O'Brien saves a point as Beto squanders three

Chance for Charly to force himself in to the side permanently.

1-0 Alcaraz!!!

Let's hope Charly is my darling and lasts the 90-plus minutes.

Good line-up.

https://x.com/AlanRobert44297/status/1894644772502905341

COYB 💙

But what is it with these ridiculous shots not on goal?

Then we give away a soft goal from a long throw-in for which nobody seemed to want to challenge. Brentford just seem to be quicker, better organized and not without a bit of skill and Moyes will earn his money sorting this out at halftime.

Full backs and wingers giving us nothing going forward.

A good point on the road. Alcaraz has to become a permanent addition, what an agressivenes and understanding of the game he has.

If Beto should’ve passed that we would have won it.

Great point and still moving forward.

From the corner it looked like Lindstrom stopped it going into the net. And who said Mykolenko can't cross a ball as O'Brien gets his first. Beto spoils his reputation by missing a third one on one chance with their keeper.

A game which could have gone either way and without either team looking like they wanted it a draw seems a fair result as Mr Moyes effect continues.

Oh, and a final word, the Ref had a good game but what is the point of Linesmen if they won't flag offside until VAR tells them to.

No doubt we'll be told that they weren't really chances, that no-one could have scored them.

Well, there is one player I know who certainly couldn't!

We will get better with a bit of a rest and troops coming back, on this form we will be soon in the top half.

You could argue that Beto should've scored all three of his chances but the keeper did well each time and the effort that caught Flekken under the arm could easily have gone in.

O'Brien and Tarks were immense and we looked the most likely to score a winner. And I'm gonna say it: we're now safe. 15 points and massively superior GD.

UTFT!!!

Obviously, Beto finding form prior to this game helped but getting goals from set pieces and people following up on loose balls have also helped. This was basic stuff we'd stopped doing for whatever reason under Dyche.

As to the performance tonight, it was a bit below par but games are coming thick and fast for our threadbare squad so it is not surprising to see a bit of lethargy creeping in.

The team that is third from bottom needs now to make up 16 points on us, so we're up basically.

I don't think we deserved to win but we had some good chances and Brentford didn't deserve to win either so I'd say
I'm happy with another point which makes it almost certain we can relax for another season.

James Garner was the MotM for me.

IMWT2

Strongly dispute the criticism of Beto... their keeper did very well, that last chip was bound for the top corner if not for a great save, the pass to Alcaraz was NOT on, and Charly's tantrum was less than seemly.

I thought we threw away 2 points against Man Utd and I am really disappointed we didn't win tonight. Beto had four chances, two of which he really should have scored.

Two points from two games with a depleted squad is better than zero points – but it should have been six.

Definitely over the top, would it not be great to get Calvert-Lewin back from injury?

Good overall performance by us, I wish we had more options off the bench.

Well done Moyes and the team, a never-say-die attitude.

At that level, he has to score at least one.

"Fairytale of Bramley Moore Dock" perhaps?

Very, very impressive start from Moyes.

A gritty performance, you can see Beto's shortcomings but, he also gave us an outlet and is becoming a real handful to play against, and I'm sure the goals will continue if he keeps getting in areas that will always give him chances and he gets back to keeping the ball on the floor!

The best thing about tonight was that I'm no longer exasperated when I watch us and you can slowly begin to see the players gaining confidence. The rest should do us good and hopefully a few players are fit for the Wolves game in ten days time

Beto's first two chances one one-on-one, he should have scored, the last chance wasn't easy, but I can't fault his effort.

The 10-day break is badly needed, and hopefully we'll have more players back before Wolves.

Clearly safe now, and I expect us to put up more points that's remaining.

If Leicester don't win tomorrow, it will be the final confirmation we will be in BMD as a Premier League club next season, even if it is all but certain now anyway.

Thank you, Mr Moyes – take a bow.

Oh for a game changer on the bench. Shame about Beto not converting, but he's already scored more one one-on-ones in the past month than Calvert-Lewin probably ever will, so I'm willing to cut him some slack.

Overall, a good away point, especially coming from behind.

Never in my wildest dreams did I think we'd be more or less safe when not even out of February.

What a job the manager has done and I never doubted for one minute tonight that we wouldn't score.

I would never have said that under the other clown because, as soon as Wissa scored, that would have been game over under him.

Yes, Beto missed great chances tonight but let's credit him for the ones he's stuck away lately.

On another night, at least one goes in but the keeper made 2 good saves so let's not be too harsh.

As I said when he come back, I can't remember having too many sleepless nights when he was here last time. I couldn't say that under The Waiter, Frank, and Him who I can't mention.

Thanks, David and his threadbare squad, for giving us back our pride... at least for this season.

We've got an excellent striker here. and their centre-half should have been sent off for the first one, took Beto out.

O'Brien took his goal well and Moyes continues to confound his critics, of which I am one...but so far on a game by game basis he's doing OK, so fairplay to him.

10 (?) days off now to rest a day regroup.

When draws go from being 1pt gained to feeling like 2pts lost we must be doing something right.

The little fat southern bbc match commentator whos name escapes me always says - he should scored - every time a player has not even a half chance which always causes me to utter an expletive.
They are all easy from the side-lines.

Thought Beto did well to get onto those chances with pace and strength but was generally not getting much service and very little support.

The first one he tried to go around the keeper but being young and agile the keeper thwarted him, 1-0 to the keeper, the second one he tried to put away early on the ground and again the keeper got a touch to get it just around the post, the 3rd one he tried to loop over the keeper who managed the faintest of touches to again get it over the woodwork.

Thought our MF was tremendous today with special mention for Charly, Garner and Gana Gueye.

The flanks not so good with poor crosses and weak defending at times particularly our left flank which needs a boost in the summer.

We gave as good as we got, at the very least. Beto could have scored, of course. But their goalie understood that he prefers to hit the ball to the keeper’s left, anticipated and saved. Or, in the first instance, made him go the wrong way. Excellent goalkeeping.

We fully deserved O’Brien’s well taken equaliser.

And, of course, cautious Moyes settled for the point. Or, rather, he didn’t - he absolutely went for the win, despite his very limited options from the bench.

If you compare those two matches it's night and day. We showed precisely zero bravery in that first match and they were booed off the pitch. Tonight we had chances and the equaliser came from both full backs in the final third.

I'm not even too disappointed in Beto. He didn't do too much wrong for the second two chances. For the first one I don't think he ever quite regained his composure after the initial challenge.

