview here, just select the Johnny Giles Podcast. https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts

Back on topic, Delph being injured won't have surprised many.

Is any one surprised Delph is unfit? I doubt it it.

Hopefully in the next week, the injury blight will even out with the RS missing key players...

Terrible to be relying on fate and Lady Luck and then, even if the case, their kids would have a very good go.

Will the RS be rusty too, even rustier than the Everton team that turns out?

Beni, Onyango, Adeniran, Simms, Gordon, Branthwaite, etc. at least from the bench in the 5 sub era! Experiment a little with the first 11. Holgate and Iwobi in the middle would be nice to see (if no Gomes), but Branthwaite may be too big a risk. Maybe give Baines a go there - what's really to lose? Can't do worse than Sigurdsson and Davies as a centre-midfield pair.

Pickford
Coleman Keane Holgate Digne
Richarlison Iwobi Baines Bernard
Kean Calvert-Lewin

With the kids on the bench.

I was under the impression that the players were supposed to keep up with a fitness regime under instructions from the fitness staff during this pandemic... sounds like some of them were not doing as much as they should have, and have been pushed too hard to get ready for the continuance of the Premier League.

I just hope that any new signings are fully investigated on their previous fitness and we stop signing players with dubious fitness backgrounds.

I'm afraid I agree with the pessimists above and with some disillusioned comments on other threads. I'm closer than I've ever been to letting the club recede in my priorities and I've decided not to watch any of our remaining games, as a very small protest against the whole pantomime.

Yes, funny that I had Saha in my initial superb but always fucked forward line-up but thought games played / per time at club??

What about midfield then? If you want to go down the "We are fuckin cursed" avenue, I will give you Paul Bracewell – do you want to raise me?

By the way, Paul, I haven't got a clue about cards either, it just sounds good.

It shows how bad we are, if just one of those got injured, you'd say no big loss – and we have four (?) of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLfPrLOPVvg

Roll on next season when we can experience proper competitive football and Carlo's experience and nous! The 2019-20* season means fuck all!

Glad we got Delph who did put in performances when he played, and contributed to points. Could have been worse, Saha and Rojo would have driven us all completely mad.

What I think happened is that one of the linesmen became the ref and the Everton trainer ran the line. I wonder if anyone can confirm this with some further research?

Though certainly the window did not go quite as planned; I think perhaps Zouma was more an issue and then they thought they'd get Tomori until David Luiz threw in a last-minute wrench by leaving Chelsea.

Yes, I think we will have concede that Brian won that game,
A devastating midfield combo of Gibson and Williamson!! More medical experience there than Florence Nightingale.

For me he gets the Phil Neville award for proving that playing in a team surrounded by great players doesn't mean you move to an average team and shine.

When you invest in players you need them to be available for the majority of your games, so why take a risk on players with poor injury records, makes absolutely no sense.

Should we be able to get Zouma and Gueye back, I would be delighted, as both are better options than what we have in their positions, also there is no problem with either player regarding injuries.

Yeh, Martin but that was when players were the equivalent of Ford Sierras. Patch em up, bit of filler, coat of paint, good as new!

Nowadays they're the equivalent of AMG Mercs where a bulb blows and the car won't fuckin' run without a million quids worth of analytical equipment carrying out test after test before the bulbs changed, only for another bulb to blow somewhere else.

Author's note:

(This post is NOT based on fact but seeks to whimsically compare players of yesteryear to present-day players, so any AMG owners... don't bother.)

I can't actually play football, but I'll kick Mo Salah into the Gwladys Street end at the first corner.

On a serious note. I am not sure how players are motivating themselves for these games. The roar of the crowd, 'our 12th player.' etc are comments we hear at post-match interviews. I've just watched the snooker Championship league on ITV4. It was weird seeing great shots and great breaks met with silence. Luca Brecel clearly wanted to raise his hands to the acclaim of fans but was slightly embarrassed in the near silence.

It was no surprise that the final 4 players included 3 who have won virtually nothing in the past. Some players respond to the pressure of a big crowd. that is what makes them great. (Andy Hinchcliffe was one who, reportedly, didn't like a crowd until Joe Royle got into his head.) So, when the games are played we will get odd results and surprises. I hope they start happening at Goodison Park.

Sam H..... When are we getting our summer transfer window list of players who could improve us?

Looks like Hojbjerg from Southampton could be one of the first deals done. I think there will be another central midfielder incoming too especially with Schneiderlin on his way out and Gbamin injured long-term.

