Season › 2024-25 › News Everton’s miserable early season continues with cup defeat to Southampton Lyndon Lloyd 17/09/2024 191comments | Jump to last Everton 1 - 1 So'ton [5-6 on pens] Everton lost this evening for the fifth time in six games as they gave up yet another lead and ended up losing on penalties in the Carabao Cup to fellow strugglers, Southampton. Abdoulaye Doucouré pounced to head the Blues into a 20th-minute lead despite an unconvincing start by Sean Dyche’s side but they were pegged back just 12 minutes later when Taylor Harwood-Bellis capitalised on awful defending to head home the equaliser. The hosts, who were left to count the cost of two spurned chances from Jesper Lindstrom when he just had the goalkeeper to beat, meandered their way through a tedious second half, much of it without a recognised striker after Beto was perplexingly withdrawn with an hour gone, and were eventually dumped out following yet another a shootout when Alex McCarthy saved from Ashley Young. With Dominic Calvert-Lewin, James Garner and Vitalii Mykolenko missing through illness, Dyche made eight changes in all to the team that started at Villa and was forced to improvise in defence where Dwight McNeil was initially deployed as a left back while Roman Dixon, overlooked against Doncaster, made his second start on the other side of defence. Article continues below video content Jake O’Brien partnered Michael Keane in the centre while Orel Mangala and Harrison Armstrong made their full debuts in midfield, Lindstrøm got his second start since arriving on loan from Napoli, and Iliman Ndiaye played to the left of Beto. Southampton, coached by Russell Martin to play a game heavily reliant on possession — gallingly, Everton would have just 26% of the ball on their own pitch against a team that played last season in the second tier! — set their stall out early to dictate the contest but after Adam Lallana put an early header wide, it was the home side who forced the first save of the evening. Armstrong powered past his man and played in Beto who took a touch before delivering a powerful shot from the angle that McCarthy beat behind for back-to-back corners, the second of which ended with McNeil flicking a header over the crossbar. It was from another corner eight minutes later that Everton seized the advantage, however, after Lindstrøm’s attempted cross had been diverted behind. McNeil sailed a dead-ball delivery deep past the back post where O’Brien did well to knock it back into the danger zone for Keane to head on and Doucouré to stoop and steer it beyond McCarthy and make it 1-0. The visitors sounded a warning shortly afterwards when Lallana picked Nathan Wood out with a cross but Joao Virginia, starting ahead of Jordan Pickford this time, denied his header before Charlie Taylor chipped in from the byline and Joe Aribo despatched a wayward header into the Gwladys Street End. It might have been 2-0 a minute later, though, when Lindstrøm was put clean through, albeit slightly wide of goal, but he could only send a weak shot into the keeper’s arms. Not long past the half-hour mark, though, it was 1-1. The otherwise laudable Dixon thundered through Ryan Fraser to conceded a free-kick in a dangerous area near his penalty area and when the resulting set-piece was whipped to the back post, Harwood-Bellis rose unchallenged by either Doucouré or McNeil to bury his header past Virginia. If Everton’s fans had been hoping for a bit more energy, purpose and control from their side in the second period, they were badly let down mistaken and the longer the game went on with the Blues looking decidedly second best, the more it looked as though it would be a case of penalties or defeat. Beto and Lindstrøm combined to create an even better opening for the Dane than his opportunity one-on-one against McCarthy when the Portuguese knocked into space for him to run but the final shot was smashed off the advancing goalkeeper’s body and away from goal. At the other end, Virginia did well after Fraser had profited from a fortunate ricochet off Keane by saving low by his near post while, later, Tyler Dibling belted a shot that struck substitute Ben Brereton-Diaz on its way to goal before the Chilean international had a chance himself when he charged through centre of Everton’s defence but was foiled by Virginia. Moments of entertainment and hope were in desperately short supply from Dyche’s men but after Beto was taken off and replaced by Young, to loud boos from many in the ground, his makeshift forward line did put together their best move of the game with eight minutes to go when Ndiaye flicked it inside to Lindstrøm, he nudged it on to McNeil but the final shot deflected up and over off Wood. Substitute Tim Iroegbunam headed the resulting corner over, Dibling almost won it before the end when he was allowed to dribble down the Saints’ right, cut inside and shoot, and Young hammered a wayward volley into the Street End setting up another unwanted penalty shootout. Every kick taker was perfect through the mandated 10 penalties before it moved into sudden death where James Bree netted at 6-5. The last kick of a ball at Goodison Park in the League Cup (hat-tip Andrew Jai Presley), the competition that Everton appear destined never to win and which has brought consistent misery under a succession of managers, was struck by Young, cannoned off McCarthy, then the post and out. And out went Dyche’s team. Given the pitiful start under Dyche, no one would argue that the Premier League is of paramount importance to a squad as stretched as Everton’s, but this was a chance to inject some confidence and optimism into the veins ahead of two hugely important fixtures against Leicester and Crystal Palace over the next 11 days and dampen talk about the manager’s future. That you couldn’t pin this defeat on the fact that there were two teenagers in the line-up — because the mistakes, the lack of guile, purpose and energy came from some of the more experienced players — is as damning of Dyche as the possession statistics which make for embarrassing reading given the standard of the opposition. Dyche will hope for good news in terms of the availability of some of this evening’s missing senior players before the trip to the King Power Stadium this weekend but much more of this and his position would, under normal circumstances, become untenable. Perhaps the only thing that would save him is the vacuum at the top of the Club and Everton’s desperate financial position. Matchday updates and reaction Reader Comments (191) Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer () Justin Doone 1 Posted 17/09/2024 at 23:20:13 I never like I don't give a flying carp about the league cup. I hope Dyche purposefully rested players for the kids and squad players, exactly what this comp is for.Glad we are out of it.Young on for Beto tells me Dyche doesn't rate or kid in a man's body of a striker either. Dixon and Armstrong held there own. A few raw, silly mistakes but they will hopefully learn quickly from them.As for possession stats, they're less meaningful than this cup. But what do people expect, it's what Dyche does.Frustrate, frustrate, frustrate. A long session ahead! Neil Lawson 2 Posted 17/09/2024 at 23:21:23 Currently a dreadful team mismanaged by an incompetent. Steve Hogan 3 Posted 17/09/2024 at 23:30:52 If ever a statistic summed up Dyche's tenure at Everton, it was the 26% possession tonight.We made Southampton look like Real Madrid at times.He's in a death spiral which I don't feel he'll get out of. Stu Gre 4 Posted 17/09/2024 at 23:40:13 Steve #3"He's in a death spiral which I don't feel he'll get out of."He will, we might not. Fred Quick 5 Posted 17/09/2024 at 23:42:04 Sean says that he thought it was a good performance, considering it was a side put together at lastminute.com People saying it was a much altered Everton team with many of our better players missing, what do they think that Saints had as they apparently made a number of changes to their starting line-up, yet they could still move the ball around properly for much of the game.Tonight:1 Alex McCarthy 6 Taylor Harwood-Bellis 14 James Bree 15 Nathan Wood 21 Charlie Taylor 7 Joe Aribo 10 Adam Lallana 22 Maxwel Cornet24 Ryan Fraser26 Lesley Ugochukwu9 Adam Armstrong Saturday: 30 Aaron Ramsdale 2 Kyle Walker-Peters 5 Jack Stephens 16 Yukinari Sugawara 35 Jan Bednarek 4 Flynn Downes 18 Mateus Fernandes26 Lesley Ugochukwu17 Ben Brereton19 Cameron Archer33 Tyler Dibling Christine Foster 6 Posted 17/09/2024 at 23:42:32 Watched what I could on a French stream, even the commentators sounded bored.. but it was pretty dire at the same time pretty predictable. Once more, irrespective of who is actually on the pitch, the shape and strategy was awful, 25% possession against a second string team of a club almost certainly destined to go down. I could weep.I have no idea who was fit, ill or unavailable for this one, but the utter lack of shape, strategy or control, at home, says to me that the dressing room has lost all belief in the manager. To sub a striker after 60mins with a full back was plain stupid and Goodison Park let Dyche know it. I think he is finished. I think he knows it too. No longer a case of if but when. He deserves the plaudits for keeping us up, but he has only ever bought us time, I think it's run out for Sean Dyche. He can justifiably point to players sales, off pitch noise and the paucity of quality replacements, but it his failure to change, adapt style or players positional, that is inexplicable. His plan isn't working but there is no plan B. I hope a new owner comes with an alternative plan, I hope it's quick because the longer this goes on the worse it's going to get. Si Cooper 7 Posted 17/09/2024 at 00:14:12 “To sub a striker after 60mins with a full back was plain stupid and Goodison Park let Dyche know it.”That isnt quite what that substitution was about and I think the boos were specifically because it was Ashley Young.We started with only three recognisable defenders, which cost us their goal as they had an advantage at the back post, and Young coming on was, reasonably, to get Ndiaye and McNeill more advanced.The performance was turgid overall and we couldnt seem to jolt them out of very moderately paced ball retention stuff.Doucoure showed he just doesnt work as a standard midfielder. Paul Rattle 8 Posted 18/09/2024 at 00:19:43 Sad that this may well be the last ever Cup match at Goodison Park.Stained by failure in the typical Everton fashion, destroyed by a manager so negative he probably steps backwards before going in his own front door. Christine Foster 9 Posted 18/09/2024 at 00:37:53 Si, I think perhaps it was the actual combination of replacing Beto with Young, a full back, at home, level.. no presence anywhere on the pitch.. no shape. I think most gave up on Dyche at that point.. Bill Fairfield 10 Posted 18/09/2024 at 01:13:29 Were like a piece of driftwood bobbing along on the ocean, going nowhere in particular.Its just awful. Youre on a downer just travelling to the game.The club needs clearing out top to bottom. Si Cooper 11 Posted 18/09/2024 at 03:20:42 Christine, it wasnt a switch to a back five, trying to shut up shop move though was it, although some will characterise it that way?It was a move to go for a winner.Ill slate the manager for plenty but I thought that substitution was a reasonable throw of the dice. Andy McNabb 12 Posted 18/09/2024 at 04:34:37 So Chelsea get Barrow and we get another Premier League side. Oh well, I suppose it would have been even worse to go out on pens to Barrow?Sympathy for Young. Whether you rate him or not and no matter how experienced, he is still a human being. Interesting comment from Dyche afterwards saying people should be free to express themselves. Really? Even when their psyche bypasses wisdom or any level of empathy?I wonder if Young would have missed that pen if he hadnt been affected by the booing when he came on? Ian Jones 13 Posted 17/09/2024 at 04:55:58 Paul @ 8...'destroyed by a manager so negative he probably steps backwards before going in his own front door.'That sums it up :)I don't think possession stats are all that relevant in some cases. It's what you do with it that matters. Southampton did control the play and the number of completed passes will show Southampton had far more than us but were mostly going knowhere. Having said that we were so poor to watch. I watched the match on Sky so don't get to see the whole picture with off the ball movement etc...but some players seemed to get frustrated at their attempts to create something. At one point in the second half Lindstrom went on one mazy run, lost the ball and stopped and started walking back.No shape, midfield looked all over the place. Don't think you can blame the forwards too much. They're probably as frustrated as the fans with the lack of service. Whilst it's down to them to create stuff themselves, it must be hard playing in this current set up.Usually with Sean Dyche, players follow his 'minimum requirement is maximum effort' mantra but there is very little evidence of that at the moment.I've got time for Sean Dyche but he's losing his way just like our other recent managers did. I believe we have decent players capable of performing.I imagine the overall malaise at the club is taking its toll on the management and players. It's taking its toll on supporters. Whilst only a cup game and in midweek, it attracted a 33k crowd. I would have thought given the significance of the match in terms of possibly being last League Cuo game at Goodison, ther would have beem a higher attendance. Danny O'Neill 14 Posted 18/09/2024 at 05:49:04 I don't think just shy of 34,000 was too bad for a Tuesday night. It was partly a result of Southampton bringing a very small number, which is understandable given the distance, although I don't think it would have been the same the other way around. My brother sent me a picture from his seat in the top balcony. The away section was near empty, with the Upper Bullens totally empty. I'm surprised the club didn't open that up for home supporters. With the prices, an ideal opportunity for those who don't get to go often the chance to attend.I haven't seen Leicester on sale yet, but presume it will sold out quicker than Usain Bolt.I agree with the substitution, it was to get Ndiaye and McNeil further forward.We were wasteful in possession and allowed Southampton to control possession.Penalties are great when they go your way, but a horrible way to go out when they don't.I'll never slate any player for missing a penalty. Young's came off the post. Derek Knox 15 Posted 18/09/2024 at 06:04:22 Southampton are bookies favourites to be one of the sides relegated at the end of the season, yet with a second string (mostly) they out-passed, out-possessed and outplayed us at home. How embarrassing and worrying is that ? I know it's early days and panic buttons should not be pressed, but that was diabolical again from a manager who is clearly out of his depth.His stubborn continuance, to keep playing under-performers and weak links will take it's toll sooner