The Charly/Beto combination looks like it's got legs. Charly can be a bit hungry (and he wasn't happy with Beto taking a shot) but I like his attitude. He looks nailed on right now to be a permanent deal.

By the way, a little bit of fortune for our equaliser as I thought there was a late challenge before the ball turned over. Referee looked like he put the whistle to his mouth and then changed his mind.

Mind you I also thought Gueye was fouled in the build up to their offside goal.

No complaints at all from me. We're playing out mid table fixtures now, the team is running on fumes, the matches have been coming twice a week, and yet we keep seeing the same drive and commitment right to the end of matches. They've earned their warm weather break.

Finally witnessing my Everton. Thank God we made that change. It was sucking the life out of me.

For a one on one situation, it's 3 phase:
1) Win the leg race and first to the ball;
2) Steady yourself and shoot on target;
3) See if GK can block it.

I'd say Beto did well on all occasions for (1) and did ok for (2). But the Keeper did come out calmly and position well enough.

Obrien ran 80 yards to get on the end of the cross, something unheard of under Dyche.

James Garner is looking like a midfielder that can stamp his authority on games. Gana Gueye looks like a footballer and not just a destroyer.

Massive credit to Moyes and the coaches for turning this around. I honestly didn't think he had it in him.

It's still obvious we lack quality down the flanks but even the lads playing there are putting a shift in.

I thought the ref had a decent game, I haven't said that for a while.

Beto on another night could have scored a hat trick. I think their goalie pulled off 3 good saves and one just hit him. He was their best player on the night which shows how many chances we had.

Garner was very good tonight though O'Brien did well again and got his goal for my motm. The lad needs to celebrate a bit more.

Harrison looks like he’s improving. Lindstrom on the other hand, not so much.

Moyes doing well, the team fighting till the end. A well deserved warm weather break.

Hippy dayz...

Credit to Moyes he has managed to get the team to typically battle and scratch out results that they might not have previously gained. That's a hallmark of Moyes' teams really. But its glaringly obvious that he just doesn't have the quality in the squad. We probably have three decent players, Branthwaite, Pickford and Ndiaye. Our midfield are bereft of creative talent and contribute very little in the way of goals (perhaps McNeil excepted). Every team needs to have midfielders chipping in with goals and most teams we play seem to have much more space to create chances from midfield than we do. Still too much lateral and backwards passing from our lads in my opinion.

Recruitment of creative midfielders and two strikers who can finish are definitely the priorities for our summer transfer dealings.

Alcaraz looks good. Right into the team and making impact.

As for Moyes, there’s so much credit to go around, but at the top of the list is his decision to bring big Jake into the fold. To think we were playing Ashley Young over him earlier in the season. I know, I know, old man Ashley did his part, but what a revelation O’Brien is and what a reflection of Dyche’s stubbornness that he was keeping him on the bench all season long.

Well earned point given how tired our legs were, another gritty performance.

I think the headline is very harsh on Beto Michael. Yes he had three one on ones with the keeper so should have scored at least one of them. But I also look at how he got himself into position for those three opportunities.

The other thing to keep in mind in my opinion is that his last effort was stopped by an absolutely top class save. That ball was heading for the top right hand corner but Flekken did really well to get a hand to it.

If you did a poll of premier league centre half’s on which of Everton’s centre forwards they would prefer NOT to play against it would be Beto by a landslide majority. He gives us a threat up front that we have’nt had for I don’t know how long. He will do me.

I have said it before but I am very impressed with O’Brien’s ability with the ball at his feet and the way he makes a pass. Terrific headed goal - it went exactly where he intended it to.

Another shout for Mykolenko. That was a terrific cross. He looked up and plonked it right on the spot where O’Brien needed it.

Alcaraz is a winner. Thelwell has done really well getting him in. Nailed on to be signed at the end of his lone spell. I’ll say it again - he has got “winner” stamped on his forehead.

I have gone from hiding behind the sofa for every game to fearing no one. What or who is responsible for this 180 degree change - answers on a postage stamp.

What’s our name!

Dave A/Laurie

I agreed on a fair result until I read Thomas Frank said the same which is what managers always say of a draw when they know they deserved to lose. 3 points lost lol

On the night it was another encouraging performance and we should really have beaten Brentford despite having a stretched and presumably quite knackered squad.

Lots of decent individual performances though there is room for improvement on the wings especially, neither Harrison or Lindstrom has a goal or assist between them this season which is not ideal despite their work rate.

Beto had a less satisfying day at the office but was probably due some misses and still showed the crucial ability to find chances. Shame he couldn’t bag one but the keeper did well also.

Really looking forward to a more relaxing end of the season and especially seeing Ndiaye back in the team, hopefully with McNeil at some point. Also looking forward to seeing more of Alcaraz and where Chermitti is at in his development.

Their keeper was MotM for them and they know they got 'lucky'.

But like the famous golfer said; "...some call me 'lucky', but the more I practice the luckier I seem to get."

Somedays they go in – somedays they'll stay out.

On another night he'd've got a brace. 1 he cocked up and the other 2 were very good saves by a very good keeper.

I would rather have seen Patterson than Young come on though.

It's chalk and cheese compared to what we witnessed before. We're seeing the strengths of these players now rather constantly seeing their weaknesses.

Last team to go down with that many was West Ham in 02/03 with 42. The average for the last 20 years has been 34 points. And we still have Southampton at home on the last day. We are safe.

Thank you Mr Moyes for taking away my stress in March to May - yet again.

Dyche must be kicking himself watching O'Brien acquit himself with such aplomb.

I also loved that we were still going in search of win the dying minutes.

I think those using Beto's weston to hammer DCL embarrass our fan base and demonstrate a rare degree of ignorance. Calvert- Lewin's abilty to take a long ball has been abused by every manager (including Carlo) since he came to the club. He's been used as an "out" rather than as a striker.

Beto (bless his heart) is a lovely man. He has deserved his recent run of goals through sheer hard graft. I love his goal celebration - although I cant figure it out.. But some on here really do need to pull themselves together..

The two strikers are roughly the same age and while one has spent most of his career in lesser leagues, the other has been playing top flight football since he was a kid. So how the fuck can the fella who has scored less goals despite playing in lower leagues and only ever being employed as a striker, be a better goal scorer than than somebody who (despite long injuries) has scored more than him playing all over the park at the very highest level ?

