Six months is a very long time in football — indeed, it is a quarter of the average Premier League managerial tenure, a sobering notion that no doubt haunts those head coaches in the division not named Pep Guardiola or Jürgen Klopp — and it was only in May when Frank Lampard was the toast of Goodison Park, celebrating joyously in front of the Directors’ Box after Everton’s stunning come-back win over Crystal Palace that guaranteed the club’s top-flight status for another year.

Lampard came into the season among the bookies’ and pundits’ favourites to get the sack in the early part of the campaign but there was broad support and confidence among Evertonians that the former Derby and Chelsea man could successfully steer the Blues clear of relegation danger last season while putting the building blocks in place for something lasting at Everton.

As this season pauses for six weeks for the World Cup in Qatar, Lampard has spent much of the currency he had built up with Everton’s fans. He has — and continues to — speak concisely and to the heart of what the club needs and what supporters demand but he is struggling to match those expectations on the pitch.

Everton go into the international hiatus sitting in 17th place, a point above the bottom three having won just one League match in seven and scored just four goals in that run of games. That sole victory, an impressive 3-0 humbling of Crystal Palace behind three excellent goals, appeared to indicate that the pieces were slotting into place for Lampard and his staff but it increasingly looks to be an aberration in a trend that is horribly reminiscent of last season under his predecessor.

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Strip Frank Lampard’s tenure as Everton manager down to the bare numbers and he does not represent an improvement on Rafael Benitez at all. Indeed, while the Londoner has a slight edge on the Spaniard in terms of winning percentage, on a points-per-game basis, Benitez is slightly ahead.

That owes a lot to the manner in which the Toffees started 2021-22, with three wins from their first four League games for a team spear-headed by Dominic Calvert-Lewin before he succumbed to a serious quadriceps injury that sidelined him for four months and the associated complications have made him an unreliable presence for the 11 months since.

Both managers suffered due to the England striker’s absence; Benitez at least had Richarlison while Lampard was able to rely on the Brazilian for the latter half of last season. This term, with Richarlison gone and not yet replaced, the challenge of grinding out enough points to keep head above water is that much harder and it’s one with which the current incumbent of the “hot seat” is visibly struggling.

Lampard will hope to avoid the record of just two wins from 16 that prompted Benitez’s firing in January this year because if Everton remain that poor by mid-February, it’s hard to envision him still being in the job… or how the club will remain a Premier League team this season.

The Case Against Frank Lampard

Though he was arguably the best candidate of an oddly mixed and restrictively small three-man shortlist back when the Everton Board were deciding on who should replace Benitez, Lampard represented a significant risk given his relative lack of experience.

He had shown promise at Derby where he incorporated some notable members of Chelsea youth’s setup into a side that eventually made the Championship playoffs final, only to fall short of promotion when they lost to Aston Villa at Wembley, a game that Lampard admits signifies the biggest regret of his footballing career to date.

If there was praise for his Rams team’s attacking emphasis (even though Derby were ranked towards the bottom of their division for xG, expected goals, that season), there were criticisms that his side could be too open defensively and vulnerable in transition, concerns that have surfaced at Everton, particularly this season.

With just that solitary season on his managerial resume, he was appointed manager of his beloved Chelsea in the summer of 2019 and guided them to a 4th-place finish and an FA Cup Final in his first season in charge. He would last just a few more months at Stamford Bridge, though, before a poor run of results, that began coincidentally enough at Goodison with a second successive defeat away at Everton, saw him sacked by then owner Roman Abramovich in January 2021.

Assessing Lampard’s performance at Chelsea is difficult, not least because that club hires and fires head coaches so frequently that they never really get enough time to get their arms around the challenge. Lampard gained plaudits for the way he dealt with a transfer embargo on the West London club by blooding a number of Academy players before helping plan a sizeable spending spree in the summer of 2020 that saw the likes of Kai Havertz and Timo Werner arrive for big money and with expectations on their shoulders to match.

With the resources of a “Big 6” club at his disposal, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to expect Lampard to have had Chelsea among the front-runners in the Premier League in his second season at the helm there but they were seventh when Abramovich pulled the trigger on the young boss and replaced him with Thomas Tuchel, who would finished 4th that season and win the Champions League having only been the job a few months. How they would have fared under Lampard is a question that can be pondered but never definitively answered.

Lampard may have successfully kept Everton up last season but he owed, some argue, an enormous debt to the Blues’ passionate faithful and it was in spite of a continuation of the awful away record that Benitez oversaw over the first half of the 2021-22 campaign. Crucially, the Blues won at Leicester in April but spurned the chance to make their final three games far less stressful when they could only manage a goalless draw against Watford at Vicarage Road where the Hornets were on a long run of defeats.

More than a third of the way through this season, Lampard’s charges have managed only one more win on their travels in the Premier League, that a comeback win over Southampton at the start of October. Those strikes by Conor Coady and Dwight McNeil are the only away League goals his Everton side have scored since the end of August, part of a worrying lack of threat up front in general.

Up until the 2-0 home defeat to Leicester and last Saturday’s heavy loss at the hands of Bournemouth, Lampard’s side had to a degree mitigated a shortage of firepower with stellar goalkeeping and dogged defending, with the partnership of Coady and James Tarkowski lauded as one of the best things to happen to the club in a while.

Both largely had an afternoon to forget at Vitality Stadium and Jordan Pickford dropped a clanger on the eve of his departure for the World Cup, where any repeat will see him slaughtered by the national press, but given that the team had allowed close to an average of 20 shots against them in their three preceding fixtures in all competitions, there was a large element of “playing with fire” about the way Everton have been playing.

And that cuts to the heart of the salient arguments against Lampard from those who doubt whether the 44-year-old has what it takes to lead the Toffees away from danger for a second season running. Everton are frequently overrun or simply by-passed in midfield. There is a lack of effectiveness and consistency in shape and the way the team presses from a defensive perspective, and almost no fluidity or production in the way they attack.

Moves frequently stall in the final third, there is a lack of movement and a shortage of runners up front and over the past seven League games, the Blues are averaging 2.4 shots on target per 90 minutes. It’s no wonder that they’ve only scored 11 goals in 15 games and have started shipping goals at the other end.

Part of it is due to personnel — Demarai Gray, Anthony Gordon and Dwight McNeil have one assist between them this season — but part of it is the system that Lampard is deploying. On paper, the midfield trio of Alex Iwobi, Amadou Onana and Idrissa Gueye offer more balance in the middle than Everton have had in a long time but the only time they have really looked cohesive in both an attacking and defensive sense was in that win over Palace.

That day, Onana was deployed in a deeper, double-pivot role with Gueye while Iwobi was given license to push further forward behind Calvert-Lewin but, inexplicably, Lampard abandoned it for the subsequent games and Onana, in particular, has looked less and less effective and less sure of where he is supposed to be. Gueye is often caught hunting for the ball in the opposition half, while Iwobi is often too deep to affect the play around the opposition box.

And when the Nigerian, who has far and away been Everton’s best attacking player this season, does get forward, he is often faced with a wall of opposition defenders and a lack of passing options ahead of him. Calvert-Lewin’s absence doesn’t help but nor does persisting with a tactic of angled high balls searching for the 5’ 7” Neal Maupay, a player visibly struggling in a setup not designed to play to his strengths.

These are all issues that Lampard and his coaching staff will have to focus on and address during the World Cup break. There are, unquestionably, big problems up front while Calvert-Lewin battles injury and we can only hope that help is on the way when the transfer window opens but it also behoves the manager to find solutions and mitigate these problems as much as possible and, on the evidence of the past couple of months, he doesn’t have the answers.

The Case for Frank Lampard

Given that the alternatives were an almost completely untried coach in the form of Duncan Ferguson and a complete wild card in Vitor Pereira, it’s perhaps not surprising that Frank Lampard was warmly welcomed by the majority of Everton fans when he was finally announced as the Blues’ new boss on the final day of the winter transfer window.

With his initial words and the clips of his first training session with his new team where he instructed them to “enjoy the ball”, the was a feeling that the club had employed a forward-thinking, energetic and hungry head coach who stood in stark contrast to the aloof, arrogant and deeply unpopular Rafael Benitez.

If nothing else, Lampard tapped into the spirit of Everton Football Club and quickly developed an affinity with the supporters and an appreciation, fostered by years of battles against the Blues as a player and manager for Chelsea, of what makes Evertonians tick.

Almost everything he said in those early weeks after coming on board struck a chord with supporters — he spoke succinctly when he underlined the problems he had inherited in what he described as a “broken” team that had become wracked by division and self-doubt under Benitez and sometimes when the occasion demanded, as it did after the 4-1 spanking by Crystal Palace in the FA Cup, he pulled few punches, publicly calling his players’ character into question.

Using his first half-season in charge, together with new Director of Football, Kevin Thelwell, he moved to address that shortage of mental fortitude in his squad by bringing in leaders like Coady and Tarkowski and attempted to shore up a weak midfield by signing Onana from under the noses of West Ham, signing young prospect James Garner from Manchester United, and bringing Gueye back from Paris Saint-Germain.

In parallel, while he wasn’t able to rouse much from Dele Alli — apart, of course, from an inspired half-time substitution that helped turn that game against Palace — Lampard had managed to get consistent form at the back from the hitherto erratic Mason Holgate and unleashed the potential of Iwobi, a player who had struggled to find his place at Goodison Park for two years after his big-money move from Arsenal and who had effectively been told by Benitez that he didn’t feature in the long-term picture at Everton.

Iwobi has been a player reborn this season, emerging as the industrious, creative heartbeat of the side and by some distance its most productive outlet in terms of the creation of chances and goals. While part of his renaissance was the realisation that the supporters will give him a good deal of latitude if he simply puts in the effort, a good deal of credit has to go to Lampard for giving him the confidence that neither Carlo Ancelotti nor Benitez could.

From making just 10 starts and completing the full 90 minutes only twice under Benitez, Iwobi would play every minute of Everton’s final 12 games of last season, starting with that memorable match against resurgent Newcastle under the Goodison lights in March where he scored a dramatic goal nine minutes into stoppage time.

Between those man-management successes, the knowledge he can pass on having played the game successfully at the very highest level, and his apparent ability to diagnose the deficiencies in personnel in his squad, Lampard brings a host of positive qualities to the Everton setup.

He wants to play passing, attacking football but was savvy enough to park his principles last season in favour of pragmatism and low-possession football based on trying to wring results out however they could be achieved, particularly at home where the Blues’ ceaselessly devoted fans helped drag the club away from danger almost through sheer force of collective will.

If he is struggling for consistent performances and results this season, a massive factor is the degree to which he has been hobbled by the loss of Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin’s injury problems, and a generally sub-par attacking unit that struggles to create and score goals.

Therein lies the crux of the emerging debate about Lampard and any discussion over who should be head coach in the short term. Most Evertonians would surely defy any manager to win matches with the forward players currently at the club. As mentioned above, only Onana and Iwobi have more than one assist to their name this season. Anthony Gordon, a player for whom Chelsea reportedly offered in excess of £40m over the summer, has none. The young winger is, however, the Blues’ top scorer as things stand with three goals; Maupay and Gray have just one each in the Premier League.

It’s worth keeping in mind that, while Lampard has managed just three League wins in 15 games so far this season, he was forced to play five of them without a recognised striker at all. Not enough was made of it at the time, perhaps through a sense of futility, given that the summer deadline had passed, and through a desire for unity, but the manager was badly let down by the club’s recruitment team during the last transfer window.

For more than a year, Everton have been living in the increasingly vain hope that everything will be fine once Calvert-Lewin is fit and firing again. Sadly, it looks more and more as though the time that the 25-year-old striker becomes a reliable presence capable of playing week in and week out might never come. Thelwell and Lampard need to be making plans accordingly, with an urgent emphasis on finding at least one goalscorer in the coming January window.

The team needed more goals even when Richarlison was at the club. Now, with him gone, without Calvert-Lewin in the side, and without an injection of goal threat at the earliest opportunity, it’s hard to see how we can see the best of what Lampard has to offer. It’s even harder to see how Everton can score the goals needed to keep the club in the Premier League.

Frank Lampard might not end up being the right man for the Everton job but it’s for the reasons spelled out here that it’s impossible to know from the current vantage point. He has no track record in turning around a club in straits as dire as these but if the club is able to pull the right rabbits out the hat in January, he stands more of a fighting chance.

In the meantime, and given that there are no guarantees in what is a notoriously difficult month in which to do business, Lampard must use these six weeks to find solutions — to his team’s shape and playing style, to how best to use this wide attacking outlets, to how to get the best out of Maupay and what he needs as a player of smaller stature, to simply getting his team to play with more intensity and more bravery.

Three home games either side of a daunting-looking trip to the Etihad Stadium on New Year’s Eve offer him an excellent chance to get some points on the board and lighten the mood around Goodison Park. He has done it before in the most desperate of circumstances; here’s hoping he can do it again and stave off the need for yet another managerial vacuum and more associated chaos. That’s the last thing this club needs right now.

Reader Comments (228)

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Paul Hewitt
1 Posted 15/11/2022 at 07:04:33
I have to admit I'm struggling to know if I want Frank sacked or not. His record isn't great but would changing manager now really make any difference?
Lee Courtliff
2 Posted 15/11/2022 at 07:42:29
Dig in!!!
Jim Bennings
3 Posted 15/11/2022 at 07:47:36
It's easy to forget – while we make excuses for young players lacking experience – that Frank Lampard himself is a young manager with only 3 years of Premier League management experience behind me.

That's why, from Day 1, I said we were too impatient with Marco Silva, another young upcoming manager who will eventually be very shrewd, in my opinion.

What the point is in sacking Frank Lampard, I do not know.

Sean Dyche's football will never be tolerated by our impatient fanbase, and it's like going back in time to when appointing Sam Allardyce, only a younger version.

I heard on Saturday calls for Duncan Ferguson; do me a favour... all you would get is a handful of pumped-up home performances and it would then follow a similar pattern to what we've seen under Lampard, so we may as well just keep the current incumbent.

Pochettino isn't coming near Everton or the north of England, nor would Thomas Tuchel, so let's forget pie-in-the-sky gossip.

Nuno Espirito Santo would be another name mentioned but again, read Sean Dyche, a rather dour character that the fans wouldn't relate to unless he very quickly changed our style – which, based on Wolves, he's not known for.

Who else is out there?

Pot shots on unknowns from abroad that could go either way, but very few are a success who aren't huge names. Bruno Lage at Wolves – another mediocre victim of change for change's sake.

We might as well start to realise that this club will go the same way as Watford or Sunderland: consistent changes of manager only leads to eventual demise.

We are already 80% on the way now.

Tony Abrahams
4 Posted 15/11/2022 at 08:00:30
I have privately christened you, impending danger, Jim B, (until now) because of how you post, mate. I rarely read you when we win, but your posts come thick and fast when we lose. One followed by another, then a little gap, and then a few more posts of doom, but I'm aware it's because of how much you must love Everton, and also aware that you are probably too busy celebrating to post when we win!

Anyway, Jim, although I am not sure on Lampard (how a once top midfielder can't sort out his midfield and get his three midfield players to complement each other is bemusing), I agree with everything you have just written, mate, and I think you talk a lot of sense regarding our current dilemma, in post #3.

Ian Bennett
5 Posted 15/11/2022 at 08:14:29
The season is like so many others where we have struggled. I could count 15 plus carbon copies of why we are in this shit.

No goals in the team – if you can't score, i'ts just a matter of time before you start losing games. You've got nothing to hurt the opposition with, and they know it.

Kendall Mk 2, Mk 3, the Walter Smith Years, when Moyes struggled, etc, etc, etc.

Why is that? For me, the scouting and willingness to try hungry lads continue to bite us and have done for years. We seem only too willing to buy slow plodders like Tosun, McNeil and Maupay because they've played at a higher level, rather than look at their basic characteristics – like they're too fucking slow to matter and have fuck-all intensity.

The season has started inevitably like so many. A shameful exit from the League Cup, where we've changed an entire team, in the middle of another poor run. We do it every season and never try anything different.

Frank needs to take this one. He's got players he clearly doesn't rate but, rather than cast them aside, he's played them – why? These clowns are done and the quicker we stop playing them, the quicker they will go.

Sports science is running the show over basic football common sense. What we are saying here is that the lads we have on £75-150k a week can't play two games a week. So even when the stars align and we are regulars in Europe, these boys can't cope.

If they could cope, you would play your best team, get some momentum, confidence and nail down patterns of play. I see none of that currently.

So that's my rudimentary analysis. No pace, a lack of momentum, constant injuries and brittle confidence. No manager in recent times has really grasped that issue. And that's why Lampard could be the next in line to go.

Dave Cashen
6 Posted 15/11/2022 at 08:24:08
An accurate and detailed account of why we are where we are, Lyndon.

I suspect your question will unearth an awful lot of fence-sitters.

"Knives Out or Dig In?" — I've changed my mind 2 -3 times already this morning.

Ajay Gopal
8 Posted 15/11/2022 at 08:33:59
I like Lampard and appreciate what he is trying to achieve. I don't believe for one moment that he is giving less than 100%. But, the last 3 performances and results have been horrendous.

With the present set-up, I don't know where the next goal is going to come from. The players look shot of confidence, and I think it was ill-advised of Frank to put his players under the bus after the League Cup disaster.

The 3rd goal conceded last Saturday was the softest I have seen us concede in a long time, and that indicates to me that the players are giving up on Lampard.

However, I believe that Lampard has an intelligent football brain, and I hope that he will reflect over the next 6 weeks on the things that went wrong, as well as the things that he has done right.

● Playing a back 4 with Tarkowski and Coady as the preferred centre-back pairing was right.
● Giving Iwobi the opportunity to find his right position in midfield and finding his spark was right.
● Mykolenko and Patterson as his preferred full-backs is right.
● Introducing Tom Cannon into the play – albeit only for a few minutes against Bournemouth – was right and quite encouraging.


