Loan Update: Moise Kean at Juventus

On a serious note, with a strike force like ours, how did we come to send him out on loan? Moaner, sulker, knob, yes... but there have to be questions asked.

I just hope the deal is watertight legally because that £30M with the FFP etc is a necessity towards our rebuilding plans.

The epithet of being one of Europe's brightest young talents demonstrates exactly how far footy standards have dropped. He is a very, very ordinary player and if we get Juve to cough £30M we've had their pants down.

You answered your own question when you weren't being serious. He was sent on loan to buy for around about or possibly more than what we were due to pay for him.

Seeing as he was crap, I would say it was a good deal. Not buying another striker wasn't clever.

Mind you, given the morons who run things these days, we can expect him to be back in our U23s next autumn.

In other loan news, Niels Nkounkou continues to struggle to have a positive impact at Standard Liege, and Joao Virginia has been nailed to the bench at Sporting. No league appearances.

But JP Gbamin has been a tremendous success so far in the tainted waters of sanctioned CSKA. Five starts, five full games, five wins. And a goal and an assist last weekend. The assist was gorgeous, a first-touch chip over the top for a breakaway. What a story he could be... if....

Is the player we thought we were signing and desperately need right now emerging (for the wrong team)?

Not on pay-per-play now, is he? Or is that league really so comparatively gentle on the physique?

Two youngsters with a similar profile who went for a similar price. One of them is now one of the hottest young players in Italy and is being tracked by all the big clubs; one has barely featured this year and is in danger of sinking without trace.

No need to guess which one went to Everton! Similar to Funes Mori & Van Dijk or Bolasie & Zaha vibes. Astounding how often we seem to have picked the wrong path.

I remember the frenzy on here when Kean signed. The world of football definitely presented the news of him becoming an Everton player as a very unexpected coup, and what felt like the vast majority on here felt like we had signed a world-beater. You yourself were pretty confident he was a good signing.

Sadly he has not delivered and is proving incredibly hard to successfully bring his time at the club to a confirmed end. I just hope we can move him on for good as soon as possible and his strange status as an Everton player can be well and truly a thing of the past.

It was always doomed, and frightening, scary that Everton have paid good contract money on the most un natural, position based, CF, Ive seen, in modern times.

Barn door Barlow, Brett Angel, a few mote from the 70s, Rod, George, etc Alan Bailey, James Beatie, and Andy Johnson,

In my view Moise, beats them all, and that is a tough line to beat, but history, facts, and TWs, truth statements, of them days will hopefully, serve well.

Tony #9, the five victories are noteworthy too. This is the best stretch of the season for CSKA, who were muddling along miserably in mid-table before Gbamin arrived. They've only given up two goals since he stepped in front of their backline.

Pete #17, I've never seen a worse instinctive defender than Seamus when he came back from his loan, and a few months at the University of Moyes turned him into a capable defensive fullback, and he subsequently became an outstanding one. So I think that's the answer to your Patterson question.

Yes, I was excited when we signed Kean. He hadn't played an awful lot but he looked exactly the sort of player we should be aiming at, young, hopefully hungry, highly rated and seemingly with very high potential. It hasn't worked out but (unless Juve get out of their contract) we should still make a small profit on him; considering the amount of players we have made and will make enormous losses on I'd say Kean was (depressingly) one of our more reasonable signings.

I believe it's why there's not that many great players, in a sport that is now full of athleticism.

I just saw bits and pieces of the Scotland game. Patterson was taken off just after he had been fouled with a bad tackle, was the injury serious?

You are so right with that comment, “There are no crystal balls” with regards to scouting; the two signings Allardyce made fully illustrate the difference.

Walcott always had it in him to be a very good player and, in his first few months at Everton, he looked like he was a good signing. Very early in the start of the next season, he looked to me that he didn't want to be here; his heart wasn't in it – not that he had a big heart when it came to tackling.and The rest of his time at Everton was mostly indifferent form... and that's when he was fit.

