Manchester City 2 - 0 Everton

Everton had Amadou Onana back in the squad for this weekend’s trip to the Etihad Stadium to face reigning champions and treble winners, Manchester City, and held out extremely well for the first 70 minutes before Haaland struck.

Onana was fit enough for a place on the bench, with Patterson and Beto, while Godfrey and Calvert-Lewin are preferred by Sean Dyche to start this one at The Etihad. The manager himself had to watch from the stands, having three yellow cards for protesting just some of the atrocious refereeing decisions Everton have had to stomach this season.

The home side kicked off, with Branthwaite exuberantly jumping on McNeil to try and attain competitive elevation against Haaland.  Everton almost broke up City's first attack until Calvert-Lewin gave them the ball back and they won a corner that Pickford punched clear. 

City soon adopted their mind-numbing triangular passing possession game but Everton broke forward with a great diagonal ball to Mykolenko, and a cross came in, flying high over Calvert-Lewin. But the ball was worked to McNeil who played Godfrey in on Ederson, the collision necessitating some treatment.   

Everton tried the high press on City playing out, which was rather effective in slowing their advance. Branthwaite's unnecessary ball back to Pickford saw his hoof knocked down and Gana drawn into his first poor tackle. But Everton were doing a good job of keeping up the pressure until Calvert-Lewin decided to try a ridiculously feeble lob over Ederson that wasn't even on target. 

After 15 minutes, City had only gotten forward once, their second foray also getting pushed back into their own half again, so they resorted to the ball over the top, which Everton thwarted until they all-too-typically lost the ball from their own advanced throw-in.   

Article continues below video content

But still City had trouble getting near Everton's penalty area, Godfrey doing well to stop Doku. Foden's attempted shot from 20 yards was well blocked, and Tarkowski was next to tackle Foden superbly. A rare advanced touch for Haaland was immediately stifled but Everton again lost the ball in an advanced position and had to retreat.

Doku finally got past Godfrey but his low cross was cleared by Branthwaite. Dias should have been carded for impeding Calvert-Lewin, who headed McNeil's free-kick harmlessly to Ederson. 

Doku again got past Godfrey but Haaland could only head well over coming in late around the back. Everton continued to play a pretty effective containment game without making much of the rare moments when they had the ball. Young tried to feed Calvert-Lewin forward but the Everton man was too slow for his City marker.

Then City came forward a lot more quickly and won a corner that was well defended and eventually cleared, but they came back through Doku, who was getting a little closer each time. Everton turned over possession and went to counter but Calvert-Lewin played a hopeless sideways ball directly out of play and City went on to have their most threatening attack so far.  

But the Pinks defence held firm once again and even got the ball upfield for McNeil to present a difficult pass through to Calvert-Lewin that was well beyond his skill set to control.

Pickford risked it all to reach a ball for Nunes in the outer corner of his area, and was able to release McNeil down the left who was fully expecting Calvert-Lewin to be on the end of his excellent cross but our No 9 had started his run way too late. 

However, the ball came around to Harrison but he lashed a possible chance way beyond the far angle of Ederson's goal. More very solid albeit mostly defensive play from Everton continued to thwart City, but still without using what little ball they had to any meaningful effect. 

Nunes got free down the right but Branthwaite had the full measure of him. City tried the other side, through Doku and Ake, but Garner cleared it away. Mykolenko was unfortunate to be drawn in to foul Foden on the corner of the Everton area, the free-kick was met by Akanji but beyond the far post and gathered by Pickford.  

Alvarez picked Godfrey's pocket but could not find Akanji as 3 minutes were added before the break. City probed around and eventually, Stones forced a corner off Branthwaite that was worked into a very dangerous chance for Akanji to hit Tarkowski on his upper arm but well tucked in and no penalty.

Everton endured a couple more corners and went in all square with the defensive side of their gameplan very successfully stifling the City superstars.

Everton got forward from McNeil's restart, Calvert-Lewin rolling a weak shot from distance wide of Ederson's goal. City seemed to have a little bit more drive than in the first half, but still could not get past Tarkowski.  Alvarez shot miles wide. 

Doku got past Godfrey again and crossed with power but it was eventually gathered by Pickford, with Godfrey needing some treatment. Gana got a card for his late block on Foden as Godfrey went down again, in trouble with some sickness bug, Coleman on in his place. 

Everton defended the free-kick well as Pep Guardiola brought on Walker and De Bruyne. 

Everton worked the ball forward but Coleman's cross was too close to Dias. At the other end, Branthwaite stalled Alvarez superbly as the hour-mark passed with no goals scored or conceded. 

But City's best attack needed McNeil to sweep the cross behind with Walker lurking. A corner and all hands on deck, Calvert-Lewin heading the second ball clear, with Walker then fouling McNeil.

Doku was given too much space by Coleman, and City won a corner but Garner stopped it reaching Foden. De Bruyne tried a more direct approach to breaking Everton down but it was blocked away. 

Tarkowski was caught by De Bruyne but recovered quickly and City reformed again to stage the next foray, Rori firing high over the bar with McNeil floored by Stones. 

De Bruyne set off on a very speedy run but Garner's tackle at pace was top class. Still they came forward, winning a corner that was defended behind as it seemed to come off Calvert-Lewin.  The next one eventually fell nicely for Haaland who fairly drilled it through the bodies and off Pickford into the Everton net. Resistance is Futile. 

It was down to Everton to play chase the shadows as City now passed it around almost at will, having finally secured the breakthrough they needed as more subs were made with less than 15 minutes left. 

Everton tried to mount something of an attack but the Coleman cross didn't reach Beto. Coleman did better this time to stop Doku getting around him. Onana found Beto who was a mile offside and still couldn't score. 

Branthwaite had to stop Haaland advancing down the wing. Good work by Garner saw him try to set up Beto but Ederson was out very quickly. Everton advanced and tried to create something on the right but eventually lost the ball and City moved it quickly through De Bruyne to Haaland, who brushed Branthwaite aside and drove easily past Pickford for the second killer goal. 

Resistance is indeed futile. But Everton given 10 minutes of added time to turn it around. Beto started it with a great turn and finish… but he had strayed 2 yards offside. At the other end, Foden's shot was easily saved by Pickford.

Garner chased after Grealish and fouled him for a late yellow card. De Bruyne got behind the lines and lobbed Pickford but only onto the roof of the net as the final whistle went.

Manchester City: Ederson, Akanji (57' Walker), Dias, Stones, Ake, Rodri, Foden, Nunes (57' De Bruyne), Alvarez (77' Bernardo Silva), Doku (87' Grealish), Haaland.

Subs not Used: Ortega, Gvardiol, Bobb, Wright, Lewis.

Everton: Pickford, Godfrey (55' Coleman), Tarkowski, Branthwaite, Mykolenko, Young (77' Onana), Gana [Y:54'] (88' Chermiti), Garner [Y:90+7'], McNeil (88' Dobbin), Harrison, Calvert-Lewin (77' Beto).

Subs not Used: Virginia, Patterson, Keane, Hunt.

Reader Comments (299)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer ()

Pete Neilson
1 Posted 10/02/2024 at 11:33:25
Early to the ground today. On being searched before entry (standard stuff) had my Premier League protest card taken away for inspection. All okay as another one in my back pocket.

Brought back and told the City authorities would allow it. All fine, polite lad, I wished him luck doing this 3,000 times.

Phil Sammon
2 Posted 10/02/2024 at 11:40:15
Nine English players in the starting eleven. That’s got to be rare.
Iain Johnston
3 Posted 10/02/2024 at 11:41:47
Same as last week?
Jerome Shields
5 Posted 10/02/2024 at 11:50:48
Team as expected. Young trying to get some control in place. Hopefully Gana can put in a shift like his last game.

Anthony Dove
6 Posted 10/02/2024 at 11:52:45
Phil @2.

That's the understatement of the month!

I love it.

Alan J Thompson
7 Posted 10/02/2024 at 12:27:53
I'm not sure if that is our strongest line-up or our most defensive. Difficult to see the providers never mind the scorers.

Obviously, other teams have seen through our two keepers on the bench.

Alan J Thompson
8 Posted 10/02/2024 at 13:22:57
Bloody awful! They look like they are still in the warm up and we look like we have started yet.
Phil Sammon
9 Posted 10/02/2024 at 13:27:43
Alan @8,

What you on about? How can you complain about that?

Andrew Keatley
10 Posted 10/02/2024 at 13:28:20
Very focused and disciplined first half performance; cannot remember when Man City were last made to look so ordinary. Need to be very resolute for the first 15 minutes of the second half, as De Bruyne is bound to come on now. Young and McNeil need to stay close to Godfrey and Mykolenko, and not give their wide men the chance to go 1v1.

Calvert-Lewin has conceded cheap possession too often. it's a hard job he is being asked to do, and occasionally he is excellent, but he needs to draw fouls and make better decisions.

George Cumiskey
11 Posted 10/02/2024 at 14:37:00
That's what happens when you have got a decent defence but a non-existent attack, Harrison the worst player on the pitch with Calvert-Lewin and McNeil not far behind.
Danny Baily
12 Posted 10/02/2024 at 14:38:41
Kept it respectable, but it's points back or (literally) bust for us now.

We just need something to go decisively our way. Anything.

Robert Tressell
13 Posted 10/02/2024 at 14:42:23
If we play to that level against weaker sides, we will be okay.

As Andrew K says, we made them look very ordinary for a long period. As frustrated as we all were, I expect the City fans were moaning at their laboured attempts to break us down in the first half especially.

We need some luck, again we get none.

One positive: the goal difference doesn't look too bad still – and that may become very significant.

Chris Williams
14 Posted 10/02/2024 at 14:42:44
Alan Irwin saying on Everton radio that replays show it wasn't a corner for their first goal. Clearly a goal kick, they're reporting.

Can't buy a break.

Alan J Thompson
15 Posted 10/02/2024 at 14:44:10
Shithouse performance.

We didn't really try to be part of the game attacking-wise and for the first goal there were cowardly attempts by Coleman who could have been stood on Haaland and Garner who grabbed his own bollocks, turned his back and stuck a leg out backwards, either of them could and should have smothered that shot.

The second was not dissimilar as two down in their right hand corner let it go rather than, again, smothering it which allowed them out.

They weren't impressive but we were awful in effort, tactics and set-up. Other than Beto's offside goal, did we have any attempts on their goal? Piss poor!

We had no midfield until Onana came on and he couldn't find anyone to play with. And as for Calvert-Lewin, is he really interested?

Paul Kossoff
16 Posted 10/02/2024 at 14:46:47
Bastard Radio Merseyside commentator near wetting himself again when Man City scored, actually cheering loudly, unbelievable.

We did well keeping them out that long, but no fire power up front, toothless again, Calvert-Lewin wouldn't score in the City side. Beto £20 million, seriously? Please send him back as not fit for purpose, throw Harrison and Calvert-Lewin in for free.

With the games we have coming up, if we get 6 points from the next five games, I'll be surprised.

Alan J Thompson
17 Posted 10/02/2024 at 14:47:02
Phil (#9);

If you think that is acceptable, then stick with your Bulldogs, is it. We didn't even manage a couple of behinds… arseholes, yes; behinds, no.

Sam Hoare
18 Posted 10/02/2024 at 14:49:31
You know it's a tough ask when the opposition can bring on De Bruyne, Grealish, Walker and Bernardo Silva against tired legs.

The organization and solidity that Dyche has installed is admirable and will serve us well. It's a shame we don't have a bit more pace to make use of counter opportunities.

After a tough run of fixtures we've got some winnable games coming up and 3 points against a depleted Palace next weekend is crucial. I don't know when Doucoure is back but his goal threat will be crucial.

Steve Brown
19 Posted 10/02/2024 at 14:49:32
Get an early night, Alan.
Anthony A Hughes
20 Posted 10/02/2024 at 14:52:48
Calvert-Lewin just looks shot to pieces at the minute. A shell of player who badly needs one to go in off his arse.
Jerome Shields
21 Posted 10/02/2024 at 14:52:58
I thought that Dyche got it right today and the team played well.

Man City were very lucky with the first goal. Harrison did lose possession for the second. The whole Everton team are worth what was paid for Grealish. I wonder how Man City and their manager would cope with point deductions. They don't look as if they could put in a performance like Everton.

The Premier League as a regulatory body is a complete and utter sham.

Paul Smith
22 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:00:13
Battled well today.

We have a great defence and a poor strike force – we have to beat Palace.

Fuck the Premier League.

Mike Gaynes
23 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:01:14
Anybody who saw anything "cowardly" in that effort, least of all by Coleman and Garner, needs not only an early night but a late morning.
Alan J Thompson
24 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:01:58
Some of you seem to think that was an acceptable performance, I'm sorry, but that was pathetic!

Just because we only lost two-nil against a side that can play good football doesn't mean we accept a beating when they don't play well. We were awful against a side who barely played any better.

Kevin Naylor
25 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:02:39
If Calvert-Lewin doesn't score against Palace next week, he wants benching. I don't care how shit Beto looks, the result is the same – zero goals, but Beto does at least put himself about.

Also, give Dobbin a chance next week and leave Harrison out, but we all know Dyche won't change it. He has a lot of good points, Dyche, but his lack of substitutions (at the right time), or ability to change things (when the tactics are obviously not working) is why he will never be top drawer as a manager.

Christy Ring
26 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:02:44
We put in a tough shift today, the first goal from a corner was suspect, if Calvert-Lewin headed the ball, would it not have gone forward, not backwards? It turned the game.

I thought Harrison should have been the first man off today, apart from losing the ball for the 2nd goal, how is he never subbed?

John Keating
27 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:05:16
A far bigger more important game next one up against Palace.

Plus we really do need those points back.

Alan J Thompson
28 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:05:51
Mike (#23);

I suggest you have another look at both goals… only this time with your glasses on.

Tony Abrahams
29 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:07:35
Very resolute performance, but it's a very long time playing over 100 minutes, against a team that moves the ball as well as Man City.

I liked our honest endeavour, and you could see the relief from the City players once they finally scored because you could see that it wasn't an easy game for them today.

It obviously could have been harder for City but Everton currently lack any real craft, although we did look to be a bit more energetic. This should stand us in good stead over the next few months, helping us hopefully achieve a similar points tally which will move us away from the relegation places regardless of what happens with regards to our appeal.

Rob Dolby
30 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:09:54
The expected result. We didn't really lay a glove on them which is the most frustrating thing.

Frustrating that the likes of Harrison goes through entire matches without actually making contact with an opposition player, the man is like a ghost off the ball.

Godfrey didn't look fit from the start. He picked something up in the game v Spurs and hasn't shook it off.

Branthwaite was unlucky with their 2nd but he was my MotM today.

Big game next Monday. Be interesting who gets the nod for the Doucoure role.

Colin Malone
31 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:11:26
Harrison should be in the England team. The England cross-country team. Why is he still getting in the team?
The defence played well.

McNeil first port of call is not to go past his marker, as all good wingers do, he passes back or square. Shithouse play.

