The beginning of last month marked the one-year anniversary of Carlo Ancelotti’s decision to up sticks and return to Real Madrid, thereby leaving Everton with another managerial vacancy and Farhad Moshiri with another difficult decision to make in terms of who should take this team forward. For the Blues, it also marked the end of a veritable annus horribilis.
Relief consumed the fanbase after the cathartic victory over Crystal Palace at Goodison Park in May that assured safety with a game to spare and the post mortem on 2021-22 among fans was brief — emotionally, it was a gruelling campaign that most have just wanted to consign to history; plenty of angst and column inches were devoted to the club’s problems throughout the season.
Richarlison's vital contributions, particularly down the home stretch of the season, made a strong case for his candidacy for Player of the Season but there can be little argument that, in terms of sheer consistency and some quite brilliant individual contributions at key moments, Jordan Pickford was justifiably recognised as the best Everton player of the campaign.
As has been posited frequently on this site and its accompanying podcast, though, the real player of the season was the Blues’ 12th man. Selling out away allocations without fail and bringing levels of passion, noise and backing to home matches unseen for a club in the Toffees’ position in the closing weeks of the Premier League campaign, Everton’s supporters emerged as the club’s saviour in its time of need.
Frank Lampard may have tapped into what came to be dubbed the “Spirit Movement†among the fans — both outside and inside the stadium by the end of the season — and used it to signal-boost his own innate positivity but there can be little doubt that, without the big injection of energy and thunderous support from fans who refused to allow Everton to be relegated without a fight, the club would surely have slipped out of the top flight for the first time in 71 years.
The movement’s origins lay in an attempt by the 27 Campaign to demonstrate, in unmistakable terms, the deep dissatisfaction among supporters at the direction in which the Blues were heading by December last year. A hugely unpopular appointment at the outset, Rafael Benitez’s tenure as manager was spiralling out of control, with a miserable 4-1 home defeat to Liverpool marking a run of just one win in 11 games in all competitions under the Spaniard.
For many, that derby defeat was the straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back in terms of Benitez and, with the club as far from ending a sorry run of 27 years without a trophy as ever despite five managerial appointments and half a billion pounds spent on players under Farhad Moshiri, a section of the fanbase felt it was time for protest.
The planned walkout of supporters in the 27th minute of the next home game against Arsenal didn’t draw enough participants to make the visual impact the organisers had hoped but it did spark a loud response from those who remained in their seats, opting for vocal backing of the team over what many felt could be construed as a counter-productive walk-out on the players.
Everton rallied in that game under the Goodison lights to overturn a 1-0 deficit and win amid one of the first of a few spine-tinglingly raucous evenings at the Grand Old Lady on the road to the Blues’ salvation come May. The seeds of that night would sprout under Lampard following his belated appointment on transfer deadline day at the end of January, after Benitez had finally been given the axe, and they flourished as the team won vital home games over Leeds, Newcastle, Manchester United, Chelsea and, of course, Palace.
With the help of the fans and as the new manager slowly adapted his approach, tweaked his tactics and moulded his formations, a much-criticised group of players battled their mental fragility, physical injury crises, psychological set-backs, and refereeing incompetence and injustice to save themselves.
That Everton found themselves on the brink of “doing a Leeds†— as the cliché went about that club’s spectacular fall from grace two decades ago on the back of reckless spending in the transfer market — was the culmination of six years of seemingly aimless and profligate management of the club by Moshiri, the Board of Directors and those agent hangers-on (“super†or otherwise, in the case of the much-maligned Kia Joorabchian).
It is routinely acknowledged by many Blues that Moshiri’s ambition and intentions have almost always been aligned with those of the supporters, many of whom were quite content to go along with the massive expenditure on players if it meant that Everton were finally able to compete in the market.
By the same token, the failings and mis-steps undertaken by Ronald Koeman and Steve Walsh, the ambitious and, perhaps, overly-optimistic appointment of a green Marco Silva, the detested installation of Sam Allardyce as a glorified caretaker boss and the frivolous indulgence of Ancelotti when it came to the likes of James Rodriguez’s salary have also all been well-documented.
If Ancelotti’s sudden departure and the summer of 2021 that followed offered the hierarchy the opportunity to reset and re-align their strategy on a more pragmatic footing in terms of the leadership of the team, Moshiri et al didn’t take it. Forced into austerity when it came to player trading on the one hand, the owner erred massively with the hiring of Benitez and then made the almost catastrophic mistake of backing his manager instead of sacking him when fan unrest in December demanded it.
That Moshiri then waited another six weeks to bow to the inevitable and give Benitez the bullet was perplexing; the additional fortnight’s delay in appointing Lampard was infuriating — and even then it looked as though the British-Iranian billionaire was set on selecting the wildcard that was Vitor Pereira from a painfully short list of managerial candidates.
Perhaps only those involved in the dealings will know how close the untried (in Premier League terms) Portuguese coach was to being handed the task of rescuing the Toffees from an impending scrap to avoid relegation but it was uncomfortably real enough a possibility that one fan was, infamously, moved to spray-paint “No to Pereira, Lampard in†on the outside of Goodison Park.
The word from sources at the time was that the Board — specifically Chairman Bill Kenwright, CEO Denise Barrett-Baxendale, and Graeme Sharp, together with new advisor Tim Cahill — pushed hard for Lampard and whether that, combined with supporter sentiment and Pereira’s ill-advised live call to Sky Sports, pushed Moshiri in the direction of the former Derby and Chelsea boss is hard to say. But, eventually — and mercifully — the right choice was ultimately made.
If, as they say, you’re only as good as your last few decisions, then the jury must still be out on Moshiri and the Board. Kevin Thelwell’s arrival as director of football in place of the (effectively) ousted Marcel Brands is a potentially positive result of the internal strategic review that was promised by the hierarchy in December. Certainly, the new man’s initial steps in terms of restructuring things at Finch Farm are welcome developments but they will, necessarily, take a long time to bear fruit.
However, the hesitation over Lampard, the long delay in confirming his appointment until transfer deadline day and the apparent lack of forethought in the incoming transfers in January that ended up prioritising more attacking additions to midfield over the glaring need for reinforcements at centre-half and defensive-midfield point to a decision-making structure at the top of the club that is still flawed and still far too complacent. Moshiri’s seemingly blasé it’ll-be-alright-on-the-night attitude is one that has characterised his time at Everton and it very nearly came back to bite him very hard on the backside.
As the new season approaches, supporter expectations will very much have been tempered by the trauma of 2021-22 but Blues fans still want change, with the 27 Campaign still demanding it. The rumblings over a possible takeover this summer offered the prospect of Moshiri cutting his losses and selling up, with new owners coming in to, perhaps, shake up the hierarchy and the running of the club but with talks coming to nothing, the majority shareholder wrote to supporters this week to say that Everton FC is not for sale.
The 27 Campaign issued a statement of their own in the form of an open letter to Moshiri calling on him to be more open and transparent about this plans for the club but they are unlikely to receive much more by way of communication, at least in the short term. It remains to be seen how much traction the group can gain but it’s unlikely they are going to melt away and if the team gets off to a bad start to the new season, the Board can expect many more brickbats coming their way.
In the meantime, the whole situation leaves Everton in something akin to inertia. Thelwell and Lampard have been battling to upgrade a playing squad now shorn of Richarlison within tight budgetary restrictions that are limiting the amount they can offer by way of down payment, and just three weeks from the season-opener against Chelsea, only free transfer James Tarkowski has come in.
