Josh Wander of 777 Partners indicted on $500M fraud charges

Moshiri (and / or his backers) would have sold us to this bunch. We'd be sunk. Only the Premier League ‘financially fit and proper' rules prevented this happening.

We also allowed them to finance our operations for several months before TFG quickly cleared this debt. I hope we are well clear of any linkage to this bunch of crooks.

Not words I ever thought I'd be reading on ToffeeWeb... but perverse as it is... you're not wrong.

There was another interested party who couldn't believe their offer had not been taken while 777's was...

If the league hadn't stopped Moshiri, we'd be staring down the barrel of administration right now.

If this had been an expose of Blue Bill... ToffeeWeb would have made the BBC.

Thanks, Mike Gaynes, BTW.

There was no way they were going to pass the fit and proper person test, which really means that the only thing that Masters and the Premier League were doing was their job.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with thanking Dan Friedkin (it would be nice to see him at Bramley-Moore Dock, so a lot of Evertonians could thank him personally) but there were also a few other interested parties and 777 Partners had absolutely no chance of purchasing Everton, because of what was already in the public domain, about them being conmen.

If only Moshiri had listened to that "common knowledge"?

Tell us what difference it was ever going to make to Everton or Moshiri when there was no way whatsoever that 777 Partners were ever going to pass the fit and proper person test?

If Moshiri wasn't fixated to sell us out to "Del boy" 777 and had engaged positively with TFG 12 to 18 months before... we might today perhaps be in a better space?

We have improved on the TFG watch.

We could not have improved further if TFG had come in earlier?

My own view was that, whilst it might have looked to the outside world like Moshiri was fixated on selling to 777 Partners, with the evidence that was already in the public domain, then anyone with an ounce of intelligence already knew that there was absolutely no way that 777 Partners were ever going to pass the Premier League's fit and proper persons test, which meant a sale to 777 Partners was actually going to be impossible.

That's how I saw it at the time and, if anything, it looked like Moshiri was actually using 777 Partners because I'm sure they gave him the money to pay a couple of loans; otherwise, the club might have ended up in administration.

I think you're giving Moshiri a lot more credit than he deserves. Loan sharks ain't a good look anytime.

It's general knowledge that TFG walked away from a deal to buy Everton and then came back in to get the club on their terms.

Rooting for 777 Partners

I am less confident than you (and your dad) that the Premier League would have denied 777 Partners given that, despite their well-known dodgy doings, they had previously been granted clearance to buy clubs in Germany, Italy and Belgium. Is the Bundesliga less strict than the Premier League?

Moshiri really wanted their money and I am not convinced the sale wouldn't have gone through. You may be right that he used 777's eagerness to get those loans, but it's equally possible they were using him.

Brendan, Moshiri's first chance to sell to TFG was May 2024, when they first showed their interest. Remember that not only 777 but MSP Sports Capital (the Yanks Moorad and Najafi), and the local guys Downing and Bell, were potential buyers at that time.

In July 2024, TFG pulled out, reportedly because of concerns over the 777 loans, but also perhaps as a tactic. I predicted here then that they'd be back to the table, because they'd used the same tactic to buy Roma, and sure enough they returned in September with a new offer when Moshiri was more desperate.

So the delay in TFG's takeover was really only about 3 months, and I don't think it slowed our improvement at all -- because the Friedkins were committed to keeping Dyche as manager. They didn't finally sack him until he essentially forced them to.

I just stated to Brendan that it wasn't really an expose after what I thought was a bit of a ridiculous post when he wrote that ToffeeWeb would have made the BBC if this had anything to do with Blue Bill.

The same Brendan who says we could have been doing a lot better if Moshiri would have engaged with TFG earlier and gives a time frame of 12/18 months.

He probably doesn't even understand the irony when it's clear that the man he defends to the hilt held Everton back for many, many years -- especially now he's moved onto loan sharks.

They delayed the sale on financial reasons, if I recall correctly, over paying off debt to the dancing man? (Can't remember his name or company.)

I'll withdraw my "expose" claim and accept Mike's description of the development as "big news".

Does that satisfy the pedant in you?

The Bundesliga still employs the 51%-49% ownership rule, meaning the majority shareholder cannot own the club outright. That's my take on it.

Obviously owning half the club gives them an advantage as they only need sway a few votes, but it gives the supporters a say and degree of control.

Here's an English extract from a Bundesliga explanation.

"The German spectator traditionally has close ties with his club," Borussia Dortmund CEO Hans-Joachim Watzke said in 2016. "And if he gets the feeling that he's no longer regarded as a fan but instead as a customer, we'll have a problem."

The 50+1 rule guards against this. The name of the rule refers to the need for members of a club to hold 50%, plus one more vote, of voting rights -- ie, a majority. In short, it means that clubs -- and, by extension, the fans -- have the ultimate say in how they are run, not an outside influence or investor.

