Best Premier League transfer: Cahill or Coleman?

Seeing Tim Cahill mentioned made me think of the story that popped up around the time of Frank Lampard's appointment, claiming Cahill would take up some unspecified role at the club after he had apparently put in a good word for the Cockney fella.

If he was offered, he apparently turned it down with no more said.

I know he's a frustrating winger who can drift in and out of games and he doesn't score double figures, but, he's been an absolute steal for the money. Especially when you consider what we've wasted over the last 6 years!

If you are at a club for 10 years, there will be many more who didn't have the same impact.

Loved Tim as a player, immense!

For sheer value and the contribution to our club, Coleman has to be the better transfer.

Fine player, top man who has demonstrated that decency, integrity, will and humility are qualities that can be part of what makes a highly paid Premier League footballer.

Your use of the word "humility" is crucial. Humble, not in some creeping sense, but self-possessed and self-aware. If you've got that in your club and your team, then you have a chance.

Nigel Martyn. How I wish we'd have got him first time around when he wanted Everton but we didn't show the ambition, so he went to Leeds.

Phil Neville. Not the greatest, but his presence was missed when off the pitch. A key component of that Moyes team.

The next morning, on the way over to Ireland on a Ryan Air flight, they boarded early alongside other families with young children. My son found himself standing beside Seamus and as they discussed the previous evening, Scott was struck by how genuinely gutted Seamus was with the result.

Having lived in Australia for 21 years, we love Timmy The Blue Kangaroo but my vote has to go to the Ryan Air using Seamus. One of us and not a private jet in sight.

Really, it was just a reduction of the Football League Division One by 2 teams and is just a branding that has been forced onto football fans to believe that is when football in this country started. If anything, the old Football League was harder to win.

Anyways, that's just my viewpoint - it was a simple rebranding for a lesser, more expensive product!

I still haven't got my head around the Fourth Division 4 now called League Two!

It's Barry - Brian Williams is another poster.

Well, cheers for the info - which makes the change over to the Premier League from the old First Division even more farcical.

The Championship!!!???? Champions League – with lots of non-champions partaking!!!????

Daft.

Good suggestion... but I suspect The Mirror might say Southall's transfer from Bury to Everton was back in 1981, and well before the Premier League era.

Barry @14 & 16,

Your frustration re the Premier League era is entirely understandable. But I believe it was perhaps a little more than simply rebranding.

I think it was more of a power grab by the First Division clubs, with Everton very prominent amongst the agitators at the time. And a need for money, mainly from TV revenues that were rapidly increasing in the late 80s, in part needed to upgrade stadiums in light of the Taylor Report.

Plus the willing support of the FA who weren't best of pals with the Football League at the time. It's a little scary to read how close they came to setting up a Super League of around 10 clubs but it turned out they needed the votes of the other First Division clubs for Greg Dyke's grand plan to succeed.

There is irony about your point on needing money to upgrade stadia in the late 80s. Aside from an extended plastic roof over the Gwladys Street, seating and removal of "the ledge" and an uninspiring, unambitious replacement Park End Stand, it's still very much the Goodison I visited as a child.

And I still can't get served at half time. Maybe that's my bad.

We all love the Grand Old Lady and a lot of us will be devastated when she makes her final bow. But most big clubs have moved on. We will do so soon with mixed emotions. Sentiment for the past. Optimism for the future.

I think after Goodison, the next last standing traditional major ground as the pundits like to refer to must be Elland Road?

Back on thread. Thomas Gravesen?

Tim Cahill, what can I say? I remember when he scored that goal against the Netherlands in the World Cup, I think it won goal of the tournament, if it didn't it should have. I must have watched it 20 times and I still go "Wow!"

Seamus, great player, great buy, great club man, just great. Proud of him as a man. But for impact and commitment, it would have to be Tiny Tim...

Closely followed by Kevin Campbell with his nine goals in eight games ( or vice versa, I can't remember) who pretty much single-handedly kept us in the Premier League.

