Premier League clubs unsettled by timing of Everton charges

I never subscribed to the idea that we were picked on by the Premier League (for whatever reason), but this does make me wonder.

Though very much the paupers, we have a greater heritage than some (most?) of the upstarts. Relegation would weaken our dissenting voice very considerably.

On the face of it, Everton are a badly run club and, on the allegations in the Mail article, focused on Kenwright quoting several named/unnamed sources, were a basket-case of a club.

You deduct points when a club is deliberately breaking the rules. For example, setting up a new league behind The Premier League's back.

There needs to be an independent enquiry into the affairs of the Premier League. And this should have been done 20 years ago.

We will know more when the accounts are finally published this week but, if this was an open-and-shut case of flagrant financial breaches, the Premier League would surely have seen no need for an independent inquiry. They would have simply moved straight to the laying of charges.

Our transfer outgoings over the last four windows, with oversight from the Premier League, have been somewhere between modest in the summer of 2021 to non-existent in January 2023. If there is a surprise lurking within the accounts, I suspect it may concern our loss of sponsorship money from USM etc. Following our Covid losses, the Premier League may have taken the view this time round independent corroboration will serve to stave off possible action on the part of other clubs.

That's my optimistic view. The pessimistic view that the club have either messed up their sums or indulged in false accounting doesn't bear thinking about.

You only have to look at all the on-pitch decisions made against us. And then compare them to what happens to the the Top 5 or 6 clubs.

They all picked up a small fine which then got waved away, so they never paid a single penny.

If they come down on Everton, then the above needs to be brought up.

As I understand things, the Premier League wouldn't 'charge' any club directly for any breach of its rules; it would always, if it deemed it necessary, refer the club to an independent commission to decide if there was a case to answer and, if there was a case to answer, the commission would decide upon what the punishment should be.

There could be an appeal by either the club in the dock or by the Premier League if either of them believed the commission's punishment to be too lenient or too harsh, the commission would then either ratify or alter their original decision and that would be the end of the case.

What I'm unsure of, is whether the Premier League would be 'honour bound' to accept the findings of the independent commission or whether it could ignore the commission's decision. I assume it would be crazy to believe the Premier League could do anything but adhere to the final decision.

I may have got things completely wrong in my musings above and if anyone has a different take, I'm all ears, or should that be eyes?

Either the Premier League are seeking to pacify Leeds and Burnley with the outcome likely the same – nothing to hide, or there's a stinking hole in our finances.

First team to have a player suspended for simulation and no-one else since.

First team to be highlighted on the news for flying to the games.

And that's not counting all the blatant ref decisions against us. For years we've been done over by refs for not complaining. Now that we do surround the ref complaining, we get highlighted.

The Premier League have got it in for us.

I think you are right. The referral to an independent commission and a right of appeal to the commission is the process which the Premier League has established and which it is using in the case of Manchester City's alleged breaches.

What I am struggling with is why the Premier League have been less forthcoming about our alleged breaches compared with City's.

This feels like of the premier league being totally fed up of feeling hoodwinked by our board.

The recent events and lies told by the board about the fans and throwing them under the bus makes me convinced they are arrogant enough to think they can pull the wool over the premier league.

Conspiracy v Mismanagement, lies, arrogance and exhausting relationships with people (premier league and fans) who are trying to help

I know which one I would put my money on. Hopefully I am wrong - I see myself as an optimist but I have no faith in our board or owner to have done or do the right thing. All we have is a track record of lies and broken promises.(too many to list here)

Big enough to be seen as an example - small enough not to derail the gravy train.

But the timing and what basis, of this allegation, regards Everton's undertakings, must come out soon?

But who at this stage aside from the board and the EPL, know the context and potential implications, for all parties, at this stage?

But valid reasons to recruit a new Everton Board, this summer, as much to provide protection and ring fence Everton FC, (easier said than done, and to mitigate risk, with the dysfunctional, and erratic EPL).

God only knows, but there feels like some fudging of facts, potentially by the EPL, and God forbid, Everton.

Surely any previous final reviews, and their aftermath, on Everton's previous investigations, must have been signed off by all parties, and must be statue in legal terms?

Focus, on Spurs, and no more to beat Spurs, tomorrow, week.

UTFTs!

…..then surely the EPL have shot themselves in the foot?

Anyone with half a brain would query the EPL saying Everton have been compliant, the EPL have signed off on subsequent transfer business and yet the EPL have referred us to an independent commission?!?!?!

The Government (or ANYONE with a brain) would look at the absurdity of the situation and say that the EPL don't have a clue: get an independent regulator in.

Whether you think it was a worthwhile gamble or not, would we do that if we were walking a financial P&S tightrope at the beginning of 2022?

