Resistance is futile as Haaland scores twice

Brought back and told the City authorities would allow it. All fine, polite lad, I wished him luck doing this 3,000 times.

That's the understatement of the month!

I love it.

Obviously, other teams have seen through our two keepers on the bench.

What you on about? How can you complain about that?

Calvert-Lewin has conceded cheap possession too often. it's a hard job he is being asked to do, and occasionally he is excellent, but he needs to draw fouls and make better decisions.

We just need something to go decisively our way. Anything.

As Andrew K says, we made them look very ordinary for a long period. As frustrated as we all were, I expect the City fans were moaning at their laboured attempts to break us down in the first half especially.

We need some luck, again we get none.

One positive: the goal difference doesn't look too bad still – and that may become very significant.

Can't buy a break.

We didn't really try to be part of the game attacking-wise and for the first goal there were cowardly attempts by Coleman who could have been stood on Haaland and Garner who grabbed his own bollocks, turned his back and stuck a leg out backwards, either of them could and should have smothered that shot.

The second was not dissimilar as two down in their right hand corner let it go rather than, again, smothering it which allowed them out.

They weren't impressive but we were awful in effort, tactics and set-up. Other than Beto's offside goal, did we have any attempts on their goal? Piss poor!

We had no midfield until Onana came on and he couldn't find anyone to play with. And as for Calvert-Lewin, is he really interested?

We did well keeping them out that long, but no fire power up front, toothless again, Calvert-Lewin wouldn't score in the City side. Beto £20 million, seriously? Please send him back as not fit for purpose, throw Harrison and Calvert-Lewin in for free.

With the games we have coming up, if we get 6 points from the next five games, I'll be surprised.

If you think that is acceptable, then stick with your Bulldogs, is it. We didn't even manage a couple of behinds… arseholes, yes; behinds, no.

The organization and solidity that Dyche has installed is admirable and will serve us well. It's a shame we don't have a bit more pace to make use of counter opportunities.

After a tough run of fixtures we've got some winnable games coming up and 3 points against a depleted Palace next weekend is crucial. I don't know when Doucoure is back but his goal threat will be crucial.

Man City were very lucky with the first goal. Harrison did lose possession for the second. The whole Everton team are worth what was paid for Grealish. I wonder how Man City and their manager would cope with point deductions. They don't look as if they could put in a performance like Everton.

The Premier League as a regulatory body is a complete and utter sham.

We have a great defence and a poor strike force – we have to beat Palace.

Fuck the Premier League.

Just because we only lost two-nil against a side that can play good football doesn't mean we accept a beating when they don't play well. We were awful against a side who barely played any better.

Also, give Dobbin a chance next week and leave Harrison out, but we all know Dyche won't change it. He has a lot of good points, Dyche, but his lack of substitutions (at the right time), or ability to change things (when the tactics are obviously not working) is why he will never be top drawer as a manager.

I thought Harrison should have been the first man off today, apart from losing the ball for the 2nd goal, how is he never subbed?

Plus we really do need those points back.

I suggest you have another look at both goals… only this time with your glasses on.

I liked our honest endeavour, and you could see the relief from the City players once they finally scored because you could see that it wasn't an easy game for them today.

It obviously could have been harder for City but Everton currently lack any real craft, although we did look to be a bit more energetic. This should stand us in good stead over the next few months, helping us hopefully achieve a similar points tally which will move us away from the relegation places regardless of what happens with regards to our appeal.

Frustrating that the likes of Harrison goes through entire matches without actually making contact with an opposition player, the man is like a ghost off the ball.

Godfrey didn't look fit from the start. He picked something up in the game v Spurs and hasn't shook it off.

Branthwaite was unlucky with their 2nd but he was my MotM today.

Big game next Monday. Be interesting who gets the nod for the Doucoure role.

McNeil first port of call is not to go past his marker, as all good wingers do, he passes back or square. Shithouse play.

Feel sorry for Calvert-Lewin playing with Championship players around him.

Just watched Dyche say he was pleased with Harrison off the ball running. That's okay then… NOT!!!

Tell us your thoughts on how this very limited team could have won today. Believe it or not, you are not the only Blue who would love us to have gone there today and ripped City a new one.

However, I accept that we didn't because there was no possibility of it happening. Our limited team gave their all – whether you "accept" it or not. You are not a better blue, Alan.

We move on to Palace next week minus Olise and Eze. Hopefully Doucoure back for us, and I think we start a run of picking wins up again.

If Man City didn't have Haaland, we would've likely drawn.

Proud of them all.

Bigger game is Palace in 9 days. Must and will win!!

I agree with you completely. We were very well organised and scrapped throughout against the best in the business.
We knew if we made a mistake, it would be punished.

No, I don't like losing and don't accept second best but thought the team put in a very good performance for most of the game.

Yes we didn't lay a glove on them but the second goal shows what happens when you try and open up against City and lose the ball. You get punished.

I saw enough today to believe we will be okay as long as we don't lose any more points or get a glut of injuries. I cannot pick out any player today for a slagging off.

Haaland takes 2 opportunities and scores them. He barely had a sniff but took the opportunities when they came, a great striker.

But Everton didn't get mauled and a bit more quality with the final ball today, who knows… but Everton got into some decent positions mainly in the 1st half.

Hopefully 3 points next Monday v Palace, and to edge up the table.

UTFTs!

I've never said I am a better Blue or better anything. Make things up if you like or you think it puts you in a better light, entirely your decision.

But that was not a good performance from Everton — regardless of who we were playing. Giving your all doesn't make you any good if you get beaten by a side that also didn't play that well.

How could we have won? Well, by trying to, I haven't looked at any stats and rarely do but did we actually have any efforts on their goal that weren't already offside, and if so, how many and when during the game? Or doesn't it matter to you that we didn't try to score which is the general idea?

So how many more limited teams, as you put it, do we need to be a better-performing team? Come on, expert, give us the benefit of the wisdom you seem to be proclaiming or name-calling calling your fullest extent – as I seem to recall you fell back on last time.

For the second goal, Jarrad got outmuscled by Haaland but otherwise, I thought he played well, as did the majority of our squad. It's a rare mistake from him but he'll bounce back for us.

I think it's probably best to ignore Alan J T and his completely negative vibes, they're entrenched with their views that somehow even if we won 6-0 today they'd complain that if it wasn't for "dinosaur" tactics would have won 10-0.

Hoping for a positive outcome on the appeal but, if we play like we did today, I believe we'll have enough to survive; however, our season will probably be decided off the pitch with the new PSR rules or in the courts. The Premier League is a corrupt farce and independent regulation can't come soon enough.

The thing is that, when you're team isn't that great, if you try and attack, you can end up getting thrashed (think derby games that lost Martinez and Silva their jobs).

Presumably Dyche was trying to keep a clean sheet and hope we nicked one. Obvious upside is that, if it worked, we got 3 points, but on the flip side, if it didn't work, we have a worst-case scenario of a narrow defeat.

It's a matter of looking at the risk-reward ratio. Had we gone all out trying to attack – with a team full of players who can't shoot – the odds of winning would have been miniscule and the odds of getting an absolute thrashing would have been very high.

No huge complaints from me because I can't see how we could do much better with the players available. But it is maddening... that gameplan works if you can counter.

Our counters end in woeful crosses (McNeil today) or shocking shots off target when the ball falls nicely for once (Harrison). Anyway, there are winnable games ahead, and Doucoure to return.

To mention the word 'cowardly' is an insult, the team worked hard today, against the League Champions.

In case you didn't know, they last lost at home in December '22.

Overall a decent performance and I thought we were not as tired as feared. Get Doucoure back and we can gain ground in the next three matches.

Dyche looks like he just wants to manage from the stands, a much more relaxed face. The progress from the cobbled together sides is noteworthy. We may be suffering through an adjustment period which gives us more options in the future.

The match report above could have been an essay set for R/S fans to see who could make the most scathing assessment of our team. I have travelled far and wide watching us lose over the years and the long trek home is painful but I'd sooner follow Danny O'Neil's eternal optimism and try to see chinks of promise (there really are some) rather than crucify the team week after week.

I know we are all entitled to an opinion but we are a mediocre team who we would expect to lose to City and our attackers are unlikely to look decent, especially with two good midfielders absent from the starting team.

It is likely to be a while before we see consistently good performances – the early seventies was much worse than this by the way. Just dig in and support the team, however much you might dislike certain players. Things could turn around again quite quickly!

We can no longer play Calvert-Lewin up front on his own. No more.

If you think it is best to ignore it then try not mentioning it and in case it escaped your attention we didn't win or lose 6-0. I'd rather you didn't think winning 1-0 or drawing 0-0 was negative and I'd hate to hear how you might greet any 10-0 result, probably by ignoring it.