The club have brought in a new record shirt sponsorship deal with Stake.com and are close to unveiling a new sleeve sponsor but the lucrative commercial deals that were needed even before the severing of ties with USM Holdings, whose entities sponsored Finch Farm and match days at Goodison Park and were expected to take up the naming rights of Bramley-Moore Dock, remain elusive.
The hope — frankly, the necessity — is that the situation and the direction of the club can change but much depends on just how committed Moshiri actually is and that is very much open to question. The owner hasn’t attended an Everton fixture since December last year and though his two emailed letters to supporters were a welcome use of official club channels of communication, they have been criticised as being superficial and platitudinous.
The 27 Campaign may never get the acknowledgement they seek but Moshiri could draw much of the group’s sting by providing regular and fulsome updates via video interviews on evertonfc.com rather than hiding behind his preference to remain “a private manâ€. If nothing else, fans need to know that the club’s owner actually cares anymore about Everton’s fortunes, apart from the obvious necessity to keep the club in the top flight.
If he does retain a desire to make a success of his ownership of Everton rather than simply bide time until the new stadium is completed — at which time he will be better positioned to demand a higher price for his stake in the club — then nothing is beyond repair and it is not too late to re-inject some energy into the project he began when he came on board in February 2016 and get it back on track.
As Bramley-Moore Dock emerges, column by column, out of Liverpool’s famous waterfront, it stands as a shining example of what Moshiri’s wealth and acumen can achieve when channeled in the right direction and there’s an argument to be made that a Moshiri regime that has learned its lessons, is prepared to course-correct and still has funds to invest over time isn’t the worst thing for the future of the club.
Tony Fernandes, once the poster child for how not to run a Premier League club — complete with interfering agents, carefree transfer spending and a £42m fine breaching profit and sustainability rules — has undergone a transformation in how he runs Queens Park Rangers and turned the Championship club into a much more efficient and sustainable outfit.
The London club may have only finished mid-table this season but the groundwork is consciously being laid for an eventual tilt at returning to the top flight with a slew of lessons having been learned. Gone are the players on fat contracts and in their place is a more savvy recruitment policy based on bringing in younger, hungrier talent with sell-on value that can be reinvested into the squad. The near-£20m QPR collected from Crystal Palace for Ebere Eze was a case in point. As Fernandes himself said last year, his club have “gone back to grassroots and managed expectationsâ€.
With their backs against the wall in terms of FFP themselves and with precious little wiggle room in terms of buying players themselves, it’s a model that Moshiri — if he is to remain at the helm — and Everton must now accept and adopt. Perhaps the appointments of Thelwell and Lampard are the first steps towards that badly-needed shift but last season’s brush with relegation will have come as a sobering illustration of how far the Blues have fallen away from the Champions League dream they harboured just 18 months ago when Ancelotti had them sitting in the top two on Boxing Day before the wheels came off.
It promises to be a very long road back, though, with no shortcuts unless some truly monstrous commercial deals can be struck in the short term that would alleviate Everton’s concerns vis-à -vis the Premier League’s profitability and sustainability rules. Without change in the makeup of the boardroom — there is now a demonstrable need for a top-level business brain at Executive level and Bill Kenwright’s departure as Chairman is long overdue — that just doesn’t seem either possible or likely.
Asking Evertonians to go back to the well of patience yet again is going to be a hard sell, however. You would think that Moshiri would meet them halfway with some acknowledgement of the shortcomings at boardroom level and action towards addressing them but that would require a level of communication and introspection that has, to date, been in short supply.
In the absence of those changes off the pitch, offloading more of the expensive dead wood that is weighing the squad down and putting some patient building blocks back in place with sensible recruitment of younger players with sell-on value can, hopefully, put the club back on the right footing and reset the clock on another three-year plan towards achieving European qualification.
Back to square one...
Reader Comments (129)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer ()
2 Posted 17/07/2022 at
Lyndon, I still think it was the fans that selected Lampard, with the Board jumping on the bandwagon with a touch of anything but Moshiri's choice as part of a power play.
Champions League expectations 18 months ago is a distant lost memory. I don't think the club wanted European competition, given the financial situation at that time. They still don't.
3 Posted 17/07/2022 at
Like a gambler who should walk away but doesn't, he gambled with Benitez. The two managers were and are at opposite ends of the universe on ability, man-management and winning. An unmitigated disaster we only just survived but with no thanks to the owner or Board.
It has to change. There is no other option. The Board has to be led by someone who inspires and leads with a level of competence and authority to shape a future Top 6 Premier League side. As it stands, if nothing is changed, then we will perhaps stay in the Premier League, but survival being the name and ambition of the club.
If Moshiri needs to protect his investment until, at the very least, the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is open, then he has to appoint another Chairman and CEO. I suspect / believe he will do nothing in the hope he can get to the new ground, sell and move on. But frankly that makes no sense at all.
As a supporter, the focal point in Kenwright would be removed, it buys Moshiri time, reduces pressure on himself. It would get him over the line with the stadium and the fans... a win-win!
5 Posted 17/07/2022 at
All this cannot get in the way of immediate concerns with the season starting in less than 3 weeks.
There have been big distractions these last 6 weeks: Richarlison, FFP restrictions, failed takeovers, statements, etc. What is concerning me is that the eye has been taken off the ball with recruitment. Either that or procurement has been poor or compromised.
We need three core players signed to function as a competitive team. Richarlison's replacement is one of them, crucial as that is, sorting the midfield is a higher priority and central to the club's welfare.
Last season, it couldn't have been more obvious that we need two high-quality midfielders. The best we can get.
1. DCM fighter who is composed on the ball, 2. A high energy ACM with drive, essential assists and goals from midfield.
Moshiri essentially wants to buy time, and there is a simple answer – he has to buy the midfielders we need. There is no short cut.
6 Posted 17/07/2022 at
"We've had some good times..." I doubt we will have any more ‘til he's gone.
7 Posted 17/07/2022 at
Yes, it could be that Moshiri in appointing Ancelotti was gambling on finance from the Champions League, but Ancelotti was very much a lone voice in trying to get any European place in the end of season run in. Either there were parties at Everton that didn't want the extra work of Europe, both on the football end, or the finance end, with the addition of Uefa FFP rules on top of Premier League Profit and Sustainability Rules.
As for Kenwright, I totally agree, but the problem I see is Kenwright & Co (a structure and culture built up over 30 years) would need a complete overall of Everton from top to bottom. This structure and culture is in full self-preservation mode and self-sustaining itself as we post. IMO, they were up to their necks in a 'friendly' takeover recently.
Getting rid of our brother Bill would be only a start. The initial change it would bring is that Everton would be run as a football club, not a West End theatre.
8 Posted 17/07/2022 at
You stated not too long ago that Everton's Board of Directors were one of the highest paid in the Premier League, there was a banner in circulation yesterday that they are the second highest paid Board of Directors. Could you shed any light on this, Jerome?
I think it is a very important issue that this band of next to useless directors are all paid by Mr Moshiri's money without showing any ability to get Everton out of the mess Everton FC are in.
Are they on contracts or paid on a weekly basis? What is the criteria for them continuing in their positions? Who assesses their ability? Who are they answerable to? What do they actually do?
