The End is Nigh (for Sean Dyche)

In Premier League terms, we are nothing. Nobody talks about us, nobody cares about us. We are barely worthy of a glib one-liner on Match of the Day, something akin to 'oh Everton will be fine, Dyche is doing a great job'. We are simply out of the big time, we are making up the numbers and boring the whole Premier League while doing so.

What frustrates me is the lack of urgency; the endless waiting for the 'takeover' which most of us are hoping and expecting will drag us out of the mire slowly but surely. The limbo we are in seems endless.

I totally respect those who support Dyche and those who do so deserve credit for loyalty. That being said, you can't help but look at the evidence this season. We aren't going anywhere!

I am no tactician but I was watching incredulously yesterday wondering what was holding him back from throwing Patterson on. What was there to lose?

In short, it's not good enough. It is not worthy of our wonderful history and tradition nor the fans who pay, week-in & week-out, to watch this rubbish.

That said; There is an increasing number of Evertonians asking the same question. We all know who we were, but our identity has been eroded over a longer term than we like to admit. Dyche trying to nil-nil us to safety is doing nothing to cheer the mood among the faithful.

Clubs can and do turn around in the blink of an eye. We can only pray that new ownership will help us to be the latest one to do so.

Who would dare dive in and hire a new manager with new ownership imminent?

Hopefully it is true, we can't go on like this otherwise the unthinkable will be a reality.

Currently on 11 points, we might struggle to get anywhere that total this time around, given that we have to play all of the big hitters, plus games against seemingly revitalised Wolves at Goodison and a trip to Manchester United next weekend.

The only occasions we've reached the halfway point with less than a point per game average were in 2022-23 (15th), 2005-06 and 1997-98 (17th).

In comparison to this season's total of 11 points from 12 matches, the only occasions that we've had less points at this stage is when David Moyes was manager in 2003-04 and 2005-06 when Everton had accrued 10 points. Mike Walker's Everton only accrued 4 measly points in 1994.

Our 19th fixture of this season is against Nottm Forest at Goodison in late December, let's all hope that we've gained a few unexpected victories between now and then.

Surely the acting CEO, will recognise the perilous position were in and pull the plug. With the takeover imminent, there must be some level of dialogue between TFG and the custodians of the club.

I'd be happy for an imminent appointment in the short term, anything to break the stagnation at the club, and maybe give the playing squad a much-needed lift.

The CEO may have the authority to sack Dyche (I don't know), but will he want to be the guy who sacks the guy who may potentially keep us up and bring in a guy who may potentially take us down?

Like you, I am very worried about the way things are now, but there is enormous pressure involved in sacking and recruiting. Especially given our precarious position. Who would make a decision like that when somebody with authority and responsibility will be along in a few weeks to make it or him?

I don't hold with this "Who would come?" argument. The Everton manager's job is still one of the most coveted in world football, but when you talk about a short-term appointment, you don't half narrow the field down.

This squad is far far better than we are currently showing, and I'm convinced a better manager would have us on at least 20 points.

And I'm not having that he saved us last season, the fact we struggled for long parts of the season was because of Dyche.

It's like me pushing someone who can't swim into a swimming pool. Then jumping in to save them and expecting praise.

I bet Dyche himself is surprised he hasn't been sacked yet!

Hopefully the new owners will hit the ground running, and give us all belief again.

Blimey - that's stretching a bit, mate. Why, at this point in time, would that be so? And don't give the old "iconic waterfront stadium" spin.

If so, why do we have Dyche?

Everton manager is currently the 6th highest paid in the Premier League. $6.8M a year makes it attractive.

Guardiola is paid a lot of money to keep him where he is. Our guys are paid a lot just to make it palletable.

A spoonful of sugar... and all that.

The players are playing with a lack of self-belief and confidence, the job of the manager is to instil that, instead of spinning the narrative of what a difficult job it is and lowering expectations.

He seemed to be celebrating a draw at the end of the game, against 10 men in a middle-table team who had yet to pick up any points away from home, says it all to me.

This guy needs to go, for a new manager bounce now.

I am not one for calling for the manager's head usually when things start to go wrong, but in this instance, I can't detect any hint of improvement or any sign that things are likely to get better, so for me he has to go, in fact, he should have gone in the last international break.

The only sign I do get is from the players who don't seem to know what the plan is or how to implement it. It looks to me like they don't believe anymore. All the more reason for a new broom.

The unalterable fact in all this for me is time. We don't have any. Waiting for TFG is like waiting for Godot, we have no idea when they are going to arrive and no idea if they are going to hit the ground running when they finally do arrive. By then, it will probably be too late.

I mentioned a new broom above, but that in itself is contentious. Who should it be? If appointed before TFG takes over, it would have to be a short-term appointment. What managers are available that fit that bill?

I'm afraid I can only think of one and it goes against the grain to mention him and neither would I under different circumstances and that is Moyes.

I don't know if it would work, but in my view we have no choice. We are in a stick-or-twist situation. If we stick,t here's a fair chance we could get relegated, and if we twist, there's a chance we go bust but also a chance of survival.

A bigger gamble in my eyes is waiting for TFG to be in a position to act… it may be far too late then.

People had their judgement clouded by those 5 home wins in April and early May (two of which we were beyond dreadful in by the way).

I can't ignore the fact we went 14 games without a win between 16 December and 6 April.

I also can't ignore how we set up to defend a 0-0 draw in virtually every home game.

Its not just the opportunity to mastermind the awakening of one of footballs sleeping giant that made the Everton job attractive to Three international managers and two CL winners. Nor is it just the opportunity to produce a team for the most passionate fanbase.

Moyes was the 4th highest earning manager in the EPL.

Martinez reportedly quadrupled his wages. went he left Wigan to come here.

Silva came in for a massive, Massive wage rise

Koeman wasnt interested at first, but soon changed his mind when he heard the difference between what he was earning and what we were offering.

Sam and his mates were given the biggest pay day of their coaching/managerial careers.

Rafa too - Even though he had won the CL.

Frank and his mates were offered the sort of wages they never dreamed they would get again

Serial winner Carlo reportedly Earns 11m Euro's at the biggest club in the world. He is STILL short of the 12m quid he earned with us - Not to mention his Family.