Cheers for the info - I recall Everton being behind the push for a 'premier league', but cannot remember the push for a Super League - probably blanked it out. If Everton were in favour of that it makes our indignation at the push for a European super league a tad hypocritical me thinks - though different times and circumstances possibly.

Make me mad to see the 'punishment' that was dished out over the European Super League and how quick the negative press disappeared too!

Bainesy is a great call as well, but I seem to remember he cost the staggering sum of ٤ million, which takes him a bit beyond the bargain-shelf rating of Seamus and Tim. (I'm kidding about the "staggering" part.)

And Lee #2 is spot on as well. Give him a few more productive years at the club, and Gray is going to look like an absolute steal.

Sean #22, not sure Campbell counts, because those heroics were while he was on loan to us. We didn't actually buy him until that summer.

I knew Big Nev's transfer wasn't in the Premier League era but wanted to offer an all-time Everton option. As further posts confirmed, a few agreed too.

Secondly, I know we didn't actually buy Rooney but he turned out pretty good too.

Everton were one of the so-called 'big 5' responsible for pushing for the formation of the Premier League but it's the first I've heard of talk of a Super League of 10. Do you have any links for evidence of this?

Danny. After the move to all-seater stadiums post-Hillsborough, grants were available to help with the cost. As usual, Everton missed out as they already had seats on all four sides and weren't eligible.

Cahill all day long for me!

I'd agree with Tony on Cantona. If there is truth to the legend, he supposedly saved Ferguson's hash at Man Utd.

I'd lean toward Cristiano Ronaldo, though. 㾸.25 million for the prodigy sensation turned superstar by age 22. And just as English football was expanding its global market, United has this 6'-2" pretty boy, walking highlight reel as promotion for the club. Lots of goals. Lots of silverware and 㿼 million in when he leaves.

A steal.

And an honorable mention for Kante to Leicester. They don't come close to winning the Premier League without him. In for ٤-8 million. Leicester top the league and then get 㿊-32 million end of the season from Chelsea. Leicester goes to the quarterfinal in the Champions League next season, earning approx 㿲 million more.

Talk about good business.

However, in terms of price (㿞k) and subsequent monetary value, Seamus Colman has to be the 'winner' over all mentioned in the article, doesn't he?

I hoped nobody would notice... lol!

Yes, I was rather taken aback when I read that. I don't recall it at the time and it turns out that was in 1988, so a couple of years before the ultimate demise of the old First Division, but definitely a significant part of the build-up.

This article I found is from Reuter's as published in the New Straits Times, and probably other papers too:

Super Ten Losing Ground – Rebel clubs likely to abandon plan after High Court injunction

It includes a quote from Everton Chairman Sir Philip Carter, and shows there was plenty of opposition to the Super League idea that was being driven by the quest for a bigger share of the greater TV revenues. Nothing really changes...

How ironic that neither won anything – sums up Everton's Premier League experience.

Andy Gray? Iconic and changed the mood of a club on the brink – even though it felt far from it in December 1983.

I think if you can go back through Everton's history, then their best transfer business was signing Dixie Dean from Tranmere in 1925. With him, Everton won the league in 1927 and Dixie scored 60 league goals that season.

They were surprisingly relegated in 1930, but are unique in what they did as they came back as Champions in 1931 and then won the league and the following season won the FA Cup – no club has done that since.

Howard Kendall? Not only for coming to Everton over Shankly, but that it created the Holy Trinity and led to a bond that saw him come back as manager to win trophies.

I actually watched him play when he had that brief period as player-manager. I always remember him screaming at Peter Eastoe, just in front of me in the Gwladys Street. Very commanding figure.

It was about 1981 (winter) and I didn't think he was particularly great, but I was taking my Dad's word for it that he was fantastic.

