Frank Lampard: It's where we're at in reality

12/12/2022 201comments  |  Jump to last

With the last Everton players returning home from the World Cup in Qatar, and just a fortnight left of the break before Premier League football resumes on Boxing Day, here is Frank Lampard's assessment of where the team finds itself. 

Everton suffered a depressing slump in form before the break, now sitting one place and one point above the relegation zone, and are faced with a massive home game against Wolverhampton Wanderers to get their campaign swiftly back on track going into the New Year. 

Lampard discussed the team's situation as he saw it while they were away on tour in Australia:

“My feeling is that the team absolutely was improving in terms of we'd beaten [Crystal] Palace, played probably our best game of the season. We drew at Fulham and I wasn't mad on the performance but we showed an element of resilience. But Leicester, in terms of when you look at the basic elements of the game, we could have easily got a draw in different circumstances.

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“So at that point, I'm pretty happy with the direction we're going in… and then we get two poor performances against Bournemouth and I do feel that's just part of where we're at in reality.

“I think we are in a pretty real position. In terms of what we're trying to do with the squad, what teams around us are doing and have done with their squads, and in a competitive league, there is no right for us to go from the position we were in at the end of last season – staying up against Crystal Palace – to getting to where we really want to be.

“The process is going to include times where we feel good about ourselves, like we did after Palace and after back-to-back wins against West Ham and Southampton, and then times when we feel not so good about ourselves. I don't see there being any other pathway than that. And that's part of the work. And that's what we have to keep focusing on.

“I think in terms of results after 13 games and going into the Leicester and Bournemouth week, I think we would have been relatively happy in a way, with an expectancy of getting something out of that week. We didn't get that. And obviously that changes perceptions.

“I think we have to react because it's the Premier League and it's crucial that we look at us, now. We can see that we haven't had enough threat at the top end of the pitch in recent weeks. Some of that has to be borne in us, me and the players, and whether we can be better.

"The reality is we will try and do the business that we can with an understanding of what we want to do – we want to help the squad in attacking areas, that is clearly the area that we want to help as a priority.

“I know people know that Dominic had his injury problems, and we bring in Neal [Maupay], but the reality is with the transfer market, at the back end of the window, a striker is the hardest position to recruit in because they are very much at a premium. So, when the market is difficult in that area of the pitch, it's not as simplistic as to say we could bring in a Number 9.

“When you can't fix the world in one window, sometimes you have to take a plan that says: ‘Okay, well, we're happy now with what we did for the window.’ And I think the general consensus is we were pretty happy. And then the reality is you then miss Dom for most of that period.

"What we decided was that, if we pushed Alex [Iwobi] higher up the pitch, as we had done before, we felt that we would suffer a little bit more with being able to constantly get pressure on different sides of the pitch, as they changed the play a lot. So, to be able to allow Alex to jump and be higher, and allow Amadou to jump and be higher, would allow us to put a more constant kind of pressure on them.

"I think the question is about trying to get the best out of [Amadou Onana] when we are in possession. And that's probably a bit of a process for us and him, a case of how high we want him and sometimes how much we want him a little bit deeper.

“Because against Newcastle, we played him deeper, pretty much next to Gana [Gueye], and it affected our play through the lines, we couldn't be as fluent... So it's trying to search for the right tweaks at the right time. There's maybe some work to be done in trying to find that right combination [in midfield] and I think that's pretty understandable. But this break is also a time of reflection to try and make sure we get the right balance."

Quotes sourced from The Echo

Reader Comments (201)

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Rob Halligan
1 Posted 12/12/2022 at 09:26:55
I'm still waiting for an apology from the club after the two debacles down at Bournemouth in the space of four days.

Travelled over 1,100 miles for that, and it's a disgrace that nobody from within the club has come out and publically apologised to all the fans making the two journeys. Mind, Kenwright will probably say “you got a £15 refund for the cup game, so what more do you want?”


Danny O’Neill
2 Posted 12/12/2022 at 09:53:44
I didn't put the miles in that you and countless other did, Rob, but London to Bournemouth is more of a trek than it looks on the map. Especially on the train when travelling from near Heathrow and having to go in and back out from Central London, which puts 2 hours on the near 4-hour return journey from Waterloo.

The cup match, I couldn't even get back into London, only as far as Woking, so had to navigate my way to Reading and get a local hopper to my nearest station.

A very painful 4 days.

Not that anyone would appreciate that. And we'll be back for more. See you at the next one! What have we done to deserve it?

Brian Wilkinson
3 Posted 12/12/2022 at 09:56:05
After those two Bournemouth games you mentioned, Rob, in years to come, I honestly believe we will look back and thank the lord the World Cup gave us a break.

Without that break, we were in free fall, and a striker out yet again for months. What that break has done is bought us time to regroup, and just a couple of games to get through before the transfer window opens.

We may continue to struggle, but absolutely no doubt in my mind, we were right in the shit, and got very very lucky, the season paused when it did.

Barry Rathbone
4 Posted 12/12/2022 at 14:25:54
"𝗹𝗻 𝗮 𝗰𝗼𝗺𝗽𝗲𝘁𝗶𝘁𝗶𝘃𝗲 𝗹𝗲𝗮𝗴𝘂𝗲, 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝗶𝘀 𝗻𝗼 𝗿𝗶𝗴𝗵𝘁 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝘂𝘀 𝘁𝗼 𝗴𝗼 𝗳𝗿𝗼𝗺 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗽𝗼𝘀𝗶𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻 𝘄𝗲 𝘄𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝗶𝗻 𝗮𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗲𝗻𝗱 𝗼𝗳 𝗹𝗮𝘀𝘁 𝘀𝗲𝗮𝘀𝗼𝗻 – 𝘀𝘁𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘂𝗽 𝗮𝗴𝗮𝗶𝗻𝘀𝘁 𝗖𝗿𝘆𝘀𝘁𝗮𝗹 𝗣𝗮𝗹𝗮𝗰𝗲 – 𝘁𝗼 𝗴𝗲𝘁𝘁𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗼 𝘄𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘄𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗹𝗹𝘆 𝘄𝗮𝗻𝘁 𝘁𝗼 𝗯𝗲...

“𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗰𝗲𝘀𝘀 𝗶𝘀 𝗴𝗼𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝘁𝗼 𝗶𝗻𝗰𝗹𝘂𝗱𝗲 𝘁𝗶𝗺𝗲𝘀 𝘄𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘄𝗲 𝗳𝗲𝗲𝗹 𝗴𝗼𝗼𝗱 𝗮𝗯𝗼𝘂𝘁 𝗼𝘂𝗿𝘀𝗲𝗹𝘃𝗲𝘀, 𝗹𝗶𝗸𝗲 𝘄𝗲 𝗱𝗶𝗱 𝗮𝗳𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝗣𝗮𝗹𝗮𝗰𝗲 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗮𝗳𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝗯𝗮𝗰𝗸-𝘁𝗼-𝗯𝗮𝗰𝗸 𝘄𝗶𝗻𝘀 𝗮𝗴𝗮𝗶𝗻𝘀𝘁 𝗪𝗲𝘀𝘁 𝗛𝗮𝗺 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗦𝗼𝘂𝘁𝗵𝗮𝗺𝗽𝘁𝗼𝗻, 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗻 𝘁𝗶𝗺𝗲𝘀 𝘄𝗵𝗲𝗻 𝘄𝗲 𝗳𝗲𝗲𝗹 𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼 𝗴𝗼𝗼𝗱 𝗮𝗯𝗼𝘂𝘁 𝗼𝘂𝗿𝘀𝗲𝗹𝘃𝗲𝘀."

Knocked it out of the park - not that it will stop the natives going bat-shit crazy when it ain't going our way.

John Gall
5 Posted 12/12/2022 at 15:40:16
With his control over words and his ability to manipulate truth to suit his version of events, Frank should go into politics. He'd make a brilliant neo-Tory, calmly mouthing bland platitudes that hide myriad crimes.

He will take us down and all the way along he will play the fan base beautifully, conning us all into believing that a team without a striker can actually survive in the Premier League, as long as we reposition our own Messi, Alex Iwobi, higher up in midfield.

And people are blaming Kenwright for the Bournemouth results!

Rob Halligan
6 Posted 12/12/2022 at 16:27:56
John, assuming your last paragraph was a dig at me, then I think it should be Kenwright who should have come out and apologised for those two horrendous results at Bournemouth. I'm not saying he was to blame for the results, of course not, he didn't pick the team etc, and if you read my post properly, I said an apology from the club, not Kenwright!

He was very quick when confronted outside Goodison to claim “There have been good times”, though I would like to know what the other ones after the FA Cup Final in 2009 were? Even that wasn't a good time because we didn't win the game.

So if he is quick enough to claim there have been good times, then he should be the one to issue apologies for all the shit times, seeing as he has overseen the vast majority of them for the past 27, soon to be 28 years, unless we can somehow win the FA Cup this season.


Dave Abrahams
7 Posted 12/12/2022 at 16:44:04
A lot of words there, Frank, that didn't make much sense to me, to be honest. Yes, I felt good after the Palace game. The two back-to-back wins could have gone either way, that's three wins all season with 13 goals scored, a mish-mash of a midfield that doesn't seem to know what or which way they are supposed to be operating and putting more work on an already over-worked defence.

Yes, relying on Calvert-Lewin being fit didn't help matters but we needed another striker at the start of the window as well as Dominic anyway, so it was a big chance to take.

The team is not functioning as a unit and it is very doubtful that the squad is capable of getting us out of the trouble we are in without reinforcements early in the transfer window.

Bill Gall
8 Posted 12/12/2022 at 16:50:47
John #5,

You are the only other person I have read on here or anywhere else with the same last name as myself, do you live in Liverpool or somewhere else?

That is a reasonable response from Lampard as most people would just say we are crap, and have to respond from lack of knowledge of the players we bought.

Kieran Kinsella
9 Posted 12/12/2022 at 16:51:53

I thought similarly. The gist seems to be that the team isn't very good and there's not much he can do about it beside making "tweaks" in positioning for Iwobi and Onana.

I guess that's probably the sad reality of the situation but I was hoping I suppose for something more rousing "We will fight them on the beaches."

Jim Lloyd
10 Posted 12/12/2022 at 16:55:49
I think I read one post that blasts the club for not apologising to the fans for the results. It's not so much the results, it was the disappointing performances that led to those results. It was also some recognition for the effort and the cost that the fans laid out in less than a week.

Personally, I think the supporters who made those trips deserve recognition from the club and a refund of at least one journey, for the support they showed our club, and got bugger-all back.

After travelling around a thousand miles to watch our team, maybe he was within his rights to be rather angry at what he perceives as substandard performances and the money it's cost him and the lengthy travel he's made on each occasion.

He can say himself why he wrote what he wrote, but I'll bet that he will not stop travelling to support our team. I think the club could, and should, make full refunds to the fans for travelling such distances in such a short space of time. And an apology wouldn't go amiss. That is within the Chairman's remit.

My guess is that post was written by a loyal supporter who has just blown a fuse, that we as a club have come to this after 27 years of this so-called stewardship of the current Chairman... and I wouldn't blame him!

Having read the interview, I don't see anything other than the manager trying to explain what circumstances brought the team to play the way they did. He is being honest in trying to explain how he and his team have tried to cope with losing our two main strikers and the opposition's tactics while we have injuries as well.

My view is our manager is like a motor mechanic trying to fix a clapped-out car while it's still moving, and one or two important parts are missing. He has explained that we are short of attacking options. And that to try and make those additions is going to be bloody hard going, as they are the hardest and most expensive posts to fill.

As far as I'm concerned, I think he's made mistakes, expensive ones, but he's owned up to them and stated we've no divine right to just flY away from the place we were at last season. It's a battle and we haven't got all our troops yet. I think and hope us supporters do our part.

As for people blaming Kenwright for the Bournemouth disaster, I think that is wrong. They are blaming Kenwright for the 27 years it's taken him to sink the club to the level we are at now.

Joe McMahon
11 Posted 12/12/2022 at 16:57:30
Frank's sounds more like Roberto. What we need is something on the whole that has been lacking in Everton teams for donkey's years; yup' it's goals. 2 strikers that actually score are needed in early January.

Paul Kossoff
12 Posted 12/12/2022 at 17:05:12
Where we are in reality, Frank, because you are allowing cast-offs and not-good-enoughs to come to the club. No way would I allow the DoF to not buy a striker knowing Calvert-Lewin is on wobbly legs.

Second-rate buys are putting this club into another relegation fight and you and the DoF are as much to blame as the owner.

Maupay, McNeil, an untried Onana for £33 million... you, Frank, are to blame as much as anyone else. You'd better put your foot down in January and bring in some tried and tested players — or, like you, we are toast!

Jim Lloyd
13 Posted 12/12/2022 at 17:06:49

I hope Father Christmas will drop a couple down the chimney! Hang on... knowing our luck, they get broken legs!

But we've got to get them or at least one and a creator, or it's likely to be a bleak midwinter.

Tony Abrahams
14 Posted 12/12/2022 at 17:08:40
John @5,

Watch the Rooney interview on ToffeeWeb, and then see if you still believe Bill Kenwright is a good man who just never had the money to take Everton forward, unfortunately.

Lampard has signed two of our midfield players, and the club are offering the other one a massive new contract, and yet our midfield has been very dysfunctional for most games this season.

Earn your corn, Frank, and concentrate on being hard to beat before you concentrate on becoming more fluid; otherwise, it's going to end badly, once again.

John Gall
15 Posted 12/12/2022 at 17:17:34
Bill #8.

Yes, I am from Liverpool – Walton L4 to be precise. My dad, also a Bill, grew up in Anfield. I think there's quite a few Evertonian Galls out there!

I'm now in London btw. Nice to make the connection with you, cousin!

Phil Hamer
16 Posted 12/12/2022 at 17:26:57
Frank trying to massage the Leicester game to one which could have gone either way. Leicester were light-years ahead of us in every department.

Not certain if people noticed how Southampton ran us ragged for the last 35 minutes down there too. It was more than just 'late pressure', it was a Bottom 3 side slicing through us at will from the 55th minute onwards.

I remember my usual ecstasy at an away win being tempered by feelings of… 'Did Southampton really just spend nearly half the match walking through us like we were a pub team??'

The truth is we have been dominated by almost everyone bar Palace since the decent West Ham performance on 18 September. In that time, we're averaging about 16 attempts against us per game, while we average 8 attempts for.

Frank is clearly articulate, intelligent and engaging, and that is buying him a bit of breathing space with the fans, but this season is VERY different from last season... There is no Norwich or Watford to bail us out this time and we were on a death spiral leading up to the break.

Frank is probably bright enough to know that defeat to Wolves after 6 weeks of preparation could be it.

Darren Hind
17 Posted 12/12/2022 at 17:31:20
I cant call the rest of the season. One step forward, two steps back ?..or is it the other way around ? Margins are always tight in the EPL, but more so for us. We seem to be existing by the width of a rizzla.

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the Everton way.


Darren Hind
18 Posted 12/12/2022 at 17:40:06

An apology??? You'll wait a long time for that mate...

Don't worry. I know you already know that!