Yes, we can watch on TV and yes, with false crowd noise but can we really get excited.

So now you can have any 5 from 8 subs. but the way things are at Everton they will be lucky to have 8 available on. the bench.

You have inadvertently come up with a fantastic subject for a new thread. If you had the chance to put any RS player (past or present) into the stand, who would it be?

There are some very obvious candidates, like Gerrard, Hughes, Souness, Thompson, Carragher, Kuyt.

The way our players are going down, a few of us may well be getting the call to face them next week. You can have Mo Salah, but I bagsy Jordan Henderson. He's is mine.

They where both big issues regarding the Summer Transfer window.

But In the case of Zaha, Moshiri did make money available at the end of the transfer window. I think this was partly with the intent of getting a bit money signing. There where others namely Kenwright who got involved and Brands carefully laid plans where side-tracked. Brands came up with the Iowbi transfer, and was an announcement from the Club, to end behind the scenes involvement. Other behind the scenes offers where made on top of the official one, hence the reaction of Palace and Zaha. Neither Brands or Silva were in control of transfer policy, during this crucial stage in the Summer Transfer Window. Silva has recently blamed The Summer Transfer Market for doing him in.

The Zouma situation is as you stated.

Rojo had Kenwright written all over it , as was the case in the previous season.

Ancelotti will want Brands in control, Silva was too weak.

Darren, Kev – I'd happily second those nominations but if Emlyn Hughes was still around, he'd be first on my list!

I have searched for reference of this incident without success. I too recall a linesman being replaced, but in my mind's eye, the opponents are West Brom and the replacement was a member of their club. All I can be sure of is that he ran the line adjacent to the Paddock, and it was a clear day.

The Villa game was staged on 28 February 1964, and the West Brom game four weeks later on 27 March (Good Friday). I don't think that ''pea-souper's'' were likely to feature at that stage of the season, and it's quite possible that this has happened on more than one occasion.

I'm not saying that you're wrong, because I'm not sure that I'm right, and four weeks away from my 82nd birthday my memory is not as good as it was.

Looks like Everton have a policy of buying crocks and wrecking those who aren't.

I suppose this catalogue of buying crocks, or failing to keep fit those that arrived with no injury concerns, is what has kept the club in the top flight for 65 years.

Has Everton FC been guilty of buying players with dodgy injury records? Of course it has. Sometimes it has worked; often times, it hasn't...

But we are not the only club that has done this, it's just that we don't get a daily update on all of the other clubs' failures.

On 28 February 1964, Everton, having recently been knocked out of the FA Cup at Sunderland, faced Joe Mercer's Aston Villa side at Goodison Park, and at some point in the match Geoff Sidebottom the Villa keeper had to be replaced due to a fainting incident and he had to be taken to hospital.

As this game had been played prior to the introduction of substitutes, Villa outfield player John Sleeuwenhoek had to replace him in goal as Villa were reduced to ten men.

As well as the incident with the Villa keeper, Referee Bill Hollan also had to retire early from the match following an injury sustained in a collision, presumably with a player, and Everton coach Ron Lewin took over as linesman. But Lewin was replaced by a qualified volunteer from among the crowd – following a controversial off-side decision relating to Everton's equalising goal scored by Roy Vernon.

If that had not been enough entertainment, the second-half of the game could only be seen from one side of the pitch as the other half of the pitch was shrouded in thick fog.

The game burst into life when Harry Burrows (5') gave Villa an early lead from the spot, but Dennis Stevens (15') drew the Blues level as the teams went in all-square at the interval.

In the second-half, Roy Vernon (55') gave Everton the lead from the penalty spot and two further goals from Alex Young (66') and Alex Scott (70') put the Blues firmly in the driving seat although George Graham (77') pulled a goal back – one of only two goals that he scored for Villa in his eight appearances for the club.

But it was too little, too late as Everton (4-2) ran out comfortable winners in front of 50,292 fans – but how many of those assembled managed to witness the whole of the game is open to question.

Our Premier League record, apart from a couple of seasons, has been a mix of dreary mediocrity interspersed with desperate survival tactics. We have had exactly one world-class player – Wayne Rooney – and flogged him off as soon as a half-decent offer came in. We have mostly bought utter shit - Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Williams, Shandy Andy, and crocks Gbamin, Gibson, Mina, a paralytic Gazza – we might as well have stuffed the money under the mattress and played the under-17s in place of that lot.