Our board are incompetent but they are not mentally incapacitated.

Everton spent an awful lot of money on very poor players, but we needed to spend a lot of money to match the teams at the top. If we had of spent that money on very good players, chances are we still would have fallen foul of FFP. We are in the red by 100's of millions of pounds, with only 4 teams making the Champions League, it's unlikely we would have recouped that figure in the allotted time.

Kenwright isn't good for much these days, but he *does* seem to be an expert at self-preservation when threatened, so let's hope he can put some of that dark magic to use for the benefit of the club for once.

I think FFP is, as you say, covertly designed to keep the elite in their elite club and make it difficult for those aspiring clubs to get past the door man. Name not on the list, you're not coming in type of thing!

I'd have to study, but P&S, even if applied fairly, may still make it difficult, but if a club does generate income, they can spend it as I understand. It's when they spend what they don't have it becomes a matter for the regulators. We spent more than what we generated, so broke the rules, even though we were apparently in consultation with the FA. What has changed? I have no idea.

But then someone more educated tell me how Chelsea can spend approximately £500 million in one window, allegedly, and not break the rules? Yes they are continuously in the Champions League and their revenues dwarfs Everton, but even that seems an unrealistic amount for any club in one window?

And Nottingham Forest buying 30 players, or whatever it was? Despite their promotion windfall, that surely tips them over the edge?

If, and a big IF, this is applied across the board, the Everton saga could have opened a can of worms for the FA if they genuinely go and scrutinise everyone's books. I can just see many an accountant furiously scribbling away in a dark room across the country right now.

I suppose that isn't applicable right now and will be subject to when they have to present the books for the 2022/23 season?

The finances are a mess and obviously have been a disaster for years.

Whilst it is undoubtedly unfair to the supporters and would be sad and life-changing for some employees who might be affected through no fault of their own, I feel the club deserves to be relegated, either through our own playing ability or by punishment via points deduction.

If you haven't already listened to it, there is a great podcast on ToffeeWeb within the following article 'ToffeeWeb Podcast: Finances Special with The Esk'

It would be interesting to see what punishment could be meted out if we were relegated naturally and subsequently found guilty. My understanding from the podcast is that whilst there are set tariffs for punishment within the Championship such as points deductions, there are no such tariffs within the Premier League, so any punishment can be appealed further delayong any 'agreed' outcome.

To me, the logical sanction for us would be a transfer embargo. That would allow us to trade out of trouble. Indeed its not unlike what we've been doing voluntarily anyway since Ancelotti left.

It would be very hard but I expect we could just about manage, with Dyche at the helm.

With each new set of accounts, Everton's majority shareholder, Farhad Moshiri, has narrowly avoided a reckoning for his erratic running of the club.
Now there are grave fears that it is finally catching up with him.
Everton are contesting the Premier League's decision to refer an allegation of a breach of profitability and sustainability regulations to an independent commission, but do not underestimate the sense of foreboding that it has gone this far. For a club in the midst of another relegation fight, the prospect of a points deduction flirts with Premier League doomsday.
No wonder the statement on Friday was received like a detonation, Everton employees were taken aback by the decision as – below ownership level, at least – there was no anticipation of any action, given how relatively prudent the club have been recently, and the belief there has been full transparency and co-operation with the Premier League.
Such a robust pursuit of one its members is unprecedented, evidence the new Premier League chair, Alison Brittain, is determined to hold clubs to account where in the past there have been accusations of leniency, not least last season when Burnley and Leeds United led the charges against Everton.
Although the alleged breaches follow the receipt of the accounting period between June 30, 2021 and July 31, 2022, it is the cumulative impact of previous financial results that has put the club in such jeopardy of serious sanctions.
Moshiri has been acting like a gambler chasing his losses since his first transfer splurges resulted in a failure which at first could have been described as appalling but may come to be more accurately described as catastrophic. In all, he has spent an estimated £700million on new players since 2016.
The club have been handing out extravagant contracts to underperforming players, and had to pay off six sacked managers – Roberto Martinez, Ronald Koeman, Sam Allardyce, Marco Silva, Rafa Benitez and Frank Lampard. He also spent a fortune recruiting Carlo Ancelotti, who later left for Real Madrid, and backed him with some extraordinary deals for the likes of James Rodriguez, who was paid £250,000 a week at a time when Everton were already in serious danger of being sanctioned.
The record shows how each time Everton have seemed to be on course for a more serene period – their former director of football Marcel Brands was among the sane voices advising of the perils of veering from a sane financial and recruitment course – the whims of the owner to scatter expensive stardust took hold. Moshiri has suggested he has deferred to recruiters on transfers, and fans when deciding to swing the axe. Whatever his motives or intentions, the consequences now promise to be dire.
Successive managers have inherited a mess trying to work with the limitations imposed by the financial fair play guidelines. It was Benitez's job to navigate a course through in July 2021. There is some irony that the Premier League believe Everton tipped over the edge in a period which saw moderate spending on Andros Townsend, Demarai Gray and Salomon Rondon, while Benitez fought a PR battle to get Rodriguez off the wage bill. High-earners Bernard, Theo Walcott and Moise Kean also departed, and Lucas Digne – also on a significant salary – was sold to Aston Villa.
But Benitez's unpopularity meant he, too, was fired, alongside his coaching staff, in January 2022 after signing Vitalii Mykolenko and Nathan Patterson. The cost of hiring Lampard and another backroom team was an avoidable expense had there been more foresight and clarity in previous decisions. The cost of Lampard's subsequent dismissal will be covered in next year's accounts.
As in previous seasons, Everton might have hoped that clear evidence of trying to remedy the errors of the past would demonstrate a move in the right direction.
They sold Richarlison last summer for a fee which could rise to £60 million, and by the time Anthony Gordon left for Newcastle United, Everton believed themselves to be in a position where they could afford to sign recruits.
The failure to do so in the final week of the January window may prove more expensive than many imagined at the time if they are forbidden from buying players this summer, although a temporary transfer ban would be infinitely more desirable than a points deduction.
It remains to be seen what Sean Dyche makes of it all. Last weekend, the manager was maintaining a positive momentum with a hard-earned point at Chelsea to edge Everton away from the bottom three.
It is inconceivable that he had prior notice of such a threat when agreeing to take the job. Some of Dyche's predecessors felt they were working with two hands tied behind their back. Any possible points deduction is more likely to apply to next season, but if he is expected to rebuild despite an inability to sign players, Dyche, too, will feel like he is operating in a strait-jacket.

