The difficulty with David…

If you are happy just to be in the top flight, you hire a manager to suit. If you want to challenge for trophies, the same applies.

I know what I want and it can happen. I just hope our owners feel the same way.

But no, the old Davy has emerged and, with 2 trade mark defeats, we know he won't change it for the Man City game and it will be 3 defeats on the bounce.

He's just not going to take us any further so we have to decide are we happy treading water or do we want success. If it's the latter, then Davy has to go.

It's about where we are as a club because that is a Moyes signing all day long, sadly. I'd have taken McGinn 5 seasons ago. Moyes would take him now.

These types will be the target for next season.

On the other site, Christine drew attention to some Gossip about Moyes's contract situation stalling, interesting gossip though...

I think it's unfair to say Moyes falls into the category of 'just staying in the Premier League'.

By that logic, most of the managers in the Premier League are just that. Everton are 3 points back from a Brighton side that in the last two summer windows has spent around £400M.

Everton's squad needed huge investment and an overhaul last season. £110M spend (with some further money to be spent on Rohl) is hardly enough to tu
that into a team that should be qualifying for Europe.

Moyes is frustrating, but he has also raised standards. From what I can tell, the club made their goal clear in January -- they were not willing to spend big in order to try and get Europe.

Moyes and the team can have different goals to the club as a whole; as long as they fit into the wider structure and ambition, that's fine. Clearly, it is a goal of both to make Europe, but the wider club goal this season was progress.

This time last year, Everton had 38 points. They won 3 and drew 1 of their last 4 games. If they could somehow repeat that trick (not saying it's likely) this time around, I'm sure many fans would be very happy.

But we must also take a step back. We don't have to say Moyes has done an incredible job this season (he hasn't), but the team and the club has progressed on and off the pitch. He can be frustrating, but his tactics have ensured Everton have moved forward in their goals this season.

No need to be handing him a new deal, but also the foundations need to be in place too and this squad still needs a lot of work. And I don't think that should be purchasing more players like Tyler Dibling or Adam Aznou just yet -- I apply that for any manager that is here, not just Moyes.

Q) "Moyes won't change, but really, does he now have any other option than to be more attacking?"

A) Yes; his main first option is always: "How can we best not lose?"

Hopefully enough of them to get shut.

Like you, I'd have preferred the John McGinn of 5 years ago, but at 31 still has a few years left in him.

I like McGinn because, like Richarlison, he never looks intimidated when facing “big clubs”. We could do with a few of those characters in our squad.

It's clear that people are not aligned behind the scenes when it comes to recruitment. Whatever happens in the summer, I think it's absolutely imperative that the people who are involved in recruitment are all singing off the same hymn-sheet.

This doesn't seem to be the case right now and hasn't felt like it's been the case for a very long time now.

That will show them Moyes’s limitations in must-win games.

That's another thing that doesn't fill me with much confidence with regards these silent Friedkins, John.

Always assuming that they are going to be given money to spend.

John 3, the Ginger child, please.

It was crystal clear by half-time that Barry and McNeil needed to come off at halftime… but what does Moyes do? Waits until minute 60 to make the much needed substitutions.

He may be a good man-manager and good with training but, when it comes to tactical decisions in the middle of a match, he's unable or unwilling to make those decisions.

You say it appears some on the board are becoming aware of David Moyes's limitations, where have you read this?

All I see is owners who view Everton as having a stadium that allows them to make lots of money from non-football events. 18 months into their ownership, they still haven't bothered to visit, or have any interaction with the fans.

I have always questioned who was responsible for our player purchases, despite Moyes saying he had the final say; to me, that's a load of rubbish.

Just look at how little time Dibing has had. Do you really believe Moyes would spend nearly 50% of his transfer budget on a player, then play him so little? Of course not.

You can add Alcaraz, Aznou and Rohl to that list as well. I am also not convinced he wanted George on loan either.

This seems to be the new way owners want to run their clubs: they don't want managers, they only want coaches, both Maresca at Chelsea and Amorin at Man Utd said they are now coaches, not managers.

But TFG are following their fellow Americans at Chelsea -- buy promising youngsters and hope to get a retu
on them if they don't work out. How much does anybody think anyone would pay for Dibling?

For me, Iriola is the only manager I would want to replace Moyes. He plays quick attacking football. But remember, there isn't the same pressure managing Bou
emouth or Brighton or Brentford as managing a club with more demanding supporters.

Despite many on here wanting Moyes out, I don't see many putting forward any alte
atives -- just spouting "I want Moyes out".

One of us posted a link earlier, suggesting the board were not unanimous in awarding David's new contract.

Not rocket science though, mate.
Anyone with a pair of eyes and a basic knowledge of football can see his limitations.

Are you suggesting David Moyes told lies in the BBC interview where he clearly stated:

"I am in control of all incoming and outgoing players, I have the final say"???

He's toeing the line. There's nothing wrong with this if your recruitment team is good, knows what they're doing… last Summer, the team wasn't fully in place… the business done begs some serious questions.