I'm assuming Dyche got the job on a horses for courses basis. The enormous bonus he was promised for keeping us up would suggest as much. I don't see the next fella coming in for less than the 5m Dyche reportedly earns

TFG will not need to advertise through the job center for a new manager.

"Premier League clubs often make the mistake of waiting too long to fire the manager."

He thinks that Moyes will go to Leicester.

Having experienced two takeovers myself, there will be numerous conversations each day between the parties involved on a high level, on all sorts of issues.

So all those incoming managers were evidently attracted by the lure of money, not by the kudos of being involved at a prominent level with Everton, doing one of "the most coveted jobs in World football" – despite our prestigious history and the potential "sleeping giant" tag often spoken.

Therein lies a major crux of our problems. We were offering these eyewatering salaries without the commercial acumen or income to cover them, and exacerbated the problem by then having to pay huge compensation to the lucky few when they were shown the door.

They have been significant contributors on their own to our PSR problems and points deductions, never mind the failure to actually do their jobs well. Kenwright clearly has had much to do with this in so far as selling the job to prospective managers, he was a classic snake oil purveyor.

Regarding 'sleeping giants', I hear this phrase often but sadly now wonder if this giant isn't forever tethered. Man City got lucky with the bottomless wealth they enjoyed without any FFP or PSR regulation in the early days of the current custodians. Liverpool and Man U have seriously superior commercial and marketing skills to Everton, allied by recent decades of success at a playing level.

It will be some time, if ever, that we will get close to these levels and I would include Arsenal, to some extent Chelsea and Spurs (I know, I know – Big club? My arse... but at a commercial level somewhat bigger than Everton) and a couple of others. If we could do a bit of a Brighton, Brentford, Aston Villa on the pitch, some of the kudos will return.

I am a dyed-in-the-wool Toffee, and I apologise to all for coming across so down in the mouth about our current situation and potential prospects. I guess the recent and current predicament we suffer is simply wearing me down.

We are going to be a once big club with fantastic support operating out of a beautiful new stadium, as Colin G says, just making up the numbers. Colin's post at 23 below resonates with me.

Arriving where we are now from where we have been in the last century is truly galling.

And that's it. 'Sleeping giant'?, 'Coveted managers job'? I'm not in the least hopeful right now. Depressing, isn't it?

I continue to support Everton because it's all I've done since I was 5 years old. I no longer feel any passion, excitement, even anger towards them. I do, however, feel sadness and emptiness to what we've become, ie, an empty shell with incredibly loyal supporters.

My only hope is Friedkin can somehow turn this sinking ship around and inject some life into this fetid, lifeless creature.

The damage done by Kenwright (and his gang), Moshiri and a string of hopeless managers, including the present incumbent, is almost terminal. Let us pray that there is a greater power who still looks benignly on us.

But it does seem unstoppable now the loud boys have spoken.

However due to other teams managers diligence plus Dyche's stubbornness to alter his tactical style of play, other teams are more than capable of adapting their defending and attacking options when playing us home or away.

The problem that frightens me at this time is with our difficult fixtures till the end of the year there is only 3 points difference between us and the 19th-placed team with no large difference in Goal Difference.

There is another dark cloud hanging over us and that is the FA and PSR rulings (if that is the right term). It seems to me that the FA or someone involved in it has an agenda against Everton and would not hesitate with a points deduction to put us back into and keep us in a relegation spot.

We have new ownership coming in, supposedly in the next few weeks and hopefully it will happen. We don't know what their plans are for the manager but present circumstances make Dyche's position precarious, to put it mildly.

As I said at the beginning, I believed Dyche could keep Everton on track to stay in the Premier League, but with his outdated failing coaching, I can't see him lasting much longer, and I am starting to believe the sooner the better.

Sean Dyche's post-match press conference laid bare the lack of smarts the man has. His reference to changing play, changing style completely ignored the obvious, a real moving deck chairs on the Titanic moment.

Moving the same players into different positions has not, and will not, improve the overall quality of play. Many of our players are quite simply not good enough in any position. Time waits for no one. Some were never good enough to begin with. The likes of Patterson, Dixon, Armstrong, Bates, have to be used. We are bloody well sinking.

Oh and another little point while we are at it: Dele Alli, remember him? Does anyone really think for one miniscule moment that Sean Dyche would ever play him? Listening to his views on No 10s, where does that leave us when sitting somewhere in a dark corner is one of the country's best midfielders of a generation, forgotten. Fit or not, we will never know under Dyche, because, unless he has no choice, he has no place in a Dyche midfield.

This has to stop. He has to go because he cannot change who he is or what he does. Friedkin should be "suggesting" to Moshiri or Chong his interim or immediate replacement.

It's so predictable. No goals in the first half. He waits and waits until the opposition start bringing on subs and then delays more before finally throwing on desperation substitutions. Why the heck he doesn't throw on Beto earlier is beyond me. He creates havoc next to Calvert-Lewin but Dyche doesn't bother.

I also have no idea what he's playing at elsewhere???

Why was Mangala randomly not included when he's been promising and reliable? Why does Doucoure keep getting on the pitch? Where the hell is Dele Alli? And Broja?

As for his post match excuses...

It's the players, it's not having money to make signings, it's VAR, the officials... it's never anything to do with him.

He's actually worse than Sam Allardyce.

Do you honestly believe the majority of comments on here and the very obvious rational given, is a result of the 'lynch mob' wanting the manager out at any cost?

There is a common theme here, if only you wanted to believe it. Carry on in the same vein, 11 points from 12 games, currently that form and points return will most certainly see the club relegated.

Loud voices or not. Something has to change.

Even Dele Alli doesn't know where Dele Alli is right now, let alone Sean Dyche.

There's no way this lad will kick a ball for Everton Football Club again, probably won't make much more of a Premier League career now if we are truly honest, he may get a cameo somewhere for 20 minutes, but frankly I don't see where.

But I get what you mean. There's no way Dyche will ever develop any players.

Patterson is a prime example of a player that should be playing ahead of Ashley Young, not that Young has even been that bad, he's just not a modern day full-back and can't do what's needed… much like the opposite side with Mykolenko.