Feel sorry for Calvert-Lewin playing with Championship players around him.

Just watched Dyche say he was pleased with Harrison off the ball running. That's okay then… NOT!!!

Andy Crooks
32 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:20:08
Alan J, is this the extent of your non-acceptance? Moaning on here like some more discerning blue?

Tell us your thoughts on how this very limited team could have won today. Believe it or not, you are not the only Blue who would love us to have gone there today and ripped City a new one.

However, I accept that we didn't because there was no possibility of it happening. Our limited team gave their all – whether you "accept" it or not. You are not a better blue, Alan.

Kunal Desai
33 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:25:15
Pretty much how I expected it to pan out before the game. Play well for an hour or so and then the likes of De Bruyne changes it. I think in this case quality shone through in the end. We stuck to a game plan well. Didn't get humiliated and some passages of play in the first half were good.

We move on to Palace next week minus Olise and Eze. Hopefully Doucoure back for us, and I think we start a run of picking wins up again.

Dom Kearney
34 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:33:15
If Spurs didn't have Richarlison, we would've won.

If Man City didn't have Haaland, we would've likely drawn.

Proud of them all.

Bigger game is Palace in 9 days. Must and will win!!

Phil Wood
35 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:33:47
Jerome 21.

I agree with you completely. We were very well organised and scrapped throughout against the best in the business.
We knew if we made a mistake, it would be punished.

No, I don't like losing and don't accept second best but thought the team put in a very good performance for most of the game.

Yes we didn't lay a glove on them but the second goal shows what happens when you try and open up against City and lose the ball. You get punished.

I saw enough today to believe we will be okay as long as we don't lose any more points or get a glut of injuries. I cannot pick out any player today for a slagging off.

Paul Birmingham
36 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:36:58
No complaints about the result. City beat Real Madrid 4-0, last season and today they scored 2 goals that weren't simple chances.

Haaland takes 2 opportunities and scores them. He barely had a sniff but took the opportunities when they came, a great striker.

But Everton didn't get mauled and a bit more quality with the final ball today, who knows… but Everton got into some decent positions mainly in the 1st half.

Hopefully 3 points next Monday v Palace, and to edge up the table.


Alan J Thompson
37 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:38:41
Andy (@32);

I've never said I am a better Blue or better anything. Make things up if you like or you think it puts you in a better light, entirely your decision.

But that was not a good performance from Everton — regardless of who we were playing. Giving your all doesn't make you any good if you get beaten by a side that also didn't play that well.

How could we have won? Well, by trying to, I haven't looked at any stats and rarely do but did we actually have any efforts on their goal that weren't already offside, and if so, how many and when during the game? Or doesn't it matter to you that we didn't try to score which is the general idea?

So how many more limited teams, as you put it, do we need to be a better-performing team? Come on, expert, give us the benefit of the wisdom you seem to be proclaiming or name-calling calling your fullest extent – as I seem to recall you fell back on last time.

Dean Rolstone
38 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:42:08
I thought we played a decent game today and thoroughly pushed probably the best team on the planet right now. The corner for the first goal wasn't clear and could've gone either way, I believe, but once that goal counts, we're on the back foot.

For the second goal, Jarrad got outmuscled by Haaland but otherwise, I thought he played well, as did the majority of our squad. It's a rare mistake from him but he'll bounce back for us.

I think it's probably best to ignore Alan J T and his completely negative vibes, they're entrenched with their views that somehow even if we won 6-0 today they'd complain that if it wasn't for "dinosaur" tactics would have won 10-0.

Hoping for a positive outcome on the appeal but, if we play like we did today, I believe we'll have enough to survive; however, our season will probably be decided off the pitch with the new PSR rules or in the courts. The Premier League is a corrupt farce and independent regulation can't come soon enough.

Kieran Kinsella
39 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:44:04

The thing is that, when you're team isn't that great, if you try and attack, you can end up getting thrashed (think derby games that lost Martinez and Silva their jobs).

Presumably Dyche was trying to keep a clean sheet and hope we nicked one. Obvious upside is that, if it worked, we got 3 points, but on the flip side, if it didn't work, we have a worst-case scenario of a narrow defeat.

It's a matter of looking at the risk-reward ratio. Had we gone all out trying to attack – with a team full of players who can't shoot – the odds of winning would have been miniscule and the odds of getting an absolute thrashing would have been very high.

Stuart Sharp
40 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:46:11
Alan, we had one shot on target (not offside), they had three.

No huge complaints from me because I can't see how we could do much better with the players available. But it is maddening... that gameplan works if you can counter.

Our counters end in woeful crosses (McNeil today) or shocking shots off target when the ball falls nicely for once (Harrison). Anyway, there are winnable games ahead, and Doucoure to return.

Christy Ring
42 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:49:07
Allan J,

To mention the word 'cowardly' is an insult, the team worked hard today, against the League Champions.

In case you didn't know, they last lost at home in December '22.

Dale Self
43 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:51:27
I don't know why Garner didn't get up to Haaland rather than drifting in toward the back post. Not really his fault but his box acumen lacks at times.

Overall a decent performance and I thought we were not as tired as feared. Get Doucoure back and we can gain ground in the next three matches.

Dyche looks like he just wants to manage from the stands, a much more relaxed face. The progress from the cobbled together sides is noteworthy. We may be suffering through an adjustment period which gives us more options in the future.

Dave Williams
44 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:53:28
We are not a good team and cannot afford absentees against City. Anyone thinking that we should have attacked them can't have seen us play in the last few years. We have to defend solidly and hope for a break or a set piece at least until Onana and Doucoure are fit.

The match report above could have been an essay set for R/S fans to see who could make the most scathing assessment of our team. I have travelled far and wide watching us lose over the years and the long trek home is painful but I'd sooner follow Danny O'Neil's eternal optimism and try to see chinks of promise (there really are some) rather than crucify the team week after week.

I know we are all entitled to an opinion but we are a mediocre team who we would expect to lose to City and our attackers are unlikely to look decent, especially with two good midfielders absent from the starting team.

It is likely to be a while before we see consistently good performances – the early seventies was much worse than this by the way. Just dig in and support the team, however much you might dislike certain players. Things could turn around again quite quickly!

Ian Edwards
45 Posted 10/02/2024 at 15:57:27
City took the lead on 71. We were rocking. We badly needed immediate subs but Dyche left it and City put their foot on our throat.

We can no longer play Calvert-Lewin up front on his own. No more.

Alan J Thompson
46 Posted 10/02/2024 at 16:01:20
Dean (#38);

If you think it is best to ignore it then try not mentioning it and in case it escaped your attention we didn't win or lose 6-0. I'd rather you didn't think winning 1-0 or drawing 0-0 was negative and I'd hate to hear how you might greet any 10-0 result, probably by ignoring it.

Kieran (#39);

Thank you for your more sensible approach but I tend to think you won't get much out of many games if you try not to lose rather than try to win. It probably shows how far we have fallen when we have become the bus parkers but then I was brought up on Everton just before Harry Catterick came in and like Mohammed Ali asked, "What's our name?!?"

We played to win and should still do or we'll go the way of Coventry and Southampton. Even now, we don't have to go all out but did we seriously look like scoring at any stage of this game and if not, why not?

Terry Farrell
47 Posted 10/02/2024 at 16:07:54

Dom did well with little back up. From my seat, it was obvious that was our goal kick and not a corner!

Beto runs offside… clueless. Garner, Gana, Mykolenko and Branthwaite were all superb, and Onana when he came on.

We need to make subs earlier and with urgency. I would have taken Godfrey and Young off for Coleman and Patterson at half-time.

Bill Gall
48 Posted 10/02/2024 at 16:07:55
It is difficult to criticize Man City, but it seemed to me, and that was more to the fine defensive play from Everton they were not their usual dominant force. That only changed with the excellent subs they had on their bench. Everton set up well but it still highlighted their deficiencies in midfield and a goal scorer.

The Premier League is so unpredictable that I never expect defeat, but it is how you play against the top teams that matter, and today Everton where playing the top team, and played as well as could be expected.

The one thing about Man City I don't like is their boring keep ball when they are ahead.

Jerome Shields
49 Posted 10/02/2024 at 16:13:29
The defence played well. Godfrey did have problems with Doku, but Seamus played him out of the game.

Calvert-Lewin could have been better at retaining possession and tried for more cold and line balls. Beto just got caught offside, but his finish was better than either of Haaland's.

Harrison did give up possession for the second goal, but did play well. Gana stats wise was the best player in position on the pitch.

Pickford did get to the ball for the first goal but was unlucky. He did what he could to prevent the second.

John Raftery
50 Posted 10/02/2024 at 16:18:18
Against the reigning European and World Champions, we were well organised defensively.

We needed better use of the ball on the counter-attack but the sort of players who can deliver that against a full-strength City team are currently well outside our price range.

We have more important games coming up.

Brian Williams
51 Posted 10/02/2024 at 16:18:38
I expected us to go all out for a win today and have City blasted away by half time.

I was expecting a three maybe four nil win.

Mad do you say?

Well that's what might have happened some years ago and I refuse to accept that much time has passed, many things have changed and that things are very, very different.

I refuse to accept that they're the best team in Europe and we're the third worst team in the Premier League.

Alan J Thompson
52 Posted 10/02/2024 at 16:32:57

A lot of sense there, Bill, but my main point of difference might be "as well as could be expected".

The defence seems upto par but did we actually start with any midfield, or for that matter forward or attacking intent? At times I tend to think we are a one-trick pony which is mostly defending.

Injuries might not permit but I'd like to see us one day start with Gomes and Onana in midfield with more than one player in front to pass to rather than see them make us more defensively solid – albeit they should be capable of both.

Cloud 9 maybe but you have to aim at something.

Paul Hewitt
53 Posted 10/02/2024 at 16:37:22
Brian @51.

We ain't the 3rd worst team in the Premier League.

We should be 12th on 29 points.

Soren Moyer
54 Posted 10/02/2024 at 16:39:45
Zero Everton corner.

Zero shot on target.

Alehouse footy.

How did Palace manage a 2-2 draw on December 10!?

Ted Donnelly
55 Posted 10/02/2024 at 16:46:16
Decent defence... powder-puff midfield (if any at all)... and no forward line. What did we all expect?

And Branthwaite will eventually be a City player imo!
Steve Griffiths
56 Posted 10/02/2024 at 16:48:48
Brian 51, they are the definitely the best team in Europe & we are definitely not the third-worst team in the Premier League.

We've had 10 points wrongly deducted & will hopefully get a minimum of 6 back sometime this week, which will improve the mood significantly.

Colin Malone
57 Posted 10/02/2024 at 16:57:40
I will say it again. Dyche said he was impressed by Harrison's off-the-ball running. He forgot to say, when he had the ball, he was shit.

Now he, not me, is looking forward to the return of Doucouré. Another headless chicken.

Pete Neilson
58 Posted 10/02/2024 at 16:59:49
We defended valiantly for 70 minutes but the sub for them of a world class creative player was too much.

Sadly we have no creativity at all, Haaland would struggle to get double figures in our team.

On to Palace, perspiration alone might be enough.

Dale Self
59 Posted 10/02/2024 at 17:09:14
Harrison was there to do Doucoure's defending, not to play as a No 10.
Michael Kenrick
60 Posted 10/02/2024 at 17:11:13

I can do honest and realistic. Or I can do scathing. But don't ask me for Pollyanna pap.

I think you'll find on review that is a pretty accurate description of the game we played. Let me know if there's something you think I got wrong.

However, I'm sure the official website and our wonderful local journos will put a nice spin on it for you, if that's what you really want?

Brian Williams
61 Posted 10/02/2024 at 17:15:57
Paul and Steve. Apologies for my mistake. Got so used to not having those points I'd forgotten about 'em. Maybe just my way of dealing with our unfair treatment.

The point I was trying to make, though, is that City are in a different galaxy to us so getting beat was more or less a foregone conclusion, whether people want to accept that or not. Just my opinion.

Jerome Shields
62 Posted 10/02/2024 at 17:16:02

I thought De Bruyne was managed quite well by Everton, but his pass forced Haaland to come on the right side of Branthwaite to give him problems and set up the finish. That was simple play and world class.

Bill Hawker
63 Posted 10/02/2024 at 17:17:10
We only gave up two to the City machine. When it comes to goal difference, that's a good result.
Danny Baily
64 Posted 10/02/2024 at 17:23:47
Well, the blades have done us a massive favour there. Looking at Luton's fixtures, we have a great chance to climb out of the bottom three.
Dave Abrahams
65 Posted 10/02/2024 at 17:37:18
I thought we defended solidly for 70 minutes until City scored their first goal, that was a poor goal to concede, should have been well cleared before it went to the completely unmarked highest scorer in the Premier League so two mistakes in seconds put City in front.

For the second goal, basic mistakes again with three players unable to retain the ball and poor passing gave City the ball and they got upfield against an open defence and wrapped the game up.

These very basic mistakes spoiled what I thought was a good performance by the Blues. Again, in the last two-thirds of the field, we are struggling to get the vital goals, but I believe we have enough in the squad to get the vital points necessary to get us up the league, especially with some of our hard-won points being given back to us.

Tony Waring
66 Posted 10/02/2024 at 17:37:28
I thought we played rather well, especially in the first half. How many attempts on goal did Man City have? I didn't count but there weren't that many.

They have a bench full of players who would walk into any team on the planet. We have a threadbare squad who gave their all today and I applaud their effort.

Roll on Palace!

Dave Abrahams
67 Posted 10/02/2024 at 17:40:36
Dave (65) that should have read 70 minutes on the first line. Sorry about that.
Pete Neilson
68 Posted 10/02/2024 at 17:40:55
I stay until the end of any match but Man City is the only away ground where it pays off to do this to ensure a quick getaway.

On top of the usual gaps in the Emptyhad, it's amazing how many of their supporters leave well before the 90, never mind the 10 minutes extra time.

Be interesting to see how many of them even turn up when the glory days of Pep are over.

Billy Shears
69 Posted 10/02/2024 at 18:03:42
The most important thing is we kept the score down, we kept our discipline, and we at the very least went toe to toe with the best.

It all bodes well for us for when a shaky-looking Palace side comes to Goodison next weekend, which is a very winnable game, and hopefully we can take all three valuable points.

David West
70 Posted 10/02/2024 at 18:10:32
Alan J Thompson.. is everything OK mate? What, did you expect us to turn up and out-play Man City? You need to start living in the here and now mate.

Would the Everton team of the '80s give this City side a game? Of course, we don't have a team like the '80s.

The squad they have compared to ours is just ridiculous, a bit like your scathing criticism of the team. I don't think I've ever read a positive post from you.

Positives: We defended well for 2/3s of the game and kept a team who are known for creating chances to very little.

Pickford didn't have to make a save (apart from the goals).

Tarkowski and Branthwaite are forming a real strong partnership.

Mykolenko kept Foden quiet.


We lack pace, creativity and clinical finishing.

But we all know this; we won't be relegated due to losing to Man City, it's the teams in and around us we need to beat. We shouldn't be so hard on players who have tried their best against a top, top team.