Kieran (#39);

Thank you for your more sensible approach but I tend to think you won't get much out of many games if you try not to lose rather than try to win. It probably shows how far we have fallen when we have become the bus parkers but then I was brought up on Everton just before Harry Catterick came in and like Mohammed Ali asked, "What's our name?!?"

We played to win and should still do or we'll go the way of Coventry and Southampton. Even now, we don't have to go all out but did we seriously look like scoring at any stage of this game and if not, why not?

Dom did well with little back up. From my seat, it was obvious that was our goal kick and not a corner!

Beto runs offside… clueless. Garner, Gana, Mykolenko and Branthwaite were all superb, and Onana when he came on.

We need to make subs earlier and with urgency. I would have taken Godfrey and Young off for Coleman and Patterson at half-time.

The Premier League is so unpredictable that I never expect defeat, but it is how you play against the top teams that matter, and today Everton where playing the top team, and played as well as could be expected.

The one thing about Man City I don't like is their boring keep ball when they are ahead.

Calvert-Lewin could have been better at retaining possession and tried for more cold and line balls. Beto just got caught offside, but his finish was better than either of Haaland's.

Harrison did give up possession for the second goal, but did play well. Gana stats wise was the best player in position on the pitch.

Pickford did get to the ball for the first goal but was unlucky. He did what he could to prevent the second.

We needed better use of the ball on the counter-attack but the sort of players who can deliver that against a full-strength City team are currently well outside our price range.

We have more important games coming up.

I was expecting a three maybe four nil win.

Mad do you say?

Well that's what might have happened some years ago and I refuse to accept that much time has passed, many things have changed and that things are very, very different.

I refuse to accept that they're the best team in Europe and we're the third worst team in the Premier League.

A lot of sense there, Bill, but my main point of difference might be "as well as could be expected".

The defence seems upto par but did we actually start with any midfield, or for that matter forward or attacking intent? At times I tend to think we are a one-trick pony which is mostly defending.

Injuries might not permit but I'd like to see us one day start with Gomes and Onana in midfield with more than one player in front to pass to rather than see them make us more defensively solid – albeit they should be capable of both.

Cloud 9 maybe but you have to aim at something.

We ain't the 3rd worst team in the Premier League.

We should be 12th on 29 points.

Zero shot on target.

Alehouse footy.

How did Palace manage a 2-2 draw on December 10!?

We've had 10 points wrongly deducted & will hopefully get a minimum of 6 back sometime this week, which will improve the mood significantly.

Now he, not me, is looking forward to the return of Doucouré. Another headless chicken.

Sadly we have no creativity at all, Haaland would struggle to get double figures in our team.

On to Palace, perspiration alone might be enough.

I can do honest and realistic. Or I can do scathing. But don't ask me for Pollyanna pap.

I think you'll find on review that is a pretty accurate description of the game we played. Let me know if there's something you think I got wrong.

However, I'm sure the official website and our wonderful local journos will put a nice spin on it for you, if that's what you really want?

The point I was trying to make, though, is that City are in a different galaxy to us so getting beat was more or less a foregone conclusion, whether people want to accept that or not. Just my opinion.

I thought De Bruyne was managed quite well by Everton, but his pass forced Haaland to come on the right side of Branthwaite to give him problems and set up the finish. That was simple play and world class.

For the second goal, basic mistakes again with three players unable to retain the ball and poor passing gave City the ball and they got upfield against an open defence and wrapped the game up.

These very basic mistakes spoiled what I thought was a good performance by the Blues. Again, in the last two-thirds of the field, we are struggling to get the vital goals, but I believe we have enough in the squad to get the vital points necessary to get us up the league, especially with some of our hard-won points being given back to us.

They have a bench full of players who would walk into any team on the planet. We have a threadbare squad who gave their all today and I applaud their effort.

Roll on Palace!

On top of the usual gaps in the Emptyhad, it's amazing how many of their supporters leave well before the 90, never mind the 10 minutes extra time.

Be interesting to see how many of them even turn up when the glory days of Pep are over.

It all bodes well for us for when a shaky-looking Palace side comes to Goodison next weekend, which is a very winnable game, and hopefully we can take all three valuable points.

The squad they have compared to ours is just ridiculous, a bit like your scathing criticism of the team. I don't think I've ever read a positive post from you.

Positives: We defended well for 2/3s of the game and kept a team who are known for creating chances to very little.

Pickford didn't have to make a save (apart from the goals).

Tarkowski and Branthwaite are forming a real strong partnership.

Mykolenko kept Foden quiet.

Negatives:

We lack pace, creativity and clinical finishing.

But we all know this; we won't be relegated due to losing to Man City, it's the teams in and around us we need to beat. We shouldn't be so hard on players who have tried their best against a top, top team.

The next few matches are more winnable and will more likely have a bigger impact on our position in the Premier League.

I thought we played really well and the difference was De Bruyne and Haaland.

99.9% in the bar (of around 60 people) thought we deserved a point. The 0.1% was the only City fan I know in West Sussex!

We are matching these top teams despite our lack of quality and we have enough to see us safely into the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock. Our main opponents are the Premier League – the twats!

UTFT

We did as well as we could in the position we are in, against the best team in Europe. No one likes defeat, but they simply had more, and we almost held out.

Focussing on Everton, I thought Pickford was increasingly more commanding in his box. Tarkowski the leader did what he does and put his body on the line as always.

Branthwaite, although he made the odd mistake, including for one of their goals, just oozes class. Then again, it was against the machine that is Haaland. I hope we can keep hold of him. He is going to be a special player.

Idrissa ran on batteries to defy his years. Mykolenko continues to play with steady consistency.

They targeted our right flank with that very impressive left winger Doku. He gave our right full-back a torrid time.

I can't be too harsh on the boys today. They did as well as they could given the gulf in class. You could not challenge the effort. When you have De Bruyne and Grealish on the bench amongst others, it demonstrates where you are.

On we march to the next matches that are ahead. See you all there.

I appreciate that everyone is entitled to express their opinions but I believe that your opinions are as David West [70] describes them, scathing generally, and over critical.

It's my opinion, for what it's worth, that Everton had no option but to play a defensive game, and if they hadn't, they would have lost by more than 2-0.

I'm sure that no-one takes pleasure from a defeat but, when they lose to a team like Manchester City, it comes as no surprise and they can't be expected to adopt an all-out attacking game. I'm quite sure that if they did, and lost, there would be an outcry from people like yourself.

True, the defence played well but what about the Championship-level front three? And Harrison playing the 90 minutes instead of being the first off?

But I cannot understand why Harrison played the full 90 minutes again?

We lost a close contest against the English and European Champions on their home patch.

I had to wait until 1977 to witness Everton beat the cousins.

That nearly came off today.

Onto Palace and Brighton

I've explained myself.

We were in that for a long period.

See you at Goodison and Brighton.

I would hope for a minimum of 5 points from our next 3 games and maybe even 6 or 7 which would be enough to get us out of the relegation zone. Of course it may not go that way but we can't keep relying on the appeal process and the xG Gods to help us out!

We did the best we could against probably the best team in Europe.

Loads of positives from a game that we were very close to getting a (well-earned) result.
UTFT

Justice for the 39!!

*changes metaphor.

Yes, we were well behind on points and they managed to knock us down twice, but they couldn't knock us out.
Not exactly Wepner Vs Ali but nobody can fault the effort against a very decent team...those four subs ffs, just two of them even at their respective ages - Walker and KdB - would send us shooting up the table.

Not our worst day at the office.

Match Stats, Everton v Man City
Shots: 5 9
On Target: 1 3 (One was lucky)

Your information is incorrect: Man City had no shots on target in the first half.

Still, never mind, there's always next season.

I think someone should explain to wonder boy Branthwaite that he should try competitive elevation with his clearances, he's been guilty a few times this season of poor clearances that led to goals as today.

Also teach him not to turn his back on his opponent which again led to a goal. Raw we don't need, finished article we do.

I blame our away fans. Bunch of Fairweather Norwegian yuppies. If Ian Edwards and Jonathan Tasker had been there, we'd have won 10-0.

The difference between us and Luton is they will have a go, we won't.

I "fell back" last time because I considered what you said. I fundamentally disagree with you this time. Not name-calling, by the way, nor am I an expert. I was proud of what our team did today, you weren't.

My view today is that we needed to defend for our lives and hope for a break.

The "better blue" comment, was, on reflection, unfair. I'll take that back.

When we have possession, we usually give it away with a poor pass and Harrison doing just that led directly to their breakaway and second goal.