Jim Lloyd
19 Posted 12/12/2022 at 17:48:21
John (5),

The interview with Wayne (I've just started watching it now) is on Toffee TV. I think it'll be the first time I've heard him directly, tell of his Everton career.

I think there's 2 parts and the 1st one's on for an hour (so I've just stuck me tea on!) See what you think. It should be interesting for us all to see how we lost the best British player in a generation, and hear it straight from the lad himself.

James Hughes
20 Posted 12/12/2022 at 17:54:24
John #5,

People are right to blame Kenwright as he has been at the helm for 20 years and has overseen the decline if this club.

Between him and dour Dave bought into the 'plucky little Everton' and glass ceilings and 'knives to a gunfight' bullshit that still goes on.

When eventually selling the club to Moshri, he was allowed to keep his hand on the tiller and still steer the good ship EFC.

And those good times he talks about? Well, we bought some new lawnmowers a few years ago …

TA-RA ,Teary-Eyed Bill, Get the Feck away from EFC and let someone with more than a dozen braincells run the club.

Nick Page
21 Posted 12/12/2022 at 18:10:05
What's this – not another Kenwright-loving Gall. One's enough, thank you very much.

God knows what Lampard is going on about here but he's making it all sound a bit complicated. It's quite easy really, Frank – try and score more goals than the opposition, 1. By having strikers on the pitch and 2. By actually shooting at the fucking goal.

Kenwright out, the big fat lying gobshite.

John Keating
22 Posted 12/12/2022 at 18:19:04
I fully agree with us being in freefall before the break.
Our performances, never mind the results, were abysmal.

Three points against Wolves are a must as the two games after that, plus the Cup game, on paper give us little chance. As we have said so often, losing becomes a habit and once in that rut it's really difficult to get out.

As much as I like Lampard and his engagement with the support, if the first month of the restart continues like the month before the break, I think he'll be spending all week with Christine watching Loose Women…

Colin Glassar
23 Posted 12/12/2022 at 18:21:39
John 5, you have some gall, mate.

I'm with Rob Halligan.


Derek Wadeson
24 Posted 12/12/2022 at 18:30:17
Last season, we struggled with Calvert-Lewin's injuries; this season, we have no Richarlison to bail us out. Not rocket science, but when did facts ever get in the way of another ToffeeWeb moanfest?
Michael Boardman
25 Posted 12/12/2022 at 18:37:49
Waistcoat to resign from England and Fat Frank to take over? We then get Brown Shoes back for a second season?
Jim Lloyd
26 Posted 12/12/2022 at 18:51:29
God knows where we are regarding P&S rules and FF-bleeding-P but those two handcuffs might stymie us for bringing a decent anyone in, never mind a goalscorer.

Would anyone know, should those rules prevent us from spending, could we bring the likes of Simms and Dobbin back? Because it really will be the last chance saloon if we can't bring anyone in.

As for changing manager, if it leaves us in the same position, what would be the point? Unless we get someone in who is far better, and suddenly we find millions under a mulberry bush, we will be in the same position.

Let alone, even though they're professionals, the effect it will have on the first-team players. I think it would be a really bad move to change managers now.

Tony Everan
27 Posted 12/12/2022 at 18:55:19
There's a bit of blather and soft soaping going on there from Frank, but I think he is trying to create a positive vibe going into this crucial period of games upon the restart; take this rhetoric with a pinch of salt.

Ultimately results will decide his fate, for better or for worse, like every other manager. I'm desperately hoping he can get a win against Wolves and get some momentum for the next two home games. The prolonged break has given him a massive opportunity to prove himself as a manager and turn things around.

Kunal Desai
28 Posted 12/12/2022 at 19:02:42
I'm not expecting Lampard or the club to pull off any major coups in the January window. It'll be one or two backup players at best or cheap loans.
Danny O’Neill
29 Posted 12/12/2022 at 19:03:53
Jim @10, fine words.

Rob is one of the finest and most dedicated Evertonians I have had the privilege to meet. He travels religiously in a way I can only hope to do, although I try my best.

Him and the gang are taking me to Europe. I'm on a promise!

Darren. Hang in. The turnaround is coming.

Kenwright has had more than his chance. Time for change.

27/35. Soon to be 28/36.

Although we're still in the FA Cup so it could be 0/36 come May.

It's nearly Boxing Day.

Bill Gall
30 Posted 12/12/2022 at 19:17:49
Hi John #15,

Thanks for the reply. I am from Liverpool 11, Scarisbrick Road, but left in 1976 for Canada. Played at Goodison for the school in 1952-53 season, that's how I became an Everton supporter.

My brother (a red supporter) has 2 of his kids living in London.

Dale Self
31 Posted 12/12/2022 at 19:21:57
"Played at Goodison...", damn, Bill, just take over the damn thread will ya? Who's going to top that?
Peter Mills
32 Posted 12/12/2022 at 19:29:38
I'm in the “keep Frank” camp, partly out of wishful thinking and partly because I don't think we can take another bout of upheaval. And the thought of bringing back Martinez brings me out in a cold sweat.

However, if Frank really thinks the Leicester game was evenly matched, he is straying into the realms of Roberto ridiculousness.

We were heavily beaten twice at Bournemouth, and were awful in both games. They are one of the worst teams in the Premier League, but we have shown ourselves to be poorer than them. We have no idea whether our centre-forward can regain fitness or, if he does, whether anyone can provide any service to him. We have (cheaply) sold our Brazilian would could help drag us out of the mire.

I fear that, if we do not gain a substantial amount of points in the first 4 or 5 Premier League games after the break, we will not have the basic ability to avoid the drop.

Dennis Stevens
33 Posted 12/12/2022 at 19:44:23
Keep Frank camp??
Jim Lloyd
34 Posted 12/12/2022 at 19:47:15
Tony, (27),

In the end, results will tell. I hope he makes it and the team make it. I think though, this time we will have to face the possibility, that we'll go down and a change of manager won't do the trick.

Horrible to think it and worse to voice it; but it's a real possibility, whoever we have as manager. I don't think there's some superman who can pull us out the mire in half a season. (Or why haven't we got him already?) I don't know if we'll get any new players in. So I only know that this is what we have and who we are.

Get anyone, manager or player, better than we have, then that's a bonus.

If not, we can do one or two things, support the team; or not. After the game, or even at the end of the season, then let rip. And let rip at the ones who have sailed the good ship Everton FC onto the rocks. It will not be the men who have been here for a year or two.

I think you know who will be to blame. Point your derision at the main culprit.

If our team breaks away from the mire, it won't be because of the culprit. It will be in spite of him and he's got to go! No matter what!

Len Hawkins
35 Posted 12/12/2022 at 19:48:55
A lot of people seem to want Lampard gone and the overseer of this calamitous club according to the media rags is hell bent on bringing a failed manager back. Moshiri spent £25million on the useless lump – £13M for Niasse and £12M compensation to a Spanish cobbler.

If Moshiri rubber-stamps him coming back, then he deserves to lose all his money.

So, after less than a year, Lampard is persona non grata by some and he is the suggested next lamb to the slaughter.

Don Alexander
36 Posted 12/12/2022 at 19:49:41
I think the thread should be titled – Frank Lampard: "We're up Shit Creek".
Phillip Warrington
37 Posted 12/12/2022 at 19:53:29
Is this guy delusional?

"I'm pretty happy with the direction we're going in"???

We are 5th from bottom and playing toothless and shit football; yes, Frank, this seems to be a great direction that we are heading to. How long, for fuck's sake?

Dale Self
38 Posted 12/12/2022 at 19:59:07
Well, I did think it rather gauche… but camp? Please.
Jim Lloyd
39 Posted 12/12/2022 at 19:59:27
Hopefully Don, we've got a paddle... and we point the canoe out the mire!
Pat Kelly
40 Posted 12/12/2022 at 20:09:45
What a load of old bollocks.

Getting his excuses in early. Ignoring the fact that he brought in a lot of no marks and wouldn't start Garner.

Dave Abrahams
41 Posted 12/12/2022 at 20:12:08
Len (35),

I doubt many fans want Frank out, just some evidence from him that he knows what is needed to get us further up the Premier League table.

Dale Self
42 Posted 12/12/2022 at 20:23:14
I get the feeling Frank does not have much room to maneuver with his PR and, fair enough, he talked too much early on. On the other hand, it's not as if the squad is seriously underserved by his, shall we say, 'understated' approach for tactics.

We're just looking for some elemental chemistry with some pieces fitting together. Without a striker, we are still experimenting and I think Frank is getting a bit of a pass on this – but who knows what the talks around a striker have been like and whether he is really culpable?

It might be a good time for him to take a look at the chips and just say 'Let the results speak for themselves'. At some point, he either has a plan for January that changes his approach on the field or he owns what he is producing there.

I just hope he doesn't undermine the squad's mentality by saying something that backfires or gets blown up by a bad backpass.

John Keating
43 Posted 12/12/2022 at 20:37:56
Jim @34,

You might be correct that, should Lampard fail to put things right quickly and he pays the price, there may well be nobody out there to pull us up.

However, when I think where Newcastle were last Christmas, then it is possible.

Jerome Shields
44 Posted 12/12/2022 at 21:09:21
Actually, it seems all reasonable explanation from Frank regarding the obvious weaknesses of Everton and the adaptation needed to compensate for not being a good career move for forwards.

But I have seen such explanations blown away when basic determined application is not applied. If there has not been a successful program of training and effort put in over the break, it is going to be a very difficult restart to the season for Everton.

I firmly believe that the start to the season we got from Everton was a tail-off as a result of poor effort and preparation being put into training from the pre-season on which seems to have been a shock to Frank, but we have seen it all before).

So as far as this season is concerned, Everton are behind the curve in preparation, when compared to other Premier League teams. They will have needed to have put in an extra effort during the break to redress this deficiency. On top of that, the unfinished business regarding forward play has to be addressed in the January transfer window.

Really this situation is the result of the Club being badly run for years.

Jim Lloyd
45 Posted 12/12/2022 at 21:16:29
Yes, John, it's possible; but I think there's a couple of differences.

One is they've got a Premier League manager of some length of time; but the more influential factor is I think, the money that the Saudis have put into a club who already have some decent players.

My hope is that the current set-up will do it. If not, and we swap managers, we mightn't have a penny to buy decent players. It's possible but what would you think the odds were?

Ray Smith
46 Posted 12/12/2022 at 21:30:10
John @43,

Not with Kenwright in the frame as ever.

Newcastle have Staveley and her entourage backing Newcastle! That's the difference!

Pete Clarke
47 Posted 12/12/2022 at 21:32:38
That was a very Martinez type of waffle Frank has just delivered there and I think he's given up. This coming from someone who fully backed him until the recent Bournemouth fiasco.

Time to earn your coin and turn Everton into the Premier League version of Morocco or we're heading south, I think.

Kenwright Out!

Jim Wilson
48 Posted 12/12/2022 at 21:36:01
Lampard must get it right for Wolves.

The restart is like a first game of the season when you can be lacklustre and get caught out. Boxing Day produces shock results. Coady is out and, if Lampard reverts to a back 3, that could be disastrous.

And if Wolves have their injured strikers back, I can see problems.

Lampard must show he can deal with these pressure situations. If he fails this test, he should go. Just 3 wins is not good enough for anyone.

Joe McMahon
49 Posted 12/12/2022 at 21:38:56
John, Ray and others,

IMO Newcastle's squad had more quality before their takeover than the crap that Everton have now.

With no Richarlason, we are struggling, and some posters on this site didn't rate him.

Derek Knox
50 Posted 12/12/2022 at 21:49:09
Dave A @ 41,

Again, like Jim Lloyd said on another thread, it is neither the right time to change manager at all, although he has made many errors in his tenure. As Jim so rightly said, a new manager would possibly disrupt the good things that Frank and his team, have done in defence.

We would all agree that the midfield and forward set-up needs an injection of something (preferably legal substances) or an inhaler or two.

Nick Page
51 Posted 12/12/2022 at 21:50:28
Unless we get a couple of strikers in, we'll struggle to get 30 points.
Steavey Buckley
52 Posted 12/12/2022 at 22:12:23
Frank Lampard spent a lot of money on Onana, who does not have ability to change the direction of games, while Everton are still clueless up front where there are no strikers to cross the ball to; that has cost Everton at least 6 very valuable points.

This situation won't change until the next transfer window, which could be too late as Everton are scheduled to play weaker teams before that.

Tony Everan
53 Posted 12/12/2022 at 22:43:45

I don't know whether it's legal but they need a pair of bull's bollocks superglued onto their groins. Some belief and bravery to attack defenders and displace defences.

Occasionally it's warranted but there's far, far too much slamming the brakes on and passing it tamely back to midfield or defence, oftentimes intercepted.

I want to see much less of this cowardly and conservative play. I'd much rather see our forwards and attacking midfielders go for it – take responsibility, attack with single-minded determination, be positive and even fail nine times out of ten – than not try at all.

The fans will appreciate the effort and it's the only route to their success as footballers.

Laurie Hartley
55 Posted 12/12/2022 at 23:47:28
I am normally quite an optimist when it comes to Everton but I feel very uneasy about our current situation.

The club ownership and hierarchy is not my immediate concern. What is happening on the pitch, however, is – and in my view, one that has to be addressed as a matter of the utmost urgency. Otherwise, we will find ourselves in a position we are unable to recover from.

Given our proven track record of providing relief to our fellow strugglers, how many of us feel confident that we will get a result against Wolves? I don't.

While acknowledging the fact that he has connected with the fan base and the players, I don't think that is enough – not if we want to stay in the Premier League.

Don Alexander
56 Posted 12/12/2022 at 00:00:20
To my mind, our Frank has now realised what Allardyce, Ancelotti and Brands in their different ways spoke about, namely that the club's hierarchy is delusionally inept at running a football club.

The damage inflicted on us by their bungling will not simply be sorted by a new stadium. They've already fucked us for seasons to come, such is their incompetence.

The apparent fact that some Toffees are still on side with Kenwright et al is nearly as depressing as having to accommodate citizens who are so thick, they vote for Johnson, Trump and Brexit, cretinous as all three are.

Derek Knox
57 Posted 13/12/2022 at 00:17:32
Don, the only constant factor in our miserable last 30+ years is, as you so rightly indicate, Kenwright – that narcissistic maggot who has profited very nicely on a personal basis while thousands of us have suffered. We have had some decent managers, and two who have won European Cups etc.

One shall remain nameless, for several reasons, but the other having said he would see out his commitment, jumped ship. It beggars the question: Why can no-one apparently turn this club (Sleeping Giant) around???

As they say in court: I arrest my case, M'Lud!

Dupont Koo
58 Posted 13/12/2022 at 04:18:36
A bit different from a lot of you, my expectation for this season is to survive in the Premier League so that we can buy the time to:

1) Get more expiring contracts (expiry date by June 2024 the latest) out of the door next June;

2) Getting things straight with our U18 and U21 teams & Academy (which is in much better shape faster than I would imagine);

3) Allow the younger first-team players to develop (Onana, McNeil, Gordon, Patterson and Mykolenko).

