ToffeeHouse Chatroom — Matchweek 10

I do care deeply about the game of football. Too deeply sometimes.

Everton first and foremost, but the game of football is dear to me.

It's why, based on my experiences, I truly believe our footballing structure needs a massive overhaul from grass roots up. And our leagues need streamlining. We now effectively have 5 professional leagues. I don't think that is sustainable.

Random thought about grass roots, but you actually made me think, I remember playing for Speke Town on the pitches by Dunlop's. There was this brute of a player trying to leather me all match, but I managed to avoid him. He was a beast who just wanted to smash me.

He shook my hand at the end and told me I was lucky. I guess that was a compliment! My cousin's husband (great centre-forward by the way) told me I was the best player on the pitch.

Talk about education in football and life!!

Anyway, I digress, so back to my point. I would dearly love to see a restructure of our game. But it should always be a pyramid that rewards success. Not a closed shop.

I was looking at Southport FC fixture list the other day, and couldn't believe how much travelling was involved for a sixth division club, and this is where the revamp needs to start imo?

I've read that top clubs don't like passing money down because it's getting used for the wrong things, with the contradiction being, that with the money involved at that level, they could straighten out grass roots football, and produce absolutely incredible facilities with a 5-year plan, but no, they would sooner spend their money on their own academy, and trying to produce the next great player, for themselves.

This is all well and good, but it lacks so much innovation, and for every good player they produce, don't start me about how many good young players they destroy, and before many of them actually even learn what real football is all about.

I can't fall out of love with the game. I get dismayed when I take the dogs out at the weekend and watch the standard of so-called coaching and pitches. I'm often tempted to step in, but I hold off these days.

I could repeat myself until blue in the face. Reduce the amount of professional clubs. Get them to invest in grass roots. Ditch this modern academy system that destroys more players than it produces by forcing them out of a natural environment. Go into the community and support local football.

Everton in the Community is admirable. But as a football club, how about it starts with supporting local football teams? Go and help the volunteer coaches and the kids.

And by doing so, as well as giving back, we might just uncover an undiscovered gem or two that otherwise goes unnoticed.

Danny.

Maybe ban or keep the parents well away from the playing area and let the kids just play their natural game, no pressure.

All this having their own initials on their training gear and everything laid out for them in academies is all wrong. Too quote the Fast Show: "Jumpers for goalposts, ooo – grazed knee? Witchhazel!"

Marvellous!!

Definitely, Brian, I had to go to a FA hearing on at least 2 occasions to give evidence on that type of behaviour. I personally stepped in to stop a young female official about to be physically attacked by a parent.

I always remember being stood behind a bloke trying to goad me telling me that my lads didn't like a tackle. I didn't really understand his point. The boys on both teams were playing football. I gave him my opinion but refrained from retaliating to the reaction he wanted. Many examples.

I know I go on about it a lot, but Germany taught me a lot. Good facilities and parents present. But often a social club to allow people to mingle. If there wasn't a stand for the spectators, there was a physical barrier to keep the spectators (parents) away from the pitch. Let the coaches coach and let the kids play football.

Rather than have 30 or so aggressive pseudo coaches screeching from the side and encroaching on the field of play in an intimidating manner.

That's a pitch invasion, right?

Just watching the panel interview with Onana, McNeil and Maupay.

Non-footballing observations.

What a confident lad Onana is for a young man. The boy can and will be a star. Hopefully with a successful Everton team.

Maupay will give us honesty and desire regardless of what people think of his ability. What a humble guy. I think Evertonians will like and take to him.

McNeil needs confidence. I know not everyone can speak on stage or in the limelight, and it's difficult for these young players in the media spotlight, but his body language suggests he needs his confidence building. But he can do it.

Sorry, I'm no psychoanalyst, but it was interesting to watch.

I forgot to mention Tottenham.

Who the fuck are they?

Pound in the swear jar, John Senior.

Danny.

In the fickle world of football, Spurs are far more relevant than us despite the league title count from a bygone age. Kids, and especially the media, are not interested in the pre-Sky era. They are run far more professionally than us and promote their brand properly.

Hopefully the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock may change that but, until then, we are shy about even coming from the same city. The Liver Building is a case in point: it should be lit up permanently in blue and white. That's why them bastards targeted it in their title year, putting it on fire.

A club in L4, The People's Club with an amateur theatre production still running it.

