Everton look to sign Carlos Alcaraz on loan

Not sure what the purchase price is but if it’s under £14m then it could be a very sensible move.

Old school that no one seemed to know about this till deal was announced by Flanengo!

Is he available for tomorrow's bench ?

Very much can play anywhere, other than LB and CB.

Primarily RFd,but has a decent Left foot too.

At 22 he is at a good age to either to develop or sell on, and he's not a prolific goal scorer or provider, but he has, looking at his stats, a very good engine for a young player.

Good work team Moywell-TFG 👍💙

played 104

Goals:14.

Assists: 7

Booked: 18

Moyes was probably meaning Alcaraz when he mentioned the quality of player we'll sign this window due to FFP.

I'm hoping for Carney Chukwukemeka from Chelsea. Cracking player when Chelsea rotated and used him.

I owe you an apology for 'dropping you in it' on the other thread, where you said Mangala wouldn't be recalled.

When I posted on the Transfer Window thread that he wouldn't, I had read it from French press.

Why he has been recalled is to oversee his Rehab, and as far as I can see, his Loan has been terminated too.

Which thankfully means his wage is off the books, and as such has probably enabled this loan..?

Good wishes Sam.

PS You're no relation to Col. Mike Hoare are you?

He is certainly the right age if he proves to be good, towards any rebuilds, should we make his loan a permanent one. Look forward to see what he can offer !

let's hope he's better than his Dad.

Ian@15, Gana has arguably been our best player this season and will start every match when fit.

I anticipate us getting Chuck a butty from Chelsea on loan and sending Harrison back to Leeds and the spending what's left on a striker of sorts. Pity we missed out on Tom Cannon IMO.

Only if certain targets are reached Jay.

We have the option to buy which, as I say, can become mandatory if certain targets are reached.

Other clubs seem to shop from that particular continent and usually you find these lads are technically gifted and have a nasty streak to match a work ethic.

I had to look twice to see the words "attacking midfielder" so it's refreshing on that front anyway that it's not yet another holding player.

We are crying out for a new technician in that midfield so here's hoping.

I'd see him sitting alongside Gueye, with probably Doucs at 10 still, until Jimmy-G is fit, then Charly to 10 and Garner at 8 alongside Gueye.

I doubt he'll be eligible to play tomorrow (hopefully it's all been done under the radar and he's passed his fitness tests and got his playing clearances, but...)

Also, as several have said, what a refreshing change, we sign a player, and the first we fans hear of it is via confirmation we've signed him.!

Charly Alcaraz to Everton, "Here we go!"

Deal signed today

PS I wonder if this is the sort of gamble that Moyes was referring to in his presser today?

He's coming for a medical tomorrow I think. Knowing our luck he'll fall down the aircraft steps and do his ACL.

Not doubting you, but it is highly unlikely we'd sign a player who hasn't had a fitness assessment. Oh, hang on we're Everton..? Hehe

That might be why Sky are poo-pooing it's a done deal while Fabrizio says it's a done deal.

I hope he does well with us. "In our shirt Is our man"

He looked a tidy player alright, I think he will chip in, but I think he'll be the type of player to feed our wingers for the 'Big Chance' / assist ball.

In any regard, once we have Jimmy back up to fitness and Timmy coming back, he'll make a superb upgrade on Doucs.

Though in fairness we owe Doucs our PL status and some "good times". Unfortunately as with us all, Father Time is a cruel parent.

PS Day 43/100 and we make our first signing under our new custodianship

I think Sky were being careful as the agreement was "subject to medical" but I'm now not sure whether he's had that or not yet.

Likely to be a good technical player, goal contributions and a good age.

Sounds like a Thelwell signing

I have a feeling, that with the deal being announced this late on a Friday, it may well be subject to papers and medical first.

He has played twice for Argentina, so that should mean he gets his papers, not to mention he played for Soton.

Just his medical. The fact that he has only had two injuries and just missed 55 days of playing time in nearly six years. I expect him to fly thru the medical too.

A great addition for the FA cup game methinks!

Loan him, but pay as you play with a review of his performance before we commit.

What is that meant to mean? If Charly can be a positive addition to the squad, I wouldn't care how many relegations he has on his CV.

One player doesn't relegate a team...

Read Rob's post at [33] and Brian at [23]

There are some wonderful players over there and hopefully Charly is one of them.

