ToffeeWeb MailBag
Letters from our readers — August 2005
 

ToffeeWeb Letters from September 2005

Strike-errrr
Can't believe we haven't signed a striker. That's our season laid to rest. Moyes must really have faith in James Beattie. We could have at least signed a half-decent Bent style striker as cover and competition. Lots of frustrating 4-5-1 displays to look forward to. Even when we were relegation fodder we tended to have a fairly decent strikeforce. Bah humbug.
Daniel Parker, New York, US  (31/08/05)

Yep, afraid so. Beattie only comes into the reckoning if he could stay fit for two weeks in a row. At the moment it's Bent... and that's it.
 

It's 23.15 hrs and still no striker !!
The Ed's comments are completely spot on tonight. No one doubts Davey Moyes capacity for hard work I doubt any manager works harder. But here's a thing, there are a number who work smarter. We can not go to January and have any belief in a top 6 position without anyone who can score goals on a regular basis, FACT.

I and a lot of the old faces were at Fulham on Saturday and for all the huff and puff we got exactly what we deserved. Fulham were nervy from the off and the recent games they have played told you in advance they were short on confidence.

So Davey has the same knowledge we had and still played one up front until it was too late. Great man motivator, great guy but shrewd manager? Methinks not. One of the main reasons for Rooney leaving was because of the over physical approach to training with little emphasis on technique. I have even been told that Rooney hated Moyes at the time of his departure. The one position we needed filling today was that of goal scorer. Don't tell me we could not get Nugent. Ah well it's only 23.30 hrs, still time to go. Tick tock.
Steve Lyth, Ellesmere Port  (31/08/05)

 

10:35 & still no striker?
With less that 2 hours to go before the deadline, there is still no news of a striker transfer. Without a striker, the bolstering of the rest of the team will have been a waste of time & money. The object of football is to score more goals than the opposition. Defending well will at best produce a draw. Come on 'Dithering Dave'. Pull your finger out NOW.
Barry Johnson, Colwyn Bay  (31/08/05)

Ah, if only he'd been listening.

DD and the waste of three months
So Dithering Davie wastes the last day of transfer window poncing at a golf tournament instead of finding a striker, Everton have needed one for more than three months. What the hell is he playing at?

Really looking forward to some negative "holding" football now and watch even mediocre teams scoring goals as their managers had the conviction to address the fucking obvious; the team scoring the most goals wins the game.

Wake up and smell the coffee Davie, our strikers are shite.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (31/08/05)

 

Fact or speculation?
Ed, why do you insist upon discussing DM's so-called 'dithering' as though it's proven fact?

I don't believe you are in a position to know that most of the club's failed summer transfers are due to the manager's mid-negotiation changes of heart, any more than I am.

Unless you've got a *very* good source that is.
Richard Price, Gloucester, UK  (31/08/05)

It's good to question what people write on the internet, and it's certainly the case if it might mean believing something we don't want to believe.... To me, it helps explainan otherwise incomprehensible deriliction of duty in not adeqautely strengthening the squad. It's not an excuse, but it helps as a probable explanation. But if you don't believe it, that is entirely your choice Ed

Andy van der Meyde
Would I be correct in assuming that, if signed, he would become only the second Dutchman to sign for the Blues since Ray Atteveld who was also Dutch?
Tom Bowers, Stanlow  (31/8/05)

I believe so, yes. I can see we need to add a Nationality column to our player database... Ed

The Collina Conspiracy
I'd like to congratulate Nick Armitage on being the first person, to my understanding, that has raised the issue of Collina's deferred retirement and subsequent ass-shafting of our club. I've been banging on to anyone who will listen that the circumstances surrounding our REMOVAL from the Champions League. It would not suprise me if Uefa knew about Collina's sponsorship deal with Opel before our game aginst Villarreal and viewed this as a perfect opportunity to solve the five English teams problem.

As for the draw itself I'll bet the Villarreal ball had been warmed before it went into the hat. The whole situation is very, very dodgy. What pisses me off most about the whole situation is the apathy of the national press about all this. There'd be uproar and investigations if that decision had gone against a G14 club. The national press arent even questioning it. In fact, some papers don't even acknowledge it.

That decision has shattered what little faith and hope I have left in the future of the game as a whole. FUCK UEFA and FUCK G14. Let them have there own little league. BLUE 4 LIFE....... but getting more and more disillusioned, because what's the point if you're not given a chance?
Robbie McGee, Chester  (31/8/05)

Nobodoy loves us,
Everybody hates us,
Why don't we just go and eat worms?

Crocodile Time
31st August 2005
Tick, tock... tick, tock.
Time to make your mind up, Davey!!
Robert Jarvis, Burnley  (30/08/2005)
 

Leave my mate Dave alone
Any fans who are panicking, please just take a chill pill and relax. Moyes is being criticised for waiting this long to buy players. Let's put a different spin on it, shall we? I get the impression that a lot of players like to wait until the deadline to see if any better clubs come in for them. I think Andy van der Metde is a prime example of this. Also it puts more pressure on the selling club. You have 48 hours to decide on wheter to accept that 3M bid for your striker, knowing that there is no time to reject it and negotiate a higher fee.

Its the pro's and cons that Moyes has to weigh up. Sadly he has messed up this time because we have lost 10M in Euro funds. That's a shame and it will be a black mark against his name, but at the same time, calling for him to be sacked is crazy talk. Who else would you like to run this club, smarmy McClaren? Big Sam heart-attack waiting to happen? Or maybe useless Souness. Moyes is a very clever man and I have full confidence that he will lead our club to success.
Paul Coleman, Kettering  (30/08/05)

David Moyes is indeed a very smart coach... but he is also one who makes mistakes. He has admitted as much and he claims to be learning from them. He lost the players in 2003-04, probably through a ridiculous over-emphasis on physical effort expended in training, among other things. He turned that deficit around to massive beneficial effect last season by instilling a sense of unity and purpose that gave meaning and a creative outlet to the sheer effort the players were expending.

But the problem this summer is very clear: Davie has dithered when he should have been decisive; Davie has vacillated when he should have acted with verve and had the courage of his convictions. On somewhere between five and ten occasions when Everton were in active negotiations to bring in specific new players, Davie actually changed his mind and nixed on the deals. THAT is what we are talking about. And THAT is what will cost us so dear this season... Why, as you so rightly say, it already has!

But only an idiot would call for his removal on this basis. He has such promise, and we want that promise to be working for Everton for a long, long time. But he must keep learning from those mistakes and actually rectifying any character flaws that reduce his effectiveness. God knows that is a tough call for anyone (especially this Editor!) but it is what he must do. — Ed

What's the use!
Isn't it amazing at just how many different ways our club's demise and lack of standing in the 'game' is continually highlighted.

The latest humiliation comes in the shape of our latest 'capture' from Porto. Apparently, it needed the advice of another Portuguese person to explain to him who Everton are that it would be a good move for him!

Oh,by the way,as I write I'm sitting in my office just opposite St James Park where there is a thronging crowd awaiting the official announcement of the signing of that 'loyal' blues supporter Michael Owen as their latest capture. Isn't it just peachy being a blue!!

It isn't even as though I am bitter as my colleagues seem to believe I am. Owen is a washed up has-been who isn't a fraction of the player he used to be, but rather that he gave absolutely no seriousness or consideration to the prospect of playing for us (his boyhood team!!!) and yet has chosen to play for these perennial no-hopers. So what does that make us?!

What's the use!
Martin Kulkarni, Newcastle Upon Tyne  (30/08/05)

 

Why oh why!!
Why oh why didn't we sign these new players before we played in the qualifiers for the Champions League? It might have helped!!

31st August looms and I can't see a striker on the horizon... What makes you think Davie wants to stick with Beattie because he doesn't want to be proved wrong having spent all that money on an injury prone striker?

As for Michael Owen - now having talks with Newcastle - why do they all want to go to Newcastle? That mediocre team and an even more miserbale mediocre Manager. I can understand him not wanting to come to Everton - he wouldn't be able to take the flak from the Liverpool supporters would he?
Patricia Beesley, Carmarthen  (30./08./05)

Hmmm... that's a good question... Why didn't we sign X, Y, & Z...?

I wonder... Could it possibly... No, not...

Dithering Dave!!!

Striker Talks Imminent ?
So the rumour mill page states anyway. Don't build your hopes up though because I've heard on good authority that the Daily Mirror are keen on keeping him....though the headlines would certainly put us in the news. 'Dave Storey' signs for Toffees. Come on Toffeeweb don't you think it's hard enough being an Evertonian without you building our hopes up as well?
Brian Williams, Wirral  (30/08/05)

We're just passing along what we've been told, Brian. I'm sure we're going to get pilloried if nothing comes of it, but then again just because we didn't sign someone doesn't mean we weren't given permission and didn't speak with the striker in question now does it? — Lyndon

Well Dithered
Just watched David Nugent slot in two beauties for PNE. According to the Sky commentator they put his price up to 2million! Well dithered, Davie!
David Hall, Taunton  (29/08/05)

 

Some patience please... for Gods sake
Reading the mailbag pages sent my mood plummeting. The general gist of the comments was: same old Everton relegation struggle; it's the manager; it's the Board.... this on the back of our most successful season in the Premiership!!!

How many times when teams are strengthened, do we see where the weakness of that team now is? In our case it's now in a fast pacey forward who can stick the ball in the net consistently.

For me, David Moyes is still the man for the job even if he does dither on transfers, better that than buying the likes of Bakayoko, Amokachi, Bilic, Williamson et al. Yes of course we all wanted Everton to be up there in the close season buying this big name or that big name but the reality is we can't. So let's take a leaf out of Villareal and build this team over a couple of seasons with hopefully the chance of a longer-lasting sustained success the better for us all, with David Moyes the right man for the job.
Jason McClure, Liverpool  (29/08/05)

Three days left... tick... tock... — Ed

Valente
I hope Valente doesn't read this site! He has yet to kick a ball for us and the insinuations are already prevelant...FROM THE ED! Yes he is 30, Yes he is pissed off with his former club... but bloody hell give him a chance! Piss Stone? Valente? Naysmith? Hmmmmmm... nuff said
Keep Your Pecker Up, Porntugal  (27/08/05)

Porntugal? Hmmm... Enuff said indeed! — Ed

The sound of inevitability......again
So many contributors to this forum and the website staff themselves have all raised the same point of the "jaffa" frontline at Everton.

The 4-5-1 formation that served the team proudly last year was as far as many of us understand there to serve the best qualities of the players then in the squad making Everton hard to beat and able to break away for several one nil victories.

Unfortunately, this positive is now a negative millstone dragging both the fans and players alike under. Everton are lumbering like some wounded animal on the pitch, predictable and letharious and truthfully not likely to be able to pull the one nil smash and grabs out of the bag every week.

Beattie was bought as a new striker and we have heard countless times of the manager's support of him to come good - erm yes having spent £6.5m you would wouldnt you? Beattie himself talks the talk but as a lone striker he will never walk the walk, get him a partner or sell him whilst he has any value. McFadden is a similar but much cheaper mistake, if he were any good he wouldnt be a permanent bench warmer, sell him on and move on.

Europe is dotted with many strikers of varying ability and value, just remember top dollar doesnt get you the best - how many goals will the likes of Andy Cole and Darren Bent get this season? The club seems devoid of any scouting initiatives and the balls to make this club a better one by spending the fans cash on players that can take the club to the next level or even keep them at the same level they achieved last season.

As an example of fine club management, all last season we had left back issues - Pistone played his best ever but Watson at the end of the season outplayed him at left back and was then released and the worst two of three potential left backs were re-signed.

Moyes and Bullshit Billy boast of this bid and that bid for this player and that player but that means f**k all to the fans, especially given Billy's track record. We want action, the majority don't want another Leeds but we do want action and leaving it to the last minute to give us "oh sorry we tried" is just utter and complete bollocks, try f**king harder or piss off somewhere else.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (28/08/05)

Beginning of the end!
I've been saying for a while now that I lost faith in David Moyes when he decided that James Beattie was the type of striker he wanted at Everton, and that he was worth a record fee. Moyes is reminding me more and more of Walter Smith. At the end of every game that we have usually lost, he tells us that he's happy with the effort and performance of the players and thinks we've played well!! He values honest effort and workrate above everything else, surely those things should be a given at this level.... but he cannot seem to identify skill and pace.

His tactics have become increasingly negative, ever more so after our purple patch of slightly close and lucky 1-0 wins before last Christmas. We really do seem to try not to lose, until we go 1-0 down, and then try to win with our predictable route 1 football. Lets face it the 'style' of our play is hated by just about everybody including most Evertonians, even when we manage to snatch the occasional close victory.

The fact is Moyes has spent around 25 million since January but we still have what must be the most unskillful, one-paced team in the Premiership. Thats Moyes's fault...the board have backed him to the tune of 25 million!...so you cant keep harping on about them being crap. I want to see Everton play pacy, skillful football and think the money he's spent should have us a lot closer to that than we are. I'm sure the type of football we play is putting the more skillful players off signing for us as the perception of Moyes and Everton is dour and workmanlike...apparently it put Robbie Keane off for one.

I'll always be grateful for him steadying the ship after the nightmare Smith years but I don't think he can take us to the next level and I won't be sorry to see him go.
Mike Price, Songkhla,Thailand  ()

I honestly believe that if he addresses the dearth of talent up front, our style of play will improve immeasurably and we should go on in leaps and bounds from there. It's hard to argue with his focus on effort and team-work seeing as it took us to 4th in the table last season but it's no longer enough. It looks like it's going to be a very competitive season in the Premiership but I think we'll be fine if he can bring in a goalscorer before the deadline — Lyndon

Over to you, Herr Blatter.
While I think it's time that we dropped all talk of conspiracy theories, there is a story coming out of Italy that Mr Collina, the self proclaimed "best referee in the world", has been banned from officiating in AC Milan's games. It seems that he has secured for himself sponsorship for this season to the value of about a million quid from the same company that sponsors AC Milan.

I am surprised that UEFA has had nothing to say on the matter but I would have thought that he should have been stopped from controlling any games in any competition in which AC Milan are participating.
Thommo   (28/08/05)

Dig at Everton?
This article on Sky Sports contains the quote from Scott Parker... "If somebody told me, 'Newcastle have finished fourth in the Premiership', I wouldn't think they had overachieved, I'd expect them to be up there." A reference to us perhaps???
Mike Stevenson, Reading  (28/08/05)

Sounds like Dithering Dave being far too honest during his transfer interview... Ed

State of Play
Lyndon's article is absolutelt right. The players signed to date (ignoring the possibility of van der Meyde) have all been defenders. Moyes has had all summer to address the issue of bringing players in, particularly a striker. From the names the club has been linked with, why did those deals not materialise? Was it all hype for or from the media? I suppose we will never find out.

To now be in the situation we are in 3 days from the deadline is stupid, the responsibility for being in this state must rest with David Moyes. I do not know for certain and must therefore speculate but presumably we could have had Baros, or Kuyt. Never mind the silly attempt at Owen, but why not McCarthy and Ashton? — for both it appears we are now to late. I don't think DM would recognise a striker even if he tripped over him.

Look at the Fulham game, again back to 4-5-1 with Bent upfront who is not a renowned striker so why does DM persist with this formula? A comment drawn from the match report may throw some light on this question. Quote " Apart from the first 10 minutes, it did not look as though we would lose." Isn't that somewhat negative, so all he thinks about is not losing, hence 4-5-1? Surely he should be thinking we would win. After they scored all panic for the last 15 minutes with 3 supposed strikers on, of which one was McFadden.

This game effectively sums up the summer; all panic and desperation at the last minute. Remember DM does not like the transfer window as he has to make up his mind quickly. Notice now being linked with a 30-year-old defender from Portugal who will no doubt be given a 4-year contract if he is signed and then becomes another millstone.

Will DM ever learn and wake up? I do not know...
Robert Jarvis, Burnley  (28/08/05)

We're not calling him Dithering Dave without good reason... Ed

Yes and No
Do defenders make good managers? Alex Ferguson was a striker, Arsene Wenger was a defender...
Jon Taylor, London  (28/08/05)

Thanks for that: there's an exception to every rule! — Ed

Mindless Rant
It must have been agony for the travelling fans to watch. Four strikers at the end and none could find the goal. The team has proved it's got no fire power; contracts are signed so its back to mediocre football.

Okay so they can put on a display worth talking about... for 15 minutes then the opposition catch wind that their repitoire is used up so they go for the kill. 17th is about right considering the results they got starting with the friendlies. Moyes had better get van der Meyde signed up quick — there's still a few tables left in the physio's room. His work is just as hard as Moyes.

This is very negative but that's how this bloody team gets me when they get beaten by crap opposition. any team not got three points yet can guarentee to get them against Everton.

Despite this rant Moyes is still the best man for the job
Mike Hayes, Wirral  (28/08/2005)

If I Owned Newcastle United FC.....
....and was regretting the appointment of the manager, what would I do? I reckon that I would look around for who I wanted and show him that he could get, at Newcastle, what he could not where he was now. Who do we know who was interested in Parker, Emre, Owen.................
Tony Horne, Kettering  (28/8/05)

Oooerrrr.....

Expected outcome
Although I did not observe the Fulham game the result was as expected. David Moyes has created a side that will seriously struggle to finish in the top half of the Premiership. This all goes back to the end of last season. Everton have declined considerably.

Out of the champions league, near the bottom of the premiership, negative goal difference, small squad, lack of players who can score goals... where are the improvements that were possible at the end of last season? Nothing succeeds like success,but where is it?

The word consistency comes to mind,I will make the following predictions.
1 Everton will not win the Uefa Cup
2 Everton will struggle to come in the top half of the table
3 No silverware

Back to normal, I am not optimistic with the present management and Board, seriously there is a fundamental problem at EFC: they are incapable of building on success, which is a requirement of any successful football club. EFC are on a downward spiral once more, just for a change.
Andrew Fairfoull, England  (28/08/05)

Jeez... You must a barrel of laughs at a picnic! So what's the forefit if any of your easy predictions are wrong? — Ed

Oh dear
Well, what can I say!! Just got back home from our wonderful capital, having watched our beloved Everton. Nearly 7 hours driving and £140 less in my pocket, I feel the time has come to forget about going away from home. Watching what I have seen was just not worth the effort or the expense. After going to home and away games for 9 years, I will just stick to the home games in future.

Everton played well enough, but still they are lacking any forward movement or even ideas. And as for Fulham, this team is only going one way and that's down. We should have beaten them, but we just never had the players to take them on and beat them. They are a very weak team and god help us if we cannot beat Fulham. I hope I feel better after a good nights sleep.

God when I awake, can we please buy a striker!!!! Come on you blues.
Jim , North Wales  ()

We huffed and we puff...
Well we huffed and we puffed and we still didn't score.. we are buying lots of midfielders when we need a striker. Come on Moyes, buy is a decent striker... I hear that good old Saviola isnt happy at Barca ;)..

We were all over them and couldn't score... Vaughan should have been on earlier... Anyway, deadline is the 31st right? I think that a new striker ain't going to happen :(
Stelly , Liverpool, UK  (27/08/05)

I am worried
...we have now lost 5 of our last 6 competitive games (the win against Bolton could easily have been a defeat because our one shot was enough to do it), scoring just 5 goals and conceding 17. Is this the progress we have apprently made?

Before the super-positive blues come onto the forum and criticise this post, just think about it. We played poorly against Bolton; against Villareal it was only the final 20 minutes when we looked good. Today we were decidedly poor again.

The dithering one and his partner in crime, Billy Bullshit are in danger of squandering (yet again) an opportunity to move forward. Why can neither see that we need a striker (and don't mention that he has been in for some because it just smacks of the Smith joke last year)?

If we had spent a few bob on a striker, a couple of decent midfielders (and Davies does not impress at the moment) and some decent defenders we would have beaten the Spaniards and be looking forward to big bucks in Europe. The club is run like a pub side and if we lose again then just think - that will be 6 out of 7 (Arsenal follow and we know what that will mean)!
Tom M, Wirral  (27/08/05)

Apparently, (to give Bill Kenwright some credit here), the fault lies with Dithering Dave, who has changed his mind on a significant number of deals. The money is available, but Moyes is not only ultra-cautious how he spends it; he really does vascilate when it comes to making the transfers — and we're talking about during the transfer process here, not before they decide to approach a player. — Ed

No Goals
No Striker!
No goals!
Here endeth the lesson.
Barry Johnson, Colwyn Bay  (27/08/05)

Nail... head. End of.

David Moyes?
Will this be deja vu back to the season before last when we hadn't got a clue. He has spent over £20M since January yet we still don't score; we only attack teams (if you can call it that) when behind. I think Moysie would make a good teacher with his skills but as a football coach, especially going foreward, he is clueless.

Four defeat's out of five already this season and the one victory was daylight robbery... I am getting worried. Kilbane in again say's it all to me: it's going to be a relegation fight I think and I don't mean to be negative but Moysie only knows how to play huff and puff soccer while all our opponents know how to now and can beat us at our own game.
Darren Findlay, Huddersfield  (27/08/05)

Here's a question: do defenders make good managers? I'm sure it's hard to generalize but our best managers (Catterick, Kendall, Royle) have been midfielders or attackers. I wonder if Davie's cautious defensive mindset is coming through in his management style? Of course, the opposite extreme would be Kevin Keegan.... ARRRGGGHH! — Ed

We've got our Contracts
Another fucking defeat and another woeful display. Contracts are signed, they've got nothing to play for now. 90 mins of shite. Never mind the Fulham hoodoo, they should all have their arses kicked then their balls, oh sorry they've got none!
Mike Hayes, Wirral  (27/08/2005)

I thought my Match Summary was pretty negative but you are being just plain silly, Mike. This was, after all the third away game inside seven days, and to imply they did not put any effort in is really crass in the extreme. The result was shite, but the football they tried to play was good at times. Please use our forum for this kind of mindless rant. Thank you! — Ed

Things looking bright
Champions League aside, I’m really looking forward to the rest of the season and the next couple of years. Great to see we're adding a couple of quality players this week and hopefully we can go win the Uefa Cup! All we need now is a prolific goalscorer - Tim Cahill up front?

I constantly try to stop myself expecting too much from Mr Moyes and remind myself of that season when I sat next to a Bolton fan at University surrounded by ManUre fans wanting us to go down. That was a terrible Everton side but we stayed up on goal difference. We really have come on a lot since then and have to give credit to Walter Smith and David Moyes plus a young lad who cost nothing but injected £26M into our club. Here’s to regular European football.
Daniel Parker, New York, US  (26/08/05)

Walter Smith? ... cough, splutter...
And it's £10M confirmed; £20M unconfirmed; £27M conditional. — Ed

Let's not worry, but....
Picked this out of DB's web site:

'...the Dinamo Bucharest fans, which make the Dinamo stadium most hostile place to play in Romania for visiting teams, threw lit torches in the middle of the few Cypriote fans in the stadium. 10 were transported to the hospital for severe burns. Dinamo has not been penalized or fined by UEFA, although, initially, UEFA officials considered declaring the match a 0-3 Dinamo forfeit due to the violence in the stands.'

This was in DB's last round game with Nicosia. Loved the bit at the end. I guess UEFA 'considered' for all of err... long enough to realise they're not an English club so that's alright then.... carry on DB. Just think you know how lately we have been up against 11 whingeing/playacting players and one overblown egotistical areshole with a whistle, well we now have to play and watch amongst these maniacs. After all they've got the green light from those bastards at Uefa haven't they. Let's hope it will only be lit torches, cos' if our fans even look in the direction of the idiots we all know who'll get the blame don't we!

The bottom line is that our club should get off their incompotent arses and insist rather a lot to UEFA that the tie is switched to a neutral ground or at DB's empty one. Come on Wyness let's see what your made of!!!

By the way wasn't the effort the boys put in magnificent against all the odds (more than we realised at the time in fact). Didn't play well, 1st goal poorly conceded (again) but never gave up and should have taken the game further. Still, mission accomplished by Uefa: we're out of the CL so the world's football pundits and media can rest easy now (they might even stop hating us too!)
Martin Kulkarni, Newcastle Upon Tyne  (26/08/05)

Give the man a break
Enough had been said about Everton's management, David Moyes and the Referee; we have to be contented with a Uefa Cup place. Take a look at our current squad; we can barely survive if we were to participate in EPL, CL, FA Cup & League Cup. We have to get more players in before the deadline; let's us concentrate on the league position and prove all the critics wrong again.
Andy Thomas, New Zealand  (26/08/05)

Moving right along...? Well, I think that's not so easy for some of us.... Ed

Collina & conspiracy theories
I watched the game on ITV2 & I'm sure Collina blew his whistle & pointed to the half-way line when Duncan scored. He didn't see anything. He blew for a goal then changed his mind.

On a more positive note, I know like most people do, if the goal had stood then we would have gone on & won it. Maybe that's why it didn't.

Also on the conspiracy theory side, no-one's mentioned that Villarreal have just spent money upgrading their stadium to meet the requirements for Champions League football - someone had to make sure it would be used didn't they?

I was pleased to see that at least there were enough chances created to win the game though. OK so they weren't taken but at least they were there which for a long time with EFC was something that wasn't happening anyway irrespective of striker quality etc. and no I wouldn't rather make chances & lose (here & Man U) rather than make one chance & win (Bolton).

What's happened to tiny Tim? - is that the third time he's headed one of those straight to the keeper - one last night & two in the Man U game - come on Tim some more practice for you!.

Overall, we were robbed & everyone knows it.
Billy Flynn, Camberley  (25/08/05)

Feel Good Friday
After the dissapointment of Wednesday, I do feel a sense of optimism about the Everton future and what tomorrow might bring on the signings front. There are the following names who are the players that cause me to constantly turn the air blue when I am watching Everton - Pistone, Hibbert, Kilbane, Bent. Great professionals but frustrating in as much as their lack of skill always breaks down our fluency in the game. So with AvdM for Kilbane, Ferrari for Pistone and (fingers crossed) a quality striker for Bent, watching Everton should become slightly less painful!
Paul Coleman, Kettering  (25/08/05)

Don't let the bastards grind you down
Obviously last night was devastating but I felt strangely becalmed at the final whistle. Over the two legs we were beaten by a slightly better team but if Villarreal can, over a number of years of patient team-building achieve what they have, so can we. We just have to keep the faith and that's coming from someone who has been as frustrated as anybody at our Board's actions.

Hopefully Van der Meyde and Ferrari will strengthen us in our two weakest positions: left back and left midfield. Add a class striker before the deadline and I think we have a good season to look forward to.

What does upset me is the attitude of some media people towards the club. Alan Green's recent rant was typically poisonous of a man who I know for a fact attends Liverpool games as a paying customer with his son. Did anyone else though notice Harry Harris's comments this morning in the Express? He claimed that Everton's declared interest in Michael Owen was less than Newcastle's. Aren't Newcastle without a goal or a win this season? not to mention no European football? He also proclaimed that we '..won't last long in the Uefa Cup either' after exiting the Champions League. Where does this all come from? It's almost as bad as having to watch that other kopite Matt Smith on ITV failing to keep the smirk off his face as we lost the game last night.

Just remember this. One Evertonian is worth a thousand Alan Greens.
Gareth Hughes, Liverpool  (25/8/05)

"He claimed that Everton's declared interest in Michael Owen than Newcastle's" and I added the less than... but I'm not really sure what you weresaying there, Gareth — Ed

Fulham Game
Anybody know best place to park near Craven Cottage and roughly how long to expect the journey to be?
Tates 1878, Little Sutton  (25/08/05)

Re; Great night
Dear Ed, I am 70 years old and believe me, they were a great set of Boobs and at my age you don't get to see them very offen. So sorry I don't agree with you :-) Keep up the good work on the site, I think it is great :-)
Fred , Bootle  (8/25/05)

I shall refrain from further comment! — Ed

What was Moysey wearing?!?
What a night, we did ourselves proud. I know at times like this its hard to see any positives from last night - but David Moyse's navy blue jacket and tan slacks combination was inspired! Absolute genious. I hope it gets another outing on our next away European jaunt.
Ian Turgoose, Sheffield  (25/08/05)

Uefa Cup
Anyone know how the Uefa Cup draw works with regards to seeding etc? There are a couple of tasty teams in there but also a lot of minnows. Its vital we get through to the group stage at least.

Come on Rhyl FC!!
Mike Stevenson, Reading  (25/08/05)

Everton are seeded. The 80 teams in the First Round draw are split into 8 groups of 10: 5 seeded, 5 un-seeded, presumably to keep teams from the same association apart. More details on our Europe page.

A Question of numbers
Choose a referee who is above criticism, suggest that five English teams and two Spanish is not in the best interests of the competition and the die is cast.

If a ref wants to disallow a goal on the basis that he saw some shoving then a corner kick is ideal. On that basis no goal from a corner would ever stand. The fact is that Everton were never going to qualify as the fifth team from the moment Liverpool overcame CSK.

The only person in that entire stadium who saw a foul was the man in black. Everton were cheated by the powers that be in Uefa. It is a disgrace to the game of football that it should have been allowed to happen.
Cliff Maylor, Lymm  (25/08/05)

Rob Fox and The Game
That is a hell of a good article by Rob Fox and I find myself agreeing with his appraisal of EFC. What we have got is what we have got and have to live with. There is no Roman coming near Goodison or any other moneybags, I think that is clear. We need more than a paltry £25M that Fortress were talking of.

It is not just a question of the team, the Board or the Manager; fundamentally, we need a new stadium. This is where fans are at odds but this is the truth, we need a stadium which can accommodate up to 60,000 and not the current capacity of Goodison. Goodison cannot realisticaly be renovated to significantly increase the capacity because it is landlocked. Rob's analysis is spot on and should be required reading for all Everton fans.

The game, well we lost out but not neccessarily to a better team. Everton gave as good as they got and more. It was Villarreal who were crapping in their pants until the referee stepped in. The goal was good but disallowed, it does not now matter why. It was disallowed and that is that. It would not have won the game, but might have got us into extra time. That does not mean we would have won, we could still have lost or gone to penalties. The fact is why was it left to the last 25 minutes to put pressure on the Spaniards. The team should have gone after them from the off, their goal was unfortunate and unlucky for us, but these things happen as do disallowed goals.

The tactics for a change seemed to be a loose 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1. Kilbane in my mind should never have been on at full back, and this showed through his rash tackling which forced a substitution but Moyes will stick by players like him rather than give others a chance from the off. Kilbane is not good enough, full stop. I also question bringing on McFadden, another player who has not produced, why wasn't Vaughan given a chance? What had we to lose, we needed to get into Villarreal and his youth, keenness and pace may have just done the trick. We will never know, but I do wish Moyes would leave out Kilbane and McFadden. Also the sooner Kroldrup is fit the better.

It is really bad luck on us that we had so many players injured, something we managed to escape last season. Anyway, we are in the Uefa Cup so all is not lost; we need to do well in this to build up our European rating, perhaps even win it. Why not, are we not allowed to aspire to that? Look forward.
Robert Jarvis, Burnley  (23/08/05)

Proud but Disgusted....!!
CHEATED!!!!...no more, no less. The Champions League no longer has any credibility for me. What with last-minute rule changes to accomodate a team who didn't qualify, favourable draw to same team as they didn't want to travel too far too early in pre-season, and now the most outrageous refereeing decision you'll ever see. The competition is a G14 clique and outsiders (ie, Everton FC) are neither welcome nor wanted...

Best referee in the world my arse!! In Uefa's pocket more like!! They didn't want us in it and he made sure we went out!! Well done blues, you had a go and nearly made it... but you can never win if the dice are loaded against you!!.
Neil  Vaughan, Wirral  (25/08/05)

Killa the Season
And so... having the worst fullbacks in the country has come back to haunt us already.

The Italian sicknote has been seen already at a cashpoint on Monday, poised for a lengthy spell out and a sunshine recouperation break.

Mr Naysmith is not missed, as he is possibly the worst current left-back in top-flight football.

Mr Hibbert is only getting by as he is a local lad, not only can he not pass water, he can't even cross his own legs, and is continually raped by any reasonable wide-man(please learn how to cross a ball in training).

If the Champions League showed us anything it is why Mr Kilbane was the target for the boo-boys at Sunderland. Two good months at Everton since he has done his best Alistair McGowan impression of a bad footballer.

If Mr Moyes cannot bring in even Bosman players better than these stooges, hold on tight it will be a bumpy ride. However folks, you can't say these problems were not evident last season. Knee jerk reaction? I think not.
Bobby Dempster , Huyton  (25/08/05)

Nationality
Did "Mekon" Colina apply for Spanish citizenship before or after the match? He's a bloody disgrace.
Tony Waring, Frogmore, Devon  (25/08/05)

The Complete And Unabridged Uefa Investigation
IMPORTANT FAT MAN 1: I hear there was a surprising refereeing contribution in Spain last night.