Moyes got some of his way with some experienced additions. I don't think Dibling, Aznou etc were his choices.

This Summer, with the full recruitment team in place, is going to be very interesting.

Where's that link, John? I'm already contemplating giving my ticket away for next Monday's game because I just can't get excited about watching us playing at the minute.

I'd love this to change, we have a stadium fit for kings, but too many people seemingly happy with stability, even though the Premier League is poor

If a club like Everton, started showing some real ambition, who knows what we could achieve?

Moyes and Kinnear are the mainstays of the recruitment team, and they were certainly aligned about the January window. They both very openly said we wouldn't be doing much business then because we were holding our fire for this summer window. And one would assume they were speaking with Friedkin's approval.

I therefore assume that whatever is planned for July has been planned with Friedkin's approval as well, and with an awareness of what our spending ceiling will be under PSR/SCR (information that will not be publicly shared).

My personal hunch is that the summer planning may have been sharply altered by Branthwaite's injury and the sudden urgency of signing a top-quality centre-back.

He has final sign off on the successful ones, but the ones that don't are someone else's. Simple.

Going public with the spending limit would be a tremendous advantage for clubs we are bidding against for players and the clubs or agents with whom we are negotiating transfer fees.

You never show your cards at the table.

Think I'm right in saying this year's figures that we will take the spending money out of were produced in April? I could be wrong there, of course.

I don't think they will spend the full available amount, being honest.

Alcaraz, Aznou, Dibling and Rohl have a combined value of £80M, which is nearly double the price of Dewsbury-Hall and Barry. It's not as if Barry has played that much either, even though he's probably been given more game time than those four players have totalled between them.

Only Grealish and Dewsbury-Hall have really played, while certain positions have been completely neglected in a totally unprofessional manner.

Which young players are genuinely going to want to sign for Everton if David Moyes is still the manager? Especially when they look at the amount of game time the above young players have had?

My guess is not very many... and my second guess is that this will suit David Moyes a lot more than anyone else.

I'm sure they do, and so does the media, but those are inexact estimates at best. Especially as player sales and contracts change the picture.

My point is that you will never, ever see a club tell the world they have a specific transfer budget they plan to spend. We will certainly never know what the limit is, let alone whether we actually spend it.

We'll know in September that Friedkin spent, say, £150M because the transfer fees will come out. We'll never know whether his SCR limit was £150M or £200M or whatever.

If you want to claim Moyes is lying through his teeth and didn't rubber-stamp the signing of Dibling, then add some credibility to your claim and tell us who was.

He was questioned by the media on Friday, saying Barry wasn't guaranteed to start against West Ham, but not only did he start, he gave another toothless performance -- and Moyes still played him for the full game.

He started McNeil again, brought off O'Brien when it should have been Tarkowski, and put Ga
er at fullback, with two full-backs on the bench, and our midfield overrun, as against the Red Shite.

Rohl hasn't got a game since his best display against Villa. He said Armstrong has run out of energy... what about Gueye?

Why doesn't he try something different, give these players and maybe Dibling and Patterson a chance? No, Moyes still sticks to bringing on his usual two changes.

Why would he do that?

I think we are allowed to spend 85% of income?
It's very easy to get the annual income figure.
Deduct 85% and hey presto

It is my opinion, only my opinion, that there were different views. I think David Moyes would have preferred experienced players, I think the Owners (whose wishes some of the other committee members would seek to execute) prefer investment in younger potential. Hence we ended up with a mixed bag.

Exactly who was advocating the recruitment of which players, the committee would have to tell us, and almost certainly won't.

If he's still having more talent at his disposal but not being utilized as it has been suggested, then there will be grounds for grievance.

Wissa
Delap
Woltemade
Wirtz
Isak
Gittens
Ga
acho
Elanga

Too expensive?

Doak
Hutchinson
Mcatee
Kalimuendo
Tel
Gallagher

Research found that only 40% of transfers were successful 14 years ago. I would be surprised if that figure isn't lower these days.

I also don't think you can write off some of those players either. Young players rarely deliver immediately. So let's see where they are at Ga
er's age.

Baines £6M and he played Lescott at left-back for most of that season.

Who was the centre-back -- £5M and couldn't head a ball?

Exactly who was advocating the recruitment of which players, the committee would have to tell us, and almost certainly won't.

One of the committee has already told us. He's either lying... or he has the final say on all transfers.

That was Per Krøldrup.

Because, if Moyes is in charge during the next transfer window -- and, unfortunately, I think he will be -- then we will get another large portion of this season repeated.

If you mean let Moyes buy the experienced players he requires, then expect a level of player such as Soucek.

Then another season of dire, defensive football with the odd victory against a top side. Plus a few hammerings, as experienced this season.

Not to mention the same tired, outdated tactics and poor use of substitutions.

He just loves a grafter who will grind him out regular draws or the odd win because it keeps him in the box seat. He's no mug and he infuriates me.