Our other problem is, as we all know, our complete lack of a goalscorer. Calvert-Lewin isn't, and never will be, a reliable scorer.

Our season starts v Palace, next week!

I did not say Man City had shots on target in the first half. I never mentioned City!

I repeat, Everton had no shots on target, no corners in the whole game.

Man City never went into third gear as they had their midweek Champions League game in mind.

Luton “having a go” isn't the difference between us and them; it is (in your opinion) a difference between us and them. More importantly, other differences include:

We have earned 29 points. They haven't.
We have better players.
We have a more experienced manager.
We have a larger and better fan base.
Only four teams have conceded fewer goals than us.
We have successfully won Premier League relegation battles.
We've just had a tough run of fixtures. They haven't.

Should I go on?

Not easy I know, but today's signs augur well for the future. We may also get some points back if early reports are to be believed.

The future's bright. The future's Blue!

I'd also like to know the identity of those responsible for turning us into the 21st Century version of late 20th Century Coventry City, replete as they thought they'd be with their very own "fabulous" new stadium.

At Man City, our team did everything we could rationally expect of them but the decades-long mediocrity introduced to our club saw that we failed, again, whilst they who get off scot-free with their hideous obscenely wealthy owners (to which our right-wing government present a gaping arse to fuck in every circumstance) enjoy never-ending media adulation.

It should be funny – but it's anything but.

Do not mistake evident relief that we lost no ground on those around us today when playing the toughest fixture of all 38 for, in your misguided word, "celebrating".

That is up there with the couple of posters who said that the gaffer and the team would be judged by what happened at City away.

I'd say Spurs and Newcastle for starters.

Spurs largely squandered only the Bale money as far as I'm concerned but they have a fabulous new stadium and, even having sold Kane, are in with a very good chance of top-level European football next season. Right now, we're in their shade, big time.

Newcastle have always had a fabulous "old" stadium (way better than Goodison in this century) and, like Man City, a nation-state owner to whom our government always present a spread-cheek arse — period!

Right now, we're in their shade too, big time, as we are in comparison to the vast majority of Premier League clubs, regardless of the deduction of an unheard of 10 points.

So we've become the School of Not Very Scientific Defending?

Still, as long as we can still beat Luton, Palace and Burnley, the here and now is Moshiri's "games we expect to lose" as most seem to have already settled for Mediocrity FC mid-table finishes — but we haven't even managed that for at least the last few seasons.

But hey, it makes for nail-biting last games and dramatic appeals for excitement, not to mention being grateful for being allowed on the same pitch as the "World's Best".

I couldn't get to watch the game because of work commitments, so cannot comment on it as I only caught snippets, but it has all gone a bit ridiculous, hasn't it!?

Everton did have a starting team almost made up of English players – one local (and he was bought from Man Utd). I can somehow still relate to Everton, but it is getting harder and harder. How City fans can relate and feel it is their team, I am not sure. All personal taste, I guess.

Some of you are mad (in a good way)!

Currently, unable to splash the cash by the Premier League rules, they have actually spent fairly wisely over the last few years with some excellent balanced buys. Erm, Gordon, for one.

Newcastle are a well-run club on the evidence of the last few years. Trippier on a steal, Livramento on a relative steal, Barnes not overpriced imo, Isak, brilliant wheeling and dealing. They will be fine.

And, erm, your other missile, Spurs, on the fringes of Champions League, with, in recent memory – Vicario, Udogie, Van de Ven, Porro, Richarlison, Maddison, and I have a hunch that Werner will work out well.

Think before you press submit Kieran.

On the brighter side, I hope that the Swift Chiefs beat SF.

The away matches are special and the atmosphere electric.

The travelling blue army mad?

I would say we are obsessive, bordering on possessed and beyond cure or exorcism!!

My immediate family are all Everton. But my cousins are a mix. My two cousins had an Everton dad. One was blue, one red.

My poor favourite cousin is a singleton in a family of reds. My sister's husband red as are two of his sons. The other a fantastic Everton follower.

It might still be acceptable for our wonderful neighbours to fly a Steau Bukarest flag on the Kop but I suppose it's better to turn a blind eye sometimes!

Looks like Man City are starting their title charge now and Haaland just looks unstoppable at times. We just don't have the quality to put away the chances we huff and puff to create. But we should expect some better luck over the next few games, unless the levels of performance drop off.

It's really now time for one or two to step up and deliver some goals to move us up the table. We can only help ourselves now on the pitch — it's truly a fight to the bitter end.

Excluding Haaland's goal, Man City only had one further shot on target.

Godfrey had a shot on target saved by their goalkeeper.

It certainly wasn't meant in a derogatory or pejorative way - for example, "He is mad on Everton", more of a compliment than anything.

I watched my first game in 1980, I have been a season ticket holder and have been to Goodison more times than I can remember. My gran used to leave ladders outside of her house in Walton Village for when I got a lift to the match so we could park up outside her house on match days.

My dad regularly played against Brian Labone and my family has a long history of being Evertonians. I was never an away dayer due to finances, my need to follow bands up and down the country, and my love of boxing – my wallet would not stretch that far in my teens and 20s. Then I left the UK in 2001 anyway.

My last match at Goodison was an age ago… Koeman was in charge. Although I'm now back in the UK, I work weekends mostly, and as much as I really dislike the modern game – my affinity has always been strong with Everton, watching almost every game, spreading the word in many countries – though I could not bring myself to watch any games under Benitez. That was just plain wrong.

So yeah it was a compliment.

I see you taking some criticism for your forthright comments but, in fairness, you are stating, albeit generally, what a lot of Evertonians feel about the what is the result of the hopeless running of our Club over recent years and beyond.

The issue is the general versus the specific criticisms. Again in fairness, the observation by others regarding Luton 'having a go' also hurts by comparison because it's true. However, we do have 4 of some of the defenders in the Premier League, in Pickford, Tarkowski, Branthwaite, and Mykolenko (on recent form), but our forward players are generally not there yet.

For me, the jury is still out on our manager in terms of his defensive bias, and his lack of nouse with substitutions, and I wonder how robust the backup support structure is in these troubled times.

I fully expect the worst from the Premier League regarding our position, as history has shown, a clear path of negative bias, with the VAR and refereeing generally set against, for example – us being the only club not to be awarded a penalty so far this season shows.

The message is to keep hoping, be positive, and cut the team some slack in these difficult times...

If the VAR really wanted to stitch us up, they had the opportunity to do so. I was very relieved they didn't seem to look at it too closely. UTFT

Our peer group is Bournemouth, Brentford, Palace, Forest, Luton, Burnley and Sheffield Utd – the rest might afford the odd point here and there but the likes of Man City and Liverpool are as near to banker losses as you can get.

Our aim is to be above 3 of the aforementioned mini-league and by 10 points no less; it's about as tough as it gets.

Probably contingent on what the footballing gods want in their weird persecution of this club. Is it to have the first game at BMD in the Championship or delight in the mother of false dawns by relegating us after one season of unimaginable expectation there?

All together now, channelling your best Sir Laurence Olivier:

"A sheikh, a sheikh, my kingdom for a sheikh!"

A classy champion stood there with a reach advantage and jabbed and jabbed his left hand in the face of the gallant challenger who shook his head and marched on till in the tenth round when he fell for the right-hand sucker punch.

A fair result that showed how plucky we are, how we never give up and how we simply do not actually score very often and when we do it is a wonder goal or from a set piece scramble.

Calvert-Lewin rarely gets a good cross or even a through ball. As Christine Foster explained in a recent perceptive post, it is difficult for a striker who is expected to help out in midfield and defend all set pieces to have the energy and calmness to be a clinical striker, especially when the service he gets is so meagre.

Mykolenko has received quite a bit of praise lately, but his crosses are frequently overhit, they aren't picking out a man. Though quite often he hasn't got more than one man up when he breaks forward.

Fortunately the three promoted teams are helping us as best they can and I really hope the iniquitous 10-point deduction is at least halved. Life goes on.

Over the last few seasons, we have had a boardroom problem, we no longer have any surviving people at the top, apart from the owner, we have worked alongside the Premier League, trying to be as open and cooperative as we could; we sold Richarlison when advised to do so, we sold Gordon to try and balance the books, but still got shafted for a 10-point deduction.

We have faced the most farcical set of officials, who refuse to give us a penalty, refuse to give an opposing player a sending off, are second highest to having penalties awarded against us, have given clubs around us the incentive to battle harder, with the likes of Everton and Forest giving them two more lifelines.

After we made the 10 points up, they then hit us with a possible second breach, have stated once the hearing is complete, they will not make some of the minutes available to the public.

Even when questenioned, Masters said I hope in the next week or so an announcement for takeover approval, yet they still drag this on, other teams never had to wait this long, it is either yes or no, they have had more than enough time to give their answer.

