Everton beat Celtic on penalties in Sydney

20/11/2022 150comments  |  Jump to last
Celtic 0 - 0 Everton (2 - 4 on penalties)

Everton won the Sydney Super Cup thanks to a 4-2 triumph in a penalty shoot-out after the game itself ended goalless despite some great chances to win it for both sides.

The exhibition game took place in the 80,000-seat Accor Stadium where a crowd of just over 41,000 saw Anthony Gordon score the winning penalty after the Scots had missed their first two spot-kicks. 

Frank Lampard had a number of regular first-team players missing, either through injury or World Cup duty, but still fielded a strong side, with Isaac Price the only one of the rarely seen youngsters from the Under-21 side named in the starting XI in place of the injured Tom Davies. 

The Blues had the first sight of goal when Demarai Gray's effort deflected narrowly past the far post and two minutes later, Neal Maupay should have opened his account but his attempted chip over Joe Hart when clean through missed the target.

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James Tarkowski despatched a header from a corner over the crossbar and there was a penalty claim for Gray turned down before Celtic came very close to breaking the deadlock with half an hour gone but Jota crashed a free-kick off the crossbar.

Gray saw another shot deflected wide of goal following a quick counter by Anthony Gordon after 33 minutes at one end while Begovic denied Kyogo at the other. Celtic had a number of chances from dangerous free-kicks, Turnbuull driving one at Begovic just before the break. 

The first half finished goalless and Lampard was forced to withdraw Yerry Mina at the break because of a hamstring injury and Abdoulaye Doucoure also came off with an unspecified knock.

Celtic had a gilt-edged chance to score early in the second period when Kyogo arrived to meet a cross from the right but the forward was denied brilliantly by Begovic.

Everton immediately had a chance to respond at the other as Gray raced down the right flank but his attempted cross searching out Maupay took a wicked deflection into the side-netting and Michael Keane should have done better with a header from the corner but powered it wide of goal.

Another opportunity opened up for Jota outside the box after Patterson was caught trying to dribble out of his own area but the Celtic man's curler narrowly cleared the bar, as did Matt O'Riley's powerful drive a few minutes later.

The game was being played at a fair clip and a brilliant turn by Gray saw him drive forward but when he slipped Maupay in to round the keeper, the Frenchman was forced too far wide and he ended up being unable to stop the ball dribbling over the byline for a goal kick.

A dreadful error by birthday boy, Tarkowski, inadvertently put Jota away as the forward latched onto the defender's back header but Holgate did superbly to race back and put in a saving challenge just inside his own box to keep matters goalless.

Ruben Vinagre replaced Vitalii Mykolenko in the 66th minute and a double change saw Maupay and Gray (the latter having taken a couple of heavy blows to the ankle) make way for Tom Cannon and Stanley Mills nine minutes later but it was Turnbull who had the next chance for Celtic with a low shot that was straight at Begovic from 25 yards out.

Jamie Forrest's shot was blocked on its way to goal and Price skied an ambitious effort following an Everton corner as the match wound into its final minutes with neither side looking likely to win it but when a foul wasn't given the Blues' way near the byline and the ball was crossed into the six-yard box, Abada somehow shot wide with the goal gaping and just Begovic to beat from close range.

That meant the contest ended goalless, forcing a penalty shootout to decide the game:

Keane – scored (0-1)
Giakoumakis – missed (0-1)
Cannon – scored (0-2)
Hatate – hit post (0-2)
Patterson – scored (0-3)
Forrest – scored (1-3)
Mills – saved (1-3)
Abada – scored (2-3)
Gordon – scored (2-4)

Everton: Begovic, Patterson [Y:44'], Tarkowski, Keane, Mina (Holgate 46'), Mykolenko (Vinagre 66'), Doucoure (McNeil 46'), Price, Gray (Mills 75'), Gordon, Maupay (Cannon 75')

Subs not used: Lonergan, Crellin, Welch, Anderson, Quirk

Celtic: Hart, Ralston, Jenz, Starfelt, Taylor, O’Riley (Vata 85'), Hatate, Turnbull (Abildgaard 85'), Jota (Forrest 71'), Haksabanovic (Abada 60'), Kyogo (Giakoumakis 71')

Subs not Used: Bain, Siegrist, Ideguchi, Bernabei, Robertson, Lawal, Welsh.

Attendance: 41,121

(Tom Davies withdrew from the tour after sustaining a knee injury in a training session this week)


Reader Comments (150)

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Mike Doyle
1 Posted 19/11/2022 at 20:37:20
Our game against Celtic hasn’t inspired the betting community. Not a single £ matched on Betfair yet.
Gary Johnson
2 Posted 19/11/2022 at 21:36:38
Where is Garner?
Paul Hewitt
3 Posted 19/11/2022 at 21:41:10
Not arsed. Just hope we come back against wolves and win.
John Keating
4 Posted 19/11/2022 at 21:44:37
Celtic only know one way to play: attack.

Defensively they're shite.

Mike Doyle
5 Posted 19/11/2022 at 21:45:02
I’ve woken up the betting community … £199 matched now.
Dave Abrahams
6 Posted 19/11/2022 at 21:49:07
Gary (2),injured with a bad back, I think, he wasn’t available for the Bournemouth away game.
Gary Johnson
7 Posted 19/11/2022 at 21:57:42
54% of the squad are defenders or goalkeepers.

In normal circumstances, this would be a great chance to play the kids…..but can see Frank sticking to the favs. Team likely:

Patterson Mina Tarkowski Mykolenko
Davies Doucoure
McNeil Gordon Gray

Even though it's a friendly, another “inchy like” slapping and I hope it'd be enough to wake up the hierarchy that once again the manager needs to go.

Mike Doyle
8 Posted 19/11/2022 at 22:00:58
I still reckon Rob Halligan has made the trip (despite his denials!)
Rob Halligan
9 Posted 19/11/2022 at 22:19:48
Nah Mike. I'm sitting at home with a pint of Amstel in one hand, and a bar of Dairy Milk chocolate in the other. 🍺🍺🍺🍫🍫
Brian Murray
10 Posted 19/11/2022 at 22:50:40
Gary, Cut the head of the snake first. Usually see his moon face smirk when he gets another reprieve with the odd win
Mike Doyle
11 Posted 19/11/2022 at 23:16:29
Enjoy (if that's the word) the game, Rob. Bit late for me. I guess you'll be moving onto Chang as kick-off approaches (unless the Childwall 5Ways is still serving Higsons of course).

Danny has been quiet today. Maybe he's at the game?

I see Everton's price for the win is drifting on Betfair.

Jim Wilson
12 Posted 19/11/2022 at 23:20:49
The very definition of a friendly is Everton v Celtic.
Celtic have always been friends of Everton.

I will never forget the Celtic scarves all around Goodison when we beat Man Utd 5-0 in 1984 and the support we got from the Celtic fans in Rotterdam! Those were the days my friends!

Rob Halligan
13 Posted 19/11/2022 at 23:21:52
Another 4½ hours to kick-off, Mike, so I doubt I'll be staying up for it. If I wake up, I might put it on.

San Miguel in the 5ways for me. Higsons hasn't been served in there for years. Do you live near there?

Brian Wilkinson
14 Posted 19/11/2022 at 23:26:21
I think the Rotterdam final was more to do with Celtic being cheated out of the competition, due a bottle being thrown, in their game against Rapid Viena, and Celtic after winning the tie 3-0, they had to reply the game at OldTrafford, to which they could not repeat the 3-0 scoreline, to take them through.

After the bottle incident, Viena then said it was an object that struck one of their players, and after a further appeal to Uefa, the game was forced to be replayed.

The ones at Goodison would have been mostly Everton with Celtic half-and-half ski hats.

Perfect opportunity to start Mills and Cannon from the start, in place of Maupay and either Gordon or Gray, use them from the bench later on.

Jim Wilson
15 Posted 19/11/2022 at 23:31:19
Definitely not, Brian.

When we played Man Utd, Celtic didn't have a game that day and hundreds came down from Glasgow. And the Celtic fans did not travel to Rotterdam just for a grudge match.

Our connection with Celtic goes back years!

Brian Wilkinson
16 Posted 19/11/2022 at 23:41:48
Fair enough Jim, I thought it might have been down to the bad blood over their game having to be replayed, after already winning the tie 3-0.
Jim Wilson
17 Posted 19/11/2022 at 23:47:17
That was a factor, Brian, for sure, but Celtic fans have always had an affinity with Everton and our supporters.
Brian Wilkinson
18 Posted 20/11/2022 at 00:30:11
I think they should announce the starting 11, 3 hours before kick-off – give the UK fanbase an option of staying awake, or heading off to bed, dependent on the team selection.

Couple of youngsters to start off with, instead of a cameo last 15 minutes.

Brian Murray
19 Posted 20/11/2022 at 04:59:59
Jim @17,

I lived in Glasgow for 16 years which coincided with the Walter Smith era for us which didn't help the affinity plus I was never slow to bring up why they play and join in that Gerry Marsden shite before kick-off every game. I suppose it's mainly to show off their colours in full flow, to be honest.

