Striker Crisis

"Okay, we are going to back you by starting you. If it doesn't work out, we will replace you with Beto or Barry."

I would fail to see how they could do any worse.

No doubt we can look forward to a new improved Chermiti next season. God help us. He'll be like a new signing.

Henry is a fan of his??

It’s to early to right Barry off but at 22 and not far of turning 23, he isn’t that young in football terms. I struggle to see things in him that makes me feel he is good enough to improve us going forward. He may do a job or may be at the level to have done a job he last 3-4 years but we are now striving to look upwards

As a short to medium term option, I wouldn’t mind a punt on Josh Sargent at Norwich. He seems to has good strength, good touch, decent in the air and a good finisher with either foot. Maybe lacks blistering pace to be a threat in behind but he offers something different to Beto, like chalk and cheese.

Admittedly I know little of his possible value, contract length or hold any extensive knowledge on him to be confident about his impact but with rideout being mentioned and the dearth of options out there and inflated prices, if he was a reasonable price, he could of been worth a punt

I've posted before saying what bit we have seen of Chermiti I thought that he will make a good player, Moyes doesn't seem that keen though.

I reckon you'll see roughly the same from Barry. He reminds me a bit of Teddy Sheringham in his link up play and I like the look of him. He has bags of ability and I think you'll see it as the season progresses.

Will the above totals matter? Well I reckon Ndiaye will get us 10, Grealish possibly 8 or so as well and other midfielders will chip in.

Do we need a 20 goal a season striker? It would be nice, but the reality is we spent around £30m on Barry for probably less than 10 goals.

If you think we're now going to suddenly spend upwards of £60m on a 20 goals a season striker you're going to be sorely disappointed.

A) We can't afford one.

B) They won't come to Everton.

C) There aren't that many of them around.

Also, Chermiti will go out on loan so it's Beto and Barry all season I reckon. We need to temper our expectations here as well - the squad is undergoing a full rebuild and the beginnings of that are looking decent.

Our main aim needs to be a mid table finish, then we build from there. Not being involved in a relegation fight is the low bar we should be aiming for and that's where my expectations lie - anything beyond that is a bonus.

The last time we had a striker who could do it Lukaku was criticised by a significant portion on here for being lazy and not linking play enough. So we need a 15+ goal striker who also defends like a beast and racks up 10 assists per season? Easy!!

There are also lots of fans who think we absolutely need 3 or even 4 front line strikers even though most other teams have no more than 2.

I think people think if we have more strikers we’ll get more goals? I suspect having a dynamic attacker right back to overlap Ndiaye/Dibling and put in more crosses or create space would be more likely to see us with more goals.

Beto and Barry are fine. The former managed 8 goals last season with only 15 starts and the latter is a potential future star who needs time to develop. Between them they should manage 15-20 goals hopefully which is plenty so long as Ndiaye, Grealish, Dibling, KDH etc chip in too.

Maybe we get a cheap freebie or loan to cover Chermitti but I’m not convinced we need it. Ndiaye has played up too before and Dibling could play there in a pinch. Could also give Braiden Graham a shot, he’s a very natural finisher.

Well….. yeah….. he’s here 4 weeks

22 in a new country with new team mates with a new side being put together

Fucking hell

This thread makes me wanna cry already

Thanks to modern day managers, they are all extinct now.

The weird thing is that Carlo got DCL to be a goal hanger for a year and low and behold he scored a lot of goals. But then we had to revert to having him run down channels aimlessly, or have the ball blasted towards his head to create knock downs for the invisible man. He isn't a good finisher but goal hanging can yield results. Maybe we should try it again with Beto.

James #8, say what about Beto? "...won't score more than about 8 goals a season, absolute tops 10. And that's in all competitions."

He scored 10 in all comps last season, playing just over half the available minutes due to being second fiddle to DCL.

We’ve rebuilt half of the squad in many of the most important areas, there’s no way we can currently afford anything better than what we have. Barry looks promising and we know Beto can do well if given decent service. I think we’ll be ok this season and can wait until next summer to look on improving the striker situation, hopefully with European football in the bag.

Still have no idea about Chermiti, not seen much of him in his cameo appearances.

To me, Barry doesn't look the part. He may improve but it's not easy in the PL. I guess we'll find out this season because the only competition he'll have is Beto.

Their strengths should be with high balls, I am not saying thats the case but it could be worth trying more.

Thats what would have happened in the good old days, certainly more than you see now.

And the guys supporting him are now Grealish, Dewesbury Hall, Alcaraz, Dibbling and Ndiaye vs Harrison, Doucoure, Lindstrom and Ndiaye.

