Premier League — Matchweek 8

Richarlison starts for Spurs replacing Kulusevski, but it's an excellent strike from Thomas Partey-boy that puts Arsenal ahead.

Has he been forgiven or exculpated (uh) for his transgressions then?

Richy by all accounts had a good chance. The great from the good you could say.

Some finish that

Richarlison tumbles in the area - Penality coz he now plays for a Top 6 side. The VAR never even consulted.

Kane strokes it in.

Michael,

I was just about to post something similar. We have seen those decisions not given to many times at Goodison Park.

Red card for an ankle tap! Emerson Royale, a little bit off the pace, but not really that aggressive... honestly, the maimings we have seen from that bastard Van Dijk with no punishment.

(Shit, I'm starting to sound like Brian Murray!)

Red card for Royale, no different than the Van Dijk foul on Onana.

Michael. Ha ha what you trying to incinerate. Bias or no bias it's never ending what goes their way.

And Arsenal waltz through for a third, while Conte set to make a crazy five subs in one fell swoop! Richarlison among the replaced.

Looking at the Gooners and I think we were lucky the game was postponed the other week

James. Yes said at the time. Just a journey or test too much. The likes of West Ham Liverpool our level for now.

Conte has elaborated a bit more on the shockingly inconsistent standard of the refereeing in this country. Hopefully they don't castigate him, because it would definitely be more beneficial if they listen to him. #forthegoodofthegame!

True story.

Yesterday, I met a lovely couple (John & Collette) who had flown into Bristol from the Isle of Man and got the train down.

As we shared a drink and watched the Arsenal v Tottenham match prior to ours, the mild mannered John exploded in rage when that red card incident occurred and went into a very vocal and loud rant about Van Dijk's assault on Onana, complete with explicative remarks about him and our cousins.

A few minutes later, security are over and guess who get's collared because of a comlaint? Yes me. Warned about my behaviour and accused of spitting. I think I was about to get ejected, but I managed to talk the security people down.

@Brent Stephens, further fuel to me possibly being a football hooligan. Good to bump into you and your lad yesterday.

Getting less and less concerned about playing United next week.

Man United are being humiliated which is possibly bad news for us next week. God knows how many goals Haaland is going to get.

I see that big bloke who plays for Man City is at it again.

Nice job softening up them Red Devils for when we go at them next week.

His first (City's second) was another "How exactly do you defend to prevent that?" header from a corner.

There's the 4th, brilliant, made by Haaland.

Wow... Man Utd 4 down!

Depends whether they've decided not to play for another manager, Will. Let's hope so.

I know City are awesome but I really hope Manure have this same defence out next Sunday at Goodison.

Tony - and such losses can also be said to order up a battering for the next opponents etc.

United do look terrible though. Here's hoping.

And now some United "fans" leaving before half time!

Tom - could do with Maguire back in to make it even worse...

City are reaching the Barcelona level under Pep 2008-12. Scary

Tony, just noticed you alluded to the follow-on revenge battering above your previous post.

Will # 21. Varane has gone off with what looks like a badly twisted ankle. He was replaced by Lindelof, but if it weren't for illness, I think Maguire would have come on instead. Varane could be out for a few weeks with that injury, so Maguire could start next week against us.

Rob, the way he's playing lately, that's fine with me :-)

I cannot imagine enjoying a game more that doesn't involve Everton. This is better than a hot fudge sundae. With rum poured over it.

Very nice strike by Anthony.

Maybe our kid should just put 'Anthony' on his shirt next week?

A damned fine strike there.

Like I said, Dixie Dean's record under threat. Unbelievable.

Gerrin!

Fookin brilliant, that lad.

Another hat trick. Incredible. He's on pace for what, 70 goals?

If he stays healthy there isn't a record he can't break.

He is a phenomenon.

Records are there to be broken.

If he breaks it, he deserves it.

Mike, I think the pace will drop at some point, maybe an injury... I'm going for 39 league goals for the season. Guy's a robot.

Best you've ever seen ?

Sounds like a daft question seeing as he's only been here five minutes, but fuck me. He has to be up there.

Somebody needs to crock him before he threatens Dixies record

How many times are those given as "Dangerous play"?

Now a Foden hattie. Ridiculous.

Haaland reminds me of Jonah Lomu. Man against boys.

Effortless finish by Beetlejuice. Two hattricks, another world.

New manager turnaround not working for Man Utd 6-1

Dave, best natural finisher I've seen since Der Bomber. Add in the fact that he's twice Muller's size and one of the fastest players in the world, and he's the perfect goalscoring machine.

Is VAR meant to check for the ball being out of play for a possible throw in?

How embarrassing City bringing on all the subs like it's a friendly

Rob, just wondered, never seen that before.

