Everton torn apart by pure quality then abject stupidity

What odds on a Maupay red card?

Keane and Tarkowski played 21 times as a central pair together at Burnley

Today will be a backs to the wall type game. As a pure defender, tackling and heading, Keane is better than Coady. Tarkowski and Keane, very Burnley.

No surprises with the rest. Maupay continues, which suggests Dyche will likely stick with him for the foreseeable. Hopefully he can do a job.

Dyche

This'll be interesting

Flukey goals
Penalties for
Red cards against
Luck

Any sign of the fat parasite and his minions stinking out the EFC seats in the DB?

And we do get at least one flukey goal a season, including one here a couple of years back when Leno basically og'd it.

Mind you we've already had one of those this season with DeGea

Not sure what a Gana was thinking, play the whistle, ffks.

Self inflicted by Everton, can they learn from their mistakes?

Something far better needed from Sean Dyche.

7 mins of madness at the end of the 1st half...

But amaeuter defending and a mountain to climb, and sadly Everton have reverted to type.

But let’s see who has the stomach for the weekly battles now.

Forest is a must win, now, a point is not bad but Everton need the points, and to beat Brentford as well.

Hopefully Toney, will be banned for that game.

A bad night, in a tough week.

We're gone.

I didn't expect a win but wasn't expecting a white flag. Dyche won't be getting that bonus.

If we don't get anything at Forest I will be worried.

I guess that tells us why Dyche keeps playing the same team. It's the best we have. Godfrey was dismal. Everton were dismal.

Still, the Shite are doing us a favour. We have to find a way to win at Forest, which also means finding a way to score.

I'm a devout atheist, but I'll be lighting a candle on Sunday.

The quality of the squad is just horrendous.

No kidding. Points apart, if we lose they could go level with us on goal difference. Just a few weeks ago we were looking at their dismal goal difference as an indicator they could be for the drop.

From where I was sat I thought Saka pushed Gana. Was it not a foul or did Saka get a touch?

Off to drown my sorrows now. We simply have to win one of the next two fixtures.

Even though Var gave the 2nd I still can't believe it was onside.

Totally agree Michael, Godfrey looks less and less like a footballer the longer we have him. Worrying that Coleman looked like he limped off.

It was a free hit tonight but the manner of defeat will need Dyche to motivate the players for Sunday. A defeat and we are almost certainly down.

Players who cant pass to a team mate and move into space, maupay to his credit works his arse off, but he's fighting a lost cause 40 yards from the midfield alone. It's boring going over the same issues, yes we have no striking options but we need to adjust this midfield to offer more support to whoever is up front.
Iwobi is offering nothing on the wing.
Move him inside, lose one of the 3 headless chickens. I don't want to go in on onanna because he's still so young, but gana or dacoure could go.

Bring gray back. Or simms and maupay. Maupay can make things happen for someone else to capitalise on if they are within 30 ft of him or likewise he will be buzzing round someone else.
It's time to try or we gonna go down with 11 men behind the ball and still getting batterd let's go out with a fucking try at least

"We are playing with 10 men with Maupay he just isn't good enough."

I don't disagree with the sentence but the problem is we have 20 others in our squad who could easily replace him in that sentence.

Then of course as ever, we capitulate.

I hope both have played their last games. Felt sorry for the subs who were asked to go and retrieve a lost game against the runaway league leaders

I was going to comment...But I think I will leave that one there.

A TW classic

Hopefully we will never see the "young" subs play for Everton again.

Neil,

OK I was a tad dramatic

On to Sunday, with the obligatory renewed hope that we can score a goal or two. The manager will have to change it because at the moment we have nothing to offer up front and to stay up we will need to start scoring a few.

I think that's why they never reinvested the Gordon money and didn't back Dyche.

The team can't score goals, there's nobody in the entire squad that can score the required amount of goals to keep the club up and the defence is too fragile and the midfield to keep a sufficient amount of clean sheets to nick 0-0 draws.

There's no Richarlison this season and no Gordon, those two pretty much carried the fight in the second half of last season.

I think we are already done for this season.

Gomes and Gbamin too. A whole new midfield.

Remember the old days “go and win the second half.” Our players seem happy once we are losing as they feel they can take the rest of the night off,

I think we lose all of them to be honest, just can't see us laying a bead on any of them such is the lack of goals and lack of belief.

Really starting to hate football

I was very disappointed to see him wave those imaginary cards.

The game is going to fuck

His gameplan worked until the two mistakes; he should stick to it for the rest of the season.

Keane did okay, but I would prefer to see Mina as our only hope of goals Is corners and set pieces. Mykolenko, Gueye and Maupay have to drop out of the team, and I would replace them with Godfrey, Garner or Davies and Simms (he can learn by being dropped in as DCL did).

I truly believe we are one of the three worst teams in the league ( if not the worst ) and it will be a fucking miracle if last season repeats itself.
Looking at our next six fixtures, can anyone see us winning any one of them, I can't.

Last seasons warning not heeded, terrible signings to replace Richarlson, not sacking Lampard after the Bournemouth fiasco, mistake after mistake - board lying their balls off with headlock gate etc - couldn't get any signing over the line in January, is it any wonder - what a fucking mess we have become, we are in total freefall !
Right now this Evertonian is disillusioned, angry and in the "don't give a fuck anymore" corner - although I really do give a fuck !

Maupay is not a lone striker, he’s being set up to fail and that’s another worry, along with not starting our only dangerous footballer, Demarai Gray

This was managed decline. The club had given up in December. They weren't going to reinvest. They were desperately hoping they wouldn't have to sack Lampard but results and fan pressure got too much.

They decided that any money invested in this team was wasted. That's the only explanation for why everyone charged with player recruitment is still there. Some are responsible and all are complicit.

On a page of posts blaming players I'm not holding any of them responsible. I believe they've given a solid effort throughout the season and have simply been nowhere near good enough. That's not their fault. I'm sure the money helps soften the blow but they won't be enjoying the experience their employer is putting them through either.

I say throw the kitchen sink at teams. Play two up front. What is there to lose? We're no threat whatsoever and eventually that tells. Might as well go down swinging because we're certainly not staying up like this.

I feel sorry for every Evertonian, and particularly those poor people spending their time and money to travel to games.

The fans are the only ones who deserve better.

I think it suits what we have available and manages to get slightly more quality on the pitch (purely by removing Mykolenko).

But we're still trying to keep it tight and hope for a miracle.

Gray must play up front he's the only effective striker on the books. I don't care who plays up front with him, maybe it's time for Simms to shine?

A back four of Holgate Keane Mina and Godfrey was a success for a while. Maybe time to give it another try?

We knocked it around reasonably in the first half, but I'm struggling to come up with a winning midfield combination.

God help us. I've never felt so helpless and hopeless in 60 years of watching Everton.

Dyche does need to show some guile and guts. I think he will.

Poor Godfrey will have to look at photographs of the Arsenal team as all he seen was the back of their shirts. How can a team that play like a team for 40 min turn into a bunch of individuals playing like they have just met each other.

All joking aside this game really emphasized the huge job that Dyche has, and he did show in the first half that there is a possibility of improvements, will it keep them from relegation, only time will tell and I am afraid that time is not on our side.

Good night blues and God Speed to everyone of you.

We're like a boxer who doesn't throw punches. You can analyse the key moments that defeated them, but it was always going to come at some point.

What we're basically hoping for is a huge amount of good luck. We're desperately playing for an underserved win.

For 30 minutes we looked alright. But did anyone think that was going to hold when we offer so little threat? The loss was inevitable.

I thought we were well organised for the first thirty five minutes but once it became evident we carried so little threat up front, Arsenal pushed more men forward; notably Xhaka in an old fashioned inside left position and Zinchenko on the right. With Trossard wandering out to the left wing doubt entered the minds of our back four as to who should be picking up whom. I am not blaming individuals for the first goal. I think our players were just overwhelmed by numbers and quick passing.