The next few matches are more winnable and will more likely have a bigger impact on our position in the Premier League.

Mark Murphy
71 Posted 10/02/2024 at 18:31:26
I watched the game at my local non-league club – Horsham FC.

I thought we played really well and the difference was De Bruyne and Haaland.

99.9% in the bar (of around 60 people) thought we deserved a point. The 0.1% was the only City fan I know in West Sussex!

We are matching these top teams despite our lack of quality and we have enough to see us safely into the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock. Our main opponents are the Premier League – the twats!


Danny O’Neill
72 Posted 10/02/2024 at 19:05:32
I couldn't be there today, so this is just a reflection from watching from the box.

We did as well as we could in the position we are in, against the best team in Europe. No one likes defeat, but they simply had more, and we almost held out.

Focussing on Everton, I thought Pickford was increasingly more commanding in his box. Tarkowski the leader did what he does and put his body on the line as always.

Branthwaite, although he made the odd mistake, including for one of their goals, just oozes class. Then again, it was against the machine that is Haaland. I hope we can keep hold of him. He is going to be a special player.

Idrissa ran on batteries to defy his years. Mykolenko continues to play with steady consistency.

They targeted our right flank with that very impressive left winger Doku. He gave our right full-back a torrid time.

I can't be too harsh on the boys today. They did as well as they could given the gulf in class. You could not challenge the effort. When you have De Bruyne and Grealish on the bench amongst others, it demonstrates where you are.

On we march to the next matches that are ahead. See you all there.

John McFarlane Snr
73 Posted 10/02/2024 at 19:15:42
Alan J Thompson [various posts],

I appreciate that everyone is entitled to express their opinions but I believe that your opinions are as David West [70] describes them, scathing generally, and over critical.

It's my opinion, for what it's worth, that Everton had no option but to play a defensive game, and if they hadn't, they would have lost by more than 2-0.

I'm sure that no-one takes pleasure from a defeat but, when they lose to a team like Manchester City, it comes as no surprise and they can't be expected to adopt an all-out attacking game. I'm quite sure that if they did, and lost, there would be an outcry from people like yourself.

Ian Jones
74 Posted 10/02/2024 at 19:24:50
Well said, John Snr.
George Cumiskey
75 Posted 10/02/2024 at 20:03:32
Strange thing on here a lot of people celebrating we only lost two-nil?

True, the defence played well but what about the Championship-level front three? And Harrison playing the 90 minutes instead of being the first off?

Rob Dolby
76 Posted 10/02/2024 at 20:16:34
I don't think anyone has mentioned the fact our hands have been tied by the Premier League for over 2 seasons whilst Man City and their 115 breaches carry on regardless with almost every player on the pitch and squad for them bought for more than our Sigurdsson fee 6 years ago!
Christy Ring
77 Posted 10/02/2024 at 20:17:08
George, I can't fault the effort today.

But I cannot understand why Harrison played the full 90 minutes again?

George Cumiskey
79 Posted 10/02/2024 at 20:47:19
Danny… close contest???
Robert Williams
80 Posted 10/02/2024 at 20:55:47
Christy 42, 'against League Champions' nay lad 'against World Champions methinks.
Danny O’Neill
81 Posted 10/02/2024 at 20:58:43
I don't think anyone is celebrating that we only lost 2-0, George .

We lost a close contest against the English and European Champions on their home patch.

I had to wait until 1977 to witness Everton beat the cousins.

That nearly came off today.

Onto Palace and Brighton

Danny O’Neill
82 Posted 10/02/2024 at 21:02:21
Tell me your take, George.

I've explained myself.

We were in that for a long period.

See you at Goodison and Brighton.

Sam Hoare
83 Posted 10/02/2024 at 21:27:31
I'm fairly happy with how today panned out, to be honest. A battling display from mud which wasn't far off earning a point. And, crucially, neither Luton nor Forest have widened the gap despite having easier fixtures. Hopefully Palace lose on Monday and then it's worked out as a decent weekend for us.

I would hope for a minimum of 5 points from our next 3 games and maybe even 6 or 7 which would be enough to get us out of the relegation zone. Of course it may not go that way but we can't keep relying on the appeal process and the xG Gods to help us out!

Mark Murphy
84 Posted 10/02/2024 at 21:30:28
FFS! The four subs they brought on today would have beat Sheffield Utd on their own – 4 v 11!

We did the best we could against probably the best team in Europe.

Loads of positives from a game that we were very close to getting a (well-earned) result.

Mark Murphy
85 Posted 10/02/2024 at 21:34:09
Danny — stop calling them “the cousins”. They're them fucking cunts!!

Justice for the 39!!

Derek Thomas
86 Posted 10/02/2024 at 21:56:19
We played a very effective 'rock' to blunt the City's 'scissors'. Trouble was that they had Four! very good Subs and changed their plan to 'paper' - and wrapped it/us up.

*changes metaphor.

Yes, we were well behind on points and they managed to knock us down twice, but they couldn't knock us out.
Not exactly Wepner Vs Ali but nobody can fault the effort against a very decent team...those four subs ffs, just two of them even at their respective ages - Walker and KdB - would send us shooting up the table.

Not our worst day at the office.

Jerome Shields
87 Posted 10/02/2024 at 22:08:34
Soren #54

Match Stats, Everton v Man City
Shots: 5 9
On Target: 1 3 (One was lucky)

Your information is incorrect: Man City had no shots on target in the first half.

Rob Halligan
88 Posted 10/02/2024 at 23:29:14
Seems we must have the only fans who expect us to go to Man City and win.
Neil Copeland
89 Posted 10/02/2024 at 23:34:41
Rob, come on mate get a grip, you must have gone today expecting to win at least 3-0.
Rob Halligan
90 Posted 10/02/2024 at 23:47:34
I did, Neil. Very disappointed with the result. I thought we'd play Man City off the park.

Still, never mind, there's always next season.

Shane Corcoran
91 Posted 10/02/2024 at 23:50:50
Mark, you're campaigning for the 39, yeah?
Paul Kossoff
92 Posted 10/02/2024 at 00:35:25
"Branthwaite exuberantly jumping on McNeil to try and attain competitive elevation against Haaland."

I think someone should explain to wonder boy Branthwaite that he should try competitive elevation with his clearances, he's been guilty a few times this season of poor clearances that led to goals as today.

Also teach him not to turn his back on his opponent which again led to a goal. Raw we don't need, finished article we do.

Kieran Kinsella
93 Posted 11/02/2024 at 00:39:16
Rob and Neil,

I blame our away fans. Bunch of Fairweather Norwegian yuppies. If Ian Edwards and Jonathan Tasker had been there, we'd have won 10-0.

Paul Kossoff
94 Posted 11/02/2024 at 00:40:02
Jerome @38.

The difference between us and Luton is they will have a go, we won't.

Andy Crooks
95 Posted 11/02/2024 at 00:45:35
Alan @ 37,

I "fell back" last time because I considered what you said. I fundamentally disagree with you this time. Not name-calling, by the way, nor am I an expert. I was proud of what our team did today, you weren't.

My view today is that we needed to defend for our lives and hope for a break.

The "better blue" comment, was, on reflection, unfair. I'll take that back.

Bill Watson
96 Posted 11/02/2024 at 00:47:52
It was a very disciplined performance and Man City were restricted to just three shots on target, two of which were goals. Their first goal came from a disputed corner which, from where I was, looked like a goal kick. Take Haaland out of their side and it would have been 0-0.

When we have possession, we usually give it away with a poor pass and Harrison doing just that led directly to their breakaway and second goal.

Our other problem is, as we all know, our complete lack of a goalscorer. Calvert-Lewin isn't, and never will be, a reliable scorer.

Our season starts v Palace, next week!

Soren Moyer
97 Posted 11/02/2024 at 00:53:09
Jerome, 87,

I did not say Man City had shots on target in the first half. I never mentioned City!

I repeat, Everton had no shots on target, no corners in the whole game.

Man City never went into third gear as they had their midweek Champions League game in mind.

Kieran Kinsella
98 Posted 11/02/2024 at 01:23:43
Paul Kossof

Luton “having a go” isn't the difference between us and them; it is (in your opinion) a difference between us and them. More importantly, other differences include:

We have earned 29 points. They haven't.
We have better players.
We have a more experienced manager.
We have a larger and better fan base.
Only four teams have conceded fewer goals than us.
We have successfully won Premier League relegation battles.
We've just had a tough run of fixtures. They haven't.

Should I go on?

Dale Self
99 Posted 11/02/2024 at 02:22:05
And another thing worth considering is that we just tuned up our defence/counter operations against the best team in the world. I think that should come in handy against a weaker team (Palace), a City-lite attack (Brighton) and OFM.

Derek Knox
100 Posted 11/02/2024 at 03:03:49
So made up with our performance today against arguably the current best team in the World! We could have actually come away with something with better capitalisation on chances, and keeping hold of the ball better.

Not easy I know, but today's signs augur well for the future. We may also get some points back if early reports are to be believed.

The future's bright. The future's Blue!

Don Alexander
101 Posted 11/02/2024 at 03:08:53
I'd just like to know what other club has squandered hundreds of £millions only to end up as no-hopers against all but every "top" club decade after decade?

I'd also like to know the identity of those responsible for turning us into the 21st Century version of late 20th Century Coventry City, replete as they thought they'd be with their very own "fabulous" new stadium.

At Man City, our team did everything we could rationally expect of them but the decades-long mediocrity introduced to our club saw that we failed, again, whilst they who get off scot-free with their hideous obscenely wealthy owners (to which our right-wing government present a gaping arse to fuck in every circumstance) enjoy never-ending media adulation.

It should be funny – but it's anything but.

Paul Ferry
102 Posted 11/02/2024 at 03:44:20
George Cumiskey 75: no one is "celebrating [that] we only lost two-nil", unless you can actually find someone I missed for me.

Do not mistake evident relief that we lost no ground on those around us today when playing the toughest fixture of all 38 for, in your misguided word, "celebrating".

That is up there with the couple of posters who said that the gaffer and the team would be judged by what happened at City away.

Kieran Kinsella
103 Posted 11/02/2024 at 03:54:04

I'd say Spurs and Newcastle for starters.

Don Alexander
104 Posted 11/02/2024 at 04:11:32

Spurs largely squandered only the Bale money as far as I'm concerned but they have a fabulous new stadium and, even having sold Kane, are in with a very good chance of top-level European football next season. Right now, we're in their shade, big time.

Newcastle have always had a fabulous "old" stadium (way better than Goodison in this century) and, like Man City, a nation-state owner to whom our government always present a spread-cheek arse — period!

Right now, we're in their shade too, big time, as we are in comparison to the vast majority of Premier League clubs, regardless of the deduction of an unheard of 10 points.

Alan J Thompson
105 Posted 11/02/2024 at 04:44:58
David West(#70);

So we've become the School of Not Very Scientific Defending?

Still, as long as we can still beat Luton, Palace and Burnley, the here and now is Moshiri's "games we expect to lose" as most seem to have already settled for Mediocrity FC mid-table finishes — but we haven't even managed that for at least the last few seasons.

But hey, it makes for nail-biting last games and dramatic appeals for excitement, not to mention being grateful for being allowed on the same pitch as the "World's Best".

Barry Williams
106 Posted 11/02/2024 at 05:20:37
As mentioned on another post, just thinking about sporting advantages – was Man City's bench worth about £½ billion?

I couldn't get to watch the game because of work commitments, so cannot comment on it as I only caught snippets, but it has all gone a bit ridiculous, hasn't it!?

Everton did have a starting team almost made up of English players – one local (and he was bought from Man Utd). I can somehow still relate to Everton, but it is getting harder and harder. How City fans can relate and feel it is their team, I am not sure. All personal taste, I guess.

Barry Williams
107 Posted 11/02/2024 at 05:33:51
Just to add to above, Everton do seem to have the most fanatical of away support – and I guess that always adds to a feeling of identity for many supporters as these days I am not a match-going fan, largely due to being abroad for a long time.

Some of you are mad (in a good way)!

Paul Ferry
108 Posted 11/02/2024 at 06:42:03
Kieran, how on earth can Newcastle be put in that equation?

Currently, unable to splash the cash by the Premier League rules, they have actually spent fairly wisely over the last few years with some excellent balanced buys. Erm, Gordon, for one.

Newcastle are a well-run club on the evidence of the last few years. Trippier on a steal, Livramento on a relative steal, Barnes not overpriced imo, Isak, brilliant wheeling and dealing. They will be fine.

And, erm, your other missile, Spurs, on the fringes of Champions League, with, in recent memory – Vicario, Udogie, Van de Ven, Porro, Richarlison, Maddison, and I have a hunch that Werner will work out well.

Think before you press submit Kieran.

On the brighter side, I hope that the Swift Chiefs beat SF.

Danny O’Neill
109 Posted 11/02/2024 at 07:01:10
Barry, Goodison is a special place.

The away matches are special and the atmosphere electric.

The travelling blue army mad?

I would say we are obsessive, bordering on possessed and beyond cure or exorcism!!

Danny O’Neill
110 Posted 11/02/2024 at 07:29:18
Smiling Mark.

My immediate family are all Everton. But my cousins are a mix. My two cousins had an Everton dad. One was blue, one red.

My poor favourite cousin is a singleton in a family of reds. My sister's husband red as are two of his sons. The other a fantastic Everton follower.

Tony Abrahams
111 Posted 11/02/2024 at 08:10:23
Mark M and Shane C, please don't bring Heysel into the equation, because it's not something you should mention in the city of Liverpool unless you are a biased and obsessive bitter Blue.

It might still be acceptable for our wonderful neighbours to fly a Steau Bukarest flag on the Kop but I suppose it's better to turn a blind eye sometimes!

Kevin Edward
112 Posted 11/02/2024 at 08:10:40
Okay, so disappointed not to get something, but the team deserve huge credit for staying in the game up to the last 15 minutes or so.

Looks like Man City are starting their title charge now and Haaland just looks unstoppable at times. We just don't have the quality to put away the chances we huff and puff to create. But we should expect some better luck over the next few games, unless the levels of performance drop off.

It's really now time for one or two to step up and deliver some goals to move us up the table. We can only help ourselves now on the pitch — it's truly a fight to the bitter end.

Stan Grace
113 Posted 11/02/2024 at 08:30:05
Soren, Everton had five shots, one of which was on target.

Excluding Haaland's goal, Man City only had one further shot on target.

Jerome Shields
114 Posted 11/02/2024 at 09:03:26

Godfrey had a shot on target saved by their goalkeeper.

Barry Williams
115 Posted 11/02/2024 at 10:43:41
Danny O'Neill - 109

It certainly wasn't meant in a derogatory or pejorative way - for example, "He is mad on Everton", more of a compliment than anything.

I watched my first game in 1980, I have been a season ticket holder and have been to Goodison more times than I can remember. My gran used to leave ladders outside of her house in Walton Village for when I got a lift to the match so we could park up outside her house on match days.