If Man City can do this to Man Utd, what will they do to Southampton next week? We could be looking at double figures.

Kieran, good comparison. Mine would be Wilt Chamberlain.

Its Utd Rob, they are trying to give them all the help they can,
I have always wondered how far back you go after a goal is scored to deny it.

Who will get the match ball? Probably Haaland seeing as he got his hat trick first.

6-2. We officially now have the best defensive record in the Premier League.

...and that now leaves us as the lowest-conceding team in the league.

Rob, snap.

Lage sacked.

Way cool, Rob. Amazing what a little steel in the spine can do for you.

Wolves sacked Lage. Should've done it for letting Coady leave on loan. Still can't believe we managed that deal…

Kieran, they might want him back now :-O

Pen to United.

Rob

There you go Foden got it

Next, would like to see Crease Head get battered by Leeds, but we need it to be a draw.

Haaland can be football's Usain Bolt, Michael Jordan, Hibbo and Babe Ruth all rolled into one. The man/boy is a freak.

Turned over for the cricket, Kieran, so missed that. Probably because Haaland already has two, or is it three, I don't know?

Colin, you forgot Rubber Man. Only someone of Haaland's size could have got to that ball from De Bruyne... but men that size can't usually move, bend and stretch like that. Definite freak.

Mike.

Yes. Different type of player, but those two belong in the same bracket. The very top one.

He reminds me more of Ronaldo before he developed health issues – the buck-toothed Brazilian one.

He's some player, isn't he?

Rob,

Haaland got it then Gundongan nicked it off him and gave it to Foden but then as he was leaving the pitch Foden gave Haaland one of the other 15 balls.

Colin,

He's like Roy of the Rovers – remember him?

Some of the marking for Haaland's goals this season has been terrible, players too scared to get closer to him. He'd have been snapped in two in the '80s. Football is too soft nowadays. It's more or less a non-contact sport.

Who doesn't remember Roy of the Rovers, Kieran. He was my favourite player when I was a kid. 😉

Anyone watching the new Netflix series on now must see more than a striking resemblance between our Anthony and Jeffrey Dahmer, so maybe Gordon might be better playing with a pair of glasses on. It might even be a way to terrify most defenders!

Colin

I just Googled and learnt he finally retired in 1993 after losing his leg crashing a helicopter into the pitch. Sad end to a 40 year career

Dave (61), I wasn't too sure about Haaland but took a chance on him today, had 50p on him to score at any time!!

Tragic Kieran, just tragic.

Dave 68

I've met a few intrepid, even reckless, gamblers in my time, but you're out of control, mate!

Dave A, you headed down to the Rolls dealership off that bet?

Dave # 68. How much did you win, about 10p?

Kieran @63,

He reminds me much more of Wally Brand (ball of fire).

However, Wally had crosses coming in from "Limp Along Leslie", who reminds me of our own McNeil; not a great deal of pace but lots of tricks and a fine work ethic.

Finally confirmed: Wolves fire their manager. Lampard lucky we had a board that were willing to give him the chance, that is showing signs that it may have been the right decision.

Risky job a Premier League manager, have to have immediate success.

Dave @68,How relieved you must be,mate. The true gambler, and you are that, Dave, only bets what will hurt badly if it goes wrong. Cap doffed!!

Dave@68
You need help, mate.

Dave A, I am well impressed mate. Was the 50p actually yours or did you ‘borrow' it from family?

I bet you are feeling like Bill Gates tonight.

Roy of the Rovers, now there was a player, Bobby of the Blues wasn't bad either for Everpool.

Kieran, Will @53-54

‘Everton will have an option to buy the England centre-back at the end of the season.'
From the Press at the time, for £10-£12m

Watching him play and noting the attitude of Conor Coady reminds me of a taller version of Tim Cahill – even though they play in totally different roles...

Well, THAT'S one of the dumbest red cards I've ever seen.

Gerry, did he box the corner flag after his goal yesterday?

The announcers in America need to shut up about Coutinho. Jesus you'd think he's Pele or something.

No, wish he had because just that determination and serious love of winning the ball, scoring, etc.

They seem matched to perfection in attitude and love of the club... and geeing up others around them.

Ray @ 79:

Aware of the option, but not sure how fixed it is contractually, if price range pre-agreed etc. Will take a look for detail later.

"Later" – you're right about the price, Ray, 㾸 million. Apparently they can't recall him from loan at all, and the option to buy is fixed, which we can exercise any time between now and the end of the season.

Will #85, I just did a media scan and found one published mention (Express) that the Coady option is £12 million. No confirmation, and I can't find any other details.

God I wish Marsch was the USA Manager. I don't care how much TW hates him, he's a good manager. Actually knows what he's doing unlike the current USA Manager holding back the greatest wave of talent we've seen in a generation.

