England lose despite crucial saves from Pickford

But the best team in the tournament won.

They played very well. I think Walker hurt them this game to be honest.

But they played with an effort they should be proud of.

Pickford kept them in it but to no avail.

The usual Southgate conservative approach fucks up another great generation. Kane and Bellingham never looked fit and the hype must end once and for all.

Southgate out!!

Yeah there was a huge hole between Saka and Walker all game and Walker didn't know whether to go right or stay central.

But basically Spain were better overall.

Shame to lose without a real fight.

You can see the array of attacking talent that England have, but the back 4 apart from John Stones consistently let England down.

Southgate as stubborn as ever, stuck with his same starting eleven apart from Shaw but they couldn't get the job done and it was the subs who finally produced something.

It's time, Gareth. You tried but you're not up to the task.

But let's be honest, Spain the better side.

I agree on both counts. And really Spain has been the best team in the tournament.

Colin -

I agree England needs a coach who emphasizes attack. Without question. But Southgate managed this game very well, and his record has been excellent. He's not my favorite, and I think England can win the World Cup with the right manager. But credit to Southgate simply on results. He's been successful in regards to the bottom line metric in my opinion.

England Numero Uno.

Disappointing, but the best side won.

The only manager who is going to win England a trophy.

Pickford had a great tournament.

It should have been sorted out earlier on but it wasn't and it ultimately cost England the game.

Best team of the tournament won it.

Foden, Saka and Rice had a disappointing tournament in my opinion while Kane looks past his sharpest best that's quite clear.

The problem moving forward to future tournaments for England now is the centre-forward position.

Kane, Toney and Watkins are all 30 or over by the World Cup and not really any sign of a future stalwart.

I could watch that kid play for hours and hours and never get tired of it. He's an amazing player.

Kane and Bellingham looked unfit.

I would not be surprised if some of the top teams come calling — and that will put Everton up Shit Creek without a paddle!!!

Cole Palmer should have started in place of Foden who has been a lightweight throughout the competition. and as Kieran points out, Saka cannot be relied upon to defend.

Both over on their right in the second half. Walker drawn across to compensate. So space on their left.

Southgate failed to get Saka back as cover?

Pickford won't be leaving, mate. He clearly loves the environment at Everton and the media for whatever reason hate him, probably because he hurt Saint Virgil years ago and he's not playing for a London darling.

He won't be leaving Everton Football Club anytime soon, relax.

Spain were the better team for sure, if there's such a thing as Player of the Tournament think I'd give it to Nico Williams.

Just beaten by a better team.

Yes, he got us to two finals but he depends too much on his media favourites.

I truly believe this team should be very proud of their effort and tournament. And I truly believe with a manager who isn't so possession and defensively minded they can win the World Cup.

Time will tell.

Look on the bright side — you could be the USA. We're a friggin' train wreck right now!!

Sorry I don't think I will relax until the transfer window closes, he may enjoy the environment at Everton, But we have new owners coming in and as businessmen who knows, as in business, money talks.

In all other respects he could be the right man, but for most of us on here, that is a bridge far too far. However, when Southgate resigns by the end of the month as he surely will, be prepared for the Klopp clamour. Heaven help us all.

Well done, Jordan. England Man of the Match.

He's done a great job.

It really is that simple... England never looked liked winning tonight.

I thought that their best player was Shaw… that tells you everything!

To win a tournament you need 3-4 players who would get into a World XI (or equivalent), as England did in 1966. You can get 8-1 on Spain winning the 2026 World Cup, which looks good value.

I've enjoyed this tournament. Lots of moments of high drama.

Thought we were going to do it for 5-6 minutes after Palmer's goal, but Spain are a class act and they soon wrested back control.

Its going to seem like an eternity between now and the new season

I'm not sure how anyone thinking England had a chance would be an "arrogant know it all". In fact, I don't know how anyone with a passing interest in football uses those words.