My dad regularly played against Brian Labone and my family has a long history of being Evertonians. I was never an away dayer due to finances, my need to follow bands up and down the country, and my love of boxing – my wallet would not stretch that far in my teens and 20s. Then I left the UK in 2001 anyway.

My last match at Goodison was an age ago… Koeman was in charge. Although I'm now back in the UK, I work weekends mostly, and as much as I really dislike the modern game – my affinity has always been strong with Everton, watching almost every game, spreading the word in many countries – though I could not bring myself to watch any games under Benitez. That was just plain wrong.

So yeah it was a compliment.

William Cartwright
116 Posted 11/02/2024 at 10:58:17
Alan (106 and prior)...

I see you taking some criticism for your forthright comments but, in fairness, you are stating, albeit generally, what a lot of Evertonians feel about the what is the result of the hopeless running of our Club over recent years and beyond.

The issue is the general versus the specific criticisms. Again in fairness, the observation by others regarding Luton 'having a go' also hurts by comparison because it's true. However, we do have 4 of some of the defenders in the Premier League, in Pickford, Tarkowski, Branthwaite, and Mykolenko (on recent form), but our forward players are generally not there yet.

For me, the jury is still out on our manager in terms of his defensive bias, and his lack of nouse with substitutions, and I wonder how robust the backup support structure is in these troubled times.

I fully expect the worst from the Premier League regarding our position, as history has shown, a clear path of negative bias, with the VAR and refereeing generally set against, for example – us being the only club not to be awarded a penalty so far this season shows.

The message is to keep hoping, be positive, and cut the team some slack in these difficult times...

Brian Wilkinson
118 Posted 11/02/2024 at 11:50:22
Bill, we have had a penalty this season, a bloody ten point one.
Mark Murphy
119 Posted 11/02/2024 at 11:56:05
I thought this when watching the match live yesterday (on TV) and having just watched MotD this morning, I think Godfrey could easily have got a straight red for kicking their keeper in the head when they were on the ground.

If the VAR really wanted to stitch us up, they had the opportunity to do so. I was very relieved they didn't seem to look at it too closely. UTFT

Barry Rathbone
120 Posted 11/02/2024 at 12:25:09
We're just not very good and no amount of grandstanding and tub-thumping pre-game changes that inescapable truth.

Our peer group is Bournemouth, Brentford, Palace, Forest, Luton, Burnley and Sheffield Utd – the rest might afford the odd point here and there but the likes of Man City and Liverpool are as near to banker losses as you can get.

Our aim is to be above 3 of the aforementioned mini-league and by 10 points no less; it's about as tough as it gets.

Probably contingent on what the footballing gods want in their weird persecution of this club. Is it to have the first game at BMD in the Championship or delight in the mother of false dawns by relegating us after one season of unimaginable expectation there?

All together now, channelling your best Sir Laurence Olivier:

"A sheikh, a sheikh, my kingdom for a sheikh!"

Rick Tarleton
121 Posted 11/02/2024 at 12:40:00
"We didn't really lay a glove on them" wrote Rob Dolby(30) and I must say I agree.

A classy champion stood there with a reach advantage and jabbed and jabbed his left hand in the face of the gallant challenger who shook his head and marched on till in the tenth round when he fell for the right-hand sucker punch.

A fair result that showed how plucky we are, how we never give up and how we simply do not actually score very often and when we do it is a wonder goal or from a set piece scramble.

Calvert-Lewin rarely gets a good cross or even a through ball. As Christine Foster explained in a recent perceptive post, it is difficult for a striker who is expected to help out in midfield and defend all set pieces to have the energy and calmness to be a clinical striker, especially when the service he gets is so meagre.

Mykolenko has received quite a bit of praise lately, but his crosses are frequently overhit, they aren't picking out a man. Though quite often he hasn't got more than one man up when he breaks forward.

Fortunately the three promoted teams are helping us as best they can and I really hope the iniquitous 10-point deduction is at least halved. Life goes on.

Brian Wilkinson
122 Posted 11/02/2024 at 13:06:49
I think we need to have a realistic look before laying into just not good enough.

Over the last few seasons, we have had a boardroom problem, we no longer have any surviving people at the top, apart from the owner, we have worked alongside the Premier League, trying to be as open and cooperative as we could; we sold Richarlison when advised to do so, we sold Gordon to try and balance the books, but still got shafted for a 10-point deduction.

We have faced the most farcical set of officials, who refuse to give us a penalty, refuse to give an opposing player a sending off, are second highest to having penalties awarded against us, have given clubs around us the incentive to battle harder, with the likes of Everton and Forest giving them two more lifelines.

After we made the 10 points up, they then hit us with a possible second breach, have stated once the hearing is complete, they will not make some of the minutes available to the public.

Even when questenioned, Masters said I hope in the next week or so an announcement for takeover approval, yet they still drag this on, other teams never had to wait this long, it is either yes or no, they have had more than enough time to give their answer.

Everything possible is going against our football club, is it any wonder we are where we are? No other team around us has any issues, apart from trying to win a game, no corrupt officials dictating the fortunes of a football team.

It really is us against the rest, we just have to ride this out until they announce our appeal, our new owners approved or declined, a bit of a fairer level playing field in our games.

By all means have a pop at lack of goals, not getting crosses in, the real issue is the most blatant corrupt disadvantage our football club faces each time they cross the whitewash, we are getting screwed over, week after week.

I would take a step back and the look at the bigger picture our football club is facing every single day, on and off the pitch.

Ray Said
123 Posted 11/02/2024 at 13:18:54
As other posters have pointed out, Man City are current Premier League, European and World Club Champions, so most teams are going to be on the back foot and have to defend for the majority of any game against them.

In light of this, I thought the back four defended well and doggedly and the midfielders harried and competed. Young doubled up well to support Godfrey and they closed down Doku really well.

I also cant blame Pickford as they were two good finishes, especially the first goal. Although Branthwaite came off second-best against Haaland for their second goal, he wont be the first or last to be outplayed by him. Gueye and Garner ran themselves into the ground and no one with an eye on the game can fault their effort or grit.

Aside from the Man City match, I see the problem is that our three attackers are almost always set up (instructed?) to be auxiliary defenders. They spend most of their time facing our goal, running towards our goal or passing the ball backwards towards our goal. When we have the ball, Calvert-Lewin drops deep towards our players to try to get a touch or his head on the ball. He hardly runs in behind a defender.

Harrison spends most the game ‘buzzing about' ,harrying defenders. He hardly runs behind and when in a position to cross then either plays the ball backwards or overhits his cross. I can't find data for his crossing rate success but I would be surprised if it's more than one per game.

I would make the same point about McNeil but we have seen in the past that he can be effective and he may just be off-form or distracted by family issues.

The balance of the team looks wrong and we seem to have three players that are nominally attackers but act as supplemental midfielders or, on some occasions, supplemental defenders. I know Dyche has to work with what he has and I do think he is doing well under the circumstances but he needs to change the balance somehow.

I would start with benching Harrison, as I do not know what he contributes aside from buzzing about and chasing down, and give Dobbin a few starts behind Calvert-Lewin.

Danny O’Neill
124 Posted 11/02/2024 at 13:21:05
I know the context of the point you made Barry @115.

We are mad. Intact we are insane!

1976 for me.

It's infefectious Cradle to grave. Everton is for life 💙

Neil Copeland
125 Posted 11/02/2024 at 13:24:10
Danny #124, absolutely off our rockers mate! I find it helps though.
Raymond Fox
126 Posted 11/02/2024 at 13:32:56
Man City are strong favourites whoever they play at home never mind playing the likes of us. Our only chance of points was to play the way we did; we did well for 70 minutes.

If we had gone with the idea of playing open attacking football, they would have scored a bagful. Okay, you might say that's defeatist but I think that's the reality of the gap in class between the top and bottom of the league.

Shane Corcoran
127 Posted 11/02/2024 at 14:19:29
Tony 111, I agree. That was kind of my point.
Alan J Thompson
128 Posted 11/02/2024 at 14:25:32
John (#73);

Overly critical and we all being Evertonians? What can I say, oh yeah, "Nil satis nisi not optimum".

Still, there are quite a few who think that motto should go as well.

Soren Moyer
129 Posted 11/02/2024 at 14:30:27
Stan, 113 & Jerome, 114.

My apology to you both. You're right. We indeed had one shot on target.

Jeff Spiers
130 Posted 11/02/2024 at 14:31:50
Alan@128 and other ToffeeWebbers. Any ideas for a new motto?
Rob Dolby
131 Posted 11/02/2024 at 14:34:29
Don @101.

Chelsea, Man City and QPR

All had been allowed to break the glass ceiling and not worry about the consequences of high spending.

The difference is the Premier League have put rules in place effectively preventing that happening ever again. Newcastle Utd and Aston Villa being prime examples.

Man City and Chelsea just continued spending whilst QPR spent lots but didn't have the same spending power and imploded.

We are a mess and I am not defending the way we have been run but we are in the middle of a perfect shit storm.

Off the pitch: Ukraine war, Covid, new stadium, PSR, unnamed player! Whilst on the pitch: instability, lack of long-term planning, changing managers, random recruitment especially around players with no resale value — have left us in the shit.

Most clubs are walking a tightrope, hence the lack of spending in January. Forest are vulnerable. Brentford and Bournemouth have spent big for them and must be close to their limits.

All clubs are spending just to stay in the Premier League. There are 5 teams that have a realistic chance of winning the title: Man City, Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal, as they can all just keep on spending.

Alan J Thompson
132 Posted 11/02/2024 at 14:43:44
Jeff (#130);

As many said when Bill found us our billionaire: "Be careful what you wish for" — whatever the Greek is for that.

Andy Crooks
133 Posted 11/02/2024 at 14:54:08
Who thinks the motto should go?

"Quite a few"?

Name one.

Andy Crooks
134 Posted 11/02/2024 at 14:58:08
However, "Be careful what you wish for" is pretty good.

I remember the Southampton fans cursing us when we poached Koeman. Bet they love our plight. How fucking bad has it been?

Andy Crooks
135 Posted 11/02/2024 at 15:01:10
Cave quid volunt
Ian Edwards
136 Posted 11/02/2024 at 15:07:51
It would seem that North Korea has taken over control of ToffeeWeb. I'll say no more..

As for a new motto... just shorten our present one to: Nil.

James Hughes
137 Posted 11/02/2024 at 15:11:58
Never mind poaching Koeman, that fecker should have been roasted, preferably at the stake.
Kieran Kinsella
138 Posted 11/02/2024 at 15:39:13

I took a slight liberty and looked at your post in terms of tangible outcomes: trophies. Also, in terms of spending, they both spent fortunes going back to the '90s chasing gold.

Paul Ferry,

See above.

Ray Roche
139 Posted 11/02/2024 at 16:04:47
Alan @128,

‘Still, there are quite a few who think that motto should go as well.'

Where'd you get that Tom-tit from, Alan?

It was bad enough some beauts banging on about Z-Cars and the siren without introducing the motto into the list of things that need binning, even if we rarely live up to it these days.

Maybe we can change our name to Shite FC while we're at it, that's been accurate for a while now.

Brent Stephens
140 Posted 11/02/2024 at 16:22:39

"Still, there are quite a few who think that motto should go as well."

I've never once heard anybody on here suggest that. Anybody else, step forward please. Watch this space.

Robert Tressell
141 Posted 11/02/2024 at 16:54:54
Maybe the point is that, sadly, a motto and proud (albeit distant) history cannot deliver us a set of players worthy of the club. Only two things can do that: (a) vast sums of money; or (b) a brilliantly executed player development strategy.

Since we have neither, we are left with a squad that is about the 15th best in the Premier League, with Dyche overperforming by getting us to 11th place.

No-one believes that is good enough. But it is considerably better than Championship football — which is where we would be without Dyche.

Dale Self
142 Posted 11/02/2024 at 16:57:42
Brent, when I see a post like 128, the Greek phrase that comes to mind is “veni, vidi kaka”.
Jeff Spiers
143 Posted 11/02/2024 at 17:03:19
On the Z-Cars Theme, there was back in the 80s a techno version. I lost my copy of it. Does any one remember it?
Brent Stephens
144 Posted 11/02/2024 at 17:08:20
Dale, for a nano second I was going to google that!
Paul Jones
145 Posted 11/02/2024 at 17:25:15
Was it this one Jeff?

Johnny Todd Techno Version

Brent Stephens
146 Posted 11/02/2024 at 17:35:15
Paul, you must go to some great raves.
Paul Jones
147 Posted 11/02/2024 at 17:41:51
I do, Brent. We go crazy taking tabs of Paracetamol before we hit the dance floor in our cosy knitwear to the sounds of Manilow – or Peters and Lee when it really kicks off – before heading for our separate beds at 9 or sometimes 10 pm.
Brent Stephens
148 Posted 11/02/2024 at 17:47:43
Decent joints still, Paul.
Paul Jones
149 Posted 11/02/2024 at 17:52:14
Not great joints, Brent, especially my knees. The Paracetamol helps but sometimes I have to take Ibuprofen as well. Before I know it, I'll be scoring Solpadeine off pensioners outside the post office one day.

Got to get a grip of myself.

David West
150 Posted 11/02/2024 at 18:17:07
I get the feeling most are split in 2 camps on this thread.
One side is captained by Alan J Thompson.

This side believe that, due to our past history, no matter what the make-up of the sqaud, no matter what financial difficulties the manager and DoF are fighting against to put out a decent team, we should still play like we have Sheedy, Heath and Trevor Steven on the pitch, against The Premier League and European Champions.

On the other side, you have guys who take on board the predicament the manager, DOF and players find themselves in. We live in the present, we understand a loss to Man City isn't the end of our season and, relative to the situation and squad we are able to field, we didn't fair too bad for 60 minutes.

We know the team isn't good enough, we know it's unacceptable for Everton to bobb around the bottom of the table, but we support the effort shown, if it's shown.

It's about knowing what we are capable of; this team is probably capable of mid-table, anything more would be an over-achievement.

When people start to realise it's not 1987, we haven't a pot to piss in, Bournemouth and Luton are spending more than us and we are still doing okay points-wise (with no deduction), then they may live in 2024.

Mark Murphy
151 Posted 11/02/2024 at 18:44:21
Erm, that's Italian, not Greek…

Greek would be: ήρθα είδα ότι χάθηκα

Mark Murphy
152 Posted 11/02/2024 at 18:46:07
Paul, don’t forget Renee and Renata! That bit at the end when he throws the rose…. 🫣
Andy Crooks
153 Posted 11/02/2024 at 18:46:52
Exactly, David.

Someone will probably come on, however, and accuse you of accepting mediocrity.

When's the next anti-mediocrity parade, by the way?

David West
154 Posted 11/02/2024 at 18:53:00
The motto is in Latin!!!

Alan, your motto could be "tu nescio quid tibi de..." Google translate it!!!!

David West
155 Posted 11/02/2024 at 19:03:33
Andy. There is a difference between acceptance of mediocrity and acceptance of our situation.