It's absolutely sickening but until people make a stand, together nothing will change. Ignorance is not an excuse.

I say this with a heavy heart but the club unfortunately cannot argue with any punishment it gets. Kenwright has done us good and proper, and those who have stood by him "with at least he's one of us shit" I'm sure will still think the club is a scapegoat. Moshiri is Kenwrights man remember guys.

Then there is also the issue of who owned Everton, I think given all the facts its hard not to believe that Usmanov was the real owner. I know the club have categorically denied this but before he signed to become our manager, Ancelotti stated in the press that he had a 2 hour meeting with Usmanov before agreeing to become the manager. Also Benitez spent 2 days on Usmanovs Yacht of the coast of Sardinia before signing to replace Ancelotti as manager. I can never remember any sponsor of a club interviewing likely prospective managers so if he was just a sponsor how or why was this allowed.

So not only did we clearly transgress the rules, but we also have a close allay of Putin as our owner, and should this commission pursue that avenue we might be hit with a double whammy. I cant see how on earth Everton can persuade any independent commission that we didnt break the financial rules, and this clearly underlines the need for an independent commissioner to look after these issues as quite clearly the Premier league is unfit to do this job.

The plot thickens and gets more confusing.

Now I'm seeing a tweet saying we want to sign Viktor Gyokeres and a 㿠M Brazilian starlet.

It came from the Echo's EFC News Twitter link.

All speculation of course, but seems odd in given the circumstances of the past few days.

A restart/reset is needed. If it gets rid of Kenwright and the board and stop living decades in the past. Don't know what happens RE BMD though.

This looks like a late move to feign regulation where there is little method or action. That they chose us could be conspiracy but then again we looked the part I'm thinking this is not the story whereas the white paper will be.

Yes the Everton board are incompetent but it is obvious they have been working with the PL and had been told everything is OK.

Everton have suffered 2 years of penalties by having their spending capped. That should be enough. We could be relegated at the end of this season and one of the reasons why is that we weren't allowed to spend big on a striker.

Just like VAR we now have to trust the fairness of the PL which only recently did nothing to the Super 6 after forming a new competition behind their backs. If there was ever a points deduction due this was it.

FFP was brought in clearly to help the top teams who had already spent stay at the top.

Everton having to sell Richarlison to Spurs demonstrates the obvious unfairness and on Monday night we will see the obvious unfairness of the match officials played out.

Personally, I think Everton should call the PL's bluff and say we have had enough of all this shit.

And it is shit without any doubt. The money spent by City, Chelsea, Manu, Liverpool etc. is outrageous. But that's ok let's pick on the club with the stupid board.

the source we really need is one that shows the detail of the arrangement with the Premier League. Absent this we have no idea what the hell is the situation.