The list of expiring contracts is long:

Mina, Dele, Davies, Doucoure, Rondon, Townsend, Gbamin, Gomes, Lonergan

And we still haven't counted deadwoods like Keane & Holgate!

On the bright side, we are getting the Moise Kean Cash in next Summer (€25M) and – should Thelwell get most (if not all) of the above off our wage bill (they are making an estimated total of £650k per week) – we shall then be able to get new players and promote some young guns simultaneously.

Sit tight, my fellow Evertonians. It is usually the darkest at the end of the tunnel.

Sean Roe
59 Posted 13/12/2022 at 05:32:17
Sorry, who brought three defensive midfielders into the club when we all knew we were crying out for attacking reinforcements?

So ''where we are at in reality'' is below a Championship side that smashed us off the park – not once, but twice!!

Frank has brought in eight (if my memory serves me right) players into the squad and we are worse than we were last season.

Piss off, Frank... piss off, Kenwright!

Andy Walker
60 Posted 13/12/2022 at 06:07:09
Sounds like the ramblings of a doomed manager. Not exactly inspirational.

I don't hold out much hope for us. Hope I'm wrong.

Danny O’Neill
61 Posted 13/12/2022 at 06:27:45
I read through that again. There is a lot of stating the obvious, but I picked up on his comments on midfield.

What struck me was the reference to individuals (Iwobi, Gueye, Onana). He was talking about them as individuals, pushing up, sitting deep etc. Not talking about playing as a unit. Iwobi pushing with Onana deep alongside Gueye leaves an exposed gap in the area of the pitch where games are won or lost.

We all know what is needed, so no need to go into that, I just assume that those in charge have it in hand.

Over half a season and 69 points to play for. Let your team, our team, do the talking on the pitch, Frank.

Buckle in and enjoy the ride, Blues. I'm going to. They may just surprise some of you.

Jim Lloyd
62 Posted 13/12/2022 at 07:09:49

I agree with Dupont on a number of points. I see our first priority as moving away from the relegation places, and staying away. A bonus would be a good run in the FA Cup and with a bit (lot) of luck winning it. But buying time as Dupont has said, is our top priority and for the reasons Dupont has mentioned.

Like Danny, Derek and others have pointed out, we all know what is needed. Someone to create chances and someone to bang them in. There's not much point in whingeing about who we've already got, we have to make the best of them. I think we have already got some players who are creative, but it would be great if we got someone like Madison. It's not likely though.
We've played well enough in games this season to show that we can win games, we desperately need a goalscorer. Finding one is the hard part, especially in January, although I like Ropbert Tressell's suggestions.
As for the manager if the club keep him then we need to support the squad that's picked for the games to come. For sure as eggs is eggs, we will go down, if an atmosphere is created that we've seen to often in the past five or six seasons. We will definitely need an atmosphere the same as the tail end of last season, or we're goosed.
As Frank as said above. Our manager should let our team do the talking on the pitch.

Jim Lloyd
63 Posted 13/12/2022 at 07:58:02
Got Frank on the brain! I mentioned in my last sentence that we should let our team do the talking on the pitch, as mentioned by Danny O'Neill.
Tony Abrahams
64 Posted 13/12/2022 at 08:13:03
Don@56, I think you have hit the nail on the head mate because it’s very sad to think that I haven’t missed Everton playing over these last few weeks, and it’s definitely not Frank Lampard who I’m completely bored of.

I don’t see an end to this, Everton exist to survive, until there is a complete change of ownership, and once that is achieved maybe relegation might actually help to sort out our club?

Nobody wants to go down, but once we have got rid of the people who have slowly dragged us down, then a year or two in the championship might help us rebuild and become a real Everton, once again?

Danny@61, good spot mate. I never pay to much attention to what I mostly deem as lip service, but football is about having complimentary partnerships all over the park imo, and although I’m aware that football is a ‘team game’ played by individuals, the worrying thing is, that this doesn’t really come across when Lampard speaks about his midfield.

Alan J Thompson
65 Posted 13/12/2022 at 08:13:40
If we were to change managers then who would be the alternatives? I certainly wouldn't want anyone we've had before that might be willing to come and that most likely would be Martinez, Moyes and Allardyce. Of the three Moyes would be the most likely to move us out of relegation but little else. It is unlikely that we could attract a top line manager after Ancelotti's leaving as it seems obvious that we have little in the way of transfer funds but we more need a little known top coach and tactician who is willing to work with mostly what we have. I have little idea if any new, younger managers have that ability and maybe only Pocchetino(?) is available but seems to have higher aspirations.

It would be nice if we thought there was somebody in the higher echelons of Goodison who we think could have a word in Frank's shell-like but that maybe more rare than the likelihood of a proven, top line manager suddenly stating his interest in the job.

So, Frank's best it is.

Jim Lloyd
66 Posted 13/12/2022 at 08:45:15
Good point, Tony, and maybe going down would give the time for the Everton FC to get rid of the baggage we've been carrying for over quarter of a century.

But we need to be careful. I think a lot of us feel the way you do. I was talking to Derek Knox about the same thing. In my view, there's a lot more at stake than just boring football for this 5 months or so.

Getting rid of yet another manager halfway through a season is, in my view, most likely to lead to whatever cohesion there is in the squad evaporating.

The easy part for us is saying "Get Shut". The hard part is getting a manager in who can make a better squad out of what we've got, without being able to bring in enough class in postitions to make much of a difference. That's what we'll be faced with.

Assuming the powers that be decide for their own reasons to wait til the end of the season to decide, what do we do as supporters? Chant to the manager to "Fuck off out of our club" – like a fair number did to Allardyce? Then a section (small or large depending on your view) wouldn't take to a manager because he managed Liverpool.

Bobby Martinez got us to the highest position we've had for donkeys and Silva seems to have managed to do okay since leaving. The Dutchman was binned, the Italian couldn't wait to scoot, and now the next manager is lined up to go... and who do we get?

My view is that, if the Board keep him, then I'd back our current manager and the team, fed up as I am of watching us play without a goalscorer of note, and without someone like Maddison (how on earth England didn't find a place for him!) to orchestrate the attacking play. That's who we should be buying the likes of.

But these next 5 or 6 months are absolutely crucial. If we stay up, then job done for me. If we go down? Well, either way, we can start looking to the rebuilding of our club. It could start by getting rid of the albatross round the club's neck.

Eddie Dunn
67 Posted 13/12/2022 at 08:49:46
Reading Frank's sad appraisal of our situation leaves me even more worried.

I suppose it is his way of absolving himself of any responsibility for the predicament, but then he has never held his hand up for poor selections, poor or late changes, or tactical ineptitude.

I suppose it is better than pretending that we just need a bit of luck and everything will come good but, for me, it indicates that he has done everything that he can and yet we still look destined for a struggle.

Like others, I fear to sack him might do more harm than good and perhaps this is why the club have given him more time. After all, it appears that the ambition the club has is mere survival until Moshiri can sell and recoup some of his cash.
The owner has had little patience in the past and the nightmare scenario would be Martinez at the helm.

If we were to sack him, then we should have done it after
the second Bournemouth defeat. We have wasted time as any new coach needs the January window to bring in what he can.

It seems that we are in for another rotten 5 months but I wouldn't be surprised if Moshiri presses the "panic" button if we get done by Wolves on Boxing Day.

Robert Tressell
68 Posted 13/12/2022 at 08:50:09
Dupont #58,

That makes a lot of sense. Obviously the key thing is survival – even though we should have put that beyond doubt with more astute summer recruitment.

Getting a forward or even two in January will make a difference, even if it's a stop-gap rather than quality.

We've all now seen Lampard's limitations as a manager though. Maybe he should also recruit an effective first-team coach too – because he's a motivator, not a tactician.

Tony Abrahams
69 Posted 13/12/2022 at 09:04:54
If this is the case, Robert, then surely it would have been better keeping Duncan Ferguson!
Bob Parrington
70 Posted 13/12/2022 at 09:10:35
There are probably two sets of messages from Frank.

The first is the one we have now read and are discussing… and the one that he is espousing within the walls of the club.

Okay, I'm a member of the 'keep Frank' group for various reasons. However, we know that he was handed a heap of shit in the player mix (some good, some bad, some awful) when he took over.

He's human, so makes mistakes. But I'm sure he wanted to sign a top striker during the summer break and wasn't allowed the dosh to do it.

Was this due to FFP? Then we should blame the crazy Premier League clowns who set this process up. It seems to do the opposite of what was intended as it favours the wealthier clubs... Just IMO

Trevor Peers
71 Posted 13/12/2022 at 09:21:38
Going down to the Championship would be a disaster, there's no guarantee we would get back in a hurry, it may take a decade.

It's completely avoidable with a few astute signings being the only solution, but Lampard seems to be in denial as to just what the solutions are given his thinking in this interview. That's why I think he'll be sacked and someone else will be making those decisions about new faces.

Darren Hind
72 Posted 13/12/2022 at 09:21:46
I will never understand the mentality of some Evertonians.

Our managers have squandered staggering amounts of money during the past 5-6 years. If you include wages, it's got to be close to a billion pounds. They've all given us football which would put a glass eye to sleep. They've all left us in deep shit. They've all left with bulging saddle bags. Yet, according to some, they're all blameless. The poor fuckers are even victims???

Kenwright's iniquities are well documented and any support for him is beyond my understanding, but there is a culture developing at this club where managers can earn a fortune and still be as crap they want.

Apparently, it was Kenwright has set our teams up to play our football from behind the couch.

It's Kenwright who insists the managers spend a fortune before they get their coats off by bringing in their relatives and mates as part of their package.

It's Kenwright who keeps signing lighthouse defenders and an army of immobile midfield players who couldn't create a fizzy cocktail between them.

Kenwright repeatedly fucked up. He and his ginger sidekick created the unbreakable glass ceiling. Make no mistake – he created a lot of this shit… but if you think he is responsible for the continuation of it, you are unwilling or incapable of giving the situation any thought.

We all pray for the day when Uncle Bill parts company with this club. But If Moshiri continues to employ unsuitable managers, the managers continue to buy substandard players, and the fans continue to excuse, apologise and even be grateful to piss-taking managers for having them over... we'll still be fucking crap.

Kenwright, Moshiri, and fans who can't see beyond the end of their noses – OUT!

Brian Harrison
73 Posted 13/12/2022 at 09:48:59
I think reading Frank's views tells me – here is a manager who is floundering and has no real solutions.

He says you can't expect to go from where we finished last season to where we want to be – now I assume, when he says "where we want to be", he is talking about challenging for honours. And yes it would be unfair to expect such a huge turnaround, but I expected to see us improve from last season and results show we haven't.

Take Fulham, a newly promoted side fairing far better than us, also some of the clubs below us took advantage of the World Cup to change managers and give them a month working with the players.

We chose to stay with Frank; now, whether that was because of the financial implications of sacking a manager, I don't know, but to change him in the next few weeks if results go badly will have, I believe, massive consequences.

Someone mentioned relegation might give us a chance to reset everything. I believe, if we go down, we will become another Sunderland – new stadium but little else – and also like Leeds, returning to the top division may be a long journey.

Moshiri's problem is he and Usmanov by and large appointed managers with very little track records of winning major trophies, so despite the vast fortunes they had to spend, have been wasted.

The only really quality manager we appointed was Ancelotti and I guess, when he found out that, for the coming season, there was no money to spend, he looked for pastures new.

So the Moshiri - Usmanov reign will for me go down as a big opportunity missed. They pumped in as much as most of the top clubs but appointed managers who were ill-equipped to spend the money wisely.

Christine Foster
74 Posted 13/12/2022 at 09:55:51
Darren, I really wish it were that simple.

You're assuming it was the managers who actually bought all the dross in the first place – not Walsh, Brands, Kenwright or Moshiri. Exactly who bought who, on the say-so of whom, would be an interesting read.

But following on from that, the merry-go-round of managers, good bad or indifferent, all had their views on players, their teams built from bits of someone else's plan. With every changing face and name on the door, the problem was compounded – a squad of players without a team amongst them. Someone has to put it right...

Nick Page
75 Posted 13/12/2022 at 10:23:38
Darren, it's the culture of the club that Kenwright has created that is the main reason for its demise.

You can spend a billion and buy who you like and have them managed by Pep but, because he's not a winner, doesn't know how to win but does a great line in anachronistic fluffy family club bullshit etc etc with no goals or objectives, the players have nothing to aim for.

You can't aim for the tales of yor – and their performance drops. Why do you think so many players come to Everton and go off the boil after about 6 months despite the manager, DoF, whatever? It's all to do with the culture, and that and that alone is set by the one constant that has been dragging this football club through the mud for years. KENWRIGHT.

This man belongs in the past with the likes of Swales and Doug Ellis but here we are in 2022 and the limelight-hugging fraud is still clinging on to the trainset for dear life because he is so arrogant that he thinks he is the only Evertonian that matters and that the club would fall apart if he (and his acolytes like the completely fucking useless Barrett-Baxendale) gave it up.

What qualifies them to run and operate a Premier League football club? Running a school or a small parochial charity? Absolutely not. It's a disgrace.

If any supporters are not 100% behind the removal of this out-of-time and out-of-touch regime, they should go and support another football club because their complete and utter intransigence towards this horror show is part and parcel of the problem and they should be fucking ashamed for being pig ignorant bastards.

Brian Wilkinson
76 Posted 13/12/2022 at 11:07:16
Wow, Darren @72, you wear your heart on your sleeve and say it how you see it.

I actually agree with large parts of your post, I was going to write something very similar, but I will add a few little extra bits my side.

Absolutely no doubt our biggest problem is from the highest people running our football club.

Our downward slide started from "plucky little Everton", "best of the rest", "knife to a gunfight", accepting second best and avoiding relegation – that is how far our great football club has sunk.

We had a manager who, for all his faults, built a team of fighters, he brought in some great players from the lower leagues, he at last had those players fit, not blowing from their backsides after 60 minutes.

Make no mistake, Martinez profited big time in his first season: he had players fit, organised them to be more attacking, and for the first season it worked. Then fitness set in, along with tactics, and the wheels fell off big time during his second season.

We have already witnessed the Wigan Athletic game and semi-final where Moyes bottled it big time.

Martinez played some unbelievable football that first season, then he went into kamikaze mode, not practicing set-pieces, going to Anfield with two defenders who had to have injections before the game, okay sit deep and try to get them on the counter attack.

What does Martinez do? He pushes a high line so the defenders are much further up the pitch. Liverpool must have thought Xmas had come early, ball over the top to pacy attackers, with our crocked defenders not a cat in hells chance of catching them and 4 goals before the half-time whistle blows.

In all my time of following Everton, to have two defenders struggling, to then push them higher up the pitch and allow a team to just play a ball over them, is one of the worst tactics I have witnessed, sheer madness.

Anyway, back to the Moyes years, when Everton were happy to be the best of the rest. Every time we looked like we could move up to the next level, we would sell one of our key players, then back to square one, simply because we did not have a pot to piss in.

So part of that has got to fall on the board; however, at the same time, Everton bought well and sold well. Now do not quote me on this but, when Moyes left, I think his insane outs on transfers equated to Everton showing a £1.2 Million loss over the Moyes years.