Morrisons biggest achievement in life is eradicating the phrase”you know what ah mean” from his vocabulary in his time as a football “expert”.

On Lyndon's second project 'Evertonia', in the article on there regards Alcaraz, he has stated that the deal is dependent on passing his medical, so I assume you're correct regards his medical, whether tomorrow or Sunday, to sort his personal situation out at home maybe. I.e. just the usual stuff, sorting the cat out and milk etc.. hehe

Weird he went off to juve and then flamenco for their record signing only to be going out on loan 6 months later.

It's only a loan so let's see what he has to offer, 22 years of age, and experience in the prem is a bonus. Bit more concerning juve and flamenco have got shut pretty quickly.

(trying to use up all the tennis jokes here)

Alcaraz will provide some maximum security in the midfield as long as we don't cage him up or leave him on an island.

(trying to use up all the prison puns here)

Svein-Roger and Pete Day, thanks for those scouting reports.

Simon, no, he has not made his full debut for Argentina... just the U23s.

That's Euro's.

It's around £64m, still ridiculous though.

“It’s certainly not for the want of trying. Undoubtedly we’re still hampered with PSR. I’m really jealous of watching a lot of teams who can attempt to go for players at expensive prices. At the moment, we’re not quite there but we don’t want to get ourselves in a position we’ve been in before with points deductions so we have to be really mindful of what we do. We hope to bring in some players but maybe it’s not the ones who, if we really had the money, we’d be trying to do.”

The Everton manager admits the PSR challenges have increased his admiration for the business conducted by his predecessor, Sean Dyche, and director of football, Kevin Thelwell, to keep the club afloat in the Premier League in recent seasons. “I’ve been really surprised at the way it’s restricting the football club,” Moyes added. “Everton’s a huge football club and should be competing with many of the big clubs in the country and hopefully spending in a way where it’s right and challenging for the big players who are available.

“There’s not that many in January, to be honest, but the PSR is hindering us. I think I can see now why the last few years at Everton have been so difficult. The people who’ve had to work under the restrictions have done a remarkable job.”

Interesting that he apparently wasn't clear on our situation BEFORE he joined the club.

Worth having a look at at only 22 the sort of younger players fans have been asking for, Guaye and Doucoure are not getting any younger, so this lad might slot in alongside Iroegbunam and Garner for the long term future.

Firstly, does this mean we have managed to cancel someone's loan? If so, presumably Mangala - because otherwise we wouldn't have another loan space free?

Otherwise, it kind of illustrates where we are as a club at the moment. Although Alcaraz has some talent and did well at Saints in their last relegation season (6 goal contributions in 18 games), he isn't now a sought after player.

His career seems to be on a downward trajectory and he's behind the likes of Buonanotte of Leicester (on loan from Brighton) in the Argentina set-up (in fact Alcaraz has never been capped by Argentina).

Really, we are signing him because he is available - and in truth there probably aren't many players we would be remotely interested in who are available to us and might actually improve the side. Very, very few.

But, on the upside, he is young - and has possibly just had a series of unfortunate transfers since leaving Argentina as a 19/20 year old. Varela and Danilo were the other two top prospects who left South America at about the same time - and both have done well at Porto and Forest respectively.

Everton could be the right club at the right time. If it happens, I'll be excited to see him play as the more advanced of a trio in a 433 - and certainly a much more technically gifted player than Doucoure in that role.

Ok, so West Ham are based in London, so what, doesn’t mean any player should go there just because of that. They are a fuck all club,in a shithouse stadium and have won fuck all.

And Paul, # 100…..no they haven’t! He’s not going to West Ham.

Dont remember anyone championing Ndiaye before we got him either so, I'm keeping my opinion on this fella to my self, untill I see him in the blue shirt!

Loans between Premier League clubs and other English counterparts are officially called temporary transfers.

Under the rules in the Premier League Handbook 2024/25 (Download PDF, size: 18.2MB), there are restrictions on how many players Premier League clubs can loan from other Premier League/English clubs.

They are:
- Premier League clubs may not register more than two players on loan at any one time.
- The maximum number of loans registrable in the same season is four, and, under no circumstances, shall more than one be from the same club at any one time.
- Premier League clubs cannot loan to another Premier League club a player they have acquired in the same transfer window.
- A Premier League club may loan not more than one of its goalkeepers to another Premier League club.

With the exception of Welsh clubs competing in the competitions listed under Rule V.6.2, loans from a club in membership of another National Association do not count towards the above quotas.