Johnny Morrissey was a player who could tackle, pass, dribble, centre a ball onto Joe Royle's head, and if anyone wanted to start trouble on the field, Johnny was ready for it, You never saw Tommy Smith start his bullying with Morrissey.

Yes, even Jack Charlton shied away from him with his infamous little book of revenge as he freely admitted. Or was it Norman Hunter? Nonetheless, the Holy Trinity had a fourth really.

I thought your favourite was Bobby Collins!

Yes absolutely, Bobby Collins. Bobby was the best player I ever saw play for Everton, but Johnny was one of my favourite players along with TG Jones who I saw through the eyes of a very young boy, although there are quite a few on that list.

My all time favourite, but definitely not one of the best was Dave Hickson who was nearly everyone's favourite in that promotion-winning team.

Getting off now, Chris, I can see Michael Kenrick tearing his hair out!!

If Collins was that good and influential, why did we let him go to Leeds? Just asking.

You and I were both lucky enough to have seen Bobby Collins, who was a terrific player, when you think how brutal it was to play where Bobby played and being only 5ft-4ins but never shied away from a 50-50 ball. Catterick sold Bobby to Leeds, and the following season Bobby was voted PFA Player of the Year.

Catterick replaced Collins with Denis Stevens from Bolton a neat and tidy player but for me not in the same class as Bobby.

Brian Murray I don't know why Catterick sold Collins maybe getting a bit older was the reason and we went on to win the league with Stevens so I guess Catterick was right.

I can only surmise that Harry Catterick thought he was getting a very good price for Bobby after 6 years excellent service for the Blues, plus Bobby was his own man and wasn't afraid to argue back with anyone including Catterick.

I'd say Harry made a big mistake in selling Collins, who proved how big a mistake it was with the way he played for Leeds United for the next few years.

Ask your older brother what he thought of Bobby Collins. For me, he dragged a very poor team up from the bottom of the First Division, the very bottom up to the heights of that league.

He was sold with them ready to win the Championship, he made that team play, he wouldn't stand for any slackness and gave 90 minutes in any game he played and demanded that the rest of the team did the same.

Yes I liked Dennis Stevens but he didn't have Bobby's class, but he did have Bobby's will to win and was a solid team player.

Everton winning meant more to him than any personal honours and he had a lot of the crowd on his back for quite a while until he won plenty of them over with the way he played.

A phenomenal competitor and impervious to the massive inferiority complex players have bestowed upon them when playing for Everton Football Club. He often brought more than a knife to a gunfight.

I agree completely he was a solid team player, you are right when you say he had a lot of the crowd on his back. I remember his debut and he was roundly booed by quite a few that day, not something I agree with. It wasn't his fault Collins was sold but, for a while, many viewed it that way.

Best stop as some of the younger posters will say coming on T/W is like watching Dad's Army.

I have vague recollections of seeing Bobby Collins play but I think he was sold the year before we won the old 1st Division title. I was a nipper then! I remember the following season and everything since!

Tough as nails the wee man was. Mind you, he was little by comparison. I seem to remember him like a terrier chasing down and taking some awful tackles when Alehouse players were told to take him out... they never succeeded.

I like to think the younger generation can take something from my middle-age ramblings. It's not preaching, it's the passing of experience, knowledge and, being an Evertonian, the pain.

I take pride in seeing these young Evertonians home and away displaying as much passion as I did as a youngster. Only it was easy for me. I have more respect for them than I do for myself. They deserve the utmost respect for their dedication and loyalty.

Everton forever. Regardless of generation.

As for Bobby Collins, see Alan Ball, Howard Kendall Gary Lineker and Wayne Rooney. All let go far too early although for different reasons maybe.

I can guarantee you would have loved Bobby Collins, same as the Celtic, Everton, Leeds and any other teams fans that Bobby played for did. A thorough professional footballer who was physically and mentally strong on the football field and off it.