England, same for 40 years, just don't keep the ball well enough

Not sure where you've encountered these people but the vast majority of English fans I saw said the same as people on here: Spain have been the best team but we have a chance. I honestly can't think of anyone acting like we had it in the bag.

You can't be figuring out fundamentals at the tournament.

Creaming themselves over trying to get Ramsdale (who is absolutely shite by the way) or the other dope Pope in goal, like they'd have won the fuckin Euro's or something for the nation.

The media are laughable.

It's a weird one. If we'd won I could see Southgate going out while he's as the top. If we were well beaten I could see him quitting due to abuse. A narrow defeat makes me think he will stay on. He said making a final after 66 made history, getting in one overseas made history, so he may feel he's making step by step with the last step being winning the WC. I'm thinking we are at a cross roads now with Kane like we were previously with Rooney and Beckham. I hate this stupid Steve MacLaren announcing Beckham was done, or the likes of Vardy retiring. So I'm not suggesting Kane is or should he done as an England player but he is or should be at the stage Thomas Muller has been in for about five years where he went from automatic starter and key man to squad member who may or may not play.

The he goes and plays media lover boy, Arnold in MF, trippier at LB, leaves out Branthwaite cos he plays for Everton, leaves out DCL for the same reason, takes Wharton for some reason then doesn't play him, plays Foden out of position. I could go on all night. Only our Jordan came out of that game with his honour intact.

How can you win if you stop playing any time the game is level? Surely we weren't playing for penalties? I don't really get that approach.

Southgate is a nearly man but he deserves a lot of praise for getting England to two major finals, considering they have only ever been in three, but when I heard the commentator saying Gallagher and Trippier, were getting ready to come on, it explained a lot about how Southgate, approaches the game.

I shouldn't be critical, because this is possibly the hardest football tournament to win, especially when you look at the three teams the Spanish have beaten in the knockout stages.

4 minutes left in a final, you stay compact and leave no gaps - which is exactly what we didn't do. We paid the price for not being compact at the end. Poor game management once we were in that situation.

Two euro finals
One world cup semi
One world cup quarter

Name an England manager who has done better in the past 58 years

Spain work exceptionally hard in possession - and are brave and inventive in their passing. We are not.

Spain also play with width and pace. We do not.

Southgate has raised the bar for England and managed to remove the toxic egos. He leaves now having done a really good job. But the bar needs raising further still.

It's funny you mention toxic egos. I thought the same thing as you but apparently others see it differently. There was a piece on BBC asking fans of other neutral countries who they wanted to win, Most said Spain cause they play better football others said our players are arrogant and obnoxious on social media so they don't like them. Apparently Palmer separately wound Spain up at the under 21 final last year by taunting their bench. Then today Markus Babble is claiming Bellingham has a massive ego problem. Don't shoot the messenger. I haven't perceived this team to be obnoxious or arrogant certainly not like the likes of John Terry. But rightly or wrongly a lot of people (maybe jealous?) perceive them that way.

I'm still seething about Kilbane and Caldwell blaming Pickford. Run into Caldwell sometimes at TFC (Toronto) matches. I'm likely to end up in hospital next time because I'm gonna unload on the stupid prick, and he's a big boy.

By weakest do you mean lack of good teams? If so I agree but I think it's fatigue from over playing. Madrid just agreed to pay Mbappe 300 million over several years but did he look like a shadow of himself here? Bernardo Silva, Fernandes, Hernandez, Griezman etc none of these guys had more than flashes of brilliance. In contrast the RS Dutchman was great but he spent half the season on the bench as did Toni Kroos who was great. I think the over full calendar sucked the life out of players including Kane, Foden and Bellingham, Walker. Stones was good but barely played last season. Only really Saka of those who played a lot was closed to his best. Obviously Pickford and Guehi too but neither of them played European club football all season or had to contend with lengthy cup runs. The number of games played is killing the quality of these tournaments. On paper this should have been much more entertaining than it was although the fatigue factor helped bring some excitement with less knackered Georgia etc bringing some joy.