It was how it appeared to me at the time, having experienced Everton transfer windows over years. It contrasted so much with Brands's wise take on transfers in the context of the Club's financial position, and was pure Kenwright when someone else was paying.

I am not saying it would have made Silva's tenure longer, because his basic coaching flaws would have caught up with him anyway, but it did make Brands look amateurish, though he probably saved the club, in financial terms, by sabotaging the Zaha transfer. Kenwright did not help by getting carried away.

It will eventually come out in the wash as all these things do at Everton. The good outcome was that Moshiri realised he needed to up the calibre of manager and got Ancelotti.

The only thing that matters now is getting the two wins required which will keep us in the Premier League. Then it's all about being professional, and just starting to prepare for next season, especially if the turn-around is going to only be a few weeks.

The problem is, they are not all either as tough as the Premier League needs them to be, or perhaps as sly as to get a nasty dig in at a few opposition players to warn them off, and many of them just aren't of the physical quality required.

Everton seems to have failed in four ways:

1) Picking players who are good and can take a bashing – the Fred Pickerings;

2) Picking players who can take the strain of constant play – that is, not the likes of James McCarthy, Gerard Deulofeu or Fabian Delph;

3) Picking players who can't stay out of trouble and have a long history of injury – Gbamin, Gibson, Bolasie, Besic;

4) Picking players who are rubbish and/or over the hill, Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Gazza, probably Rooney Mk II.

Unbelievable!! What are we paying this lad for?

I have to confess that I can't recall that game and I have no doubt that I was there. I can only cling to the hope that there was another occasion, no matter who the opponents were, to give me credibility. I don't consider you as a Smart Alec at all, you were right in what you wrote and I misjudged the whims of the British weather.

You're correct, Delph did contribute points for us this season. When he got sent off against Watford, Holgate went to midfield, turned the game and we won 3-2.

I think he'd be my choice, on balance.

The tannoy announcer appealed for any volunteer in the crowd that had refereeing credentials to run the line. The No 2 ref took the opportunity to swap his yellow flag for the red one. That was not the end of the matter because the substitute ref suffered some kind of stomach problem to be replaced by the newly self-appointed bearer of the Red flag.

The announcer said with agreement of both team captains an Everton assistant would take over the vacant Linesman's role.

Or did I just dream all of this.

Good work. Thanks. Certainly is helping me draw down images from the past. I do remember that fog sweeping in to the extent that I thought the game might be abandoned.

I've already reserved my place behind the sofa.

I agree, Holgate did do it in that day. Delph was a rushed signing and Everton got ripped off in the deal.

It was the only deal available and got Brands back in control of the budget. Silva would have agreed it.

The end of Summer Transfer signings where all rushed, with Everton playing catch up. Lucky they did not get the left-back back-up. Holgate would have been down the pecking order and would have been out on loan this season.

Milner has been a bargain, Delph has been a disappointment. There is still time for him to prove his worth but would anyone put a tenner on him ever giving us a full season?

We have to avoid, unless it's a no-brainier, getting ageing fringe player cast-offs from the Sky 6 clubs. It often ends in them being an average fringe player for us also. Going through the motions on their final big contract. Think Schneiderlin, Delph, Walcott. They must think we are the biggest suckers in the league.

It is a little bit of a lottery when you are looking for bargains and depends hugely on player attitude. Barry, Milner and Delph appear to show how different they can be.

We do need 3 points from somewhere though!

1) Quality – Barry was a top-level player whose importance was usurped at Man City by a mixture of world-class players and a slight decline due to his age. Fabian Delph was never good enough for Man City and only lasted as long because of Mendy's issues at left-back. Had he been the signing that initially looked likely, Delph would have been gone long before. Delph never made it at Man City, like Barry.

2) Availability – Gareth played a huge amount of games in the Premier League and was an experienced international. Delph had much less know-how and is rarely injury-free.

3) Need – Under Martinez, we had limited funds and, because we had spent 㾹 million on Jimmy Mac, we needed that figurehead to complement the Irishman's industry. It was an excellent symbiotic partnership which the Spaniard created. Under Moshiri, we weren't under the same financial restrictions and we already had senior players in that area and hadn't replaced the only dynamic players in Gueye and McCarthy. Delph was not a necessity like Barry.

What we have now are not fit to shine Gareth Barry's boots!

Mark @106 mentions attitude. Gareth Barry had no peers when it came to attitude and professionalism. He never gave less than 100% for us, he wasn't here just for the big contract. Traits we should focus on a lot more when considering such players.