Moyes has looked at the financials and said. "shit !!! How've you kept this ship sailing ??? ""

I'm of the feeling Thelwell has provided decent enough players, with the Psr restrictions, it was just the manager that held the team back.

Bit more wiggle room with PSR, better manager, better tactics we could see ahuge improved Everton!

Think it's seven.

Dyche’s football was killing us but managing Everton, was obviously doing the same thing to Sean Dyche, and if he was told there was no money, then I’m glad he did the honest and honourable thing, by telling TFG, that he couldn’t really carry on because of the current debilitating nature of managing Everton FC.

Every game is big, but I personally think tomorrow’s game is the biggest game of our season, so far, because it could really pull us away, or suddenly pull us a lot closer, to the relegation zone.

Ipswich currently have 4 loans, and are looking at further loan deals in the striker department. No mention of any loan signings being released. Mckemna doesn't sound hopeful though.

So either u21s don't count or overseas loans with an obligation to buy are treated differently. Alcaraz is an obligation to buy interestingly, rather than a straight loan.

Assuming Mangala is terminated, then that is either covering Alcaraz or is indeed another spot. The timing of the announcements will probably highlight this.

Id be very surprised if you could loan 6 players last year, and only 4 this year. The fifa rules didn't do that for sure, and I'd be surprised if Premier league rules have changed that much this season.

Let's see.

Yes under 21's are treated differently. Does that explain the Forest situation?

Tony #123, great point, although I wonder whether TFG viewed their conversation with Dyche as doing the "honest and honourable thing" because of the clear hostility of the parting. Based on TFG's terse statement, I'm not sure they would describe Dyche in those terms.

If that's the rule, I'd be going hard for Karim Konate out of Red Bull Salzberg on a loan with obligation to buy. He's U21, Red Bull have been knocked out of the Champions League, and would offer an exciting future.

He's the type of young and up and coming player we need to be looking at. A good goal scoring record, admittedly in a lower league.

What they making these lads out if?

I tend to agree with Robert. It’s a bit of a strange move for a player who’s never really taken off anywhere but still has time to do so. His versatility could be useful to Moyes. Like an Argentinian Philip Neville.

Am curious to see where he fits in and whether the Southampton fans saying he’s got a terrible touch for an Argentine are right or just bitter.

As for Konate - it's as Mike says he's seriously injured. Good player but then so was Koita until injured and now he's completely disappeared.

There's really only 3 strikers in world football I'd be confident would prove good signings from the off; they are Delap, Ferguson and Giminez. Whether they are really gettable is another matter. They will all cost a much much bigger fee than we've spent for about 6 years - and have plenty of options too.

Once you get below £40m for a striker the output is very hit and miss.

I miss the rants from Claret & Booze, someone here - probably Rob? - turned me onto that site a few years back, and their hatred of Moyes was more entertaining than 90% of the PL footy I've watched in the last few years. Not to mention their hatred of the WHU ownership and the stadium. That channel is pure comedy gold!

I did not expect a injured Managla to make way for Alcartz.It is possible that a forward will move so a replacement is brought in.

It's seems that PSR is still a consideration and trying to work in available players is difficult.

Frankly, whilst I don't at all differ from that take I suspect our Davie is also erecting a defence in the event that this season goes pear-shaped, because I'd be amazed that he, Moyes, didn't see right through Kenwright as the mega-twat he always was by 2004 at the latest.

Moyes then massively feathered his own nest for a further decade whilst Kenwright was bleating about being skint and resorting, publicly, to all sorts of evasion and masquerade as a bona-fide club owner.

In the meantime Moyesey clocked up more games than anyone except Wenger and that United dickhead and got very rich indeed for achieving the square root of fuck-all.

"Professional" football? AS IF!!

*** MEA CULPA *** (AKA My bad!)

FIFA regulations, incorporated by the PL, state;

"FIFA has announced new loan rule plans that will limit clubs to six loan signings, and six loan exits per season, starting from the 2024/25 season; Club-trained players, or players aged 21 or younger are exempt from rules"

"Clubs will also be restricted to the number of deals they can do with one team in another country, with three players in and three players out at any given point."

"The length of loan deals has also been looked at by FIFA. The minimum loan deal will be between two transfer windows while the maximum loan will be one year."