rather than later. Then there's the confidence factor, or lack of confidence altogether. Sorry but Dyche has to be sacked and soon. The tea-lady (Sorry Mavis) would do better than Dyche and be able to get a tune out of a very limited squad. Walter White 16 Posted 18/09/2024 at 06:08:37 So many players out with "illness".Speaks volumes to me that. Paul Rattle 17 Posted 18/09/2024 at 06:21:28 At the end of the day can't really bemoan the attendance, the price had been hiked up too much for me, should have been £20, midweek night in September, football standard atrocious.I don't think anyone can blame fans for discontent, it's not even so much about last night, losing or just that one substitute.It's about 5 wins since the middle of December, basically apart from one purple patch in April, we've been appalling, our win ratio under this manager means the fans are never far away from turning.Last night we started seeing just how unhappy many are with this offing. James Drake 18 Posted 18/09/2024 at 06:44:35 I dont know how we (as fans) respond, do we boo, protest and show our general contempt for the way our great club is being run or do we rally behind the club like we have seen in recent seasons, bringing the noise pre game with flares and vocal support?It just all seems very flat this season, with a lack of any real ownership or leadership in an environment and team, begging for some (sigh). Danny Baily 19 Posted 18/09/2024 at 07:01:38 James 18, just take it easy and see how it plays out. Everton will still be here, even after relegation. Derek Thomas 20 Posted 18/09/2024 at 07:06:08 Walter White @ 16; 'Illness' - they're sick alright - sick of the way they're asked to play?...and the guy that's asking them?I'm starting to see the old managerial 'Not If, But When' momentum building up...like it has, sadly, many times before.We're one Watford type game were we go from 'yep we're pretty shite' to 'absolutely shite.'But, as has been said these are not normal times.Thelwell & Chong; Get a replacement lined up, sack the 3 Stooges, tell they can whistle for their Compo, take a number and get in line behind all the other unsecured creditors Danny Baily 21 Posted 18/09/2024 at 07:26:18 Derek 20, Bournemouth was the Watford type game you're waiting for, just worse. A complete collapse.Everton since the Watford debacle we've been in relegation trouble. It can hardly be described as having been fun since then.It might be that the jig is finally up. Nigel Scowen 22 Posted 18/09/2024 at 07:28:32 Walter @16,I'm feeling pretty sick myself, tbh. Billy Shears 23 Posted 18/09/2024 at 07:39:33 Has there's been a more hated Everton player than Young in recent times?Use him as a Draught Excluder only in training, please, from now on.When will the misery end!? Ian Bennett 24 Posted 18/09/2024 at 07:50:48 I hated the Walter Smith years, and at the end I'd accept a defeat if it meant we saw the back of him.Dyche is the same. He's done probably a better or worse job than the long list before him. The fanbase had accepted that his brand if football was a necessary evil to get the club through to the new stadium, when cash could help a depleted squad.But it can't go on. 5 wins in a year, and the last away win in over 12 months. 4 Premier League defeats and 13 goals conceded. The squad isn't fit, it looks devoid of doing anything off the training ground.Last night is probably the poorest I've seen us play in decades. Southampton are a poor side, and yet they played like world beaters.Young for Beto on 62 minutes was the ultimate demonstration of his coward football. Young, Michael Keane – he just keeps going back to the well of shirtless.Dyche out, and take your shit backroom staff with you. Paul Ferry 25 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:00:56 Justin Doone @1, I never like "I don't give a flying carp about the league cup - Glad we are out of it." And as for possession stats, they're less meaningful than this cup. I dare you Justin to walk into the Winslow and say that… but of course you never would because you're at home on a keyboard. I dare you to say that to Rob Halligan, Danny O'Neill, Neil Copeland, Bill Watson, Dave Williams etc., but that would mean meeting them in the flesh, not on your yellow keyboard. I think that maybe 99/100 ToffeeWebbers would kill to see us win the League Cup. Not one of them gives a shit about your pitiful doggerel. But hey, congrats, you got on at #1 with your carp post lad.While you're at it, take the time to put this into English for us - I never like I don't give a flying carp about the league cup Would I get a ban eds/mods if I end this with 'knobhead'? Dave Cashen 26 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:11:06 Christine and Si,I see the merit in both your points, but I think the crowd reaction was far more significant than the substitution itself. That wasn't just a few grumbles of discontent. I saw it as a huge section of the crowd saying "Enough is enough". They were telling him in no uncertain terms that they were no longer behind him. The cameras homing in on Beto and Doucoure clearly bitching after being hauled off would suggest he is losing the players too — although neither deserved to stay on.We seem to be lurching from one must-win game to another, but we are not winning any of them. Every single game seems to be even more important than the last one. The stress is killing. Phillip Warrington 27 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:14:18 After seeing this on the BBC Football site: "Inevitably we wanted to win the game and we haven't done. After piecing together a team this morning, with three players going down ill overnight, I think we have given as good as we can get." What chance have we got? Danny O'Neill 28 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:20:58 Ian, I also didn't like the Walter Smith period. It was dull and uninspiring. The breaking point was the FA Cup defeat to Middlesborough. A real low point.Paul, I'd love to win the League Cup. Not just so it puts my demons to rest that we've never won it, but it provides a trip to Wembley and European qualification, which can lead to a springboard to better things.FA Cup it is then. Andrew Clare 29 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:24:26 Being a striker at Everton must be a nightmare. Zero quality service, long balls hoofed upfield leading to lost possession, ordered to chase the opposing defenders must be exhausting for 90 minutes.. No wonder DCL wants a move. I feel sorry for Beto. Ok he be limited in some aspects of his play but I am sure he would be scoring goals for a better organised team.Also if the ownership isn't sorted soon we will be too far adrift to remain in this division Anthony Day 30 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:25:13 Dyche is toast -we have seen this reasoning from failing managers before. "I took them off to concentrate on blah blah". What that tells the rest of the football community is that you are running scared and have little to no faith in the majority of your squad.It also means that the league games come with almost unbearable pressure for everyone. If we lose to Leicester then his whole judgement is called into question and people will ask why we passed up an opportunity to win a league cup game (and build some confidence) to falter (again) in the league.Fans are not stupid - they know when it makes no sense. They don't go to the Old Lady just to boo players for the sake of it.Ashley Young is a symptom of lazy and frightened thinking. Play Dixon and Lindstrøm on the right for the rest of the season- build a partnership/understanding - they showed more purposeful attacking intent in 20mins than I have seen in the last 42 games when Harrison + A N Other play together. You could tell the other players were shocked as they sprinted to try and keep up with play.Being a Blue is fucking hard work these days Tony Abrahams 31 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:36:47 Although neither deserved to stay on, are the most significant words you have just written Dave.Beto wasnt playing well but he simply had to stay on the pitch because he just had to, and although I could maybe understand what the manager was trying to do with regards the way he tried to shuffle it around, but once you lose that physical presence up front, you are just killing your team imo.Ive been having to manage my sons under eleven team and they were playing last week and drawing 2-2. The forward had stopped working hard and because you are supposed to try and alter the subs to give the players equal game time, it was time for him to come off. I just couldnt do it because we never had another proper forward to replace him, and two minutes from time the kid bulldozed his way through and scored, to make it 3-2, and a minute later he forced a mistake from a defender and the kids ended up winning 4-2.I thought Lindstrom should have squared it to Beto for an easy finish and he should have kept his composure when clean through, but watching last night its obvious hes not a wide player, and hes another wide player who needs to play inside Nigel Scowen 32 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:45:42 Justin@1What are you talking about lad? I would absolutely love us to win this cup. The fact that we havent in our history irks me. The cup is a way into Europe, something that can actually help change the direction of a club. A good performance and result could have acted as a confidence builder going into Saturday. Do you think 30,000 blues turn up for a laugh, it would have been close to yet another full house if Southampton had bothered. Fred Quick 33 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:46:23 Prospective Everton owner Dan Friedkin has sacked AS Roma manager Daniele de Rossi after a winless start to 2024-25.The Italian club have three draws and a defeat in their opening four Serie A games of the new campaign, and it has cost the 41-year-old his job despite leading them to a sixth-place finish last term.The news could prove to be bad news for Everton manager Sean Dyche as Friedkin is very much in talks to buy the Goodison Park club. Paul Ferry 34 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:47:51 No one in their right Evertonian mind would argue with a single word of that Nigel 32. Perfectly put mate. Paul Ferry 35 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:48:57 I saw that Fred, thanks for sharing, it gives me hope. Tommy Hughes 36 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:50:26 Time is up !Dyche out now he has lost it, not good enough get out same old week in week out the call needs making today Rob Halligan 37 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:51:03 Bizarre substitutions again by Dyche. Out of our nine, two were goalkeepers and three Id never heard of. So we only used three of our subs, yet for me, the most obvious substitution to make with about a minute of time left to play, was Jordan Pickford. He would have saved at least one of their penalties. Ok, it would have been unjust on Joao Virginia, who had a half decent game, but weve never seen him in a penalty shootout and also I think it may have put a bit more pressure on the Southampton players taking their spot kicks. Joe McMahon 38 Posted 18/09/2024 at 08:57:32 Justin@1, just once I would like Everton to win the league Cup while I'm still young enough to enjoy it. That lot accross the park have won it 10 times (just think about that). Nigel Scowen 39 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:10:34 Rob@37100%, pretty damn obvious really.Ive run out of adjectives to describe Dyches plays now tbh.The man has sucked the existence out of me. Brian Harrison 40 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:12:59 I couldnt understand when some fans around me in Upper Bullens, booed when Keanes name was read out, have to say I was disgusted with them. I also think he had a good game. As to the game itself I am sure even Sean Dyches biggest fans are now questioning if he is the right man to stay in charge, I believe we had only 28% possession against a newly promoted side at home. Despite that we still had the best chances, and should have put the game to bed, while they had loads of possession I cant remember Virginia being called on very often to make a save. I understand the recent illness amongst the group made changes inevitable and I thought Dixon did ok a couple of mistimed tackles but has pace to burn which is always an asset for a defender. Lindstrom had a couple of excellent chances which he didnt take and in the first half if he hadnt been so greedy in wanting to score himself if he had rolled the ball sideways it was an empty net for Beto to score. Beto always wants to get into a physical battle and seems to lack basic ball control. I know we were short of players but playing McNeil at full back seemed utter madness, the one thing McNeil hasn't got is pace and to have him up against a pacy winger just didn't make sense. Mangala made his first start for the club, hard to judge on 1 game but he didnt impress, also a first start for Harrison, he did ok but its very hard for a 17 year old to play at this level, unless you are a Rooney et al. Virginia did OK but never got near any of the penalties, but to be fair they were all well taken penalties.Given our position with the owner in discussions to sell the club, its very hard to imagine any potential managers who would want to come in before the new owner is in place. But seeing it looks like December is the earliest a new owner would be in place, I don't think we can wait that long. Paul Ferry 41 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:21:53 Rob, 37, top point. I never thought of it Rob at the time. Could we have brought on JP and Begovic with a minute to go for say McNeil (who didn't take a pen?) and Jake and we could have crammed all three in goal? James Marshall 42 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:23:50 People talking about the possession issue against Southampton - they played like that all season last year in the Championship and keep the ball very well. They're second in possession percentage stats this season in the Premier League as well - only Man City have more possession than they do so that stat is to be expected.They play like that every week, no matter who they're playing they keep the ball very very well so it's actually not a stat to beat Dyche or our players with.We lost for many reasons, but that isn't one of them. They've lost all 4 of their PL games with way more possession than every team they've played so it's not really relevant. Sam Hoare 43 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:24:45 Dyche won't get fired over a league cup result with a patched up side but he will if that level of performance and result continue for much longer.We have a 'winnable' set of fixtures coming up though currently this team look like they have the capacity to lose to any team from any position. Last season the results were poor but some of the underlying stats (that decision makers will definitely