I did notice them a bit in Rotterdam for the reasons given. Nearly a full week there before going to London on the Friday, I had more on my mind besides any Celtic injustice with ale flowing and the next plan was Monte Carlo after Wembley. Then it was all taken away from us by the hole-in-the-wall gang. Bastards.

Kieran Kinsella
20 Posted 20/11/2022 at 05:00:23
I'm pleased that Tom was injured. Sorry, but he has had 160 chances to prove himself and failed 159 times. So, if it takes an injury versus manager judgment to drop him for Price, then thank God – for God in terms of divine intervention. Not saying Price is good but at least we haven't seen him prove himself not to be 159 times.

In a similar vein, sad to see Keane and Mina selected versus Welch. Mina is good but glass, Keane is Tom 2.0: what do we have to learn about him that we don't already know? I'd like to see Mills and Cannon on in the second half.

Dave Lynch
21 Posted 20/11/2022 at 06:15:14
Pointless and meaningless games.

Would have been better staying at Finch Farm and putting some time in on tactics and technique.

Kieran Kinsella
22 Posted 20/11/2022 at 06:23:05
Well, we beat a low-end Champiomship team / high-end League One team on penalties.

I'd have liked to see Frank give more kids a chance versus proven failures but I guess he is more worried about keeping his job than the bigger picture. Nothing much learnt.

A 39-year-old goalie still has a bit of life in him. Gray is hit and miss as we already knew and that's about it. Hopefully for the next game, with a “win” under his belt, Frank might give some youngsters a chance versus the deadwood on the scrap pile.

Brian Murray
23 Posted 20/11/2022 at 06:28:04
When managers like Big Sam, Benitez etc come here and, besides their very average ability, they confound it even more by being cautious, there's only one outcome to their future.

Frank is not helping himself by not being brave with the youngsters instead of clinging to last season's losers. I know there's not one club who would look twice at Holgate, Mina, Davies, Doucoure, Keane, Maupay, Gray etc. Certainly not top-half teams but that's the cards we have to generate funds.

Point being it's ridiculous and suicide to just give the likes of Mills and Cannon less than half a game in a friendly when they could so easily save his job. Can't do any worse.

Colin Glassar
24 Posted 20/11/2022 at 07:31:10
Will there be an open top bus parade to celebrate our first trophy this century? Or at least a DVD?
Jim Bennings
25 Posted 20/11/2022 at 07:37:03
I wake up, check the score out of remote interest, and unsurprisingly see Everton failing to score again, lol.

Seriously, I know it was an absolutely pointless game, pointless trip, just a sunshine jolly for a bunch of slackers, but yet again we can't score a fuckin' goal, it's quite hilarious, lol.

Jim Bennings
26 Posted 20/11/2022 at 07:46:22
I think it's unfortunate but rather obvious that, if Everton don't sign at least two quality capable attacking players in January, then we are odds-on to be relegated.

We are going to require a January 2012 powered window when Moyes inspired by bringing Jelavic, Gibson, Donovan and Pienaar in to transform the team.

Gary Johnson
28 Posted 20/11/2022 at 07:53:49

- No kids at all without injury forcing one.
- At least 4 deadwood players with no future
- Injuries to crocks Mina, Doucoure & Davies
- Suicidal backpasses in tight games
- Gray flattering to deceive
- Another 5 at the back game that leads to...
- Everton NIL (as night follows day)

I'm getting to the stage now where Frank's making me miss Rafa's positivity and Sam's possession-based football. Utter sarcasm of course, but this manager is an utter disaster too.

Ben King
29 Posted 20/11/2022 at 07:59:46
We're struggling to score goals so we revert to 5 at the back again. This is becoming intolerable.

It's going to become toxic which is a shame because I like Frank a lot but he's making numerous stupid decisions on a regular basis.

Could we have tried Rondon up top with Maupay for some presence and to hold the ball up?

Did we try anything new from an offensive perspective?

It sounds like we gave up the usual number of chances and this time to Celtic… it's extremely worrying.

Eddie Dunn
30 Posted 20/11/2022 at 08:15:47
I wonder whether Mina was taken off as a precaution through tweaking something or if he has yet another full-blown injury?
It seems like the guy is finished to me.

As for Frank. He has displayed his innate conservatism (with a small "c"!).

Phillip Warrington
31 Posted 20/11/2022 at 08:18:39
Yes, we won on penalties, but they killed us in the more important aspect by playing some nice football.

Why the fuck didn't he play some more youngsters? No wonder our young players lose interest sitting on the bench watching that crap.

Rob Jones
32 Posted 20/11/2022 at 08:31:32
Instead of blooding kids, he wastes this friendly on duds who have no future.

Fucking hell, Frank, are you actually trying to destroy what's left of our goodwill?

Joe McMahon
33 Posted 20/11/2022 at 08:40:08
I'm worried the penny hasn't drop-forged Frank yet, that somehow we need to try a different formation to score goals. Celtic were put through the mincer in the Champions League and of course we can't even score against them.

Our goal-scoring has gone back to the worst days of Moyes. Sick to death of Everton being a team of zero entertainment.

Dave Abrahams
34 Posted 20/11/2022 at 08:55:13
Mina going off injured... well, surprise, surprise!!
Bobby Mallon
35 Posted 20/11/2022 at 09:32:16
I honestly despair at managers. It was an excellent chance to play more youngsters.

Also, what is this obsession with playing one striker up front?

Ray Roche
36 Posted 20/11/2022 at 09:33:22
Anthony Murphy
37 Posted 20/11/2022 at 09:43:32
I knew it'd finish 0-0.

We should be at Finch Farm right now preparing for what is an enormous game v Wolves, not pissing about on Bondi Beach and walking up the bloody Sydney Harbour Bridge.

Ian Edwards
38 Posted 20/11/2022 at 09:48:58
Not even one shot on target.

If Lampard can't sort out his dreadful tactics and formation, then he should go. Get him out now.

John Pickles
39 Posted 20/11/2022 at 09:58:49
Everton, putting the 'nil' in 'Nil Satis Nisi Optimum'.

There'll be kids growing up thinking there's actually a team in the Premier League called 'Everton Nil'.

Pat Kelly
40 Posted 20/11/2022 at 09:59:45
We win a trophy and people still complain?

It's not about scoring goals or getting shots on target. That's not Frank's way. He's now a successful, cup-winning manager. We're lucky to have him.

Michael Lynch
41 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:01:50
Like others, I cannot understand why he isn't playing some of the kids instead of the has-beens. And of course Mina gets injured.

I'm starting to wonder if Frank actually wants to be sacked so he can leave this nightmare without giving up his payoff.

Ian Edwards
42 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:06:50
Kevin Naylor
43 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:09:14

There's only seven in that line-up – what happened to the other 4?

Steve Shave
44 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:14:36
I used to love Yerry, just before the Jan window when we actually stood a chance of getting shot of him for some chump change he's fucking injured, AGAIN! It's so boring and so predictable.

I am not usually one for the sackings, it takes a lot for me to start down that path. However, the current situation does not look like improving and we are in the unusual situation of having the World Cup break where a new manager would have time to assess the squad and use the window to improve. Maybe it is time to let him go?

I will probably feel differently tomorrow but hungover and grumpy this morning, waking up to hear we didn't register a shot on target against Celtic is not what I wanted to hear. The question for me is if we let go of Frank could we keep his expensive team of coaches? Paul Clement is an experienced No 2, I am sure there are managers who would like to come in and utilise them? Maybe it wouldn't be so expensive then. If Bielsa is interested I really think we should at least have a chat.

Martin Clark
45 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:18:30
It was a really poor performance. Totally uninspiring. We were lucky not to concede and in the first half played with what appeared to be be a 541 formation that almost went to 91 formation with the midfield dropping so deep.
Price had some good touches but also some reckless and needless free kicks given away and it was the first time I’d taken my son to a game and was only entertaining when it went to penalties.

We need to stick to the 433 formation and start generating more creativity as they don’t look comfortable and are even more negative with 3 at the back.

Had a few counter attacks but was very disappointed. Would have preferred to have seen some impetus on attacking and actually had some goals in the game.

Christy Ring
46 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:22:04
I said a few weeks ago,keep Mina wrapped in cotton wool and get rid of him in January. A £120k contract for a player who probably played more games for Colombia than us. Why wasn't Godfrey in the squad, didn't he play for the u21's last week?
Pat Kelly
47 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:23:29
Didn't we read somewhere (though not necessarily true) that Everton have a break clause in Lampard's contract which could see him sacked without compensation? Presumably, that would extend to his entourage. So there'd be no loss in sacking him. He could continue his apprenticeship with some other mugs.
Paul Kernot
48 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:24:08
Just back to our digs.

Surprised nobody has mentioned this yet but some twat decided that Everton should come onto the pitch to the sound of 'You'll Never Walk Alone', for fuck's sake! We booed & jeered all the way through it.