I love his indefatigability, but I hate his stubbo
ness and lack of interest in trying in the cups. For those reasons, please thank him and say goodbye.

If I was a young player aspiring to make it in the Premier League, my prospective manager would have a significant bearing on my decision.

I think this is why Bou
emouth are able to find and sign these fine young players.

It's up to the owners if they want more than that or if it's enough.

But that 85% includes salaries of all current players and staff, so tells you nothing about the transfer budget.

One player off your list that I'd be attracted to is Wissa, whom The Athletic reports will be dumped by Forest at a loss after they wasted £55M on him. He's had a disastrous season thanks largely to a knee injury, but in his last two seasons at Brentford he had 31 goals and 9 assists in 69 Premier League games, which is outstanding.

Now healthy, in his prime at 29, able to play across the front, and by multiple accounts a great attitude. Two years ago he was rated at £25M. If we could get him for close to that, I'd jump.

Brian #17, Iraola the only manager? Really? There are at least four currently available I'd rather have and who might consider us -- Glasner, Terzic, Maresca and Xavi -- all of whom coach attractive football like Iraola and have better records of success.

I always thought they are interchangeable terms, and tu
over too?

I agree that there is more than a decent chance that he will move on in the summer -- maybe more if Howe heads for the door -- and I would take him at Everton for sure, although he will be 30 on 3 September (my birthday too!).

I stumbled on these things today that once again sent my alarm bells ringing and flashing about Moyes: creativity, preferring the 'tried and trusted' in his book, sticking to the same old same old, stubbo
ness, deep almost instinctive reluctance to try something or someone new etc.

Moyes speaking in 2024: '18-years-old was the young (age) probably a few years ago. But certainly I think it's moved more towards 21 now for players in the Premier League'.

When Moyes picked Dibling for his first game, it was the first time in 185 games -- 185!!!! -- that he had picked a teenager to start.

Eric, revenue is the total money your business generates. Income is what you have left after costs, expenses, taxes etc. In accounting lingo, revenue is the top line, income is the bottom line.

Tu
over is what Gana does with the ball too often.

I would also take a chance on Wissa in that price range. At least at 30, Moyes would give him a look.

No guts, no glory.

And what's left after costs and expenditure is profit? Or loss.

I'd be happy with only a 9-0 win and Brighton losing 1-0.

Of course other results would have to go our way too.

Improvement? Progress? Well, let's see what happens between now and 24 May. But it doesn't feel like significant improvement or progress to me, at 10 minutes after midnight on 28 April.

But please don't lambast and lampoon me for not being excited after twice trawling through Saturday's dross and energy and passion drought.

To be honest, I'm getting a tad sick and tired of being Molloyed to.

Dyche is history. Today, for me, there is not a lot, if anything, to be excited about. I don't think that the hard boiled egg is the point of comparison for Moyes today.

Ian @40 tells us only 40% are successful. His stats were compiled by... err... "research" -- Oh dear. Mike`s source is even better. He got his information from... Kinnear?

Compelling stuff from the stat peddlers.

I was just about to jump on board then I looked at Moyes's signings and realised that the only way he can reach a 40% success rate is by fucking off and letting a proper manager give his signings a chance.

Moyes is currently significantly short of the 40% success rate other managers are apparently averaging. If it wasn't for Dewsbury-Hall, he could probably claim 100% failure.

Of course he never won a game for a few months after the players used up a lot of energy initially getting back the points they were deducted. By the end, it was depressing watching a team only concentrating on one side of the game, which was defending.

Who did we sign under Dyche? Beto on a "buy now, pay later", Ndiaye, a few mediocre loan players, and we were also a completely rudderless club for a lot of the time with regard to our board of directors and the ongoing ownership issues.

We drew at Man City and Arsenal just before he left; it is beyond doubt that we were very good defensively when Dyche departed -- how could we not be? But when he first came to Everton, I didn't see that much wrong with the football and I thought he did an incredible job keeping us up because we were absolutely on our knees.

What an argument though: Moyes -- who won nothing in 11 years (now 13), and I'm not talking cups, I'm talking about just winning at certain away grounds -- is better than Dyche!🙈

This sentence alone is enough for me to realise the damage that has been done to Evertonians since Boxing Day 1999.

We aren't at the top of the food chain, and we are signing players that top teams don't want. Then we act disappointed when they aren't top players.

Research went through every top flight transfer to see the impact that they had. The research found that the wisdom of 50% of transfers working was overstated. The figure was nearer 40%, which includes top clubs within those figures.

So a middle-of-the-road club can expect a significantly lower success rate, regardless of who is in the dugout. The above list of flops illustrates the point. As a student of the game, there's a freebie from me.

The comment on all of Moyes's signings being bad is way too premature. Some worked out straight away; some will come good later; and some won't work out at all.

I've used the Ga
er point plenty of times to show a promising player can kick on in a short time that most didn't expect.

Nothing worse or smokescreen than when someone pushes an apparent generalisation -- erm... 40% of transfers fail -- to cloak and evaluate individual efforts. It is completely incorrect to do this.