● Relying on Calvert-Lewin as a sole front-line striker was wrong.
● Relying on Gray and Gordon to both play together as wingers was wrong – it robs us of any creativity.
● Dropping Tom Davies as soon as Gueye joined Everton was wrong. He gave us a string of 7/10 performances prior to Gueye coming in.
● Starting Onana in every game when he is available is wrong. He is just a kid in a new country and new and more competitive league. He needs to be gradually brought up to speed, and I think by next season he will be very good for us.
● Not playing Garner more often is wrong. I believe he will have a very good 2nd half of the season.

So, overall, my vote would be for Lampard to be given the chance to turn things around. He should also be supported by Moshiri to go and buy some quality attacking players.

And finally, Lampard should use these 6 weeks to train the shit out of our players until everyone knows exactly what they are supposed to do on the field – even with their eyes blindfolded. We still have 23 games to go and, incredibly, we are only 5 points off a Top 10 place!

This season's Premier League is extremely tight and competitive with a galaxy of world class managers – the clubs that hold their nerve have a better chance of survival.

Jerome Shields
9 Posted 15/11/2022 at 08:39:58
I totally agree with Jim. I say dig in.

IMO, enough of the players are not putting the effort in and more importantly have support within the backroom staff. Even players making an effort can be influenced by such an attitude.

In Frank's system, Everton attack as a unit and defend as a unit, but there has to be a constant transition from one to the other. It is in this transition – pushing the line forward, tracking back, providing support, being available for the pass – that it is falling down. The entire squad, as we have seen last week, is not prepared for this purpose.

You can blame Frank, but he is even wondering about the attitude and effort being put in by the players into his parallel play preparation. He has twice publicly said that the play of the players is not good enough.

But there lies the danger for Frank. How do those that prepare the players (especially outside his immediate team) and the players react? In Everton's past, not well – especially over a break.

Frank now has to act and confront this situation, which other more experienced managers failed in doing. The fact is that there are parties in the club which sacrifice Everton's progress for their own self-interest.

As a fan, it is obvious to me that I have to back Frank to manage, because that is the only way to break the never-ending cycle of Everton mediocrity. But it is a very difficult task, because the problem is deeper than the playing side. Lack of preparation during a Premier League season is very hard to catch up on.

Peter Mills
10 Posted 15/11/2022 at 09:00:32
There's an old Buddhist saying:-

“When you walk, just walk. When you sit, just sit. Whatever you do, don't wobble.”

I'm digging in.

Robert Tressell
11 Posted 15/11/2022 at 09:01:53
Retain Lampard and invest in the playing staff. We have to get attacking players in.

Paul Hewitt
12 Posted 15/11/2022 at 09:12:59
My worry is, we stay with Frank till the Wolves game then sack him if we lose. We would have just wasted 6 weeks when a new manager could have worked with the players.

If they don't sack him now, then they have to stay with Frank for the rest of the season, no matter what.

Dale Rose
13 Posted 15/11/2022 at 09:33:04
Just getting my shovel. Going to be a long winter.
Rick Tarleton
14 Posted 15/11/2022 at 09:42:10
Saying the right thing (and Lampard knows how to appeal to the Goodison faithful) is a small part of the job. More important is knowing how to get the best out of his players and what system to employ. What worked against Crystal Palace has actually been the only time this season, Lampard has got it right.

Chelsea are an unforgiving club, but he was a "legend" there and had a lot of goodwill, yet they still got rid rather speedily.

I'm reluctant to see us sacking and appointing another manager. We've done it far too often in recent seasons. We've had men who've gone on to manage Barcelona, Real Madrid, Belgium and Silva who's doing well with Fulham, and at Everton their effect has been minimal.That suggests that the real problem may be the layer above the manager. I've been penning anti-Kenwright articles for most of this millenium, as I'm sure Lyndon will confirm, less so in the last ten years because even I get fed up repeating the same points ad nauseam.

Lampard may get sacked, he may need to be moved on, but if Ancelotti's effect at Goodison was marginal, I think we might struggle to find a manager, who with the limited resources available, will actually make a huge difference.

Whoever manages the club has to turn the players, particularly the totally unbalanced and useless midfield, into a unit. Good luck with that task.

Dave Carruthers
15 Posted 15/11/2022 at 09:43:02
Another excellent article Lyndon, probably reflected in my head nodding during both of your arguments. Was also nodding in both Jim and Ajay's responses. I sit firmly (ish) in the stick box. The point was made earlier that we may have got rid of Silva too early and I feel strongly that nothing will be gained by another change. Frank has made progress in certain areas and, as we often say, who else is there?

Two things need to happen.

I hadn't realised till I read the article, that having delivered our best performance of the season with Onana and Gueye as the holding midfielders, Iwobi using his ridiculous stamina to play the roaming Number 10 role, all of which allowed the two wingers (who are not ideal but have certain strengths we should play to) the space to use their strengths.

This was then ditched against Fulham and Leicester (why the latter???) with roles changed and other players brought in. Why?!! So go back to that structure, certainly before the window. If Garner can play the Gueye role, then consider that but it seems to me the one proven structure we have.

Secondly is obviously the back-up (or main) striker. I have no idea what shape Calvert-Lewin will be in by the end of December. If fully recovered, it's a plus but we know we can't rely on it. In hindsight, Brereton Diaz for Maupay would have been a far more sensible transaction in August. Not buying McNeil and Maupay and going all out for Kudos from Ajax could have made a huge difference.

So…. Keep Frank, play the structure that seems to work, fingers crossed that Calvert-Lewin(and Godfrey who is now thankfully fit again) stays fully functional and fit and but two “good” strikers with potential and not average players who won't improve. Maybe risk Cannon and Mills as more active back-ups?

Easy from the armchair!!

John Pickles
16 Posted 15/11/2022 at 10:03:27
So, we ask the person/people who's supposedly chosen us the last 6 managers, all allegedly incompetent, to find us another manager?
Rob Halligan
17 Posted 15/11/2022 at 10:06:42
I always thought it was harsh on Lampard when he got the bullet at Chelsea, simply because of the reasons quoted in Lyndon’s post, ie, finishing fourth and getting to the cup final in his first season, being top, or near the top in his second just before Christmas when a run of five defeats (the first one being against us), in eight games led to Abramovich pulling the trigger. I mean, what wouldn’t we do to have a record like that recently?

Then when I saw Lampards Points per Game ratio yesterday, in links posted by Philip Warrington on another thread, you could understand why Abramovich is so ruthless. Lampards overall PPG ratio from 57 games was 1.67. He also had a 49% win percentage from those 57 games. Take that PPG ratio over a full season and you get around 63 - 64 points, enough to hopefully qualify for European football. In the season he was sacked, his PPG ratio was 1.53, which again taken over a full season brings you about 58 points. Probably not enough for European football, but clearly well clear of relegation.

So it’s pretty obvious, to me anyway, that Lampard has something about him to be a successful manager. The thing is though, at Chelsea he was working with better players than we’ve got. Without actually checking, I assume he had strikers who could finish, midfielders who could create goals and finish themselves, whilst here at Everton we seem to have hardly any. The only thing against Lampard at Chelsea was Abramovich. The man was as ruthless as any owner I’ve known. There are other ruthless owners, of course, the one at Watford and our very own Moshiri, but they are sacking managers because they are struggling, not because they have a near 50% win ratio, or enough points to maybe qualify for the Europa league.

So for me it’s keep Frank. He inherited a crock of shit, a crock of shit by the way that have seen off the last few managers, so why does anybody think a new manager will get anything out of them? He’s got rid of a lot of the deadwood, and, so it seemed until last weekend anyway, tightened up the defence. The club simply have to give him time and also the money in about seven weeks time to go out and buy at least two strikers.



Danny O’Neill
18 Posted 15/11/2022 at 10:27:28
When I debate, I always like to see both sides of the argument, so I like that article, Lyndon. Very well balanced. As your writings always are.

For me, it's hold your nerve time. I'm fed up of the managerial merry-go-round. It hasn't achieved anything. It's kept us afloat wearing armbands. It hasn't progressed us.

Within reason, and unless it goes proper tits up, try and stick with something.

People can tell me that football is different now, so maybe it's a generational thing, but we've been here before with the most successful manager in our history.

Rob makes a good point about Chelsea. But Chelsea had the structure, strategy and vision in place. Moshiri left it to Kenwright and keeps hitting the panic button.

Hold your nerve and for once, see something through.

That's my view.

Laurie Hartley
19 Posted 15/11/2022 at 10:30:26
Not a question of 'knives out' but I am sorry to say I have lost confidence in Frank Lampard. I think if we dig in, we will be digging our own grave.

The whole club needs a shake-up but it has to start on the pitch because the immediate priority is points.

Mark Taylor
20 Posted 15/11/2022 at 10:31:53
We have been moderately rubbish for the past 6-7 years, during which time we have had, excluding temporary personnel, 7 different managers, one a year. I would suggest that the definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

It seems pretty obvious to me that the real problems at the club are not all or even primarily to do with the manager. Sacking them each year is just a blame-shifting exercise

Pat Kelly
21 Posted 15/11/2022 at 10:32:29
Dele Alli, Maupay, Gueye, Onana, Vinagre, McNeil. Building blocks for the future?

This and a couple of limited centre-backs is the team Lampard is building. Lumbered with more deadwood.

Meanwhile he continues his apprenticeship at a, for now, Premier League Club.

No shape, no cohesion, no goals... No more!

Steavey Buckley
22 Posted 15/11/2022 at 10:35:54
One question I can't remember ever being asked to Frank Lampard in any of his interviews this season: Where are the goals going to come from? And who is going to score them?

So far, all Everton have is Maupay, who has scored one goal from one shot on target in 3 months, Calvert-Lewin, who was injured at the beginning of the season, and Rondon, who can't catch a bus.

Dave Lynch
23 Posted 15/11/2022 at 10:47:26
Anyone who expected Frank to change the mindset and malaise at this fuck up of a club is simply deluded.

"Trigger Happy EFC" is more an apt term as the hierarchy constantly search for something that cannot be found... ie, stability overnight.

Sack him and we're back to square one in a heartbeat, he needs a couple of strikers, granted... he will put that right in the next window, of that I have no doubt.

Remember we still have millions of pounds of deadwood who are rinsing the wage bill.
The Australian foray I suspect will give him the chance to blood the young strikers and get them some experience.

On another note... I've read on a couple of footy news sites we have talked to Bielsa… god forbid.

Larry O'Hara
24 Posted 15/11/2022 at 10:56:12
Certainly stick.
Until the last couple of games Frank had sorted his one major flaw: defence.
Ironically, not starting Cannon etc previously was him being cautious in a way he wasnt at Chelsea
He now needs to throw caution to the winds and start Cannon/Garner.
And he needs to be backed in January: or is the Kean money as mythical as Arteta money?
Definitely stick
Paul Hewitt
25 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:06:01
Seen a few reports today were after Bielsa.

26 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:08:06
Bielsa? I do hope that is lazy journalism Paul and I'm not shooting the messenger by the way!!

A club that went closer to relegation that we did last season with an apparently more exciting team.

One that has exchanged a manager who gets agitated and sits down or squats to one who gets agitated and points at his I-watch continuously. But as long as they get agitated, it's passion right? Or is it loss of control of the situation?

A team that is currently one point above us and on a similar goal difference?

Bielsa? No thank you.

Brian Murray
27 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:10:46
Mark post 20 Yes the stats don’t lie but before the last six seven years was you content. Is that what the theatre man alluded to good times. Not my or big Neva idea of Everton
Garry Martin
28 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:11:17
We seriously need to include the 'so called' manager or person who goes around the nation/globe advising on the purchase of new players. Who ever that person is needs to be brought into the calculation and focus, its not all the managers fault .......just a thought !
Tony Everan
29 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:12:23
Posted on Steve’s excellent thread but equally relevant on Lyndon’s.

Simple questions. Has Frank improved us in the time he has been here ? No. We’re unwatchable, it’s only because we live and love the club that we do. Not for any footballing enlightenment. Are we any better than under Benitez? No. In fact we we’re probably slightly more of an attacking threat under the dreadful Benitez. Under Frank at the moment we create next to nothing, and hardly ever score. No goals in five of the last six league games, most opponents shooting at will every few minutes. That cannot be acceptable.

I want stability, the next to last thing I want is a manger change. The last thing I want is relegation.

There’s plenty of mangers out there who would be relatively on a par with Lampard and only a few that would do better with our squad.

So really it 100% depends upon who you are going to replace him with for a change to make any sense at all.

I’d be all for it if we can get a quality manager in who can guarantee to bring one, hopefully two forwards with him. Because whether we stick or twist with Frank the issue of goals is not going to go away without bringing some real threat in. Maybe even one buy and one on loan if necessary.

Without these two attacking players any manager will suffer and the death spiral will become inescapable.

Right now we have been given a remarkable gift, a parting of the Red Sea moment for EFC. A window of opportunity and a real chance to get out of our accelerating decline.

30 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:13:56
That's more like it Tony Everan. This is our winter 1983 moment revisited.
Rob Halligan
31 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:20:52
Who’s the mysterious poster at # 26 and # 30. I’m guessing it’s Danny, they certainly read like something he would post.

32 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:22:31
That's me at 26. Also at 30 Rob.

Not sure why my name hasn't come up!!

Am I on a yellow?

Brian Wilkinson
33 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:28:18
There is not a lot I can say really that Ajay@8 has already said, apart from one grating issue with me.

Without repeating almost the same as Ajay has said, one thing that Frank must change, is reactions to danger quicker, with the 5 sub rule now available, Frank must tweak a couple of earlier subs if everyone of us can see it as clear as Day, was understandable when there was only the one sub, then 3 sub rule, you could use that sub, then either the goalkeeper or a key player gets injured.

With the new 5 sub rule, there’s no excuse not to use two subs, and still have a further three available whenever, sometimes just a couple of subs will be fine to rectify the issue, then see how the game pans out, if needed then make further changes as the game goes on..

If you have a young striker on the bench, and the striker on the pitch has not done anything, take a chance earlier, don’t wait for the team to be 3 nil down with 10 minutes to go, before putting him on, try him earlier, try him alongside the striker, instead of like for like swap.

If your main striker has not had much service, taking him off for another striker will not help, put a striker alongside him, to help out, give the opponents something to think about, if they have done a job on the striker, they will do the same for the oncoming striker, if he is the lone striker.

Overall we have 6 weeks to try and drill something into the players, we can get there with Frank, but he needs to make use of the subs options, and be more alert when we are being over run, fix it sooner rather than later, don’t wait for 60 to 70 minutes, if needed get one or two on at ht.

Steven Whiting
34 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:28:23
Unfortunately, Frank's looking clueless and is coming unstuck at a rate of knots.

If money ends up being tight in January, I have no belief whatsoever that Frank and his team can steady the ship and start to score goals. Our set-pieces, for example, are truly horrific, the midfield is a disorganised rabble, and the defence and keeper have been carrying us all season.

Most importantly though, at least 5 players have visibly stopped believing and appear to be going through the motions waiting for change to happen. That change must either be quality attacking reinforcements or a change of manager and, with Financial Fair Play restrictions biting, the Everton board will be forced to choose the latter. I therefore give Lampard until February at the latest.

Brian Murray
35 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:42:34
McNeil and Maupay are bound to come back and haunt the best of managers when we badly needed pace and goals so no sympathy for Frank there as well as his woeful in-game management: always like-for-like and (like Benitez) too late.

Having said that, if Bielsa is all this, err, Board can come up with give him the funds for January but make sure Thelwell is involved. At least hoping he knows the premier more than brands did.

Paul Cherrington
36 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:52:20
I can see both sides of the argument and wouldn't be surprised to see Lampard go – but I would stick with him personally.

I just think the club needs stability and he should be given another transfer window to keep rebuilding the side. We have tried changing managers lots in recent years too and whoever we get in ends up with the same issues, so I can't see how doing so again would improve things.

Looks like it's the players, not the manager, who is the major problem and that will only change over a few transfer windows.

Lampard did make a big mistake in only having one decent striker in the squad coming into the season though (and then letting the best young ones go out on loan). You are always asking for trouble in that situation – even if he had stayed fit, did he not think Calvert-Lewin might sometimes need a rest or sometimes be out of form?

Eddie Dunn
37 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:58:30
I respect the balanced article and respect many of the views above, especially Rob, who went to Bournemouth twice.

My own view is that Frank was awful last season and nearly took us down. He has continued in the same vein this term and has failed to change a system that does not work.

Indeed, our point at Fulham was fortuitous and we have been outplayed, torn apart on many occasions – only amazing last-ditch blocks and goalkeeping of the highest order have kept us afloat.

I know Iwobi has found a new lease of life and that Coady and Tarkowski have improved us. I also like Patterson and Mykolenko. But the club have waited on Calvert-Lewin for far too long and Frank has lost Richarlison.

He hasn't had much to spend but, even so, his tactics have been wrong. His subs have been like-for-like and he fails to identify tactical problems and rectify them in-game.
For me, he needs to be shown the door.

He is too inexperienced and he looks like a rabbit in the headlights. I think he has blown it with the players – they know he has got it all wrong.

I would get Dyche in. He did get Burnley playing some very good stuff for quite some time and is not the dinosaur many believe.

Stu Darlington
38 Posted 15/11/2022 at 11:58:57
Certainly a case can be made for getting rid of Lampard right now.

The primary responsibility of a manager in any environment is to get the best return possible from the assets under his control. This he has manifestly been unable to do, apart from the odd game where he has appeared to have hit on a playing system that works for us – only to change for the following game.

Young and inexperienced he may be, but he is also tactically naïve and unable to motivate the squad to at least run their blood to water on the pitch even if we don't have the quality.