IMPORTANT FAT MAN 2: Yes Indeed. Still the English League has it's 4 representatives in the group stages. That is, after all, all they are entitled to.

IMPORTANT FAT MAN 1: Ah, I see. By the way the usual, er, "hospitality" has been arranged for after the draw in Monaco tonight.

IMPORTANT FAT MAN 2 : Excellent!
Tony Horne, Kettering  (25.8.05)

Collina
I don't know if enough people will be interested, but the "best referee in the world" (TM) has got his own website. It only has a contact section, but that's all I imagine us Evertonians would want to use anyway. Let him have it!
Robert Turner, Runcorn  (25/08/05)

Load of bollocks
Yet again Everton played good football but without the investment we are never going to be a School of Science for a long time. The players huffed and puffed and Kilbane had a mare, Collina was shite on several occasions but rather than the predicted complete outclass job the team played as best they could. Bent was rarely going to score and Ferguson was hard working but a one-trick pony.

Only trouble is Everton knew the two most important games in the club's history were coming up three months ago, they claim to bid £10M for a half decent striker nearly a month ago and that Welsh midget too (hope he was watching another nail in Souness's coffin tonight).

Without the investment in players we were goosed; a left-back that we needed last season didn't happen and may happen now if rumours be true, excuse the cynicism but isn't it a bit late? Claims of bids for quality strikers, (although smacking of the last few years Shearer and Alan Smith bids), even if true, isn't it a bit late?

I'm not the doom-and-gloom, relegation-fodder merchant; I'm just another season-ticket, kit- and merchandise-buying mug that can see Everton have squandered the opportunity to push on and grasp the holy grail of Group Stage cash, and to see Kenwrong getting all luvvie darlings with the Villarreal head honcho just smacks of a lying turd living his own fantasy Championship Manager dream.

The fans knew we were never going to win the ECL but at least have a half-decent run and get a slice of cash to replace all of Kenwrong's bullshit Russian and Fortress Sporta Fund bollocks and maybe ease off his pet lapdog Wyness stuffing the loyal fans for more cash in place of decent competition money.

Onwards to the Uefa Cup and hopefully a decent league run; thanks Kenwrong and your fellow bullshitters for fucking up a real opportunity.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (25/08/05)

Great Night.
I am really upset that we lost, I watched the match on Itv2 and apart from a wonderful free kick by Arteta and the young lady who got her boobs out, for the television, there was not much else to shout about. The lads tried thier best, so good for them and I do hope they show the replay of the BOOBS, that made my night. Well done that girl and she was a Blue.
Fred , Bootle  (8/24/05)

I dunno... she looked a little on the podgy side to me... and there was definitely a problem with sagging! — Ed

Reality Check
As predicted, Everton are out of the Champions League. What was the point of finishing in fourth place? If you carefully examine the number of goals scored in the last few months you will find you can count them on one hand; this also applies to shots on and off target. Surprise, surprise we have started the season with another negative goal difference just for a change.

Everton have had since the end of last season to improve their striking possibilities and have done absolutely nothing about acquiring players who actually score goals. Financially and in terms of status and reputation Everton have failed miserably. Why? Because they have not created a squad capable of progressing in the Champions League. A glorious opportunity missed because of poor management and lack of future planning.

The idea of football is that to win the game you put the ball in the back of the net. Everton have proved that this is not on their agenda so far, until they address this basic problem I do not see any further improvement in the future. Goal scorers desperately needed!
Andrew Fairfoull, England  (25/08/05)

I understand that it really is not for want of trying. It seems to me the Beattie experience has had a drastic impact on the conviction of our manager when looking at new players. He doesn't want to repeat that mistake, which is preventing him from being more decisive in the transfer market. It's sad beacause, as a result, most of what you say is hard to deny. — Ed

I still had my bubbley!!
I feel we were robbed last night. The lads did their best and the best ref in the buisness should retire NOW! Roll on Fulham and another three points....
Jim , N Wales  (8/23/05)

Heads high, no sign of tail between legs
I've just come back from the pub. Switched on teletext for' neutral' views on the match. Extremely under-whelmed by the headlines of BBC and ITV.

Never mind. Everyone hates us. We dont care. We should have had two tonight and that would have got us extra time at least. But the best team won - let's be honest.

The Uefa Cup beckons and we can go into it with confidence and the sting of injustice to motivate us. How does the song go? We're all going on a European tour, a European tour, a European tour....
Tom Johnson, UK  (25/08/05)

RIP Football
Oh well, the final nail in the coffin, the relationship between football and fair play is dead... Mr Collina ("I'm the best referee in the world and therefore above suspicion...") has confirmed my worst fears but not suprised me: Uefa never wanted five English teams through and, by hook or by crook, have got their wish. Money has talked loud and clear.

I don't think I've seen a worse display of refereeing in my years (Uriah Rennie included) and the farce that was the disallowed goal was beyond belief. I am past annoyed and in a state of absolute bewilderment; I know we didn't play particularly well, but when was that in the rules of the game? We scored a perfectly good goal!!!

I have played football since I could walk and the rules and spirit of the game have been the backbone of my upbringing - play hard, play fair and shake hands when the whistle blows - call me naive, but I hoped some of that remained (I'd rather be naive than a cheating fat twat at Uefa who has never seen anything as round as a football unless it was covered in cream).

Following the sponsor/media-led outcry for a 'popular' team to be allowed in against the rules and now this blatant effort to remove Everton - pit them against the best team (not Liverpool, because that would have been obvious) - I am wondering, why bother with this type of sycophantic, jobs for the boys 'football'?

I've got a mate who's a founder member of FC United; maybe if every club started again we could take football back to the people who care and fund it! I am fuming, upset and angry; yet again we have been robbed and fucked over - when will it end?

I'd love to think of something positive to end of, but words fail me... oh, Martyn for England?!!
Andy Norbury, Chester  (24/08/05)

Collina's nightmare
Nothing will ever convince me that there wasn't a hidden agenda in the refereeing of tonight's match. I normally dont critisize referees but Collina tonight blew away all the fine performances he has put in over the years. Maybe being his swansong year he decided to take the pieces of silver.... Hard on you the blues!!
Eddy Gibbs, brecon  (24/08/05)

Twat & a Half
Bye Bye Colina. You are finished as an international referee after tonight's show. Falling for every dive in the book (but not yours) and then disallowing Ferguson's header - you are one useless twat (and a half). Go and buy yourself a wig so that no one will recognise the man who cost EFC a run in the Champions League. Let's hope that this moron does not referee any games in the UEFA Cup. Mike.
Mike Keating, City Centre  (24/08/05)

£15 million lost? Why?
So, in order to save money, we had to make do with useless strikers like Bent that have just cost the club £15M. Everton were crap except for Martyn & a valliant effort by the ageing Ferguson. OK, so for the last 20 minutes they did try & were robbed by that OAP referee. Overall, Everton don't deserve to be in the ECL. If the manager & Board can't invest money to make money then there is no hope for the club. On a final note, Arteta's goal was brilliant.
Barry  Johnson, Colwyn Bay  (24/08/05)

Come on you Blue Boys
Got my shirt on and my can of beer at the ready, just wanted to wish the boys luck. I have a feeling it is going to be our night and I have the Bubbly on ice!! Come on you Blue boys! All the best.
Jim , N Wales  (23/8/05)

Lyth for Manager
I have read this mailbag for quite a while and must say that Steve Lyth is one of the few who talk sense. Get rid of the ginger one and make him manager I say (and I am not being sarcastic - I am fed up of the bullshitter and the dithering one).
Tom M, Wirral  (24/08/05)

Well, I'm sure you will command the enthusiastic support of at least one other reader.— Ed

Barbosa: Toffees are 'animals'
Shocking that Barbosa can get away with this quote. Can't we all get a petition together and get an apology from him. We shall have the last laugh when we win 2-0 on the night.
Kev BVyrne, Liverpool  (28/08/05)

Sticks and stones...

Optimism Amongst So Many Negative Vibes
I know us Evertonians in general are renowned for our negative thoughts but I for one refuse to continue the trend.

After many years of struggle and relegation battles which aged us all by about 10 years on average it is simply a joy to behold our current status. Facts cannot lie and those facts are that, after selling our two most prized assets last season, we went on through honest toil, hard work & second-to-none dedication to mix amongst the elite when our name was proudly printed on one of those Champions League Balls for the 3rd Qualifying Round draw. Maybe we will even take further steps tonight towards the Champions League Group Stages or maybe not. But either way please join me is saying how proud you are of Mr Moyes and our Squad of players.

If we do not make it this evening we will still be in Friday's Uefa Cup draw which is a considerable success story in itself. Especially after many so-called experts tipped us to be playing Championship football this season.

I respect your views on transfers and what may or may not be going on behind the scenes to secure the services of certain players. But I genuinely believe and trust in Mr Moyes' credentials and prudence in such matters. He and Mr Kenwright will simply not allow us to become another Leeds United. Their predicament in recent years has taught a few clubs a very important lesson: Do not aim above your means, or pay the penalty! Plus, after tasting difficult times in the mid- to late-eighties onwards "Re: Losing Mr Kendall and most of his wonderful squad of players" we never want to taste that bitter pill ever again.

Please try to remain optimistic, there's simply no need for so much negativety; Mr Green alone can supply as much as that as is necessary.
Stephen Maclean, Birkenhead  (24/08/05)

New Players
I suspect Moyes and the Board are being truthful about the bids for Owen etc. However I think our problem is that players of this calibre (or claimed calibre ) do not see Everton as a good career move ... yet. We have still got to get a few more seasons in the top half to get to the position where we attract big names.

Whilst we can see changes in the performances under Moyes, the rest of the footballing world are not yet convinced. They may be blind but that appears to be the reality. I think the list of players who haven't signed over the summer shows this. It will take a while longer and I expect the kind of players we can attract will be more in the £3M - £6M bracket.
Ged Simpson, Chester  (24/08/05)

Calling you gullible
Ed, in response to your comments re: my post on transfers, I feel that I must try to put the record straight. I wasn't, as you state, calling David Moyes a liar, I was in fact questioning the continuous spin and bullshit coming out of Goodison. In the words of former Prime Minister Benjamin Disraelli, I would best describe Bill Kenwright as "a sophistical rhetoric inebriated with the exuberance of his own verbosity. Gifted with an egotistical imagination that at all times commands an interminable and inconsistent series of arguments, to malign an opponent and to glorify himself." If you believe otherwise, then maybe you are gullible or stupid, or perhaps even both.
Paul  Christian, Liverpool  (24.8.05)

Hehe... nice quote! — Ed

Get stuffed!!
What is so special about Newcastle that everyone turns us down and wants to go there? Now Michael Owen says if Liverpool don't want him he will go to Newcastle on a year's loan basis. He turns us down, his supposedly boyhood team, to go there. He always did strike me as boring and gutless and he obviously hasn't got the guts to sign for us and take the flack from the Liverpool supporters.

More than likely it's the wage syndrome again. Newcastle seem to have a bottomless pit where wages are concerned for players they poach from us. Who needs the type of player who is only interested, at the end of the day, in his wage packet. As far as I am concerned, they can get stuffed. We dared to call Franny Jeffers "one greedy bastard" on his return to Goodison... it would appear there are many!!
Patricia Beesley, Carmarthen  (24. 98. 05)

Chief Scout
Who is Everton`s chief or head scout? Have we actually got a head scout and a scouting system. I keep getting told we have neither and that Davy Moyes does it himself. Can this be true?
Charlie Tannett, Liverpool  (24/08/05)

Transfer Misdealings
Without wanting to state the obvious it's still all about tonight. While many Evertonians are frustrated about lack of movement in the transfer market (me included), we have to remind ourselves that tonight will dictate who we will get in. It's frustrating but its economic sense, to wait to see how tonight goes, before we splash the cash. I am also sure that the players we are interested in are also waiting to see what competition they will be playing in and, on their agent's part, how much cash they can milk from us. I think we have to wait this one out. And once we get through... hello, little Mickey... and, er, welcome big Dick.
Ben Cook, London  (24/08/05)

Whose idea was it to bid for Owen?
Whose even better idea was it to announce to the world that we didn't manage it - nor did we manage to sign Kuyt? It really makes no sense whatsoever. A line from DM sums it up for me: "I am trying to reassure fans I am in for most of the big names". I am a big fan of DM and this big club, but dreaming that Owen would take a pay cut of over 50% to come to the blue side of Merseyside? Not in this reality, methinks.

Forget about pleasing the fans with ridiculous bids... instead actually do what everyone wants: strenghten the squad with realistic targets. I thought this was supposed to be a long-term process Davie?

This was another PR disaster for the club (seems to be becoming a habit recently). Don't get me wrong - Alan Green's 'piece of shit' in the Examiner also sickened me. But somewhere along the route we must be realistic about who should be playing for us.

As well as that be honest... Smith last year - this year Owen - next year maybe Stevie G. & Essien ? We need to dream as human beings, as football fans, but as Everton fans we need to be told the truth and for the club to do what they must do to win games. 'Raising expectations' heard this one before? Great job David - you've achieved this. Where to from here? Investment? One game at a time? Long term? Survival? I'm right behind you Davie whatever you do. I just hope the rest of the heavyweights and loudmouths at the club are with you. I am a happy Evertonian as long as DM is at the helm, but it seems an honest assessment of where we are and where we're going is needed at EFC HQ.

End of rant. Work to do.Enjoy the ride in Europe.
Kevin O' Regan, Munich, Germany  (24/08/05)

Evertonians are great. They moan like buggery because the Club doesn't tell them every little deetail about every transfer and every pound... Then Moyes says this and everybody jumps down his throat and accuses him and the club of lying??? GET A GRIP! — Ed

Blueboys??
Boy we would have cracking team, one we could all be proud of, if all those players who have professed to be boyhood toffees were to put that into action. It just shows talk is cheap.
Eddy Gibbs, Brecon  (23/08/05)

Uh? Are you referring to Mr Owen??? I think there might be just a little bit more to it than that...Ed

Actions Speak Louder Than Spin
How comforting it is to learn from David Moyes that Everton have been busy once agin being turned down by top players. So we have been turned down by Michael Owen. No surprise there but more alarmingly it is reported Feynoord have rejected £10M for Dick Kuyt. Do they want to start a bidding war or maybe Dick wants to await the result on Wednesday night?

Whatever the case this alleged offer was made on August 1st. So what has happened since then about alternate targets? If we are willing to spend £10m on one player I think each fan could come up with a few more appealing targets. I suspect this PR rouse is exactly the same as last year. Remember the reputed and ultimately unsuccessful £7M bid for Alan Smith. Let's face it there was no way he was ever coming to Everton and I reckon it is the same with Owen and Kuyt. Keep the fans happy by claiming that we have been competing for the top players. If we're unsuccessful at least they we can claim and they can see we were trying.

Try being realistic would be better or at least try being honest with the fans. What's happenend to van der Meyde? Why didn’t we follow up the deadline day attempt last August to sign Benni McCarthy? What’s wrong with Dean Ashton as a realistic alternative to Dick Kuyt?

By the end of next week, when all we have signed is superstar Preston reserve Dickson Etuhu, no doubt it will be another lamentable tale of how we missed out on the big names. "It’s not our fault," Bill and Dave will say in unison. The faithful fans will be told the club have the money but the deals just could not be done in time. A few more superstar names we failed to sign on deadline day will be mentioned in dispatches to tantalise the fans and keep them interested until January and then the process will be repeated to keep them dangling until next summer when David Moyes will be spending all summer attempting to sign the best on offer at Germany 2006.

Hollow words will not suffice this season as we have seen through the scam. Let's cut out the spin and leave that to the politicians. If there is no money, tell us. If the only realistic signing is Etuhu then tell us. But please credit the average fan with the intelligence to see through the false prophecy being spouted through media currently.

I also learn we may be after another left back due to present injury crisis. We could not find a decent left-back to replace Pistone in all of June and July so where is the logic that states we will find one in seven days. Maybe there lurks another unpolished diamond in Preston's reserve side?
Peter Rea, Bangor, Co Down  (23/08/05)

Wow! Another one who knows he's being bullshitted! I really do feel stooppid now....

But step back from your cynicism for a moment and consider that the examples you cite are merely a continuation of what we feared earlier: Moyes's dithering. I really believe this is the problem. He's such a perfectionist, and the transfer business is such a huge risk (eg, Richard Wright), I think he really can't close the deal coz he keeps changing his mind. — Ed

Transfers
Just heard on Radio 2 Sports Report that David Moyes has re-assured Evertonians that he is trying to bring the best players to Goodison. He has apparantly tried to sign both Michael Owen and Dirk Kuyt from Feyenoord, but both have turned us down. What a load of bollocks. Is this ANOTHER one of Kenwright's smoke screens? I think so. Stop pulling the wool over our eyes Bill, we ain't falling for it anymore. Dickson Etuhu? Now that's more like it.
Paul Christian, Liverpool  (23/8/05)

So David Moyes is blatantly lying? And you call yourself a Christian? I am mortified! I don't think Moyes is a liar. And I don't believe this is some dastardly scheme from Kenwright. Call me gulible if you like, but why can't it actually be true??? — Ed

Cl or UEFA?
Although we need to win tonight by 2 clear goals, Moyes will come out with 4-5-1 formation. He will be hoping to stop the Spaniards scoring and trying to grab a couple of breakaways á la Reebock. Which was a very fortunate 3 points... we cannot expect the same result using 4-5-1 against other teams out there.

I notice a few people (including Lyndon) are coming out and saying Vaughan should be playing. I said this umpteen mailbags ago and was shot down because it was felt he was too young. Moyes seems to dislike giving youngsters a chance. Before Rooney left, Moyes persisted in using him as a sub, which just goes to show his level of judgement and the same will happen with Vaughan. What is wrong with Baros, Villa have agreed a fee why couldn't we? Moyes probably felt LFC were asking too much, but there comes a time when you have to go for it and stop standing around cutting off your nose to spite your face. I doubt if there will be any more new faces in before the window closes, Moyes is being made to use what he has got, whether this is down to him or the board we will never know. Enough said about transfers and tactics and whether Dave is a ditherer or not. Lets save our criticism for Billy Liar, Woeful Wyness and I can't remember their names now as they having been keeping their heads where the sun doesn't shine.
Robert Jarvis, Burnley  (23/08/05)

It's a tough one... Someone raised the example of Colin Harvey, thrust into the heat of the San Siro for his debut. No damage done there, eh?

Well, his next appearance did not come for another six months! He made only two more appearances that entire season!! And he did not become an Everton regular until a full year after his debut!!!

Damned if you do... Damned if you don't. I ask ya... who'd be a footy manager? — Ed

Stubbs
The Alan Stubbs row with Everton that's blown up over the last few days is symptomatic of the really poor management decision-making at Goodison.

I actually sympathise more with the Everton side of story than Stubbs's and I think its a bit of sour grapes on his part but the fact that a life-long blue (who took a pay cut to come here) is sniping at the club just shows how bad we are at people management / public relations.

What does this say to potential players considering the club about how they will be treated?

What would have been the worst-case scenario anyway? If say (God forbid) his cancer returned in 12 month's time we would have had to honour the last year of his contract had the clause not been inserted (assuming a 2-year deal). What's the big deal really when you think we would have been helping out a cancer stricken Evertonian? Let's face it, we paid Dunc's wages in Barlinnie jail... Why not have paid Stubby's in hospital?
Tom Johnson, London  (22/08/05)

The whole business is very strange and I can't help wondering about the role Paul Stretford (Stubbs's agent) had in all of this. Why would Stubbsy spout off to The Guardian in the first instance? Why did he not agree to a check-up with the quack? Did Stretford mess him around? And get ank Cats? Who said Football's Fooked? I agree with you that it's hard to slam EFC on this; seems Stubbsy (or more likely his slimeball agent) is the real bête noir in this shoddy and unfortunate business.... Ed

South Manchester / North Cheshire
I'm looking to get in touch with fellow Bluenoses who live in South Manchester / North Cheshire in order to go to home & away games. All my mates are Man Utd, Liverpool or Bolton fans! I've checked out the Supporters Clubs page but none seem relevant to my location. Can you help?
Nick Palmer, Altrincham  (22/8/05)

Ever the optimist
Here we are on the brink of Everton's biggest game in 20 years and we do not look to have a prayer. We had to play that way at Bolton on Sunday but to be fair to Moyes he has done a job. We will not play like that in Spain; we do not have too.

The biggest problem is the threadbare squad and the lack of talent. In the past we always had players who could rise to the occassion. On this occassion it does not look promising. I for one am hoping that our underdog status continues. If not, so be it, Football's Fooked anyway!

Whatever the result, hopefully the Everton Board will learn about having a squad big enough to compete on the European stage. The media once again have savaged EFC, this time over our futile attempts to sign really talented players.

It's lower-league shopping for us;, give me scousers who are Evertonians thru and thru and I give you David Nugent and Michael Ball. Let's get some people who want to play for the club, like Tim and Nige. I had a dream last night that we beat Villa 5-2 away, Osman got a hattrick and young Vaughy got the other two, ever the optimist.
Steve Lyth, Ellesmere Port  (23/08/05)

The Vaughan Miracle
Quite simple really. The boring shite that won on Sunday will not score two goals against Villareal (Prove me wrong). The answer is James Vaughan starting up front with Beattie (if fit) or Ferguson.

The boy is bright and energetic and will lift the whole team, giving us the added edge to claim a famous victory in Spain. Anyone who says we shouldn't rest all our hopes on a 17-year-old... well, tell that to Vaughan. Right now, we need a bright new spark and he is sitting on the bench every matchday.
Paul Coleman, Kettering  (22/08/05)

You know what, Paul? I actually agree with you. A 17-year-old with pace and raw, youthful exuberance is going to be a whole lot more effective than aimless long balls to either Beattie or Ferguson — Lyndon

Never after Wednesday
After the game on Wednesday I will never watch Everton again, until Kenwrong and his cronies leave my club. The fiasco of the ticket sales and notice of travel for the Villarreal tie has finally pushed me over the limit. My nephew queued for SEVEN hours only to be told that some of his vouchers were not acceptable, the guy behind him had season 2001 away vouchers.

After complaining to the ticket office they called me back and said come on down you can have a ticket. On arriving at the ticket office no-one would admit to telling me to come down, so no ticket. Apparently they believe in the advert "new customers only". On leaving Goodison and getting home those wonderful admin staff at EFC announce that tickets will go on sale without vouchers the next day.

Well Everton you have finally pushed me too far. My season ticket is going back and they will not get another penny from me while the arseholes who run this great club at the moment remain.

Believe me, eventually they will force Moyes out, and yes to all those who posted the club are laughing at us. KENWRIGHT, GO NOW. YOU ARE USELESS.
Steve Sweeney, Prescot  (22/08/05)

I said 1-0 and they did
Well I did say 1-0 to the Blues, but I could not have named the scorer of the goal. I stood and watched the match and looked at the Everton defensive display, which was outstanding BUT up-front we lacked sooooo much. Half the time I think we had no idea that we were to go forward and try and score a goal!! But give the lads thier due, they did well to get the result and we now have three points on the board, so that is a start. But still we need a striker, PLEASE! Could other blue noses stop going on about players and slagging them off, they are doing the best they can, even if we want more!!
Jim , North Wales  (22/8/05)

Like Mr Green
Now that we are on the topic of anti-Everton bigotry, take a look at this delightful comment from my Bolton supporting friend... Remember a Bolton supporter!

"Everton are the worst side ever to pull on boots. Last night was the most atrocious display of football ever to garner a single point. The true miracle of merseyside last year seems like it is rolling on into this season and the sooner we see the luck run out and this bunch of hacks sent down to the lower leagues where they belong the better."
Alex Kakafikas, Melbourne  (23/07/2005)

I can't believe that you as an Evertonian would lower yourself to consort with such an imbecile. — Ed

Width
I disagree with comments about out seeming lack of width. On the contrary, I think we rarely, if ever, go through the middle. How many defence-splitting passes which have led to a goal can anyone remember in the last couple of years?

We are obsessed with throwing crosses in from the flanks, usually from Tony Hibbert and, as this is not his best attribute, limits our threat. The best teams in England play through the middle more often than not and are not interested in fiddling about, running into dead ends by the corner flags.
Paul  Burns, Liverpool  (22/08/05)

I think it is more a reflection of the players we've got (or haven't got) and how to get the best out of them. Both Ferguson and Cahill would benefit from square balls towards goal. Whereas we only have Arteta who can play that kind of pass through the middle (and he was poor on Sunday). — Ed

Commentary Cock-up
Re your mail item, Richard Jones, Hemel H (21/08/05):

Sorry Mate, that was no cock-up. You must be a bit young! Basil is a nickname, in 'honour' of an old actor by the name of Basil Rathbone.
Sherlock Holmes, Indeed  (22/08/05)

Inventiveness
Well, we may have got the three points - with a well-taken goal - but where oh where is that spark of innovation? We hardly put together more than two passes at a time. That's no way to win anything unless you are very lucky every match. Defence looked pretty solid but we definitely need a playmaker. On the other hand Chelsea and Arsenal served up quite a high proportion of crap and one presumes Drogba will be up before the FA for his actions against his own fans.
Tony Waring, Frogmore, Devon  (22/08/05)

Wasn't that game awful? I turned it on expecting a footballing spectacle. Shows us just what the Premiership has become. — Ed

Joseph Yobo
Just saw the game last night on Fox here in Australia. I have to say we have one top player in Joseph Yobo. By the 70 minute mark I had lost count of how many times he had covered for Weir and Hibbert. Also, wasn't he the one who sent up the original ball to Cahill (who then set up Bent)?

This is not to take anything from the rest of the team, who seem to keep defying the odds. And Neville was the only newsigning who actually played yesterday; this makes the win even sweeter...

ps. I saw the game against Man Utd too; even though Yobo made that big mistake, I thought his defending was pretty solid.
Bsd Lover, Sydney, Australia  (22/08/05)

Pistone
Three games into the season and from game one, people are booing Pistone, why? By the way I've just watched Phil Neville at left-back, when sandro went off; all I can say is keep him as a holding player in the middle. We all know the left side of the pitch is a problem in English football and considering we finished fourth with the man at left back, who is better? Ashley Cole, Gareth Barry? No? Somebody tell me. Give him a chance, the season's three games old and you're slagging players. DISGRACE
Colin Malone, Wirral  (22/08/05)

I thought it was at Goodison he was booed? At Bolton, it was surely the pig-ignorant Trotter fans who were booing him for perceived time-wasting, play-attacking, and general continental fannying about. The poor sod's now got a twisted knee... Ed

Commentary Cock-up
Just been catching the highlights of the win against Bolton on MOTD2. Was it just me or did the commentator refer to Mick Rathbone as Basil? Must a secret Blue Nose!
Richard Jones, Hemel H  (21/08/05)

Taxi for Green !!
Oh for a bit more smash and grab on Wednesday night!! Keep that rock-solid defence going and a couple of counter strikes like Benty's today and it's CL for us!!
Steve G, Harrogate  (21/08/05)

Important win
Today was not pleasant on the eye but I can live with that; great defensive peformance by the lads. We do need some more players though. Last season we were lucky with injuries and we have the same number of players this season. Bearing in mind Europe is upon us we need three or four new faces. I just hope Mr Moyes and Mr Kenwrong are aware of this. By the way Yobo, Weir and Martyn were fantastic today.
Darren Findlay, Huddersfield  (21/08/05)

What if there's no money left? It all hangs on Wednesday's result... Ed

Put that in your pipe and smoke it Mr Green!!
1-0 to Everton, now that's normal service resumed. Take that, you fat bitter fool! I hope he lays into us again, there seems to be no better motivational tool then the media writing us off. Now to dream of a victory against Villarreal, that'll certainly settle any doubts that Everton are on the up!!
Ian Taylor, Stockholm  (21/8/05)

Yes, up and up. Seven places to be exact. Enjoy it, as I doubt if you will witness such a massive rise up the Prem for us again this season. — Ed

In desperate need of striker and defender
Just watched the match; not amazing... but a win nevertheless. I think next week it is now essential that we go out and buy a striker and a left back as otherwise our small squad will be very stretched. We need a good left-back anyway as Pistone looked nothing short of awful before he went off. Surely there's someone out there who can come in. Just like to hear anyone views on this?
Alan Atherton, Liverpool  (210805)

Nah... rubbish. We scored... We won!!! End of. — Ed

Green Schmeen..........
Top marks to Mr. Appleyard's analysis of Mr Green's professional opinion (and they say we are bitter).

I am not sure if this is correct but I seem to remember we suffered from the predictive media attitude when we went into the 1995 FA Cup Semi-Final and the Final; look how they turned out and we didn't wear stupid suits for the Final. I am sure we have been the subject of numerous vitriolic statements since. However, I say this to all commentators, pundits, experts (ha), etc. KNOCK THE BLUES AT YOUR PERIL!!!! TAKE A SWIPE IF IT KEEPS YOU IN A JOB - WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED.

I have supported Everton for a long time and, like most fans, seen the highs and the lows....but when we are bad we struggle, when we are good we set records!

Even if we don't maintain last season's high standards, and most Evertonians are realistic to realise we probably won't, we are in the best position we have been for a long time.

I for one can't reach Mr Green from my seat with a pie but I will happily await his next visit and analysis because we are turning from a bad side to a side hard to beat to a side people may notice and (dare I say it) fear.

If we end up in the Uefa Cup, we will be doing better than every other team in the Premiership (including the half wits from acroos the park) based on expectation.

The School of Science is about to re-open so all you secondary moderns watch out, NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM
Paul  Thomas, Flintshire  (20/08/05)

The Loneliest Man In the World
Regarding Alan Green's totally over the top and unecessary attack on David Moyes in the Irish press, I am reminded of a few years ago when Joe Royle was boss at Man City, Green launched a similar vitriolic and very personal attack on big Joe. Joe's response told us all we need to know about Alan Green and how is regarded by people in the game. He said: "If Alan Green held his birthday party in a phone box, there would still be plenty of room."

Enough said. Let the mad man rant and we'll do our talking on the field.
Richard Ewart, Melbourne, Australia  (20/08/05)

Alan Green
"You can love him or hate him, he certainly gets people talking."

I have submitted my attempts at debate to this site in the past and I was all set to do it again today in response to Green's Irish Examiner piece. I was going to be considered and rational, oozing irony and wit and would have taken your breath away by my skill in leading your readers to the very heart of the issue at hand.

Instead I have bought some steel capped boots, a wet haddock and a map to Green's house.... Certainly got me talking.
Ged Simpson, Chester  (20/08/05)

All mouth and no trousers? — Ed

More Reaction to Alan Green
With regret I admit that Alan Green and I were born in the same country. Happily, for me, he now resides in England, I can only apologise. His comments regarding Everton are typical of what passes for 'punditry' these days. I do enjoy listening to 5live but I have switched off on many occasions when his ramblings and opinions get in the way of what is happening on the pitch.

I question the merits of presenters such as Green and DJ Spoony and wonder what insight and divine knowledge they have about football that couldn't be written on the back of a stamp. He outlines in his book the reasons he didn't make it on to TV, but we all know otherwise. If truth be told widescreen wasn't available and he has a face only a mother could love and only radio could accommodate.

He accuses Moyes of signing players he has never heard of, well, is this surprising? It shows the guys lack of football knowledge and his hypocracy. He said himself the big players didn't want to go to a one-season wonder, so what was Moyes to do? I myself didn't realise Tim Cahill's promise when he was at Millwall, now all of a sudden to quote Green "he is one of our best players". But had you heard of him before we signed him Alan? Who knows?

His over use of the word 'shocking' is quite striking, indeed it aptly describes the man. His style, his voice, his annoying over exaggerated laugh in the background of someone else's commentary and the feeling I get when I turn on only to be met with his irritating overtones... Shocking! Just Shocking!

There is nothing wrong with someone voicing their opinion, after all, every dog has its day. The only thing is, I think Moyes may have been tongue in cheek when he targeted 3rd this season, whereas it was our nutritiously over achieving 'football expert' who needs to see a doctor as I think he forgot to take his insulin.