Mike, same price. What I got was from Wolves site, so it looks like the buy option is safe. Pretty sure we will if things remain the same.

0-0 ideal result for us. Good weekend.

Jamie, I thought you liked Ted Lasso?

Andy (73),

“Limp Along Leslie” – now you're talking Andy, he was a cracker, what comic was he in, The Wizard? I hope you are keeping okay Andy, I was trying to reply to your post last week but that page wouldn't come up when ToffeeWeb was down for most of the day, sabotage, I blame the over eighties!!

Haaland isn't just about the goals. His pass for Foden's second was superb.

Colin -

Funny thing. Everyone, and I mean everyone, tells me I'd love Ted Lasso. Never seen a single episode. On the to-do list, but not really overly excited about it.

Now insofar as Berhalter is concerned, I do NOT like him, never have, and can't wait for him to be gone. Marsch I like a LOT. I think he's a helluva coach, doing excellent jobs at multiple clubs, and presently fighting some weird English prejudice against Yank soccer folk and doing a pretty good job. I want him to succeed, and finish just under Everton every year. 😜

Jamie, if it's any comfort to you, I've never watched Ted Lasso either and, I also think Marsch is a good coach.

Jamie, no one has a “weird English prejudice” against Marsch because he's American. A lot of people just think he's a knobhead with his leaping round and pointing at his watch nonsense. He's another annoying Klopp-type manager with his histrionics on the touch line.

Jamie, sorry, but Berhalter has the best winning percentage of any USNMT coach in history. Highest goals per game, lowest GA per game, ever. He's won a Gold Cup and two Nations League titles and has absolutely dominated Mexico -- they can't beat him. He resurrected the USA program from the disaster of 2017.

Berhalter has also been responsible for a lot of our "wave of talent" -- he talked some of them out of playing for other countries (Musah/Dest/de la Torre and several US/Mexican kids) and developed others like Aaronsen, Robinson and Zimmerman.

No, he's not a very good game manager and I realize you don't like him and you think Marsch is some kind of youthful genius, but I haven't seen anything from Jesse that indicates to me he remotely has what it takes to lead a World Cup side. I do NOT wish he was USA manager. Maybe next cycle, after he proves he can handle bigtime pressure without going batshit on the touchline. To date he has proved absolutely zip.

Chris, I second that. I'm sick of the antics of klopp, Pep, mini-Pep, Marsch, Conte etc… Their aerobics on the touchline is getting boring now.

http://www.britishcomics.20m.com/gorgeous.htm

Just watched Match of the Day from last night, and in particular, the red card for Emerson Royal of Spurs.

It was interesting to hear Shearer say the red card was the correct decision, as it was a reckless challenge by Royal. Funny then, that he thought the reckless, over the top, possible leg breaker challenge on Onana by that dirty vile rat Van Dijk was only a mistimed challenge, and a yellow card was the correct decision.

What a gobshite Shearer is. I really cannot see any difference in the two challenges, and yet Anthony Taylor could, deciding one was a red card and one was not.

Rob, saw it, thought it, laughed at it. These morons aka pundits are all part of the Top 6 cartel.

God knows what Gabby Logan ever saw in that bald-headed geordie fuck. He's given 'boring' a whole new meaning.

Jamie

Marsch acts like spoilt kid. That's why I don't like him. Has nothing to do with his passport

Colin,

I honestly think if Taylor had sent Van Dijk off, he would have been lynched by the FA, and demoted to the Championship a few weeks. After all, it is not in the rules to send Saint Virgil off, is it?

The FA is corrupt as fuck, and I am honestly waiting for further punishment from them because of the knobhead who ran towards Taylor from the Street End after disallowing Coady's goal against the Red Shite.

And we now have the best defensive stats in the Premier League: 8 games and only 7 conceded.

If only we had a striker that could put the ball in the net.

We will get one, Geoff. Thelwell is to be trusted.

Another ludicrous decision in the Palace v Chelsea game. Thiago Silva only given a yellow card despite stopping the ball with his hands, and denying Palace a breakaway goal.

Okay, the Palace player was probably still about 35 yards from goal, but he had a clear run on goal. Another ridiculous decision in favour of one of the so-called Top 6 clubs.

Alan @98 Thank you. Dave A, have look at Alan's link or get Cameron to get it for you!!
Hope to see you some time soon!

Geoff # 103, that statistic tells me just how much Lampard matured as a coach last season.

Him and Thelwell are making a very encouraging fist of it.

I'm no longer yearning for transfer business, I'm more interested in seeing what we've got get into a good rhythm (and get Calvert-Lewin and Patterson back fit).

It was The Wizard, by the way, Dave. "What Leslie lacked in speed( he had one leg shorter than the the other) he more than made up for with skill and craft".
Warning! Early sixties comics do not read well today.