Some on here can't accept our situation, they won't back it, until it gets better then they will be marching about how they have supported us through the good and bad times.

Supporter: 1. a person who approves of and encourages a public figure, political party, policy, etc

Can some really class themselves as a supporter???

I don't approve or encourage the way the club has been run; however, I do approve and encourage the team and what Dyche is trying to do, against the odds, with his hands tied.

You could even say I'm a supporter!!!

Stuart Sharp
156 Posted 11/02/2024 at 19:17:25
Excellent posts, David.

I think you're flogging a dead horse, but at least you are doing so eloquently. It always amuses me when I'm accused of 'accepting mediocrity', or better still, 'happy clapping'. It reaffirms my self-image of being a loyal and passionate fan.

Those who accuse positive posters of accepting mediocrity would have us go gung-ho every game, irrespective of the squad, thereby getting battered regularly and finishing in a less than mediocre position.

Often living in the past and sometimes unpleasantly personal, always misguided.

Dale Self
157 Posted 11/02/2024 at 19:19:16
You got me there, David. Details.
David West
158 Posted 11/02/2024 at 19:35:42
What details, Dale?
Dale Self
159 Posted 11/02/2024 at 19:41:26
Maybe I misread that. I thought you were correcting my reference to a ‘Greek’ phrase.
David West
160 Posted 11/02/2024 at 19:45:42
No mate was saying the club motto Is Latin. Some think it's Greek or Italian, I know Latin has its roots in Italy but it is a separate language.
Frank Fearns
161 Posted 11/02/2024 at 21:06:22
David - love what you're saying but sadly Alan just doesn't get it despite being told in every way possible by many understanding our predicament.

I wonder will there be a production in 30 years time: "Dyche's Way"?

Derek Knox
162 Posted 11/02/2024 at 23:50:23
Ray @ 123, I totally agree with Harrison comment.

I was actually made up when we signed him on loan for a year, based on what I had seen from Leeds cameos. Now I am almost, dreading him being picked, because he runs the opposite channel to what he is used to, and invariably runs down blind alleys, with no end product!

Pretty sure I know you Ray, did you live in the Dingle once, married to a lady called Rose? I was with her sister Mary for years! Hope so!

Kieran Kinsella
163 Posted 12/02/2024 at 00:45:18

Agree on Harrison. I was snowed by seeing his highlights on MotD. Over 90 minutes, he reminds me of Cleverley or Rodwell: an athletic guy who has little understanding or ability to constantly impact a game of football.

Alan J Thompson
164 Posted 12/02/2024 at 03:43:50
Ray(#139); Speaking to people and reading ToffeeWeb, Ray.

Brent(#140); And you a regular on here have never read that? Does that come under Ray's "Tom-tit'?

Sorry, Brent, just re-read your #140 and of course you, as pedantic as you are, couldn't have heard it here.

Alan J Thompson
165 Posted 12/02/2024 at 03:53:39
Dale(#142); You obviously missed the intended humour in Greek, and no, I won't be explaining it.
Alan J Thompson
166 Posted 12/02/2024 at 04:09:53
David West; thanks for appointing me Captain and you, obviously, have appointed yourself as the opposite number, but I must decline,.

I speak only for myself and as for Everton, it maybe isn't "Must try harder" as there is effort there but we seem intent on being difficult to beat by sacrificing creating scoring chances in order to bolster defence.

Blame it on the quality of the playing squad if you want; if it wasn't for the likes of Pickford and Tarkowski, I might think it may be because of where we source players but I tend to put it down to the tactics.

If you think it is good enough or acceptable to only beat those teams at our level, then that is your choice, but it isn't mine.

Mike Morgan
167 Posted 12/02/2024 at 04:23:39
I've read some criticism of Branthwaite regarding the second goal. I personally think Branthwaite did well to not make a rash tackle and get sent off, in a game we had already lost. I think he may have learnt from the similar incident 2 seasons ago when he was sent off v Brentford.

I thought the defence including Branthwaite played well against an incredible Man City team (that's been built with no regard to FFP).

To have no shots on our goal into the 2nd half shows great discipline. Now we need to beat the teams around, hopefully with Doucouré back and fit.

Danny O’Neill
168 Posted 12/02/2024 at 07:58:28
Branthwaite slipped against the best striker in the world.

Jarrad is a fantastic player and is only going to get better.

As I keep saying, be patient with him. He is young and makes mistakes. Most players do.

Watch the Tarkowski interview.

Realism. The boys done well.

Jerome Shields
169 Posted 12/02/2024 at 09:20:20
It was the perfect pass from De Bruyne. The only way Branthwaite could have stopped Haaland was to take him out. Branthwaite was too honest for that, but that is what Keown would have done, no matter what he is saying.

I have witnessed Keown being 'professional' before. He managed not to get sent off on the two occasions.

Sean O’Hanlon
170 Posted 12/02/2024 at 09:31:15
Kieran #98.

With reference to your comparison with Luton, you state: "We have a more experienced manager".

That did us a lot of good when we've been beaten by them in the league and the cup this season, both at home!

Jerome Shields
171 Posted 12/02/2024 at 09:38:16
Sean #170,

Dyche has a total win mentality, so he needed it stopped in the Cup if Everton were to get back on track in the Premier League with a limited squad and point deductions.

Rob Jones
172 Posted 12/02/2024 at 09:46:23
And yet, Sean, we're probably going to remain in the league, while they just lost 3-1 at home to Sheffield United.

A league season has peaks and troughs. We've had a very difficult recent set of fixtures, while Luton have been on the crest of a wave of momentum.

Brian Williams
173 Posted 12/02/2024 at 09:50:55
If Branthwaite (that's Branthwaite) is getting stick on here, then TW really has hit rock bottom. The lad has been imperious for us in this his first proper full season in the Premier League. IMHO, he's miles ahead of where John Stones was at his age and experience.

He's been one of the very few shining lights in a shitshow of a season and if people are slagging him for one mistake then they really do need to have a word with themselves. And if you're going to slag him, or not, get his fucking name right, the lad deserves that at least!

Brian Harrison
174 Posted 12/02/2024 at 10:11:17
Branthwaite was given few alternatives in what he could do with the one-on-one with Haaland. Had he fouled Haaland, it would have been a straight red card.

I know Keown on MotD said he stayed watching the ball for too long and should have been watching Haaland more, yet how often do we hear these same pundits criticizing players for not watching the ball?

I think Jarrad Branthwaite will be England's centre-back and possible captain in the not too distant future, it's a long time since I have seen such composure in a centre-back.

I know some have compared him to John Stones and that's a fair comparison but for me Jarrad is more dominant in the air than Stones and I also think he is a better reader of the game than Stones.

Mind, so many comparing him to Stones just shows what a talent he is. Sadly like the last highly talented youngster we had, he will no doubt be playing for a top club, just as Rooney did, so enjoy him while we can.

Christopher Timmins
175 Posted 12/02/2024 at 10:31:53
My only fear about Branthwaite is that he will not be with us for much longer due to the incompetence of the past. The boy is a star!
Roger Helm
176 Posted 12/02/2024 at 10:51:36
For sure, Branthwaite will have to move on to a top club sooner or later for his benefit as well as our financial needs.

I am old enough to remember when Everton was a top club hoovering up talent from smaller poorer clubs, not being a feeder club ourselves. Well done, Bill & Co.

Ray Said
177 Posted 12/02/2024 at 11:53:18
Hi Derek (162).

My dad grew up in the Dingle and worked the ships then on the tugs. Apparently I have an uncle called Brian who still lives there but the family lost contact years ago.

I think he has a couple of sons but not sure. The south end is like a village – everyone has a connection or two.

Dave Cashen
178 Posted 12/02/2024 at 13:52:35

If you get the chance, Try to catch Martin Keown's MotD assessment of Jarrad for the second Man City goal. No snide put-down. No "He's better than that" shite, just good constructive criticism and advice from an old pro to a young one.

Never liked Keown when he first became a pundit but he has grown into the role and offers good measured opinion... The BBC won't put up with that for much longer.

Brian Wilkinson
179 Posted 12/02/2024 at 14:33:19
Hi Danny,

Rugby league is back Thursday mate, a nice Hull Derby to start the season off.

If you get the chance, Danny, sit back and try and catch some of the game, forget the rules, just admire how a referee has full control of a game without interference, how the VAR type system they use puts football to shame.

If a team scores and the ref is unsure, he will go to the big screen, miked up, you will hear him say either "I have a try (or no try), can you check the grounding? You will then get the big screen replay and hear him say to the ref "I have a try" or "No try", if it is not clear, they have to go with the refs on field decision.

The people in the booth will never advise the ref to look at something,the ref is in total charge of the game, the only time those in the booth will interact is if the ref asks them.

Puts var to shame how rugby league use their technology, you will be sat there Danny thinking Christ it works so well why can they not use the same in football, and leave the ref to ref the game, instead of jumping in.

You will not see a player go to ground holding his head either for a slight touch, if a player is on the ground you can guarentee someone has clocked him one.

I know a few have no interest in rugby league, but it's worth even just a 20 minute view just to see how good the video technology is compared to football.

Paul Hewitt
180 Posted 12/02/2024 at 15:12:54
Brian@179. I can't wait for the rugby league to start, it's a fantastic sport. And every game is now live. How fantastic is that. Come on you Saints.
Frank Thomas
181 Posted 12/02/2024 at 15:20:39
I agree with Brian (122) and Ray (123), we have a good team with several players who can play brilliantly, such as Branthwaite, Onana and Garner amongst others. These are players we must try and keep next season.

Man City in particular seem favoured by the refs and the premier league itself. It could be because of who the owners are, whatever the reason we and other clubs are starting to get annoyed. Look at the past few seasons, the handball in their half that would have given us an extra point and possibly Liverpool an edge to win the league.

A perfect example in today's match, Calvert-Lewin vs Rodri just after 24 minutes. Did you see how Calvert-Lewin did a great dummy when he looked like he was going down the wing? Rodri fell for it and moved to the outside to block the ball.

Instead, Calvert-Lewin moved his body slightly and the ball was moving along the pitch and going to go past Rodri who, realising he was the last man, did what was in effect a rugby tackle and pulled Calvert-Lewin off the pitch. The result, no red, not even a yellow card just a free-kick.

Fast breakaways through City's defence is how Palace scored 2 against and Rodri knew how fast Calvert-Lewin is and was prepared (to cheat) to take one for the team.

The situation with Calvert-Lewin is now becoming damaging to the team spirit. He had no shots on target, his passing was careless on breakaways. He was10 feet behind the only possible pass that McNeil could get across which was a brilliant cross, just needed a tap in.
Yet Calvert-Lewin was afforded 77 minutes – no wonder Beto was offside for two good situations, all the other attackers are wondering what they have to do to get more time. They are running into spaces to try and get passes, unlike Calvert-Lewin.

The rest of the team are working their socks off and I am sorry, Calvert-Lewin didn't seem interested, his hunger has gone. Calvert-Lewin got quite a lot of negative comments from pundits for this game.

Dyche must take some blame here. Asked in the press conference 'Is Calvert-Lewin doing any extra training?" Dyche replied "No, he does not need to".

Brian Wilkinson
182 Posted 12/02/2024 at 15:27:22
Paul @180, yourself Jim Lloyd and myself will be having some friendly banter, especially Good Friday.

I follow Wigan Warriors, Roby will be a huge loss for you, but you've signed a very good player in Daryl Clarke.

Danny O’Neill
183 Posted 12/02/2024 at 15:29:15

I don't confess to know too much about Rugby League. Likewise NFL. But there are parallels. RL with its 6 tackles. American football with its 4 downs. All about gaining territory.

Mind, the BBC reporting on the Superbowl today has been more focused on Taylor Swift.

Frank Thomas
184 Posted 12/02/2024 at 15:29:33
Brian (174) it was not Branthwaite's fault, it was because we tried to play silly tap-tap football in the their corner, 4 players and we lost the ball, great pass out and 2 nil down.

That scenario reminded me of how Iwobi unfortunately always seemed to play his worst pass or got caught in possession when we had the majority of our players ahead of him.

Roger Helm
185 Posted 12/02/2024 at 15:42:01
Rugby league is a better watch in my opinion, all action and constant attacking. No arguing with the ref, unless they want a yellow card.

And no feigning injury either, for a reason – they try to not show pain as if they do they can expect a 110kg prop running at them the next play!

Paul Hewitt
186 Posted 12/02/2024 at 15:45:06
Wigan, Brian, I hate them as much as that lot over the park.😁
Brian Wilkinson
187 Posted 12/02/2024 at 15:55:12
You've got it, Danny, gain ground then get rid of the ball before you get tackled on the 6th tackle. Easy to follow mate, oh forgot to mention, there is a stop clock in play: the stop clock goes on as soon as the ref signals, then restarts on the ref's signal, none of this playing 10 minutes stoppage time.

Only difference to Rugby Union, the hooter sounds bang on 80 minutes, unless the ball is still moving, the game is over when the player is tackled or the other team drop on the ball.

Brian Wilkinson
188 Posted 12/02/2024 at 15:57:02
Paul, my late partner was a Saints fan and a Red shite.

I'm sure you can let me off my sins of the past. 😂

Brian Wilkinson
189 Posted 12/02/2024 at 16:05:51
One more thing, Danny, the difference with rugby league and American football is rugby league is fast flowing, you don't get time outs or slaps on the back for gaining one metre, much better watch, rugby league.
Danny O’Neill
190 Posted 12/02/2024 at 16:21:33
Agree with those points Brian.

I we would just stop the clock rather than officials covert subjectiveness.

I'm often intrigued with American football when I visit… it goes on for hours though.

My US friends got me into following College (University) rather than NFL so when I do watch, it's the Texas Longhorns.

David West
191 Posted 12/02/2024 at 17:23:48
I watched the superbowl last night. One thing that struck me was there were a few close calls & decisions that could have gone 2 ways…

But the players and coaches just get on with it. None of this berating the officials, questioning their judgement. It was refreshing compared to what football players behave like.

Brian Wilkinson
192 Posted 12/02/2024 at 17:42:36
I agree, Danny, one yard gained then off to adverts, never known a more boring game than American football for its stops and starts, a 60-minute game sometimes lasting close to 4 hours.
Brian Wilkinson
193 Posted 12/02/2024 at 18:30:54
If you like the Stones, Dave, you must like Muddy Waters and Wilson Pickett, he could make that guitar and harmonica sing like a bird. Proper rhythm and blues, not a bit like today's R&B.
Christine Foster
194 Posted 12/02/2024 at 19:25:54
Just read a piece in the Echo about Calvert-Lewin, his current drought and how hard he works for the team, running the channels, defensive duties etc... it's absolute twaddle.

The reason Calvert-Lewin is in a drought is the way the team is set up, the jobs the manager is telling the players to do.
They point to the numbers of chances created (but not converted) as some sort of justification of team selection but it isn't.

The team is set up and built in the image of Burnley: gritty defence from 11 outfield players.

