Rumour mill ramps up ahead of winter window

20/12/2022 188comments  |  Jump to last

As we approach the January transfer window in the New Year, the clickbait websites have been awash with a relentless stream of rumours about potential comings, goings and stayings as far as the Everton squad is concerned  but there appears to be little of substance.

A number of sites seem to believe the pundit who claimed that Jordan Pickford (among others) was with the wrong club, blaming him for letting in France's first goal, and this is why England failed to progress beyond the quarterfinals at the World Cup. Consequently, some suggest Tottenham Hotspur are keen to have him replace Hugo Lloris – who put in some outstanding performances. 

Yerry Mina and Aboulaye Doucoure have both been tipped for moves away, following in the footsteps of Salomon Rondon, who agreed to terminate his Everton contract last week. All three players have been hardly used by manager Frank Lampard this season, and getting them and their salaries off the books would obviously help him in his quest for new players. 

Michael Keane and Tom Davies are in a similar position in terms of limited game time under Lampard, with Keane supposedly attracting interest from Leicester City, West Ham Utd, and Fulham. Everton could potentially get a modest fee for the experienced centre-back who turns 30 next month but still has 2½ years remaining on his contract.

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The situation for Tom Davies could come to a head as he is approaching the last 6 months of his contract. He continues to attract mixed reviews from fans, some of whom still believe he has something to offer to his boyhood club. Sentiment may win out if he is given another contract as he is clearly not delivering anything meaningful to a poor team. 

Of the players who are staying, Alex Iwobi is rumoured to be close to agreeing a new and very lucrative contract after months of talks – despite his existing agreement being valid for another 18 months. Similar rumours suggest that a young star who has had a very disappointing season so far, Anthony Gordon, will agree a new contract that has also been on the cusp for an extended period of time, while links suggesting extravagant moves for him to Chelsea, Spurs or Newcastle seem to have faded away. 

As for the all-important incoming, a host of names have been suggested as being available but none seem to have been consistently linked to the point where it would appear there is a real prospect of them coming to Everton, Matheus Cunha and Ismaila Sarr being the potential exceptions. 

We are led to believe that not one but two strikers will be the priority for Lampard and Thelwell, but that's disturbingly similar to what they said before bringing in Neal Maupay and Dwight McNeil, who have so far failed to make any appreciable difference upfront, where the Blues remain sorely challenged in terms of goalscoring. 




Reader Comments (188)

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Sam Hoare
1 Posted 18/12/2022 at 07:56:52
Gyokeres at Coventry is top scorer in the Championship, I think, and looks a pretty decent all-round striker and forward. He was linked in the summer and will probably be in the Premier League sooner rather than later.

I think he looks a slightly more complete striker than Brereton Diaz though I'm not sure either will become a Top 6 Premier League striker. Remember that Maupay also scored a lot of goals in the Championship.

Robert Tressell
2 Posted 18/12/2022 at 08:54:43
Sam, if we get Gyorekes, he's probably got enough to help us stay up.

You're right though, him and Maupay are not top strikers. They are more like Radzinski and McBride than, say, Yakubu, Saha etc.

I'm not even convinced Gyorekes is better than Simms (or what Simms will become with a bit more experience).

Sam Hoare
3 Posted 18/12/2022 at 09:08:13
Robert, yes indeed. And Gyokeres would probably suit our current style more than Maupay who is a striker blessed with good movement and link-up play around the box, definitely not one to hold the ball up or deal with long balls at head height.

I think the wingers may actually be as big as if not a bigger issue than the striker. We've two wingers currently who are not scoring, not creating, and are not holding onto the ball much; though lack of support is an issue too.

And much stems from our horribly deep line and the consequent gap between defence and midfield. Basically, the lack of goals probably has as much to do with the system as the players.

Tony Everan
4 Posted 18/12/2022 at 09:08:34
Sam, Robert,

It's a bit of a shame we didn't sign Gyokeres ahead of Maupay in the summer, it would have made more sense as a more like-for-like stand-in for Calvert-Lewin, even though he hasn't the same aerial ability. From this statement in the summer, it was on the cards:

"Everton are rumoured to be in talks with Coventry City striker Viktor Gyökeres regarding a move to Goodison Park.

“According to the @eplpodden Twitter account, the 24-year-old prospect is negotiating with the Toffees and looks set to leave the Championship side before the deadline, a suggestion lent more credence by Alan Myers of Sky Sports who confirmed that Gyökeres is one of the attacking options the club are looking at.”

Beto, 6ft-4in interests me more as a striker who could give us a presence, threat and some important goals. Napoli, Dortmund, some Premier League clubs also interested though so will be a challenge for Thelwell to get him in.

Rob Halligan
5 Posted 18/12/2022 at 10:27:34
I saw a rumour yesterday that we had a chance of signing Marcus Thuram from Munchengladbach for around £8.5M this January. I have just looked up the rumour and the exact same rumour, word for word, now has Aston Villa (Just Exchange Everton for Aston Villa) rumoured to be after him.

Lampard could get Goodison Park rocking with Marcus Thuram swoop

When I see rumours like these, they really are just a load of rubbish, even more so the site reporting the rumour, Footall Fancast!

Jim Lloyd
6 Posted 19/12/2022 at 13:30:22
For all the stick he got, Walsh, when he was at Leicester, brought Vardy in for around £1million. I don’t know if he brought the other top class players into their team, but they won the Premier League. How long has he been a top goalscorer in the Premier League? And they have been a decent side ever since,

When they played us at Goodison, I sat in the Upper Bullens wishing we could swap our players for theirs! They played us off the park!

I looked at Maddison and he was light-years better than our midfielders and their midfield was much more effective than ours… so was their team, come to that.

I saw a post from Robert where he'd included a sentence or two about 3 of our young players. Paraphrasing, but his opinion was that they could become much better players, and I hope they follow his advice.

Robert and Sam have written two good posts re Maupay and Gyokeres, who might well complement each other and give us the goals we need to stay up.

We may well need one, if not two players (a winger and a creator) who can supply the crosses and make our attacking a lot more cohesive than it is now.

Tony's point about a better balance in midfield is spot on as well. We're disjointed to the point of not really being a team.

If we don't get this resolved this transfer window, I think we stand a very good chance of falling into the mire this season.

Brian Harrison
7 Posted 20/12/2022 at 09:51:31

Everton did try to buy Maddison when he was at Coventry but he chose Leicester as it was close to his parents was the reason he gave.

I don't know who is in charge of scouting at Brighton but we could do a lot worse than get him here. They seem to spot good young talent which they polish and turn into top players which they sell for top money. They sold White to Arsenal for £50 million, Cucerrela to Chelsea for £62 million, obviously Mac Allister winning the World Cup will have increased his selling price.

They also have Caciedo who is attracting interest from a few of the top clubs.

Trevor Peers
8 Posted 20/12/2022 at 10:24:28
Maddison is a good player but can be injury prone and a bit of lightweight, not a good fit for a team struggling at the wrong end of the table like us. Not that we could afford him anyway!

Reading that Iwobi and Gordon are closing in on new contracts doesn't fill me with excitement either, both are very inconsistent and I hope their not being paid a fortune, niether of them deserve to be on more than £30k a week.

They are a far cry from the quality I'd of expected at Everton at one time, it just shows how far we've fallen. I agree with Colin's last sentence, about Cunha and Kudos. The whole scouting system needs a complete dynamic overall if we are ever to produce good youngsters.

Mike Price
9 Posted 20/12/2022 at 11:44:00
I agree with Trevor about new contracts to Iwobi and Gordon.

Iwobi has been a terrible signing despite a recent improvement. The bar was set so low that average performances are enough to get people thinking he's top class. We're about to get lumbered with another average player on a superstar contract that no one else was even interested in.

Kevin Molloy
10 Posted 20/12/2022 at 12:12:57
What is it with this club? Even good news is bad news. The one player who has improved (Pickford) looks like he is playing hardball and will now leave at an undervalue. Hurrah! Let's face it, why on earth would he want to stay with spurs and Man Utd sniffing around?

And what's the betting that the good form shown by Alex Iwobi is totally linked to the presence of Lampard, and that by the time he is booted out, Alex will have penned a new 5-year deal on eye-watering money, only to revert to the player we all know he can be?

We've been in some grim situations but I can't recall a bleaker landscape than at present. I do hope soft arse has taken the winter break in Monaco to work up some contingencies for in the event we don't fly up the table in January, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that front.

Danny O’Neill
11 Posted 20/12/2022 at 12:29:23
Pickford is an improvement on Lloris? Smells of English media wanting English players at their favourite clubs to me.

Let's get that Croatian keeper lined up as a contingency given our record of players going away with England and having their ear bent.

Peter McEvoy
12 Posted 20/12/2022 at 12:50:56
Glad to hear Rondon is going.

I can't believe Anthony Gordon is being offered a new contract, he offers nothing and is widely over-rated with no end product – a Championship player at best.

We need to offload Michael Keane, Yerry Mina is always injured, and Tom Davies is overated – I've never seen him pass the ball forward... lightweight.

Who agrees our signings and scouts for players? They need to be sacked – £500 million of rubbish signed.

Being an Everton Fan is hard work.

Steve Brown
13 Posted 20/12/2022 at 13:39:50
Iwobi has been our best player this season, and Gordon was last season. It makes perfect sense to put them on new contracts as it protects their resale value.

Pickford still has 2 years left on his contract, so he may be sold this summer if he doesn't extend his deal. He would command a big transfer fee as England Number 1, so it might be the right time to sell him and use the money to reinvest in the squad.

Bill Gall
14 Posted 20/12/2022 at 14:05:45
To me, with the number of players we are rumored with at least 60% of them I can't see Everton being able to afford the transfer fees and the players' demands to come. The other 40% we may have the equivalent of, if not better, in our youth teams.

We need to sell to afford the kind of goalscorer we need, also we need Calvert-Lewin to remain fit. My pick if we could get him would be Sarr from Watford. The last winger we signed from them done pretty good!

Clive Rogers
15 Posted 20/12/2022 at 14:48:42
After their disastrous summer window signings, Lampard and Thelwell need to get the January signings right — or we will be in the Championship and they will be sacked!
Pat Kelly
16 Posted 20/12/2022 at 14:50:31
All I want for Christmas is some teeth up front.

We seem to be growing deadwood faster than we can shift it. If Davies is given a new contract I think we can give up any hope of a new direction. He should be encouraged to terminate his contract.

Jay Harris
17 Posted 20/12/2022 at 15:15:00
As we saw with the World Cup, top-class players make a difference so we have to stop selling our best players and bring some good quality in – not just average or Championship standard but good class players.

In addition, we need to get rid of the no-hopers. We have Tarkowski, Coady, Mina, Holgate, Godfrey, Keane, Branthwaite and Reece Welch. Surely we can get some decent money for a couple of these and get a decent striker out of it. It is criminal that we only have Maupay and Calvert-Lewin as goalscorers.

Midfield is also an area where we have plenty of players but none who can score goals. Oh, how we miss the much-derided Icelander.

We are also lacking a free-kick specialist after Digne's departure.

Mike Dolan
18 Posted 20/12/2022 at 15:23:36
The player we need to sign is a creative midfielder. Our problem is not creating chances as much as not scoring goals.

Kudus and Sarr would be the dream. But can't see it happening.