"Should have shook his hand during the summer really and moved in a new direction".

Who should have done that? For us, it's no longer even a case of the lunatics running the asylum – nobody is running the asylum and haven't been for some time.

Come on, Friedkin, get it over the line – we need something to cheer about.

Have you ever heard of a corporate takeover in which the outgoing ownership fired or hired in a key employee position, committing the new ownership to an eight-figure contract? Of course not.

So if we can agree that Moshiri would not possibly risk his coveted transaction by acting unilaterally, the only current scenario is Christine's idea that Friedkin "suggest" that Moshiri make the change.

I'd consider that highly unlikely, another example of what you'd never see in a standard corporate takeover. Not only would there be legal issues to deal with, but what manager would sign a contract he couldn't officially negotiate with the guy paying him? Would any competent agent let his client commit before the new ownership was fully in place?

It may also not be correct to assume that Friedkin will want to usher in his ownership by immediately changing managers. His view of Dyche may differ from yours, or he may not consider the situation urgent with two-thirds of the season remaining and a transfer window still to come. Friedkin may want to watch and meet the manager for himself, and see what he does with an infusion of new players.

Or, if he indeed has already decided that Dyche must go, I believe he will certainly want a permanent replacement, not an interim, and a top one at that. Who knows, he may already be informally negotiating with Sarri or Conceciao or Allegri (my choices) or whoever else he fancies.

I'm not predicting here, just blindly speculating based on zero evidence. But I think that what you regard as urgent and certain may well be neither in the eyes of our new ownership team.

However, it may be that whoever the hell is in charge at Everton just doesn't want to pay compensation to him and his coaching team and this is a stumbling block.

Secondly, It could also be that, due to the takeover eating up all of the available management time, the commitment to scouting and recruiting a new manager is not considered a priority.

However, if results carry on like this, which is likely during December, someone is eventually going to blink, takeover or no takeover.

I think he already has. Jarrad was by no means the finished product when he was elevated into the starting lineup last season, but look what he became.

And let's not forget Dyche handed a starting job this season to a 21-year-old with less than 50 professional games of experience, and stuck with him through four straight losses. To my eyes young Tim Iroegbunam was growing every game.

I don't know what the issues are with Patterson and O'Brien, but you can't say Dyche has a blanket policy against youngsters.

If Dyche had us lower mid-table, I wouldn't've expected a change of manager until the summer for all of the reasons you outline. But results on the pitch are suggesting more urgency may need to be applied to the manager situation.

I'm sure the people you refer to have given it a lot of thought and concluded a new man will transform a poor squad into the attacking unit they see that others can't.

If Dyche gets the boot (which seems very likely given the mood music here and elsewhere), I hope you're right because it is a monumental gamble given our circumstances.

Keeping him is the gamble.

Why isn't he playing Lindstrøm?
Why isn't he playing Branthwaite?
Why is Keane still playing?
Why is Harrison still in the team?
Why doesn't he play Beto alongside Calvert-Lewin?
Why doesn't he play Ndiaye in the number 10 role?

Yesterday, Lindstrøm played, Branthwaite played, Keane didn't play, Harrison didn't play, Beto was played alongside Calvert-Lewin and Ndiaye was tried in the Number 10 role. None of these decisions produced what we needed, a goal.

Fans, and to an extent Dyche, are clutching at straws for the next solution to all our problems. We are all going round in circles; an example being the question about Jack Harrison with Dyche first challenged about persisting with him and yesterday about not using him off the bench. The player's reputation seems to have been at least partially restored by not playing. ‘Twas ever thus. 

The squad is not at full strength. We are missing James Garner and Tim Iroegbunam as well as waiting for Broja, Chermiti and Coleman to be match-ready. All our options in central midfield were involved yesterday. 

Our situation is worrying but can be turned around even with the average players we have. But for the catastrophe of the last 8 minutes against Bournemouth and the mad 27 seconds at Southampton, we would be sitting comfortably in 13th on 15 points. I think that is roughly where we should be.

What we need is a catalyst on the pitch, perhaps a player who can run and play without fear, ignite his team mates and in turn the home fans whose silence has been deafening in recent matches.

Perhaps clutching at straws, I'm hoping Broja or Chermiti might be that player. Or perhaps we gain a surprise victory against the odds or have an Adrian Heath - Kevin Brock moment when a single incident turns a game and potentially a season.

We are at that stage when every problem with a team is heaped on the manager and when every solution involves replacing him. As is often written, the manager is the most expendable employee in the club. Getting rid of him is easy and in the short term shields everybody else in the club from criticism. 

It will destroy us fans.

They almost all end up going from having the confidence of being the man with the plan to being unable to see the bleeding obvious right in front of them.

But, he plan and philosophy can't be wrong, after all it's my plan and philosophy, therefore obviously the solution is more of he same pan and philosophy — applied harder, faster, stronger. QED. "Carry on Woany,"

[Fade in some stirring Wagner about mythological Norse death angels…]

"I love the smell of curry in the morning."

We're nearly into ABD – anybody but Dyche, Mrs Overall The Tea Lady territory now, Eh Mr Cooper?

Mike G @ 32; nothing to do with a seasoning Holland and Keane having 4 poor games on the run.

Jimmy C. They just blinked at Leicester.

He wasn't hired to play great football, or, indeed, average football. He is grinding out the points to take us to our new stadium as a Premier League club. Well done, that man!

I like it no more than anyone, but we will thank him some day. Watch the points he steals in the next weeks. Brentford, or Man City, makes no difference. He is what he is.

Might reflect his Burnley background, might reflect his mindset.

24 hours of knee jerking (mine's been going 10 to a dozen) a post with thought and perspective. Let's see where we are at Christmas: maybe new owners; maybe 5 or 6 more points on the board; maybe not… but let's wait and see until then.

I love your unbridled optimism. I'm just not quite sure what you base it on? I hope your words don't come back to haunt you.

This is ridiculous having to be getting into another relegation dogfight – and the way things are going, we could lose this one!

I can guarantee you, I will never thank Dyche for what he's done.

What actually has he done to be thanked???

Unless the takeover is announced in the coming weeks, I fully expect it to happen via the current regime with TFG pulling the strings behind the scenes.