My cousin sent me a beautiful picture of the Liverpool waterfront yesterday, Brian, celebrating getting the Eurovision award for the city.

Arguably the most impressive waterfront in the world. It looked majestic, but was lit up in red. I told her it needed to be Blue.

Get the torches and flares out. Turn the air blue. It's our city and very soon is going to be our waterfront.

Danny.

If Schalke can do it, then Everton can definitely do it, and this is where our club, needs to really start innovating imo.

Fowler, Owen, Gerard, McManaman and Carragher, or Jeffers, Ball, Rodwell and Rooney. This area is football mad, I swear I've watched some 7-year-olds over the last few years that are already mini-mes.

Incredible talented children are getting over coached, way too soon in their young lives, and I will offer you my list, and ask how many of those very talented footballers were in an academy before they reached senior school?

How can football clubs genuinely believe they are doing football a good service, when they are taking kids at age 6, 7, or 8?

Tony, I am convinced that the raw talent on our own doorstep has the potential to be exceptional. It will come in waves but done properly it should provide a steady stream of very high quality first teamers.

The only difference in our views is this: What you call over coached, I call badly coached (and badly treated).

More broadly, getting our academy right is very much part of the right fight (to return to Barry's excellent article). Firstly because it makes sense from a football perspective and secondly because it does matter to me that young kids from the city / North West can become excellent footballers with us.

An area with such football talent, Tony, that we don't develop properly enough.

I've mentioned this before but one of the things I love about going to watch Schalke is being able to watch the youth teams in the morning before the match on occassions. Open access to the training ground right next to the stadium. All playing in Royal Blue!!

Your point about over coaching is so true. I watched the U12s and U14s last time I was there. The coaches spoke to them before the match. A calm talk at half time and a debrief at the end. During the match, hardly a word. They just let them play. You'd really like it.

I see that the coronation of King Charles will be on Saturday 6 May 2023. We are due to play Brighton away that day, and the government are planning on making 6 May a bank holiday.

Does anyone know, or think that all football in the UK will be off on that day?

Rob,

What does footy usually do on a Coronation Day?

Do you remember whether the games were cancelled last time?

6 February 1952?

I'd probably get thrown out because I can't shut up, Danny.

I only use little phrases like "Well played" or "Watch the ball" although my most common phrase is "Work hard" because I believe football becomes so much more enjoyable once a kid learns to do this.

I know what you're saying, Robert, but who wants to be coached at age 8?

A Friday night game would probably go down well on a bank holiday weekend, Rob, especially in May, when the sun usually begins to shine again, maybe?

Mike,

I haven't got a clue, as I wasn't around then. This will be the first coronation in my lifetime. I've just checked and the 6 February 1952 was a Wednesday, so I doubt there were any games played that day anyway.

Mike, I haven't got a clue, as I wasn't around then. This will be the first coronation in my lifetime. I've just checked and the 6th February 1952 was a Wednesday, so I doubt there were any games played that day anyway.

If he denies me a day out on the seaside, Rob, then I'll forgive him as it will give us breathing space, rest and preparation time before Wembley.

Lads,

The last coronation was 2 June 1953. Close season.

That date given above was the day King George VI died. But Mike's a Yank and an ex-journo, so I guess he can be excused for getting it wrong.

In that case, Michael, there was definitely no football played in the UK on that day!

I see Man Utd are struggling to beat Ammonia FC… that's piss poor

Duncan, exactly why we were so fucking piss poor against them. Utd are garbage. This lot and Sociedad have been right up and at them and they can't cope.

Far far too much respect. I want us giving no-one any respect and playing our football and getting into them.

Klopp has managed to convince the whole world that Henderson is a world class footballer; he isn't of course, far from it, but it shows what you can do with a bit of spin.

Lampard needs to get the belief into this squad because, with a couple more additions, it's decent.

Agree, Nick, we were awful and tbh Gana was Man Utd's most creative player.

I see they've managed to snatch a late winner at home against the mighty plumbers and brickies of Cyprus.

Lucky bastards. Flicked on and they scored, Duncan

Ammonia FC looool :-)

Tony # 15,

My son is 8 so I can give some perspective. He enjoys being coached as long as it's fun – not unlike teaching kids any skill really (reading, maths, art etc).

I think coaching or teaching kids anything can start really young and help those with aptitude flourish – as long as the coaches and teachers don't lose sight of the fact they're dealing with kids.