Now this is where it really kicks in: under Moshiri, Everton spend, but on a large percentage of players not being re-sellable, players on huge contracts, running their contracts down – that has been our biggest downfall. We managed to get some decent sales but, on the whole, lost a huge amount on players who were bang average with not a chance of a profit on resale transfers.

Like I say, we had the odd few we got a return on, but we'll over 75% of those brought in the last 6 years have drained our finances big time.

So, for all the above, the people at the very top have to take a large portion of the blame. The board needs removing, and we need to rebuild from the very top. No use to keep replacing managers, the problem will still be here.

We need to start a new slate, bring in people who know how to run a football club, proper business people, who can deal with transfers.

Until we remove this board, we are not going to get out of this mess. They have destroyed our DNA, ripped the soul out of the club, and the only thing keeping this club afloat, is the magnificent Everton supporters, carrying this club, and picking it up off its knees.

We have done our bit, we deserve better, we demand better, we are Everton.

So much for a few tweaks, got carried away.

Danny O’Neill
77 Posted 13/12/2022 at 11:51:36
I have stopped blaming managers. So many different ones can't all be wrong.

Since we last won the league, a culture of resting on our laurels has bled into being "plucky little Everton". That comes from the top, not the dugout.

Goodison Park still has wooden floors in some parts. I spent the first half against West Ham this season sat on the front row of the Upper Gwladys but stuck right behind a post, having to lean left and right to watch the match. Fortunately, the bloke next to me never watches the second half, so I was able to take his seat after half-time.

On managers, since our last league title, we've tried many different flavours:

Colin Harvey: Great Evertonian, great coach. The only backing he got on the back of winning a title was to "invest" in Ian Wilson. Later he got to spend, but in hindsight, those 4 of Nevin, Cottee, McCall and MacDonald were a downgrade on what we'd been used to.

Kendall Mk II:The joy when we heard he was coming back. But he couldn't work his magic second time around. Not backed by the board. Bob the Pole.

Mike Walker: Done wonders at a small, provincial club. Didn't cut it at Everton.

Joe Royle:The boy from Norris Green lived the boyhood Evertonian dream of winning trophies as player and manager of Everton. Signed some great players and could have moved us forward but not backed by the board in signing the striker he wanted, so walked.

Kendall Mk III: Sad. Just sad. We stayed up. I'd have been equally upset at being relegated had it been Howard who took us down.

Walter Smith: Encouraging start and seemed to steady the ship, but gradually forced to sell our best players over time. We all remember the Middlesbrough FA Cup, but hung out to dry like many before and after.

Moyes: We could do this to death. Done what was needed, got us into a position where we could have challenged but couldn't break the glass ceiling. It's often quoted what could he have done with money? Well, he took over Manchester United, the Champions. The biggest club in the world. So he had the platform. He's failed since and looks like he's walking a tightrope now despite having good players at his disposal. Kenwright's sidekick. They complemented each other well in terms of expectation management and what constitutes "good". Let's hope that reunion doesn't happen. Or if it does, in a West End theatre.

Martinez: Hang on. Won a trophy but got relegated? Alarm bells… Bit nervous about this one. At least he signed a prolific striker.

Koeman: Felt like he never wanted to be here. That summer when several people all went out and came back with different players. Disaster that we're still recovering from. Lack of strategy from the top.

Allardyce: Feel sick. Don't want to talk about it.

Silva: Hang on, he relegated Hull? Feel nervous about this one too. Good coach though. I thought he should have been given more time.

Ancelotti: Serial winner. Almost got us over the European line but even he couldn't make it work before raising the eyebrow at the bank account balance and riding off into the Crosby sunset.

Benitez: Norwich away. Long trip home.

Lampard: Jury's out. I'm on the fence.

That list doesn't take into account caretaker managers; Gabriel, Watson, Unsworth and Ferguson x 2.

I don't know if Lampard is the answer. But I'm fed up of the revolving door.

That many managers of very different flavours, backgrounds and philosophies can't all be wrong. Although an unrealistic comparison, Guardiola would struggle at Everton.

If we are to sacrifice yet another manager, which I'd rather not do, then maybe, if we can convince him to join the Goodison circus, Pochettino. I know he's moved on the bigger and better things, but we have to remember, he made his mark at then lowly and struggling Southampton, turning them around.

I remember watching his first match. A 0-0 draw against Everton that drew anger and frustration from Evertonians. But he got his team playing instantly and had his tactics spot on that evening.

My main point. We've tried just about every type of manager. The problem lies elsewhere. Change is needed elsewhere. A dysfunctional organisation cannot function, no matter who you have at managerial level.

John Gall
78 Posted 13/12/2022 at 12:18:24
Some interesting analysis of past managers there and where it all went wrong. But the rot was setting in before the first Kendall reign, and I think I know the cause.

In 1980, at half-time during the Fa Cup semi-Final Replay with West Ham at Elland Road, Kenwright went into the dressing room to gee the lads up for the second half. He made cups of tea for everyone but forgot to rinse the filthy cups out properly.

As the game went into extra time, half the team were feeling unwell, so much so they couldn't even stop Frank's old dad from scoring their winner with a ridiculous diving header.

Perhaps even worse, in 1977, after Bingham's departure, Kenwright was the one who let it slip to a journalist mate that Everton had got Bobby Robson lined up to take over. Cue the front page splashes that enraged Robson so much he turned down the job.

So, an FA Cup and the best manager in the country – denied to us by that bastard Kenwright. He's everywhere you look. That day my son fell off his bike – I'm sure he was hanging around somewhere.

Ernie Baywood
79 Posted 13/12/2022 at 12:22:12
We've tried big spending quick fixes. We've tried changing managers. It's been an unmitigated disaster.

The reality is that, for us, there's only one way. Slow and sustainable improvement. If we have an owner with money, a new stadium, and great support... well that just means we're well positioned to take advantage when we get 'there'.

Moyes got it. You can only add one or two a year but make sure they improve the side. Be hard to beat in the meantime and play the percentages. Now I'm not convinced he would ever have got 'there' given the state of the club's finances (and lack of backing) but at least it was a plan.

So I don't want to see 4 players in January. Give me one who genuinely improves the side and who you could see still wearing blue in 2 years time. Give me a 14th-place finish without getting too involved in the dogfight.

Then do it again in the summer and get us up to midtable.

I don't see any alternative. It'll take time and hard work. I'm happy to back a young(ish) manager who is in for that long haul.

Trevor Peers
80 Posted 13/12/2022 at 12:48:26
Danny #77.

We are a club in terminal decline and Lampard will do well to survive until January.

Of course everyone is agreed the owner and chairman are not fit for purpose and should leave as soon as possible, but what we don't need is relegation – that would be disastrous, and anyone thinking it might do some good is crackers.

Nobody wants another managerial change, just looking at all the previous failures shows how hard it is for us to make a sound decision.

Avoiding relegation has got to be our only priority though, there are managers out there who can do the job and there's still time. If Frank can't get the points we need, and very quickly, he has to go!

Robert Tressell
81 Posted 13/12/2022 at 12:58:10
As an aside, I think it's really interesting how Newcastle are going about business given their vast wealth. It's all very patient and strategic – with the biggest fees going on upward trajectory players like Botman, Guimaraes and Isak. They are also scouting extensively for teenagers (something Leeds are also doing aggressively).

They have learned from our colossal mistakes when Moshiri took over. It has been utterly extraordinary incompetence.

I hope we don't make the same mistakes this January.

Dave Abrahams
82 Posted 13/12/2022 at 13:02:58
John (78),

You could go on all day and forever about the things Kenwright didn't do in a sarcastic way but we will never forget the things he lied about that would have put Everton FC in a much better position than he has allowed the club to become – a struggling Premier League club fighting to stay in that league because of his vanity.

Mark Ryan
83 Posted 13/12/2022 at 13:03:19
When you look at that long list of managers, with the exception of Ancelotti, none of them are truly tried and tested top, top managers.

As much as I would like to keep Frank, that decision is purely based on the fact that he seems to genuinely care but caring deeply is not enough. If he cannot turn it around over the immediate New Year, we have to try and get a Tuchel, a Pochettino, a proven top manager, and then he must be given time to build.

Not Dyche, not Moyes, not Martinez a proven young, inspiring manager

Andrew Ellams
84 Posted 13/12/2022 at 13:22:29
The revolving door in the manager's office only stops when you appoint the right one and Moshiri has not managed to do that yet.

I don't believe Lampard has what it takes to drag the team out of the slide it's currently in and I genuinely fear that one relegation could be followed by another within a couple of years if the rot isn't stopped quickly.

Danny O’Neill
85 Posted 13/12/2022 at 13:39:50
I know points matter but, at this stage of the season, I also look at goal difference as a gauge. We are on a par with a lot of teams and would have faired better had it not been for that Bournemouth performance and result.

Bottom 3 aside, Bournemouth have a very poor goal difference, even taking into account them beating us 3-0.

I'm looking forward to getting started again.

And we have the FA Cup to look forward to.

Jerome Shields
86 Posted 13/12/2022 at 13:46:42
Jim #66,

I have thought since the way back Wimbledon game that relegation was a missed opportunity to sort out the Club. But times have moved on and relegation would now be a financial disaster.

Firstly, the Football League stringently enforce their Financial Stability Rules. The Premier League has been really accommodating regarding Everton, something that would never happen in the Championship.

Everton have got a lot of players and probably staff on contracts, with no clauses regarding relegation, to adapt to the reduced income. So the contingency plan regarding relegation consists of hoping not to get relegated.

The most disturbing thing is that the club seems absolutely clueless, even completely blind to the need or how to turn round the situation, and it is obviously that the manager is constrained in what he can do.

Really something has to give, since Everton appear to be at the end of the road, continuing as they are. It is not going to be pretty.

Nick Page
87 Posted 13/12/2022 at 13:50:12
The Galls are definitely still on The Kenwrights' crimbo card list, I see.

The ignorance of some people is truly astonishing but then to be joking about it… just shows them up for what they are.

James Hughes
88 Posted 13/12/2022 at 13:52:36
Dave #82,

Well said, Sir, and John would do well to remember the things Boys Pen Bill didn't do. I have too many to count…

Brian Harrison
89 Posted 13/12/2022 at 14:07:26
Just a pity that Usmanov didn't take more notice of what Abramovich did at Chelsea. I hear about you can't expect success if you keep changing the manager, depends on the quality of manager you bring in.

Under Abramovich's 19-year ownership, they had 14 managers and in that time they won: 5 Premier League titles, 2 Champions League titles, 5 FA Cups, 3 League Cups, 2 Europa League titles, 1 Fifa World Club Championship, 1 Uefa Super Cup and 2 Community Shields.

Had Moshiri brought in the quality of manager Abramovich brought in to Chelsea, he may well have been looking to make a huge profit on his and Usmanovs outlay. Now, even though Abramovich employed top top managers, not all were successful but they knew from Day 1: fail to win a trophy and you're gone. Even Tuchel, who won the Champions League, that didn't prevent him being sacked when struggling the following year.

Tony Abrahams
90 Posted 13/12/2022 at 14:07:44
John @78,

There is a line in your post that really resonated with me, mate. “He's everywhere you look,” which is definitely something I couldn't agree more with when I consider what Bill Kenwright has done to us over many long and boring years.

His people are everywhere, although that incredibly transparent Strategical Review did empty out a few of them, I suppose?

Seriously, I remember someone I once knew left Manchester City and claimed there was a deep-rooted cancer within the corridors of the club, and not long after, City fell through two divisions.

I said as much to Marcel Brands 18 months ago with regards to Everton, and the look in his eye told me that I might have been close to the truth.

“Do you think it's just the players?” asked Brands, 48 hours before receiving his P45, and then along came that Strategic Review!

One of the first things they told us was that Denise Barrett-Baxendale had been looking for alternative employment (13 long months ago), so I just hope she's been successful if it's true what I'm hearing about the sale of Everton, which is allegedly getting closer.

I've heard that it should already have been announced on the very first day of December, so it's very worrying times, but hopefully soon, the man who is everywhere, might be finally getting told it's time to go. 🤞

Jamie Crowley
91 Posted 13/12/2022 at 14:11:30
As the Winter World Cup comes to an end, and any real rooting interest I had is now knocked out, this "cold weather distraction" is put in the rear view, and my attention returns to that which matters, not an every-four-year Side Show Bob event. Admittedly an event I'd give a spleen to see America win, but I digress.

Frank's words are, for me, not really far off the mark. But it's results and improvement we need, not smooth words.

1. We have a much, much better squad than last season. We do have a right to believe we should finish well away from any danger. Frank needs to understand this and live up to this realistic expectation.

2. We are impotent up front. Flacid. I love Dom, but honestly think if we can cash in on him whatsoever, we should do so. His heyday was with a magician named James who unlocked him.

With injuries and without the service of an amazing footballer, Dom just doesn't produce.
I've no idea what the answer is, but Thelwell is paid to solve these types of problems.

Goals must flow at a greater rate – this for me is our first priority, not pillaring the man who won't let go of the train set in Kenwright. Although Kenwright just needs to fuck right off.

3. Frank Lampard is our man. Like him, hate him, jury still out on him, he can not be sacked.

The lack of continuity at the managerial position is killing this club. We simply have to be patient, give Frank multiple years to right the ship, and not continue the chaos, throw-shit-at-the-wall approach of firing the damn manager every 18 months. It's just that simple.

So Frank might drive ya nuts, but keep your powder dry and think big picture and get right behind him, because that's what the club you love desperately needs.

I'm looking forward to the second half of the season. I think it'll be a roller-coaster ride, but believe we have to see where Lampard can and will take us.

And with the squad, again in my opinion, being miles better than last season, I think we'll be just fine in the end. And then the next two years will really define if Frank was a success at Everton.


Ian Hollingworth
92 Posted 13/12/2022 at 14:11:35
Dave @82, spot on!

Amongst his many lies, do not also forget what Rhino said when he was caretaker. He said the Chairman rang him several times a day.

Rhino said it like it was a good thing from the great Chairman who had given him a chance. I saw it as typical Kenwright interfering. He will defo have felt he could influence Rhino IMO.


Brian Wilkinson
93 Posted 13/12/2022 at 14:31:17
Dave and Tony, you are wasting your breath.

Some will still defend the guy, yet even before the start of the season when we were told on here, "Bill does not have as much clout anymore and we are talking shite", the very man was sat in a meeting with Levy, arranging a deal to let one of our best players leave.

The very man who had tears in his eyes when Moyes left, yet he knew 3 months beforehand he was going to Man Utd, safety certificate failure for the future, ring-fenced money, even now we are getting Rooneys side of the story of his sale.

I could be just as sarcastic and say, "Wow, those Blue flags we got were awesome!" I am struggling to think of a wow factor our current Chairman has made the hairs on my neck stand up.

He is all for himself, has absolutely no interest in what situation Everton are in. If he thought anything about this club, he would put the club before his own interests. He will not let go of his trainset, too stubborn to step aside, as long as his mush is seen on the big screen, that's Bill contented.

Maybe I am wasting my breath as well.