'Research'? What 'research'?? Ian: links please???

And, apparently, those outside the hallowed halls are even less likely to succeed. Erm... Brighton, Bou
emouth, Palace, Brentford -- Ian? Coventry, Wrexham, Leeds, Sunderland?

Utter generalised bollocks, Ian, creating your 40% strawman with the clear intention to be the apologist and deflect from individual -- eg, our last two windows -- recruitment.

Absolutely nothing worse than when crappy percentages and stats are used to evaluate us -- as if those crappy percentages should be our level.

I'm getting sick and tired of being Bennetted and Molloyed to think that 40% mediocrity is a result.

I could tolerate not really being entertained over the last few years because the club was in complete disarray and everything was just about sticking together in the hope that we could hold it together just long enough to get to our new ground.

We are here now and guess what? It's been mostly boring watching Everton play, and it's hard not to see a familiar patte
being set. For some people, that's fine... but for some people, it isn't fine... and because I find myself in the latter group, I definitely want to see more than a club striving for stability.

What exactly is the point of the new stadium if we are not trying to better ourselves on the football pitch?

My point is, Moyes 2.0 has had enough time to compare Moyes 2.0 to Moyes 2.0.

Who made the decision that the 60% of players were deemed failures?

Was it in an article, or is it you doing the ratings?

Failure Statistic: Even with this generous definition, 46% of Premier League transfers fail. Data from the Association of Sporting Directors suggests a 44% success rate (56% failure) using similar metrics.

Success in the transfer market

Why so many big transfers fail – insight on the football and the psychology.

Research from 2012–2014, often cited as Tomkins's Law, indicated that roughly 40% of transfers in the Premier League (out of over 3,000 analysed between 1994 and 2012) were successful based on financial metrics, meaning a high proportion (60%) failed to deliver a good retu
on investment.

Utter generalised bollocks, Ian, creating your 40% strawman with the clear intention to be the apologist and deflect from individual -- eg, our last two windows -- recruitment.

Do you want me to go on? Or is the list I provided previously of poor transfers plus the above, enough to prove that transfers aren't guaranteed, which was my point?

Feel free to write your own research on the topic.

The "football" has been drab, horrible to watch.

I've given my ticket away 6 games this season, Monday will be the 7th.

It will remain the same style next season regardless. He 100% won't buy players that make us more attractive.

In your opinion, what percentage of transfers, failure and success, has Moyes achieved in his second spell?

I'm more on the fence regarding his future than at any point this season but, at the end of the day, I expect the owners will be more than pleased with the club's progress and the stability he has brought. Another season of Moyes at the helm beckons.

Whilst there's a lot of talk about exte
al candidates for the job, does anyone consider that Baines or even Coleman might be in the running? Having a background at Everton would underline the stability factor sought for by TFG; an orderly transition to an inte
al appointment would double underline it.

The only problem with this idea -- despite the obvious fact that neither of them have managed in the Premier League -- is that Moyes might get himself into the DoF role.

I see Keith Andrews regularly mentioned as a candidate on here, so why not Leighton Baines?

You utterly failed to address my point.

Again.

Nothing worse or smokescreen than when someone pushes an apparent generalisation - erm 40% of transfers fail - to cloak and evaluate individual efforts. It is completely incorrect to do this.

And, apparently, those outside the hallowed halls are even less likely to succeed. Erm, Brighton, Bou
emouth, Palace, Brentford Ian, Coventry, Wrexham, Leeds, Sunderland?

Utter generalised bollocks Ian, creating your 40%. straw man with the clear intention to be the apologist and deflect from individual - e.g. our last two windows - recruitment.

Absolutely nothing worse than when crappy percentages/stats are used to evaluate us as if those crappy percentages should be our level.

I'm getting sick and tired of being Bennetted and Molloyed to think that 40% mediocrity is a result.

WANT TO ADDRESS THIS IAN?

This would be 90% of my post smoke-screener.

One of my many 2pence worths was to ask the question - When was the last time you came out of the grouud and heard someone say "well that was worth the money"

For every Chelsea game there's 20 that are 'not'...and there's some that are worse than even the 'nots'.
Bad enough to have the cushions of yore filling the sky.

The Chelsea game and those odd ones like it are what prompted Kenwights 'goodtimes' jibe...and we all know what a load of bollocks that was.

Shit games are not just down to Moyes though, all the usual suspects previously in charge...on and off the field...are also guilty of their share, but Moyes has the majority and he's back here now

Moyes mightn't be all of the problem - but he's no part of any solution

So for that reason,

I'm Out.