I agree completely. When Gueye and McCarthy played, they gave it all, and had attitude, unlike Delph and Schneiderlin, who offer nothing.

Our best defensive midfielder is a centre-back, Holgate, that says it all.

He offers nothing... not a thing. Easily the worse player we have had for many a year.

That said, it's always been that some players are not physically up to the job; signing players with a longish history on the sidelines is a big punt.

Problem is, we can't attract the very best players in their prime, so we take chances on players such as Delph.

Anyway, fitness? The Aussie rules football (sic) started again here in front of empty stadiums this weekend. AFL has often been promoted as the fitest team sport in the world. Scores have been hovering around the modest 50s and 60s Instead of the usual 90s and 100s.

One commentator noted that teams are starting off as usual in the first two quarters but are dead on their feet in the last two quarters. AFL are very very good on sports science. It's just the situation we find ourselves in. I'd be interested to hear how the German league looks in this respect.

Positive outlook, Liverpool probably won't win the Premier Legaue by beating us. So that's something.

Since we have had Directors of Football, we have made some terrible signings. Gueye and Richarlison have been the best buys of recent years but most knowledgeable followers of the game would have noticed them.

The one plus of Silva's management was the signing of Richarlison, who I believe had more influence on his signing than our Director of Football. Since we have had two successive Directors of Football, the quality of buys overall has been very poor.

Also unlike at Arsenal, Manchester City or Istanbul teams, we don't seem to be able to sell crocks, squad players or someone recently acquainted with a football for large amounts of money. Whoever does the buying and selling at Everton makes Derek Trotter look like and astute businessman.

We always seem to have many players constantly out on long-term injuries.

Compare and contrast. We are a club with little ambition to be successful. Happy to make up the numbers. Happy to bask in successes from the distant past. So, one of our superstars feels a twinge. Please, Mr Ancelotti, I've got a note from me mum. Can't do games! "We ain't gonna win anything so why bother?" seems to be the attitude.

In the early years of the Nazi invasion of the USSR, thousands of Soviets were shot by their political commissars for defeatism, desertion, skiving etc. After the Germans were put on the run after Stalingrad, these executions were minimal in number. Why?

People want to be part of a winning side seeking glory. If and when we rekindle that sort of outlook and morale at Everton, there will be tumbleweed blowing through the treatment room.

He looked good in his first few games. Unfortunately, he is yet another player who has used Everton as a basis for earning money. Nowhere near good enough for us, I'm afraid.

We want to look to the future, not the past, as it gets more embarrassing as time goes on. Our neighbours won the Champions League last season and the Premier League this season, I've had enough of the jokes and pity.

We perennially have a slow start to the season. Other clubs always seem more advanced physically and more prepared. We are admittedly relatively safe, but I don't want us to start slowly and get into a downward spiral. Often it is hard to reverse.

The likes of a Watford, Norwich etc will be fully tuned up to try to perform a rescue act. Those clubs know what is at stake. There will be one mid-table club who will become the fall guy. With the professional standards our club deserves, this should not be us.

There is no reason whatsoever we should ever be less prepared, less fit or more injury-prone than any adversary. Overall, that is a matter of science and logistics only. All teams over time suffer bad luck, it shouldn't be a crutch for excuses.

Proper controlled methods and discipline can ensure that we are never intentionally second-best regarding this.

The fitness and injury issues may be systemic failures at the club. It is getting to the stage where some sort of internal inquiry is needed to address these issues and improve the situation. No stone can be left unturned if we want to progress and become serious about challenging the top 6.

Our lack of fitness is not new. Osman nailed it with his – Moyes's easy wind-down session was harder than Martinez's hard session... and it doesn't seem to have gotten any better.

Martinez also had a root-and-branch clear out of fitness and physio staff, then we became hamstring central.

It's not just football and Everton though, even the normally super fit AFL players are, after the enforced break, blowing out midway through the 3rd quarter.

I watched some NRL and they've been keeping the camera angle tight on the pitch and after a bit you don't even notice the lack of actual people and the fake crowd noise.

You can lead a player to the sandhills, you can even make him run up it, but you can't make them put in more than the basic effort required to get to the top.

The only true discipline is self-discipline.

This spate of players going down one after the other has led to us all seemingly scratching our heads. When it was Gbamin, Gomes and Mina pulling up, Brands came in for some overdue criticism. Then, the likes of Schneiderlin and Walcott led others to have a pop at Walsh.

