Premier League clubs unsettled by timing of Everton charges

25/03/2023 187comments  |  Jump to last

According to a report by the Mail on Sunday, a number of Premier League clubs are seeking clarification over the decision to refer Everton to an independent commission over alleged breaches of financial rules just months after they were told the club were in compliance.

Everton were surprised on Friday when the League announced their decision which, depending on the severity of any recommended punishment, could have significant impacts on the club if the commission finds that they broke the Profitability and Sustainability rules.

The Mail's report by Matt Hughes suggests that there unease among many executives at other top-flight clubs at the apparent U-turn by the Premier League and concern that the timing of the move is politically motivated, with CEO Richard Masters set to go before a Parliamentary hearing on sports governance this coming Tuesday.

It also comes in the wake of the revelation that the Premier League have charged Manchester City with a catalogue of breaches of financial conduct stretching back over the last decade and amid a wider discussion over whether the Government should install an independent regulator to oversee professional football in the UK.

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In Everton's case, Leeds United and Burnley wrote to the Premier League in May last year accusing the Blues of being in breach of financial regulations, with both clubs asking that an independent commission be formed to investigate the situation.

Everton responded by insisting that they were in continuous dialogue with the League and that both parties were comfortable that the club was in compliance.

That appears to have been echoed by the Premier League at shareholders meetings on two separate occasions last year, first in March and then in the summer, with Everton subject to extra scrutiny of their transfer dealings, a mandate to raise capital via player sales before the end of the 2021-22 financial year which saw Richarlison sold to Tottenham Hotspur for an initial £50m, and restrictions imposed on incoming transfers if they weren't offset by further outgoings.

According to Hughes in the Mail, clubs are angered by the timing of Friday's announcement and question why, if the League felt Everton had contravened the regulations, they failed to address the situation last summer, thereby affecting the current relegation battle.

Any ruling by the commission isn't expected to come until the summer at the earliest meaning any punishment levied against Everton won't come into effect until next season at the earliest.

"The Everton charge is very surprising," one Premier League executive told the Mail On Sunday. "We sat in front of the Premier League around March last year and they categorically told us there was no case to answer.

"Then, in the summer, we were told Everton could sign players as they were working together with the League to stay the right side of the line, and their Covid losses made them compliant.

"The Premier League made these points in open meetings and also held private meetings with individual clubs who had expressed concerns." 

Quotes sourced from Mail On Sunday

Reader Comments (187)

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Liam Heffernan
1 Posted 26/03/2023 at 19:15:36
Very strange this.

I never subscribed to the idea that we were picked on by the Premier League (for whatever reason), but this does make me wonder.

Robert Tressell
2 Posted 26/03/2023 at 19:52:57
I genuinely think there is some truth in the conspiracy type theories. Our uninterrupted Premier League status undermines the Big 6 (or 7) aspirations of a European Super League.

Though very much the paupers, we have a greater heritage than some (most?) of the upstarts. Relegation would weaken our dissenting voice very considerably.

Andrew Heffernan
3 Posted 26/03/2023 at 20:01:30
We are where we are because of the actions of the Board and successive management regimes, approved by the board – people need to get over conspiracy theories.

On the face of it, Everton are a badly run club and, on the allegations in the Mail article, focused on Kenwright quoting several named/unnamed sources, were a basket-case of a club.

Jim Wilson
4 Posted 26/03/2023 at 20:38:11
One thing for sure. You do not deduct points when a club is striving to stay within the rules, as ridiculous as the rules are.

You deduct points when a club is deliberately breaking the rules. For example, setting up a new league behind The Premier League's back.

There needs to be an independent enquiry into the affairs of the Premier League. And this should have been done 20 years ago.

John Raftery
5 Posted 26/03/2023 at 20:44:00
When this news broke on Friday afternoon, my immediate reaction was the referral to an independent commission was designed to protect the Premier League's backs.

We will know more when the accounts are finally published this week but, if this was an open-and-shut case of flagrant financial breaches, the Premier League would surely have seen no need for an independent inquiry. They would have simply moved straight to the laying of charges.

Our transfer outgoings over the last four windows, with oversight from the Premier League, have been somewhere between modest in the summer of 2021 to non-existent in January 2023. If there is a surprise lurking within the accounts, I suspect it may concern our loss of sponsorship money from USM etc. Following our Covid losses, the Premier League may have taken the view this time round independent corroboration will serve to stave off possible action on the part of other clubs.

That's my optimistic view. The pessimistic view that the club have either messed up their sums or indulged in false accounting doesn't bear thinking about.

Jim Wilson
6 Posted 26/03/2023 at 20:44:44
Robert @2.

You are absolutely right. There most definitely is some truth in the conspiracy-type theories.

You only have to look at all the on-pitch decisions made against us. And then compare them to what happens to the the Top 5 or 6 clubs.

Will Mabon
7 Posted 26/03/2023 at 20:45:34
Nice to see open mindedness about the possibilities. Many things of large scale and import are rarely limited to just one simple aspect.
Brian Wilkinson
8 Posted 26/03/2023 at 20:48:56
John @5 you are spot on, and those 6 teams who signed a deal without first giving the Premier Leaague notice all broke the rules.

They all picked up a small fine which then got waved away, so they never paid a single penny.

If they come down on Everton, then the above needs to be brought up.

Barry Hesketh
9 Posted 26/03/2023 at 21:09:13
I see there is still confusion about the difference between referral to the independent commission and the 'charging' of the club.

As I understand things, the Premier League wouldn't 'charge' any club directly for any breach of its rules; it would always, if it deemed it necessary, refer the club to an independent commission to decide if there was a case to answer and, if there was a case to answer, the commission would decide upon what the punishment should be.

There could be an appeal by either the club in the dock or by the Premier League if either of them believed the commission's punishment to be too lenient or too harsh, the commission would then either ratify or alter their original decision and that would be the end of the case.

What I'm unsure of, is whether the Premier League would be 'honour bound' to accept the findings of the independent commission or whether it could ignore the commission's decision. I assume it would be crazy to believe the Premier League could do anything but adhere to the final decision.

I may have got things completely wrong in my musings above and if anyone has a different take, I'm all ears, or should that be eyes?

Anthony Hawkins
10 Posted 26/03/2023 at 21:19:42
Something is very askew if the Premier League stated in open meetings there was no case.

Either the Premier League are seeking to pacify Leeds and Burnley with the outcome likely the same – nothing to hide, or there's a stinking hole in our finances.

Mike Connolly
11 Posted 26/03/2023 at 21:30:36
Conspiracy sounds right.

First team to have a player suspended for simulation and no-one else since.

First team to be highlighted on the news for flying to the games.

And that's not counting all the blatant ref decisions against us. For years we've been done over by refs for not complaining. Now that we do surround the ref complaining, we get highlighted.

The Premier League have got it in for us.

John Raftery
12 Posted 26/03/2023 at 22:04:35
Barry (9),

I think you are right. The referral to an independent commission and a right of appeal to the commission is the process which the Premier League has established and which it is using in the case of Manchester City's alleged breaches.

What I am struggling with is why the Premier League have been less forthcoming about our alleged breaches compared with City's.

Alec Gaston
13 Posted 26/03/2023 at 22:07:22
For what it’s worth I don’t believe for one minute there is any conspiracy here, the timing does seem dubious ahead of the upcoming select theory however it would be no surprise if our board had “agreed” to the Premier Leagues requirements to stay within profit and sustainability rules and then decided to push them to the limits (covid) or even think they could push them more.

This feels like of the premier league being totally fed up of feeling hoodwinked by our board.

The recent events and lies told by the board about the fans and throwing them under the bus makes me convinced they are arrogant enough to think they can pull the wool over the premier league.

Conspiracy v Mismanagement, lies, arrogance and exhausting relationships with people (premier league and fans) who are trying to help

I know which one I would put my money on. Hopefully I am wrong - I see myself as an optimist but I have no faith in our board or owner to have done or do the right thing. All we have is a track record of lies and broken promises.(too many to list here)

Derek Thomas
14 Posted 26/03/2023 at 22:14:36
Its the Voltaire Deterrent; Pour en​cou​ra​ger les autres.
In order to encourage the others - said ironically of an action (such as an execution) carried out as a warning to others.

Big enough to be seen as an example - small enough not to derail the gravy train.

Paul Birmingham
15 Posted 26/03/2023 at 22:52:28
This gets murkier, but is their wider implications, not just on Everton, but the potential the EPL, and their investigations, and outputs, are non compliant?

But the timing and what basis, of this allegation, regards Everton's undertakings, must come out soon?

But who at this stage aside from the board and the EPL, know the context and potential implications, for all parties, at this stage?

But valid reasons to recruit a new Everton Board, this summer, as much to provide protection and ring fence Everton FC, (easier said than done, and to mitigate risk, with the dysfunctional, and erratic EPL).

God only knows, but there feels like some fudging of facts, potentially by the EPL, and God forbid, Everton.

Surely any previous final reviews, and their aftermath, on Everton’s previous investigations, must have been signed off by all parties, and must be statue in legal terms?

Focus, on Spurs, and no more to beat Spurs, tomorrow, week.


Ben King
16 Posted 26/03/2023 at 23:27:27
If the EPL have referred us to an independent commission ahead of the Government decision as to whether an independent regulator is required or not…..

…..then surely the EPL have shot themselves in the foot?

Anyone with half a brain would query the EPL saying Everton have been compliant, the EPL have signed off on subsequent transfer business and yet the EPL have referred us to an independent commission?!?!?!

The Government (or ANYONE with a brain) would look at the absurdity of the situation and say that the EPL don’t have a clue: get an independent regulator in.

Kieran Kinsella
17 Posted 26/03/2023 at 23:32:57
The conspiracy involved letting us get away with it for so long. The losses were ludicrous. It’s not a matter of guilt it’s a matter of choosing a punishment. But that will be tricky given a handful of teams tried to create an entire new rival league and got a mere slap on the wrist
Tony Everan
18 Posted 26/03/2023 at 23:36:16
So in the middle of this 21/22 season when we are allegedly in breach we decide to sign Dele Alli, on a 2 1/2 year £12.5 m contract, with 4 x £10m transfer fees agreed every 20 games.

Whether you think it was a worthwhile gamble or not, would we do that if we were walking a financial P&S tightrope at the beginning of 2022?

Our board are incompetent but they are not mentally incapacitated.

John Pickles
19 Posted 26/03/2023 at 00:08:19
I think this highlights just how unfair FFP is to aspiring clubs.

Everton spent an awful lot of money on very poor players, but we needed to spend a lot of money to match the teams at the top. If we had of spent that money on very good players, chances are we still would have fallen foul of FFP. We are in the red by 100's of millions of pounds, with only 4 teams making the Champions League, it's unlikely we would have recouped that figure in the allotted time.

Christine Foster
20 Posted 27/03/2023 at 01:01:23
You know, I wouldn't blame Everton for walking away and joining any European Super league if they would have them.. there is going to come a time when Premier league clubs are going to have had enough..
When you have Chelsea reworking accountancy rules, spending a fortune, Forest buying a new team, and of course Man City who bare faced rode rough shod over all the rules.. then you have Everton, yep, their crime? Year on year Incompetence.
But hey, thats ok, they now have their scapegoat again, and again..
Kieran Kinsella
21 Posted 27/03/2023 at 01:27:05
You forgot Newcastles unfit state owners Christine.
Bill Gienapp
22 Posted 27/03/2023 at 03:20:20
While I don't really buy into the conspiracy theories either, I *do* think we're seen as an easy mark any time the Premier League needs to make some performative show of authority.