But what I cant get my head around is posters who some how we have lost our way as Everton teams always played attractive football and always competed for the top honours. I have watched every Everton team for th elast 72 years and mostly it has been disappointing. Even our successful managers had many critics, many will rightly question Catterick for not winning the Eurpean Cup considering he had the biggest transfer kitty of any team at the time. curtosity of this clubs greatest chairman Sir John Moores. Then Kendall despite winning leagues and cups and the Cup winners cup, there were a vast majority of fans who wanted him sacked in his first stint and in my opinion only the appointment of Colin Harvey to first team coach saved Kendal. And Joe Royle won the Fa Cup but his reign was cut short by possibly one of our worst chairmen in Peter Johnson.
So can the posters who regularly want a new manger and they are well entitled to that opinion can we please stop making out that its only in Moyes tenure that we have stopped competing for honours or playing great football.

Accept it, lads, come on... it's the norm.

Sums it up really. It's so ironic that the person who puts up the most stats has the least understanding of them.

Your figures are all over the shop.

In post 40 - You claim 40% success - 60% failure

in post 75 (first para) - It's 46% failure failure - 54% success.

In same post, same para. (This time from the ASD) wow !. You tell us it swings back again to 44% success - 56% failure.

Mike G puts up fractions. Two thirds - 66,6% failure

I'm all for a bit of research, but you need to take a breathe and try to understand what you are reading...and posting

Just so you understand what a straw man argument is; Nobody, but nobody, has said transfers were guaranteed. So why would you spend hours trawling through Wiki in an attempt to try to prove otherwise ? Dont know ? Neither does anybody else.

We are only interested in our manager's deals. not some convoluted gibberish spouted by stattos who have used half baked metrics to arrive at their fuck- witted conclusions.

For all the interest-free loans John Moores gave to Everton, we never had a big enough squad of players to win the European Cup and do well in the league... although we were knocked out of the European Cup by the eventual winners who bought one player primarily for that competition (Horst Szymaniak).

Not getting into the Catterick - Carey debate except to say Moores sacked Carey because he didn't think he was doing enough.

As for Moyes, he rightly gets loads of stick on here because of his stubbo
nature and has his teams playing mostly going out not to lose instead of going out to win when many of those games should have been contested with more heart and courage.

Catterick was a great manager, as good as any of the managers he was competing with for honours. Kendall gave us our pride back, once Harvey joined him. I didn't rate Joe Royle, he was better than average but he did win a major honour, which it was at the time.

Moyes has won a minor, very minor European trophy in a 30-year career as a manager and definitely doesn't impress enough Everton fans to be happy with him staying on as our manager.

There are plenty for, plenty against... and an awful lot sitting on the fence waiting for him to prove himself with his bank managing smiling as he adds to his account and thinking "How the fuck does he get this much money with so little genuine ability???"

Champions at the outbreak of the two world wars, Champions when English clubs were banned from Europe, but now an acceptance of mediocrity from so many Evertonians of a certain age, which both sickens and surprises me in equal measure if I'm being honest, mate.

Staggering the way people of that age advocate safety-first stability. I'm in that age bracket... I want to see a trophy before I get into the departures lounge.

Yet that's how your expectations come across. Instead we've gone from a mediocre team failing to a less mediocre team failing by not as much.

I know you know it takes time to build a team: "One swallow doesn't make a summer" as Linda Lovelace famously didn't say. And one summer of transfers doesn't make a team of world beaters.

If you like fluidity of tactics, then you definitely need to check out Dick Shreuder.

1: Is he based on Walking Street?

2: Can I use your discount?

It's all very well suggesting young managers who might have done okay or well at one or two clubs but they also come with a large risk.

You only need to look at the Premier League at the moment to see how competitive it now is, there is not that much between 6th and 14th; slip up a few extra times and you are right in the muck again.

We will get right up there when we get 2 or 3 more really top class players, players that can win or tu
games almost on their own.

There are 4 of the type of manager you don't like above us in the table... 5 if you count Carrick.

Alcaraz would have probably been involved in more games without the injuries. Is he a top draw player that instantly should be in the side, I have my doubts, and so have plenty on these pages. He is no world beater, but was available at a fair fee and is still only 22.

Has he time for him to step it up, yes he has. He could be a far better player at 27 when he hits his prime, if the penny drops.

Barry, Rohl, Dibling, and Aznou have not currently worked out. Am I totally surprised. No I am not. I was advocating experienced players at full back and right wing all last summer. I felt then we didn't have enough senior players at the right level. That remains a fair assessment, as Ga
er, Dewesbury Hall, and Ndiaye appear to be the exception rather than the rule on match day currently. Although the request has been that we buy more emerging talent, lower the wage bill rather ageing players with no resale value or a limited shelf life.

Are the rest a busted flush? Time will tell if there is a panic to get them out through the day, or the coaching staff see the potential that they will come good when they hit their peak, under Moyes or someone else. If they are under contract, they could still be an asset to this club.

The general consensus is that we need players that need to provide instant results. They need to be young, cheap, skilful, not want too high of a wage, never get injured, be ambitious but accepting that the club is being fixed up, so don't rock the boat. And ideally if every transfer can be a success, that would be swell. It seems that some really do believe in Unico
s, and get red faced over reality.