Kieran Kinsella
19 Posted 20/12/2022 at 15:31:39
Trevor & Mike,

Bizarrely, the Echo is reporting that, in return for getting improved contracts, Everton are making it clear to Iwobi and Gordon that they will expect more goals and assists from them going forward.

I'm sorry but isn't that backwards? You haven't done a good enough job so we are going to double your wages in the hope that inspires you to do better. Shouldn't it be a matter of doing a better job over a sustained period (not a few months) to prove you deserve a raise?

If Iwobi's form dropped off now, we'd be looking at a guy who was good for 3 months in a 3-year period and who's here for the next 3 or 4 years on this new £100k-a-week contract.

I don't see the urgency in tying him down. I don't see a long list of suitors; if he had any, I'd sell him as, despite some nice moves, he doesn't actually score or assist. I would wait till the summer and see how he's done.

Kieran Kinsella
20 Posted 20/12/2022 at 15:33:35
Pat Kelly,

"If Davies is given a new contract, I think we can give up any hope of a new direction. He should be encouraged to terminate his contract."

I'd say switch out the last three words of that for simply: retire.

Paul Hewitt
21 Posted 20/12/2022 at 15:36:38
Cunha going to Wolves.
James Flynn
22 Posted 20/12/2022 at 15:50:35
Pickford has one more year after this one. He's 29 next Summer and his next contract is his last big one.

Be interesting to see what happens with his contract.

Keane should be an easy move if he wants one. 2 more years left on his contract on a nice wedge. Not one so big for a CB now in his 8th Prem season (250 games played). Some club throws a couple more seasons onto his current contract? Everybody wins.

That's him and Mina gone. Right on 200K per week gone with them. And next season has Branthwaite worked into the rotation.

As for Gordon, Iwobi, Davies? They're on a contract. Why sign them to anything new? We're at the bottom end of the league on merit. See how it plays out, first.

Ed Prytherch
23 Posted 20/12/2022 at 15:53:23
Steve Brown's post stands out from the usual "championship at best" and "rubbish" cliches.
Rob Halligan
24 Posted 20/12/2022 at 16:00:27
Paul Hewitt
1 Posted 14/12/2022 at 06:10:29
Flag this comment So a guy playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world, playing regular Champions League football, is going to give all that up to come and play for Everton?
Absolutely hysterical.😆

So Paul, exactly why is Cunha going to Wolves?

Trevor Peers
25 Posted 20/12/2022 at 16:22:45
Steve@13and Ed@23

If the rumoured £100k a week figure is the actual salary of Iwobi and Gordon's new contracts, does anyone agree they deserve even half of that?

They would be the most overpaid players in Europe considering their limited ability. Not that anyone would be surprised, because we have been paying huge wages to dross players for decades now, it is the biggest reason for our sad decline. No doubts about that at all.

Paul Hewitt
26 Posted 20/12/2022 at 16:26:47
Rob@24. Lack of ambition I'd say.
Mike Dolan
27 Posted 20/12/2022 at 16:51:20
Players are worth exactly as much as they can possibly extract from the clubs that employ them. It’s their share of the television money. It has little to do with greed to want to be paid in the same range as your peers. I just hope they work like dogs to become £200.000 a week players.
Robert Tressell
28 Posted 20/12/2022 at 17:00:48
Wolves seem to do well through agent connections which gives a bit of an advantage.

It is also entirely possible we weren't remotely interested in Cunha. As I said earlier in the thread, he's got talent and it would have been a fun signing, but he doesn't look like the player to bring the best out of our wingers or Maupay.

Dale Self
29 Posted 20/12/2022 at 17:03:52
Everton are also listed as interested in Jobe Bellingham CM at Birmingham City. With some heavies getting moved after the World Cup this January transfer market could be an unusually thick market and we may have a chance to deal some and bring in more quality youth.
Trevor Peers
30 Posted 20/12/2022 at 17:05:25
Disagree with that Mike@27

Usually any player is paid what he is judged to be worth or somewhere near it. How can either player be worth paying that much money to when their performances on the field have us scoring the least goals in the premiership and having us in the grip of yet another relegation battle ?

It's utter madness I don't see any other premiership club paying wages like that to average players. Of course the club could have just said 'No way', who would be bothered if both were sold tomorrow?

Dale Self
32 Posted 20/12/2022 at 17:19:13
Trevor, good critique of the players but I'm wondering if there is a bit of a 'market premium' for standout players on each club. No they don't match up well against some other clubs' similar players but their value capture strategies are different to the advantage of players on lesser teams.

Stick with me here. The players who are better than an Iwobi or Gordon will likely be first to get offered to sit on the most valuable benches in the Premiership. They do this because those clubs have reputations of moving players on at increased values that eventually produce the wage offers the players feel they can capture while being in demand during transfer season.

At lesser clubs then you may find them willing to pay for more than a comparable player in that position is paid at a better club in order to hang on to them or at least bump them up to promote their future trade value. It is basically sharing the players' future contributions between the clubs and star players where the players are in better position to capture when they are a tradeable asset. There may be some international trade research paper that could be useful on this aspect of a player's premium.

Mal van Schaick
33 Posted 20/12/2022 at 17:30:54
lliman Ndiaye. Age 22 Senegal. Playing at Sheffield united. Attacking midfielder. 9 goals 4 assists. Would be worth a punt.

We should be starting to think of keeping players who are decent and adding to the squad to grace our New Stadium. We may have new owners by then?

Darren Hind
34 Posted 20/12/2022 at 17:52:38
If Tom Davies is offered a new contract it will be down to the fact that his record is vastly superior to all those managers who have played him here, there and everywhere, once they realised the players they spent fortunes on were fucking awful and kept losing
Kieran Kinsella
35 Posted 20/12/2022 at 18:13:29
Hilarious. Tom and Carlo together won nothing. Carlo post Tom, champions league win. Koeman post Tom, League of Nations win, Silva post Tom championship promotion, so clearly Tom is the keeper in this mix.
Trevor Peers
36 Posted 20/12/2022 at 18:18:25
Dale @32.
Your analysis of the modern transfer market is very plausible and one of the main reasons I refuse to go to watch Everton matches these days. Increasingly we're expected to watch the dross instead of the cream.

The depths of mediocrity isn't pretty. Although I do still watch on TV. We missed the boat to success a long time ago. Who knows maybe a new stadium can change our income streams and our fortunes.

Darren Hind
37 Posted 20/12/2022 at 18:22:04
"Bette Davies"... "Red card waiting to happen"... "league 1 player"

I used to get annoyed when they hammered our young apprentice. Now I take great pleasure out of seeing the people who systematically leveled seriously vindictive nonsense at him trying to get their heads around his record.

I guess that what happens when you abandon free thinking for the bandwagon

Gavin Johnson
38 Posted 20/12/2022 at 18:22:52
I agree with Sam, I think Gyorokus is probably the best bet out of the market we currently occupy. Diaz from Blackburn isn't a No.9 and scores goals from the left side, so the Coventry man is probably better as a Rondon replacement.

A loan move for Jordon Sancho would be an exciting signing. I also hope there's something in the rumours we want George Hall from Birmingham.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
39 Posted 20/12/2022 at 18:26:20
Given our history and lack of a goalscorer, I can see us making a bid for Toney in January 🤦‍♂️
Tony Everan
41 Posted 20/12/2022 at 18:39:24
Iwobi has scored 5 goals in 98 Premier League games for Everton. Recently he has been better and there has been an improvement, will that continue?

This season he has one 1 goal and 5 assists in our 15 games which is not so good on the scoring side but ok on the assisting.

He has looked more committed and puts in a massive shift every game. I think it is this that has earned him the most respect.

Like Kieran above I am not totally convinced as Sigurdsson had slightly less work rate but was far more influential goal wise. We really need an AM player who can bring this. On balance I think it’s probably good business to give him the new contract it strengthens the squad. Maybe somehow linking rewards to his performances?

Gordon is a different kettle of fish, he comes in for a lot of criticism but I love the boy. He’s got talent , an attitude, he’s desperate do well, he had slightly lost his focus since the summer distractions. His new contract should again be a better basic and incremental rises linked to performances. If he is as good as he thinks he is he should have no problem with that.

I think with this new stability his focus will come back and he will continue his upward trajectory. It would be great to see him brush off the previous speculation and push on again in the second half of he season and make an impact for us. Signing a quality striker ( or DCL returning strong) will really help Anthony too.

With regards new signings we need a quality striker with presence , someone strong enough to receive the ball and fight off centre backs whilst retaining possession to turn or distribute back to midfield or out wide . He’s got to be mobile , aerially strong and bring all important goals . Is this too much to be asking ? I’m unsure who fits the bill who we could plausibly get .

This has got to be the no1 focus , we can’t take the eye off the ball as this one player could make the difference between mid table and a relegation dogfight.

Then seeing as it’s Christmas

I’d love Kudus too , if not Ismailia Sarr in the January Sales .

Terry Downes
42 Posted 20/12/2022 at 18:58:23
When are we going to give Ellis Simms a go instead of being linked with shyte ?
Dale Self
43 Posted 20/12/2022 at 19:29:50
Trevor 36, thanks for reading that. I guess my perspective is that we don't give enough consideration to how difficult it is to come up with a successful strategy once the club has worked itself into an overvalued squad. It can happen a number of ways but once you run short of tradeable assets your remaining options get bleak in a hurry and this is the Premier League; no one feels sorry for you.
Danny O’Neill
44 Posted 20/12/2022 at 19:33:03
I'm comfortable with Tom Davies being offered a new contract.

I've criticised Tom on more than one occasion in the past, just as I would any player for individual performances. Is he the standard we want to be at? Quite simply, no. Is he a good player to have in this current Everton squad. Yes. Absolutely. I know in the cut throat business of Premier League football, sentiment doesn't come into it, but since he emerging as a youngster, like a lot of Everton players, he's played under several managers. Excuses some will say. I don't for one minute think Tom would have been a top, top player, but I believe that will have impacted his development and other players' time at Everton.

As for Anthony Gordon, he's 21 and had a dip in form after a good season in difficult circumstances. It's often harder to shine in a poorly performing team, but he was one of the few who gave us drive and has hit a few goals this term in a goal shy team. Those who watched him will know that. Also, and again, possibly irrelevant to some in terms of footballing ability, but always amongst the first over to the fans along with Mykolenko even when we were baying for the sacrificial blood of the former Spanish manager.

Both Tom and Anthony give a shit about this club. As does the adopted Ukrainian scouser.

When you look at our squad, as well as the experience of Coady, Tarkowski and Gueye, there has been investment in young players with potential:

Patterson (21)
Mykolenko (23)
Onana (21)
Gordon (21)
McNeil (21)
Vinagre (23)
Garner (21)

That's not mentioning the fringe youngsters of Mills, Warrington, Branthwaite, Price and Cannon.

Iwobi, Holgate and Gray are hardly past it at 26 either. And if we can find some super glue to keep him together, at 25, Calvert-Lewin is hardly approaching the knackers yard just yet. Shame about Mina. 28 isn't a bad age for a centre back.

Let's not batter these young players before they've started or developed or settled into new surroundings. We've been there before.

Robert Williams
45 Posted 20/12/2022 at 20:05:10
Danny @ 11 Totally agree,

I thought that Croatian goalie was excellent – go get him. As far as Pickford is concerned, not fussed if he went, so long as the price is right – always a potential mishap looming in his locker.