Good times, my arse… for Bill maybe, certainly not for the supporters.

Tony Abrahams
94 Posted 13/12/2022 at 14:47:48
I think what Chelsea have done right throughout their football club shows that Abromovich had a plan from Day One, Brian. This doesn't appear to have been the case at Everton.

Brands talked about constant meddling but he didn't come in until after Koeman and Walsh had already been here without a legitimate plan, other than signing a load of players for one position.

It sounds like Moshiri was a front for Usmanov, or maybe Usmanov was going to show his face once things went to plan accordingly? Nothing was really transparent, but hasn't this always been the case since Peter Johnson spent well above his means? Or going back further, since the fans had a whip-round to buy Terry Curran!

I don't believe you can become a billionaire if you're stupid; it was probably Moshiri's brain which elevated him in the eyes of Usmanov and leaves me to conclude that Everton was only for sale if they retained certain people?

I might be wrong but Moshiri said himself that he didn't want Everton to take up too much of his time, so hopefully he gets his wish very soon. I believe everyone needs a plan to move forward and I believe this is why Everton have stood still for a very long time now.

Everyone gets to stand still sometimes but doing it for a long time equates to going backwards, especially when we have had an owner who bent over backwards to stay in charge, and constantly robbed Peter to pay Paul just to do so. (The deal for Finch Farm is genuinely sickening.)

Ian Hollingworth
95 Posted 13/12/2022 at 14:49:07
Good times, my arse!

Maybe that should be our motto!!!

Dave Abrahams
96 Posted 13/12/2022 at 14:56:30
Brian (93),

Everything you say is true about Kenwright but I find it hard to ignore the posts defending this man and it costs nothing to reply even to some who are “at the Madam”.

I get some satisfaction from knowing that Billy Boy is an absolute phoney and a few of his defenders no longer post on here; hopefully they might have recognised the bullshit he has come out with over many, many years.

Tony Abrahams
97 Posted 13/12/2022 at 14:56:39
Jamie C, your ‘Cold weather distraction' shout made me smile, mate!

I've just had a thought that's made me go even colder (it's genuinely cold here, Jamie 🥶): maybe Moshiri went out of his way to get a photograph with the Sheikh because he's having problems with these Americans?

Brian Wilkinson
98 Posted 13/12/2022 at 14:58:30
I could also add, our chairman on national television called Everton a team of pansies, rubbish, not fit to lace any of the Liverpool players' boots. Just like the piss-water tea he made at half-time in the 1980 semi-final.

All before he became chairman, but I would rather look in a scabby bin for my next meal than lower myself to slagging off Everton, on TV, acting or not.

I hear where you are coming from, Dave, and always two sides to a story, but I'm baffled how anyone not connected to the guy himself can defend the man.

Darren Hind
99 Posted 13/12/2022 at 15:02:28
John 78

I suspect you are having a bit of fun by stoking the flames. Fair enough.

But Kenwrights charge sheet is the length of our street. You can try to disguise his wrong doings by inventing little stories going back to the days he stood on the Kop. But this is a very, very sore subject.

We'd have been playing our football in a Kirby car park if people believed the lies he told us in his glossy little brochure. I wont list his lies and episodes of mismanagement - The TW town crier does that every twenty minutes anyway

His lies, mismanagement and wrong doings are already established.

This debate as I see it, is about whether or not he is Solely to blame. Should everyone else get away with shafting the club ?

Some people seem to believe this is an either or situation. We blame the managers, or we blame Moshiri, or we blame the DOF's, or we blame Kenwright.

My problem with people who blame Kenwright solely. is that they are letting every other piss taker who has contributed to the decline of our beloved club, completely off the hook.

How about we quit being sympathetic, even grateful to these free loading fuckers and start holding them to account too ?


I include Brands and Walsh. They may not have managed the team on the pitch, but they managed many of the crazy transfers which all of our gormless managers have been happy to go along with.

Nick Page
100 Posted 13/12/2022 at 15:12:59
Brian @89 – it's exactly as Tony @90 says.

Chelsea had a plan, a structure, objectives, KPIs – call it what you will, but Abramovich expected a return on his investment, by creating a winning team on the pitch thus elevating its value. Thus, he created a winning mentality, and that culture permeates the football club. The players know it, the managers know it, and they largely deliver on it, no excuses.

As I said above, our problem has been the total opposite – a complete lack of ambition and zero accountability. This was highlighted perfectly throughout the Dour Dave years by the supposed glass ceiling they concocted.

Once you create these excuses, as Kenwright did and the gullible support (pricks like the Gall Brothers) bought it, it gave him an easy out. Because, if we failed, he could just simply say something along the lines of, "We never had any money, what were we supposed to do? No one wants to buy us. The ground isn't fit for purpose, it's falling down; our only option is moving to Kirkby."

So he's kept himself in the limelight the whole time, sold the club and not incidentally to the highest bidder but someone who would defacto hand him back the keys.

So when we finally got a load of money (via Usmanov allegedly), what happened? It was frittered away. And why was it frittered away? Because he has no plan and is totally out of his depth in a league full of clubs run by ruthless and successful businessmen.

Even FSG have admitted they can't keep up with the status quo, so what are they doing? They are engaging investment banks to search for a buyer, unlike 24/7/365 Bill who spoke to some of his cruddy mates in London, the likes of which wouldn't look amiss on the sole of your fucking shoe.

The man's an absolute charlatan of the highest order. As for the players and managers, it's all part of the same problem – they have nothing to aim for, have little accountability other than to the fans occasionally, and therefore they don't train very hard because they know they don't have to.

Tony @90 - the word you're looking for is 'ubiquitous', lol ;-)

Brian Wilkinson
101 Posted 13/12/2022 at 15:20:57
Who are these other people, Darren?

Johnson, who made some horrendous gaffs, still managed to see silverware on his watch, had a new Park End Stand built, sold up and left Everton in the black.

Philip Carter landed silverware at Everton, brought back the good times.

John Moores dipped into his own pocket and landed silverware on his watch.

Yes, others are accountable as well, but just what are these good times we are supposed to have had under his watch?

Please tell me what one of our longest-serving Chairman has brought to this football club?

He and he only brought in yes-men, former players to fight his corner.

The only Everton Chairman to cancel Annual General Meetings for shareholders.

He brought in an Everton Fans Advisory Board but what happens when Everton fans hold a protest at the ground on a non-match Day? A fan from the FAB turns up by the Liver Buildings on the very same night, blowing up Bill's arse and how good a job he is doing. Now I wonder who arranged that???

Steve Brown
102 Posted 13/12/2022 at 16:34:27
To have spent over £500 million and be in such a parlous state indicates that every facet of the club's performance has been a complete failure.

Corporate governance, financial performance, commercial management, football management, player performances, recruitment and operations – it has all been characterised by gross incompetence.

The question is: What do we need to do now to create real change? There is not an organisation in that world trying to rebuild that did not start with changing its senior leadership, and that is what Everton need to do.

Sack Frank? Sure, then sack the manager after that and the manager at that. It will not change a thing. We need new ownership and/or a new board seasoned in running successful sporting organisations.

Danny O’Neill
103 Posted 13/12/2022 at 16:38:32
Alignment to Ambramovic not suffering fools. I've used this before, but oh to have the leadership at the top of Sir John Moores.

"Everton expects success. We've a very good crowd and our crowd are very loyal. But of course, they pay money and expect us to do well. If we don't do well, then something will be done about it."

John Gall
104 Posted 13/12/2022 at 17:27:47
Thanks for the abuse chaps. Not been called a prick since, oh, last week.

Message for Bill Gall from my Dad (also Bill Gall): Says he reckons he played table tennis against you at a boys club in Clubmoor in the mid-50s.

Len Hawkins
105 Posted 13/12/2022 at 17:31:58
Well, I just think of all the clubs who phone Everton to see what Everton would do if Kenwright does us all a favour and does what Everton Supporters would have him do.

I once heard about an American woman who had men queueing up to give her one. I think she managed 400+ in a day.

What a lightweight! Kenwright can see to tens of thousands a day and has been doing so for a quarter of a century… It's about time he was put out to grass.

Dale Self
106 Posted 13/12/2022 at 17:37:51
Until he leaves or results miraculously improve, most threads on TW will now follow a version of Godwin's Law; as any discussion extends to numerous posts, the old fart will be mentioned.
Don Alexander
107 Posted 13/12/2022 at 17:38:33
Dazza (#99 and earlier), why do you so doggedly seek to undermine your own argument?

The managers were all appointed by 5% of Moshiri and 95% of Kenwright, according to them. That means they're 100% accountable for the club's worsening demise and the largely atrocious football endured as a direct consequence.

That doesn't exonerate those managers but they were all employed by the gruesome-twosome and even you fully agree that the 95% one in particular has ruined our club. The evidence is clear from those they've employed – simples!

Kieran Kinsella
108 Posted 13/12/2022 at 17:56:40
"How about we quit being sympathetic, even grateful to these free-loading fuckers and start holding them to account too?"

Like Davies, Holgate, Keane…?

Paul Kossoff
109 Posted 13/12/2022 at 18:09:46
Here is an idea, Why don't we all post Kenwright Out! And send that to Moshiri. Just that; maybe Moshiri will get the picture.

Or is it that Kenwright has a written agreement with Moshiri that he can't be removed regardless?

I fear the Wolves result will pull the plug on Frank, or prove to us that he has had his hands tied all along, and others are working the strings on this team?

Coyb, Kenwright Out.

Darren Hind
110 Posted 13/12/2022 at 18:09:47

Ignore the people who have bled the club dry and the Billion pound squandered. Let's focus on Holgate, who cost about £1M, and Davies, who cost less than fuck-all.

"They've cost 5 managers their jobs you know?"

Whatever happened to the knowledgeable Evertonian?

Paul Kossoff
111 Posted 13/12/2022 at 18:15:24
Tony 90,

All due respect but can't you come up with a more suitable analogy than that fucking disease?

Kieran Kinsella
112 Posted 13/12/2022 at 18:16:38
Haha, Darren, just extrapolating on your list of people who are to blame for being failures.

The point of focusing on Kenwright is that he started all this nonsense when he took over from Johnson. You can't boil an ocean and get rid of every loser at the club in one go but you can start by getting rid of him, then moving on to the others... and eventually Tom and Holgate.

Allan Board
113 Posted 13/12/2022 at 18:18:57
Kenwright Out! And all his little army of hangers on.

Anyway, more importantly... COME ON CROATIA!! Beat the shithouses from Argyland and piss on Lino Untidy's chips!

John Gall
114 Posted 13/12/2022 at 18:31:39
Yeah, cos when Bill sells up, we'll get a proper, super rich and ruthless Evertonian owner who loves the club and is also very astute and can make deals and knows the game inside out.

He'll tempt Guardiola over from Man City, not with Boys Pen stories, but by offering him £5M a week. We shall win everything and dominate the world and the Redshite can go and commit hari-kari on the Shankly Gates.

Face it, in the last 30 years we've appointed two good managers. Just two. The recruitment has been atrocious – this is the worst element of Kenwright's legacy.

Moyes jumped ship when Man Utd came calling. Ancelotti ditto when Real Madrid dangled the churros. I can't blame Kenwright for losing these two, but there'll be some mad conspiracy theory to explain it all away.

Sean Kelly
115 Posted 13/12/2022 at 18:32:09

I think the knowledgeable Evertonian is totally pissed off with all the shite at this club of ours.

The promised Messiah (sorry Moshiri) turned out to be a fool with money. My old man taught me that a fool and his money are easily parted.

This club is bang average on a good day. The problem is we don't have any good days. Top to bottom, we are shite; from management through to players, we are shite.

When those of us who can remember the 80s start going senile, what will Everton bring to us. Trips to Rotherham and fucking Millwall, for fuck's sake.

Darren Hind
116 Posted 13/12/2022 at 18:42:19
So Kenwright is responsible for 95% of the managerial appointments and Moshiri only 5%?

Sorry, but that's a level of ignorance I will not be arsed debating with.

Jerome Shields
117 Posted 13/12/2022 at 18:43:12
Tony #90,

Well done for tackling Brands. Brands was a real novice and allowed himself to be used. He took the position on the Board and the extra pay and found himself as the only one on the Board with football knowledge and became the patsy for the owner and the rest of the Board when things went wrong on the football side.

Changing Everton is a gigantic task:–

Those that run the club are able to continue with woeful performance indicators on a yearly basis, underlined by Premier League analysis and threat of sanctions. The Premier League accepts their reasoning and sustains them.

They are able to maintain a collective control and recruit to their ranks.

The owner is sidelined regarding accountability for the money he has put into the club.

They now cannot be questioned in any public forum.

They appear to be involved with parties that attempt to takeover the club and appear to be able to use the club's PR to put pressure on the owner to sell.

They attend games and the owner feels he can't.

They stole a march on the fan-led review to head off any meaningful fan protest and control all fan grievance channels.

The extent they are prepared to go to shows that they are not prepared to accept any criticism. They do not care if it is valid criticism or how it affects the future of the club.

Kenwright may have been the sole problem, but it is way beyond that now.

Don Alexander
118 Posted 13/12/2022 at 18:56:53
Dazza, the 95/5% factor is not what I think, it's what those two useless employers say.

There's a very obvious difference but, unlike you, I prefer to focus on the employers rather than the employees.

Focussing away from those two is right up their street! Just ask Kenwright, he thrives on such ignorance.

Darren Hind
119 Posted 13/12/2022 at 19:13:55
Ah... the arl made-up shite ... The last refuge of the ignorant.

I'd love to see the Quotes from Bill Kenwright telling us about the time he pursued Marco Silva all the way to the courts.

In the words of Jack Nicholson – Sell crazy some place else, Mr Alexander. We're all stocked up here!

Danny O’Neill
120 Posted 13/12/2022 at 19:15:35
Is it 26th December yet?
Tony Abrahams
121 Posted 13/12/2022 at 19:50:29
I could have done Paul K, but I was reiterating what I'd read years previously, and genuinely thought it was apt, when I described ‘my feelings' about Everton, to Marcel Brands. I take your point although, I never meant to be offensive.

Moyes had 11 years and never delivered a trophy but you don't blame the chairman for him jumping ship? I think your confirmed acceptance of mediocrity is very sad, John, mate.

Bill Gall
122 Posted 13/12/2022 at 19:59:41
John #104

That was a good boys club, went on a football tour in Germany in 1956 with them and used to walk past there when walking to Goodison Park. I was still playing table tennis in the 70s for Otis Elevators in Kirkby.

Don't understand why someone thinks we should be on Kenwright's Xmas card list,; I have never supported him, my beef is with the only one who can fire him, and that is the owner, Moshiri.

Paul Kossoff
123 Posted 13/12/2022 at 20:01:00
Tony 121,

Thank you, Tony.

Happy Christmas, mate.

Don Alexander
124 Posted 13/12/2022 at 20:02:49
Dazza, there's only one fact in my post (it's the 95/5% quote from the gruesome-twosome if you're confused); the rest is my opinion, which you so much support when it comes to Kenwright.