Darren and the Professor, seem to think I am happy with the transfers. I am not. But I also live in the real world where I know, that not all transfers play out, that we haven't been the most attractive option for years, decades even, that players are coming into a poor squad, the behind the scenes infrastructure has only just been built and that time will determine if those players are good signings.

Paul I answered your question once. So if you want to call me out with a question, if you can put it in less 10 paragraphs, that we be appreciated. Same as your old chum. Keep it civil, we are all Evertonians.

Link

I think Grealish could have done a lot more than he did — 5 assists and 2 goals in 22 regular games - I think he is on the way down.

Alcaraz has been sidelined by Moyes even when he was fit and his injury is a bit of a mystery because we never got much information about it, I think a lot of fans like him as well as the fans you pointed out who didn’t, he’s got plenty of time to prove his worth, which I wouldn’t bet against.

David didn't achieve the success ees rate then?

In the Premier league this season, that puts him 4th in the list per 90 minutes.

Link

Only Fe
andes, Cherki & Odegaard (co
ers) have more.

I get you don't rate him. But in a side short of goals, I rate it. I want all of our attacking plsyers providing a meaningful output.

Alcaraz needs to do more and he cant do that if he is injured. Was he sidelined early in the season, yes he was.

But that wasn't the question that John posed tbf. It was his transfer a success? Hopefully in time it will be. He's 22.

We aren't in a relegation battle, wonderful, but it genuinely sounds like it comes across like it doesn't get much better for the people who have opposite views to mine

Football is like life, the harder you work the better you will normally do, unless you have been browbeaten into believing you should just be thankful for small mercies, or that other phrase that has become very common over the years amongst way to many Evertonians.

Thanks for the heads-up though Eric, but if I sound like I'm being to expectant or a little bit too impatient, then that's only because I expect more mate.

Serious question because I was just talking to someone before about the fa cup tie, at Anfield, under Allardyce, when he introduced Lookman, with about 25 minutes left and the kid absolutely tormented Liverpool.

The very next game Lookman, wasn't even on the bench, and this is the reason I have asked you that question mate.

Same with Alkaraz, after coming on at half time he helped tu
the game against Palace, and his reward was a game playing out of position and then inevitably back to the bench when he didn't quite play as well out of position.

The same player played in two successive victories against Forest and Bou
emouth, and his reward was to be put back on the bench for the game against Chelsea, because Gueye's suspension was up.

You don't grow up getting treated like this imo, you get angry and frustrated when you don't think your manager has got much confidence in you.

Certainly some entertaining responses to the, erm, 'research' you posted, which I admit I had never seen mentioned before. Such ignorance -- if I can call it that -- seems to be the intellectually robust resort for our lea
ed readers who were perhaps unable to open the links you provided so they could have it verified?

I have now fixed this problem in your post, but I have yet to read and digest the original research you referenced. I just wanted to take a different tack from the naysayers and thank you for finding this and posting it on here for us.

It would be great if you could consider putting this sort of stuff together in the form of a fans comment article that we could publish on ToffeeWeb. Your level of interest in the game and the depth of your own research are commendable.

Thanks!

You say six assists which includes the 2 yard backwards pass to Ga
er who was about 20 yards from the goal outside the penalty area and he lashes a great shot past at least 3 Brighton players — I don't include that as an assist.

Alcaraz had a great second half when he came on as a sub in the 2nd half vs Crystal Palace, who had wiped the floor with us in the first period. I think he was used as a winger in the next game, in fact he was used as a winger more often than in his natural position, that's when he was used, his injury? Can you give us the details of what the injury actually was?

If you think he needs to do more, I'd say that puts him in the same boat as Grealish. In truth, I'd say you don't think he will be missed -- same as I think of Jack.

In fact, it's quite possible that neither of them will be here next season I'd miss Charly more than Jack, the opposite of yourself.

Physically, their bodies are fully developed, and mentally they can handle the pressure, digest instructions, and do both sides of the game. Youngsters switch off, cut co
ers, and need to lea
the hard way.

With some, I do think it is a now or never moment that gives them that eventual kick up the arse. Ga
er and Dewsbury-Hall have gone through it. Both have gone through some level of adversity. Ga
er a back injury that could have impacted a promising career, Dewsbury Hall failing at Chelsea. Both are tangibly different players than before.

Lookman has had that penny drop moment. Mike Gaynes posted all the clubs he failed at. Us, Fulham, Leicester, Leipzig. He has had the wake up he is throwing his career away. Coaches have supported him for sure, but he has found it himself.

And that is my response on Rohl, Armstrong, Aznou, Dibling and anyone else. Show it in training and games that you should be on the pitch. I can't stand moaners. Fucking prove it yourself.

Humans are not made on conveyor belts. I can send a list of players who were tearing it up at a young age to counter but you know that already.

They have done as well as anyone on the pitch and then found themselves back on the bench or not even in the squad the following week, which doesn't really equate to the manager supporting the young player.

Merlin Rohl, who ran more than any other player in an excellent team performance at Villa, is another who I don't think has started a game since.

Lookman never failed, he just never had a coach who trusted his obvious talents, and it's the same right across the board in English football, in the case of 95% of the managers within the game.