Regarding the potential breaking of Dixie Dean's record breaking 60 goals in a season. Something which, without doubt, nobody ever thought would be broken. Erling Haaland has so far scored 14 league goals in just eight league games. He is pretty much 25% of the way to Dixie's record, with around 80% of league games still to play.

Man City are scoring goals for fun at the moment, 29, with Haaland getting roughly half of them. So can City, and Haaland in particular, keep up this amazing streak of averaging 3.5 goals per game, with Haaland averaging just under 2 goals per game?

Dixie's record could be in serious danger this season, something which we all thought would stand forever. Still a long way to go though.

Dixie's record won't be beaten, I guarantee it.

Just read that our old friend Barkley made his first start yesterday for Nice against PSG. He was pulled after an hour. L'Equipe called him the 'flop' of the match and gave him a 3 out of 10. Ugly.

You can't guarantee it, Paul. Haaland is a magnificent footballer, has everything without that being a cliche. More than anyone. Simply sensational player.

I watched the game with my Man Utd father-in-law (from Eccles) and he thinks they're (Utd) garbage and can't stand the sideways stuff. Took it on the chin though, we all have fair play like.

One day, I just wish we could do that to Satan's mob over the road. Saw their game on MotD. Usual spawny deflections everywhere. Brighton should have been 4-0 up after 30 mins.

Compare that to City and Pep. Milner and Henderson. Just no way.

Mike 111,

Barkley is shite, mate, a pretender.

All this talk of Dixie's record potentially being under threat if Haaland keeps up his scoring, has it gone beyond Evertonians yet?

All the coverage I'm seeing from the media seems to be based on the premise that football started in 1992 and all the scoring records are held by Salah, Cole, and Shearer. It's about time people learn about Dixie and his achievements.

Steve

I've noticed the same. On Peacock today they referenced he was on track for 67 and then said “a premier league record.”

Not sure if they're just ill-informed or this is a marketing thing acting like the Premier League is like the Bundesliga and there was no proper professional league before it. Must be weird for Robbie Mustoe and Earle realizing the early years of their careers don't count.

On the plus side surely we can retire Souness as he never played Premier League.

Jamie,

Your boy Marsch says he is contacting the Premier League to complain that Aston Villa didn't play in an entertaining way. Leeds fans expect aggressive attacking play and from minute one Villa stopped them doing that. This following on from scolding Frank that “we are in the entertainment business.”

Does this guy have any concept of team sport tactics? Does he think he's Juergen Klopp and his team should be free to dive and cheat unimpeded? I hope the league laugh in his face.

He tried the same line on us, Kieran.

Bit like Klopp, he gets annoyed when teams adopt tactics that prevent him from winning.

Steve,

I know right what a fucking joke.

Kieran and Steve, thus my contention that Marsch is nowhere near mature enough to handle national team pressure. Maybe never will be.

Personally I think that if/when Berhalter departs after the World Cup, there are three Yanks (assuming we pick a homegrown honcho) who would be better replacements than Marsch.

Great nostalgic talk of Melchester Rovers.

Jesse Marsch may be a good coach, but he is fast becoming a very unlikeable character and sore loser. No-one likes losing but there is a difference between a sore loser and someone who can show sportsmanship, even in defeat.

Interesting comparison that, Gerry @80. I wouldn't say it myself but I think I know what you're getting at. Very different players, but influential and full of presence on the pitch that other players respond to.

I think someone has confirmed this for me previously, but Coady looks like a converted midfielder to me. His passing and distribution is mostly very good.

I think I've said this before too, but I thought Rodwell would have been better used in the back 4. But he went the opposite way and was converted into a midfielder. Even though no two players are exactly the same, I think that's a good comparison. In terms of style. I don't think Jack was ever going to have the same fire in his belly.

Who are they, Mike? Genuine interest.

Danny, my top choice would be Steve Cherundolo. 87 caps at right back for the USA, played 16 seasons in the Bundesliga, coached at Hannover for two years and right now has Los Angeles FC playing the most exciting brand of soccer in MLS. And he doesn't make an ass of himself on the touchline. Fiery but a complete, respected professional.

Just watching back the highlights of City v United, and had to smile at that penalty given at the end. I've heard it said that Michael Oliver, is the best referee in England. Say no more.

Paul #110, Nice bit of science there Paul, compared to Rob's Ostrich like approach at #109!

Regarding Jesse Marsch, and his “complaints” about Villa's tactics yesterday………….

“I will be speaking to someone from the league and [have] already spoken to the referees' committee, it's clearly a tactic. I feel bad for our fans, they have to watch that and they don't get an energetic game”

What exactly will he be saying? What exactly have Villa done wrong? The man is a total barm pot! I've never heard such garbage in all my life, unless it sprouts from Bingo's mouth.