Having said that, I think we have to stick with him at least for now, constant changes have achieved nothing except instability and, as other posters have quite rightly said, the problems at the club go far deeper than just the manager. Fans calling for the return of Moyes, Martinez and even Allardyce are simply deluded.

We need to hope that we can get at least two players in in January who remotely resemble strikers and that Lampard can sort out what is his best midfield formation is so we are not constantly being overrun.

How we could go through the Summer transfer window without recruiting an out-and-out striker or two is just unbelievable, when the need was so obvious.

If this doesn't succeed, then I'm afraid the future is bleak, because Moshiri isn't going anywhere soon, so governance and management aren't going to change – and therein lies the root cause of all our problems.

Dave Lynch
39 Posted 15/11/2022 at 12:21:51
Eddie @37.

"Frank was awful last season and nearly took us down."

We were all but down when he took the job... he kept us up!!!

Un-fucking-believable comment.

Eddie Dunn
40 Posted 15/11/2022 at 12:42:12
Dave, he had loads of opportunities to get those points. He did almost blow it. Get a grip.
Steve Brown
41 Posted 15/11/2022 at 12:47:31
Eddie, do you live some inverted parallel universe where night is day, black is white and right is wrong?

Benitez nearly got us relegated, not Lampard - 1 win in 13 league games. And frankly it irritates me reading the apologists for that manager coming on here to justify his diabolical tenure and demand Lampard is sacked.

If I had backed the Spaniard, I would have taken a vow of silence on all matters related to the club for a year.

Kevin Molloy
42 Posted 15/11/2022 at 12:57:01
The defence is okay, more than okay, very good. The front 3 are capable of getting a few goals but no more, which might just be eoough if we have a functioning midfield. Sadly for us, we seem more and more not to have that.

The elephant in the room is that Onana is very erratic. I get the impression that he's a difficult chap to coach, he seems fond of making his own decisions. If Onana continues to underperform, I think it will get Frank and us the boot.

The one great ginger hope we have is that West Ham sack Moyes as we are being forced to sack Frank. Moyes would keep us up, just.

Duncan McDine
43 Posted 15/11/2022 at 12:59:22
As far as I can tell, Lampard has not lost the dressing room, and that is often the start of the end for any manager. He also hasn't yet been on the receiving end of the match-going fans' abuse, so I can see him being given another handful of games at the very least.

If we find ourselves in mid-January without another league win, and an early exit from the FA Cup, then I think almost all of us will have the same thoughts. But for now, I want him to be given more time.

Steavey Buckley
44 Posted 15/11/2022 at 13:04:00
There is not one team in the Premier League that Everton are confident of beating, for one simple and clear reason: Everton don't have regular goalscorers.

And if nothing changes between now and the end of this season, Everton will be playing football in the Championship next season. Where there is no guarantee of doing well there, without regular goalscorers.

45 Posted 15/11/2022 at 13:07:35
This is Danny by the way, just in case my name doesn't show up again, which it hasn't on the last couple of posts for some strange reason. I haven't changed anything, so not sure what's happened.

Moyes? No thank you. Didn't deliver a trophy in 11 years and lowered expectation. A reunion made in heaven with you know who. As per my previous Bielsa comment, one place above us but this time equal on points and with a very similar goal difference despite having an apparently better squad.

Has someone mentioned Allardyce? Please tell me not. Feel sick and sad at the prospect. I got anxiety last time; if we went there again, I think I'd be physically sick.

Martinez? Okay, I ate humble pie that first season, but then the reality and chickens came home to roost. If I could, I'd introduce you to my brother. He is very opinionated on Martinez. And not in a good way.

I'm for sticking. And for once in years, seeing something through and giving it a chance. Maybe we have a plan on and off the pitch. As I keep saying, Moyes wouldn't have been long gone on the basis of some assessments.

I and many others travelled to watch Everton 3 times in the space of these past 2 weeks. Some 4 times. Others got up at ridiculous times to watch them from widespread areas of the globe.

I'm not hiding or dressing anything up. It was painful and hurt. It hurt a lot.

I'm just fed up of the managerial changes when nothing actually changes where it needs changing.

Eddie Dunn
46 Posted 15/11/2022 at 13:22:38
Steve @41,

Wow! In case you might be getting me confused with someone else – I certainly didn't back Benitez. I am not living in a parallel universe – I just have a different opinion to you.

Frank spent most of last season telling us how there were still 50 points, 40 points, 27 points etc, etc available to us as his team lost week after week. We were saved by a last-ditch substitution and our wonderful crowd.

This term, Frank has had a preseason, he has brought in some players. We have played some pretty football on occasion but we have been torn apart too many times.

His main problem is his system. He has seen it fail, he has blamed everyone else but he hasn't taken responsibility himself.

Cannon came on with 15 mins to go at Bournemouth. Frank has surely seen enough of the lad to realise he couldn't do worse than Maupay. So why did he not get the kid on earlier?

His midfield set-up is utter dross and Frank was such a good midfielder. My worry is that nobody will want to come to Everton knowing he is on his last chance, and if we leave it till February, it really will be desperation stakes, with the new coach having to perform miracles.

If he stays, then obviously, I hope he gets it right... but at the moment, I think I have seen enough to predict relegation.

Brian Murray
47 Posted 15/11/2022 at 13:24:45
Danny. The danger as usual is, if (and we know it's a big 'if') we have an upturn in form, then all is hunky dory and the likes of you post about San Siro, here we come, lol.

Not having a go but it's Everton fans' nature not to scratch the surface if "Grand Old Team" is belting out after an under-the-lights win. Perpetual loop, you might say. Suits this club down to the ground.

Mark Taylor
48 Posted 15/11/2022 at 13:38:04
Brian @27,

I guess you are inviting me to comment on Moyes? I think history has ended up treating him kindly regarding his time with us.

I recall posting on here, when he left – and that departure was to the relief of many posters – that we would do very well to find a manager who could deliver his average finish of around 7th, with some seasons higher than that.

Some claimed he limited our ambition. I see it differently. He maximised our resources and potential. What limited our ambition was an owner who didn't have two brass farthings to rub together at precisely the point in time when money was beginning to talk very loudly in football.

Since he left, we have indeed come nowhere near his average finish, let alone made a rare foray into the Top 4. What makes that so painful is that, while not exactly having the financial power of Chelsea or Man City, we finally got an owner(or maybe in truth a hidden owner) rich enough to splash the cash for the first time in decades.

What really sticks in the craw for me is that we had our chance and we blew it, big time.

Michael Fox
49 Posted 15/11/2022 at 13:51:14
I'm all for digging in, I think he needs more time.
Rob Dolby
50 Posted 15/11/2022 at 13:57:21
I want Lampard to at least have a January transfer window to improve our goal-scoring department. He is a promising young manager who is hungry to progress and to prove a point. He isn't here for an easy payday.

In the summer window, we did improve strength in depth but didnt land a striker which will be his undoing if we don't get one in January.

We are better than last season in certain departments of the team.

The centre-backs are stronger and lead on the pitch.

Gana is a vast improvement on what we had. Onana if played as a holding centre mid with Gana make us so much more solid.

Iwobi and Mykolenko have improved from last season.

Team performances have been mixed at best with the last few weeks being terrible.

No matter how bad we have played under Lampard, we are nowhere near as bad as under Benitez. That appointment is the worst in my time of supporting the blues.

Pete Clarke
51 Posted 15/11/2022 at 14:08:43
I have to admit that I was warmed by Frank's arrival at Everton given he was such a great player and I have enjoyed his clear and open interviews and general feel for the club.

The downside of Frank is that he clearly isn't at the top of his game right now with how to get a poor team functioning at 100% although the Liverpool and Palace games gave me hope.

The derby in particular gave me great hope because, for the first time in years, we actually had a go at those bastards so there may be a good manager in there just waiting to mature.

The past few games however are pretty much as low as one could ask for from players and manager alike and I got the feeling with the Bournemouth cup game and similar with last game of the season at Chelsea, that maybe he doesn't care too much because they were disgraceful efforts by him and the team. There are other examples too of course which put massive doubt in my mind about if he's got it or not.

So the way I feel now is that Frank should stay only because we can't get beaten for a few weeks anyway and we are only going to cop for more misery if and when Kenwright and Moshiri get together to pick another failure.

Talking of the two clowns who run the show it is a bit hypocritical of us all to be calling Frank out when we ourselves are failing in our duty to get rid of the root cause of all our issues.

We are a pretty messed-up club which has long lost its status as one of the greats. Lampard himself is educated enough to remember us as being one of them, so possibly took the job with this in mind.

I'd like nothing better than for him to be the person to build us back up from the ashes but, if he's going to do it, then it will definitely be against all the odds. Adversely for us, if he did, then no doubt England would come calling anyway.

Barry Rathbone
52 Posted 15/11/2022 at 14:09:46
We recruit at the 6/10 level but expect results that are 9/10 and have done for most of the 60+ years I've supported.

Only a handful of managers have worked that trick – Shankly, Clough and Wenger spring to mind – but such men are as rare as hen's teeth. I'm not even sure it's possible in today's game so, unless we unearth such an innovator, stick with Frank.

(We did have one who had the makings but chased him off to Belgium.)

Brendan McLaughlin
53 Posted 15/11/2022 at 14:41:56
When Frank took over last season we weren't in the bottom six. He promptly took us there. Fortunately for Frank & Everton, there were four worse teams than us and we finished fifth from bottom but safe.

Franks now had a couple of extra months with the players, a transfer window and a couple of fresh faces added to the sqaud. And the net result...we're currently fourth from bottom.

And yet people are saying stick with him. I can certainly see why Frank feels like an Evertonian.

Tony Abrahams
54 Posted 15/11/2022 at 14:49:42
When the chickens come home to roost, then being an Evertonian, can go a very long way, but maybe this is a decision that can’t even be taken just now?

Phil Friedman
55 Posted 15/11/2022 at 14:55:36
For God's sake, everyone calm down. We are two wins (6 points) from 9th place. Let's concentrate on getting a scorer in the January window.
Bill Gall
56 Posted 15/11/2022 at 15:06:22
To fire your manager, you have to have someone in mind that is going to be a hell of a lot better. Bringing in a new manager, you also have to expect that he will want to bring in his own training staff and fitness coaches. The Premier League at the moment, apart from the Top 8, is wide open; with a couple of wins, you can jump 4 or 5 places at a time.

We are aware of the weakness up front but this only come about after Calvert-Lewin, training after his recent injuries, got injured 3/4 days before the season started; otherwise, he was expected to start.

Everton did try to bring in another striker, but right away some players' value they went after doubled, and other forwards wanted to push for a place in their own team.

So far, Lampard has had 1 transfer window and strengthened the major weaknesses from last season and that is the back 4. Also, he is overhauling my major criticism, and that was the midfield. To me, with the finances available and under FFP restrictions, the 7 in front of Pickford are as good or better than most in the 10th and below teams.

We have another transfer window coming up where the major expenditure will have to be on goalscorers, and at this time, some of the players we were after at the end of the last transfer window, their price may have come down, or others are not getting as much playing time as they want and are willing to move.

I will hold my hand up – after the Bournemouth game, I was ranting and raving that Lampard had to go, but one thing it did show from that game was that he called the players out from the midweek game, and other players are now being vocally critical of their own and the team's performance.

It is looking pretty bleak at the moment but my question is: Who can you bring in that will suddenly make this team better without bringing in new players?

My opinion at the moment is you stick with the devil you know, rather than go with the devil you don't.

Barry Hesketh
57 Posted 15/11/2022 at 15:26:30
It seems as if the Everton board are going to stick with Frank, at least that's according to Football Insider who also claimed earlier in the day that Bielsa would be considered as Lampard's replacement.

I doubt that Frank's position has even been discussed by the board, given the club goes to Australia this week.

Darren Hind
58 Posted 15/11/2022 at 15:27:36
I wonder what those who claim changing managers has not achieved anything have actually been watching? The fact is; We owe our Premier League status to changing managers.

Martinez, Silva, Koeman and Benitez all had us heading towards the exit door. They had to go or we'd have gone down... Even Carlo left us in a state of free fall when he left.

Leaving Everton in free-fall isn't the only thing these fuckers have in common. Everyone of them had a spell where they were getting some sort of a tune out of the players at their disposal (some longer than others) but they all resorted to the cowardly stuff. Not fucking one of them was prepared to attack – I'm deliberately leaving Zombie Sam out of this. He was a shithouse from the off.

What this club needs is a Davey Moyes. Not the current Davey Moyes of course. We need the one we had before he jumped into the sack with our duplicitous fucker of a chairman and sold his soul to expectation management.

We've tried the flavors of the month and the big names. They've all been a complete wash out.

How about we get somebody who doesn't have a reputation to protect? Somebody who thinks the game is about entertainment and winning.

The only way to stop a managerial merry-go-round is to bring in the right guy in the first place.

You wont find anybody discussing the future of the manager on Newcastle and Arsenal websites, but here we are... again.

Brian Harrison
59 Posted 15/11/2022 at 15:34:25
Seems a fair majority of posters are leaning towards keeping Lampard in charge. Some are suggesting to give him a few more games to see if he can turn things around, and there are those who think he should be sacked.

Those saying stick with Frank, mainly say we need stability and changing managers to often is why were in the mess we are. I have to say I totally agree about changing managers to often doesn't help. But strangely none of these sentiments were put forward before we sacked Allardyce or Benitez, and mostly the ones urging we stick with Frank were some of the most vociferous in wanting Benitez and Allardyce sacked.

The reason some clubs like Wolves and Villa and Southampton have changed managers now is because this year is unique in that for the first time ever the World Cup will take place in the middle of the European season. So clubs in trouble can bring in a new manager and give him 6 weeks to work with the players.

So for those saying give him a few more games are hoping for an upturn in results but if that doesnt happen then bringing a new manager when games will be coming thick and fast gives him very little time to change much. So I think its now a choice of now or not till the end of the season.

I would just hope that those suggesting we stick with Frank if it fails don't come on here and castigate the board for doing exactly what you wanted them to do. So own your decision if it fails and we get relegated then admit the board got it right. The stats say we will be in a similar position to last season if the current for continues.

Eddie Dunn
60 Posted 15/11/2022 at 15:38:03
For Lampard's backers and those sitting on the fence, let me ask you all a simple question.

If we were to sack him now, who else would employ him?

He will never work in the top two Leagues again.

He will go straight into punditry.

That is how poor he is.

Brian Harrison
61 Posted 15/11/2022 at 15:49:27
Darren @58,

I agree with many of the points you raise and I know for some strange reason you didn't like Ancelotti as much as I did.

But if you take any of our managers in the last 100 years, Ancelotti comes 3rd in the list of % of games won, Kendall Mk1 has a win % of 54.1, Catterick is 46.5 and Ancelotti 46.3.

Steve Shave
62 Posted 15/11/2022 at 15:55:11
I'm just about in the 'stick' camp for now; sadly, though I have significant doubts he can turn this around. I hope he proves me wrong as I like him a lot.

Reports today linking us to Bielsa, now that would be interesting and, if we twist, I would love us to get him in. He would get them and the crowd fired up, he would attack and he would wheedle out the shithouses not up for the fight. He also has a tendency to leave his teams in a better place than when he started with them.

Mal van Schaick
63 Posted 15/11/2022 at 16:15:48
My concern about Lampard is, that he and his backroom staff knew that we were short of, or did not have goal-scorers other than Calvert-Lewin, and did not address the issue seriously in the summer only to bring in Maupay who has done nothing.

With an impending crisis beckoning yet again, with the threat of relegation, I am struggling to say that Lampard is the right person to deal with this situation before it worsens.

We don't have a lot of time to ponder a decision about replacing Lampard, games are running out.

Robert Tressell
64 Posted 15/11/2022 at 16:16:45
Eddie @60, I agree with you. It is, however, also relevant to ask if we sack Lampard now who do we replace him with?

And how does that replacement restore our fortunes with the squad currently available?

Unfortunately, we have been absolutely wrecked as a club by the utter incompetence of Moshiri's first few years in charge – which leaves us with a mid-table squad at best, and a relegation-threatened one unless Calvert-Lewin is firing on all cylinders.

Add to that the financial problems we're in for repeatedly buying fast-depreciating assets and we don't have a lot of room for manoeuvre.

With my eyes open to this, I prefer to keep Lampard and back him with forward options as much as the rules and finances allow in January.

John Davies
65 Posted 15/11/2022 at 16:20:05
Pete Clarke #51.

"Talking of the two clowns who run the show it is a bit hypocritical of us all to be calling Frank out when we ourselves are failing in our duty to get rid of the root cause of all our issues."

What a brilliant comment. You have nailed it right there Sir.

Dig in for me by the way but we must get a top rate goal scorer in January. I know, who's going to want to come to Everton?

Jay Harris
66 Posted 15/11/2022 at 16:35:55
I must admit to being schizophrenic on this one.

My heart says stick with Frank. My head says get rid of Lampard.

The thing causing my dilemma is I should believe that Frank knows better than all of us, after all, he has operated at the top level of football for a long time but so many team selections and tactics have been so obviously wrong, it makes you wonder what is going on. At times, as nonsensical as it sounds, I wondered whether Kenwright and/or Moshiri were picking the team and tactics.

I have always said the proof of the pudding is in the eating and Frank's pudding has been a disaster.

We can point to Calvert-Lewin being unexpectedly out injured for most of the season but you have to question why we brought Maupay, McNeil and Onana in – none of whom can score goals.

My biggest concern is not that Frank has lost the dressing room but that the dressing room has lost him.

He seems incapable of handling the chaos that surrounds him and being such a nice guy does not work in this environment.

The whole club needs a good shake and one man cannot achieve this – especially one as nice as Frank.