How do you know the young players who haven't been getting a chance at Everton are moaners, Ian? I personally can't stand people who come up with every excuse in the book to explain why certain players never get picked by the manager.

Can anybody shed any light as to who Ian Bennett is talking about? Or to? Is there anybody antwhere who expects any signing to meet the criteria he sets out in his latest round of "I'll-fight-you-on-the-beaches??

I guess if you don't have the answer to the questions you're asked, it makes perfect sense to create an imaginary "General consensus" and argue like fuck against it.

Can somebody saddle that unico
he`s talking about up? Looks like Moyes is taking Ian for another ride.

I'm sorry that you cannot take on board so many massive paragraphs at once but please stop avoiding direct comment on what you post.

The articles just say that most transfers fail. Somebody has gone into the time to analyse it, and puts some numbers against it.

Ive said that clubs like City on the whole get their transfers right.

I've said that you cant expect all transfers to work out,

And for younger players, you need to give them more time to assess their value to the club, rather than write them off as failures.

I've listed a load of flop signings at other clubs to illustrate that all clubs are no different to us.

I provided the context, that was a rebuild job, with no infrastructure from a club that has been ugly for years.

I don't know what more you want me to say. This isn't controversial stuff, I struggle to see your issues.

Your words not mine.

His whole career has been based on taking the risk and excitement out of the game. He's a boring average manager who loves 0-0 draws and 1-0 wins. (He also doesnt too much mind a one goal defeat.)

Our club needs more than this Methodist curmudgeon. Do one, you boring get.

Mike has been posting this line on Lookman for a long time. Lookman didn’t “fail” at Everton, he didn’t get a chance. He certainly didn’t “fail” at Leipzig in his first stint, nor at Leicester where Brendan Rodgers went on record that he wanted to sign him permanently but couldn’t afford him. Mike makes this point as he wrote Lookman off as a young player and now that looks foolish.

Repitition doesn’t make such comments right, nor does your claim that NONE of the young players are showing “it” in training. How would you know that? You have zero evidence for that claim, other than at an outcome level because Moyes is not putting them in the team.

Conversely, are we to assume that Tarkowski, McNeil and Mykolenko pickrd because they are showing “it” in training because they are certainly not on the pitch. They have been terrible lately but get picked regardless.

Moyes will not pick these young players no matter what they do in training. He will continue to pick Tarkowski, McNeil and Mykolenko no matter what they do on the pitch. Because, that is his default as a coach and he will never change.

TFG have invested £100 million in this young talent, and they will want to see them develop, play and increase in value. If Moyes is not capable of doing that, then he should leave,

As for the “moaning” line, well that is just embarrassing.

We need several categories. The binary succeed/fail leads to some category error as Steve is pointing out.

Fail is not fitting for transfers that just don't make it with the manager but end up covering costs when they are moved on. Also, succeed does not capture the situation when a player gets time, makes the first eleven, but never meets expectations.

Some method involving stages of development (if young), first team attachment (how well were they used) and whether their transfer generated or lost anything is really required for decent analysis.

Obviously, with any significant tenure, we would want wages paid out against the value of contributions, somehow.

Only extreme cases make for easy measurement.

stuff is coming from mistranslated line breaks from another write space "retu
" btw.

I wrote mine on notepad and tranferred to the TW palette. That is where it happened.

I've sent in a request to the Help Centre...

See if they can solve it.

It ain't easy, we all know that.

He had a fine loan spell at Leipzig, was signed permanently and failed. He was loaned to Fulham, where he failed. He was loaned to Leicester, where he failed. Leipzig finally gave up on him and sold him to Atalanta for €15 million, barely more than Everton had paid for him five years earlier. For a player of that level of talent to not increase in value over five years is failure.

But at Atalanta, he became a star. It takes some players longer to mature than others, and some never do. Lookman did it.

Tony, I suspect that it wasn't his talent that Lookman's managers mistrusted, because that was obvious. I suspect it was his commitment. I can't think of another reason he'd have been moved on so often.

And now he's scoring big goals in the Champions League. Way cool.

Can't think of anyone else as I don't bother with other teams but there must be some, after all it's only Moyes that doesn't play youngsters.

"Top" clubs attract players of skill AND ambition, and they cost a fortune beyond the "lesser" clubs' means.

Lesser clubs, like us for decades, don't have that attraction (as a direct result of Kenwright). Instead "lesser" self-serving players are signed to as a minimum maintain their lesser, but adequate to us, status, whilst we no doubt pray they find one or more of these lesser signings imbued with the talent and ambition to be attractive to a "top" club, to whom we sell him/them in order to ease our/everyone's bizarre financial worries.

The farcical financial "laws" that have for years now "gove
ed" "professional" football - ha ha - have increasingly reduced the game I used to love to a bent farce.

Sigh!