Maybe they thought we were booing Celtic's arrival but on and on it went, all the way to the excruciating end. What a way to start a game.

Meanwhile, in the first half at least, we played exactly like we've played all season so far, trying and mostly failing to play out from the back, being pressed into mistakes, back to keeper, booting it long, losing possession. Safe, maddeningly frustrating tactics. Hardly got out of our own half for the first15 minutes.

Second half we improved somewhat but still, if Celtic were any better than us at finishing, we'd have lost that game 3-0. As it was, they missed two of their first three penalties and we stumbled over the line.

Amazing experience but my god we need to take a few risks on Wednesday night & play on the front foot.

Kevin Naylor
49 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:25:19
As night follows day, this squad is going nowhere under Frank as he hasn't got the bottle to drop the usual suspects and play some kids who just might create some chances.

I've said before that there seems to be some unwritten rule for our managers that 'thou shalt not play the kids' as Frank, Benitez et al are/were all guilty of it.

Imagine if Sir Alex Ferguson hadn't brought in his Golden Generation when he did...

John Pickles
50 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:26:01
Maybe the authorities could alter the rules just for us to make up for all past injustices. They could give us half a point if we get a shot on target, well, at least nearly on target. It would give our players something to aim for, although aiming isn't really their forte.

The fans could help out with a whip-round, get enough money together and we could buy some goalposts for Finch Farm, we'd obviously also need a volunteer to explain their purpose.

Ian Edwards
51 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:33:45
It would appear we have stopped trying to sell Gordon through the media as no one wants him and moved on to Pickford. Does the Club think we are thick?
Dave Cashen
53 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:41:22
Kieran Kinsella.

"I'm pleased Tom Davies was injuted" ???.

This right off the back of penning a piece claiming TD was responsible for costing 4 managers their jobs - A thread the author returned to 14 times !

Tom Davies has played 143 games for Everton. We have lost only 45 of them. Ok, many don't think he is good enough to take us where we want to be. Me included. But he has a vastly superior record to any of the managers he has played for. His record is superior to any of our new signings. If we have anybody on our books with better percentages, I can't think who it is.
Last season we came as close to dropping as it's possible to without actually dropping Davies was not involved. The team is currently falling down table performing abysmally. We've lost 5 out of 7 (could and should have been 6). The I've also managed to do that without him too.
Whether you rate the player or not (plenty don't) The facts. The records and simple common sense will tell you he is the least of our problems.

I haven't posted much this week. I've been enjoying the lively informed debate about a range of stuff involving people who have forgotten more than I will ever know. But, I suppose when a website opens its doors to thoughtful and informed fans, there is no way of closing them to ignorant, relentless spite from people who seem hellbent on cheapening them

Mere opinion ? Yeah of course it is.

It's not so much the malice which bothers me, I'm now used to seeing that. Its the arrogant stupidity of wishing injury on your own player.

Danny O’Neill
54 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:42:32
I was at the Rugby yesterday. I don't have much understanding of Rugby, but it was a day out watching sport.

My take on that? First I'd rather the players not at the World Cup were involved in a training camp and playing matches than reading their mobile phones and putting their feet up at Finch Farm. It will be a good team bonding exercise and chance to reflect and recharge for the second half of the season.

Most importantly, great for the dedicated Australian blues to get access and watch the team. Fantastic to see them belting out Spirit of the Blues at the end having been subject to that awful cringeworthy song at the beginning. I put the laptop on mute. I loved that Everton Down Under flag. We should get one at Goodison and ready for Bramley Moore Dock.

Glad to see Tarkowski and McNeil taking time to attend a Brunch with the fans. I hope some of you got to attend and meet them.

Tom Davies? Travels half way around the globe to get injured and fly back. I guess that's misfortune. I hope it's not too serious but on the basis they've flown him back and it's a knee injury it could be.

I know it was a friendly, so effectively a training match, but we still insist on this playing out the back when we don't have the players to do it. We are not Manchester City and do not have Pep Guardiola in charge. Doucoure at one point had acres of space if he'd have composed himself, looked up and turned. Instead, he instinctively passed it back to a centre back without even thinking about it. We invite the press.

We struggled to get out of our half in the first half a lot, but had chances. Gray; if he uses his left foot earlier, he scores. But he checks on to his right giving the defender a chance, which he took and deflected the delayed shot.

Maupay should pass one into the net on the floor, not try to be clever with the chip and Tarkowski missed a free pass. Head the ball downwards. They teach you that from 8 years old. Simple game football, complicated by players.

In terms of giving young players a chance, at various points during that match, we had Mills, Cannon, Price, McNeil, Patterson, Mykolenko, Gordon and Vinagre on the pitch. Holgate and Gray are hardly heading to draw their pensions. There was a really good recovery situation from Holgate in the 2nd half after Tarkowski unusually underestimated his jump and flicked one on for Celtic. Great anticipation, awareness and aggression from Mason.

On Price, he was lucky. That tackle could easily have warranted a red card. Vinagre looked lively; I'd like to see more of him.

I have to mention Begovic. He always fills me with confidence and commands his box and the defence. I don't know if that free kick hit the cross bar or he got a finger to it, but he had it covered. Also that was a fantastic and instinctive save from point blank range.

I never like penalties. Not a great way to win a game, not a great way to lose one. But good to see the young players stepping up and not being shy.

Final word again to the supporters. Those who follow from the land(s) down under. I hope you're enjoying the opportunity to see the blues. Also, those who travelled. Enjoy the experience and send them back ready to get the 3 points on Boxing Day.

Robert Tressell
55 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:43:32
Ian, unfortunately I think you are right. I generally expect Pickford to be with Man Utd or maybe Spurs next season. He is now our only saleable asset - and squad development probably depends on his departure (as it did this summer with the departure of Richarlison). The links are already being made to numerous goalkeepers.

It will mark the next step of a decline in quality that's been going on a while now.

Brian Harrison
56 Posted 20/11/2022 at 10:46:24
I didn't see the game but, judging from what people have said who did watch it, it was pretty much what we have watched for months and months.

I think it's getting to the stage where I don't think Frank can or wants to change his style; in which case, what is going to change to allow us to pick up enough points to stay up?

Listening to the different interviews, Frank has done in the last couple of weeks, it's as if he is saying we hoped we would not be near relegation this season but we have to accept we are. He also suggests that to expect much improvement from last season is a big ask and he also cites losing Richarlison.
Yet he doesn't seem to take any responsibility for not replacing Richarlison; let's not forget he spent £33 million on Onana, £18 million on McNeil and £15 million on Maupay. Could he not have used some of that money to have brought in a decent striker?

Amazing that Mina has picked up yet another injury. I can't see any club willing to offer any money for him anytime soon. So another, like a lot of other players, who will quite happily stay on the sidelines till the last day of his contract.

I am sure with the general consensus from those who did watch it was nothing has changed may make Moshiri act sooner than later.

What Happened to the Lampard we had from his first 2 games against Brentford in the FA Cup and Leeds in the league, where we scored 7 goals and only conceded 1? How can you go from something so positive to the negative approach we now see from him.

Eddie Dunn
57 Posted 20/11/2022 at 11:05:10
Robert- if you think we will cash-in on our goalkeeper then just wait until after the bloody world cup.
The English media are just waiting to get stuck into him. I think England will continue their recent abysmal form and there will be scapegoats like Maguire and Pickford who will cop it.
So his value could drop unless he and England do well.
I think Danny sees the positives for the whole entourage of getting away from Finch Farm for a while. If it was preseason, I'm sure the whole escapade would be far more fun for all involved.
In reality Lampard is trying to put on a brave face. He played few kids because a thumping would bring the sack that much closer. He had to avoid it. His tactics were sad to behold and now he has lost Davies and perhaps Duke. Mina is a lost cause.
I suppose he will cobble the same formation togather on wednesday hoping again to avoid defeat, so that they can limp home to start planning for Wolves.
I bet he is getting regular updates on Domenic because that lad is our only hope until January.
Danny O’Neill
58 Posted 20/11/2022 at 11:09:04
Interesting you mention the potential for Pickford being sold, Robert.

I've just commented on how Begovic gives me confidence when he plays.

Sorry to bang my Schalke drum, but if we do end up in a position of looking for a replacement, Alexander Nubel might be worth looking at. He came through their academy and had his head turned by Bayern, who took him as a potential successor to Manuel Neuer. He's on loan at Monaco until next summer. Still only 26 years old.

Danny O’Neill
59 Posted 20/11/2022 at 11:19:29
On the affiliation subject, I always felt Everton were more aligned to Celtic than Rangers, but it's not as simplistic as outsiders view it.

Liverpool and Merseyside is a much more mixed City.

Celtic sing that song, we both sing "If you know your history".

If we go back to the '80s and my memory serves me, I remember way more half-Everton, half-Celtic bobble hats with the other side more wearing half-Liverpool, half-Rangers ones.

But it was never clear-cut. My best mate and fellow Everton season ticket holder had a Rangers hat.