I am seeing improvement, so panicking when both strikers have either scored or contributed into goals is just way to premature.

I am with you on this Rob. I cannot understand this idea that we have a striker crisis.

Right - Beto - he literally had half a season last year, when Moyes came in, and then had a decent strike rate. Barry, how the hell anyone can make a judgement on him as a goalscorer after less than 1 top flight game is baffling to me.

Lets give them time with a supply line that is now better than it has been for a long long time then we can judge.

What is it with instantaneous results with everyone. Also, people calling for Vardy - which I am not 100% against. Would he do a better job now upfront than either Alcaraz or Ndiaye. My belief is no, so for me - no striker crisis.

We are in abetter shape than for a long long time - lets see what enfolds before getting all negative.

I agree, Christy. DCL is better than both our current forwards but I do see potential in Barry.

Beto and Barry need to score 14 goals, and they beat the tally last year set by DCL and Beto.

There hold up play could be better, but I firmly believe that tally will be broken.

But most supporters will develop first opinions/impressions after watching new players and form initial opinions if they feel the player appears to be an improvement of what we had before or good enough to push us on to the next level (to be honest, most people do about most things in life it’s a natural thing to do. First couple weeks at a new job, first time meeting work colleagues or whatever) and as long as they remain open to being proved right or wrong and fair in regards to giving critique and some acknowledgment of a period of adjustment for the player before deciding a final opinion if a player isn’t good enough, I see no wrong in anything posted above.

I didn’t need 6 months and 10 games to feel the straq wasn’t good enough, nor mikel madar, niasse, lindstrom, Ellis Simms, Rondon, Tosun, Sandro or many others. I would have been happy for any and all of them to have proved me wrong, like others have done after my initial opinion wasn’t one of confidence during their first few months.

If that makes anyone cry, the world is soft these days anyway…

- comedy pause -

Taps nose because there's Gregg's sausage roll crumbs on it, not because I've heard anything.

Link

Appearances 38
Goals 29
Assists 18
Penalties 9
Touches in box 394
Shots total 130
Shots on target 61

So an elite striker, exclude the pens
1 in 2 goals to games
1 in 2 assists to games
Converts 1 in 3 Shots on target
10 touches in the box per game
Scores one in 6.5 Shots
3.4 Shots per game

These contributions are clinical, but not massive in total. 10 touches in the box doesnt sound a lot, nor is 3.4 Shots per game when youve walked the league.

My criticism of dcls hold up plsy, although it did deteriorate, as did his committment to use his pace to truly hurt the opposition. But his ability to actually cut out a chance and beat the keeper is where it hurt.

So, can Beto or Barry get 10 touches per game in the box? Can they take 3 to 4 Shots a match, scoring 1 in 7 taken? They both have the pace, size, and creativity behind them to score a enough to keep us in a healthy enough position.

Patience is needed.

Barry's link play is better, which is why you're likely to see more of Barry early in games, and Beto later on if & when defences push up. Teams who play a high line = Beto, everyone else = Barry.

I suspect with Ndiaye, KDH, Garner, Dibling and Grealish in the team we'll create more so Barry will play more because he can play the ball with the other ball players in our team.

Beto's link play is terrible. He can only run in behind. They're both big tall blokes but their strengths are quite different.

Based on what Pat?

Henry was praising him on Monday and I think I will take his opinion over ‘supporters’ on here

Absolutely hilarious

Lineker and Cottee were the last two revered strikers we signed and whilst they were with us we won nowt.

In the Premier League we've signed (fading) so-called goal machines who only went on to display their declining talent.

Rooney is the only goal-scorer of note we've developed from scratch (with due acknowledgement to Joey!...... when I were a lad), so I hope the three under discussion, with the better calibre of player now around them, can go on to a level where clubs such as Forest, Villa and Newcastle want to buy them to bolster their own European campaigns, thereby giving us more cash to spend on strikers already used to regularly playing in Europe.

It may take years after the miasma more than thirty inflicted on us but let's try to not immediately take our anguish out on those aspirants undeserving of it, namely, the present squad.

Lukaku was absolutely brilliant for us and if he’d stayed then no chance we’d have been anywhere near relegation positions. Bizarre that you’ve omitted him.

Similarly the Yak was brilliant for us prior to his big injury and post injury did a super job at Blackburn

Saha was excellent albeit past his best as was Eto

Think you need some history lessons lad!!!

Hence we need an attacking LB, which Myko isn't, as well as the more obvious need at RB where we have no specialist RB at all. To me, these are now the most challenging positions on the pitch, you have to get up and down the line, rotating which FB pushes.