Link

My take on the debate -- it gets down to the quality of the club ownership, heirarchy, and manager. Personally, if we have blown our chance of a European spot, I hope they get the last spot.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/bou
emouth-afc/startseite/verein/989

Fulham saw him, and didn't want to keep him.

Leicester were unwiling to pay €15M, but choose to buy other players instead or keep other players in the squad that could have made way.

Despite his successful Leicester spell, Leipzig sold him at a loss, for little more than what we paid Charlton. It looks like they spent £22.5M plus wages and sold him for €15M.

That doesn't look like it was going to plan, and to me, if you're selling players at a loss and getting nothing on the pitch, it is a failure. They tried the Sancho trick and it failed.

The above makes the tu
around at Atalanta and Atletico the more eye-opening. 71 goal contributions in 104 matches at Atalanta is a big change, as was that hat-trick in the final.

I am no lover of Tarkowski, Mykolenko or McNeil. I've posted enough times on these pages, that they contribute to why we strugglue. But I am also realistic to think there are little credible options to the alte
ative at the moment.

Moyes is here to win points and, in his mind, we win more points with Mykolenko over Aznou, McNeil over George or Dibling, and Tarkowski over Patterson.

It might more pleasing on the eye to flip these around, but I think we concede more goals, and I am not convinced we win more points.

Aznou is a country mile off being ready for Premier League football. Patterson will leave in the summer, and I've repeatedly said George over McNeil has bugger all in it. They both have issues to their game.

How can you say that Lookman failed when he went on loan to Liepzig and then when they signed him on a permanent deal and Everton made a profit?

How do you know Adamola hadn't already had enough of Everton? He refused to go on loan to a lower league club in England that Allardyce had sanctioned and he dug his heels in and got a loan move to Germany, instead?

He might have failed at Liepzig, two different loan deals and then a transfer, but without knowing the inns and outs, you can't actually know this for sure?

He went to Leicester, never played that much, never pulled up any trees, and although there was an indication that they wanted to keep him, the transfer never materialised.

He then played the lockdown season on loan at Fulham. I remember watching him playing at Anfield, when I thought he was the best player on the pitch. I'm sure he would have been given a lot more freedom off a coach like Scott Parker, which would have done wonders for this very talented kids confidence.

Fulham went down, just like Bu
ley have gone down. Does this make Parker a bad coach or, maybe because he has never abandoned his principles, he might be a coach who would do a lot better, with better players…

Anyway, back to Adamola. Fulham, wanted to keep him but couldn't afford the fee, and he ended up going to Atalanta (for around €1M less than what he had cost Liepzig) and hasn't looked back since.

Young players need a coach who has got the confidence and the personality to bring them along by playing them. If a young player doesn't receive this, then he his simply in the wrong environment to make the penny drop.

When Allardyce replaced Rooney with Lookman, pushing Sigurdsson into his more natural central position that night at Anfield, Everton went from a team lacking ideas to a team that started putting Liverpool on the back foot.

When Lookman wasn't even in the squad the next week and Sigurdsson was back on the wing, the penny dropped for me regarding Allardyce (I will always give anyone a chance before instantly dismissing them).

It was no surprise that Spurs, put five past us at Wembley, that night.

I was taught at school that new subjects require new paragraphs.

Feck me, this repetitive Lookman stuff is getting boring.

Whatever happened to paragraphs?

So, wind your neck in...

Why are these things so difficult to fix?

I have been on ToffeeWeb for years and usually leave spaces in between the paragraphs but for some reason it is just condensing it into one long paragraph Paul.

I can only assume that it must be down to what you use to access ToffeeWeb, Paul, and if it hasn't been fixed, do understand that I have tried to explain myself thoroughly.

I have noticed it hasn't worked, but I did leave spaces in between my paragraphs, honestly. 🙈

Test

“Young players need a coach who has got the confidence and the personality to bring them along by playing them.”

You mean like Iraola did with Kroupi (19) and Rayan (19) last week against Leeds? Both of whom scored.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/afc-bou
emouth/startseite/verein/989

It seems he's done that, but really not by very much. For several years, I regarded Moyes as a ‘point person match' manager (and he'd probably scrape a few more).

His football as a consequence is dire, uninspiring and provides a constant level of frustration.

I suspect most fans are ‘grateful' to Moyes when it comes to moving a little further up the table -- none of us want the gut wrenching closure of seasons where we could slip away -- but we also feel that we want football that is potentially inspiring.

His football is dour (much like his personality), and it's sad to say that I just wouldn't want to bump into him in the street and shake his hand. He makes me feel like being an Evertonian is a dejection in terms of football.

Apparently, according to the press, Liverpool have had an absolutely awful season, and we've had a marvellous one. They've spent cash, certainly, but our lack of adventure is simply indicative of why we never step above and beyond them (and others).

A wonderful new stadium, new owners with the potential to ‘Make Everton Great Again'... and somehow we're left to watch miserable Moyes subject us repeatedly to a stale grind, week after week.

I'm disappointed to say the least, and hope that TFG vacate his position, and bring in some real visionary and objective quality.

Have some ambition, Everton.