I don't want a centre forward on his own, jumping for high balls that, even if he does win, are just pointless as there is no one to play it off to or run on to.

Harrison and McNeil are primarily there for their industrious work rate, Onana, Gueye, Garner the same. Doucoure is not creative but does have the knack of being in the right place at the right time.

Calvert-Lewin is no Haaland, he is no Lukak,u but give him the right ball in and he can finish. He cannot score by the corner flag, on the half-way line or in his own penalty box.

Ancelotti got the best from him because he set the team up with providers. It's a soulless task playing as a forward for Everton, we only see an attacking set-up when we are chasing a game and put 3 attackers on for the last 10 minutes: Dobbin, Beto, Chermiti, what on earth do we expect?

So it's no wonder Calvert-Lewin has no confidence, one or two possible half-chances a game and the other 88 minutes running his tripe off chasing pointless balls and waiting for support by the corner flag.

So... do we have the wrong players or the wrong mix? Both. in Dyche's eyes, prevention is better than score. So Dobbin is sacrificed because his defensive duties come first.

We may be better organized, harder to beat, but we are blunt, totally lacking in creativity, trying to use defensive blunt instruments from set plays as our sole threat when we need creativity and inventiveness.

The team has attributes, but the name of the game is winning, not hanging on.

Dave Abrahams
195 Posted 12/02/2024 at 19:59:26
Brian (193),

Yes, I like the Stones, Muddy Waters and Wilson Pickett great to watch, on DVDs, never seen them live. Same as Wigan Warriors, supported them for a long time, well before they added Warriors to their name, well before Billy Boston played for them but I've never seen them live. I hate St Helens rugby team even though the Derby between them and Wigan has got nothing to do with me!!

By the way, Brian, my post about the Stones, Beatles etc wasn't on this thread was it? Which one was it on?

Bobby Mallon
196 Posted 12/02/2024 at 21:19:12
Christine 194 agree
Brian Wilkinson
197 Posted 12/02/2024 at 21:49:29
Hi Dave, I think it was on the profit and masters thread Dave.

I used to watch Everton on a Saturday and Wigan on a Sunday, home and away, until Friday night rugby came in and Sky TV for football. I still get the home games for Everton, but not many Wigan games these days.

You will have had the pleasure of watching Eric Ashton play for Wigan.

Sadly TV has dictated both sports.

Laurie Hartley
198 Posted 13/02/2024 at 03:23:49
I have just watched Crystal Palace and Nottm Forest being beaten but I'll tell you what, the pair of them carry twice the attacking threat that we do.

I saw more movement and will to get forward from Beto and Dobbin during their brief cameos than I did from Calvert-Lewin and Harrison during their 80 minutes on the pitch.

Yes, Beto missed a sitter the other week but in this game, even though he was offside, he beat Ederson from the edge of the box with a properly struck shot – and Ederson did try to stop it going in.

Dobbin actually tried to beat his man when he came on.

We have to start giving opposition defences something to think about in open play.

Danny O’Neill
199 Posted 13/02/2024 at 05:30:04
Two great points, Christine.

Hanging on doesn't win you games.

And Calvert-Lewin. He's no Harry Kane, but give him the right supply and he can score.

It's like when some call for two strikers. If you don't supply them with the right balls, it doesn't matter how many strikers you have on the pitch and you expose the midfield.

As you say, we have industrious, hard working players, but we lack creativity.

But, we do occasionally play some good stuff. We just lack that killer punch.

We're not that bad. Get our points back (or some of them), and we're in a relatively comfortable position.

Palace next. Big game.

Mark Murphy
200 Posted 13/02/2024 at 07:02:19
For fuck's sake, Dave, just when I was beginning to like you, you turn out to be a bloody pie eater!
Danny O’Neill
201 Posted 13/02/2024 at 09:07:08
Forget that, Mark.

There are still places in London that serve jellied eels. The thought of it turns me green! Even my dogs who eat slugs would turn their noses up at that.

Dave Abrahams
202 Posted 13/02/2024 at 09:53:04
Mark (200),

Nobody's perfect … not even me!!

Danny O’Neill
203 Posted 13/02/2024 at 10:13:22
Spirit of the Blues

A long way to go until Monday. There's something in this one for quite a few generations.

I thought it might lighten the mood.

Keep fighting blues.

Dave Abrahams
204 Posted 13/02/2024 at 10:27:19
Brian (197),

Yes, I remember Eric Ashton, I think he was responsible for supplying Billy Boston with many of his tries.

Mark (200), As a peace offering, one of my favourite Rugby League players was Vince Karalous(sic) of St. Helens, I think he was called “The wild bull of the Pampas” after his performances v Australia, I think his brother also played for St Helens and they had a large scrapyard in the town.

Nowhere better to have a scrapyard than St Helens. That's a joke, Mark!!

Dave Abrahams
205 Posted 13/02/2024 at 10:45:13
Danny (203),

Enjoyed those few minutes Danny, some great memories there.

To further lighten the mood, here's a question for anyone interested: Name the Everton striker who scored in a derby game versus Liverpool and his grandad who a famous film star.

Brent Stephens
206 Posted 13/02/2024 at 10:57:35
Dave #205,

It wasn't a guy who also claimed to have had a spot in the Boys Pen, was it?!

Derek Thomas
207 Posted 13/02/2024 at 10:57:54
Vince, Tony and Dennis Karalius, I worked with Dennis in the 90s, big lad, hands like shovels and a very 'dry' wit.

I also worked with Tony Chambers, who I think ended up as Widnes Chairman... his wit was of the more acerbic nature, he used to rip the shit out of the top Liverpool guy, who like many hadn't been to an actual game since Billy Liddel – if then.

Both top blokes.

Brian Harrison
208 Posted 13/02/2024 at 11:02:27
Dave 204

I used to have a business in Widnes and I remember under Doug Lawton they won everything, The Premiership and the Challenge Cup, probably Rugby's best ever coach.

He returned to the club some years later and he started signing top Rugby Union players such as Martin Offiah and Johnathan Davies, think they paid Llanelli £225,000 for him which was a lot of money in those days.

Vince Karaulius, who all good judges reckon was the toughest guy ever to have played Rugby. Alex Murphy, who played with Vince at St Helens said if Vince said it was Christmas, you didn't argue with him.

When he managed Widnes, they won 2 trophies under him in 1975, the Floodlight Cup and the Lancashire Trophy. He also went on to win the Challenge Cup in 1975.

Frank Fearns
209 Posted 13/02/2024 at 11:07:47
Dave -- Tom van Vollenhoven on the wing for Saints - some team.

Danny - Eddie Kavannagh getting tackled by a copper in 1966. He's still got my autograph book!!

Never did get a ticket so watched the match outside a TV shop in Wembley High Street with a hundred Evertonians. The terrified manager of the shop who thought his window might go in was happy when we had a whip round and gave him a hatful of change. Not sure it would have happened if we lost, mind.

Clive Rogers
210 Posted 13/02/2024 at 11:31:41
Dave, 204,

Vince Karalius was from Widnes and the scrapyard was in Widnes. He won the World Cup with Great Britain in 1960.

Legend has it that he dived off the Widnes bridge into the Mersey. Probably after a skinfull. That was the old bridge.

Dave Abrahams
211 Posted 13/02/2024 at 11:36:59
Brent (206),

No, it wasn't him, the fella who asked this question had his fellow drinkers giving every wrong answer under the sun before he was finally asked to name the two people, his answer was Imre Varardi and his grandad, Oliver Hardy.

The fella was doused with glasses of bitter, Guinness and mild for his trouble.

Dave Abrahams
212 Posted 13/02/2024 at 11:43:17
Clive (210) and Brian (208), thanks for your replies.

I'm relieved that Vince did win his honours with St Helens and I thought he had too much class to have a business in St Helens or even live there!!

Sorry Mark, even though you did have the sense to escape from your hometown, didn't you?

Paul Hewitt
213 Posted 13/02/2024 at 11:43:31
That Widnes team in the '80s was great.

I can't say the same about Naughton Park, that was a dump.

Dave Cashen
214 Posted 13/02/2024 at 11:53:52
You're in top form here Dave.

Varardi and Oliver Hardy made me laugh, but not as much as your "I hate St Hellens" comment.

I don't believe a word of it. I just don't think you could control that particular cat as it slipped from your grasp and somehow got among the pigeons.

Len Hawkins
215 Posted 13/02/2024 at 12:24:44
My late wife came from St Helens we met in the early '70s, their neighbours used to go watching Saints in fact one of them was a gateman and let us all jump over the turnstile.
After a Sunday dinnertime sesh in the Working Men's Club or the Labour Club, we went to Knowsley Road.

When our lad was about 12 or 13, we went to a family celebration in the function room at Knowsley Road. One of my Mrs relations and his wife came over, they used to Welcome foreign (Aussie & New Zealanders) coming over to Saints and show them the ropes about living over here, Supermarkets, Doctors etc.

There had been a game that afternoon and most of the players were in the lounge so he took him down and he met all the players from Saints who were local and still having a pint.

His favourite player was Kevin Ward who was a big tough Yorkshireman who ate razor blades and light bulbs for afters.
He broke his thumb in the first half of a game at Naughton Park, stayed on the pitch. After half-time, he came out with it strapped up and played the full game.

I would love to see him on the coaching staff at Everton picking up the divers who go down after wafted by the breeze someone's shorts had caught him.

This season is going to be the death knell, I fear, as the game has been dumbed down that much, half the players from each side won't be on the pitch long.

Danny O’Neill
216 Posted 13/02/2024 at 12:33:56
I've never really understood Rugby other than admiring their officials and implementation of their equivalent of VAR. The rules seem complex and confuse the hell out of me.

Living close to Widnes, I am not a fan. No disrespect to Widnesians. One of my best mates is from the area streets away from the Rugby ground.

I do remember seeing Martin Offiah drive past in his sponsored car once.

"Be a flyer with Martin Offiah" dressed on the side!!

Brent Stephens
217 Posted 13/02/2024 at 12:40:00
Dave Abrahams, that joke was bad but I'd throw your own beer, not mine, over you.

Danny, Chariots Offiah, wasn't it?

Danny O’Neill
218 Posted 13/02/2024 at 12:43:50
Might have been, Brent. It was about nearly 40 years ago!

Hopefully catch some of you on Monday and then worry about getting home.

Dave Abrahams
219 Posted 13/02/2024 at 13:02:31
Brent (217),

Nasty there Brent and your spelling was atrocious, 'throw' not 'through'!

Never mind, I forgive you, and here's a genuine question which I got right away, well half of it.

Name two well-known Liverpool-born entertainers who appeared in a Cowboy film and the name of the film? I got the two entertainers but not the name of the film.

And no bleedin' googling to get the answers!!

Mark Murphy
220 Posted 13/02/2024 at 13:11:27
Was Buster Keaton one of them, Dave?
Nicholas Ryan
221 Posted 13/02/2024 at 13:45:20
Danny, 'admiring their officials' in Rugby reminds me of two tales I heard in an after-dinner speech some years ago.

In the Rugby Union World Cup Final, England's Martin Johnson was incensed over a penalty decision; and the 6'-7" 19-stone Johnson towered over and berated the referee, Andre Watson. Watson, cool as a cucumber, simply gave Johnson a withering stare, said 'I wasn't aware this was a fucking debate' and walked away.

In a Great Britain v Australia Rugby League match, a GB player, Kevin Ashcroft appeared to strike an Aussie player, who was prostrate on the ground. The referee and Ashcroft were both stood over the player, when the Ref said: "Well Ashy, there's only thee and me here... and I never hit 'im!"

Danny O’Neill
222 Posted 13/02/2024 at 14:01:34
Nothing is 100%, Nicholas, never will be.

But I think they get it more right consistently than in football.

Dave Abrahams
223 Posted 13/02/2024 at 17:52:50
Mark (220),

No Buster wasn't in it Mark, he wasn't a Scouser he was from St Helens!

Alan McGuffog
224 Posted 13/02/2024 at 18:08:23
Dave... I saw Kenneth Cope in a western. He one of 'em?
Roger Helm
225 Posted 13/02/2024 at 18:11:07
Another innovation in rugby league is that the refs are mic'ed up on Sky so you can hear the explanations of decisions. (I know it wouldn't work in football because of the language of the players, unless everything is screened after the watershed).

Often when a player tries to speak, the ref will say, "This isn't a conversation, it's me telling you what is happening and why" or words to that effect. But it's useful for the viewers.

Regarding toughness, a year or two back, we saw on TV a player sustain a gruesomely obvious dislocated kneecap. He just thumped it back in place with his fist and limped back into the action!

Dave Abrahams
226 Posted 13/02/2024 at 18:19:51
Alan (224),

Kenneth Cope was definitely a Liverpool lad but he wasn't in this film.

I think it was made in the sixties, I remember I saw it on the Madge, better known as The Majestic.

Dave Abrahams
227 Posted 13/02/2024 at 18:57:26
Alan (224),

I just checked on the cast of the film to make sure Kenneth Cope wasn't in the film; he wasn't but there was at least another two Liverpool born entertainers in it, one of them very well known and liked.

Stephen Davies
228 Posted 13/02/2024 at 19:25:42
Frankie Vaughan
Andy Meighan
229 Posted 13/02/2024 at 19:32:50
Dave 205.

Don't know if anyone else has answered your question but I will.

Everton striker Imre Varadi his grandad... Oliver Hardy, my god that's an arl one.

Dave Abrahams
230 Posted 13/02/2024 at 21:01:00
Stephen (228), Yes, Frankie Vaughan is one of them, I think he was the Sherrif.
Bill Gall
231 Posted 13/02/2024 at 21:03:12
Reading a lot on here on the way Everton play, with Christine @ 194 coming up with the major points. 1 image of Burnley, gritty defense from 11 outfield players, 2 Hanging on doesn't win you games, and 3 Lack of creativity.

No disrespect and not being critical, but how many supporters believe that this is because of the 10 pt deduction that has brought in the fear of relegation,and that means every point is critical.

Now other supporters may have a better memory than me (sometimes I cant remember what I had for breakfast ) but where we playing a more open game with the defense was supporting the attack, instead of the attack supporting the defense..

Dave Abrahams
232 Posted 13/02/2024 at 21:03:45
Andy (229)I know I was just dusting it down and taking our minds off waiting for justice to be done.
Alan McGuffog
233 Posted 14/02/2024 at 06:32:06
Dave a totally wild guess here but... Rita Tushingham?
Mark Murphy
234 Posted 14/02/2024 at 08:29:23
We're both wrong, Dave, Buster was actually from Kansas! I don't know why but I always thought he was a Liverpool lad.

I was going to suggest that Stephen Graham but he's not from Liverpool either – he's from Kirkby….

Dave Abrahams
235 Posted 14/02/2024 at 10:13:12
Alan (233), No mate, Rita wasn't in it.