9 Posted 17/07/2022 at
10 Posted 17/07/2022 at
I slightly disagree with your last line.
If we appoint a commercially astute board to replace the ones who nearly got us relegated, if Moshiri could learn to delegate, if we replace Richarlison, if we can rely on Lampard to be the manager and not the 12th man, if we buy a midfield, if we get enough income to lift FFP restrictions, if the Top 6 hadn't built whilst we pissed it away…
Then we'd be back to square one. At least with a new stadium on the horizon.
11 Posted 17/07/2022 at
It's really a no-win scenario because – with any (and I mean any) upturn in form on the pitch, the 27 campaigners will be told to be quiet and that gives oxygen and buying time to the cronies already running (a joke) our club.
Time to go to London soon and disrupt his luvvie plays in Shaftsbury Avenue. Needs must if Moshiri is still under his weird spell.
12 Posted 17/07/2022 at
I'd like to say I'll never put myself through the range of emotions I and thousands of us went through last season again. It was emotional to be a part of. Heartbreaking at times, watching what I love dearly almost break apart.
For me, I saw the tide turn at the Brentford away match. And at Norwich, that was it. No going back for any remaining justification to retain the ill-advised choice of manager.
But I would and I will do it all again. I'm the ultimate foolish gift that keeps giving with Everton. I've been hooked since before I can remember. I don't know or want anything else.
"For better or for worse," as the vows go. I've been there in good times and more importantly been there in the bad times. Loyalty and a sheer refusal to accept we were going to give up our place at the top tier of English football. I couldn't accept it was going to happen. We didn't.
I want Everton to compete and be successful. Because when we are successful, it will mean so much more to me and countless other devoted Evertonians than some supporters of other clubs I have to humour or bite my tongue with on a regular basis. Big club? Wait until we win something again. Football will be shocked at the outpouring.
Good call on Pickford; also my shout for Player of the Season, closely followed by Anthony Gordon.
We can't let them think they're off the hook because we somehow managed to hit the brake pads and pull the hand brake to do a last-minute U-turn just before we went over the cliff edge.
It's not "job done" and the natives will remain quiet. We expect better. We demand better and we should expect and demand better. This can't be brushed under the carpet.
Change. If the owner wants to remain, fine, but change who you are delegating and entrusting responsibility to. Put people who can deliver in place. Those who currently remain in place have consistently failed. Change it, Mr Moshiri. Sell or change your board. They have failed you and Everton Football Club.
I don't know if the words fit, but marching down Shaftesbury Avenue, Brian.
With the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock, we have a fantastic opportunity. Let's not waste it.
Forever. Onward Evertonians.
13 Posted 17/07/2022 at
I have no idea what Kevin Thelwell is on (regardless, he's not on the Board). I would guess it's less but it seems based on what little we know that Moshiri has put a premium on the DoF role which is commendable if he allows it the leeway to succeed or fail.
14 Posted 17/07/2022 at
Personally I don't think he was allowed to do the job he was signed on to do although there was the feeling that his attitude became “If you can't beat them, then join them†with regards to the Board.
15 Posted 17/07/2022 at
I'm hoping that the new DoF will be empowered to be one. But the signals and messaging I'm seeing and hearing so far suggest otherwise.
I hope I'm wrong.
16 Posted 17/07/2022 at
Just wish he had the courage or vision to see his empire is at best standing still. This may be the year three worse teams don't exist. Sad and dangerous times as you win nothing with kids. Heard that before though.
17 Posted 17/07/2022 at
"A long road back with no shortcuts."
This is it now. If we just stick to the plan, don't get flustered by some bad results here and there, see real progress, then it will be long but will be worth it.
We tried taking the shortcuts, splashing money on shite players. The tortoise & the hare springs to mind. Slow and steady wins the race.
There are "smaller" teams in this leauge who are miles ahead in terms of identity, style & organisation throughout the club, with clear long-term plans: Brighton, Leicester, Wolves even.
Buying young hungry players to suit their systems. Yes, they are having their best players bought, but making handsome profits and step by step becoming more competitive in this league.
We were the hare, thinking we could just blast past them, but where has it got us??
18 Posted 17/07/2022 at
He likes the way things are set up and doesn't appear to intend to change anything.
It's his money being spent, his 94% of the shares, and him calling the shots.
He can't... he refuses to get out of his own way.
That's the problem.
19 Posted 17/07/2022 at
20 Posted 17/07/2022 at
I got that information from a tweet by Paul the Esk on Twitter. It was a comparison of Directors' remuneration for all of the clubs in the Premier League. Man Utd had the highest with Everton second. A breakdown of individual earnings you would not get. But it is interesting that Brands according to Lyndon was on a substantial amount. I suppose this idea arose with a comparison when Brands was not a Director.
But still, second in the Premier League does raise some questions, when one looks at performance. Brands was short of a ١ million pay calbre. He was just to weak for his role and got run over by Kenwright and Moshiri. Walsh got run over by Koeman and suggested Big Sam.
I don't know if Moshiri understands the DoF role or the manager's role at a football club. He thinks that these two roles are the primary influence on a club's overall performance. He needs to look further.
21 Posted 17/07/2022 at
22 Posted 17/07/2022 at
I personally wouldn't believe anything Moshiri, is saying Michael, and although I hope I'm wrong, (because we need players right now) my own personal view is that I think he's biding his time, and he's really desperate to sell Everton. Time will tell, I'm sure.
23 Posted 17/07/2022 at
I think they call it 'confirmation bias'.
24 Posted 17/07/2022 at
Time will tell, Michael, I still believe we will be sold sooner rather than later, unless Moshiri just can't get anywhere near the money, because of the poor way Everton have been run?
25 Posted 18/07/2022 at
The takeover was timely to take advantage of his resolve. It probably was thought he would take a hit and offload. Kenwright and his mate Kenyon really thought they had him. That was never the case and his backer may have appeared to be gone, but has he really?
Everton is more stable than it has been for a while and surely they can't have as bad a season as last? The new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is storming ahead and within 2 years Everton will be worth a lot more, so Moshiri can afford to wait.
Two years in football is a long time at the moment. In the case of Everton, it will appear to be a lifetime for us. A lot of us on Toffeeweb suffer from analysis paralysis at the moment.
26 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Kenwright personifies unaccountability, lies, incompetence and favouritism in the extreme. Somehow he found a guy with all those characteristics to make himself obscenely rich in buying him out, at our expense.
Anyone believing BMD is anything other than a now desperate enterprise by a joke of an owner to recover as much as possible from his preposterously stupid spending, 95% under the control of the wealthiest charlatan in the boardroom of course, is simply deluded.
That inane spending has already castrated any attempt next season and beyond to even hope to achieve Europe, never mind the preposterous boast Moshiri made when being conned by Kenwright that Champions League within three years was the minimum expected.
Signing players today comes way down on the "Any Other Business" record of boardroom machinations as a result of the well-known, world-wide, ineptitude of those allegedly in charge of us.
Saving their/Moshiri's arses (it amounts to the same thing in our self-serving boardroom) occupies the top 95% of their ambition of course.
Still, let's not have a meaningful public protest eh?
Everton that!
28 Posted 18/07/2022 at
29 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Moshiri needs to know that if he's not prepared to bring in a totally new board and get that leech Kenwright out of our club then he needs to sell up.