Kenwright isn't good for much these days, but he *does* seem to be an expert at self-preservation when threatened, so let's hope he can put some of that dark magic to use for the benefit of the club for once.

Danny O’Neill
23 Posted 27/03/2023 at 06:32:55
Profit and Sustainability John @19. FFP is a UEFA thing for those in European competition. Sorry, pet hate!!

I think FFP is, as you say, covertly designed to keep the elite in their elite club and make it difficult for those aspiring clubs to get past the door man. Name not on the list, you're not coming in type of thing!

I'd have to study, but P&S, even if applied fairly, may still make it difficult, but if a club does generate income, they can spend it as I understand. It's when they spend what they don't have it becomes a matter for the regulators. We spent more than what we generated, so broke the rules, even though we were apparently in consultation with the FA. What has changed? I have no idea.

But then someone more educated tell me how Chelsea can spend approximately £500 million in one window, allegedly, and not break the rules? Yes they are continuously in the Champions League and their revenues dwarfs Everton, but even that seems an unrealistic amount for any club in one window?

And Nottingham Forest buying 30 players, or whatever it was? Despite their promotion windfall, that surely tips them over the edge?

If, and a big IF, this is applied across the board, the Everton saga could have opened a can of worms for the FA if they genuinely go and scrutinise everyone's books. I can just see many an accountant furiously scribbling away in a dark room across the country right now.

I suppose that isn't applicable right now and will be subject to when they have to present the books for the 2022/23 season?

Mal van Schaick
24 Posted 27/03/2023 at 06:39:04
If a club with Everton's history is standing in the way of so-called bigger clubs forming a Super League, and the only way to remove us as a problem to their ambitious plan is by conducting a smear campaign, then this is the end of the Premier League as we know it, and the implosion of the league will lead to the demise of the Football League as a whole. Be careful what you wish for!
Ian Hollingworth
25 Posted 27/03/2023 at 07:53:37
Whatever it is we are in some sort of a mess.
The owner and the board are solely responsible for this and their incompetence means we are selling our better players with little chance of replacing them.
They cannot blame a mystery headlock or anything else for this as the blame lies firmly at their feet and we shouldn’t forget this.
Ian Jones
26 Posted 27/03/2023 at 08:00:09
There is no conspiracy, just a very badly run club.

The finances are a mess and obviously have been a disaster for years.

Whilst it is undoubtedly unfair to the supporters and would be sad and life-changing for some employees who might be affected through no fault of their own, I feel the club deserves to be relegated, either through our own playing ability or by punishment via points deduction.

If you haven't already listened to it, there is a great podcast on ToffeeWeb within the following article 'ToffeeWeb Podcast: Finances Special with The Esk'

It would be interesting to see what punishment could be meted out if we were relegated naturally and subsequently found guilty. My understanding from the podcast is that whilst there are set tariffs for punishment within the Championship such as points deductions, there are no such tariffs within the Premier League, so any punishment can be appealed further delayong any 'agreed' outcome.

Pete Neilson
27 Posted 27/03/2023 at 08:05:31
Timing of the referral seems odd and we probably are being used as a political football by the PL to prove it doesn’t need government intervention. Regardless, it’s now down to our inept owner and board, who are ultimately responsible for the whole thing, to fight our corner. God help us.
Danny O’Neill
28 Posted 27/03/2023 at 08:27:07
Yes Ian @26. If anyone hasn't listened to it and has a spare 45 minutes, I recommend you do so. Stark, truthful and gives a lot of food for thought.
Laurie Hartley
29 Posted 27/03/2023 at 08:57:31
“It is an ill wind that blows nobody any good”. I wonder who pushed for this investigation?
Robert Tressell
30 Posted 27/03/2023 at 09:05:48
Ian # 26, we're certainly a very badly run club. But over the course of last season I began to doubt the conspiracy theories less and less until finally starting to believe there is a grain of truth in some of it.

To me, the logical sanction for us would be a transfer embargo. That would allow us to trade out of trouble. Indeed its not unlike what we've been doing voluntarily anyway since Ancelotti left.

It would be very hard but I expect we could just about manage, with Dyche at the helm.

Stephen Davies
31 Posted 27/03/2023 at 09:45:26
From The Telegraph

With each new set of accounts, Everton’s majority shareholder, Farhad Moshiri, has narrowly avoided a reckoning for his erratic running of the club.
Now there are grave fears that it is finally catching up with him.
Everton are contesting the Premier League’s decision to refer an allegation of a breach of profitability and sustainability regulations to an independent commission, but do not underestimate the sense of foreboding that it has gone this far. For a club in the midst of another relegation fight, the prospect of a points deduction flirts with Premier League doomsday.
No wonder the statement on Friday was received like a detonation, Everton employees were taken aback by the decision as – below ownership level, at least – there was no anticipation of any action, given how relatively prudent the club have been recently, and the belief there has been full transparency and co-operation with the Premier League.
Such a robust pursuit of one its members is unprecedented, evidence the new Premier League chair, Alison Brittain, is determined to hold clubs to account where in the past there have been accusations of leniency, not least last season when Burnley and Leeds United led the charges against Everton.
Although the alleged breaches follow the receipt of the accounting period between June 30, 2021 and July 31, 2022, it is the cumulative impact of previous financial results that has put the club in such jeopardy of serious sanctions.
Moshiri has been acting like a gambler chasing his losses since his first transfer splurges resulted in a failure which at first could have been described as appalling but may come to be more accurately described as catastrophic. In all, he has spent an estimated £700million on new players since 2016.
The club have been handing out extravagant contracts to underperforming players, and had to pay off six sacked managers – Roberto Martinez, Ronald Koeman, Sam Allardyce, Marco Silva, Rafa Benitez and Frank Lampard. He also spent a fortune recruiting Carlo Ancelotti, who later left for Real Madrid, and backed him with some extraordinary deals for the likes of James Rodriguez, who was paid £250,000 a week at a time when Everton were already in serious danger of being sanctioned.
The record shows how each time Everton have seemed to be on course for a more serene period – their former director of football Marcel Brands was among the sane voices advising of the perils of veering from a sane financial and recruitment course – the whims of the owner to scatter expensive stardust took hold. Moshiri has suggested he has deferred to recruiters on transfers, and fans when deciding to swing the axe. Whatever his motives or intentions, the consequences now promise to be dire.
Successive managers have inherited a mess trying to work with the limitations imposed by the financial fair play guidelines. It was Benitez’s job to navigate a course through in July 2021. There is some irony that the Premier League believe Everton tipped over the edge in a period which saw moderate spending on Andros Townsend, Demarai Gray and Salomon Rondon, while Benitez fought a PR battle to get Rodriguez off the wage bill. High-earners Bernard, Theo Walcott and Moise Kean also departed, and Lucas Digne – also on a significant salary – was sold to Aston Villa.
But Benitez’s unpopularity meant he, too, was fired, alongside his coaching staff, in January 2022 after signing Vitalii Mykolenko and Nathan Patterson. The cost of hiring Lampard and another backroom team was an avoidable expense had there been more foresight and clarity in previous decisions. The cost of Lampard’s subsequent dismissal will be covered in next year’s accounts.
As in previous seasons, Everton might have hoped that clear evidence of trying to remedy the errors of the past would demonstrate a move in the right direction.
They sold Richarlison last summer for a fee which could rise to £60 million, and by the time Anthony Gordon left for Newcastle United, Everton believed themselves to be in a position where they could afford to sign recruits.
The failure to do so in the final week of the January window may prove more expensive than many imagined at the time if they are forbidden from buying players this summer, although a temporary transfer ban would be infinitely more desirable than a points deduction.
It remains to be seen what Sean Dyche makes of it all. Last weekend, the manager was maintaining a positive momentum with a hard-earned point at Chelsea to edge Everton away from the bottom three.
It is inconceivable that he had prior notice of such a threat when agreeing to take the job. Some of Dyche’s predecessors felt they were working with two hands tied behind their back. Any possible points deduction is more likely to apply to next season, but if he is expected to rebuild despite an inability to sign players, Dyche, too, will feel like he is operating in a strait-jacket.

Nick Page
32 Posted 27/03/2023 at 09:56:48
If you don’t believe that the bigwigs running the PL, politicians and all the other self serving twats aren’t capable of nefarious activity you’re an idiot. Nothing, absolutely nothing is above board and as it seems - it’s all carefully stage managed to present it as some truth that unfortunately the brainwashed half wits swallow whole because they simply cannot accept that anyone would lie/cheat/steal from them to suit their own agenda. Naive doenst even begin to cover it. Everton/Kenwright and this shower have been at it for years at our (the fans) expense. No other club bends over like we do so you have to question that something goes on behind the scenes.

It’s absolutely sickening but until people make a stand, together nothing will change. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Dave Abrahams
33 Posted 27/03/2023 at 09:58:44
That report puts any discretions down to Moshiri alone, those below the owner thought they had done everything right to stop any breaches of profitability and sustainability without stating that Moshiri left the club in the hands of Kenwright and his chosen board of directors, a very biased report to be honest.
Joe McMahon
34 Posted 27/03/2023 at 10:06:35
Thanks for this Stephen, I said at the time and got slated on here that Carlo and James were a bad fit for a team with huge debt and no CL football. James on 1 million a month for a few good forward passes.

I say this with a heavy heart but the club unfortunately cannot argue with any punishment it gets. Kenwright has done us good and proper, and those who have stood by him "with at least he's one of us shit" I'm sure will still think the club is a scapegoat. Moshiri is Kenwrights man remember guys.

Brian Harrison
35 Posted 27/03/2023 at 10:41:52
The reason many of the other Premier league clubs are upset with the timing of Everton being referred to the independent commission, is because the Premier League officials sat in front of them and told them that Everton had no case to answer. This is when both Leeds and Burnley complained that Everton had exceeded the limits to what clubs were allowed to spend over a 3 year period. But all the evidence was there so why didn't they charge Everton then, that's what the other Premier league clubs are asking.
Everton's defence was to say that Covid had cost them losing £170m over 2 years, but when you compare what other clubs claimed for that period were practically half of what we claimed. How the Premier league swallowed those figures is unbelievable, just to put it into context this is what other clubs claimed as Covid losses for that 2 year period. Newcastle £40m, Aston Villa £56m, Arsenal £85m.

Then there is also the issue of who owned Everton, I think given all the facts its hard not to believe that Usmanov was the real owner. I know the club have categorically denied this but before he signed to become our manager, Ancelotti stated in the press that he had a 2 hour meeting with Usmanov before agreeing to become the manager. Also Benitez spent 2 days on Usmanovs Yacht of the coast of Sardinia before signing to replace Ancelotti as manager. I can never remember any sponsor of a club interviewing likely prospective managers so if he was just a sponsor how or why was this allowed.

So not only did we clearly transgress the rules, but we also have a close allay of Putin as our owner, and should this commission pursue that avenue we might be hit with a double whammy. I cant see how on earth Everton can persuade any independent commission that we didnt break the financial rules, and this clearly underlines the need for an independent commissioner to look after these issues as quite clearly the Premier league is unfit to do this job.

Kevin Molloy
36 Posted 27/03/2023 at 11:15:39
it's so great the PL are finally getting to grips with the corruption of the modern game. They just need to set an example by hitting one of the offending clubs, very hard indeed. And if Everton have to go out of business before the other oligarchs realise that this time it's serious, well that's got to be a price worth paying. You can't have teams like United and Liverpool playing by the rules the whole time only for us to come along and ruin it for everyone.
Danny O’Neill
37 Posted 27/03/2023 at 11:38:08
Paul @15,

The plot thickens and gets more confusing.