Maybe people think he was right on the mark regardless of how bitter and devoid of credit his comments were. Personally it amuses me that the guy actually has a newspaper column - Alan, I think its time to hand it over to Mike Ingham to take us through to full-time.
Stan Sheppard, Ireland  (19/08/05)

Lack of New Signings
For each and every name suggested by fans on the internet, you can be sure that Moyes has another five he has tracked down, taken a look at, perhaps talked to, asked other coaches/past coaches about. He’s done his research and he has chosen not to buy. It could be for a whole bunch of reasons but we can be sure David Moyes has done his homework. While we all have our own favorites we would like to see in Blue, Moyes will have made a decision one way or the other on each of them.

As a “prudent” (some may say frugal) Scot, he’s going to be very cautious and he wont spend his pennies until he’s sure of what he’s buying. Before he buys, he’s going to need to know exactly how much he can spend, and he wont know that until after the Villareal game. If we get through, Keith Wyness will have given him a certain figure that he can spend; if we go out, Davie will have a different amount that he knows is available to spend. Then, he has a week to go after one of two different lists of targets depending on how much money he has available. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that he has some of the preliminary negotiations already accomplished for both lists (at least I’d like to think that).

Anyway, thanks for the site and the comment pieces, you are all much appreciated!
Greg Dawson, Sacramento, CA  (19/08/05)

Alan Green and other media gobshites
How do pricks like Alan Green still have a job? His latest outburst against David Moyes is another in a long line of outbursts against anyone rocking the media darling's boat of Chelsea, Arsenal, Man Utd, Newcastle and Liverpool having a god-given right to share every cup and title between themselves.Even the BBc had to apologise for earlier bashes against Man U and Man City as eloquently reported in this old article.

I'm not a Man Utd fan but idiots like this constantly fill the papers and TV with utter shite, dont forget the best selling newspaper in the UK is The Sun and the majority of its readers just about capable of communication through grunts and crayons, but they still make up the majority of media-buying Brits.

Just as Sean Ingles's article hits the nail on the head over football loyalty and the ability if anyone can get together and be arsed to try to make a change, then surely this media prick and his friends should also fall under the same spotlight; oust the clown from his job!

Feeling better now... keep up the great mix of articles from Rob et al.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (19/08/05)

Alan Green's a Tosser
I read the article you provided the link to. You should also link the eloquent reader's reply in the same paper (from a Tranmere supporter no less).

Alan Green is like a verbal version of The Sun, trashy and not afraid to make it up if it suits his own agenda. He is constantly up Fergie's backside, trying to get back in his good books after one jibe too many at old red nose led to his being ostracised by Fergie. It's always 'Rafa'with Beneathus too; he is quite stomach-churning in his sychophancy.

I've also never understood why so many fans from all clubs are prepared to spend their precious time ringing in to be patronised by the man on his 5Live phone-in. Anyway,as the Tranmere fan wrote, I hope Moyes sticks a copy up in the dressing room this Sunday. If that doesn't get them going nothing will!
Steve G, Harrogate  (19/08/05)

Off to the match
Well here I go again, I am off to the Bolton match. I will go with an open mind and just worry myself sick... I am not worried about the midfield or the defence, But I am wondering who is going to score the goals for us. We do need some fire power. But where are the strikers who can get you 30 goals a season? There are very few around these days. We need to approach Mr Owen and try and get him here. But I am looking forward to the Bolton game and I think we could sneak a 1-0 win, if Tiny Tim can get us the goal. So, Evertonians, let's do what we do best and live in hope.
Jim , North Wales  (8/20/)

Congatulations - Now about the new kit again
First up, I'd just like to praise you for highlighting Sean Ingle's excellent article for the Guardian. The man is spot on.

And while I didn't put it as eloquently as he did, it was the point I was trying to make a week or so back when I queried why Everton needed to change their kit four times in four years. Like the ticket fiasco, with the new kit EFC is also laughing at us.

I know you'll say the money goes to the club and if I support it I should fork out. Well, bugger it, I won't. Four new kits in four years is just taking the piss.

I must admit I'm losing interest in the game. The predictability year in year out is nauseating.

What are we really playing for this year in the Premiership.. 5th place.. 6th?? And that was before a ball was even kicked. What's the point? It's laughable.

As the man says, until football fans step up and demand change it's not going to improve. The answer isn't to give football clubs more money either - be it for kit or tickets. It's to demand a more equitable, competitive league. The time for change is here.
Paul Kish, Adelaide, Australia  (19/08/05)

Personally, I guess that's why my focus has always been on the field of play. I have never got this replica shirt thing — but I can see that's a matter of personal choice... or peer pressure! A more equitable league really is a pipedream, it seems. I thought fans owning their clubs was the way forward, but what happened to Man Utd is a massive downer on that now. We need a revolution, brothers! — Ed

Bottom of the League, we're avin a laff
After reading Rob Fox's tome I'm glad to see that others are starting to see how we've improved. Take a look at the fixture list, by the end of August we'll (with a modicom of luck) have 3pts maybe 2 and be bottom of the league, by the end of September (again with a modicom of luck) we'll have 8 maybe 9pts and most probably still bottom of the league. (Whats that song.. It might as well rain until September!)

But start to look at the fixture list from then on.. GO ON, Ave A LOOK!! and tot up the likely points won until 31/12/05 and then to the end of the season.. Now I reckon we can get to 30pts by the end of December, 40pts by the end of February and by the end of the season 63pts!! the least I got us to was 55pts! I was amazed by this as usually I've come to the conclusion it was best not to look as I'd start thinking about Morrisey and hanging meself!!

The point is (not so eloquent as the Fox) is that David Moyes HAS made the difference, apart from the top three no other clubs have strengthened with enough quality to finish above us, they're still playing catch up... So turn off the Morrisey records, put away the Ritalin and Seroxat, cut down the hangman's noose and start to think happy thoughts!!! (Cue the song.. Happy , Happy, Happy, Happy talk, talk about things yooo like to doooo.. or somink like that)...

HI Ho, HI Ho, to Villarreal I go,
with a bucket and spade and a Lyons Maid...
HI ho hi ho hi ho HI HOOOOO....
Tommy G, Aintree  (18/08/05)

And how rich would you be if you could even predict the points tally from our next three games? Never mind the rest of the season??? Oh dearie me... but whatever rocks your boat. — Ed

G' Owen Our Way ?
I still beleive the club should pull out ALL the stops and at least attempt to sign Owen. He's a proven goalscorer, the right age, certainly the right character for the David Moyes school of hard-working team-focused model proffesionals... and in addition to that, how would it look to future potential targets if we could land the likes of a player with the profile of Michael Owen? I'm not saying he'd come to Everton, but he certainly won't approach us now will he? Come on Davey, Keith, Bill show us you really DO mean business... and in answer to the 'where's the money coming from?' imagine the increased revenue a signing like Owen would bring to the club... Am I dreaming ? Yes, but when I, and others like me stop dreaming, then Everton will have lost something very precious...
Brian Williams, Wirral  (18/08/05)

Wyness is still laughing
Just read the article in the Guardian - the same day I have received a letter from Wyness following my complaint about the selling of the home Villarreal tickets. Not a hint of an apology that a long-standing loyal Everton fan was upset, not a semblance of remorse, not a thought that he might have got things slightly wrong in making the best fans in the world queue for over 5 hours. The Guardian article is right - Everton the club are laughing at us. The Peoples Club - what a joke!
Mick Wrende, Macclesfield  (18/08/05)

But when it comes to getting behind some organized response with single-minded determination — as the article suggests we should — the best fans in the world tend to be all over the map... ask Ian Macdonald. — Ed

Good stuff
Just read the Rob Fox column and I would like to say what a quality in-depth good read that was. I just want to say well done to him for that as it was a real eye-opener. My views are very simular to his and to see that was great. Once again, thanks!
Wayne Jellis, Liverpool  (18/8/05)

Back slapping
I would just like to congratulate you guys for the ToffeeWeb site. Throughout the summer you have continued to compose articulate, thought provoking submissions which are un-biased and honest. Rob's recent column just maintained the high level of writing which I have yet to see on another fans website.

On a completely different note, as much as I am gutted by last nights inept display by the national team, it has put into perspective how far my beloved blues have come in recent years. If the galacticos of England can be trounced by a Danish team with few superstars and a hard working ethic, then it might just be a good nine months yet!
Adam Carey, Ascot, Berks  (18/08/05)

Dear Rob...
An interesting article but you are wrong about transfers and our Davie. Yes, Cahill was a lucky strike but he is not a world beater. Yes, Martin was a good short-term buy, but age is catching up now and he seems to have no plan B for the next phase with Wright being plain awful and Ruddy/Turner too young.

I agree that Neville is a good signing but he is a reject none the less and could not break into United's side on a permanent basis. I also disagree with you about who you don't sign. This speaks volumes for the lack of ambition in the club, possibly the lack of funds and certainly the lack of nous of Moyes.

His signings are not all great. Beattie and Wright have been a disaster. Plessis was a waste of time and this is replicated throughout his tenure as manager. The only players we have signed have been those in whom no other club expressed an interest. We need to sign a decent striker, two decent defenders and to bolster midfield.

ps - Kilbane was again superb for Eire - in the middle of midfield. Can our Davie not fathom this out?
Tom M, Wirral  (18/08/05)

Glad someone was bold enough to take Rob up on some of those claims. I am often tempted to add my comments in the text as I'm doing the Edit job, but there were a lot of complaints when I did that! — Ed

Foxy words
Good to read Rob Fox's balanced piece on ToffeeWeb. God knows why Evertonians are slagging Moyes off and being negative... just a brief recollection of such names as Pembridge, Tal, Alexandersson, Watson, etc...should remind us we now have a team that can compete.

So nice one, Rob, although at the risk if being negative!!!...you need a good sub, mate...War and Peace has already been written...
Nick West, London  (18/08/05)

Oi! It took me 2 hours to go through as it was! I've tried to get him to be more concise... and he just writes more and more and more... But the quality is too good for me to weild the axe. — Sub Ed

Great article Rob Fox.... keep em coming
Thoroughly enjoyed the latest Rob Fox article. Great use of Smiths tracks. Keep it up, Rob.
Simon Christian, Eccles  (18/8/05)

Reality Check
The Rob Fox article was a great antidote to my accute depression over all things Everton. The explanation of how we only just lost to Villarreal and Man Utd put things in their proper perspective. By rights, he seemed to be saying, we shouldn`t be on the same pitch as the semi-finalists in the Uefa Cup and yet we did so well! And Man Utd, well, they are in another league....

OK, suitably cheered, I shall travel to Bolton to see a real tester against a side whose progress over recent seasons mirrors ours. A win will show the Fox assessment to be spot on. A draw and tenth may be attainable. But lose and I can only see a season of struggle and angst. Then I`m a simple soul!
David Hall, Taunton  (18/08/05)

Basing the future of the season on one game... have you not learnt anything!!! — Ed

Panic!
Excellent article by Rob Fox today (although slighty long and some of the song title references are slighty tenuous but well worked nevertheless!). The long and short of it, would we have settled 50 weeks ago for where we are now (before the 2nd leg to Villarreal and after our fairly commonplace loss to Man Utd)? Too right we would have! We have an improved 1st team and, yes, the squad could do with strengthening but, with the exception of the laughable London spivs, whose couldn't? Get a grip, please, you doom mongers. Now Rob, let's see you write the same article in a REM, Radiohead or Joy Division style!!
Steve Fletcher, Nottingham  (18/08/05)

Comparable Sites?
Love the site... are there any good sites about other Clubs? I looked for them but most seem like just pornlink sites to other peoples stories.
Bob Roberts, Dublin  (18/8/05)

We did once try to build a list of similar independent websites for the other leading clubs but we didn't get very far. If any one has some suggestions, we will add links to the list, which is probably in serious need of updating.... — Ed

Piss-taking, red horde bastards
In response to Doug Hesketh from Runcorn, I don't know how the Red fans at his factory can laugh at him for Beattie when they have bought a great lummox in Peter Crouch. The only people that should be laughing are Southampton who got over £10M for the two! A 0-0 draw with Middlesborough is hardly title form either!! Watching Sissoko at the weekend he was absolutely crap, although it is his first game I guess. Don't think we missed out there. NSNO
Daniel Parker, New York, US  (17/08/05)

Errr. We don't care.... — Ed

A sliver lining
I know it's not much of a chance but at least I feel we have some hope of pulling out a result next week in Spain, and all because of Beattie's injury. The fact he can't play is our only hope as Marcus Bent can take his rightful place in the team.

He showed last season he is the only striker at the club that can play in Moyes's favoured system. We were good before Christmas with him as our main striker, afterwards we were crap with Beattie upsetting both the system and Bent. Bent must be totally pissed off...he was a main man in our push to 4th, his place was then given to a donkey who is'nt fit to lace his boots, and he's probably on a lot less money too.

Every time he plays he's better than Beattie and I think he has been poorly treated by Moyes who continues to pick an inferior player because his reputation is unfortunately tied to Beattie becoming a major success.

I'm sure the next few teams we play are more concerned now that some pace and mobility will have to be picked to threaten them. I'm sure any premier defenders would just love Beattie to play against...sorry, but his injury is the best thing to happen to us just now.
Mike Price, Songkhla, Thailand  (17/8/05)

To be fair, Bent played for much of the second half of the season as well because Beattie hardly played between injuries and suspension. — Lyndon

Strikers set the tone!
Well I have just read the link that the latest target is Mark Viduka. Please God let this just be a rumour!

Their are simplistically FOUR categories of strikers:

1. Big and bustle, good target man: Dunc, Crouch, they have no pace, usually a nice touch but need a partner who can read them and capatalise on their 'flick off's'!
2. Goal poacher, they just have this instinct/talent of being in the right place at the right time: Lineker, Van Nistelrooy, Keane, Aldridge - greedy bastards who deliver the goals.
3. Striker with pace but no finish: Bent, Radzinski, Baros.
4. Pace and finish: Owen, Rush, Henry,

Strikers provide the identity of any team; look at any team and your impression of that team is in the main formulated by the strikers.

Let's face it the Premiership is dominated by pace and the top teams attack with plenty of it backed up by a midfield who FOLLOW UP to optimise the space the front runner's create.

All Viduka would compound is lazy Route One football, with balls hit from the defence by-passing a midfield who then themselves become lazy and so it goes on...

DM, if you are thinking about Viduka, please don't! I'd rather stick the season out with Marcus trying to play on the floor. Why do you think Charlton want him and they are not going for Verruca [sic].
Dave McDowell, Bangkok, Thailand  (17/08/05)

Beattie
I think that the knee jerk reactions flying around about James Beattie are a bit extreme. Granted, he hasn't had the best of times with his fitness, but from memory he has never had a lithe Henry-like physique anyway. Why we are suddenly expecting him to shed a load of weight and find a few extra yards of pace confounds me.

It is obvious his confidence is shot and he looks to be trying too hard and therefore is not relaxed enough to play his game. The fact that he doesn't suit the 4-5-1 formation is something that Moyes and the Board need to address. It is obvious he needs a strike partner, and I sometimes wonder why we don't play him and Bent up front together until a new forward arrives.

I realise that football is not that simple but Bent is a good runner and weak finisher and Beattie is the opposite. Is that not an ideal strike partnership?
Adam Carey, Ascot, Berks  (17/08/05)

I don't think it's actually been fully tried because either Beattie has been injured (or suspended) or Moyes has insisted on playing 4-1-4-1. — Lyndon

Frustrated
Went back to work after two weeks off and, yes, you've guessed it: got loads of stick from the red half of the factory. They laugh at Beattie, laugh at our results and laugh that no one wants to come to Everton. I personally think Beattie is a goalscorer but needs another half-decent striker to play alongside. I now hear we are after Viduka who is lucky to get on the Boro bench. I wonder what his morale will be like after playing upfront on his own and the only crosses coming in are what Pistone puts in from the edge of his own box. Please give us something to shout about. All we have at the moment is people venting their frustration on websites like this. We don't care what the redshite say, but Moyes should at least give us a reply!
Doug Hesketh, Runcorn  (17/08/05)

Amen to that, Doug — Lyndon

NO WAY
Viduka - Jesus Christ tell me it aint so!
And why Beattie is getting slagged off so much is amazing, you don't go from England International to Div 2 (or Scottish Premiership striker) overnight! He's certainly got more chance of hitting the back of the net than Bent, especially if you play someone up there with him. Baros, Ashton, Owen, Carlton Cole, Leroy Lita.... BUT NOT MARK VIDUKA, PLEASE NOT MARK VIDUKA!
Rog Walker, Portsmouth  (17/08/05)

Paper talk. Please, God, it's just paper talk :) — Lyndon

Keep the faith
Beattie did not exactly fill me full of hope when we signed him, but he's here now so give him a chance. I hear some clowns in the ground having a go; maybe they should try having the ball lumped at them. If and when we play him with a strike partner he WILL score goals. The problem is our fullbacks refuse to get wide and put in a decent ball, are they coached in this?
Dave Kelly, Leyland  (17/08/05)

Viduka would be GREAT!
I'm SURE most of you supporters would disagree with me, but I've been watching Mark Viduka for many many years, and he is IDEAL for the lone striker position. His ability to hold up the ball, shield off multiple defenders and lay off to his teammates is second to none. He's been hard done by by the English press over the years, and Everton would do very well with Cahill feeding off Viduka's hard work. Feel free to cane this opinion, but this is coming from a bloke who knows Mark's game very very well. I've been praying for years that Everton would pick him up. I truly hope the rumour of Moyesy being interested in him is true.
Garlden Greek  (17/08/05)

Gordon Lee & Davey Moyes
I've noticed in a few articles of late, disparaging remarks about both managers, unfairly in my opinion. Both managers have had to work with constraints on money yet both built teams good enough to qualify for Europe. Moyes may well even win a few trophies with proper financial support.

Gordon Lee (most people seem to forget) built a team which went on a 19-game unbeaten run in 78-79 season and should have won the League but for no money being available when he needed to strengthen for the run in, similair in fact to Billy Bingham in 74-75 when again we should have won the League. So if you want to compare managers in a disparaging manner, check your facts!

By the way, success eluded Everton in the 70s because of lack of cash at the right time — not because of the managers (and before the know-alls say it, I know Bingham paid a record fee for the Latch, but when he needed a decent goalie funds did not materialise when needed).

Anyway, I'm orf to sunny Spain ter watch the Toffs from the Villarreal stands, not the cornershitehole Everton have got tickets for!
Tommy G, Aintree  (17/08/05)

The best lack all conviction, while the worst are
The belief at the moment seems to be that god is a a bit of a ditherer, who can't make up his mind if a player is good enough or not. I'm not sure if I agree with this view point, but there is a very interesting idea that extrapolates from this: That, therefore, the players he has signed he thinks are absolutely top class, and he has no doubts that they can be top Premiership players at Everton, or they can be sold for a good chunk of cheese at some future date. Therefore, if god is a ditherer, we have signed 5 top players, who at least 4 out of 5 of them are going to be great players for us.

You think Moyes is a ditherer then we have 4 or 5 top top players more than last year, and if you don't then you know we have a great manager who is going to be a Legend at Everton hopefully, or — slit wrists time — another club, where the fans appreciate what a great job he has done and is doing.
Bob Roberts, Dublin  (17/8/05)

Total waste of money!
I agree with David Barlow that something needs to be done about Beattie. His signing was clearly a huge mistake. IF he eventually gets fit, and IF he scores a few goals, which will probably be against the middle to lower order teams, then he still isn't the type of striker that's going to cut it in the pacy modern game. He will never be a part of the skillful, fast Everton team which is well overdue and we are all dying to see!...

WHY does it seem so far off... WHY are most of our signings basically crap... WHY do our defenders always just hoof it upfield.... WHY don't we ever outclass ANYONE anymore... WHY do we never seem to get a lucky break... WHY did Milan score that 3rd goal before half-time thereby switching off... Why did Shevchenko hit the follow up shot so cleanly... WHY did UEFA then change the rules and take away our pleasure of depriving them what they so desperately wanted.... WHY do we always have to be the ones that suffer?.....

Sorry about that, I just found myself staring into space and clenching my jaw too tightly.

Back to Beattie... and I dont think I've ever heard a gobbier player at Everton, he certainly talks the talk but never walks the walk! I think our only hope is to announce that he just can't settle in Liverpool for personal reasons etc, and try to get rid of him via some kind of player exchange. He really is the ultimate 'White Elephant'!
Mike Price, Songkhla,Thailand  (17/8/05)

Beattie - rip up his contract!
An absurd suggestion by David Barlow that Everton could or should literally rip up Beattie’s contract. What bugs me is that we are a team that can barely score goals as it is. Beattie is a man who has shown, albeit in the past, that he can score. Bloody hell, should we rip up Bent’s contract as well? He never scores either. Who the hell are going to replace them?

What is more, it is probably true that if Beattie had a strike partner we would see an increase in goal-scoring activity. I know when we signed him I didn’t think of him as lone striker material, but as a traditional British centre-forward playing in the 4-4-2 formation. I am also not sure why David should cry about the Toffeeweb reply to his odd suggestion. The editor was not really particularly condescending (apart from in the second reply and David sort of asked for that).
Blop Adams, Alaska  (16/08/05)

I agree that with the right partner, Beattie will score goals — Lyndon

RE: Krøldrup injury
A hernia problem is a lot less serious than knee ligament damage hence signing Per and not Forssell. A hernia op will keep a player out for 1 month with 99% chance of full recovery. Multiple knee ligament ops can still leave a player with problems with early retirment sometimes necessary. There is no comparison.
Ian Ridley, Caterham  (16-08-05)

Reply to Ed!
In regard to your reply to my comments about Beattie (dated 8/15/05), if the club splashes out £6M on a player you expect him to "settle in" at any level or any team! and if he wasn't fit at the time of the signing, don't sign him! What they should do is get rid of him on a free and yes break his contract. His wages must be at least £30k a week.

Your response to give him time is something Walter Smith and co would have done! Remember Nick Barmby, so think before you speak and please don't condescend me or any Everton fans as we hear enough crap in the media. Everton deserve better!
David  Barlow, Colorado, USA  (8/16/05)

Ah... you picked up on the condescension then, I see... It may be what would happen in American sports, but I think you are still being very silly to suggest that Everton would terminate his contract based on what has happened so far. That is plainly ridiculous. They have invested a huge amount and they have a binding contractual agreement which includes provisons for exactly this kind of situation (injury). Only if he became a total crock (cf. Danny Williamson) would Everton be in any position to start negotiating a contract termination. — Ed

Beattie the sick note.
I know we have to keep positive during this difficult time, but we must tackle this on-going "Beattie saga". I have voiced my views before but I would love to hear other people's feelings about this subject. Personally, I think Everton and Moyes should admit it was a mistake signing him and count our loses and move on.

There are so many more players out there who could do the job, even Teddy Sheringham at West Ham showed more promise on Saturday than James Beattie... and he is 39! Let's not waste anymore time as the season will slip away from us and we have some really good players in the squad right now: Davies, Arteta, and Cahill can provide the service as was seen against United.
David  Barlow, Colorado, USA  (15/8/05)

Come on, now; he's just having a bit of trouble settling in. What are advocating exactly? Terminating his contract and paying a new club record fee to bring in someone who can? Walter Smith would have loved having you on the Board of Directors! — Ed

A fair go
At what point in a player's career should he lose the "Potential" tag? For the past years, a few Everton players have been immune from criticsm because of their potential. I sympathise with team mates who have enough on their plate without also doing that of perennial 'potentials'.
Dick Fearon, Australia  (16/08/05)

Do you have anyone in mind? Vaughan? Potenial is good. Naysmith? It will never happen. — Ed

Our strict medical?
Everton claim to have very stringent medical procedures for new players to attend prior to signing, they dismissed Forsell for failing a medical which is fair enough but how did Krøldrup get in if his groin gives out after one match ?
Jon Taylor, London  (15/08/05)

[Negativity Alert] Now come on... he's played in more than one match surely? He played in most of our pre-season games... although as we know, they don't mean anything. He sat on the bemch v Villarreal... so he really hasn't played in any matches of any significance yet.

One could argue that he will have been under a much more rigorous excerise regime at Everton than anything he will have experienced before, as Moyesie likes 'em fit. But the fact that he actually said he had a bit of a problem toward the end of last season should surely have been a warning sign. Ah well... there's nowt can be done about it now. We'll just have to live with it. Get well soon, Per! — Ed

Moyes is not negative!
Moyes is not a negative manager, nothing like Walter Smith, as some people have suggested. It was not so long ago that Moyes was bringing Rooney off the bench to great effect, and he was doing the same to a lesser degree with Duncan last season. He is more than prepared to go for it. The fact of the matter is that our midfield has never been strong enough to play four across the middle. He has taken action on this now; we look a lot stronger there with the arrivals of Neville and Davies.

I think Moyes will revert to 4-4-2 for most games this year, even if we don't get a new striker. But let's face it, in Man Utd and Villarreal we have played two cracking teams and put on a good show in both games. If anyone honestly thinks we could have played 4-4-2 against either of those sides and not get ripped apart then they are deluded.
Danny Broderick, London  (15/08/05)

Perhaps I am deluded... but in both these games, just after the hour mark, Moyes sacrificed a midfielder to bring on Duncan Ferguson. It seems his approach was to switch to 4-4-2 — but only after the game is lost... Why would he do that? To prevent more goals? Or to try and score a few? I suppose it is a moot point how many we scored after that point..... But how many did the opposition score in these games while we were playing 4-4-2? — Ed

Many positives to cling to
You should link to the Daily Post match report ... it got it exactly right. Let's try and calm some of the early season hysteria that's gripped many Evertonians...
Nick West, Liverpool  (15/8/05)

Yes, if you want an antidote to the manic depressives at ToffeeWeb, you could do no better than to survey the array of uplifting Everton stories at the icLiverpool.co.uk website today. It's wonderful stuff! Kinda makes you wonder though... if they are bending over backwards to convince us to relax, calm down, everything is just hunky-dory... then there must be something seriously wrong!!! — Ed

Krøldrup injured?
Ok so now he needs an operation. Fair enough. But I seem to remember that we rejected a certain Mr Forsell for potentially having a dodgy knee. How is it that Forsell was caught but Krøldrup managed to slip through our allegedly tight medical?
Nick Dommett, London, UK  (15/08/05)

Well.... [Negativity Alert] ... according to Per: "I had a bit of a problem at the end of last season..." Per Wants to Play, so you may well ask about the effectiveness of our much-vaunted medical vetting process. Guess you just can't win 'em all, eh? — Ed

Perception vs Reality
For those of us who think we are making progress, the last 20 league games make interesting reading:

18 points in 20 games; Goals For: 22 Goals Against: 35

In 13 of those games we have scored 1 or less goals Our forwards have scored the princely sum of 6 goals between them in these 20 matches, with one being an own-goal. Take Cahill out and we have scored only 14 goals

We have not got any points in an away game since February (and some expect us to beat VillaReal - get real!). Moyes must be able to see that we are lacking firepower! We have been like this for his whole tenure.

The facts are simple:

We don't score many goals - probably due to the tactics he likes - otherwise known as 4-5-1, safety first (is this a Scottish Coach thing because Walter Smith liked to be cautious as well?).

We leak goals at the other end (often stupid errors)

Despite Wright's confidence is shot to pieces he continues to use him (this is also reducing his value).

We seem to be inept in the transfer market. Beattie has been injured more than he is fit, Krøldrup is now injured; he gives an extetnsion to Naysmith (who is injured) and yet will not risk money on fitter, more able players.

We are in for a long hard season.
Tom M, Wirral  (15/8/05)

Oh Gawd.... [Massive Negativity Alert]. I think I have just lost the will to live.... — Ed

Same old same old
Having watched the first 2 competitive games of the season, it is clear that we are still a team of perspiration and not one of inspiration. The lack of imagination in our football is painfully obvious, so obvious in fact, that you can almost predict what is going to happen before it happens.

You can predict that as soon as the ball goes to one of our fullbacks, it will inevitably be given back to the opposition cheaply. You can predict that when we have the opportunity to put in a decent cross, it will inevitably not get beyond the first defender, and you can predict, that despite all our huff and puff, we will be undone by the opposition through sheer guile and skill: Villareal twice; United's first on Saturday.

Until we invest in some real quality, we will always remain on the periphery when it comes to winning some of football's major honours. I, like most Evertonians, am realistic enough not to expect us to go out and buy an Henry or Shevshenko (not yet anyway), however it disturbs me when I read that we are linked with wo players from Preston. No disrespect intended, but surely we can do better than that.
Paul Christian, Liverpool  (15/8/05)

Now in some quarters, that would be labeled "negativity"; however, it is as sad fact that your analysis is spot on. — Ed

Evertonian my backside
So are those at Toffeeweb who have this thing going on trying to convince people into thinking Rooney’s still an Evertonian going to shut up? When Beattie scored past Southampton did he celebrate in the faces of Saints fans? No. When Andy Johnson scored past Birmingham he just put his head down and walked back to the centre circle. Even Redshite McAllister showed respect to Coventry fans when he scored for Liverpool at Highfield Road. Yet when van Nistlerooy scores for Man Utd, Rooney feels the need to run up to the Street End and celebrate in our faces – Christ it wasn’t even him who scored!

If I was a footballer, and I’m sure most Evertonians feel the same, and I was playing for another club there is no way on Earth I’d celebrate in the face’s of my fellow Evertonians. This is why Rooney cannot be called an Evertonian. And please don’t give me any bullshit about the stick Rooney gets made him do it, after all James Beattie got a load of stick and didn’t feel the need to rub his ex-fans faces in it.
Adam Bennett, Liverpool  (15/08/05)

Guess you and all the other Evertonians who now hate his guts are right, and I have been proven wrong. Mea culpa. — Ed

toffeewhinge.com
If your website doesn't lighten up and develop a more optimistic view on things and the fortunes of the team then you are in danger of losing many readers. It sometimes seems that 'toffeewhinge. com' would be more suitable.
Jack Tilly  (15/8/05)

Uh? They lose; we report that they lose. Some fans bitch and moan into the mailbag... others think the team are doing OK and say so. Some fans think Moyes is doing OK; others don't. We just try refect back a range of views like this, is that really so wrong?

If you want to read inspiring stories about how Everton are going to beat Fulham and Bolton, and how Beattie and McFadden are finally going to "do it" for us... well, I think you know the website I'm thinking of... It (long with others)celebrates with wonderous positivity the news that Beattie has not broken a bone in his foot, whereas all we can do is bemoan the fact that another key player will be out for "some weeks". Nothing quite like putting positive spin on really bad news, is there? — Ed

Owen
I would dearly, dearly love for Michael Owen to come to the Mighty Blues, as would any right-thinking Evertonian. However, it is all just a pipe-dream, from the pen of one Mr William Kenwright esq. Billy Boy, you never fooled me over the Alan Smith malarky, don't try it with 'young' Michael. In fact, stop taking the piss. (FULL STOP)
Stop Laughin', UpHolland  (15/08/05)

Oh dear... this one is really stirring up the hornets! — Ed

We're so crap...
Christ almighty we've only played two games but I've had enough already. Crap mamager, crap players, crap formation, crap stadium. I'm off to burn my season ticket and slash my wrists. Sack the board.

I'm joking of course but I do think following Everton turns quite reasonable people into raving lunatics. I mean booing Pistone before he even touched the ball. I'll admit it did make me laugh for a few seconds but it still isn't right. Is it? I don't exactly see a queue of left-backs desperate to sign for us. You can pluck names out of your arse all you want but fact is they are not here and they ain't coming anytime soon.

Any cash we do have I think we all agree needs to go on a striker. We were well on top for periods in both games but just couldn't get that crucial goal we deserved. Against United the game was up after the Yobo incident. I'll forgive him if he can tell me whether it was it a pass to Weir or Martyn. I'm still a bit confused about that one.

After some of the shite I've watched over the years it's great to know we are competing at this level; disappointing results for sure but there is always another game, thats the beauty of football. That and booing Pistone.
Stephen Burton, Belfast  (14/08/05)

Another game with missed chances
Yet again, we battled well and got some encouragement from the game but can't seem to score. We are starting to build a decent (if not still too small) squad, but we are screaming out for a striker. I know Pistone is far from what we need/want but will just about do for the time being — at least the rest of the defence can make up for his errors. Upfront you cannot hide, particularly in a 4-5-1; you are there to score goals and we don't have anyone who can consistently. The tabloids should spare us with the Owen bullshit links. "Robbie Keane!" we all utter time and time again... he wasn't even on the bench for Spurs this weekend...
Luke Griffey, St Ives, Cambridgeshire  (14/08/05)

Transfers
I read with interest and occasional amusement the transfer rumours associated with our great club (Michael Owen, yes he'll lose £60,000 a week to play for the club who rejected his dad rather quickly). Darren Bent could have been very useful; Robbie Keane has the necessary pace (but may lack the team ethos, so beloved of Moyes).