It's no use pussy-footing around with this scenario because, if we thought last season was bad, then, barring a miracle by a still likeable but unproven Frank Lampard, we could be down by Christmas.
Just look at the squad and it's still laden with bang average players who have done nothing but underperform for years. Where's the goals coming from? Where's the assists coming from?
Maybe Lampard should get his boots back on to help the cause.
30 Posted 18/07/2022 at
This teflon tear-jerker and his dynamic CEO just have to fall. When's the London protest outside his latest play?
31 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Anyone notice that the Echo has dropped us from the main banner on the homepage?
32 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Seriously, I hope Jerome, has called it right with regards to Kenwright trying to bring Kenyon's group on board, because there's definitely other parties interested in Everton, but probably not at Farhad Moshiri's price.
It's sad when things get personal but you can feel the anger growing and things might become very unpleasant for those in the firing line (not tax exiles in Southern France) with the only confirmation bias being that Everton are going to struggle if they don't sign some good players.
33 Posted 18/07/2022 at
We seen a glorious comeback under lights v Arsenal last season so all's well with the world and the walk-out is getting booed. Maybe all fans are fickle and, as I've said, if it gets painful, that's our big chance of change.
Obviously the downside of that is, being a Blue, we don't want defeat after defeat. Kenwright is not daft and knows and plays along with any euphoria…singing Grand Old Team is his oxygen.
34 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Oh Death, where is thy sting...
35 Posted 18/07/2022 at
36 Posted 18/07/2022 at
37 Posted 18/07/2022 at
38 Posted 18/07/2022 at
I mentioned this on another thread last week, although it seems that the Echo has noticed and the link is back to its prominent position. Unfortunately they still have a couple of Kopites venting their spleens in the comments section to so many Everton-related articles.
39 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Previously I stated new footy stadium builds coincide with a downturn in club fortunes as though the hand of fate refuses to countenance the extravagance. But it's not luck, coincidence or happenstance – it's more prosaic: the projects cost too much.
Clubs collapse into a financial coma and it's already begun here with the mad appointment of Benitez with his 5 bob transfer budget. We are unequivocally already in the death throes.
I have cited Leicester previously as a straw to cling on to but, upon further inspection, that is utter plums as they went bust and got relegated alongside their stadium build.
But weathers nice at the mo!
40 Posted 18/07/2022 at
This time it's not just the lack of transfers it's the gut wrenching realisation that nothing is changing and we are just going to carry on as before.
Without better players this squad is going to struggle no matter what miracles Frank can conjure up.
A review run by the very board responsible for our problems has done next to nothing in terms of the changes required.
Moshiri needs a very rich buyer soon as that is our only way out of this mess and definitely the only chance of getting rid of Kenwright.
41 Posted 18/07/2022 at
been demoted from main banner
42 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Whoever owns our club has a very difficult job on their hands, more so now that our spending is limited to below what the usual top 6 can spend.
Those clubs are holding all the aces and the realist in me is saying its going to be a long time that we are back sitting at the top table again.
I'm going to enjoy the fight this season, even though I know we are playing for survival more than glory.
43 Posted 18/07/2022 at
44 Posted 18/07/2022 at
I notice you didn't list spurs in there who have shown what a difference a new stadium will make. They have been careful with spending while developing their stadium but look at the cash they are able to splash now.
"Certain for the drop in 2 years "
Come on mate, statements like that give nothing constructive.
BMD is our last real chance of getting anywhere near the top 6 levels of performance off the field with income and sponsorship. If it takes being more careful in the transfer market then suck it up for the long term gain.
We have the chance to give our young fans something special for the future. BMD will be around after all these posters on here are well 6ft under.
Fans demanding massive transfer spending, slating free transfers does no good.
I'm not moshiris biggest fan but he's backed up all his words with dough.
His biggest mistakes imo are the people he's got running the bussines side of things. I'm not talking Bill he's just a symbolic figure now with no real power it's not his money being spent or his asset (efc).
If moshiri gets bmd built I think we will be bought by bigger investors as his asset will then be worth alot more with more guarantees of revenue, more season tickets, more match day income, more none football uses for bmd its all win win. How people can see it as a bad thing baffles me
45 Posted 18/07/2022 at
If Moshiri had a Levy-esque person running things for him, we wouldn't be in this mess.
46 Posted 18/07/2022 at
47 Posted 18/07/2022 at
https://www.mnufc.com/news/sound-of-the-loons-episode-187-total-toffee-takeover
As an aside maybe we should look at Brandon Williams and James Garner at MU. Williams can play both full back roles and played a season in the EPL already. Garner could be the DF we need, after a really good loan at Forest last season. Loan or buy for £18m combined. Gilmour at Chelsea would be a real coup - a proper player - just ask the RS !!
48 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Spurs have done nothing and immediately upon entering the new place Pochettino lost his mojo then Jose failed. Kane then told all and sundry he wanted away and if City had stumped up the dough he would have gone. Hardly a phoenix rising from the ashes
No, Spurs have more or less muddled along as they did at the old place but it is early days so I won't consign them to the utter disaster bin just yet.
All the lovely attributes of BMD for the young will have been on the brochures of all new footy stadia and look how they panned out. As for what we should have done that easy - cut our cloth accordingly ie revamped GP
49 Posted 18/07/2022 at
I hope we can hold it all together enough next season to afford the opportunity for some real longer-term development.
50 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Not because I have any sympathy towards our directors, but simply because we have to try and avoid anything which might detract from performances on the field. Every point in this coming season will be vital, so we have to re-harness the positivity from the start.
I commend everyone who wants to do something to bring about positive change, but I fear protests will spook Moshiri, possibly prompting him into an uninformed, knee-jerk reaction.
I would prefer an intelligent, respected Evertonian to be allowed the opportunity to sit down with Mr Moshiri in order to ask him the questions we all want answering. It would be mutually understood that such a person would be able to report accurately and factually on those discussions. There would be no hidden cameras.
I nominate Lyndon Lloyd.
51 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Does it guarantee success? Of course not and we can point to Aston Villa, Newcastle, Sunderland and countless others. But long term vision often wins.
City have the Etihad versus the disjointed Maine Road with that awful away end I used to sit in with the uncovered corner and those awful benches (not seats) behind the goal. Awful ground that I got drenched at more than once in the rain before the customary stand off in the unpaved car park outside the Kippax and the away end.
Old Trafford got transformed. No more half covered Stretford End.
Anfield literally only has the lower tier of the Anfield Road that is recognisable and they are further developing that end as we speak.
If you'd been put into frozen preservation in 1986 and woken now you wouldn't believe you were in Stamford Bridge, which looked like a Greyhound racing track with one football stand on one side back then.
Arsenal built the Emirates.
The stadium is a factor in achieving success as long as you do it in conjunction with doing it on the pitch.
Goodison, a place I love dearly, was iconic in it's day and at one point, ahead of it's time. A place of many firsts in English football stadia. Yet apart from the Park End and the extended tin roof over the Gwladys Street, it's still 1987.
35 years.
We were successful and our stadium reflected our standing. But her days are done. We didn't do a Tottenham so we have to place hope in Bramley Moore to move us forward.
52 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Other than Arsenal the rest are conversions with City gifted a stadium.
Arsenal are nowhere near the Wenger era at Highbury so I'm not sure you thought this through.