Michael (20),

I knew the date the King died was in mid-week day because a young mate of mine was bringing the class registers round and when he got to our class he couldn't contain his excitement (is that the right word!!) and announced to the whole class “The King's dead, ye know!” He got the cane for speaking out of turn!!

I see someone has done a rankings exercise to assess the productivity of Academies in season 2021-22, back when Unsie was (mostly) in charge.

Training Ground Guru reckon that Everton rank 5th (behind Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City and Man Utd) in terms of producing players for the Premier League. I'm guessing that's mostly down to Tom Davies and Anthony Gordon.

If they broaden it out to include the Football League and the National League, Everton rank 6th overall. But if you break it down by division, Everton's Academy provided more players for League Two than anyone else! And by a significant margin! To me, that screams volumes about the true level of our Academy.

Interesting aside: remember Brentford ditched their academy? This says it was back in 2016. Apparently, the Premier League has introduced new rules requiring its club to operate an Academy at at least Category Three level from 2024-25 onwards.

As a result, Brentford have had to reopen their Academy (Category Four initially) that will play U18s, including this season's FA Youth Cup, but they will continue to run their B team.

That's a genuinely interesting read, Michael.

I've always instinctively thought that Merseyside and the Northwest produce a disproportionate amount of professional players for the game than most other areas. I suppose London and the North East could stake a claim.

I guess it depends on where you draw boundaries and we could all define them to meet a statistic. It's why I don't like stats. They can be easily stretched and manipulated to form any point of view. I don't think of football too scientifically. It's probably why I'm still that idiot in the stands rather than on the pitch.

Sadly, as much as we always like our own to succeed and live the Everton dream, few do, The majority of top-flight clubs only regularly produce one or two for the first team at any given period in time.

Few top flight clubs develop a successful team with a core born from the academy and from cradle to grave. Alex Ferguson's 90s team was a rare exception. And even they weren't all local lads, so the scouting system was and is important. Always has been. I hate to say it, but Liverpool didn't do too bad around the same period either with local players even though, frustratingly, most were Evertonians.

I would caveat that it is very difficult to judge at a young age and that it is always very judgemental. Like on here. Opinions. Easy to bemoan the one that got away.

The positive thing about the Everton Academy is that it produces a lot of players who go on to have a career in football. Yes, it should be about producing for the first team or generating revenue for the club. But as a coach, it's also about giving young people a career in the sport. We do well at that.

Just plucking one out of the air, I remember watching a young John Lundstram at Loftus Road in an U18s or U21s match years ago. We lost, but he stood out and you could see the ability. Didn't make it at Everton but went on to have a career by dropping down the leagues. Eventually played in the Premier League with Sheffield United and has now played in the Champions League and a European Final.

We've produced one or two regularly over the years, but I think where we've not been particularly good is getting the return of investment when we sell home-produced players. Maybe that's the standard we've produced. Maybe our negotiating ability? Combination of both no doubt.

Brentford made an interesting move in adopting the B Team approach and ditching their academy. I remember their teams training on the same facilities (if I can call them that) alongside my Hayes & Yeading team. Good coaches and good standard of player. I note they've readopted the academy as it's one of the pre-requisites for playing European football as well as what you and the article mentions.

Nothing wrong with ambition, so credit to them. Great club and currently have a very good manager. They've come a long way and are now looking at Europe.

They have so much competition for support and players when you consider the amount of teams in the capital. Another reason they decided to ditch the academy. They were paying (academies aren't free as much as people think) to develop players only to have them taken for buttons and a token fee at the age of 16 or 17 after all their years of investment.

I don't like our academy system, and that's not labelled at Everton. You all know me. Restructure the game and get it back to its roots.

Sorry, Michael!!

Given as you put it in the opening, the Konigsblauen (Royal Blues) were comprehensively beaten yesterday. Let's hope the blues do better today.

They will.

Sorry again, Michael!! Bit of a ramble there as I wait for kick -

Oooooh, chat time! Truss resigns [cue Benny Hill theme]

Brian Clough Mk II

I see Bingo has appealed his red card against man city. How can someone who apologises for his actions then appeal the decision to send him from the touchline? The man's a fucking idiot!

Dale, that kind of nonsense only matters while people continue to believe so. It could be you or me in the job for what difference it makes to where things are going. It's a puppet show.

You picked the right music though.