Now I'm seeing a tweet saying we want to sign Viktor Gyokeres and a £52M Brazilian starlet.

It came from the Echo's EFC News Twitter link.

All speculation of course, but seems odd in given the circumstances of the past few days.

Ian Edwards
38 Posted 27/03/2023 at 12:12:36
Just read a Sky source saying that he has heard that we made a signing in 2021/22 that took us over our agreed budgeting agreement with the Prem.
Joe McMahon
39 Posted 27/03/2023 at 12:39:58
Facing reality, yes we have remained in PL since its formation (just on several occasions, and having Gianluca Vialli to help us). But we don't acheive anything, we are never going to win it, and as far away from making the group stages of the CL as you can get due to the rise of so many other clubs.

A restart/reset is needed. If it gets rid of Kenwright and the board and stop living decades in the past. Don't know what happens RE BMD though.

Dale Self
40 Posted 27/03/2023 at 13:14:00
I did not do the research on this but there was mention of a white paper addressing financial rules to be released. That report was expected to overhaul the present system which has now proposed a revisited review of our 21-22 business

This looks like a late move to feign regulation where there is little method or action. That they chose us could be conspiracy but then again we looked the part I'm thinking this is not the story whereas the white paper will be.

Jim Wilson
41 Posted 27/03/2023 at 13:29:54
The whole thing stinks.

Yes the Everton board are incompetent but it is obvious they have been working with the PL and had been told everything is OK.

Everton have suffered 2 years of penalties by having their spending capped. That should be enough. We could be relegated at the end of this season and one of the reasons why is that we weren't allowed to spend big on a striker.

Just like VAR we now have to trust the fairness of the PL which only recently did nothing to the Super 6 after forming a new competition behind their backs. If there was ever a points deduction due this was it.

FFP was brought in clearly to help the top teams who had already spent stay at the top.

Everton having to sell Richarlison to Spurs demonstrates the obvious unfairness and on Monday night we will see the obvious unfairness of the match officials played out.

Personally, I think Everton should call the PL's bluff and say we have had enough of all this shit.

And it is shit without any doubt. The money spent by City, Chelsea, Manu, Liverpool etc. is outrageous. But that's ok let's pick on the club with the stupid board.

Will Mabon
42 Posted 27/03/2023 at 13:31:37

the source we really need is one that shows the detail of the arrangement with the Premier League. Absent this we have no idea what the hell is the situation.

I very much doubt such a simple mistake(s) would be made by the accountants and financial staff that actually operate the club monetarily.

It all seemed very odd when it was being suggested we needed to sell, then did sell Richarlison... then started spending money.

So much we don't know here.

I'd be shocked if such of the avoidable mistakes were made. I'd then be suspicious if this were the case.

Will Mabon
43 Posted 27/03/2023 at 13:38:09
Kevin @ 36,

have to say, that one made me think.

Brian Wilkinson
44 Posted 27/03/2023 at 14:19:01
All this has come about, ever since we put up a letter of disapproval, In regards to the European super league.

We were the one club that spoke out openly about it, we were seen as keep your noses out.

Then we had the letter of apology for the none penalty against Rodri, which followed by 3 Everton players, being shown three Red cards in the following three games and I may be wrong with this account, but since then, I can only recall Everton being awarded one penalty away at Forest, not sure if our two penalties v Burnley was before or after the apology.

I cannot recall since that letter, an opposing player being sent off against Everton.

Every little incentive the fans Have done to create an atmosphere has been outlawed, and been made to look bad, the pitch invasion was peaceful, we had come from 2 nil down to win and ensure safety, it was pure and raw emotion, but I get the thing about keeping off the pitch.

Then for years you have the elite lighting up Europe with coloured smoke bombs, pure passion, but as soon as Everton do it to create an atmosphere it gets outlawed..

You only have to look at some of the diabolical var decisions against us, and shocking refs, never have I known a season like this one where we come away scratching our heads at the refs nearly every game, you can script it, foul after foul by opposing team, the first one we do and yellow card is shown.

There is no doubt in my mind, Everton out of arms way will be a result for the Prem league and the elite.

In regards to the accounts, if this is down to Everton, then we only have ourselves to blame, whatever the outcome, this board needs to be removed, and put competent people, who know what they are doing in their place, so this never happens again, but I still think we are being used as an example, for the implications City are in, and we are the bench mark for their hearing.

Kevin Molloy
45 Posted 27/03/2023 at 14:20:51
it's like I've always said Will, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye
Barry Rathbone
46 Posted 27/03/2023 at 14:30:09
Surely we have no case if the loss limit is 105m and we're at circa 200m.
Brian Harrison
47 Posted 27/03/2023 at 14:46:13
I think our owner and board are guilty of a dereliction of duty if this case is proven. The fact that they were so incompetent in following the financial rules they had to ask the Premier league to help supervise their spending says it all. They are possibly guilty of gross mismanagement of our club, but unfortunately instead of them as owners and directors being punished for their incompetence, it will be our fabulous fan base who will suffer the most if the club is found guilty.

Jim Wilson
48 Posted 27/03/2023 at 14:47:56
Brian @ 44

I can only agree mate, you are spot on. The list of bad/corrupt decisions is endless.

We all know our board are stupid. But the punishment should fit the crime. And if the Top 6 didn't receive a points deduction for their plotting a new competition behind the PL's back (the ultimate crime) why is everyone talking about points deduction now?

As previously said we have already received a transfer limitation for the last two years.

'Premier League clubs unsettled by timing of Everton charges' - do me a favour. We are in the middle of a relegation battle and we now have to contend with this. The PL knew exactly what they were doing with the timing. It's aimed at us and us only.

They have us handcuffed in every way. We can't spend, we can't complain about a ref or VAR as we know it could be seen as detrimental to our case.

What's next? A ban for Doucoure and McNeil after Leeds tried to kick us off the Park a few weeks ago.

I'm with Christine Foster we should walk away and form a new League. Seriously, because this league is corrupt.

Jim Lloyd
49 Posted 27/03/2023 at 14:56:40
Yes, Brian you're right and the man who is responsible for the good running of the club, is now a multi milllionaire and our club is now in dire peril.
My view is that the League are equally to be blame if they have passed the club's affairs as within the rules.

My guess is that the I/C have called for this decision by the Premier League to be examined by them. In this case, as incompetent as they are, I think the Board have been shafted by the PL to save their own bacon.

Mind you, Everton Football club, with the tremendous and noble history since 1878, have been led down a hazardous road since Kenwright became Chairman. This could well be the end game, thanks to him.

Paul Kossoff
50 Posted 27/03/2023 at 15:24:42
Kevin 45, Also appropriate to Moshiri and Kenwright, Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. I think we will need devine intervention to save us from this. I've said it many times but I hope Jesus is a blue.
Bill Gall
51 Posted 27/03/2023 at 15:32:38
Will the premier League be called to testify at this independent hearing as they are the ones who have supposed to have been working with Everton and agreed that they were complying within their rules.?

We are now blaming our own executives who if they worked with the premier league kept within their financial regulations, and wouldn't the premier league have come down on them right away if they transgressed.

Jim Lloyd
52 Posted 27/03/2023 at 15:46:23
Bill, Oddly enough, I think they have worked with the P/L during the last couple of years and it's the Premier League passing the parcel.
My criticism is of Kenwright especially, as Chairman, and the Board members since he's been Chairman, that have led us down to this.
Paul Kossoff
53 Posted 27/03/2023 at 15:52:34
Kevin 45, interpretation of the mote is correct. The analogy used is of a small object in another's eye as compared with a large beam of wood in one's own, as describing the premier league s hypocrisy self righteousness as in they have chose to forget the big six all but finishing the premier league by wanting to start the super league, and instead go for the easiest less powerful target Everton.
Ian Bennett
54 Posted 27/03/2023 at 15:59:05
City are in the dock, us and I guess Chelsea must be.
Kevin Molloy
55 Posted 27/03/2023 at 15:59:47
I hope our lawyer is noting this all down Paul, for when we address the independent commission.
If we do go down, I'd rather it was with us shrieking 'It's a fix!' than being led humbly to the scaffold.
Jerome Shields
56 Posted 27/03/2023 at 16:04:06
I don't think there is any conspiracy theory.Everton are a badly run Club and even when the Premier League where available for guidance on a voluntary bases,the Board continued to be incompetent.

The Premier League has no confidence in the Board and is sanctioning the Club trying to force change to bring Everton back online with the Profit and Sustainability rules.

This means that the Board needs a change in personnel, who are more competent.I think this is a now necessary for Everton to regain creditability with the Premier League Authorities.

Ian Jones
57 Posted 27/03/2023 at 16:08:30
Any suggestions of Everton flouncing off and starting a new league should consider inviting the following clubs. OK, 2 similarly named clubs to replace the former ones.

Accrington Stanley, Aston Villa, Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers, Burnley, Derby County, Everton, Notts County, Preston North End, Stoke City, West Bromwich Albion and Wolverhampton Wanderers.

Perhaps just call it The Original Football League...

On a serious note, I've often thought that a separate competition between those clubs would be of interest - perhaps made up of reserve players - bit like the old Central League

Bill Gall
58 Posted 27/03/2023 at 16:25:32
Jim #52

I agree with your comments but surly the major complaint, and I keep saying it, this Chairman and Board are staying until the OWNER F.Moshiri realizes that he created this problem by hiring them, and only He can fire them no matter how often we complain. and he must have realized by know the feelings of the majority of supporters on their feelings, especially on the Chairman.

Mark Taylor
59 Posted 27/03/2023 at 16:35:30
I wonder if the resignation of our auditors in October 2022 is connected here. It seems they were unwilling to sign off the accounts which incidentally still haven't yet been published.

What that might mean is that while we were working with the EPL to keep within limits, we might have been doing that based on what Everton (or more specifically our board) were providing in terms of numbers and information. If these turn out to be inaccurate and under estimating cost, whether due to stupidity or intent, we could end up with accounts for 2021/22 that will place us outside the £105 limit.

For 2022/3, it seems we have continued to operate frugally so it is entirely possible that our current position, or at least the one we are heading towards at season end, would have us back within the £105m loss because we will be losing at that point, one big, loss making season and replacing it with what might be nearer break even.

But this won't save us because the 21/22 accounts will reveal a matter of fact. Were we over on June 30 2022 or not? Our subsequent efforts to steady the ship (albeit in a manner detrimental to the team performance, with no striker) will at best be mitigation.

As Paul the Esk says on his podcast, there is no way this will be resolved before the end of the season. If nothing else, we have a right to appeal which will near double the timeframe. That is probably why the other relegation clubs are calling foul. A 6 or 9 point penalty would almost certainly see on of those clubs saved. One final question I also don't know the answer to. If Armageddon hits and we get relegated, does an EPL points penalty apply to the Championship given it's a different competition and promoter/regulator involved?

Alan McGuffog
60 Posted 27/03/2023 at 16:40:38
Agree, wholeheartedly, with Joe McMahon. BMD is the problem but if we could get around that it wouldn't break my heart if we ended up in the lower divisions. If we could default, clean the Augean Stables, and start again, we'd be back healthier in the long run. It could even be a blessing...after all, if we did survive relegation it'd be the same old pile of shite next season, so what's there to lose.
Except the ground issue. Hmmm.
Barry Hesketh
61 Posted 27/03/2023 at 16:54:46
Mark @59
I couldn't find any proof that Everton's auditors had resigned, there was a rumour that they were contemplating bailing out, but that was it. I did put up a post on another thread where there are links to the relevant sites. Of course if you have a more updated source to verify they did resign, I defer to your better knowledge.
Will Mabon
62 Posted 27/03/2023 at 16:56:29
"I don't think there is any conspiracy theory.Everton are a badly run Club and even when the Premier League where available for guidance on a voluntary bases,the Board continued to be incompetent."