From us in the second half we achieved only two attempts on goal.

WTF?

I watched the '66 WC final re-run earlier in the day and the ball was continually passed forward by both teams for the entire match, and some say "football's moved on!"

Yeah right!

Talking of old times, I watched highlights of WC 90 and realized I'd totally forgotten that before he skied a penalty, Waddle had hit the woodwork twice and been denied a clear penalty. Talk about unlucky I remember he missed a cup final pen for Sheff Wed too. Keep that man away from England and Everton he's like a ladder, black cat, and cracked mirror rolled into one.

If anything I'd argue that it's the opposition of England that has generally made comments about England, while the English players have gone almost overboard in trying to show respect to opponents.

I think a lot of it comes from just wanting to argue against the biggest league in the world.

I haven't looked but I'm inclined to believe that. Any time I see Saka and co talk they seem level headed and respectful. I can't imagine they or rather their PR people go online and portray them as ass holes.

Although he was in the game a little more tonight, I still think Bellingham under performed, I was waiting for him to take the game by the scruff of the neck, demanding the ball but never saw that in any of the other games.

Kane had an absolute stinker of a tournament, tonight was the first time Southgate took him off earlier.

Then you have an injured passenger who only made the semi finals, Shaw.

Grealish and Branthwaite must be thinking how did we not make that squad, add Gordon to zero minutes, and Toney and Watkins cameo appearances.

We got lucky in nearly every single game of the Tournament, and to be honest a very easy run to the semi finals, avoiding all the big teams, with possibly only Holland and Spain the two hardest games we came against.

How many times did a ball fall to one of our players in attack that either appeared to wrong foot the player or they had to try and put the ball on their other foot, by which time the chance to take a shot on was gone.

We were unlucky near the end when those three chances came, and their player cleared it off the line, but at the other end I just do not have the answer why Walker didn't slide in to put the ball out for a throw in for them, instead of letting him cross it first time.

All being well Southgate will be on his way, but at the same time as proved over the years, the same players will be selected from which team they play for, instead of form players from other teams.

Until we start selecting players from their club form, instead of the club badge they play for, we will always end up falling short.

I disagree on the easy run. Switzerland came within a whisker of beating Germany and easily beat Italy. They may not be a big name but they played well. Slovakia beat the mythical Belgian golden generation so again they had something about them.

You get to the point of compromising or simply not selecting.

Saka's position was a huge compromise to get his talent into the side. Rice isn't really a holding midfielder but gets that role for England. None of the defence play that formation typically.

It all ended up a bit dysfunctional, hence the reliance on "big moments".

Kane is the best example. Even taking out of the equation that he seemed unfit to play, he's not the striker to lead that team. You either build the team around him (ie give him someone who will make runs beyond him so he can drop into space) or you just don't bother with him. It doesn't mean he's a bad player, just that he's not the right fit. Instead we had a striker who likes to drop into space and two number 10s hoping to operate in that same space.

And that's where the club form argument fails. You can't just select on form. That's going to lead to more compromises than ever.

It's got to be a balanced approach. Generally I think that's where Southgate has done well - he's had that "club environment" thing going. I just think he failed to address the Kane situation and it was a huge one. Kane's "big moments" weren't enough to make up for his non-contribution.

With one of the best squads in the tournament we, somehow, staggered into the Final despite his mismanagement all over the park.

In the initial games Trippier and Arnold (for some reason a media darling) were completely out of their depth and all over the pitch players were played out of the club positions which had got them selected in the first place.

Harry Feign was way off the pace albeit he was feeding off scraps and Rice never really got into any game. Probably the most disappointing of the hyped players was Bellingham who was played far too deep. Both the full back positions were problematic and this was never resolved.

Substitutions were usually not to change the pattern of play etc but as a last desperate throw of the dice to rescue a game. Tonight it didn't work.

All of these issues were never adequately addressed by Southgate. England reached the Final despite the manager not because of him.

Apart from Pickford and Stones, overall England successes were difficult to choose, basically because most of them were poor.