Under German Football League (DFL) rules, football clubs will not be allowed to play in the Bundesliga (or second division) if outside investors have the greatest say.

In essence, this means that private or commercial investors cannot take over clubs and potentially push through measures that prioritise profit over the wishes of supporters. The ruling simultaneously protects against reckless owners and safeguards the democratic customs of German clubs.

It might suit you better to read the link by Kieran @13 (read the date 28 February 2024). There is a full column on that link, so there was no need for your snide remark @8.

You did say: “Talking about dodging a bullet, we dodged a nuke” when in fact we were never in danger of either of them.

You did elaborate the way TFG worked and you were confident they would come back in with another bid. It looks like they were also confident, by walking away, that they would have another chance of buying Everton FC.

If you knew how dodgy 777 Partners were, then you can certainly bet that TFG knew a lot more than you did about them.

I know Dave and Tony are convinced they had no chance of getting control of the club but, for me, Moshiri was so desperate to sell the club, he would have gladly let 777 Partners take his troubles away.

The stories about 777 Partners had been circulating before Moshiri got involved with them, so in my view, we have dodged a bullet.

My comment @8 was "snide"?

As Tom Petty sang: 'Even the losers, get lucky sometimes'.

On an objective basis, Moshiri flies in from nowhere, sinks nearly a billion quid into a club in L4 cos he wants us to have a spanking new stadium, and once it's built, he disappears in a puff of smoke. None of it makes sense.

I suspect we are just one of those lucky Top 20 clubs that the powers that be have decided are to form the Premier League, and so we needed a new ground, and so one was provided.

Seriously there was no need for it and at best it was sarcastic.

I was going off the example of lowly Morecombe, who ended up in a lot of financial difficulties because of a bad owner. A young entrepreneur was trying to buy them, and apparently lent them some money to pay off some outstanding debts.

The EFL, never stopped this from happening and they never chased this kid away either. They just waited for him to prove that he could pass the fit and proper person test, and this is something he could never get around to doing.

The Premier League took a lot of stick from Evertonians when they sanctioned our club with two separate points deductions, so this is another reason why I believe they would have definitely fine-tooth combed everything before signing off on such a deal.

I'm here to debate and also to hopefully be educated, Brenda, (sometimes ToffeeWeb also used to have some funny humour) but sometimes I have a problem when I see people write things I believe are false, and then try and use their own kind of disinformation, which insinuates that Bill Kenwright was actually hard done by?

Brendan is okay, Dave, I'm used to him and his non-answers when I ask him to elaborate.

Now that's fecking snide...

No way Brendan!

All Tony is saying is “Brendan is okay, I like him despite the way he responds”!

Brian: Who would have thought that we would actually be thanking Masters and the Premier League for not allowing 777 Partners to proceed with their bid.

Their 'bid' was not stopped by the Masters and the Premier League. The Premier League said they were "minded to approve" the takeover provided a series of financial tests were met before the deadline when the agreement between 777 Partners and Moshiri expired. They failed to meet those tests as the deadline passed.

The effect was the same but there's an important nuance there, that reflects back to what Mike says @14.

Brendan, I can't work out if you're just throwing in funnies or really trying to wind up Tony and Dave? Probably both... but it's really not helping!

ToffeeWeb is changing; there seems to be a lot of pointless arguments and a lot more anger in the air, with the biggest disappointment being that there seems to be a lot less discussion and a lot more people either taking offence or just looking to score some cheap points.

Hopefully it changes, and people can start asking why? Sometimes it's better to ask why, rather than to just brush somebody off, especially because their answer might even help to educate us.

Get working on your answers, Brendan!

I honestly don't think ToffeeWeb has "changed" per se because the chat is always evolving. Remember when he had Jay from Brazil writing long essays in response to every post? We had the hilarious era of Eugene and John Daly with their comedy posts. We had the hotly contested era of was Carlo a "charlatan/acolytes etc."

Every so often new folks come along and long timers move on but...

But the concern was that the same thing happened with Melbourne Victory in Australia. The regulators wouldn't approve them as they kept playing games and not proving funds. But all the while they lent more and more money to the club with the result the Aussie FA eventually approved them as they had become de facto owners by encumbering the club with so much debt.

I honestly think that was their strategy with Everton too. But their whole Ponzi scheme was unravelling so they were having a tough time coughing up those various £20M loans they agreed to send our way.

If they had kept it going a bit longer, I don't know what would have happened. I'd like to think like you that Masters would have blocked them but they snowed airline regulators in Canada and Australia despite massive red flags... so who knows!

You read what I said and you understood it. Bravo!

You question how I can say Masters and the Premier League stopped the takeover, and suggest because they said they were "minded to approve" the deal if 777 Partners met certain criteria, which means that they did stop 777 Partners getting control.

Otherwise, if they didn't stop them, who did.

Michael #29, thank you for that clarification re the league.