Respectfully, Jerome, we've seen no evidence of this. Anecdotally, the opposite in fact. It's said that we were/are working within some sort of agreement, advice, arrangement or whatever it is, after discussion with the Premier League.

Badly run for sure, in areas that we know, but there are aspects of which there is no information.

We could be in for a real kicking here, a kicking with perhaps a political malice. Or maybe not. The truth is required.

"I wonder if the resignation of our auditors in October 2022 is connected here. It seems they were unwilling to sign off the accounts which incidentally still haven't yet been published."

Something else to add to the "More info required" list.

Will Mabon
63 Posted 27/03/2023 at 16:59:40

have to say, I heard they'd "Gone" - but not confirmed.

Could be a defer queue building!

Barry Hesketh
64 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:03:17
Will @52
I think the Everton board mirror general society whereby if you believe that something is correct then it must be so, that is until somebody hits you with the irrefutable evidence slap bang in the face, and even then it will elicit the response "Well. that can't be right, can it?"
Bobby Mallon
65 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:03:57
We should never ever want to be relegated to have a reset. Yes we may not win the league or get champs league but what we should be aiming for is winning a domestic cup ( we are definitely capable by targeting them) and targeting europa league. It will do us not good getting relegated and what makes people think we will be any better in the lower leagues I’d rather be shite in the top league than the lower.
Brent Stephens
66 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:06:15
Mark #59 "I wonder if the resignation of our auditors in October 2022 is connected here. It seems they were unwilling to sign off the accounts which incidentally still haven't yet been published."

Mark, the resignation of our auditors was a loud blast that something was wrong; possibly relationships; possibly contractual issues; but more probably (?), and worringly, substantive issues around financial probity. As their resignation was public knowledge, it was perhaps an invite to the EPL to "have a closer look"; combine this with the EPL's possible muscle-flexing in view of government nosies about having a controlling hand in the financial comings-and-goings of the EPL.

Will Mabon
67 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:07:38
Barry, only certainty: wild ride ahead.
Will Mabon
68 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:09:10
Bobby - agreed.
James Hughes
69 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:19:58
I really do wonder if some of the posters on TW have Munchausesn's by proxy, with Everton as the proxy.

We deserve to be relegated, we need to drop a division to reset ?!!

Are these people sane

We need to come out fighting and show the EPL that we have funds and we are sustainble. The only reset needed is the board

kenwright and the rest please exit stage right

Barry Hesketh
70 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:23:13

Everton are set to explore other potential options with regards to the firm that audits their accounts but sources have refuted claims of a breakdown in relationship between the parties.

A report in the Guardian on Wednesday suggested Everton's current auditors, BDO, were considering walking away from their role in signing off the club's accounts. That raised questions among Blues fans following a particularly bruising period of financial statements over the last two years as the club battled to remain within the Premier League's profit and sustainability threshold following heavy investment.

Sources have told the ECHO that while Everton are seeking potential alternative options to BDO, who have audited their accounts for the past two years, the relationship between the two remains good and that there has been no suggestion of BDO resigning their position.

By law, all UK companies are required to have their accounts audited, and football clubs fall into that bracket. Sources close to the Blues have stated that a potential change in auditor is a common occurrence, with UK regulations stating that companies must retain an auditor for no longer than five years but can change as frequently as they wish.

BDO are a large audit firm who have also worked with Manchester City recently but are not one of the so-called 'big four', which includes KPMG, PwC (PricewaterhouseCoopers), Ernst & Young and Deloitte.

But the Everton stance remains that BDO are the club's auditors as things stand and they have not resigned from their position, rejecting any assertions made that their exit has links to them being unhappy at club ownership.

The Blues had been with Deloitte before switching to BDO from 2020.

When contacted by the ECHO, BDO declined to comment.

Consultancy UK

Ray Roche
71 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:28:50
When will Forest be brought to book?

These are the top ten in Europe, not including January.

Chelsea: £253.8m

Manchester United: £214.2m

West Ham: £163.8m

Tottenham: £153m

Nottingham Forest: £145.8m

Barcelona: £137.7m

PSG: £132.8m

Manchester City: £125.6m

Bayern Munich: £123.8m

Wolves: £123m

Their income can’t be able to sustain scrutiny surely? Nottingham Forest's wage bill now apparently consumes over 200% of their total revenues, the worst in the league

Mark Taylor
72 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:31:40
Barry 59
You're right, there is no official announcement from the club, in fact there is denial. However I tend to take a view on matters like this that where there is smoke, there is fire, otherwise such reports are unlikely to surface. BDO have neither confirmed or denied it (which is normal). I guess we find this out for sure when the accounts are published because aside from confirming whether they audited them, they will also say if they are being retained. If I was a betting man, I'd say yes to the former, no to the latter.

The story suggests they were unhappy with ownership but it does not seem at all impossible, given recent events, that there were instead disagreement over accounting principles.

One might foresee a happy ending here, that BDO did indeed audit the 2021/22 accounts, have agreed to be re-appointed and the accounts can form the basis of demonstrating a cumulative 3 season loss of less than £105m. I'm not sure what part BDO plays in calculating the relevant numbers for the EPL. While the accounts provide a basis for the calculation, they are not necessarily the actual calculation. Presumably they are not accountable as such for the EPL submission.

On the other hand there are multiple more unhappy alternative endings I can foresee...

Brent Stephens
73 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:31:47
Barry #70, "But the Everton stance remains that BDO are the club's auditors as things stand and they have not resigned from their position, rejecting any assertions made that their exit has links to them being unhappy at club ownership".

That was sometime in 2022? So BDO might have resigned since then? And their concern might not have been club ownership in itself, but what the owners were doing?

Jay Harris
74 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:33:23
Besides all the hullabaloo about Conte getting sacked Ive just read that Chelsea have declared a loss of over 121m for last year.

Where that leaves them over the last 3 years is yet to be ascertained but this is before the takeover and the 600m spending so the current years accounts should be interesting.

Barry Hesketh
75 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:42:15
I'm pretty sure if the Auditors had actually resigned at any point in time we would have seen it reported somewhere? I'm not saying I know the facts, or that BDO haven't resigned, I'm only going on what I can read in reports and if someone has solid proof that shows they have resigned, then great we're all in the know.
Paul Richardson
76 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:54:19
If that Forest wages bill etc is correct. what happens if they get relegated? Does a season in the Championship wipe out the requirement to keep loses below £105m? Or is it worked out over three Premier League seasons (not necessarily consecutive)? If so, this could be an enhanced yo-yo ploy...spend big on players and wages while in the high-profile Premier League, take the hit of relegation and make the most the compensation funds to bounce straight back.

And what about Chelsea? £121m loss in a single season? Does that help or hinder Everton's case when it is independently reviewed?

Martin Mason
77 Posted 27/03/2023 at 17:57:55
Jim@6 Could you please show the proof of what you say.
Martin Mason
78 Posted 27/03/2023 at 18:00:02
Jim@49 Could you please show the proof of what you say.
Mark Taylor
79 Posted 27/03/2023 at 18:24:21
Barry 75.
I don't think there is any evidence that BDO have formally announced they have resigned or even planning to resign.

But that doesn't mean they are Everton's auditors going forward. Given what has been said, including reportedly by Everton, I'd say the odds are they won't be (even technically are not, as of now). Unless there are exceptional circumstances, you don't tend to hear of auditors resigning, they just don't do next year's accounts (or exceptionally do not sign off CY).

That there are concerns and issues seems to me to be very highly probable, albeit not certain (yet). When the club appears to say they are auditors 'as things stand' and a source supposedly from the club suggests there is an exploration of a new auditor, I draw my own conclusions. There is something afoot, even if not official. In hindsight I should have made this clear in the first para of my first post.

Brian Hennessy
80 Posted 27/03/2023 at 19:21:32
Off topic, but our Seamus is going to be busy tonight. Looks like he is going to be the one tasked with marking Mbappe!
Mark Ryan
81 Posted 27/03/2023 at 19:26:34
Sad in itself- Brian says Off Topic. This is a website for Everton FC and talking about our Captain is off topic. Kenwright, you're a misery to me !!
Football is all that we should be talking about but instead .
David Cooper
82 Posted 27/03/2023 at 20:06:36
Does anyone think that our relationship with Usmanov might figure into the mess we are in? What was the state of our business deal with USM for naming rights of BMD? We know he paid @ large sum of money to get the first option on naming rights. Can’t remember how much this was or when EFC received the money. Did we have to pay it back? In which case surely that can be written off at a loss.

I’m not one for conspiracy theory but is there a common denominator between EFC, Man City, Chelsea and possibly Newcastle in the future. All these clubs are or werefinanced by organizations whom are persona non grata in certain political circles?

Christine Foster
83 Posted 27/03/2023 at 20:09:04
According to a report on the BBC website, comments from a finance expert stated:

The hearing for Everton's alleged breach of financial rules "would be challenging" to complete by the end of the Premier League season, says football finance expert Kieran Maguire.

Speaking to BBC Radio Merseyside, Maguire said: "My understanding is that, for some time, all the money going out of Everton effectively had to be approved by the Premier League," said Maguire. "So they were treading a fairly fine line.

"Of course, there are all sorts of leaks and rumours, but my understanding is this could be linked to a single transaction in relation to the signing of a player.

There aren't many to scrutinize if that's the case, are there? But if that's the case one would wonder if it's the Dele Alli deal that, because of its unusual nature, which to be honest none of us know exactly what we are committed to, or the finer details of, then are the Premier League insinuating that the deal is not valid in some way?

Speculation of course, but that meal that Kenwright and Levy had could prove to bring the most costly Kenwright ever had, but leaving Everton FC go pick up the tab.

Dennis Stevens
84 Posted 27/03/2023 at 20:18:01
No wonder Conte had to go then, Christine
Brian Hennessy
85 Posted 27/03/2023 at 20:37:09
Very true Mark #81

Coleman kept Mbabbe very quiet in the first half - all square at the break. A gutsy performance so far from the Irish.

Paul Birmingham
86 Posted 27/03/2023 at 20:50:52
Danny@37, yes this is some saga, God only knows what’s gone on and what’s going on right now, but let’s pray, that Everton FC, will be in this League at the end of this season.

This latest brush with the EPL investigations Team,, must hopefully signal the embers of the last performance of this masquerade of the Everton Board.

They can’t be permitted back into Goodison Park, replacements must be found, but that could be another epic saga.

This is another burden, that adds extra pressure on to all the Teams at Everton FC.

But in Sean Dyche Everton have character, back bone and guts, and let’s hope that Everton can over come these challenges off the Park, to stay focused and win enough games to stay up this season.

Now to focus on beating Spurs.