The other signing, Tosun, you didn't need a crystal ball – just your eyes. For a scout, two or three times watching him should have been more than enough to tell you that Tosun was far too slow for the Premier League.

How Keane, Gomes, Iwobi and a few others were deemed good enough to spend vast amounts on is baffling to me and most probably many of our supporters. Mind you, to these scouts, it wasn't their money being spent.

I think Harry Catterick always had it in mind that it was his money when buying a player, until he became ill and he made a few bad buys.

Once opposition managers got into the ears of the officials, he was doomed and labelled. A fast, lightweight player who would inevitably go tumbling if a 6 foot plus bulk of a centre back made contact. The fact he was quick and lightweight always made his fall look "spectacular", but he was no diver.

Dare I say, Richarlison suffers similarly now, but the reputation is there now, so more than often, the ref makes his decision based on the colour of shirt and player, not what actually happened.

Back to the thread. Moise Kean the worst? By god no. We didn't see enough of the 20-year-old player still learning his trade in a foreign country to make that judgement.

Stuart Barlow has been mentioned. I will also give you Mick Ferguson.

Hello Sam,

At the time we were buying Kean I thought: "So young and talented, why are Juve selling him?".

I was suspicious, If they had any inkling they could get an Aguero or Ronaldo out this kid they'd have kept him, he must have had problems they couldn't get around. They had him long enough to have a good look at him.

Also no one else was interested in him, he wasn't a seventeen year old who nobody had any idea what he could do, he'd played internationals, there were obvious red flags.

Along comes EFC, "He's a Juve player he must good, let's have him", what Juve knew was that he had head and attitude problems. They've took him back hoping he understands this might be his last chance at a big club and will change his attitude, but he's complete basket case.

I'm always alarmed when a player glitters like Kean does, but none of the big boys show any interest.

I know what you're saying, but since then it is clubs of the stature of Juventus and Paris St Germain that have taken him on. He's played Champion's League football. But not good enough for Everton even though he is still only 22?

Like Lukaku and De Bruyne were not apparently not considered good enough for Chelsea at a young age, I'd still give this lad a decent crack of the whip if he remains an Everton player. Personal opinion.

After a stop start beginning for him at Everton I finally got the chance to see Kean at Goodison and for the 20 or so minutes he was just awful, his basic control was all over the place and at that point I knew we had signed another dud !

For what Juve will have to pay us for him, all of the big boys could easily afford, but none are interested in this "Super Kid", he's got some serious head problems.

I think PSG began to realise this also, look how much they've paid in the past for their big players, but they would not take a chance on Kean and were trying to mitigate the risk and get his price down to nothing by their own standards.

Yes, he's played in the CL, but as PSG have decided: "MEH? He's not worth the risk, au revoir!". He's not worth the risk for us either. He's about to passed from club to club just like Ademola Lookman, if he's lucky.

For me, the February 2007 early kick-off match at our old ground was the game that grinds to this day.

Everton had fought well and should have won via Leon Osman, easy header over the bar, but Andy Johnson was through one-on-one on Reina midway 60th minuteish, and I was to the right of the goal post in the Anfield Road, and how he didn't burst the net, but hit the chance straight at Reina has stuck.

Still I respect your views and fine margins.

If this squad had the fight that squad possessed, Everton would be in a better place.

Although the so-called big boys haven't come in for him, the clubs that have shown interest are actually in that category in terms of European football??

Reverting back to De Bruyne. Written off by Chelsea and sent on loan to Werder Bremen aged 21. Eventually sold to Wolfsburg for what now seems like a paltry £18M aged 22. Hardly "big boys" of European football. He was 24 by the time he signed for Man City. Now probably the best footballer in the Premier League in my opinion.

The point being, you can never really judge or tell with most young footballers unless you get a freak like Rooney who almost has it all aged 16. And each player will develop and peak at different ages, sometimes dependent on style and position.

Another good line I heard: I was watching a video on Bramley-Moore Dock, where the new ground is being built, and there was an area where it looked as if a swimming pool was being built. So I phoned my friend who visits the area and he said "Yes, they will be putting a pool in – it's for the Liverpool forwards to practice their diving skills."