Then as Rob H at [114] has thankfully already typed out, here are the PL (Domestic League) regulations as per the PL Handbook 2024/25, P.138, Rules V.5-V.10, with reference to Rules V.1-V.4.

"The maximum number of players allowed on loan is 4…FOUR (MY insert: at any one time!)

Two from this country, see here:
V.6. Subject to the conditions set out below, a Temporary Transfer shall be permitted:

V.6.1. between Clubs; (PL Clubs)

V.6.2. between a Club (PL) and a club in membership of The Football League, the National League, the Northern Premier League, the Isthmian League and
the Southern League; and

V.6.3. between a Club that has its registered address in Wales and a club in membership of the Welsh Premier League.

- Premier League clubs may not register more than two (Domestic) players on loan at any one time.

- The maximum number of (Domestic) loans (See rule V.6 and sub paras above) registrable in the same season is four, and, under no circumstances, shall more than one be from the same club at any one time.

- Premier League clubs cannot loan to another Premier League club a player they have acquired in the same transfer window.

- A Premier League club may loan not more than one of its goalkeepers to another Premier League club.

With the exception of Welsh clubs competing in the competitions listed under Rule V.6.2, loans from a club in membership of another National Association do not count towards the above quotas.

Therefore to simplify it (and for my sanity after having about five stabs at this now)

We can have four loan signings at anyone time. Unless the additional loan signings are club-trained players, or players aged 21 or younger, who are exempt from rules.

We cannot have more than two 'domestic' loans at anyone time, and no more than four 'domestic' loans in a season, unless they are club-trained players or players aged 21 or younger, who are exempt from rules.

During any season a club cannot loan in, or out more than SIX players.

This is a rule change for 2024/25, as last year the number was seven; it has now been reduced to six.

So that is we can loan in 6 players max, AND 6 players out max.

Currently Everton have used five of their six loans in.

Broja (Chelsea) Domestic
Harrison (Leeds) Domestic
Lindstrøm (Napoli) Serie A
Mangala (Lyon) Ligue 1 - Loan cancelled, player injured.
Alcaraz (Flamengo) Brazil Serie A

I hope this helps, and if I got it wrong this time, please Michael, just bar me from posting in future!

Also, may I apologise for also stating somewhere, that Carlos Alcaraz has two caps for Argentina, he has two U23 caps.
He has been selected for the Argentina squad four times in his career, but he yet to make a match appearance.

As a last aside here is a link to a Soton supporters group, with a few thoughts on Charly Alcaraz;

Charly Alcaraz

Ian [125]

Re Forest and their six loan signings from last year, here is the breakdown;

Forest 2023/24 Loan Signings in

Thanks for the International credential correction.

That Guardian article you posted up, is verbatim what Moyes said at his presser. That ain't no interview. It is a lazy journo regurgitating what had been said and dressing it up as 'copy'...

If you don't believe me, relisten to the presser 😁👍💙

BTW when you commented on Rob T's post about 'hostility' to Dyche as per their parting note.

I don't think they were hostile to Dyche, I just think they were pissed at him.

They expected that Dyche could do a threepeat and keep us up, and hoped to be able to deal with the manager situation at the end of June.

As we all know, when you're expectations are not met, you tend to feel anywhere from mildly disappointed to flaming furious depending on what your expectations were and what you actually got.

Also, as you say, US Business culture, is thanks for all the fish, your desk has been cleared and security will escort you to the door...

I suggested we go after him when Saints were relegated Jun 2023 but Juve got him in on loan in Jan 2024. After returning from Juve in Jun 24, Saints then sold him to Flamenco for £18m.

Thanks for the correction on Moyes, and for posting the link to the Saints chat board. Very interesting comments.

Re Dyche and the Friedkins, I think when ownership doesn't even include the ritual "thanks" in the final release, it says things got hostile. Perhaps the contract release negotiations got intense. We'll never know, but...

He looks like he has quick feet and can spot a pass. From his highlights reels he looks to me more of a Doucoure replacement, giving us more end product hopefully.

There really is a lack of activity and I fear this may be the only signing though I believe we are in the mix for a few, just not an attractive proposition at the moment.

Brobbey, Ferguson or Igamane would do for me at this stage, I particularly like Ferguson though imagine he is out of our league. Brobbey is fast and powerful and Igamane looks like a talent, albeit in Scotland. Come on Thelwell, get yer finger out!