Duncan McDine
68 Posted 15/11/2022 at 16:39:47
Between Boxing Day and 14 January, we have 3 home games against mediocre to poor opposition (Wolves, Brighton, Southampton) as well as a trip to Man City. If we don't win any of those home games, he'll be gone for absolute certain.

If that happens, the powers that be will resort to desperate measures (Big Sam / Moyes etc). Let's hope for all of our sanity that we manage to win a couple of those games!

Raymond Fox
69 Posted 15/11/2022 at 16:41:08
Barry 52, hear, hear, it's not a new manager we need, it's new players and I'm sure Frank knows that better than anyone.

First up: a midfielder who can put his foot on the ball and hit someone in the open.

Then two strikers who know where the goals are.

It's going to be difficult to find these players but we can't rely on the squad as it stands now.

Mark Murphy
70 Posted 15/11/2022 at 16:41:42

Arteta was a dead man walking not that long ago but Arsenal stuck with him despite, not because of, their fans' opinions.

And with Eddie Howe, hindsight's a great thing but there wasn't much support for him on here when we were looking around. Newcastle's attack is much better than ours and it's our attack that is sadly lacking, IMO.

I'm changing my mind after every post for or against, but my gut feeling is we should stick and back Frank until our first-team squad is his first-team squad.

Rob Halligan
71 Posted 15/11/2022 at 16:44:43
Unfortunately Tony, John and Peter, we can't just sack Kenwright or Moshiri, unlike the way they can sack Lampard.

By all means, any protests will show them we're not happy with the current situation, but ultimately it's down to them if they leave or not.


Tony Abrahams
72 Posted 15/11/2022 at 16:50:55
I’m hoping and praying that we won’t need these protests Rob, and we are soon to have new owners, because I personally think it’s the only way we will ever see the back of Bill Kenwright, other than death.
Ray Roche
73 Posted 15/11/2022 at 16:52:56
Last time I checked, Allardyce was still unemployed...

I wonder why?

Ray Roche
74 Posted 15/11/2022 at 16:57:48
John @65,

"Who's going to want to come to Everton?"

To paraphrase the film title: Pay them and they will come.

It's all about the money unless you've been on Haaland's wages for a couple of months and can afford to be choosy.

Steavey Buckley
75 Posted 15/11/2022 at 17:03:53
Frank Lampard, one of best attacking midfielders in English footballing history, who scored an awful lot of goals for Chelsea, failed to sign any regular goal scorers this season or the last, and this is the main reason why Everton have 14 points from 15 games and 3 wins all season.
Paul Washington
76 Posted 15/11/2022 at 17:11:09
Jay #66,

I'm the same, heart and head situation. If we were a couple of places higher up the table, I'd say 'stick' but... Frank can't seem to get another 5-10% out of these players which a good man-manager could.

I think he's made some strange decisions, especially one up front against middling teams.

This time last year, I'd say the vast majority wanted Benitez out; now, most in this thread want Frank to stay, whilst the stats are approximately equal.

Coupled with that Guardian report about Bramley-Moore Dock, this is yet again a shitty time for us.
It's never bloody easy, is it??

Joe McMahon
77 Posted 15/11/2022 at 17:11:15
Ray@73 Big Sam is also in his lates 60s' to be fair. Sean Dyche is 51 and Big Dunc is 51in a couple of months non of them are managing anyone either. To use your phrase "I wonder why?"

The football at Burnley was awful under Dyche, my wifes from the Burnley area so seen them many times over the years. Vincent Kompany's style is much easier on the eye.

Like many I feel we to have stick with Frank, changing again will cost the club a fortune (we haven't got).

Paul Swan
78 Posted 15/11/2022 at 17:21:28
I like Lampard as a manager and have desperately wanted this to work for him and every Evertonian but he looks increasingly clueless and this is the biggest concern for me.

We had limited funds available over the summer and he has blown that on a slow one-footed wonder, a forward arguably worse than Tosun, and a midfielder who may be a work in progress but who has not done one thing of merit in all the games he has played so far.

Got to go for me, unfortunately.

Trevor Peers
79 Posted 15/11/2022 at 17:22:03
Meant to put this post in here.

Unless something very strange happens, like a miracle, it's nailed on Lampard will lose his job. Not now… but by the end of January, when we'll be in such a bad state everybody will be clamouring for his resignation.

Looking at our next seven fixtures, only Wolves away, Brighton and Southampton at home look remotely winnable for Lampard, not easy though as two of those will have new managers installed. If we don't take any points by mid-January, he'll be long gone before we have to face Arsenal and Liverpool in early February.

The sensible thing to do would be to sack Frank this week and give an experienced manager the 6 weeks available from now until the end of the World Cup, to make his mark and install some sort of stability.

But you can virtually guarantee Everton will leave this decision until the 'last chance saloon' scenario, the end of January.

Dale Self
80 Posted 15/11/2022 at 17:23:17
Jay 66, let's not ponder Frank's pudding, leave that to his wife.

This is of course a very thoughtful article and is fair to Frank in assessing both his capability and his situation with this squad. I believe there is enough quality in this side, even without Calvert-Lewin, to be getting some results but Frank has not figured out how to hang on to points – although he has addressed the backline instability for the most part. While the argument can be made that he deserves to continue on his own performance, there must be an acknowledgement that, as stated above, Saints, Villa and Wolves have all improved their positions.

I'd love to hear Thelwell come out and calm my nerves by saying that he believes in the Frank project and, while we've had some setbacks, it is still on track. Short of that, I am getting a bit nervous about the repeated tendencies that are ineffective in his selections and substitutions.

The overall performance has improved beyond the truly desperate play we saw last season. However, we are far from an integrated football system that the players can coach themselves through. The players recently have looked a bit lost and Frank is not able to change the structure to impact the game; we just fade.

Unfortunately, results require the discussion. Maybe someone is available after the World Cup (we can dream of Luis Enrique can't we?). In the meantime, I think we as a club, fans and all, face the circumstance without making excuses, set some targets and make a move if targets fall short without any reconsideration since it will be emergency mode, Have candidates in contact and be ready to deal if that is where we end up.

Ray Roche
81 Posted 15/11/2022 at 17:24:12
Joe @77

The answer to ‘I wonder why' is, in my opinion, they're either dinosaurs, play crap football or don't have enough experience to manage successfully in the top flight.

As for going cap in hand to Allardyce, I'd bin my season ticket before I'd go and watch one of his teams at Goodison.

Darren Hind
82 Posted 15/11/2022 at 17:42:35

Arteta did more in his first season than any Everton manager has done in 27 years. He won a trophy, beating City in the semi final and Chelsea in the final.

He then went on to win the Charity shield beating the shite.

Last season after having to rip Arsenal up and start again, he finished one win away from a CL spot. This season he is blazing a trail everybody is struggling to keep up with ..... I really wish we had employed a dead man walking like that.

I don't know how long you have been logging on to this site but there has been calls for Eddie Howe for years on here. Loud ones.

He was never my first choice but I always said he was a great shout. I didnt support the shout (as some claimed) because he was an Evertonian. I supported it because he had performed miracles getting Bournemouth through the divisions. Then spent years defying gravity with them. He also played better football than any of the miserable fucks we employed.

You may not have seen many people calling for him this time around. That was because a well publicised short list had been drawn up and he wasnt on it.

The Hindsight you speak about goes back years on this website

James Newcombe
83 Posted 15/11/2022 at 17:45:33
I don't know how long Frank has left here. But I can't escape the feeling that the next guy will be phenomenal.
Dale Self
84 Posted 15/11/2022 at 17:49:12
'Hindsight'! Perhaps you should do a regular write-up, that reads well. And yes I will declare that I took some cheap shots at Eddie baby and look a fool for doing so. He is spending that money wisely and I am so fucking jealous that Newcastle has Guimares.
Brendan McLaughlin
85 Posted 15/11/2022 at 17:54:15
James #83,

I have the same horrible feeling...fill's me with dread.

Roberto didn't take long to transform the "best of the rest" Everton into a bottom-half outfit. Imagine what he would do inheriting a team already battling relegation.

Jack Convery
86 Posted 15/11/2022 at 17:59:37
In my mind, Kenwright will have Bobby Brown Shoes back in the hot seat, quicker than you can say Belgium (with its world-class players) are out of the World Cup. Kenwright didn't want him sacked when Moshiri pushed the button to bring Conman, sorry Koolman, sorry again, Koeman, to Goodison.

I am convinced that Onana arrived on the back of Bobby Brown Shoes telling Kenwright to get him. He will take us down. I have no doubts about that. He's an idiot. Goals from corners are not real goals!!!

Kenwright – you have to go – Please!!! Enough is Enough!!!

Bill Gall
87 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:09:11
The major problem is: If you fire Lampard, who do you get?

Is it someone who has just been fired, or someone who has been fired and has turned down other clubs, or the final alternative – someone still with another club and is willing to leave them for Everton? – Who are not a very attractive club at the moment, unless you just want 6 months employment with an attractive payout after it.

How many games was it when all you heard was "Super Frank, Super Frank"? All this complaining is because of the Wednesday game and then the follow-up.

Isn't Bielsa in discussions with Bournemouth? The one I thought may work at Everton was Chelsea's ex-manager but he already turned down Aston Villa so I doubt if he would come.

Firing is easy; hiring the right person, as we have found out, is not.

Mark Murphy
88 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:18:23
“Hindsight”!! — I honestly didn't spot that!

Darren, an honest question: Why do your retorts come across as angry or sarky?

My apologies if I'm misreading the tone.

Danny O’Neill
89 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:19:22
Constantly changing the manager has been the crux of the problem.

Instability on the pitch. Instability at Finch Farm. Constant change. But not where change is truly needed.

Allardyce? Possibly more divisive than a certain Mr Benitez.

Sean Dyche? Please no.

The return of Moyes to reunite and become Kenwright's nodding dog again. Please no.

Danny by the way, just in case I'm still being denied an identity!

I'm prepared to strap in for the ride. Keep changing at the wrong level of the club and nothing will change.

Rob Dolby
90 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:31:47
Darren, give it 18 months and Eddie Howe will be looking for a job as Newcastle will appoint a Thomas Tuchel type manager to get them up with the big boys.

Steavey - Lampard has only had 1 transfer window to operate in.

Does anyone think that it's a coincidence that the two longest-serving Premier League managers are the most successful?

Should we start painting the walls with "Lampard out" like we did with Kendall Mk1?

Maybe give Mark Robins a call to see if he can still play upfront for us and scramble a goal that started a dynasty.

Ian Hollingworth
91 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:38:14
Arsenal have spent a lot of money and spent it on better quality than the players we buy. I don't mean recent Everton purchases – I mean for some years now. I doubt Arteta could do at Everton what he is doing at Arsenal.

There is too much wrong with Everton FC, and has been for years, and unfortunately the fans generally always have a reason why not to confront the club. A manager cannot fix everything at a club, especially not one that has been run as badly as Everton has.

The only current positive is how magnificent the new stadium is starting to look.

We could always pick up the phone and ask "What would Everton do?"

Kieran Kinsella
92 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:40:41

In 2003-04, under Moyes, we ended the season with 1 win in 10. Finished with four consecutive defeats and the age-old “losing the dressing room” argument emerged as Moyes fell out with Dunc.

If we'd sacked Moyes that summer (as Kenwright allegedly tried to do with a rumored approach to O'Neill) after a lowest ever points total and 17th finish, everyone on reflection would have said we were correct to fire Moyes if we had then done as Moyes did and finished 4th the next season.

Point being we don't know for fact we would have been relegated had Koeman, Silva, Rafa etc stayed. We can certainly say it looked likely but it looked dire for Moyes too and he turned it around. So we don't know what would have happened with any of them.

Adrian Evans
93 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:44:09
Frank has to take a lot of blane for not marching into Moshiri's office, house, demanding two top class strikers or I'm off!!! He should have collard Thelwell in no uncertain terms:
"Don't buy a couple of goal machines and we stand a bloody good chance of being relegated!" He didn't, hasn't and has let himself, the players and the fans down.

Took a gamble he could be 9 to 12 points better. In fairness had Calvert-Lewin been fit, getting better, scoring a few, we would be 6 to 9 points better. Maupay would have been a bit better. The teams Frank put out would have competed better, thinking we could score.

But it's gone, the gamble: Gordon at 9, Rondon, waiting for Calvert-Lewin. Failed, Lampard might pay for it with his job. I don't want that. But two top-class strikers, one goal machine will be required. Maupay will be better alongside quality.

If Gordon stays, for me, it's the Riot Act. You get picked, deliver quality final balls, score goals. £100k he wants??? Sell him.

Jordan Pickford might have to be sold; I'd wanna go to a top side if I was him. £60M
and 5 surplus squad players, £40M.

Also take a stab at getting Allegri to tell Moise Kean to come back, 20 games to prove he can score against Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle, Man Utd. He's Juve's No 9, scoring for fun. He's ours, they want a discount.

But he will have to be told, "Your Juventus future depends on you going to Everton for 6 months, 21 games. Go have the chat Frank with Allegri, Moise Kean. Get us a second on loan – they've got 7 forwards, all better than us.

Keep Frank, back him. But he's gotta get nasty, tough, the bastard ruthless manager. It's something every top manager needs to have.

David West
94 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:45:25
I think Jim B at post 3 gets it spot on. DIG IN!

A change of manager might give us a little boost but will it change the long-term outlook? Unless you are talking top-tier guys, who probably would run a mile before taking the job, you are back to Square 1. DIG IN!

Silva could have come good; his team now are playing quality football.

The board have to come up with funds for forward reinforcements. I'd like to see Lampard and Thelwell spend it. Any new manager would want the funds. No manager would take the job without assurance that he could buy players

A change will have cost issues that could be spent on forwards, not compensation for a new guy or paying off Frank and his staff. DIG IN!

They have sold the main goal-getter from last season... Go buy one! Or two!! If we don't, how can we expect to compete? It's goals we need. Not another manager trying to get goals from the same non-scoring players! DIG IN!

Then dig in them pockets, Moshiri, and get us some goal-scoring players!

Danny O’Neill
95 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:48:02
I've often called Eddie Howe the English Roberto Martinez.

He done a great job at Bournemouth but eventually took them down.

He is enjoying an early honeymoon at Newcastle. Whilst not comparing styles, it reminds me of Mark Hughes at Manchester City.

I question whether he'll sustain it and if their vision goes to plan, as soon as someone more glamorous becomes available, they won't hesitate.

Like Liverpool with Rogers once Klopp lifted his skirt.

Andy Walker
96 Posted 15/11/2022 at 18:54:35
Just get Moyes back. Best manager we’ve had in 25 years.
Danny O’Neill
97 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:05:06
I wouldn't dispute that statement, Andy @96.

But I'd ask what the "best" is measured against?

25 years of what?

27/35 (soon to be 28/36)

Mike Allison
98 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:06:38
We're in this mess because we keep getting rid of managers and never build anything properly over time. We never establish continuity or consistency and managers are always having to cobble together a team from players they didn't sign.

If we can't learn this lesson at the 5th time of asking, we deserve to go down.

Joe McMahon
99 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:17:19
Kieran @92 exactly, very good points!
Clive Rogers
100 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:19:28
David, 94, the funds in January will be severely limited by FFP.
Howard Don
101 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:24:17
Dig in! Lampard has been badly let down by the club's failure to recruit a proper out-and-out striker (to me, Maupay is an old-fashioned No 10, inside-forward type) and that absence is not going to change by recruiting yet another manager.

By-and-large, Frank had steadied the awful defence we had last season and earlier this season we ground out point after point without having any capacity to turn those draws into wins. Eventually, the constant pressure on that improved defence, with absolutely no outlet, has begun to tell and they are conceding goals with next to no hope of pulling them back at the other end.

I say keep Frank but, whoever is in charge in January, a proper striker has to be found from somewhere.

Steve Shave
102 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:24:40
Ray @74,

I don't think throwing high wages at the manager works for mediocre teams. It turned out badly with Koeman and Carlo, didn't it?

Anthony Dove
103 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:27:15
Andy @96,

I'm afraid your kind of post is what I dread most when we have the possible new manager debate. If Moyes came back, we would have to rename Goodison "Jurassic Park".

At least on this one, Benitez and Sam are no longer on the table, but I can't relax with Moyes and Martinez still apparently to be finally written off.

There was an old boxing adage ‘they never come back' and it can be equally applied
to football managers and players. How Howard Kendall was brought back for a third stint after the disaster of stint Number 2 still wakes me up at night.

Frank to stay, for me, but obviously things have got to pick up. I can't remember the last manager who really gave the younger players a chance but it might be Frank's best option now.

Steve Daniells
104 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:31:08
Great article, as always, Lyndon.

I'm with the "dig in" camp. Many us always say we want a young manager. We want someone to grow with the club. We've got it.

He's going to make mistakes. The last couple of games has been atrocious. There will be more low points along the way. Even Howard Kendall Mk 1 suffered before things turned for the better.

Some of us are casting nostalgic glances at Marco Silva, and even David Moyes, but my memory of their final weeks was that many fans couldn't wait for a change.

Frank inherited a mess. With Thelwell, the defence and midfield have been overhauled. Start from a solid base. Calvert-Lewin's injuries are a nightmare, but I think most of us wanted to concentrate on midfield and defence at the end of last season.

We wanted youngsters. We got them with Onana, Garner and McNeil. We wanted leaders. We got them with Coady & Tarkowski. We wanted him to give Patterson a chance. He did.

Calvert-Lewin's injury messed up preparations and continue to disrupt everything. If only we could have sold Calvert-Lewin and kept Richarlison...

Frank is doing what most of us seemed to want. It's slow. Did I mention he inherited an absolute mess? He's also working with a dysfunctional board. He'll get there, but we need to hold the line.

Chopping and changing managers every 12 months will only continue the slide backwards. We need to break that cycle. We need to stand with Frank.