Everything possible is going against our football club, is it any wonder we are where we are? No other team around us has any issues, apart from trying to win a game, no corrupt officials dictating the fortunes of a football team.

It really is us against the rest, we just have to ride this out until they announce our appeal, our new owners approved or declined, a bit of a fairer level playing field in our games.

By all means have a pop at lack of goals, not getting crosses in, the real issue is the most blatant corrupt disadvantage our football club faces each time they cross the whitewash, we are getting screwed over, week after week.

I would take a step back and the look at the bigger picture our football club is facing every single day, on and off the pitch.

In light of this, I thought the back four defended well and doggedly and the midfielders harried and competed. Young doubled up well to support Godfrey and they closed down Doku really well.

I also cant blame Pickford as they were two good finishes, especially the first goal. Although Branthwaite came off second-best against Haaland for their second goal, he wont be the first or last to be outplayed by him. Gueye and Garner ran themselves into the ground and no one with an eye on the game can fault their effort or grit.

Aside from the Man City match, I see the problem is that our three attackers are almost always set up (instructed?) to be auxiliary defenders. They spend most of their time facing our goal, running towards our goal or passing the ball backwards towards our goal. When we have the ball, Calvert-Lewin drops deep towards our players to try to get a touch or his head on the ball. He hardly runs in behind a defender.

Harrison spends most the game ‘buzzing about' ,harrying defenders. He hardly runs behind and when in a position to cross then either plays the ball backwards or overhits his cross. I can't find data for his crossing rate success but I would be surprised if it's more than one per game.

I would make the same point about McNeil but we have seen in the past that he can be effective and he may just be off-form or distracted by family issues.

The balance of the team looks wrong and we seem to have three players that are nominally attackers but act as supplemental midfielders or, on some occasions, supplemental defenders. I know Dyche has to work with what he has and I do think he is doing well under the circumstances but he needs to change the balance somehow.

I would start with benching Harrison, as I do not know what he contributes aside from buzzing about and chasing down, and give Dobbin a few starts behind Calvert-Lewin.

We are mad. Intact we are insane!

1976 for me.

It's infefectious Cradle to grave. Everton is for life 💙

If we had gone with the idea of playing open attacking football, they would have scored a bagful. Okay, you might say that's defeatist but I think that's the reality of the gap in class between the top and bottom of the league.

Overly critical and we all being Evertonians? What can I say, oh yeah, "Nil satis nisi not optimum".

Still, there are quite a few who think that motto should go as well.

My apology to you both. You're right. We indeed had one shot on target.

Chelsea, Man City and QPR

All had been allowed to break the glass ceiling and not worry about the consequences of high spending.

The difference is the Premier League have put rules in place effectively preventing that happening ever again. Newcastle Utd and Aston Villa being prime examples.

Man City and Chelsea just continued spending whilst QPR spent lots but didn't have the same spending power and imploded.

We are a mess and I am not defending the way we have been run but we are in the middle of a perfect shit storm.

Off the pitch: Ukraine war, Covid, new stadium, PSR, unnamed player! Whilst on the pitch: instability, lack of long-term planning, changing managers, random recruitment especially around players with no resale value — have left us in the shit.

Most clubs are walking a tightrope, hence the lack of spending in January. Forest are vulnerable. Brentford and Bournemouth have spent big for them and must be close to their limits.

All clubs are spending just to stay in the Premier League. There are 5 teams that have a realistic chance of winning the title: Man City, Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal, as they can all just keep on spending.

As many said when Bill found us our billionaire: "Be careful what you wish for" — whatever the Greek is for that.

"Quite a few"?

Name one.

I remember the Southampton fans cursing us when we poached Koeman. Bet they love our plight. How fucking bad has it been?

As for a new motto... just shorten our present one to: Nil.

I took a slight liberty and looked at your post in terms of tangible outcomes: trophies. Also, in terms of spending, they both spent fortunes going back to the '90s chasing gold.

Paul Ferry,

See above.

‘Still, there are quite a few who think that motto should go as well.'

Where'd you get that Tom-tit from, Alan?

It was bad enough some beauts banging on about Z-Cars and the siren without introducing the motto into the list of things that need binning, even if we rarely live up to it these days.

Maybe we can change our name to Shite FC while we're at it, that's been accurate for a while now.

"Still, there are quite a few who think that motto should go as well."

I've never once heard anybody on here suggest that. Anybody else, step forward please. Watch this space.

Since we have neither, we are left with a squad that is about the 15th best in the Premier League, with Dyche overperforming by getting us to 11th place.

No-one believes that is good enough. But it is considerably better than Championship football — which is where we would be without Dyche.

Johnny Todd Techno Version

Got to get a grip of myself.

This side believe that, due to our past history, no matter what the make-up of the sqaud, no matter what financial difficulties the manager and DoF are fighting against to put out a decent team, we should still play like we have Sheedy, Heath and Trevor Steven on the pitch, against The Premier League and European Champions.

On the other side, you have guys who take on board the predicament the manager, DOF and players find themselves in. We live in the present, we understand a loss to Man City isn't the end of our season and, relative to the situation and squad we are able to field, we didn't fair too bad for 60 minutes.

We know the team isn't good enough, we know it's unacceptable for Everton to bobb around the bottom of the table, but we support the effort shown, if it's shown.

It's about knowing what we are capable of; this team is probably capable of mid-table, anything more would be an over-achievement.

When people start to realise it's not 1987, we haven't a pot to piss in, Bournemouth and Luton are spending more than us and we are still doing okay points-wise (with no deduction), then they may live in 2024.

Greek would be: ήρθα είδα ότι χάθηκα

Someone will probably come on, however, and accuse you of accepting mediocrity.

When's the next anti-mediocrity parade, by the way?

Alan, your motto could be "tu nescio quid tibi de..." Google translate it!!!!

Some on here can't accept our situation, they won't back it, until it gets better then they will be marching about how they have supported us through the good and bad times.

Supporter: 1. a person who approves of and encourages a public figure, political party, policy, etc

Can some really class themselves as a supporter???

I don't approve or encourage the way the club has been run; however, I do approve and encourage the team and what Dyche is trying to do, against the odds, with his hands tied.

You could even say I'm a supporter!!!

I think you're flogging a dead horse, but at least you are doing so eloquently. It always amuses me when I'm accused of 'accepting mediocrity', or better still, 'happy clapping'. It reaffirms my self-image of being a loyal and passionate fan.

Those who accuse positive posters of accepting mediocrity would have us go gung-ho every game, irrespective of the squad, thereby getting battered regularly and finishing in a less than mediocre position.

Often living in the past and sometimes unpleasantly personal, always misguided.

I wonder will there be a production in 30 years time: "Dyche's Way"?

I was actually made up when we signed him on loan for a year, based on what I had seen from Leeds cameos. Now I am almost, dreading him being picked, because he runs the opposite channel to what he is used to, and invariably runs down blind alleys, with no end product!

Pretty sure I know you Ray, did you live in the Dingle once, married to a lady called Rose? I was with her sister Mary for years! Hope so!

Agree on Harrison. I was snowed by seeing his highlights on MotD. Over 90 minutes, he reminds me of Cleverley or Rodwell: an athletic guy who has little understanding or ability to constantly impact a game of football.

Brent(#140); And you a regular on here have never read that? Does that come under Ray's "Tom-tit'?

Sorry, Brent, just re-read your #140 and of course you, as pedantic as you are, couldn't have heard it here.

I speak only for myself and as for Everton, it maybe isn't "Must try harder" as there is effort there but we seem intent on being difficult to beat by sacrificing creating scoring chances in order to bolster defence.

Blame it on the quality of the playing squad if you want; if it wasn't for the likes of Pickford and Tarkowski, I might think it may be because of where we source players but I tend to put it down to the tactics.

If you think it is good enough or acceptable to only beat those teams at our level, then that is your choice, but it isn't mine.

I thought the defence including Branthwaite played well against an incredible Man City team (that's been built with no regard to FFP).

To have no shots on our goal into the 2nd half shows great discipline. Now we need to beat the teams around, hopefully with Doucouré back and fit.

Jarrad is a fantastic player and is only going to get better.

As I keep saying, be patient with him. He is young and makes mistakes. Most players do.

Watch the Tarkowski interview.

Realism. The boys done well.

I have witnessed Keown being 'professional' before. He managed not to get sent off on the two occasions.

With reference to your comparison with Luton, you state: "We have a more experienced manager".

That did us a lot of good when we've been beaten by them in the league and the cup this season, both at home!

Dyche has a total win mentality, so he needed it stopped in the Cup if Everton were to get back on track in the Premier League with a limited squad and point deductions.