It got a bit turned in the '90s with the arrival of Walter Smith and Duncan Ferguson, plus the colours. But really, you can't compare or align Everton and Liverpool, Celtic and Rangers on strict lines.

That's my take.

Steavey Buckley
60 Posted 20/11/2022 at 11:30:19
The match against Celtic has confirmed that Everton can't score goals and are destined to be relegated if they can't find goalscorers.
Ian Edwards
61 Posted 20/11/2022 at 11:50:44
Steavey @60.

It's the tactics and formation.

Messi wouldn't score in that set-up.

Trevor Peers
62 Posted 20/11/2022 at 11:52:45
Pat @47,

'Everton have a break clause in Lampard's contract which could see him sacked without compensation?'

That clause doesn't kick in until Summer 2023, as I understand it, Pat. So there would be a compensation package for Frank until then, if he was sacked I guess.

You'd think in Frank's situation, he would've set the team up to attack in a friendly game against Celtic, given the pressure he's under to produce results. It just shows you how fear can melt the brain, producing the defensive stuff we played,

On the positive side, we won on penalties... whoopee!

Jerome Shields
63 Posted 20/11/2022 at 11:55:28
Absolutely essential that Everton did not get beat.

Frank needs the January transfer window to rejuvenate the squad. Some players are not interested and are not dependable.

Tony Everan
65 Posted 20/11/2022 at 11:57:48
Didn't watch but ‘no shots on target' is the stat that jumps out.

Robert, there are rumours that Chelsea are interested, probably more nonsense. But we will be likely need some cash to get a couple of quality forwards in.

Maybe Frank is after Broja again, with the incentive – a promise of him being a No 1 starter, and then some money left over to put towards signing Kudus.

Then a keeper comes in on a free or on loan, similar standard to Robin Olsen. It's going to be very difficult to do that sort of business, but it's that level of double signing that will keep Frank's career intact, hopefully see us safe and progressing again. It's a difficult task.

Whatever the targets, and it's unlikely it will be these two, we need two forwards, better than we've got, and we need the money to pay for them because they won't be in the bargain basement.

Mark Murphy
66 Posted 20/11/2022 at 11:58:00
Yay, the 27-year-long wait is over – the Kopites will have to put their flags away at last!


Danny O’Neill
67 Posted 20/11/2022 at 12:00:07
We all know we have a shortage up front. It's plagued us for years. Decades even.

I'm not getting carried away with a friendly, either way.

But let's say we drew 0-0 with Manchester United in an FA Cup Semi-Final and won 4-2 on penalties. Sound familiar? I don't think too many would be complaining.

I think Celtic came into that a bit fresher having arrived a few days earlier so were more acclimatised and over jet-lag. Also, you could argue they had more to prove and were up for it. A bit like when you play a lower league club in the cup competitions.

Eddie Dunn
68 Posted 20/11/2022 at 12:04:03
One worrying trend has been Tarkowski's regular cock-ups.
I'm beginning to wonder if he is any better than Keane and Holgate?

Watching the highlights, Celtic opened us up many times and Begovic produced some excellent saves whilst Hart was only tested at penalty time.

Gray is doing my head-in. We all had a mate in 5-a-side who always took an extra touch. Does he think there is no point trying to pass as Maupay will just sky it?

Danny O’Neill
69 Posted 20/11/2022 at 12:06:55
Eddie, my opinion is that, if you don't go on the front foot with the midfield and with forward options, it doesn't matter who is playing at the back.

They will be put under pressure and eventually make inevitable mistakes. Within reason, I don't think it's down to the players. It's the tactics.

Eddie Dunn
70 Posted 20/11/2022 at 12:21:15
Danny, yes they are exposed every game by a lack of midfield cover. Then we look at the individuals just like Gana and Onana copping flak for having to fight three opponents every game.

But Frank is even playing the same tactics out on tour. He clearly sees it as his go-to default method.

He is basically taking us down with his dogmatic approach.
Now he is losing players to injury he is already saying he will have to have a body count for the next game.

Excuses in early.

Jerome Shields
72 Posted 20/11/2022 at 12:23:26
When posters talk about formation, Frank has no formation. He has said this. His system is that Everton attack and defend as a unit, which needs players running into position, being available, supporting play, good pass completion, attacking and defending in numbers.

The formation we see is a result of players not contributing in these areas. Staying deep, not tracking back, failing to move up with the play or support it, being error-prone, failing to pass early enough and not moving into position or on time.

It is either due to lack of effort in training or not having the quality to play. Because it is that bad, it would be the same at any level. Which could point to uninterested players or players who are swinging the lead and they're only for their wages.

It is just not good enough at the level of competition that Everton play in. It has been like that even before Frank arrived.

Robert Tressell
73 Posted 20/11/2022 at 12:31:26
You're not wrong that Lampard has no formation, Jerome.

Unfortunately, it is generally the formation (and how individuals slot into the formation) that allows tesms to attack and defend as a unit.

Perhaps our lack of a discernable formation (where is Onana supposed to be playing?) means we don't attack and defend as a unit.

Clive Rogers
74 Posted 20/11/2022 at 12:36:52
We can insert these in every match review:

Maupay misses a sitter,
Mina goes off injured,
No goals scored,
No shots on goal.

Mike Doyle
75 Posted 20/11/2022 at 12:43:39
Rob #13,

I grew up in Old Swan but, as an older teenager, for most of my School friends, Childwall or Woolton Village were the convenient meeting points – hence the Fiveways, Childwall Abbey, Elephant etc we're our regular watering holes.

As students, we became more Bohemian and moved on to Lark Lane! At the time, former Blues winger Gary Jones ran one of the pubs (The Albert, I think).

I've not lived in Liverpool for 40 years – but get back once or twice each year.

Clive Rogers
76 Posted 20/11/2022 at 12:44:16
Eddie, 68, yes, Tarkowski's form is becoming a worry and Gray is Peter Beattie Mk 2.
Jim Bennings
77 Posted 20/11/2022 at 12:48:15
It's funny because I always thought when Frank got appointed we'd see something similar to the Martinez era.

I thought we'd be quite wide open and commit shit loads of men perhaps too gung-ho, a lot of entertainment but doomed to failure.

I should have realized that, when Roberto was here, we had Lukaku at his peak, Barkley playing his best football and some real sparkling of unpredictable but threatening players like Deulofeu, Lennon and Mirallas, not forgetting Stevie Naismith (what we'd do for that lad now).

But this squad looks tepid; I was naive to think we'd see attacking football really.

I don't think Frank has a plan, not with this current squad, but I hope he gets the January window at least, to give himself and us a fighting chance in the second half of the season.

It's arguably our biggest ever January transfer window coming up.

Danny O’Neill
78 Posted 20/11/2022 at 13:02:14
I'd hope he has a plan, Jim. The problem is what you highlight. He's trying to implement it with the current squad. Trying to play the way he wants to and make the players he has fit it. Doesn't work.

I think he's tried to apply the sticking plaster to the obvious. The defence.

And, apart from those two Bournemouth games, it was working. We'd become difficult to beat.

His next step is to get that midfield functioning as a unit and bring in attacking options. Because even a fully functioning midfield will struggle if there are no options in front of them.

I know I'm stating the obvious.

Michael Kenrick
79 Posted 20/11/2022 at 13:17:32
Peter Beattie Mk 2?

It gets the point across, whatever... but I just wondered, Clive, if you intended this clever portmanteau or you really wanted to say one of Peter Beagrie or James Beattie?

Mike Price
80 Posted 20/11/2022 at 13:25:16
The Mina and Davies injuries must surely signal the end for the two of them. No fees incoming, so their contracts will just run down until the summer.

We're a graveyard for players' careers but at least they all join the Everton multi-millionaires club. We are the most gullible club in the history of sports!

Lampard is a busted flush, he's useless and there's no point in giving him another window to waste more money. This is as bad as it's ever been and, unless there's a radical change, I think this is the season our fans won't be able to pull us out of it.

Tony Abrahams
81 Posted 20/11/2022 at 13:31:24
Another thing is that Everton's last two previous managers have also defended very deep, so this now seems like just another deep-rooted problem that many people would associate with what has become a very boring football club.

The only real excitement that Everton Football Club have generated in years came from the fans with their unadulterated love and desire for their club last spring.

A lot of people are now saying that Lampard will take the club down, whilst it's obvious to others that the club has been rotten to the core for many, many years, and, until Everton are sold, the downward spiral will just continue.

If this happens then our club might just have a brighter future but I would be very surprised if the years of nepotism and neglect haven't left a massive stain on the football club in general, especially when you consider that a section of the fan base actually yearn for the days when plucky little Everton became the Best of the Rest.

James Flynn
82 Posted 20/11/2022 at 13:40:52
Would welcome any comments on my question: How fast is Isaac Price?
Brendan McLaughlin
83 Posted 20/11/2022 at 13:45:39
I can't help but feel there will be no money made available for Frank to squander come January.

The Maupay signing always struck me as Frank taking a gamble with what was left of Everton's transfer warchest for the season.