I expect the "complexity" aspect is to do with Broja returning to Chelsea, in order to free up the loan space.

If this, and Alcaraz, both go through, we will have two new midfielders.

I wonder if, behind the scenes, we are also working on getting in a striker?

I don't think we can send Broja back even if Chelsea were amenable.

What makes you say that Brendan?

Is that to do with Simon's loans explanation?

From the Premier League Handbook (emphasis added):

V.7.4. subject to any conditions imposed by the Board in the exercise of its discretion under Rule V.4.2, the minimum period of a Temporary Transfer shall be the period between two consecutive Transfer Windows and the period of a Temporary Transfer shall not extend beyond 30 June next after it was entered into, save that the Board may, in its absolute discretion, permit a Temporary Transfer to be terminated before the commencement of the second Transfer Window (subject to such conditions as the Board deems appropriate);

And then further down as a footnote:

An example of the circumstances in which the Board might exercise its discretion in Rule V.7.4 is where a Player subject to a Temporary Transfer is unable to represent the Club temporarily holding his registration due to a long-term injury. In such circumstances, the Board might approve the termination of the Temporary Transfer on the condition that the Player is prohibited from making any first team appearances at the Club with which he re-registers, during the remaining period of the original Temporary Transfer.

Perhaps I'm reading this wrongly but it suggests to me that the Premier League (the Board) would only have considered approving a request to terminate Broja's loan agreement on the basis that the player has suffered a season ending injury only if the request was made before the January transfer window opened.

A bad touch for an Argie, might be good enough to get him into having a great touch in our current squad, Sam, and you could definitely understand TFG’S disdain Mike, if it’s true that Dyche, still wanted all his money after being so honest!

If there is a remote possibility, then hopefully Chelsea, can take Borja back and loan us Dewsbury-Hall, and if we could do this and then sign another forward, then suddenly we would have a much stronger and varied squad.

Sorry Brendan I hadn’t read your post mate, but surely the league would ratify Everton swapping players with Chelsea, if that said Player has got a lot more chance of playing by going on loan🤷‍♂️

after the ten years we've just had, I think making the case that Davey ripped us off financially during his tenure, is a hard sell. He left the club in superb nick, and in fact even after all these years we still saw the glimmers of his previous tenure during our managerial hiatus when we had Baines and Coleman running things from the bench. He was never a top level manager, never rising above 'very good'. But after the decade just gone, very good will do me just fine.

I do get why he irritates you, as he allowed Kenwright to remain unexposed for all those years. But that wasn't his fault, that was him doing his job.

I’d had enough of Kenwright, well before Wayne Rooney, was sold, and I was delighted Moyes left because I saw him as being complicit whilst he was just doing his job.

Moyes left Everton, and stupidly, imo, viewed our club through his years of dealing with the very amateur William Kenwright, but time is such a valuable commodity and I think after moving on with his career, David’s reflection time, has slowly given him a much different view.

He looks delighted to be back and on reflection he seems to be a much calmer man. He’s made massive mistakes like underestimating the job, of two biggest clubs, he has ever managed, imo, and I hope he gets to experience the real and proper view of Everton football club, and this will only happen if TFG, are as professional as I’m hoping they will be💙

So, nobody on here has ever tried to make their job more comfortable? Nobody on here has ever asked for a raise after over-performing at work? Nobody on here has ever chosen to get along with their boss even if they may or may not have considered them a bit of a sycophantic twat?! Who wouldn't try to get a decent salary if it was on the table?

Honestly, get over it. It's like you think he personally brought the club to its knees during his tenure, like there weren't hundreds of other contributing factors connected to our decline as a once great footballing institution.

The man had us over-achieving consistently considering the budget he was given, I accept some struggle to see it but to repeatedly imply he was only in it for himself or even that he lowered our standards (as implied in other posts) is just plain bizarre.

I think he left us a very good team, and if he’d have had a little bit extra in the squad, he might have gotten us into the champions league in his final season, because some of the football we played that had us in the top three (I think) by Christmas, was very enjoyable to watch, but we couldn’t sustain it, because he never really had those extra few players that are required, since football became a squad game.

You know my argument anyway because if Everton did over-achieve in the league (except in those infamous away games) then they definitely underachieved in their cup games and because we could never win the league, then I have always felt - and still do - that every single cup game should always be a lot more relevant to a club like Everton.