I've been aware of him over the years, Mike. I believe he was also involved in the German national set-up for a while? Seems to be some connection between the Bundesliga and the US. I wish we would tap into that more than we do.

I watched that again this morning, Tony. Am I being cynical or was he helping United with the damage limitation on their goal difference?

He's a contender to replace Klopp, Rob. He'll fit right in over there.

The nasty men / wind / pitch didn't let us win approach to management!

I feel dirty for saying it, but I actually liked Gerrard's post-match response.

I have some leftover dishwater from this morning for my mouth.

Andy (108), surely I wasn't reading The Wizard in my early twenties!!

Yes, I hope to see you soon.

Regarding Marsch and his comments after the games this season, managers spout anything that will protect their position, so they either attack the way the opposition has played or blame some refereeing decisions and, on the odd occasion, criticize your own team's failings.

Their after-match comments are also there to placate their supporters and give them a reason as to why the team didn't win.

You very rarely hear a manager come out and say he picked the wrong side or adopted the wrong tactics as that, for most, would be like admitting they weren't up to the job.

So, I take all managers' immediate TV interviews with a pinch of salt, and despite what they say, results will determine whether they're sacked or not, and not what they say after games.

That's how it looked to me, Danny.

I've seen him give Man City two disgraceful penalties at The Etihad against Everton, when you consider some of the ones he hasn't given us over the years.

Does no one remember Bobby of the Blues who played for Everpool back in the ‘70s?

Mike -

Berhalter is absolute shit. He couldn't manage **fill in quip**. He's AWFUL in-game, and this nonsense that he's the most winning manger in US history?? He's played a BUNCH of cupcakes!!! He can't even beat Japan or Saudi Arabia, and his Mexico wins are against the WORST Mexican team I've seen in forever!

He's so, so bad it's not even funny.

I will never, ever forget listening to Counter Attack one evening driving, and Dunny actually found the stones to ask Berhalter a tough question when they were interviewing him. Berhalter had the nerve to reply, "Well let me ask you, what would you do?" Well, Greg you dolt, you're the fucking USA Manager, it doesn't matter what a talking head would do, answer the fucking question and stop thinking you're so clever!

Mike, I do not like him, his hire was a farce, he can't manage, and he will absolutely hold this team back.

Marsch, on the other hand, would do much better.

Rant over. Holiday World Cup not far off. Final 8 for the USA starting to look very unlikely thanks to Mr. Berhalter. If we don't get out of the group, he needs to go immediately.

Rob Halligan,

Marsch is trying to wind up other teams with his comments, as well as Villa, so they come out and attack and play right into his hands. You may not like it, but it's really that simple.

It's garbage, and it's meant to incite a reaction, ergo, it's not really garbage but a psychological tactic towards opponents. I'm sure you know this, but simply don't like it, fair enough.

Personally, I don't mind it at all. If a coach wants to criticize other teams and their style of play, they can. Villa are shit, they play shit, they have a shit coach, and if someone wants to point that out and say how boring and crap their football is, I'm all for it.

Mike @ 122,

Cherundolo is a great shout. I love the guy. Absolute class. If ‘snarky' puts you off, therefore discounting Marsch, Cherundolo is your guy.

I'd be 100% happy with that appointment. Hopefully Berhalter gets it right and we're not contemplating this come late December / January.

Jamie, by all means let a manager criticise an opposing team for the way it plays during a game, but for fuck's sake, complaining to the Premier League and the PGMOL is just a joke.

I assume he means the PGMOL anyway. They will just laugh in his face… if he's serious, that is. What exactly does he think the Premier League and PGMOL will reply with?

In defense of Jesse Marsche, it seems to me that American sports people are far more emotional and aggressive than us. They consider us to be too gentlemanly in our approach.

I don't personally like the man but I do think he has done a good job at Leeds, particularly following Bielsa, who everyone considers a god.

He seems deeply unpleasant. An ideal match for that lot and their fans.

Trying to instill an 'everyone against us' mentality is a risk in a league where stamina and measured intensity is key. I bet Marsche gets found out and by mid-season.

Jamie #132,

I think we'll be looking for a new USMNT boss in January either way, whether Berhalter gets it right in Qatar or not, just because transition is the natural order of things for national teams.

As for Marsch, it's not so much the snark as his total inexperience. He has never managed under any sort of pressure, and he's never had to build or set up a team.

Berhalter set up two entirely different teams to beat Mexico in the Nations final and then the Gold Cup final just seven weeks apart, and then a third different lineup for the World Cup qualifier, and won that too. Marsch couldn't remotely have pulled that off. Just doesn't have the nous.

I don't particularly like Berhalter's game managing either, but I love winning, and I love his recruiting, and I love watching Mexican fans cry.