However, a player who may lack maturity and team spirit, but who certainly has artistry, creativity and possibly is the attacking mid-fielder we so obviously lack, is David Bentley. He, Neville, Arteta and Cahill would with the aid of Osman and Davies on the bench, give us the option of playing 4-4-2 with Bent and Beattie.
Rick Tarleton, Rutland  (14/08/05)

Sounds like you've got it all sorted there, Rick. Stick it in Championship Manager and yer off to the races, I reckon. — Ed

Having a laugh
Just been reading about Everton going after Mr Owen!!!! Well if this is not taking the piss out of us, then I am not sure what is.

Blue Bill Kenwright has told Moyes he will get the £12M to finance the move. Oh please, you only mention things like this when you know Mr Owen would not come to Everton FC, as Newcastle, Liverpool, Man Utd, Wigan are waiting in the wings. £12M — you are kidding me!! Or has the fortress money finally come though!!! I would love to see Owen in our team but, like many of you out there, "We can dream" — just like Blue Bill.

After saying that, the team are doing OK, I think?
Jim , North Wales  (14/8/05)

The Owen thing does sound a little odd (Can you ever trust what is in the Sunday red-tops?), and the likelihood of it happening seems remote... but you just never know in football.

Yea, we lost the first two games, we're joint bottom of the Prem, and our star signing will be out for the bettter part of two months. But the team's doing OK.... I guess. — Ed

Not hindsight!
Talking of strikers we should or shouldn't have signed. Many, including me were praying we wouldn't get slow, unskilled and ridiculously over-rated and over-priced Beattie... Moyes, what were you thinking?! We always seem to buy flash-in-the-san strikers... Campbell, Bakayoko, etc. But what has Moyes got against pace? The facts are we could have bought Darren Bent at £3M, Henri Camara at £3M and Kevin Phillips at £750k — all for the same total price as Beattie!!! In any other business, that would be classified as gross negligence!
Mike Price, Songkhla,Thailand  (14/8/05)

Sheesh! — the knives are out today... er... "Get behind the team, please." Not easy, is it? — Ed

It gets worse by the day!
Just what is going on at Goodison? Not only do we sign a defender who, by his own admission, had never met the Manager until days after he signed but it now transpires that said defender carried his thigh injury through the latter stages of last season!

Is Per Krøldrup the 2005 version of Mr Bilic? I suspect so... but I for one wouldn`t trust Moyes with my kids`pocket money! Just had a thought; he`s already had that 50 times over in season ticket money — so who`s the real idiot?
David Hall, Taunton  (14/08/05)

Come on now, David. We are trying to be realistic, not downright negative. Things could certainly have gone better for David Moyes in the transfer market this summer, but you are going in over the top. Not sure exactly what it is you are referring to here regarding Krøldrup: I must have missed something... I never saw anything about not meeting moyes or carryting a thigh injury... Please name your sources! — Ed

Can't fool any of the people any of the time
Now that it's been safely confirmed that the rednoses ARE indeed after Michael Owen the Sunday People announce that Bill Kenwrong has told The Moysiah that he can match Liverpool's bid... Two words spring to mind: Alan & Smith!
John Pickles, Wirral  (14/08/05)

Strikers
Just had a thought on two strikers that we could have easily afforded, had no problems whatsoever in attracting and would have suited us better to 4-4-2 (which everyone seems to favour):

1. Kevin Phillips (now of Aston Villa) - knows James Beattie from his time at Southampton. Gives James the partnership he is crying out for.

2. Darren Bent (now of Charlton) - knows Marcus Bent from their time at Ipswich. Would have provided us with a very pacy option with abundance of strength in holding the ball up. Similar to that partnership of Ellington & Roberts at Wigan.

Each partnership could have been alternated every game, or even during - with the twist of Duncan being thrown in to mix it up a little.

Transfer fees
---------------------
Kevin Phillips - Undisclosed (Probably £2M-3M
Darren Bent - £3M
---------------------
Total - £5M-6m
---------------------

As an added bonus we'd have had FOUR ENGLISH strikers, some with National team potential... (Just hearing that Darren Bent has been called up in place of Andy Johnson!)

Anyone else think these would have been excellent signings for us??
Steven Astley, Wigan  (14/8/05)

Well, Jennifer of the Wirral for a start!

What a missed opportunity
Just a quick note really to say I was watching Match of the Day last night and for £3M Darren Bent looks an absolute snip. He was fast, good control and great shooting. Why in the heck don't we bid for Ellington? Although not proven, he could do a great job I'm sure.
Jennifer Green, Liverpool  (140805)

Sunday League
Lyndon Lloyd, in his match report of the Man Utd game, reminds me very much of some of the guys I used to play Sunday league with - in that, in their lifetimes they'd watched thousands of hours of football and yet were absolutely non-the-wiser about what went on on a football pitch.

At this stage - two games into a new season - having played and not been outclassed at all by two of the best teams in Europe - and in view of what David Moyes has achieved to date... there should be no Evertonian... repeat no Evertonian criticising the man or his team.

And if Lyndon Lloyd had any notion of what football is about he'd be excited at the prospect of what this current midfield looks like it could achieve.

And while I too share some of his reservations about James Beattie playing at the front of a five-man midfield... i'd like to remind him that Deportivo La Coruna were very successful with Diego Tristan playing as a lone striker at the front of a five-man midfield... and he's slower than Beattie.

So - please, no more negativity about the team and the five-man midfield. We could be in for a cracking Premiership campaign and maybe a good Uefa Cup run...

And as a Toffeeweb reader ...i'd like to enjoy it.
Nick West, london  (13/08/05)

Sorry you feel that way, Nick, but being the ambitious, "Nis Satis Nisi Optimum"-type Evertonian that I am, I have been disappointed with the two games we have played so far because despite what you say about my footballing knowledge, I can see what might have been had the squad been better prepared for them — specifically up front.

You're misinterpreting my match report because my criticism wasn't of the midfield per se; the main thrust of my argument was that they are playing the way they are because of the paucity of pace and movement up front. I haven't forgotten what that midfield did to Aston Villa earlier this year; I know what they are capable of and what they can be if Moyes brings in the right kind of player to partner James Beattie.

Until I see some urgency on the part of the manager to address the striker issue I shan't be happy. Sorry about that — Lyndon

Stop the boo-boys
This will be the last time on this subject, but why did Everton fans boo Pistone when the team was announced today? If someone can please explain what he's done wrong, I would love to know? And on the subject of fullbacks, do these people not see Hibbert, who is the worst passer of the ball I have ever seen at Everton in 36 years. But he plays for Everton, so I'm not going to boo him.

I actually left the game very early today, which might have been a good idea (in fact I only saw the first half) because of the stick some idiot was giving Pistone. Rather than have a go at him (he was about 100 years old), I left the ground. OK, you're all entitled to your opinion, but who would your still prefer: Unsworth, Naysmith, Watson??? It's actually putting me off going.
Ian Doyle, Wirral  (13/8/05)

How strange... Are you sure that's why you left? Goodison is a big place and it is pretty easy to find a different seat in the same section, well away from your pet hate. In my view, there is never any justification for leaving the ground early, especially at the beginning of the second half... mind you, watching Rooney score almost made me physically sick. — Ed

Desperately Defending a Deficit
For long periods, we appeared to be desperately defending the 2-0 deficit - and little wonder as there is zero threat up front; zero — with or without Beattie. We actually improved briefly after Beattie departed. It will be a disgrace if we don't immediately move for some deadly frontline force. Don't tell me no-one is available. Everyone else has been tooling up and all we have are platitudes. Apart from Cahill's contributions, I can't see where the goals are supposed to come from. SOS Baros... Owen... Anybody?
Peter Fearon, Liverpool  (13/08/05)

Getting Shirty
The current home shirt for this season, and also the new away 'silver lining' shirt (to be released on 1 September) are advertised on the official website as 05-06 shirts. Does anyone know if these shirts are only to last one season like the 04/05 efforts??

I'm considering buying the new home shirt... but I have issues if this one is only going to have a life of just 1 season as well!
Steven Astley, Wigan  (13/8/05)

If you're a shirt buyer, just buy it. You are supporting the club and adding (just a little) to David Moyes's transfer kity... Go-orrn! — Ed

Squandered chances
I thought we were a little unlucky today in as much as we came up against a pretty ordinary Man Utd side and created FOUR good chances which on another day may have been converted. Many people carp about tactics and formations but if you create the chances then it's not the system but the ability to convert.

For all the Euro hype, our first job is to stay in the Premiership and realise a postion somewhere from 8th to the top which will indicate surely even to the most sceptical that the team are indeed making progress (any bonus accepted) I wish Davy and his staff all the best in their efforts to get this giant of a club back on the rails.
Ken , Buckley  (13/08/05)

Nice post, Ken.

What about a 'keeper and a striker?
Watched the game today and it summed up what we need: a new striker and a new 'keeper. I'm sorry but Martyn has gone really slow and static; seems old age is catching up quick... He flapped at crosses today when he should have made it his ball, and he didn't even move for the Rooney shot. Martyn of last year would have at least tried to get something on that shot. People shouldn't slag Beattie off when clearly he thrives by playing off another striker alongside him. But Moyes won't even try Bent alongside him, which in my eyes just beggars belief.
Alan Atherton, Liverpool  (13/08/05)

Martyn is becoming a bit of a worry. Had to happen eventually, I suppose. His leap for that free-kick which sailed over the bare was poor; 2 feet lower... — Ed

Keep up the honest debate
Thanks ED - we looked like the team we are today, full of endeavour but devoid of skill and flair. My prediciton - we will sign one more player (probably Etuhu) and Moyes will come up with the stock reply that there are no players available.

Please maintain the atmosphere of mature debate unlike certain other sites where if you dare to criticise Moyes you are abused.
Tom M, Wirral  (13/8/05)

It needs sorting!
Another huff and puff display and yet again no goals, and until we learn how to attack there will be no goals. Why is Beattie on his own up front? Why did we leave the left hand side bare? Why do we not take players on and shoot more?David Moyes really is starting to worry me. Last season he was fantastic but over the summer in the transfer market and the first two games this season he is going back to the way it was two seasons ago. There is nobody better at getting the best out of average players but tacticlly is he stuggling? We defend too deep, our fullbacks don't get up the pitch like they should and we concentrate on having too many players in our own half most of the game.
DARREN FINDLAY, Yorkshire  (13/08/05)

All good questions, Darren

Man U Game
What a typical Everton way to lose a game. I honestly thought that in the fist half our midfield looked better than the Mancs. It also again has been highlighted where our weaknesses are.

The two full-backs do a job but I cringe every time they go to cross a ball in. If we are going to have wing-backs then we need to buy quality who can cross because I have seen far too many hospital balls from Pistone and Hibbert. Joey Yobo has been making big mistakes that cost us games all through his career and it's a real difficult task weighing up his pros and cons. Personally I say keep him because apart from his clanger, his defending was top class.

I'm sure you will all agree that we are really in desperate need of a pacey striker who can score goals (did someone mention Owen?). Bent, for all his running and effort, really does have little skill. Beattie simply needs a strike partner. So my conclusion is that whatever money we have left now me must put it towards a quality striker as a matter of priority.
Paul Coleman, Kettering  (13/08/05)

Nail, head. Endex.

Normal Service......
I think there is a glaring mistake in this article, Everton looked more likely to score AFTER Beattie went off injured than before. Marcus Bent will never be a 20 a season striker but he does suit the 4-5-1 formation Moyes is hell bent on playing.

Apart from a good goal from Van Donkey, the Rooney goal was Yobo's traditional single but catastrophic mistake per match and we played reasonably well.

Unfortunately it appears only the fans have any desire or ability to see that Everton need a clinical striker. Without goals, we will sadly fail to progress. I'm not saying we are not better than the majority of the Premiership — many other teams are in the same boat; mediocre. The addition of a proven goalscorer would cement Everton's ability to challenge for a Uefa place season after season and give the club a springboard to bigger and better things.

I'm not worried about relegation as the club would have to play some pretty dire football to slip that low — even with Pistone going walkies every game, Hibbert's lack of pinpoint crossing, and Beattie, Bent and Ferguson being devoid of a first or finishing touch.

Let's have Christmas early and get a decent striker before the transfer window shuts - PLEASE MR MOYES!
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (13/08/05)

Fair point on Beattie... and Marcus did actually take a few pops on goal, which was better than his normal performance. But our ball control generally was pretty shocking and painfully embarassing for me to watch. Sorry, but I want to see Everton playing better-quality football. — Ed

What can you say?
"A season of struggle looms for Moyes's boys..."
David C, Liverpool  (13/8/05)

Huff and puff again
Let's face it, to most realistic Evertonians it's been a very predictable week. The boring effort/workrate style of play just won't cut it against any decent team. Most of them can easily match our well advertised workrate and then cruise past us with the inevitable two or three moments of flair, and the last two teams to beat us gave the clear impression they could have scored more if they really wanted to.

Both games have clearly demonstated what many of us have been saying on this site. Obviously we lack pace, skill and guille, but Moyes's persistence with Beattie as lone striker is a sackable offence all by itself. The fact that he's wasted so much money and now has to play him to justify the purchase is a joke. When he went off today and Bent came on, the difference was instant and ridiculous! There was instantly more belief throughout the team, more threat, pace, mobility, physical presence... just about everything a striker should offer [except goals — Ed].

Beattie was shown up by Bent and so was Moyes. What's really annoying is that Bent is only average and just about every team in the Premiership carries more threat than we do up front.... who's FAULT is that?
Mike Price, Songkhla,Thailand  ()

I found the game wholly depressing for all these reasons, so you are preaching to the choir in my case. But there will be many who found "something positve" from this thoroughly depressing start to the season so far. And it may well get worse before it starts improving... — Ed

Healthy debate
We are all entitled to our own viewpoints, whether we agree with each other or not. It is the dichotomy of opinion featured in the mailbags which makes this website the tops for information on EFC. It is far better than Teamtalk and even Bluekipper.

One of the aspects of my views has been the tactics employed by Moyes and fans respond he had no choice because of the lack of resources. Well that is in his own hands. We do have a reserve team which presumably has a left back and centre backs, are thay so poor they cannot be given a chance?

We now hear that Villa are close to getting Baros; where is Moyes then? Baros in my view would be a welcome addition, but it is up to Moyes. In the meantime rumour has it he is chasing two first division players from Preston; why? They cannot be good enough and we would be left having two players on four-year contracts who we could not offload like some other players on the books.

It also looks as though Coco is going Toon way and he was a player looked at; was he no good? — surely better than Pistone.

The 4-5-1 formation is defensive, designed to not losing a match in the CL. In the League you need to win games to progress. Drawing in the CL is not an option unless you are three goals up from the first leg; we are not.

As for young players being blooded, I recall an 18-year-old making his debut at the San Siro stadium against Inter Milan... Who was he? His name was Colin Harvey.

It is all in the hands of David Moyes — of whom I now have doubts — not blind trust. I hope I am wrong. If I am I shall broadcast an apology on here in April 2006.
Robert Jarvis, Burnley  (13/08/05)

Colin Harvey: How long after that debut did he play his second senior game? How many games in total did he play that season?? How long before he became a regular??? (The answers may surprise you....) — Ed

T-Shirts
A big thanks for my T-shirts which arroved recently. I thought the days of an organisation trusting a customer were long gone. Congratulations - you sent the goods and asked me for my cheque, which I have despatched today. Keep up the good work; the site is excellent. Might I also appeal for moderate language? English is the most wonderful and comprehensive language in the world. Why not use it?
Tony Waring, Frogmore, UK  (13/08/05)

Lyndon has done a wonderful job with the T-shirts, so thanks for that, Tony.

Regarding strong language, as far as I know, all these words are part of the English language, in fact they are some of the most commonly used and have a rich and varied history. Far from shying away and pretending they don't exist, I think we should fully embrace them and accept them as part of our heritage. Why not use all of this wonderful language??? Shit, if it's OK for The Guardian then I think it's fine for us!

What I can't really stand are the asterisks people use when sending us "bad" language. What the f*ck is that all about? As if you can't figure out what word that really is... in which case, just what purpose do the asterisks serve? — Ed

Post Glazer/Rooney
Before we sign up every available and non-available player in Europe, South America and outer space, dare one ask where the cash is coming from? I seem to remember we sold a guy called Rooney last year for £27M of which we have so far received a mere £10M. Following the takeover at Utd - involving a hell of a lot of debt - can we be sure we will receive the outstanding £17M?
Tony Waring, Frogmore, UK  (13/08/05)

Not sure what gives you the impression we are signing hordes of players... in fact the opposite seems painfully true. But good question re the Roonmey money. The second £10M was due August 1st; did we recieve it? Or did we instead get some deal on a Manchester United reject... sorry, our future captain [must be positive!]. But no, there has been no confirmation of any further payments beyond the initial £10M. And much of the remaining £7M is conditional on Man Utd success... — Ed

Am I the only one.....
Am I the only person, who pre-odered the new shirt from the official website to not recieve it yet? Any other US-based fans in my predicament? If this keeps up I will be emailing the club directly.
Dylan DeLoretta, Honolulu, Hawaii  (12/08/05)

Not so bold - just an observation
Ed - I don't think it is bold to say that we are playing poorly at present and have done so since Christmas. Likewise, I don't think it is bold to say that I think our football is all physical effort with little thought.

Moyesy has money to spend and has not really done so effectively. We have missed out on several targets who would have added much needed flair to the team and it has been his decision not to go there for whatever reasons he has. Therefore, the buck stops with him.

He is also responsible for the tactics and having paid to watch the brave effort we put up on Tuesday, we were light-years behind on skill and flair. I got the feeling that if they wanted to then they could have scored another at any time. Physical effort is not enough.

If we should manage to get through (and on the evidence of last Tuesday and the fact that they now know how easily they can get down our left flank...), we could be in for a nasty surprise.

I love this club and it saddens me to see that yet again we have a missed opportunity. Kenwright should hang his head in shame...
Tom M, Wirral  (12/8/05)

... while instead he gushes effusivley at the simple fact that we are there, at the top table. No matter the fact that we shall be lucky to pick up some scraps. I was being a little coy with my sarky coment on your boldness. The viewpoint you expound is guaranteed to result in yet more accusations that this website, it's operators and many of its readers are negative beyond belief. Sadly, though, I must concur completely with what you say. This endless praise of effort and workrate in lieu of skill and fair will be the death of me.

But there is hope: We do have a Brazilian training with us... but he can't get a work permit 'til next season! Ah well... — Ed

Moyes is still the man for the job
I'm quite surprised at the criticism of Davie Moyes by some fans. If it was not for that one poor season, I don't think there would be a fan in the land who could slag him off. Moyes has to play 4-5-1 because of his resources. If he had the quality of Man Utd or Chelsea, I am sure he would not use this system.

I for one will get behind Moyes this season because I know the club is moving in the right direction despite a frustrating summer. If I do want to moan, it will be at Bill Kenwright for fobbing us off over the investment plans. Why for God's sake can't the club just issue a statement that the Fortress Sports Fund deal is dead??
Paul Coleman, Kettering  (12/8/05)

Coz that would epitomise values of truth, honesty, openness, transparency and clear business dealings... things which are relatively rare in the British business world — and virtually unheard of in the context of football. Remember, Knowledge is Power! [Who said that?] — Ed

James Vaughan
Surely you are not suggesting we should have put the pressure of playing in our biggest European game for two decades on a lad just turned 17!

I hope and am sure that James will turn into a good player for us but to throw him into the team when he has only played a few PL games would surely have overawed him.
Adam Carey, Ascot, Berks  (12/08/05)

Got to agree with you there, Adam, although I still have this nagging feeling he would have been a better option than lumping balls up to Beattie's head — Lyndon

Mr Jarvis - you are dead right!
Rob Jarvis from Burnley has hit the nail on the head several times. Moyes is Gordon Lee (aka the screamig skull) in diguise. I remember Lee selling Duncan McKenzie because of his work ethic and, low and behold, he sells Rooney!

Steve Sanders - The 4-5-1 formation you praise has resulted in us playing in relegation form since Christmas! Yes - if we had performed like this all season we would have been relegated. It is interesting that in the second half of each of the last three seasons we have had a serious form slump each time. I think it is because Moyes runs them ragged.

He is the manager and the buck stops with him. Our football is bland and we seem unable to score more than one goal. Nil satis nisi optimum? Not with Moyes.
Tom M, Wirral  (12/08/05)

I think any comparisons between the departures of Duncan McKenzie and Wayne Rooney are way off the mark... unless our Davie is intimidated by flair players and did not really like Rooney (despite his protestions to the contrary). Hmmm... just writing that down makes me wonder if there might actually be something in what you say: Why did Moyes not fight tooth and nail to hold on to Rooney? Is he that much of a realist? Surley a man of his determination and inner personal strength would have relished the prospect... but overriding considerations (club in administration?) may have held sway...

It is unfashionably negative to harbour doubts about David Moyes, and even worse to voice them... Bold stuff, Tom! — Ed

We're the example
I don't know if you've noticed but a lot of fans from other teams are hoping that their teams can replicate Everton's success this year. It's a testimony to how far we've come under David Moyes in that Villa, Spurs, Newcastle, Boro and Man City fans are looking to us and hoping they can achieve the same. I really believe we've taken a big step forward over the last three seasons despite the lack of serious squad strengthening.

I bet many a fan from other Premiership clubs watched the atmosphere in Goodison, the commitment of the players and true enthusiasm of the manager and chairman and wished it was their team on Tuesday. I just read the statistics for Everton’s Premiership results against Manchester Utd – they’re abysmal. We beat them last year and I firmly believe we’ll match them tomorrow despite the result.

Maybe not current England Internationals, but we have Martyn, Wright! Neville and Beattie who have played at the highest level for our country. That would be unheard of in the Walter Smith, Howard Kendall (last try), Mike Walker era. It’s only a matter of time before they’ll be joined by Hibbo. I hope that this season proves that the turbulent Premiership era for Everton is over and we’re back to mid-table or above. I’m looking forward to this season and it’s nice to see our whipping boys West Ham are back.
Daniel Parker, New York, US  (08/12/05)

They huffed and they puffed......
....and if they had played all night they would not have blown Villareal away!

Whilst my 500 mile round trip was worth it just to be there after a 35 year wait, this Everton team are so lacking in virtually every department that they have no chance of making any impact in Europe.

Your correspondent, Robert Jarvis, is spot on with his assessment of players, manager and tactics. Moyes has now spent over £30 milion during his tenure—nearly four times as much as Allardyce (under similar constaints) over the same period-and on current evidence only two signings, Cahill and Neville, are anywhere near the mark.

The Daily Mail desciption of a charmless ditherer is reflected in his teams l; you get nowt for effort if you lack the skill to score goals! Since last Christmas, with only the odd exception, we have played abysmally and I saw nothing in the pre-season or Euro games to encourage me that our failings had been addressed.

Carry on being hopeful by all means — what else can we do? But, be warned, the glass is half empty already, and the season proper ain`t started yet!
David Hall, Taunton  (12/08/05)

4-4-2 / 4-5-1
Lyndon,
I think you're wasting your time promoting 4-4-2 as opposed to 4-5-1; we don't have good enough players to be successful with it. We do have three central midfielders who can make 4-5-1 work: Neville, Arteta and Cahill. Don't forget: 4-5-1 got us 4th place.

It's not just Pistone who is a problem at left-back but Hibbert is very poor going forward; he is the worst passer of the the ball in the side. However, his defensive play is pretty good and he justifies his selection on that basis but we need a new right-back as well as left-back. Moyes has been linked with van der Meyde who would do the job on the left wing.

Where and how are we going to get a pacy striker of sufficient quality, that we can afford? Don't say Michael Owen, there's no way we could afford the fee never mind his wages.
Mike Squires, Wirral  (12/08/05)

I wasn't going to mention Owen, Mike — as you say, we couldn't afford him. :)   My reason for pushing 4-4-2 is precisely to illustrate the fact that we don't good have enough players, but, on the other hand, with Bent injured we don't have a fit enough striker right now to play 4-5-1. (And, in any case, could Moyes really leave his record signing on the bench?) I just find it incredible that we are a still massively under strength in key areas of the pitch. — Lyndon

Faith; IMWT
I am so glad Robert Jarvis is not in charge of hiring and firing at Everton or selecting the team as it's his kind of knee-jerk reaction that gets teams and clubs into trouble. The most stable and therefore successful clubs are the ones who show faith and loyalty. Moyes's tactics are what many people believe made last season's heroics possible (amongst other things) and you don't suddenly become bad overnight.

what people seem to forget that we were playing apparently the best passing team from Spain and to open the game up would have been footballing suicide. Also, if Bent wasn't fully fit, as I have read elsewhere, what realistic option did Moyes have?
Daniel  Ford, Newcastle  (12/08/05)

James Vaughan?

Aghhh!
I must admit I write in occasionally to this excellent website, but usually only when I get so hacked off with the negative comments I can't stand it.... so here I am again !!!

Lets be positive, we aren't Chelsea or Arsenal yet, but we've made huge strides in three years under Moyes. Tuesday night we didn't disgrace ourselves against a side that would have taken most of the Premiership teams apart, and I'm sorry to say their two goals were top drawer!

Neville, Krøldrup and Davies are excellent signings ... Beattie — for all the crap written about him — scores goals; since he's been with Everton, he's looking at a goal every other game when he plays. If he's on 20+ goals by the end of the season, we will all be happy... Lets not forget that NO-ONE in the Man Utd or Chelsea sides last year got near that total. (He's cerainly got more chance of scoring than Bent who I'd sell for £3M tomorrow and bring Nathan Ellington in) . It's going to take another couple of years to build this side... Let's stay with them and help not slag them off at every turn.

We don't have a prayer of winning the Premiership.... If we get a Uefa Cup spot it will be an excellent season... and whatever happens I'll still support them!

Off to take another Happy Pill Now!!
Rog Walker, Portsmouth  (12/08/05)

Negative? "We don't have a prayer of winning the Premiership." "He's got more chance of scoring than Bent who I'd sell for £3M tomorrow..." Welcome to the club! If Beattie scores 20+, it will be an absolute miracle. — Ed

Brede Haugeland
According to the Norwegian newspaper VG Davie Moyes was present at the Uefa Cup qualifier betwen Rhyl and Viking Stavanger in Wales yesterday. Apperantly Moysie was watching Brede Hangeland of Viking, who was on trial at Goodison a few months back. Stuart Pearce of Man City and representatives from Leeds United was also present at the game.
Kjetil Sørensen, Ålgård, Norway  (12.08.05)

Are you sure he wasn't just watching the match?

Media bias
Just a few observations. First, although disappointed about the other nights result, I feel there are some positives that can be taken. Neville looked a class act to me, a player who will flourish at Everton and be the club captain eventually. Beattie looks better but needs a partner up front. It would be a terrible shame if Moyes allowed caution to get in the way of Everton becoming a more expansive team this season. Playing 4-5-1 has had its day, apart from maybe being used in the most testing of away games.

My real problem though lies not with the team but the media, who continue to treat the club with barely concealed contempt. Here is a couple of recent examples. First, Mark Lawrenson predicts Everton will finish ninth in the Premiership this season. He also believes Man City will finish seventh and Spurs fifth. Can you believe that?! Have either of those clubs strengthened their squads more than us. This sort of nonsense is replicated by numerous other 'experts'. I can only assume that the press are so pissed off by Everton making them look the idiots that they really are last season, that their bitterness affects their objectivity.

It's also interesting how journos who once worked for the local press reveal their true colours when they move to a national paper. Paul Joyce, formerly of the Echo and Daily Post, wrote a typically demeaning report on the Villareal game, basically along the lines of 'Everton were totally outclassed and barely belonged to be playing in such exalted company'. This clown also predicts by the way that Liverpool will retain the Champions League this season. I don't think even that lot can be so lucky two seasons in row.

We may not finish fourth again this season but we'll do better than many predict, certainly if Moyes can sign a quality striker.
Gareth Hughes, Liverpool  (11/7/05)

Jamie Rowland
It always irritates me to read negative comments but even more so when there are 'throwaway' points in them which are incorrect. It makes me read the rest of the comment through a veil of bias!

For Jamie Rowland's information capital gains tax is only at 40% if you are an unincorporated body, generally a person and then only if your income is high enough. I'm sure most football clubs and I know this one in particular are not people they are limited companies. This means that the top tax rate is the higher corporation tax rate of 30% and this is only relevant if you are actually making a profit. Read the Accounts Jamie, we haven't made a profit for years and because of this we have significant accumulated losses and won't be paying tax for years. In any case this would be (hard) earned income, not capital, and so the rate of capital gains tax would be irrelevant. So - any net income would be just that since we wouldn't have to pay any tax.

Of course, its hard to escape the pertinent point made that we wouldn't earn as much for the same amount of effort as, say, Liverpool who apparently are much more televisually attractive to the masses. Anyway I hope we win everything, but that's because I am an optimist! Regards
Linda Heap, Southport  (11/08/05)

Ooops!

Jamie Rowland's post..
Jamie Rowland... nice informative piece, that must have taken you some time to put together. However, you seem to be missing a major point. It isn't all about the money should we qualify for the CL group stages... its the fact that we'd be there... amongst Europe's elite. There'd be a much more sense of 'achieving' something and building on the heroics of last season should we beat Villarreal and qualify. Sorry, you may already realise this, but its the first thought that jumped out at me after reading your post.+
Steven Astley, Wigan  (12/8/05)

Yes, that thought struck me when I was editing it. But to an extent it is now more about money than taking part or even winning. — Ed

Huge Innaccuracy in Blowing the European money myt
There is a huge innacuracy in this article, the TV money Everton would get is much higher than the amount that James Rowland states. The premise that it is the most fashinable clubs that get most TV money is not true, it is the teams who are in the country that generates the most TV revenues that get the most. Now we will get less cash becasue we have to split the pool for England 5 ways instead of the usual 4 but we'll still get a lot more than Olympiacos did last year. This details are in the last paragraph that James references in his article, maybe next time he'll read somethign all the way to the end before commenting ?

market pool, which is distributed according to the proportional value of each TV market represented by the clubs taking part, and is split among the number of teams participating from a given association.

In whom do we trust???
Firstly I would like to say how satisfied I was to see Howie's comments on the Heysel aftermath and the favourable treatment given to Liverpool by UEFA. This is exactly in acccord with my feelings and I know yours as well, Editor. Recognition of this was also given in that recent newpaper article. Before anyone says we should forget and move on, have Liverpool FC done that with Hillsborough? Now to the main point, Tuesday's game.

The match was lost because of one man, David Moyes. The players on the pitch did very well considering the constraints imposed on them by Moyes's tactics and team selection. Moyes should have been more adventurous and tried 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 from the start. There are four strikers to choose from including Vaughan but to just turn up with one on the field was downright stupid and asking to get beaten.

The first goal showed up Weir as an old man, far to slow. The goal stemmed from a soft shot which if we had a younger goalkeeper could have been saved. The goal showed that Martyn is really now too old. He was left flapping his hand about 4 feet off the deck when it was a ground shot, I ask you.

The second goal: People are blaming Pistone, but where was Weir, surely he should have been covering the centre.

Of the players on the pitch:-
Kilbane is not premiership quality.
McFadden isn't either.
Bent does a lot of running but can't score for toffee, not good enough.
Weir to old and easily outclassed as is Pistone.
Martyn now showing his age and is not agile enough.
Ferguson useful as a thirty minute battering ram, but otherwise, no.
The rest can make a decent nucleus of a squad.

It has already been mentioned that Moyes seems to place all on effort, I recall a past manager who was similar and didn't get the club anywhere - Gordon Lee!! In the article by Rob Fox, nowhere was there any mention of tactics, defense orientated, or the lack of any spirit of adventure, so his article was in my view flawed.

I have made the point in my previous mailbags regarding the tactics employed on the field and I see now some people are realising that perhaps Moyes is tactically inept. What is he going to do in the game against Man U. Pound to a penny it will be the same 4-5-1 and we will be battered, last season we beat them near the end 1-0 but I recall Rooney being somewhat unlucky. What about the return leg to Spain, again we need to win no bones about it; but you watch, out will come the 4-5-1. Moyes just seems incapable of anything else.

I will give him his due though for his loyalty to players he has signed and plays them week out week in, no matter how useless they are, such as Kilbane, Pistone, Weir, McFadden and Bent. Notice Weir was made club captain, does this mean Moyes will play him every week come what may, paired with either Yobo or Kroldrup but Yobo and Kroldrup will not get to play together, because that is how it looks. If Kroldrup was injured, why was he on the bench?