look at) were encouraging. This season there is zero encouragement to be had at all (apart from perhaps the 87 minutes against Bournemouth).If Dyche does not turn the corner sharpish I can see him departing in October James Marshall 44 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:26:54 Paul@41McNeil did take a penalty. I agree with Rob though, because Virginia was shit in the shootout. He also looked tiny Larry O'Hara 45 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:30:50 I have been supportive of Dyche but to take an attacker (however poor) off after 60 mins when drawing 1-1 at home in a Cup game And replace him with Young of all people. Truly diabolical. Danny O'Neill 46 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:31:38 Rob, I had that thought last night. Why not bring Pickford on for the penalties?Brian, I've criticised Keane in the past and he does worry me. But in fairness, against Villa, aside from his lack of height for their first goal (harsh maybe given Watkins's run), he didn't have that bad a game.And although it's difficult to tell on TV, he was arguably one of our better players last night.Just it's an isolated existence being an Everton forward right now, the defenders are put under a lot of pressure. Andy Crooks 47 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:37:44 I think Dyche is safe for a while yet. Everything changes when the "Who will replace him?" question is answered with: "Anyone!"He is fast running out of redeeming features. No matter what the tactical reason is, bringing Young on is two fingers up to the supporters. The action of a man at the end of his tether. Justin Doone 48 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:39:44 Okay, I could have explained it better but, being annoyed at losing, I kept it short.The FA Cup is a real cup, it's prestigious, shown around the world, and gets teams noticed. Most people can generally list the winners over the past 20 years etc – not unlike the Premier League. The League Cup, I can't recall who won it last season, never mind the season before. But that's probably just me and my opinion and poor memory of it.I started with "I don't like losing games". I wish Everton won every game until the end of time, including the League Cup. But, in all honesty, it's never going to happen.If they scrap the League Cup, I would not miss it. If we won it, I'd celebrate. John Raftery 49 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:43:43 Last night's performance confirmed why Dyche was loath to select some of the new signings in the first couple of weeks of the season. None made a pressing case for inclusion on Saturday. As for the two academy products, Harrison Armstrong showed energy and some neat touches. At 17, he looks like a player who could progress in the right setting. Roman Dixon is nowhere near ready for first-team football, especially in a struggling team. He has pace but his tackling is a liability. I thought the booing of Michael Keane before kick-off was utterly pathetic. Likewise the substitution of Ashley Young for Beto. That change actually helped us control more of the play with Ndiaye and McNeil the players most likely to create a second goal. George Cumiskey 50 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:48:11 Will people stop it with this "patched-up side" nonsense.Didn't Southampton make 10 changes from Saturday's team – or did I mishear the commentator? Mark Murphy 51 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:53:49 I recently got (rightly) flamed on here for saying I wasn't bothered about winning the "Mickey Mouse Cup", so up to a point I understand Justin's throw away "Carp Cup" (sp?) comment...But I wrote that when in a rosy haze of alcohol and nostalgic old days Evertonian, when the "best" bit in Nil Satis Nisi Optimum meant that the Milk / Coca-Cola / League / etc Cup was beneath us.Of course I want us to win anything to get us back on the board – I was even dead chuffed we won that American pre-season tourny...But, another 'but', the devastating (not too harsh a word) aspect of last night's defeat was the manner of it. We looked absolutely and utterly devoid of any ideas and bore no resemblance whatsoever to a football team, whether Premier League or Sunday Vets League. No excuses at the lack of personnel – Southampton didn't play their first team either and they still played us off the park. As I've said before, Dyche did a "masterclass" video after he somehow beat Liverpool on an off day and made it all about him. Has he made any "masterclass" videos since? I'd dearly love to see his "masterclass" videos of the Bournemouth, Brighton, Chelsea away, last night etc etc. I bet Nuno hasn't released a "masterclass" video of how he (not the team, note) beat the shite at Anfield!There isn't a "masterclass". There's a "plan" (in the loosest sense of the word) A-minus, and its shit and it's not working.One last point. On the radio this morning, the sports pundits are still all talking about how Dyche makes teams hard to beat. Personally I think Branthwaite makes Everton hard(er) to beat but that's not my point. When are the pundits going to point out that Dyche makes Everton unlikely to win?UTFExasperatingT. James Marshall 52 Posted 18/09/2024 at 09:57:22 John @49,I got the sense from watching the game on TV that the booing when Young came on was directed at Dyche? It's hardly Young's fault if he's being picked or sent on in games. He might be a liability but Everton gave him a contract and the manager keeps picking him, so supporters booing the player are aiming their ire at the wrong man, in my view. Nigel Scowen 53 Posted 18/09/2024 at 10:02:08 James, I think the booing was definitely aimed at the decision rather than the player. Mark Murphy 54 Posted 18/09/2024 at 10:06:49 James @42, I too saw that stat and I am taking it into consideration but it still doesn't excuse the tactics that Dyche used, at home, in a "free-hit" (we won't get relegated on the strength of this defeat) game.If we'd lost that in normal time after giving it a good go, I personally would feel much more confident for the next few games and for when we get Branthwaite back.But that was abysmal, cowardly shite. Andrew Ellams 55 Posted 18/09/2024 at 10:10:17 I suspect the booing was probably aimed at the decision and the player. I wonder how much it contributed to him missing the penalty? Michael Lynch 56 Posted 18/09/2024 at 10:13:49 Dyche is a problem, but not as big a problem as the piss-poor squad we've been left with after years of financial mismanagement at the club. On top of that, we have too many injuries and too much illness in the club right now to be anything other than dreadful.Like all of us, I hope we stay up but, like most of us, I think we need to start planning for the Championship and a total rebuild in the new stadium. Hopefully, and it is only hope that sustains us, we will have a new owner who knows what he's doing and can put together a 3-year plan to get us back to the heights to which we all aspire, playing decent football and challenging for Europe.It's going to be a long, miserable season, but I'm just going to try to enjoy my last games at Goodison as best as I can. Ray Jacques 57 Posted 18/09/2024 at 10:19:28 Whoever gave Ashley Young a further one year contract is the problem with Everton.I watch quite a few of the reality sports documentaries such as Sunderland Till I Die and Mission to Burnley. The chaos and lack of leadership, no visible owner etc etc off the pitch will ultimately manifest itself on the pitch. Dont know why but it always does.Everton FC is a basket case, until the ownership is resolved it will continue to fail and disappoint/frustrate.Any other club and the manager would be dismissed, but who is there to make that decision and organise severence? Who will choose and sign off on a new manager and agree monies? Who would take a job when there is no owner as the new guy is likely to bring his own choice in?I only see Moyes on a short term with bonus to keep them up similar to Allardyce if someone, somewhere, whoever, whenever sacks Dyche.It's a farce, they don't deserve the support. Derek Knox 58 Posted 18/09/2024 at 10:43:01 While I agree about who is going to sack Dyche (?) let alone appoint a new manager etc, we can't hang about too long. Four games in, we have zero points, an already embarrassing negative GD. Even if you aspire to mid-table position, best we could hope for, we are 7 or 8 points adrift of them. Easy to say 3 wins would put us back in there, but I can't foresee any wins, and the teams who are ahead of us, all of them btw, are not going to backpaddle to allow us to catch up, so the gap will become a chasm! Fred Quick 59 Posted 18/09/2024 at 10:47:55 It's difficult to prove whether there is or is not a bout of illness within the first-team squad, but it was mighty convenient that it manifested itself hours before a cup match in which the manager would have been loathe to risk his better performers given the general ability of the overall squad. As for Ashley Young, the manager is obviously going to try and justify the 1-year extension by selecting the player as often as possible. Coleman too would be in the starting line-up if he was fit and available. It was lazy management by Thelwell and Dyche to give those two players another year, I can't believe that there are no younger players good enough in the lower leagues or beyond, who might have been bought to the club on similar wages. We don't need star players as full-backs, we just need reliable, capable players who can defend. After all, we're not trying to make Europe, we're aiming for 17th place. Mike Doyle 60 Posted 18/09/2024 at 10:49:37 I know our recent history of penalty shoot-outs isn't great, but according to the Red Echo, since 4 November 1970 – when we beat Borussia Monchengladbach in the first ever penalty shoot-out in European football – we've only won one of nine at Goodison Park since, against Norwich City in 2015 apparently. I'm glad I was at Monchengladbach game. Noleen Daya 62 Posted 18/09/2024 at 11:13:03 I'm here but don't know what to say. What, what, what can I say?! Everything is wrong. I teach English but I'm truly gobsmacked. As my words fade, my feelings of dread for our beloved club increase. Nigel Scowen 63 Posted 18/09/2024 at 11:23:50 James @63,A man of action. John Raftery 64 Posted 18/09/2024 at 12:24:02 For those who argue it was lazy management to retain Young and Coleman, the tricky question is what was the alternative? There are no academy products ready to play at Premier League level. There is no money to sign better players to join us from other clubs.We were linked with at least three full-backs in the summer; Killian Sardella at Anderlecht, Ángelo Preciado at Sparta Prague and of course Kieran Trippier. Such is our financial plight we were unable to tempt their clubs to sell them – even if the players themselves could be persuaded to move to a struggling club. Fred Quick 65 Posted 18/09/2024 at 12:34:22 Seamus signed his new contract 14 June 2024; Ashley signed his on 25 June 2024. Both very early in the window and probably would have put off any would-be signing if we could have purchased anybody. I do call it lazy management. Dyche prefers old war-horses to up and coming youngsters; I hope he's proven correct in the final analysis, but I have my doubts. Colin Bell 66 Posted 18/09/2024 at 12:36:12 For 60+ years I have watched Everton, the majority as a season ticket holder. Last night was, singularly, the worst game of football I have seen at Goodison Park, even during those dark moments of some very poor managers. What was wrong? Injuries, illness, a complete lack of credible tactics, mismanagement, the absence of any kind of structure or learning from Finch Farm. Do they actually get together?We are stuck with it now. Our league position will mean that players will be playing with fear, that transmits to the fans who simply shrug their shoulders at the inevitability of the outcomes. Living a 1-hour drive away just prolongs the agony, especially when Highways decide to complete roadworks, simply adding to the journey. I sit next to a guy who drives to the game from Lincoln… my God, what a life he must lead. My son, who couldn't make it last night, describes his week as ‘fucked' now. I know what he means.The major problem has now become that journeys into Goodison, more often than not by train, are tortuous. An early start around 9:30 am for a 3:00 pm kick-off are not filled, as they used to be, with optimism and excitement. I no longer smile. Return journeys are, more often than not, worse. A wasted day.Every team can lose football matches, it is what makes it the beautiful game, but this is just desperate. I no longer look forward to it, this club has broken me with its ineptitude. In the twilight of my life, having survived a quadruple by-pass 3 years ago, I had hoped for better during my retirement but Everton Football Club have this uncanny knack of confounding all logic. Benitez ridding us of Rodriguez and Digne, the managers who bought Rod Belfitt, Bernie Wright… the list goes on, those who sold Ball, Arteta etc. Dyche with his complete lack of game management, Mike Walker; do you remember him?? Beating West Ham with a Gary Ablett goal to secure our first win of the 94-95 season. Consider this, the most successful manager over the last 10 years, Martinez's European charge excepted, is Sam Allardyce!I've had good times: on a coach being waved off to Rotterdam by Alex Parker from Runcorn Shopping City; crying my eyes out driving on the M62 as the final whistle blew against Wimbledon; watching us play Liverpool off the park last April; Bayern Munich… wow!!! Battering Man Utd 5-0 in 1984-85 season – just for the style of football we played. I could go on…Right now, I've had enough. Reading ToffeeWeb should be part of the players' contract. I wouldn't blame anyone choosing to skip my post but I needed to get this off my chest.See you Saturday! COYB. John Raftery 67 Posted 18/09/2024 at 12:44:27 In regard to earlier comments about the substitution, the booing was aimed principally at the manager but was compounded by the fact that it was Ashley Young being brought on rather than for example, an academy player. For me, the change made sense. Dyche has been criticised for not having a Plan B. Last night, he had one. Beto was cutting an increasingly forlorn figure up front, getting no joy holding the ball up and making it difficult for the team to move up the field as a unit. Our two players who looked most likely to create something in open play were McNeil and Ndiaye. Moving the two of them into central areas was our best option and helped the team obtain more control further up the pitch. In any event, the booing is counterproductive, undermines our players, and boosts the opposition. In difficult times, our team needs the crowd on its side. We need to stick with the team and (for the time being) the manager. Mike Doyle 68 Posted 18/09/2024 at 12:53:00 Mark #51. I believe you are correct to say that the presence of Branthwaite makes us harder to beat – but we still lost plenty of games last season with him in the side, so he won't solve the problem single-handedly – and he's had no pre-season.Tarkowski has come in for a bit of criticism of late, but I suspect he isn't fully fit either. Jonathan Tasker 69 Posted 18/09/2024 at 13:16:50 Odd to have two posters with the same names as former Man City players… Jimmy Hogan 70 Posted 18/09/2024 at 13:21:07 Do you know what we need? A coach. One who will teach our players that the ball is their friend. Who will teach them that when one presses, they all press, Who will teach them to pass and move and most importantly, keep the ball on the ground as much as possible. That coach is not Dyche. At the moment, we are a 21st Century team playing Victorian football. Christy Ring 71 Posted 18/09/2024 at 13:25:32 Let's not kid ourselves… Southampton had mostly a 2nd team out last night, we had our new signings plus Dixon, who should be fullback on Saturday, and Armstrong, and they played us off the park. Another 29% possession at home and we had no game plan whatsoever. Something is drastically wrong and Dyche won't change formation. We've lost 5 games in a row, and he still plays 4-4-1-1 with 2 in midfield, it's killing us. Tony Abrahams 72 Posted 18/09/2024 at 13:39:54 I normally agree with you John @57, but I thought the substitution never really worked because it conceded even more of the pitch to the Southampton central defenders.I understood what Dyche was trying to do, but I would have looked to get Lindstrom inside and closer to the play. I still believe that, for Everton to improve, we have got to get our decent footballers a lot closer to each other and also the centre-forward. Craig Walker 73 Posted 18/09/2024 at 13:45:28 I predicted 1-1 and we would go out on penalties on TW yesterday afternoon. I couldn't understand how little fight we had in us at 1-1 with penalties looming. Does Dyche not know our record in penalty shootouts? I agree with other posters that Michael Keane was okay last night and the booing was out of order but the problem with him is that he makes the other players and, crucially, the crowd jittery and that permeates through the team. Lindstrom looks another player who gets into good positions but is so wasteful. He never gets his head up. Jack Harrison is another. Gets into a good position and then just flashes it across goal rather than picking someone out. Iwobi used to be the same. I've lost count of how many wingers we've had like that down the years.What does McNeil's two-handed signal mean on corners? Is it code for "I'm going to put it too close to the keeper again"? Lindstrom took a corner in the first half that rolled to the feet of the defender on the near post. That's criminal. You wouldn't see that in a schoolboys' match. The other issue I have is Goodison Park. It is becoming a massive negative for our team. Ever since the Covid season under Ancelotti, our home form has been abysmal. In recent seasons we've picked up around spring time but we can't rely on that each season. I don't know what it is but the players just shrink and can't handle it. A few mistakes makes the crowd jittery and the away team pick up on this. You can see the jitters spreading throughout the team. That was evident as soon as Bournemouth got one back. We never have a player that can grab hold of the team and raise our levels and reverse the inevitable. I'll miss Goodison enormously but I think away teams can smell blood when playing us at home. Historically, our away form isn't good and so, stating the bleeding obvious, if we can't make Goodison a fortress then we're gonna be in the mix for relegation.I've been in the camp that Dyche has done a good job keeping us up despite the issues but I'm changing my opinions. I thought we'd at least be hard to beat but we're a pushover at the moment and conceding from set pieces and not stopping crosses. You can get away with being hard to beat if you get results but, if you go on a losing run and the style of play is turgid, then people are going to start asking questions.Thing is, who would we get to improve things? I reckon Moyes would come back but for me, he's cut from the same cloth as Dyche. Ray Jacques 74 Posted 18/09/2024 at 13:57:42 I was quite optimistic before the season started as we only sold Onana and signed 4 or 5 players. I thought we would do okay… That didn't last long.I've always defended Dyche but sadly I think his time is up. I think with the right system, coaching and tactics we now have players who could compete in the Premier League. The issue is finding and implementing the system to suit our players. I can't believe Beto is as bad as he looks playing for us, it was the same with Maupay. We just seem to ruin players and destroy their confidence.I do know that 29% possession at home isn't the answer. Steve Byles 75 Posted 18/09/2024 at 14:13:43 We have to accept this season will be crap. A patched-up side of Championship standard, up to our eyes in debt and everyone wants us out of the Premier League because we spoil the brand. We have the most uninspired manager incapable of showing any creative thinking, who blames his players when things go wrong. All we can hope for is survival, then hope our fortunes change with the new ownership and new stadium. If our exit from the League Cup helps our survival in the Premier League, so be it. Michael Lynch 76 Posted 18/09/2024 at 14:15:20 On the kids who played, I thought Dixon looked great bombing forward but very raw in his defensive duties. Harrison Armstrong didn't seem to impose himself on the game as much as I hoped he would, but that might have been because the opposition was like a Poundshop Man City, passing, passing and passing some more, so our midfield spent most of the time running around in a generally fruitless attempt at closing down their players.On the signings, O'Brien did okay I thought, though again looked raw. Mangala did the Gana Gueye job very well and will probably find himself first choice more often than not. Ndiaye has bags of talent and is very exciting but, again, spent so much energy running around trying to close down. He's gonna be a fan favourite for sure. Lindstrom – least said the better. He's not suited for the Premier League. I can't see him getting much game time except as a sub maybe. Derek Knox 77 Posted 18/09/2024 at 14:26:21 Colin @ 66, your post was in no way deserves anyone ' skipping it ' I assume you are of a similar age to myself, and have supported Everton through thick and thin since the early 60's. Alex Parker who used to have the ' Swinging Sporran ' in the Shopping City Runcorn, I met him many times as a young husband doing the wife a favour and getting the shopping in. She always thought it was because I was crap at shopping that it took me so long, and often wondered why my breath smelt a mixture of beer and polo mints !You are NOT alone my friend, and I concur that this IS Everton at it's lowest ebb, and possibly the worst it has been mismanaged. Initially I backed Dyche because he had inherited a crock of shit, courtesy of the Maggot and Moshiri, but I'm afraid it has gone past that now.He would garner some modicum of respect, IF he actually admitted that he had ' cocked up, with team selections and substitutes ' but NO he is that arrogant and stubborn he actually believes he is doing as best a job as he can with what is available.I only lived in Runcorn for about 18 months, before moving to Penketh, near Warrington as I worked at Fiddler's Ferry Power Station. Would love to have a pre-match pint with you mate, although I don't go to every home game any longer, but used to be a S T holder in Upper Bullens.When I do go, I always go to the Harlech on County Road (opposite KFC) as a decent venue close to the ground and a good bunch of Blues meet up there. Take care mate, you are not alone, and I/we hope something happens, like yesterday, as far as new ownership and proper management is in place !I also agree that players and managers alike should read the fan sites, to gauge the feeling of the fans, and not just going through the motions with little or no emotional attachment to the shirt or those paying to watch them ' entertain ? '. Ajay Gopal 78 Posted 18/09/2024 at 14:46:43 Perspective, people! We were missing the following players yesterday:Calvert-LewinBrojaChermitiGarnerGanaMykolenkoColemanPatterson TarkowskiBranthwaiteAnd for a squad that has been stripped of our best players year-on-year, the non-availability of these players meant that there was very little Dyche could have done differently.I too wish for a proper ‘footballing manager (we had 2 of them in the past, remember ? Martinez and Silva), but in the absense of leadership at the top, he would become unstuck just as the 7-8 we have had recently. For the present, we just have to hope that Dyche steers us through this sticky patch and he is aided by some luck with players returning from sickness/injury.For those who think Dyche has absolutely no footballing nous, I would urge them to replay the 30-45 seconds before the Calvert-Lewin 1-on-1 chance that went abegging last Saturday. There was a sequence of about 8-10 short, crisp passes played in midfield that led to the final one to DCL. If he had scored that, it might have been a contender for our goal of the season. Andrew Merrick 79 Posted 18/09/2024 at 15:03:57 Jimmy ~70exactly right, play as a team, act together and move for each other, the game plan has to include players showing for and wanting the ball, passing needs to measured and crisp, play the ball into the space not at the player, tactics can be drilled in, they can be coached and they will build confidence as a team gels.OK there is a minimum talent requirement for this, but the missing ingredients are commonly confidence and a good gameplan, certainly missing with Dycheball Brian Harrison 80 Posted 18/09/2024 at 15:17:04 I think that Moshiri and the new potential owners can see that their investment is sliding into the Championship, and heaven forbid that happens its hard to see how this club becomes viable to any investor. The manager had a spell last season were he went 15 games without a win, now he can use injury and illness as excuses but 15 games without a win must mean the manager is getting something wrong. While the fans have been ultra patient with Dyche I got the feeling last night that the crowd are starting to turn against him. Nothing in his time has he improved the style of play its very negative and the attackers he picks are largely isolated from the rest of the team, he has his 2 in central midfield who are asked to cover acres of ground playing in most cases against a 3 in midfield, no wonder they start to tire around the 80 minute mark. When we do attack there is usually only 1 or 2 men in the opponents box, so very few options to hit. Even Brentford last week had 5 players regularly in Citys box when the attacked.The football under Dyche has been awful since he arrived, and yet he still persists with the same system that doesn't make watching Everton enjoyable. I have no idea if Moshiri will pull the plug or whether he will hope that he can sell the club before we could come adrift from the 4th from bottom club, and leave that problem to the new owners. Bill Gall 81 Posted 18/09/2024 at 15:21:36 This display last night proved the major flaw in Everton F.C and that is S.Dyche. Southampton a team who were tipped for relegation before the season started, played at least 10 different players from their original starting 11 on the weekend and yet still played as a team through most of the game, with their passing and movement off the ball and as a unit showed they had been trained in their managers plan, if called up to the starting 11.To me that showed that like other teams the normal non starters are ready to fit into the Senior side without altering the managers tactics to much.Everton on the other hand, regardless of the circumstances, brought in a number of players not considered senior team starters and as a team played like they had only met each other an hour before the game. I do not like to go on statistics but if it is true that we only had 25% of possession at home against Southampton, that demonstrates to me as inferior coaching that does not allow young or new players to become a positive asset to the club.I don't believe in firing a manager after 1 game but apart from the euphoria against the other lot from across the park, his record to say the least, is no better than previous managers who have been fired for less.Keeping S.Dyche seems that we are only going to get exited over the team at critical times of the season instead of being in a mid table position rebuilding. I don't want to see any old previous managers at Everton, where we are just going to get another survivalist. At the same time there must be some younger fairly successful coaches, and that is what they are a tactical coach, but as manager ensures that the clubs younger players are coached to the same style and tactics of the senior team if called upon.I understand the problems during the takeover over bringing in a new manager but surely we must have someone with some backbone at the club that understands what is going on and with unofficial talks with prospective new owners, brings in a new manager, as I cant see any new owner wanting to see Everton relegated, and it appears the morale of the players under the management of S.Dyche may see this happen.You cant brush rubbish under the carpet and hope it is gone. Jay Harris 82 Posted 18/09/2024 at 15:28:39 Ajay,That is what we have come down to now. 30-45 seconds of a 90+minutes game.The statistic that burns a hole in my heart is over 70% possession allowed nay encouraged to the opposition especially at home against sides we should be dominating.I am sick of making excuses for Sean Dyche for his team selections, his tactics and his arrogant obstinate manner. He reminds me so much of Martinez in that he dismisses supporters' views and maintains that he is the only one who knows how to run a football club and it is all the players or supporters fault when it doesn't work.I used to call Burnley an Alehouse team when he was there but did see some green shoots of hope last season but I have now lost all faith in him. He is the weakest link!! Soren Moyer 83 Posted 18/09/2024 at 15:35:50 Ajay, 78,Southampton played 11 players that did not feature in their last league game!!! Nigel Scowen 84 Posted 18/09/2024 at 15:44:55 Ajay @78, Come on mate, how many times are we going to make excuses.That was one of the biggest piles of shite I have ever witnessed against a fellow relegation team that was almost unrecognisable from their first choice Premier League line-up.Whatever you think of Dyche, surely you must acknowledge now that his time is well and truly up. The only reason he is still here is that Moshiri is hoping he can sell the club first and avoid paying any compensation. The man is a complete wreck. Ray Roche 85 Posted 18/09/2024 at 15:59:28 There's a lot of justifiable anger following last night's debacle and plenty calling for Dyche's head