Some have directed their anger at the sicknotes personally as many are the treatment table usual suspects, while others believe there is a dreaded Finch Farm curse.

Many have blamed our fitness department because injuries aren't a new phenomena at Everton while some have even blamed the fallout from the Coronavirus for the walking wounded.

Now we have Roberto Martinez getting a mention and players' lack of self-discipline as offerings. I'm actually feeling sorry for Blue Bill that he barely got an airing.

Prior to Carlo's appointment, I spoke about the fitness issues at both Napoli and Bayern with players like Lewandowski openly critical when a similar injury spiral began in the second preseason and continued for a number of months even after Ancelotti exited. Many excited Evertonians dismissed these claims.

Now, when the previous manager's fitness work has been made redundant due to the enforced break, suddenly, we have an injury epidemic on our hands.

The most surprising element to me is not that Evertonians are remiss to point the finger at Carlo but that the only acknowledgement which has seemingly universal concurrence is that 'this doesn't happen under Klopp's watch'.

In essence, by that remark alone, it figures that, when the trainer of a football team picks up an unusually significant amount of injuries during his training regime, then this is undoubtedly where the problem lies... or, in Klopp's case, not so.

I don't think we need to call Columbo for this one.

Change the club policy and do not sign anyone over the age of 25 unless they have in impeccable injury-free record. Also write into their contracts that, if unavailable for petty ailments, they are limited to 20% of their normal wages.

Additionally, if they cannot play at least 75% of the season's fixtures, the club reserves the right to terminate their contract.

Seems harsh but something must be done to sort out the shysters that we have at the club.

Then how they behave when they are away from the club obviously affects what condition they are in.

How we train our players, I haven't a clue, but there should be enough knowledge within the club to make a fist of it.

Some things are facts for life.

And we don't even know if Walcott is injured -- all we know is he had abdominal surgery. Could have been for an appendix or a hernia. So I think the sweeping conclusions are unwarranted at this point.

Btw, I'm not one for spreading gossip but I'm beginning to think Mrs Columbo doesn't exist!!

Mike, if they were the only three injuries, you may indeed be onto something.

In recent times, we have bought players for significant amounts of money that did not have the talent to justify the expensive risk taking. Some had already proven themselves to be expensive mistakes at other clubs and we rescued them from their failings (Schneiderlin) or repeated the same failure of judgment by another club (Sigurdsson).

Although the latter does strike the occasional good dead ball but, on that basis, Kevin Sheedy would still get a game given he would probably have the greater success rate. Given we have Digne and Baines still then we have dead set pieces covered.

Carlo has been here a short time, prior to which, Delph and Mina have hardly been off the treatment table, Coleman and Gbamin were out injured for a while and Gomes almost had a career-ending tackle.

Consistent injuries usually suggest the player doesn't train properly or has an inherent weakness.

I share your admiration of Gareth Barry, but I'm afraid to say that there were a fair number of fans in close proximity to me in the Park End, who vilified him for his lack of pace, and couldn't recognise his contribution to the cause. I've no doubt that one or two who are singing is praises now were sceptical in those times, I think that the phrase "You don't know what you've got until it's gone" springs to mind.

Hi Raymond [121],

I have expressed the opinion that some players are over-trained, on this site once or twice. I base my view on the number of hamstring injuries that occur, many in the pre-match warm-up. I have no medical knowledge to justify my opinion, but having watched Everton since 1948, I can say with a degree of certainty that hamstring injuries were few and far between.

Those two massive bellends, Gerrard and Carragher, pat themselves on the back to this day for spiking Benitez's attempt to bring in Barry and pair him with Gerrard.

I think they would have dovetailed perfectly, he's everything that Gerrard wasn't, calm positionally brilliant, unflappable. Thank god that didn't happen.

Richard fall out the loft Wright.

Darron just the nineteen pints please Gibson.

James Vaughan, desperately unlucky with injuries caused mainly by his all action style.

Danny the ghost Williamson.

Fabian balsa wood Delph.

Duncan Ferguson, tragic the amount of injuries he had.

Morgan always out of the big games Schneiderlein.

Louis Saha, great on his day but a know crock when he signed him.

Joe Parkinson, I think we contributed to his injuries with steroid injections, another massive shame.

Theo Walcott. Another one who finds the phsyios table so alluring.

Bryan Oviedo. At one point looked a potential replacement for Baines, never recovered from his tragic injury.

(Other notables, Yerry Mina, Arouna Kone, Rodrigo (remember him?), Gazza.