A league season has peaks and troughs. We've had a very difficult recent set of fixtures, while Luton have been on the crest of a wave of momentum.

He's been one of the very few shining lights in a shitshow of a season and if people are slagging him for one mistake then they really do need to have a word with themselves. And if you're going to slag him, or not, get his fucking name right, the lad deserves that at least!

I know Keown on MotD said he stayed watching the ball for too long and should have been watching Haaland more, yet how often do we hear these same pundits criticizing players for not watching the ball?

I think Jarrad Branthwaite will be England's centre-back and possible captain in the not too distant future, it's a long time since I have seen such composure in a centre-back.

I know some have compared him to John Stones and that's a fair comparison but for me Jarrad is more dominant in the air than Stones and I also think he is a better reader of the game than Stones.

Mind, so many comparing him to Stones just shows what a talent he is. Sadly like the last highly talented youngster we had, he will no doubt be playing for a top club, just as Rooney did, so enjoy him while we can.

I am old enough to remember when Everton was a top club hoovering up talent from smaller poorer clubs, not being a feeder club ourselves. Well done, Bill & Co.

My dad grew up in the Dingle and worked the ships then on the tugs. Apparently I have an uncle called Brian who still lives there but the family lost contact years ago.

I think he has a couple of sons but not sure. The south end is like a village – everyone has a connection or two.

If you get the chance, Try to catch Martin Keown's MotD assessment of Jarrad for the second Man City goal. No snide put-down. No "He's better than that" shite, just good constructive criticism and advice from an old pro to a young one.

Never liked Keown when he first became a pundit but he has grown into the role and offers good measured opinion... The BBC won't put up with that for much longer.

Rugby league is back Thursday mate, a nice Hull Derby to start the season off.

If you get the chance, Danny, sit back and try and catch some of the game, forget the rules, just admire how a referee has full control of a game without interference, how the VAR type system they use puts football to shame.

If a team scores and the ref is unsure, he will go to the big screen, miked up, you will hear him say either "I have a try (or no try), can you check the grounding? You will then get the big screen replay and hear him say to the ref "I have a try" or "No try", if it is not clear, they have to go with the refs on field decision.

The people in the booth will never advise the ref to look at something,the ref is in total charge of the game, the only time those in the booth will interact is if the ref asks them.

Puts var to shame how rugby league use their technology, you will be sat there Danny thinking Christ it works so well why can they not use the same in football, and leave the ref to ref the game, instead of jumping in.

You will not see a player go to ground holding his head either for a slight touch, if a player is on the ground you can guarentee someone has clocked him one.

I know a few have no interest in rugby league, but it's worth even just a 20 minute view just to see how good the video technology is compared to football.

Man City in particular seem favoured by the refs and the premier league itself. It could be because of who the owners are, whatever the reason we and other clubs are starting to get annoyed. Look at the past few seasons, the handball in their half that would have given us an extra point and possibly Liverpool an edge to win the league.

A perfect example in today's match, Calvert-Lewin vs Rodri just after 24 minutes. Did you see how Calvert-Lewin did a great dummy when he looked like he was going down the wing? Rodri fell for it and moved to the outside to block the ball.

Instead, Calvert-Lewin moved his body slightly and the ball was moving along the pitch and going to go past Rodri who, realising he was the last man, did what was in effect a rugby tackle and pulled Calvert-Lewin off the pitch. The result, no red, not even a yellow card just a free-kick.

Fast breakaways through City's defence is how Palace scored 2 against and Rodri knew how fast Calvert-Lewin is and was prepared (to cheat) to take one for the team.

The situation with Calvert-Lewin is now becoming damaging to the team spirit. He had no shots on target, his passing was careless on breakaways. He was10 feet behind the only possible pass that McNeil could get across which was a brilliant cross, just needed a tap in.
Yet Calvert-Lewin was afforded 77 minutes – no wonder Beto was offside for two good situations, all the other attackers are wondering what they have to do to get more time. They are running into spaces to try and get passes, unlike Calvert-Lewin.

The rest of the team are working their socks off and I am sorry, Calvert-Lewin didn't seem interested, his hunger has gone. Calvert-Lewin got quite a lot of negative comments from pundits for this game.

Dyche must take some blame here. Asked in the press conference 'Is Calvert-Lewin doing any extra training?" Dyche replied "No, he does not need to".

I follow Wigan Warriors, Roby will be a huge loss for you, but you've signed a very good player in Daryl Clarke.

I don't confess to know too much about Rugby League. Likewise NFL. But there are parallels. RL with its 6 tackles. American football with its 4 downs. All about gaining territory.

Mind, the BBC reporting on the Superbowl today has been more focused on Taylor Swift.

That scenario reminded me of how Iwobi unfortunately always seemed to play his worst pass or got caught in possession when we had the majority of our players ahead of him.

And no feigning injury either, for a reason – they try to not show pain as if they do they can expect a 110kg prop running at them the next play!

Only difference to Rugby Union, the hooter sounds bang on 80 minutes, unless the ball is still moving, the game is over when the player is tackled or the other team drop on the ball.

I'm sure you can let me off my sins of the past. 😂

I we would just stop the clock rather than officials covert subjectiveness.

I'm often intrigued with American football when I visit… it goes on for hours though.

My US friends got me into following College (University) rather than NFL so when I do watch, it's the Texas Longhorns.

But the players and coaches just get on with it. None of this berating the officials, questioning their judgement. It was refreshing compared to what football players behave like.

The reason Calvert-Lewin is in a drought is the way the team is set up, the jobs the manager is telling the players to do.
They point to the numbers of chances created (but not converted) as some sort of justification of team selection but it isn't.

The team is set up and built in the image of Burnley: gritty defence from 11 outfield players.

I don't want a centre forward on his own, jumping for high balls that, even if he does win, are just pointless as there is no one to play it off to or run on to.

Harrison and McNeil are primarily there for their industrious work rate, Onana, Gueye, Garner the same. Doucoure is not creative but does have the knack of being in the right place at the right time.

Calvert-Lewin is no Haaland, he is no Lukak,u but give him the right ball in and he can finish. He cannot score by the corner flag, on the half-way line or in his own penalty box.

Ancelotti got the best from him because he set the team up with providers. It's a soulless task playing as a forward for Everton, we only see an attacking set-up when we are chasing a game and put 3 attackers on for the last 10 minutes: Dobbin, Beto, Chermiti, what on earth do we expect?

So it's no wonder Calvert-Lewin has no confidence, one or two possible half-chances a game and the other 88 minutes running his tripe off chasing pointless balls and waiting for support by the corner flag.

So... do we have the wrong players or the wrong mix? Both. in Dyche's eyes, prevention is better than score. So Dobbin is sacrificed because his defensive duties come first.

We may be better organized, harder to beat, but we are blunt, totally lacking in creativity, trying to use defensive blunt instruments from set plays as our sole threat when we need creativity and inventiveness.

The team has attributes, but the name of the game is winning, not hanging on.

Yes, I like the Stones, Muddy Waters and Wilson Pickett great to watch, on DVDs, never seen them live. Same as Wigan Warriors, supported them for a long time, well before they added Warriors to their name, well before Billy Boston played for them but I've never seen them live. I hate St Helens rugby team even though the Derby between them and Wigan has got nothing to do with me!!

By the way, Brian, my post about the Stones, Beatles etc wasn't on this thread was it? Which one was it on?

I used to watch Everton on a Saturday and Wigan on a Sunday, home and away, until Friday night rugby came in and Sky TV for football. I still get the home games for Everton, but not many Wigan games these days.

You will have had the pleasure of watching Eric Ashton play for Wigan.

Sadly TV has dictated both sports.

I saw more movement and will to get forward from Beto and Dobbin during their brief cameos than I did from Calvert-Lewin and Harrison during their 80 minutes on the pitch.

Yes, Beto missed a sitter the other week but in this game, even though he was offside, he beat Ederson from the edge of the box with a properly struck shot – and Ederson did try to stop it going in.

Dobbin actually tried to beat his man when he came on.

We have to start giving opposition defences something to think about in open play.

Hanging on doesn't win you games.

And Calvert-Lewin. He's no Harry Kane, but give him the right supply and he can score.

It's like when some call for two strikers. If you don't supply them with the right balls, it doesn't matter how many strikers you have on the pitch and you expose the midfield.

As you say, we have industrious, hard working players, but we lack creativity.

But, we do occasionally play some good stuff. We just lack that killer punch.

We're not that bad. Get our points back (or some of them), and we're in a relatively comfortable position.

Palace next. Big game.

There are still places in London that serve jellied eels. The thought of it turns me green! Even my dogs who eat slugs would turn their noses up at that.