Tony Everan
87 Posted 27/03/2023 at 21:34:54
From the archives;

31 Jan 2022 Dele Alli Tottenham Hotspur No Fee

31 Jan 2022 Donny van de Beek Manchester United Loan

13 Jan 2022 Anwar El Ghazi Aston Villa Loan

13 Jan 2022 Lucas Digne Aston Villa £25m

4 Jan 2022 Nathan Patterson Rangers £11m

1 Jan 2022 Vitalii Mykolenko Dynamo Kiev £18m

22 Sep 2021 James Rodriguez Al Rayyan £7.2m

31 Aug 2021 Salomon Rondon Dalian Professional No Fee

20 Aug 2021 Andy Lonergan West Bromwich Albion No Fee

29 Jul 2021 Beni Baningime Hearts No Fee

22 Jul 2021 Bernard Duarte Sharjah FC £750k

22 Jul 2021 Demarai Gray Bayer Leverkusen £1.7m

20 Jul 2021 Asmir Begovic Bournemouth No Fee

20 Jul 2021 Andros Townsend Crystal Palace No Fee

Christine, I am thinking the same, it’s about the Dele Alli deal. Although there was no fee it’s a commitment to £12.5m of wages. Whether the structured fees are relevant?, another one for Paul to give his opinion on.

Digne / Patterson Myko cancel each other out bar £4m. Was this extra £4m signed off with the League?

Can’t forget Van Beek is on 120k pw , would have cost us £2.5m in wages , was this sanctioned?

It could be taking these massive wages on Dele and Beek pushed us over the precipice. And the last minute pandemonium of it all led to catastrophic oversight to stay within the rules.

Christine Foster
88 Posted 27/03/2023 at 22:30:53
Tony, broken down there is little in there thats likely to have raised the ire of the PL other than the arrangement concerning Dele Alli. Has there been another deal like it? or was this the first of a kind I wonder? If it was then its irregular which would speculate the validity of it, especially if it wasn't signed off by the PL. As there was no up front fee but only a commitment, perhaps they didn't run that"commitment" past the PL first? Thereby allegedly breaching any agreement or understanding?
Jim Lloyd
89 Posted 27/03/2023 at 22:54:16
Sorry, pressed the wrong button on the empty one.
Jim Lloyd
90 Posted 27/03/2023 at 22:59:18
No Martin (78,) I think it's about time you proved that what I say isn't true, doesn't have any backing or that what I say is lies, or persisitently getting all the reports, cuttings from the echo, Statement from his erstwhile partner, I've misunderstood. I'll be dancing with happiness iof you can educate me into the wonderful works of our beloved Chairman.
Chris Leyland
91 Posted 27/03/2023 at 23:31:08
Tony E, from that list doesn’t the El Ghazi deal also look a little suspect? Brought in on loan and barely got a sniff? Was it cooking the books for Villa so they could have Digne’s large wages on their bill but for Anwat’s off at the seem time?
Eric Haworth
92 Posted 27/03/2023 at 23:38:30
Christine #83 has referenced the comments from a finance expert, Kieran Maguire, who suggests concluding the investigation into our alleged breach of EPL profit & sustainability regulations by the end of this season “would be challenging”.

To say it “would be challenging” is a massive understatement, and I would go one further to say it’s an absolute impossibility. Because in discussions with my Lawyer Son, who’s practiced Sports Law during his career. This investigation will have to be more far reaching, than simply checking the clubs financial dealings, together with the published and audited accounts against the provisions of the EPL regulations.

Particularly in relation to extremely complex transfer transactions, because payments are never a straightforward single up front payment, but complicated instalments, and loan deals can be a myriad of “what ifs”, and the Deli transaction that Christine refers to looks like it could be a classic?

Therefore, if it’s to be done thoroughly and professionally, which it has, if the the EPL are to convince the Govt they’re capable of self governance, without the need of having a Govt Regulator imposed upon them? Then it’s going to absorb an enormous amount of professional resource and time, requiring not only experts in football finance, but also similarly expert sports, (football) lawyers.

It will also require the cooperation of the clubs, players, agents, law firms and financial institutions involved in the transactions, together with the EPL themselves as they were supposedly vetting our transactions? The commissions forensic accountants and lawyers will also need access to the terms and conditions of each and every transaction during the period of the alleged offence, and that in itself will be a monumental task in working their way through each and every clause.

Not surprising then, that the EPL sparring match with City has taken a decade. So I’d say it’s more than “challenging” for ours to reach a conclusion within a couple of months?

Mick Davies
93 Posted 28/03/2023 at 04:32:53
Reports now that BMD is to be delayed due to the referral by a bunch of billionaire tax dodgers, to a tribunal, where wealthy lawyers will make a fortune out of a club, who spent millions on players and their wages, just to fight relegation annually!
You couldn't make this up. The club are getting screwed left right and by it's own board, where the 'biggest fan' has made a killing that would put a big lottery winner in the shade, while refusing to engage with the people who have sustained the club by their unwavering support - God Save Everton FC
Brent Stephens
94 Posted 28/03/2023 at 04:55:48
Mick "Reports now that BMD is to be delayed".

Where is that reported, Mick?

Jerome Shields
95 Posted 28/03/2023 at 05:43:52

Both Everton and th Premier League have admitted that they were in close liaison on a voluntary bases for over two years.Whilst the Premier League told Everton what was required, with the additional involvement in transfers, it has now materialised that the Board were not capable of implementing the agreed/suggested plan to bring them within the Profitability and Sustainability Rules.The Premier League therefore had no choice but to refer Everton to a Independent Commission.What this is really says is that the Premier League has lost confidence in the Everton Board's competence.

Eric Myles
96 Posted 28/03/2023 at 06:49:25
Alec #13,

"Conspiracy v Mismanagement, lies, arrogance and exhausting relationships with people (premier league and fans) who are trying to help."

"This feels like of the premier league being totally fed up of feeling hoodwinked by our board."

Just like the complaints levied against the board in their dealings with Liverpool City Council over Kings Dock.

And also in their dealings over Desperation Kirkby.

And who is the lowest common denominator in all three cases?

Eric Myles
97 Posted 28/03/2023 at 07:03:27
Ian #38, it was probably those 20 new positions that were created and hired for after the internal review.
Christine Foster
98 Posted 28/03/2023 at 07:08:34
If, as it appears likely, that the alleged breach relates to one incoming transfer and turns out to be the Dele Alli, its probably the case that the club didn't run this by the PL beforehand because no moneys changed hands, however, it was a significant cost in wages, and at the time, appearance monies may not have been factored in to the accounts or informed to the league. Both would have impacted the P and L and the club should have raised it as a possibility.
So.. the increase in a wage bill and the probability of knowing that appearance money would have to be paid, amounts to keeping them in the dark and triggers a breach. On purpose or just stupidity? Who knows but you can see where this is going..
Danny Baily
99 Posted 28/03/2023 at 07:28:23
Jerome 95, your take on the matter seems rather specious. What evidence do you have of the board being incapable of implementing the PLs agreed/suggested plan?

All I've seen over the last year is a club working hard to reduce its wage bill against a backdrop of lost commercial revenue due to international sanctions. I would be amazed if the PL took any substantive action.

Furthermore, these matters are typically big news when they are announced and largely forgotten about by the time that are quietly dropped. Let's just focus on football.

Eric Myles
100 Posted 28/03/2023 at 07:32:35
Danny #99, the PL *HAVE* taken substantive action.
Teddy Bertin
101 Posted 28/03/2023 at 07:33:18
Anyone blaming the league or blaming other clubs needs to take a look at who we are and what we have become.

We took Putin’s money via Usmanov via Moshiri and we pretended that we suddenly got amazing sponsorship deals that were so blatantly breaching rules that I assume it was done to taunt people and make a political point.

Sponsorship is so a brand can raise brand awareness, reach new customers and create a positive brand association.

Why would a Russian Mobile phone company that no one can use in the UK want to sponsor our women’s team?

Why would a holdings company that has absolutely nothing to promote, no audience to reach and no reason to advertising sponsor our training ground?

Our violations have been so brazen (even worse than City’s in their either arrogance or political point making) that it is no wonder that the club is going down the plug hole.

Something is horribly rotten. Bill Kenwright is a complete fool who makes terrible skinflint theatre productions and had made a few million from underpaying his staff, reusing old sets and costumes and then being hideous to anyone that tried to negotiate with him.

We let him buy our club as the Premier League was about to go global and now he’s a multi, multi millionaire

He runs his theatre company like a joke and he’s run our club like a joke. Now we’re in the throes of Putin’s money, Russian politics and some complete mess fronted by a bizarre Oligarch puppet in Moshiri.

What a bloody tragedy for our amazing fans and our wonderful history.

Feels like game over to me

Ray Roche
102 Posted 28/03/2023 at 07:59:36
There’s an article on Malaga FC on the BBC website. It could be Everton they’re writing about. Chilling.
Martin Mason
103 Posted 28/03/2023 at 08:04:49
Jim@90, you made a statement and it is 100% on you to prove that it is true otherwise it has zero credibility, pure unsubstantiated opinion sorry. It is not up to me to show that what you say isn't true. Come on Jim, substantiate your opinion.
Derek Thomas
104 Posted 28/03/2023 at 08:26:35
It seems to me the Premier League were, at the time, 'happy' with our answer - nothing to see here - no names no pack drill etc.
But this proposed Govt inquiry / oversight / interference thingy is asking to see the working out...and the dog has, in the mean time, eaten our home work.
Jerome Shields
105 Posted 28/03/2023 at 09:13:08

Why where Everton refered to the Independent Commission and what does that tell you about the Board? Sure they where restricted, but did the Board change from how they have been conducting themselves for years?.Did they cut back in preserving their own and related positions?What is the sustained Fan protest about?What is the repeated campaigns of no confidence in the Board about by the small shareholders association about? What is the increasing use of the words Board incompetence about in the Media and by pundit?.

I would say incompetence and now complete loss of confidence in the Board. Paul the Esk is calling for the introduction of Corporate recovery specialusts., replacing the whole lot.

Brian Harrison
106 Posted 28/03/2023 at 09:59:25
You would think that a club being referred to the commission for overspending would have had some top draw players which led to the overspend. But we never signed a top player since Moshiri came to the club, I still think Sigurdsson is still his biggest signing at £45m, which was way over the top for someone who had already failed with Spurs. But we overspent on journeymen players in the main or in the case of Rooney and James 2 players who were well past their best. As has been reported many times on these pages we pay these average journeymen players 96% of all our income. Our wage bill is that of a side continually in Europe every year not a club at the lower end of the table.

Whatever happens as a result of being referred to this committee, our buying of players and wages spent must be were the biggest changes need to come. Brighton and latterly Brentford have proved you can be competitive without spending a fortune on players or paying them ridiculous salaries.

Jerome Shields
107 Posted 28/03/2023 at 10:21:47
' Real-time monitoring of clubs’ compliance with spending rules will be among the core proposals of an independent football regulator in a move that will help the likes of Everton avoid future sanctions, Football Insider has learned.

This site revealed on 22 December last year that the government will set out its plans for an independent regulator in a white paper by the end of January.

The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport has since accelerated its search for new policy advisers, with four new aides expected to be appointed in the coming weeks.

The white paper will broadly define the proposed remit of the regulator but will not outline specific policy.

However, a financial source has told Football Insider that real-time monitoring is all but certain to be codified into profit and sustainability rules across the English pyramid in the coming years.

This system would allow the regulator to intervene before a club either falls foul of spending regulations or charts a course towards financial oblivion in the style of Bury or Macclesfield Town.

Everton have been involved in quasi-real-time monitoring in recent months, liaising with the Premier League to ensure that they remain within the division’s defined financial parameters.

But as reported elsewhere, the now-concluded discussions were held on a voluntary basis and not mandated by the top flight.

The Toffees have recorded losses of over £370million in the last three seasons alone and have only avoided penalties because of pandemic-related exemptions.

Elsewhere, a real-time monitoring structure has already been set up by both Uefa and the Football League.

The Premier League meanwhile is expected to soon mirror Uefa and introduce a new financial fair play system which ties wages, transfers and agent fees to turnover.'