I‘d be amazed if Dyche isn't shown the door as soon as the ink has dried and I‘m also pretty sure the new owners drew up a list ages ago as to who they wanted in the dugout.

Whether they get the man they want, we‘ll never find out as we don‘t know who they talked to. However, I‘m confident we‘ll have a new manager in January — whoever that may be.

Only hope it's not Moyes!

If, however, December is a struggle and TFG get control to find us us 17th, 18th, or 19th then they will likely remove Dyche and appoint either a stop-gap (like Ranieri at Roma) or a longer term manager if there's one that seems a good fit.

It could go either way.

Did anyone expect Wolves to score 4 or Ipswich to get a point against Man Utd? I know I didn't, even Southampton pushed Liverpool all the way. At 6 pm last night, we were 3 points above 18th; at 6 pm tonight, it's now 2 points.

Performances are getting worse, they're not improving. We've scored 10 goals, only Southampton have scored less.

We have Man Utd, Wolves, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City in the next month; on current form, we may get a point against Wolves, they beat us last season.

A bloke said to me last night that Wolves have only won twice so we should do them. I reminded him that we've only won twice – and they have scored twice as many goals.

It's Matchweek 12;, pre deduction at the same point last season we were 8 points above relegation and had scored more. We're going backwards.

I find myself reading comments by people who I genuinely respect and like their opinions, but now they are making me angry. I literally cannot understand anyone that defends Dyche. It's visceral, I can't help it. It makes me angry.

If Dyche is Chris Rock, I'm Will Smith. "Get my club's name outta your fuckin' mouth". That reaction.

Previously you might say "Moyes was perfect" and I could respond with "I disagree but respect your opinion."

With Dyche, to me there is no defending him. As far as I am concerned, there is no statistic that can't be countered.

Yes the team ha,d 27 shots yesterday, and no Dyche can't shoot for them. But some teams will have 3 shots and score 3 goals.

Dyche's teams statistically don't score many. You cannot blame the players for that. It's just a simple fact, he can't motivate the players to score, they are scared. I believe the same players would score more and win more under a different manager.

But that's really not the point. The point is Dyche brings genuine hatred and conflict — maybe it's just me, although I don't think it is, based on other people's comments.

I don't like how I feel about the club I have supported for 40 years — and this is the worst in those 40 years. I hope Dyche along with Thelwell get the boot on Day 1 of Friedkin. Unceremoniously. Brutally and without apology.

Sad really.

And not one of the usual circus of doers who can keep a team up?

"The players are playing with a lack of self-belief and confidence." — That excuse is half our problem.

This crap spouted out by players and Dyche about self-confidence is utter bullshit! We are talking about grown men, professional athletes, millionaires who sign one contract and they are made for life.

Who would be stupid enough to say, "Oh, I'm lacking in self-confidence" when they are on thousands a week? Not exactly a 'come and buy me' advert, is it?

Stop using that as an excuse for some really lazy couldn't give a fuck under-achievers, who, let's be honest don't support Everton, and would be off if someone was stupid enough to pay them more.

TFG have Sarri in a holding pattern for the Everton gig, waiting for the green light from the League. The Roma fans are a little upset with this as they wanted Sarri for themselves.

TFG wanted to appoint Mancini at Roma but Mancini wanted TFG to match his Saudi wedge so they turned to Ranieri as a stop gap. Mancini could sill go to Roma if they can meet in the middle.

It's an attitude that's been endemic in our club for at least 30 years, in plain sight, but us lot have chosen to largely accept it.

Think about Barcelona, a proud and successful club world-wide, where the ownership has almost always had fan input into its management. Then think about Espanyol, who play in the same city and, for now, the same league, in a comparatively new stadium.

Espanyol have a decades-long history as perennial non-achievers compared to their successful neighbours, quite unlike us, when we sometimes used to be great before that bastard Kenwright engulfed us.

Nobody in football rates Espanyol as credible trophy winners, and for decades now, nobody in football has seen us as credible contenders either.

Sack Dyche? Like he'll give a fuck – just like Koeman, Unsworth, Allardyce, Silva, Ferguson, Ancelotti, Benitez and Lampard didn't.

We've been ruined and, if there's anything positive to say, the new owners (whomever they may be) will need Lazarene qualities to restore us to where, with our history, we belong.

I've been hoping that was the case. I'd seen speculation about Sarri in Gazetto Dello Sport way back when Roma sacked De Rossi. But then they hired somebody else, who flopped, and I've seen nothing more since.

So I've been wishfully trying to work Sarri's name into every post I could!

I left school at 16 doing 10 years in the Royal Navy. After leaving, I decided to travel around America for a while… I got as far as Chicago and, 35 years later, I'm still here!

Or would you appoint him now so as to form an opinion on them and who might replace them, regardless of which party, player or club, makes the decision to part ways?

And would it really be the best policy for the DoF to make those decisions without consulting and agreeing with the new manager?

I know where I'd put my money.

They played like strangers who had never trained together. Zero movement, same routine at every corner and a failure to go 3 at the back to try and open the up. You felt as if the point was more important to him.

Intensely frustrating and infuriating. When Ashley Young feels he has to run forward to boot the ball off one of their players to get us a corner in their half, it tells you all you need to know about tactics, or the lack of them.

Sadly, no-one will make a decision until it's too late as I struggle to see where any points are coming from in December.

I can't wait for Freidkin to come, honestly. I disagree with some comments about Thelwell getting the boot immediately along with Dyche; Thelwell has done a largely decent job with nothing at his disposal. Thelwell is the only link to consistency and will hopefully have a plan… at least keep him a year.

If the rumours of Sarri are true (as mentioned by Jamie above), then that would be awesome. It will need time but with some investment and a plan for moving forwards, I believe this will get the fans getting behind everyone. Some of the contract situations aren't helping either, are they?

What the feck are you talking about mate.

It's not an excuse, it's a statement of fact.

Football like any other sport is a confidence game.

Does it look like a team brimming with confidence and self-belief to you?

Sometimes players play for an inspirational manager as much as anything else. Dyche fails to inspire on a number of fronts. That and tactical nous is the difference between Dyche and a good manager.