The second goal was inexplicable. Gana seemed to stop dead as though he had heard a whistle. From that point we were sunk. We knew it. Arsenal knew it. They put on an exhibition performance in the second half. In the end the final 4-0 scoreline came as a relief.

It’s now all about Sunday when our team simply must deliver a performance at both ends of the pitch. To score in open play away from home Dyche must surely find a way of getting Gray into goal scoring positions. Otherwise he will be reliant entirely on set pieces. That makes life very difficult if in games like last night’s you can only win one corner.

Still, amusing to read that only one of us (#86 - guess who?) thought it necessary to do nowt more in one post than slag off a fellow Toffee whilst the rest of us concentrate on the real world.

'Twas ever thus though, and is utterly inappropriate from ANY sort of fellow Toffee.

I can't ever remember Everton being so bereft of everything, we have a defence that is prone to mistakes or collapses under pressure, a midfield that can't create chances and even when they do, we have absolutely nobody to finish them off. A recipe for relegation by anyone's standards.

Dyche may have had a better chance of creating a miracle if he had come to the club during the world cup, but even then, his task would have been difficult, now it seems unlikely if not impossible.

Due to the lack of leadership of the club, Everton aren't big enough to stay up.

There’s no doubt most people at the club (bar the fans, and the new coaches) deserve to be relegated. Top of the list is Bill, then Moshiri, then long serving Whittles nephew, Holgate, Keane, (who have been shit for years) Doucoure, Maupay, now the past it Gana so on and so forth. Not to mention the absent failures like Gomes and Dele. A bunch of complete losers. Weak minded, untalented, cowardly shit houses. The only two players I don’t think deserve it are Seamus and Pickford. Maybe Gray. If any other team were in our spot now I’d say they’re definitely finished. But inspite of the sack of shit players we have desecrating the shirt each week, despite the RS fan chairman and his gormless benefactor, it’s just so difficult for me to believe we can sink so low that somehow I still have optimism. As far as Dyche goes, I respect Tony Abraham’s and Colin Glassar and they have contrasting views on him. But whether he is good or bad, there’s only so much you can expect from this heap of turgid shit we call “our squad.” Logically, there’s no reason for hope. But I just can’t seem to accept what I’m seeing with my own eyes and somehow still have hope.

If we go down we are screwed. Onana and Pickford will be off. We can expect Captain Marvel Whittle's nephew to be our playmaker alongside the unwanted Gbamin. Seamus will do his best at right-back but, with the 50-year-old Lonergan in goal behind Holgate and Keane, there's little hope.

I'm not sure what you expect us to do to avert RS Bill's long-running plan to destroy us but, yes, if we go down there's every chance we christen BMD in League One.

They're so big that they'll either give us some hope, or will extinguish all hope. I don't think there is any other possibility from those fixtures.

Next 2 games are huge. If we you can't get points there, forget it.

21 goals conceded in my last four visits to watch Everton away at Arsenal. Gutted leaving that stadium yet again. When will my curse end?

And despite living in west London, it's not an easy stadium to get away from and get home if you're heading for the tube network in my experience. So, although not as lengthy as those travelling back to the homeland, a long trip home.

I won't dwell on the football, enough people on here will do that. We lost 4 - 0 to a superior team even though we had a solid start but just couldn't get to the half time line in tact.

Once the first goal went in, I knew that was it. The second was then the proverbial nail. Their keeper made two good saves that could have seen us back in the match, but in reality, the second half was almost like a training match for Arsenal. We did occasionally get into good positions, but our players seem afraid to take responsibility and shoot at goal.

Good to meet Mark at Blackfriars. I always like putting faces to names. See you again soon.

Great to stand next to John Raftery as always, thank you John.

Rob Halligan, thank you for the man hug. I was very upset at the end and needed that.

As I mentioned, the Emirates can be a difficult ground to get away from if you're heading to a tube station. I noticed a couple of Evertonians being verbally abused by some Arsenal supporters so decided to interject.

Now I don't have the strongest accent but the cheeky bastards told me to speak English. They were wearing half and half Everton-Arsenal scarves. What is that all about? I guess it was there first and maybe last trip to the Emirates. Tourists, which I pointed out.

Maybe I'm being raw and bitter, but that drum and adaption of the Kopite song. Are the Arsenal trying to being a combination of Crystal Palace and Liverpool?

I eventually found my way to a tube station and got home around midnight to sleep with the dogs.

That one is gone. The train to Nottingham is booked for Sunday. For no reason of our own doing, we are still in touch and have everything to play for.

Do not throw the towel in Everton, because I am not.

“That is not to say there have been no positive signs in Dyche’s opening month at the helm. Everton fully deserved their victory over Arsenal at Goodison. They battled to another three points against Leeds. At home they have so far found a blueprint that at least keeps them competitive in games.

Against Leeds and Villa, they pressed high and dictated most of the play on their terms. Passes per defensive action (PPDA) counts how many passes a team allows the opposition to make before attempting to win the ball back and is a proxy for pressing intensity. The lower the number the better. In the win over Leeds, Everton’s PPDA was 11. It was nine against Villa, versus a season average around 16. They are forcing chances through their work off the ball.

Everton made a season-high 44 passes into the box against Villa, 10 more than their next best this term. In that game, they regained the ball seven times in the final third, their second-best total of the season.”

All of which shows Dyche is organising the team better, but without a striker scoring goals leaves us in massive peril.

He has also learned that this squad of players will capitulate when things go against them.

I think it's because this group of players have shown they can beat Arsenal - only a matter of weeks ago! So why do we get performances like last night as soon as they are away from Goodison? We might as well not bother with away games at the moment - the players certainly don't, no matter who the manager is.

I don't believe it is a quality issue for most of them either - we have seen some great performances and decent wins from this group. But most only perform when they feel like it and when they are comfortable at home. Even then, they only turn up when they can be bothered or when they are in the mood.

We can talk all we want about managers, coaches, owners and chairmen but it is the players on the pitch who are letting us down most weeks. It is the players who are going over that white line and not putting in performances which we know they can if they feel like it. That is a big part of why we are where we are.

Of course, it is also true to say that recruitment has been poor and some of the players are not actually very good.

Doucoure for example runs about a lot - and that's about it. He lacks the basic skills any professional footballer needs at the top level. How he has made it so far in the game is beyond me.

Gana can tackle but is poor at almost everything else - as his mistakes all season (and last night) constantly show. He is also very slow - I have seen snails in my back garden get about faster than him.

Davies is nowhere near a top-level footballer as his misses in the last few games show - it doesn't matter how local he is or that some fans still see him as young, developing talent.

Same with the non-scoring striker Maupay who lacks the most essential skill required for his job. Or Mykolenko who tries but is Championship at best.

While Dyche made one change last night to freshen things up, he does seem to have fallen into the trap of all recent Everton managers. That is consistently picking people like Doucoure, Gana et al who perform badly most weeks. It's like it's included in their contract that they have to pick certain players.

Lack of options is not an excuse. We do have options to change things up if managers are prepared to take them. Holgate into midfield last night is a good example or Godfrey in at LB another.

I have also never seen a team so scared of trying young players than Everton right now. I cannot believe Mills or Price are worse than someone like Doucoure at passing, tackling or shooting. Give them a go ffs before it's too late.

Other teams give their best youngsters a chance, but we just bench ours or send them out on endless loans. While playing the same people who don't bother to turn up most weeks or don't have it in them at the top level.

If we are expecting people like Maupay or Iwobi to suddenly start scoring goals regularly when hard facts show they have never been regular scorers at this level their whole careers, we will be waiting a long time.

At least if we go down, all the rubbish who have been responsible for it will leave like rats deserting a sinking ship. Probably the only way we'll get shut of them. Then we can rebuild the squad with decent players who actually turn up every week - even when playing away from home.