True, none of our strikers are exceptional, maybe not even good, but the market for near guaranteed regular goal scorers is not one we can operate in right now. We'll have to make the best of what we have.

Everton need more goals but some of them need to come from our wingers. Ndiaye did well last season but could get even more and Grealish and Dibling will need to contribute too.

We don't have a striker crisis. There's goals in this team already. Don't worry about it.

It’s a big world, there is a thing called the internet with a plethora of content on to watch at your leisure, there are sites with in depth background write ups and records that detail his career so far.

Barry wasn’t born 4 weeks ago ffs. Maybe to some if it isn’t in an Everton shirt, it doesn’t exist

The Sargent mention was a throwaway suggestion as a 3rd option in the squad with Chermiti leaving last minute, as I doubt we have funds to make an improvement now, in the spirit of the main post about Rideout in the 90’s. Someone who appears to offer differing attributes to what we currently have

Sensitive souls

I wouldn’t apologise over suggesting Josh Sargent.

I have also pointed to him as a potential signing for a long time. He is certainly at this moment in time better than anything we have got and would deliver the kind of forward play that Moyes likes. He’s relentlessly hard working with good physical attributes and can get hold of the ball and keep it.

He’s not top class or a marquee signing kind of player. But he would be a reliable performer.

The team however is desperate for pace. We have no pace at all in the entire team, in any position.

Maybe some people’s small doubts about Barry prove to have no relevance, as he turns out to be a success for years to come.

I haven’t seen many posts, if any at all, that have completely written him off or declared him well and truly shite, just some have expressed to having some doubts about what he may offer, even when settled.

We do lack blistering pace, even from our wide players who all seem to prefer the ball to feet and to stand up defenders before going past them. Unless receiving it on the half turn and they can instantly roll their man. It is still a area that is much improved compared to last season

It is definitely a chink in our armour, the lack of a threat in behind the fullbacks or down the inside of them. Something that Beto seems to at least have as a strength when we break quickly.

If you Google 'Thierno Barry strengths', one of the main things he's known for is his pace, power, strength, the list goes on, so quite where you both get this notion from is somewhat perplexing.

Beto is also quick, and over a short distance so is Ndiaye. KDH is no slouch either.

I think this is fan perception, and not actual reality.

There's way more to come from Barry - people need to be a bit more forgiving before jumping on the 'striker crisis' bandwagon. There really isn't one.

As Thierry Henry said, "he's a player that people doubt in the beginning, but end up liking".

Give it time.

We haven’t provided strikers with any kind of service since Carlo Ancelotti was in charge. This season we look like we might be able to. Let’s hope.

Another key point about strikers in general is just the way the game has changed; most chances seem to fall to the wingers and midfielders with the out and out strikers well marshalled playing up against 2 centre backs (or sometimes 3). Their role is more tactical which is why coaches see things in them that we sometimes don’t. In the days of Lineker and Rideout they generally played as a 2 up against 2 centre backs and weren’t outnumbered. Kieran mentioned Bergkamp and Henry, two exceptional footballers, but Bergkamp wasn’t a striker. He played behind another player, usually Henry (who also didn’t like to play up against 2 centre backs and often pulled wide to the left). Bergkamp joined Arsenal in part because he’d had such a torrid time trying to play as a ‘9’ at Inter Milan in a narrow formation and couldn’t do it.

If you provide service, even for average strikers, they score goals. However, things have flipped a little, and ‘number 9’s are now expected to make runs and occupy defenders in a way that creates space and chances for the deeper players.

Can we afford a ready made one? No.

Does it make sense to buy another really mediocre one? No.

Does it make sense to develop Barry and hope he turns into a 20 goal striker? Yes.

Will that take time? Yes.

Theyre judged exclusively on putting the ball in the net.

Beto and Barry are getting criticism for their weak hold up play, which for Barry is a bit of a joke, as he played his part in 2 goals vs Brighton.

Beto & Barry need to be judged after 20 games minimum, and for Barry probably the season. That assessment will be goals.

Quite frankly, I couldn't give a monkeys if his hold up play is like a curb. If he puts in 15 goal plus each we will all be doing cartwheels. Lukuku was loved by Everton, but a hold up centre forward was never his strength. It was running through face to goal.

A bashing after 3 games (of which the leeds side was cobbled together), is frankly piss poor from a fan base that should know better.

On the striker front, my main criticism is from a squad point of view that Barry, beto and Chermiti are very similar in style. Which probably rules them out in playing as a pair, as they make the same movements. A link forward is needed as a different option, but there isn't many about these days.