Danny O’Neill
84 Posted 20/11/2022 at 13:48:34
Peter Beagrie. What a frustrating player. I can still hear myself screaming "Just cross the ball!" Okay, probably a bit more colourful that that.

James Beattie. Disappointing signing and not one I would imagine as a Moyes signing. I remember him walking across the pitch at Fulham away in front of the away end, as they do at Craven Cottage, when they come out from the corner of the ground.

He wasn't playing as he was injured, but I remember thinking to myself; he's carrying a bit of timber. Not sure we're going to get the work rate out of him or he'll be chasing corners flags anytime soon.

Jerome Shields
85 Posted 20/11/2022 at 13:50:44
Brendan #83,

Hope you are wrong, but won't be betting on it.

Frank Crewe
86 Posted 20/11/2022 at 14:01:31
Didn't score again.
Jerome Shields
87 Posted 20/11/2022 at 14:13:28
Robert #73,

A very good point. In the case of Onana, a young player playing in the Premier League for the first time, he would be needing to play in a structure. I find myself agreeing with you, Robert, particularly in Onana's case.

It would take a really seasoned professional midfielder, like Frank, to orchatrate the transition from defence to attack playing in Frank's system, without structure.

As Tony says recent Everton teams have gravitated to a defensive mode under different managers. Ancelotti even resorted to Big Sam tactics.

To a certain extent, Chelsea under various managers have had a similar midfield problem, when the enthusiasm of players has waned resulting in the manager losing the dressing room.

Quite frankly, if I was Everton manager, I would play the defensive mode tactics with these players, resorting to a set-piece attack.

Tony Everan
88 Posted 20/11/2022 at 14:15:01
Peter Beagrie for Everton:

126 games, 11 goals, 2 assists… 2 assists? – can that be right? Surely he had more than that?

Demarai Gray:

53 games, 8 goals, 4 assists.

Gray is not dynamic but is the better player and we can squeeze more out of him with a better goalscorer or if Calvert-Lewin is fit and has a proper run of games.

Danny O’Neill
89 Posted 20/11/2022 at 14:20:34
Parallels to Iwobi, Tony Everan. There's a player in Demarai Gray. We just need someone to unlock it.

I'm probably getting old and long in the tooth, but I'd rather see him play on his natural side. I think he would be more productive not having to take those extra touches.

Obviously it would help if he had options in front of him and looked up now and then, but there's a player there.

I see Mina's injury is a hamstring – confirmed. I'm guessing that's him and Everton done.

Tony Abrahams
90 Posted 20/11/2022 at 14:23:04
I remember training against Beagrie a few times, Danny, and thinking it's not happening, there's no way he's sending me for the Echo with his constant little jinking, but I have to admit, that he also sent me for the Daily Mirror at times as well!

His feint was brilliant, but he never learned how to do things early, or quicker, and I could just imagine playing centre-forward waiting for Beagrie to cross the ball.

It used to be funny watching Van Nistleroy, making near post run, after near post run, and then waving his arms in frustration, because Ronaldo wasn't ready to cross the ball.

But Ronaldo learned and went on to become one of the best players of his generation, (some might say – all time) while the finest moment of Beagrie's, Everton career must have definitely been when he went right through the front of the hotel foyer on a moped!

Tony Abrahams
91 Posted 20/11/2022 at 14:33:26
It doesn't look like anyone is answering James's question, but Price is someone who I think could do better the higher he moves up the ladder.

I heard that there were a few questions asked about him last week, from some people who watched the Under-21s lose at home to Southampton. Maybe Everton are giving him another season to develop physically before sending him out on loan because he's only a very slight kid.

Sean Kelly
92 Posted 20/11/2022 at 14:34:44
Depends on what he's driving, James.
Danny O’Neill
93 Posted 20/11/2022 at 14:35:33
Quality, Tony. That post had me giggling away to myself.

Beagrie was undoubtedly talented but frustrated by continuously going back to beat the man. Again.

And again.

And then again.

You're right, the centre-forwards must have been stood there looking at their watches waiting patiently. I'm all for waiting for the right moment, but only certain players can do that, slow the game down and pick the moment. For most, it's see it, play it. Do it early.

Barry Rathbone
94 Posted 20/11/2022 at 14:57:34
Glad I read the headline.

The ensuing comments suggest a heavy loss and the club confirming they've sold BMD to the shite to raise funds.

Colin Malone
95 Posted 20/11/2022 at 15:20:07
Same formation.

Tell you what: if Frank doesn't get two much-improved wingers in January, we are dead in the water.

Tony Abrahams
96 Posted 20/11/2022 at 15:28:35
I also think this is definitely a massive part of our problem, Colin. It's why it wouldn't bother me if we played with wingbacks at the minute because this should allow us to condense the middle of the pitch and get another player closer to what is often a very isolated centre-forward.

I know we played it at Bournemouth and were absolutely shocking but we also made eleven changes for this game and used quite a few players who are obviously not good enough. I think this is something that has been getting proved for more than a few years now.

Adrian Evans
97 Posted 20/11/2022 at 15:29:52
If he gets a pair of strikers, a decent No 9 to lead the line, a close mate playing off him, one winger. Supply the two up top from Patterson or Myolenko, or midfield.

Forget having Gordon and Gray on the pitch, just one or the other.

Goals! Goals and opposition worried by our forwards.

We can't bank on seeing a half-fit, out-of-form, out-of-sorts Calvert-Lewin. We might not even see him again.

We are relegated unless Frank sorts out our forward line, gets goals, nailed-on.

John Kavanagh
98 Posted 20/11/2022 at 15:50:33
We desperately need to get Mina, Doucoure and Keane off the books. Naysayers here say that we'll never get a fee for them. But have you seen the price of cat food lately?
Paul Washington
99 Posted 20/11/2022 at 15:55:27
I didn't watch the game, so can't really comment, but I rang my son at 06:30-ish this morning as he's gone there, he enjoyed it – but I think it might have been a Fosters-induced summary!!

Anyway, it's obvious we need players in January but can we afford it? And does it go against the financial rules?

Jim Wilson
100 Posted 20/11/2022 at 16:27:07
So worrying that Lampard keeps returning to his miserable 5 at the back experiment. Next time he uses it in the league should be his last!
Jay Harris
101 Posted 20/11/2022 at 16:28:32
I thonk Frank looks exhausted with the stress and is being ultra cautious with his 5-4-1 setup and playing so deep that we might as well just have half a pitch.
I can only surmise that he is playing this way because our passing is so poor we end up giving the ball away before it has even cleared the halfway line on most occasions relying on the ball over the top to the space for MAupay or Gray to run onto and then waste the chance because they both need numerous chances before converting one.

We cant keep on blaming the players because Frank has brought a number of these players to the club e.g. Tarkowski looked great when he first came but is now starting to imitate Michael KEane with some of his mistakes. Doucoure was excellent at the start of last season but now looks half a yard and half a brain short.

Anthony Gordon looked brilliant last season and looks more like a championship player this season.

There is definitely a problem somewhere at the club which changing managers, fitness staff and players doesnt resolve.

I like Frank but always felt we needed more of a Benitez/ type (I know) who was strong willed enough to run the club from top to bottom maybe more a modern day Brian Clough or Ferguson but finding them is a different matter.

All I know is if we keep playing this negative shit we are going to be in serious trouble because all we are doing is inviting pressure and ruining the confidence of good defenders and deteriorating team spirit.

On a more positive note I thought Price did quite well overall and once he gets up to pace could save us a few bob.

Brian Wilkinson
103 Posted 20/11/2022 at 16:33:19
2 games to try and tweak the team, to try something different, but yet again the same predictable starting 11 with only Price getting a start, through a forced change, through injury, the same usual subs coming on, before the two youngsters 15 minute cameo appearance.

The defence picks itself, no problems there, the midfield so so, final third letting us down, over and over again.

So why not start with our strong defence, which we have, but tweak further up field a little, start with price again, put either Gordon or Gray on the bench, in a switch for Mills, same with Maupay, switch him for Cannon, and let those three start a game for a change, if it is not working, you can always then put Gordon or Maupay on, or even leave cannon on, and try a two man forward line midway through the second half, by putting Maupay on, alongside Cannon.

Surely on Wednesday he has to give that a try, no use keep giving the youngsters, the last 10 minutes or so, get them in from the start, when everyone is fresh.

Jay Harris
104 Posted 20/11/2022 at 17:15:04

IMO he has got to start doing away with this 5 at the back nonesense and do away with the useless wingers.

Go 4-4-2 (away from home) with Vinagre and Coleman coming in for McNeill and Gordon and playing Gray and Maupay (or Cannon) up front with Calvert-Lewin replacing Maupay when fit as it looks like there won't be any spending in January.

Ian Riley
105 Posted 20/11/2022 at 17:32:14
Total waste of time. Frank could have tried something different tactically and selection. Anyway we won! Thank goodness we played Celtic. A Championship side with half-decent strikers would have put a couple past us.

We can't score! Yes, it's a fact! Unless Frank realises to score we must enter the opposition penalty area to have half a chance of scoring!