Nobody's perfect … not even me!!

A long way to go until Monday. There's something in this one for quite a few generations.

I thought it might lighten the mood.

Keep fighting blues.

Yes, I remember Eric Ashton, I think he was responsible for supplying Billy Boston with many of his tries.

Mark (200), As a peace offering, one of my favourite Rugby League players was Vince Karalous(sic) of St. Helens, I think he was called “The wild bull of the Pampas” after his performances v Australia, I think his brother also played for St Helens and they had a large scrapyard in the town.

Nowhere better to have a scrapyard than St Helens. That's a joke, Mark!!

Enjoyed those few minutes Danny, some great memories there.

To further lighten the mood, here's a question for anyone interested: Name the Everton striker who scored in a derby game versus Liverpool and his grandad who a famous film star.

It wasn't a guy who also claimed to have had a spot in the Boys Pen, was it?!

I also worked with Tony Chambers, who I think ended up as Widnes Chairman... his wit was of the more acerbic nature, he used to rip the shit out of the top Liverpool guy, who like many hadn't been to an actual game since Billy Liddel – if then.

Both top blokes.

I used to have a business in Widnes and I remember under Doug Lawton they won everything, The Premiership and the Challenge Cup, probably Rugby's best ever coach.

He returned to the club some years later and he started signing top Rugby Union players such as Martin Offiah and Johnathan Davies, think they paid Llanelli £225,000 for him which was a lot of money in those days.

Vince Karaulius, who all good judges reckon was the toughest guy ever to have played Rugby. Alex Murphy, who played with Vince at St Helens said if Vince said it was Christmas, you didn't argue with him.

When he managed Widnes, they won 2 trophies under him in 1975, the Floodlight Cup and the Lancashire Trophy. He also went on to win the Challenge Cup in 1975.

Danny - Eddie Kavannagh getting tackled by a copper in 1966. He's still got my autograph book!!

Never did get a ticket so watched the match outside a TV shop in Wembley High Street with a hundred Evertonians. The terrified manager of the shop who thought his window might go in was happy when we had a whip round and gave him a hatful of change. Not sure it would have happened if we lost, mind.

Vince Karalius was from Widnes and the scrapyard was in Widnes. He won the World Cup with Great Britain in 1960.

Legend has it that he dived off the Widnes bridge into the Mersey. Probably after a skinfull. That was the old bridge.

No, it wasn't him, the fella who asked this question had his fellow drinkers giving every wrong answer under the sun before he was finally asked to name the two people, his answer was Imre Varardi and his grandad, Oliver Hardy.

The fella was doused with glasses of bitter, Guinness and mild for his trouble.

I'm relieved that Vince did win his honours with St Helens and I thought he had too much class to have a business in St Helens or even live there!!

Sorry Mark, even though you did have the sense to escape from your hometown, didn't you?

I can't say the same about Naughton Park, that was a dump.

Varardi and Oliver Hardy made me laugh, but not as much as your "I hate St Hellens" comment.

I don't believe a word of it. I just don't think you could control that particular cat as it slipped from your grasp and somehow got among the pigeons.

When our lad was about 12 or 13, we went to a family celebration in the function room at Knowsley Road. One of my Mrs relations and his wife came over, they used to Welcome foreign (Aussie & New Zealanders) coming over to Saints and show them the ropes about living over here, Supermarkets, Doctors etc.

There had been a game that afternoon and most of the players were in the lounge so he took him down and he met all the players from Saints who were local and still having a pint.

His favourite player was Kevin Ward who was a big tough Yorkshireman who ate razor blades and light bulbs for afters.
He broke his thumb in the first half of a game at Naughton Park, stayed on the pitch. After half-time, he came out with it strapped up and played the full game.

I would love to see him on the coaching staff at Everton picking up the divers who go down after wafted by the breeze someone's shorts had caught him.

This season is going to be the death knell, I fear, as the game has been dumbed down that much, half the players from each side won't be on the pitch long.

Living close to Widnes, I am not a fan. No disrespect to Widnesians. One of my best mates is from the area streets away from the Rugby ground.

I do remember seeing Martin Offiah drive past in his sponsored car once.

"Be a flyer with Martin Offiah" dressed on the side!!

Danny, Chariots Offiah, wasn't it?

Hopefully catch some of you on Monday and then worry about getting home.

Nasty there Brent and your spelling was atrocious, 'throw' not 'through'!

Never mind, I forgive you, and here's a genuine question which I got right away, well half of it.

Name two well-known Liverpool-born entertainers who appeared in a Cowboy film and the name of the film? I got the two entertainers but not the name of the film.

And no bleedin' googling to get the answers!!

In the Rugby Union World Cup Final, England's Martin Johnson was incensed over a penalty decision; and the 6'-7" 19-stone Johnson towered over and berated the referee, Andre Watson. Watson, cool as a cucumber, simply gave Johnson a withering stare, said 'I wasn't aware this was a fucking debate' and walked away.

In a Great Britain v Australia Rugby League match, a GB player, Kevin Ashcroft appeared to strike an Aussie player, who was prostrate on the ground. The referee and Ashcroft were both stood over the player, when the Ref said: "Well Ashy, there's only thee and me here... and I never hit 'im!"

But I think they get it more right consistently than in football.

No Buster wasn't in it Mark, he wasn't a Scouser he was from St Helens!

Often when a player tries to speak, the ref will say, "This isn't a conversation, it's me telling you what is happening and why" or words to that effect. But it's useful for the viewers.

Regarding toughness, a year or two back, we saw on TV a player sustain a gruesomely obvious dislocated kneecap. He just thumped it back in place with his fist and limped back into the action!

Kenneth Cope was definitely a Liverpool lad but he wasn't in this film.

I think it was made in the sixties, I remember I saw it on the Madge, better known as The Majestic.

I just checked on the cast of the film to make sure Kenneth Cope wasn't in the film; he wasn't but there was at least another two Liverpool born entertainers in it, one of them very well known and liked.

Don't know if anyone else has answered your question but I will.

Everton striker Imre Varadi his grandad... Oliver Hardy, my god that's an arl one.

No disrespect and not being critical, but how many supporters believe that this is because of the 10 pt deduction that has brought in the fear of relegation,and that means every point is critical.

Now other supporters may have a better memory than me (sometimes I cant remember what I had for breakfast ) but where we playing a more open game with the defense was supporting the attack, instead of the attack supporting the defense..

I was going to suggest that Stephen Graham but he's not from Liverpool either – he's from Kirkby….

Mark (234) I know a few Busters from Liverpool but Keaton wasn't one of them and Stephen Graham would class as a Scouser but it isn't him either. So…

Arthur Askey was the other one along with Frankie Vaughan, Derek Guyler was another one with Arthur's daughter Anita. The film was called Ramsbottom Rides Again. It was bleedin' crap, whatever Arthur was as a comedian he couldn't act and Frankie Vaughan was a very good Variety performer he couldn't act either and yet he appeared in a film with Marilyn Monroe and Laurence Olivier – what they made of him God only knows.

By the way, a very good book was a Biography of Ownie Madden the English Godfather who was born in Leeds then resided in Liverpool for a short while until he emigrated to America at a young age.

Another Liverpool-born Comedian (Jewish) who emigrated from Liverpool to New York was Henry Youngman.

I ‘d never heard of him, so I googled him, glad I did, he was known a great one line comedian who would appear anywhere, anytime.

One of his one line jokes was: A doctor gave his patient six months to live but he couldn't pay his bill so he gave him another six months.

By the way Stephen it said he was born in London, but you're an Evertonian so I'll take your word, what do they know!!

He was injured in a gunfight in a night club and a couple of bullets stayed in his body for the rest of his life.

Bob Hoskins played him in a film about his life, but Owney's wife didn't like the way he was portrayed, Bob ranted and raved in the film and his wife said that Owney wasn't like that he got things done in a quiet way. Maybe even when he was bumping his enemies off!!

Nick Cage was also good in it but I thought it was ruined by Richard Gere. I am surprised they haven't made a film just focussed on Madden and his extra ordinary life.

Yes he did have a very lively life and knew a lot of people, good and bad.

He looked after Stan Laurel, recognising his accent as being close to where he grew up. I think like a lot of people in the game he was in, he could be a good friend but also a bad enemy.

I'm half expecting to see a post from BBC film critic Mark Kermode or even Barry Norman (back from the dead – I assume he is dead; if not, sorry Barry!).

Did anyone see that Jamie Carragher spoke out in favor of Everton and the ridiculous delay in judgement from the Premier League regarding the 10-point deduction?

This is getting circus-like. Between this and the obscene implementation of VAR, coupled with the Big 6 exodus fiasco and their two-tier system for the application of sanctions, I'm getting sick of the Premier League.