I've spent the day contemplating the existential phenomenon that is supporting a football team.

I'm not from Liverpool or even the UK, so have no real connection geographically. The board are a bunch of criminals who have stood by and let this happen. The players are almost as bad as the board. So what am I actually supporting? A blue shirt that managed to nick 4th nearly 20 years ago with a negative goal-difference before being embarrassed out of Europe by an Eastern Bloc team full of plumbers and drillers (no offense to plumbers and drillers). You bet.

To see our only real attacking chance fail because the pass from Doucoure was shit, the follow up possession from McNeil worse, and the shot from Maupay non-existent really rammed home how bad this team is. Then at the end to see Davies totally miss-hit from 3 yards out turned it from tragedy to comedy.

Seeing players like Keane start was bad enough, but to then see Holgate, Davies and Godfrey come off the bench in a match we were losing made me almost vomit.

This is the sum-total of seven years under a billionaire owner - chasing a match with two awful centre-halves and a *insert Davies' best position if you know it* who by their ages should probably have been let go and enrolled in a tech college to become plasterers (no offense to plasterers).

And to repeat what plenty have already said, if we get relegated, it won't be a one-time event. This club (the board, coaches and players I mean) doesn't have the mettle to cope in the Championship.

It doesn't matter where you come from. You are an Evertonian.

I was born into it and never knew any different.

For better for worse as they say.

I'm not thinking Championship. I think and believe we've got enough in us to stay up.

I just wish they would stop doing this. I'm 51 now, 52 on 16th September this year. I share a Birthday with Neville Southall.

They are putting years on me. But I can't stop loving them.

The second point is that the team has lost the crowd. Surrounding me were apathetic people and some 70-80% had left before the final whistle. Crowd was mostly silent throughout, browbeaten - it knows where a team that can’t score is heading. I know we’d all bought tickets in September for this game when things looked very different. The players came over at the end to acknowledge the supporters but just about everyone had left. This team now seems isolated and exposed. Without the full throttle support of last year, it will slide quietly down a division. Too much is being asked of the supporters yet we’re the ones who will be there when the players have gone.

Finally, Pickford kept the score down. It could have been more.

Because of the lack of goals, there is little of the enthusiasm from the supporters. In truth, the adrenalin is lacking after last year. Shame that the Palace match, fantastic experience as it was, may ultimately count for nothing.

How could the club not anticipate this lack of striking potential? Gross dereliction of duty by all concerned.

The away supporters are finding it difficult to get up for it and were / have been largely subdued of late.

As opposed to the sheer passion and drive towards the end of last season.

I get a sense of genuine worry and concern.

That's how I see it.

Let's change it on Sunday. They need us and we need them.

I don't even know if the board were in attendance last last night. I'm past caring right now.

You, I and thousands were. And we will be again on Sunday. Let's show unity with the team and manager, because right now, that is what matters most.

For a club obsessed with history, the 7 years of Moshiri/Kenwright will be the lowest ever moment for the club. The quality of the squad and football on offer is shameful. I've always felt we should have stuck with Big Sam until the new stadium.

It's not all on him we are weak in most areas. But at the top end of the pitch I don't think I have seen a more ineffective player than Maupay and that includes people like, Angel, Niasse, Spencer, strac, Barlow, Eastoe, O'Keefe etc etc. Can anyone tell me what he is good at? How the hell did we end up with him. I reckon I could pick out local lads playing non league that would offer more than him.

It was posted earlier that once Arsenal realised that there was not attacking threat from Everton.they pushed forward.This is now standard tactics at the beginning of the first half against Everton.Dyche has used these tactics himself against Everton, 'They can't score'.Now he has to come up with a solution to counter such tactics.He definitely knows what the problem is. Dyche did make a substitution 10 minutes earlier than the last game, but was late subbing Doucoure.I am not including the hooking of Gueye.Depending on Gyenr as the sole defending midfielder was never a good idea.

Didn't really expect a result at Arsenal.Sunday a result is needed.As I said it is going to be a roller coaster run in to the end of the season.They main thing to avoid is the inevitable freefall that is the characteristic off relegated teams .That has still to come , hopefully it is one of two of our rivals.

I am surprised so many long suffering Evertonians appear to have given up the ghost.Time to find the hidden strength that they all have ,which has always been evident over the years and is still within them.

We can demand Coady is dropped for a couple of mistakes, now the same will happen for Gana, just like when Frank ostracized Allan, Doucouré and Gomes for similar. But who is to come in? Godfrey apart from a stint at left back with Ancellotti has been the most error prone defender in the squad with a knack for being out of position.

I'm tired of seeing the same players do the same things, badly. This team has zero goals in them and has zero attacking threat. The only option I can see if start to give some of the young lads a go, Mills right wing for a start, Price in midfield and no harm in using Simms instead of Maupay, becuase these are the players who will be in the side next season in the championship.

It's a sad state of affairs when Burnley, who we relagted last season, now running away with the championship with a modern manager and a bright youthful technical squad, look like a better option for a player and would likely run rings round this team.

Like Danny, I think we need to show unity with the players and manager. Forest is a game. We must try to create the sort of atmosphere we had at Leicester last May.

I feel a little sorry for Dyche, he is in a very difficult position, he has few attacking options and our midfield is probably one of the worst I have ever seen. And I don't think many of our defenders are that good idea. Onana is a complete waste of time he is poor in both halves of the pitch and he goes down far to easily given the size of him. Sadly the years have caught up with Gana and cant for the life of me cant understand why he just didnt roll the ball back for Pickford to clear. Doucoure put a shift in but I never feel he is going to score or make the right pass when he charges forward. Coleman kept Martinelli quiet just as he did at Goodison but Godfrey was taken to the cleaners on a couple of occasions and could and should have prevented their 3rd goal. Iwobi is the same awful player everybody wanted shut of 18 months ago, but he just runs around a bit more while never ever making a proper challenge for the ball.

I thought Tarkowski and Keane did ok and Mykolenko was at fault for the first goal, but to be fair he had 2 Arsenal players either side of him in our box, but he should have been behind Saka not alongside him.

Keeping Everton in the Premier league is beginning to look like mission impossible in our last 5 games we have scored 2 goals, one from a corner and the other a miracle goal from Coleman. But we have conceded 8 goals in those 5 games. So we cant score and we cant keep clean sheets, so how do we pick up enough wins to make us safe.

I don't blame Dyche for any of this he is trying to change things, but its like turning a tanker in the Mersey it takes time and unfortunately he hasn't got the time.

If the opposition score first, we are losing.

All things considered, it looks like we have the right manager for the job at hand, but Christ he has nothing to work with attacking wise without Calvert-Lewin.

Think Gray needs to be in the team however, as at least he can find the net. Don't think it makes sense for that side to have it's top scorer left on the bench. He won't give us the hold up play of a centre forward, but has more chance of getting us a goal.

I would be playing Gray up top on his own until C-L is fit enough for his next one game spell.

We have zero players who can put the ball in their net so we're screwed. It wouldn't make a blind bit of difference who the manager was at this stage.

The league table is looking increasingly ugly. I can see us relegated before the last game of the season.

Nothing against him but he never made sense.

The second biggest mistake the club made(the first was not getting a striker) was to leave Frank in the post for so long. If Dyche had come in earlier, we would be in midtable now.

He has won two games and lost three. If we had drawn twice with Arsenal- most of us would have been happy, but he got us three points of them, not just two. Villa are a very handy side and we were a tad unlucky.

Let's see what happens on Sunday, before our mass suicide.

For me we played quite well in the girst half but mistakes by Myolenko and Gueye gave the initiative.
Then Godfrey and Keane could not keep our any crosses with Keane making his customary lapses of concentration.
If I had my way Maupay wouldn’t even be in the squad. We desperately need to try to get better in the final third and Demarai Gray, Simms and Stanley Mills all should be given a chance.