to roll. Does anyone have a suitable replacement for Dyche in mind? And I mean someone who is available and who can take this basket case of a club forward.Please, don't say Moyes. Ajay Gopal 86 Posted 18/09/2024 at 16:14:32 Posts 82,83,84, you all make fair points, but I just don't think it is down to only manager tactics. I doubt that any other manager would come in and do significantly better, but I get that there is always that hope with someone new at the helm.On a related note, Roma (owned by Friedkin) have just sacked their manager De Rossi after he failed to win any of their opening 4 games (3 draws and a loss).If Dyche were to get sacked, one of the managers who I would like to see seriously considered would be the Aberdeen manager - Jimmy Thelin. He is beginning to turn heads in the footballing world, Pressing, passing & elite coaching — Thelin's Aberdeen revolution Mark Taylor 87 Posted 18/09/2024 at 16:26:59 Derek @15's first para summed it up for me, except the bit about not wanting to press the panic button yet. Only the owner knows where that is, and he's left the building.As we wallow in seemingly never ending anguish, there is one small positive to take. It must be dawning on not just Moshiri but also our various creditors that relegation is beyond just a risk, it is becoming dangerously close to being a probability and that would mean everyone's idea of the value of their debt and shares would require an urgent re-appraisal, steeply downwards.At this point, only a new owner can take the necessary steps to mitigate this risk so maybe, just maybe, there will be a bit more pressure to break the impasse we have drifted towards.The one problem here is that the current bidder has his own constraint, needing a buyer for his Palace shares. Since other bids have collapsed without this complication, that certainly isn't helpful, but it might just raise interest from previous bidders. Maybe there is more motivation among all parties to consider the need for the type of haircut Friedkin wanted to apply. The alternative might be baldness... Nigel Scowen 88 Posted 18/09/2024 at 16:27:04 Ray @85,I would say Moyes but only until the end of the season (with a bumper bonus for keeping us in the division as an added incentive) then I would go for someone like Carlos Corberan longer term to take us into BMD.Dyche is now 5 wins out of 27 in 2024 which I believe is a worse win record than any club David Moyes has ever managed including relegated Sunderland.Moyes would get a short-term tune out of this lot, he did twice in two seperate stints at West Ham. Michael Kenrick 89 Posted 18/09/2024 at 16:31:06 "To take an attacker (however poor) off after 60 minutes when drawing 1-1 at home in a Cup game and replace him with Young of all people."I hate it when posters disclaim football knowledge of others... but this comes perilously close. I shouldn't need to point out that McNeil started the game in one of Young's normal positions. And when Young came on, McNeil vacated that position and moved up front, where Beto had been. So – and it seems this is the tricky bit for us football fans to comprehend – Young replaced McNeil, and McNeil replaced Beto.But the overwhelming compunction to boo Dyche for "bringing on Young in place of Beto" seems destined to defy any vestige of football logic in the move. Evertonians — the best fans in the world? Nick Page 90 Posted 18/09/2024 at 16:37:54 Time to go, Sean. Start packing your bags. Nigel Scowen 91 Posted 18/09/2024 at 16:48:07 Craig @73I agree to a certain extent on the Goodison factor, the players do seem very nervous playing at home and the opposition can smell blood.Moyes is cut from the same cloth but much better. Dale Self 92 Posted 18/09/2024 at 16:52:04 Hey Nick, from the good old days...Fact: Dyche has credit to stay in the Everton hotel until it is sold. David Connor 93 Posted 18/09/2024 at 16:59:39 The decision-making of Dyche of late makes you think he actually wants to be sacked and get him and his shit staff a nice pay off. Either that or the guy has totally lost the fucking plot.Granted we haven't got the best squad in the Premier League but you would hope and think that a better coach would be able to get this bunch to actually play better than they are at this moment in time.I hope and pray that the team starts to pick up points very soon or else we are up Shit Creek. Unfortunately, Mr Dyche looks lost as to what to do. What an absolute mess we have become under the odd couple of Moshiri and the late Kenwright. You couldn't make the fucker up. Oh, I forgot, it's Everton we are talking about. Get your shit together, lads, for god's sake. Si Cooper 94 Posted 18/09/2024 at 17:02:43 Tony (72), So we can agree it didn't work but a few of us believe we can see what the manager hoped to achieve with that substitution (and it wasn't just shutting up shop and holding on for penalties)? Danny O'Neill 95 Posted 18/09/2024 at 17:18:25 That's what happened, Michael, and McNeil was joined / supported by Ndiaye. It also allowed Lindstrom to get forward and he almost wrapped it up for us. Wasn't to be.Ajay makes a valid point, whether it was the manager's choice, illness or injury, if you look at that list, it would have made a difference.In terms of worst team, and I can only go off my lifetime, despite the scrape we're in now, and those we've been in the past few seasons, nothing surpasses the '94 and '98 teams that missed relegation by the narrowest of margins.Onto Leicester. A few results and it will feel better by Christmas and then the FA Cup to look forward to.Meanwhile, the club needs to resolve the ownership issue. That is going to dictate the direction we move in and any managerial situation. Right now, we go with what we've got. The important thing is to get points on the board.The ownership issue for now is a separate issue. We all want it resolving sooner rather than later so the club can be rid of the remnants of this regime and move forward. Tony Abrahams 96 Posted 18/09/2024 at 17:36:53 I don't think he shut up shop, Si, but the flow of the game never altered and Everton still looked like the away team, without any physical pressure up front.It's gone, it was dreadful to watch, but we still had the much better chances and therefore should have won the game, even though we didn't deserve to.I've been wracking my brain since before the season started, trying to think of our best formation, and Branthwaite has been a massive loss.I just think it's imperative that we start getting our better players closer to both the centre-forward and also closer to the other better players, and we have got to find a system that hopefully allows this to start happening very quickly. Derek Knox 97 Posted 18/09/2024 at 17:42:02 Danny @ 95, while I agree those teams back in 94 and 98 were sort of on a par, but with this difference, they had more fight in them and determination not to be typecast as contributing towards the 'then' unthinkable. I have always maintained I can reluctantly accept defeat if the players have given their all, we have been beaten by a better side on the day, or sadly been the victims of wrong decisions or disallowed goals, later proven to be legitimate.Since the start of this season and pre-season too, there has been little evidence of pride in the shirt, the will to win, and determination or application to the final whistle! John Graham 98 Posted 18/09/2024 at 17:44:31 We don't have the best of players as we all know, but sometimes it's the tactics of the team which either gets the best or the worst out of the players. It was good to see that Dyche actually tried to move things around to try to get the team working better together but, in general, we still played with a defensive set-up and tried to catch Southampton on the break.As with most English managers, his first priority is always going to be defence, which at the moment is not working because teams know they have free reign to attack us even at home. The only way to get out of this nightmare is to set up as an attacking formation to start with and put some pressure on the opposition defence. Then get Dixon, O'Brien and Branthwaite in the team so we have some speed at the back and we can then press higher up.I can't see it happening with Dyche so hopefully a takeover is not far off followed by a new foreign manager. Billy Shears 99 Posted 18/09/2024 at 17:52:47 Can the club shop start selling a dartboard with Young's face on it please... Bound to be sold out faster than Oasis tickets! Tony Heron 100 Posted 18/09/2024 at 18:51:34 I can't believe people are calling for Moyes. He was past his sell-by date when he left. I don't think his type of football would fit into the modern game. Granted he did okay at West Ham, but look at what he did before then and after he left Goodison Park. Julian Exshaw 101 Posted 18/09/2024 at 18:53:23 I think what irked the fans last night wasn't the fact that Young came on but rather the fact that Beto was withdrawn. Whatever the thinking behind Dyche's substitution was, it appeared admittedly at first, that he was replacing an attacker with a defender and it was a purely spontaneous reaction by frustrated fans. None of us agrees with booing our players under any circumstance but the miserable performance on the pitch was exasperating for even the most patient of fans, hence the boos. Jay Harris 102 Posted 18/09/2024 at 19:15:05 Julian, you are absolutely correct the fans frustration was due to the fact that, just like the Bournemouth game when our forwards were keeping their defenders occupied, that substitution enabled them to press higher up the pitch and all we were left with was forlorn breakaways with insufficient numbers to make it count. Derek Knox 103 Posted 18/09/2024 at 19:22:37 Jay & Julian, if we and thousands of others can see it, why can't the manager? You would have logically thought that Bournemouth would have been imprinted in the memory as a never to be repeated substitution, or similar with different personnel, but No! It almost beggars belief. Si Cooper 104 Posted 18/09/2024 at 19:26:58 Tony, James Marshall at 42 explained very well why the game was always likely to have ‘flipped' possession stats. In addition, it is possible for a moderate squad to have two full teams of players capable of mixing and matching to deliver the same basic performance.Our squad is less balanced – some new players are perhaps developing the right way – with key players unavailable. We gifted them a goal and yet still should have won last night (if the players had been able to link their play and support the breaks better).We were all embarrassed by the Bournemouth game but I thought the manager (despite his resistant words) has tried to do things a bit differently since then. Last night, I wanted Ndiaye to get more involved and the substitutions allowed that to happen. I thought Ndiaye being more on the ball in the middle would give us more overall in the last quarter than the Beto - Doucoure system.Yes, it still didn't all quite gel but we supporters need to get rid of the too simple Pavlov dog like reactions that simply won't help the team in any way. Dave Abrahams 105 Posted 18/09/2024 at 19:30:42 For anyone who was at the game last night or watched it on TV, the Liverpool Echo reporter(?) made Doucouré Everton's best player.Loads are saying Dyche isn't very good at doing his job; I can't disagree at the moment but this dickhead of a newsman is useless or a Rednose taking the piss.I think the crowd were booing Dyche, not Young, when he came on. Whoever they were booing, I think Young had a good game. Tony Abrahams 106 Posted 18/09/2024 at 19:37:54 I thought it was Beto who fought back and flicked the ball through to Lindstrom, when he should have scored in the second half, Danny. Paul Ferry 107 Posted 18/09/2024 at 19:47:23 Michael Kenrick 89 - "So – and it seems this is the tricky bit for us football fans to comprehend – Young replaced McNeil, and McNeil replaced Beto. Evertonians — the best fans in the world?"Nice bit of condescension there MK (!), but it's completely misplaced on this occasion. Perhaps some of the crowd were booing Young? I don't know. But what is clear is that the booing was directed for the most part at Dyche and taking off Beto.Even Dyche, for once, said something sensible in his post-match random drivel to admit this:"My gut feeling probably Beto being withdrawn only the fans will know really".Quality posts Justin Doone (48) and Colin Bell (66). Rob Halligan 108 Posted 18/09/2024 at 19:50:12 Michael # 89………you once banned me for saying something similar, but seeing as youre an editor of this site, I guess you cant really ban yourself!! Danny O'Neill 109 Posted 18/09/2024 at 20:01:42 Dave, I thought Young did okay last night, as he did against Villa.Tony, he may not have the finesse, but Beto was a handful for the Southampton defence when we did get forward. But to your previous, we don't get close enough to our forward players enough. Ray Roche 110 Posted 18/09/2024 at 20:07:03 Nigel @88,Maybe Moyes would be a short-term answer, but I can't bring myself to consider him back at Goodison, and because Boys Pen Bill is no longer an influence, I don't think it will happen.It's all down to the new owners and I can't see whoever it is wanting to roll things back to Moyes. Brian Harrison 112 Posted 18/09/2024 at 20:07:07 Michael @89,Can I just say that, in 70 years of going to Goodison, I have never booed an Everton player or left a game before the final whistle. But I think for an editor of an Everton fan site to criticize our fans who have turned out in their thousands home and away, for booing a substitution which was because of the fact that he was taking off an attacker and replacing him with a defender rather than another forward was what the fans were booing for. Yes, the move was to allow McNeil to play up alongside Ndaiye, but you have to ask why he didn't start Young at left-back and play McNeil in the No 10 role. Also, seeing as Dyche's main tactic is to hoof the ball 40 yards to our target man who was now replaced with a 5ft 8ins forward, he was never going to win an aerial battle and had probably never played in that position in his life before.I also think the match-going fans have had enough of Dyche and his negative tactics, and have now lost complete faith in him, and in my opinion, rightly so. Yes, criticize fans for booing a player as I did in an earlier post, but not for showing their contempt for Dyche and his tactics. Danny O'Neill 113 Posted 18/09/2024 at 20:13:56 Brian, I appreciate some like to get away early. Traffic, journey home, frustration etc. But I won't leave the ground until every player has left the pitch, regardless of the result. Mike Doyle 114 Posted 18/09/2024 at 20:27:34 Rob #108 & Danny #109. In a nod back to the mid 70s, you guys attend virtually every game. Surely you must be close to the ‘cushion throwing' stage? Less than 25% possession against Southampton reserves alone merits a reaction surely? Si Cooper 115 Posted 18/09/2024 at 20:31:12 PF, when I read the posts I see plenty of them calling the substitution simply as a defender replacing an attacker, which I, along with MK and a few others, disagree with.I think it's valid to ask supporters to consider intent when assessing situations rather than just react to memes.