A little story to illustrate the man, I doubt if he realised how good he was and how well known he was in Liverpool after just a few short months, I was coming out of the Forum Picture House (cinema) and I saw Bobby waiting for someone, I stopped and was staring at him because I knew exactly who he was, he gave me one of those stares that said, “Who the fuck are you looking at?“

A lady then came and stood by him, think it was his wife so I never went over and explained the situation!!

John Moores was instrumental in Bobby leaving. There was a lot of stuff in the Echo at the time. He accused Bobby of not trying, which for Bobby was the supreme insult. Catterick went along with Moores, who didn't like people disagreeing with him.

He was the great competitor, and Colin Harvey and he had a spat, when he accused Bobby of going over the top during a training session.

Both great players.

One of my older bros named (like us all) after an Everton player. Anthony Robert Colin. Me after Labby and so on.

Couldn't quite swing the argument of Gwladys as a name for my daughter but you can't win 'em all.

Yes, I imagine that wouldn't have gone down very well with Bobby!!

Regarding training, I remember a story where John King was accused of going in too strongly on another player in training and Bobby jumped to his defence saying he was playing as we do in league matches, just get on with it.

Bingham said he was the most aggressive player he ever saw. “He'd have kicked his granny”!

A lot more than that though. The Little General!

It was strange how he and Kenny Dalglish both started with Glasgow Celtic with both being of the “wrong” religion. I read a story in which Bobby's dad was “glassed” at Ibrox Park in a derby game there.

I think Bobby came down to Everton as a very young teenager but went back to Glasgow as he was homesick.

I've read on this thread many things I agree on, but I feel for value and experience signings were also Nigel Martyn and a few years earlier Paul Power (but yes that's years ago).

I read about Bobby coming down as a kid, and being homesick. Same thing happened with Roy Vernon I think. He certainly came to Everton as a kid, at least for a trial. Both must have been pretty small as kids, and they weren't so big as adults!

Played great together for a short time.

Never got all that sectarian stuff, Dave. Certainly never saw or heard it about football.

But there was a line in ‘In My Liverpool Home' which went

The Green and the Orange have battled for years,
They gave us some laughs and gave us some tears.

And Pete McGovern wrote that in about 1959.

Agreed. Lescott was outstanding for Everton in every game he played. Except for his last one of course.

He comfortably slots in next to Jagielka as our greatest Premier League centre-back pairing.

As for the debate between Tim and Seamus, I would have to go for Seamus. Bought for a ridiculous sum of money in the Premier League era and still a loyal servant after all these years.

The sectarian stuff happened certainly away from football on Merseyside but it is still rife today, I think, in Glasgow with Celtic and Rangers fans.

Growing up in Liverpool, I don't think it happened between Liverpool and Everton fans because we were a mixture of both religions supporting both teams.

Away from football, there was a divide on certain times of the year and some of it was very close to the area you were born into. Happily, those days are long gone.

Cahil was a better player, but as a midfielder / forward / striker that should be expected.

I think we dispensed of Cahil too early in his career. Some of his international goals after he had left proved what a top, dedicated, professional player he still was.

People won't like it. But.

Lukaku was world class when we sold him in 2017.

Lineker was world class when we sold him in 1986.

Other than Southall. They are the only world class players that we've had on our books since Alan Ball.

Whilst Reid, Sheedy and Steven were probably the best of our outstanding team of the 1980s, none of them were world-class.

That's my recollection as well. My family was RC, but my Dad's father was Protestant, and he was Everton from young. He was born in 1883, and went to Goodison in the 1890s, when it was still new.

He took my dad, when he was 6, in 1916, so a wartime game. He died in 1917, and his mother, who was from Derry, brought him up RC. So Everton bit before Catholicism did. They lived in Everton, until 1942 when they got bombed.

It was more family affiliation than religious. He took me when I was 6, I took my sons, and then my grandson. Nobody was given a choice though.

But yes it was there alright, and he told me a few stories about what went on round 12th July when he was a lad in the 20s and 30s.