I'm just glad we didn't lose through a Pickford error because the pundits and media would have crucified him.

Watching Kane lumber around made me think he is either knackered or unfit. Watkins is no world beater but when he and Palmer came on, all of a sudden there are people making runs. Until then you had the Everton scene of people waving their arms because they had no runners. Dyche, like Southgate, makes few or very late subs but at least he has the excuse of a rubbish bench.

If Southgate goes into EPL management, I expect him to fail. He's been lucky with the quality of players he's had and lucky with the draw. Two classic examples of stupidity, first not taking a single fit left back, second in the knockout stage, bringing on Toney 4 minutes into injury time, with us 1-0 down. It's not enough to say, oh he contributed to the winning goal after Bellingham's equaliser. He got lucky with that. It was a brain fart of a decision, it's the side who are winning who bring on subs with 2 minutes left of injury time. And you could see what Toney thought of it

Englands best players throughout the tournament for me were -

Pickford, Walker Stones Guehi Palmer - who were all 8/10s every game. Other players had at least one stinker on the way to the final. The player I felt most sorry for was Foden. A great player sadly misused in several matches.

I expect to see Walker and Stones in the team of the Tournament XI.

Going forward, Southgate should leave. He's done a very good job but we need someone with a more attacking attitude to get the best out of the wonderful players England has at the moment, if we are to win a tournament.
Subs such as Watkins deserved better. Why. he didn't start tonight only Southgate knows.

To me the key was Kane. If you play Kane then you're wasting Foden and Bellingham. He plays in their space and gives them nothing in the way of movement towards goal. Bellingham can be squeezed in as a midfielder and still be worthwhile but Foden might as well have stayed home for the birth of his first child.

If you're going to play Kane you might as well leave these creative number 10 types at home and select a second striker or Sterling. Sterling was the one who made England dangerous with Kane, just as Son did for Spurs.

It would be a brave man to bench England's greatest ever goalscorer when he's seemingly still in his prime, and that's where I think Southgate fell short. I think being a brave leader has been the mark of his overall tenure (well, the early part mainly) but he fell short on this occasion.

Sloppy G at 20/1 FFS.
Potter and Howe who've won nothing.
Pochetino who couldn't even win the league at PSG.
Mourinho FFS.
Klopp, who wouldn't take it, and… Carsley.

The latter did win the Euro U21s. Him apart, I'd roll the dice on Unai Emery based on his record on cups.

Hoping Colombia can beat the horrible Argies to salvage something out of today. Though I expect the officials to hand it to Messi and co.

Carsley follows the Southgate model. Absolute known quantity for them.

As for Dycheball: weaknesses in central defence and central attack where exposed, similar to Everton at times. Spain walked through midfield and central defence for the second goal and Kane was like Calvert-Lewin positionwise, not following Ancelotti's advice.

I can breathe for the coming years. Southgate will have his usual delayed decision in the hope that he will get to the World Cup. The FA will be happy with a Final appearance and steady as she goes, and Man Utd fans will be able to breathe again.

Going 4-4-1-1 in a final was negative and it was just a matter of time before Spain sorted us out.

I'm all for new supporters getting into the beautiful game but I was watching people who obviously had not had much experience watching football. Some of the comments were ridiculous.

Fair credit to the England supporters. They did their part and travelled in their thousands.

Now we can get back to Everton. Sligo Rovers and Roma. I'll try to make Coventry.

Everton the Gear!

Great analysis.

A manager who is going to win anything has to play to the strengths of the players rather than the team. Dycheball or similar may suit the manager's insecurities, but it takes players to be in a system where they are playing at the top of their game. This is especially so when the players in depth are available.

Spain have nailed that transformation. The FA are a long way off that. I remember Spain in the 1980s and Northern Ireland beating them, after preparing in Brighton.