“But you have to ask why he didn't start Young at left back and play McNeil in the 10 role.”Probably because we are already at lowest ebb with experienced defenders and the hope was we could win it anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if he would have preferred not to use Young at all. Allen Rodgers 116 Posted 18/09/2024 at 20:32:53 Danny, I admire your dedication but I sat through 90+ minutes of the most excruciating game last night. I decided if it went to penalties, I would get off. I walked out and was not surprised to see hundreds doing the same. We sat on the 919 bus on Walton Lane in almost total silence. The news that we were knocked out was greeted with resignation. Last night's gate was 5,000 short of a full house. People are starting to vote with their feet. Fred Quick 117 Posted 18/09/2024 at 20:41:22 Dyche on mega-bucks with a lifestyle most of us can only dream of, same with the majority of the players, yet let's blame the fans for showing their disquiet and booing. If you can show me another set of supporters who have had to put up with as much crap for as long as Evertonians have, and are fully supportive of their team whilst they play rubbish most of the time, I'm all ears.It really annoys me that the staff and players can't perform to a minimal level at Goodison when we get fairly big crowds most of the time, and I'm currently watching super Brighton in a half-full stadium, scoring great goals and playing proper footy, what would Goodison be like if we could see our team do that? Derek Knox 118 Posted 18/09/2024 at 20:48:45 Mike @ 114, Jeez, I remember the cushion-throwing scenario. I was at that match, and if memory serves it was Coventry City. Who, oddly enough, I am watching now vs Spurs. Not a great watch by any stretch, may switch over to Brighton vs Wolves, but I may miss the cushion throwing. :-) Paul Ferry 119 Posted 18/09/2024 at 20:53:32 Si 115: I see plenty of them calling the substitution simply as a defender replacing an attacker, which I, along with MK and a few others, disagree with.Si, that is what MK said and it would appear that he is "calling the substitution simply as a defender replacing an attacker" and then slapping "Evertonians" across their wrists for booing."I shouldn't need to point out that McNeil started the game in one of Young's normal positions. And when Young came on, McNeil vacated that position and moved up front, where Beto had been".So it seems that, like me, you "disagree" with Michael. James Marshall 120 Posted 18/09/2024 at 20:56:53 On the flip side – I've just been watching Man City v Inter and it's so dull to watch. I don't enjoy the brand of football that Guardiola has inflicted upon the world at all. Dyche is a victim of this in many ways – his ideas and tactics are just so different to the way the modern game is played, and the way the modern player wants to play. They appear conflicted on the pitch and I'm not surprised about the rumours of discontent in the squad, if true.I would love to hear Dyche, Woan and Stone mic'd up on the touchline – they're often in discussion, but the tactics never seem to change, so what exactly are they talking about? Rob Halligan 121 Posted 18/09/2024 at 21:01:38 Allan # 116… Leicester City away – Sold outCrystal Palace home – sold outNewcastle Utd home – sold out. I hardly think people are starting to vote with their feet. Paul Ferry 122 Posted 18/09/2024 at 21:06:32 The small number of dedicated Saints fans (respect to them) also brought numbers down Allan (16). How anyone can leave as the game went to penalties is absolutely astonishing to me. Christine Foster 123 Posted 18/09/2024 at 21:07:12 Danny @109, I think you hit the nail on the head. The defensive concentration surrenders possession and isolates any centre forward, Beto or Calvert-Lewin. The long punts from Pickford are a complete waste of time if no one is close to him, he cannot win the header, chase the flick, and beat 3 defenders and then score! Yet that's how we are playing! Calvert-Lewin is excellent at holding a ball up with his back to goal waiting for players to catch up; Beto isn't. The tactics require someone like a Tony Cottee to feed off the main striker; otherwise, the ball comes straight back. Our possession stats drop like a brick and we are constantly under pressure with no out. They can't score from their penalty area if we have the ball, can they? Rob Halligan 124 Posted 18/09/2024 at 21:10:43 Paul, from where I was sitting, I didn't see anybody walking out as penalties were about to start. Billy Bradshaw 125 Posted 18/09/2024 at 21:14:37 Paul @ 122, how can anyone leave the game, think it's called the Dyche effect. Paul Ferry 126 Posted 18/09/2024 at 21:23:26 I get that Billy (125), but penalties mate ... Ray Roche 127 Posted 18/09/2024 at 21:31:37 Mike @114, Del @118,I know that the cushion-throwing was common in the late fifties early sixties as a means of voicing disapproval at a poor performance, but if we had had to watch the kind of dross that has been served up for the last few seasons, Goodison would have been razed to the ground. Cushions wouldn't have been an option! Mike Doyle 128 Posted 18/09/2024 at 21:59:04 Ray & Derek. My history of attending Goodison started in 1970 so cannot comment on the 50s & 60s.But from my usual spot in the Paddock I recall several instances of cushion throwing during the Billy Bingham / Gordon Lee eras - and always from the Main Stand. I think that was the only part of the ground you could hire them. Allen Rodgers 129 Posted 18/09/2024 at 22:02:41 Rob @121, If we had a good start to the season it would have been a full house last night and home fans would have taken the empty Upper Visitors. In my usual seat, I was surrounded by strangers, only about 20% of my fellow STH's were there and most live locally. Our league games sell out because of the high number of STH's. 5,000 empty seats at a cup game tells its own story. Christine Foster 130 Posted 18/09/2024 at 22:03:16 I remember standing in Goodison Road as a kid when the cushions rained down from above as a visible sign of discontent at the dugout, it didn't happen very often but it was a litmus test of manager and tactics. I remember those blue plastic hard edged missiles well (in fact I took one home where I used it in my kitchen till it fell apart). Michael 69#, I doubt anyone who booed the substitution knew at the time what the reasoning was, they just saw an attacker removed for a full-back. They weren't privy to Dyche's tactical plan. Those of us commenting after the game did see the tactical change but didn't agree with it. I called it for what it was, McNeil isn't a centre-forward and we immediately lost an aerial threat up front with the change. As to a physical one, Beto is a handful; McNeil can finish but he is in no way a physical threat to centre-backs. The change would have made more sense playing McNeil alongside or behind Beto, that's why I saw it as stupid. Tony Abrahams 131 Posted 18/09/2024 at 22:09:15 I've never been that interested in having the most possession, Si, and have always been more interested in what a team does when they have possession.If it's true that Everton only had possession for a quarter of the game, but made at least double the chances Southampton did, then it's why I believe that these stats are somewhat meaningless at times.I was only watching at home but I thought Ndiaye never really pushed onto the last Southampton defender, and once he started going deeper, you could see the confidence levels grow in their centre-backs.The game was like a practice match and did nothing to ease the fans' lack of confidence in the squad – but we have got to keep believing… even though there is very little belief. Danny O'Neill 132 Posted 18/09/2024 at 22:29:06 We will never vote with our feet. Sold out home and away every week and those fortunate enough to get in are just that, fortunate. If you don't want to go, give up your ticket to someone who does. There are plenty who do want to.Your last paragraph sums it up, Tony.See you all at Leicester. Rob Dolby 133 Posted 18/09/2024 at 22:32:52 The team is set up to sit deep and hit teams on the break, Doucoure is key to this. Sometimes it works; most times it doesn't.Possession is fine for Man City with their top quality players. Southampton may have more possession in most games this season; let's see how they get on this year!We all see the game slightly differently. During the 2nd half, the defence did step up a few yards and we pressed slightly higher up the pitch. Beto and Ndiaye never stopped doing doggies across the pitch without either centre-mid putting pressure on the opposition which resulted in an easy pass into midfield.Lindstrom, although wasteful, at least got in good positions so that's a small positive, the lad can also deliver a decent cross, which Calvert-Lewin will like.We are missing Branthwaite, Coleman and Mykolenko from the successful defensive unit from last season. Like it or not, we are missing the defensive duties of Onana and squad depth of Gomes.The players haven't thrown the towel in, they are still fighting for the shirt. We were always going to struggle this season, 4th from bottom is the target again I am afraid.Mike @128, You could hire cushions in the Bullens Road stand, it was a treat on a cold night to sit on one. Paul Ferry 134 Posted 18/09/2024 at 22:46:07 Allen (129): did you see/have you seen the huge rows of empty seats for league cup games at Brighton (16,018), for example, Coventry (24,616), QPR for a derby game (13,945), Brentford (13,364), Preston v Fulham (5,530), Old Trafford (can't find the attendance).Brighton's attendance was more or less half their capacity and there was a very good turn-out by Wolves fans.33,842 is more than decent. It is in fact a very good crowd for a League Cup game that normally has significantly smaller crowds than for Premier League games. You're talking absolute rubbish, Allen, and for the life of me, I cannot understand why someone who supports us would want to go to the lengths that you do on your utterly misguided and ill-informed rant to - what? - drag Everton down a couple of pegs.I note that you also signally failed to include the issue of low turnout from Southampton but that does not fit into your narrative does it?Your missing 5,000 is chasing windmills but you carry on, Allen, in your "me vs the world" heroics. "Voting with their feet"! Jesus wept. Why don't you thank the the people – the very large number of people – who were at the ground, Allen? Rob Halligan 135 Posted 18/09/2024 at 22:56:58 Allen # 129… There must have been a reason as to why the Upper Bullens was not made available to home supporters last night, but I don't know what it was? The away allocation for Goodison is around 2,700 supporters, yet Southampton only had about 400 - 500, meaning the away section was down by about 2,200 – nearly half of the 5,000 empty seats. Just because the attendance was not at full capacity last night doesn't mean fans are starting to vote with their feet. If that were the case, then the few thousand seats that are available to members etc, would remain unsold for every home game. As soon as these seats are made available, they are snapped up within hours, if not days. As Danny says, the fans of Everton will never vote with their feet. Jay Harris 136 Posted 19/09/2024 at 00:07:54 I have been going to Goodison since the beginning of the '60s and cannot remember any cushion throwing until the late '70s and possibly in Howard's early months in charge.Some games it was like it was raining cushions – so crowd disaffection is not a new thing.Blues supporters do not like being served up rubbish. Si Cooper 137 Posted 18/09/2024 at 00:17:08 Paul (119), I read MK's post as him disagreeing that the replacement was simply Young (defender) for Beto (attacker) and him having a poke at those who didn't seem to recognise that it released McNeil from his defensive duties so that he could join the attack with the likes of Harrison, Ndiaye, and Lindstrom. Are we three not all supporting the same thing; that if people booed the substitution simply because they thought it was a wholly negative / defensive move, then perhaps they should reconsider their ‘intuitive' response?I was also responding to Brian Harrison (112) who apparently wanted some reason for why Young didn't start the game at left back. Kieran Kinsella 138 Posted 19/09/2024 at 00:41:50 Lack of communication between our useless players has been mentioned as an issue by Tony Abrahams and others. We could solve this with pagers or walkie-talkies. You can get a good deal on Hungarian made Taiwan licensed devices. Paul Ferry 139 Posted 19/09/2024 at 00:48:06 Thanks Si (137): really good post. Jimmy Cormack 140 Posted 19/09/2024 at 02:08:24 As someone who could only dream of going to watch Everton, week-in & week-out, it seems crazy that people would stop going. I've seen the Blues four times in my life, once against Sydney FC, Western Sydney Wanderers and Celtic respectively in Australia.I was lucky enough to make my one and only pilgrimage to Goodison in 2015 and was even luckier to see us beat defending champions Chelsea (the Naismith perfect hat trick!). I've often described this as the best day of my life — exceptions being the birth of my children.But I can only try to understand the frustration and disappointment of the local fans being absolutely suffocated by it.Onwards to Leicester away and hoping for a much-needed win! I will be up 12 midnight Aussie time cheering the Boys in Blue on. Paul Ferry 141 Posted 19/09/2024 at 03:59:09 Jimmy, does the game start at midnight for you? I'd be happy with that. So would any drinker! Christine Foster 142 Posted 19/09/2024 at 04:02:18 It's a 4 am start here, Paul. Too late to stay up, too early to get up… But I do! :-( Paul Ferry 143 Posted 19/09/2024 at 06:10:30 You're a great blue, Christine. That's a truly shite time. The worst. What the feck can you do? And when it's done and dusted, whatever the result, you're thinking over it again, the worst thing for sleep and the birds are singing.Imagine, Christine, if a mate said to you 35 years ago as you were heading towards Spellow Lane that in 35 years time you'll be in New Zealand waking up at 3:30 am to watch the match on something called the internet or satellite TV? Jimmy Cormack 144 Posted 19/09/2024 at 06:32:38 Paul (141), It does mate and yes I've usually had a few beers by then! I remember watching the football whilst in Liverpool at 3 o'clock on a Saturday afternoon and it feeling such a surreal experience! Derek Knox 145 Posted 19/09/2024 at 06:36:36 Paul and Christine, it's bad enough watching in GMT, but if we have played shite, which has recently been the norm, I can't relax, turn off, and go to sleep. I wouldn't mind betting Dyche, or the players for that matter, never have that issue. Then again, they are not true Evertonians are they, more on