Haven't a clue what your made-up shite about Silva, the courts Kenwright amounts to – but maybe, in your now admitted fully stocked up craziness, you do!

Pat Kelly
125 Posted 13/12/2022 at 20:16:50
So Lampard has refused to accept the England job.

He said he wants to take Everton to the next level.

The Championship.

Neil Cremin
126 Posted 13/12/2022 at 20:17:20
Looking on this thread makes me really worried about the future of Everton.

TW are focusing on the failings and incompetence of Bill Kenwright and Farhad Moshri; for me, the most telling statement is from Frank LampardL: “I think we are in a pretty real position.“

How any manager can accept the last three gutless performances and make such a statement is worrying in terms of leadership, performance expectations and strategic vision for the future. Where is Nil Satis Nisi Optimum?

Up until now, I was in favour of giving Frank plenty of time but this article makes me feel he has no plan and no clear ideas of what he wants to achieve. I thought we were building a jigsaw but now I fear that all the pieces are still scattered around the table.

Tony Abrahams
127 Posted 13/12/2022 at 20:18:54
Some people on this forum laugh at you and say you make up a lot of stuff, Jerome, but I think you know somebody who is deeply involved in our club, mate.

Thanks, Paul, and I'm sure it'll be a lot happier, if I'm not getting told a load of pony, about ‘our club'. 💙

Brendan McLaughlin
128 Posted 13/12/2022 at 20:35:05
So Lampard in contention to take over the Three Lions... seems even Engerland asking "What would Everton do?"
Darren Hind
129 Posted 13/12/2022 at 20:46:29
Don Alexander,

Despite your very regular claims, we don't agree on anything.

My craziness is a bit like your ignorance. It's long been established on these pages.

Nick Page
130 Posted 13/12/2022 at 20:52:24
I agree Jerome knows something, Tony, without sounding “corny”. I've heard lots of similar tales for and against the owner from within. I won't reveal any sources, though suffice it to say, they know things are dire and have already jumped ship.

The problem is this. We've spent a long time being rank average and everyone else is now running past us at a rate due to their ambition. The bill always comes due, pardon the pun. Everton Football Club, if we're relegated, and I do believe we will be this year, finally, will slide down the divisions rapidly due to the financial overhang and we could well be bankrupt within 5 years, no problem.

The wage bill is out of control for the levels attained (again, they have no ambition), and the gathering dead wood will just continue to build up. On the other side of this, our income is also dire given the club have never been able to capitalise on their position in the Premier League as founders (and founders of the Football League). And you can't use the ground as an excuse. It's a tragic story of mismanagement and complacency bound by arrogance and hubris.

Do you Blues want us to disappear? What will you do on Saturdays then when you can't go to the game? It's that serious.

So you either demand change, or watch us die a death. It's on your head, and all our heads.

Tony Abrahams
131 Posted 13/12/2022 at 21:18:58
They all laugh at us – they all said our days were numbered.

It's serious, Nick, we could have been a Blackburn, a Forest, or a Leeds, but never a Chelsea, a Man City, or even a Leicester City. Two of those teams dropped down two divisions, one after entering administration, but thanks to Bill Kenwright, that has never happened to us!

Even though Moshiri's money has helped us start building a really impressive new stadium on the banks of the royal blue Mersey (I went past today and it's flying up), I believe our club needs to change hands quickly; otherwise, I also fear for our long-term future.

Lampard ‘might not' be the answer, but Moshiri, Kenwright and Barrett-Baxendale will ‘never ever‘ be the answer and our fortunes will never change for the better whilst these people hold the power, imo.

Paul Hewitt
132 Posted 13/12/2022 at 21:21:55
I have to agree with Darren about Kenwright. He isn't blameless by any means, but he certainly isn't totally to blame. Moshiri should have made it clear that if he bought the club Bill would have to stand down, or no sale, that's on Moshiri.

It's clear to me that Moshiri is hiring and firing the managers, not Bill; same with the buying of players. So let's stop thinking that getting rid of Bill will suddenly change us for the better. Only new owners with a completely new board with ambition and probably a new manager will do that.

Brendan McLaughlin
133 Posted 13/12/2022 at 21:27:58
Nail on the head, Paul #132.

If Blue Bill had any significant say in managerial appointments... Davey Moyes would have been re-appointed years ago.

And Rafa would never, ever have been appointed.

Tony Abrahams
134 Posted 13/12/2022 at 21:42:06
Bill Kenwright definitely created the “humdrum“, but hopefully soon it will all be over, and we will have somebody else to moan about.

Listening to that song created by Gabrielle, my wishful thinking goes into overdrive and I can just picture Kenwright crying when hearing the club is about to be sold.

Hey Mr Moshiri, do you want me to beg? you've got me cooking I'm an hard boiled egg - in the humdrum. Empty my mind, I'm finding it hard to cope, listen to my heart - I don't need no stethoscope!

The Kenwright years definitely created the humdrum, and... From the white star, came the bright scar... when is it going to end?

Tony Everan
135 Posted 13/12/2022 at 21:48:21
Danny O, back at #61.

Danny woke up early, thinking about Everton, as many of us probably do; it's an inescapable insanity.

Your insightful comments about individuals, rather than the perception of a midfield unit, has resonated with me all day today.

A midfield is nothing unless it acts as a complementary unit. It may be just the way Frank has phrased this but a massive part of any improvement is going to be connected to getting the midfield working like a well-oiled machine and definitely not isolated individuals doing their own thing.

Dale Self
136 Posted 13/12/2022 at 21:53:45
The mood is undeniably shit but this thread is fantastic. I'm actually pissed off and enthused at the same time.

Good contributions all around except for some of the sniping which I kind of get given Kenwright was lurking (sorry, John).

I think we get through this without going down but there will be some discussions like this as it won't be straight forward.

Jerome Shields
137 Posted 13/12/2022 at 21:59:09
Tony #127

It is just I have experienced in organisations I worked in a senior role similar to what has gone on in Everton. When your reputation and money are at stake, and you are even treated, it stays raw with you and I can identify it in organisations. But I admit that the sustained nature of it in Everton is something that I have not seen before.

With Frank, the hope is he will stay long enough and be able to maintain Everton in the Premier League and something at last gives higher up in the organisation. It would have to be seismic though, so structured is the rot.

I remember a couple of years ago having a similar discussion, when a poster with obvious experience of companies through the Midlands, lumping Everton with old established companies that had not changed and declined as a result. The Premier League money in Everton’s case has subsidised such a regime, but even Moshiri's money was needed to sustain them. Now, the Premier League Profit and Sustainability rules are actually sustaining the Club, with a marked leniency being shown. But Everton must stay in the Premier League.

Moshiri is in Qatar at the moment a guest of Sheikh Dr Khalid bin Thani bin Abdullah Al Thani, a Director of the Qatar International Islamic Bank. My hope is that such involvement may provide the ruthless Management needed to sort out Everton, with assured monetary backing.

Those Minnesota assholes hopefully where the last gasp of Bill.

Tony Abrahams
138 Posted 13/12/2022 at 22:13:00
I've heard it's different Americans, Jerome, but it definitely looked like Moshri wanted that photograph to be taken whilst he was a guest of that very prominent Sheikh.

Driving past Bramley-Moore Dock today, my thoughts were ‘that the money is definitely coming from somewhere‘, so hopefully soon, I might be able to become as enthused as Dale!


Christy Ring
139 Posted 13/12/2022 at 22:24:08
Frank doing a bit of Roberto's waffling, but now isn't the time to change it. Hopefully a couple of buys in January, a midfielder and a striker?

The biggest problem for me, when Moshiri took over, Martinez was in charge, and had started so well in his first season.

He spent nearly all his budget on Lukaku and McCarthy, and got Barry on a free. Injuries didn't help him in his 2nd season, and an aging defence. Moshiri didn't give him a penny, sacked him instead, rightly or wrongly?

Moshiri's first big mistake was keeping Kenwright on as chairman. His first managerial appointment, Koeman, instead of moving the club forward, was a complete backward step, a total disaster, and we've never recovered.

Some of his decisions, selling Lukaku, bringing in 3 No 10s, unbelievable. All downhill since then, Kenwright definitely had an input.

Listening to Rooney talking about the sneaky way Kenwright tried to sell him, is nothing new about Bill's reign. His backers never put a penny into the club.

He sold everything, Bellefield, Finch Farm, the merchandise, nearly ran the club into administration, and some here still back him. The club will never move forward until he's removed from the board.

Nick Page
140 Posted 13/12/2022 at 23:26:21
American Bill Foley has just completed his takeover of Bournemouth.

He has said, “We will move forward with an ‘always advance, never retreat' approach that has defined all of my endeavours.”

“I am committed to work with the best football and business minds available to enhance player development, facilities and the fan experience to put AFC Bournemouth in the best possible position to succeed.”

Another club that will waltz past Kenwright's Everton given his expertise in NHL and other endeavours. What a fucking disgrace we have become. Absolutely pathetic football club, almost pointless.

This is a club that has come up two divisions and yet again made us look like dickheads twice in a week. Bournemouth, for fucks sake... Bournemouth.

Laurie Hartley
141 Posted 13/12/2022 at 23:27:13
Tony # 138,

The subcontractors must be getting paid so yes money is coming from “somewhere” for sure. The problem for our current owner as I see it is that our new owners will want to appoint their own board and manager so he is stuck.

All we can do is dig in, support the team, and wait for the cavalry to arrive... Link

Paul Hewitt
142 Posted 14/12/2022 at 07:12:41
Tony @138.

I would think Moshiri is still providing funds for the new stadium. He could well have to pay for the lot, unfortunately for him, but he's hardly likely to abandon a half-built stadium. Then it's worth nothing to him.

Tony Abrahams
143 Posted 14/12/2022 at 08:12:39
But with the sanctions on his mate possibly meaning he's also going to be getting looked at just a little bit closer, he's almost definitely eating into his own pot, Paul, and I wonder how enthusiastic he will be feeling about having to do this?

I've never known Everton to start on season tickets so early, (I might be wrong, but November?) even if this has been another thing that Kenwright has had to constantly do whilst he was forever juggling to keep hold of Everton.

I personally think this may have been put in place because we are getting new owners who probably don't want to come in and immediately be seen to be putting the ticket prices up?

All speculation on my part, and maybe also a bit of wishful thinking. I genuinely fear for Everton Football Club right now and think we might have hit the end of the road, operating as we currently do.

28 years without a trophy just isn't Everton when you look at the club's long history.

Christine Foster
144 Posted 14/12/2022 at 09:40:12
Tony, I am afraid you are right, I actually think the writing has been on the wall for some time.

Moshiri has abandoned Goodison over a year ago, the letter that assured his commitment to the stadium completion but little else, the negotiations with potential new owners or investors (now doesn't that ring a bell?)

The sanctions on his mate... and I will say this nicely, I doubt his mate will leave him high and dry and abandon project Everton and yes I know anything and everything will be scrutinized but those with money and influence will always find ways to get what they want.

The balance sheet will have seen some hefty chunks moved off it in wages, but more will come off it too next month. It wouldn't surprise me to see Pickford and a few more sold. But like you, I feel we are treading water until new owners or investors happen.

Kim Vivian
145 Posted 14/12/2022 at 09:40:28
Mal van Schaick
146 Posted 14/12/2022 at 11:09:48
It's where we are in reality???

Hello! You are the manager, the board has backed you and this is where you and your team have taken us, just above the relegation zone.

Those performances against Bournemouth were unacceptable to the fans, and now these comments are disrespectful to the fans. Get your finger out of your arse and read the riot act.

Peter Hodgson
147 Posted 14/12/2022 at 12:16:42
After the enforced break for the World Cup, I have have to now start thinking about the resumption of the real football in England after we were dumped out of that competition by the Frogs. Needless to say, I am depressed at that thought.

Not surprising really. We were poor. It has however forced me to consider where Everton are currently at and what the rest of the season holds for us. It is not an enticing prospect and much has been said already on here about that.

I don't think that much more being said about that would serve any useful purpose. I noticed though that a couple of posts – #1 & #6 by Robert Halligan (there may be more by others) should be considered as a common contributory factor in our current unsatisfactory and depressing demise.

Whether supporters are ignoring that aspect as they too are so depressed with the situation is unclear to me. But if they are ignoring it, it is probably clear to them that it would probably take more than disquiet on a fans forum to change the status quo.

However, that shouldn't be a reason not to voice that disquiet when it is staring us in the face that the person being spoken about is the only one that has been there whilst a succession of managers have passed through the revolving doors at Goodison Park.

I'm not a manager so haven't a clue as to what must be done in the football sense – except to bring in someone in January that will score goals for the rest of the season and beyond – or we can forget a glorious departure from the Grand Old Lady to our new home...

Jim Lloyd
148 Posted 14/12/2022 at 12:28:04
The signs of new owners or partners might just be slowly budding. I bloody well hope so!

Anyway, now that the sanctions have been put on Usmanov, Mr Moshiri has to find funding for the stadium from somewhere.

I think Christine has made a good point regarding the sleight of wallet Billionaires and the like will use to continue the flow of funds. But there's the naming rights that look like will go somewhere else than they were originally destined to go to.

It's interesting that Mr Moshiri was snapped talking to a gentleman in Qatar recently. It's quite possible they'd like to get involved in the Premier League as owners of a club. If not owners, then investors or naming rights etc.

It could benefit us in another way as well. Didn't Kenwright get put in overall charge of the stadium development? Well, I think that there's a decent chance it won't be left in his hands with new partners or owners becoming involved in the club.

Like Tony, and probably many more, there's a large dose of wishful think from me, but I can't see Mr Moshiri carrying on being both sole funder of the stadium and the transfer benefactor.

We definitely cannot or will not be able to carry on bumping along and losing money while funding players and building the stadium, while we're generating little in the commercial side to allow us to spend anyway!

That's why my view is that our club's future is inextricably linked to two things: 1) is staying up; and 2) is the funds coming into the club to fulfil the FFP and Profit and Sustainability rules. And at the same time, having the funds available to buy the players the club wants when we get into the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock.

It seems to me that this last half-season has massive repercussions for the club. It is vital that we go into that new ground as a Premier League club.

I think all the above will slip down a number of notches, ie, how much comes into the club should a buy out be in investors minds, how much would come into the club re advertising, sponsorships etc, if we're playing mighty Stoke City in our opening league game.

Another benefit if we get new partners or owners: The Albatross will, almost certainly, disappear.

Danny O’Neill
149 Posted 14/12/2022 at 12:51:07
Peter @147. I've enjoyed the World Cup but can't wait for the Blues to be back.

I don't know how you label comments by Rob as being a contributing factor in the demise of the club.

He travels religiously to support Everton. The supporters aren't to blame here. The club has been run badly for decades.

Wins against Wolves and Brighton with the FA Cup to look forward to.

The Everton World will be a better place in a few weeks.

Although it shouldn't disguise the need for change.

The supporters are not the problem.

The only thing we're guilty of is blind faith – and passiveness towards the Main Stand.

Kevin Molloy
150 Posted 14/12/2022 at 13:05:44
A lot of dangers facing Everton at the moment.