Calvert Lewin will be gone soon. He'll be free of the brainless tactics he has endured throughout his time here and he will be free of the grade A clowns who want to spend their whole time hating upon him.

Knowledgeable Evertonians ? Yeah right. These are the people who embraced Denis Stracqualursi's "huge heart" whilst Hounding Lukaku from the day he got here.

Breaking news...Calvert - Lewin hasnt played for a month. He may not play for us again. You are going to have to find somebody else to hate upon. you're also going to accept that the lovely Beto gave away a goal by misjudging the flight of the ball and missed three very easy opportunities to make amends. Nothing to do with DCL. He has this Weston all by himself

Totally Phil, we draw and end up pulling a further point ahead of the bottom 3. There is no way, in my opinion, the bottom 3 teams are getting to 32 points, I’ll be amazed if any of them get to 30 frankly. Throw in the goal difference and we are safe already.

The only reason Moyes is talking about 40 is because he doesn’t want the players to think about taking their foot off the gas.

He'll always have you shouting his name but not always for the right reasons.

In other words, Beto is not the long term solution. He might be a decent impact sub in the future but we need something different.

I hate to say it but look at the rs forwards. They are not huge units but they are quick (in body and mind), skilful and lethal in front of goal.

Fully agree Andrew.

He fully deserves the plaudits he's been getting lately but having watched his three one on ones several times over I think it's fair to say that two out of three were straight at the keeper and no great saves required for those two at all.

As I posted earlier it shows that one on ones aren't as easy as some make out. I'll bring Haaland up again and say that he fails to score lots of one on ones, and how good a finisher is he?

There are very fine margins between scoring them and not. I've seen plenty hit badly and more or less straight at the keeper but they bounce off a knee or an elbow and still go in, and plenty hit well but saved.

It shows it's not an exact science, but two out of the three chances he had last night were "poorly finished" if we're judging him as a certain other of our striker's would be judged and that same striker would have been crucified for missing three in one match.

Our issue is that we have only one goal threat - and no options from the bench.

The RS have 6 senior players for their front 3.

It's a squad game and to kick on into the top half and beyond we need to really stock up on wing forwards with goal contributions.

His touch isn't always great, as seen last night, so doesn't really hold the ball up too often.

That's not being harsh on him, but it's better when we play to his strengths, which isn't as a target man in my opinion.

I still consider a fully fit DCL to be a better option than Beto.

They are a bunch of cheating bastards. But they do that well as well😉😀😀

I'm travelling home from Australia in April and hoping to attend the Arsenal game. Long shot, but would anybody know where I can get a pair of tickets please?

Seen loads of sites online claiming to be able to get you some, but Idon't trust them as I'm sure it's not that easy surely? Any help would be appreciated.

Was kind of frustrating to only come away with a draw. First half I thought was pretty even, but I think we were the better team in the second half, creating a fair few decent chances. Jake O’Brien must have been secretly seeing Dyche’s missus, for him not to be selected. Another solid display culminating in converting a fine header from a great cross by Mykolenko.

James Garner seemed to be everywhere, and probably my MOTM. On another day, Beto could easily have had a hat trick, but we said after his second and third one v ones you have to give their keeper credit. Had that been Pickford we’d all singing his praises. One v one isn’t as easy as some think.

So another point towards “Safety”, but I think we could lose every game from now on and still be safe, as the bottom three won’t be getting anywhere near 30 points. Moyes has done a great job since coming back, and with a ten day break, with a few days in Dubai to look forward too, we should come back raring to go and get wins at Wolves and at home to West Ham, before we cross the park and go to Tourist FC.

A goal every 112 minutes is top class. I doubt Beto will be able to sustain it but till he drops off talk of replacing him is premature.

Broja was an attempt to find that more talented striker with a tiny budget. It didn't pay off. It will be really, really hard to get hold of a striker who is currently better than DCL and Beto this summer.

It may be more fruitful to focus on the wing forward positions where, Ndiaye aside, we remain pretty terrible. Two more Ndiaye quality players would make a huge difference.

The second half belonged to us, and had Beto even scored one of his 3 one on ones the result would have gone our way. I suppose a draw was fair under the circumstances. Ten days to get ready for another away visit to Wolves.

Hopefully work on a few things before then. Beto's one on ones, Alcaraz's positioning and long range shooting with Jimmy Garner joining him on the latter. Thought Harrison and Lindstrom both pretty anonymous for too long in the game.

Still unbeaten in seven, can't be bad !

Beto trying to play the DCL role under Dyche was appalling. DCL scored the best goal seen at GP or years as soon as Dyche was gone

But right now one is scoring goals and one isn't. The stats show clearly that over the last year or two DCL has been one of the most wasteful strikers in Europe. He's not and has never been an excellent finisher but he has other useful qualities and is likely a better footballer overall than Beto.

I'm not hammering DCL, i'm sure he'll bounce back but it will likely be for another team as he does not seem to want to sign a new contract.

If you want bigger picture then DCL over his entire career has scored a goal every 275 minutes while Beto has managed one every 190 minutes. Obviously DCL has done it (mostly) at a higher level but nonetheless I think it's Beto who is the more natural goalscorer.

Dyche would have called him out. With ifs and buts, citing ‘they’ the players and ‘he’ Beto.
Moyes praised him for getting in those positions. Knowing he thrives off confidence. Moyes cites ‘us’ and ‘we’ Everton, the team.
What a difference a Manager, a man manager, makes.

Glad the break is coming so I don't have to decide where to go this weekend. Edinburgh derby, and hopefully blasting out "Sunshine on Leith" at full time!

I also think its worth mentioning that this is without Ndaiye our most creative player and McNeil who probably has the best delivery at the club. Added to missing DCL, Broja and Chermetti and last night had to do without Doucoure.
I am sure the warm weather training in the UAE will give the group some much needed rest and recovery, they have had a few very intense games against Liverpool and Man Utd fairly close together and with a depleted squad that takes its toll.

'The two wingers, Harrison and Lindstrom, going forward, they were fucking shit.'

'...and I couldn’t settle on a motm. I edged for O’Brien but. went for Harrison'

'Thought Harrison and Lindstrom both pretty anonymous for too long in the game.'

My particular favourite comment this thread..

'Knowledgeable Evertonians ? Yeah right. These are the people who embraced Denis Stracqualursi's "huge heart" whilst Hounding Lukaku from the day he got here.'