The likes of Patterson and Mykolenko may need a few more games to prove their worth but, given we are in a relegation battle, will Lampard take a chance and replace the bottlers who have let us down time and again?

As for Andy Johnson, we could do with a few of his goals right now – as for his hounding over diving, I thought that was triggered by arsehole Wenger – yet when they analysed penalty claims didn't they find 8/10 were stonewall? Seems we've been shat upon for decades. 😡

ToffeeWeb doesn't need much ammo for a conspiracy theory but even I have to question that one.

I admire your open-mindedness and hope but, from what I have seen of Moise Kean, I do not think he deserves either. Kean contributes very little outside of his goals - many of which are swift streaky finishes.

Clubs like PSG and Juventus might benefit from having him – they need flat-track bullies who can find space in the box and take advantage of the space and opportunities that having world-class team-mates can provide.

But in a struggling team, Kean is not going to be very effective. Others have suggested his attitude is a problem, but for me his lack of all-round ability is the more noticeable problem.

And drawing some sort of parallel with De Bruyne – even just in theory – is kind of laughable. De Bruyne was just another speculative buy for Chelsea, at a time when they were very dominant domestically, and he got relatively few chances to prove himself.

Chelsea made a 250% profit on him, and then he kicked on elsewhere to become the extraordinary footballer that he currently is. Same happened with Salah (minus the big trading profit).

Moise Kean was overhyped, based on a handful of goals for Juventus at the tail end of the season that enabled them to win Serie A. Their trajectories are just so very different.

You might dismiss Kean being classed as a “Super Kid”, but that's basically how we was billed; he came 14th in the 2019 Golden Boy Award.

If I was to draw a more likely parallel, it would be with Lukaku. Good but probably not top drawer at the top level.

I never like calling another supporters opinion laughable. I wouldn't yours.

At the time, De Bruyne was loaned and sold off to an apparent lesser league and standard. He hadn't made it in the self proclaimed best league in the world.

In hindsight Chelsea done good business and it was a great footballing move by the player.

But at the time, he'd flopped at Chelsea in relative terms of age. He was ineffective and not a Premier League player.

We judge too early.

Kean was highly touted as a young player (still young), came to Goodison and was basically rubbish although, to be fair, didn't really get a run of games.

However, he was deemed expendable although the likes of Tosun and Rondon were deemed good enough but who in turn have turned out to be poor. Then they didn't want loanee Josh King who also didn't really get a run out and sent him back.

Our troubles seem to have started when Calvert-Lewin got injured, and then Richarlison, which left us floundering in attack for the most part except for the occasional input of Gray and it's been a mess ever since with very little being done to at least get some decent defensive performances in order to preserve a point in some games.

Rafa was left scratching his head and now Lampard may be doing the same.

Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool have proved that offence is the best form of defence and keeping good possession in the middle of the park stops other teams from being too dangerous.

Okay, you do need a quality squad to maintain that approach but the quality is totally missing from this Everton squad.

We have salvaged 6 points in the dying seconds of two games and got another 3 points against fellow strugglers Leeds and that just about sums up our achievements in the last 3 months.

If we stay up (nothing is guaranteed) then the club should release a whole slew of underachievers on free transfers and the scouting staff if necessary to free up some wage space for some new quality players.

Strikingly, there has been no discussion in the press around Gbamin's presence there -- amidst all the accounts of Western and Ukrainian players and coaches abandoning their Russian teams, Gbamin actually started his tenure at CSKA right after the invasion, but nobody has mentioned it in the news sources I read.

Back to the subject of loans -- here's a summary of our loanees by Pete Reynolds on Royal Blue Mersey, which in my opinion comes off unjustifiably optimistic about Nkounkou and unjustifiably negative on Mykolenko and Gbamin:

Everton Loan Recap: Spring Report | Is Nkounkou Ready? How are Everton's seven out-on-loan players getting on?

Juve will probably claim that the deal was contingent on Super League money and Bill violated the agreement by championing the rebellion against the project.