They are treating the lifeblood of the club, the fans, with total and utter contempt by their silence.

Much in keeping with the monarchy when threatened by scandal, its a case of 'Keep silent and it will blow over'.....well not this time it won't.

Evertonians come on here and agonise about the predicament of their beloved team, while these boardroom shysters remain tight lipped in their exclusive gated luxury homes, unable to offer not one word of explanation or empathy.

If we do somehow manage to avoid relegation, I sincerely hope that the ensuing euphoria, will not diminish the memory of these dark days and those responsible for them.

I don't think you are in a minority many raised their eyebrows at Sam being elbowed without at least one summer window but we have a screeching, mindless, sect among the fanbase that the clueless Moshiri tunes into as a result we're going down.

The double lunacy of building a new stadium before building a decent team defies all logic and historical precedence but the same fans complicit in umpteen managerial changes couldn't see it and are now blaming the board when the blame lies squarely at Moshiri's door..

Wouldn't be surprised if Moshiri and Usmanov got together and said "how can we get these twats back?" BENITEZ!!

Reminds me there were good times, way back in 1984 - 87 when I chose to become an Everton supporter as a 9 yr old. The thought of relegation is an alien one as I've never experienced it as a fan. I expected a defeat last night, just as I expect to lose the majority of our away homes left and probably home games vs the top teams. Results vs Forest, Brentford, Fulham, Palace, Leicester, Wolves and Bournemouth are now pivotal. 21 possible points there, enough to go pass the 40 point barrier. Trouble is with the least goals scored in the Prem this season, it's a big ask for 7x 1-0 wins.

Everton need the fans, and Everton have got some of the most loyal and fanatical fans, in the whole country. We have had loads of ‘bad times’ but if DCL doesn’t get fit soon, then the worst time of the lot, is waiting just around the corner.

I love Everton, but I went to work last night, and listened on the radio instead, knowing I would have only got depressed watching them playing. There was a discussion on Iwobi on another thread, so when I googled Ordregard’s sexy skill, it was no surprise who he saw coming in, to half tackle him.

I could go on but it’s really quite simple to me. Everton need a centre forward, someone to run, someone to back into central defenders, someone to keep the ball, allowing us to get second phase play, and someone to get in the box and score.

Moshiri has given up, but good old Kenwright, is not prepared to jump from the sinking ship. My own view is that if the fraud is going to attend away games, then the great Evertonians should stay away, but that’s just my own view, because it would be the ultimate sacrifice, and show every single person in the sycophantic press, that this self centered, egotistical bastard, has helped to destroy us, and not a single Evertonian, wants him anywhere near our football club any longer.

I know Messi, is light years away from DCL, but one thing they do have in common is their value to the team. Get fucking fit Dominic, because we need you back immediately.

When the PL started we were one of the “Big Five”, now look at us. We are in for a few lean years, but in the longer term, when the present owner and BK are just a bad memory, the club (by which I mean the fan base) is big enough to recover. Keep the faith!

That's not a win that proves some bold managerial choices. To be honest, it's a fluke. We've had a few go against us in key games; this one went for us.

Arsenal was a lightning in a bottle moment. Helped by having our only striker available for an hour. We were dreadful once he went off.

We're no better. The players are still crap. We still can't score. We don't even really look like it. Nothing has changed. We huff and puff in defence and midfield a bit more but that's just presentation rather than intent.

We have to try something. But, going back to my original point, if I was going to look for a manager who could find a way to be more creative, more attacking, take more risks... I wouldn't appoint Dyche.

That's not a knock on Dyche. If we were bold but leaking goals I'd be all for him. But that wasn't the problem.

I personally think it’s a true shout. Ancellotti said he wasn’t a magician, Benitez said you can’t buy character in John Lewis, and this same character was also questioned a few times by Frank Lampard, usually after another away day mauling.

We do need to change our mentality, but it must be soul destroying knowing you haven’t got enough up front, to go and really hurt teams, especially once you go a goal down.

The board never produced any money for a forward, and Everton actually beat the league leaders a few weeks ago at ‘Goodison Pk’ but we also had a strong, aggressive, hardworking centre forward on the pitch that day.

Our form over the season is just not good enough, whats killing most is our results against our relegation rivals.
We are not quite dead yet but we are going to have to have help from Leeds, Wolves and Forest, I think West Ham will climb up the table.

To rely on one injury prone centre forward from the start of the season has been nothing short of criminal.

One thing is for sure, we have no goals in this team as we line up. Without goals you cannot win and we need wins now, not draws. My own deck chair re-arrangement would be Simms and Gray up front, the rest of the team arranged to facilitate this. The latter does at least sometimes look like he can score, the former we have no idea about but that is slightly better than knowing full well Maupay won't and can't score.

It says a lot about our situation that this suggestion is not totally barking mad, yet it leaves us placing our hope in an unproven rookie and an unstable guy bought for just over a million who is not even a striker.

The only consolation about our recent away form is that we've played mostly sides from the top half of the table, the alarming point is that we got well beaten at Bournemouth and West Ham in that run.

Yes he is a young player but in the Derby game he was shown up by the younger 18 year old Liverpool midfielder who was awarded the MOTM, a kid I’d never heard of in his first season and played a lot less than Onana and cost much less as well.

Onana was pretty elusive last night.

Pickford kept the score down from the already demoralising 4 - 0 drubbing.

Gueye made a terrible decision and mistake that led to a goal.

McNeil played well in the period we were still in the game. As he did against Villa.

Maupay can't play up their on his own. He's not that type of forward player. in fact, I don't know what type of forward player he is. He can be a nuisance, but we're not seeing much end product. If any.

McNeil has a sweet left foot and good delivery but no-one to aim for.

Given that, someone made a good suggestion after the Villa game. Why not switch him to the right side so he can use that left peg to have a few shots on goal? Think Andros Townsend against Burnley last season.

I think it's time to give the likes of Mills a try. And play Gray. Does the manager not fancy him?

Anyway, a few days of licking wounds, ranting about Kenwright and the board ahead as we all reset for the trip to the City Ground.

See you all there.

The definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. We are not in a run of bad form, what we are witnessing is is remarkably consistent, accurate portrayal of our quality (or lack of it). The last time any of our attack or midfield- other than Gray- scored in the EPL was four and a half months ago. There are less than three months to go before the end of the season. That equation does not bode well.

Being realistic, I am not expecting miracles from my suggestion, as I think my post suggests. It probably won't work but at least it has the merit of not definitely not working

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/64805130

But his decline since returning is frightening and that, alongside the massive disappointment that is Doucoure and the raw talent of other central midfielders has blown a hole in that position of the pitch which, given we have problems up front and down the flanks, is the recipe for disaster.

We've always had a problem in one part of the team in previous seasons. Like when we didn't replace Lukaku or when the centre mid was struggling and Carlo rightly brought in Allan. But to have so many dysfunctional positions on the pitch is ridiculous.

It beggars belief that the board would invest long term with BMD but not in the squad and who coaches them.

My stream went down just after Arsenal scored their first, I didn't bother trying to get it back on as the writing was on the wall.

There's little I can say that previous posters haven't already. I imagine we are now banking on Calvert-Lewin getting fit to try and save our top flight status.

If we do go down, we will be able to see who really is ‘Championship at best'!

I think you and I are of the same opinion on the players who regularly under-perform.

My opinion is that everybody should be putting in a shift and I don't think Dyche thinks Onana is, as he said both Doucoure and McNeil put in a shift and he also said the only reason he took Coleman off was because it will be 3 games in a week at Forest.

I also think Iwobi has worked out over the last 15 months that, as long as he runs around like a headless chicken while cleverly avoiding to make a tackle, the fans will be happy with that, and seemingly many are happy with that.

The problem is we don't have many alternatives – only untried kids from the U21s. How Lampard and Thelwell allowed the club to get into this position is a dereliction of duty. Just to rub salt in the wounds for leaving us in this mess, Lampard has been given a £5M - £7M payoff.