Danny #126, the USA/Germany connection started in 1992 with a guy named Thomas Dooley. The US was desperate for decent players before hosting the '94 World Cup, and somebody had the bright idea to look for players who were children of US soldiers stationed in Germany, who wouldn't be good enough for Germany but could play for the US.

They found Dooley, who spoke no English but had won the Bundesliga with Kaiserslautern. He fit right in, was the US captain at the WC, and started a parade of German-born players into the USA side including David Wagner, Jermaine Jones, Fabian Johnson, John Brooks, Timmy Chandler and Julian Green. Klinsmann as manager kept the flow going.

The latest is 20-year-old Malik Tillman of Bayern Munich, currently on loan to Rangers, who played for Germany at youth level but was recruited to the USA by Berhalter this year. He should be a US star by 2026.

Is Jesse Marsch trying to emulate Ted Lasso?

Jamie (132), I agree re Marsch/Berhalter.

Marsch needs to knock off the sideline histrionics, though. He's been a manager long enough to know better.

Ed, I guess I gotta watch Ted Lasso.

Jay,

I disagree. American sports people are not more passionate as, if they were, they'd have normal identifiable physical and vocal reactions.

Instead, they do these pantomime routines, bouncing up and down, posturing. The weirdest one is when they do this angry routine where they shake theirs violently as if they have a seizure while yelling directly in someone's face.

All their routines are derived from standard set-pieces well known to fans of wrestling. Anyone who was as angry as they pretend to be wouldn't be doing these comical faces and bouncing around like a toddler – they'd be cussing and taking a swing.

It's all second-rate theatre based on fake sports like wrestling or sports that don't evoke real passion so they camp it up. It's embarrassing.

Yep. As Oliver Reed said, it is the silent man who is the dangerous man.

Thanks for that, Mike. It makes sense.

Although not a direct link, it randomly made me think of Lewis Holtby. Born to an RAF serviceman and German mother who grew up in Germany and was German in terms of nationality. Maybe dual, but he only ever represented Germany at national level. His dad was apparently an Evertonian and he was too by all accounts.

A move to Everton never came off despite many inevitable links, but looking back, neither did the English league for him; he didn't really hit it off.

Rob 109

Regarding Haaland and Dixie's record, can you imagine Haaland's headed goal yesterday and it being a casey of Dixie's day? He would have been carried off and probably missed the rest of the season with severe permanent concussion.

These days, the modern footballer would not have had the leg strength to even cross a casey – never mind head the bloody thing.

John,

Mention of those older footballs raises a question.

In these recent times of increasing talk of brain injury to footballers – and since most apparently affected are from careers of the '60s onward – one wonders how all the previous players were seemingly not afflicted?

I remember him, Danny. Isn't he still playing somewhere? I think he was still at Blackburn as recently as a couple of years ago.

So I was getting somewhat pissy about Marsch not wearing the suit but damn – Ten Hag can't even be bothered to wear socks to The Etihad.

At least he didn't wear those tennis cutesy socks with the cotton ball in back. Better not be wearing slippers next Sunday.

Will,

I know the coroner said repetitive heading had caused Jeff Astle's brain damage, but I don't think heading has been fully found to cause brain damage.

I understand there is an increase in risk but nothing as of yet officially shown a positive link between heading and dementia or brain damage.

I suppose, like many things, some footballers will in later life suffer dementia or brain damage, just like non-footballers.

It would be interesting to know, on average, how many times a footballer actually heads the ball during a game? Not a glancing header but an actual full-blown full-power on-the-temple header.

John #146.

The only thing worse than a casey of yesteryear was a soaked casey. Those things just absorbed water and sometimes felt like trying to kick a medicine ball.

John,

I can't say I've properly studied figures and research, but am aware of increasing discussion, claims, speculation, plus talk of steps to reduce heading in the game, even banning it for children.

Seems a recent phenomenon like many other things, and I've seen nothing to say it has an historical background... but growing weight to the discussion.

Rob – never mind the kicking, remember heading them, followed by the stars and bells? Plus a particular favourite, blocking a cross with the inner thigh on a freezing Saturday morning.

Looks like Rodgers getting off the hook so far...

Nottingham Forest and their 23 new signings in big danger of going straight back down. Hope they inserted a relegation clause in all those contracts.

Is that what it ended up at, Tony - 23? That's essentially imported disruption.

That guy will be the next Pozzo.

If you wonder why the VAR is a joke and football has been bent for a life time, then check out Dermit Gallagher's explanation of the Spurs sending off vs Van Dijk's challenge in the derby.

They literally just make it up to suit the opposition.

Will, just checked it up, 22 new signings at a cost just short of £150 million.