While I'm at it, may I wish all TWebbers and all fellow Evertonians a very Happy Xmas, a win against the Wolves and a successful New Year – we've suffered enough for one millennia.

David Thomas
46 Posted 20/12/2022 at 20:07:02
Tom Davies is 25 this summer and has been in and around our first team for 8 seasons.

He's played approx 170 games and scored approx 7 goals with approx 5 assists.

Despite this we still have fans thinking it wouldn't be bad business if he got a new deal.

Can anyone else hand on heart really see any club with any ambition offering him a new contract or do you think they would have got rid of him years ago?

At what point will he stop being considered a youngster who needs time to develop? When he gets to 27/28, can we judge him then or will it still be considered by some to be picking on the young local lads?

Steve Shave
47 Posted 20/12/2022 at 20:19:42
Ed - agree mate, Steve Brown @13 makes the most sense here. We have to protect our assets. If Iwobi continued his form for us but left on a free you'd all be up in arms. Its always a risk but in my opinion Alex has earned it.

As for Gordon that is more interesting. Maybe the club feel him getting his head turned illuminated to him his relatively low current contract (compared to what was being offered by Chelsea) and that by backing him we will see the Gordon from last season? Again, another risk, he might not kick on any further and warm our bench for years or he might crank it up a gear or two and actually become worth the money quoted for him in the summer. As bad as our board are I don't envy them making some of these calls.

As for Pickford, his stock is high. If he isn't going to sign then sell him in the summer for good coin and reinvest. Being a selling club is where we are right now, the very least we can do is get good at it.

Kunal Desai
48 Posted 20/12/2022 at 20:25:56
Where is this magic tree of money appearing from? The only way we spend is through player outgoings first, that's the way this club operates. Sell-to-buy policy. So unless Pickford or Calvert-Lewin are leaving in this window (which is highly unlikely) it will be very cheap options or loans to try and get us over the line this season.

Gordon signing an extension only means that, if another club comes sniffing in the summer, they will look to pay a higher fee – probably one that isn't rumoured anywhere near to the one Chelsea were willing to pay in the summer but still a commandable fee.

Gavin Johnson
49 Posted 20/12/2022 at 20:36:47
On the subject of Tom Davies, I'd be more inclined to give his uncle Alan a contract.
Tony Everan
50 Posted 20/12/2022 at 20:38:31

McNeil is an arlarse 23.

Agree with the point made, let's see how these young players develop with some stability. I think it works two ways, they'll get the time and patience if it is reciprocated with hard work, focus and desire to do their best for the club. And... produce something, show us something, give us something to feed on. Even when things aren't going to plan.

Robert Williams
51 Posted 20/12/2022 at 20:49:40
SS47 - "Being a selling club is where we are right now"

As indeed we should be: sell high, buy low, make a buck and get shot of the deadwood – including Tom, he must be worth £3M of anybody's money. Same applies to Calvert-Lewin – deadmeat – he peaked a couple of years ago and should be sold to a club who will pay him for a part-time role and allow him to work on his fashion image.

Who knows, there may be link up with Tom, like there was with those two Mancs years ago – Best and Summerbee, I believe – but they were class players, unlike our two strutters.

Nick Page
52 Posted 20/12/2022 at 21:08:25
Hopefully Kenwright will be nowhere near any of the transfers, if they do happen. One can but hope. If we don’t bring in at least one striker I’m afraid we’ll get relegated, quite convincingly too given two of the teams below us have changed their manager and the other has started to turn things around.
Darren Hind
53 Posted 20/12/2022 at 21:12:35

Not me. I put up Tom Davies's official records.

Its up to his critics to explain them.

They won't because they cant'. The "red card waiting to happen" doesn't actually get sent off. The Division 1 player has only ever played in the Premier League.

It`s all very confusing for them.

Kieran Kinsella
54 Posted 20/12/2022 at 21:15:23

Precisely, plus his 170 games mean he is going to want a decent wage. So why not cut him loose and rely on one of the younger players (Warrington or Whitaker) to see if they make?

Worst case they're no better than him but at least the wages are less. Best case they're better than him.

Danny O’Neill
55 Posted 20/12/2022 at 21:17:37
I stand corrected on McNeil's age, Tony @50.

A lot of young players in our squad.

We will have to be patient with them.

Enjoy the ride, Blues.

Don Alexander
56 Posted 20/12/2022 at 22:06:11
That's a very good argument, Dazza (#53), but some watching him on the pitch reckon he doesn't seem capable of real improvement. I tend to agree with their argument. Sorry!
Kieran Kinsella
57 Posted 20/12/2022 at 22:11:15

"Red card waiting to happen"? lol – he'd have to make a tackle first and you yourself recently described him as slow and weak.

Getting red-carded is the last thing he is likely to do. Although it's tied with running quickly, scoring, passing forward or getting an assist.

David Thomas
58 Posted 20/12/2022 at 22:14:43
Darren 53,

Would you give Tom Davies a new contract at the end of the season?

Christy Ring
59 Posted 20/12/2022 at 22:18:07
Regarding Tom Davies, what you see is what you get:, 100% effort... not good enough for some.

Gordon, still not sure, but his contract is more than double Tom's???

Shane Corcoran
60 Posted 20/12/2022 at 22:23:14
I think giving Gordon a contract is telling him that the club see him as worthy of it which they hope will then motivate him to perform to his potential which they hope is a very high level.
Peter Mills
61 Posted 20/12/2022 at 22:31:56
Excellent character though he may be, and a handy squad player, Tom Davies has not shown enough to justify being granted a new contract. Time for a change of club.

As for Alex Iwobi – a tricky one, because he has improved, but from a very low base. Is he now at his peak, and not a particularly high one at that? I'm not sure there would be that many clubs queuing up to sign him.

And if he were to be given a new contract, I fear he would go back to where he was previously, bloody awful. I would offer him a 12-month extension on his contract; if he doesn't fancy that, then let him seek better.

It's time for the club to take charge, not the players.

Darren Hind
62 Posted 20/12/2022 at 22:33:24
David @58,

Honestly? No. Not if I could find somebody better... And I would be very confident that I could find somebody better.

Unfortunately, the fuckwits we have employed as managers haven't been able to do that, despite spending hundreds of millions.

That's the tragedy. The ridiculously disproportionate hammerings of Tom Davies come from people who think he is the cause of our situation. They don't understand his continuing presence is a consequence of it. The guy's only crime is he isn't Pilro, He didn't kill a priest.

He cost four of them their jobs, you know?


Don Alexander
63 Posted 20/12/2022 at 22:51:03
So we all now (see #62), at last agree that Tom Davies isn't good enough to be part of a team to win trophies.

Hallelujah! Let Peace be upon us – to which there's surely no argument.

Sean Kelly
64 Posted 20/12/2022 at 22:55:55
I think it better to look for an improvement over Tom Davies. He may have played under several managers but, like any professional footballer, they have to have entitlement to play in the starting 11.

He has to earn his chance and take it and be hungry and good enough to keep his competitors on the bench. Unfortunately he hasn't done that.

Being a local earns him some credit but, having come up through the ranks, he hasn't pushed on. I would give him a 1-year extension on his current deal to see if he can improve his stats. It's really up to him.

Darren, I know you have a soft spot for Tom but he has to force his way into the team and up his performance levels to stay there.

Mike Gaynes
65 Posted 20/12/2022 at 23:10:23
Davies gave me one of the greatest moments of my life, and I'll always appreciate it, but he is simply not good enough at anything that this club needs to improve.

And at age 24, he's got to know by now that his career lies elsewhere. He has played less than 400 minutes this season. He played less than 400 minutes last season.

With good luck and good health, Tom could have another 400 games to play in his career. He needs to find his level and go play them.

Sam Hoare
66 Posted 20/12/2022 at 23:14:14
I don't have much faith in us getting it right in January. Though, having said that, we were not that far away from landing Mudryk and Kudus last summer, which would have been great.

I have heard that if we'd sold Gordon for £40m then we had Gakpo lined up as a (cheaper) replacement. If only!!

I'm surprised that people bemoan Iwobi's new contract. £100k is maybe £10/20k too much but he's been our best outfield player over the last 12 months and is literally our only player who creates anything from open play (whilst also working darn hard and doing a decent job defensively).

No way Gordon deserves £100k though, he's not done much and has regressed over the last few months.

Tom Bowers
67 Posted 20/12/2022 at 23:21:08
Tom Davies can play a bit… and that is about it.

He is one of many players who has burst on to the scene only to flounder when push comes to shove. He just doesn't cut the mustard as a top Premier League player – and that can be said of others who have gone in the last 12 months and a few who are still here.

We are all hoping, obviously, that Lampard will still turn things around but, if they cannot beat a poor Wolves side next Monday, then I fear we are in for another nail-biting relegation battle.

As for Southgate, his failure to regularly start in-form players like Mount, Maddison and Trippier severely restricted England and quite honestly he should have manned up and stepped down.

Darren Hind
68 Posted 20/12/2022 at 23:35:46
I have a soft spot for Tom Davies? News to me.

But I do have a healthy regard for common sense. You could count on one hand the number of players we've signed (for big money) capable of bringing success. Actually, you could still do that if you chopped of 3-4 fingers.

You can point the finger at all the big money failures and the soft twats who paid astronomical fees for them... Or you can hammer away at the guy who cost nothing and keeps getting asked to pick up the pieces.

It's a free country.

Dale Self
69 Posted 21/12/2022 at 00:23:46
I honestly don't know why but I've missed this. Don't change one fucking bit TW.


Oh and by the way, not going down.

Don Alexander
70 Posted 20/12/2022 at 01:49:00
Dazza (#68),

You've extolled for years your total adoration for what you revere as the allegedly fabulous "Everton-ness" of Barkley, Davies, Unsworth, Ferguson and Lawd-only-knows how many other Everton players who've gone on to cement their reputations as bog-standard, as best, in whatever role in the world of professional football they choose to try to perform in.

(And please you could tell us where your favourites Unsworth and Ferguson now are career-wise since months ago stepping out from under the Kenwright-always-self-serving umbrella?)

It's laudable to a self-serving persona, as exemplified by Kenwright, but is way off, sadly, in terms of the real world in which we this season, once again, have to endure yet another abject struggle against relegation.

Kieran Kinsella
71 Posted 21/12/2022 at 01:56:00

I was surprised to see Unsie go Jacques Cousteau and take Oldham fathoms below to unseen depths since Dazza the wise had him down as some kind of Evertonian Alexander The Great.

Also puzzled that Dunc hasn't been snapped up by Real to replace “The busted Flush”. Funny old game...

Dupont Koo
72 Posted 21/12/2022 at 01:57:19
I'm still of the opinion that this window should be outgoings-driven, which has already been kick-started by the departure of Rondon.

Expiring Contracts in 6 months: Mina, Davies, Doucoure, Townsend, Lonergan.

Townsend is still injured, so he is a sunk cost along with Lonergan. If we can get most, if not all, of the salaries of Mina, Doucoure, Davies, along with Keane & Holgate, off our books next month (that is an estimated total of £350k per week), then we can seek to bring in quality additions and promote some young guns simultaneously (although I'm more keen to have Cannon and Price loaned out to play against pros in the Football League on a weekly basis, instead of being left rotting on the bench and in the non-competitive U21 games).