I can’t think of another industry where you make a complete and utter shambles of your job and, in just over a year, you walk with these sorts of amounts.

OK we have to rely on Arsenal losing every game and city gaining just 5 more points but mathematically......

I thought for the first forty minutes we done ok, keeping Arsenal at arms length, without them causing any threats on our goal, until a well worked goal by Saka and a brain fart moment by Gueye, sealed the game as a contest. I guess the second half was a case of damage limitation and maybe try and sneak a goal. Neither were possible, although McNeil brought a good save from Ramsdale, and Tom Davies had a chance later on which he really should have put away.

Was a pretty sombre mood on the coach journey back home, made worse by someone deciding to throw up all over the toilet, covering the floor, walls, door and mirror, resulting in a stop whilst the coach drivers had to clean it all up. Then we had to come off the M6 around Stafford due to, I think, an accident, which put yet more time on the journey, which eventually ended at 2.50am, for me anyway, when I got off at The Rocket, and was met by my taxi (The missus), eventually getting home at 2.55am.

So it’s onto Forest this Sunday, and let’s hope the team can accommodate the wishes of most fans yesterday, accepting the defeat against Arsenal if it meant beating Forest. Despite what some think, we are not down and out. A football season lasts thirty eight games, and there are still thirteen left. We will only be down and out when we are four points behind seventeenth place with one game left.

Five wins from thirteen is a run of form that currently has Spurs in the top four. There's no realistic prospect of us going on that sort of run.

It was painful. It hurt, but at the end of the day, we were just outclassed by a clinical side, who could well win the league this season. We still have a lot to play for.

Amazing you got in only 3 hours after me and I live only 20 miles away from the Emirates.

No pick up from the station for me. Everton are viewed as the other woman in my life that I have apparently been having an affair with for the 30 years we've been together,

When continuously asked who I love the most, the only response I can give is that it's different. It never goes down well but you have to take into account she's from the West Midlands and, to be honest, I probably am a bit excessive when it comes to Everton. I can't help that and can't change it.

The habit I can't break. She will have nothing to do with it. So these days Uber gets me home on the final leg of many long days.

Onto Sunday and will see you and the rest of the blues there. We are still in the fight despite last night.

It's not going to be pretty so for those of you who are not in for the ride, close your eyes. Mine are wide open and I'm willing to fix bayonets. Okay, that's a bit extreme, but you get the emotion.

This time out I want a celebratory man hug Rob!!!

Goal difference is no longer our friend as you say but the crazy thing is that we've only conceded one more goal than Tottenham who are in fifth. Typically teams with -20 goal difference are conceding 70/80 goals per season as opposed to 40 odd.

On their own grounds, Saints have only taken six points, Leicester a dozen, Bournemouth Everton and Wolves fourteen with Leeds on sixteen. Forest unfortunately have taken nineteen points at home, so will be a tougher nut to crack than some might think.

Everton should really try and go for it on Sunday, it's not make or break, but a win at Forest wouldn't go amiss.

I wish I could still travel, because there was always a great camaraderie among travelling fans and Evertonians have always been able to make their own entertainment Which is just as well really. The team hasnt done it for years

Goal difference can be an indication of a club in a false position. On that basis, it's Forest we should have in our sights.

The companionship amongst the travelling fans is unrivalled. Amongst those who know each other and those we don't know but talk to.

I was talking to a young kid and his dad last night to reassure the poor lad. Never met them in my life. I made him smile, which was difficult in the circumstances.

And it works both ways for the likes of me and others as every home game and trip to my home city is an away day. We always find a way to be there.

Cheese bites and chicken works for my dogs. Maybe I should try that with the players.

Rob and others, see you Sunday. We are not down and out.

I'm hoping Dyche can build on that for this weekend rather than what happened in the rest of the game.

We also learned a few things in the second half last night.

1. Holgate is not a midfielder.
2. Godfrey does not have the positional awareness to play as a full back

I really hope Dyche realises soon that he has to fit Gray into the team. He is our best hope of scoring a goal. It can't be just about hard work (Maupay) and running around like a headless chicken (Iwobi).

I sat on my hands at Stoke in the Boothen End when we scored one time, the goal was disallowed but I saw a couple of battered blues getting escorted out shortly after. That place was rough.

By the way, Danny, sorry if I’ve mis-interpreted your post, and there was no patronising on your behalf.

Phil McNulty 5 minute video on our current plight on the BBC with fan input. Worth a watch,

If you’re into predictions I found the following site that you can predict results until the end of the season and a table calculator. I have us 1 point short of safety👎

https://thefishy.co.uk/calculator1.php

Butvall players in an6 team have an off spell, in a game, a bad game in a month,a few over a season, that’s Seriously wonder if Gana and Mykolenko, think they’re playing 5 aside, because last night wasn’t the first time, but the manner of the second hoal, Gana looked like he was in a “haze..”

But Forest, also are in no great shape, in terms of form and players available.

So now it’s a modern version in terms of result, but not as important as Palace last season at home, Wimbledon, 94, and Coventry 98, but vital in view of the dynamic of this month of fixtures.

They were the games in those seasons, that went to the last game, and despite last nights result, there’s still plenty of games to play.

Fire and steel, and belief, but no shirking and no losing role and responsibility on th3 pitch.

For me start with Demarai, and we have a shooters chance, and so Maupay should be homing in on any spills, and purposely Everton should change the flight and target area and go low near post when the position presents, from a dead ball.

TC, was the bravest of the brave since Andy Gray, but Maupay, must have this in his locker, to get in the kill zone, for a diving header..

The old days at Forest, good memories, not one of Everton’s better grounds but good days out, and a few hoodoos, were broken over the years.

I’d get Reid, Ratcliffe, Psycho, Bracewell, and Nev, down, to Finch Farm this week, to get the players, inspired, and prepared to fight for Everton's future.

The stakes are high, and the future of the club is at stake.

UTFTs!

And for good measure Amo, Limpar, Parkinson, Rideout, Hinchcliffe..

Reality is that unfortunately the last period of success, and Everton players who were winners, is a long time ago.

But every game now is a Cup Final.

Cmon, Everton, pay back time, and no mercy. Please beat Forest.

I was working close to BMD, today, and took a good look, and the stadium looks fantastic, and to have done so much, with a massive project just to get the ground ready for build, is some thing else.

This building, is a statement as many have said, relegation is not an option, this season or any for Everton.

“Whats Our Name!”

UTFTs!

Thank you for your post.

The game on Sunday against Forest away now takes on an even greater significance, if we can get a positive result hope is restored, albeit temporarily, but nevertheless we still have a few mountains to climb after that.

Thankfully I wasn’t able to watch it as I was at work but I read various reports saying how Whittles nephew blew an easy chance to score : again. Yes the game was lost but a goal or two could’ve impacted our goal difference Easily the worst player ever to make more than

50 appearances for us.. Obviously, there’s one poster on here who will be frothing at the mouth at any criticism of Whittles relative for reasons unknown. But honestly it would be better to take a player off and send no one on at all than to bring on that 150 appearance joker. As to Simms? We know from Sunderland, Hearts etc that he can shoot. Yes he might be too slow and immobile to get himself into a scoring position at EPL level very often. But, at least there’s a chance that if a chance comes his way he can hit the target versus Maupay who couldn’t score in a brothel.

I would not be surprised to see "Bette"/"Harpo"/RCWTH (or whatever other side splittingly funny name the Tony Blackburns want to call him) Start on Sunday.

The unceremonious manner in which Dyche removed Gana from the fray would suggest he has lost patience with a guy who seems to be working up to surrendering a goal a game.

While those who clearly didnt see the game will single TD out (Yet again). Those who did (And I include Dyche) will know the fourth goal went in within a minute of him coming on - Before he had even touched the ball...I think the manager is more likely to be blaming the players who actually got hammered than a late sub he put on to try to stem the tide.