I was definitely guilty of saying something like that about Lukaku from time to time. All he seemed to do was score goals, wasn't a team player...bit like saying without Gary Lineker and his goals we would have won the league that year :)

However last night, all three were well outside the area when he broke away, he had to take several touches, and maybe his mind was whirling as to how he was going to finish? Something to work on in the warm sun of Dubai over the next few days.

'Regardless, the fact that Everton were able to create so many clear opportunities for the striker is something they can be pleased with. It underpins the Toffees improved attacking output under their new boss, as they have already matched the number of goals they managed in Sean Dyche's 20 games prior.'

I appreciate it's sometimes difficult to compare 2 managers performances due to the teams played, the particular time of the season games are played, certain teams suffering from loss of form/ injuries etc, but at the moment, it's like chalk and cheese.

'Since the beginning of the 2022/23 season, Everton have won just one of their 23 Premier League matches without Abdoulaye Doucoure (D9 L13) posting a win percentage of just 4.3 per cent, compared to a win percentage of 33.8 per cent with him in the side.'

Looking solely at those stats, Doucoure would be in my Everton team. Sky suggesting we miss him when he's not playing.

However, to balance it, how many games have we won, drawn and lost when he has played...

I prefer facts

DCL has played and scored more goals than Beto because he is a vastly superior player and has always been selected - At a higher level.

While Beto lost his confidence and played very poorly under Dyche for a year, missing virtually fleeting chance which came his way. DCL has endured year after year of that sort of service.

Your stats may be telling you that one of these players are scoring and the other isn't, but my facts are telling me that one of them cant score because he is out with a serious injury and the other is enjoying the most support given to an Everton striker for years.

Your stats tell you Beto is the better goalscorer, but my facts tell me DCL has scored more and his have all been in top flight football.

I don't agree that you are "not hammering DCL". You are and you are choosing carefully selected stats with which to do it.

I honestly believe that the constant bashing of our best player has played a very big part in his decision to run down his contract. Look no further than this thread ? Beto has a total total nightmare yet despite the fact that he is out injured, DCL is taking more stick. Why on earth would he want to stay ?

I love Beto and want him to continue scoring, but I have no doubt in my mind that a section of our fan base are driving out a player who is superior in just about every department. As the old saying goes; Form is temporary. class is permanent

“I think those using Beto's weston to hammer DCL embarrass our fan base and demonstrate a rare degree of ignorance”

“he will be free of the grade A clowns who want to spend their whole time hating upon him”

“Knowledgeable Evertonians ? Yeah right”

What’s it like up there?

BTW you cut out the bit where I said they ( The knowledgeable Evertonians) loved and embraced Stracqualursi and hounded Lukaku. Why was that ? Do you deny it ?

Feel very free to challenge my points

It was notable that in the 2nd half Brentford played much deeper to nullify his threat in behind. That allowed us to gain territory and play in their half.

Under Moyes we actually try to move the ball, create space and trust the players. This led to numerous excellent crossing positions, which were wasted until the goal.

After we scored Brentford pushed up again and Beto got the final chance (which he did brilliant to latch onto). Against teams who play a high line and with players now attempting to create, he'll get chances.

It's fascinating watching Everton atm. After the tactical turpitude of recent years the change is fundamental. There's a coaching team who have a plan based on the players available, are willing to tweak and amend things and actual evidence (O'brien, Beto, Lindstrom) of proactive 1-2-1 coaching.

Coaching to try and improve things? Now there's a novel idea!

How am I hammering DCL? We are agreeing on the fact that that he is the better player overall. And has scored more goals.

You told me to look bigger picture so I did. I used the stats/facts that encompass their whole career which show that DCL has scored more goals but has also had more playing time (something you keep omitting). I said that the level of games should be taken into consideration of course though arguably Serie A is a harder league to score goals in?

I think you may be trying to pick a fight with the wrong person here as I am and have always been a big supporter of DCL. He's a good player and I'll be sad when he leaves. But if you think he has not been wasteful in front of goal for a sustained period then you have not been paying attention.

Him and Beto are different types of players and yes overall I believe DCL is the superior one but Beto is clearly in better form at the moment than DCL has been all season.

Better than Pickford, Branthwaite, Ndiaye, Gueye, to name a few?

I think DCL has been unfairly treated at times, and the booing of him at Villa a disgrace. But our best player?

I think it's very telling that the live forum (which I hardly ever use) was littered with disparaging remarks towards DCL. While excuse after excuse was being made for Beto's woeful performance. I thought this thread was going the same way.

It's up to others whether they think you were hammering DCL. I've said how it appears to me

BTW Sam I did not omit the fact that DCL has played more - Look at first para on post 103.

I repeat; DCL did not play last night.

Somehow, I just feel the football is a lot better than the 7-2 aggregate for Big Sam's first six games.

Myko made his first Premier League assist last night in his 100th appearance and about 8000 minutes.

I thought Beto was unlucky not to get one last night

Now I'm not trying to pick a fight either but if it had been DCL who had failed to convert one of the three one on ones last night he'd have been slaughtered on here, absolutely slaughtered.

I guarantee nobody would have posted "DCL was unlucky" etc.

As I said I think him and Beto offer different things. DCL is more likely to knit things together and Beto is more likely to find a chance. Crucially one looks like he will be here next season and one won’t.

It will be interesting to see who Moyes uses when/if DCL is fit again.

There's really no need to debate it. Just enjoy that with one striker out injured we have another who can come in and score a few. Maybe we might even see a third striker introduced at some point and find out if he's any good.

I don't know whether we'll see DCL again. I think it's a shame if that's him done as he's given a lot to the club and could feel a bit aggrieved at some of the shitty assignments he was given and the treatment he received. I genuinely hope he does well in the future. Though I'm still holding out some hope that this new era can convince him that he's better off at BMD.

I am not challenging your points - I’m challenging your attitude.

I think the reason those Evertonians liked Denis Straq was because when he pulled the shirt on it was all about the team and the privilege of playing for the club. I, like quite a few others, went right off Lukaku when it became obvious that he wanted away and made no attempt to hide it from anyone. It was his attitude that got on my wick.

Finally, as far as hating is concerned - I don’t hate anyone. I don’t think I can afford to.

You were getting all shirty because when I pointed out the attitude towards Stracq and Lukaku. You didnt like it because the cap fitted you like a glove.

Wondered why you edited that bit out when quoting me.