It's a tiring debate we've all had for a decade though isn't it? Regardless of what we all think and feel we just need to get on with it now. 3 points today will have this toffee feeling alot more optimistic.

With regard to your last para mate I read it as exactly the opposite. :-)

My take is that the board would only allow a cancellation of loan before the window opens under certain circumstances not that you can't do it after the window opens.

It’s all in the past, an era that needs to be forgotten by many of us, is cherished by many others, who have never seen anything but plucky little Everton, punching above their weight, and it’s those fans that really matter to me, because the passion of the younger Evertonians, has definitely helped keep Everton, in the big league on more than one occasion.

People who have seen nothing but they all understand the meaning of our song… WE SHALL NOT BE FUCKING MOVED!

However, as I have mantioned in other threads, I don't (and I assume none of us), really knows what goes on behind closed doors in the day to day running of EFC.

It would seem inequitable though, for that rule you quote to be applied as, without a crystal ball, how could anyone predict a season ending injury to a borrowed player occuring during the time that the transfer window was open, and therfore applying, before the transfer window opened, to cancel the loan "just in case".

Chris Samuelson getting wheeled in was the one Kevin, but that fortress fund money, that never arrived should have been the end of him, but I think it helped his tenure become more fortress like🤷‍♂️

Does that include your matchday predictions ? :-)

With regards to Alcaraz, Saints fans loved him - this from Saints Marching website.

Clearly put, Alcaraz was the heartbeat for Southampton's 2022/23 season. In only 18 Premier League appearances, with 6 direct goal contributions, the midfielder shined at the St. Mary's.

Club… a proper center forward is going to change eveyrthing. Remember when Broja came on for the last 5 mins I think against Wolves and just looked immense because he was Premier League level. When we have a modern CF who is elite it’s going to be a breath of fresh air…. David Weir is Brighton’s Director of Football. Surely he’ll look out for us and his old gaffer. Him and moyes were in deep conversation before our game Against them last week. I assume Davie told him to sort us out Evan asap

I think Tony A is just being polite in his post @ 159, as the addition of Lukaku, Barry and McCarthey improved the team that Mr Moyes left behind immeasurably.

As for Robert’s claim “it ignores the possibility that things could have been much, much worse. There's a very high likelihood we'd have been relegated without Moyes.”

And, if my auntie had balls she’s be my uncle.

Weak stuff.

Chukwueze for 12 mn from Milan, Ferguson on loan, sending Harrison back and signing Chukwuemeka in his place will be great window.

‘David Weir is Brightons Director of Football. Surely he’ll look out for us and his old gaffer. Him and Moyes were in deep conversation before our game Against them last week. I assume Davie told him to sort us out Evan asap’.

I do enjoy reading your posts Sean.

It hasn’t stopped me supporting Everton lad, and as I said the passion burns strongly in the younger Evertonians, I admire, but the Everton I know always tried to compete.

My first match was in 1975, and when I finally saw Everton, win the cup nine years later it was one of the greatest days of my life, and yet my oldest son, has been going to Goodison for around 25 years, and he has seen England playing in more finals than Everton.

Accept what Kenwright and Moyes conspired between them and you will probably always be happy with seventh, and over the moon with coming best of the rest, but when you have seen Everton, win league titles, it doesn’t make you self entitled, if you want to see more than we have been given for thirty years, imo.

I feel like I have very little in common with a lot of Evertonians, nowadays because I will never accept Everton, just being happy to make up the numbers.

I’m actually leaving for Goodison right now, and I’ve already seen the excitement because I drove down the lancs at half one and the cars are already parked right towards the railway bridge at the end of walton hall Pk.

Hopefully the sleeping giant awakes Sean, because only then will you properly understand, even if you already think you understand now💙

Forest fans will just be happy to be out of the wilderness imo Sean, but winning is what certain clubs should always aspire to, honestly mate

I think they are hilarious Si.

“Hopefully the sleeping giant awakes Sean, because only then will you properly understand, even if you already think you understand now💙”

Sean, nobody is saying “We have an automatic right to success.” just that we can have higher aspirations.

Explain why we can’t have the same aspirations (not the same as expectation) as anyone else?

David Moyes most likely will deliver reality in a pragmatic dose of de Javu. He may be on a return but it is not a second coming, it is a return to best of the rest if it all goes to plan. Stability. Security, Safety.

Great, but it's merely a stepping stone back to were we once belonged and it's a long road.