My two cents!

Brian Wilkinson
105 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:37:00
I will leave it to Pete Wylie to sum up how us Blues must be feeling, great tune.

Here in my pocket, I got the story of the blues,
Try to believe me, cos' it could be front-page news,
I say I live with it, like it hasn't happened yet
I keep thinking of everyone, I know I'm the one they're trying to get
To tell...

Story of the Blues
First they take your pride, then turn it on its side,
And then you realise you've got nothing left to lose.
So you try to stop, try to get back up,
and then you realise you're telling the Story of the Blues.

Feeling browbeaten, day after day,
I think it's over, but I just can't get away.
You say forget it, well don't go jump to the gun,
You're laughing this time, next time you might be the one
To tell...

The Story of the Blues.
First they take your pride, then turn It on its side
And then you realise, you got nothing left to lose.
So you try to stop, try to get back up,
And then you realise, you're telling the Story of the Blues.

Repeat chorus...

What they say about me when they tell,
The Story of the Blues…

Trevor Tannenbaum
106 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:48:17
Steve @104. I think you've summed it up perfectly. Should make that the headline that everyone can read.

We asked. He delivered. One gap which has been ruined by an unfortunate injury (and they were trying for Kudus). How much better were we when Calvert-Lewin was fit?

Sell some in January. Get two strikers in. One on loan. Get out of the relegation zone and then onto next season.

We have to start somewhere!!

Andy Walker
107 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:49:44
Hi Danny, ‘the best' is measured against Moyes's peers, that is, other Everton managers during those 25 years who all failed to do as well as Moyes, in terms of average league position and acquiring players that ultimately were worth £10s mills more than Moyes paid for them.
Tony Abrahams
108 Posted 15/11/2022 at 19:59:23
Off topic, but going back to the summer, it did seem like we bought most of our players on the never-never? Whilst Burnley let us have McNeil, it was alleged they wouldn't let us have Cornet, unless we paid the money up front. (He never came.)

Tarkowski was a free, Coady was a loan, same as Vinagre, and Onana was supposedly only signed because his transfer fee was spread right across his 5-year contract?

This just leaves Maupay, who was brought in during the final few days, for a very paltry fee considering his position, even if it definitely looks like we have overpaid for him right now!

My point is: How many of these players would Lampard have signed if Everton never had to operate in this very unprofessional way?

Darren Hind
109 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:01:46

They are not good points. Moyes was never in danger of going down that season. He was mathematically safe long before the end. He could have lost two more matches and we still wouldn't have gone down. barely a narrow escape.

To say we don't know for a fact that Koeman, Silva and Rafa wouldnt have turned it around is a bit like saying Liz Truss might have turned it around if she was given more time.
Sometimes you have to cut the inevitable off at the pass.

Rob @90

You could well be right mate. Howe is doing very well at the moment, but he will be expected to go into what for him, is uncharted territory. He isn't working for those awfully nice chaps down in Bournemouth now. If he cant make the step up to top bracket management. He'll be out of there quicker than you can say Mark Hughes.

This is his shot at the big time

David West
110 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:10:46
Mike @98 perfect post, short n sweet.

It's this short-sightedness that will be our downfall, who wants to come to Everton if they know they've got 12 months max to fix 20 years of disaster??

At least Frank had the balls to take it on! Don't put pressure on him – put our support behind him!

If anyone thought Lampard would have us top-half pushing Europe after 12 months, they are deluded. These are the same people who know the mess that was left behind after Rafa. Yet want it all fixed in one Summer!

Clive @100. FFP may play a part. But listening to Lampard, he seems to think there is room to manoeuvre in January. Well, it's pretty simple if you look at the table and the Goals For column, it's essential.

Find the money, sell someone, loan someone in. Do whatever it takes because the teams around us will be trying to improve. £50M for Gordon don't seem so bad now, does it?

Jay Evans
111 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:12:06
Dig in.

And calm down.

Can everybody please calm down?

Moyes and Martinez, don't make me laugh. Try and remember how they ended their respective jaunts with us, not how they started off.

Dig in and calm the fuck down, please.

Ian Bennett
112 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:13:38
McNeil and Maupay were what? £27M, and wages of what? £120k per week. £6.3M plus a season for the 3-plus years. So a £45M commitment.

You give that to a Brighton, Brentford or other well-scouted outfit in Europe and they give you something a bit better than them carthorses. It's just too easy to buy garbage.

Robert Tressell
113 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:18:46
Tony # 108, it is not off topic in my view – it the biggest issue we face and is directly linked to the manager position.

The summer recruitment, sale of Richarlison and purchase of a mixed bag on the never-never, was precisely because we are skint.

We obviously wanted Broja, Joao Pedro, Gibbs-White, Kudus and maybe Brereton Diaz too – but either there was no deal to be done or we couldn't meet the sellers' demands.

Failure in this respect is why we're dropping points.

Unless we can sort this out, it doesn't really matter who the manager is. All managers make mistakes. Some look good because they inherit a good set-up (DeZerbi). Some look good because they've been given time and support to build (Thomas Frank). Some look good because they have spent a fortune on excellent players (Eddie Howe).

Place either of these three managers in charge of this Everton side and they might suddenly start to look completely incompetent.

We simply have to recruit attacking players. The whole manager issue is a sideshow compared to that.

Dale Self
114 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:20:08
Look man, just because we are considering a managerial change does not immediately imply some kind of freakout. Calm the fuck down about calming the fuck down! You are insulting some posters by characterizing their statements as emotional tripe when they are running through some fairly good points on Frank.

To some extent, Frank's predicament is due to some squad inheritance but not all of it by any means. He deserves tremendous credit for resurrecting Iwobi's form but has failed to inspire similar performances from other players. The jury is out for good empirical reasons. The table and recent stale performances make that clear.

Danny O’Neill
115 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:25:52
Brian @105, I quoted that song some time back. Very apt.

So is their other classic "Come Back". Please come back Everton.

Although ruined for me with a quote from that song in the middle if you listen carefully. Great video with footage of the city though.

Either way, Story of the Blues and Come Back. Please.

Andy, I agree, best manager in 25 years. But then that's the problem with statistics. You can adjust to fit the narrative.

Martinez is probably the best in 10 years.

Kendall the best in 40 years.

It depends where you draw the line and measure.

And your standards.

Tony Abrahams
116 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:26:06
Very good point, Ian. Everton have been stuck in the same position for years, and until we get a real plan in place, we are going to be changing managers for the wrong reasons, at the same rate as we have done since Moshiri came into our club.

You mention well run clubs, who are genuinely punching above their historical weight, but our Everton have never been so punch-drunk.

Brendan McLaughlin
117 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:34:44
Obviously the managerial merry-go-round isn't ideal but I haven't seen anyone arguing strongly that we should have kept any of the previous incumbents.

So we were right to get rid of the previous managers but now, as we face into a second successive relegation battle with him... it's imperative we keep Frank.

Mark Murphy
118 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:37:57
Another song comes to mind:

Eye to eye stand winners and losers
Hurt by envy, cut by greed
Face to face with their own disillusions
The scars of old romances still on their cheeks
And when blow by blow
The passion dies sweet little death
Just have been lies
Some memories of gone by time would still recall the lies
The first cut won't hurt at all
The second only makes you wonder
The third will have you on your knees
You start bleeding, I start screaming
It's too late, the decision is made by fate
Time to prove what forever should last
Whose feelings are so true as to stand the test?
Whose demands are so strong as to parry all attacks?
And when blow by blow
The passion dies sweet little death
Just have been lies
Some memories of gone by time will still recall the lies
The first cut won't hurt at all
The second only makes you wonder
The third will have you on your knees
You start bleeding, I start screaming

Trevor Cotterell
119 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:48:36
Dig in.

I don't often comment on here but seems to me that, if there's one thing we're good at, it's going round in circles. And that gets you nowhere.

As others have said, he's had one window. We know there were FFP rules in play. Yes, it would have been great to get strikers as well but he's concentrated on trying to shore us up, and until the last two matches, we've been way better.

I suspect the money just wasn't there for anyone else (I have no proof of that). If you want to think that one of the best English, nay worldwide footballers of his generation doesn't understand the need for strikers, then fine... I suspect he does, but couldn't do anything.

So is it his fault? No doubt he's done a few things that had me scratching my head. I've guessed that probably he knows more than I do about football in general and the state of the people under his control.

So let's look back. Martinez – a crap manager? Well, Belgium aren't that shabby. Ancelloti? Well, he managed to win a trophy or two (well, a lot more). Benitez? Forget for a moment that he was a red... you can't ignore that he's actually won rather a lot when he had the players. Etc.

So my gut feeling is that are players just aren't good enough and/or aren't the right combination for one manager's style.

Which leads me to the inevitable conclusion that swapping him for yet another person who gets 10 minutes then has to be replaced, really won't solve anything. Whether we like it or not, this is a long-term project. Yet again we've had many suspect decisions go against us, and players getting injured. He needs to money, and time, to continue a rebuild that is in its infancy.

I wish we were further up the table. I don't like the results any more than anyone else here, but the league is getting tighter and tighter (outside the top few) all the time. Anything can still happen and I was seeing the start of some belief. We need that to continue...

DIG IN gets my vote!

Michael Boardman
120 Posted 15/11/2022 at 20:48:39
We aren't sacking Frank, that much is clear (as he would be gone by now). So we have to stick by him, whether I agree or otherwise.

As it goes, I would have kept Silva, possibly given Martinez more time with some money, but Koeman, kiss my behind.

Allardyce, he negotiated a 2-year deal for a reason, and Benitz – shocking we went near him given his previous comments.

Anthony Murphy
121 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:04:02
This whole debate was so avoidable - fucking Bournemouth!

Had we visited Man City twice in a week and had our arses handed to us on a plate, I'd be saying dig in, but he's in last chance saloon with Wolves on Boxing Day. I'll hold fire until then but, if Wolves under a new boss turn us over, he has to go 100%.

The trip down under should have been cancelled by the way – or send the kids, because if Wolves do beat us, it's what everyone will point to and Frank will be a gonner.

Tony Abrahams
122 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:12:03
I don’t think it’s imperative that we keep Frank Lampard, Brendan, but I do think it’s imperative that we get new owners into our club, and start to take a completely different route than the one our last three owners have taken.
Christy Ring
123 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:12:30
A very balanced article Lyndon.

I agree with Jim @3. Can anyone tell me a good manager who's available, as someone mentioned earlier Tuchel and Pochettino are pie in the sky. Biesla would be a disaster.

The problem in my opinion started when Moshiri appointed Koeman. Since then, the massive money spent and wasted by him and the following managers on average players, who were given massive contracts, is why we are in this shit now.

The managers had more money to spend than most teams in the Premier League. Lampard inherited an imbalanced squad with no pace, some injury-prone players, and we survived relegation.

Before he tried to improve the squad, in his first transfer window, he had to sell Richarlison. What does that tell you about Moshiri or Kenwright giving him money to spend?

As Tony said, we couldn't buy Cornet because they wanted the money upfront. He brought in players on loan, free, and Onana fee is over 3 to 5 years. He bought Maupay for £12M, that's all he had to spend, as Calvert-Lewin was injured.

In my opinion, the owner has to back him in January or pay the price. Frank has made mistakes, but he's doing the job with one hand tied behind his back, the squad isn't good enough. A new manager is not the answer, the powers that be is the problem.

Andy Crooks
124 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:14:27
Not an easy one.. but.. dig in. Frank is likeable, dedicated and utterly committed to our club. Now, none of that will get us where we want to be but it's a head start on anyone the appalling Kenwright will dig out. Yeah, let's stick with the good guy and go all in.
Barry Hesketh
125 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:15:05
Michael @120,

I wouldn't put much store in the fact that he would have gone by now if he was going to be fired. The team left for Australia earlier today, and there isn't a league game for six weeks, so an absence of any news one way or another, doesn't necessarily mean that Frank is safe from the chop.

Martinez and Moyes are bound to be high on the list of favourites to replace Frank - if he's fired - and if the Chairman has anything to do with the choice. The unlikely possibility of new ownership could also alter the dynamics and could also seal Frank's fate.

The only good thing that has come out of the last three games is that it has woken all of us and the club up to the reality of where we really are as a team.

The three out of four games at Goodison, following the World Cup are perhaps the most important set of fixtures we've had for some time.

I sensed a bit of apathy by the fans for the last home game, perhaps lulled into a false sense of security, following the Palace victory, the fans and the team felt they would easily beat Leicester City and as per usual, when the team and the crowd aren't fully up for it, we all got our eyes wiped.

There can be no such apathy by the players or the fans, for those three upcoming matches at Goodison, it has to be full throttle by both, and whomever is in charge whether it's Frank or somebody else, the team has to win at least two of those games if not all of them to keep us out of that dreaded bottom three.

The real issue as has been mentioned by many, is the complete lack of goals in this current squad, hopefully, In Australia one of the younger strikers can show they are worthy of at least an opportunity to be in the first team.

Derek Thomas
126 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:25:37
We've tried the revolving door so digging in is next, how long for is the real question.

New owners, decent window, Ronaldo on 6mth loan - January is looking good.

*Snap of fingers...aaaaaaaand you're back in the room.

Andy Crooks
127 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:28:27
Tony, I take notice of your posts and I know it has taken a lot to get you as angry as you are. "Imperative" is the word. Board room tactics and match tactics are both linked and not working.
Kunal Desai
129 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:34:13
Dig in. He needs January and the summer to bring better forwards and creative players. If we are in the same situation 10 games in next season then that might be the time time bite bullet.

My worry is how much support he will get from the board to reinvest in the side. Probably sell Gordon in Jan and most likely Pickford in the summer seem most realistic. He needs time but he also needs a level of financial support which i'm not so sure he might get.

Tony Abrahams
130 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:46:45
I’m angry because I don’t believe that the fans can take much more of the shite we have been witnessing forever Andy. If we hadn’t got rid of so many managers, in such a short space of time, then I don’t think that many people would be saying dig in - right now, but most of us can now see the bigger picture, and also realise that our club can’t go much further, operating as it currently does, mate.
Laurie Hartley
131 Posted 15/11/2022 at 21:51:40
I have read through all the posts but I haven’t changed my mind since my post @ 19.

Maybe a decision is being postponed until after the Celtic friendly. I think there may be a lot riding on that game for Frank.

Barry Rathbone
132 Posted 15/11/2022 at 22:13:45
The worry with Frank is he's made 2 monumental blunders straight out of the manual that the vast majority of coaches seem to use as a bible - "knobhead football management".

Playing the stiffs in the cup and reverting to deadwood "names" in Dele Alli and Gana are chapter 1 - "the mug manager".

His charm and acquisition of 2 centre-backs have him hanging by his fingertips but a miraculous change in results is needed to save him.

David West
133 Posted 15/11/2022 at 22:33:12
Laurie 131. Well if we sack our manager for losing a pointless friendly, that would just be ridiculous.

It's this short-sightedness, the need for instant success, the week-to-week swaying from we are okay, to we are shit, to we are going down that's our problem.

Getting in a couple of free signings and a few young lads and expecting to fix a multitude of long term problems is unrealistic.

Building slowly but steadily, sustainably, incremental steps to improve is the only real way to build under the financial situation we are in.

Let's stop thinking we are a couple of wins away from being secure and see that it's a long process that will take time and patience.

Putting Frank under more pressure will not help.

Eddie Dunn
134 Posted 15/11/2022 at 22:48:44
Okay chaps, the team (of sorts) have gone down under. So we play Celtic (of sorts), so it will be interesting just what we can do against them, and then the is the game against the Sydney side. I suppose two decent performances might buy Frank a little time.

Now I am not pretending that Lampard has had it easy. I know the FFP stuff has tied his hands to some extent and he has lost Richarlison, but the arrival of McNeil (instead of Cornet) and Maupay (instead of Brereton Diaz) really looks uninspired.

I know the players "love Frank", as I was told it just 2 weeks ago by a club insider.
Perhaps Frank is too nice for this shower?

Anyway, depending on who is available (for the manager's job), Frank might return to find someone else bringing his box of tricks to Finch Farm.

I wouldn't rule out Frank resigning if we fail to hit player targets in January anyway, as who would blame him? He could easily blame the club and players and slip away before the real shit hits the fan.

I just want to see some attacking football, some pace, some goals. People on here saying Dyche is a dinosaur, well the anti-football served up by Lampard would have got anyone the sack in any team in the Premier League.

And I ask again... who the fuck else would offer this guy a job?

Neil Copeland
135 Posted 15/11/2022 at 22:49:58
To me the real key is a striker who gives us the same sort of balance that DCL does. We look so much better he plays. The whole team look more confident and positive and that permeates to the support also. Goodison was a very different place for the Palace game than it was against Leicester, DCL was a big influence on that because he gives us all that extra belief.

I think the reason for Frank playing Onana in a more forward role against Leicester and Bournemouth is because he was looking for the spark that we get when DCL plays.

I am not trying to imply that DCL is the answer to all our woes, he isn’t. But having a striker in the team that the other players and fans have confidence in makes a huge difference. We need to get a decent back up striket in during the Jan window.

If we change managers then who will come in that will make a real difference and we actually want? It doesn’t matter who is the manager because they will face the same striker-less team belief problem.

Keep Frank, he is getting to know us and genuinely comes across as really wanting Everton to succeed. The players seem to like and trust him and the fans do too. Get him a decent striker back up and I think we will be fine.

Pete Clarke
136 Posted 15/11/2022 at 22:57:29
If this season had not been interrupted by the Corrupt Cup then we may well have been getting the answer to our conundrum this weekend.

Moshiri and Kenwright are probably as relieved as we are right now that there is a break in the season because it would have brought them back into the spotlight sooner rather than later. Our problems with managers, players and the general running of the club are multiplied by having these two at the helm because they lump it all onto the shoulders of each manager when it really needs an organized team effort from all involved to get the club back on a good footing.