If you think he is getting the best out of these players, then you are kidding yourself.

Half the problem is allowing Dyche to control the narrative that he is getting all he can out of this squad and that we should just accept our position.

I spent a lot of time in Gloucestershire (Cheltenham) and Herefordshire. Nice part of the country.

I think we need this takeover to happen sooner rather than later, so we can move forward.

But can you still translate - 'Ow-bist thou-butt?

We have 10 outfield players each game who seem incapable of passing to one another and scoring a goal.

A goal that is 24 feet by 8 feet, you wouldn't think it was that difficult.

Somehow we need to put together a squad that is equal in ability to the very best teams at present, untill we can do that we are stuck in limbo, mid to bottom of the table.

We already have a defence minded coach who gets slaughtered for every decision.

Bringing in an older Italian defence minded coach is going to achieve what?

I would hazard a guess at very similar tactics, best case being he brings in better players to play Catenaccio. Wonder how long it would take the usual suspects to get the dinosaur shouts out.

It is very easy for me to have this view, I live minutes away from Goodison Park, I don’t have to get up early in the morning and spend plenty of hard earned money on coming to watch the ultra defensive and non football that is being offered up so I really and truly feel for the many fans who suffer this way so the only consolation is premier league football at the new stadium next season.

You mean "Dinosarri" calls.

These pages and others like them, are full of dissatisfaction about our current plight, and the so-called usual suspects is a growing band rather than a few outliers of the fan base.

The players may feel, like some of the supporters do, that, hey! we've seen this all before, we'll be okay, it's just a matter of riding out the storm and getting a few important wins here and there.

However, I've never been comfortable with the manager and the players feeling that they can aim for 17th and it's job done because, if we aim for the lowest possible position of safety, we may completely miss that target and end up in the Championship.

I'd prefer it if Dyche was to get a few wins between now and the end of the year, because that would be good for the club and its fans. However, the odds are stacked against him given the opposition that awaits and our lack of goal-scoring prowess, plus his almost pathological need to favour defending over attacking.

I am also concerned and have been since the start of the season, that having gained 48 actual points last term, we are somehow obliged to think that putting circa 12 points less on the board this time round is to be seen as an achievement. There's lowering the expectations of supporters and then there's taking the mick.

When Ancelotti signed, he was called an “Italian Dinosaur” by Ian before his first game in charge.

2 Champions League, 2 La Ligas and 1 Cope Del Rey later, we now know that it is Everton that is the land that time forgot.

Sarri would be a massive step up in quality compared to the last 8 years with the exception of Carlo, and let's not delude ourselves. We'd be very lucky to get him.

Many great players played at Turf Moor from the likes of Ronaldo, Drogba and so many more during his years there. Surely, his mind would have been thinking, how could I expand my game and coaching if I only had a bit more money?

Clearly not, he gets a few new players with middling attacking flair and they are played out of position or for the last 10 minutes! He stays ridiculously loyal and dependent on a want away Calvert-Lewin, who has never had any support in his ploughing rut up front.

Perhaps Calvert-Lewin is thinking back to the times when he was supported up front y Rodriguez etc under Ancelotti and wondering if Eddie Howe et al might perceive him as a racehorse and not a work ass!

After all the troubles last season, things for a short time looked better than the points we were deducted by the corrupt Premier League. Friedkins, there is no time to lose!

If we are to greet life at the new stadium with Premier League opposition, then something has to be done ASAP, especially with our December fixtures! Dyche does not seem to have the brain or guts to adopt a new style. In my mind, he has relegated himself to Sam Alladyce #2!

Apologies again and for my wearisome ramblings.

Can ToffeeWeb run a poll to get fan opinions right now (sack him ASAP, keep til end of season, give him a chance in the new stadium)?

I think I've said this on here before but, imagine if he's put in charge of a club pushing for a Champions League spot (yes, I know that's a stretch of the imagination), does anyone think he'd play any different? He wouldn't have a fecking clue, defend, defend, defend...

Hopefully he'll be put out "on the grass" soon…

Under those circumstances, Dyche will know he needs results and points. We will then see how Dyche reacts in terms of team selection and tactics and it's in the ‘lap of the gods' if he ‘falls on his sword' or survives?

Besides the fixture list, the only real change I think we're seeing now is that the last drop of confidence has finally left the team.

For the life of me, I could never understand the support he got. That included constant assertions that he was a miracle worker, that he said it like it was, and that he was a pragmatist. He was never any of those things.

My biggest fear is that at some point when we win some games he'll (yet again) be credited with that success. No — he is a hindrance. We could always have done better than the most limited, negative and downright weird bloke that I've seen manage our club (and that's pretty stiff competition).

The players must roll their eyes when David Brent enters the room.

Only 10% think he is doing his best under difficult circumstances.

75% think he is hanging by a thread. Personally, I would make it a rope.

We give them far too many excuses when they fail, and I'm sick of the lot of them, Dyche included.

Lack of confidence? Do me a favour. Halfe their wages if they under-perform…, they will soon show how confident they are.

I still plan on strolling into your restaurant on game day sometime. I planned to surprise you back in August when I was supposed to be in town for my 50th high school reunion, but the trip got cancelled.

We'll meet someday.

But... Rob #66, Sarri ain't catenaccio by any means. He certainly focuses on defensive execution and defending set pieces, but his Serie A teams played a quick-striking attack game featuring speedy wingers and lots of goals. Pep is one of those influenced by Sarri-ball.

Yeah, he's long in the tooth at 65, smokes like a chimney and occasionally makes improper remarks, so he's a real throwback, but this is the guy to transform Everton's playing style if that's what the new owners want to do.

It feels like either of them would be a perfect manager for us, do a great job and make us all a lot happier.How do I know? I don't. I just feel it and I'm never wrong.

Sarri is a cerebral, unclear communicator wedded to a rigid style of possession play, which would take years to get right, but everyone would already have had enough of him by then.

Bielsa, on the other hand, we had our moment with him and we let it slip, that might have been revolutionary – although most likely he would've quit after 4 months of dealing with such an unserious football club.

Fair enough, I certainly like your idea of halving the wages for under-performers.

We are also in agreement about being sick of the lot of them.