53 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Everton have been a car-crash of a club for six years and before that the club was stagnant compared to the heady days of the mid 80s. Didn't Spurs also obtain government money to get them through the impacts of Covid? Unfortunately, because Everton's owner and board have got so much wrong, it may be a few seasons before we challenge Spurs, but in reality apart from them having a London post-code, they are not a super club either.
Everton propped up the 17 clubs that appear on the list with economic losses of £286.9m, a figure £46.8m higher than the next team on the list, Tottenham Hotspur, who stood at £240.1m in economic losses. Spurs were followed by Manchester City (£238.9m), Chelsea (£234.1m), Arsenal (£230.6m) and Manchester United (£188.7m).
Combined, the Premier League made economic losses of £2.25bn, with only Wolverhampton Wanderers (£90.3m economic profit) and Sheffield United (£21m economic profit) in the black from those two seasons following the pandemic.
54 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Spurs. Fill your boots. We can all get rich, buy the club, install a management team from the pages of ToffeeWeb and stop moaning forever.
Seriously, get five places. This is a real good bet.
55 Posted 18/07/2022 at
56 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Okay, I didn't mention that Man City were gifted a stadium. But call that good strategy and planning. West Ham got more of a gift as I understand it.
Arsenal built The Emirates. It's taken a while, but they're getting back there. Streets ahead of us when I baked in the sun in May and watch us get pummelled by a superior team in a superior stadium as they qualified for Europe.
Strategy and vision.
The rest I'll give you. But they realised the importance of developing the stadium – just as Everton did in bygone years when we were a forward-thinking club.
57 Posted 18/07/2022 at
My point is clubs who build a stadium almost universally go backwards, Arsenal included. However, Arsenal started their project on the back of success via Wenger, making them considerably less financially vulnerable. The liquidations and relegations common to the rest not as strong didn't happen but they did have a massive fall from grace.
We aren't building under the aegis of a Wenger period, we are building on a wing and a prayer, as per Southampton, Leicester, Derby, Hull, Bolton, Boro etc.
Hopefully I'm wrong but being a factual rather than sentimental sort, I can't ignore overwhelming precedent all pointing to the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock killing us off.
58 Posted 18/07/2022 at
This will be the League table Moshiri will be focusing on, trying to get up to midtable.
59 Posted 18/07/2022 at
City moved to the now called Etihad in only their second season back in the top flight of English football only a few seasons having been relegated and not long after they made that miraculous escape from being confined to another season in the 3rd tier of English football.
The They finished 2 places above the relegation places. 16th; one place and 2 points above an Everton team they battered 5-1 on the final day of the season. They moved on the bigger and better with their new stadium and are now breathing down our necks in terms of league titles as well as having won other trophies along the way.
United started redeveloping their stadium with a long term vision in the early 90s. Liverpool likewise albeit later in the game. Their was a time in my lifetime that Goodison was considered a better stadium than Anfield. Chelsea started in the early 90s to set them up for success that wasn't realised until years later.
These are long term plans built on having a strategy and a plan. Something we've lacked.
The alternative? Let's stay at Goodison and stand still.
I know you can point to more failures than successes, but we are not a Leicester or a Sunderland. We are not building a soulless bowl that looks the same. Insert / delete Sunderland, Leicester, Derby, Southampton, just change the seat colours.
I'll have to disagree with you Barry. This stadium is going to be the making of us and our future. I think it is going to be iconic and special, just as Goodison was in the day. And set us up for success if we can sort out the running of the club. But the stadium is one thing they've got right in my opinion.
60 Posted 18/07/2022 at
61 Posted 18/07/2022 at
62 Posted 18/07/2022 at
We should have redeveloped Goodison or moved decades ago.
Those who we were peers with in the then top 5 have all redeveloped or moved. They were planning then. We stood still.
Chelsea and Manchester City, who were yo-yo clubs between leagues have surpassed us.
I get it, There's more to it than a stadium. There are many other factors and ultimately it's about what you do on the pitch.
But the new stadium gives us opportunity and a lot of us have been calling for it for 20 odd years, because we recognised the need.
Sadly, Goodison has become a ball and chain around our neck and one of the factors that has held us back.
I haven't and won't look it up and I know it's not the biggest contributing factor to finances these days, but I dread to see where our match day income fairs in that league table. I wouldn't be surprised to be told it was on a par with our league position last season.
63 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Totally puzzled by your City references they didn't build a stadium and Liverpool and Utd are probably the biggest examples of why you should redevelop what you have.
What is the long term plan at BMD?
I'm sure much fanciful blue tinted scenarios are being evoked but history irrefutably shows clubs that build get in trouble.
Does the long term plan account for that?
64 Posted 18/07/2022 at
Leicester went bust and got relegated if that isn't going backwards I don't know what is. Their eventual title whilst enjoyable was the result of a perfect storm as they ploughed on amidst the usual suspects being in turmoil. it won't happen again
65 Posted 18/07/2022 at
66 Posted 18/07/2022 at
67 Posted 18/07/2022 at
But they had a plan and a vision.
68 Posted 18/07/2022 at
69 Posted 18/07/2022 at
What I don't believe however, is that the new stadium itself can generate any sort of profit level that can make a marked difference in the shorter or even medium term. Nor do I believe Goodison to be a ball & chain; it is low-cost relative to what it generates, we already own it.
Those in the then-top five you mention have all received substantial investment not generated by their stadiums. City and Chelsea are where they are today because of money pumped in.
Of course the day comes for about everything when it needs replacement. Doing it as early as possible is usually "Cheaper" over the long haul - but it is a cost, a big cost. That cost won't go away and if, if, we should land on harder times, it could spell trouble.
I'm not being negative but just opining that the stadium will not be the panacea when it comes to ensuring a glowing financial future - it simply won't generate the money for that.
There are several more reasons why the stadium is a good thing for the future, a sensible direction provided there are no finance/operating cost troubles ahead - but it won't earn us transformative piles of dough.
70 Posted 18/07/2022 at
The stadium is one thing, the funding of the team is another.
71 Posted 19/07/2022 at
It will break my heart when we leave Goodison Park and I wish we'd planned decades ago to redevelop it; probably needing to buy up the Gwladys Street school and houses off Bullens Road to rotate the stadium, just as Tottenham have done.
I know the stadium alone won't mean success. But it goes a long way in attracting investment and generating the funds and sponsorship required to compete.
72 Posted 19/07/2022 at
I look at the world football transfers and I see so many young players being signed that are at a better standard than anything we have at Everton. Yet we are always chasing either players from relegated teams or players who are fringe players at other clubs.
I can't remember the last time we signed and unearthed a decent first-team player.
73 Posted 19/07/2022 at
If you think a new stadium causing a club to go bust and relegation leads to silverware every time you need to do more research. Filbert Street revamped may have brought similar results it's all hypothetical guesswork.
74 Posted 19/07/2022 at
I totally agree 'that the new stadium itself can generate any sort of profit level that can make a marked difference in the shorter or even medium term. '
The Premier League Profit and Sustainability Rules have established a floor for trading performance. But that is only the start, every department has to become profit centred with performance targets and accountability to improve trading performance.
75 Posted 19/07/2022 at
I don't see how Spurs have gone backwards at all, Barry. They have overtaken Arsenal and Man Utd and established themselves in the Top 4.
Can you honestly say it's the stadium that made Pochettino leave? Or Kane wanting to leave?