Oh well. I dont see anywhere where you were accused of hating, but you`re as entitled to your opinion as the next man

Beto was slaughtered on the live forum though. Also, DCLs chance missing history is much longer tbf. If Beto carries on missing like last night, I'm sure the comments will turn.

Atm, I'm just glad we are making chances and trying to play a form of progressive football rather than what we've had to endure.

I do find that there is always an overreaction to some of the players on here. Andy Crooks nails it when he speaks about how Dominic would be performing in this set-up. I really think posters who use stats about his strike rate over the last 3 years must not understand what has happened to him in that time with regards to a serious injury and then how he has been used when back to peak fitness. His overall performance against Tottenham was absolutely fantastic and shows that he is still top class and the best we have got. I have argued all season that we have 3 really decent strikers at the club when all are fit with different traits and delighted that the less talented of the 3 is doing so well. We also have Chermiti to see as a 4th.

Again we see a lot of criticism for our wide players which I can't fathom. Harrison put so many teasing balls in last night where if DCL was fit I think he would have had a field day. I was delighted with Jack as he is slowly getting better and a little more confident every game. I would love to see him get a match winner as I think he was the player who suffered more than anyone under Dyche. Even Moyes mentioned this.

Lindstrom also getting a bit of stick yet he has played the last two games with a virus. Fair play to him for not shirking like a lot of players do. For me I think the United game changed when he went off and this boy has a great attitude and is developing nicely under Moyes. I liked a couple of times he and Charly interchanged and that is something I hope to see more of as this will really play to Jesoer's strengths.

Sorry Ernie just read your post where you made the same point.

Agreed mate.

Out of interest when do people think we'll actually be "safe"?

Personally I think mid April.

Useful tool here
Link

Fully agree!

I guess you could make case for a few like Saha and Ferguson and Yakubu - but really they all fell short for one reason or another.

If you extend it to wing forwards its probably only Richarlison and Kanchelskis. Again you could make a case for one or two others but generally nearly but not quite types like Mirallas or talented but injured / has beens like Limpar or Rodriguez.

The numbers and quality of our attacking options needs great attention if we're to kick on as a club.

Moyes never addressed that in his first spell despite spending what would now be £40m to £65m on each of Yakubu, Beattie and Johnson. He didn't address it at West Ham either despite (I think it was him but may be corrected) big spending on Haller (€50m) and Scamacca (€38.5m).

He did however do a good job of developing Bowen.

That's how I think we need to approach it thus summer (and how I think we will approach it) - finding players of lower cost (sub £25m), workrate and some quality to develop into a player like Bowen (who is definitely top 6 standard - albeit not necessarily a starter for the richest clubs).

It would have been an interesting one had that gone to VAR, because it could have been a red card. I admit to not knowing if the outcome would have gone in their favour because it was accidental and there was no intent??

I don't see the need to bring Calvert-Lewin into this. He hasn't played for weeks and may not even play for Everton again.

All I would add, is that any Everton striker of the past couple of seasons has lead a lonely existence, feeding off scraps with little support.Beto has flourished recently because he has runners in support, either to play through the lines and put him through on goal, or to play off him.

Who cares about DCL? I wouldn't give him a minute's exposure. He's taking his ball elsewhere.

Let's concentrate on the players who want to be here.

I meant mathematically, Kev. You know us Evertonians, we're not used to relaxing!

Talking about wing forwards, there is no 'probable' about Kanchelskis — only here for one season but he stood out, I think, for everyone that season.

Wing forward, I'd put up Gary Speed as well. Came from Leeds on the right, and slowly moved into the middle. Arteta as well started out there, and was a high performing wide right/central type.

In terms of strikers, Robert is right. I'd throw in Peter Beardsley as being Champions League class with us. He was a brilliant player, but came to a team unable to match his ability and footballing brain. 2 seasons with us, and another 4 seasons at Newcastle where he scored nearly 60 goals.

Of course the setup, team, manager any player is playing with should be taken into account. And I've no doubt that DCL could do much better in this Moyes team. But that doesn't mean you can't compare them. Whoever is picking between them when DCL is fit will have to compare them in order to make the decision!

Naturally the stats only paint part of the picture but they talk of one player high on confidence and one player not. Of course that could change quite quickly.

Further diving into the stats will show what I've said earlier which is that (irrelevant of manager) Beto seems to both get and convert a higher proportion of chances whilst DCL will hold the ball and create better. That holds for when they were both playing under Dyche.

If DCL gets fit, there is a very good chance Moyes will prefer him, though possibly not while Beto keeps scoring a goal every 112 minutes!

Yeah, we should have won last night and Beto should have had a hat-trick but it's a lot better than moaning about a defender's slip that cost us a point. Moyes may have just realised that where we are headed requires a more positive way and his experience at West Ham is aligning with our future. I wrote him off but I hope he does a Kendall to prove me wrong.

Andy @88, I'm in Perth, Australia. My brother has tickets available now and then but not guaranteed. Give me a call: 0412473564.

Doucoure works his socks off, without success. It's great to see a proper Number 10 in the side.

Doucoure is and has been first choice in his position for several of our managers, he must be doing something right.

Alcaraz is a very good player I'm not disputing that, theres room for him elsewere in the team, I wouldn't drop Doucoure for him.

Loads about you know who, women's football and Scottish games, but try finding Everton!

I stand corrected after looking again there is a small piece about the game.

Speed and Arteta certainly played wide at times but neither were ever remotely modern style wing forwards - very definitely midfield players.

Across the major leagues, fast and skilful and versatile wing forwards are often the difference-makers for top clubs playing a 4-3-3 or 3-4-3.

If we ever want to get past 6th place, these are the sorts of players we need to find and invest in.

The first chance Beto missed was absolutely woeful, he tried to go round the goalie but went the wrong way, running to where a defender was. I don't know why he didn't hit it as soon as he steadied himself. The second one he hit straight at Flekken.

Beto has been great lately. I'm not going to hammer him but I thought they were poor finishes,

Connor, I agree with you about Lindstrom, I like him, clever footballer, but he is no winge. I thought Alcaraz played well also, putting Beto through on goal on a couple of occasions.

We should have won that game after a much-improved second-half performance compared to the first half – it's like night and day compared to the shite Dyche served up.

However, I think this is because we've been too poor to buy anyone of real quality – not because he's genuinely good.

His main quality is workrate and versatility, which has served us well fighting against relegation. But he doesn't offer a lot beyond that.

Mykolenko is steady, O'Brien is doing a job at right-back for a centre-back. But we have to look for better full-back options.