I feel like it's a chore to watch now and crooked. I used to watch multiple non-Everton games on the weekend. Now, I watch Everton only because I feel like there's no point in watching other games and supporting a league that's turning into a joke.

Get the freaking decision out there, you Premier League cowards. Your lack of spine is disgusting and your decision-making abilities are non-existent.

Jerks.

We could get fucked out of spite and arrogance or they could fold like a taco. Or something in between I guess.

Who fucking knows… which is exactly why we have a handbook, innit?

Joel Barwise, an Everton fan who shouted racist abuse about Mohamed Salah and mocked the Heysel stadium disaster at last October's Merseyside derby, has been banned from attending matches for 3 years and fined £500.

As for Heysel, we shouldn't mock it as 39 people lost their lives attending a football match.

But we shouldn't shy away from discussing it as I do frequently with friends and family and not airbrush it from history. A terrible tragedy that should not be forgotten.

And 99.99% of US-born Americans have never heard of it.

Barely more have heard of Hillsborough.

My takeaway was surprise at an Everton fan being a bigot. Always startles me.

I doubt many will be surprised to hear that 99.9% of Americans have never heard of the Heysel tragedy, and not many more have heard about Hillsborough. I find many Americans pretty ignorant to most things happening outside their own country.

I remember an interview George W Bush did with one of the American TV companies and he was asked to name the President or Prime Minister of about 8 countries and he never got any right. So if your President couldn't name leaders he had sat down with, it's hardly surprising that Heysel and Hillsborough don't register very highly with Americans.

Also, why you are surprised at an Everton fan being a bigot? You may not be old enough to remember how our fans used to sing "Everton are White".

The person in question, IMHO, wouldn't mock the people who died, but his misjudged attack would be aimed at the Liverpool supporters who caused it. It would be them he'd mock. A subtle difference but a difference all the same.

I've probably not explained that well but I feel "mocking the tragedy" is probably inaccurate. And before people dive in I believe any mention of it in any shape or form to "score points" against the rs is totally wrong.

I know they tried a few years back when Juventus came to Anfield in a European match. The Juventus supporters deliberately turned their backs on the Kop.

History and hindsight, but I'll never get my head around how we and others got punished for something we didn't do. And I know that is not the root cause of where we are now, but it denied one of the best teams in Europe at the time their moment to compete on the highest stage. Yet it is rarely mentioned… almost ignored.

You're correct, Brian, it is not point-scoring. It's talking about a tragedy that shamed English football.

How far is St Helens from Liverpool, 15 miles or so? I shudder to think. I've never once been there. I have been through it at least twice on the train and saw nothing that would make me want to get off the train.

Same thing with Wigan, except that I have gone there to watch us. and to change trains. Actually, I quite like some Northern Soul classics since the place closed down.

I've been to Skelmersdale once, four years ago. I've never been to Parbold or Newton-le-Willows.

I grew up in Bootle and Crosby and would not be able to get around from place to place in South Liverpool. I know Aigburth and Woolton Village but I would not know how to get from Crosby to Knotty Ash or Speke or Childwall where that pathetic small-minded racist hails from. (I wouldn't know how to get to Halewood from Crosby.)

Is there a North-South divide in our city, or is it just me?

After all of the support we've given them over Hillsborough, that is just crass and disrespectful.

Offended by everything, ashamed of nothing!

Can't the fucking Anfield authorities take the shitty filthy rag off the knobhead's hands? It shouldn't be too hard to locate the twisted moron. Unless, of course they ........

"For England, Wales, and Northern Ireland as a whole, St Helens is among the top 10 most dangerous major towns" with a crime rate significantly higher than Liverpool: 145 crimes per 1000 people.

Chicago's crime rate is 37 per 1000 people.

Unfortunately, today's shootings are less than a mile from my home. Last night, I witnessed an armed car-jacking at a gas station about half-a-mile in the other direction.

Sadly, I cannot say I am surprised to see what has gone on today.

It was a nice place to live until then.

You seem almost as fixated on guns as the fecking NRA. Listen, there are other ways to measure life. Sadly, and I'm sad to hear Kieran's story, gun deaths are by and large geographically and socially restricted (we have a library of research on this).

I, for example, have never seen a gun or heard a gunshot in Chicago. On the other hand, I would not want to live in a culture-less colourless place like St Helens with its sky-high crime rates where the threat of being beaten up, robbed, drugs, violent crime touches 300 out of 2000 people each year. (And that, by the way, is recorded crime: the real figure will. be much higher.)

Millions and millions of people in California live on a highly dangeorus fault in the full knowledge that the "big one" could happen in the next hour, day, or month.

Facts, PH, facts.

Horsham or St. Helens hmmmmm ?

Growing up in the '70s and '80s, it was a great place to live. Outsiders have ruined it.

It all sounds uncomfortably a little Luton to me, but perhaps you could reassure me?

Anyway, it's good that you are happy there. That's important. What did you mean by "outsiders"?

Come on, Ferry, I thought you would have known that.

But they are family and friends from home, not the ones I have to tolerate down here in West London.

As we got onto geography, I've always been an advocate in the concept of Greater Liverpool. The city, Knowsley and South Sefton all officially part of the city. And yes, Kirkby.

I've always thought of us as one city. And we are. But I do acknowledge the differences in culture as well as accent shifts between the north of the city and the south.

I've always broken the city / region into areas. To the north, Everton, Anfield, Kirkdale and Bootle. To the far north, Crosby, Litherland, and Maghull. To the east, Kirkby, Croxteth, Huyton. And then my end. Aigburth, Childwall, Mossley Hill, Belle Vale and Netherly and Halewood. Not forgetting were my family roots are. Speke and Garston.

I've probably missed few out. But a city family and an Everton family.

Mark, I can't confess to know too much about St Helens, but I did think it might be urban mythology, but didn't Simon and Garfunkel take inspiration for the song Homeward Bound from standing on a platform at Widnes station?

I was born in Liverpool. Sefton General Hospital.

My son was born in the West Midlands but lived his formative years in Liverpool and his first school was Much Woolton.

He is as passionate an Evertonian as me. As are those who grace these pages wherever they come from.

I don't like the term 'outsider'. No such thing. I don't buy it. However you became an Evertonian it doesn't matter.

Maghull and Crosby in the same bracket? Nooooooo.

Netherly, Danny? I seriously have no idea where Netherly is.

Netherly is just up from Halewood and close to Belle Vale.

I was there for 4 July several years ago.

Danny, that doesn't help mate! What or where is Belle Vale!

Now Halewood, car and paint plants right (my old fella used to work at was it Vospers, Vaspers, making paint). It's one of the first places you go through when you get to Liverpool on the train?

Newton-le-Willows was a nice place, until they started moving people from St Helens here. :-)

I know it inevitably will, but I hope that this doesn't dampen the Chief's achievements in the long run. Terrible for the city and the team and fans on what should have been a glorious day and a day to remember forever for the right reasons.

It's about 8 miles from me, Paul, Newton is in the middle of a triangle between St Helens, Wigan and Warrington.

I own 3 businesses and have been robbed 6 times in the last year and both my neighbours have been carjacked in the past 6 months. If you live in the City of Chicago you're leading a charmed life.

Yes, it's very sad. As I was heading to work, there were jubilant excited crowds; coming home, a somber scene, police tape, cops everywhere.

I'm sorry to hear that and hope that you didn't lose too much mate. I'm in Hyde Park and honestly have never heard a gunshot here although I have in England. I know your neighbourhood well. Remember eating great Polish sausage there.

Wow, Brian. Billinge really is in the middle of the Saints - Wigan divide. I didn't know that. The hill sounds worth a look. I'll try to do that when next at home. In fact, I should just get in the car and spend a day driving to all those places that I have never been!

Jamie, likewise sorry to hear you've been through such a rough patch in the old neighborhood... as you know my first babyhood home is just a long walk from you. Hope the Chicago Evertonians are rallying around you.

I grew up in Highland Park, where 19 months ago a guy went up on the roof of a building where I once worked and opened fire with a rifle on people watching the Fourth of July parade. He killed 7 and wounded more than 30, including relatives of people I went to school with. The shooter's father, the leading Trump-worshipping politico in town, just got out of jail for illegally helping his son acquire the rifle.

As I type, India lose their first wicket and their dangerman, Mark Wood. Great ball on a flat wicket. 22-1 - 24-2, boss, Mark Wood again.

Following up on the south Liverpool geography. Close to Childwall and Gateacre.

Sorry to hear about the events in Kansas City after the celebration of a fantastic sporting achievement.