We used to have a serious ego problem and cliques in the squad (Gerrard era) but that seems to have gone - although I thought Bellingham showed signs of believing his own hype and I was annoyed with Saka (who otherwise has been very good) when he clearly didn't want to play left back when we needed him to (against Slovakia?).

The (presumably new) manager will need to sort this out.

Do we have a lack of a footballing identity? Why is it so hard to put a team together? Do Spain have a great footballing identity? Their players joined up from a variety of teams in a variety of countries and looked like they slotted in well.

Given the strength of England as a footballing location, it's stretching the probability percentages that we haven't won anything in approaching 60 years.

There's got to be some reason. Half these players are playing under Spanish managers... It's not like they're 4-4-2 and "Hit Les".

Southgate, like most English managers, is too timid to make the hard choices. The media pick certain players as undroppable and they toe the line to avoid criticism.

A brave manager would've realised Kane and Bellingham were not a 100%. That if we were going to play on the counterattack, we needed faster players, and that Rice needed a dependable partner in midfield to form an understanding and not just throwing in the flavour of the month to see if it worked.

Anyway, I've now resigned myself to never seeing England or Everton ever winning another major tournament in my lifetime. It's the hope that kills.

I agree with Brian @82. I thought that Rice never seemed to have the energy he possessed in the last Euros, but realize that he has played loads more high-level games of football since he joined Arsenal and these type of games are very taxing.

Southgate seems to have installed a lot more professionalism into the England camp and it also looks like he's really united the squad but he has also been very lucky with the way the side of the draw has gone every time England have gone far in a major competition.

Despite this, Gareth always seems to go with a very small core group of players which is also very taxing on the players who never get rested and I think this was evident once again last night.

Football identity has a lot to do with it. Players familiar with a system of play, that plays to their strengths. But in England's case, the whole set-up is over-shadowed by a conservative FA and a media machine of hype that seems to infect the players.

Even on ToffeeWeb, English fans are put off. There is more of a humility regarding the Spanish set-up, based on technical and tactical hard work.

The appointment of Southgate is based on damage limitation and doing enough to satisfy these qualms. That is why I would not be surprised if Southgate leads at the next World Cup.

At Everton as at England, what you need a winning team off the pitch, as well as on it. England in 1966 had that, but it has fallen short ever since, as the objective is self-preservation and not winning a trophy.

I did detect a slight change in attitude this time, that I had not come across before, but what unfolds is anybody's guess. Relying on penalties and set-pieces is not good enough to win a trophy.

A conservative approach and a defensive formation make actually winning — as distinct from surviving for the penalty shoot-out — rather difficult.

Where were they before kick-off? I didn't hear any of this criticism on Saturday or Sunday. Were they scared we might win?

"We were not ambitious enough"… "Our winger and midfielders didn't track back". Two contradictory opinions expressed, often by the same people.

How about just admitting we ran into a better team who still needed a desperate goalline clearance to get over the line.

Some of these England players are world class, but in the Premier League every team plays differently. They all have different agendas and they all employ different tactics. We see the whole gamut. From Pep's Tippy-Tappy to Rob Edwards's crash-bang-wallop.

After training these players to play one way all season, we don't understand why we don't get cohesive performances when we throw them all together or a few weeks.

This tournament is not like it was back in the day when eight teams competed for the trophy. There are three times as many teams competing for it today, with far more difficult qualifying rounds. So-called second-rate nations are very well drilled and even the best can struggle to get past them.

Southgate gets no cigar, but he deserves credit for getting his team to two back-to-back finals. None of the other current European teams have managed that. None of the previous England managers have even come close.

If they had been fortunate enough to win, they would have been criticised as boring, lucky, not the best team in the tournament, didn't beat anybody decent to get to the final etc.

Why don't fans and pundits give them some credit?

Saka is a decent player but cuts inside too often. Of course
there was never any threat down the left side and how
Gordon was never used, at least as a sub, will forever remain a mystery.

Dropping Grealish for Eze was a big mistake as, apart from the footballing side, he was a really popular member of the squad. His great mate Rice obviously missed him as he always looked as if he was about to burst into tears.