There's plenty of room for improvement, through shrewd dealing and astute loans. It's going to be a fascinating Summer.

For once, I know we'll be active, and the excitement will be building for a new season at BMD.

However against Man Utd he changed that selection criteria and even though Alcaraz had scored and created an assist against Palace he was dropped and Doucouré played. The result, Doucouré missed a chance to make it 2 - 0 and then allowed a United player to enter the wall. That 'gap' was where their first goal was scored. This 'no matter how you play' as soon as a 'regular' is fit then they will be selected policy has to have an effect on players like Beto and Harrison.

Also Moyes stop talking internally about survival LOOK at your team.

Pickford England goalkeeper, Branthwaite, Centre half that Liverpool, Madrid and Man Utd are all raising funds to buy. A wing back, Gueye with currently the BEST tackling record in the whole of Europe. Another wing back Garner who since his return has delivered stunning passes that Even Thomas Frank acknowledge before the game were amazing. Upfront we have Alcaraz who I believe Messi said was a really good player.

Beto with a, before last nights game, conversation rate of 40% is very powerful fast and difficult to knock off the ball BUT he has one major fault he does not pass when he feels his position in the team is threatened or limited (2nd para above). He had a chance to pass to Alcaraz but tried a futile attempted himself when Alcaraz had a much better chance.

The team players above are good enough to qualify for Europe this season. We are lucky that Chermiti will be ready to play after the break. He has the ability to link up with Alcaraz or Beto in unpredictable ways that will produce many goals for us. But he needs to play even coming on as a sub or maybe Moyes could play him like Dyche did one full game against Brentford (April 24) which we won 1 - 0 but should have been 2 - 0 but Doucouré skied it over the bar from the penalty spot a reoccurring theme from Doucouré last season and this season.

If we qualify for Europe this year we stand a good chance of keeping all the players I mentioned above plus another £20+ in prize money

You did say £20+.

Thought you were just being cautiously conservative.

Here is another tool. How well did the teams they replaced do last season.

Luton last season - from the 12 fixtures that haven't happened this year = 5 points. So far Leicester 17 points from 26 games. Luton for those 26 fixtures got 21 points. You really feel Leicester are going to seriously outperform Luton and get 15 points from those games when they have done worse so far?

Burnley last season - From the 11 fixtures that haven't happened this year = 8 points. So far Ipswich 17 points from 27 games. Burnley for those 27 fixtures got 16 points. You really feel Ipswich are going to seriously outperform Burnley and get 15 points from those games when they are doing no better than Burnley so far?

Southampton - yeah. Relegated. 23 points from 11 games when they have 9 from 27.

Stop being so Everton and looking down not up.

When do I think we will be safe? When we drew with the ****** two weeks ago and got to 27 points.

Everton FC are a changed club in a very short time under David Moyes and it is there for all to see in terms of goals being scored and points accumulated as much as it is with the revitalisation of certain players who were deemed surplus to requirements.

The team depart now for warm weather training and a well deserved break from play.

We are essentially safe from relegation now and are a club looking up rather than down. Players due to come back for the run-in and a manager who has delivered a feel-good factor just in time for our goodbye to Goodison.

Given the torrid last number of years, this is finally a time for Evertonians everywhere to open the windows and breath fresh clean air for the first time in a long time. UTFT

His pass to Beto that continued the move for our second goa on Saturday gave me a glimpse of what I think he could offer if he moved inside. But I don't think he's offering much playing on the outside and I wouldn't be signing him if it was to play in the position he his currently occupying.

But Colin, I can think of a half-dozen better goals scored at Goodison in the past couple of years than Dom's last one. And he is not, and never has been, our best player. No sir.

Doucoure cannot trap a bag of cement, his retainment of the ball is useless, his passing is atrocious, he cannot tackle. His work rate is like a headless chicken, he just follows the ball. So, when we get a quick break to attack, Doucoure is not where he should be.

I feel excited when Alcaraz gets the ball. Definitely not when Doucoure receives it. It's nothing personal, just strictly business.

This 10-day rest will give the players a chance to recharge their energy levels and hopefully have a couple of the injured players back. Both Patterson and Chermiti were on the bench last night and a chance Ndiaye might be back as well, throw in Doucoure returning and our squad looks so much better.

They've done great the barebones of a team that have gone unbeaten in 7 games. This break has come at the right time for Everton.

I get some would prefer to have a cup game this weekend, wouldn't we all, but the break will do us good and hold us in good stead for a final push of the season.

Regroup in the summer, get players back, get players in through the transfer window, then start looking at one of the cups next season.

The obsession to improve as a footballer not necessarily for monetary means but for professional reasons.

If they did, their accuracy would improve every week and so would their enjoyment of the game.

It's strange he is always on the team sheet if he is available!

As I said before, I'm a fan of Alcaraz too, but have them both in the team.

That DCL and Beto are Premier League players at all is largely down to their hard work and determination. Neither has a lot of natural talent. They have probably done much better in the game than was ever expected of them.

Philogene has turned us down twice now. No way. We do have our pride.

Much as I like Ipswich, for him to choose them over us and then get relegated – Sweet sunshine. You have made your bed, not lie in it.

Philogene didn't prefer Ipswich. Villa preferred Ipswich's bid.

One of your comments about Doucoure made me laugh:

"His work rate is like a headless chicken, he just follows the ball. So when we get a quick break to attack, Doucoure is not where ye should be."

I was watching the game at the weekend with a Man Utd supporter friend and I was saying something similar about Doucoure, just before he started a move, followed the ball during a quick attacking break and ended up where he did and put the ball in the net.

It's all in the timing...

Next 5 games for Leicester are against top 6 teams. They’re doomed

“ whilst Hounding Lukaku from the day he got here.”

If you read my post again you will see that it was when he started his “come and get me” attitude that I went right off him. That may seem irrational to you but it is how I am when it comes to Everton.

I will admit to this though. When people wanted him back I did disgrace myself on here with a comment I made. Something I truly regret and for which I later apologised in a post because I was right out of order.

Should he have scored last night? Obviously, but he kept running and trying, and this willingness to run helped him get another chance right at the death, and this type of effort becomes infectious.

Beto is not a natural footballer, well versed in playing with his back to goal, and this must be the reason he never did much, but look like a very cumbersome player under Dyche, but when you play it in behind and ask him to run, then he suddenly has defenders in trouble.

Early days but if a player is going to keep improving then he’s got to keep producing the effort, and when you produce the effort, then most people will get right behind you.