The mentality needs changing and tactics to score goals before strikers are brought in. Hopefully the penny will drop soon!!

Colin Glassar
106 Posted 20/11/2022 at 18:12:56
Are these weak, spineless, pathetic performances really the fault of the manager?

How many managers have we had since the ginger fella left?

After each and every manager has been given the boot, one or two players come out with the same old tripe, ie, “It wasn't the gaffer's fault”, “We need to look at ourselves first”, “We let ourselves and the fans down” etc, etc, etc…..

There is something rotten and putrid at Everton and it's from the top down. Only the arrival of a filthy rich fucker who sacks everyone from the board down to the tea lady and replaces them with hard-nosed professionals will we be able to turn this sinking ship around. Even if it means being relegated to League One, as long as we can cleanse ourselves of these leeches, we will never amount to anything.

Let us walk into the desert, if need be, and come out on the other side born anew. This useless, pathetic excuse for a football club needs a revolution; otherwise, we are royally fucked and damned for eternal mediocrity.

ps: Changing the manager with these cents won't change anything.

Joe McMahon
107 Posted 20/11/2022 at 18:24:51
Collin @106, absolutely correct-amundo!
Brian Murray
108 Posted 20/11/2022 at 18:39:11
Colin. Changing the manager with these cents! Are you struggling with the letter u?

All true, by the way, and if we have to pay the ultimate price, so be it. No one will leave or be forced to leave otherwise. They / he just hides behind the latest new Stadium feelgood update or a storming once-a-month win under the lights.

Brian Murray
109 Posted 20/11/2022 at 18:41:10
Oh and call it boring or rabid or monotonous all you want people.

While I've got a pulse, I won't stop wanting better and caring. Try as I might...

Jim Wilson
110 Posted 20/11/2022 at 18:45:44
Jay Harris @ 104,

I couldn't agree more. That is exactly what I think we should do.

Brendan McLaughlin
111 Posted 20/11/2022 at 18:45:50
Colin #106

Almost Billbical there...

Andy Crooks
112 Posted 20/11/2022 at 18:51:32
Colin, getting rid of the manager is always the easy way. We can't afford to face the alternative. We have a squad of limited, mentally weak players. No club with ambition would touch them with a bargepole.

Frank seems to be tactically out of his depth. Nor, sadly, does he appear to have what it takes to install a backbone in the cowards he coaches.

They are cowardly in their collective fear of trying to be bold, to risk the displeasure of fans, to stop hiding, to have a shot at goal rather than passing sideways out of fear. To look to receive the ball and berate their team mates who don't provide it.

I don't think it needs Pep; it sure needs braver than Frank.

Brian Murray
113 Posted 20/11/2022 at 18:57:31

We had arguably one of the best managers about but even he couldn't dig out the mentality, even losing to Liverpool's kids.

Proper root and branch needed. Not a token Fan Advisory Board with that idiot (Jaz Bal) saying he's happy with the Everton Board of Directors.

Tony Everan
114 Posted 20/11/2022 at 19:34:05
Colin get the ad in the FT tomorrow.

“Wanted – Filthy Rich Fucker, must be prepared to sack amateurish Tea Lady, and others prepared to accept weak, tepid tea.”

Bill Gall
115 Posted 20/11/2022 at 19:56:06
I can't understand some of the comments on here or what they expected.

The game started with two players unavailable for our normal defense, Coady and Pickford, so the normal replacements were brought in: Mina and Begovic.

In our normal midfield we were without Iwobi, Onana, and Gueye, so Lampard decided to go with Doucouré, Price and Gray, with Keane acting as coverage for Price, and up front Gordon and Maupay.

Celtic had 10 players + Jota who started or came on as subs in the Scottish Cup Final, so they were not a poor side to play after a couple of days travel.

It sounds like, if we would have played most of the younger players and lost that would have been okay, until it happened.

The way Everton are playing, I don't care how they win – a win is a win and I hope it breeds more.

Brian Wilkinson
116 Posted 20/11/2022 at 20:46:38
That's the problem, Bill, we do not play the youngsters, so we will never know if we would have lost.

No one is saying throw 11 kids in, but surely trying a couple of them has to be a Plan B to at least try.

Last season, Gordon was one of our better performers, he was a youngster given a chance, he took it and has been in the team ever since.

Yesterday, Price was given a game, due to Davies picking up a knock and by all accounts he had a decent game.

Bearing in mind, it was our previous manager that gave Gordon a chance, what other youngster has been given a chance, apart from rare appearances, towards the end of a game where we are already dead and buried.

Surely it is at least worth having a look at a couple of the other youngsters out there, give them a start on Wednesday. If like you say we are losing, then replace them with subs.

But starting the almost predictable 11, then bringing on three certs to get a game from the bench, before finally throwing the last two on as late subs, is not working.

For once in a meaningless game apart from a PR billing, give Mills and Cannon a bloody start. Instead of coming on late, when the rest of the team is goosed, change it and mix it a bit.

Paul Birmingham
117 Posted 20/11/2022 at 20:47:34
A win on penalties is a win.

With the start of the World Cup, let's see if Everton are already scouting certain players in the tournament, and will they still be following other players not at the World Cup who, with the 5-6 week break, will mean plenty of good time to try and nail a couple of goal scorers.

It's going to be a key period in this season.

The goal drought must be fixed and also the recurring poor fitness of several players who it's predictable will get injured must be resolved by one way or another.

Derek Thomas
118 Posted 20/11/2022 at 21:15:42
Jerome @63:

Your comment hints that there are players who Are Interested and Do care.

John Raftery
119 Posted 20/11/2022 at 21:33:15
Brian (56) I think the answer to the question in your last paragraph is that Brentford and Leeds were very weak in those matches. Brentford were happy to sacrifice the cup in order to secure their league position. Leeds were in the death throes of Bielsa’s tenure.

I was at the game yesterday. There was very little to inspire hope of an improvement when we return. That said, we need to make some allowance for the conditions. It was baking hot with a gusty wind blowing across the pitch. Both teams struggled to weight their crosses accordingly. In the circumstances building attacking moves from the back was almost impossible.

The positives included Price who showed some potential in midfield. He has some pace and energy and hopefully will benefit from yesterday’s experience. Begovic again showed he is a reliable cover in goal. Michael Keane was not the worst player on the pitch. I assume he will replace Coady on Boxing Day. Patterson and Mykolenko were decent. And for what it’s worth we won a penalty competition.

I see the stadium was just over half full. Built for athletics it is obviously not suitable for football. Behind the goal it seemed like the pitch was 100 yards away. It was surprising to see quite a few people wearing Manchester United shirts and even more so some Liverpool and even Rangers tops. There were no issues between the fans. Everyone enjoyed a good day out discovering there better beers in Sydney than the awful Fosters. The organisation of the transport with free train travel to and from the venue was excellent.

Bill Gall
120 Posted 20/11/2022 at 21:41:00
Sure Brian give the youngsters a chance in the next game but I just could not see it happening this game, with a trophy on the line against the Scottish league leaders who so far regardless of what league they are in have scored 50 with only 13 against won their last 6 games.
I imagine Lampard did not want the youngsters to get a really heavy defeat and most of this trip is just gaining experience on how to represent Everton abroad on and off the pitch, and even if some of them don't get a game its still a learning experience..
Jay Harris
121 Posted 20/11/2022 at 22:46:31
Bill it wasnt about who was available it was the awful tactics of putting 11 men behind the ball with 9 of them hardly moving forward and consequently never finding a colleague with a pass because all the play was in our half.

BTW Paul, for me a game needs to be won in normal playing time not some lottery of penalty kicks.

The worrying thing is the worst players on the pitch were McNeill and Maupay, our latest recruits!!

Derek Knox
122 Posted 21/11/2022 at 00:35:09
Rob @ 9, You'll never get down to your ' fighting weight ' on that diet, or ever be like that other great Evertonian, Sylvester Stallone ! 🤔😜🤷‍♂️😂💙

Paul @ 3 " Not arsed. Just hope we come back against wolves and win." Not like you to be negative mate. 😜🤔

What was it Jim Royle used to say ?

41,000 Attendance ? Doesn't say how many fell asleep, or left before the final whistle, after a 0-0 Draw.

Colin Malone
123 Posted 21/11/2022 at 00:39:06
Colin # 106
IMHO you talk shite.
Don't blame the owner who gave managers £ millions to spend.
When it happened, you and me wanted success straight way.
So we give Silva no time at all, we wanted success yesterday.
I wanted Silva.
I wanted Martinez.
I wanted Koemans.
We where so enriched with £millions, we, the fans where at fault big time.
Even now, After all I've said above, I want Frank out.
It's a funny old game.
And by the way Colin, It's nothing personal, just strictly business.
Larry O'Hara
124 Posted 21/11/2022 at 00:50:48
Colin (123), you lament Silva not being given a chance but want to dump Lampard? Hardly logical is it?
Derek Knox
125 Posted 21/11/2022 at 01:10:01
Colin @ 123, while I agree with some of your sentiments, ie, blaming Moshiri when you have the biggest charlatan of them all cowering away in the background, I don't however see how any blame can be apportioned to the fans. We had no say in who was hired either as Manager or Player.