Romantic notions of development of Goodison Park are just that – they make no long-term sense. Everton were a club that had the vision to build Goodison and we've all enjoyed it over the years but now the game has moved on.
We need all the extra income a new ground brings. The younger fans don't hold the same connection we do to Goodison, my lad is counting down the days to get to the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock.
We need the vision and forward-thinking to maximise this opportunity. For all the young blues that will have something to be proud of for years ahead while we are long dead. This is what it's about. Giving them the best opportunity in the future to have a successful team.
The teams we are talking about – Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Leicester – wish they had the Blues support. We sell Goodison out every match yet make a pittance compared to teams with modern staduims. Only since Chelsea have been successful lately could they sell out their ground.
I have no problem moving from Goodison. Without sounding like a tory twat, we should all be prepared to suck up a little short-term austerity for the longer-term gain.
It's the people who are running club that worries me as they have shown nothing that gives me confidence that they can get it right and maximise the opportunities this move would bring.
76 Posted 19/07/2022 at
Yes, attracting sponsorship and investment. That's why it's crucial we have a specialist team on board, maximising every strength and pull of the area around Bramley-Moore Dock, as well as the stadium itself.
Them words are totally foreign to the people there now and it would be a tragedy and an embarrassment if we make do and mend with the Chang Kitbags of this world.
One of many reasons we say "enough is enough". Moshiri will thank us in the end as, at the moment, he can't see it and obviously no-one on board is going to point this out.
77 Posted 19/07/2022 at
I believe I said Spurs are muddling along much as before rather than gone backwards. Reining in Arsenal began when they were at White Hart Lane as Arsenal dutifully imploded building The Emirates.
All the fancy-schmancy claims of increased revenue etc are contingent on bucking the trend of unmitigated disaster experienced by all who have built rather than revamped before us.
I hope we do buck the trend but I have to ask what is different about us to make it so?
Zip-all is my answer.
78 Posted 19/07/2022 at
But I'm not sure that's the point. I think the point is that Everton now really stand out in the Premier League as having a very old-fashioned stadium. It doesn't half generate a hell of an atmosphere and it's a proper maybe even nostalgic football experience too compared with others – but it doesn't reflect well on us, we are not attractive to new supporters, home and (the game being global now) overseas.
Same for players. Goodison, sadly, has no wow factor for potential new acquisitions; the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock does.
I think we have a much better sustainable long-term future as a result of the stadium upgrade (which will give us the best looking stadium in the Northwest) – even if that means we're short of cash for the time being.
79 Posted 19/07/2022 at
I don't think it was building The Emirates. I think it was Wenger's stubbornness. How he refused to break wage structures and pay or increases in transfer fees.
He wouldn't shift his economic outlook where he liked to buy young players, develop them, and build. The Arsenal fans grew impatient watching other teams spending 㿞 - 60 - 70M and he was ousted.
Then you have the vacuum after a manager who had controlled everything leaving – that's how they got where they are, imo. Not building a new ground. Would they be buying Zinchenko, Jesus now if they were still at Highbury??
If Spurs are muddling along, what do you count as progress? Getting in to the Top 4, quality manager, building a strong squad. I'd say that's progress.
The money they make through non-football uses of the new stadium (concerts, NFL, boxing etc) is probably more than we make at Goodison from football alone
It's took someone like Moshiri with the eye for an opportunity like this to get the ball rolling... God knows how many chances Bill had but he didn't have the balls.
Where's the disaster at Arsenal? Where is the disaster at Spurs? Okay, Man City's and West Ham's stadiums can't be compared to building their own... but are they in disaster? No, they are not. West ham are in a lot better place now than before.
The disaster would be to resign our young future blues to paying to sit behind a post with obstructive views… Queuing for stinking out-of-date toilets… Struggling to get a munch before or at half-time at the tiny little food outlets…
Come on – this is 2022, mate! We are Everton – we want better!
80 Posted 19/07/2022 at
Can't leave it.
81 Posted 19/07/2022 at
The new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock will be built even before you could build a decent team with loads of money spent on players. We've seen what splurging the cash gets you.
I'm optimistic that Frank will be a good manager, even though he's still on a learning curve, that young players will want to play for and develop under him.
Let's give him the chance to build a young exciting team to take us into the new ground. It can be done without splashing 㿔-50M on all players.
I just hope a few bad results this season don't see him hounded out on the back of what the board have done in the past. The constant change of managers is just so damaging. Players won't come if they think the manager won't get a chance, young lads will think twice before signing for us.
82 Posted 19/07/2022 at
My lad won't even leave his seat half time. "Nah, not standing in that, Dad."
We've suffered long enough!!
83 Posted 19/07/2022 at
84 Posted 19/07/2022 at
"It hasn't been a route to glory for anyone particularly. But I'm not sure that's the point."
I can think of no other point justifying such a monumental gamble.
If the venture damages the club, as per most other examples, the decades we wail about will seem like halcyon days by comparison.
85 Posted 19/07/2022 at
Arsenal were Champions in their penultimate season at Highbury and Champions League finalists in their final season there. Only when they moved to the Emirates did the descent to relative obscurity begin..
By any gauge, new footy stadium builds cause problems for the vast majority (if not all) English clubs. The idea it will somehow be different for us requires the biggest pair of blue-tinted specs ever created.
86 Posted 19/07/2022 at
I can't see any future for us at all if we stay at Goodison. With the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock and better club management generally, I can see us having a decent resurgence.
87 Posted 19/07/2022 at
If we become very successful on the pitch (I know, I am an optimist), then we won't have significant spare seating capacity to take advantage and are locked into a site where we can't add more capacity.
Peel will profit massively from EFC being anchor tenants and our presence will lift the value of that site by a huge amount-you can already see signs of growth in the area. We should have aimed for 60,000 capacity with room for expansion or rejected the site.
88 Posted 19/07/2022 at
We should have addressed the issues years ago and revamped Goodison Park as per the blueprint of successful outfits like Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool.
But we're in now and have to see the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock through despite factual evidence bearing no relationship to the transformation many see as virtually guaranteed.
The pitfalls were or are all a bit obvious, IMO, but footy mostly runs on myth, emotion and downright delusion – especially at this club. So headlong we charge with "Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon in front of them, rode the 600."
89 Posted 19/07/2022 at
There are so many examples of "Motorway thinking" that require fortunes and huge disruption to correct down the line. The cheapest and best time to build big is when you build new.
If I remember right, it was said early on by Dan Meis's team that up to 60,000 was possible on the site, though it never went that way. Every seat costs but are as cheap as they'd ever be.
I also agree regarding (extra) revenue. No game-changer of itself.
So many angles!
90 Posted 19/07/2022 at
Wigan: new stadium, first major trophy.
Middlesborough: new stadium, first major trophy.
Leicester: new stadium, 2 major trophies.
Man City: new stadium, need I say more?
Spurs: new stadium, now looking like a team with title ambitions and a Champions League Final.
Bolton: new stadium, Top 8 finish on the bounce and first European football.
Arsenal: new stadium, between 1998–99 and 2016–17, Arsenal qualified in 19 successive Champions League seasons, an English football record (only surpassed in Europe by Real Madrid), and four major honours.
Southampton: new stadium, now a regular Premier League team for 11 consecutive years.
Oh and Blackburn: new stadium, Premier League winners and runners-up.