Tony, a variation of our giddy early forays into the "Big" time. Looking like we got out the other side. Not so sure Forest will.

It does feel like football just courts controversy since it has been taken over by television, Ian B. I watched that clip earlier, but although my outrage is slowly diminishing, my feelings for football are also sadly diminishing because the game is simply not straight.

Gallagher sounded like he was in court, when he was contradicting himself because on one hand he was saying Anthony Taylor has learned from the Van Dijk incident, even though he still thought that he had made the correct decision in only giving him a yellow card. 🤷‍♂️

If the VAR has created an illusion, then it's most definitely being helped by these pundits, 100%.

Forest a shadow of the side that played us. We really dodged a bullet with Lingard, he is atrocious.

Dennis just come on and he doesn't look that good either.

Will #152, correct. The research is ongoing but no final conclusions have been reached. However, the concern is large enough that most youth leagues in the US have banned heading for smaller kids whose brains are not yet fully formed.

John #150, the statistical answer is about 4-6 per game for top centerbacks. (FYI our old friends Distin and Jagielka are the career Premier League leaders for headed clearances, over 3000.) But the issue isn't the game headers, it's practice. I know I used to do sets of 20, three days a week, and my head would throb afterwards. Pros do a lot more.

Regarding head injuries, in America you can't head a ball U12 and under - play immediately stops on any headed ball and the opposition is awarded a drop at the spot of the headed ball.

My youngest is now U13, and I don't miss the "don't head it" rule to be honest. I totally understand the purpose of the rule! But my cynical side says it's implemented by US Soccer to dodge lawsuits, not actually protect the kids. But I'm a very, very cynical person the older I get, so take that with a massive grain of salt.

Excessive heading, like smoking; if you're prone towards cancer or dementia, obviously will not help your case.

Should it be banned? I hope not... but where do you stop with 'dangerous' passtimes?
Probably needs proper regulation for kids' football – but when do you scale it up?

Mike @ 139 -

Paragraph 1 - You're probably correct.

Paragraph 2 - Marsch is now Manager of Leeds - in the Premier League, best league in the world - and took over for Bielsa. I'd say he knows a thing or two about pressure now. And if experience is a main metric, that discounts Cherundolo!

Paragraph 3 - Those Mexican teams were shit. And if Berfaulter is such a great tactician, how do you explain Japan? He KNEW they'd press high, did NOTHING about it, made ZERO adjustments, and we looked absolute shit. He then followed that up with a stellar 0-0 draw against the mighty Saudi Arabia. Not exactly comforting stuff going into the World Cup! If ANY team presses us high and we simply demand on playing it out of the back with Zimmerman, who's a damn good player, just not fancy-Dan play-it-out-of-the-back type of CB, we'll lose. He doesn't adjust, he doesn't learn, he's more infuriating than any stubborn, clueless manager I've ever seen. I hope to every single thing that is holy on this earth or in heaven / Valhalla, that I'm wrong. The USA could be, in my opinion, a final 8 team! I feel with Skinny B at the helm we'll be lucky to get out of the group. I despair, and hope to heck I'm wrong.

Paragraph 4 - There's nothing better in soccer than the diving Mexicans whining after a loss. Hate that team, hate the Mexicans (footballing!!!! as a people they're brilliant. Gotta watch the folks ready to pounce on comments taken out of context here on TW!!!), and I hope they absolutely crash and burn this World Cup. I can't root for them, ever. Don't care about CONCACAF legitimacy, if Mexico is the last CONCACAF team in the World Cup, I will root like hell against them every single time. I detest the way they play footy. They dive constantly, can't ever take a tackle, play the dark arts constantly, and will slyly try to break your leg and then be like, "What? Me? No, no, no my bad I'd NEVER do anything like that." Hate them worse than the Yankees and Liverpool. They're probably number one on the most despised sport team in the Crowley book. Play like cheating little shits wearing skirts. Now go call the PC police with that last sentence.

I'm still haunted by the memories of playing for the school team aged 10.

I was the Anthony Gordon of the junior school. Our goalie - a Big Nev at 10 - would wellie the sodden, mud-caked casey into the stratosphere. I used to pray its re-entry to earth wasn't on my side of the pitch.

You were expected to head it, and more often than not, mistimed, it boomed off the top of my skull. It was like a gong going off in the brain.

Fully support the kids not heading it.

The modern player has it easier heading the ball than players in Dixie's era and later.

I was playing at full-back for the school in the early '50s that included a lot of heading the ball, sometimes off the line when someone had blasted the ball at the goal. Yes, players did not hit the ball as hard as they do today but that leather ball soaking wet and especially if you head it where the laces were, my head was ringing... But, as my dad used to say, where there is no sense there is no feeling.