Mark (234) I know a few Busters from Liverpool but Keaton wasn't one of them and Stephen Graham would class as a Scouser but it isn't him either. So…

Arthur Askey was the other one along with Frankie Vaughan, Derek Guyler was another one with Arthur's daughter Anita. The film was called Ramsbottom Rides Again. It was bleedin' crap, whatever Arthur was as a comedian he couldn't act and Frankie Vaughan was a very good Variety performer he couldn't act either and yet he appeared in a film with Marilyn Monroe and Laurence Olivier – what they made of him God only knows.

By the way, a very good book was a Biography of Ownie Madden the English Godfather who was born in Leeds then resided in Liverpool for a short while until he emigrated to America at a young age.

Stephen Davies
236 Posted 14/02/2024 at 10:47:42

Another Liverpool-born Comedian (Jewish) who emigrated from Liverpool to New York was Henry Youngman.

Dave Abrahams
237 Posted 14/02/2024 at 12:30:49
Stephen Davies (236),

I ‘d never heard of him, so I googled him, glad I did, he was known a great one line comedian who would appear anywhere, anytime.

One of his one line jokes was: A doctor gave his patient six months to live but he couldn't pay his bill so he gave him another six months.

By the way Stephen it said he was born in London, but you're an Evertonian so I'll take your word, what do they know!!

Ray Said
238 Posted 14/02/2024 at 13:12:52
Dave (235) I read a bio of Owney Madden. Fascinating stuff especially the era when he ran the Cotton Club
Dave Abrahams
239 Posted 14/02/2024 at 13:26:25
Ray (238), Yes he was a tough little nut, he ran the illegal wire services that gamblers used to bet on racing.

He was injured in a gunfight in a night club and a couple of bullets stayed in his body for the rest of his life.

Bob Hoskins played him in a film about his life, but Owney's wife didn't like the way he was portrayed, Bob ranted and raved in the film and his wife said that Owney wasn't like that he got things done in a quiet way. Maybe even when he was bumping his enemies off!!

Ray Said
240 Posted 14/02/2024 at 13:31:11
i saw the film 'The Cotton Club' Dave. Bob Hoskins as Owney and Fred Gwynne as his partner in crime.

Nick Cage was also good in it but I thought it was ruined by Richard Gere. I am surprised they haven't made a film just focussed on Madden and his extra ordinary life.

Stephen Davies
241 Posted 14/02/2024 at 13:35:40
Dave.. thanks. I thought I had the wrong guy when you stated the records showed he was London ( indeed Wiki states just that).
However I first came across him on YouTube on one of the old Las Vegas Roast compared by Dean Martin.
As you mentioned a quick fire comedian. I remember looking him up afterwards and distinctly remember reading that he was Born in Liverpool and emigrated to NYC at an early age.
I found this:
which states he was Jewish and born in Liverpool
Dave Abrahams
242 Posted 14/02/2024 at 14:03:32
Ray (240),

Yes he did have a very lively life and knew a lot of people, good and bad.

He looked after Stan Laurel, recognising his accent as being close to where he grew up. I think like a lot of people in the game he was in, he could be a good friend but also a bad enemy.

Brent Stephens
243 Posted 14/02/2024 at 14:57:54
I feel as if I've walked into the wrong room, or switched to the wrong TV channel.

I'm half expecting to see a post from BBC film critic Mark Kermode or even Barry Norman (back from the dead – I assume he is dead; if not, sorry Barry!).

Eric Myles
244 Posted 14/02/2024 at 15:07:03
Brent, I always preferred Mariella Frustrup to Barry Norman, for obvious reasons!
Jamie Crowley
245 Posted 14/02/2024 at 15:19:31
Off topic with apologies.

Did anyone see that Jamie Carragher spoke out in favor of Everton and the ridiculous delay in judgement from the Premier League regarding the 10-point deduction?

This is getting circus-like. Between this and the obscene implementation of VAR, coupled with the Big 6 exodus fiasco and their two-tier system for the application of sanctions, I'm getting sick of the Premier League.

I feel like it's a chore to watch now and crooked. I used to watch multiple non-Everton games on the weekend. Now, I watch Everton only because I feel like there's no point in watching other games and supporting a league that's turning into a joke.

Get the freaking decision out there, you Premier League cowards. Your lack of spine is disgusting and your decision-making abilities are non-existent.


Dale Self
246 Posted 14/02/2024 at 16:39:15
Jamie, I think the Premier League is considering its least-damaging options while just now realizing that their time spent on it is undermining any kind of a soft landing.

We could get fucked out of spite and arrogance or they could fold like a taco. Or something in between I guess.

Who fucking knows… which is exactly why we have a handbook, innit?

Brent Stephens
247 Posted 14/02/2024 at 17:24:50
Eric #244, I can think of a few reasons, Eric.
Mike Gaynes
248 Posted 14/02/2024 at 17:31:01
Another off-topic item, in this morning's Guardian:

Joel Barwise, an Everton fan who shouted racist abuse about Mohamed Salah and mocked the Heysel stadium disaster at last October's Merseyside derby, has been banned from attending matches for 3 years and fined £500.

Danny O’Neill
249 Posted 14/02/2024 at 17:55:41
Mike, there is never a place for racist abuse and that should absolutely be punished.

As for Heysel, we shouldn't mock it as 39 people lost their lives attending a football match.

But we shouldn't shy away from discussing it as I do frequently with friends and family and not airbrush it from history. A terrible tragedy that should not be forgotten.

Mike Gaynes
250 Posted 14/02/2024 at 18:26:40
Heysel is a tragedy still so present in the lives of Merseysiders and other footy fans, Danny.

And 99.99% of US-born Americans have never heard of it.

Barely more have heard of Hillsborough.

My takeaway was surprise at an Everton fan being a bigot. Always startles me.

Brian Harrison
251 Posted 14/02/2024 at 18:55:58
Mike 250

I doubt many will be surprised to hear that 99.9% of Americans have never heard of the Heysel tragedy, and not many more have heard about Hillsborough. I find many Americans pretty ignorant to most things happening outside their own country.

I remember an interview George W Bush did with one of the American TV companies and he was asked to name the President or Prime Minister of about 8 countries and he never got any right. So if your President couldn't name leaders he had sat down with, it's hardly surprising that Heysel and Hillsborough don't register very highly with Americans.

Also, why you are surprised at an Everton fan being a bigot? You may not be old enough to remember how our fans used to sing "Everton are White".

Brian Williams
252 Posted 14/02/2024 at 19:10:13
I have a feeling that reporting on the "mocking" of the Heysel tragedy is probably inaccurate and misleading.

The person in question, IMHO, wouldn't mock the people who died, but his misjudged attack would be aimed at the Liverpool supporters who caused it. It would be them he'd mock. A subtle difference but a difference all the same.

I've probably not explained that well but I feel "mocking the tragedy" is probably inaccurate. And before people dive in I believe any mention of it in any shape or form to "score points" against the rs is totally wrong.

Brent Stephens
253 Posted 14/02/2024 at 19:39:54
Brian #252 I think you have explained that clearly. And convincingly.
Danny O’Neill
254 Posted 14/02/2024 at 19:44:48
In my opinion, it has been Liverpool's reaction since.

I know they tried a few years back when Juventus came to Anfield in a European match. The Juventus supporters deliberately turned their backs on the Kop.

History and hindsight, but I'll never get my head around how we and others got punished for something we didn't do. And I know that is not the root cause of where we are now, but it denied one of the best teams in Europe at the time their moment to compete on the highest stage. Yet it is rarely mentioned… almost ignored.

You're correct, Brian, it is not point-scoring. It's talking about a tragedy that shamed English football.

Brian Williams
255 Posted 14/02/2024 at 19:50:31
Thanks for getting what I meant guys. 👍
Paul Ferry
256 Posted 14/02/2024 at 20:04:18
Spot on Dale (Self), 246: my thoughts exactly. Your first paragraph sums up a messy and protracted situation in four lines.

How far is St Helens from Liverpool, 15 miles or so? I shudder to think. I've never once been there. I have been through it at least twice on the train and saw nothing that would make me want to get off the train.

Same thing with Wigan, except that I have gone there to watch us. and to change trains. Actually, I quite like some Northern Soul classics since the place closed down.

I've been to Skelmersdale once, four years ago. I've never been to Parbold or Newton-le-Willows.

I grew up in Bootle and Crosby and would not be able to get around from place to place in South Liverpool. I know Aigburth and Woolton Village but I would not know how to get from Crosby to Knotty Ash or Speke or Childwall where that pathetic small-minded racist hails from. (I wouldn't know how to get to Halewood from Crosby.)

Is there a North-South divide in our city, or is it just me?

Danny O’Neill
257 Posted 14/02/2024 at 20:07:33
And just as we're on the subject, it still riles me and most Evertonians that they regularly fly that Steaua Bucharest banner at derbies.

After all of the support we've given them over Hillsborough, that is just crass and disrespectful.

Mark Murphy
258 Posted 14/02/2024 at 20:22:19
Brian, my thoughts exactly. And Danny is right, I bet the people with that flag don't get fined for mocking Heysel!

Offended by everything, ashamed of nothing!

Paul Ferry
259 Posted 14/02/2024 at 20:33:06
Danny, I sometimes wonder if they would have given us the same level of support if roles were reversed. I know for sure that we would never wave a flag like that.

Can't the fucking Anfield authorities take the shitty filthy rag off the knobhead's hands? It shouldn't be too hard to locate the twisted moron. Unless, of course they ........

Paul Hewitt
260 Posted 14/02/2024 at 21:08:32
Ferry I'm glad you never got off at St Helens. The place is bad enough as it is. And I see more shootings in America. What a lovely place that is.
Paul Ferry
261 Posted 14/02/2024 at 21:15:34
LOL Mr. Hewitt.

"For England, Wales, and Northern Ireland as a whole, St Helens is among the top 10 most dangerous major towns" with a crime rate significantly higher than Liverpool: 145 crimes per 1000 people.

Chicago's crime rate is 37 per 1000 people.

Kieran Kinsella
262 Posted 14/02/2024 at 21:22:43
Paul Hewitt

Unfortunately, today's shootings are less than a mile from my home. Last night, I witnessed an armed car-jacking at a gas station about half-a-mile in the other direction.

Sadly, I cannot say I am surprised to see what has gone on today.

Paul Hewitt
263 Posted 14/02/2024 at 21:23:23
Stealing a few items is hardly like mass shootings.
Mark Murphy
264 Posted 14/02/2024 at 21:26:22
St Helens has gone downhill since the overspill from Liverpool in the '70s, true enough.

It was a nice place to live until then.

Paul Ferry
265 Posted 14/02/2024 at 21:35:16
HAHAAHHAHA Mr Hewitt. 100% swerving from you in the cold light of the blind bleedingly obvious. St. Helens is quote a "dangerous" place to live in with a very high crime rate.

You seem almost as fixated on guns as the fecking NRA. Listen, there are other ways to measure life. Sadly, and I'm sad to hear Kieran's story, gun deaths are by and large geographically and socially restricted (we have a library of research on this).

I, for example, have never seen a gun or heard a gunshot in Chicago. On the other hand, I would not want to live in a culture-less colourless place like St Helens with its sky-high crime rates where the threat of being beaten up, robbed, drugs, violent crime touches 300 out of 2000 people each year. (And that, by the way, is recorded crime: the real figure will. be much higher.)

Millions and millions of people in California live on a highly dangeorus fault in the full knowledge that the "big one" could happen in the next hour, day, or month.

Facts, PH, facts.

Horsham or St. Helens hmmmmm ?

Paul Hewitt
266 Posted 14/02/2024 at 21:51:06
True, Mark.

Growing up in the '70s and '80s, it was a great place to live. Outsiders have ruined it.

Paul Ferry
267 Posted 14/02/2024 at 21:55:55
Who are these "outsiders" PH? Would you care to give us some details.

It all sounds uncomfortably a little Luton to me, but perhaps you could reassure me?

Paul Hewitt
268 Posted 14/02/2024 at 22:13:24
At least we have the greatest rugby league club in the world.
Paul Ferry
269 Posted 14/02/2024 at 22:21:55
Wow, is that it PH? The most successful RL clubs are down under. RL is a minority sport. It doesn't really matter that much in the grand scheme of things. People around the world think of union not league if they think of rugby at all, mate.

Anyway, it's good that you are happy there. That's important. What did you mean by "outsiders"?

Paul Hewitt
270 Posted 14/02/2024 at 22:26:19
By definition, outsiders are people not born in that area.

Come on, Ferry, I thought you would have known that.

Danny O’Neill
271 Posted 14/02/2024 at 22:29:00
It would be interesting, Paul Ferry, to see if they gave us the same level of support. In fairness, a lot of red cousins are quite supportive of our current predicament.

But they are family and friends from home, not the ones I have to tolerate down here in West London.

As we got onto geography, I've always been an advocate in the concept of Greater Liverpool. The city, Knowsley and South Sefton all officially part of the city. And yes, Kirkby.

I've always thought of us as one city. And we are. But I do acknowledge the differences in culture as well as accent shifts between the north of the city and the south.

I've always broken the city / region into areas. To the north, Everton, Anfield, Kirkdale and Bootle. To the far north, Crosby, Litherland, and Maghull. To the east, Kirkby, Croxteth, Huyton. And then my end. Aigburth, Childwall, Mossley Hill, Belle Vale and Netherly and Halewood. Not forgetting were my family roots are. Speke and Garston.

I've probably missed few out. But a city family and an Everton family.

Mark, I can't confess to know too much about St Helens, but I did think it might be urban mythology, but didn't Simon and Garfunkel take inspiration for the song Homeward Bound from standing on a platform at Widnes station?

Danny O’Neill
272 Posted 14/02/2024 at 22:41:15
I don't believe in the outsider thing personally.

I was born in Liverpool. Sefton General Hospital.

My son was born in the West Midlands but lived his formative years in Liverpool and his first school was Much Woolton.

He is as passionate an Evertonian as me. As are those who grace these pages wherever they come from.

I don't like the term 'outsider'. No such thing. I don't buy it. However you became an Evertonian it doesn't matter.

Paul Ferry
273 Posted 14/02/2024 at 22:45:07
No PH, that's not sufficient. That's okay. But that is the sort of thing I expect to hear in Dover, Luton, or Boston UK. You know exactly what I mean.
Paul Ferry
274 Posted 14/02/2024 at 22:48:08
They did, Danny. Have you seen Widnes Station? I know you have, many times. No wonder they thought of home, sitting there.

Maghull and Crosby in the same bracket? Nooooooo.

Netherly, Danny? I seriously have no idea where Netherly is.

Danny O’Neill
275 Posted 14/02/2024 at 22:52:18
Yes, a lot of visits to Widnes. Unfortunately. Sorry to any Widnesians! I do actually have a very good friend who grew up near to the Rugby Ground.

Netherly is just up from Halewood and close to Belle Vale.

Paul Hewitt
276 Posted 14/02/2024 at 22:54:02
People from Chicago, Ferry. Tiresome and boring individuals. Always looking to start an argument and thinking the're better than everyone else. That sort of outsider.
Danny O’Neill
277 Posted 14/02/2024 at 22:59:27
I liked Chicago. Great city.