Not many would have been sad to see Beto leave, and yet just one month later, most of us will be very glad that he didn’t, even though he never scored last night!

Be obsessed and you'll reach the pinnacle?

Doesn't always work, and not everybody has to be obsessed to reach the pinnacle.

Plus, I'm guessing that you're only guessing about DCL and Beto anyway, because I doubt you know either of them personally.

Almost nobody reaches the top .001% of their field of endeavor without being dedicated to maximum performance, and both Beto and DCL have achieved that. Tell me, are your software friends supremely conditioned to work their keyboards and overcome violent carpal tunnel injuries? And are others at their level of software design actively trying to prevent them from succeeding by kicking them around the ankles?

The comparison is ludicrous.

Your old neighbour should have obsessed about being a billionaire!

Mike (168) I hope you don't work in legal, maybe marketing because I did not say I was an expert I mentioned two people that achieved success primarily because of their obsession but if you want more examples please read the book 'Bounce' by Mathew Syed or read what Tiger King did growing up or the Williams sisters or what David Beckham did in his spare time. Also remember that Kings dad did not know the rules of golf likewise the Williams dad knew nothing about tennis. In bounce it also mentions 3 sisters they were the first three women grandmasters and many many other examples. However I did not know any of those people.

There is a downside to obsessive behaviour, it cost my software mate his marriage. You are right Mike nobody kicked his ankles but they did dispute his worth until my mate broke ground in new areas of software going beyond the three amigos if you know software you will know them.

Mike I was also alluding to the real prospect of both players working with other experience professionals they would get 'extra' expert drills if they request it. I did not see Beto's ankles being kicked for the three opportunities that he had against Brentford.

For improvement to quote Socrates " I know you won't believe me but the highest form of human excellence is to question one self and others".

Obsessiveness to an extreme is a very bad thing and hence the term OCD.

Brendon (169) It would not surprise me if he was on his way. He started by importing and selling cars (before the Euro) then moved into commercial transaction consultancy and then into buying and renting houses. His son told me he had 20 houses in 2010 so I feel safe in thinking he probably has 30+ now.

Link

It may well be that he has that personal trait that you are talking about. It brings a smile to my face because it could also mean that the best is yet to come from the lad.

To Mike's point, these players don't get where they are without those attributes and a bit of luck along the way, like in any walk of life. Right place, right time as they say.

I always like to remind people that, whilst easy to point to wages and privileged lifestyles, we often forget the sacrifices young players and their families make on the journey, with no guarantees of success. From an early age, often losing many of the normal things in life that we take for granted. It's why I'm not a huge fan of the academy system in its current structure.

In football, forwards are an interesting beast. Stereotyping, they are generally selfish, and they should be. The first to sulk and get a strop on, always needing an arm around them.

Lineker wasn't a great football, but was quick and knew where the goal was. Everton played to those strengths.

Lukaku was strong, not a particularly good footballer, accused of being lazy, but used his strength and scored goals.

Andy Johnson and Marcus Bent worked had to make up for any shortfalls.

Beto has been a victim of how Everton were using him. Now that we are playing balls in front of him to run behind the defence, he is getting and taking more chances.

You recently came on this website making the staggering claim that DCL had never scored a great goal. Your reluctance to give him credit is well documented. but if you have seen "at least half a dozen" better goals scored at Goodison in recent years than the one where he turned three defenders inside out and slotted. I would loved to have seen them. I've missed one home game in the last five years... Perhaps they were all scored then.

For the life of me I don't understand the logic in the argument both you and Sam present about Beto being a better finisher. The simple fact remains that DCL has scored more in a higher league over their respective career`s

Sams claim that Beto has more chances and has a higher conversion rate just doesn't stack up. If he actually does get more chances then he must miss more to have scored less.. You cant have it both ways.

It was Beto who missed the chances on Wednesday (He has lots of previous too) and DCL should not even be part of this match thread - that was kinda my original point.

I find it impossible not to like Beto and I would love him to do a "Chris Wood", but I cant allow myself to be blinded by a month long Purple patch.

One player is liked and for some reason the other is despised by a considerable section of the fan base. That is obviously clouding judgement here, because the guy who is loved has spent the first ten years of his career operating several rungs down the ladder from the fella who isn't. There is a very good reason or that.

You we’re criticizing me yesterday for selective stats but one thing you keep ignoring is that DCL has played twice as many minutes over his career than Beto. So it’s hardly surprising that he has more goals!

The claim that Beto score's every 112 minutes is a very carefully selected stat. He is coming up to 200 league games and if his scoring rate was even half of what you claim. He would have have had the top clubs in Europe banging down his door.

You claim you are not criticising DCL, but you carefully avoid mentioning that, unlike Beto. He has been employed to do many different jobs, in various positions. You don't mention the many, many matches where the set up has been so negative. the team could barely muster an attack, let alone create a chance, nor do you mention the fact that several managers have played him knowing he was injured.

It would be very easy to praise Beto without trying to denigrate DCL with stats that don't even come close to telling the true story... Why cant people just do that ?

When I said that Beto was scoring a goal every 112 minutes I made it entirely clear I was talking about this season which was relevant because we were talking about current form.

It's totally fair to point out that DCL played a fair few games out wide or even at right back at the start of his career. Obviously there are thousands of factors that affect these players performances and output and unless you want a thesis we can't go into all of them. But how many games a player has played is a pretty major factor.

I'm not denigrating DCL but as with all players he has his faults. Him and Beto have different strengths. I'm surprised that should seem controversial to some people.

Probably the best comparison in recent years, along the lines of your point would be Rooney and Ronaldo.

I can't remember who made the comparison, probably a few, maybe even Sir Alex himself? But it was suggested that Rooney had better natural ability than Ronaldo, when they were younger.

Ronaldo worked harder than our Croxteth lad and ended up being the better player, over the course of a glittering career that endured and is still going at the age of 40 as far as I am aware?

Rooney arguably relied on his natural talent. He still had a glittering career, with many achievements, but a combination of not working as hard as Ronaldo coupled with his lifestyle. As we witnessed on his return, the legs were gone by his early 30s.

Caveats. I don't know or have any inside information, just from what saw and read or heard in discussion over the years.

I think Ferguson lessened Wayne’s career by using him all over the field attacking and defending year after year, great for United and Ferguson not so much for Rooney.