Josh Sargent is not good enough for the Premier league. Sorry, he just isn't.

Rather than relying on Google, I have used his performances so far in an Everton shirt to inform my opinion. Particularly against Brighton in the flesh last week.

If he is quicker than my assessment of him then he certainly doesn’t play in any kind of way that seeks to capitalise on that ‘strength’. All I saw was a player looking to come towards the play rather than make runs away from it.

When I say we need pace, we need pace in a way that stretches the play and the pitch. We need players running towards the goal not constantly coming to feet.

But this is how Moyes has always played. His teams stay as a tight square unit and move together up the pitch when trying to develop an attack. That’s why his teams tend to have a goal threat, because there tends to always be numbers going forward on the occasions that an attack is formed.

It it’s also why he’ll never get too results against top teams (mainly away from home) because these kind of teams can usually defend the way a Moyes team attacks.

That is the elephant in this room. If you interpolate those numbers Beto is capable of 16 goals in 30 starts.

Plus he missed quite a few one on ones - which with my glass half full means he is a threat in the oppositions half.

I think a lot of us just don’t like him. I would start him every game.

I think he is a threat Laurie. And he does have goals in him. But he gives the team absolutely nothing else. And that will always be a problem for Moyes and how he wishes to play.

Moyes doesn’t like goalscorers. He likes defensive forwards who hold the ball up well

I'm not relying on Google, I watch the same games you do and I just don't see what you're seeing.

Barry looks sharp, quick on the turn, quick off the mark, with a great touch and excellent link play. The Google point is merely to illustrate what he's known for before he joined Everton. Namely, the things you (and others) claim he's not based on his very short time playing for us.

It's a bit like a scout going to watch one game and forming an opinion on a player - I just think people need to let him play over a number of months to have formed an opinion on him that holds any weight - everything else is just knee-jerk.

Can Beto score 10 to 15 across a 38 game season? Yes.

Are our strikers the weak link in the team? No.

Are our strikers good enough for a sniff of Europe or a cup? Yes.

Are our strikers good enough for a shot at the Champions League places. No.

Is Barry a high quality striker? No.

Is Barry better than Beto now? Hard to say.

Could Barry become better than Beto? Probably - but it will take time and he needs games.

Could Barry become a high quality striker? Complete unknown.

How do we get ourselves a high quality striker?

Option 1. Spend £70m to £130m on a striker

Option 2. Buy in high quality potential and develop the player (and probably buy in decent volume too).

We are also 15 goals lower in our own net and for the first time since Carlo left, we are showing a positive goal difference over 38 games.

Personally, I don't care if Beto and Barry don't score all season as long as they contribute to the team scoring >50 goals and a positive Goal Difference.

My prediction based on what I have seen so far is that Thierno Barry will not score any more than 5 league goals this season.

I am entitled to my opinion despite the fact you find it unpalatable.

I hope he proves me wrong. But it is what it is. I’m an optimist but I won’t pretend that I think there is a top class player there. Judging by the comments from Moyes, he doesn’t even think so either.

And as for your sarcasm Jake (55). Bowen is an all round brilliant player whose pressing and industriousness classify him as much more than a goal scorer. He’s a wonderful player.

Option 1 - Throw money at it - we won’t have that kind of money to spend for a season or two.

Option 2 - buy potential - perhaps Barry & Chermeti are the star of that approach.

in the meantime I would do with Beto what Carlo did with DCL - play to his strengths. We have several midfielders now who can pick a pass.

I said earlier Barry is 6'5" and Beto is 6'4" you can expect them to be less nippy off the mark than a smaller striker.
Their advantage should be using their weight and height around the box, but to do that they need some balls in the air.

The £27m we paid for Barry is remarkably cheap.

Tommy #61, I think about 5 goals from Barry might end up being about right. But that’s on the basis Beto will start more and probably get about 12 goals.

5 goals from a sub striker is a massive upgrade on recent years and could make a big difference. By the end of the season Barry might have forced his way into the starting line up more regularly. Between Barry and Beto I expect about 15 to 20 goals.

A third strike would be nice, tho.

To say Barry isn’t the answer is ridiculous after 4 weeks being here.

Shall we bring Ramirez or the French 1 goal wonder? Yeah, I thought not.

No crisis.

Coyb

Kendall did it with Lineker I guess. Sharp, Heath, Gray was perfectly functional, but even Howard went for the goals.

We were in for Woltemade but he's been sold for €85M.

We were in for Delap but, sadly, he just chose a much better option for winning things and progressing his career.

We bought a cheap striker to develop instead because we don't have a lot of money.