As to the transfer market, I have said in the past Moyes is a ditherer. In the interview he gave he more or less admitted this. His comment was he hated the transfer window because you had to make your mind up. He also admitted his lack of knowledge regarding foreign players. I think he also lacks any knowledge of premiership players. Look at the current rumour that he is tappng up a couple of Preston players, are they premiership quality or is Moyes gathering numbers for cheap cannon fodder? For example, Etuhu, Moyes signed him at Preston when he was the manager. What has happened in 3 years for this player to jump to the big league, and if he is that good how is it no other clubs are interested?

I think the shortcomings of our manager are begining to become more obvious and we are heading for mid table mediocrity or is it obscurity. I hope I am wrong.
Robert  Jarvis, Burnley  (11/08/05)

All that glitters
Nice work Jamie I feel more relaxed now about qualifying for the poisoned chalice, I still think aiming to qualify by league position is desirable but not to worry too much after that. Maybe this is the reason why DM and BK did'nt push the boat out if they knew the score. I guess Leeds never did their homework back then. Is the Uefa Cup worth busting a gut for? Things are never what they seem...
Eddy Gibbs, Brecon  (11/08/05)

All that glitters
Some great investigative work by Jamie Rowland in highlighting the corrupt racketeering that exists within Uefa and Europe's so called elite. The G14 have long been known for their cartel approach to the game and the Champions League is the closest we will get to a European Super League. The tournament is about preserving the status of Europe's elite, teams such as FC Porto, and Greece on the international scene deserve all the credit that they get in achieving huge success in the face of overwhelming odds. This rankles Uefa, G14, David Gill has been on record as saying that the elite members should be given a bye into the group stages, making the playing field even more one-sided. It's our game, we need to change it.
Peter Laing, liverpool  (11/8/05)

Villarreal 2nd Leg Tickets
I have just sent the mail below to the club. Your thoughts?

Once again the club has taken the easy way out, re ticketing. Once again they are going to come up against heavy criticism.

I understand the need for loyalty to be rewarded, that is why as a season ticket holder I am incensed by the latest Champions League ticket announcement.

I fully understand the constraints put on the club, when away ticket allocation is so low. I also believe that the policy of season ticket plus away ticket stubs, for Premiership games, rewards the most loyal of fans, those who travel home and away.

However it has been 10 years since Everton played a European away game, so how can you take away traveling into account.

Surely the fairest way to approach this game, was to undertake some form of season ticket lottery. Where 1,600 randomly issued season ticket/seat numbers are released. The holders of these tickets are given a timescale in which to claim their ticket. If all tickets are not claimed then the process is repeated until the full allocation is sold.

I would like someone from the club to tell me how we seem to be mismanaging the simple things like ticketing and how you think we can have confidence in the club when it comes to major issues like Transfers, finance and ground move.

I am at a loss to understand what benefits I get from being a loyal season ticket holder. I don't have to queue for a ticket each week, Oh yes and I get discount at the club shop!
Stuart Carlson, Newbugrh, Lancs  (11/08/05)

Methinks thou dost complain too much, Sire. Let me guess... you don't have twenty away stubs, do you? Your scheme is particularly problematic given the need for most people to make air-travel arrangements as well.

For once, the Club has done it right. There is nothing more appropriate in a situation such as this but to give the most loyal traveling fans first dibs. However, the club is always going to get stick from whichever part of the fanbase feels they are being unfairly excluded. As the CEO man said:

“Bearing in mind the size of our fan-base, it is, of course, disappointing that we have only been allocated 1,600 tickets for the return leg. However, I must point out that, initially, we were told that we would only be receiving 1,200 tickets, an allocation which Villarreal agreed to increase after we had stressed that demand would comfortably outstrip supply. In an ideal world, we would dearly love to be able to provide each and every supporter who wishes to watch David Moyes’ team play in Spain with a ticket; unfortunately, we cannot.”

This really says it all
To all you whingeing Toffees out there always complaining although we have just witnessed club history come true by our first ever Champions League match, have a look at what this poor Villa fan says and have a rethink...
Sverre Simen Hov, Oslo, Norway  (11/08/05)

Worried
I am worried already and hardly a ball has been kicked. I get so frustrated at the exciting players becoming available and us not capable or interested in signing any. There is Nakata but Bolton fancy him, there was Camara, Emre, Bellamy... I could go on. David Moyes, this season is your test. Please do not let us down with your negative football, take a chance with some flair players and bring back the entertaining football we used to have. Last season was amazing but we had no money or depth of squad. This season it seems we have money and a chance to add to the squad. Please take this opportunity, otherwise I can see us with our present squad back in a relegation battle.
Darren Findlay, yorkshire  (10/08/05)

You'll recall that David Moyes was interested and did make a genuine attempt to sign both Emre and Bellamy. We declined the former because of his wage expectations and lost out on the latter because he didn't like Moyes's tough disciplinary stance. And though his summer has been enormously frustrating, I don't think a relegation battle is on the cards for this season. We are at least better than that.

Huff and Puff!
We have a team full of tryers, what Cantona described as 'water carriers', and if we don't start buying flair and pace we are going to struggle in the Premiership, never mind Europe.

I'm getting sick of hoping we can overpower teams rather than skillfully take them apart. I know we need different players to do that but surely there should be some signs that we are striving to play with some skill and pace. Sometimes you have to take a chance on a players character, a good manager 'manages' that kind of thing. Why not take a chance on Koumas...whatever you think of him he's more skillful than any player we have.

Camara went to Wigan, loads of pace and tore us apart at Southampton last year... he would be a decent partner for Beattie or would be a bigger threat as the lone striker in the dreaded 4-5-1. I know its all about opinions, but these two are just examples of players we could easily have got, who would have added flair and pace and numbers to our small and limited squad.

We seem to spend lots of money on limited players and I just don't get it. It is possible to build a team that includes skill and pace...just look at Villarreal...they have spent a lot less on players than us and I would be surprised if their wage budget was any more than 70 percent of ours.

Trouble with all this is...you need a manager who wants to play attacking football and buy skillful, fast players!!
Mike Price, Songkhla,Thailand  ()

Lovely Piece...
Just wanted to point out what a wondeful piece of journalism Henry Winter's article is. Having been at the game last night, reading that today has given me a bit of hope for the second leg. It's so nice to see that one journalist can sympathise with our bitterness and clearly has affection for our club. Nice one, a definite read for all those down after last night.
Duncan M-S, Leeds  (10/08/05)

Indeed. It just shows that perceptions which come through on here about journalistic bias against Everton are somewhat misplaced, to say the least. — Ed

Post Match Thoughts
There are a number of lessons we can take from the game, the first being that Kilbane and Pistone are probably the worst players on the park in an Everton line-up. The left side is our obvious weak link; apart from left-back we dont have a half-decent left-winger — Kilbane and McFadden are both wasters who don't cut it in the Premiership. And it is obvious now that Beattie would thrive with someone like Robbie Keane up-front alongside him. He does not have the pace required to do the lone striker's job.

There were a few positives though, one of which being the acquisition of Phil Neville. He proved he can do a job for us; he made life difficult (sort of) for Riquelme and he showed he has excellent passing capabilities. Simon Davies also proved he wants to play for the shirt. The last two times I have seen him (against Udinese and last night) I've been impressed. The guy covers every blade of grass on the pitch.

We have a bit of a mountain to climb in Spain a fortnight from now but we can do it. COME ON YOU BLUES!!
Sean Gilbertson, Liverpool  (10/08/05)

Ferrari
I note with interest we've been linked with a move for Ferrari again now that Roma's transfer embargo has been lifted. We're crying out for a left back, although, 2nd goal aside, I didn't think Pistone had a bad game last night. Dacourt and Montella would also be good additions if they are desperate for money.

I thought the players really gave it a good go last night; although we came up short, I thought they were magnificent. It's still obvious we need a striker; Bent and Ferguson looked out of place at this level.
Danny Broderick, London  (10/08)

The game
I think we played ok last night, plenty of huff and puff but not much in the way of quality play. Too much long ball as always, Beattie looks very uncomfortable as a lone striker and needs a quick partner to play alongside. I wouldn't blame anyone for the defeat as we were beaten by two clinical finishes. But hey, thats European football for you.

The problem was that we never got up the wing too much in the game. In the first 30 mins, Pistone and Kilbane crossed in some very dangerous balls but after the first goal we stopped working the ball wide and just went for the hoof down the middle. I lost count how many times Davies, Hibbert, Kilbane and Pistone lost possession by coming inside and running into a wall of yellow shirts.

With that team of ours I think we did well not to get thrashed, Krøldrup not playing was a big blow as Davie Weir gets slower every year. If we play 4-5-1 Bent simply has to play up front, I know Beattie scored but he seems lumbering at times.

Buying a few more players would be a nice dream but totally unrealistic considering we're still skint. Anyway so what if we go out of the CL? At least we can concentrate on the league. Speaking of which, bring on United this weekend. This is great I'm enjoying every minute of it, win, lose or draw.
Stephen Burton, Belfast  (10/08/05)

Match Report
Having read the match report posted on ToffeeWeb I find it hard to believe that Lyndon Llyod actually watched the game. Firstly I would find it hard to give Pistone a mark out of 10 rather than the 7 he game him. I assumed that to be a Premiership footballer it is customary to be able to control the ball? Obviuosly not in Alessandro's case. His positional sense, ability to read the game, andhis distribution were all way below the standard required for a player at a club of our stature.

I also found it questionable to award Tim Cahill MoM as, for a much effort and hard work he put in, he hardly touched the ball as it was constantly flung over his head!
Harry Glynn, Southampton  (10/08/05)

It's all about perceptions...

Alternative View on 4-5-1
Got back too late last night to do anything but hit the hay. So I thought I would read the mailbag over tea and toast this morning...

It was another night when I was proud to be an Evertonian, both in terms of the crowd and the players on the pitch, but I'm frustrated with the carping at Pistone. Put it this way, he wasn't at fault for either goal, and was up and down the line like an engine, putting in some great crosses. He put in one poor cross and one misplaced cross-field ball and he was howled at!! I remember a number of other players doing similar things last night with no similar level of 'mad dog' criticism. It's Unsworth all over again. For some reason the supporters seem to need a scapegoat; a few seasons ago it was Rhino and now its Pistone.

However desperate Moyes was for a left-back, he doesn't strike me as the kind of manager who panic buys (in fact he gets a lot of criticism on this site for being too conservative). So, between Moyes's judgement and what I see on the pitch, I for one will not be getting on his back.

On a seperate point, the background criticism of 4-5-1 never seems to go away. I appreciate this takes away some of our ability to score goals and last night made it clear that it doesn't suit Beattie (albeit I thought he had his best game in a Blue shirt and ran his socks off). But I would like to offer an alternative perspective, especially in regard to last night. I think if we had played anything other than 4-5-1 last night we would have been beaten by more goals.

Villarreal are clearly what we were told (an excellent passing side) and even packing our midfield as we do, we were cut open too many times and (obviously) for their goals. Therefore, don't expect a change in tactics for the second leg. 4-4-2 would help us get more balls into the box and actually have someone there to collect them, but I think it will leave us badly exposed in the middle of the field and play into Villarreal's hands. Having said that, I hope I am wrong and we play 4-3-3 and stuff them 3-0, but I think not.

Now on to Saturday and the start of our next qualifying campaign.
Steve Guy, Harrogate  (10/08/05)

That probably encapsulates Moyes's thinking on which formation to play. At the end of the day, he's a defender who favours hard work over flair, and who seeks to limit the opposition goal-tally, rather than blow them away Kevin Keegan style. Ooops.... I just lost my mind! — Ed

Put mistakes right
We must put mistakes behind us now before its too late.

Mistake 1: making Weir the captain; Kroldrup and Yobo must start in middle but the problem being how many times is the club captain going to be left on the bench?

Mistake 2 is the favoured 4-5-1, it gets us very limited chances upfront. We pray for deadball situations and its very boring to watch.

Mistake 3: not buying a striker. Beattie can score goals; people get on his back about not holding the ball up and his first touch but it must be hard when it's only him surrounded by four defenders.

Mistake 4: McFadden; he always hits the ball at defenders' legs then runs around them; someone should tell him the ball is supposed to go with him — not stay with them.
Doug , Runcorn  (10/08/05)

Krøldrup was injured; Moyes probably had no intention of playing him, despite his presence on the seven-man bench (thus our entire squad of available senior players was on duty last night... worrying!). Weir is "Club" captain, not necessarily "Team" captain. It is in part a ceremonial honour (don't ask me why; the whole concept is silly beyond belief) but it apparently has zero influence on whether Weir plays. — Ed

Relegation Form Bollocks
Last night was not relegation form; last night was a gutsy, hard-working performance in Europe against a quality team who rolled over the best teams that Spain could produce last season. If (and its a big if) we could motivate ourselves to produce performances like that week in week out then we would cut through 85% of Premiership teams.

How can you say Arteta looked disinterested? He was, after maybe Neville & Cahill, our most combative and committed player which surprised me a little, none of the namby pamby foreign-player stuff I expected from him. I say thank your lucky stars.......we could have had Andy Johnson partnering Beattie.

Its not the end of the world and I am glad that we didn't gamble millions (if we had it) on a two-legged match against very dangerous opposition. How can you say for sure if we had Parker, Emre, Owen, Forssell & van der Meyde that they would gel into a team rather than play as individuals and get beaten anyway? To include those players you would have to rip out all that is arguably good about the current team - there would be no space for Cahill and Arteta for starters and that would be a very big mistake.

All those big egos that everyone wants would probably have thrived last night but when it comes to mid-December and we're playing Wigan, Sunderland or even Macclesfield in the FA Cup for that matter and its pissing down on their lucious long hair (or dreadlocks) and their white boots are stuck in a foot & a half of mud, can they be relied upon then??
Steve Hopkins, Kent  (10/08/05)

Learning Curve
So we all went to the game, the omens were bad as other people were in our seats, however the atmosphere was electric and so was the Blues' opening. Unfortuntately you just don't play that way in Europe's CL and we were caught with a typical counter punch. Got back on terms and then seemed to think half-time had arrived and took another on the chin.

As I sat there I wondered if Phil Neville was wondering just what the hell he was doing on the Goodison grass as he was the only European type player we had and no matter his promptings we had no other players to respond in a like manner.

Oh for a player like their No 19 Senna. We were warned about Riquelme who was so-so but Senna ran the show. We can still harbour thoughts of miracles and who knows but I think we are bound for the Uefa Cup and it may be no bad thing as Moyes and the players go on a Euro learning curve. It can only stand us in good stead in terms of preparation, style of play, and the type of player that needs to be attracted to the club.

I enjoyed the game in terms of experience at this level and fervently hope that the club will be sufficiently motivated to give us many more nights like this —albeit with a happier outcome.
Ken Davies, Buckley  (10/08/05)

We are Family
Well we are, aren't we? I for one was very proud tonite of all the fans that engaged in vocal harmony. For 35 mins we were great, and then I think everybody realised our limitations. Midfield went to sleep and they score. They are not world-beaters and we did not get any rub of the green.

Typical really, however, we deserve more, we are Everton and always will be. I would like to thank all at ToffeeWeb for the build up to the game, it was kept realistic and we are not moaning bastards on this site as some would say. Most of the articles posted on here are honest and to the point, long may that remain.

Anyway, I take my comments back about the Pissed One; he did not play too badly and I welcome Phil Neville, who has had the guts to come to EFC and say he wants to play for us and he did.

Long season ahead, Blues. Do Not Ever Change!

PS Nugent at PNE is a good buy for us given the present state of the game we love.
Steve Lyth, Ellesmere Port  (09/08/05)

Gutted.... but well done lads.
2-0 in Spain will do ........ in my dreams.

Gutted about the result but not by the performance. I expected to be really low but am not...we really gave a good bash.

We're far from out of it. It's got to be all out for it in a fortnight as we have nothing to lose. I'd like to see Dunc on from the startand play 4-4-2... try and get more width and low crosses drilled from the touchline mixed with a bit of English long-ball and ping-pong.

However we have to keep our spirits up for another bash at ManUtd on Saturday lunchtime. COYB
Paul Kellett, Parbold Lancs  (10/08/05)

Ping-pong?

The Good, the bad and the ...
Just back from the Villarreal game; some good things and some bad things — and some unspeakables.

I'll be first to hold my hand up and say Phil Neville did a job for us tonight, held the Carsley role very well with some decisive passes inch-perfect to intended recipients.

Second, Simon Davies ran non-stop and chased everything; looks the sort of player proud to wear the shirt — as did Arteta and to some extent Tim Cahill.

The bad, Beattie's first touch still looks poor and you wonder if a more decisive formation of 4-4-2 would work wonders for him or if a striker with a first touch and clinical finish would be the answer. Bent also guilty of poor finishing but works his socks off.

And finally the plain unspeakable Pistone, I so longed for Steve Watson to be offered a squad place as left-back this season as he performed the role superbly at the end of last season and simply puts Pistone and Naysmith to shame. A poor decision, methinks, that will be exploited by teams with fast wingers such as Villarreal tonight.

On the whole I think the game was lost purely through poor positional play and finishing from Everton rather than being outclassed from start to finish. Water under the bridge now but this could have been avoided with hindsight, but then again its easy to say that after the event, isnt it?
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (09/08/05)

End of Champions League dream
So it's the Uefa Cup next! How many attempts on target on the Villareall goal were there? Was it one, two, or maybe at best four? What did David Moyes spend the close season doing, buying a striker who can actually get the ball in the back of the net? Sadly, no.

There is one simple reality in football: the idea is the team that gets the ball in the back of the net wins. Everton absolutely need a consistent goal scorer who scores minimum 20 a season, it's as simple as that! Yes, I know Everton played well, etc. The trouble is that they lost and success means getting results indicating goals scored.

I listened to Kenwright saying that this game is the most important in 20 years, so how about buying a goal scorer; there aren't any in this side. I think we are heading for negative goal difference once more.

We spent the whole of last season gaining the opportunity to be in the Champions League, we've blown millions because we do not have a player who can actually put the ball in the back of the net.

Seriously, how many on-target attempts on goal did everton have? How many even off-target? Consistent goal scorer required, now.
Andrew Fairfoull, england  (9/08/2005)

Hmmm... I think you may have a good point. — Ed

It augurs badly for the future
Having negotiated the tickets fiasco and obtained a ticket for the main stand, I sat and watched in utter disbelief as our manager of the year persisted for the bulk of the game with the 4-5-1 tactics that have caused us to win less than a handful of games in the past 8 months.

If he had done his homework he would have known that Barbarosa is unsteady when attcked from the flanks and 4-4-2, with us at home might have reaped dividends.

I am beginning to get frustrated with Moyes. He seems to be tactically inept and his dabblings in the transfer market are decidedly mixed. The players tonight were poor, apart from Phil Neville and Martyn. Pistone showed what a bad decision Moyes made to re-sign him. Weir over Krøldrup - why? Up front, Beattie continues to look ponderous (although, if he was supported from the flanks and with a twin striker, then he might come good). Arteta seemed disnterested and Cahill was a headless chicken. Kilbane was... Kilbane.

It is disappointing because you could sense around the ground how much the fans wanted it. Unless Davie stops dithering, we could be in for a long, hard season. We are in relegation form and pre-season and tonight did nothing to stop the rot.
Tom M, wirral  (09/08/05)

It's all about strength in depth... or lack thereof because we didn't sign enough players before the deadline. Krøldrup was injured and Weir was the only alternative; Bent probably wasn't fit enough to play 90 minutes but I think Moyes would have played 4-5-1 anyway. The biggest irony was that we were better with a five-man midfield than when we had three up front. Confused? I am — Lyndon

Before the 'told ya so's start up...
Just got in from the game (me back's killin' me... and I don't mean Pistone!!). Anyway... the better team won on the night, but only by one goal. If Moyesey goes for broke in Spain, who says we can't get back into the game? Killa at left back; Vaughan (for his pace) on the wing; drop either Arteta or Cahill (both were not at the races tonight); and start with both Ferguson and Beattie.

In midfield: Neville (by far the best midfielder tonight for us), Davies, Vaughan, Cahill; defence: Hibbert, Killa, Krøldrup, Yobo; and any goalie ya want (coz Martyn did not cover himself in glory tonight!) so 4-4-2 which could easily change to 4-3-3, and after we go into a 2-0 lead revert to 5-4-1.

Look boys, the bottom line is, we're still in Europe whatever happens and, if we learn the lessons, who knows how far we can go in the Uefa Cup (coz there ain't many in that cup who'd live with Villarreal either)!

'We're still all on a European tour, a European tour, a European tour'...(fuckin' 'ell, these painkillers are great....)
Tommy G, Aintree  (09/08/05)

You're Up
All hail the lads, listened to it on the radio and it sounded as though they played well. Positives are that Beattie is getting his goal-scoring for the season going and Phil Neville was MOTM! Great atmosphere, the crowd did us proud. We're back, didn't get the hammering I expected and let's hope this isn't a once in 20 years affair! We're not done in Europe yet even if we lose the away leg. The funny thing was we fell apart after we split up the 4-5-1 formation I've been whinging so much about. Now let's behave in Spain and knock the cheating bastards out.
Daniel Parker, New York, US  (09/08/05)

Did Us Proud
I felt the lads did us proud tonight and we shouldn't be too critical. Sure we made some mistakes but then so did they; they just had that something extra (va va voom maybe) that comes from playing regular Uefa Cup football.

I thought Neville looked excellent; his distribution was intelligent and his presence calming. It may be just me but he just seemed that bit of class above most (not world-class mind you). I also felt Beattie looked interested & on the whole threatening; some of his touches and lay-offs created openings and I was more than disapointed to see him replaced by Bent and Dunc.

All-in-all, the result was not what we hoped for but possibly a little better than expected; they are definately a class team.

I hate to moan after a great team effort but I'm really pissed off with James McFadden, he was laughing and joking with someone in the crowd whilst waiting on the touchline to come on (surely he should have had other things on his mind???) and he was the first one down the tunnel at the end. I was really disapointed with his attitude & sadly can't see him having much of a future here. Walter would surely have had him swinging from a peg by now with a bat wrapped round his head??

Cahill, Arteta, Davies, Kilbane & Neville - The new dogs of war with a touch more class me thinks (no offence, Pieman!).
Steve Hopkins, Kent  (09/08/05)

Neville
Just returned home from the game; while obviously disappointed with the result, I must comment on the performance of Phil Neville. It has to be one of the best debut's I have seen in 30 years of following Everton. It has given me confidence that the season may not be a disaster, though Davie I hope you have seen that we need a STRIKER and a BLOODY LEFT BACK!

Well done Neville; what was it like not having P on your shirt after all these years?
Mark Lyth, Netherton  (09/08/05)

A Lot to Shout About
Great match; dodgy side are Villarreal — need a good ref there. Fans went a bit quiet. After 20 years in the wilderness they should be shouting their balls off. A good performance from the debut boys as well as the old uns. Cahill giving 200% and more as usual. We were very, very unlucky.
Mike , Wirral  (9/8/05)

All ready!!!!!
Well, I am just about to set off for the match, I have my ticket and my new Everton shirt. I cannot wait for kick off, even if I am shitting myself. I am just hoping that the team can do themselves justice and win the game. I would have been feeling better if we would have had a few more new faces in the squad, but we haven't!! So off I go to my beloved Everton and "please God be kind to us tonight". Come on you blue boys!
Jim , North Wales  (9/8/05)

Give 'em a shout for all of those fans who can't be there tonight, Jim!

'Pat' on hot bricks
I do want to watch it... I don't want to watch it... I am so keyed up I'm like a cat on hot bricks!! The tension I feel is worse than playing Liverpool, and that's saying something!!! This over-hot weather is better suited to the Spaniards, they are used to running around in heat... why doesn't it rain!!! Can't wait really but if we don't put out a good performance the media and the pundits and the Liverpool supporters will all be having a go at us tomorrow. That's not what I am really worried about.. just for once I'd like to see my beloved Blues shine!!
Patricia Beesley, Carmarthen  (09/08/05)

Fortune favours the brave
Let's enjoy the moment; personally, can't wait for tonight. I'm sure of one thing: the FANS will do us proud. Let's hope the team does the same. Prediction 1-0, drunken in the second half. Come on you Blues!
Dave Kelly, Leyland  (9/8/05)

4-5-1
This will be the formation that took us to 4th then? The one '...we hoped we had seen the back of...'? Who is this 'we' to which you refer? You are worse than my dad!

Your site is well informed and thorough but, glass half-empty or what? Appreciate your hearts are in the right place but it strikes me that any praise is so grudging.

The world is full of people that'll have a go at our team - why are you guys at the head of the queue?

Frustrated blue.
Steve Sanders, Liverpool  (9/8/05)

I suppose 'we' have been a bit hard on 4-5-1 recently. Last season's achievement was brilliant, but the football was sometimes painful to watch. The formation we play is a large part of that. School of Science it ain't by any means (ask yer Dad...).

Everton fans with longer memories generally yearn to see their teams in Royal Blue playing high-quality football with some flair. And Everton fans have a tradition of critical appraisal befitting the Club's motto: Nothing but the best is good enough. Sorry, but that's how we see ourselves and that's what we strive for in our team. — Editor

Tonight's game
Being a 29-year-old fan who has never really seen his beloved blues play in European football (too young in the 80's and didn't get a chance in the 90's), I can't wait to finish work today and get the beers in for a night in front of ITV2.

Living in the south, and having a son under 1 means I don't get to as many games as I should. I normally have to rely on Sky to see a game and we all know who usually ends up on there, so the fact that this one is on a Tuesday, Champions League day, and we are playing is fantastic!

I admit I am getting more nervy as the day goes on but it seems the Spanish fans feel the same way about their team playing ours as we do playing theirs. Come on boys, we are all behind you!
Adam Carey, Ascot, Berkshire  (09/08/05)

Spurs Spending
What Bjorn doesn't show is how much Spurs is paying these players over the life of their contracts. This may affect the argument slightly (or may not as I have no idea what they are being paid and really don't care). Paying £6M for Beattie and then paying him £30k a week for 4½ years is the same as getting him for nothing but paying him £55k/week. Beattie for nothing — now theres a good deal!?
Ian Ridley, Caterham  (09/08/05)

Fear and Trepidation
Anyone else bricking it about tonight? God I love being a blue!
Richard , Hemel H  (09/08/2005)

Sounds about right! — Ed

Jones & Jones?
I remember watching Everton play in 1945, I also remember T JONES and T G JONES playing. I am told that this is untrue. Can you help?
Oswald Higgot, Lower Tidmarsh  (8/8/05)

A player named T Jones played for the club between 1905 and 1910 but I don't think that's who you mean...

The great Tommy E Jones and the equally great Tommy G Jones never did play together for Everton. While their careers did overlap at Everton between January 1948 and April 1950 T G Jones played through December 1949 but T E Jones did not play for Everton before Sept 1950 and was a regular throughout the 1950s.

Hope this helps... — Ed

New kit
OK, I've probably missed something here along the way, so can someone please explain to me why Everton have released a new kit this season? Unless I'm mistaken this is the fourth kit change in as many years. Am I the only one who finds this outrageous?

Why is there a need for a new home and away kit just a year after the deal with Umbro came into existance? I can understand maybe the home kit or the away kit being changed but the two at once is just too much.

We're being ripped off there's no two ways about it.
Paul Kish, Adelaide, Australia  (09/08/05)

Paul, the replica kit is all about making money from the punters who like to wear their club's colours. It's a simple matter of commercial expediency to start changing your kit every year — that's how you maximize income, which is exactly what Everton need to do as a club if they are to progress. But you knew that, surely

On the other hand, if you think you are being ripped off, then you have to make the decision: do you need to buy a replica shirt every year? Do you really even need to wear a replica shirt at all? Does it make you into a better Evertonian? — Editor

'Good on yer Rob'
Some time, when I get over to England next, I'd like to buy Rob a beer. I reckon his analysis is 'on the nail'.

Just for the record - my view is that Souness has never been much of a manager and never will be. On the other hand, Moysee has all the necessary qualities and with experience is likely to develop into one of the best of all time.
Bob Parrington, Adelaide, Australia  (09/08/05)

5 in midfield
Got to say I'm getting very tired of Evertonians whinging on about Moyesy playing 5 in midfield. Moyes has performed a miracle with a ragbag squad. We don't have high profile international players - we need men behind the ball. And apart from anything it's a formation used for years by successful clubs in Europe. Deportivo La Coruna destroyed Real Madrid in the Spanish Cup Final in 2002 and played several seasons in the Champions League, getting to the semis, with one man upfront and it was great to watch.

So please - shut up. Or maybe you'd rather we played 4-4-2 and were engaged in a relegation struggle?
Nick West, London  (09/08/05)

Correct, Moyes did perform a miracle with a ragbag squad last season. and the 4-5-1 formation was highly successful for a number of games until it was rumbled by opposition teams. The point here, Nick, is that ragbag squad should have seen more than three new faces arrive this summer and should, at the very least, have seen the addition of another striker so that we aren't relying on more miracles. It would be nice not to have to pray for good fortune and the odd goal for once!

4-5-1 is regularly employed in European competition away from home by passing sides with pacey strikers that counter-attacker quickly. It's all about having the right players — Deportivo may have had them; sadly, Everton do not — Lyndon

Qualifier
Shitting meself about the game tomorrow.
Sean Gilbertson, Liverpool  (09/08/05)

I don't think you're alone, Sean! — Lyndon

Good job, Rob Fox!
Well-written piece on the supremely practical Manager of the Year, David Moyes. Nice to see that someone out there appreciates what Moyes has done and is trying to do for the future.
Desmond Prosper, Lancaster  (8//8/05)

Cautious Optimism
I shall be glued to the tv tomorrow night hoping and praying for the right result.

My problem is this: What are the positive forward-looking realistic objectives of the club? Nobody from EFC has stated what we are going to achieve this season, seriously I would love to know where we are headed. This is what I believe EFC should aim for this season:
1. Top three finish in the Premiership
2. A creditable run in the Champions League, not the Uefa Cup
3. Silverware
All the above can be achieved with committment and determination. Regarding future achievements EFC is silent,why? EFC should aim for the stars, look at last season!
Andrew Fairfoull, England  (8/8/2005)

Your needs simply astound me. Why would EFC enter a competition if they did not at least relish the possibility of winning it? Of course nobody from EFC (or from anywhere else) can state what we are going to achieve this season. Noboby knows! That's why we play the games... That's why Everton exists. Ask David Moyes and he will tell you the objective: to win every game. — Editor

Spurs, the under-spenders
In today's main article, Rob Fox argued that Moyes can say that Spurs have spent a lot more than Everton have on players this close season. Well, I beg to differ. Here is their spending list:

• Teemu Tainio - Free
• Tom Huddlestone - £1.5M
• Paul Stalteri - Free
• Wayne Routhledge - £2m
• Aaron Lennon - £1M
• Edgar Davids - Free
• TOTAL: £4.5M

London-centric or Manc-centric press?
Picking up on the London-centric press comment, did anybody else notice in the Guardian 2005 Season booklet out today the number of ManUre player's names on the boots on the cover? 4 out of 5 if you're interested. My letter of complaint to the paper when I first saw this in an advert last week was of course ignored by the editor. On reading the Everton page in the booklet itself the anti-Blues theme continues with a smartarse remark from somebody called Shankly which must be at least 35 years old. Similar 'humorous'comments on all the other clubs are,in the main, positive and are all certainly more recent. I know, even if I'm not paranoid they're still behind me !
Rob Williamson, Sheffield  (8/8/05)

Not seen that; can't comment. I would say that we are bound to read stuff about Everton with way more emotion and sensitivity than reading something about, say, The Baggies. But when it comes to focus and bias, the biggest, best performing teams will always receive the most attention. That's just the way it is and no amount of sad carping from Evertonians is going to change it. Compare the treatment of Leeds a few years ago and Leeds now... — Ed

New Hope
I am looking forward to beating Villarreal tomorrow — they are no great shakes, for heavens sake; why can't Evertonians be more positive? This is the beginning for Everton. Forget Kenwright and his cronies; remember where was he when Agent Johnson was about, he sure kept his mouth shut then.

The club has moved forward; let's get behind the team show those Liverpool bastards that we ARE THE BEST SUPPORTERS. I know the Club lets us down but they can never say that the fans have let them down. Lets bring the house down on Tuesday and beat the Spanish ladies 3-0.
Steve Sweeney, Prescot  (08/08/05)

Group huddle, team scream, punch the air and away we go!!!

Europe or Bust?
Great analysis of the situation in the 'real world' by Rob Fox (Tunnel Vision); I agree totally.