I was born and bred in Sutton Oak, St Helens, near Junction Lane which was a thriving community and tight-knit. Everyone knew each other and met in the Prince of Wales pub or 10 o'clock mass at St Anne's.

The Sutton I visit these days is a wasteland. The many shops of Junction Lane, that once included a corner store, two very good butchers, toy shops and a model (Airfix) shop as well as the best sweet shop in the world, Maleedys, are boarded up or are nail bars!

Seriously, St Helens was probably one of the worst hit by Thatcher, with the closure of several collieries and to be fair, the scousers who moved to St Helens probably wished they hadn't. The days of May Fairs, leaving back doors open for visitors and football in the “entries” (back alleys) were gone and the place changed from a tight-knit community to a wasteland.

I'm visiting this weekend before heading to the “safety” of the Adelphi for Monday's game, but I must say I don't like staying too long. That said, I never forget where I come from and the town I knew, the people who I knew when I lived there, some still there, and, as Paul says, the best Rugby League team in the world, still make me proud. Much like the scousers from Scotty Road and the lost tribes of Everton love their history and place of upbringing.

But I wouldn't live there now for a king's ransom — Horsham or St Helens?? No question — I'll take Norvern git over Wooly back any time! UTFT

My background is L24 and L19. I lived in Woolton for a while.

Leon Osman, born in Wigan; Alan Ball, born in Bolton; Howard Kendall, born in Country Durham; Duncan Ferguson, from Stirling in Scotland. Alex Young, Neville Southall and Kevin Sheedy… Branthwaite from Carlisle… Calvert-Lewin from Sheffield… Richarlison, Tim Howard, Landon Donovan. The list could go on.

We all love a local player to come good but, wherever they come from, it doesn't make them lesser Evertonians once they take the Royal Blue holy water.

Likewise the supporters. From Mark Murphy to my brother's friend Des (Milton Keynes) and my good friend from Warwick who I converted, which he passed on to his kids. Incidentally, his son played at Exeter yesterday. I always apologise to him as he took the Blues up on my advice in 1991!

It doesn't matter where you are born or come from. Those of you who follow from around the globe. You are as big if not a better Evertonian than me.

I loved Leon Osman. Had he done what some younger players are doing now and played on the continent, he would have been a star.

Tony Hibbert. I rated him highly. He took a lot of stick at times, but you couldn't question his desire and commitment.

When Hibbert scores – you know the rest.

A bit of a ramble, but it's still a long way to Monday!

I go into town to Liverpool City centre on the bus and pass many of the places which were very familiar to me, and shake my head at the state of the places now and the people who live there, it's a completely different world to the way it once was.

Manners, have to a great degree, have left the scene, so has the way people dress and behave has changed so much that it is a delight when people use them and act normally, and to be honest plenty do, but just observing the way the world is today is very depressing and sadly it isn't going to get much better.

I really hope I'm wrong but this green and pleasant land that England once was isn't very nice at all.

The RS are now delighting in someone being done for mocking Heysel, or mocking their fans whatever, and to be fair, it's wrong, I've never been into that. However, they evidently don't see the irony in a, flying the Steaua flag and b, still calling us bitter after all these years.

They even try to rewrite history when I pull them up on it saying we're bitter about the trophies they've won. I've been called bitter since 1985!! I ask them how they can reconcile with themselves for using Heysel as a tool to take the piss, to which they reply it's only a bit of banter.

It's also amazing when you mention the Steaua flag they plead ignorance as if they have no idea what you're talking about. Arseholes. Proper gets my goat that does.

As Liverpool has always been, it is welcoming to those who visit and adopt it. My brother-in-law from Somerset who has lived there since the 90s having married my sister. He is in hospital but was just glad to be taken "home" last week after being in a London hospital.

On the homeland, it's come a long way and is very well respected by those not from the city who visit.

Liverpool One, Queens Square and the Rope Walks. St George's Hall never fails to impress. The Albert Dock and now our new stadium that will generate more much needed development for the north docks as well as being an iconic figure on the river.

Sefton Park. Croxteth Hall Park, Calderstones, Woolton Camp Hill and Speke Hall.

It is unique from the rest of England in terms of it's people and culture.

As you know, for night matches, I stop over. The only area that disappoints me is Renshaw Street. Seeing the old Odeon vacant and the origInal Lewis'. An area that needs some care and attention.

I'm a proud Liverpolitan and Evertonian, but don't ever call me a Liverpudlian is what I advise people I speak too!!!

Take care Dave, hope to catch you soon.

Renshaw Street isn't the only tired looking street though Danny, London Road has completely changed, not only has it changed you could be in Turkey when you visit so the culture has changed and there isn't one local pub there when there used to be eight, more if you include Pembroke Place which is an extension of London Road.

Great Homer Street is not the same, neither is Scotland Road., Islington is now a street where traffic flows, not many people walk on it because there is nothing there, only to streets which cut off from it for people going home.

Vauxhall Road is the same with many pubs and shops gone along with the communities that lived there as well as the Eldonian club and Community centre.

I think that it is different to visiting Liverpool rather than living here and, although I like my city, it was always the people I grew up with and others I worked with and socialised with that made me love it – not what was in the city.

By the way, Danny, that cinema that is vacant was called The Forum; The Odeon was in London Road, two of the many cinemas I frequented and bunked in growing up!

Yes, I hope to see you soon, Danny, it will be a pleasure.

It's a "Big Ten" city (Big 18 now? What a joke...). The Big Ten is a collegiate conference primarily consisting of Midwest locals - Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, etc. The Midwest is known for their amicable disposition and good people. Chicago is no exception.

There is, indeed, a bit of an air of arrogance to Chicago. It's
the city in the Midwest, with college graduates finding employment in the big town in droves and making it their home. They realize it's the motor of the Midwest and do think the city superior to all others in the area. But it's not your "normal arrogance" that's a wicked character trait. It's more of a fun, I live in the town and it's awesome, kind of vibe.

Anyone thinking Chicago is a shitty town needs to actually visit and spend time there. It's simply fantastic. Yes, there's arrogant rich douchebags. And, yes, there's pockets of abject poverty with terribly high crime rates (South Chicago and the projects). But it has something like 15 million people in the metro area – you'll get that in any major city frankly.

Go to a Cubs game and talk to as many people as you can. You'll find them exceedingly agreeable, affable, and lovely.

I lived in Wisconsin for a few years and we have a sport rivalry with Chicago that is real. I hate their teams mostly. But the city? It's wonderful.

The only shit thing about Chicago is the Bears. It's as if the effort to get a quarterback drifts north, and the Packers get the gem while the Bears polish a turd. 😂

There's your 'Merican education on the Windy City. So says one out of 330 million people. But I'd bet 329 million would agree with me.

I forgot to mention Otterspool Promenade, where I used to walk my son. I also played football there. Jericho Lane where I now believe South Liverpool play?

Another favourite of mine, although not spectacular, was Allerton Road.

The old Parade in Speke was grim, but Speke has come a long way. Many family functions end up in the old Metal Box Social Club. Somethings don't go away despite the new Airport, the hotels and Liverpool South Parkway (Garston).

I can't comment too much on Scotland Road as, in my lifetime it was mainly a dual carriage way on the way to Goodison.

My son lived just off London Road when he was at John Moores. My mother used to love TG Hughes and I often got dragged around it to my frustration.

I preferred my days out with my Grandad in the library and museums on William Brown Street.

I believe that we have the most listed buildings in the UK outside of London. Also, a lot of film companies use the Georgian terraced area of Toxteth to replicate London.

Liverpool suffered the same type of ignorance for many years but, thanks to European money allowing for change, I think most people's conceptions that were mostly born out of ignorance, have definitely changed.

Those gun laws are very dangerous because it's very easy for anyone to be destructive, and destroy human life, imo, and it seems to happen way too much to ‘innocent people' in the great USA.

Was he any relation to TJ Hughes that had a department store on London Road Danny?? :-))

I always liked going to Blacklers with me mam, it was an immense adventure ground as a kid and I ended up in the 'lost and found' a few times. It seemed you could buy anything in that place.

Quite a few from that part of the world settled in Widnes. Lithuania must have been grim!

Those with children may remember a series of children's books about "Alfie", written by Shirley Hughes, daughter of TJ.

Her son is Ed Vulliamy who used to write in the Guardian. I'm on fire today!

I've mentioned previously, found memories of walking to Walton Breck Road with my step-Grandmother.

Being allowed to go to the programme shop near the Kop as I was an avid collector as a youngster. And then meeting her back in the butcher's across the road to throw the money into his bucket. It's how he took his payment.

Off to watch the cousins. Talking to my ill brother-in-law today I told him they owe us one against Brentford. And the Luton.

He said he'd do his best!!