As for the future, Spain and Germany will only get better, as will Portugal once Ronaldo and Roberto have gone.

Give the job to a manager who wants to play entertaining football. At the end of the day, it's just football. I'd rather we died trying than watch dire, nervy football. Unleash them, let them enjoy it, for fuck's sake!

He is very risk-averse and his teams reflect that.

I would have rather crashed and burned earlier in the competition with his team playing attacking football.

We all see enough percentage stuff with the Blues to last a lifetime.

He also comes across as a decent human being.

We were shit when he took over, and he's taken us to 2 Euro finals and a World Cup semi-final — for that, he deserves credit. I won't sit here and slag him off, nor the team for anything other than one lapse in the 86th minute where we were wide open in midfield and let them waltz through us to score the winner.

We needed to be compact and tight at that stage, not let 4 players get caught ahead of the ball while our defensive midfielders were on top of our defence — the gap was huge, and that's very poor game management with only a few minutes to go.

I don't particularly like the mindset more generally, but at that stage, and at 1-1, you have to be playing for extra-time. If you concede, you're doomed and that's how it played out.

I think Southgate should (and will) be remembered fondly in years to come but I also think the time is right to step down and let someone else have a go. With the talented players we have to pick from, we can win something in the coming years and I still believe we will.

Also an honourable mention for Spain who are a very good side, and won every game — I believe that's a first in a Euros so fair play to them. They deserved to win the title. We were a little naïve come the last few minutes, and it cost us.

Seeding was a factor of who won their qualifying group, followed by ranking based on results. Then the knockout draw was aligned to the position you finished in your group. Both sides of the draw had 3 group winners in it.

There's no element of luck whatsoever, unless you want to argue that the day of extra recovery for the final is just the luck of the draw.

Playing, say, Italy wouldn't be harder than playing the team that battered them.

The best team won.

Rice and Rodri, who were mainstays for their clubs, didn't have the same energy levels.

I have to laugh at Lineker and Shearer, who said before the tournament that Rice was on a par with Rodri? He wouldn't lace his boots.

I still think that Southgate is still too defence-minded, and if Kane wasn't fit, why keep playing him? The big players didn't turn up: apart from Kane, Foden, Rice, Bellingham and Saka were average.

I'm not a fan of Gordon now but he would have given Carvajal a roasting, and not bringing Grealish and Rashford was a big mistake.

I would also like to see that from an English team, especially now that we also play with a lot more control with regard to being able to keep possession, even if a lot of it is just for the sake of it.

England have come a long way with regard to getting results on the big stage but we need to look into ourselves a lot further and find a way to combine the old-style English way with this much more controlled football we now watch.

Some people will say that this controlled football is boring but it's also very important and shouldn't be hard for top level footballers to achieve. Southgate has had 8 years, so the style of play most definitely comes from a manager who simply hasn't tried to evolve!

England's last two goals in the tournament came from very fast aggressive, forward-running football; for whatever reason, I don't think that Gareth set his stall out for his team to play this way anywhere near enough.

TransferMarkt have him at £22M. They are having a laugh. At least £50M now.

Football has become a squad game and, with teams now allowed to use five subs, hard running is only going to get stronger, and this is something I expect to be implemented more and more over the next few years.

I'm not sure if Gordon could roast a potato, let alone Carjaval.

That surely has to be a first.

I think you are right. There is a touch of Davey Moyes about Southgate. Give either man good players and they would give you a good team. Give them brilliant players and they would probably still give you a good team.

Goals are what make tournaments. When the highlight footage of this tournament is compiled, people will see that England made a great contribution to the success of it. Bellingham, Saka, Watkins and Palmer all scored goals which will live long in the memory.

The opinions seem to be:

- The media hound the manager about non-football issues;
- English players don't have the technical ability and grow up playing 11-a-side on muddy pitches;
- The Premier League stifles the development of English players;
- Top players think of playing for England as a burden.