Dave #20, absolutely spot on. TFG certainly knew all about 777. Seems like lots of people did -- you may remember published reports that our other suitor MSP, for whom I have massive respect, had had previous interaction with 777 and was unwilling to work with them ever again. (I actually knew nothing about them until reading those articles.) You and Tony may well be right that we were in no danger of a 777 takeover, but I have less faith in the Premier League. 777's reputation had preceded them to Germany and Italy as well, and they were still granted approval.

Danny #18, my question was more about the 'financially fit and proper' confirmation than the ownership structure. I was just pointing out that the Bundesliga had found 777 to be sufficiently fit and proper to buy Herta Berlin, and therefore we couldn't assume that the Premier League wouldn't have. It does seem likely the assessment process is different because of the protections in Germany against "reckless owners" -- which 777 certainly were.

I still have a hunch that the arrival, and then return, of Dan Friedkin may have prevented a disaster in the form of Josh Wander. But right or wrong, I'm a happy camper.

However, to me there's also less overt hostility than in previous eras dominated by certain attack trolls whose apparent objective was to actually drive people out. You know of whom I speak.

Like the Blues, TW is about to move to a new venue. I'll be interested to see if the tone changes then.

And Yes, Dennis, that hat was a giveaway if ever there was!

I'm not sure I really trust TFG that much though, and certainly the non-appearance of the Friedkins themselves suggests we are just an ‘opportunity' for them with no emotional buy-in. Thinking a few years down the road and hopefully to a point where we are successful, or TFG are just bored, how safe can we feel about another set of incoming owners? 777 Partners aren't the only dodgy ones out there. Look at Sheffield Wednesday.

Oh, and it's true, ToffeeWeb did become overly negative with a group of grumpy old points scorers taking personal aim at fellow contributors. So much so that I have rarely bothered contributing in the last few years. Has it changed? Time will tell, although some of the spats on this thread suggest there may be some way to go.

TFG won't be able to help themselves and they'll become Evertonians regardless of whether they intend to do so.

As I said, it's a point of nuance rather than anything else but Mike @14 made a good point that the Premier League had approved plenty of other dubious parties, so why would they block 777 Partners?

And my point @29 was, in the simplest terms, they didn't.

The Premier League never rejected 777 Partners under the Directors Test; they never said, "Sorry, Josh, but the deal is off. It ain't neva gona happen."

Instead, they imposed a set of criteria that had to be met before a certain date -- that date being the expiry of the preliminary agreement between 777 Partners and Moshiri for exclusive rights to negotiate the takeover of Everton FC.

The date passed, the criteria were not met, the agreement expired, the 777 Partners bid died the death.

But technically it was not stopped by Masters and the Premier League. The result was the same as if they had stopped it... but they did not stop it. So we ironically have no need to thank them.

I'm just glad that the Premier League decided to use the "innocent until proven guilty" method because nearly everyone could already see that they were absolute conmen.

Some quoted the Auditors of the official Accounts in their dire warnings, which I took to be them covering their arses just in case it really did go tits up.

Regarding those who dropped out, I understand Christine has decided to leave because she said so. Has Rob stated the same?

To be honest, I don't think Brian Williams has posted for quite a while and I asked him, on here, to post to let us know how he was doing, but he hasn't replied so I worry about what has happened to him — Brian is a long-term cancer patient. I sincerely hope he is okay.

Pretty sure she posted something within the last couple of days.

Yes, she wrote a post last Saturday I think then expanded on that post as to why she felt she had decided to leave ToffeeWeb. I hope she will return — but I don't think many on here doubt how deeply she feels about the team she has supported since she was first taken to see the Blues by her uncle.

Christine never saw Everton through blue-tinted glasses but with very realistic points of view -- although her love for Everton was always was very, very clear.

Just found it. I had followed that thread for a bit but dropped out before Christine's final posts. Hopefully it's "au revoir" rather than "goodbye".

TFG plus others were trying to purchase Everton, and although I think TFG have got the club relatively cheaply (Is a lot of the debt still leveraged onto the club?), I wonder how much cheaper the price would have been if Moshiri never got those loans to keep the stadium build moving forward?

It's gone, it's all water under the bridge, but I was hearing that one of the Friedkin family members was at a recent game and was apparently very disappointed with the layout of the executive boxes and was vowing to make big changes.

Possibly just another rumour, and now the stadium is complete, my only real concern is what happens out on the pitch... and I don't mean the rat that was scurrying across the turf during the Palace game.

He no longer posts on the site. As far as I know, Rob has decided the same.

Why didn't Kenwright and Moshiri do their own due diligence before even engaging with these charlatans?

No club should have to rely on Masters and the Premier League to suggest whether some parties are worthy buyers or not.

Thanks, very good news for me that.

Next time you talk to him tell him I hope he rings that bell in time to really celebrate Christmas!

Brendan (47), Yes, let's hope it is “au revoir and not goodbye”!