The knowledgeable fan will be inclined to criticise our players who gave up the goals and were being run ragged by a rampant swaggering Arsenal. The others, Wont.

Those "Previous life Hypnotist's" have got an awful lot to answer for

I actually think that Tom should play in Gueye's holding role in midfield against Forest.

He has positional discipline and looks like to play a progressive pass. I am pretty sure he filled in that position on occasion, and I recall being impressed with the intelligent way he approached it.

He turned round with his hand held out towards (I think) our lot as if to say “where is the support”. He looked really distressed when he was subbed.

I think he can score he just needs a bit of support. I would definitely drop Iwobi and replace him with Gray.

Gray on the right, McNeill on the left both of whom can cut in and shoot on their best foot. Give the opposition defenders more than one goal threat to deal with. That will really help Maupay.

Hardly time to impact an already lost game.

On Gueye, he's being asked to do too much. He can still be a good anchor man, but needs people around him.

Onana needs to show more consistency to realise his potential. Iwobi seems to recently have gone back to his confused and indecisive self.

Maybe Davies alongside Gueye could work?

He sees the big picture, does Tom, and although he might not be Zidane, he always puts in a shift. I would like to see him play from the start on Sunday.

Gana has done some decent work of late but he has become dozy and lost possession with his impression of one of Lewis's and his tendency to pass the ball to the fellers in the wrong kit.

In a meritocracy, people should be dropped when they have a few bad games and promoted if they put in the graft in training. Coady was rightfully dropped, so now I hope Iwobi will be benched too. Surely it is time for Gray to start in his place.

I would like to see 4-4-2 with Simms up top alongside Maupay but I imagine that Dyche will stick to one up top. We need momentum, we need to avoid defeat.

Boy do we need a win.

Good spot about Iwobi. I watched the game to the very end, painful and upsetting, but up until the 40th min, we looked tight and the game plan was working… hit on break.

We had chances too in the first half, I think I could have scored one of them in heels! But asking them to keep that up for 90 minutes was never going to work unless we nicked one.

Getting back to Iwobi, no way should he be out wide... hopeless. He was far more effective when we played him as a Number 10 (says a lot, that). He ran but actually didn't track back. Coleman was attacked all evening… so what now?

I think Gana got sin-binned, and unless we have no options, I doubt he will start against Forest. Holgate was nowhere near good enough in midfield, ending the conversation about him playing there.

But the big ask is up front. Nothing Dyche has tried so far has worked at all. Not his fault, but it’s time to shuffle the deck.

Assuming no Calvert-Lewin, start with two up front... find a playmaker in Garner if fit, If not Simms up front then stick Mina there as a target man – he causes chaos in penalty areas and is a handful.

We can still do this, but Dyche really needs to change it; more of the same gives more of the same because, at the moment, we cannot wait for Calvert-Lewin or Maupay to come good.

If / when Calvert-Lewin gets fit, the line-up might look a bit more able to save us:

Pickford
Patterson Mina Tarkowski Godfrey
Gray Garner Onana (or Gueye) McNeil
Iwobi
Calvert-Lewin

I don't often get into the predictive line-ups, but I also think it's better to have Iwobi in the centre of a 3, so I guess I'm reverting to a 4-3-2-1.

Probably McNeil, Iwobi and Gray backed up by two from Gueye, Davies or Onana.

But the underlying problem being that we don't have strikers. Well, not ones that like scoring goals!

On we go to Nottingham. I'll be there and I know you will be from thousands of miles away in spirit and soul, which takes just as much effort. I can sleep on the train!!

Gareth Barry did the job brilliantly, Lee Carsley also did it very well for a few years.

The only player I’ve seen do the job well recently has been Tom Davies for a few games when Allan was injured. His positional discipline was spot on, he also slotted in for full backs if they went forward to ensure we weren’t exposed in wide areas on the counter and put in a lot of crunching challenges to break up play.

Tom Davies has also had more chances in 25 minutes of the last 2 games he’s played than the combined 500 minutes of the other 3 central midfielders.

Unfortunately Tom doesn’t come with a hefty price tag and has therefore got to prove himself all over again to every manager.

The Nottingham game is a must win I feel, if we lose this one we are in dire trouble baring miracles.
They are slight favs in the betting but the result could go any old way between two poor teams.

We cant even buy a goal from the midfield, if the club had a plan to get us relegated they could have not executed it better.
Sell Richarlison, Gordon and rely on the fitness of DCL, brilliant!

For some unbeknown reason to me, he really dislikes Everton.

And that is not paranoia.

Gobshite.

That's two visits and donations to the sweatbox in one post.

Regarding TD you also mention, before he had a touch, now there's another rarity, as I 've said before, he makes all the moves to get involved, never quite makes it and raises his boot as if to say, "that was close" (10 to 15 yards too slow) only to repeat, rinse and re-spin. If he was Washing Machine, he would have been on the discarded White Goods Pile at the Tip or Scrapyard long ago.

Hoping the successful run out by both Patterson and Garner does see some involvement on Sunday against Forest, even using Patterson as a right sided Midfielder with Seamus behind. Likewise Godfrey at left back with Vinagre/Myko as a left sided Midfielder pushing McNeil further forward.

I would play Maupay wide, Davies in centre midfield and leave Dyche to sort the rest of the team out, we do need battlers not day dreamers in the team, have we got enough battlers? We’ll find out on Sunday after we win because we will win.

Something different is not always something better.

The Gana situation is tricky, he's made two mistakes in the last game and given up two crucial goals that hurt us. But equally we looked much less coherent in the second half with him gone. He's obviously in poor form but who would do better? Maybe Onana could play there but he still looks raw. Holgate is NOT a DCM and neither is Doucoure. Maybe Davies will be given a shot but that seems unlikely.

We should be in the OK Corral's OK Saloon !

Whether it is Clickbait or not but I have read, that Iwobi wants a move, and is looking to move on, as much as I don't mind the lad, I do think we overpaid for him, and at first he was pretty pathetic, but has since become our most Industrious player, but not really producing enough for all his running. I therefore, if the rumours prove to be true, would not be shedding too many tears regarding his departure. Truly believe we need a massive shake-up of playing personnel, and Board (first)

Whereas Colin Glassar, has already got the Champagne on Ice, got Playboy Bunny GIrls on short notice, and doing Scissor Kicks as he walks down his street. :-)

I only watched the highlights but looking at Arsenal’s first goal, it’s clear that Onana doesn’t want to do the dirty work, and this really helps the opposition.

Arsenal are clever, the Ukrainian left back, played the same way at Goodison, and constantly went and played in central midfield, because his team were manipulating the ball, but if you play half hearted, this just allows your opponent that extra little bit of time they need, and this is how I viewed Arsenal’s first goal.

Onana might be able to stroll, if or when he gets to play for a top team, but right now we need everyone working hard for each other, and not feigning that it should be somebody else’s job, to go and close down the man with the ball. We all see a different game.

As with Allan, Gueye has been mistaken for a holding midfielder on the basis that he tackles a lot.

However, Gueye is a hunter of the ball in a hard pressing team. Not a holding midfielder in a deep sitting team. And his range of passing is much worse than Allan's.

Carsley and Barry were specialists who slotted into that specialist position well.

Onana may grow into that role but he's not there yet. He'd benefit right now from an experienced holding midfielder alongside him. That's not Gueye, Doucoure or Davies.

So, as with the attack, there isn't an obvious better option to what Dyche is already doing in midfield - just a different bad one.

Deli
Gana
Van der Beek
Coady
Maupay and
McNeil

have hardly set the world on fire. The jury is out on Garner and Onana.

Do we actually know who acquired Myko and Patterson?

Bringing back Gana reminds me of the return of Rooney and the acquisition of Ginola and Gazza before that.