Football Insider

Adam Williams 4 /1/23

Financial and Governance corresoondent.

Whilst the Premier League has engaged in voluntary discussion with Everton, any of it comments were made on aggregate losses prior to the 2020/2021 season.The estimate aggregate loss for 2021/2022 by Paul the Esk is £59 million, outside the required Profit and Sustainability Rules..The actual account for 2021/2022 have yet belatedly to be reassessed publically and the Premier League is the only one outside Everton to have seen the figures.

They have looked at the figures and given the above insight have went (#@&%&@#£) and refered Everton to the Independent Commission.As simple as.

Paul the Esk figure is only a estimate the real figures will be released on the 31st of March, on the last legally required day.

Jerome Shields
108 Posted 28/03/2023 at 10:41:52
Of course MSP Capital got to see the 2021-2022 Final Accounts under Due Diligence and they stopped answering Everton's phone calls.
Brian Harrison
109 Posted 28/03/2023 at 10:44:22

While an independent regulator is badly needed, I am sceptical when they are appointed and presumably paid by the Government. Also how many are going to be employed to work within the independent regulators remit, considering there are 92 clubs to oversee. Also how they manager real time spending on a day to day basis, especially during transfer windows would for me be a massive task. Also what legal authority will they have to have real time information of clubs. What powers will they have and will it be at the discretion of the independent regulator as to what punishment is handed out to clubs not complying.

Seems that clubs are unwilling or in some cases unable to adhere to the present rules, which are simple to understand. The rules at present allow any club to overspend by a set amount in any 3 year period, yet seems so far both City and Everton have been referred to the independent commission. Despite one having an accountant as the owner and the other has access to the best accountants money can buy.

James Hughes
110 Posted 28/03/2023 at 10:54:31
martin #103 you are unbelievable. Just last week on the Kenwright thread you posted

I don't need to provide proof of anything sorry.

But you are now demanding proof from Jim, how does that work ?

Jerome Shields
111 Posted 28/03/2023 at 11:02:39

You are right and even the Everton dry run and what will eventually come out in the wash will confirm your opinion.The government is working towards real time reporting in Business taxation as we speak.

I was involved in a organisation that was engaged for regulators in 2012.The only true advice I got was from my own Accountant.'Regulation is always too late'.The Everton dry run would seem to confirm that this is still true when it seems that ' Clubs are unwilling or in some cases unable to adhere to the present rules,'

I hundred percent agree with you.

Jerome Shields
112 Posted 28/03/2023 at 11:02:39

You are right and even the Everton dry run and what will eventually come out in the wash will confirm your opinion.The government is working towards real time reporting in Business taxation as we speak.

I was involved in a organisation that was engaged for regulators in 2012.The only true advice I got was from my own Accountant.'Regulation is always too late'.The Everton dry run would seem to confirm that this is still true when it seems that ' Clubs are unwilling or in some cases unable to adhere to the present rules,'

I hundred percent agree with you.

Pete Neilson
113 Posted 28/03/2023 at 12:05:13
Reported this morning (iNews Mark Douglas) that this charge has nothing to do with transfers or wage bill it’s all concerning the stadium costs AND the amount attributed to Covid. I thought the Covid figures had previously been signed off? As for the stadium costs no idea what they have found.

On another note I presume we’ve applied for an exceptional write off of sponsorship etc from USM. Reported Chelsea have £120m aligned to this as it was caused by exceptional circumstances.

Kevin Molloy
114 Posted 28/03/2023 at 12:14:26
the careless way we've spent money just makes you weep. Who else would spend over fifty million on Iwobi and Alli, to name but two? It's totally insane. It's so daft it makes me wonder if it is just a money washing op. If you've got money that you need to clean, if you get fifty percent of its value in cleaning it, that may be quite a good deal. I think it has to be that, nobody is this stupid.
Brian Harrison
115 Posted 28/03/2023 at 12:26:27
Pete 113

The Times also reported the other day that the cost of the stadium was part of the problem, they are wrong the costs of any infrastructure are not part of any calculation towards the finance and sustainability regulations. So the cost of the new stadium is irrelevant.

Eric Myles
116 Posted 28/03/2023 at 12:43:12
The irony is that we would not be in this position but for the very rules that we are being held in breach of.

Pre-P&S / FFP owners were allowed to spend what they wanted and underwrite any losses incurred, think Abramovich, or Sir John Moores.

But these very rules prevent Moshiri from writing a cheque to cover the losses as would have happened previously.

Kevin Molloy
117 Posted 28/03/2023 at 13:11:07
yes, these rules aren't there to 'safeguard clubs', as you say this problem could have been solved by a. stroke of the pen. They are there to preserve the pre eminent positions for the members of the cartel. they don't want anyone else coming in and making it more competitive. They just use the shithouse double-talk which is everywhere now, to cloak their real intentions.
Neil Copeland
118 Posted 28/03/2023 at 13:47:22
Brian #115, perhaps Delli was recruited as the Stadium Project Director…..
Dale Self
119 Posted 28/03/2023 at 13:51:19
Just to complicate our understanding we should consider some security issues that may be playing out through the Pl to us. If Usmanov is sanctioned then surely the Govt does not want any distribution from club proceeds to a sanctioned foreign national. It has never been clear what Moshiri’s financial position was before or after the sanctions.

The government probably wants to wind down the Russian aspect of PL capital without unduly impugning the new capital. Any direct action would likely kick up questions of how it got to this and the Tories are in power and would like to avoid that discussion obviously.

I’m going with that for the conspiratorial angle. I think ot is just some shitty roulette that put usin the crosshairs of the scope.

Michael Boardman
120 Posted 28/03/2023 at 13:52:39
Chelsea were banned from signing players when Fat Frank was there - this was rescinded and he was sacked having got the team in 4th. Citteh had a ban, which they ignored, and it got rescinded anyway. Man United haven't really been near the Champions League recently, but still spend. Liverpool, despite what they state, spend mega-bucks, and Spurs don't exactly spend nothing. Meanwhile Newcastle have 3 years to get it right, otherwise they end up in the same state as us with FFP. So there are always 4 places for 7 teams (Newcastle have replaced us), but yet it rotates, but we never got there
Ian Pilkington
121 Posted 28/03/2023 at 13:56:38
I watched the Select Committee meeting on football governance live on BBC Parliament this morning - I am retired and it was raining..

Damian Green MP (Committee Chairman) briefly mentioned during his introduction that the Premier League were investigating “regulatory problems” at Everton. Typically Manchester City was not mentioned. Job done; the Premier League has been seen to be doing something.

Interestingly, Kevin Miles (Football Supporters Association) strongly backed sanctions to be applied solely against miscreant owners instead of unfairly penalising supporters with points deductions.

Later, Rick Parry (Football League, but better known as the obnoxious former LFC CEO) desperately dodged the issue, not surprising as the FL has consistently applied points deductions, as recently as last week in the case of Wigan Athletic.

As it happens, I do not believe we are in danger of a points deduction, whatever the outcome of the Premier League's investigation.

Jim Wilson
122 Posted 28/03/2023 at 14:13:44
My issue is the points deduction.

There is no way a points deduction is the correct punishment if it wasn't done when the so-called Big 6 were involved in the huge crime of secretly forming a new competition. And to be frank, they should have been thrown out of the Premier League immediately.

If Kenwright or Moshiri have been involved in anything improper, they should carry the can.

Barry Hesketh
123 Posted 28/03/2023 at 14:22:55
Discounting the usual suspects and the newly state-owned clubs, what purpose do the Profitability and Sustainability Rules serve?

It may have been intended to flush out bad ownership models and save the clubs from being their own worst enemy; however, it seems to have the unintended consequence of curtailing ambition and therefore competition.

Take any club outside of the elite mentioned above and there isn't a club with the ability or good fortune to constantly buy cheap and sell high, whilst maintaining a full assault on the coveted European berths.

Frankly, if a club doesn't make the Top 4 in its first couple of high-investment years, it'll be on the brink of breaking the P&S rules, unless it can get a fantastic sponsorship deal, or manages to sell a few players for a massive return on its initial investments.

Even if it manages to do all of that, it still has to be competitive on the salary front, and obviously the established elite can wave fistfuls of cash at any point to entice a star player to join them.

Everton tried to run before they could walk, they chased the dream but, via impatience and rank bad executive decisions, they have fallen well short of their initial objectives and now face more than a few years struggling to compete in the Premier League, with or without punishment. That's of course if we can manage to pick up enough points in the final 10 games to retain our current status.

I agree that Everton FC knew the rules and limitations before they were accused of financial breaches, and it should have done everything it could have in order to avoid being put on the naughty step.

But trying to make the necessary squad improvements whilst simultaneously trying to stay within the spending limits seems to have proven an insolvable conundrum for those in charge of the club.

I bet half of the league, depending on how far into the financial cycle they are, will be watching with some nervousness at the conclusions and decisions that the Independent Commission makes in the Everton case.

Tony Abrahams
124 Posted 28/03/2023 at 14:32:58
The thing about this profitability and sustainability is that very few Premier League clubs are not now owned by billionaires so the main aim really does seem to be about simply protecting the status quo.
Jim Wilson
125 Posted 28/03/2023 at 14:36:09
Tony @ 124 - Spot on mate!
Jerome Shields
126 Posted 28/03/2023 at 15:25:55
Barry #123

You are right, Everton tried to run before they could walk and didn't have the necessary kind of executive capable of taking the slub forward. It just ended up as Monte Carlo or bust.

Martin Mason
127 Posted 28/03/2023 at 15:57:14
James @110,

If a person makes a statement, it is up to him to prove that it's true – not up to the person challenging it to prove that it's not true.

How can it possibly be different? If you can't verify that any statement you make is fact, or at least to a reasonable level to satisfy a reasonable person, then it isn't fact but unsubstantiated opinion stated as fact.

So, when it comes to verifying Jim's opinion, I have to do nothing, Jim has to prove it.

Andy Crooks
128 Posted 28/03/2023 at 16:50:38

I'm quite sure you are aware that your last post is ludicrous. If you challenge what someone says,you put yourself in the position of having to support your challenge. If you do not, you kind of come across as a demented toddler who demands that his mum actually fucking proves that it is bedtime.

Dave Abrahams
129 Posted 28/03/2023 at 17:01:44
Martin (127),

Why don't you come to Liverpool and take a nice quiet walk through the Mersey Tunnel round about 5:00pm?

Dale Self
130 Posted 28/03/2023 at 17:03:35
Ian @121, no disclaimer needed for that. Thanks for watching and providing some play-by-play commentary.

I agree that the Premier League are managing appearances rather than practicing regulation.

Will Mabon
131 Posted 28/03/2023 at 17:08:06
Martin, both sides should try to have an idea what they're talking about, if it comes to it.

The extension of what you say there is often played out horribly on the internet, where someone types out a detailed point, often a known, credible point, simply to be met with the arrogant Source?

Not good enough.

Dale Self
133 Posted 28/03/2023 at 17:20:27
Okay, Will, but sometimes we ask “source?” because the dude in question has exhausted their customary allocation of credibility and needs to be checked.

Not picking a fight here – just saying there are times when it is a valid approach for extending the discussion. If I can't do that, then I'm going straight for offending expletives.

Fold Martin.

Will Mabon
134 Posted 28/03/2023 at 17:22:10
Barry @ 123,

intended consequence.

Martin Mason
135 Posted 28/03/2023 at 17:39:15

If you make a statement and can't show that it is correct, then the statement is false. I can't understand how that can be difficult to understand.