I was there for 4 July several years ago.

Paul Ferry
278 Posted 14/02/2024 at 23:08:07
You've only ever met one person from Chicago PH. You know next to nothing about the city or its people, apart from what you read in the media. It's a good idea not to offer an opinion on something that you know next to nothing about.

Danny, that doesn't help mate! What or where is Belle Vale!

Now Halewood, car and paint plants right (my old fella used to work at was it Vospers, Vaspers, making paint). It's one of the first places you go through when you get to Liverpool on the train?

Brian Wilkinson
279 Posted 14/02/2024 at 23:12:43
Mark @264, I could say the same.

Newton-le-Willows was a nice place, until they started moving people from St Helens here. :-)

Paul Ferry
280 Posted 14/02/2024 at 23:34:17
Our geography teacher, Sid White, at St Marys in Crosby came from a place called Billlinge I think it was. Isn't that near you, Brian?
Paul Ferry
281 Posted 14/02/2024 at 23:42:40
Jesus, Kieran, I hadn't quite clocked what you posted before. Truly awful and seven people in life-threatening conditions.

I know it inevitably will, but I hope that this doesn't dampen the Chief's achievements in the long run. Terrible for the city and the team and fans on what should have been a glorious day and a day to remember forever for the right reasons.

Brian Wilkinson
282 Posted 14/02/2024 at 23:56:20
Billinge is midway between St Helens and Wigan, Paul, well known for Billnge Hill – the point that splits Wigan and Saints fans, part of the ward is higher end ward Wigan, while the chapel end is St Helens Ward.

It's about 8 miles from me, Paul, Newton is in the middle of a triangle between St Helens, Wigan and Warrington.

Jamie Lenard
283 Posted 15/02/2024 at 00:27:19
Paul Ferry, where exactly do you live in Chicago? I live downtown on Racine & Milwaukee Ave.

I own 3 businesses and have been robbed 6 times in the last year and both my neighbours have been carjacked in the past 6 months. If you live in the City of Chicago you're leading a charmed life.

Kieran Kinsella
284 Posted 15/02/2024 at 00:32:13
Paul Ferry,

Yes, it's very sad. As I was heading to work, there were jubilant excited crowds; coming home, a somber scene, police tape, cops everywhere.

Paul Ferry
285 Posted 15/02/2024 at 00:38:31
Hi Jamie,

I'm sorry to hear that and hope that you didn't lose too much mate. I'm in Hyde Park and honestly have never heard a gunshot here although I have in England. I know your neighbourhood well. Remember eating great Polish sausage there.

Wow, Brian. Billinge really is in the middle of the Saints - Wigan divide. I didn't know that. The hill sounds worth a look. I'll try to do that when next at home. In fact, I should just get in the car and spend a day driving to all those places that I have never been!

Mike Gaynes
286 Posted 15/02/2024 at 03:50:17
Kieran, so sorry to hear that. It's been an awful day, but more so for folks like you so closely impacted by this hateful act. I knew you were in Kansas City but, damn, that's too close.

Jamie, likewise sorry to hear you've been through such a rough patch in the old neighborhood... as you know my first babyhood home is just a long walk from you. Hope the Chicago Evertonians are rallying around you.

I grew up in Highland Park, where 19 months ago a guy went up on the roof of a building where I once worked and opened fire with a rifle on people watching the Fourth of July parade. He killed 7 and wounded more than 30, including relatives of people I went to school with. The shooter's father, the leading Trump-worshipping politico in town, just got out of jail for illegally helping his son acquire the rifle.

Paul Ferry
287 Posted 15/02/2024 at 04:22:26
Robert Crimo Jr Mike? Hideous slimy pond-life. His original sentence was a fecking joke. I hope your friends' relatives are all okay. And, also, that you are in good health. The India - England test match live and red wine seems to be a good way to bring another grey day to an end.

As I type, India lose their first wicket and their dangerman, Mark Wood. Great ball on a flat wicket. 22-1 - 24-2, boss, Mark Wood again.

Danny O’Neill
288 Posted 15/02/2024 at 06:50:38
Sorry, Paul.

Following up on the south Liverpool geography. Close to Childwall and Gateacre.

Sorry to hear about the events in Kansas City after the celebration of a fantastic sporting achievement.

Mark Murphy
289 Posted 15/02/2024 at 08:23:59
Touché, Brian – since I moved to Horsham, they say the same down here too!!!

I was born and bred in Sutton Oak, St Helens, near Junction Lane which was a thriving community and tight-knit. Everyone knew each other and met in the Prince of Wales pub or 10 o'clock mass at St Anne's.

The Sutton I visit these days is a wasteland. The many shops of Junction Lane, that once included a corner store, two very good butchers, toy shops and a model (Airfix) shop as well as the best sweet shop in the world, Maleedys, are boarded up or are nail bars!

Seriously, St Helens was probably one of the worst hit by Thatcher, with the closure of several collieries and to be fair, the scousers who moved to St Helens probably wished they hadn't. The days of May Fairs, leaving back doors open for visitors and football in the “entries” (back alleys) were gone and the place changed from a tight-knit community to a wasteland.

I'm visiting this weekend before heading to the “safety” of the Adelphi for Monday's game, but I must say I don't like staying too long. That said, I never forget where I come from and the town I knew, the people who I knew when I lived there, some still there, and, as Paul says, the best Rugby League team in the world, still make me proud. Much like the scousers from Scotty Road and the lost tribes of Everton love their history and place of upbringing.

But I wouldn't live there now for a king's ransom — Horsham or St Helens?? No question — I'll take Norvern git over Wooly back any time! UTFT

Brent Stephens
290 Posted 15/02/2024 at 08:27:36
Paul #280 I think Billinge is where Leon Osman grew up (when I say "grew UP...").
Danny O’Neill
291 Posted 15/02/2024 at 08:54:25
It's always a debate. You don't have to be born or live in L4 or Liverpool for that matter to support or play for Everton.

My background is L24 and L19. I lived in Woolton for a while.

Leon Osman, born in Wigan; Alan Ball, born in Bolton; Howard Kendall, born in Country Durham; Duncan Ferguson, from Stirling in Scotland. Alex Young, Neville Southall and Kevin Sheedy… Branthwaite from Carlisle… Calvert-Lewin from Sheffield… Richarlison, Tim Howard, Landon Donovan. The list could go on.

We all love a local player to come good but, wherever they come from, it doesn't make them lesser Evertonians once they take the Royal Blue holy water.

Likewise the supporters. From Mark Murphy to my brother's friend Des (Milton Keynes) and my good friend from Warwick who I converted, which he passed on to his kids. Incidentally, his son played at Exeter yesterday. I always apologise to him as he took the Blues up on my advice in 1991!

It doesn't matter where you are born or come from. Those of you who follow from around the globe. You are as big if not a better Evertonian than me.

I loved Leon Osman. Had he done what some younger players are doing now and played on the continent, he would have been a star.

Tony Hibbert. I rated him highly. He took a lot of stick at times, but you couldn't question his desire and commitment.

When Hibbert scores – you know the rest.

A bit of a ramble, but it's still a long way to Monday!

Dave Abrahams
292 Posted 15/02/2024 at 11:32:15
I think most of us love our roots no matter where we born and I think most working class roots have changed and I'd guess not many of them, if any, have changed for the better.

I go into town to Liverpool City centre on the bus and pass many of the places which were very familiar to me, and shake my head at the state of the places now and the people who live there, it's a completely different world to the way it once was.

Manners, have to a great degree, have left the scene, so has the way people dress and behave has changed so much that it is a delight when people use them and act normally, and to be honest plenty do, but just observing the way the world is today is very depressing and sadly it isn't going to get much better.

I really hope I'm wrong but this green and pleasant land that England once was isn't very nice at all.

Dave Ganley
293 Posted 15/02/2024 at 11:40:09
Brian #252, Danny #257, you've both hit on my worst bugbear.

The RS are now delighting in someone being done for mocking Heysel, or mocking their fans whatever, and to be fair, it's wrong, I've never been into that. However, they evidently don't see the irony in a, flying the Steaua flag and b, still calling us bitter after all these years.

They even try to rewrite history when I pull them up on it saying we're bitter about the trophies they've won. I've been called bitter since 1985!! I ask them how they can reconcile with themselves for using Heysel as a tool to take the piss, to which they reply it's only a bit of banter.

It's also amazing when you mention the Steaua flag they plead ignorance as if they have no idea what you're talking about. Arseholes. Proper gets my goat that does.

Danny O’Neill
294 Posted 15/02/2024 at 11:57:39
I love my home city Dave.

As Liverpool has always been, it is welcoming to those who visit and adopt it. My brother-in-law from Somerset who has lived there since the 90s having married my sister. He is in hospital but was just glad to be taken "home" last week after being in a London hospital.

On the homeland, it's come a long way and is very well respected by those not from the city who visit.

Liverpool One, Queens Square and the Rope Walks. St George's Hall never fails to impress. The Albert Dock and now our new stadium that will generate more much needed development for the north docks as well as being an iconic figure on the river.

Sefton Park. Croxteth Hall Park, Calderstones, Woolton Camp Hill and Speke Hall.

It is unique from the rest of England in terms of it's people and culture.

As you know, for night matches, I stop over. The only area that disappoints me is Renshaw Street. Seeing the old Odeon vacant and the origInal Lewis'. An area that needs some care and attention.

I'm a proud Liverpolitan and Evertonian, but don't ever call me a Liverpudlian is what I advise people I speak too!!!

Take care Dave, hope to catch you soon.

Dave Abrahams
295 Posted 15/02/2024 at 14:53:28
Danny (294), Yes, there are many nice places to see in Liverpool and you have named many of them.

Renshaw Street isn't the only tired looking street though Danny, London Road has completely changed, not only has it changed you could be in Turkey when you visit so the culture has changed and there isn't one local pub there when there used to be eight, more if you include Pembroke Place which is an extension of London Road.

Great Homer Street is not the same, neither is Scotland Road., Islington is now a street where traffic flows, not many people walk on it because there is nothing there, only to streets which cut off from it for people going home.

Vauxhall Road is the same with many pubs and shops gone along with the communities that lived there as well as the Eldonian club and Community centre.

I think that it is different to visiting Liverpool rather than living here and, although I like my city, it was always the people I grew up with and others I worked with and socialised with that made me love it – not what was in the city.

By the way, Danny, that cinema that is vacant was called The Forum; The Odeon was in London Road, two of the many cinemas I frequented and bunked in growing up!

Yes, I hope to see you soon, Danny, it will be a pleasure.

Jamie Crowley
296 Posted 15/02/2024 at 15:08:19
Regarding Chicago, it's an absolutely fantastic city with the nicest people you'll ever meet by and large.

It's a "Big Ten" city (Big 18 now? What a joke...). The Big Ten is a collegiate conference primarily consisting of Midwest locals - Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, etc. The Midwest is known for their amicable disposition and good people. Chicago is no exception.

There is, indeed, a bit of an air of arrogance to Chicago. It's
the city in the Midwest, with college graduates finding employment in the big town in droves and making it their home. They realize it's the motor of the Midwest and do think the city superior to all others in the area. But it's not your "normal arrogance" that's a wicked character trait. It's more of a fun, I live in the town and it's awesome, kind of vibe.

Anyone thinking Chicago is a shitty town needs to actually visit and spend time there. It's simply fantastic. Yes, there's arrogant rich douchebags. And, yes, there's pockets of abject poverty with terribly high crime rates (South Chicago and the projects). But it has something like 15 million people in the metro area – you'll get that in any major city frankly.

Go to a Cubs game and talk to as many people as you can. You'll find them exceedingly agreeable, affable, and lovely.

I lived in Wisconsin for a few years and we have a sport rivalry with Chicago that is real. I hate their teams mostly. But the city? It's wonderful.

The only shit thing about Chicago is the Bears. It's as if the effort to get a quarterback drifts north, and the Packers get the gem while the Bears polish a turd. 😂

There's your 'Merican education on the Windy City. So says one out of 330 million people. But I'd bet 329 million would agree with me.

Danny O’Neill
297 Posted 16/02/2024 at 06:51:15

I forgot to mention Otterspool Promenade, where I used to walk my son. I also played football there. Jericho Lane where I now believe South Liverpool play?

Another favourite of mine, although not spectacular, was Allerton Road.

The old Parade in Speke was grim, but Speke has come a long way. Many family functions end up in the old Metal Box Social Club. Somethings don't go away despite the new Airport, the hotels and Liverpool South Parkway (Garston).

I can't comment too much on Scotland Road as, in my lifetime it was mainly a dual carriage way on the way to Goodison.

My son lived just off London Road when he was at John Moores. My mother used to love TG Hughes and I often got dragged around it to my frustration.

I preferred my days out with my Grandad in the library and museums on William Brown Street.

I believe that we have the most listed buildings in the UK outside of London. Also, a lot of film companies use the Georgian terraced area of Toxteth to replicate London.

Tony Abrahams
298 Posted 16/02/2024 at 12:47:50
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile – or in Jamie's case, explain how good that Chicago is, a great city that is mostly full of very good people.

Liverpool suffered the same type of ignorance for many years but, thanks to European money allowing for change, I think most people's conceptions that were mostly born out of ignorance, have definitely changed.

Those gun laws are very dangerous because it's very easy for anyone to be destructive, and destroy human life, imo, and it seems to happen way too much to ‘innocent people' in the great USA.

Eric Myles
299 Posted 17/02/2024 at 10:36:38
"My mother used to love TG Hughes."

Was he any relation to TJ Hughes that had a department store on London Road Danny?? :-))

I always liked going to Blacklers with me mam, it was an immense adventure ground as a kid and I ended up in the 'lost and found' a few times. It seemed you could buy anything in that place.

Alan McGuffog
300 Posted 17/02/2024 at 11:14:20
Vince Karelius... always referred to by Eddie Waring as "The Wild Bull of the Pampas". Although his name is, I think Lithuanian.

Quite a few from that part of the world settled in Widnes. Lithuania must have been grim!

Alan McGuffog
302 Posted 17/02/2024 at 11:18:13
More useless info... these new tablets seem to be working.

Those with children may remember a series of children's books about "Alfie", written by Shirley Hughes, daughter of TJ.

Her son is Ed Vulliamy who used to write in the Guardian. I'm on fire today!

Mark Murphy
303 Posted 17/02/2024 at 12:02:52
My girlfriend asked me to “kiss me where it smells”
So I took her to Widnes…
Danny O’Neill
304 Posted 17/02/2024 at 12:16:22
I stand corrected for my typo. TJ Hughes!

I've mentioned previously, found memories of walking to Walton Breck Road with my step-Grandmother.

Being allowed to go to the programme shop near the Kop as I was an avid collector as a youngster. And then meeting her back in the butcher's across the road to throw the money into his bucket. It's how he took his payment.

Off to watch the cousins. Talking to my ill brother-in-law today I told him they owe us one against Brentford. And the Luton.

He said he'd do his best!!

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.

How to get rid of these ads and support TW

© ToffeeWeb