Looking back, we seem to have addressed most of those problems. We're producing players who can play at the very top level, who can play possession football. Southgate played a part in that in his youth development role:

Southgate's role in FA youth coaching revolution sowed seeds for success

He's also improved the situation with the media, though I wonder whether that's because he's such an uncontroversial figure. We haven't heard of odd beliefs or affairs which might be because he doesn't have any. Or maybe he simply has improved the relationship.

His legacy might be massive.

Now it feels like we're onto the last problem which the documentary didn't bring up. Is there a genuinely good football manager out there who wants to manage England?

As for England, Southgate only really trusts a deep-lying defensive game although he did make his changes count (if too late) once the group was won.

Walker had a couple of poor games. His pace often makes up for poor decision-making and last night Saka was marooned upfield as they broke and he was left exposed with no cover. The second goal also was prodded home on his patch.

Stones looked world class and Pickford didn't make any errors.

Gordon was not trusted by Southgate but, even with wingers, our midfield lacked guile.

Bellingham tried to play everywhere. But it's a team game.
Kane is either carrying an injury or over the hill.

He had Eze, Toney, Palmer and Watkins but only used them in desperation and amazingly still wouldn't start them the next time around.

Arnold, Trippier and Gallagher were failures as a result of Southgate's bungling.

Persisting with a struggling line-up led to the inevitable failure yet again by our national team and Southgate must now quit.

I've always been a believer in partnerships. I may be biased, and I'm happy to be shot down, but I would have taken Tarkowski and Branthwaite. Instead, England tend to go for the media darlings.

I remember back to the 1986 World Cup when there were four Everton players on the pitch. They all understood each other. Unfortunately, they had to play against Maradona's Argentina. Forget the hand of god, probably one of the best players to grace the game.

I would have swapped Palmer for Saka instead of Mainoo, Cucurella was more dangerous than Saka, who with the skill he has, should be attacking the fullback more, and didn't help out Walker defensively.

Mainoo is going to be some player; at 18 he made the midfield position his own.

If you are going to play a low block and count on breaks, perhaps because the players are too knackered to undertake an organised high press, then you need a pacy forward, not a lumbering, slow one.

And if, because the players cannot play from the back and through midfield, or you ask them not to, you ask for the goalie to hoof it up field most of the time, you need someone who can win the first header, and at least one other close by who can run on to knockdowns. Just remember how often the ball was hoofed up to Kane only for his opponent to win pretty much every aerial duel.

Southgate is a decent, likeable honourable man and he has certainly restored good camaraderie between the players. He'd make an excellent Director of Player Welfare. But in the course of a long league season, my own view is he would fall way short as a Premier League manager.

And I agree that a role 'upstairs' with England might be the best value he can provide.

Which still leads us to the problem of who replaces him. There aren't any obvious English candidates. Dyche, Potter, Howe and Lampard are the top English managers around? I can't think of a particularly successful English manager. And going for a foreigner seems like a recipe for the bad old days of media obsession with the coach.

All of this obviously assumes that he opts to step down, because he's not getting sacked based on his record.

I'm fine, actually.

He played an immobile and unfit striker, based on reputation only. Kane could neither press defenders, run the channels, win headers nor interface with his No 10 or midfield.

Foden and Bellingham both prefer the No 10 slot, and putting one of them on the wing to shoehorn them into the side failed. Based on their form in the tournament, I would have played Cole Palmer in the No 10 position.

Southgate had four wingers in the squad and regularly played only one of them in Saka. Contrast that to Spain who kept Morata up from and Jamal and Williams pinned to the wings. The midfield combination did not work at all until Mainoo stepped in (Arnold in midfield!), nor did it quite work after.

Picking only one semi-fit left-back in the squad was a massive blunder, as Trippier struggled in that position. Also, Southgate's low block in the final just invited pressure.

If we counted up how many minutes of the tournament England played well, it would be quite a low total. They survived on doggedness and individual moments, and I am probably not alone in thinking that the manager never solved the issues he faced in the squad.