If you make a statement that you can't show to be true then you are by definition a liar. Opinion is not fact, Evertonian myth is not fact.

The information flow here will improve dramatically when it becomes fact-based.

Will Mabon
136 Posted 28/03/2023 at 17:41:14

You might; most don't. It's a tactic to belittle and discredit without effort or substance on the part of those challenging.

It can seek to imply that no-one's opinion or knowledge can stand alone without sanctioned back-up. (Also a beloved tactic of the paid shills along with peer reviewed and such.)

"If I can't do that, then I'm going straight for offending expletives."

If you do that, be sure to use a wide variety and to misspell a little – otherwise, you'll look like the NSA. :-)

Martin Mason
137 Posted 28/03/2023 at 17:45:09
Will @131 "often a known, credible point".

And who decides what is known and credible? Credible isn't fact, fact is what happened – not what could have happened.

Why do you guys not stop hijacking this thread and stop defending the falsehood of opinion as fact?

Martin Mason
138 Posted 28/03/2023 at 17:50:53
Will @136,

Absolute rubbish, you either state fact or opinion; most don't know the difference and assume that they're the same. Peer review is a procedure and not a guarantee of fact.

Nobody on here should post opinion as fact unless they can support what they say with evidence. Kenwright lost Kings Dock. The most idiotic statement ever posted on a website.

Steve Brown
139 Posted 28/03/2023 at 18:03:35
“If you make a statement that you can't show to be true then you are by definition a liar.”

That is pure nonsense, Martin.

On that basis, all journalism is lies as stories are published on the balance of probabilities, but without definitive evidence at the time of publication.

Will Mabon
140 Posted 28/03/2023 at 18:18:29

It's only rubbish if you want to simply play policeman of the threads and nothing more. There are times and situations for demanding hard facts, I'd agree.

In Jim's post @49, I see the phrases, 'My view', 'My guess' and 'I think'. Realistic enough, on a site that necessarily revolves around speculative discussion and opinion whilst also often raising facts too. Most here perceive all this pretty well.

The other unqualified points he makes are what I'd call widely accepted and believed by many. Perhaps you are attacking more broadly than the content of that post?

I'm fully aware of what constitutes peer review. In the context in which I discussed it, it's portrayed online as the final, factual, scientific arbiter and used as such, mostly to shut people down. You know this, I'm sure.

Was it Jim's dig at Bill's wallet that triggered you?

Pete Neilson
141 Posted 28/03/2023 at 18:20:26
Brian (#115),

Yes, I appreciate that I can only guess that if this is true it means they are questioning how and which costs have been attributed to the infrastructure, ie, our accounting.

All will become clear, I'm sure.

Will Mabon
142 Posted 28/03/2023 at 18:30:01
Jerome @ 95,

Thanks. I would still like to know in what regard the board were not capable, and also the timing. Perhaps that is more influenced by what's going on right now.

Gavin McGarvey
145 Posted 28/03/2023 at 19:25:59
Wasn't Kenwright in charge when we lost the opportunity to take part in the King's Dock development?

Obviously, I'm late to this party, but it's obvious that you judge any chairman by his record. Kenwright hasn't got us relegated, but his time in charge has been one of decline.

Now there may be lots of good reasons for this, and he may have done a really good job despite that decline. But he's in charge and there's not much more to say on the matter.

He could have resigned in disgust at Koeman's spending. He could have walked away at any point. He didn't and therefore, for better or worse, fair or not, he will always be seen as part of that decline.

Craig Harrison
151 Posted 28/03/2023 at 20:27:23
Reading the BBC website, I came across this bit of information:

“Premier League chief executive Richard Masters has told MPs he cannot comment on whether his organisation is investigating who has control of Newcastle and if it is re-examining its approval of the club's Saudi takeover.”

“Newcastle's takeover by Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund (PIF) was approved after "legally binding assurances" the Saudi government would not have any control over the club.”

“However, in a US court case, documents published last month described the PIF as "a sovereign instrumentality of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia" and PIF Governor and Newcastle chairman Yasir Al-Rumayyan as "a sitting minister of the government" with "sovereign immunity".”

Between us, Chelsea being over FFP, Nottingham Forest about to release their accounts which aren't going to be good, Man City being charged, and now Newcastle's investment being possibly a little dodgy, things could get very interesting.

I presume the FA will want to make an example out of a club.

Will Mabon
152 Posted 28/03/2023 at 20:31:08
Craig – there'll be no-one left!
Will Mabon
159 Posted 28/03/2023 at 21:25:36
Christine, I'll read that and get back to you with my own subjective review ;-)
Tony Everan
163 Posted 28/03/2023 at 21:45:57
The trouble with facts and anything to do with Everton FC is that nobody, from the owner to the ball boys, has got the foggiest idea what the heck is going on , thanks to the Laurel and Hardy tribute act running the show.

Danny O’Neill
170 Posted 28/03/2023 at 23:28:52
In other news, Alan Myers is suggesting the stadium is on course to be completed on time. I don't know if that is fact, but I trust him as a source to be optimistic.

And this one highlighted to me by the font of knowledge that is Chris W:. A BBC report, but something going on? Speculation.

Jerome Shields
171 Posted 28/03/2023 at 23:34:23

You have something there.Thought the Board say they where surprised, they knew before anyone else the real situation.

The delays in Gordon contract negotiations against a background, known only by a few, of the need to sell him as well as Richarlison.The attempts at part deal to get a forward.The need of a investor that would introduce cash into the Club.Barret Baxendale and 26 new positions.The strategic review that missed the gaping hole in the finances.The large wage% of players, but also the high wage percentage of Directors and staff, the latter never addressed.MSP directors at Goodison and the Board not turning up, because of imminent,.Not The way to make a good impression. The informed Journalists, saying all was well with the Premier League in January.No more AGM's.The delay in the Final Accounts till the end of March, the legal deadline. and the Premier League getting them in March.Then out of the blue getting refered to a Independent commission, just as the Fans were about to catch their breathe.

You really wonder who is writing the script for these cowboys.

Paul Birmingham
172 Posted 29/03/2023 at 00:50:07
Time, to take stock, and think.

A stinkin bad week, PR, wise for Everton, and like every Evertonian, we have our views and care for Everton FC.

But what is the reality, “Status Quo”, of EFC, and the business management, of EFC, the last 40 years, plus?

What is the foundation, of these EPL, “allegations, “against Everton, and what code, statute laws, are the EPL, considering invoking, against Everton, if scenario, X, is proven?

Unless I’ve missed it, these are so far, allegations, which don’t, appear to be valid?

Speculation, kills, but it’s concerning, in view of what has or hasn’t gone on, or should have gone on, by the Board, following protocol and EPL policy,, the last 35 years.

To beat Spurs, on next Monday night.


Eric Myles
173 Posted 29/03/2023 at 04:44:04
Craig #151, "I presume the FA will want to make an example out of a club."

The FA haven't even got started yet, it's just the Premier League so far, but I doubt the FA will bother with us as we haven't won one of their pots in years. Unless maybe they have rules that can exclude us from their competitions if found guilty by the PL.

The FA would more likely be interested in City as they may have the power to strip them of their pots.

Eric Myles
174 Posted 29/03/2023 at 04:51:23
Martin #135, "If you make a statement that you can't show to be true then you are by definition a liar."

Tell that to The Pope (who is infallible!) And any other religious leader that says that god exists.

And #137 "Why do you guys not stop hijacking this thread". It's YOU that's hijacked this thread with your nonsense posts!

Jerome Shields
175 Posted 29/03/2023 at 05:28:23
Actually the whole Everton PR is a shambles.They obviously don't have a plan, or not allowed to.Their main function is to make bland statement for the Board, wheel out players and really only do knee jerk press releases to counter Board critisim.They do this against a background leaks by unnamed sources to the press, with always the one agenda, which is bullshit. Actually the Board communication with the Fans has always been sparse and condescending. The Board losing all creditability means this will be the situation until they are gone. This is not acceptable in the current situation.

Moshiri's pullover interview which was a attempt to pullover one on the fans, looks now like a complete and utter sham now. He really needs to address the failings of not having things' under control and doing something about them' as he continually suggested throughout it.

Has he still got confidence in the Board and Executives of Everton?

When in enough enough after failure after failure,which is now a continual spiral downwards.Really the aggregate losses is a indicator of abysmal performance to some extent at all levels in the Club..

Peter Mills
176 Posted 29/03/2023 at 09:18:35
Will#152, they may just invite Barcelona, Real Madrid, PSG, Juventus and Bayern to replace those clubs mentioned and what a super league they would have.
Tony Abrahams
177 Posted 29/03/2023 at 10:17:47
The more you think about the board’s behavior, releasing a statement on the morning of the Southampton game, to say they had been advised not to attend for their own safety, then the more you can see how cynical they really are. (This is what I see, anyway)

A massive two fingers up to the Evertonians, who have now had enough of these inept charlatans, and a massive two fingers up to the owner Farhad Moshiri, who allegedly had outside investors coming to the game on that day.

The player has finally fluffed his lines and totally misread the situation, and although he’s no longer welcome at Goodison, at least he can still go to the away games, whilst putting on his sad face.

These phonies have traded off the People’s club for years, but still won’t let others sit in their empty seats🤮

James Hughes
178 Posted 29/03/2023 at 11:02:58
Tony, I agree with that and have posted similar just after the event. He has found out that you cannot fool all the people all of the time.

He has been found out and now has nowhere left to go. Blaming Us fans on the day of a peaceful protest and claiming Lil' Miss Dynamite was put on a headlock was a step too far. Yes he basically just gave us a two finger salute

Mind you it seems there are some who are still fooled but that may just be another myth

Tony Abrahams
179 Posted 29/03/2023 at 11:11:26
I’d definitely argue it’s more a statement of fact rather than a myth James!
Paul Kossoff
180 Posted 29/03/2023 at 15:52:53
If they can do this to Juventus one of the worlds top clubs in Europe, what will the premier league do to us?
Fifa can confirm that following a request by the Italian FA (FIGC), the chairperson of Fifa disciplinary committee has decided to extend the sanctions imposed by FIGC on several football officials to have worldwide effect," a statement from the world's governing body read.

The entire board of the Serie A club, including president Andrea Agnelli and vice-president Pavel Nedved, resigned in November as a police investigation into the club's transfer activity continued.

Juventus were subsequently docked 15 points by the FIGC in January. The Serie A club were accused of fixing their balance sheets by artificial gains from club transfers.
Yes I know we are in the UK we aren't as powerful as Juventus but If they can throw the book and some of the library at
them to make an example what will they do to us?

Tony Abrahams
181 Posted 29/03/2023 at 17:40:07
Moise Kean is probably going to be in there somewhere Paul.

The people in charge of most top clubs are used to getting their own way by hook or by crook, so breaking the rules in some way, won’t be that uncommon imo.

Madrid and Barcelona, have both had unprecedented debts, but they seem to just be able to carry on regardless, or is it because FFP, has been set up to help the elite get through almost anything?

Rob Halligan
182 Posted 29/03/2023 at 23:02:21
The way I see it now, based on what I’ve been told today, then we are totally in the clear. Fabio Paratici, the former Spurs managing director, who was found guilty of false accounting at Juventus, seems to have also done the same at Spurs with regards to the Dele Alli transfer. I’ve been told that he put £40M as the transfer fee received from us for Alli, through the Spurs books, despite not a penny changing hands, and highly unlikely any money will change hands. Even if any payment was to be made to Spurs, it would be no more than £10M, as the vast majority of the deal was add ons, which was never going to happen. I doubt even £10M will be paid to Spurs, as Dele Alli is highly unlikely to play the required number of games to trigger that payment.