Possibly lack of success or any signs of it with negative team selections etc may have exacerbated sackings. Fans, like many who travel to every away match, have been starved of success for far too long, or entertainment, yet paying week in, week out to support a bunch of highly paid prima donnas who don't give a shit (not all by the way but most) so frustration is perfectly plausible, but only one person has brought Everton down to this level. A Maggot called Kenwright.

Colin Malone
126 Posted 21/11/2022 at 01:46:49
Larry # 124.

Lampard came in as an apprentice at manager, who's only knowledge of tactics is the Chelsea way formation. Robben and Pedro on the wing and others, if that doesn't work, the Russian will give a blank cheque to sort it out.

We haven't got the money or the players to play Franks one and only way. But he still insists in playing this way, why??

Derek # 125.

I don't give a fuck what happens upstairs. As I said, With Usmanov money, we wanted success yesterday. That meant the departures of Silva, Koemans, Martinez.

Dan Murphy
127 Posted 21/11/2022 at 02:00:45
Great day out among fellow toffees. 1000s of Evertonians celebrating the penalties like mad. We have great loyal supporters. Sorry grizzlers but Keane and Holgate were good. Patterson kept jota in his pocket. He gave a funny little grunt when he scored his pen. Frank had a chuckle over it. We'll need to do better to stay up mind.
Steve Brown
128 Posted 21/11/2022 at 05:09:17
Colin @ 123, funny as I thought it was your namesake Colin @ 106 talking sense and you talking shite.

Blaming the fans rather than the hierarchy. Honestly.

Kieran Kinsella
129 Posted 21/11/2022 at 05:34:30
Steve 128

It’s amazing isn’t it. The team hasn’t won anything in 28 years and it’s the fault of the mugs who spend a fortune to show up every week and cheer the team on. Like wtf. Most teams wouldn’t be selling out a 40,000 stadium after a generation of failure but somehow we have people blaming the diehard irrational loyalists for the failures of the team. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the fans be they happy or mad have zero effect on the team performance unless we have mentally weak fiends who can’t focus on the job. Even then, bizarrely you get plenty of fans with the patience of a saint who somehow find it in their hearts to applaud serial losers before each game. So yeah, let’s blame the fans. FFS Colin must be a plant

Jim Robinson
130 Posted 21/11/2022 at 05:46:26
Cheers to Danny O'Neill for acknowledging the support of us blues exiled to the antipodes. It was fantastic to watch a game at 3 in the afternoon instead of 3 in the morning. I've not long got home having flown down from Brisbane with my daughter and grandson yesterday. The game was originally scheduled for an 8:15pm kick off but was changed last weekend to 2:45pm hence the reason we booked to stay overnight and flew back on Monday.

We met a lovely family of 5, on the platform at Mascot station, who had come over from Christchurch NZ so their youngsters could see the Toffees live. At Central Station we took a detour to the pub across the road taken over for the day by Everton Australia Supporters club. We met more terrific fans and I really believe we have the best supporters in the world even if our club is currently struggling with the weight of expectations.

The train out to Olympic Park was shared by both sets of supporters and we sang our relevant versions of "It's a Grand Old Team" along with "Spirit of the Blues" of course.

I think many of us Blues were unaware that The Hoops also share that 'orrible dirge with the RS so were shocked when they played it as the teams came out. I'm pleased to report I think the reception we gave it caused the stadium to crank the amp in an effort to drown us out. To be fair they did reemerge after half time to Z Cars.

As for the game, the first half was pretty dire, much like Bournemouth last week. No press in mid field so the full backs end up alongside the 3 centrebacks and the wingers drop back and play outside the two holding mid fielders in what looks like a 5 4 1 formation. The one guy anywhere near the halfway line is our diddy forward who has no chance of holding the ball until someone can get close to him. I'm not sure if Frank designs it to be so or the opposition force us into playing this style. He could certainly ditch the three at the back set up if he feels obliged. I thought our football improved marginally in the second half although we created our best chance in the first half when Maupay should have scored, although it did take a nasty bobble just as he hit it.

Celtic were definitely up for it, having been turned over by Sydney Wanderers last Wednesday. They'd had a few more days acclimatization and have a campaign in the Champions League this season under their belt. It was as hot as hades in the stadium, the left side of my nose will be pink for a week, and there was a gale force wind swirling around the pitch. So 0-0 and a win on penalties isn't the worst result.

Isaac Price played the whole game and didn't look out of place. Mills and Cannon came on late but didn't get much opportunity to show what they can do although both stepped up to take a penalty so fair play to them for that. The squad was missing Pickford, Onana, Cody and Gueye on world cup duty. I believe Coleman and Iwobi didn't travel, reason unknown. I'm not sure if Rondon is here or not and I'm guessing Calvert-Lewin stayed home for treatment. Davies has gone back for treatment to an injury he picked up in training ( I often wonder when they pick up these things in training why they don't put them down quick before they do some damage - grandad humour ). All in all it was a bit of a cobbled together team and as I said the conditions were far from ideal.

On Wednesday it's our turn to face Western Sydney Wanderers. After yesterday's win hopefully Frank will see it as a free hit and an opportunity to experiment a little bit with his formation and team selection. Up until now I've been in the camp to keep Frank but if he's going to be as intransigent with his formations and team selections as Martinez and Silva then I'm afraid maybe's he's not the guy to turn things around.

Finally a well done to everyone in the touring party, especially the players, for the top job they are doing in promoting the club in Oz.

Kieran Kinsella
131 Posted 21/11/2022 at 05:50:35
Jim Robinson

I have to ask, are you the Jim Robinson from Neighbours?

Darren Hind
132 Posted 21/11/2022 at 05:51:10
I wish people would stop excusing the managers by claiming the same players have let them all down.

There is a slot on this very website which they can refer to. Simply go to the top leftish of the home page and click on PLAYERS.

These managers have gone through a staggering amount of players. They've all bought, They've all sold. They've all left players they don't fancy sitting in the stands. The only thing these managers have in common is their fondness of the Zombie stuff.


"Tom Davies only been on the losing side in 45 of his 143 appearances"... Are you sure ? Reading the comments on here down the years I was certain we had lost every single one of them.

You would have thought a record like that at a club performing like ours would earn serious merit ....You'd have thought.

Stop wracking your brains lad. Tom Davies is singled out among the sea of dross for one reason and one reason only. He was born in the wrong City for many Evertonian's. Young Gordon's next. in fact that as already started. The kid plays well enough to attract the interest of several of big clubs and within weeks, he is being hated upon because he is too big for his boots. Then they wonder why is head has gone and he is charging around like the angriest man in football.


Kenwright has done a lot of damage at this club, but if you, or anybody else, thinks he is the only person to have brought Everton down to this level. You just haven't been paying attention

Kieran Kinsella
133 Posted 21/11/2022 at 06:33:16

Holgate/Davies/Keane have been here under half a dozen managers and they’ve been shite under them all. Yeah others have come and gone but the Allans, James etc had notable high points along the way unlike these perennial losers.

Sean Roe
134 Posted 21/11/2022 at 06:47:21
Clive @ 74,

And in every match preview we can insert

'' This lot will beat us, they're everything we're not''

Derek Thomas
135 Posted 21/11/2022 at 07:00:57
The occasion was great... as were both sets of fans. The game itself was, from our point of view, seriously ordinary.

Celtic had the greater amount of possession – 60/40 wouldn't surprise me – but for the most part did nothing too deadly with it; what did get through, Begovic dealt with well.

Sideways, backwards and expensive beer were the winners on the day.

Oh and Maupay’s one-on-one was woeful, like Davies's attempt last week... Of all the options, the one he picked was probably the worst one as he was much too close to the keeper – though, to be fair, Hart stood up large – which is his job.

Very poor decision making.

Boxing Day will be a real make-or-break game.

Danny O’Neill
136 Posted 21/11/2022 at 08:20:32
Kieran, I think you've described me and many others. I'd categorise myself as mad with a hint of happiness, irrational loyalist and I'd add misguided optimist to the mix. My family members have other opinions and stronger words.

I guess ultimately, I might just be plain mad!!

John Raftery @119, yes, built for the Sydney Olympics. Similar to the London Stadium at West Ham. Felt like I was 100 yards away from the pitch.

Brian @116, I agree, I don't think anyone is calling to start with 11 x 16 year olds. In fairness, we did have a lot of young players on the pitch, including 3 teenagers, as I said earlier.

In fact we have a healthy smattering of young players under the age of 25 throughout the squad now. If I stretched that to 26, you could throw Gray & Iwobi into the mix.

The experience is where you'd expect it; central defenders. Gueye and Pickford. Although he is relatively young for a keeper and has his best years ahead of him in theory.

I almost forgot Rondon in the "experienced" group.