Kieran Kinsella
73 Posted 21/12/2022 at 03:51:18

I haven't seen it mentioned on here but Townsend is in some legal trouble. Apparently the route to his home was temporarily blocked due to road works and he crashed his car through a barrier and got arrested.

Seems a bit out of character as he seems like a level-headed smart sort of fellow. I'm actually a fan of his even while he's inconsistent because, unlike Tom, Gomes etc, he puts a shift in, rather like Lennon, even if he's not feeling the magic on the day.

But this kind of stupid reckless behaviour is not something I want to see from anyone at the club.

Mike Gaynes
74 Posted 21/12/2022 at 03:59:10
Gotta disagree, Dupont. Outgoings won't make us better and won't keep us up.

Yes, reducing payroll is important, but the key to a successful window will be the players we bring in, not the players we send out.

Don Alexander
75 Posted 21/12/2022 at 04:03:43
Keiran (#71)

Some absurd Toffees are still willing to swallow the shite that Kenwright's got mega-rich in providing for decades, namely in endlessly extolling the "we get Everton" mantra that Kenwright himself always perpetuates in his fatuous defence.

Instead, they berate professionally self-serving (by definition) managers, coaches and players who recognise and take advantage of any muppet they can screw to the max as their employer, namely Kenwright.

Really weird, but there again some people in crappy jobs will never hear a bad word spoken against those in management taking advantage of them.

Go figure, cos it's beyond me.

Kieran Kinsella
76 Posted 21/12/2022 at 04:15:21

Do you remember that Monty Python sketch, “I know my place”?

My Great Grandad was a brickie, fought in two wars (Boer and WW1) saw all his brothers-in-law and best man at his wedding killed, not quite a pauper but nothing to write home about but bizarrely a dyed-in-the-wool Tory.

Some ordinary folks on their forklifts and what have you seem to get dazzled by a bit of show biz razzmatazz and taken in by smoke-and-dagger celebs like Billy Bullshit.

Laurie Hartley
77 Posted 21/12/2022 at 04:26:28
We need a replacement for Sigurdsson as well as a centre-forward.

I can't see it happening personally. I sincerely hope I am wrong; otherwise, we are in for a torrid time.

Kieran Kinsella
78 Posted 21/12/2022 at 04:46:35

You're right, we need it. For all the Iceman's hiding from the ball, he was good for 15 assists or goals each season. Neither Onana nor Gueye come close. That said, neither do our “attackers” Gray, McNeil or Gordon.

I'm just hoping against hope Frank has become an alchemist during the break and Kevin has unearthed half a dozen Seamus Colemans. Maybe Tom Cannon can be our Luke Skywalker and defy our Yoda's saying he's not ready by taking out Vader (aka the rest of the Premier League).

John Keating
79 Posted 21/12/2022 at 07:12:33
The only thing we can hope for is that the business we all know that needs to be done is done in the first few days if the window
Lampard et al have known for months who they want out and in. Players, agents and Clubs have to have been in talks for months.

Get business done quickly and, fingers crossed, points on the board early and away from the Bottom 3.

Sean Roe
80 Posted 21/12/2022 at 07:18:51
1. A striker
2. A midfield playmaker
3. At least one winger who can cross a ball and score a goal
4. Sell Gordon to Chelsea
Danny Baily
81 Posted 21/12/2022 at 07:25:33
We need a striker first and foremost. Someone who can get in behind defences. It's really hard to fit Maupay into a front 3 (or McNeil for that matter). These lads will need moving on, along with Keane and Mina.
Tony Abrahams
82 Posted 21/12/2022 at 07:37:50
Reading through the debate, something that was constantly in my own head, was explained perfectly by Darren @62. They don't understand his continued presence is a consequence, rather than the cause of our current predicament.

Tom Davies is a very lucky boy because he's going to be very comfortable for the rest of his life with the wages he's received from Everton. But Tom Davies (the footballer) hasn't been so lucky, imo, because I personally think the instability surrounding our football club has probably affected him more than any other player at Everton.

Liverpool got £18 Million, for Nico Williams, whilst Everton got nothing for Jonjoe Kenny. The only difference imo, is one player was at a very ‘professional' football club, whilst the other was at a very turbulent football club.

Tom Davies needs to get away from Everton, to try and build on what was once a very promising football career. It wouldn't surprise me if he became a very good player in a much more settled football club. We will see...

Everton will offer him a new contract because they would be very foolish not to (imo) but Davies needs to leave, so he can try and get regular first-team football somewhere else, just like Kenny has done.

Ian Bennett
83 Posted 21/12/2022 at 07:41:46
Gees – need moving on? We've only just bought them in.

It just proves how poor our recruitment is that we want summer signings out through the door after 15 games.

Unable to attract or find any sort of quality despite paying good money. No other club in world football is this bad with value.


That's an extensive list of duds that contribute precious little, but is costing the club tens of millions a year.

Dean Williams
84 Posted 21/12/2022 at 07:48:47
I know this probably doesn't mean much, boys.

I was talking to Pickford in Selfridges last night, his missus and mine apparently love silly-priced shoes. I did ask him if he was signing a new deal? He said more than likely not.

Darren Hind
86 Posted 21/12/2022 at 08:14:27
I've never lauded the ability of people who didn't get the Goodison gig. We didn't get to see how they would have done.

I did advocate them because I knew they could not do worse than the people we paid hundreds of millions to. I stand by that.

It amazes me that people bleat and whine if you criticise the managers (the chefs). Apparently It's not their fault, because Kenwright (the restaurant owner) hired them.

Yet it is okay to have spent the past 5 years hammering away at the kitchen porters and bottle washers they don't know about. Why?..... Because Kenwright hired them. You really couldn't make it up.

I googled FFFF – Finch Farm Fact Finders. "Lovable people, However. They do have a tendency to chase themselves up their own arses."

Barkley was hounded out of this club, 5 years ago. With the exception of James (for about 2days), the team hasnt had a creative bone in its body since.

Unsworth did what so many screamed he should be doing. He has gone out to prove himself. Ferguson was ousted from the first team picture when Frank brought his own team in about a year ago.

Instead of FFFFs following the ex-employees in an attempt to prove they were right all along, it may be a good idea to look at our club's situation now they have gone.

Every Evertonian is shitting himself because he knows that, even though it's not Chrimbo yet, there is still a very real possibility that we are going down.

Ferguson. Unsworth and Barkley – the real culprits – have gone now. Axe and Smash have had their wishes granted.... this is what it looks like.

Robert Tressell
87 Posted 21/12/2022 at 08:38:22
Ian #83, not sure why McNeil and Calvert-Lewin are on your list of duds.

McNeil has only been here 5 minutes. Calvert-Lewin is a proven Premier League striker.

Sean #80, The club is clearly trying to sign a striker in the mould of Calvert-Lewin (which should have been our priority signing this summer). It will happen. But if it's Beto, Dia or Gyökeres (or similar), then we're prioritising cost and physical attributes over ability. That means it's a short-term fix, not a route up the table into the Top 10.

Thelwell and Lampard obviously wanted Jackson of Villarreal or Gibbs-White over summer – to provide goals from midfield. I doubt that position is being looked at for January.

As for wingers we have 4(ish) in Gray, Gordon, McNeil and Iwobi – and good full-backs in Mykolenko and Patterson. That's good enough for now. We won't sell Gordon because no-one is interested in buying.

Money will be generated over the summer by selling Pickford. If we don't sell Pickford, it might mean we're feeding off scraps again.

Danny O’Neill
88 Posted 21/12/2022 at 08:38:30
For all his critics, how we could have done with Sigurdsson last season and now. I think in that 5-4 Tottenham FA Cup match, he scored a penalty and was involved in all of the goals.

Tony, that's an interesting take on Tom Davies moving and your reference to Jonjoe Kenny. I think Tom would fair well on the continent in the Dutch or German league, where players are afforded more time on the ball. That could be an option for him that I hadn't thought about.

Jerome Shields
89 Posted 21/12/2022 at 08:42:54
Everton's contribution cannot be underestimated, since most of the squad needs to be replaced. Just rumours on top of rumours we will get till the end of the January transfer window.

Winston Williamson
90 Posted 21/12/2022 at 08:51:15
Not been on TW in ages. Not much changed, but I guess this reflects not much has changed at EFC.

Kenwright is still a 1970s Chairman in charge of a 21st Century Premier League club.

Tom Davies is still getting stick, even though he's no worse than Doucoure (£22M), Allan (£20M), Gbamin (£22M), Schniderlin (£20M) – that's over £80M, folks, and Tom has out-lasted them all apart from Doucoure, and he's on his way out.

At least Tom gives a shit, even if he is bang average!

Calvert-Lewin is still injured; we still can't score goals.

Merry Christmas everyone! Hahaha, we must be bonkers!!

Sean Roe
91 Posted 21/12/2022 at 08:51:28
Robert @ 87,

There were rumours circulating yesterday in some of the papers that Chelsea are after Gordon, but I guess it is silly season again.

I would like to see someone come in that can knit defence and attack together. I fear that, if we just get another striker, we will still be in the same boat as we have nobody in the squad to provide the ammunition.

Larry O'Hara
92 Posted 21/12/2022 at 09:16:33
Dean (84) — not sure if this means anything either but I saw Dixie Dean and his wife shopping for clogs in Birkenhead yesterday and he said he was still annoyed Bernie Wright wasn’t nominated for World Footballer of the Year…
Kim Vivian
93 Posted 21/12/2022 at 09:18:51
" [***] can defend but someone has to kick the ball at the opponent's goal occasionally. 90% of both teams forward passes went to a player wearing a gold shirt, [***] seem quite clueless going forward. I sure hope the owner buys a couple of goal-scoring forwards or next season our local derbies will be against [insert team]"

Copied and pasted from BBC HYS after the Gillingham Wolves report last night - Insert "Everton" and your choice of Championship teams and I hope we're not foretelling a ToffeeWeb comment come Tuesday.

Seems like we're not alone as fans.

Danny O’Neill
94 Posted 21/12/2022 at 09:31:42
I'm with you, Robert. I'm not sure we can judge McNeil just yet. Give him better support from midfield and a striker to aim for and we might see a different player. But either way, it's early days.

People were slating Mykolenko after 2 games last season and Patterson wasn't rated as a Premier League player by Ferguson. Caveat unfounded speculation hearsay rumour mongering.

At £1.5M, I'm not sure we can label Calvert-Lewin an expensive dud. Yes, he's not got the completeness of Harry Kane, but he's a good striker when fit. Where is that Superglue?

Interestingly, how is Unsworth getting on and what is Duncan doing? Curiosity more than anything. I haven't been following. I saw that Ross is at Nice, along with Kasper Schmeichel, Schneiderlin and Aaron Ramsey.

Brian Harrison
95 Posted 21/12/2022 at 09:58:04
So, after the most football stress-free run up to Xmas I can remember for a long time, it all starts again in 5 days time.

Talking and listening to fellow Blues, it seems like many have the same thoughts, that we are in for another nerve-jangling end to the season.

I think the next 4 games will have a huge say as to whether Lampard stays or goes, and yes we all agree that changing managers so often hasn't helped but, if you keep appointing the wrong managers, then that's what happens.