In regards to Nottingham Forest, I remember Don Hutchinson saying, how can you possibly form a settled team after signing all them players, who were most probably told they were for the first team when they signed.

Jamie #165, no PC police necessary. I played 20 years in the Latino leagues in San Francisco and my last three seasons in an all-Mexican league in Del Norte, with the guys helping me out when I was sick. I still wear the Mexican club shirts I got there.

BUT... there is nothing better in the world than having our gringos humiliate the sniveling El Tri and especially the contemptible Mexican national team fans with their urine-throwing and homophobic chants.

And Berhalter has crushed 'em.

I don't care if Mexico is putting out an old-folks lineup, three straight crucial wins and a draw in Azteca is WAY better than we have ever done before. Mexico was still fielding a bunch of top internationals, and Skinny B's game plans were flawless in all four matches. 3-1-0. You can't take that away from him.

And you mentioned Zimmerman -- guess who brought him into the 11 when he was still a complete unknown? Berhalter. The man finds players and develops them. Can't deny that either.

Yes, the Japan and SA games were shit, and it was Berhalter's fault, and his tactics are frequently crap. But this is still the best USMNT we've ever had, and he built it.

And when he leaves in January, and Marsch is sacked in May, who knows, you might get just what you want!

Bill & Tony,

I remember those old leather balls. If you wanted to bend it, it was much easier on the inside of your foot – kind of like a golf chip, more about the height and angles.

When later we started using these modern balls, it was a different story – just hit it with the outside of your foot lightly and you can bend it like Beckham. I feel more skill was involved in the old soaking-wet leather balls

I never had the pleasure (I guess that's what you call it) of playing with a leather ball. It has reminded me of my comic reading childhood and Billy's Boots for some reason.

Interesting points on the US-Mexican rivalry. I hadn't realised it was so strong. I wouldn't worry about the PC Police. This side of the Atlantic can hardly take the moral high ground with regards to some of the sentiment expressed in the chanting at Germany and the Republic of Ireland.

And let's face it, we are hardly saints when we give our opinion on the cousins!!

Forest looked very poor last night. I know that team's forms will fluctuate, but they made a Leicester team who had made a bad start look good. I suppose it gives Brenda breathing space.

If I was a betting man (I'm more the person who puts a pound each way on a horse because I like the name), then I think two of those relegation berths will be taken by Bournemouth and Forest. Not that we have to worry about that.

Now I'm being subject to the BBC report on tonight's Champion's League fixture starting with a show of the Shankly sign followed by the Dalglish stand (a player I still regard as the best British one I've witnessed by the way).

Liverpool and Rangers too as the Everton song goes.

Jamie,. . . . . more than Liverpool????

Call yourself an Evertonian 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 😉

Brian,

It could have been Royston!

Getting back to that bellend Marsch. What an odious piece of work he is. In 3 of their home games he's complained about the opposition wasting time.

Us, Wolves and Villa. You're Leeds, pal, not Man City or Arsenal.

And actually after the game at Leeds didn't MotD do a piece where they said the ball was in play more than any Premier League game played this season (up til then). So shows how much he knows, the man is a Grade A gobshite.

He'll spend most of this season in the stands and not in the dugout if he carries on whingeing. Him and them cavemen Leeds fans are a match made in heaven.

Going all over the map here...

If you're looking for recent posts that are not about this week's Premier League games, they've probably been moved to the Chatroom.

Oh, and I suppose we're going to be inundated with Kloset Kopites tonight, going on about fucking Liverpool...

I know, I'll just crash the server!!

Michael (176),

The chatroom is not opening up for me, still getting page not found 404, return to home page, been like that since ToffeeWeb had a nervous breakdown last Friday.

Had no luck with your advice on getting the Harrogate v Everton U21s game either.

Hope I have better luck with Liverpool v Rangers, I'll let you know later!!

Total random.

Watching Paul Heaton on BBC Breakfast (I know I shouldn't watch it).

Quality music throughout his career. A real talent.

Rotterdam or anywhere, Liverpool or Rome. A secret Evertonian? If only we'd had the chance to get to Rome.

I met a really nice Mexican guy in a bar in Venice on Wednesday evening.

The conversation inevitably turned to footy, the 1970 World Cup primarily, and I explained to him in English and a smattering of Spanish how England would have won it if only they had sent the entire Everton team.

He wasn't too familiar with Everton but I rectified that, and showed him a photo of my two grandsons (8 and 6) in their kits standing next to the Holy Trinity statue pre-match a few weeks ago. He was very impressed, loved the kit (the full Blue) and is now a certified Evertonian.

As an aside, he showed me a photo of his two grand-daughters (5 and 7, beautiful) and we shook hands on marrying them off with the two lads. There'll be a bit of explaining to do when I get home but my son will understand.

Brilliant, Peter.

Titian liked his Blues.