I'd like to see more of Mills in the next match, as he has impressed me for the U23s (or is it now U21s?). Likewise, Price looked impressive, although he could have walked by the way, but nothing wrong with a bit of aggression. Just channel it. I didn't really see enough of Cannon. Hopefully they'll feature again on Wednesday.

The thing with young players, is we need to be patient with them. They will make mistakes. They will have inevitable dips in form. Let them do that and develop rather than write them off after one or two matches.

We always want our own to live the dream that we all wanted as kids. But personally, I don't care for where any player comes from as long as they help Everton compete and ultimately, succeed.

Jim @130 and Derek, yes, I'll reiterate, it was great to see the fans at the end enjoying the occasion. Also, the fact that, just like at Goodison and up and down the country every week, seeing the number of young supporters in attendance at Sydney. It may not have been the best performance, but hopefully the occasion and atmosphere has hooked them. Keep it going Wednesday!

And we give them something real to cheer about soon.

Jim Robinson
137 Posted 21/11/2022 at 08:25:28

Sadly I'm not the fellow from Neighbours. I have no acting talent whatsoever and my bank balance reflects this fact.

Also, my wife claims never to have met Dustin Hoffman but she does get a funny look in her eye when she watches The Graduate.

Steve Shave
138 Posted 21/11/2022 at 09:06:30
Some interesting comments above regarding players we need to get in when the window opens. Whilst that is clearly the need for all to see I can't help but feel frustrated that Maupay and McNeil haven't delivered. That money could have been used for more effectual players.

I think we will have to be very canny again and that is harder in Jan. Some sources suggestion Sancho on loan, I would take that in a heartbeat but can't see them letting him go somehow. It's the goalscoring no 9 that is going to need money thrown at it, we can't afford a proven one so it's time for Thelwell to pull a bit of magic out of the hat. MLS? Belgium? Holland? Scandinavia?

I've been saying it for a while but if we only have enough to sign one player it needs to be someone who can play as a 9 AND on the wings. Not an easy profile to find in Jan that's for sure.

Darren Hind
139 Posted 21/11/2022 at 09:24:22
Ah the Brazilian Peter Reid...

I forgot about him. Mind you so did the managers and the rest of Europe.

"Highlights"? I heard they had to replace the seats at the Old Lady when he left because the edges had been worn down by all those overexcited fans every time he got the ball – Must have been the pace, the trickery and all those goals he scored... and he is of course Brazilian.

Personally, I still can't get over the team's record when Tom Davies has played. Very confusing.... for some.

Jon Harding
140 Posted 21/11/2022 at 11:18:09
Thanks for your "I was there" match report, Jim Robinson.
I appreciated your "hot as haedes" comment and The Graduate reference made me think for a second then laugh out loud - most unusual for anything connected with EFC presently.
And fancy the football authorities in Australia rearranging a match time at short notice with no thought for the travelling supporters. That would never happen over here nor at a Word Cup!
Brian Wilkinson
141 Posted 21/11/2022 at 12:25:12
Very impressive stats for Tom Davies with Everton losing only 43 games when he has started so must be pulling trees up, with Everton winning 61 of those games

Well when you look at the bigger picture, in the 143 appearances stats as follows.

Goals 6

Shots on target 17

Shooting accuracy 22%

Assists 5

Yellow cards 28

Fouls 148

Tackle success 60%

Cross accuracy 23%

Big chances created 7

Put it alongside Iwobi stats who had a awful first season or so and this is Iwobi stats, who plays in a simular role to Davies

Everton have lost just 71 in games Iwobi had played, premier league games only, in 198 appearances

Goals 16

Shots on target 77

Shooting accuracy 37%

Assists 25

Yellow cards 4

Fouls 77

Big chances created 34

Stats can be misleading, I know what I see on a pitch, when I go to watch a game, and it is certainly not Davies de Zico, will give him credit has certainly does try, but simply not good enough, he is not alone in that camp, few others need shifting out as well.

You certainly cannot put Davies ahead of Iwobi starting.

Tom Davies big weakness is giving away far too many needless free kicks, if he could work on that, then there is certainly room for improvement.

Christy Ring
142 Posted 21/11/2022 at 13:34:23
In my opinion, Davies deserves his place in the squad, his workrate is better than Doucoure, who has been very poor this season. The problem is, with little game time, it's hard to establish yourself.
Brian Wilkinson
143 Posted 21/11/2022 at 13:57:41
Iran have similar stats to Everton against England, could they get a shot on target second half, stay tuned.
Colin Malone
144 Posted 21/11/2022 at 14:03:57
Steve # 128.
Fair comment.

Colin # 106.
Sorry Colin. What I should have said, I disagree. Apologies.

Brian Wilkinson
145 Posted 21/11/2022 at 14:36:32
Yup Iran now on the scoresheet.
Darren Hind
146 Posted 21/11/2022 at 16:11:39

You say look at the bigger picture, but you are not seeing it.

All these managers have not selected Davies because of his ball skills, his vision, his speed or even his tackling skills. They trust him because he is disciplined. He holds his position. As the official records would indicate, we are very much harder to beat with him in the side.

Yes, he's error-strewn, slow and really quite weak for an athlete, but we have spent about half a billion quid on midfield players and not one of them has had the word "shape" in his vocabulary. That's why they have all been binned off. They may have been much more talented, but they all kept losing.

Thats the bigger picture.

Brian Wilkinson
147 Posted 21/11/2022 at 17:09:31
Am I reading this right Darren, you say, he's not selected for his ball skills, his vision, his speed, or his tackling, you also state he is error strewn, slow and quite weak for an athlete, but he holds his position.

We can put a training cone on the pitch, that will have the same effect you stated.

Kieran Kinsella
148 Posted 21/11/2022 at 17:22:31

That explains why he wanted Dunc as the manager based on his experience placing cones on the field.

Darren Hind
149 Posted 21/11/2022 at 18:25:35

Cracking idea. We shouldnt bother buying any more midfield players. we should just pay 20 quid for a traffic cone and watch it go through 64% of the games unbeaten

Anybody who doesnt understand lateral movement, good positioning and a shape which sends opposition the other way, or blocks their route is probably better off using stats.

I guess its then up to them to try to figure out why the stats don't correspond with the records and facts

James Flynn
150 Posted 21/11/2022 at 19:37:24
Mina and Doucoure will be off the books presently.

With both needing a paycheck come 1 July, I'd think their agents are out and about finding them a club. I can see them both leaving in January.

Keane turns 30 in January and has 2 more seasons after this one at 65K per week. He's a better CB than Holgate and Godfrey. Easy.

Both of whom are also signed thru 2025. Incredibly, Godfrey on somewhere between 70-75K per week.

Matthew Williams
151 Posted 21/11/2022 at 20:28:24
Typical Blues... we finally win a game in a Mickey Mouse tournament down under, but we still failed to score in the actual game itself! Sigh.

Only shit teams win penalty shootouts like our lovely neighbours. As you all know, the last four finals we actually won we did the job in 90 mins.

Unless we find a decent striker who hits the ground running, then we'll still struggle methinks and Lampard will be sacked too!

Jerome Shields
153 Posted 22/11/2022 at 08:33:25
Derek #118,

Some players are interested and do care. But they are at the mercy of those that don't.

Danny O’Neill
154 Posted 22/11/2022 at 09:29:43

A few of us said it the past couple of weeks and it was mentioned on Lyndon's latest podcast by the panel, but you can see cracks appearing in the team and squad.

Not healthy, but could also be a good thing. Contradiction in terms, but sometimes if standards aren't there, something needs saying.

Dave Abrahams
155 Posted 22/11/2022 at 09:48:22
James (150),

You could be right about Mina and Doucoure getting unloaded in January because they'll need a new club and wages after next July, that was my thinking as well.

But on another Everton website a poster said they will not get the wages off a new club that they are getting at Everton now and they will find it easier next summer, as free agents, to get a very good signing on fee and decent wages which won't be as good as they are being paid now.

I hope they both go in January but can see them hanging on to what they've got and saying goodbye, with a smile, next summer.

Brian Harrison
156 Posted 22/11/2022 at 09:53:40
Danny 154,

There is nothing wrong with a healthy debate amongst the players. Coady said after the poor performance against Newcastle that the players stayed in the dressing room for quite a while discussing what needed changing.

I thought the following game against Palace showed far more attacking intent than we had in any of our previous games, and scoring 3 goals showed that we can score if we play the right way.

But unfortunately that was a one-off and we quickly reverted to a more cautious approach in the following games. We even go and play a friendly against Celtic and yet another game with no shots on target.

So this is now a real problem, because this style or system isn't producing shots on goal yet, for some reason, Frank seems loathe to change his style to help rectify the problem.

His transfer dealings haven't been a success and our attacking options don't have a record of scoring goals, and the only one with a decent goal-scoring record has spent more time on the treatment table than the pitch.

I also think it's worrying when a player keeps picking up injuries, as you can't bring any stability to a side if your main striker isn't available.

Frank is now quoted as saying he will be looking to bring in a couple of forwards in January. When Richarlison was sold, that should have been his main priority – not buying 4 midfield players.

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