I have to admit I was excited when Lampard became our manager and that excitement grew after wins over Brentford in the FA Cup and Leeds in the Premier League, scoring 7 goals in those 2 games and only conceding 1 goal. But sadly that's as far as the new manager bounce lasted and, as the weeks and months went by, Lampard's tactics became more and more negative.

Even in our last home game against Palace, that negative approach continued even though most of us believed that a win was vital for our survival. And only being 2 down at half-time made Lampard introduce 2 attacking players which helped turn the game on its head.

I hope he has learned that the Goodison faithful want to see a more attack-minded side and he ditches the overly defensive tactics he employed last season which didn't work.

Tony Abrahams
97 Posted 21/12/2022 at 10:10:31
Sean @91, with Anthony Gordon now expected to sign a new contract, then maybe his agent is just giving it one last push.

I was told that Gordon was probably going to be signing a new deal about 10 days ago, but I wasn't really interested, because I was more concerned about trying to find out whether Everton are still being sold.

I'm not really that interested in much else at the minute (until the football starts again) but I was told that Kenwright, (honestly) kept putting the price up on Chelsea, until Chelsea eventually turned around and asked him who they were actually bidding against?

If this is true, then I doubt they bid anywhere near the rumoured £40 million; if they had, then I'm sure Everton would have sold him.

Ian Hollingworth
98 Posted 21/12/2022 at 10:31:38
Dean @84,

I would not be surprised. You have to ask why would Pickford sign a further contract at Everton?

He would surely want a chance at a club who might win something or at least compete to win something.

Ray Roche
99 Posted 21/12/2022 at 10:35:29
Mention of Ross Barkley, he’s now 29. What a wasted career. That’s what putting your trust in an agent can do for you.
And not keeping your dick in your pants, allegedly.
Danny O’Neill
100 Posted 21/12/2022 at 10:36:43
It has sadly been a welcome break Brian, but in a warped sort of way, I can't wait to get back to Everton.

I've said countless times, I was on the fence with Lampard and remain so.

Aside from watching the World Cup and enjoying some of the football, I too have been more focussed on the off the field matters with Everton in the past few weeks.

Back to business on Monday. 3 points will make the landscape look a bit different.

Ian Hollingworth
101 Posted 21/12/2022 at 10:45:24
Danny @94 Unsy is manager at Oldham (since Sept) he has Ebbrell and Jeffers there as his coaches.
They are currently 4th bottom of the National league.

So I guess he has taken everything he has learned at Everton into the job lol

Ajay Gopal
102 Posted 21/12/2022 at 11:16:32
I think Tom Davies is a decent to good premier league midfielder. There are worse problems than Tom Davies in the Everton squad. He has never been given a consistent run of games that, for example Alex Iwobi was afforded by Ancellotti, Benitez and now Lampard.

Alex Iwobi's Everton PL Career: 98 games - 5 goals
Tom Davies PL Career - 143 games - 6 goals

Clearly, both are not world beaters, but there isn't much separating them in terms of goals. Iwobi has more assists, but Tom Davies has contributed much more defensively. I agree with Tony (82) though, it is best for his career if he moved on from Everton because he is clearly lacking in confidence at the moment. Teams at the lower end of the PL would find him a solid player. I still think has a role to play at Everton - a solid 6/10 professional, nothing less, nothing more. But a far more reliable performer than the real dross that we have had before (as others have mentioned) - Delph, Gbamin, Schneiderlin, Walcott, Bernard, etc.

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
103 Posted 21/12/2022 at 11:20:00

29 years old and worth north of £30m.
A bet a few on here would be happy with that.

(and if you had that much, what would you do with it? Spend it at the bookies or the pub?)

David Thomas
104 Posted 21/12/2022 at 11:24:15
Tony 82,

Why would Everton be very foolish not to offer Davies a new contract in your opinion?

Eddie Dunn
105 Posted 21/12/2022 at 11:35:37
danny- regarding Siggi. As much as I liked him, it was interesting to see him focussed and having such an impact against Spurs ( a former club of his who jettisoned him).

It made me wonder just how much effort he put in in his other games. I think it showed how some players can stroll around at a mid-table club with little competition for places.

Ian Bennett
106 Posted 21/12/2022 at 11:51:01
Robert 87 - I was carrying on Danny's post in 81 mate tbh.

My point is that we still have a huge list of players that produce absolutely nothing despite exiting a lorry load on Frees etc.

Would I move on Maupay and Mcneil? Yes, both shouldn't have been bought and neither convince me that they've anything to offer over Championship level.

A starting XI with McNeil, Maupay, Davies, Doucoure, Holgate and Keane next season means we've been relegated.

Sean Roe
107 Posted 21/12/2022 at 11:53:23
Tony @ 97,

Under normal circumstances I wouldn't want to see him go but currently he isn't very productive and we can't afford to wait to find out if he reaches the heights we all hope for in my opinion.

Kenwright playing hardball all of a sudden. Maybe Lampard does have a voice then as he seems to really like him?

Steve Brown
108 Posted 21/12/2022 at 11:58:35
Tony @ 82, it's interesting isn't it that Kenny is playing regularly for Hertha Berlin in the Bundesliga. I know they are bottom half but is a competitive league.

I always thought Tom Davies and Kenny were neat and tidy players who perhaps lacked the physicality and pace for the Premier League at the highest level. Perhaps Tom will find his next challenge abroad.

You are dead right that the instability in the club has negatively impacted Davies. I would go further and say it has negatively impacted the development of all our young players over the last 5 years. Their path to the first team accelerated and receded according to the personal opinion of each manager and the level of pressure they were under.

Darren says that the criticism of these younger players has been over the top – it has. There have been endless debates on here on where blame lies – the board, the managers, the DoF, the recruitment teams, the medical teams and the players.

If we as fans are going to zone in on the players, then it is the senior players who should face the scorn. Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Bolasie, Tosun, Allan, Doucoure, Williams, Keane, Klaassen, Gomes – terrible standards, zero professional pride, hid in tough periods and took millions out of the club. Imagine being a young player and trying to find someone at the club to aspire to with that shower of shite as your role models?

Darren Hind
109 Posted 21/12/2022 at 11:59:05
Steve Brown,

Your observations in post 108 sounded like a Billy Connolly sketch. So painfully accurate, they actually made me laugh.

Ray Roche
110 Posted 21/12/2022 at 12:19:45
Phi l@103

There's no way Barkley is currently worth ‘north of £30M'. Chelsea cancelled his contract and last time I looked he was stinking the gaff out at Nice.

I have no doubt that his agent advised him to sit tight at Everton and it cost us about £15M. He's achieved nothing, on the pitch, since he left.

Christine Foster
111 Posted 21/12/2022 at 12:19:58
As succinctly as possible:

To make a major difference to the team, we need a creative midfielder and a striker who can play as a target man when needed or as part of a combination with Calvert-Lewin as a two-man striker option, coverage up front, options in the middle and an outlet for defence.

Tony Abrahams
113 Posted 21/12/2022 at 12:30:56
Brands could have sold Kenny for around £5 or 6 million, but refused because he wanted more money, and sent him on loan to Celtic instead. He had a bad loan at Celtic, entered the last year of his contract, before eventually turning down the offer of a new contract, and chose to leave for nothing instead.

This is why I think Everton would be foolish to let Davies leave for nothing, David @104, because the kid is definitely worth a bit of money imo.

Liverpool sell a player like Nico Williams for £18 million, whilst Everton let both Kenny and Davies go for absolute zero? Is this what well-run clubs like Everton really do!?

Steve @108, I'd say, since Moshiri came into the club, it has been this way. (The only real plan seems to have been that we've got a bit of money now.)

Am I also the only person who thinks Lampard should bring back Branthwaite and start playing him?

Tony Abrahams
114 Posted 21/12/2022 at 12:40:11
Those players Steve mentioned have probably cost Everton Football Club over £200 million before wages, and that's with even them raising about £15 million through the sales of Allen, Klaassen and Schneiderlin.


Robert Tressell
115 Posted 21/12/2022 at 12:46:55
We clearly need a forward to stand in for Calvert-Lewin. But if Lampard can't then organise the squad into a first XI that carries a threat and defends as a unit, then he's a crap manager.

I'm not expecting scintillating football or a long run of wins but, if we sign, say, Beto, then he should have enough to keep us out of trouble and getting towards 12th-ish place through home form and some gritty points away.

Put it this way: Allardyce would have no trouble keeping us up with a transfer window and half season to go. Dyche kept Burnley in the top flight for years with a terrible squad compared to ours.

Yes, we need better players for a Top 10 finish but we've got to expect more from the coach / manager.

Will Mabon
116 Posted 21/12/2022 at 13:07:44
Ray @ 110,

I think Phil referred to Barkley's personal wealth.

Steve Brown
117 Posted 21/12/2022 at 13:15:45
Tony @ 114, I couldn’t bring myself to add it up but it almost made me cry when you estimated it as £200 million before wages.

It would be a mistake not to tie Davies, Iwobi and Gordon into new contracts as it ensures we get a good transfer fee if they leave. Chelsea and the Red Shite operate this model very well.

Darren, shower of shite was the politest way I could think of to describe them! I totally despise the majority of them.

David Thomas
118 Posted 21/12/2022 at 13:16:23
Hi Tony,

So in your opinion, we should offer Davies a new contract that ties him to the club for another few years in the hope that another club will come in for him and offer us a certain amount of millions for him?

Steve Brown
119 Posted 21/12/2022 at 13:21:34
David, that is exactly what we should do.
Steve Brown
120 Posted 21/12/2022 at 13:23:37
We have invested 13 years into Tom Davies, and now we need to get a return on that investment.
Tony Everan
121 Posted 21/12/2022 at 13:47:55

We keep banging the same drum. The acquisition of a striker like Beto or a similar profile is what is required to get us to the staging post of 12th. Any shift in focus from it and they are inviting a more serious relegation dogfight than last season.

Then we kick on with a couple more quality additions in the summer.

Kieran Kinsella
122 Posted 21/12/2022 at 13:51:34

Tom is free in 6 months. If there was a market for him, surely someone would have bid in the summer or now and tried to get him on the cheap before he possibly signs a new contract.

Paul Richardson
123 Posted 21/12/2022 at 13:52:11
Forget Ivan Toney, a player I suggested for us when he was with Peterborough who would be the perfect stand-in and foil for Calvert-Lewin – because he's currently facing 262 alleged FA breaches of betting regulations.

I wonder, given our Tony Kay (what an Evertonian he could have become) disaster in the 1960s, what sort of punishment Toney may expect if he is found guilty?

Danny O’Neill
124 Posted 21/12/2022 at 13:52:21
Your Liverpool example, Tony, speaks volumes. Like Tottenham, they are no mugs when it comes to selling on players and they haven't been afraid to sell their best players. They just make sure they get a decent wedge and reinvest wisely.

Tottenham. £85M for Bale against an outlay of £7M and doubled their money on Modric. And they are no worse off than when they had both those players. Liverpool have progressed since selling the likes of Torres and Suarez.

We seem to generally buy just above average players expensively, sell on the cheap or let the contracts run down to the point we get nothing.

Sorry, Darren, but that isn't all down to manager after manager. Someone somewhere at a higher level is signing off on that (non-)strategy.