Derby... okay, I'll give you that one, haha!
91 Posted 19/07/2022 at
Staying at Goodison sees us stay even further still. We didn't redevelop it years ago when we should have. We'd have had to rotate it and buy up houses like them to do it.
It depends how we do the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock. I went to Tottenham on a business meeting before they'd even played their first match and got a walk around. They briefed us on how the intent was to change the entire matchday experience. Keep the fans in the ground spending their money there rather than in the local pubs and food outlets.
No, matchday income isn't the most significant source of income. But having a stadium that is iconic, that can attract significantly more sponsorship, offer more corporate seats and generate a lot more matchday income will contribute. And as mentioned above, encourage players to play there.
When I go to Goodison, the club gets, on average, 㿝 off me. That's it. Because I never get served at half-time. Otherwise, it would be about 㿣. I spend more than that at away grounds even though the tickets are capped at 㿊.
The rest of my matchday spend is in town, the local pubs and Goodison Supper Bar because the stadium facilities are still the same ones I frequented aged 14.
92 Posted 19/07/2022 at
93 Posted 19/07/2022 at
If you stand still, you are effectively walking slowly backwards as everyone walks past you.
That's what has happened.
94 Posted 19/07/2022 at
I did chuckle. Your ability to miss where Boro and Wigan are now and the near liquidations and relegations of Leicester, Bolton and Southampton resultant of new builds was up there with a Calvert-Lewin sitter miscue
Two other things: Man City didn't build a new stadium and Blackburn have always played at Ewood Park.
Oh yes, Spurs played their first game at the new gaff in April followed by the Champions League Final a few weeks later on 1 June. Presumably you see this as proof positive of the magic of a new stadium… 😂😂😂😂
I love a good tongue-in-cheek post – marvellous stuff
95 Posted 19/07/2022 at
But... Barry, this new ground must miraculously be different. It must spit in the face of reason. We need a new stadium without the remotest downside. We need our relegation-haunted heroes to find pixie dust from somewhere. We need Frank to be the luckiest coach who ever lived.
You are right, Leicester will never happen again. What is about to transpire must be the most unlikely of outcomes. It will make Leicester look mundane.
96 Posted 19/07/2022 at
97 Posted 19/07/2022 at
That is why we are a bottom-half team. No ambition.
98 Posted 19/07/2022 at
I did chuckle. "Your ability to miss where Boro and Wigan are now." Yes Barry we were FOUR points away from playing them this coming season.
99 Posted 19/07/2022 at
A quick look will tell you Spurs overtook Man Utd with their matchday income/gate receipts expected to be 𧴵M over a full season with fans. Everton around 13th on the list at 㾻M – how can we expect to compete?
Wouldn't you rather have your pint and scran in the ground knowing you are contributing that bit more?
Barry I take your points on board even if I don't agree with a lot of them. There is always risk with these things. I'm sure there was risk when they built Goodison but they seen what the future needs would be.
To not take this chance would be criminal. I'd like to see a bigger capacity too, but as Dan Meis's explanation goes, for the extra seats after 50-odd thousand, the cost per seat to build the next 10-15,000 gets a lot more expensive. We have to take this chance now before the teams at the top are too far to catch.
Should we just not sign players then either in case they turn out shit? They are all a risk
100 Posted 20/07/2022 at
Minor detail perhaps, but we shouldn't allow ourselves to be marginalized like the club has allowed over the years.
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk
Thank you Maria,
Please look at the page links above. LFC has a place on the main banner but Everton does not.
Thank you,
Dave
On Jul 19, 2022, at 11:32 PM, Maria Breslin Dear Dave,
Thank you for your email. Everton was accidentally knocked off the main banner during work to fix the social icons.
As soon as this was spotted we made a temporary fix.
You should be able to see Everton on our desktop and mobile banners.
All the best, Maria
Maria Breslin
Editor
Liverpool ECHO
On Tue, 19 Jul 20mes
101 Posted 20/07/2022 at
Will keep my eye on it tomorrow. Thanks for highlighting.
102 Posted 20/07/2022 at
Spot on, but people love to clutch at straws.
This idea BMD will turn our fortunes around allowing us to steam full ahead in a magnificent return to the top table to forever feast in greener pastures has no basis in fact. In fact quite the contrary
But dare we raise such inconvenient facts?
Not without a tinhat on. 😂😂😂
103 Posted 20/07/2022 at
I think most people are saying the new stadium is one of a few things that need to be done to give us a chance of a decent future.
Without a new stadium we just lose more and more ground on the Rich 7 and also we'll run clubs like Leicester, Brighton etc
104 Posted 20/07/2022 at
Is it the fans bemoaning the fact they're nowhere near what they were at Highbury when they reached the Champions League Final in their last season after being Champions the previous season?
Man City not building is the crux of the matter – not sure how you can't see the difference a freebie stadium makes compared to building a newie with the accompanying financial albatross it brings.
You do seem remarkably irked at mere facts.
105 Posted 20/07/2022 at
May I respectfully suggest you are in the minority.
I've seen countless posters here and elsewhere declaring the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock as a panacea – in fact, I'd go as far as to say you're the first I've seen posting in such measured terms.
The Garden of Eden future of the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is almost an article of faith with these people and to suggest otherwise appears to be heresy. I believe my beheading is integral to the opening day party – wonder if I should wear an orange jumpsuit?
106 Posted 20/07/2022 at
As Moshiri is funding the build and isn't putting the club in debt, I just can't understand how anyone could see this as a negative move. He's got many things wrong but I will be forever grateful to him when the new stadium is built.
Of course it doesn't guarantee that what happens on the pitch will improve but why should Evertonians have to continue to watch our team play in such an outdated stadium?
I went on a corporate jolly to watch Man Utd last season and the stadium concourses were packed at 12:30 pm and were still busy when we were poured out at 7 pm. In the lounge we were in, it wasn't just others on corporate freebies. There were families there who were spending 𧴜s on the 'experience'.
I've also been to away games at Arsenal, City, Spurs and West Ham and the comparison is embarrassing. We deserve better.
107 Posted 20/07/2022 at
Surely revamping GP at significantly less cost would have addressed your issues?
I don't think Mosh is giving the club the money gratis we will be in debt for this build. More worrying is the curtailing of funds for transfers, but hey ho! we will see soon enough.
108 Posted 20/07/2022 at
The fans would get a better product, the concessions would be run by professionals who know what they're doing, and the scale of the operations would probably keep prices below what most football clubs currently charge the fans.
I mean, I love the hot dogs and pies at Goodison, but only in a kind of retro, "you're having a fucking laugh" way.
109 Posted 20/07/2022 at
"They brainwash you into thinking Top 6 is a success. Is it fuck."
No wonder he's barred or not welcome down at L4. That's the Everton I know and the standards (dirty word) we should adhere to.
110 Posted 20/07/2022 at
After all this time, I am surprised that more people don't seem to find this a little disconcerting.
I have many reservations about this project, but it's a nice day outside, so I'll leave it there.
111 Posted 20/07/2022 at
In my romantic moments, I dream of a return to Young and Vernon, or Ball, Kendall and Harvey, or even the less individual, but more complete team of the mid-eighties. The truth is that, for 27 years, we have been at best Top 8, more often mid-table and occasionally fighting relegation.
Kenwright, of whom I have been complaining since the last millenium on this site, and Moshiri are unable to drag this once great club towards mediocrity.