For me, one of the worst is the number of high-profile plonkers currently out of a job, who may be able to bamboozle our world-class owner into giving them a 3-year deal in the event that Frank loses the next two games (not unlikely).

If Gareth Southgate becomes the next boss of the Blues, relegation would just be a blessed release.

Kevin Molloy
151 Posted 14/12/2022 at 13:26:22
I'm not so sure, Danny @149. I think our supporters have contributed at times to the problems we face.

I think the crowd (for wholly understandable reasons) is too quick to express its disapproval, and has contributed to the team feeling inhibited to play the football it wants.

We learnt a very hard lesson last season when the fans were forced, on pain of relegation, to offer up only unconditional support to the team, and you could see the dividend.

The other lot cottoned onto this trick decades ago, they very rarely offer a negative reaction to their team, and have reaped the rewards, certainly recently. You could say 'It's easy to support Klopp's team', but they were the same with Rodgers.

Derek Wadeson
152 Posted 14/12/2022 at 14:10:11
ToffeeWeb moanfest continues with the Kenwright haters fighting over who hates him the most. Logic went out of the window a long time ago.
Dave Abrahams
153 Posted 14/12/2022 at 14:13:31
Kevin (151),

During Ancelotti's one full season when there wasn't any supporters watching football, Everton had quite a good record away from home but a very poor one playing at home with no supporters there to get on their backs.

Peter Hodgson
154 Posted 14/12/2022 at 14:17:21
Danny @149.

You have got me wrong with your post. Probably my fault for not explaining myself properly.

I was trying to suggest that it was right in pointing towards our Chairman as being at least partially responsible for us being where we are today rather than trying to blame a member on here for our problems.

I also hoped to encourage other like-minded thinking individuals to speak out and air their own views as to why we are where we are. If I gave the wrong impression, I apologise to one and all.

The problem has existed for far too long now but has got, in my view, to a critical point and needs remedying. Bill has been here before and managed to head off the dissenters. How often can he do that?

One Chairman and how many managers...? There is something wrong there. Step in, Mr Moshiri. You know it makes sense.

Dave Abrahams
155 Posted 14/12/2022 at 14:20:18
Derek (152),

Where do you stand in relation to Kenwright?

Danny O’Neill
156 Posted 14/12/2022 at 14:29:08
I'll accept that, Kevin @151. Sometimes the supporters can be too quick to get on the back of the team and the manager.

That's our problem. We channel our frustration in the wrong place. It's natural, but the problem lies elsewhere in the club where change is needed.

Peter @154, my apologies for any misinterpretation and no apology needed on your part. Your last sentence says it all.


Jim Lloyd
157 Posted 14/12/2022 at 14:33:39
I don't think it's hate that is the primary emotion. It is the knowledge. (Some might say it's just hatred; I would argue with that view.)

The posts that I've read, for years, are pointing out the moves that have been made by this chairman, maybe unknowingly, that have continued to bring Everton Football Club to where we are now.

While at the same time he's become a multi-millionaire by those very moves. There is deep anger by a number of posters, including me, at his "mistakes" that have seen us lose the King's Dock Stadium.

The mistakes on the move to a "virtually free world class stadium" in Kirkby, while saying that our ground would fail its safety certificate.

The well known supporter of EFC, who was going to pour millions into the club, when Gregg was making his bid to takeover the club. Unfortunately, though, the cheque got lost when it was in the post. It must have been his last cheque, because he was never seen again.

Perhaps the refusal to the Sheikh Mansour enquiry to buy Everton, was a mistake.

I'm not so sure logic has gone out the window, certainly not amongst the majority of posters on ToffeeWeb. Certainly, logic in the form of selfishness, greed and desire to hang on to this club has been chosen over what is best for EFC... and its supporters.

If anything remotely like this had happened over the Park, there would have been a revolution.

Jim Lloyd
158 Posted 14/12/2022 at 14:46:03
Kevin (151),

I agree with you.

Tony Abrahams
159 Posted 14/12/2022 at 19:01:59
Anyone remember Bestway offering Everton the land to build a new stadium in Everton around the time of the Kirkby fiasco? It was a cracking site, just outside the city centre, but because of its location, in between the roads surrounding the Wallasey tunnel, Keith Wyeness said it wasn't logical because we would have to build some bridges.

As well as filling in a dock, Everton have now begun to build a bridge near Bramley-Moore Dock, but I suppose it's completely different when you've got the money to build.

I don't hate Bill Kenwright, I just hate what he's done to my football club over many years. I don't suppose this would have been possible without a general acceptance from a large percentage of our fan base. Is it possible to say a lot of Evertonians have unfortunately got the football club they deserve?

Laurie Hartley
160 Posted 14/12/2022 at 21:19:33
Jim # 148,

On the stadium development; got to step in here:

“Didn't Kenwright get put in overall charge of the stadium development?”.

I think it may have been Denise Barrett-Baxendale but the only people who should be getting any credit for possibly the one thing that is being done successfully by the club is Colin Chong, the project director, and his team, and to be fair our owner who appointed him and provided him with the money to build it.

Colin Chong is a true professional going by what I am seeing.

Jim Lloyd
161 Posted 14/12/2022 at 22:52:25
Spot on, Laurie,

Colin Chong is the man who's orchestrating the construction and our American is back on board for internal things (can't remember what but made up that he is!)

I think I remember Kenwright being given overall control but it may be just an honorary post. Does bugger all but will get the accolades.

Alan J Thompson
162 Posted 15/12/2022 at 06:07:01
Is it all Kenwright's fault and does Moshiri have to shoulder some of the blame?

I wrote on another site at the time that I didn't think Kenwright was the man for the job when he said he was trying to put together a consortium to raise the £50M (actually £25M) to buy Everton and that he could have bought the club several years earlier for £5M – obviously knows a bargain when he sees one.

If Moshiri is to take some of the blame (more than the 5% he wanted?) then should we ask who brought him in? And when we know that, should we ask who brought that person in? – and how much of the blame should be apportioned to whom.

Nothing seems straight-forward and obvious in Everton's hierarchy and certainly nobody is taking ownership of any blame at all. Tangled webs, eh.

Jerome Shields
163 Posted 15/12/2022 at 09:05:38
Alan #162

Moshiri was simply sold a pup by Kenwright. Moshiri was convinced by Kenwright that all he had to do was put money into Everton, having bought Kenwright's shares. He bought into Kenwright's hype that Everton were punching above their weight, and money would move them on. Other suitors didn't agree. Even I was convinced of this by Kenwright, until I saw him with money and then looked back on what he had done prior to the takeover.

Moshiri agreed to a structure that he has been unable to change, after numerous half-baked attempts, when his money went South. It has taken the Premier League to bring some reality to the situation, but even they have been convinced of the need to be lenient.

IMO, Kenwright has been a gangster from the start and Moshiri a goose who has lost some golden eggs. But when you look at the new Everton Stadium development, the scenerio may be different in that Moshiri's main objective may have been a Docklands Development.

As you say, nothing is straight-forward or obvious, but this is often the case when an organisation is being run for self-interest, rather than commercial reasons. Everton is collateral damage been self-interest and ulterior motives, other than running the club as a commercial enterprise.

Michael Kenrick
164 Posted 15/12/2022 at 09:48:01

Most of the stuff you write just doesn't make any sense:

"Everton is collateral damage been self-interest and ulterior motives, other than running the club as a commercial enterprise."

That's not even English. But, if I try to read between the lines, you are claiming that the club is not being run as a commercial enterprise. What evidence do you have for this?

I would rather maintain that, as very much a commercial enterprise with a very precious place within a potentially very profitable niche market, it is not being run as effectively as it should be.

That is very different to your claim that it is (presumably) being run for self-interest (whose exactly?) and ulterior motives (what ulterior motives?).

Surely greater commerical returns would in fact be fully consistent with this "self-interest" and these "ulterior motives"... wouldn't they?

Ian Bennett
165 Posted 15/12/2022 at 10:27:34
The bottom line is that Calvert-Lewin has remained injury prone, whilst Maupay has proved even more average than we realised.

Of all the players in the world, chasing after McNeil has delivered exactly what we all thought. A lad that's so slow and delivers nothing.

We were a poor side last season, and whilst the defence has been stiffened, we have zero goal threat. In possession of the ball, we are largely clueless.

It remains a long season ahead, as long as we have this type of player on the pitch. Far smaller clubs seem to be getting it right.

Laurie Hartley
166 Posted 15/12/2022 at 11:01:04
Back to the title of this thread.

Yes, Frank, we are where we are at and your job is to get us to a better place than where we are at – as quickly as possible.

Jerome Shields
167 Posted 15/12/2022 at 12:22:05
Michael #64,

I agree that it is a commercial enterprise in a very special place in a potentially profitable niche market, not being effectively run. My explanation centred on Alan pointing out that nothing appears straight-forward or obvious and no-one is prepared to shoulder the blame. Which I considered was well observed by him.

The self-interest that I mention is that of Kenwright & Co to maintain their positions seemingly unaccountable for performance and, Moshiri with his arms-length management and impressive progress building a stadium.

I speak of ulterior (thank you for the correct spelling, which I did look up without success) motives as a way of explanation of why the Club is not being effectively run. Both parties do not seem to have the objective of effectively addressing the basic problem of the club not being run commercially effectively. It could be that they are not up to it, but no accountability is evident, other than what appear to be token changes on the footballing side. Changing the manager is not a worthwhile option now.

I don't think this can go on much longer and even the realisation of a completed stadium could be the catalyst for necessary change.

Thank you for your interesting reply.

Jerome Shields
169 Posted 15/12/2022 at 12:31:53
Michael #64

Commercial underperformance I based on Paul the Esk's analysis and the reliance on dig outs from Moshiri.

Sorry I somehow managed to delete my response but will post later.

Robert Tressell
170 Posted 15/12/2022 at 13:20:03
Good point, Ian @165,

With a front 3 of Maupay, Gray or Gordon and McNeil – do we have the weakest attack in the Premier League?


- Awoyoni, Johnson and Dennis @ Forest
- Solanke, Moore and Tavernier @ Bournemouth
- Podence, Guedes and Hwang @ Wolves
- Adams, Armstrong and Elyounoussi @ Saints

We need more firepower because, without Calvert-Lewin to rely on, we look pretty poor.

Tony Everan
171 Posted 15/12/2022 at 13:50:34
Robert, I wouldn't bet too much on us outscoring any of them as we stand.

Also, Calvert-Lewin has been largely out for 18 months. Even if he does get fully fit and returns, it will take time and also a prolonged injury-free run for him to get to his A-Game.

There's absolutely no way the club should be factoring in relying on Calvert-Lewin to rescue our goal-scoring drought. It would be folly. We need a quality replacement goalscorer now, who can hit the ground running. Anything less and we're playing Russian Roulette with three bullets in the barrel.

Pete Clarke
172 Posted 15/12/2022 at 14:24:25
Moshiri is a billionaire through being an accountant with very good contacts. He knows nothing at all about football and running a club. His ignorance in keeping Kenwright has cost us a big opportunity to become a great club again.

Bill Kenwright is a playwright and a dreamer. He knows absolutely fuck all about football or running a club and the current state of Everton Football Club is down to his ignorance towards the club and his greed in lining his own pockets.

Abramovich at Chelsea has been mentioned. He is a football lover, went to every game and he understood what it took to win trophies and therefore employed winners. He sacked winners and was even hard enough to get rid of a club legend, our current manager, to keep success at his club. He was in control of that club.

So our owner, who knows nothing about running the club, is in Monaco most of the time and leaves it to the chairman to run things but the said chairman has proved to be a total failure over the years and is in London most of the time anyway. That chairman then leaves it to Denise Barrett-Baxendale who has no experience so she asks Sharpy to take over.

In the end, the whole running of the club comes down to whoever is at Finch Farm on a Monday morning.

Is it any wonder there have been so many managerial changes and so many poor players at the club when the guys at the top are not focused on the football side of things? They wouldn't know what true football is about, of course. This trend will continue as long as they are in charge.

Frank is giving up. That rambling of his showed everything I need to see. The job is just too much for him – especially with the players he has. Richarlison saved his skin last season and also a little help from Delph towards the end.

This team of Frank's right now are just piss poor and there's no strength or cutting edge to it at all. I'll be amazed if we survive this season and I can see Frank Lampard being sacked if we are badly beaten against Wolves. This mess is not his fault but he's gonna take the blame for it.

Without leadership there is nothing. We need a Colin Chong type in charge of the club.

Sean Roe
173 Posted 15/12/2022 at 14:26:42
It's all very well getting a striker in but if we continue to play the ball constantly sideways and backwards then it won't make any difference who we have up front.

I don't think Maupay is great but we have hardly played to his strengths. I still think we need somebody in central midfield who can turn defence into attack, as well as somebody to put the ball in the net obviously.

Bill Gall
174 Posted 15/12/2022 at 14:39:50
First, for those who think differently, I am not a Bill Kenwright supporter; I have never met him and I do not like or hate someone I have never met.

Who do I blame for him being at the club? Since the takeover and the following seasons, the only person that can fire him is Farhad Moshiri.

As far as the new stadium goes, on 26 July 2019, the club issued a statement. DBB will oversee the work of Stadium Development Director Colin Chong and take responsibility for the new Stadium Project, including the delivery of a community-led legacy project at Goodison Park.

To me, that means Colin Chong is responsible for the building of the Stadium and DBB looks after any problems with local or government permits, heritage or contractors or any other problems that may arise during the building.

James Flynn
175 Posted 15/12/2022 at 15:24:55
Work out a deal with Cardiff to bring back Nkounkou. They're not going anywhere this season. Neils is by far the best left-footer on the entire Everton roster. By far! And he knows how to use it.

He's a terrible defender, but put him in front of Myklolenko and watch.

I posted his game highlights in the ToffeeWeb Loanwatch (Update) thread yesterday. See for yourself and tell me if I'm wrong.

If you're going to look at all his defensive gaffes though, I suggest you do so through your fingers. He's a scary bad left-back.

Michael Kenrick
176 Posted 15/12/2022 at 15:32:37

Thanks for your explanation, which I was able to recover @167.

I'm in two minds about relying on Paul the Esk's analyses. While I'm sure he's a good professional businessman (and I surely am not), his critical analyses always come with portents of dire consequence and impending doom, which do not generally follow. This lack of follow-through could be taken to suggest that either his analyses or his projections (or both!) are in error.

The club continues to be run as a football club and, as far as we can discern, within the strictures of Profit and Sustainability Rules, despite large losses. Those losses have in part been through the admirable but failed quest for success on the field, which has been astounding in its magnitude, and suggests almost complete incompetence when it comes to key footballing decisions – managers, players, likely extending to coaching and medical staff – if results are indicative of performance at all levels on the footballing side of the club.

And yet the club is proceeding a-pace with a fantastic new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock. It's hard for me to cast this Herculean effort in terms of self-interest and ulterior motives as it is being funded seemingly out of the pure generosity of heart from our absentee owner, and will be a symbol of his munificent magnificence for many years to come (sea-level rise notwithstanding).