Onana is 21 and can become a very good player, but he's walked into the tornado that is Everton and we've placed a lot of expectation on him because we have few alternative options.

I'd give him a rest. Tom will be chomping at the bit more than my boy Ridgeback spotting a fox at 6am.

Thelwell has a lot of shit to sort out under the constraints he has walked into. That isn't going to happen overnight.

Good analysis on the similarities but also differences between Allan and Gueye Robert.

The sooner the waste of space is gone the better.
I’ve rarely seen a more pointless midfielder, he shuffles all over the field but never sprints back, never makes a tackle despite nearly getting to the man, isn’t a creator, shows no aggression, he’s not a goal threat and isn’t a dead ball specialist….apart from that!

I don't know about others, but I'm getting angrier by the day, with the silence emanating from the Goodison hierarchy, I worry that some new and unexpected bombshell is ready to torpedo our collective and already fragile confidence, but I also hope that the silence is masking good news and a reshuffle of the board is on the cards.

Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde by Robert Louis Stevenson is a narrative about the complexities of the school of science and the duplicity of the Everton hierarchy. Dr Jekyll was a kind, well-respected and intelligent impresario who meddles with the darker side of the school of science, as he wants to bring out his 'second' mortgage to replace Mr Hide who hasn't been seen in the Walton area for at least 18 months.

Onana. Is being played out of position, because of his height. You cannot be creative, in an advanced position, that he is being told to do.

Iwobi. As we all know. Is shite when he plays on the wing.

Never thought I would say this. We miss Rondom and Townsend.

Mike 280, he has been picked by every manager he's had with us and he's a rare beast in our team that can find a pass that puts one of our players through the opposition defence. It doesn't happen that often mind you.

Interestingly, the only other one who can get his head up and try to make things happen is Davies. Or Garner if he’s ever fit.

As for Iwobi, I was happy to change my view of him the second half of last season, but he seems to have gone back into a sulk which is unacceptable. Apparently, he's the fittest in the squad by miles, but that didn't show on Wednesday or against Villa. It looks like he's shitting out of responsibility again, a bit like when he pulled out of taking a pen in the League Cup shootout a few seasons back.

He's about the only player in our team who is regularly creating chances (whilst covering every blade of grass) and yet many on here seem to see as public enemy number 1 because he's 'useless'?! Who exactly do you think is a better creator in our squad?! It's not like we have De Bruyne and Odegaard waiting to replace him.

Take him out of the team and we go from creating little to creating almost nothing.

Iwobi is this type of player, and for someone who covers every blade of grass, then it would be nice to see him demanding the ball and demanding the same effort out of his teammates.

It’s hard for every single Everton player right now though because although the manager has given us a better shape and more discipline (I think? I haven’t watched our last two games) but when you haven’t got anyone up front who can run the Chanel’s, or keep hold of the ball, then football suddenly becomes the hardest game in the world.

We haven’t got much at the minute, but you need players who will fight for their teammates right now, and this isn’t something Iwobi, or Onana do enough of, imo. Iwobi works harder, I wish Onana, had the same desire to run as Alex, but Onana can throw a tackle in, although he his playing in patches, and this makes the game harder for everyone else.

We are a very limited team without DCL, but if we can get a very fit DCL, (am I asking for miracle?) then I think we can still win enough games. We will find out soon enough, but it is getting very critical now.

On top of everything else it's not an automatic that DCL will hit the ground running when he does return. He has missed so much football over the past two seasons that it may take him a number of games to regain his sharpness. With only 13 games to go we might be very lucky to get the real DCL for 7 or 8 of those games.

Iwobi may not be the type to play wonder passes but he does play a lot of forward passes into space and into players feet in the box. Not worldbeating stuff perhaps but we have few (no) other players who do it consistently.

It's a time for shouting mindlessly into the void.

Sam is right to point out he has made six assists in those 25 games. Way more than any other player, so on this measure maybe it’s not Iwobi who deserves the criticism!

That doesn’t absolve Iwobi from any criticism. For me he doesn’t close down or press properly, he always ‘allows’ the opposition player to play. He stops and closes the space to an extent so allowing the opponent to always control and make a pass to a teammate under little pressure. Teams and players must love playing against players like Iwobi , no fear, a guaranteed source of increased midfield possession for the opponent.

So he’s a double edged sword of a player, we need his creativity but the last thing we need is loose, fearful pressing. Pressing is a team effort, one weak link and it starts to suffer.

At the moment the dearth of creativity in the side means I don’t think we have much choice but to play him, and try some more to coach some aggression into his defensive work. The alternative solutions are debatable.

I would never expect anyone to just go and kick players, but when you seen him slide short enabling Orgregard, to take the piss the other night, then this is the perfect example of watching a player who is terrified of getting hurt?

In relative terms, I think he's doing OK. He moves well and he creates a lot of space, he knows where to be. Some of his passing is very good. He doesn't have a lot to work with up front,

Interesting that in the 40 minutes before we fell apart at Arsenal, they paid him quite a bit of attention.

Just seen Firminho’s stats for Liverpool. According to the BBC:

He has made 353 appearances for Liverpool, scoring 107 goals and providing 70 assists.

There’s a creative player who also knows how to score.

Personally, I’d rather have Gray playing rather than Iwobi but, if, as it seems, Iwobi really is our most creative player, then perhaps we need to play both.

The prime objective right now is finding a formula that produces goals from what we have, Garner may (or may not) provide a creative boost, Townsend would be nice to see back but would there not be some merit in getting Iwobi back into his preferred central position playing behind Maupay - who allegedly thrives better on balls through into his feet - with Simms alongside so Maupay is less isolated, and Gray/McNeil on the left and right so they can cut inside and shoot or ping crosses in. 2 of Garner, Onana, Doucourie, Davies, Gana making up the midfield 5 and the 3 defenders from the usual suspects.

Or have we already tried something similar? Dyche must be clutching at straws trying to come up with something.

Reverting back to my original point, I am sceptical about the reliance on DCL as a saviour.

We're in dire straits and some halfwits on here think we should dispose of the man who has contributed the most assists for the team. It's embarrassing, it really is. The same brainless megaphones time after time, moaning and secretly relishing our plight in some weird, masochistic way.

Such names on here are the enemy because, privately (and for thrills), they crave our death.

Get a fucking spine, you dickheads (I absolve, for the avoidance of doubt, Tony and Will. They understand).

Mr Freud would diagnose us: we give no more Thanatos.

He has big faults does Mr Iwobi but the level of insight on here is appalling.

Yes, Odegaard took the piss a bit but nothing was actually lost in the grand scheme of things, it was horror defending by Mykolenko and a brain fart by Gana that destroyed the game for us.

Iwobi is available for the massive game at Forest and I am grateful that he is! As Will rightly pointed out, Iwobi does not have much to work with upfront, that is an understatement of the highest order!

Iwobi likes to release the ball quickly and speedily to a player in space, all too often these options are simply not there which is usually why possession is lost. This is Everton sadly and not Arsenal – supporting players at the Arse actually move and find space!

Tony #309, not sure if I’m one of the “dickheads” or “halfwits” that you’re talking about but it’s surely not too much to expect that Iwobi, having run half way across the pitch to confront a player with the ball, then puts a proper challenge in. Nobody expects him to play like Gueye.

I would politely describe him as nesh, remember the Man. Unt. cup game, he was carried off in tears with his head in his hands, fans were worrying how long he would be out with this horrible injury, he never missed a game he made a miraculous recovery from a sprained ankle!!

I don't think Iwobi is a fine footballer but we must be realistic. We are facing oblivion and we are picking holes in our most inventive man because he isn't all he might be if he were a different player.

I admire and greatly respect your views, Dave, but the football you and I knew, and desire, is not on offer. You're an astute man and you must know that Iwobi is a creator to be played centrally. He is not a ball winner.