Pickford
Arnold Stones Guehi Shaw
Mainoo Rice
Saka Palmer Gordon
Watkins.

I honestly think this team would have posed Spain far more problems last night… if they were allowed to play with attacking intent.

Fortunately, most of us won't lose sleep over it.

Spain were the best of a moderate tournament and, once again, Southgate got the luck of the draw, therefore it was an opportunity missed.

But this media myth about England having world class players needs knocking on the head. Being effective at club level on the back of better foreign players does not make for "world class" as Foden, Rice and arguably Bellingham amply demonstrated.

Southgate played the same sideways, backwards passing game throughout and it's obvious why — we're just too error-prone to do anything else.

Dire game.

Gary Lineker was saying the same thing about Klopp but then went on to say it should be Frank Lampard…

I've criticised Southgate ever since and the previous final against Italy at Wembley just reconfirmed my worst fears ie he's not up to the job. He's swayed too easily by the media (in Jordan's case, he showed some backbone), appears afraid to upset his favourites eg Walker, Kane, Rice etc… tries to fit in players out of their natural positions etc…

He seems to be a nice man but he's not a winner. He's more suitable to a desk job at the FA away from the hustle and bustle of the changing room. You had your chance, Gareth, and you blew it.

Wilkommen Herr Klopp?

ps: Somebody on TalkSport mentions Dyche. Can you believe that?

Funny seeing Pickford reduced to launching long ball after long ball as if he had Dominic up the other end to bring them down.

Every Pickford-launch, corner, free kick into the box, I was thinking, "Calvert-Lewin would be perfect for this game."

And for his wonderful skill, I never noticed how slow Foden is until yesterday.

Also, I always thought Saka was really quick. But that bushy-haired Spanish defender had Saka in his pocket. A couple of times, Nico Williams covered him and Saka couldn't do anything against him either.

Beside skills, Spain was a lot faster all over the pitch except for Walker.

His big breakthrough is calm, tactical, patient football (boring?) to get past the quarters and (very importantly) uniting the squad. This was enabled because he brought through a lot of the squad from the U21s (and Ernie's suggestion of Carsley makes plenty of sense too but the media will hate it).

But his big failing is that, ultimately, he's just not a very good coach or tactician — and was unable to craft a functioning side with brilliant players at his disposal. He managed to set the side up to make Kane, an exceptional striker in fantastic form, look like Solomon Rondon after an eat-as-much-as-you-can buffet.

The side was crying out for width and pace and we were (let's be brutally honest) lucky to have made the final after being 90 seconds away from going out to Slovakia, 12 mins from going out to Switzerland, and getting a 90+ minute winner against the Dutch.

I hope whoever takes the team on from here makes Bellingham fight a bit harder for his place in the side. I like Mainoo though. Terrific footballer and good attitude. My cup of tea that lad. Palmer too — great personality.

Mr Southgate has loyalty and friendship over form. He knew Kane had no form, substituted twice or more, and still played him. Kane was not the only one with no form.

Agreed we have moved forward but these players need more. Most of the players play under managers who are ruthless in selection and manage top players and their egos.

Spain deserved the trophy. Energy, pace and belief. If Mr Southgate stays, he must learn quickly but I fear he's too nice to change. If he goes, thank you.

"He managed to set the side up to make Kane, look like Solomon Rondon after an eat-as-much-as-you-can buffet".

I have read some funny things on TW, but your comment must rank up there with the best!

Southgate is a lot like Moyes — his default position is caution. Go with the tried and tested players, play low-risk, percentage football.

The big difference between Southgate and Moyes of course is that Southgate actually has a huge array of talent at his disposal — Saka, Palmer, Bellingham, Foden, Rice, Stones, Pickford — are all players that any coach would love to have.

As others have mentioned, Southgate has failed to meld that talent into a system that allows them to play to their strengths. What Southgate has achieved is not to be sniffed at but, like Moyes, I don't think he has the self-belief of a natural-born winner.