It seems we are being investigated by the premier league for something which they have already cleared us of, and according to law, you cannot be charged for the same crime twice. So if the premier league want to start any investigation into the Dele Alli transfer, then I suggest they look at the Spurs accounts and see what that all brings out in the wash.

Tottenham Hotspur……….a small time shithouse club. Big club my arse!!

Don Alexander
183 Posted 29/03/2023 at 23:34:35
Rob, you can now be charged twice with the same crime providing that compelling evidence of guilt latterly comes to light, but our farce isn't subject to these criminal law mandates, or observable transparency.

It's subject to very opaque Premier League mandates, maybe being scrutinised by very opaque Tory government mandates, into very opaque Everton accountability, as has been the way under the Moshiri/Kenwright destruction of our club for years, and several more now to come whilst they're still there.

Christine Foster
184 Posted 30/03/2023 at 00:10:43
Rob, its a mute point, because whilst we have Alli, he is effectively on loan to us, until any monies other than salary is paid to Spurs. So we cannot put him as a liability of 40m (Christ I hope not, but I wonder if thats what they have done) or conversely if Spurs have shown the full transfer as income, then we would have had to show it as a cost (have we?) One way or another this looks dodgy accountancy, hence the call to an independent assessment..
Paul Hewitt
185 Posted 30/03/2023 at 06:19:15
The story about Delli ain't true. Any transfer we do would have to go through the PL first, the terms of that deal would have been told to them. The PL would have known no money would be paid until a certain amount of games had been played. It's a none story.
Steve Brown
186 Posted 30/03/2023 at 06:56:30
Rob @ 182. I heard something similar.

I was told yesterday by someone who knows the Everton hierarchy that the issue relates to the terms of ONE transfer deal that season. The issue is how that deal was accounted for that year.

He didn’t share which deal that was, but it is possible you are right on highlighting the Dele deal and how that was reported by Spurs and ourselves.

Paul Hewitt
187 Posted 30/03/2023 at 07:00:39
Steve @186. The PL have to agree all our transfer deals first. So how can they now punish us for one ?
Steve Brown
188 Posted 30/03/2023 at 07:10:47

I think the issue Paul is the what we reported in the deal to the PL does not align with how the transfer Is treated for accounting purposes by one of the clubs.

That is if the Dele Alli deal is the one under scrutiny.

Paul Hewitt
189 Posted 30/03/2023 at 07:23:11
If that's true Steve then it's spurs who should be punished. I don't see this being about a transfer deal to be honest.
Rob Halligan
190 Posted 30/03/2023 at 08:14:38
If it’s about one transfer in the 2021 / 22 season, then who did we get? In the summer I think it was only Demarai Gray for £1.5M. Andros Townsend and Rondon were both free. In the January window, we signed Mykolenko for around £22M, Donny van De Beek on loan and Dele Alli. As far as I can remember, we didn’t sign anybody else in the season. So the only player any charge can relate to is Dele Alli, as I hardly think the £1.5M signing of Demarai Gray warrants even a sniff from the premier league, and the Mykolenko fee would have been compensated by the sale of Lucas Digne for about £25M to Villa. So, if anything, just for that season alone, 2021 / 22, we were pretty much even, and maybe a couple of quid in profit.

Paul # 185, you say it’s not true about Dele Alli, and yet again you state something that is “Fact”, so how do you know it’s not true, where’s your evidence to suggest it’s not true? I’m not saying what I’ve heard to be true, but it does make sense when you think about it.

Don # 183, of course, you are right that you can be charged for the same offence twice, providing new evidence comes to light that was missed first time round. If this Fabio Paratici has entered £40M into the spurs accounts as received in full, and I know that clubs are allowed to do that in terms of financing, then he’s wrong to have done it because at the moment we haven’t paid Spurs a single penny for Alli, and highly unlikely too.

Anyway, it’s me last day on the Costa Del Sol, before flying home tomorrow, and prepare for the game on Monday night against………….Oh yeah, Spurs. A small time club!!

Brent Stephens
191 Posted 30/03/2023 at 08:19:18
This developing scenario - that the EPL have an issue with just one deal in the last financial year, towards that year's end; and that we were unwitting / innocent players in a Dele Alli transfer scam that was "fraudulently" used by somebody at, and for, the Spurs end of the deal - is a convincing explanation for what's going on. I hope it's the explanation that lands.
Paul Hewitt
192 Posted 30/03/2023 at 08:36:14
Rob the PL sanction all our transfers. So they just admitting they have messed up.
Robert Tressell
193 Posted 30/03/2023 at 08:38:05
The Mykolenko deal must have been the last major deal out of Ukraine before the war. There may be some angle there as regards source of and destination of the transfer funds.

The Dele Alli deal is also a very odd deal which looks like a cross between a free transfer and a loan with requirement to buy.

Brent Stephens
194 Posted 30/03/2023 at 08:39:27
Paul, " I don't see this being about a transfer deal to be honest."

If this isn't about any transfer deal, what is it?

Rob Halligan
195 Posted 30/03/2023 at 08:47:08
Paul, we had two frees, a loan, a paltry £1.5M payment for Demarai Gray, a payment of £22M for Mykolenko, compensated for with the sale of Lucas Digne, and Dele Alli. So if, as you say, the premier league sanction all transfer deals, and you state as “Fact” it’s not the Dele Alli transfer they’re looking at, then which one out of the other five is it?
Paul Hewitt
196 Posted 30/03/2023 at 09:07:09
Who says it over a transfer rob?
Paul Hewitt
197 Posted 30/03/2023 at 09:26:37
BBC reporting PL clubs being investigated for tax avoidance. We could be the first.
Tony Abrahams
198 Posted 30/03/2023 at 09:33:51
We knew we were in trouble and we knew the fans would have strangled us “again”, so please have mercy on us, one more time.
Brendan McLaughlin
199 Posted 30/03/2023 at 09:39:07
A possible explanation if the Dele Alli "transfer" is the issue.

Everton acquire Dele Alli on an initial free transfer with a £40 million fee to be triggered once he reaches a certain number of games played. He doesn't reach the required number of games and Everton accordingly don't reflect the £40 million in the accounts.

The Premier League, however, take the view that as the £40 million threshold could have been triggered during the 20/21 financial year then the £40 million should have been reflected in the accounts for 20/21.

Tony Abrahams
200 Posted 30/03/2023 at 09:39:47
Rob, don’t forget about Nathan Patterson, although I think we also received around £7 million, for James Rodriguez?

Brian Harrison
201 Posted 30/03/2023 at 10:08:58
I think we have now reached the tipping point and at some point the cartel of clubs trying to protect their status will be over. The Premier league have now allowed nation states to own clubs so they need to remove all the financial shackles to let each club spend exactly what they want. Trying to maintain a level playing field in this day and age is for the birds, and maybe the breaking up of the cartel here and in Europe will be the best in the long term. When Sir John Moore's was buying players there were no restraints then and there shouldn't be now. The only rule I would bring in is that owners cant leave the club with any more debt than when they took over the club and they must sign a bond to that effect. So those worrying about owners leaving and the debt beng left with the club wont happen.
The cartel who have had there way for to long will no doubt railroad against the changes, but if you look at the paying off of refs by Barcelona or the financial goings on by Juventus, they cant be trusted to stick to the rules they help draw up.
Clive Rogers
202 Posted 30/03/2023 at 10:33:16
Can’t see the problem being transfers. Surely it must be the latest set of financial results which were due in December but have been kept secret. They may have been submitted to the FL.
Tony Everan
203 Posted 30/03/2023 at 10:41:04
So we’re still none the wiser about what the exact meatier of this P&S transgression is. The fans deserve better, I sincerely hope that the owner and financial director are going to explain and defend the accounts tomorrow. We need to know what we are accused of and our robust position in proving that is unjust. Essentially backed with hard evidence! When the future of the club is at stake, we need answers not silence.

Amid all the speculation of which transfer they are looking at, could it just be an outgoing transfer that they are investigating? My brain works overtime and goes off on tangents regarding Everton, but it goes like this. What if the £7.2m fee received from Al Rayyan for Rodriguez is false. An Usmanov/Moshiri ghost company pays an Al Rayyan ghost third party /company £7.2m. Then they use the money to buy James, our P&S situation is then massaged.

Sorry about speculating a step too far, but it’s an angle of rule avoidance I’ve often thought maybe be exploited by ruthless and desperate accountants.

Brian Harrison
204 Posted 30/03/2023 at 10:59:59
There is a very interesting piece on the BBC website about tax officials investigating loopholes that clubs have been using something that's called Dual Registration. This is when an agent represents a player he will receive a fee or commission and the whole transaction will incur him to pay income tax, National insurance and VAT on the fee or commission.

But tax officials are investigating when half the agents fee is paid by the club it for some strange reason incurs no tax payments by the agent. Apparently this first came to light in 2021 and has been going on ever since.

Barry Hesketh
205 Posted 30/03/2023 at 11:28:19
Brian @201
There wasn't restrictions on how much you could spend in the Mersey Millionaire days, however, Sir John wanted to bring in established European stars in the early days of his tenure, but wasn't allowed to, due to UK Labour laws at the time. Imagine if we could have purchased the likes of Eusebio et al in those days.
Barry Hesketh
206 Posted 30/03/2023 at 11:45:53
According to the Athletic, relayed via the Echo:

Everton say they are “entirely confident” of their compliance and plan to “robustly defend” their position in front of the commission. But this is uncharted territory and the outcome is far from certain. Unlike with City, the Premier League are yet to explain why they believe the club may have fallen foul of their regulations.

Despite speculation to the contrary, the complaint is not thought to centre on the deal to sign Dele Alli from Tottenham.

Up to now, Everton have dealt with league officials, adopting a transparent, open-book policy throughout — including transfer dealings. This had been expected to aid their cause — it did for the last FFP cycle when the Premier League approved their COVID-19 losses — but an independent commission may see things differently. It is now a different ball game entirely.

As Everton are just the second side after City to be referred to an independent commission, there is no precedent to draw on. But initial indications are that a lengthy process should be expected. Both sides will present to the commission and have the right to appeal. If Everton are found to have breached the regulations, potential sanctions include transfer restrictions, a points deduction or possible expulsion from the league. This referral, which came as a shock internally, represents the kind of existential threat mentioned by Moshiri in January.

Phil Bellis
207 Posted 30/03/2023 at 12:03:03
Re Sir John and restrictions on buying foreign players

Barry Hesketh
208 Posted 30/03/2023 at 12:09:39
Phil @207
Thanks for that link. It seems strange but a local club followed our 'methods' for the next 20 years or so and they were lauded for their 'red machine' like qualities.

“Everton are the most unpopular team in England because they play without enjoyment … once their opponents are in possession they mark and tackle harder than any other team we have seen. Their stop-at-all-cost policy leads them into such shabbiness – and worse – as to alienate them from the sympathy of all but half the population of Liverpool.”

Rob Halligan
209 Posted 30/03/2023 at 20:19:45
Man Utd are in debt to the tune of nearly £1B which includes money owed for transfer fees. Are they going to be investigated by the Premier League, with the threat of points deduction, or will they just worm their way out of it because they are one of the so-called big six clubs, which also includes Spurs?

Spurs……a big club — my arse!

Manchester United: Premier League club owe almost £1bn, reveal new figures

Ian Linn
210 Posted 31/03/2023 at 01:19:12
Rob #209 you beat me to it, apparently it’s ok for Manchester United to be a billion quid in debt

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