I do believe though that Dyche, by consistently spouting the belief that we are nothing but relegation battlers, instils such a low bar that it provides an excuse to the players sometimes.

Either way, a clear out of all of them with new owners would be a blessing. Not fit to wear the royal blue.

I find it strange that you are jumping on Ian about his views on Ancelottii. I was one of the biggest critics of the Italian and go back to what I said about his appointment and nothing what's happened since has surprised anyone.

I did an article where the majority felt he should and would qualify for Europe the next season. One poster on here was adamant. When we were top he predicted a title challenge. Then it was top four. Then it was top six. Even after this he still pines for him and criticises anyone who dares to offer an adverse opinion.

Ancelottii had a top 8 squad and finished 10th in one of the most calamitous fall from grace we have witnessed. David Moyes had a comparable squad in 6th and we ended up sandwiched in between 2 championship squads one of whose standout player was a certain Jack Harrison who gets derided on here for being Championship at best.The hilarious thing is that supporters of Dyche constantly complain about how our players are average and we have no money to spend yet Ancelottii had a great squad and had a net spend of £63:million, one of our highest ever with unparalleled wages, of which his only task was to sort out the midfield, where he failed miserably. Indeed the player he chose was bought for £21million, paid £100k a week, stunk the place out before taking the full £21 million hit shortly after as no-one else was foolish enough to pay for him

I am sure Ian likes most other critics of Ancelottii is fully aware of his Champions League pedigree and he is undoubtedly the greatest ever manager in that competition. His tactical acumen surprises no one and in one off games you give him the best players and he knows what is required to win elite level matches

However you praise him for winning 2 La Ligas. Look closely and you will see his deficiencies which have blighted his career. He has never won a league title which wasn't a penalty kick. At Real in his first season Barca had had a fire sale of all their best players including Messi and Neymar. That team managed by Koeman is considered among the worst in their history. Xavi comes in with a poor squad and somehow Ancelottii contrives to get a team who is 1-8 with the bookies to lose their crown. In Xavi's 2nd season they had a horrendous injury situation of what was already a threadbare squad languishing between 4th and mid table for the first half of the season. In the 2nd half they recovered but any hopes of the title were gone. Hansi Flick has come in with only Danny Olmo as a significant signing and already he has schooled Ancelottii despite Real Madrid being 1-6 favourites at the start of the season. If he doesn't win the title then 2 titles in 4 years with Barcelona being the weakest in their entire history is nothing short embarrassing for Ancelottii.

My objections to Ancelottii at Everton was that we needed a manager to improve players (only Calvert Lewin did so), that he would bring players here for instant success which Everton can't afford to do unless it actually equates to instant success (it didn't).We needed a manager to the build and grow with the club something unsuited to Ancelottti's skillset.

Steve you are berating Dyche for not having Everton finish above 12th with this squad but championing Ancelottii for finishing 10 th with players of the calibre of Pickford, Digne,Coleman,Mina, Rodriguez, Siggy, Richarlison and a peak Calvert Lewin.

Tony Abrahams made the point that going a man down baffled us. Dyche plays underdog football and that type of football requires a team of workers. To me, that explains his often bewildering team selection and substitutions. I believe he will grind out enough points to keep safety highly likely.

I haven't seen anyone here enjoying his methods; tolerating them is more like it.

I would not denigrate Ancelotti's achievements elsewhere. They are Fantastic, but I agree with you about the job he did here. for me, He was by far and away the biggest disappointment of all our managers. Talk about taking the piss.

For 12m a year + 3m for his rellies- not to mention his mates. He did nothing but take the piss out of Evertonians. He must have thought we were all born yesterday when he told us Mason Holgate was a future Everton captain and rewarded him for a couple of semi decent performances with a FIVE year contract worth over 17.5m.

He didnt even want Doucourie, but he was soon blowing smoke up blue arses again telling us we had a "fantastic box-to-box midielder" - Especially when his own signings didnt fancy playing - "it was a great surprise to find we had this type of player. Without him we have much more problems. He is one of the most important players we have" - Yeah right Carlo.

Despite a flying start with the best group of players we have had in years. He soon reverted back to surrendering possession at home to inferior teams and lumping it up to DCL - Dycheball. Years before Sean even got here.

When challenged about the abject cautious football he had reverted back to, He famously replied - "I'm not a magician"... Piss taking bastard.

He was throwing his players under a bus long before Dyche was even asked the question.

I cringe when I hear Evertonians boast about his achievements elsewhere. What next ? are we going to start chanting about Ashley Youngs medals ? Carlo must have thought all his Birthdays had come at once when the call came from Madrid offering to place the silver spoon back in his mouth.

A serial winner yes; But on the day o reckoning when the worst EVERTON manager of all time is being voted for. I would hope the Millions he spent on bringing his family and his mates here. The cowardly football he reverted to. The way he crept off into the night without a backward glance at the ship he had left sinking and above all; The condescending piss taking nonsense he spouted about players He/We knew to be ordinary, Have all been written down and will be used as evidence against him.

Like every other recent manager, he was told there would be investment available for the squad and discovered it was untrue. I don’t blame him the slightest for making the move he did.

It was also not a strong Real Madrid squad he took over, as the club posted €300million in COVID-19 pandemic-related losses at the end of his first season in charge and were also investing heavily in the Bernabeu renovation. Despite the finances, he has improved it significantly.

Here is my prediction - Ancelotti will win La Liga again this season and it won’t be based on a penalty kick.

Hope all is well and let’s see what happens when TFG take over next month. I expect big changes at all levels of the club, and hopefully some professionalism in how it is run.

We have to look to Europe for our next manager. I am not sure about The Friedkin Group either — just look at Roma.

We all have our opinions of which were the worst Everton managers but I think it is insane to not recognize how Ancelotti was shafted by Dumb and Dumber who promised so much but failed to deliver.

Calvert-Lewin had the most productive spell of his career and we were leading the league at Xmas, yes leading the Premier League. When could you even contemplate that since?

Carlo won 46.3% of his games, the 3rd highest percentage of all time for a full-time Everton manager, and the highest since Kendall's first tour.

We led the league into October and beat Liverpool at Anfield. And with James out there, we were a hell of a lot of fun to watch.