the mercenary side? Paul Ferry 146 Posted 19/09/2024 at 06:42:55 I bet you get messed around by these fecking times these days, Jimmy. But midnight for overseas is just about as good as it gets – okay, 9 pm or 10 pm, which might be near your 12:30 pm UK kick-offs????Spot on, the sacred time is 3 pm Saturday. Town for a drink or two, taxi to County Road for a few more. Feck, I miss that.We probably passed each other a few hundred times or more on Goodison Road, Jimmy. Paul Ferry 147 Posted 19/09/2024 at 06:45:20 The worst thing, Derek K, is that when we lose I have 6 more hours of that day's misery than you lot over there. So, it's lucky that we win more than we lose, right ....... Andy Mead 148 Posted 19/09/2024 at 07:23:29 A traditional 3 pm kick-off is 10 pm or 11 pm here in Perth, so for the last couple of years I'd fall asleep drunk watching the rubbish we are served up. No problem with sleeping at all. Tony Abrahams 149 Posted 19/09/2024 at 08:17:37 I think Allen, has got a point because I was offered a ticket twice by two different match going fans, and declined because I couldnt be bothered going to the match.Im not sure if it was because people were voting with their feet or it was because they just couldnt be bothered going, which was the case with myself and the two people who both offered me a ticket, but the early season optimism has already disintegrated after five games and Evertonians, are once again getting put through the grinder.My hat goes off to the fans, who dont live in the city and sometimes have a very long drive home after watching unadulterated shite, and I tipped my hat to a Saints fan, who I saw when I was driving home from my mothers house on Tuesday night.I used to do that I thought, and now I cant even be bothered going to Goodison, but Im sure Ill get the bug again because the other half of my brain, loves Everton. Dave Abrahams 150 Posted 19/09/2024 at 08:54:16 I think Allen (129), is right, these home league cup ties have very good attendances because quite a lot of fans take their children and grandchildren to visit Goodison Park especially this season because it is the last chance they will have to go there and for some it is more affordable.Fans have always voted with their feet none more so than in Kendalls first time in charge, 16,000 for some league games and just over10, 000 for the league cup tie when the “ Kendall out” pamphlets were distributed, Inthink a lot of Everton fans never returned to watch Everton after that season, the performances rinsed Everton out of their system.Thats why Dyche has got to change a lot of Bluenoses are up to fuckin here with his ultra defensive style even though the squad he has make it necessary, to a degree, but enough is enough for plenty of fans, take Tony, my son, he has never been so apathetic in Everton like this before. Some like me just grin and bear it and even the grin is very thin! Paul Ferry 151 Posted 19/09/2024 at 08:57:50 Poor Dave A - 150 - sorry, mate, I think Rob and I took care of Allen's pretty silly argument. Your local ticket stuff doesn't change any of that. That was a fucking great crowd after our shitty start to the season and given that the league cup rarely fills grounds. So, as Rob notes, they were 1350 or so short in their end. We got you and two mates who decided not to go. So what? Still a boss turn out in the circumstances - I gave you a lot of comparative figures.Also noted, that MK has not replied to responses to his #89, 60 posts ago, that are, quite honestly, pretty critical. And that does seem a tad ironic given MK's usual rambunctious robust style. But, LL/MK, we still love the founding fathers! Michael Kenrick 152 Posted 19/09/2024 at 09:13:52 Can you really make a case that fans are "voting with their feet" as Allen claims? Or is a lower attendance for such a game to be expected and nothing unusual, as Paul claims?Here are the League Cup attendances at Goodison Park, going back rather conveniently to the last time we played Southampton at home in Round 3: Tue 17 Sep 2024, Southampton – 33,842Tue 27 Aug 2024, Doncaster – 37,245Tue 19 Dec 2023, Fulham – 38,715 Wed 1 Nov 2023, Burnley – 38,841Wed 19 Dec 2019, Leicester – 39,027Tue 29 Oct 2019, Watford – 34,979Tue 2 Oct 2018, Southampton – 30,545I was surprised to see how high these attendances are in recent years, as I thought like Paul that folks simply did not turn out in full numbers for midweek League Cup games but post-Covid, this seems to be less true than it used to be. If you go back another year, to 2017, we played Sunderland (Wed 20 Sep) in front of only 23,593. But, in comparison to other opponents, I think you could certainly argue that Southampton is not going to draw a full crowd.There are of course extenuating circumstances that differ for each game in the context of each season, but I agree that Tony's reluctance to attend on Tuesday may well have been shared by a few hundred or a few thousand others. Does that mean Evertonians are "voting with their feet"? Perhaps for a few of them, yes. But does it mean we will now see a significant decline in Premier League attendances, as Allen implies? I think not (although there is always some variation) – and I think Danny explains exactly why. Through our utterly awful years, the astounding thing for me has been the resilience of the match-going fans, no matter the abysmal dross they are watching. Dave Abrahams 153 Posted 19/09/2024 at 09:14:39 Well I still think that this being Evertons last season at Goodison Park has a bearing on the attendances for these league cup ties, it would be interesting to see last seasons attendances at those league cup ties in comparison to this season and also the style of play being offered up.By the way I expect Everton to improve very soon with a fully fit squad and we will have full houses for the remaining league games, if we dont improve I think a lot of tickets will be handed on to their mates, thats if their mates want to go! Rob Halligan 154 Posted 19/09/2024 at 09:24:12 Dave # 150………there were plenty of mitigating circumstances as to why attendances were lower back in the 80s than what they are today. The main one bring the high unemployment figures sweeping the country, none more so than here on Merseyside. People simply couldnt afford to go the games on their own, never mind with a couple of kids in tow. Hooliganism was also still rife back then. Even under Kendall Mk.1, the first year we won the league I think our average attendance was around the 32K mark, so were people voting with their feet then, no they simply just could not afford to go the match. Danny O'Neill 155 Posted 19/09/2024 at 09:28:22 Tony @149, you'll get the bug again. We can't help ourselves!Dave @150, your grin and bear it sums it up for me. We keep going, we keep believing. One day, it has to change. Brian Harrison 156 Posted 19/09/2024 at 09:35:56 Michael 152What a difference a day makes yesterday you were suggesting that the claim that Everton supporters were the best in the world, was completely erroneous because of some booing at Dyches substitutions. To now produce figures which would suggest that if not the best in the world they are certainly must be amongst Britain's best. Especially as for the last couple of seasons we have been involved in a relegation battle right up till the last couple of games of the season. Danny O'Neill 157 Posted 19/09/2024 at 09:39:22 Rob,I used my paper round money to queue and get in for £1.50 if I remember. My mother bought me a season ticket for several years. God knows how she afforded it. Probably from a Speke loan shark.I always paid her back in later life.I spent many years not being able to watch Everton, but now I can, I never turn down the opportunity.Like I've already said, if people don't want to go, offer your tickets to those who do.Approximately 30,000 on the season ticket waiting list. Incredible.And once again, respect for those in NZ, Australia, the US and other places around the globe for get up in the early hours. I've been there. Ray Roche 158 Posted 19/09/2024 at 09:39:39 Rob@154All very true what you say Rob, dark days for many people. I also think that the game has been ‘sold as a family friendly spectacle now and with more tv exposure, which was largely missing in the eighties compared to now, children can see their heroes on tv as well as in the ground. Christopher Timmins 159 Posted 19/09/2024 at 09:39:53 MichaelUnfortunately since the School of Science side, with the exception of Kendall mark 1 and Martinez year 1, its been dross or at best a hard watch.Some of the younger fans dont know what attractive joined up football looks like.BinghamLeeSmithAllardyceDycheWhat does one expect! Dave Cashen 160 Posted 19/09/2024 at 09:41:04 Interesting debate you have sparked here Allen.A 5hr hour round trip and my work (which admittedly is my choice) prevents me from going to a most games. Watching the blues on the telly or my laptop means I only give up 90mins rather than the entire day.I think the fact that it was on the box and everyone knew both clubs would field weakened teams made the option to sit at home and watch it with a few beers a bit more attractive to some fans. If the clubs don't take the competition seriously, we can hardly be surprised if some fans feel the same way. I'm not sure that constitutes voting with their feet though. I thought just shy of 35,000 was a very decent crowd under the circumstances. Our away support is absolutely rock solid. Annoyingly so sometimes ): Especially when you have to sit among home fans if you want to see us play and the length of the waiting list for season tickets would suggest the home support is rock solid too.TBH I'm always amazed when I see sold out signs for our televised games particularly when so many in attendance have to travel long hours to spend their afternoons sitting in seats with severely obstructed views. The fans are definitely turning against Dyche, But I expect them to stick around to tell him so rather than stay away. They were here before him and they will still be here long after he's gone Christine Foster 161 Posted 19/09/2024 at 09:47:23 Danny, 155# I look forward to reading your posts because they are always uplifting in even the most miserable days after some of the results. Looking forward rather than back, I always try to remember that before I post these days so really, thank you for that. The amount of posts I have written and deleted when I have read some of yours just goes to show how apathetic and upset I have become! I look at the stadium, it brings pride and joy to my heart, I can almost forgive Moshiri for all his transgressions because of it. I look at the poor football and it upsets me because of the ethos behind the tactics, but even that I could convince myself that its where we are and we need to get out of it. But there are days when I just cannot see how we do it. Have we progressed in the past three years? No, gone backwards I think.. a new owner is on the cards but its a new vision we need to believe in. So I am glad you keep the faith better than I do Danny, I feel like I have gone through 8 rounds of a ten rounder with Mike Tyson.. the last hours before dawn is the darkest they say, so keep showing the way Danny... if there was an award for keeping our spirits up, you won it, hands down. Danny O'Neill 162 Posted 19/09/2024 at 09:54:51 Totally Dave Cashen. As Rob said, if Southampton had sold out their allocation rather than just 400-500, then it would have been close to 38,000.Not everyone can get to the match for various reasons. I've been saying for weeks that the supporters are turning on Dyche.Also, the calls for Moyes, who my brother and nephew want. I think it would divide the fan base 50-50. Not what we need.3,000 travelling to the King Power on Saturday, many of them will be young supporters who have never seen us win anything. Incredible dedication. Christine Foster 163 Posted 19/09/2024 at 10:01:43 So many take for granted the chance to go to the match, no matter what. I have seen the 1962-63 champions standing on the pitch, watching them receive the league title, to dire days in the '70s, to the magnificent '80s, to Wembley in 1995.. and purgatory every year since..Early days when I would be proudly holding a little blue and gold book of season tickets for each game and for the Central league games too... Cutting vouchers out of programmes to get a Cup Final ticket, standing for hours to get one, standing on the East Lancs Road hitchiking a lift to London with a dozen others in a van.So getting up in the early hours is nothing, because what I wouldn't give to walk through Goodison once more. Don't take love for granted, enjoy and treasure every minute of being a blue. No matter how frustrating it is, it's nothing like not being able to actually go to a game again. The thought keeps me driven... Michael Kenrick 164 Posted 19/09/2024 at 10:09:57 Brian, I think your posts generally demonstrate a degree of absolutism that will forever see you frustrated because it's the subtle nuances that you seem to be missing, in favour blanket generalizations that feed whatever paranoia is the flavour of the day. Booing at the game is an instant emotion which many deride. It's rendered more embarrassing if the logic behind it is flawed.The largely unrelated behaviour of not turning up at all for the game can have many different causal components, but you go ahead and conflate the two if you think that helps. ps: Paul @151, I know you love a good fight but how your post @119 makes out that Si's post @115 is somehow disagreeing with mine @89 is taking warmongering on here to a new level. Tony Abrahams 165 Posted 19/09/2024 at 10:16:39 If you read Dave's post again Rob, or cast your memory back, it was obvious people had began to vote with their feet, just before Kendall's team became good, which was explained by that famous leaflet claiming that thirty thousand stay-at-home fans, can't be wrong.I don't think Evertonians will start voting with their feet because I'm certain it would already have been done by now if this was the case. Considering the absolute shite we have had to put up with for a very long time, how many people actually enjoy watching Everton play right now?If I'm being honest, I enjoyed the first five months of Moyes's last season, and I enjoyed the first season when Roberto had a dream, but other than that, I haven't enjoyed much. The final eleven games of Marco Silva's first season gave me hope, but Marcel Brands had crushed that by the end of the following transfer window. Danny O'Neill 166 Posted 19/09/2024 at 10:17:23 Christine, hopefully you can make the trip to Goodison and then next season to the new stadium at Bramley-Moore DockEverton are like an infection that we can't ignore and there is no medicine that can cure it. Nor would we want it.I know you and many others will be with us on Saturday, no matter what. Danny O'Neill 167 Posted 19/09/2024 at 10:22:24 Tony,I remember the leaflets. "Kendall Must Go".Right now, as much the optimist I am, I'm watching the clock from the second minute!! Steve Brown 168 Posted 19/09/2024 at 