We have fallen so badly it's amazing we are still in the Premier League, that's not down to any manager, any player but 40,000 matchday fans and a million more who are so bloody minded, angry and proud, who will just not lie down and accept what others would. The club is clawing its way back, unpleasant, difficult certainly, but it's doing it on the backs of the many thousands of stubborn, determined fans who will never accept mediocrity. Better times, better teams, better memories will replace today's pain. It's definitely a long way back, but it will make the victory even sweeter.

I'm sure all of the Newcastle fans are as ardent as Evertonians, and they've not won anything for years. I'm not saying you shouldn't have aspirations of winning things. Otherwise, what's the point? However, it has to be tempered with reality.

I feel Sean's opinion may reflect many Evertonians, post 1990. For all of the Blues who enjoyed success, post WW2 to 1987, just remember, we wouldn't have got half of the shit from the Reds when we were at school. That in itself is enough to diminish your expectations.

It looks like Liverpool are going to win the league, and even though they now have a world wide fanbase and have a lot of the media in their pocket, if Everton were to win the cup, our celebrations would put there’s to shame, so please take the cup very seriously David, and the fans will do the rest🤞

Beat Bournemouth next weekend and I'll allow my imagination to go where yours has already gone.

Matt I agree with your comments that Moyes has never worked for ambitious owners before at Everton. Some would argue that had he been able to the first time we would have kicked on and become a regular fixture in Europe.

It’s not been mentioned enough on here, especially amidst the anti-Moyes vitriol, that this is Moyes mkII and he comes with a lot more experience, to a completely different club with different owners.

He has the platform, the summer rebuild is absolutely crucial. To Thelwell or not to Thelwell? That is the question.

Move on. Did he kill your puppy or something?

Apparently we are in for Tom Watson from Sunderland.

According to The Boot Room, Everton are now battling to sign Tom Watson from Sunderland after Brighton & Hove Albion saw a reported £2m offer turned down by the Black Cats.

Still just 18 years old, the winger is one for the future and one who could yet spark Everton's attack into life for years to come. As the deadline approaches and Sunderland battle to keep hold of the teenager, Everton could yet come swooping in.

People whinge that:

- he stayed for 11 years and won nothing (who else on our range of net transfer spend won anything?),

- he left us on the sly and cost us compensation (and yet they also wanted him gone?),

- he took a decent wage from the club for years (he was an employee, was he supposed to work for free?).

I'd rather we focused on the now, rather than having this seemingly endless group therapy session where people bleat about the past. Instead, people are using the same attack lines they have for fifteen years, when we've since had other managers, all of whom have been paid very handsomely, all of whom have subsequently done a much worse job (possible exception of Carlo, until he couldn't be arsed anymore - and who can blame him after the home invasion), and whose squad management have steadily eroded us to the point where we've been forced to hire David Moyes out of sheer pragmatism.

I never blamed Moyes for that defeat, but I have always thought that he wouldn’t have lasted more than two seasons during any other era in our history.

Even clubs like West Ham have changed now because after delivering their first trophy in 43 years, which was massive for a club that haven’t got much of an honours list, even they decided to get rid of David Moyes.

He’s a wiser, calmer and more experienced manager now and possibly realises how lucky he was to work for Bill Kenwright, when you look at Everton, before and after David’s first appointment, because he will surely realise that no other manager got given so long, and this only happened because his professionalism, kept the fans away from hounding Kenwright, out of the club.

Fast forward to now and hopefully the man has changed and more than anything else, he wants to deliver silverware to Evertonians, because this is a lot more important than coming 5/6or7th🤞

You pay a premium to do it early. Or you sign players with no other options (but why would we take them early when we still have options?).

We're trying to pick up those who have missed the boat and need a life raft. I reckon it's going to go to the last few hours.

On the 2009 final, I was worried about scoring early against Chelsea.

I remember Osman and Hibbert being given a torrid time.

But what stuck out was Lescott giving a player of Drogba's calibre too much space and a free run to put a thumping header into the back of our goal.

The 2-1 scoreline suggests that, on paper, it was close. I don't think it was, but Chelsea were a top side at the time.

Good times eh!

It was the last time we stayed up to watch the FA Cup Final but from here in Aus, it certainly looked like Tony had been targeted and was running in sand.

John I have to say, after just watching his skills on youtube myself, I just cannot believe your post!

Interested to see what others think!

Hopefully he'll prove a decent addition