As Bob Paisley said about Roger Hunt the amount of running on and off the ball Alf Ramsey had him doing for England shortened his career with Liverpool.

Firstly I would never use "stats" when the official records are so readily available and secondly I did not ignore the fact that DCL has played more games I address that fact in post's 103 + 109.

The dangers of using often ill-informed stats are highlighted by your claim that DCL has played twice as many games. Check the facts - He is well over 100 games short of doing that.

Beto has not come close to scoring a goal every 112 minutes at Everton or anywhere else and you must realise that presenting figures based solely on the best scoring spell of his entire career (the past month) is bound to produce a distorted and misleading figure. DCL`s injury during this more adventurous period makes comparisons kind of redundant.

Anyway Sam. Although we are not far away on the way we see several of these issues. I don't think either one of us are going to change the others mind on the fundamental point. We will have to agree to disagree my friend.

Thank you for the debate

Also thank you for pointing out I got it wrong in post 178 but in 175 you'll see I meant DCL has played around twice as many minutes (16491) as Beto (8766). I got these figures off whoscored but if you have a better source then please do tell me. What are the official records you refer to out of interest?

I agree that stats can often be misused and misrepresentative which is why I try to be careful when using them. Once again I did not claim that Beto has scored a goal every 112 minutes at Everton, I said he had this season. 8 goals across 900 or so minutes (not just the past month) which i've said repeatedly is not a massive sample size but is nonetheless impressive.

I agree that we seem close in viewpoint and I'm not even sure what the fundamental point of difference you are referring to is? Perhaps that i'm a Calvert-Lewin basher? Ha! I'm really not. I think he's a great player and has done sterling, often unappreciated, work for us. I'm a big fan of his but still see flaws as with all players.

Thanks for the debate and have a good weekend.

I’m sure having film star looks, being married to a Spice girl and being part of a very good United team would have helped with the hype Danny.

But surely he is at Ipswich because Everton couldn't afford the £20m it would take to buy him - not because he only likes playing football with his friends?

That seems to be the reason Kudus, Gibbs-White, Elanga and lots of others don't play for us too...

These players haven't rejected Everton as a club. The clubs that sold them just got better (or actual) offers from other clubs.

In the same way that Beto would now be at, say, Spurs if they'd have offered Udinese money up front instead of our £0 in year one proposal.

He did the wiser thing in leaving Everton and doing what was best for himself, Everton would have kept him back the longer he stayed with us playing for a club that lost it’s hunger for success but content to be on the outside looking in at the real successful clubs as long as we were comfortable in the top half of the table.

His transfer fee, although nowhere near as big as it should have been, saved the club financially at the time and further on big sales kept us going while all around parts of the club were being sold to keep us going so Wayne got himself out of that mess and eventually the man who sold him bought back gave him a huge wage when his natural talent was long gone and that wage was another burden on the club.

I thank him for those two years and didn’t begrudge him his transfer one bit but certainly missed his presence at Goodison Park.

Anyway, if we're worried about 23 year old Philogene being able to settle in without a few friends, spare a thought for all the foreign players who come here. The new lad Gomez has gone from the Gambia to Nigeria to Everton to Lyon and back all before hitting 19.

Rooney returned for pre-season ready to play after Euro 2004, and found that the club had been touting him around for sale.

“Before Euro 2004, I knew that I was getting touted to other teams - because Everton needed the money. Certain individuals were going into other clubs saying ‘would you take Wayne Rooney for £30m?’

“I was heartbroken, I loved the club and wanted to play for Everton.

“To find that out, I was devastated. I would have left at some point, of course I would’ve, to try and better myself and go and win trophies. But I was devastated.

“I went to Barbados after Euro 2004, I’d broken my foot obviously. I came back to Bellefield and was ready to go out and start running, and step up my training from a broken foot. I remember getting told you can’t do that because if your foot breaks down we won’t be able to sell you.”

Kenwright had negotiated his transfer to Chelsea.

At which point, Rooney told the club that if they wanted to sell him then he would only move Man Utd. As Everton were losing out on a bigger fee from Chelsea, he was forced to hand him a transfer request so the club wouldn’t have to pay contractual loyalty bonuses.

Classic Kenwright. And, of course the transfer fee allowed Bill to retain control of the club as he would not have been able to source new financing to meet operating costs.

Condemn stats, say you prefer facts, then offer opinions. I think that was it as far as I can make out.

I also like DCL as a player, but his current injury means he may have played his last game for Everton. So really I no longer care about him.

Beto is the player in form, scoring goals and contributing to our improving results.

By the way I didn’t know anything about Philogene ‘til I heard we were interested in him.

However when I look back and see other brilliant fantastic players lost to our Club for whatever reason my mind springs to Tony Kay and Billy Kenny.
Game changers for us

I've no doubt things happen that are brushed under the carpet, but all in all they seem to manage themselves very well.

We lost Rooney after 2 years in the team and kept Kenwright for another 19 years.

Surely the most damaging transfer sage in the history of football?

Stats can be selective.

They can be manipulated.

They can be misleading.

They can be ill-informed.

They can be in the eye of the beholder.

They are often compiled by idiots

They can and are often used to distort the true picture.

They are often in stark contrast to the evidence of your own eyes (Doucourie`s passing stats)

I'm with Winston Churchil - "I would never trust stats I hadnt doctored myself"

IMO Facts are a far sounder base upon which to base an opinion....or an argument

A quick google came up with this distinction: "Statistics is a science that involves analyzing facts. Facts are realities without arguments and false representations. When you collect several facts and then draw conclusions from them, you are creating statistics."

This supports what you're getting at I suppose though am not sure there is any clear arbiter of what is fact and what is stat!

I would wager that very few players get to dictate a move unless they have been influenced or, as in Rooney's case, they become aware that the club is touting them out. Then it becomes a case of them deciding on a place of their choosing.

That's why I don't like or pay too much attention to stats Colin. They can be manipulated and fixed to form an argument, support an opinion or shape a narrative. The goal posts can be shifted to do that.

It's not just football, but other walks of life, but I won't go there as we could get into a political debate!!

Yes I see and fully take on board your point.

Fair play

Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamp post; more for support than illumination.

Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable.

Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.

There are Lies, Damned Lies - and Statistics.

I dislike these football free weekends, international breaks etc.

Two more:

"If you need statistics to prove it, it isn't true."

"If all the statisticians in the world were laid head to toe, they wouldn't be able to reach a conclusion."

But dammit, I still love those little numbers. Stats are fun!