10:25:17 This is essential listening on the manager debate, but please dont listen if you are easily offended.Link Brian Harrison 169 Posted 19/09/2024 at 10:44:46 Tony & DannyWhat dramatically changed under Howard Kendall was the promotion of Colin Harvey to first-team coach, replacing Mick Heaton. Colin was a great coach and his impact was there all through Howard's first spell.I think events transpired against Colin when Howard went to Bilbao. I still wonder why? Yes, the lure of European football, maybe losing the Barcelona job to Venables had something to do with it. I think we were 6th in the league when Colin was sacked as manager, and wasn't really given much time to bring in new players. Michael Kenrick 170 Posted 19/09/2024 at 10:47:32 Steve @168,That link does not work for me. Can you fix it our post a better one? Thanks! Eddie Dunn 171 Posted 19/09/2024 at 10:52:29 Danny @162 thinking about your comment regarding our super away support, many of whom are youngsters who haven't seen us win anything, makes me cast my mind back to the late '70s when despite winning the League in 69-70, it seemed ages ago.As I watched Kendall's babes in '83 away in Nottingham(where I was a student) I wondered when the good times would return.Little did I know it was just round the corner.When I would chat to my Portsmouth mates they would talk of their fathers watching Pompey win the league in the fifties but their fans travelled everywhere in good numbers without a sniff of a trophy for decades.It is the deal that fans get dealt.We older ones do have those marvellous memories but it is fantastic to see our younger crowd so enthusiastic.I hope that new ownership will bring new management and new players to that new stadium and those kids get to experience silverware. Tony Abrahams 172 Posted 19/09/2024 at 10:56:10 That's a different argument on a thread that has just got interesting because of some very good and sensible posts regarding the current feelings amongst the very loyal Evertonians, Brian.It is my belief that Colin Harvey was a football visionary, and he was more suited to training and coaching on the training ground, rather than being a football manager.My brother had one of those leaflets on the bedroom door, Danny. I can still remember ripping it and even believed I had some special powers for a little while because suddenly Everton's fortunes changed and we started winning. What joy those next few years brought. Mike Doyle 173 Posted 19/09/2024 at 10:56:46 Rob # 154. You make a very good point about high unemployment being a factor in the 80s – it certainly stopped people I know (blues & reds) from attending.It did make me wonder though, Rob, how much die-hards such as yourself – who attend virtually every game – are spending each year? Perhaps though it might depress you to work it out? Danny O'Neill 174 Posted 19/09/2024 at 10:58:22 Yes Brian, Colin Harvey had a massive impact. Apparently Howard was about to quit, but over a few pints in a Liverpool city centre pub, Colin pursued him to stay and bring him in.I love Colin Harvey, he epitomises the ultimate Evertonian. He was a great coach but didn't cut it as a manager. He preferred being on the training ground. I'll caveat the manager piece with that being him following in the boots of our most successful manager and the club starting it's failure to build on the platform we had built. There were many and obvious reasons for that. Tony Abrahams 175 Posted 19/09/2024 at 11:13:22 Neville Southall explains what scousers are like better than most people when he talks about those very dark days in Thatcher's Britain.Everyone was out of work but, wherever we went, including into Europe, there were always thousands of Evertonians inside the ground and it always seemed to be the same when watching Liverpool play on the television.What do you think the diehards spend on watching Everton play? I'll leave that to others because I'm not so fanatical right now but, I love the story that John Motson told after once meeting a diehard Evertonian on a train. He couldn't get over the time, effort and money, the man put into watching Everton, but I suppose this is what has made Everton such a special football club to begin with. Danny O'Neill 176 Posted 19/09/2024 at 11:21:03 Neville's quote is great Tony. Know they were were different times, but "You almost have to be a scouser to play for Everton. Almost"Coming from a Welshman.Being the type of person he is, I wish he could be more involved with the club. I'm not sure he would want to be and I'm not sure how well he would go down in the corridors of power. Tony Abrahams 177 Posted 19/09/2024 at 11:27:36 The fact that Neville Southall wasn't made welcome tells you everything about the last utterly repulsive regime, Danny.The most iconic picture of any Everton player since Dave Watson picked up the FA Cup, is Richarlison holding that blue pyro above his head Danny, and he definitely reminded me of a scouser when he tried to throw it outside the ground! Dave Abrahams 178 Posted 19/09/2024 at 11:29:50 I thank Howard Kendall for those 4 great years when we got our pride back and could look Rednoses straight in the eye, even better look forward to playing them and beating them.I thank Colin Harvey even more, he had a massive importance and influence on those victorious four years, Howard never would be a winning manager again anywhere and the less said about his two other times as manager, the better.As for the hard times of the those years in the eighties, I don't believe the gates went from 30,000 or more down to 16,000 and getting booed off the field under Kendall's first reign because people couldn't afford it, it was mostly down to the shit getting served up, although it was better shit than the present muck. Rob Halligan 179 Posted 19/09/2024 at 11:35:52 Mike # 173… depress me, I think the shock might kill me!! Even if you just consider when £30 for away fans tickets was introduced, season 2016-17, that's £570 just on tickets alone. Then factor in travel, coach or train, probably another £500 - £600. So there's anything between £1,150 - £1,200 per season, just getting there, seeing the match and coming home. Times that by eight years, so just under £10k. Then add on about £4,500 for a season ticket for home games. So for the last 8 years, you're looking at just under £15k. Throw in cup games, European aways, pre-season friendlies away in Europe, and food and drink and the figure just goes up and up!! When we had those few years in Europe, I reckon those European aways per season could have amounted to £3K+. So there's probably another £15K+.So being realistic, since I started going to away games regularly, since the 1994-95 season, I'm estimating I could have spent anywhere between £75k - £85k… even touching £100k!! Just your average Premier League players weekly wage!!Now then, where's that defibrillator!! Ray Robinson 180 Posted 19/09/2024 at 11:40:36 Firstly, just short of 34,000 was an excellent attendance for a midweek Carabao Cup game but I do think a few thousand did vote with their feet. When the away fans don't take up their full allocation, we usually take up the vacant seats in the Upper Bullens. They were empty on Tuesday because we didn't fully sell out the rest of the ground. Therefore, I would estimate that about 4,000 fans voted “not to bother” turning up. The reasons for that could be manifold: a) the fact that the club increased the price; b) it's midweek and difficult for some to attend; c) the short purchasing window; d) discretionary expenditure; and e) apathy. I know that e) must have had some effect as me and my mate briefly considered “giving it a miss” – but, of course we didn't.If we'd been doing well, we'd have sold out. Dyche's football is most definitely having a wearing effect! Don't forget also that thousands are hanging onto their season tickets due to the lure of the new stadium.I don't think this is a criticism in any way of the loyalty of our fans. Most teams would have been lucky to draw 25,000 for Tuesday's game.One further point, if you remember in the eighties when our attendances hit an all time low, there was (in my life time) unprecedented unemployment, Liverpool and Man Utd's crowds were rock bottom, football was in the grip of terrible matchday violence, and crowds were actually lowered by the clubs to dodge VAT (no automatic turnstiles in those days).No, the Evertonians support is rock solid but being tested to the limit these days! Danny O'Neill 181 Posted 19/09/2024 at 11:41:35 Yes, that was iconic from Richarlison, Tony.He showed a lot of respect when he came back to Goodison.Dave, Dr David wrote a very good article on Colin Harvey "The Greatest Evertonian ever". Boyhood supporter, player, youth coach, first-team coach, manager. "All I ever want to do was play for Everton."He lived the dream we all dreamed of. Christine Foster 182 Posted 19/09/2024 at 11:47:35 My Screensaver, Tony, he was banned for a match and fined £25k for it, but I bet he didn't mind.Iconic. I think if he could, he would walk all the way back from London for the chance to play for us once more. Mike Doyle 183 Posted 19/09/2024 at 12:50:45 Rob #179. Apologies for being the prompter of further depression. I hope you have a very understanding wife (or have kept the figures hidden from her)! Martin Farrington 184 Posted 19/09/2024 at 17:45:46 Well if this is the Masters plan its going swimmingly.As Sky have fucked us ex-pats over and wont allow espana to show any Carabao Cup games and no radio station will allow us to listen, I just kept on the updates occasionally.I saw the highlight on YouTube. I'm not sure how any other so-called missing players would have made much of a difference. Calvert-Lewin wouldn't have scored in the 1 v 1s.O'Brien will learn from that set play where they scored.I actually feel sorry for Young. It wasn't that bad of a penalty.Their keeper realised before ours that, if it's a right-footer, go left. (Left go right) Which is the way Southampton took theirs. Our team not having a forward in the entire club without zig and zag is an absolute disgrace and on Thelwell. He is 100 % responsible for this League One squad. Dyche is a terrible game management manager and his tactics are fucking odd. Another humbling and another laugh for the rns. Oh joy. Now Leicester., away. Gulp. Paul Ferry 185 Posted 19/09/2024 at 17:50:33 Great post and digging round, Michael @152; that surprised me too. Mark Murphy 186 Posted 19/09/2024 at 18:23:00 Christopher Timmons,I still maintain that Gordon Lee was unfairly judged. Maybe because the Championship side of 69-70 was still fresh in the memory.I had some absolutely glorious homes and aways under Gordon Lee. Everton were Mmgic (or possibly mercurial?)It's unfair to label him full – we played some great stuff.I miss it. Paul Ferry 187 Posted 19/09/2024 at 19:14:23 Christopher T (159): some of the best football I have ever seen at Goodison was under Gordon Lee. Is it his cape and coffin physiognomy that makes people either unable to accept that his teams could play or forgetting things in a cognitive subconscious refual to put the count out of mind?Andrei Kanchelskis? No thanks. Dave Thomas every day of the week. Danny O'Neill 188 Posted 19/09/2024 at 19:22:23 Paul, the best I remember under Gordon Lee, and I was only very young, was Duncan McKenzie. He was magic as the chant used to go!I'll have to disagree with regards to Kanchelskis. Alongside Rodriguez, the last top quality players we signed. Paul Ferry 189 Posted 19/09/2024 at 19:33:39 Wonderful memories of Mr Magic Danny. Mick Buckley was a hero of mine who might have gone on to become a great. He was that good, but fates conspired. But he had the good fortune to play alongside one of the most elegant midfielders I have ever seen in our shirt, Martin Dobson.The image of Lee – damn, I'm blanking on his #2 – and a sub squeezed and huddled up in that tiny little box with blankets around the knees always makes me chuckle.Remember the quote from Gordon Lee: "People keep on about stars and flair. As far as I'm concerned, you find stars in the sky and flair at the bottom of your trousers." Pete Lloyd 190 Posted 20/09/2024 at 14:32:34 Interesting comments on the cushion throwing as I am approaching the 60th anniversary of my first game: 3 October 1964 will live long in my memory, recent cup winners West Ham being the visitors. For an 11-year-old, everything about the day was amazing and my view from the bench seats in the Park Road and the aroma of beer, Bovril and tobacco was a defining moment for me.To cap it off, after a 1-1 draw, a cascade of cushions rained down from the main stand, and we were 4th at the time!A mildly interesting fact from the match programme was:-‘The cushion hire service at Goodison Park is supplied and is the Property of C. Greenall, 157 Goodison Road, Liverpool 4'He must have had a big shed!I don't go as often these days but I will be at the Palace game with two of my brothers. Dave Abrahams 191 Posted 20/09/2024 at 14:59:44 Pete (190), It's interesting that the supplier of those cushions lived on Goodison Road and his name was Greenhall. Everton had a full-back named Greenhall in the 1940s who also was on the coaching staff later in his career, I think his first name was Norman. maybe C Greenhall was a relation of his, bit of a soft job with all those cushions! Mark Murphy 192 Posted 20/09/2024 at 15:23:12 I remember a photo in the programme of Big Mick and little Mick together, caked in mud, in the midst of battle. I don't know if it was the same game but they both scored in a much heralded comeback from 2-0 down at the blades to draw 2-2. I've got a feeling they did the same to us at our place but went one better and “did a Bournemouth”??Anyway, a few years ago, my mum, in her late 70s, went to a dance up the East Lancs Road and was asked to dance by a “smallish bloke called Mick who said he used to play for Everton” I rattled off a few names – Pejic, Bernard, Buckley…. “That's him” she said, “Buckley”.I got excited and asked if she was seeing him again but she said she didn't fancy him. She had just been widowed for the third time so I reckon he had a lucky escape! Bill Gall 193 Posted 20/09/2024 at 15:57:54 Christine @163,Reading your post brings back a lot of similar experiences but most of mine were from 1956 to 1976. I have been getting back on an average of every 5 years with the last visit in April this year. I suppose you along with many others have done what I did and that is, after the end of the game on the Saturday, we went round to the Bullens Road side of the ground and started queuing up for cup tickets that were on sale the following, day I think at noon... my wife saying she queued up the same for her dad. I remember the amount of supporters hitch-hiking down the East Lancs in 1966 and 1968 for the cup finals and always wondered how many got there and had tickets to get in?p> Add Your Comments In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site. » Log in now Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site. How to get rid of these ads and support TW © ToffeeWeb