An example of this is the sale of Richarlison. He was still under contract and so we did not have to sell him. This decision alone could cost us our premier league status. Who made that decision and was it based on money alone without further thought or are we such a nice club that we had to satisfy Richarlison's wishes?? Who sanctioned the Maupay deal?

We could have any good manager in charge of us but he's always going to be hampered by the dysfunction at the top.
When Frank Lampard came in last year I honestly thought we were already down but I was happy in the knowledge that it would no longer be Rafa the red taking us down.

We are a bit stronger at the back with his signings but a lot weaker in attacking midfield and definitely no better without DCL and with Maupay in for Rondon and it looks like he's got this short break to try and sort those areas out. Goals win games and without them there's no doubt we are going down.

If Frank Lampard is the one to take us down and build us back up the so be it but we all know that he will be gone for another makeshift manager before that happens and life as a blue will continue to be painful under the incompetence of the current board.

Kenwright Out.

Shane Corcoran
137 Posted 15/11/2022 at 23:18:38
I'd be giving him the next four games but I kind of feel his departure is inevitable.

His best bet is to see if the Chelsea of this January have sobered up or if they still want to fork out whatever it was on Gordon.

Take that cash and buy/loan a striker and attacking player that can run and shoot a couple of times a game.

Brendan McLaughlin
138 Posted 15/11/2022 at 23:31:20
I think we don't have the money to sack Lampard and his entourage, bring in a new management team and also strenghen the squad in January.

So we'll keep Lampard and allow him to add to the squad in January and see how things go. Hopefully even with Frank at the helm there will still be three teams worse than us and it's not impossible that we might begin to climb the table a little.

Always glass half full...

Laurie Hartley
139 Posted 15/11/2022 at 00:10:46
David # 133 - my opinion is based our managers points per game ratio, tactics, and substitutions since he has been here.

I admit to being guilty of swaying from one position to another. I think that is due to the fact that I desperately want to believe we can regain our status as a very good and well respected premier league team. We have lost that.

Does the loss of DCL make Bournemouth a 6 goal over 2 games better squad than us? I honestly can’t come to terms with that.

Regarding the friendly, I hope for Frank Lampard’s and our sakes, that he doesn’t think it’s pointless because his managerial opponent won’t. He will want to hammer us into the ground because sportsmen from this particular part of the world have a winning mentality; even if it is a game of tiddlywinks. Don’t let his quiet demeanour fool you; thats the way they are. Winning breeds confidence and pride - loosing saps both.

Ed Prytherch
140 Posted 16/11/2022 at 00:16:07
I think that there is a greater chance of Frank resigning than being fired. It depends upon whether the owner backs him in January.
Lester Yip
141 Posted 16/11/2022 at 00:34:28
Dig in. We just can't afford to change manager. Every time such change will just have players bringing in and moving on likely at a loss.

Lampard has got the defence sorted. Sort of. The leaky defence against set play is gone.

Getting goals is always a problem. Not sure whether we should stick with loan strikers.

Larry O'Hara
142 Posted 16/11/2022 at 00:41:23
Lester, I agree. Far too many trigger-happy wannabe Football Managers here
Brian Wilkinson
143 Posted 16/11/2022 at 00:59:42
How about now that's what I call a typical Everton CD, Danny.

1) Help
2) Way down
3) the first cut is the deepest.
4) tears of a clown (bill good times mix)
5) don't go breaking my heart
6) tragedy
7) My way ( what would Everton do mix)
8) Panic
9) please please please let me get what I want( cutting the ribbon 24 mix)
10) let the heartaches begin
11) those were the Days
12) I'm still waiting
13) what's another year
14) imagine
15) under pressure
16) the only way is up
17) sacrifice ( the Carabao mix)
18) I got stung ( the mosh mix)
19) stop me if you think you've heard this one before
20) save your love ( Denise and Bill serenade mix)

Don Alexander
144 Posted 15/11/2022 at 02:11:18
All sorts of opinions on the current manager of OUR FOOTBALL CLUB, and I respect them all.

BUT....... to quote a certain Madeiran of the moment. I think our owner/board have long since given up the ghost in trying to make us a viable football club, if ever they even had such a notion.

No, for years now those in charge have spent all their energies in trying to market OUR club to any desperado outfit who seem to offer any vestige of financial benefit to assuage the massive financial damage done to us by those in charge throughout.

Richarlison was the one player with any actual value to enable us to even try to sign anyone at all, on account of self-inflicted boardroom shenanigans that brought us to the attention of FFP.

Everyone in world football knows we're in the shit courtesy of our top brass, for years. Most clubs, agents and players therefore bend us right over a barrel when they feign to negotiate with us - hence we sign has-beens and never-will-be's for absurd fees and wages.

And our troubles increase, season after belated season, obviously.

Still, let's now join in with our top brass and demand the sacking of the latest manager and his entire staff eh, yet again?

And let's not consider for a moment the ineptitude of those at the top who've personally inflicted all those woes on us fans, whilst making millionaires several times over of the very many of THEIR appointees who were quickly dispensed with by THEM.

Is it any wonder we're bolloxed no matter what they do next?

Sean Roe
145 Posted 16/11/2022 at 05:44:08
I don't buy all of this talk about having a bad squad of players. The starting eleven is now mainly made up of players that him and his staff have purchased, plus a few that have never been short of effort and are of Premier League standard – and one that is rejuvenated.
If these players aren't good enough, then the fault lies firmly at Lampard's door.

Why is it that a less-than-average Bournemouth team can look so joined-up as a unit and play us off the park, not once but twice?

In my opinion, it's because we have a manager that is way out of his depth.
Should he go? Yes, he should; other managers manage to get their teams to gel and play as a team.

Who should replace him? Absolutely no idea… So I guess he stays.

Danny O’Neill
146 Posted 16/11/2022 at 06:18:26
Brian @143, that's some playlist and sadly very appropriate for an Everton playlist. I was going to say CD, but I thought I'd go modern. Thank you for the early morning giggles!!

Don, well said. If we sack the manager, yet another one will be hung out to dry, thanked for his efforts, but the root cause will remain in place as they line up another unsuspecting lamb.

Sean, I don't actually doubt the quality of the supposed starting 11. I question and have questioned, pre-Lampard and for several years, the depth and quality of the squad. Scratch the surface and we are down to the bones.

And, with the preferred starting 11 being open to opinion and interpretation, I'd challenge that only 4 are Lampard signings. Coady, Tarkowski, Onana and Gueye.

Pickford, Patterson, Mykolenko, Iwobi, Gordon, Gray and Calvert-Lewin were already in place when he arrived.

Laurie Hartley
147 Posted 16/11/2022 at 06:53:57
Larry #142 - going by the title of the article, I thought Lyndon was looking for our opinions.

As in the article there were bound to be fors and againsts and different points of view.

We will see what happens.

Colin Glassar
148 Posted 16/11/2022 at 07:24:51
Madness, sheer and utter madness. This revolving door obsession will see us relegated for good, probably. We need to build not tear down and start anew every few months.

He wasn't my first pick. I still have major doubts about his tactical abilities, but we are rotten from the top down. Until this board clears off, we will continue on this downward spiral whoever the manager is.

Tony Abrahams
149 Posted 16/11/2022 at 08:10:04
I think if ToffeeWeb done their own strategic review, and asked who we wanted to get rid of the most, out of the manager or the board, then it would be interesting to see the percentages.

I'm sure loads would vote for both, but first things first, let's go through this with a fine-toothed comb, and do away with transparency!

Laurie Hartley
150 Posted 16/11/2022 at 08:37:51
Tony # 149 - I was offered the choice it would be the board. I still haven’t figured out why the owner hasn’t pulled the plug on them. He must have a reason.
Peter Neilson
151 Posted 16/11/2022 at 08:38:08
Hoping that in January we've money to spend and there's attacking talent to buy. (Although, if there is, why didn't we do this in the summer?) If not, then whoever is manager will struggle with this squad.

I don't understand why, with his experience, Frank can't sort out a decent midfield and his tactical nous and use of subs are both questionable but I'd stick with him.

I'd also add “Rip it up and start again” and “Should I stay or should I go” to the above playlist.

Sean Roe
152 Posted 16/11/2022 at 08:38:36

There isn't much outside of the first eleven I agree, but that eleven that started against Bournemouth should never be played off the park by what is respectfully a Championship side.

For me, we have only looked like a team once since Lampard arrived and that was against Palace this season, and not just because we won the game. We actually looked joined-up from back to front, so it can be done with these players.

I wasn't, and am still not expecting miracles from this team, but we have no style of play at all. It shouldn't be difficult, even with the lack of attacking players, to move the ball up the pitch and crack off a few shots at goal every now and then. We seem to constantly play in our own half, passing from side to side and then backwards.

Andrew Clare
154 Posted 16/11/2022 at 08:51:26
Under normal circumstances Lampard would be sacked now. The team performances, the tactics, the substitutions and the new signings under him( bar one or two) have been underwhelming.

As we have had so many managers in a short space of time he won't be sacked now but he will be sacked in January after we have played a few more games and the board realise things are not going to get better.

To me there are no signs at all of any improvement, in fact we are looking more and more disjointed every time we play.

Danny O’Neill
155 Posted 16/11/2022 at 08:56:10
It's a valid point Sean. The sideways and backwards passing is frustrating. The use of the word frustrating is me being diplomatic. Having come home twice from Bournemouth with my tail between my legs last week, I'm starting to calm a bit and get reflective.

But watching them at the last 4 matches, you can see the frustration in the players. When they look up, they have very limited or no options to go forward. There is the key problem that we all know. Forward options. Even the much improved Iwobi is having to revert to wonder what to do with the ball when he looks up. At least he's trying, but he needs options in front of him. Otherwise, the instinct is to retain possession, which forces them backwards and sideways and invites the press.

Even young Nathan Patterson, 21 years old, been at the club 5 minutes. Came from a lesser standard league. Charged with replacing a fans favourite and the club captain. He is looking up and shouting at players in despair. Good on you lad. Keep doing it. Character. That's what we've lacked for way too long.

Even if McNeil, aged 22, starts or comes on. He has a great cross in his arsenal, but who's it going to? Against Bournemouth's land of the giants, it was pointless. Literally as it turned out.

I think we're all saying similar things with a different slant on it. Decent starting 11, subject to opinions on who that 11 should be, but a very thin squad in terms of depth.

That has plagued the last several managers who have been made scapegoats for the lack of investment.

Let's get the World Cup out of the way Sean, regroup and celebrate on Boxing Day!!

Eddie Dunn
156 Posted 16/11/2022 at 09:34:13
Danny your optimism is a ray of hope in this football wastland that is Evertonia.
I hope you are right and Frank brings his lads home rejuvenated and beat Wolves on Boxing Day to reignite our season.

Obviously me being less of an optimist (I did back Frank's appointment) I somehow doubt that we will bring anyone of note in in January and I think the cash-strapped club are pinning all of their hopes on DCL returning to score us our goals.

I will be watching (on replay) the highlights from Down Under with added interest.

Perhaps the World Cup break will do us all good and act as a pressure valve on Frank (who looks ready to burst).

I think in normal circumstances, this jolly to Australia would be just that. But now these games take on new significance and heavy defeats in both could force Moshiri to act.

Now we will see what the players are made of.

Brian Harrison
157 Posted 16/11/2022 at 10:02:09
Having read many of the posts it seems clear that even those suggesting we dig in and stick with Frank, have massive question marks about Franks ability to turn things around. I have very rarely seen a manager change his preferred style of football, even though his present style is quite clearly not working.
Even Danny O,Neil the most optimistic of fans says that the back and square passing drives him mad like it does the rest of us. Remember Martinez with his obsession with passing round at the back, and despite the fans showing their displeasure he wouldn't change and ultimately was sacked.
So I don't expect Frank to change his style and he has been allowed to bring in 8 players to help him implement his style and its no more enjoyable to watch than it was last season. Quite simply we have a manager who wants to play a certain way but hasn't the players to be effective in that style.
Week after week we see teams trying to play out from the back get into trouble and concede a goal and do they change no they carry on playing the same way.
So for those who say changing the manager every 18 months and expecting a different outcome is madness which I agree with. Then so is playing the same way every week and failing to have even 1 shot on target in some games.
Dave Abrahams
159 Posted 16/11/2022 at 10:58:58
Brian (157),

I think it is true to say that even those who want Frank to stay are not giving many reasons, if any, why they want him to remain as manager. They are merely hoping that he gets it right, the same as the fans who think he should be relieved of the job now. I'm one of the latter ,even though I haven't got a name in mind for who to replace him with.

I just don't think Frank is giving us any confidence that his present plans can work and he doesn't seem likely to change those plans, which are definitely not working.

Danny O’Neill
160 Posted 16/11/2022 at 11:49:36
I think that's what worries me more Dave Abrahams. Who comes in? Will it change anything?

It's all opinions, but I think we're targeting change in the wrong place. It will leave those responsible in place to carry on in a Putin style "nothing to see here" manner. Smile at the masses and ignore the obvious.

Apologies. I thought I'd calmed down.

Brian, if you don't have the players to play like Manchester City, they don't try to be Manchester City.

God, I've just depressed myself even more. Imagine me saying that around 20 years ago after they had just clawed themselves out of the 3rd tier of English football at the very last minute.

Brian Harrison
161 Posted 16/11/2022 at 12:02:59
Dave 159

I am like you, I am leaning to replacing Frank, but have little or no idea who I would think should replace him. In an ideal world, I would say Pochettino but we have zero chance of attracting that calibre, so we are looking at an untried coach from Europe or further afield or the likes of Dyce or similar which doesn't inspire me at all.

I suppose given my indecision on who to replace Frank most would say there is no point in replacing someone unless you have a ready made replacement. My only answer to that is I think if we stay with Frank I think there is a good chance we will get relegated and all the massive problems that will bring.

Financially through the cost of the new stadium and the FFP rules, money is tight, and I hear fans saying stick with Frank and he can bring 2 attackers in to help transform us.

But he was allowed to bring 8 players in and the only forward he signed was Maupay, then played him as a lone striker a role he is completely unfit to play. So, because we have even less money to spend than we did in the summer, which strikers are we able to attract?

Brian Murray
162 Posted 16/11/2022 at 12:08:32
Moshiri, on the face of it, seems to have burnt his bridges looking for a glam name and Dyche fits the bill for a safe pair of hands. No way would he struggle and yes he has it all to prove he can step up.

Depressingly same as Allardyce who just could not. We have to remain in the top flight at least until the stadium is built and up and running. After that is anyone's guess.

Brian Wilkinson
163 Posted 16/11/2022 at 12:09:10
This is the one thing I cannot get my head around.

The amount of stick Rafa Benitez got, yet Frank Lampard has had unbelievable backing. Okay, before everyone shoots me down about the results towards the last couple of months of his stint and all kinds of backlash, let's take a close look at it.

The only money Rafa spent was £2.3 Million for Gray, he had to bring in Rondon on a free and also Townsend on a free, he got a decent transfer fee for Digne, but was sacked before he could spend any of the money, in the January window.

He actually started off well and results were pretty good early doors, then he lost Calvert-Lewin, then Doucoure, then Allan, along with Coleman, followed by Richarlison missing games through suspension, even before the fall out he lost Digne through injury, Godfrey, Mina, so certainly did not have much luck on the injury front.

The results towards the end were shocking but even so got a very good win at home to Arsenal before he was relieved of his duties.

When he left Everton were 15th and 6 points clear of the drop; after Frank's so-called miracle work, we finished one place lower than when Rafa left, and just 4 points clear of the drop.

Now I am not chomping the bit at Rafa, far from it, but was his performances so much worse than that of Frank's, who by the way has brought in around 9 players, compared to Rafa's only 3 incoming?

Rafa got a hell of a lot of stick, yes, wrong appointment, but if we all take off the anti-Benitez glasses, I think one got unbelievable backing, while the other got dog's abuse.

Do I want Rafa back, certainly not, do I want Frank gone? From a strong No, I am 50/50 now but feel, for now, we need to give him the backing in the January window and see if he can turn it around in the attacking department.

I do not expect one single poster to agree with me on the above, but that's my balanced view on both managers.

Chris Leyland
164 Posted 16/11/2022 at 12:27:29
I like Lampard and I do think that he ‘get’s us’. He has emersed himself in the culture and says all the right things but the sad reality is thet he doesn’t then do all the right things where it matters which is on the pitch and in getting results. Yes, he took over from the disaster that was Benitez and yes, we have been unstable for years but he has failed to improve us in any discernible way results wise.

Lampard is running on borrowed time. The sad fact is that the inept board will have to make a decision on him sooner or later and the later it happens, the less likely our chances of survival are going to be.

We are in real danger of getting relegated this year unless there is a dramatic upturn in results outcomes. He seems to have one way of setting up the team but it is clearly not working and he doesn’t appear to have the tactical flexibility to change things.

He can’t play KITAP Moyes style as we concede almost every game and he can’t play attacking football as he simply doesn’t have the personnel to do so. As such, his current plan is the very definition of madness: keep repeating the same thing in the hope that something changes when the reality is that it won’t.

Would a more pragmatic, experienced manager get better results? Well, Carlo certainly did. Yes, the football was deathly boring but he got us to the last game of the season with a chance of qualifying for Europe as opposed to getting to the last game of the season hoping they we can still stay up, which is where we are currently heading

Nick Burgess
165 Posted 16/11/2022 at 12:32:05
Brian...You are asking for trouble to get answers for Everton FC failure in securing right managers for 6/7 attempts...The thick ice in Everton club is not due to one cold day Just like we expect any of the past managers to suddenly steer the club towards glory

Face it, fellow Evertonians we have been in 'win now' mode for long long time...Now we expect Frank 'Survive now' mode to give you consistent results...I'm having a good laugh. Majority of our past managers tenure were short...whereas lots of successful managers in the league spent at least many seasons with the club...