On the pitch, we are weak and must be amongst the bookies' favourites to go down to the Championship after our very strong flirtation with relegation last season. Paul the Esk's analyses of Everton as a business model makes me realise that the playing weakness is really a secondary concern. Everton are sleepwalking to disaster. We could well follow the path of teams like Derby, Sheffield Wednesday and Sunderland into football oblivion.
I do not feel much optimism for the coming season. I would hope that we can correct the financial model as Tony Fernandes did at QPR, and possibly do it without relegation. But I think that scenario is no better than an even money wager.
Moshiri may have the money to save us, he may get the investment he craves, but these are all subjunctives and the indicative to me indicates a very troubled season.
112 Posted 20/07/2022 at
Correct me if I'm wrong but at least 6 of those teams (plus Sunderland by the way) have been relegated to third tier at least since they moved into those new stadiums.
113 Posted 20/07/2022 at
114 Posted 20/07/2022 at
I don't think that the move will bring us immediate success – but it gives us the best opportunity of being successful in the future and will give us reason to be very proud of the club again.
115 Posted 20/07/2022 at
116 Posted 20/07/2022 at
These are the clubs that we should be drawing comparisons with, the clubs that are well-established Premier League teams like ourselves. Dare I say the clubs who were at our level before we stood still with the progress of our club and watched them sail away ahead of us.
Everton is not Wigan, Boro or Bolton! New grounds or not, you think they are mainstays in the Premier League?
We are at Donald Trump levels of fitting "facts" to suit your arguments on some posts. But the one fact that the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock offers is extra income, closing the gap on the teams that are already making so much more than us and then buying our best player for a fee that's embarrassing.
117 Posted 20/07/2022 at
I was bemoaning that ticket pricing would not solve the financial problems we had back then. With 19 games of 40,000 fans = 760,000 across the season. Adding a ٟ to a matchday ticket would only increase revenue by 𧾰,000. It was just about enough for Mark Pembridge.
Sir Philip's response was that we only had 1,000 corporate seats and our competitors had at least 4,000 and very few executive boxes and it is why we are looking for a new stadium.
The stadium is all about corporate tickets, nothing more, nothing less.
118 Posted 20/07/2022 at
As others have alluded to, shit facilities, obstructed views and haven't we been selling obstructed view tickets for years at full price... please!
Wooden seats etc.
Yes, we've had our moments there but you count them on one hand. Also, it's given me the worst 3 seasons of my life 94, 97 and this one just gone. I'm convinced the place is cursed.
At least the move will give us a chance to watch the game in comfort with a panoramic view of everything. Maybe it might bring a change of luck, who knows?
I just hope that Albatross Kenwright is still not in situ when we finally do go. I'm not holding my breath, though.
119 Posted 20/07/2022 at
120 Posted 20/07/2022 at
I think what you overlook is both Spurs and Arsenal had pretty decent teams right up to their new builds, so arguably not in the perilous state of others you mention.
We have a crap team who are every inch relegation candidates and more in line with the poo clubs you mention. We need to spend but Benitez getting a few quid as a budget suggests the new stadium load has already hit home.
I vehemently disagree with comparing ourselves to Spurs and Arsenal – they are light-years beyond us and I think that's the problem.
121 Posted 20/07/2022 at
Not really the Everton way, but that's the reality.
But, let's look at other clubs - Newcastle £486, West Ham £465. Larger stadiums permit bigger attendances, more income from F&B, increased corporate hospitality revenue and the opportunity to use the stadium for events. But they don't guarantee hugely increased wealth for the clubs without success on the pitch.
I still agree with committing to BMD though, because without it we will have no opportunity to improve the club's wealth either on the pitch (where the team is poor) or off the pitch (with an aged stadium opened in 1892). It's the right commercial decision.
122 Posted 20/07/2022 at
IMO, we can have a good board of very clever and dynamic people. But, if the chairman of the board is unsuited to the role, the board will be unable to operate successfully. Therefore, foremost, I think we need to look at the chairman, not as an individual person but as a "chairman". The problem is possibly with the chairman and not the individual directors.
However, under normal circumstances, it is the job of the directors to select the chairman. Now there's a conundrum?
IMO, we need a new chairman. I like BK for his love of the club. But maybe he is a duck out of water. Perhaps he should be given an advisory role of some kind and the board should select a suitable chairman to oversee such a multimillion dollar organisation. He or she does not need to know anything about football but needs to know a lot about being a chairman!
123 Posted 20/07/2022 at
The stadium is an investment of long term benefit - with a heavy burden (and risk) across the earlier years. As you say, they don't guarantee "Game-changing" wealth; they improve efficiency and offer opportunity, and the support for the greater success that may come from the team.
124 Posted 20/07/2022 at
125 Posted 20/07/2022 at
126 Posted 20/07/2022 at
I do respect your views even if I don't agree with them. I think Spurs and Arsenal were looking to move grounds a long time before it actually materialised. They didn't wait until they had a good team.
It's part of the overall plan, like having a good academy, DoF, sponsorship, scouting, raising matchday income – all part of the plan to help put out a good team to support the manager and DoF.
We can't wait until we are playing well. Or keep gambling on expensive players to get us higher leauge placings. It's a long road but I'm willing to take it.
I think stability is now the key. I think the new DoF is a very positive appointment, even though some are willing to write him off already because he hasn't signed whoever the Daily Mail think he should sign.
I don't think a lot of supporters do understand the burden the stadium build will put on finances over the next few years, even after it's built. That's why I'm all for steady progress. I still think it is going to take a massive loan of some sort to finish.
If the repayments on it mean we have to sign more youthful players, like Patterson, Calvert-Lewin, and Mykolenko, rather than Tosun, Sigurdson, and Walcott, then is that a bad thing to have a new stadium fit for our fans?
127 Posted 20/07/2022 at
Good points well made
128 Posted 20/07/2022 at
129 Posted 20/07/2022 at
we're back on the Echo site - "Everton FC".
I reckon your email scared 'em :-)
130 Posted 22/07/2022 at
We are still not on the main banner. Shouldn't we kick up a stink?
131 Posted 22/07/2022 at
Yep, corectomundo, Barry, we might be joining them sooner than you think, and our stadium will be perfect for that level of football. I am not saying a new stadium will bring sucess but the old lady is sinking as fast as us. The new stadium will bring bigger profile, better income, and not just from football.
Also, I might be able to spend my hard-earned in the ground with my new trainers not stinking of piss after visiting our cesspit toilets after trying to clock in to the outdated turnstiles and missing the first 5 minutes of the fookin game.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.
How to get rid of these ads and support TW
1 Posted 17/07/2022 at
The simple fact is he has been let down by the people spending his money. Any decent CEO, Chairman or Board of Directors simply wouldn't allow an owner, regardless of his power and finances, to dictate transfer policy etc.
And therein lies the problem. The shambles at boardroom level indulges Moshiri.
The likes of David Dein, Peter Kenyon (I know), Martin Edwards etc just wouldn't have allowed a majority owner to interfere like Moshiri has. As a result, fortunes have been wasted and the club has gone backwards. But this is not Moshiri's fault – it's the people employed to protect his investment.
Moshiri will be remembered for delivering the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock and – in the age of FFP and Profit and Sustainability – it is our only hope. To demonise the man delivering it is insane.