We need to survive so that we may see what you and I want to see again. I say this with proper acknowledgment of your seniority and wisdom on here: you are missing the point about Iwobi, as are many others.

But he does often get quoted on the click-bait sites, someone should give him a calendar as Easter Sunday is on the 9th of April this year, so it's difficult to see how we could be relegated by that point in time as there'll still be eight games to play.

“There's some things that could help him, I'm not saying it's going to make everything rosy again, far from it, but he can help himself by tweaking these little things because if he carries on playing this way, Greg, we're down, we could be down before Easter and we have to change it quickly.”

That said, it is time to mix things up - the last 4 games - scored 1 conceded 8. Indeed, if the team does defend and attack as a unit, then changes a needed more than just upfront.

Davies as the holder (he is actually quite disciplined in that role), Onana as the 8, Iwobi as the 10 - his best form has been here. Out wide - Gray and Mcneil - or even Maupay out wide - with Sims up top as at least he will provide a physical presence. Full backs - possibly Holgate and Godfrey. Even just for mixing it up, keeping players on their toes and not being too predictable.

But then again, what do I know!?

The old football romantic in me would like to see 2 up front - alas, don't think it will a happen!

Just an aside. One thing that I liked about the Moyes reign was his insistence that Everton players don't dive - despite Neville's brainfart against Liverpool. When I see an Everton player feign injury - it massively infuriates me and is why I have almost completely switched off from the game - only ever watching Everton when it comes to football. So, was anyone else a little embarrassed by Onana going to the floor (I think it was 3 times) against Arsenal after some tiny contacts with his face? I have seen the 6'5'' colossas Mina do it a few times, was absolutely not a Richarlison fan because of his very very over the top theatrics - and remember vividly the 'Brazilian Peter Reid' looking forlorn at a ref lifting his shorts to show him a bruise!

Maybe it is just me!!!!!

Gana deserved to be taken off but we looked even worse with Holgate so if Sean Dyche decides to keep Gana on the bench again against Forest, for me Davies is the best option to replace him.

I would love to see Mina paired with Tarkowski. Mina is the best defender we have at the club when fit. He is available now so play him until he gets injured.

Gray simply has to play but judging on the way Dyche was talking in his press conference today, I think Maupay will start again. Sean again put out this strange way of thinking that the longer Maupay goes without scoring, that statistically he will score sometime. You could say that about any player, good or bad

Honestly Tony although Iwobi has some good points he disappoints in every game with his lack of fight, out wide may not be the position he prefers but he has to do the best he can wherever he plays, he just doesn’t do it, against Leeds and Villa he never once tried to go past the full back and then look up and get a centre past the first man, he never runs back with any conviction to try and stop the opposition.

When he plays in his best position he leaves big gaps which are exploited to a large degree, and I think we need ball winners especially in the centre of the field where games are won with tackles and players who can use the ball well, I don’t think he has made the seven assists he is credited with but I’ll go along with them, even so Tony seven assists from the twenty games Iwobi has played there is not a lot to be proud of when he is the prime schemer.

We don’t have a great midfield to choose from and he isn’t helped by others in that position but he has to seriously work a lot more than he does for him to make his own space to use that skill.

I think we are all getting depressed and frustrated by the position we are in wish we were safe already and obviously all have different ideas of who and where players should play, I would love Alex Iwobi to play, on Sunday, where you want him to play get some assists which come off and even score one himself and I would join in the praise like I think we all would, maybe he will. Best wishes Tony for you, me and Everton on Sunday.

Best wishes to you too and to our old team, of course.

I saw that Onana was deliberately smacked in the gob, nothing, not even a yellow, but we have come to expect nothing to be given in our favour, hence my initial worry with Iwobi when about to go in on Odegaard. I always felt the Arsenal lad was gonna be first to it and favourite to win it that was all.

Oliver gets questioned the least because he's allegedly the best referee, but it's easy to spot when someone is not being fair and treating both teams equally, imo, and that's why I always view this referee with suspicion.

Also, he is a good enough player to be angry at his mistakes and to play a blinder on Sunday. Dyche slapped him in the hope that on Sunday, Gana will slap him back. He will, we will win.

He doesn't make tackles because he can't. He runs along side opponents and, probably, irritates them in a minor ‘getting in the way' sort of thing. For that and just that, he is a veritable Hercules in our team.

He must start on Sunday and in every game. No, he is not my favourite player, could any blue, with even the slightest retention of their marbles, have a favourite among this fucking lot, but… Iwobi is our Pele.

This must be one of the maddest things I've ever read on what is generally quite a mad website. I kind of get the basic point, but still... crazy times. Personally, I'd play him centrally or not at all, though I sort of see the alternative view.

As for Gana, if it was a one-off brainfart, I'd say fine pick him again. But he has brainfarts regularly and makes dangerously bad passes several times a game. He scares the hell out of me.

Two or three weeks ago when you were defending your "not very good player" you commented that you'd "had too much" and had therefore walked home from the ground (which maybe causes folk other than me to question the validity of your polar-opposite postings).

Maybe you should seek a little help from that eminently worthy group, AA.

And, for the avoidance of doubt, I'm referring to "Arseholes Anonymous".

Where you agree with me (when you're not on a "Carlo-alone-caused-all-our-woes" rant - again very recently posted by you) on the huge incompetence/self-serving fecklessness of Kenwright in destroying our club, it should surely follow in a sober mind that criticism of players contracted for years under his aegis is seriously missing the point. They're in it for themselves, period, as is he bizarrely.

A bit like any dickhead TW poster doing his own thing regardless of the criticism he draws for years from fellow Toffees don't you think?

But do carry on.

Just the thinking we need. Sometimes the tabloid dimness on here makes me think we deserve the drop.

Some people just do not get it.

We are constantly chasing games because we don't have a goal in us.

As soon as we go a goal down anxiety sets in, we start chasing the game and stupid mistakes creep in, we're never in a position where we can relax and play decent measured football.

We lose our shape, composure and belief, we're an accident waiting to happen and in invariably does.

"That would be a significant number, and they love it."

Going out on a limb here but I really doubt you'd be able to name a significant number of names.

He very rarely tries to score, he rarely creates a chance (and "assists" in this day and age can be the ball bouncing off you last), he hardly ever makes a tackle despite running up and down the whole game, and he's weak in the air.

And yet I also have to agree that there's way worse than him in our squad.

Wonder who sanctioned this circumstance!

This is a site which is famously/notoriously attractive to "Everton Das": grumpy, ranting old fuckers for whom nothing has been right since at the latest 1970.

I'm naming no names - not least because I'm one of them and I'd rather remain anonymous.

Hope you understand.

It’s not a high bar, but he is easily our most creative player, creates goals and has an amazing engine on him. Frankly, I don’t want him in dropping deep into midfield to make thundering tackles. He will have most impact higher up the field close to the striker.

We have a whole squad of complete donkeys to run around and tackle everything that moves. Not that they are even very good at that!

We should introduce a crapometer to assess players’ performances rather than a score out of ten. What shade of crap was each player this week?

I think right now most of them are a very yellow watery color that you keep thinking is finished but then another round of crap comes.

Yes, getting out of this mess is all that counts while the debates on the merits of the players can go round in circles and get us nowhere, unless one or two of them turn our fortunes around and prove some of us wrong. I'd really love to be one of those proved wrong.

Thanks for your reply, Tony. I went to bed early with a good book, to take my mind off the Blues and have just seen your post now. I hope everyone is in a better mood tomorrow afternoon with a good result.

Dyche has been lumbered with a squad that is borderline Premier League standard, if he drops Iwobi who is there better and this applies to most positions in the team.

I'm clinging to the hope that DCL can get fit and stay fit to give us a much needed threat in attack. Its an outside chance I know, but if we keep putting out the same toothless team every week we will keep getting the same results.

Match day must be getting close. I'm feeling that first trickle of inexplicable optimism.