I agreed our results being demoralizing but are we realistic to expect no bumpy road ahead..with these mediocre to average players...few injuries we were derailed furthermore, strikers never being replaced properly...whose fault is that? Go figure

Tony Abrahams
166 Posted 16/11/2022 at 12:39:30
What I couldn’t get my head around was who signed the players in January, Brian, considering Brands had already gone, and they were definitely/allegedly not down to Benitez.

Lampard reminds me of Kendall, before he came good. I remember Howard signing his magnificent seven, (I’m sure Southall was in this group?) and Lampard has done the same this summer. Both great midfield players, but neither of them could/can, really sort out an area of the pitch, that they should have known better than anywhere else on the park?

Kendall was lucky because both Colin Harvey, and Peter Reid were already at the club, and without either of those two I’m not sure he would have turned it around? Lampard who it doesn’t appear has got this advantage, has also recently moved away from what he promised us.

He said he was going to make us more robust, but lately we have gone soft, and this is very concerning, especially because it’s not to hard to see what our main problems are, imo.

Kim Vivian
167 Posted 16/11/2022 at 13:07:26
I'm with sticking - obviously in the hope that Lampard can stop the rot, but more that the constant merry go round of managers clearly isn't the solution and is just a metaphor for the constant failings of the board.

I don't think Frank has worsened the situation he inherited and actually has shown clear signs of promise. He's improved the leaky defense (on the whole) has delivered some, but not many, much better performances and as many have said done this off the back of one constrained transfer window.

Granted, not all his signings have lit the place up (but that's pretty par for the course with most clubs), but they have improved the squad overall somewhat and may need more time - look at Iwobi for an example.

January will be a telling window. If he is able to further strengthen the squad particularly up front and show some tactical flexibility I think the second half of the season will be a much more comfortable watch. Again it comes largely down to the competence of the hierarchy, about whom I share the view of the majority (on here).

He certainly seems to 'get' Everton and to have won over the majority of supporters. If he is unable to get the support he needs and make inroads in January. I think there is a fair chance he might walk - and that would be a shame.

Brian Wilkinson
168 Posted 16/11/2022 at 13:16:49
Tony, this is what Benitez said while still at Everton.

Rafa Benitez has explained new signings Vitaliy Mykolenko and Nathan Patterson fit perfectly into the style he wants to instil at Everton.

The Blues kicked off their January transfer window on January 1st by announcing the arrival of Ukraine international Mykolenko from Dynamo Kyiv, followed by Nathan Patterson.

That is the style I want to instil here. Bringing in two young players with energy to go forward and attack, I think it's the key for the future of the club.

"Hopefully they will give us fresh legs that will improve the competition at the moment, but I'm also thinking about the future. I like to see Everton growing and improving.

Now I must be honest, I had no idea these two players were down to Raffa.

Brendan McLaughlin
169 Posted 16/11/2022 at 13:17:07
Yellow card Tony #166

Kendall brought Peter Reid to Everton.

Sean Roe
170 Posted 16/11/2022 at 13:22:15
Brian @ 163

Good post, can't argue with any of it.

Tony Everan
171 Posted 16/11/2022 at 13:38:02
Tony 166

Apart from the obvious problems up front, I think Onana is part of the current problem. Don’t get me wrong the lad is going to be a good player, but his introduction to the premier league has been too much too soon. He needs more support, the same goes for Gana on his reintroduction, he’s been caught cold .

I think that Frank should have changed the midfield set up much sooner to compensate, to a diamond. Garner and Onana either side of Gana with Iwobi further forward. Then drop a wide man give Patterson more license, and then play two up front with Iwobi supporting, along with Garner and Onana attacking the box too. I don’t think Frank’s selections have been playing to our strengths with what we’ve got or what we are producing.

Tony McNulty
172 Posted 16/11/2022 at 13:40:45
I'm with sticking, but if he doesn't get some decent results in the next three games he will be gone.

No matter how many speeches from the players or manager, no owner can afford to sit by and watch his team relegated.

Pete Clarke
173 Posted 16/11/2022 at 14:09:55
It’s just outright madness for us to allow Kenwright to remain at this club.
We all know quite well that Frank Lampard is not doing too well right now. His inexperience is showing and we don’t want to run the risk of going down whilst he learns his trade. If we stick we may well go down but if we change then well - we may still go down.
We pulled the pin on Martinez and Silva for similar reasons because we expect to be up with the big clubs challenging for trophies and entertaining and so we should. Most clubs should have this ambition.
The Difference with us and most clubs is that we WERE one of the giants of football so our expectations are very high BUT we have not yet accepted that we are becoming like Blackpool, Huddersfield and other giants of yesteryear who have fallen from grace. We are clinging to that yesteryear by a single thread right now.
Kenwright has fucked us over with his lying and treachery to hold on to Everton Football Club. He even admitted that he had no idea how to run a football club and yet lo and behold he’s still practically running it today despite all the years of dereliction.
He somehow held on long enough and finally found somebody who had hundreds of millions of spare dodgy cash to throw at us but the big part of that deal was that he stayed in charge. ( how’s that even possible )
Hundreds of millions was indeed thrown at us and wasted because the man left in charge DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO RUN a football club.
So who is the biggest fool here ? BK, Moshiri or us supporters ??
My thoughts are very emotional with Everton but here we are on the brink of losing another young, intelligent and potentially good manager but we put very little effort into getting rid of an absolute guaranteed irresponsible double crossing failure of a chairman who has overseen the worst period in our clubs history.
The only potential BK has is that he can potentially finish off this aging giant.
Stick with Frank and bring Gordon Ramsay in to help.

Brian Harrison
174 Posted 16/11/2022 at 14:18:49
Tony 166

As Brendan in post 169 said Peter Reid was signed by Howard. I have met Peter on a few occasions and he told me that he failed the medical and Howard said we sign him and if it goes wrong its on me. But Tony you are correct that appointing Colin Harvey to first team coach was a major factor in Everton having the success it did.

Just going back to Peter Reid, for some strange reason having gone out on a limb to sign Peter he had been left out the team for a while and not through injury. Ian St John used to do a ring in show on Radio City right after the games finished. He gets a call after 1 game were we had lost or drawn at home I cant even remember who we played, and listening to the radio on the way home this caller goes on about how we should be playing peter Reid and the caller went to great lengths to extoll Peters ability, in the end St John says you seem to know a lot about peter Reid he said I should do I am his brother Sean. Now not suggesting that call influenced Howard but a week later Peter is back in the team and the rest is history.

John Keating
175 Posted 16/11/2022 at 14:40:03
A bit of perspective maybe?
Remember Howard came in 1981?

83-84 season we won 6 out of the first 21 games and attendances were horrendous, games absolutely forgettable. Booed off, cushions thrown and calls for him to be shown the door

Then we had the famous “we’ll support the manager”

The rest is history

I appreciate it is different days and with social media etc things become more immediate and impatient but if we do bin Lampard are we assured of improving things?
We’ve tried so many managers and nothing has changed
The only constant is the Board - maybe that’s the real issue?

Tony Abrahams
176 Posted 16/11/2022 at 15:02:33
I argued with referees all my footballing life, Brendan, and I'm arguing with you now mate, for trying to give me a yellow card!

I knew Reid was brought to Everton by Howard Kendall. I've heard Reid tell the story of how he turned up half-bevied during one of his first training sessions and then, when Howard found out he liked a drink, he realised he might have just found his perfect club! (I'm sure this story is close to the truth, Brendan!)

Kendall wasn't using Reid, for some very unknown reason. I remember a Dderby match at Anfield, Everton lost 3-0, (anyone remember the free Dennis Kelly, campaign?) and the Kop were unmercifully singing there was a taxi waiting for Kendall.

I remember a man rang Radio City after the game, saying how he couldn't understand why Kendall was not using him, and was rumbled by whoever was taking the calls, asking him if he was Reid's brother.

He was, but he was 100% correct though, because Peter Reid was simply a brilliant footballer, and definitely helped Kendall keep his job whilst helping make Everton great again.

Hopefully you can show a little bit of leniency, after that trip down memory lane, Brendan? Please!

Brendan McLaughlin
177 Posted 16/11/2022 at 15:12:54
Ha ha Tony #176 & Brian #174

Great memories.

OK Tony I'm not made of stone I'll have VAR take a look at that yellow!

Brian Murray
178 Posted 16/11/2022 at 15:26:47

Do you recall going to Bolton in the snow and it getting postponed at half-time? Our goalie George Wood rushed out and somehow nutted Peter Reid in the knee, breaking his leg in his Bolton days.

Oh yes, we lost the rearranged game making ex Man Utd veteran Tony Dunne look like Roberto Carlos. Probably around 1979.

Clive Rogers
179 Posted 16/11/2022 at 15:31:45
If I remember correctly, Reid had turned Arsenal down some months before he signed for Everton as he wasn't happy with the terms.

I remember someone at Arsenal saying “I never thought I'd live to see a Bolton player turning down a move to Arsenal”. Shortly after that, I think Reid broke his leg playing for Bolton in the 2nd Division which was followed by a succession of other injuries when he came back. Hence the fee was much reduced when he signed for us.

He hadn't been playing much for Bolton and wasn't match fit when he came to Goodison and it took him some time to get fully fit, making only 7 appearances after moving mid 82-83 season. The rest is history.

Pete Clarke
180 Posted 16/11/2022 at 15:45:57
Peter Reid was on the bench for a League Cup game against Coventry around November 83.

We were standing right behind the dug out in acres of space and ended up screaming at Kendall to make some changes because the game was dire and we were getting beaten 1 nil.

There were just over 9,000 there and it was freezing cold. At one point, a copper came over to us and told us to cut it out because we were having a go at Kendall. We had a go back at him of course because we were not getting our money's worth and we weren't being offensive.

Peter Reid came on very late in that game and was chasing dead balls everywhere and basically rescued that game for us. He was a man on a mission and for me the main reason our fortunes changed.

We could do with a proper old school footballer in our team right now. I know it's faster and Reidy's legs could not have kept up with today's pace but he had a lot more to him than fighting spirit. A true legend.

A certain ex-Everton manager played against us that day if I remember correctly.

Tony Abrahams
181 Posted 16/11/2022 at 16:13:14
I hadn't read your post Brian H, before replying to Brendan, so that made me smile mate.

I never went to Bolton, Brian, and never ever did go to the old Burnden Park, but I heard quite a lot about that game from different people who got snowed in, with a few people talking about abandoning their cars because the weather got that bad.

Tony E, I think it's obvious our midfield players don't complement each other, and because of the lack of productivity out of Gordon and Gray, I'd have been playing the David Moyes 4-5-1 for a while now, mate.

David West
182 Posted 16/11/2022 at 17:14:19
Who's going to come? Who wants to manage us?
We saw the short-list last time! The list will be even shorter if Frank's gone less than 12 months into the job!

3 to 4 games will tell us where the season will pan out. Hopefully with a striker and forward options in January. Never get anywhere with a new manger every 12 months.

Christine Foster
183 Posted 16/11/2022 at 17:17:48
Previous to Lyndons article, I wrote a post on another thread that appears to have been lost or removed, relating to the question of wrong players or wrong tactics. I questioned whether any manager could make a difference with the squad we have. That realistically only about 7 players in that squad are fit for purpose.

Are we expecting a new man to come in and suddenly these carthourses will become world beaters? The merry go round of managers has to stop and a squad has to be built. It's going to take longer with little money but the problem is simple, the train isn't stopping and we aren't laying track quick enough. Buying time with Lampard as he rebuilds a pathetic squad is not only painful but necessary. We all know it needs to be done, but we all know it isn't going to be good when injuries hit key players.

It's been said before but the clearout is only half done because we are already so thin on the ground due to the appalling mismanagement of recruitment and the resultant restrictions of FFP.

Unlike some, I cannot see how we can expect consistent and sustained improvement with the current squad under any new manager. Bringing in new managers has not worked. Why should it suddenly do so? Was every manager rubbish?

Stick or twist?

Has to be stick for me until this basket case of mismanagement and board are replaced by professionals with a STRATEGIC VISION and an action plan to get us there, not a bullshit strategic review that was non existent window dressing. Until we change at the top the injuns will xstill be chasing themselves around the wagon train.

Stephen Davies
184 Posted 16/11/2022 at 17:23:16
Hmmmm. Interesting comments from Tim Cahill
Dale Self
185 Posted 16/11/2022 at 17:50:13
Thanks Stephen. Not sure I can read beyond what is said but he seemed a bit intense. Maybe it is a double as he is on the board and up against it at Eupen as well.
Dave Abrahams
186 Posted 16/11/2022 at 17:55:11
Pete (180),you are spot on about Kendall and that Coventry game,the night the “ Kendall out leaflets were given out before the game, we were going out of that cup until Reid was very belated brought on to the field to cajole the rest of the squad to have a go.

Kendal certainly brought Peter to the club but never played him, Howard had drove masses of Everton fans away from the club with the performances and results and this was his third season,he had wasted a vast amount of money on seven players and only the two goalies were a success,not sure if jJohn Bailey was one of the seven,he wasn’t too bad.

The day after that Coventry game Colin Harvey was promoted to chief coach and that’s when the team started to look like a team, Howard was lucky Phillip Carter kept him on most probably because Carter didn’t have a clue about football so it was just pot luck Kendall was retained, lucky for us as it turned out.

The fans slowly started coming back, some never did we were that dire, and we had four good years from then on and happy days which are good to look back on.

Unfortunately Howard came back for another two unproductive attempts to get us going again, the least said about that third effort the better, those four great years Howard gave us got his name on one of the stands and remind us of those happy seasons of long,long ago and the misery we have had to endure since has put fuckin’ years on quite a few of us and look to continue in that vein for God knows when.

Danny O’Neill
187 Posted 16/11/2022 at 18:06:14
History will always point to Adrian Heath saving Kendall's bacon.

But if you watch closely, it is Reid's tenacity and pressure that forces the mistake and misplaced backless that led to the chance for Heath to latch onto.

Sean Kelly
189 Posted 16/11/2022 at 18:37:50
Is he gone yet? I hope the board redeems itself and doesn't appoint any more duds either managerial or playing staff. But I won't hold my breath.
Jeff Armstrong
190 Posted 16/11/2022 at 18:47:21
Dave 186,

Alan Ainscow, Jim Arnold, Mick Ferguson, Mickey Thomas, Alan Biley, Neville Southall, and Mick Walsh, made up the 7, I think Lee signed John Bailey from Blackburn while Kendall was there.

Tony Abrahams
191 Posted 16/11/2022 at 18:52:50
Brilliant Jeff, you’ve just brought back loads of memories of Howard Kendall’s magnificent seven!
Jeff Armstrong
192 Posted 16/11/2022 at 19:30:44
Tony, most of them didn't last long, especially Thomas, refused to play for some reason, I think, and Kendall binned him off within weeks of his signing, Arnold played about 60 games and big Neville a few more. 😉

Mick Walsh was a Tarkowski type but no luck with injuries, Biley thought he was Rod Stewart and played like him, Ferguson scored a few in his limited time and I remember seeing him score in a midweek league cup tie at his old club Coventry we got chased back to our coaches by a load of Coventry wools with silkies tied to each wrist.

Ahhh the early eighties, erm… good times.

Dave Abrahams
193 Posted 16/11/2022 at 20:10:10
Jeff (190).Thanks for bringing those seven players back to life,I wish someone would have revived them when they were with us,not including Jim and Nev the goalies.

Mike Ferguson had a good record before he came to Everton, I thought he scored in that Derby game at Anfield, thought the score was 3-1 to them, think he had a few injuries and didn’t see to run right, Mickey Thomas refused to play in a reserve game,sad he wasn’t fit so Kendall tore his contract up, not long after Howard forced the Blackburn Rovers centre half, on loan,to play in a Derby game when he wasn’t fit and the lad had told him he wasn’t fit but Howard said he’d be okay.

The Magnificent Seven, a great film, five of Kendall’s seven were not so great!!

Brian Murray
194 Posted 16/11/2022 at 20:14:37
Dave a, Yes the original Ferguson I suppose did score in that defeat. Was mike Walsh the blond centre half one of the seven. Not the worst I’ve seen. A Ainscow from brum hopeless. Arnold the goalie. Another new false dawn. She always turns up at el four that woman
Ray Jacques
195 Posted 16/11/2022 at 20:34:01
They sold his best player and didn't give him the money to spend. Results are poor, sack the manager with no plan to replace him. Repeat the cycle every 12 months.
EFC are like a fucked up washing machine.
Dave Abrahams
196 Posted 16/11/2022 at 20:37:42
Brian (194) yes Walsh was a big blond lad, he’d seen better days like a lot of players who joined Everton, and we’d all seen their better days against us!! Jim Arnold was a very good goalie with Blackburn and with us. Mickey Thomas had a decent career except with us and finished with Wrexham where he had a good spell, until he got caught with a load of hookey money but wasn’t very good at passing it on, not sure if passing was one of his strong points when he played to be honest!,
Robert Tressell
197 Posted 16/11/2022 at 21:07:02
Just looking at the odds for our next manager.

Only 3 names in genuine contention:

- Postecoglu

- Pochettino

- Rodgers

With Dyche at 16 to 1 along with Ferguson and Vitor Pereira.

The three favourites are genuinely better managers than Lampard (although he does have time to develop) although Postecoglu has only ever managed in very weak leagues.

Postecoglu would probably view us as a step up in his career. Pochettino and Rodgers not so much.

What is interesting with Postecoglu is that he was able to give Celtic a very exciting attacking threat on the cheap with the likes of pretty much unknown Furuhashi, Maeda, Ababa etc - and playing a sophisticated attacking style in the process.