I loved having Carlo here. Especially in light of the scumbag who followed him.

Or, alternatively, Dyche as good as Carlo? That's a really difficult one!

I thought towards the end of Carlo's reign, we were playing just as badly as we are now. Difference is we won a lot of games away that season.

Early on, we were entertaining but it faded fairly soon, if my memory serves me right.

You are of course entitled to your opinion but lumping Carlo in one of the worst managers we've had bucket is quite a stretch!

Can you tell me where you have the evidence Ancelotti earned £12M a year?

I'd be interested to know.

Carlo Ancelotti enjoyed a winning start as Everton manager with an 80th-minute Dominic Calvert-Lewin header earning a 1-0 Premier League win over Burnley at Goodison Park on Thursday.

Burnley had been typically resilient in defence, while posing few questions of Everton, and it took a high-quality finish to separate the sides. After Burnley winger Dwight McNeil was robbed by Gylfi Sigurdsson, Djibril Sidibe whipped in a cross from the right which Calvert-Lewin met with a superb angled diving header which flew in off the inside of the far post.

Italian Ancelotti, a Champions League winner with AC Milan and Real Madrid was appointed by Everton on Saturday to replace the sacked Marco Silva. "Today, for me, was really special. The reception was fantastic here at Goodison Park. The atmosphere of the Premier League does not change. It was a special day, absolutely," said Ancelotti, who was sacked by Serie A club Napoli this month. "We deserved to win. We were a little bit slow from the back in the first half - not so efficient on the counter attack. In the end, the performance was good. Not the top, but enough," he said.

Burnley boss Sean Dyche was left to reflect on 20-year-old winger McNeil's sloppy error. "We never really looked in too much trouble and then we wanted to progress in the second half. It was a giveaway in the second half and they nicked it," he said. "It was a poor mistake, Dwight was trying to play inside football and it was not on. He is a fantastic footballer and he will learn".

Premier League record with Everton:
Pl W D L GF GA Pts
Carlo Ancelotti 58 25 14 19 71 75 89
Sean Dyche 68 20 20 28 69 97 80

I don't know if Ancelotti was paid £12M but he certainly never earned it or the alleged £3M bonus he got months after he left the club.

I wouldn't be surprised if he made a few pound on his house insurance when his abode was screwed in Crosby either!

Yet given the appalling, utterly disgraceful, manner of mismanagement over the past 10 years (at the very least), I was happy for the pragmatism and work ethic Dyche brought.

It was never a good marriage, but we both got what we needed at the time (needed, not wanted). But this season started badly with a dreadful set of displays pre-season and equally poor first month or two.

He has never and will never recover; I would go so far in saying that Dyche lost any credibility with me before the actual season started: we were woeful, no structure, no tactics, poor fitness and bad management of games.

So, 12 games in, we have a situation Sean Dyche is incapable of fixing. In fact, his doubling down on players, tactics and game management has gone beyond pragmatism or stubborness, it's almost irrational.

It does not matter who plays were, for the analogy of deck chairs on the Titanic is apt, it is the utter futility of persistence with something in the hope it will eventually come right.

In a normal time, managers are sacked for far less, but our circumstances mean we are hamstrung till the new ownership is finalized. It has given Dyche opportunity and breathing space to get it right; he hasn't… and all the signs are he won't.

I fear for our club this season far more than any other, for no-one is stepping up to the mark on the pitch, no youth is given a chance, there is no quality in our play, no game changers, they have been sold.

I do not buy into the mantra that he is a good manager, nor that he will turn it around. I think his time is done and we need a step change of impetus and direction now. Without it, I really do think we will be in serious trouble.

Of course people will point and pray that Broja will deliver, that TFG will spend big money in January, that inexplicably it will suddenly all click. I still believe in Santa Claus...

When a player's time is done, it's done; treasure the memories and pass the baton. We have too many holding on to the baton of delusion believing they are still good enough – no matter how good they once were… no matter how good a person they are – time kills the ability to deliver.

Coleman, Young, Gueye, Tarkowski, Keane, Doucoure, that's 6 first teamers, all way past their best. Experience can carry you only so far against quality and youth. Not one of the above should be a first-team regular now, not one.

We are where we are, things have to change, the blend of youth and experience has to change, trust in younger players has to come.

Alas, I don't trust Dyche to do it... hence my call for change.

Hopefully by the time we catch up, we have new owners, new manager and we're half-way up the league at least! But why think about January, lol.

Disagreement over past players or managers is done with the benefit of hindsight, criticism of the current lot comes from fear! Why do we invest so much of our lives in Everton?

Good post as usual – many fans will agree with you. I agree with a lot of it, but the squad is undeniably poor as is the bench at the moment which is why Dyche's choice of subs is limited at the moment.

We have Garner and Iroegbunam to come and boost the midfield and also to swap at the hour mark, same with two strikers nearly fit for business. The full-back positions are very limited and Dyche has had to make do with what we have there.

I hope these players coming in and two or three more in January will help Dyche and us fans to breathe more easily as the season carries on.

So I hope you are wrong this time and Everton can stay in the Premier League and then we can look at the manager's position.

Best wishes, Christine, these performances are doing your ticker no good and that snidey Liverpudlian doctor you've got doesn't help either!

Several millions later, after the honeymoon period evaporated, we found out. He tucked us up well and truly but in a marvelously charming way.

Many have argued that the 2022 Champions League victory was the luckiest in history having won four consecutive rounds by the skin of their teeth. Not me, I feel you earn that rub of the green. For example when City only had to keep the ball for 30 seconds to qualify and knock Real out I believe the substitutions Ancelottii made were a big factor in the pressure applied to the Mancs to uncharacteristically implode, panicking unnecessarily by kicking the ball into touch when time to play. I wish our current incumbent had a bit of Ancelottti's nous.

Indeed the following season when it got to the semi final stage Real were 2 to 1 after drawing Man City and I was confident, with both Madrid's and Ancelottiis pedigree in the competition and Guardiolas penchant for overcomplicating things as he did against Chelsea and Inter, that this was a great bet.

That's why I unreservedly argue that Ancelottii is the greatest manager in that competition and felt he had already established that prior to joining Everton.