On Tom Davies, I'll reiterate, I'm happy to keep him. I like his attitude and he's a decent player for the here and now. I think the only time I really flipped and ranted at him was that Leicester away game a couple of years ago when we lost 2 - 1 in injury time having been in the lead. If I recall correctly, he gave away possession in the build-up to both goals so I vented my frustration at him at the time.

There's my confession for the day for the sake of balance and honesty. I've done it with many a player and Michael Keane worries me continuously, although when he plays well, I'll credit him. Not that he needs my credit.

Going back to Sigurdsson. I always got the impression he had quality but didn't show it consistently enough. Only in glimpses.

Very different players, but a bit like Wilfred Zaha. Comfortable being the big fish in a small pond, not so much being under the spotlight in a bigger lake amongst bigger expectation.

Peter Mills
125 Posted 21/12/2022 at 15:04:38
I'm currently reading a biography of Bob Lord, the late chairman of Burnley, who was renowned for ensuring the club reared their own players and selling them when their value was high. He had no time for players he considered to be greedy or lazy.

At the 1962 FA Cup final, when Burnley took on Spurs, the Queen's husband introduced himself:- “Hello, I'm Philip, Duke of Edinburgh”. The reply came back:- “I'm Bob, Lord of Burnley”.

Darren Hind
126 Posted 21/12/2022 at 15:16:31

You say the same thing every day. You dont have to say sorry to me every time you exonerate a manager. We disagree. That's all

That has been the strategy, Give the managers and DoFs backing and let them have the players they want to sign.

You say that somebody higher up the ladder is signing off this spending but, if they didn't, you would claim they were interfering and not letting the managers have the players they want. You can't have it both ways.

Moshiri has followed the same business model as many many successful businessmen. He has brought in what he thought was a qualified manager and DoF and supported their decisions.

His fault is he has chosen managers who are wholly unsuitable for the job. That said, I don't remember too many on here kicking up fuck when he brought in Koeman, Brands, Walsh and Carlo. They were all welcomed with a fanfare. This wise-after-the-even-stuff I hear from so many is just embarrassing.

BTW, you may want to check those two late Leicester goals on YouTube. Tom Davies does not give up possession for either of them.

Dave Abrahams
127 Posted 21/12/2022 at 15:40:48
Peter (125), A straight talking man Mr. Lord, he gave Everton supporters a bit of stick during the lead up to a Burnley v Everton FA cup game in the early sixties.I was selling rosettes outside the ground and tried to have bit of banter with with him saying “ Come on Bob buy a rosette off a decent Evertonian “ I don’t want a rosette “he replied with snarl, “ Come on Bob”I said “They are only two bob” “Here’s half crown” he replied “Now fuck off and keep your fuckin’ rosette “ I said “Thanks Bob,that will do me,have a nice day” putting the half crown in my pocket. He just glared at me!!
Peter Mills
128 Posted 21/12/2022 at 16:18:58
Blimey Dave, you’ve done well to wring half a dollar out of Bob Lord.

Apparently he had a verbal go at Tony Kay in the tunnel after a match at Turf Moor in which Tony had treated Jimmy McIlroy less than gently. It seems Tony was all for chinning him but was hustled into the dressing room by Harry Catterick.

“Bob Lord of Burnley” - I think you would enjoy it. I’d give it to you, but I’ve only got it on my Kindle. Very best wishes to you, Tony and your family for Christmas.

Ray Roche
129 Posted 21/12/2022 at 16:24:37
Darren @126

Second to last paragraph. Nail squarely on the head.👍🏻

However, if Moshiri’s knowledge, choice etc is questionable then Kenwright, the see all, know all, Prince among Club directors should have offered his advice…,

Craig Harrison
130 Posted 21/12/2022 at 16:28:09
Take a punt on jonathan david. Had a poor world cup so his price may have gone down. Fast, direct, and can score a goal. Buchanan is also worth a shout and don't imagine he would cost a lot either for a winger who will run and tackle all day. Has a lot of skill and speed
Ray Roche
131 Posted 21/12/2022 at 16:32:06
Danny @124

“ Tottenham. £85M for Bale”

I posted on TW a while back when someone mentioned Spurs spending that money, if you look at the dross Spurs spunked much of that money on you might be surprised.

Only Ericsson could be regarded as a great signing, the rest were run of the mill players brought in by Levy.

Danny O’Neill
132 Posted 21/12/2022 at 16:33:42
So we're kind of saying similar, not necessarily the same, thing Darren.

It's the leadership that has failed in appointing the wrong managers. But we can't keep blaming manager after manager?

I could say you say the same thing. You blame the managers.

I look to the clubs strategic layer.

On Tom, having supported signing him on a new contract, I watch the Leicester game. He made a half hearted attempt to win the ball for the first goal, allowing Leicester to counter. He did similar for the second although the edited YouTube clip doesn't show that. Unless you have a more holistic one.

Tom is a decent player who I'd like to see stay at Everton. But just because he is one of us doesn't make him immune from criticism when he has a bad game. He had a bad game that day. Other times he's had good games and played well.

Danny O’Neill
133 Posted 21/12/2022 at 16:45:53
But regularly playing in Europe Ray.

They've only finished below 7th on 3 occasions since 2004 and in that period have finished in the top 4 on 8 occasions; twice in the last 2 seasons and Champions League football.

And playing in arguably the best club stadium in the world right now. If you've been there, you can't help but be impressed.

They've done something right with that money.

Although I do think they are over-dependent on Son and Kane.

Dave Abrahams
134 Posted 21/12/2022 at 16:48:26
Peter (128),I think Bob’s bark was worse than his bite and I had a nice cheeky Scouse smile on my face when I was talking to him,half crown would buy you two pints in those days.He had the last the laugh though with Burnley winning 3-1 after Bobby Collins had put us ahead with a stunning twenty five yard shot, and after a cracking night in Burnley me and my mate missed the last train home and spent the night sleeping in a railway wagon,I hadn’t long been married and my wife wasn’t best pleased————for the next few weeks!,

All the best for Christmas and the New Year to you and all the family especially those grandsons of yours.

Steve Shave
135 Posted 21/12/2022 at 16:56:13
Craig @130 that would be the dream signing for me, David can also play wide as well as up front, I feel we need that sort of versatility right now if Gary or Gordon are off it and DCL actually makes it back to fitness. What on earth is going on with our Dominic?
Kieran Kinsella
136 Posted 21/12/2022 at 17:09:23

I thought Buchanan looked good in the WC too. But looking at his club stats he doesn't seem to produce much. May like an Amokachi/Dumitrescu who excelled in the WC but isn't all that great?

Ray Roche
137 Posted 21/12/2022 at 17:16:08

Danny, I'm not talking about Spurs record in Europe or their stadium or anything other than the Bale money which, let's say, could have been spent wiser. Had that money been invested better then they may well have won something like the Premier League. Imagine, Spurs being Champions for the first time since'd have to be at least 70 to have any decent memories of that event. And the FA Cup in '91.
Rich club, won fuck all for years.

Tony Abrahams
138 Posted 21/12/2022 at 17:25:37
David@118, if something is worth money (sorry Tom, although I’m sure you will know by now that you’re just a commodity!) then it’s very unusual to give it away for nothing?

This is why I expect Everton to offer Tom Davies, a new contract, just like they offered Jonjoe Kenny, a new contract.

Kenny never took up the offer and I will also be very surprised if Tom Davies, takes up the offer.

They both have agents who would have or will be advising them, that they’re worth a lot more money because they are now a free agent, and I expect that because they are free, this will help them make a lot more money elsewhere?

Danny O’Neill
139 Posted 21/12/2022 at 17:32:15
I get what you're saying Ray and we've won 4 league titles since their last one and 9 to their 2.

But sadly, overall, they've won more trophies than us. Discounting Charity / Community Shields, 17 to our 15.

It may not have brought a league title, they may not have spent wisely on that occasion, but they are consistently in the top 6 and more recently, Champions League; a final at one point.

Liverpool spent poorly on a number of occasions, as do most clubs, Everton included.

But over time, those 2 clubs have faired better than Everton in their spending and investment over time.

Brian Wilkinson
140 Posted 21/12/2022 at 17:39:19
Just off topic a mo, has anyone watched the keeper yet on bbc iplayer about Bert Trautman, very good watch and funny in parts.

It has the same feel about it as the other one Sam Hoare had an hand in one of the episodes, was that called the beautiful game, think it was in 6 parts.

I know it is not Everton related, but if your a football fan, we’ll worth a watch, sure many will have already watched it.

Right back to the football, here’s hoping for a Boxing Day win, and a striker or two in the January sales.

Have a great Christmas all ToffeeWebbers, here’s hoping for a better 2023.

David Thomas
141 Posted 21/12/2022 at 17:45:44

If Davies value is as high as you suggest why do you think no one has come in for him over the last 7 or 8 seasons.

Also, what do you think will make it that much more attractive to other clubs if we commit in the summer to paying him for at least say the next three years?

David Thomas
142 Posted 21/12/2022 at 17:51:09
I seem to remember in about 2018 someone had the same idea and did this with Pennington.

If memory serves me right he left in 2021 after his contract expired and didn’t pull any trees up and no one came in for him and we ended up paying 3 more years of wages and got no benefit.

Kieran Kinsella
143 Posted 21/12/2022 at 17:52:40

I’m with David. If as you probably rightly suggest his agent pushes for higher wages, any eventual benefit we get in a transfer fee is offset by said wages. Don’t you think it would be better to give a chance to Price, Warrington or Whitaker? If we don’t we will likely lose them for nothing when their contracts expire and potentially they could be better than Tom.


Same thing with Garbutt

Danny O’Neill
144 Posted 21/12/2022 at 17:59:59
The Keeper is a great film Brian. I recommend it to any football supporter.

Other good documentaries on the various media outlets (Amazon Prime, Netflix, BBC I-Player) are Mi Ciamo Francessco Totti, the Diego Maradona Story and an unassuming one about Tony Kroos.

No hope. Just bring the points home on Monday.

Ed Prytherch
145 Posted 21/12/2022 at 18:01:21
Brian #140, my dad was evacuated from Dunkirk and he was a City fan. He hated all Germans except Bert Trautman
Darren Hind
146 Posted 21/12/2022 at 18:02:12

I never said Tom Davies was above Criticism. I've done it myself. Quite why you claimed he gave up possession for both those Leicester goals is a mystery to me. He didnt even have it. Claiming stuff happened when it didnt is not criticism. Not for me anyway

You more than most were beside yourself when Moshiri brought Carlo in. You were right in there thick of all those the claims that he would bring success. attract better players. Improve the players we had. "A master stoke by moshiri". "What a coup". I heard that a thousand times...But when carlo crept out leaving the club 30 odd million lighter, tumbling down the table after publicly admitting he couldnt improve the players. Dont you think its a bit rich to point the finger at Moshiri for giving you exactly what you wanted ?

Its not just you. Thousands of people were congratulating the guy for bringing in Brands, Walsh and Koeman, only to blame him when it went tits up

It's not a logic I feel I can reason with, so as we enter the season of goodwill I think its better if I stop trying. We'll find something else to argue about in the new year.

Look Danny I don't disagree with everything you post. but you post the most, so you are bound to draw the most responses.