Will we beat Villarreal? Probably NOT... and that will give all the doubters ammunition to shoot us down as being way out of our (Champions?) league. Personally I don't care; finishing 4th last season has given me enough pride in our team to last a few seasons yet.

European football is critical to bring in the €’s, but to me another top-6 finish in the Premiership this coming season is far more important. We cannot realistically compete with the English big three; but being the best of the rest domestically is something worth striving for.

So, if we do lose (and end up in the Uefa Cup), let’s not get despondent and start a lynch mob; let's get behind our team towards another season were people admire what we have achieved with limited resources. If the only trophy we get next season is DM as Manager of the Year (again!), that’s good enough for me.
Colin Evans, Berks, UK  (08/08/05)

Good comments, although I can't agree on one 4th-place finish being good for a few more seasons yet. To finish next May in the European places is vital for sustained progess. If we yo-yo again into the lower half (or worse!), that will really put Moyes's abilities into critical focus (or worse!!). Everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten that we finished 17th, just avoiding relagation with our lowest ever points total not that long ago... and Moyes was the manager! Oh sorry... there I go again with ny negative realism. Shoot me now, somebody! — Editor

Re: Tunnel Vision
Just like to say well done to Rob Fox for writing the brilliant "Tunnel Vision" column. Its refreshing to read someone who has a calm and rational perspective on the "coming's and going's" at our club over the summer. Its important that ToffeeWeb continues to counter-balance the Londoncentric (sorry is that a word?) national media who seem to be only interested if they can critisise us. Keep up the good work ToffeeWeb.
Simon Gilmovitch, Glasgow  (8/8/05)

Thanks... although I do not subscribe to that theory. When Everton generate worthwhile news, they write about us in a positive way. — Ed

Why's everyone worried?
OK, so we lost 5-0 to a Turkish team, there was no excuse for that, but why are people worried about Villarreal? The Liga is good but is it better than the Premiership? The Spanish Armada was all about flair and no substance and we saw them off. Forlan might be a success in Spain, but the Premiership was a harder league for him; Zidane's reputation is only intact because he avoided the Prem. Villarreal finished third and so did Man Utd here. Man Utd didn't beat us in the league last season and Villarreal aren't as good as Man Utd. Let's face it, Sally Gunnell (Forlan) is a Man Utd reject, so who should be worried?
Martin Cornforth, Liverpool, UK  (08/08/2005)

Impeccable logic! — Ed

Rob Fox editorial
Not much to say other than 'Right on'
Chris Milton, Canada  (08/08/05)

Owen Home
Here's a totally unreliable made up rumour I'm inventing. Owen is waiting to see what happens with Villarreal on Tuesday before signing for us and so getting his wish to play in the Champions League. If not, the ugly head of Robbie Savage begins to loom large.
Paul Lowrie, Barcelona  (08/08/05)

Re: Simply Red
1. He’s gone now so I don’t give a fuck about him.
2. Nice to see Rooney the ‘scouser’ (I use that term loosely) still having dealings with the scum newspaper.
Adam Bennett, Liverpool  (08/08/05)

1. But Alan Stubbs says that Rooney is still an avid Evertonian; I can see how that would be hard to deal with...
2. And won't it be pretty hard for him too stop being a scouser? Circulation of The Sun post-Hillsbrough tanked in Liverpool... but it did not go to zero. In fact, trashy tabloid journalism is pretty rampant in all areas of the UK, I would say. It's probably a chav thing... — Ed

Striker problems
I more or less agreed with the excellent Rob Fox article. Our manager is very careful about a player's character and ability to comply with the Everton work ethic. I do feel though, that DM seems more comfortable dealing with the spirited, workaholic, more limited type of player. He seems to relate to defenders and workmanlike midfielders, players very similar to what he was like in his playing days. However, his inability to identify or relate to a 'flair' player or a fast, skilfull striker who actually scores on a semi-regular basis is likely to prevent us moving forward.

His dealings with strikers is what concerns me the most. I agree that our squad has strengthened overall, but the fact that he thought Beattie a top striker worth over £6M, his poor treatment of our only pacy striker Marcus Bent, and the lack of pace, sharpness and 'flair' at the sharp end of our team is glaringly obvious. It's almost as if he has something against players who have natural skill and pace, like they haven't worked hard enough for what they have. Even Beattie was known for being a limited player, but workmanlike, made the most of limited natural ability etc.

To move forward and to play attractive football we need natural ability and, for Gods sake, PACE.
Mike  Price, Songkhla,Thailand  (8/8/05)

It goes without saying that goalscoring is a critcal facet of the game, and one area where we continue to be weak. You may have a good point about what Moyes knows best being defence, but I don't want to say anything more as it is now time to get behind him and the team. — Ed

Legend
Great comments from Howard Kendall, an absolute true blue legend!
Rich Williams, New Canaan  (7/8/05)

Yes, it's ancient history in many ways, but we should never forget how creully disproprotionate the punishment turned out to be, which team suffered the most, and which team waltzed straight back in as soon as the ban was lifted. Bitter? Damned right I am! — Ed

Gavin, well done.
It shows you must be listening too...

You actually managed to post a message that was a decent and valid point that contained no 'ranting' or moaning.
Steven Astley, Wigan  (7/8/05)

Haha.. I shouldn't have allowed this based on earlier edicts... but it gave me a good laugh. — Ed

The Editor is a miserable bastard
You miserable bastard, Michael! There's being a realist and then there is being almost arrogantly negative. I know you must get fed up of people telling you fellas to lighten up a bit and I think you do a fantastic job of holding Everton FC to account and tempering supporter hysteria, but were your responses to Bob Roberts really necessary? Or did you just use it as an excuse to form a clever, if a little facetious, dialogical article?!

I have to say, I think you're a brilliant Editor and ToffeeWeb is the best website on the internet. I just think that if three or four years ago during the dark days of Walter's Wanderers someone had told you that in 2005 Everton would have a Champions League qualifier having beaten Liverpool to the 4th Champions League spot and that they would have the LMA's Manger of the Year, you'd have thought Beadle was in town.

Surely, in spite of the blatant shortcomings of this wonderful club, we should allow ourselves to be a little excited? We're going in the right direction and at a reasonable pace too. All the best,
Peter Foster, Sydney, Australia  (7/8/05)

Well, thanks for that mixed compliment, Peter. Perhaps I am plagued by a dark disposition that reacts disproportionately to the unbridled confidence and gushing expectation of others. But, since you have provided me with even more ammo... you're next!

Your post includes the commonly used arguement which begins: "If someone had told you 4 years ago that..." etc etc. This is a new variant on the other one we have seen far too much of recently: "Wouldn't you have taken 4th place at the beginning of the season?" Both are utterly meaningless concepts. When are people going to understand that, no matter how hard you try and how smart you are, you cannot predict the future? Or am I being too much of a realist again??? — Editor

Ticket Olive Branch
Not sure how people would respond to this having paid full whack for a ticket to the Villareal game, and I have but wouldn't complain, it would be nice if the club laid down an olive branch and offered discounted tickets to get bums on seats?

After all proper fans make the same noise if they paid £30 or £20 for the tickets and if the tickets are unsold then isn't it a bigger loss and a dismal show with huge swathes of empty seats than offering them cheaper? Come on now, Wyness; you were slow at first but the change of heart showed someone in Goodison must be listening to something — and let's hope he reads fan sites too.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (07/08/05)

I'm holding my breath... and turning a blue shade of puce. — Ed

New Shirt
YES! The postie woke me up at 08:00 with the registered post. The New Kit had arrived, 2 days before the official launch... Nice! What isn't nice is that apart from my son's shirt fitting him, MINE DOESN'T! I hate these diets!!! (Not long now)!
Mark Brennan, Upholland  (6/8/05)

Message to the Moaners
This is just a quick message to all the people who have posted ridiculously negative criticism on this site recently. Why do you bother supporting our club? If you can't enjoy it when times are good, you might as well not bother. Compare this year to last year. If all of you lot had posted the same messages last summer you would have been fully justified. But we've just finished 4th! Yes, 4th! You slag off our signings before they've even played for the club. I, for one, wasn't best pleased when we bought Kilbane or Martyn, but I gave them a chance and the 2 of them have proved to be excellent signings. Patience is a virtue.

By the way I think this is a top site, and I normally enjoy most of the letters posted. But I've noticed over the summer how fickle a lot of fans really are. These same fans will be booing if we finish 8th say, when most intelligent people would say that is a good season for us. I think a welcome addition to your site would be a humble pie section, where supposed "fans" who slag off our players before they've even kicked a ball could try to redeem themselves if they come good. What do you think? I'm all for constructive criticism of the team, but give the likes of Phil Neville a chance for God's sake! I'm off to slash my wrists! I think they've got to me!
Danny Broderick, London  (06/08/05)

I'm more likely to set up a nice virtual rubbish bin for anyone who writes in showing intolerance for other viewpoints. If this carping does not stop, there is a simple solution. Your mail will not be published. The moaners have a right to moan since they were led to believe we would be getting a significant strengthening of the squad. It hasn't happened.

The happy folk like you (wrist-slashing notwithstanding) can tell themselves and anyone who will listen that everything is going to be okay and we are going to have a wonderful season, and that's fine too.

Just quit slagging off other fans, questioning their depth of support, or (worst of all) accusing them of being kopites. Play nice, okay? I'm serious... — Ed

New Kit
At the Udinese friendly the other night, my brother and his daughter pointed out a few supporters wearing the new kit outside the ground. We could only assume they were copies off the web as per web reports at the Thai friendly games showing Thai fans wearing them or from some competition prize we had not heard about.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (06/08/05)

Can't give them away?
With Everton's first venture into the CL, I thought that it would have been a sell-out on the first day of selling tickets for Goodison. I went there at about 5ish to get my ticket and there were more staff then people there... it's shocking... only 30,000 sold at the moment... I thought that it would definately be sold out by now but it's nowt... Which begs the question: Where are all fans? and what has happen to the big club with a huge following that we thought that Everton was?
Stelly , Liverpool, UK  (06/08/05)

Well, we were doing our bit yesterday, trying to get the messsage out. (Note that the Club and its website are remaining very quiet about this!} I hate to be critical but this is another side-effect of the botched ticket fiasco. Fearing chaos and knowing that anyone could pick up six tickets, many people will initially have said, "Sod it, why bother with the hassle only to loose out. I'll just watch it on ITV2."

While the poor bloody season-ticket holders, so pissed at the club for not initially giving them priority, will have said, "Sod it, if that's how they reward us for our loyalty... I'll just watch it on ITV2."

While the season-ticket holders will have then said, on hearing about the belated 48-hr priority period, "Sod it, my seat's already gone by now. I'll just watch it on ITV2." Or will have heard that even that was purely a froint, and that any Tom or Dick could still pick up six tickets, season ticket or no... "Sod it..."

What an absolute and total fiasco. And the endictment will be a paltry crowd of 34,693 on the night. Will any heads roll? — Ed

New Kit
I got my new shirt in the post early this morning, long-sleeved. I thought it wasn't out till Monday! Got some strange looks from people when out wearing it today, the staff in JJB Bromborough asking were I got it from... Anybody else got theirs yet?
Ian Doyle, Wirral  (6/8/05)

Flight to Valencia
My mate is selling a ticket for a flight to Valencia on Moday August 22, comming back Thursday. He paid £400 and wants £300 because his lad can't make the trip. Anyone interested e.mail michael.bates43@ntlworld.com
Michael Bates, Wallasey  (6/8/05)

Negativity
For Goodness Sake! (I refuse to use the fucking language of some of your correspondents, I was brought up in Liverpool 7 and my mum literally washed my mouth out with soap for using such language) there is nothing wrong with a critical friend, which is exactly what this site is. If I want to read blind Everton crap, "we are the greatest" ( we aren't, we had a miraculous season)., the manager is the new Messiah (he isn't, he's tactically very astute, but seems to lack savvy in the transfer market and in valuing quality players), the Board are all committed Evertonians, especially "True Blue Bill"( they are truly fucking - excuse ma francaise - crap, especially our totally useless Chairman).

I read this site, and occasionally I seethe at the articles, comments and letters, but above all I value it for its honesty and its desire to look beyond the obvious( Your Upholland correspondent excluded) because in that honesty lies our only possible salvation and our only chance to have a miniscule say in the way that the club we adore is run.

I sign this letter as an old man who is approaching 60, who was locked out at Oldham in 1954( your older readers will understand the reference) who adored Dave Hickson, Bobby Collins, Roy Vernon, Alex Young, my school's own Brian Labone, Colin Harvey, my favourite ever Everton player, Duncan McKenzie, Kevin Ratcliffe, Kevin Sheedy, Wayne Rooney and a host of others.

For God's sake, be critical, I hate reading pro-Everton rubbish. What makes Everton special as John McAdam, said in Charles Buchan's "Football Monthly" 50 years ago is the hyper-critical attitude of its supporters. Liverpool supporters, he said worship the team irrespective of the facts, Evertonians are ever vigilant in their search for "optimum".
Rick  Tarleton, Rutland  (05/08/05)

Got to agree with you 100% there, Rick (BTW: all use of 110% or any other such stupid number in that context is banned on here! — Editorial Edict #461-02)

The kind of fawning crap, empty promises, and gushing exuberance we hear so often from players and Chairman (thankfully never from Moyes) makes my skin crawl. But there are others who like to live in a rosy world where they are only told good things are going to happen and their lives must not be burdened by hearing the "bad" things of which you talk. Apparently we must be tolerant of thier views... but must we also pander to their needs? We may be guilty of doing that a bit too much recently! — Ed

Jamie's Column
Two words.... Spot On !!! Well said.
Bill , Houston, USA  (05/08/05)

Oi... let's have no more of that positivity, ya hear? You'll be giving us a bad rep. — Ed

Neville's Packet
I'm pleased over the Neville signing and I feel that versatility is key when you have a smallish squad.

BUT...

Does anyone really know how much Neville was earning at United and how much he is now being paid by Everton? There seems to be a huge differential between Talk Sports £55k per week to the Independent's £27k - £28k. I only hope that we aren't going to paying him over £30k when he's 33 years of age.
Andy Rogers, Northants  (05/08/05)

In the family way
Underwhelmed as I'm sure many of us are at the signing of the lesser talented Neville brother, it was reassuring to see Kenwright stating on the EFC website that "It has been a real pleasure, and indeed a breath of fresh air, dealing with the Neville family"

I seem to recall him putting equal stock in the 'family values' of Rooney's parents just before he offloaded our best-ever prospect to Man Utd.

Just a thought but does anyone think the reason we didn't get Bellamy, Emre, Parker, or Sissoko could have been that 'Uncle Bill' didn't like their mum and dad?
Neil Stanhope, London  (05/08/05)

We're all doomed
Having just read Kieran Kinsellas highly dubious comparison and trawled through the depressing content of the letters page, it would appear that many Evertonians are coming to resemble the arl fella in Dad's Army, who before anything had even happened and at the slightest sign of danger would cry out 'We're all doomed'. Fuck me what is the matter with you lot! We haven't kicked a ball yet.

A season of struggle ahead? If yer all managed to stop gazing at yer shoes, lift yer heads up and take a look at the teams around us you would realise that none of them have exactly set the transfer market on fire this summer. I won't be shitting meself at the prospect of facing Beattie's understudy, any team managed by Souness, O'Leary or Maclaren, or a collection of football league kids led by a Dutch mercenary. Everton's target for the season has to be to finish in a European place in the league.

European football, be it Champions League or Uefa Cup, on a consistent basis has to be the aim. Knobheads bemoaning the fact that we haven't signed ten players and will therfore have no chance of establishing ourselves as a top-six side conveniently ignore the fact that, apart from the big three, the teams we will be competing with have as many average players as we do.

It took 15years of bad management, both on and off the field, to put Everton on a par with teams like Southampton and Coventry as perennial relegation fighters. In three years, Moyes has managed to put us in a position we could only dream of. It will take another 15 years of steady and consistent league improvement to restore our parity with the 'big teams' of Liverpool and Newcastle. The next step is to consolidate in the top six and have a good go at some domestic silverware. Europe is the money spinner, the bonus. It wil be important for generating finance and raising the club's profile but it will not be a disaster if we end up in the Uefa Cup. What would be a distaster would be slipping back and finishing twelfth.

In the meantime, it would help if some of you would think before you submit letters moaning and whinging before the season has fucking started. You would think last close season would have taught some of you ameteaur Alan Hansens not to spout your mouth off with doomsday predictions which made us all look like pricks come May.

I sincerely hope that, come May, the whinging brigade will be disappointed for another year and we finish in the top six. I'm sure they would all be gutted. PS. Kieran, you forgot Aveline, the daughter. A hideous, nasal whiner who complained every time she opened her mouth. We know who she represents...
Steve  Connor, Liverpool  (05/08/05)

Elation to deflation
I can't believe we haven't kicked a ball yet in the CL and yet so many feel as though the battle is lost. But you can't blame them.

This morning I woke up like a kid on Christmas Day clinging to our last hope, that miraculously the 'showers that be' would overnight have delivered the pacy striker we so badly need... and the only thing I find is:

"Everton are also set to make a £750,000 offer for the Preston midfielder Dickson Etuhu, who Moyes worked with at Deepdale"

That wouldn't be so bad, but right underneath it was an old link stating 'Everton set to seal transfer of striker Bellamy'.

Now the guy may be a loose cannon but he's fast and he's a proven goalscorer and possibly the costliest of all this summer's botched deals. It's enough to make you turn to Chang...
Neil  Stanhope, London  (05/08/05)

Come on now,... We have Phil Neville. He is going to be "a great ambassador for the club". — Ed

Attention Mark Brennan
Dear Mark Brennan of Upholland

Will you please nip around to Gavin Ramejkis' gaff and ask him to log on to this address: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everton_F.C.

When he's read and digested the contents put your boot through his computer. Ta.
Dante Alighieri, 9th Evil Ditch  (05/08/05)

Nice!

Celeb Fans
Cornelius Lysaght is another one for your celeb Everton fans page - he's the BBC Racing Correspondent.
Dave Jerman, Derby, England  (04/08/05)

Missed the Boat Again
Everton have missed a golden chance to take a giant step forward. All the promise's of new face's and having a bigger and more capable squad for the CL have vanished into thin air, just like our beloved Board members, who are full of hot air and nothing else. So there goes another chance to step forward. Sorry for feeling down about this, but I just get fed up with broken promises.
John , North Wales  (05/08/05)

The right Priority
Having read DM's interview with World Soccer, I have to say I agree with the man: Everton's first priority has to be the Premiership, NOT Europe. The last thing the Club needs is another season of struggle; the aim this season must be to get another top-6 finish. Then we'll be making real progress.

Until we become top 6 regulars, we won't be able to attract the so-called big-name signings because at the moment it's too easy for our rivals to write off last season's achievements as a one-off. And, sadly, history backs them up. So, while I'd love nothing more than Everton to get through to the group stages, or have a good Uefa Cup run, I'd rather there be another good league season because that's what the revival of this club will be based on — nothing else.
Paul Kish, Maylands  (Australia)

Perspective and Viewpoint
Phil Neville couldn't even get a game at Man Utd last season — even with the debatable Kleberson in the side, and I gleefully remember his last few Engerland outtings as coming on as a substitute and adorning the first opposition player he meets with a twin-footed tackle worthy of at least a yellow card.

Perspective and viewpoint: I gave Beattie plenty of slack my worst fears keep being shown, paid too much for an average if not poor striker that doesn't match the way Everton plays just as I believe Phil Neville to be an average player who used to play for a very good team, get it?
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (05/08/05)

Yet another missed opportunity
Well - yet another failure by what passes at Everton as management. Luvvy Kenwrong can find time to be at the draw but can't find the time to explain his abysmal performance as a chairman. Moyes dithers on... What's up, Davie? Can't you make up your mind whether to buy Saha, Keane or Kanoute?

Wyness has seen his list ignored - will bully go off in a stomp? What happened to bully's spcial prize? Surely it can't be Phil Neville!! Yet again blues we have been duped. When are we actually going to do something constructive about it?
Son of Lythy , Ellesmere Port  (04/08/05)

My mother was obviously thinking about you when she said: "If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all!" — Ed

At least he's not as big a gobshite as his brother
I am happy with the Neville signing. His experience and versatility are obvious pluses in a small squad. I personally think Everton always missed Carsley when not playing last season and Neville would appear to be good cover/competition for his defensive midfield role. Furthermore, Neville has played left and right back for England and can cover CB and RM. He's a good pro with an unblemished record and is seldom injured. Shouldn't have lots of miles on the clock as he's not played many 40 game seasons.

I'm not overly bothered with the length of contract - if Butt is still worth £2M at the wrong side of 30 and after a rubbish season with Newcastle, then the deal would appear to build in some sell-on value in 2 or 3 years. Either that or if all goes well we get a useful player tied in for the rest of the productive bit of his career.

My concerns are that he may lack motivation having won so much already in his career and that I hope he isn't now our top earner when essentially he is a utility player.
Roger  Balshaw, Blackpool  (04/08/05)

By no strecth of the imagination is he in the "young & hungry" Moyes mould... whcih is why it has the painful air of a desperation signing that I hope we don't come to regret. He'd better be bloody good on the field, is all I can say. — Ed

Clock Watching
It's passed. Yes the deadline, it's gone... and with it, any ambition we had to move forward from the excellent base we provided last season.

In late April early May, I was sat in the stands (Top Balcony), oozing pride that I had brought my son up as an Evertonian, since his birth in 1994, against major prejudice in our area. Beating off challenges from the other lot, Man Utd, Man City, Bolton and Wigan, safe in the knowledge that 'we would be back' at some stage soon.

"Son", I would say, "If you never hear any other words in latin in your life, then remember these" He waits with bated breath, "NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM", What does it mean dad? what does it mean? It means son "only the best will do". "Dad?" "Yes son" "Why have we signed Phil Neville?" GET TO BED, NOW!
Mark Brennan, UpHolland  (04/08/2005)

It's gratifying to know I'm asking the same question as your weee bairn. "Out of the mouths of babes..." — Ed

GOING TO SPAIN
Me and my hubby are travelling on 23rd via Alicante then train to Castello for 2 nights. It's about 15min from the ground, not got tickets though. Anybody else in the area at the time? We may just get tickets when we are there.
Linda  Bullen , Liverpool  (04/08/05)

Mail the Webmaster via the feedback form with responses.

Phil the half-empty cup
I'm also all for the signing of Phil Neville. He is the sort of pro that should thrive in the Moyes regime. Good luck mate. Show all them others that are prepared to wallow in the reserve sides of Man U, Arsenal & Chelsea what they are missing. We may not have, say, a Wayne Rooney playing for us but then again we have nothing to do with anyone called Souness and we are (I hope!) going to give it a real good go...
Tony Horne, Kettering  (4/8/05)

Perhaps you mean "the half-full cup"? — Ed

Ken He Do It? Yes He Can
I see this latest transfer was brokered by our mate Bill. Finally I think the man has a use. I figure that because he is such a luvvie with such a warm glow about him then he should negotiate all transfers. You think I am joking but the man is brilliant at pulling the wool over people's eyes and can even make relagation sound appealing with his smooth talking and big bushy eyebrows. Come on, Bill, negotiate more transfers -- hey, maybe you can talk Owen into joining on £5k a week.
Paul Coleman, Kettering  (04/08/05)

Phil Neville
Phil Neville is a decent signing... I don't think £3.5M is overpriced at all. In Phil Neville we have a versatile experienced England international - of whom - we have now got in his prime. He is a model professional - which can only be a good thing for younger players within the squad to have to look up to. He is not a big-time charlie - he isn't a trouble maker. He does as he is told by the manager.

You should be pleased that he has shown a desire to move to Everton and has commited for FIVE years. He obviously isn't one of these mercenaries that is quite happy to sit on the bench and pick up his weekly £30-40k a week.

Neville is a decent player in the holding midfield position - MEANING - much needed cover in that position, should Moyes wish to continue with the 4-1-4-1 formation. Who do we have to fill that role should Lee Carsley, as he is at the moment, be out with injury?

Not only that, but he can cover right AND left back positions - meaning he can cover for Alessandro Pistone & Gary Naysmith - whom we all know and love.
Steven Astley, Wigan  (4/8/05)

I hope you're right about him. I just cannot fo rthe life of me get excited about this. — Ed

Top Signing
Phil Neville is a great signing, an English International with numerous caps and played in Man Utd's first team, not over the hill, rarely injured and a true professional on and off the field. Everton are definitely moving in the right direction , we wouldn't have dreamt of signing someone like this before last season.
Jon Taylor, London  (04/08/05)

Really... well rarely has a new signing filled me with such a feeling of total nothingness. I just view him as a Man Utd cast-off; someone who is no longer good enough for a team we are aspiring to top, after having finally beaten them in the leeague for the first time in 10 long weary years. But it's all about perceptions... — Ed

Phil Neville!!
Phil Neville?! Oh my god, what have we become? I mean Phil Neville!
Craig McManus, Mold, Flintshire  (04/08/05)

I think the only gripe here is the amount we paid for him. You can't deny that at 28 with 52 England caps behind him that he isn't a decent addition to the squad given his versatility and experience — Lyndon

Bewitched, bothered and bewildered.....
I'd barely finished chuckling over a couple of overpaid players who had their one and only game in "European competition" with Newcastle last night when it is announced that Everton have paid in the region of £4M for Phil Neville.

Don't get me wrong, I hope his signing turns out to be a stroke of genius. I hope we have to turn away hordes from our doors wanting to pay £10M and upwards to take him off our hands after he is the shining star of a magnificent European campaign.

What I don't understand is how a transfer fee of this amount and a 5-year contract fits into the policy we have rigidly enforced so far. Perhaps there are only certain clubs who will accept our bit down and a bit each week terms.

Earlier, somebody criticised ToffeeWeb for not passing on his player recommendations and maybe he has a point and you should start a list of supporters observations for Mr Moyes to peruse on those long away trips. Failing that, could you consider providing a reference for a job in Everton's scouting department because by now there must surely be several vacant positions or the consideration of actually starting such a department.
Thommo   (04/08/05)

Too Little Too Late
After having heard today about our successful signing of Gary Neville I wonder if I'm the only one thinking it's too little, too late. Am I also the only one that's thinking we at least should be testing the water with regard to Michael Owen? Y'see maybe I'm being a liitle too forward looking (unlike the board I suspect) but if we don't beat Villarreal (a mountain to climb, believe me) then that's us finished with our little flirtation with European football, dare I say, for a good while. [Don't forget the Uefa Cup - Ed]

Sometimes you have to take chances in this life and I think we should have pushed the boat out and called on the bank if necessary and got hold of a proven goalscoring, model professional, in Owen. I think that signing him alone would raise our profile more than our quest for Europe will. I believe that those who make the decisions and handle the finances don't......believe, that is.
Brian Williams, Wirral  (04/08/05)

That is assuming, of course, that he would want to join us or would be prepared to drop his massive (is it £80k-a-week or £100k-a-week he's on at Real?) salary to join his boyhood Blues. And that doesn't take into account the transfer fee. I agree it's too little too late, but Owen will probably remain beyond our reach — Lyndon

GOOD DEAL
I feel the signing of Phil Neville will prove to be a success, the guy has 50-odd caps and should bring a "winning mentality" with him, he can play all over the park and I have never seen him in the papers "WORSE FOR WEAR" and as far as I know he has never "slapped his bird". Give the lad a chance and let's hope he picks up more silverware but this time in the FAMOUS BLUE JERSEY.
Franky Burrage, Northwich  (04/08/05)

Consortium?
As an Evertonian now living a long way from home, it's difficult to keep track of events sometimes. Whatever happened to the Far-East consortium that was going to put a great deal of money into the club?

When visiting Liverpool last year I heard an radio interview with someone from the consortium and he was asked was this another case of all talk and no action as with others in the recent past. The spokesman said deifinitely not and the money would soon be available. Having heard nothing further, please can someone update me about what happened?
Doug Price, Worcester  (04/08/05)

Doug, you are referring to a proposal put forward by Paul Gregg as a challenge to Bill Kenwright last summer. Kenwright deflected it with the non-existent Fortress Sports Fund and no firm details of Gregg's far eastern backers ever came to light. The issue has disappeared off the radar thanks to David Moyes and his players' stunning success last season — Lyndon

Madly optimistic?
As an ever hopeful Evertonian, I'm looking forward to the new season with some trepidation but offer the following as an optimists reason for our dodgy pre-season form: the main thing driving Everton to achieve what we did last season was the steely determination of the players and manager alike, the never-say-die attitude shown in several big and important games (Man U at home, Newcastle etc.), the ability to rise above the ordinary and grind out key results.

Perhaps the pre-season hasn't offered the players anything more of a goal than "getting fit" and securing a place in the squad and (I hope) as soon as the real action starts, the players will rise to the occasion with the attitude shown frequently (though not consistently) last season. All will be revealed next week when we face Villareal.
Alan Cooke  (04/08/05)

Better the Neville you know...
I'm can't believe I'm admitting this but when my 13 yr old son asked my why we are forking out £4m for Phil Neville (+ a 5 year contract on God knows what wages), I found myself resisting the urge to fill the air with foul mouthed invective and making the same link as Colm does to our signing of Paul Power back in the 80s which turned out to be a revelation. I hope Moyes is similarly rewarded for signing a player of experience (rather than class) and that Neville will repay this opportunity to continue his career in the top flight. Disappointed as many of us were to lose out on Parker, the guy will never hold down a regular England place and to pay super star wages for a player with a lot still to prove was a non starter.

I'm also depressed by our failure to get a decent striker which has been obvious throughout 2004-5 (Dean Ashton was the answer last season - not Beattie) but again I don't see the point of forking out big money just to beat the deadline on players such as Baros or Kanoute which seems more geared to assisting our rivals than doing ourselves any favours. Anyway I'll be getting Neville. P on the back of my new shirt as soon as they give him a squad number - how about you lot?
Mike , City Centre  (04/08/05)

Disappointing
I woke up hoping for Robbie Keane, what did I get?....Phil Neville! Ok, I know what your going to say, 'Champion's League Experience,' doesn't excite me. Surely Nicky Butt on loan with a view to a permanent 2M move would have been SO much better! Oh well good win yesterday at least.
Rich Williams, New Canaan, USA  (04/08/05)

I'm inclined to disagree there, Rich. Nicky Butt is past 30 and the Newcastle fans I spoke to last season said he was one of the worst pieces of business they ever did (which is saying something for that shower). Injury prone and horribly exposed outside of the Man United side. The same might prove true of Neville, but at least he is 28 and has a decent injury track record — Lyndon

Get a grip
Gavin...get a grip or at least have a valium or lobotomy before you post your messages.How the hell can you judge Nevile's effectiveness for us before he's played one minute?

How would you deal with it if he fitted well and was a success. Sadly I feel you'd be gutted. I bet there's an archive with your message about that Aussie rubbish we signed from Millwall.
Ged Simpson, Chester  (04/08/05)

Neville Neville Land
Whilst not thrilled with the signing of Phil Neville, you have to agree with 'Ed' that we need to give him a chance. It will be hard to like him based upon where he's coming from but he could excel under Moyes rather than the wasp chewing one. We've signed a proven England international with a wealth of experience. With regular football, he could turn into an astute aquisition. Plus he's cover for the happless Naysmith and Pistone. Look at the other last day signings Moyes has made, remember what everybody thought when we signed Nigel Martyn on the last day of the transfer window. Panic buying they cried.......
Daniel Parker, New York, US  (04/08/05)

stop the crap
You´re all talking crap (or most of you at least). Neville is yet another clever move by our most trusted boss. Everton don´t need the likes of Davids, Van der Meyde and Emre for that matter!

What they need is a holding defensive midfielder to add the right balance to attacking midfielders like 2/3 of those mentioned above. Van der Meyde? We´ve got Simon. Emre? We´ve got Cahill and Arteta.

A defensive midfielder by nature, I read elsewhere that Davids is a psychopath, and I'm absolutely sure that he would never fit in. Besides the guy is too old...

Neville is definitely not an eye-catching player, but was that the case with Deschamps during his excellent time in Juve, Makelele in Chelsea, Xavi in Barca etc. etc..? No! These are the guys that add balance to the team (some are obviously more charismatic than others...) and make others ´look good´. That´s the role of a defensive midfielder, for christ´s sake, not to score 100 goals a season! Neville is an excellent choice, now its time to close the deal on Keane!

P.S. A couple of months ago I advised Everton, through you guys, to purchase Danish international Thomas Kahlenberg.