However his league record tells a different story. When managing a super power domestically (mostly having the best squad in a one or two horse race) he has won 6 titles in 20 years consisting of AC Milan, Juventus, Madrid, Chelsea, Bayern Munich,and PSG which is 3 out of every 10. Contrast this to a manager like Guardiola who has 12 titles in 15 years when managing teams of a similar profile which equates to 8 out of every 10.

One is a master strategist and chess player, the other is a master creator and motivator.

Steve I am not surprised by your views but supporters of Ancelottii, yourself included, almost speak with 'I told you so' type of mentality. Believe it or not despite my apprehension and misgivings there was no one more desperate than me to hear thousands of 'I told you so's' on this site had he achieved his objective.

I do agree with you that if Ancelottii wins the la liga title this year it won't be a penalty kick. Madrid no doubt have the far superior squad but in Flick he has a serious competitor. I hope your prediction is wrong, not for my pride, more for my wallet.

Mike G the problem with looking at stats like yours is that they are not really a direct comparison. There is roughly a ten percent sway in most Everton managerial records. The majority of managers have fallen on their sword after a serious of poor results. Ancelottii didn't succumb to this and so his stats are unreflective however had he continued in his latter form going into the following season then no doubt he would have not measured up so favourably. If you take a direct comparison of Ancelottti's first 18 months with Martinez, then Ancelottti doesn't stack up.

Moreover comparing Koeman, Allardyce and Ancelottii to Benitez, Lampard, Dyche regimes is unreflective of actual performance considering the financial differentials. For example Benitez ( a manager I was vehemently opposed to for numerous reasons) had arguably the worst conditions of any manager yet Ancelottii's record without Dominic Calvert Lewin in the side was roughly one point per game despite the abundance of talent at his disposal. When Benitez had Calvert Lewin in the side his points total was a lot more favourable.

You claim it was fun to watch, but I have to ask; Is that a joke ? Sure there were brief spells when watching James strutting his stuff was a joy, but fun to watch ?...Really ?...Really ? I would suggest you look at the reality.

By the time chrimbo came around other coaches where cottoning on to the predictability of our anti football. Look at our home form in the new year when the onus was on us to win ?

West Ham NIL-1

Newcastle NIL-2

Fulham NIL-2

City 1-3

Burnley (Dyches Burnley) 1-2

Villa - 1-2

Sheffield United -NIL-1

With the exception of City. These were all really poor teams and we were going entire games without mustering a single shot - Sound familiar ?

Draws against Leicester, Palace and Spurs, salvaged a miserly three points from what looked like (given the talent we had) Ten winnable games. When questioned about his tactics. He simply threw his players under the bus.

We shouldnt be claiming he was unlucky not to finish with European football. We should be asking how on earth he failed...With THAT squad !

Its easy to set the bar low. Scoff and make comparisons to Dyche because he has proven time and again that he can manage elite players. But we are talking about his time here. Was he any better than Dyche when he had to get down in the mud and scrap ? He was every bit as cautious that's or sure.

Was the 59 points he won with some very good players (including one world class) a better achievement than the 48 points Dyche picked up with a disjointed bunch of misfits. A board that had abandoned ship and the full weight of a corrupt League making the pressure almost unbearable? I say No.

I am happy to acknowledge Ancelotti as being one of the greatest man managers of superstar ego the game has seen, but I wont be blinded by stardust. Nor will I re-write history to make it look as if he did a good job or us. I remember those brain numbing, shot shy home games listed above all too well.

As an Everton manager. He was a cop-out merchant. Without superstars to win games for him he didnt trust himself to outsmart journeymen coaches with journeymen players.

The greatest of disappointments.

I guess we all see the game differently, but I just wish we had been run better financially so we could have enjoyed the benefits of Ancelotti's management.

And he's still an Evertonian unlike the FSW, who some on here, grudgingly, accepted.

Only on TW.

Even if we had been run better financially, Carlo would still have been off after one season once Real Madrid came calling.

However, that first half a dozen games of the season I really thought we'd turned a corner as a club. Then as you say, we got found out.

James was wonderful in those games and its a travesty he wasn't enjoyed by the crowd, he would have loved it.

That assessment of Carlo Ancelloti during his Everton tenure is exactly how I saw it Colin, so it astounds me when I read he has the third highest percentage win rate, out of any Everton manager, ever.

The start of his only full season was great to watch, and we got some great results that season. I just wish that Carlo, would have kept playing his four central defenders across the back four, getting protected by a five man midfield for a lot longer, because every single time he played a narrow four man midfield, Everton got footballed off the pitch by most of the worst teams in the league that season.

My hope is that TFG will bring in a manager that will stir us and the players right up. Bielsa would have been great but we missed the boat there. Someone in his mould, a little bit crazy or daring, is what we need.

There is a very obvious snobbery involved here. Slag Dyche of for "Dycheball" and you can expect a hearty round of hear hears. But Slag Carlo off for the endless hours of awful shite he forced us to endure and you get people who completely miss the point throwing their arms up in outrage screaming "How dare you ! He's the greatest manager of all time !!!!!!"

I can respect what Ancelotti has achieved, Its impossible not to, but that doesnt mean he wasnt a complete waste of time and money as an Everton manager. Sure he gave us glimpses, but nothing on a par with the 5-1 victory at Brighton -The best football we've played in years.

Shite is shite. No matter who serves it up and Carlo's shite was every bit as ugly as Seans and Rafa's...and Franks. Please stop trying to make him the exception. As modern day Everton managers go. He was very much the rule.

Jay

I see you are trying to claim superior knowledge by telling me and Conor that "Experts" would think we were insane, but you need to look at the results above and you need to also consider those results were not confined to the second half of the season. Leeds also shut us out completely at Goodison to win. So did West Ham. Man united Murdered us.

Thats thirteen homes games listed where the onus was on us to try to win, but we could hardly muster an attempt on goal. It was every bit as bad as what we are watching now. Probably worse.

Being top of the league in October after a handful of games counts for less than nothing.

To turn your point around. If you stood in front of a group of Expert Evertonians and told them Carlo was an all time great Everton manager. They would probably be too polite to call you insane.