For the record; I thought it was very brave of you to Mention Gylfi Sigurdsson earlier today. That could easily have gone the wrong way, but by keeping your post purely to football. You were able to raise a very valid point

Tony Abrahams
147 Posted 21/12/2022 at 18:11:29
When I wrote my first post I said that I thought Davies should leave, and when I wrote my last post I said I expect Davies to leave!

Davies has played for about seven different first team managers at Everton, and I’m sure he’s made well over one hundred first team appearances since he burst onto the scene, which is a hell of a big difference to Mathew Pennington.

Kieran, that’s exactly why I don’t think Tom Davies will sign mate. I forgot about Garbutt, who made an absolute fortune out of Everton, for a next to nothing return, so that’s two cracking examples of why Everton should get rid of Davies for nothing!

Don Alexander
148 Posted 21/12/2022 at 18:31:26
It's interesting to me that several of us have justifiably identified a number of young players who had their skills honed at FF for years by Kenwright's yes-men, erm, coaches and then left for left for free before going on to never making it anywhere else (just like those yes-men coaches of course).

There's always one who never wavers in support of all those failures of course, unless he feels like criticizing them, which he apparently does, before endlessly barracking any of the rest of us who cast a critical opinion of their own - just as he has.

It's a crazy mixed-up world for sure! Glad I don't live in it.

Danny O’Neill
149 Posted 21/12/2022 at 18:33:19
Fair one Darren. Although I don't think I've personally pointed the finger at Moshiri. More at the current Chairman.

And from me, I'll admit to shooting from the hip on the Leicester game. I just remember at the time being furious and seeing Tom make a couple of mistakes. I can see it in the first goal, but water under the bridge.

I like Tom Davies. I like his attitude and I think he is a good player. I want him to succeed in football. He already has. He's played for Everton at the highest level of English football. More than I can claim. All I have to offer is a trial at Bellefield and representing the Army.

I like the debate Darren and I always think it's best to keep it to the football when talking about players.

David Thomas
150 Posted 21/12/2022 at 18:48:14
I believe Davies earns around £25 to 30k a week. Presumably he would be offered something similar again.

He's 25 in June and been in and around the first team not pulling up any trees for 7 or 8 seasons.

His contract runs out in the summer and, rather than letting him go and filling up a place in the squad for a more productive player, we should give Davies a new contact on the hope that someone comes in and offers us quite a few millions for him?

On that logic, we are best to give him as long a contract as possible as it gives more time for someone to come in for him and offer us millions for him.

I mentioned on a previous post a 3-year contract but, as no one in the last 7 or 8 seasons has offered us millions for him, we are best offering him a 5- to 7-year contract to increase the chances of someone coming in for him.

Darren Hind
151 Posted 21/12/2022 at 18:51:59

He has played well over 100 games. He has played in 143 games and we have lost 45 of them. It was only the 98 we didn't lose.

Evil little bastard. We'd have won the Champions League with all those top signings if it wasn't for him.

Christy Ring
152 Posted 21/12/2022 at 19:03:39
In my defense of Davies, a bit like Barkley, he's the scapegoat who gets slated a lot more than other players who have been worse than him in the same game. There are worse midfielders at the club.
Tony Abrahams
153 Posted 21/12/2022 at 19:21:13
I heard Benitez tried to swap Davies with Longstaff, and Tom said he would sooner stay and fight for his place, but I don't believe he will be having those same thoughts once he's a free agent!

Football management looks simple until you look at the money Everton have wasted over the last few years, trying to sign those productive players who probably wouldn't get out of bed for 30 grand a week, and have mostly ended up not giving a fuck.

Francis van Lierop
154 Posted 21/12/2022 at 19:26:17
There were some rumblings concerning Jarrad Branthwaite's stay at PSV.

Well, I just got a message on my mobile stating that he feels happy at PSV, it's a family club, he said.

I also got to vote whether he's the best central defender at the club or not. 57% agreed with me!

I really think he'll be getting more game time now.

Andy Meighan
155 Posted 21/12/2022 at 19:34:55
David 141.

Weren't Southampton interested in Davies at one point? Obviously nothing came of that.

And that's it really. A very average player and if he was to be sold or went on a free, I doubt very much if there'd be many Premier League suitors in for him.

According to some on here, he's the only player who gets stick. Nonsense of course, I've heard plenty before and after get well worse than what Davies gets.

Darren Hind
156 Posted 21/12/2022 at 20:10:11
Abdoulaye Doucoure cost us about £20M more than Tom Davies. He earns £125k a week (6 times as much). Unlike Davies, he has already been relegated. He has also lost twice as many games in an Everton shirt than Tom.

There is a thread running right now about a possible Doucoure move to Fulham. I wonder if it will attract as many comments? ... I'm betting not.

Tony Abrahams
157 Posted 21/12/2022 at 20:53:59
Frank Lampard who was one of the finest midfielders of his generation, is struggling to get his own midfield, playing as an effective unit, and this is definitely a much bigger problem than arguing about a player who commands around £1.5 million a year in wages imo.

I've also just read a report that Calvert-Lewin is still only training in the gym, and this is also very concerning and at least on a par with why our midfield three just haven't been complementing each other?

Our club is in a very precarious position and definitely needs to be sold quicker than Tom Davies, but because a lot of the players are probably on at least treble what Davies is earning, and any potential buyers also have FFP to consider, then I'm guessing that Moshiri is having problems trying to sell Everton right now? I hope I'm wrong.🤞

Laurie Hartley
158 Posted 21/12/2022 at 20:58:07
Steve #108,

How you can class Allan in the same category as Schneiderlin is beyond me. They are as different as night and day in my opinion.

Danny O’Neill
159 Posted 21/12/2022 at 21:03:48
The most important point isn't just about the midfield, Tony, it about the team playing as a unit.

Move up the pitch as a unit. Defend as a unit.

Barry Rathbone
160 Posted 21/12/2022 at 21:05:23
Laurie @158,

Different styles but equally ineffective ditto Gana, Doucouré and Onana. We seem completely incapable of buying effective midfield players.

Mike Gaynes
161 Posted 21/12/2022 at 21:07:18
Laurie #158, agreed.

Allan was a consummate professional for us, giving maximum effort every moment on the pitch.

Schneiderlin was a disgrace to the shirt.

Laurie Hartley
162 Posted 21/12/2022 at 21:20:02
Barry # 160 - none of those 3 would get into my team before Allan. He has a far better football brain than any of them. In fact I think we should have kept him for another season because he is also a fighter.
Kieran Kinsella
163 Posted 21/12/2022 at 21:23:01

Not every post on here is about Tom. In fact you're the one who mostly keeps bringing him back up. With that having been said, it's funny that you accuse Moyes of lowering expectations at the club. You acknowledge he was cheap and had no money but you are annoyed he at Kenwrights behest manage expectations so people were grateful as he is the best we could get. That is exactly the same argument you make yourself though to defend Tom Davies. He is cheap, he's not as crap as So and So. Nothing about having expectations or hopes of improvement just excuses and finger pointing.

Ray Smith
164 Posted 21/12/2022 at 21:40:19
Slightly off thread.
Our financial position beggars belief!
How did we get into this position?
Who is to blame?
Why havn’t those accountable been taken to task?
In one BK lock stock and barrel.
Sack 6 managers, whose still there BK.
How does he survive?
He’s like an anchor pulling us further and further into the abyss.
Best Wolves, great, then Man City!
We are papering over the cracks!
Until BK is held accountable or leaves, nothing will change other than relegation!!!
Matthew Johnson
165 Posted 21/12/2022 at 23:08:11
just got back from a freezing cold Coventry Building Society Arena where Cov beat West Brom - Viktor Gyökeres looked very useful, big and strong, chased the game and seemed very hungry for the ball, bagged a penalty at the end
Steve Brown
166 Posted 22/12/2022 at 01:25:07
Laurie, I like Allan as a player and professional but we got him on the wane.

Physically, he couldn’t manage the intensity of the PL, which tended to lead him to lunge in or get caught out of position because he couldn’t make up ground. I did think carefully about including him, but overall we didn’t get value out of that transfer.

Since I posted that list, I have been kicking myself as I somehow managed to miss Walcott off!

Paul Hewitt
167 Posted 22/12/2022 at 05:24:31
Ray@164. Apparently it's Bill's fault, it's always Bill's fault.
Darren Hind
168 Posted 22/12/2022 at 07:48:30
If it wasnt for those who batter away at Davies so relentlessly. He would barely get a mention on this site. I certainly don't think he's that important. He didnt play any part in last seasons desperate fight because he was injured and he hasnt played any part in the current free fall..

The trouble is. they cant help themselves. They don't know enough about whats really wrong, so they go back to the same culprit every time, They even write articles about him. Accuse him of costing manager after manager their jobs.

I don't think he needs defending anymore. I thought he was getting hammered by many, but I now realise its the same handful of people coming back all the time. They havent quite figured out the difference between criticising a poor performance and hammering away at a player who isn't even playing.

Hope the boy gets over the disastrous run of injuries and carves out a nice little career for himself. Wherever that may be

Tony Abrahams
169 Posted 22/12/2022 at 08:25:37
I definitely agree with that Danny, but because we have got slow central defenders, who are reluctant to play a high line, then I believe the only way we can stay compact is by playing the way Ancelotti, had us playing?

Maupay, Gordon, Gray, McNeill, and the injured DCL, are our attacking players, then throw in Iwobi, and that’s about it. It’s not great, so until we get some better attacking players, I genuinely/definitely don’t think we are good enough to play an open game against many teams?

Let’s see what happens during the transfer window, because if we don’t add to that list of forward players, then the only way I can see us surviving is by becoming a lot tighter and a lot more pragmatic, and because we just don’t have enough goals in this current squad, we have definitely got to stop conceding them.

I started typing, I wish I hadn’t, because after staying away from most things Everton, I’ve just had a grim realisation of how poor we look, going forward on paper. Thankfully football isn’t played on paper, but it’s only hard work and a decent system, that’s going to paper over the cracks, unless we get more craft into this current squad.

I heard Kenwright only decided to stay all this time because he doesn’t want anyone else getting the blame.

Robert Tressell
170 Posted 22/12/2022 at 08:30:21
Tom Davies could have become a good player but he's been at a terrible club for his development. He's now not a good player and, when his contract ends in June, probably needs to go and play in Scotland, the Championship or overseas to rebuild a career.

We move on.

Danny O’Neill
171 Posted 22/12/2022 at 08:53:50
Steve @166, I too liked Allan. You could see his quality. I think I was guilty of coining the phrase "Brazilian Peter Reid". I'll take my medicine for that. I got over excited that I believed we had a quality midfielder. He was, but I agree with you, we got him about 2 years too late and his light (legs) faded pretty quickly.

Without sounding all dramatic on a Thursday morning this close to Christmas Tony, but like a military unit.

Left flanking pincer movement to distract and draw the enemy, creating the space and opportunity for a forward assault by the main body!!

I understand my own logic. Hope I haven't lost everyone!!

Darren, valid point. Differentiate between a poor performance or bad run of form. But not the potential of the young player. I've criticised some of Anthony Gordon's performances this season. But he's shown potential over the past season, scored some cute goals on the end of some intelligent runs this season and is only 21. Still developing. We shouldn't shatter his confidence and opinionate on the back of a few performances. Like Robert says and with Tom before him, trying to develop in a poorly run and turbulent club.