Why didn´t you forward it to the bosses (those with money in their pockets, because they hopefully are playing CL this year) or at least post it here? Its the best piece of advice that I´ve heard since my mother told me to quit doing the dishes and let my girlfriend do the job.

Now Kahlenberg is the new shining star of french football at Auxerre (of all places...)for a price as low as £3m. God dammit! And he´s a leftsided attacking midfielder. What could be more obvious? For Christ´s sake!
Mads Thulstrup, Copenhagen, Denmark  (04/08/05)

I see, so it's our fault he didn't by Kahlenberg? — Lyndon

Well in, Toffeeweb
This is just a quick letter to say cheers for the site, it's absolutely brilliant. Lyndon's recent column 'Oppotunity Knocked' was excellent and I always look forward to Rob Fox's column as well. Cheers and here's to another great season!
Andy Hughes, Perth AUS  (04/08/05)

Thanks, Andy. It's nice to know we're hitting the right note with a few people at least ;) — Lyndon

Donkey or Ass?
Poor old Davey can't do right for doing wrong can he ?... whatever he does he has his critics. Personally I think he is one of the best Managers we have had [apart from the first reign of Howard Kendall's] He is young, won't take any nonsense and won't pay over the top for any player or any player just wanting to increase their coffers and not put their heart and soul into playing for Everton.

Personally I would be all in favour of paying all players a set wage with a bonus for playing, a bonus for winning, and we might then see some of them putting themselves out a little more... but what Agent would agree with that?

As for Phil Neville .. well in our house we have always called him "Donkey Neville" - I can't say I jumped with glee when I saw it was "on the cards" that he would be donning my favourite blue shirt, but as my son rightly points out, he can play in various positions and we need to bolster the squad... but a five year contract at 28.. is Davey an Ass for giving him that?
Patricia Beesley, Carmarthen  (04. 08. 2005)

Time will tell, Patricia — Lyndon

General Comment
I have been reading your website for the past three or four years. You are so negative about the club and what they are trying to do - to say you are fickle, is a complete understatement. You should all be chuffed to bits that we managed to finish fourth instead on criticising the lack of players we have bought - and then when we do sign any, you criticise that !!! Phil Neville has played for England over 50 times, or hasn't anyone bothered to check. Let Moyes do his job and get behind the team. And as far as Kenwright is concerned, he's doing his best, so give him a break.
Kristian Watling, London  (04/08/05)

Umm, Kristian, I think you'll find that we were chuffed to bits when we finished fourth but in order to be chuffed to bits in a similar way next season, the club needs to buy players. It's that simple.

Whingeing
Steven Astley of Wigan, to reply to you: the mail page is to voice views not sit back with your obvious rose tinted specs. Calling me a red shite is the biggest insult you could give me though - season ticket for years Park End and before that Gladwys Street and over the years that has included flying back from Jersey and the Isle of Man and Europe to see home and away games including some dreadful weekday matches in winter not just sunny glamour ties. Wind your neck in and keep believing Phil Neville is a quality signing you clown.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (04/08/05)

OK, that's the last for this thread please, folks.

Better than nothing
At last! Everton FC have signed a player. OK, so he's not the greatest, but Neville will at least add some versatility to a very thin defensive squad. His international experience could well be what we require if we aim to get anywhere in European football.

Give the bloke a chance. If he, along with other new signings, doesn't impress, we can all say goodbye to Moysie & any future prospects for the club. For the time being at least, lets give David Moyes the benefit of the doubt. If it all falls apart mid season, Moyes will be unemployed & Everton FC will be battling against relegation once again. Let's all hope & pray that doesn't happen.
Barry Johnson, Colwyn Bay  (04/08/05)

Moaners vs good fortunes
I for one is quite happy with signing an England international. When was the last time Everton signed a player with more than 50 caps, all that international experience and several more good years in him? Neville is a dedicated professional who has done his job for United and England for years and, importantly, has not made headlines with bad behavour and dressing room rows. He can play in several positions and will probably be picked for next years World Cup. How many other Everton players can count on that?

In Davies, Arteta, Kroldrup and Neville Moyes has strengthened several positions in the team, and every player brought in is better than the two who has left. Admittedly, the team is not a top European force yet, but Rome was not built in one day. So far in 2005 Moyes has spent close to 20 million. That is more than most other clubs in the Premiership and a clear sign of improvement.

Hopefully, a pacey and prolific striker will come along as well before the window closes. Then the foundation for another good season should be in place. I completely trust David Moyes to continue to bring good fortunes to Everton, no matter how frustrating it can be to se a couple of decent players choose other clubs. If I could just throw him a little tip of a future great, I'd ask him to take a look at Christian Grindheim of Valerenga, Oslo. He is a powerful midfielder with a good pass, the captain of Norway U21's and has been dominating the Norwegian league in his first year in the top flight.
Lars Kristian Myklebust, Bergen, Norway  (04/08/05)

Rants / Moaning

A message to Gavin Ramejkis from Upholland...

Do you really want to support Everton??

Are you sure your a true blue??

ALL you ever do when you post on this 'mailbag' is whine and whine about the players, the manager & directors.

I'm sure other's have noticed.

Get a grip pal, and get behind Everton. Our club doesn't need your constant pessimistic views. IMHO your better suited as a red if you can't stop moaning.
Steven Astley, Wigan  (04/08/05)

Moyes's Deadline Rush
It seems every year whenever there is some sort of deadline David Moyes seems to get the cheque book out. Today it seems as though our beloved Everton are set to sign England international Phillip Neville. Dont get me wrong i think that a player of Neville's calibre will boost a very threadbare squad, and also other Evertonians must remember that this player has a wealth of experience behind him.

What this letter is mainly trying target though is the fact that these players are coming in far too late, if Phil Neville was brought in say 2 weeks ago then he would be ready to go for our upcoming champions league game. I will end this letter now but i would urge Moyes to bring players in earlier rather than later Thank you Matt EFC
Matt Davies, swansea  (04/07/05)

What!! Common sense rears its ugly head! Well said Matt. - Colm

Are things that bad

'Everton are signing Philip Neville'. What great news. A man who could not get in the Man U team unless there were injuries. A man that brought class and quality when he came on as substitute for England - not. What is Moyes thinking of.

Can we afford that kind of money for someone that will add nothing to the team.Could we not have saved that money until someone worthwhile came along. Lets hope the Doctor can do what the manager / board would not ie get shut. PS the only consolation is, it could have been Gary Neville !
scouse buttie, Liverpool  (04/08/05)

When will we learn? True, there are players we would rather not see in an Everton shirt but you cannot judge them before they actually don that shirt. Everyone forgotten the disbelief when Paul Power came from Manchester City? - Colm

...and now tapping the nails in the coffin
RIP football at Goodison Park - £3.5m for Phil Neville is an absolute disgrace, he is shite in defence and shite in midfield. Man Utd supporters all over the country must be pissing their sides, they fucked us over Rooney now and added bonus of selling us their shite at inflated prices. David Moyes goes straight from hero to zero with this lasst minute panic buy which shows his true worth when given money to spend on players; hmmmm Edgar Davids free, Andy Van Der Meyde £1.8m or Phil Neville £3.5m is a slap in the face to the losers who go like sheep to the slaughter and buy season tickets only to see our money pissed away on crap.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (04/08/05)

This latest signing appears, on the face of it, to be a very unpopular one amongst keyboard-bashing Evertonians the world over. However, we're counting down the minutes to the CL transfer deadline so desperate measures are required - including paying over the odds for a player with European experience and ability greater than that he's replacing. Not the most pleasing transfer on the eye but GIVE HIM A CHANCE! - Colm

"In cash we Trust"
"In cash we Trust" Signed...Parker, Emre, Bellamy etc etc
Ged Simpson, Chester  (04/08/05)

I thought it was their agent's they trusted! - Colm

The sound of inevitability.....
To quote the title and, not to gloat, but I told you so. Just returned from the Udinese friendly and am even more disturbed by what the future holds.

All players can have off games, just as they can have blinders. The match this evening showed the lack of quality and inventiveness which won the squad a very narrow escape from relegation two seasons ago - Pistone (useless), Hibbert (can't make the majority of crosses count), McFadden (can't cross or take corners beyond first post or seem to pass to his own team players). Rick Tarleton, I was brought up on Count Dracula Gordon Lee's players, including a blocky Bob Latchford and several other non-healthy players. Care to remember Duncan Mackenzie going off for a half time cigarette, anyone?

Unlike Bob and Duncan and so many others, Beattie looks disinterested, talentless and frankly out of his depth. Whereas Bob scored 30 goals in a season Beattie will be lucky to score that over three seasons. Unlike previous matches where he was played incorrectly as a lone striker which doesnt suit him, tonight he had a partner up front whilst he played and was useless, even pulling up in the first half exhausted.

Young Vaughan although far from the polished article played more attacking football in the few minutes he was on the pitch than Beattie had for the majority of the game before. Wyness and Kenwrong, and dare I say it Moyes, have had more than enough chances since the season finished three months ago to put blatant wrongs right. Instead we end up with 2 useless leftbacks re-signed, a keeper we won't see for years and a defender and midfielder which, funnily enough, makes the squad smaller than it was last year.

So in terms of inevitability, prepare for an early bath in the champions league and desperate loss of potential income which will be criminal given the 3 months Everton have had to strengthen and a lesson in football by a still smarting Man Utd keen to seek revenge for the last game at Goodison.

Like any Evertonian that has seen the inner rot over the last 35 years the upsetting thing is I keep coming back expecting anything different.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (03/08/05)

Opportunity Knocked
I’ve been meaning to write for weeks but to be honest couldn’t be arsed. Wryness & Kenwrong et al have a remarkable ability to bring out the apathy in me.

Lyndon’s "Opportunity knocked" article took the words from my mouth. You can dress it up how you like and look for excuses forever and a day, but the bottom line is that this summer should have been a watershed for the club. The first day of the future. It won’t be, because the biggest opportunity this club has had for 20 years will slip by at midnight tomorrow night. (04 Aug)

The unbounded optimism I felt on 15 May and during the following weeks seems like a lifetime ago, what with expecting us to strengthen the squad instead of just replacing those that had left. Let’s just hope the season passes quickly – coz I think it’s going be a tough one. Last year we were extremely lucky with injuries, can we really rely on the same luck this time round?
Dave Randles, Ellesmere Port  (03/08/2005)

Looking for Everton Supporter
My name is Zak Waters and I am looking for a Everton supporter who visually stands out from the rest of the crowd for a photography project I am currently working on. He or she might have the team badge on their tattooed on their chests or always have fancy dress on for games, etc, etc. Anything which makes them stand out showing their allegiance to their club.

I would be grateful if you could point me in the right direction at Everton as I am sure there must be one or two.
Zak Waters, London  (03/08/2005)

Mail the Webmaster using the feedback form with responses

Economic reality
So many of the letters in recent weeks have concerned our failures in the transfer market. Most of them are utter rubbish, written by fantasists, who do not seem to understand that all businesses exist on their ability to operate succcessfully in their particular market. Players do not sign for Everton for one of two reasons: firstly because Everton, unlike Birmingham, Middlesborough or Newcastle to name three typical rivals, are not backed by a benevolent multi-millionaire and therefore, are asking the players to come to Everton for comparatively lower wages.

Or secondly, because the potential Everton players are not totally convinced that last season's success( remember our goal difference, not a bad indicator of quality, if you study the tables and statistics) was a one-off.

How to stop these hampering us in the future? Get a board headed by a businessman, who is not an actor wearing a blue and white scarf with a cod accent, and who begins the serious process of getting investment into the club. Not fortress or imaginary Russians, but genuine investment. Otherwise our decline in relation to the big clubs, including Liverpool will continue.

If Everton seriously want to sign quality players, they have to pay the market price and the market wages, otherwise, we'll keep missing out.

Incidentally to the young supporter who thinks Beattie is fat etc. If he'd have been a bit older he had rememberrd "fat Latch" and he was a very good striker, fifth for me in my Everton lifetime behind , Young, Sharpe, Gray and Wignall( a terrible mistake letting him go and after us he became an England striker. So there is hope for Beattie, but...
Rick  Tarleton, Rutland  (03/08/2005)

Why all the anticipation?
I've been reading news after news about Everton being linked to strikers that are on the shelf. Mind you, these items are display on expensive boutiques. Just like every child who had almost used up his pocket money, we can only window shop, at least for the time being.

We have been linked with Parker, Forssell, Bellamy, Emre, oh gosh, just too many, I simply can't remember who else. Personally, there was no intention to sign any of these players, we just can't afford to get them.

Now Baros, c'mon! Can you guys stop it! I have had enough!

C'mon my fellow Evertonians! Our dear club will start signing after the 3rd round qualifying round, if they survive! Why sign a champions league quality player when you can't even qualify for the group stages? Things will happen if we qualify, if we get the carrot.

Even if we don't, well, Davey will still have a little allowance from Daddy Bill, just enough to buy UEFA Cup standards players.

Face it. This is football. This is business too. You don't build a F1 car for Indy race.

Oh ya, if we happen to buy Baros before Thursday, please ignore this email.
David Lok, Singapore  (03/08/2005)

I think you're safe there, David — Lyndon

transfers
Am I the only one concerned with our inability to attract even mediocre players? Even Andy Johnson preferred to take his chance at CP even though he will completly throw away his World Cup ambitions. We need someone at the club who can really sell the concept of coming to Everton, our failure to mount consistent challenges year on year has been our downfall.
James Meade, Chester  (03/08/2005)

The People Club? Wyness is having a laugh
The People's Club and Nil Satis Nisi Optimum are two slogans that feature frequently in Everton's marketing. The club seems to think they give us some moral superiority over the rest of the Premiership. How galling therefore to be treated like cattle yesterday and after 5 hours queueing in totally unacceptable circumstances to have to stand at the Park End under banners stating we are the Peoples Club.

Never in the 51 years I have been at Everton have I heard words of less meaning than Wyness saying he is only thinking of the spectators. This man on his own is ruining the club under some claim that he is putting us on a firm financial footing. It is like having a taxi firm and only owning old bangers. "The People's Club" and "Nothing is enough only the best" are a joke and certainly cannot be applied to Everton. Wyness must go and rid us of our rotten and decaying centre.
Mick Wrende, Macclesfield  (3//8/05)

Look to Norway
We need a defender, a midfield man and a partner for Beattie. Davie needs to look to Norway and 22-year-old Kristoffer Hæstad of Start Kristiansand for the midfield man. He has had a terrific season in Norway and he recently played his first international for Norway. A man for the future! There is not many Norwegians I would recommend for Premier league football, but this guy can cope I'm sure! And Butt signed for Birmingham, I say:"puh, thank God!"
Kjetil Sørensen, Ålgård, Norway  (030805)

Fiasco
I live 40 miles from the ground and therefore cannot get down to the stadium to buy tickets. I have to rely on the internet or ticketmaster. I tried all day yesterday to fing the online purchase link and only found it after a link was put onto ToffeWeb. By the time I got to it, online purchasing had been suspended. I have tried ticketmaster, they have no tickets left. I have three season tickets and cannot get one ticket to EFC's most crucial game in 10 years. Guess the touts will have a field day, but not with me.
Dave Owens, Altrincham  (03/08/05)

Troubled by Transfers
I am writing after just hearing the news that Nicky Butt has gone to Birmingham on loan for a year, with an option to buy at the end of the year. Am I the only one thinking where the hell have we been in relation to this? He would have been the perfect signing to beef up the midfield and act in the Carsley-type role. As a transfer target, I would have thought we would be at the front of the queue, but yet again we miss out. Typical of this pre-season.

I am afraid Moyes and whoever else is dealing with our transfer strategy needs to take a serious look at how things have failed. We have missed out on deal after deal and, quite frankly, we are the laughing stock of the Premiership at the moment.

The message is clear - we have to take a chance sometimes! Unfortunetly unless we do take a chance on a couple of players we will miss the golden oppertunity we have this season. So what if it means paying an extra £5k over the wage structure.

We are already seeing injury problems arise which meant we could only play one up front against the Turks. If we don't sign three or four more players before the begining of the season we will struggle, but the signs are we will be lucky if we get one or two. I fear that the Villarreal games will show up just how far we need to come (my prediction 2-0 on agg to the Spaniards).

I really do fear the worst - pass me the happy pills someone!
Ian Turgoose, Sheffield  (03/08/05)

tickets
The U-turn by the Club is too little too late. How are they going to cope with people now going for their own seats only to find them sold? How are the stewards on the night going to cope if arguements occur between fans? My friends and I have been fortunate because we managed to get our own seats but one of us had to disrupt his working day to queue for 5 hours and needed the help of of another fan to get enough tickets for all involved. In fairness he said the club were helpful with the crowd in terms of drinks and so on but that's not really the point.

Whilst waiting my friend also had his son try to use the online link but to no avail so those that managed it were more successful. Ticketmaster is not a good option as my experience is that they tend to get the more awkward seats - obstructed views and the like.

What the club seems to have missed is that the likely dates of the games were already known - they had to be on 9/10 August or 23/24 August. All they need to do for season ticket holders is is say to apply by post by a set date enclosing a blank cheque or credit card details guaranteeing no money claimed until specific deatils were known. It is a system that other Premisership clubs such as Man Utd and the lot across Stanley Park use. Simple isn't it? Perhaps too simple for the Peoples Club! Finally, I look forward to the simple means of getting in to the ground tonight!!!
Ken Finch, Llandudno  (3/8/05)

No no no... say no to Baros
I was just doing my rounds through the normal footy website when I see this link

Why would Beattie say something like that about Baros... I really hope that we don't get him as I would have to question Moyes motives in his spending of about £7M on a player that has been in Liverpool for about 3 seasons I think and hasn't score over 20 goals in total (he is a striker right?).

I have to say that you are right about the transfer speculation, I will be glad when the window closes now so I don't get flustrated about some of the shite we get linked with...

I think Keane is a real talent that even though I have heard bad things about his behaviour off the pitch (mostly rumors) does not affect his game and has proven himself at the top flight unlike Baros..
Stelly , Liverpool, UK  (03/08/05)

Litmus Test
Surely the Ticket Sales Fiasco (another one) is an issue of Club administration rather than one of supporter laziness.

If the Club can rearrange a 48-hour "period of exclusivity" for season ticket holders following a day of complaints - why did they not come up with this in the first place? Also to say that they notified everyone on their website is a nonesense; many supporters will not have internet access and those who do probably choose the websites of independent supporter groups which are more than merchandising / self-glorification channels. Finally, I wouldn't trust Ticketmaster to look after a cloakroom - I'm still waiting for my FA Cup tickets for the tie against Norwich City 2 years ago!

Out first taste of Europe for 10 years should not be a test of our commitment to the club but a celebration in which the Club make it easier for fans to get hold of tickets by having in place a system which does not rely upon loyal supporters wasting their day surfing the internet or hanging on the end of a phone in search of information. I'd have thought that after several customer-service cock-ups in the past, the People's Club would have learned some lessons on treating their fans with respect. As has been said before; if we were simply customers we would take our trade somewhere else but as fans it seems we should accept being treated with disdain and even expect it.
Mike , City Centre  (02/08/05)

Baros not what we need
I have to say spending big bucks on Baros would be a DISASTER!! The guy has the wrong work ethic. He's a hog and doesn't look up when he should to lay off to a teammate. Andy van der Meyde on the other hand is EXACTLY the sort of player we need so we can replace Kilbane with some quality out wide.....
The Garlden Greek, Melbourne, Australia  (03/08/05)

not blue enough
what is the matter with all the season ticket holders.if like myself religiously click on to toffeeweb and efc.com would have seen the times for getting a ticket or even if they was at work they could have phoned dial a seat. like my self i kept phoning the club to find out what was happening so it's your own stupid faults for not checking,we don't want moaners we want people who support thru thick and thin.
lee rogers, coventry  (03082005)

Let her rip, people...

Just the smallest amount of credit where it's due
Firstly, this is not a post in defence of our Board and it's many many failings. Secondly I'm not a season ticket holder, and given the fact I'm in Stockholm I won't be attending the home leg as I can't afford it.

But, like many of you I was appalled by the treatment of Goodison regulars again by our club. As news filtered through on this site, ToffeeNet and others, I got the sinking feeling that the club was again shooting itself in the foot.

And indeed it had, the ticketing allocating was a shambles and many people were hurt by the club's actions. A tea-time explanation only further confused and annoyed fans. After reading this, I felt moved to e-mail the club and voice my anger at what was going on (just on principle as it didn't directly effect me). I never expected a reply and sure enough never got one.

But one thing in the club's U-turn did catch my eye, the club was changing it stance 'In the wake of concerns raised from a number of supporters'. For once the club was able to listen to fans, and acknowledge its mistake. I was very surprised by this, and I hope that fans will in future try to voice their concerns to the club, rather then vent their spleens in Toffee site mailboxes.

Yes they had all summer to plan this, but hopefully lessons will for once be learned. I know our club isn't perfect by a long shot, but they do, slowly, seem to be trying to address the problem. The club has also coughed up £20M on transfers since January and still people demand more.

I'm sure I could write a whole novel on the faults at EFC (price increases, the losses, Fortress, etc etc) but for once I felt compelled to give the smallest bit or credit where it's due..... ...like the team they appear to be trying, a welcome change from the last 10 years or so.

Not so much People's Club....My Arse, Peoples club my elbow, one day hopefully People's Club...My HEART!!
Ian Taylor, Stockholm  (03-08-05)

Ian, Wyness & Co have created such a huge tsunami of negative feeling by their crass stupidity in setting this up for general sale that any credit they may be due for doing a U-turn is really a piss in a pot by comparison. It is simply not good enough. The fact that they were forced into what is now a ridiculous 48-hour window of opportunity for season-ticket holders (still no recognition of shareholders) by fan pressure exerted from all quarters after 12,000 of the best tickets have flown the coup makes it even more risible. Heads should still roll. — Ed

Touts
I could be one but my conscience (excuse the spelling) says not to. At about 12:15 today I heard Roger Phillips phone-in and the complaints about the ticket sales for the Villarreal game. I shot home and hit the Efc website. I then tried various Ticketmaster numbers and eventually bought 2 tickets.

At half eight tonight, I went on the Everton Online ticket sales and bought 6 more. Then there is the announcement that sales have been suspended until season ticket holders get a shot at them. Great! I am a season ticket holder and I am now told I am entitled to another 6 tickets, making my allocation, if I took it up, 14. I AM NOT SELLING MY TICKETS TO ANYONE, EXCEPT MY OTHER SEASON TICKET FRIENDS WHO ARE AWAY ON HOLIDAY AND CANNOT GET THEM FOR THEMSELVES. If there are others who have done what I have done and then went and bought again on their season ticket, at 6 a ticket, there will be some very disappointed people about, considering they have already (at 7pm) sold 12,000.

Don't forget I bought at 8:30pm!! There are others though who I am sure are going to make a killing out of this game. What the hell is going to happen about the away leg? We have been made to look like dickheads in front of the world yet again.

As a kopite colleague said "you should have left it to the professionals". On this occasion I do care what the redshite say! What an embarrassment. If you are a tout by the way, I will take great pleasure in giving your tickets to those that really do care for the club, at no charge of course!!
Lucky Fella, Lancashire  (02/08/05)

That just goes to prove what a ridiculous fiasco it is that Wyness and Co have created.... but now they'll be looking for brownie points because they responded so wonderfully to the demands of the fans... I think I'm going to vomit. — Ed

Keane or Baros
Let's think now Baros or Keane? Keane or Baros? PLEASE NOT BAROS!... we all know his scoring record; he is another Defoe, good internationally but crap in the domestic leagues! I would be really annoyed if we wasted £7m on Baros... Keane would be a supurb buy, go for Keane!
Stelly , Liverpool, UK  (02/08/05)

We have to assume (or hope!) that David Moyes is exploring or has explored the option of Robbie Keane because he seems to be the fans' choice, certainly over Milan Baros. Frustrating this transfer lark, innit? — Webmaster

Baros
I hope we don't sign Baros. The guy can't even close his mouth let alone play football. Reminds me more of a dog hanging his head out of a car window than a striker. Beattie & Baros - what a strikeforce!! More like Bed & Breakfast. £2M maybe, but nothing more. Would be good if we could pull off a year-long loan for a big star as cover Bolton-style. Once the guy's been at Goodison for a year, he'll realise it's where his future lies (as per Arteta).
Daniel Parker, New York, IS  (02/08/2005)

You probabaly just need to get over some fundamental fear and loathing of the fact that he is a Liverpool player... — Ed

Fiasco Continues
Thanks for the link, regarding season ticket holders and Villarreal game. The problem is the info regarding Ticketmaster is redundent, they do not have any tickets!
Wayne Jones, Wigan  (02-08-20)

Word from Everton is that the tickets.evertonfc.com website won't be available during the 48-hour exclusivity period for season ticket holders — Webmaster

Respect??
I'd been cursing my luck over the past few days because I'll be away with work for the Villareal game and wouldn't be able to go and watch - that was until a procession of long suffering season ticket holders ragaled me with tales of woe as they either queued or called to try and get a ticket.

I then read the articles posted and the surreal explanation from our esteemed CEO and felt strangely relieved to have been forced to avoid the whole debacle. How can an organisation such as EFC get it so wrong so often? In any other business, the customers would be long gone and the buffoons at the top sacked ages ago.

The focus on chasing every last penny and damning whoever happens to be loyal enough to get cough up on is mind-blowing and the comments coming from Everton today were just insulting. Maybe it's time we started employing tarot readers or astrologers to help the directors see beyond the next 5 minutes!

Whilst I missed out on the CL ticket debacle, I was well and truly suckered into buying my new Everton shirt directly from the website - 'giving directly to the club' - when I have since found out our offical partner JJB are selling it on pre-order for £5 cheaper!! Looks like the 'free' wristbands aren't quite as free as I first thought... I have complained to Everton, over a week ago, but strangely heard nothing despite a couple of chasers - maybe the complaints process is as drawn out as our transfer dealings!

Does it ever end?? Oh well, I'm sure it'll all be forgotten when we slaughter Villareal and Pistone scores a hat-trick against UTD; then I'll be digging deep yet again for something else with the Everton badge on it...

P.S. if complaining to your mates doesn't make you feel better, try writing to this (but don't hold your breath for a reply). complaints@evertonfc.com
Andy Norbury, Chester  (02/08/05)

Couldn't run a sweet shop
SO MR WYNESS' EXCUSE IS WE ONLY HAD A WEEK TO SELL THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE TICKETS BUT WE QUALIFIED IN MAY AND WE ALL NEW WE HAD ONE MATCH TO PLAY SO WHY DIDN'T THEY PUT IT IN OUR SEASON TICKET RENEWAL.!SO AS A SEASON TICKET HOLDER FOR 31 YEARS I MISS OUT OUR FIRST AND POSSIBLE LAST CHAMPS LEAGUE FOR 35 YEARS THANKS!
Robert Donaldson, Liverpool  (02/08/05)

Villareal Tickets
I have just managed to purchase some tickets and am grateful for that as I didn't want to be the one who had to tell my son I could not get tickets when he gets in from work at 22:15, but I am really angry at the way loyal supporters have been treated.

I know there will be an unbelievable amount of anger about this but I feel that we need to focus this anger into ensuring the Club do something about the way they treat the fans and not let them get away with this shambles. I was wondering if ToffeeWeb could arrange some sort of petition that everyone could sign and demand that Everton never do anything like this again.
Martin McShane, Warrington,England  (02/08/05)

A petition is something to consider, but you would think that after the last ticket fiasco the club would have learned their lesson. If supporter outcries like today's don't send a loud enough message, I doubt any petition would work either.

The Peoples' Club ®
Just how much more crap do they expect us to take? I quote the official website when it says 'the arrangements put in place are the best considering the imposed timescales and requirements'.

What!?

Are the CEO and Board so stupid that they didn't realise we were going to be playing in a Champions League qualifier on May 7th? That was nearly THREE MONTHS AGO and surely during that time they could have planned how they were going to sell the tickets.

I am a Season Ticket holder and after I pay my money for the season up-front [helping the club pay off its mortgaged debt - based against season ticket sales I believe] I should get some loyalty in return. I expect to be able to reserve my seat for the biggest game in the club's recent history. I am lucky enough to have obtained a ticket even though it is a pretty crap seat but I feel sorry for those supporters who turn up at every match, season after season, even through the bad times, who won't be able to attend.

Then again, they could always take advantage of the fact that the club sold up to six tickets to one person. I am sure if they can afford £150 a ticket from a tout they will really appreciate that!

Couple this with Wyness’ announcement that we are interested in Baros – even after all the embarrassment it has caused the club when we have missed out on targets throughout the summer – hasn’t he had a great day! The man is a liability. His ineptitude belongs in the SPL. How long can he be allowed to drag the club’s name through the mud? And no doubt "Billy Liar" will be keeping a low profile during all this…or maybe he’s still queuing up at the box office or holding on a phone line like the rest of us have had to do?

The Peoples’ Club ® - don’t make me laugh.
Paul Carroll, Stockport  (02/08/05)

Tickets
I waited from 10.20 am to 2.35 pm mostly in the very hot conditions for 2 tickets today. No word on what was happening to cause the hold up. Then word went around that the credit card machine wasn't working, so 4 hours later still in the queue - not all ticket windows were open when I finally got to the window. Was told the seats had been sold on the phone line, all I can say is that the people still waiting stood no chance and from what I have read and heard were still there a few hours later so I suggest that Mr Kenwright and a few others are at the sales office in future when a big game is going to take place and see how the fans are treated and maybe they will remember that these people are their bread and butter and need to be treated with a bit more respect they deserve.
Ivy Coombe, Liverpool  (02/08/05)

People's Club? My A***
Just read the pathetic rhetoric from Wyness. Is this guy serious? Just read my season ticket terms and conditions. They state "In the event of the club participating in any UEFA competition it may not be possible under Competition rules for the club to offer all season ticket holders the opportunity of purchasing their seat for a Home game. Those season ticket holders affected will be notified in advance of each game".

Well, I am still waiting for my notification. After scrambling to Ticket Master and aquiring a dodgy Main Stand seat (row HH) in the corner next to St Lukes(allegedly the best available ticket) I was astonished to hear that my purchase was limited to six tickets! Hang on a minute, I was this anoynymous caller who could purchase six tickets over the phone yet Wyness is quoting anti-terrorist measures? This guy's a clown.

No wonder players are turning us down left right and center with Mr Snuffleupakouss (that thing off Sesame Street, you know, looked like an elephant) as CEO in charge of negotiations. Why rant? Nothing surprises me now particularly regarding organisation at our club. Ever rang the club box office? You get better communication out of a Bangalor call centre.
steve callaghan, liverpool  (02/08/05)

Cross the park, Milan!
By the time this is published we might already have him or someone else will have nipped in and pinched him from under our noses, but I do hope we get Milan Baros! The bloke is a class act! I think Beneathus is the only one who can't see it! I know loads of Liverpool fans who tear there hair out 'cos he doesn't get a regular game, and to think they are willing to let him go and replace him with Peter "Heskey" Crouch! Here's hoping!
Craig McManus, Mold, Flintshire  (02/08/05)

Betrayal
And I thought that our club, our Everton, had more integrity than most. How wrong I was! It seems Season Ticket holders have no rights, no priviliges at Bill's club. Dear old Bill who cries at the mere mention of Everton. Why should someone who has not been to the club for 10 years suddenly have the right to sit in our seats? Why should the touts have the right to buy 6 tickets each so they can rip us off? Are you crying now, 'True Blue Bill' or laughing all the way to the bank. Season Ticket holders my arse!
Shay Daly, Manchester  (02/08/05)

How Do I Get a Ticket?
I've got 2 season tickets in upper Bullens but found out this morning that I can't get my seats for the Villarreal game. Hey Ho, life goes on... So, I start ringing Ticket Master early afternoon, but the lines are engaged. Eventually get through at about 4pm but there are no tickets left??

Try the EFC website to book on-line, but guess what - no tickets are available. Try the Ticket Master number again - just in case. Great! There are restricted view tickets available. Spend 20 minutes on the 'phone, but keep getting told no tickets available.

Season ticket holder for 40 years. Not only can I not get my own seats for our big European return match, I can't even get a restricted view ticket 2 hours after they went on sale! They surely can't be all sold yet? Have they restricted the quantities available online and through ticket master? Anybody know what's going on?
Bill  Russell, liverpool  (020805)

Tickets and touts
After a four-hour wait from the early morning at the ticket outlet today, I managed to get a crap seat in the Lower Bullens having been told the Park End and my usual season ticket seat had long gone.