He's a risk, definitely, with much higher potential upside than the appointment of Dyche.

Danny O’Neill
198 Posted 16/11/2022 at 21:44:58
I said on another thread that I'm trying to come out of a dark place after last weeks two trips to Bournemouth.

Dyche and mention of Ferguson does not help the recovery.

Rob Halligan
199 Posted 16/11/2022 at 21:53:39
Danny, wait until the name Allardyce pops up!
Nick Burgess
200 Posted 16/11/2022 at 22:25:29
Christine Foster 183

Thank you as you put in much better perspectives than I could.

Everton is no longer our 80/90 teams we got lots of below average players who had stayed on and cost a fortune while at many managers expense I'm afraid we are at the phase where Everton got to back to school and learn/play the basics...tough to beat, willing to fight for club honors & most importantly balance the squad...yeah..selling our best, losing our best young prospects with no direct replacement that's what Everton club has been doing for years.

Brendan McLaughlin
201 Posted 16/11/2022 at 23:25:06
Robert #197

It's reported that the Celtic manager was appointed on a rolling 1-year contract. If that is still the case, he might be an attractive proposition given that Celtic would only be entitled to limited financial compensation.

Ian Riley
202 Posted 16/11/2022 at 23:27:23
If Frank is to stay, he must find a way to get points. That's his job! Yes we need stability big time but to much is at stake with the new stadium. The board putting such an inexperienced manager in charge of a club in decline beggars belief. Last week worried me that the lack of response from the players on Saturday from the midweek result. What was said or changed made little impact.

If the slide continues into January, watch the accountants and owner become twitchy. These are very nervous times for our club. So much relies heavily on us remaining a premiership club.

Soren Moyer
203 Posted 17/11/2022 at 00:19:28
He needs to go now! Not after world cup, not in February, but now whilst we have time to prepare for the remaining games.
Kieran Kinsella
204 Posted 17/11/2022 at 00:37:49
Appointing the Celtic manager would complete our path of step by step following Villas mistakes after they hired Stevie G
Steve Brown
206 Posted 17/11/2022 at 09:45:31
Eddie @46, I didn't say that you supported Benitez's hiring.

I pointed that that blaming Lampard for nearly getting us relegated rather than Benitez was perverse. The final paragraph was meant for those who did back Benitez until the bitter end.

Tony Abrahams
207 Posted 17/11/2022 at 09:58:34
That will be people like me Steve, but this is because I personally believe that I’ve always been aware of the bigger picture, and what is most rotten, in the corridors of power inside Goodison, mate.
Tony Everan
208 Posted 17/11/2022 at 10:57:58
How the table should look based on xG

Looking at the xG stats to date, and they do not make good reading at all.

Whilst we know our goal threat is relegation standard, we proudly say our defence has been strengthened. Look at these xG stats and that is not the case, our expected goals against is second lowest in the league. I think this is partly down to our midfield not being set up well.

Also note the bottom club regarding xG. Bournemouth, who are struggling in the offensive department worse than us, clear bottom of the league. The worrying backdrop is that they've just scored seven against us in a week.

3 wins in 15 games and 14 points is not good enough, even the derided and dysfunctional Benitez has 18 points after 15 games.

So looking at all that, how can we have confidence that Frank is on top of this situation? Has he got the managerial acumen to turn this decline on all aspects of the team around?

It takes a leap of faith to think that he will, and I've desperately wanted him to succeed but I'm struggling to believe he can. Even so, if the board decide to keep him he gets my 100% support and I'll still hope he can come good.

Of the alternatives, the three clear favourites with the bookies Postecoglu is achievable but he's a bit of a wild card, Pochettino, it would be more of a shock than Ancelotti's arrival, so I can't see that happening. Rodgers, it ain't going to happen, forget it.

So from he three clear favourites it comes down to Lampard or Postecoglu ….what's the biggest gamble ?

David Midgley
209 Posted 17/11/2022 at 11:04:20
Some interesting comments from long-standing and knowledgeable supporters with hopefully answers to my questions.

Who is it that sourced McNeil and Maupay? Was it Thelwell or Lampard or someone else?

Everton's greatest priorities over the last couple of seasons amongst many have been midfield and the lack of goals up front. Not bringing at least two goal scorers in over the previous three seasons is negligence of the first order. Why didn't they fancy the lad from Blackburn? At least he would have been a presence in the box.

Why or who would think that Neil Maupay would provide a solution? I'm not talking about him as a person but as a footballer. He would never in a month of Sundays be a prolific goalscorer.

In the modern era, players have to be skilful, athletic and tall. Frank Lampard was and is a tall man. All of Chelsea's players are so why would Lampard, if it was him, buy a shorty? The ball boys are bigger than him and might even score more.

Obviously size doesn't matter if you have the skill:

Alan Ball 5'-7"
Bobby Collins 5'-3"
Lionel Messi 5'-7"
Alex Young 5'-8½"
Neil Maupay 5'-8"

They say size doesn't matter, but as you can see from the above, an inch makes a big difference!!

Frank was a good footballer and seems like a nice man. Will he make a good manager at Everton? Can he turn it round?
Does he and his coaching team have the ability? How long do you get?

Why do so many, who watch the game live or via t'internet, see that the players, formation, etc need changing during the game and yet he can't? He seems very poor with his game management and substitutions. It's like a ship sinking and the captain shouts "Into the boats" when the stern is sticking out of the water.

He brought the young lad on and he played really well. Is that the last we see of him or any of the youngsters? Does he have the ability to steady the team, find a winning formation and get the required results? I'm not very confident that he has.

"Changing the manager will make us a laughing stock" – does it matter? This is Everton in not quite freefall but being badly buffeted by the winds.

Some years ago, I advocated trying to get Nicola Cortese at the club. Check him out on the TalkSport website. An interesting read – it talks about Pochettino, a manager touted for us. The other guy being advocated is the Australian from Celtic. We'll get some idea of what he's like when they play Everton.

Everton Football Club is like Dutch Elm Disease; it just sucks the life from you till you wither away and, at the present time, my bark is falling off.

Geoff Lambert
210 Posted 17/11/2022 at 11:32:01
I think most of us on here could finish in the top two in the Glasgow Premiership. Next.
Dupont Koo
211 Posted 17/11/2022 at 12:28:58
Great piece and calm as usual, Lyndon.

I would preach patience with Frank:

1) Give Frank (and Thelwell) a chance to get rid of the remaining deadwoods who did themselves no favour in the Carabao Cup disgrace: Mina, Holgate, Keane, TD & even Doucoure. Along with Rondon's salary, that is, IMHO, £350K+ per week on the wage bill. Just imagine most, if not all, of that sum will be bid adieu in January and be re-invested to bring in more suitable players

2) It took Sir Alex Ferguson 5 years to win the Manc their first major trophy in 1991 and he nearly got sacked 2 years into his tenure

3) Frank might have given benefit of the doubts to his players too easily, but at least the Week of Horror at Bournemouth told him who have abused his trust and faith (DCL's injuries and lack of availability might even start testing Frank too)

4) It might be pleasing for some looking at Jesse Marsch turning Leeds into the Everton under Bobby Brown Shoes, I'd rather we stick to where we have been so far this season, which is mostly tough to beat and solid defensively

Geoff Lambert
212 Posted 17/11/2022 at 13:47:59
Dupont!! " I'd rather we stick to where we have been so far this season, which is mostly tough to beat and solid defensively" You been on the wacky backy Dupont? If we carry on like we have been we are going down with Captain Lampard at the helm.
Jim Wilson
213 Posted 17/11/2022 at 20:52:13
So if the board can find a safe pair of hands who is willing to manage us Lampard gets sacked. If they can't, Lampard stays.

So who has the safe pair of hands who will manage us?

Another ex-Liverpool manager might be the best choice but the Benitez experience has killed that one, surely?

Brendan McLaughlin
214 Posted 17/11/2022 at 21:06:37
Jim #213

I think it's a safe, cheap pair of hands that the Board require ie no compensation involved. Does your ex-red fufil that criteria?

Bobby Mallon
216 Posted 17/11/2022 at 21:31:23
Look, we are going to be relegated, no matter who manages us, because we cannot score goals.

Yes, we are harder to beat… but we are still losing.

Keep Frank and save cash.

Laurie Hartley
217 Posted 18/11/2022 at 02:41:58
Blimey Bobby - that is a sweeping statement.
Terry Farrell
218 Posted 18/11/2022 at 06:48:44
DIG IN! Frank is. We stay united.
Paul Burns
219 Posted 18/11/2022 at 12:06:33
As usual, people are trying to treat the symptoms instead of the cause.

The club is set up to fail from the top. No strategic playing plan, getting in players to fit the system, just a continued scattergun approach that fails every time and is never addressed.

Scouting is garbage, the players aren't fit, our best players are constantly sold and replaced by second-raters. Any dissent is glibly batted off or ignored while the club lurches from one embarrassment to the next. We're a joke in the media and a joke to young people in the city of Liverpool.

Only a complete change at the top will even remotely address the amateurish charade that passes for a football club at the country's top level. Everton should be held up as an example worldwide of how not to run a club.

Frank Lampard will be just the latest in a long list of sacrificial lambs taking the blame for the true villain of the piece. He must have been mad to take on the job.

Tony Everan
220 Posted 18/11/2022 at 14:07:33
Brendan? Never mind him being another ex RS, he’s got a 3ft portrait of himself dominating his own living room. That’s got to rule him out ?
Dave Lynch
221 Posted 18/11/2022 at 14:22:37
So we sack Lampard. What will it achieve? Some here are acting like other teams supporters and want success Now!

It took Klopp, Ferguson and Wenger – not to mention Arteta – a few seasons to build a worthy team and those clubs were in a lot healthier state than we are now.

Get real... we are where we are because of years of mismanagement, the good Lord himself would have trouble turning this club around.

Lampard knows the modern game, he will have his targets, we will see the improvement we all crave, just not overnight.

Robert Tressell
222 Posted 18/11/2022 at 15:47:46
Dave # 221, I am in no great hurry to sack Lampard but a few thoughts.

1. With Calvert-Lewin out, we look very likely to be in the mix for a relegation spot. That will be the case whoever manages us unless we get attacking reinforcements.

2. Wenger, Ferguson and Klopp all had excellent track records with other clubs, albeit in weaker leagues. Ferguson won a European trophy with Aberdeen! Lampard only has credentials as a player. The spells at Derby and Chelsea prove nothing really (except that he seemed to underperform the level of investment in those sides).

3. Arteta earned his stripes as Guardiola's number two but, you're right, has been given time by Arsenal. He must have been close to the sack. What made the difference? Millions spent on Tomiyasu, White, Ramsdale, Maghaeles, Zinchenko, Partey, Martinelli, Jesus etc.

I don't believe Lampard is a great manager - but I do credit him with greater squad unity (though that might now be straining). The only way he will succeed is with better attacking players. We have to invest.

Barry Hesketh
223 Posted 18/11/2022 at 16:17:44
I tend to agree with those that are willing to give Lampard a bit more time, as yet more upheaval, could do as much damage to Everon's fortunes as holding on to the current boss.

None of us really know how things will pan out, with or without Frank, but the fear factor within a portion of the fanbase is palpable and I don't think that automatically disappears, even if a new person is appointed as the manager.

Six weeks is a long time for the current boss, to reassess his options about the style that best suits his current charges, and he's intelligent enough to alter his plans to suit the players available to him.

It mustn't be forgotten that every game when he initially took over was a high pressure one and perhaps he has relaxed a bit too much this season.

What he will have learned this season, is that he can't put too much trust in his players and he'll have to be more proactive in assuring that the players are ready for the battles ahead, and he mustn't allow them to backslide as they've done in the last couple of games.

If the players realise that they have to pull their fingers out and are willing to do so, we should be capable of being in a more comfortable position early in the new year, but due to the paucity of goals within the squad, it will still remain a tough task, whomever is in charge.

One of the big doubts some may have about Lampard is that they can see that he is level-headed, but is he passionate enough to inspire his players often enough, we'll find out in dure course.

Dave Abrahams
225 Posted 18/11/2022 at 17:16:17
Dave (221),

Some good points there about the state the club is in but I don't think we are craving success at the moment. I think the fear of relegation at the moment is creating the debate of whether Frank should stay or go.

I am of the opinion that Frank hasn't shown he has the ability to get this admittedly poor squad into one that wlll give us enough fight to get the points that will keep us safe.

Going by a vote on another website, I am in a minority who thinks Frank should go with nearly four in favour of him staying to every one who thinks he should go, so Frank seems to have a lot of backing; hopefully he will prove them right.

Robert Tressell
226 Posted 18/11/2022 at 17:55:11
Dave # 225,

It's marginal isn't it? Lampard has not performed well. But the instability is killing us, the lack of genuine investment in the squad is killing us and the realistic options (Postecoglu or Dyche) are either very high risk or very uninspiring.

We're between a rock and a hard place.

Jim Wilson
227 Posted 18/11/2022 at 19:48:19
Robert @226 – all I am concerned about now is avoiding relegation.

If I knew Dyche would ensure this with a bit to spare, I would take it. If he plays 4-4-2 that, is a start and I am sure the players we have are good enough so long as 2 things are addressed:

1. Bringing in 2 decent forwards.
2. Playing 2 centre-midfield players together as a unit. At the moment, I would go with Gueye and Garner.

Dave Abrahams
228 Posted 18/11/2022 at 20:20:17
Robert (226),

Yes there are a few obstacles in Frank's way but he is not helping himself with some of the decisions he's making, shape of the team and the players he is using in these formations without trying to change either, with substitutes finally being used but solely changing one player for another but the shape of the team staying the same.

Yes, with better forwards and the centre-midfield players playing as a unit instead of being strangers to each other would certainly help and add some confidence to a squad that often looks unsure of what the plan is. Frank on the touch line looking as bewildered as the players doesn't inspire us fans to believe that he is the man to take Everton to better days...

Jerome Shields
229 Posted 19/11/2022 at 07:09:43
Brian #164,

I agree.

Laurie Hartley
230 Posted 19/11/2022 at 08:05:40
There won't be many 15-goals-a-season strikers available in January and definitely not two at, from what I can make out, prices we can afford or are allowed to pay.

The only time we have looked decent this season was the Palace game when Calvert-Lewin started. I believe that is because, if he is anything, he is a target man. I believe Maupay is capable of chipping in with a few goals but not playing as a lone striker.

The manager has got an option but he is too stubborn to admit it. That stubborn streak, if he continues with it, will bring him and more importantly us, undone.

4-4-2 or 4-3-2-1 is the only way to go with this squad.

Danny O’Neill
231 Posted 19/11/2022 at 08:18:01
Dave Abrahams @228, that's pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Lampard inherited a family that was disfunctional at best.

I'm not comparing him to Howard Kendall whatsoever, and I know that the game now doesn't afford time.

But he is certainly trying to work out his best formula. Knowing that we are light up front, a bit more assured at the back and still trying to figure out how to get that midfield functioning. That's where games are generally won or lost.

Mostly, if you control midfield, you control the game.

Robert Tressell
232 Posted 19/11/2022 at 08:25:31
Laurie, I agree that 4-4-2 is the best way to structure the side short-term, in order to get goals. It will, as you say, suit Maupay who cannot be a lone striker.

We don't necessarily need a star striker to make this work. Short term, there are lots of options across Europe.

Burnley found Weghorst last season, West Brom found Diagne the season before. Both teams went down, of course, but with much worse squads than we have now. The two strikers mentioned would do a good job for us as Calvert-Lewin understudies.

My concern is that this is all very short-term. Same again next season perhaps...

Robert Tressell
233 Posted 19/11/2022 at 08:40:55
On a positive-ish note, there are a few players in the top scorers charts around Europe who might be within our price range and – though not about to challenge Haaland for the golden boot – are good players:

- Onuachu of Genk
- Fullkrug of Bremen
- Petkovic of Zagreb
- Moffi of Lorient
- Nzola of Spezia

And consider, I suppose, that we might get Brereton Diaz or Broja.

The players are always out there.

Brian Murray
234 Posted 19/11/2022 at 09:09:32
Robert. The less people know about the players on your list the more chance we have if getting them. Once the north London teams or Newcastle get involved we end up panicking with a week to go. We need now yes now to identify and near as dammit have them nailed. Biggest transfer window ever for us whether it’s ideal time or not. As we speak with no additions we won’t make it.
Eddie Dunn
236 Posted 19/11/2022 at 09:26:05
I have watched the club's latest training video filmed in Sydney.
The lads look relaxed, they look happy and hopefully the jaunt will help to give the squad a boost.
The friendly games will reignite debate on what is needed.

Does Frank pick his most experienced line-up hoping to grind out respectable results, or will he dodge a potential bullet and play more of the kids?
It will be interesting.
Two sound victories will do wonders for morale and shut the likes of me up until Boxing Day.

Danny O’Neill
237 Posted 19/11/2022 at 09:26:08
I'm all for looking further than these shores. You get better value for money in my opinion.

A sad indictment of the grass roots of British football as we overcharge for the supposed next great coming.

I think I'm well documented on my views on 4-4-2. Outdated and would make me nervous about being overwhelmed in midfield. But, I'll revert to the fact we are anyway. I think we just need to get the midfield functioning as a unit to protect the defence and support the attack.

Simple game football isn't it?!!

Christopher Timmins
239 Posted 19/11/2022 at 10:15:45
While in the "stick with Frank" camp, the last game has me very worried. It was up there with any of the bad performances last season.

The break for the World Cup is a help and hopefully the manager can bring in what's needed in January. If still in the relegation zone come Matchday 24 then we may need to bring in a Dyche-like manager. Bobby Brown Shoes will be out of a job in late December and may well be a contender but he would not be my choice.

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