Likewise, be patient with Onana. He's a bit "Bambi on ice" right now, but also at 21 years old, can become a very good player.

I might be an isolated voice, but I still think we'll get something out of McNeil once he has a striker and runners to look for. Still only 23 as I was rightly corrected for earlier.

I think those who advocate "play the kids" need to keep in mind that if you want that approach, these players are developing. Just my opinion.

Christine Foster
172 Posted 22/12/2022 at 09:00:05
Darren, if there is one constant in TW, it's the assasination of certain players and all managers by a number of posters. A bit like the saying, if you tell a lie long enough it becomes the accepted truth.
Personally I am guilty of it when it comes to our chairman, but I saw through him a dozen years ago! But it's the continual put downs of certain players that gets me. All my goddammit life it's been the same, but with social media the likes of TW it's mud slinging. Now let's be honest here, we often get manipulated by the club "sources" to ensure any blame goes where they want it too. Players are thrown to the wolves by the club when it suits but we lap it up. Rooney James, Barkley keep going..every week it's someone.
Tom Davis is a good player, loves the club and has worked honestly and tirelessly for several managers who put faith in him. But it's fair to say in recent times we have been very poor, so his contribution was better than most. As the team grows it's likely Tom will be left behind or let go if he cannot raise his game. That's the real question, is there more he can give?
Andy Meighan
173 Posted 22/12/2022 at 09:24:15
These posters who keep perpetuating this myth that Tom Davies is a good player don't know what they're talking about.

For the record, Davies is a very average footballer who wouldn't get near another Premier Legaue side, but certain people feel they have to defend him because he's from West Derby. I personally couldn't care if he was from West Bengal, West Cork, or wherever – the truth is he should never have got near a Premier League side.

A very lucky lad in my opinion. But, then again, he's not alone in that respect – there's been countless others who have been afforded the privilege at our wonderful club.

Danny O’Neill
174 Posted 22/12/2022 at 09:26:51
Christine, guilty as charged on Michael Keane!! I've tried to refrain recently as I can still see the Gwladys Street net bulging from the lower Bullens against Palace.

But he still worries me a lot of the time when he's on the pitch.

Steve Brown
175 Posted 22/12/2022 at 09:31:35
Tom Davies has only played in 13 premier league games over the last two years - how many of them did he even start?

So, he is hardly the reason we have struggled as he hasn’t even been in the pitch.

Tony Abrahams
176 Posted 22/12/2022 at 09:48:24
As long as it’s not a Russian one Danny! Moshiri just thought he had to throw money at it, whilst Putin just thought he’d be okay because he had the numbers, but no matter how much we might worry about Everton, at least we are not facing Christmas, in such horrible, and horrendous conditions.
Brian Harrison
177 Posted 22/12/2022 at 09:49:23
I find it strange that this thread has now become about Tom Davies, I think there are a lot more problems for our club than Tom Davies.

Regarding Tom, he has played over 100 games for the club which is very commendable, but 6 or 7 managers have given him a run and for whatever reason decided on other options.

The Usmanov / Moshiri years so far have been a massive disappointment, but you can't question the money they ploughed into the club. I think the sanctioning of Usmanov will hasten Moshiri's exit. I don't think he is a football man and was only ever involved because Usmanov wanted him to front the operation.

I am sure the sale of the club will happen as that's the only way Usmanov and Moshiri will get some of their money back. All the managers he has sacked all walked away with millions as a payoff; as for the dross those managers signed, some are still costing the club millions for little in return.

I would like a new owner but that isn't going to alter our FFP position. While it's better than it was, it constrains what the new owners can spend. Just hope our new owners are not hedge fund consortiums and it's somebody who is willing to spend more than 5% of his time running the club.

Tony Abrahams
178 Posted 22/12/2022 at 10:02:24
In modern day football you can use five subs now, so any player, who is is playing on the periphery of the game, has got to be taken off if they are not putting in the desired work. This has got to be the basis in which to improve imo, because once a player masters hard work, he will definitely improve? This is how I currently view Onana.
Laurie Hartley
179 Posted 22/12/2022 at 10:05:31
Steve & Danny - I think the reason Allan struggled towards the end of last season was because he was trying to do the work of two men. I would have liked to seen Gueye playing in the same midfield as him not instead of him.

C’est la vie, he has gone now like Rodrigues and Eto’o before him. I enjoyed him and them in the short periods they were with us. Maybe the day will come round once more when we will see players of that calibre pulling on a blue shirt. Let’s hope so.

Dave Abrahams
180 Posted 22/12/2022 at 10:27:20
Tony (178), I’m glad you mentioned Onana, the lad looks like he can become a very good player but the moment he is producing next to nothing but is constantly selected while Garner was left sidelined even before he got injured yet was always in the game although it was only a few minutes when he was substituted on.

It would be better to tell him before the game,you have been selected to play but we are substituting you before the game starts, it will save us wasting a sub,and until you liven your fuckin’ self up that’s the way it will stay.

He couldn’t even change his game in the World Cup for Belgium with worldwide audiance watching.

Michael Kenrick
181 Posted 22/12/2022 at 11:53:05
Brian @177,

I'm not so convinced about this clamour for Moshiri to sell.

In simple financial terms, it is the worst possible time for him to consider selling the club. And here I'm thinking "Buy low, sell high".

We are, once again, close to being at the lowest ebb, bumbling along in the mire at the foot of the Premier League table, and – as you suggest – heavily constrained by the Profitability and Sustainability rules (but not FFP as that only applies if and when we qualify for European competition).

He is also funding the construction of a fabulous new stadium which, until it is finished and fully commissioned, becomes an increasingly burdensome albatross potentially – if the money stops, and then construction stops and ultimately the club has to pay to return Bramley-Moore Dock to some 'pristine' original condition.

(I find this last bit a ridiculous notion, but it's out there... lurking like some horrible Ghost of Christmas Future...)

No, far better for him to keep calm and carry on funding construction until it is done and the tremendous positive value of this fantastic new asset can be realized in the valuation of the club.

Now Moshiri may need or want new investors to come in to help him get to that point, which could involve selling 10%, 25%, 45% of his Everton shareholding to generate the required cash to complete the new Everton Stadium.

That would make complete sense under the current circumstances. But I think he would be certifiably mad to sell up at this point (spurious Tony Abrahams rumours notwithstanding).

Tony Abrahams
182 Posted 22/12/2022 at 12:12:33
Desperate men do desperate things Michael, and if Everton, don’t find some money to improve matters out on the pitch, it’s possible that they could lose a massive amount of the television money, that comes with being in the Premier League?

I also think buying Everton now could end up becoming great value, but I just hope those rumours (that come from a very good and well connected source) are true, because I do fear for our future the way things currently stand.

The worry is that I’ve been told that no news is good news with regards to the sale, which is allegedly in the hands of the solicitors. The obvious worry being that with Everton having been run so appallingly, that there’s going to be no surprise, if the buyers end up finding a few problems. We will see🤞cos I’m already fed up waiting!

Robert Tressell
183 Posted 22/12/2022 at 12:22:14
Michael, Moshiri is the king of buy high, sell low - so it would be fitting for him to get a poor return on his investment.

If we do get a buyer, there is an urgent need to protect the investment hopefully by spending a few quid.

Brian Harrison
184 Posted 22/12/2022 at 12:48:25
Michael @181,

If you are right and this would be the worst time for Moshiri to sell, then I dread to think how little he will get if we become a Championship club before moving to the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock.

As for an investor buying a substantial share in the club, if it didn't include an option to buy, it would be madness. As you have said, the club is at a very low ebb at this moment so buying say 20% or 45% of the club would be like throwing money away.

All forecasts at this time value Everton at between £500 to £750 million, the cost of the new stadium is already up to £750 million. So for Moshiri / Usmanov to get any return on the £500 million spent on players and the £750 million for the new stadium, there would have to be a seismic transformation from where we are now to attract the sort of money that Moshiri / Usmanov would hope to get.

Jerome Shields
185 Posted 28/12/2022 at 15:29:41
I can see Pickford being offloaded and some funds used for a striker. But not all the funds. Apparently, the Board is holding off on a new contract.
Will Mabon
186 Posted 28/12/2022 at 15:47:23

The last thing we need is to sell Pickford, IMO.

As you allude and for what it's worth in terms of the usual level of veracity, the BBC site cites The Mail as saying Everton have "yet to sign off" the agreed 5-year contract with Pickford, whatever that means – which has alerted several Premier League clubs.

In any set of circumstances financially, I always have a background suspicion this club would flog off the better players given the chance to get away with it.

We apparently "had no money" before buying Onana, McNeil and Maupay, however those deals are structured. Heard it all before. Obviously we have less now – and no striker.

Robert Tressell
187 Posted 28/12/2022 at 15:50:16
Pickford is gone in summer. It's the only way we can raise funds.

Like all our other flawed and heavily criticised players – like Lukaku, Stones, Richarlison etc – I'm sure we'll manage to replace him with worse.

Will Mabon
188 Posted 28/12/2022 at 15:53:29
"Like all our other flawed and heavily criticised players – like Lukaku, Stones, Richarlison etc – I'm sure we'll manage to replace him with worse."

We know a song about that, don't we, Billy?

Jay Harris
189 Posted 28/12/2022 at 16:09:29

It seems our model is to sell the best players to buy 3 or 4 average players on big contracts.

That hasn't changed with Thelwell. Him and Frank seem to be too beholden to Kenwright for my liking.

Kevin Molloy
190 Posted 28/12/2022 at 16:14:56
The thing which tells me that Moshiri has no intention of finishing the job is that he was offered the mother of all sweetheart deals from the Council. They agreed to loan him the full amount at like 1% a year over 50 years, and he fucking turned it down.

He still thinks someone even stupider than him is going to swing in and give him his money back and build it out. Astonishingly, that penny still doesn't seem to have dropped.

So, we know he can't keep funding it, he doesn't have the money to finish off a half-billion-plus stadium.

He's missed out now on a good loan environment, so that's out. At some point, he's going to have to take the bull by the horns at accept one of the following:

● A massive loss on his investment, but passing the club along in one piece (the honourable route)

● A better price for him on the understanding the new buyer builds a crappy stadium, or firesales the lot.

I imagine at the moment he's trying to find a third way between the above, but there isn't one, Farhad. And every year you put it off is just one more bullet in the chamber as you play Russian Roulette with relegation.

Ian Bennett
191 Posted 28/12/2022 at 16:16:12
Your goal shouldn't be to buy players, your goal should be to buy wins. And in order to buy wins, you need to buy runs.

Just a film, but we've managed to sell every goalscorer we've got. Even in the late 1990s & early 2000s ,we had at least some goalscorers.

Sean Roe
192 Posted 28/12/2022 at 16:22:17
I wouldn't be letting Mina go in January, he's probably our best bet for a goal in this squad, especially from set pieces.
Derek Knox
193 Posted 02/01/2023 at 03:14:51
Sean @ 192,

I think we all like Mina, and as you rightly say he is a definite threat at set pieces, but how often is he fit? Therefore, a passenger in my estimation, we can't hold on to players who only appear once in a Blue Moon and are on top wages, it just doesn't equate.

I sincerely hope we are more active than normal in this window and address incomings as well as outgoings. Our survival could depend on it, as we are roughly half-way through this present campaign. Which also beggars the question, have we any money available?

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