Did anyone else at the ground find it a complete sham that the ticket office car park was full of cockney and Manc ticket touts already reselling tickets at £40 and £50 a pop? Just what are the stewards at the ground there for, ornaments?

Well done Wyness et al in the fiasco which is the business end of Everton Football Club, the season finished months ago and the knowledge of a European game was known so what the hell was today's ticket free-for-ll (touts anyway) all about? Keith Wyness,you are a bigger bullshitter than Kenwrong and an absolute disgrace to be associated with this club.

I hope all supporters managed to get a ticket in the end, I appear to have been lucky. I pity those who were queuing way way behind me.
Gavin Ramejkis, Upholland  (02/08/05)

Doublespeak
After today's ticket fiasco and as I can't get to Goodison until Thursday (I have to work, for gods sake) and reading the politbureau's reasons on the Pravda webpage, I felt a 50-page letter coming on Re: Conning yopu to buy a season ticket so you will be alright for European games. I have had mine for years (remember 13,000 v Coventry?) and I am now treated like "Who are you?"

The coup de gras was Slaphead throwing in the terrorist threat... hell, I hope those gate stewards check all bags! Also, under this system, who knows who the hell has bought tickets???

It seems to me that ebayers will prosper, loyal Evertonians will suffer, the club won't give a damn, and all I am left with is thanks for letting me have my rant cos individually we count for nothing as far as EFC are concerned.

So instead of a 50 page rant all I will say is - THE PEOPLES CLUB -- YOUR HAVIN' A LAFF
Ken Davies, Buckley  (02/08/05)

Ticket Fiasco
I am one of the supporters fotunate enough to have a lounge ticket (or unfortunate with the price hike). There is a message about lounge ticket holders will be contacted in writing - when?? If there is enough time to do this then there is enough time to set up a priority scheme for season ticket holders.

Additionally, due to the price increase in the lounge, supporters in these areas may decide it's too expensive to watch European matches from their own seats. What happens if there are no other tickets available then?

It looks to be incompetence and a lack of planning. There should have been plans in place catering for all scenarios.
Steve Linden, Liverpool  (02/08/05)

Shafted once again!!!
I knew it was too good to be true! European football returning to Goodison for the first time in ten years and I'm not going to be there to see it. Why? Because some 'suit' decided it made better commercial sense to once again piss off the thousands of loyal season-ticket holders and put the sodding tickets on General Sale!!! This kind of thing could only ever happen at our club!! For me, it's just more evidence that the men in charge of taking our beloved club forward don't give a shit about the people who are the lifeblood of this club.
Ian Sephton, Manchester  (02/08/05)

Deflated
Well, the summer of hope and expectation has turned in to the summer of dissapointment. Much like a lover who has been cheated on (Bilic, Campbell, Ferguson) our club now seems scared of long-term commitment, a scar that may never heal.

The CL draw was unkind; the worst kind of team we can face is a team who loves to keep possession, and we drew the best passing side in the competition at this stage. Riquelme is sheer class with technically sound team-mates, Arteta is good but doesn't have the same support. In a one-off game at Goodison maybe with some luck and brute strength we could force a result but over two legs with the away leg second, little to no chance. I am not hopeful unless......something big happens in the next two days.

We need a lift a confidence booster before the CL transfer deadline to show us and the players we can mix it at this level, we need a big player to put their confidence in us and help eliminate that nagging voice which murmurs "freak season, flash in the pan." Well who would do it for me? Probably one name, Robbie Keane. Another player who can actually keep possession and create. Unfortunately I don't think this will happen but hope springs eternal... until Thursday! If nothing happens I will enter the two games with one over-riding feeling "Villareal, be kind and don't embarras us." I am sure many of you, yes even those who deny it publicly, will be with me.
Richard Williams, New Canaan, USA  (08/02/05)

Wow, what an inspirational team manager you'd make... NOT! Might as well roll over and die right now. Living in a placed called "New Canaan", the least we could expect is some supplication to divine powers, surely? — Ed

FFS
Have we all turned into Liverpool fans?!?

How many people want to write in moaning about how many transfer targets we have missed out on or how we are missing our chance at becoming one of the big boys again. I know everything isn't wonderful buts let's try not to write the season off just yet!

I read a comment about how Newcastle, Boro, Spurs etc are all going to be investing more than us this year. Do you not think that is because these clubs have more money than us. They either have wealthy backers or charge over £50 for sh!te seats and have already embarked on the hospitality drives.

Lets try to be positive, we do have a few quality players and the club looks like it is heading in the right direction. It might not be quick enough for some but I would rather the club slowly turn around instead of blowing all our cash on players who would want to leave if we didn't manage to qualify for the CL next year.
Iain Cameron, Cambs  (02/08/05)

Em-Baros-sed
Why is Moyes considering Milan Baros as the striker we so desperately need? Is he a proven goalscorer? Not really. Look at his average return over the last 3 seasons. 9 goals! £7m million for a 9 goal-a-season man. I'd expect Tim Cahill or even Leon Osman to weigh in with that each year. Blackburn paid £3.75m for a 9 goal-a-season man, namely Craig Bellamy. I know who I would rather have given a straight choice.

Admittedly I previously stated my dismay at being linked with that spoilt prima donna. Is Baros a clinical finisher? No! Anyone who saw our pathetic capitulation at Analfield last season when we escaped with a 2-1, will recall Baros fluffing at least two one-on-one opportunities a half decent Championship striker would have buried.

Will he compliment Beattie? Just ever so possible as he was used to playing with big stick Crouch-esque dud Jan Koeller for the Czech Republic. Is he worth the reported £50k a week he is reported to want? If we wouldn’t pay it to Scott Parker, Craig Bellamy or Emre then why would we now break our pay structure for a lesser player?

In conclusion, the only reason that stands up to scrutiny is that we will not have to pay re-location expenses. We do not want red shite cast offs. If we are willing to sign a red shite cast off, then offer boyhood Evertonian Owen £80k a week for a year on loan.
Peter Rea, Bangor, Co. Down  (02/08/05)

Tickets
Phew, at last I got my hands on a ticket been queuing up for 5hours in the burning heat. I feel sorry for the people getting there late as the queue was by Gwladys Street when we arrived at 10. Let's just hope that all that queuing up will be worth it come next Tuesday.
Shaun Wright, Liverpool  (02/08/2005)

Ticket farce
I have got to express my anger over the way the club are handling tickets for our much-awaited Champions League fixture next Tuesday. OK we only have a week to sell tickets.... how long have we known that we will have a midweek European match in either the 2nd or 4th week in August?

Quite frankly I am disgusted that there is no provision for season-ticket holders to claim their seat, let alone give them priority of tickets. The club in their usual slap happy way have put tickets on general sale as they know they will sell.

It's not been unknown for a club to sell tickets not knowing who the opposition is. OK we didn't know the date but what difference does that make? We knew we would have games on 9/10 August or 23/24 August... does it need all the detail of opposition and date and time? No it doesn't! My ticket for the Arsenal 7-0 drubbing had the original date on in April and we played in May. Now what do we get... a scrum.... Thousands queueing at Goodison, phone lines jammed and web connections slow and unavailable.

I am OK, I got a seat from Ticketmaster.. not my own but close by.. I just hope other loyal season ticket holders are as lucky. EVERTON GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER.. PISS UP AND BREWERY COME TO MIND!!!
Paul Kellett, Parbold, UK  (02/08/05)

Michael Owen
We need a striker who can get us over 15 goals a season; Owen can. He needs to be playing regularly in this pre- World Cup season, we can give him that. He was born a blue! Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool don't want him. If we can't afford him, why not try for a season long loan with a view to buy? I realise the barcodes are making noises but surely there has got to be some deep buried feeling for us that could swing it in our favour!
Adam Carey, Ascot, Berkshire  (02/08/05)

Dream On!

Stop the moaning!!
All I seem to find on the Web at the moment are comments from fans across the country moaning about the lack of signings. Progress is being made and at the right pace. Yes, we all want star signings but player of the season and buy of the year was Tim Cahill— bet we never thought that would happen in August last year. Have faith... believe — and just maybe we may achieve the same again!
Andrew Reed, dumfries  (02/08/05)

Ah, right.... IN MOYES WE TRUST!!! Why didn't I think of that? — ED

Priorities
Can't believe the state of the ticket applications for the Villarreal game. No priority for season ticket holders - how does this make any commercial sense for the club? All I can see is supporters who stood by the club whilst we were getting beaten at home by Ipswich wasting their time and effort trying to get crap seats when the fair weather fans (who will doubtlessly slink away once we revert to our ususal level) get the best ones in the house.

All the atmosphere which exists between season ticket holders who've sat by each other for years is gong to be wasted - how does this help anyone? Remember the cup game a few seasons ago when thousands of fans were left shut out depsite the fact the stadium wasn't full? Why oh why do EFC continue to mess up all the simple things???

Anyway - rant over - I'm off to ticketmaster.
Dominic Buckley, Manchester  (2/08/05)

Regarding commercial sense, I can only imagine that the guaranteed demand for all available tickets convinced the Club there was no need to give special consideration to the faithful. But Goodison will not be full, since the gate for CL games is limited by Uefa to 80% capacity or something absolutely ridiculous. — Ed

Faith, Hope and Charity
I have to ask, has this site just been set up for Evertonians to have a moan? Seriously!

I can't beleive the amount of people on here who are slagging off Everton (for Everton read David Moyes)'s transfer policy. He's the gaffer, he's building our squad, he has a plan to get us back in the top 3 for the first time since the mid 80's. Can he deliver? If not not him, who would you like to see in his place?

You need to have FAITH in what Moyes is trying to acheive - he doesn't want Everton to be a one-season wonder any more than you do, but we are not Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea.

But we are not a CHARITY, we are a business, and we can't risk a policy of buy now, pay later (with the proceeds of future CL revenue), as Liverpool, Newcastle and Spuds are doing.

That leaves us with HOPE, not the hope of desperate men, but the hope of dreams, of taking Everton back to where we belong, to be one of the giants of this beautiful game. And of all the managers who are out there, home and abroad, I can see only one man able to help us realise those dreams. Maybe not this season, or the next, but he's taking us ever closer to that dream.

He may have red hair, but we don't care! IMWT
Saco el Juggler, Douglas, IOM  (02/08/05)

See below for my thoughts on this forum... and on Moyes as our manager. Voicing some concerns is valid; calling for the manager to be sacked is ridiculous. — Ed

Slit wrists
My word, what a negative bunch of so-and-sos you are! I mean there's being realistic and then there's finding anything to moan about. Get behind the boys for once.
Jack Leroy, liverpool  (02/08/2005)

I take it you think everything is just fine and dandy? So be it; each to his own. That's what this forum is for: people to air their views and concerns. It is interesting how each person's view is generally so narrow, though. Is it not possible for people to be at once both supportive and concerned? An exchange of views should broaden ones perspectives but, for too many of us, it seems all that happens on this here internet is increasing polarization. — Ed

Ticket Disgrace
What a disgrace the way Everton have treated their most loyal fans for the most important game we’ve had for 20 years. Whoever’s bright idea it was to put the tickets straight on general sale should be sacked. What would have been wrong selling them to Season Ticket holders until Friday (or even Thursday) then put them on general sale over the weekend and Monday? It's about time this club was stopped being run by amateurs.
Adam Bennett, Liverpool  (02/08/05)

Have to agree; the total lack of consideration for season-ticket holders and shareholders is despicable. No doubt we shall hear some classic spin soon... — Ed

Not Moyes nor Kenwright's fault !!!
Some are blaming Kenwright for not splashing the cash. But we've spent a whooping £20M since the last transfer window. £20M on players alone in the past 6 months!!!

I am as worried and fustrated as most of the fans, as our squad is thinner than, but it's not like Moyes and Kenright are not trying. We have made another two £6M bids for both Sissoko and Johnson.

We do have the money, and I optimisticly expect us to sign at least two more players before the deadline. Moyes and Kenwright are working their best behind the scenes in making this happen. I'm sure your patience are severely tested, but it's totally wrong to start finding faults.

Sack Moyes?? My Arse!!!
Muhammad Amin Azman, Malaysia  (02/08/05)

The point of concern is that David Moyes (and/or Kieth Wyness) may be partly at fault for the failure to secure players he has gone after. We don't really know, but that's the impression some people are getting. — Ed

Get Real!
Mr Ed, You continue to ridicule anyone that questions Moyes. The fact that he paid £10M for Wright and Beattie, re-signed Naysmith for 3 years, brought back Pistone and Weir, and still believes donkeys like Carsley and Kilbane deserve contract extensions... all of this and you still think he knows what he's doing!?

His tactics and formations are becoming like your worst nightmare... select from Gordon Lee or Walter Smith. His transfer dealings just get ever more desperate the closer any deadline looms. I know he's financially limited but I still think he's wasting money and missing out on better, cheaper players.

Your undying trust, while admirable and optimistic — probably based on the misleadfing fact that he has won a managerial award in 2 of the last 3 years — is going to end in tears. I fear he is out of his depth, is a Championship manager or maybe a Bolton, Man. City at best type manager. His transfer dealings, Cahill and Bent apart, clearly show this. I'm really dreading this season.

My old man's a Liverpool fan; that's ruined our father son 'relationship' for all eternity, so believe me when I say I couldn't hope to be more wrong!
Mike Price, Songkhla,Thailand  (2/8/05)

Nice call... and hard to argue with the increasing litany of faults. But I simply think it is unrealistic to expect that the manager of Everton going forward will be anyone other than David Moyes. He's been here for more than three seasons, and he's started to achieve something. What more could anyone ask? Only an idiot in charge of our club (don't say it!) would contemplate his removal, no matter how erratic the manager may become. He's ours and we have to stick with him as he (hopefully) continues to learn from his mistakes. — Ed

Stop whining
To those questioning our manager and even wanting him sacked: Get a grip!!! He's the best thing that has happened to Everton in a long time, may his reign last long.

4-5-1 suited the squad we had last season, a stroke of genius by Davie. But before we can go to 4-4-2 we need another good striker to partner James Beattie. When we do get that I believe that we will see much better football from Beattie too. But Johnson is just not worth more than £6M.

And compared with last season, I believe we have better players now. I believe we will see a new striker, and a new Beattie, and hopefulle some left sided players. Pisto and Kilbane need replacing. But with Arteta, Cahill and Davies in midfield, Yobo, Krøldrup, Hibbo and Nige at the back, and Beattie and possibly Baros on top? We're starting to get something that looks like a team. I do not believe we will get past Villareal, but lets hope...
Laban Vigrestad, Stavanger, Norway  (020805)

All we are getting now are the same old points being made... can we please move on? — Ed

Make a plan!
I've got a hole of darkness in the pit of my stomach about the coming season. Friendly or no, the performance against the Turcks was PA-THE-TIC!!!!!!! David Moyes, you are a fantastic manager and I don't think anyone expects the unreasonable, but the transfer issues this pre-season, the matches, the reasons that you and players give for under-performances are really annoying. Why is it that supporters and fans can see the holes in the team and the management can't? We are going to be the laughing stock of CL town !!!! I have very little hope of us doing well in the league again. WHEN ARE WE GOING TO REACH A POINT OF CONSISTENCY???? This up down, up down business is making me sick, dizzy, and leaves me wondering whether Everton is doomed to be the "lesser" club om Merseyside forever!!!!! I love Everton and have for the last 24 years (even tho' I'm a South African!!!) but I am disgusted and embarrassed at our recent performances.
Noleen Daya, Cape Town, RSA  (02/08/05)

Squad Size and Villarreal
While everyone is concerned about the number of players in the EFC squad (and rightly so, even if it is being done to death lately — wonder if the message is getting through yet?), I thought I'd do a quick comparison with Villarreal so I just took a look at the Villareal website at looked at their first team squad list - 3 goalkeepers, 9 defenders, 11 midfielders and 6 forwards. Well, at least EFC have more goalkeepers than Villarreal!
Billy Flynn, Camberley, UK  (01/08/05)

Stuck with the Bill
How does Bill get off so lightly. He has got away with all that takeover rubbish last year on the back of a great team performance last season, he must surely know this is his last chance to move us foreward. Splash the cash, Bill, instead of living in theatreland, and live up to a promise for once.
Darren Findlay, Huddersfield  (01/08/05)

Bill Kenwright seems to have learnt something from last summer's dreaded pronoucements ("£50M? He's priceless!") and has been remarkably quiet prior to Friday's gushing outburst of luvviness. But it seems no-one (not even Paul Gregg) is willing to point up the lack of clothing in evidence around Goodison these days... — Ed

All about Moyes
I heard today from somebody who told me that the Daily Mail wrote the following story, I don't know when from but for all you Moyes critics, this will put the icing on the cake. Scott Parker spent 1½ hours at Goodison (before he joined Newcastle). He had agreed terms and agreed the salary that they were meant to have stumbled on. Moyes spent 1 hour talking about himself and that was the real reason that Scott Parker rejected us because Moyes was all about himself and nothing else. Let's hope he proves me wrong and buys like he got all the money in the world. Moyes I certainly no longer trust.
Stewart Wake, Maghull  (01/08/05)

And yet you trust the Daily Mail??? I looked long and hard for this story on Saturday and could find nothing online. But the Daily Mail is an extremely poor apology for a newspaer (IMHO). Send in the link (when you find it). I'll still be waiting... — Ed

Further to this, the article was in the Northwest edition of the printed edition and didn't, as far as I know, name the player in question. The general assumption is that it was Craig Bellamy and not Scott Parker, but who knows? — Webmaster

Villarreal
Firstly, does anyone remember that woeful song from the 60s/70s we used to sing (I was minus 12 at the time!!!)! "We all live in a Blue & White palace"? No? I only asked because apparently the Villarreal fans sing along to the Yellow Submarine song...

Back when we were literally, THE BEST in Europe, our fans also had a fantastic reputation wherever we went. Let's hope we can revive our fans' reputation on our travels. And any prat who wants to put the reputation of Everton Football Club, at risk, I will have my camera with me and the photos will go to the Spanish and Merseyside police. It all promises to be a good couple of games. It's nice that people seem to be writing us off as well. I love proving people wrong!
Mark Brennan, Lancs  (01/08/2005)

Watch out for Vigilante Brennan! — Ed

Bridge from the Bridge
My brother drove past Bellefield today and swears he saw Wayne Bridge.
John Hunter, ellesmere port  (01/08/05)

Born of Frustration
It seemed like only yesterday when Uncle Bill was celebrating in his garden, popping the old champagne corks, while Davey Moyes was doing his impression of Val Doonican in his conservatory (easy on them cardigans, Davey!). Yes, it was a great day and makes us all proud to be Blue. But we need to remember a number of issues that seem to have either been forgotten in euphoria or have been swept away under the carpet.

I am mystified as to where the money has gone from the Fortress Sports Fund investment. God, no wonder its called that, "fortress " you're right there, we can't seem to get in! The success of last season has taken the spotlight away from the still underlieing problem of lack of financial investment, and I still worry that teams like Newcastle, Tottenham, Middlesbrough etc are prepared to invest heavily to get to the position we are now.

We need to use the success of last season as a springboard to take us onto the next level; otherwise, it could be a long time before we get the chance to experience this again. David Moyes is a great manager but how long will he stick around if the club cannot match his ambitions?

I want success just as much as the next blue. But I am realistic when the facts look you straight in the face.
Glen Stevens, Cheshire  (01/08/2005)

New players
There should be a lot more committment and effort in the Villarreal match where we should see how much we need to improve. Europe is still aiming too high for us at the moment, while all the teams that finished in the the top 10 have improved their squads. Meanwhile, we've brought in an injury-prone player called Davies and a defender who is unproven in the Premiership.

I do trust in Moyes and everyone he buys because they've all been good contributions. Cahill is one of our best buys in the past 15 years and even Wright had a pretty good first season but then got a serious injury and went well... AWFUL!

I can't criticise Moyes because I dont know what is going on behind the scenes and how much money he actually is getting, and what that Keith Wyness is actually saying when he talks to possible new players. But our top transfer targets are choosing other clubs who finished lower than us, it has to be Wyness offering poor wages.

We won't do well unless we buy top players and quick, so Wyness, Moyes and Kenwright let's show that were a top club and let's show that we are among Europe's elite and buy the players we need before it's too late.
Shaun Wright, Liverpool  (01/08/2005)

Why not Dellas?
I hear Traiano Dellas is available on a free transfer. Wouldn't he be a good fit for us? The guy has international experience, is a good defender, two things which could prove useful in the Champions League. Because right now, we definitely don't have the squad to play with the big guns... nor the small-to-medium guns for that matter...
Eric , Montreal, Canada  (02/08/05)

I'm excited!
Reading some contributions in this mailbag you would think that Walter the wally (not Moyes the messiah) is still in charge. We finished fourth last year people, let's not forget that! Next Tuesday we have an opportunity to gatecrash the Champs League party that we have watched so enviously from our so far for too long. All this negativity is not what got us in this position but a collective (players/fans) team spirit in the face of constant criticism. Who will ever forget that magical night when we beat Manure in front of the best atmosphere I've ever witnessed at the Park! A recreation of that against Villareal and we batter 'em! Come on you Blues, keep the faith, I certainly am!
David  Sweeney, Hertfordshire  (01/08/05)

The time to improve
While all clubs are surely constantly trying to improve their squads, the critical period for doing this has to from a position of strength. This is where we stand at the moment but it seems to be being frittered away by a combination of poor negotiating, scrimping on wages and the inability of the Board to raise the required levels of funding to compete at the level we have reached. I honestly don't know where I stand. I don't want to whinge and panic too early while, at the same time, can't agree with the optimistic camp either. The performance in Turkey was diabolical, the squad is paper-thin and bog-standard at best.

Also, it is no use harping on about last season. That is over and gone. Everton made the mistake of sitting on our laurels after the last championship of the 1980's and its took us until now to even trouble the successors because of that inability to build on success. If we are not to repeat that mistake and make this season of European trips a one-off rather than a regular occurence, the club has to up its game in all departments and no amount of optimism can cover up that fact.
Paul Burns, Liverpool  (01/08/05)

Pre season is nearly over...
...and I for one will be glad to see the back of it!

OK, we haven't won many pre season friendlies, but do they really mean anything? Man U have had a PR disaster over in the Far East and I don't see many of their fans knocking back the anti-depressants (although living in England we don't see the majority of them!)

Isn't it about this time we should be getting behind the players? Granted, Richard Wright must wash his gloves in butter but he isn't our first choice keeper anyway. Weir never had any pace to lose and Beattie will start scoring goals when we start getting the ball to him in goal-scoring areas. We can't expect him to pick up a high ball on the wing and then weave his way inside to score can we?

The key to the Turkish game and our upcoming Spanish adventure is to learn about the higher level of football we now wish to compete at. I'd rather lose to decent opposition than hammer Tranmere every year only to go and play for 17th in the last few weeks of the season.

Maybe expectations are too high at the moment? The boys put us back on the map last year but the higher you climb the harder it gets, and we can only keep going one step at a time. Look where trying to rush has got us before, and look where it got Leeds!

Come on you blues and lets try to bring little Mikey back from the dark side!
Adam Carey, Ascot, Berkshire  (01/08/05)

It's The Players, Stoopid
Just been reading through the mass of correspondence following the 5-0 defeat. There appear to be 2 camps: pro-Moyes and anti-Moyes. But, as far as I can tell, it's the players out there on the pitch, not the manager.

Apart from the 4-5-1 thing, which I hate, it's the players that underperform, not the manager. Moyes can't make Wright stop the shots, nor can he make Pistone put in a decent challenge, or Hibbert pass the ball to a team-mate. I could go on.

Let's look forward to more games like Bayern Munich in '85 and Man Yoo last year and not bleat about pre-season friendlies. It's a grand old team to play for...
Paul Johnson, Oxton, Wirral  (01/08/05)

Kudos for coming up with something different! — Ed

Whose having a laugh??
Dear, oh dear, oh dear!! Is there any need to say anything more? To quote the Beatles song..."Help, we need somebody, not just anybody..help!!"

I am even considering asking my son to "get his boots on"....if this is how its going to be, we may as well give up now... and that's not being pessimistic just realistic!! Whose having a laugh? I wish I was.
Patricia Beesley, Carmarthen  (01/08/05)

I was hoping for better from you, Patricia! — Ed

Starting From The Wrong Place
Which way now for Everton? Of course if we wound down the window and leant across to ask the yokel swinging on the farm gate for directions the answer would be "I wouldn't start from here if I were you". Alas, that is exactly what we must do though. By a combination of injustice, bad luck and bad husbandry we are, if not exactly lost then weary from travelling round in circles for so long. During our detour the party started without us and our late arrival has left us to be treated like gate-crashers.

It is never going to be anything but difficult. The dancing has already started, everyone is paired up and the piper has been paid and the tune called. We have little choice but to shuffle our feet at the periphery knowing that it's not the most attractive location to attract the attentions of the belle of the ball. Yet any evidence of individual talent of our own will be quickly spotted, enticed away from us and invited into the main event. But come on lads, get in there again and, en masse, slam-dance amongst the choreographed crowd of waltzers. Knock them off the pedestal. Spoil their fun and give us a real party once more...
Tony Horne, Kettering  (1/8/05)

At least that puts things in a slightly different light.... — Ed

New Keeper
As soon as I saw the 5-0 score line I knew who had to be in goal! Yep Richard Wright, £3.5M he cost, only played a handful of games last season but conceeded more goals than Martyn. Remember Spurs, Arsenal etc. He is a liability and must whatever the cost be removed from Everton, Imagine a Nil Nil scorline enough to get us into the Champions league group stages there's 2 mins to go and Martyn gets injured. On comes Wright; final score: 0-3 and £10M slips through our fingers like a football through Wrights hands.
Philip  Arundel, Castleford  (1/8/05)

'Wake Up'
To the powers that supposely gets players and negotiates for us. WAKE UP!. So muxh for your Wage Policy. We don't have the depth and/or talent in the squad. Go and get players... NOW!!!!!
Patrick Rynhardt, Cape Town  (01/08/05)

Oh, this is getting ridiculous. Please, everyone, just stop being silly! — Ed

It IS the end of the world as we know it!!
Yep. We're screwed. Definitely will lose to Villarreal, and almost certainly will be relegated next season... Sorry, I'm gonna just wake up and smell some coffee. I was in Bangkok to watch us lose to the Thai U13 Girls team and Man City. We were appalling against the Thais, but we were just unlucky against Man C.

Why are people reading to much into pre-season friendlies? Yes, losing 5-0 to the Turks isn't good, but I've been watching Everton all my life - the successful era in the mid-80s was brilliant. The decline in our fortunes subsequently was lamentable.

We are making progress. We do have a talented and AMBITIOUS manager. We are lucky to have him. I worry that the next "big" club that changes its manager will want Moyes.

On the marketing front, I was staggered by what I saw in Thailand. When I was doing the tourist thing in the spare time between the games, I saw a huge amount of locals wearing our shirt. Think about that...

Remember always, we're Blue!
Matt Traynor, Singapore  (01/08/05)

Matt... a word. Sarcasm — if that is what this is — doesn't really come over on the internet. You just sound like you have a split personality. Yes, everyone is over-reacting, but I think we have heard all there is to hear (and then some). — Ed

Reality
I have to say "I feel deeply disturbed that anyone could say anything negative about the best manager in football." Look at his record with Preston and Everton, and people have negative things to say about him; it's boarderline insane!

I hope that Martin O'neil gets the job at Man Utd, because I think Moyes is second choice. The negative Evertonians are closet reds can't deal with the fact we could do better tha Liverpool and the leaque this year. We will beat Villarreal, and over-acheive in the league AGAIN. But, if we don't, if Everton do better then any club with more money, then that will be a great achievement. If we finish above Spurs, Liverpool and Newcastle, if we beat this "most amazing Spanish side" [bollox] it will be a great acheivement.

People think THEY are better managers then Moyes, you need to get two facts sorted:

1. How many big signings by anyone but the top three have been a success?
2. How do you motivate a player on huge money if you are not challenging for the title.

Summertime Blues
I recall in the aftermath of the 1985 FA Cup Final defeat, a fellow blue suggesting that the reason Everton failed to secure the treble was that, after a season that had made us all experts on European train and ferry timetables, it was the Fans rather than the team who were too exhausted to make the final push.

I offer this thought now because I am no longer in any fit state to start the 2005-06 campaign. Remember when the close season really was the close season? When NOTHING happened from May to August? Remember that sense of delirium, of a terrible thirst being quenched, when the season actually began? And that it began with 11 men kicking a ball rather than with agents deciding whom those 11 men might be?

Goodison has yet to open its doors in earnest, and psychologically we are already half-drained. These last few months should have been devoted to watching cricket or adding to that butterfly collection. Instead we’ve spent them arguing (often with distressing rancour) about the merits of a club, a manager and a team that haven’t played a competitive game in months. Moyes must feel like the manager who was sacked after the pools panel gave his team 5 defeats in a row.

Football is a winter sport. But it has to made an all year round business if sponsors' investments are to be recouped. Sky provides football by proxy over the summer in the shape of the transfer wars, euro draws relayed with the breathless excitement of a moon landing, and exotic, but pointless friendlies. And we’ve fallen for it like the sorry junkies we are. Result? We’re edgy, jaded and arguing amongst ourselves before a ball has been kicked. I can’t work out whether the season has already started or whether the old one never finished.

We’ve got two weeks left. Get some rest; turn off the computer, TV and radio. Cancel the paper subscription. Get some fresh air, buy the I Spy Book of British wildlife, a copy of Wisden, get down to Ainsdale and build a sandcastle, anything, before it’s too late. You’ve got to be in peak condition for this season. The team needs you.
Michael Coffey, London  (31/07/05)

Haha... Great stuff, Michael —

Put Your Heads Back On
Please please cast your mind back 12 months and dig up those feelings you had about the pending season...

For me I was (not) looking forward to a season of a small, limited squad knowing young Mr Rooney would be on his way and, for the first time in my lifelong support of my beloved Everton, I really thought this was the season we would be relegated.

To my surprise I was week on week wandering around with the biggest smile on my face seeing our team challenging at the highest level which is where we all think they should be... At the end of the season, we were 4th, in the Champs League, and I cannot belive this is happening!!!

Why, as Everton fans, can we not enjoy where we are? Yes Nil Satis Optimum... but let's throw in some reality! We have been nothing but survivors for 10+ years and I personally want to see a consolidation of what we have achieved. If we finish top 10 this season for me that is a success, if we qualify for the group stages of the Champs League, let's enjoy it because c'mon we wont go any further (watch me eat my words). <> Let's get rid of the negativity and yes I was embarrassed by the Arsenal game last year and Saturday's result but let's remeber that we are a great club trying to re-establish ourselves and we are a long way from that still.

For me - in Moyes I Trust!!!!!!
Phil Hoyle, Reading, UK  (31/07/05)

Ah... that was very heart-warming. Now, if you only you could clone that feeling for the myriad of knee-jerkers who have already decided our fate... — Ed

Just like to say...
... what a professional and well- run website ToffeeWeb is. I find it extremely informative and up to the minute. What more can I say, well done!!
Jon Taylor, London  (31/07/05)

Thanks, Jon. That's what we aim for... not that all our visitors seem to understand that (do they, Phil Edwards?) — Ed

Forever Everton

Due to illness, the only league game I was able to attend last season was the home Premiership game against Man Utd on the 20th of April. I can honestly say that it helped my recovery no end. My brother, a Liverpool fan, watched the match on TV and couldn’t believe the atmosphere and noise generated. My girlfriend, attending her first match, loved it and is now a blue for life. Anyone who was there will remember how good it was and how good it felt. It was an amazing night. We have now added more quality to that squad, so why shouldn’t there be more great days at Goodison to come?

It's natural to expect the fall, but come on, there’s no need to act like it’s already happened. There may be plenty of time for doom and gloom later. I hope I’m wrong.

In Moyes I Trust
Hey let's put the knives away and leave Davie alone. David Moyes does not negotiate players transfers. This isn't some footy management game where you buy players, negotiate contracts, build the stadium as and when you feel like etc. This is the real world where this chap called the CEO negotiates contracts and transfers and brings the players in.

All Moyes does is say - I want him and then Wyness will go and fuck it up by offering a contract of chocolate buttons. For Moyes, his job is to coach the team and he did a mighty fine job last season. So he is playing 4-5-1??? Well what option does he really have with the shower of shite at his disposal. We need a Tottenham setup or a better CEO, hmmm... remember Birch?
Paul Coleman, Kettering  (01/08/05)

Errmmm... Wyness Out? — Ed

ToffeeWeb Letters from September 2005