One of the best players, who I really enjoyed watching in a bleak time was Peter Beardsley. We sold him to Newcastle for more than we paid Liverpool for him! So good business and some good football in a time when it was scarce at Goodison.

However! Neither pulled up enough trees to attract the attention of the big boys and both played a significant part in our long-standing embarrassing record at the homes of the Top 5.

Wonderful professionals? Yep, all day long; were they top drawer? For me, if we are looking for real value for money, and from a purely business angle, there can only be one winner.

John Stones wasn't the most popular player we have ever had. In fact, his attitude and approach to the game made him deeply unpopular among a large section of the fan base. He wouldn't listen. He was going to do it his way and to fuck with the consequences.

That said. Stones had skill to burn. He probably didn't deserve to have more skill than our two heroes but he did. Despite his flaws and his relative unpopularity, he put in enough classy performances to attract attention from the very top managers and clubs.

I completely understand why people will throw the names of more respected and loved servants into the mix but, after add-ons, we made about 㿙-50M on Stones.

If we are talking about value, then, for me at least, the signing of John Stones turned out to be Everton's best bit of business since Sky invented the game.

We have had some great players over the years with my personal favorites being Royle, Kendall, Dave Thomas, Duncan McKenzie, Colin Todd (ruined by Lee), Big Nev, Sheedy, Steven, Ratcliffe, Lineker, Bracewell, Reid, Sharp, Kanchelskis, Distin, Barry, Baines, Pienaar, Arteta, Cahill and Coleman.

Seamus for me is the bargain of the century given the level of football he had been playing. Great man who was forced to play on too long due to the inefficiency in our squad.

I'd add Kanchelskis to that list as well.

Probably one of the greatest finishers in the Premier League. Still a little raw when we sold him but even then a terrific footballing brain which became even more evident when his pace slowed a bit after the age of 30.

Much like Alan Ball in his stature and football brain not to mention his fiery temperament in his younger days.

I still am awed at some of Rooney's goals when they are re-run on TV and, much like Shearer, Cantona, De Canio and George Best, you can never tire of seeing them.

I loved Kanchelskis and thought he was excellent.

However, I don't think he was World Class. His international record was average and when he played in Serie A he went to a decent enough club and didn't achieve much at all.

He had a 2 season spell in the Premier League where he was phenomenal at Man Utd and Everton. But the Premier League then was vastly inferior to Serie A which was the world class league. And on that basis. He turned up there and did nothing and not much after that at Rangers. So no. Awesome for us. But not world class

It's debatable whether he could play at a higher level but still remarkable that a 㿨k punt carved out a career in the Premier League, albeit at a non-challenging club.

To your point, I'm a total British mongrel. Second generation Liverpool Irish Catholic on my Dad's side. On my mum's side a Belfast-born Protestant Grandfather who settled initially in Garston, moved to Speke and then eventually Anfield. A Grandmother from Glasgow who landed in Speke for her sins. I am literally all over the place!!

Dave Cashen, good shout on John Stones. You could see the talent from early doors. Top players have that arrogance about them. We often mention Peter Reid. A total nark if players didn't meet his standards, he let them know. The older generation from me will refer to Alan Ball. Not afraid to point out the odd mistake by all accounts.

Tommy Carter @60. How dare you. Kevin Sheedy walks on water. He could feed 5,000 with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fishes.

To think of players we had way past their best, Gascoigne, Ginola and even Mark Hughes for about 5 appearances, but he still had a footballing brain.

My dad said we were a real pan of Scouse!

Like you and a huge proportion of the population of Liverpool

Rooney is a possibility for me.

He was certainly world class at Euro 2004. I don't think we saw the best of him at Everton that season prior though. Mainly because Moyes didn't really know how to use him in that second season.

Sadly, Coleman, with every appearance he makes now, ruins his legacy, probably an unpopular view but he is slowly becoming a wage thief like Hibbert.