Now I am absolutely certain that Bill Kenwright derives enormous self-gratification for his ability to maintain his position as Chairman of Everton Football Club. Yes, manifest self-interest when so many fans (hopefully increasingly) can cite an extensive litany of heinous crimes that provide just cause to despise him and want him gone.

But as Darren confirms, this has been the case for years and years and years. From the sale of Richarlison this year, right back to the sale of Rooney in 2004. His longevity defies all logic. These last 18 months should surely have been enough to convince him it was time to step down.

So yes, the fact that he is still there does smack of self-interest; yet we have the conflicting narrative that he is not really involved in the day-to-day running of the club, which should indeed be in the hands of the executive directors and on down through the corporate business structure. So just how much can he still be blamed for the poor decisions that continue to be made, which are, it is claimed, the underlying cause of our continued demise as a top club?

As Chairman, it could be argued that he has been responsible for the make-up and continuing changes to the Board of Directors, and is the one who has set the tone for day-to-day management and decision-making – indeed for the entire club ethos that is (we are told) rotten to the core. It seems (again, based on results on and off the field, apart from the new stadium) to be this that is perennially dragging us down.

But back to your post: I struggle to get any 'ulterior motive' out of that little lot. The motive seems all too clear: to hang on to power until the bitter end.

Tony Abrahams
177 Posted 15/12/2022 at 19:10:24
To the bitter end, or until the new stadium is built?

From the outside looking in, it does look as though our chairman thinks that Moshiri delivering the new stadium will suddenly make Mr Good Times's tenure a complete success.

Tony Abrahams
178 Posted 15/12/2022 at 19:40:50
You could argue that self-interest and ulterior motive are exactly what is driving Moshri on with regards to our magnificent stadium, which is beginning to rise out of the dock.

I personally think his reign in charge of Everton has been nothing short of disastrous. If he needs or wants to sell Everton, then this is probably the only way he's going to succeed, whilst trying to claw as much money back as possible from any given sale.

It shouldn't really matter, but hopefully Kenwright doesn't get to cut the ribbon, or even better, is not even around when the ribbon gets cut on the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock, because he's been nothing but a curse on Everton Football Club, and has constantly lowered our standards, leaving us light-years away from what we once stood for as a football club

Jerome Shields
179 Posted 15/12/2022 at 19:47:36
Michael #176,

I concede that doom and gloom is overplayed. A perennial crying of wolf, which does not seem to be fully realised as Everton go into the rest of the season. I don't think any business is as easily analysed as that.

In my own affairs, though successful, I would have considered myself to be in financial difficulty for most of the duration. I see accounting as a catch-up process to the cold face reality of actually successful trading.

I concede Kenwright will never leave until he has to and I would doubt that he will be that easy to get rid of, even if the club is sold. He is sure to have an input into such a process.

There is no doubt that there has been numerous attempts to reconfigure Everton on the playing side, with a lot of money inputed. The extraordinary and effective development and funding of the Stadium, which will be completed, is another signal of effective intent. Everton are within the Profit and Sustainability Rules and are working with, and are seen to have, the trust of the Premier League, as you state.

Actually in using the word 'alterer' it was I thought a word closer to my meaning than 'ulterior'. But there is no such word as 'alterior', when I looked it up just now. I did not want to give the impression of anything hidden.

What I was suggesting was that the determined control of Kenwright over Everton, was at odds with Moshiri's arm's length management and his wanting to control big-ticket items, resulting in a lack of planning, a lack of coherent objectives, and noticeable loss of way for both parties in implementing anything successful that would improve Everton on the pitch.

It could be that the lack of accountability could be the result of these cross purposes and explains Alan's observation of nothing straight-forward and obvious. Clearly, there is no animosity between these two parties on these issues.

I don't really want to get into the blame game of Kenwright and Moshiri and "off with their heads" solutions. I have given up on that months ago. I really would prefer proper discussion of where the practical problems actually exist and possible solutions, since I feel that there is momentum with the Stadium completion to carry Everton forward. In a lot of ways, your challenging of the doom and gloom is better agenda-setting for the roller-coaster weeks ahead.

I am glad the Minnesota takeover appears to be a damp squib, and more meaningful news on that front is appearing. More consistent with actual progress at Everton, which hopefully Frank will eventually mirror on the pitch.

Dale Self
180 Posted 15/12/2022 at 20:19:34
If I may, that's a damp squib much like many of Bill's ideas. A bit late to this so I'll keep it short.

I think Michael's penultimate paragraph is the key; Bill is responsible for how the club is staffed and how any advice given to Moshiri turned potential into shite.

By Moshiri's word, Bill was consulted on the football matters, and he kept to the business side. Bill knows it has turned to shit but the first response of a charlatan is to turn on his detractors and dig in, it's sad.

He will be here until the fucking Bill goddamn Kenwright Stand is unveiled and then there might be a chance he will take the most anticipated curtain call of our times.

Brendan McLaughlin
181 Posted 15/12/2022 at 20:29:36
Dale #180,

"By Moshiri's word Bill was consulted on the football matters and he kept to the business side."

News to me. I don't recall Moshiri making any such claim but perhaps I've just missed it. Where are you getting that from?

Ian Riley
183 Posted 15/12/2022 at 20:40:56
On the pitch. Frank! Wins must come soon.

Nothing matters currently at board level. New stadium well underway. Staying a Premier League club is crucial for new owners potentially.

Stay positive all!!!

Kieran Kinsella
184 Posted 15/12/2022 at 20:49:40
Tom Davies in The Echo:

"We've had a few managers that have sort of distanced themselves from the fans and maybe the squad, so it feels like us and them."

Koeman? Rafa?

"That's maybe where we've gone astray in the last couple of years. We've maybe tried to become something we're not."

Professional? Good at Football?

Dale Self
185 Posted 15/12/2022 at 21:14:31
Brendan, it was early on while Bill still had some credibility and may not characterize the present arrangement. It was offered as assurance to a question on what he brings to football ownership and he perhaps was just saying he would be consulting his good friend.

Why the hell is Tom talking to the press? Frank! get those guys in line.

Dale Self
186 Posted 15/12/2022 at 21:33:43
I gave it a look and could not find the reference, Brendan. I could just be retarded or maybe just slave to a deep-seated disdain for the bloated one.
Brendan McLaughlin
187 Posted 15/12/2022 at 21:51:17
No worries, Dale #186,

Moshiri has never actually said that much publicly but I do recall that, early in his tenure, he stated something to the effect that his role was to, aided by the Chairman, bring the "best" manager available to the club and back him financially. That certainly didn't suggest to me that he felt the Chairman would have a significant role in footballing matters going forward.

I've always felt Moshiri adhered to that early (outdated ?) philosophy but unfortunately he got his choice of managers very badly wrong.

Dale Self
188 Posted 15/12/2022 at 22:32:54
Fair enough on the Billology. While I have my thoughts, I don't want to be posting opinion as though it is a public statement, so good check there.

I would take the other side of giving Bill a pass on a significant role. Moshiri might make the final decision but Bill's people were in place and I didn't notice any kind of clear out that would indicate Moshiri was putting his signature on the place.

I believe he trusted Bill and got burned alright but he's had plenty of chances to put Bill in his proper place as observer and take the reigns by publicly stating the roles of various players. Seems to me he was keeping them around as confidantes and future scapegoats. Pure speculation there.

Brendan McLaughlin
189 Posted 15/12/2022 at 23:00:41
Dale #188

Ha ha... Billology... a science that obviously involves the rectum? No?

That's kinda of the point I was making. Moshiri believed it was all down to getting the manager right and backing him... so clearing out the Kenwright infrastructure wasn't a priority... in fact, it probably wasn't even seen as desirable given his 5% comment.

Danny Baily
190 Posted 16/12/2022 at 07:34:27
There is no Kenwright structure. There are no 'Bill's people'. We're just rubbish, and we have an inexperienced manager at the helm (who we as fans insisted on).
Steve Brown
191 Posted 16/12/2022 at 08:57:02
Danny, 'there is no Kenwright structure.'

Every decision Bill Kenwright has made since 2004 has been aimed at establishing a power structure at the club that retained a role for him as Chairman.

Now whether you think he has been a positive, negative or mixed influence on the club, there is only one question that needs to be answered about him :

"Does it serve Bill Kenwright's or the club's interests any longer for him to continue with the role of Chairman at Everton?"

I'd be interested in your answer.

Jerome Shields
192 Posted 16/12/2022 at 09:30:52
Dale #189,

It probably was Bill's idea.

Tony Abrahams
193 Posted 16/12/2022 at 09:40:07
Seriously, Steve? This makes it sound like Bill Kenwright was telling lies when he said that clubs are often on the phone, asking what would Everton do?

The once great Everton got renamed. They even got applauded for punching above their weight because, even though they stopped existing to win, they were doing it on a shoestring budget.

Kenwright's reign has been full of lies, nepotism, and constantly putting himself before the club. That's the only obvious structure that I can personally see, confirmed by his ludicrous choice of words on Goodison Road not so long ago.

Steve Brown
194 Posted 16/12/2022 at 09:59:45
I agree Tony.

Even if other fans have a different perspective, it serves no purpose and benefits no-one for him to remain.

And that includes Kenwright. It’s time for him to exit stage left.

Kevin Prytherch
195 Posted 16/12/2022 at 10:21:36
The baffling part of this debate is how Kenwright gets blamed for every failing under Moshiri.

Yes, he needs to go because we are a poorly run club with a terrible marketing and merchandising strategy and, as chairman, he is responsible for ensuring this is rectified.

However, Moshiri appointed countless managers and two directors of football who were like kids in sweet shops – spending ridiculous money and extortionate wages on bang-average players. That part doesn't lie with Kenwright and it is that part that has primarily resulted in the club being where it is now.

Tony Abrahams
196 Posted 16/12/2022 at 10:22:56
Hopefully it's going to happen soon, Steve, but as I keep saying, I honestly believe that Bill Kenwright will think he's been a massive success at Everton once the new stadium opens, so he's most probably trying to hang on until it's complete.

I'm fed up talking about the man because our club has obviously got a lot of other problems and I don't believe things will get better just because the man has gone.

I don't even want the richest owners we can find (I don't think there are many richer than Big Al) because we have gone down that route and found out the hard way that, unless you have got a genuine forward-thinking plan, then you are not going to move forward in life.

This is why I detest what Bill Kenwright has done to Everton; whilst our fortunes have rarely ever been lower, the man himself has continued to flourish, and this has even enabled him to buy his own theatre not so long ago.

Danny Baily
198 Posted 16/12/2022 at 12:35:46
Steve 191, it makes no odds if Bill Kenwright stays on as Chairman.

What I find baffling about this is that, away from the field, we're well-run. We're building an iconic stadium and we've been able to spend, despite geopolitical events causing us to lose major sponsorship deals and our main benefactor behind the scenes. We've also secured record sponsorship deals, even if the majority find the sponsors themselves to be unpalatable.

Our real grievances with Everton lie on the pitch, whether we're ready to admit that to ourselves yet or not. Managerial and DoF changes (all but one of which at our behest as fans) have left us with a poorly balanced squad and an inexperienced manager. As recently as the summer, we brought in Maupay and McNeil, who we'll no doubt seek to (and struggle to) move on in the very near future.

Now the international break is effectively over, we can get back to the football and away from the Kenwright conspiracy theories. Let's hope we can put a run of results together. We need 7 or so wins to stay up and there's 7 or so winnable games left.

Jim Lloyd
199 Posted 16/12/2022 at 12:46:48
Yes, you're possibly right on that score, Kevin. But as a Chairman, he's certainly taken part in the discussions and negotiations for players, and as the Chairman, he carries the can for all the doings of the directors. He must have picked the likes of Graham Sharp and David Prentice.

They're not the major faults within the club since Moshiri was invited to take part in the club. And as Chairman, he either sat there and just counted his money while Moshiri single-handedly caused the damage, or he went along with him.

Either way, we're in fairly dire straits. On the football side and the commercial side. Like Tony above, I'd rather be talking about why we're not a rich club on the commercial side and why we are not in the Top 4, not the Bottom 4.

Dave Abrahams
200 Posted 16/12/2022 at 12:50:54
Kevin (195),

I think as chairman Kenwright negotiated all those contracts and also did his share of bringing players to the club.

Steve Brown
201 Posted 16/12/2022 at 13:54:49
Danny @ 198, Everton are not a well-run club off the field.

The commercial department has only delivered 'record deals' because the sponsorships negotiated were a disaster. Our shirt sponsorship deal is £10 million a year compared to £59 million for the red shite.

Our shirt sleeve sponsorship deal is worth £1.2 million, while theirs is worth £10 million. Their commercial revenue is 241 million and ours is £35 million. Our match-day income is one of the lowest in the Premier League: £12 million compared to £84 million for the redshite (even Brighton generate more match-day revenue than us).

And that is before we consider the £500 million spunked on our recruitment policy since 2016. And the biggest issue is our manager? This club has been mismanaged right from the top and there seems to be no signs of improvement.

Until that is sorted, no manager will succeed at this club – as the last 18 years have amply proven.

Tony Abrahams
202 Posted 16/12/2022 at 13:55:06
Everton are not a well run club.
Everton are not a well run club.
Everton are not a well run club.

Moshiri has lost a fortune because Everton are not a well run club.

Bill Kenwright has made a fortune even though Everton are not only a badly run club, they have also failed to win a trophy for 28 very long seasons.

Under Bill Kenwright's tenure, Everton have become a relic of what they once stood for.

Hopefully soon Farhad Moshiri sells Everton, and the club can begin to wash away the years of just existing.

Everton are a well run club? Wow, say anything often enough and some people will obviously believe anything!!! 🤷‍♂️

Danny O’Neill
203 Posted 16/12/2022 at 17:52:24
I've was travelling yesterday and I'm away for the weekend.

I had to double-check that the Danny comments above hadn't been me.

I will always unreservedly support any Everton player when they cross that white line, just as I have done all of my life.

Danny B, you, like many, put some good, considered thoughts on here. Like all of us, we won't always agree.

Bar the all-too-brief '80s period, where on-the-pitch management disguised what was happening in the bigger scheme of things, we've been badly run off the pitch since the '70s. The mismanagement has deteriorated and steadily declined since we last won the league in 1987. We don't want to be a Museum? Take a look at Goodison Park. We love her, but she's a relic.

It is now nearly 36 years since I watched Everton clinch the title at Carrow Road and travelled home thinking there can be no better feeling in the world.

My most recent trip there, I watched us put in an abject performance at best and saw very frustrated supporters baying for blood. It wasn't pleasant to witness.

It won't stop me going to support the team, but the club has been terribly run.

The new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock is going to be magnificent and present an opportunity. The frustration is that it is 30 years behind schedule. As is the club's vision and ability to move on those who have failed. And the question is, can the club grasp this opportunity?

I'm supposed to be enjoying Christmas Markets.

Phillip Warrington
204 Posted 18/12/2022 at 07:12:53
It's getting pretty bad when Bournemouth supporters started chanting "We want to play you every week!"
Matthew Williams
205 Posted 19/12/2022 at 14:58:01
You're paid enough Frank... so turn it round... FAST!

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