I very much doubt such a simple mistake(s) would be made by the accountants and financial staff that actually operate the club monetarily.

It all seemed very odd when it was being suggested we needed to sell, then did sell Richarlison... then started spending money.

So much we don't know here.

I'd be shocked if such of the avoidable mistakes were made. I'd then be suspicious if this were the case.

have to say, that one made me think.

We were the one club that spoke out openly about it, we were seen as keep your noses out.

Then we had the letter of apology for the none penalty against Rodri, which followed by 3 Everton players, being shown three Red cards in the following three games and I may be wrong with this account, but since then, I can only recall Everton being awarded one penalty away at Forest, not sure if our two penalties v Burnley was before or after the apology.

I cannot recall since that letter, an opposing player being sent off against Everton.

Every little incentive the fans Have done to create an atmosphere has been outlawed, and been made to look bad, the pitch invasion was peaceful, we had come from 2 nil down to win and ensure safety, it was pure and raw emotion, but I get the thing about keeping off the pitch.

Then for years you have the elite lighting up Europe with coloured smoke bombs, pure passion, but as soon as Everton do it to create an atmosphere it gets outlawed..

You only have to look at some of the diabolical var decisions against us, and shocking refs, never have I known a season like this one where we come away scratching our heads at the refs nearly every game, you can script it, foul after foul by opposing team, the first one we do and yellow card is shown.

There is no doubt in my mind, Everton out of arms way will be a result for the Prem league and the elite.

In regards to the accounts, if this is down to Everton, then we only have ourselves to blame, whatever the outcome, this board needs to be removed, and put competent people, who know what they are doing in their place, so this never happens again, but I still think we are being used as an example, for the implications City are in, and we are the bench mark for their hearing.

I can only agree mate, you are spot on. The list of bad/corrupt decisions is endless.

We all know our board are stupid. But the punishment should fit the crime. And if the Top 6 didn't receive a points deduction for their plotting a new competition behind the PL's back (the ultimate crime) why is everyone talking about points deduction now?

As previously said we have already received a transfer limitation for the last two years.

'Premier League clubs unsettled by timing of Everton charges' - do me a favour. We are in the middle of a relegation battle and we now have to contend with this. The PL knew exactly what they were doing with the timing. It's aimed at us and us only.

They have us handcuffed in every way. We can't spend, we can't complain about a ref or VAR as we know it could be seen as detrimental to our case.

What's next? A ban for Doucoure and McNeil after Leeds tried to kick us off the Park a few weeks ago.

I'm with Christine Foster we should walk away and form a new League. Seriously, because this league is corrupt.

My guess is that the I/C have called for this decision by the Premier League to be examined by them. In this case, as incompetent as they are, I think the Board have been shafted by the PL to save their own bacon.

Mind you, Everton Football club, with the tremendous and noble history since 1878, have been led down a hazardous road since Kenwright became Chairman. This could well be the end game, thanks to him.

We are now blaming our own executives who if they worked with the premier league kept within their financial regulations, and wouldn't the premier league have come down on them right away if they transgressed.

The Premier League has no confidence in the Board and is sanctioning the Club trying to force change to bring Everton back online with the Profit and Sustainability rules.

This means that the Board needs a change in personnel, who are more competent.I think this is a now necessary for Everton to regain creditability with the Premier League Authorities.

Accrington Stanley, Aston Villa, Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers, Burnley, Derby County, Everton, Notts County, Preston North End, Stoke City, West Bromwich Albion and Wolverhampton Wanderers.

Perhaps just call it The Original Football League...

On a serious note, I've often thought that a separate competition between those clubs would be of interest - perhaps made up of reserve players - bit like the old Central League

I agree with your comments but surly the major complaint, and I keep saying it, this Chairman and Board are staying until the OWNER F.Moshiri realizes that he created this problem by hiring them, and only He can fire them no matter how often we complain. and he must have realized by know the feelings of the majority of supporters on their feelings, especially on the Chairman.

What that might mean is that while we were working with the EPL to keep within limits, we might have been doing that based on what Everton (or more specifically our board) were providing in terms of numbers and information. If these turn out to be inaccurate and under estimating cost, whether due to stupidity or intent, we could end up with accounts for 2021/22 that will place us outside the £105 limit.

For 2022/3, it seems we have continued to operate frugally so it is entirely possible that our current position, or at least the one we are heading towards at season end, would have us back within the £105m loss because we will be losing at that point, one big, loss making season and replacing it with what might be nearer break even.

But this won't save us because the 21/22 accounts will reveal a matter of fact. Were we over on June 30 2022 or not? Our subsequent efforts to steady the ship (albeit in a manner detrimental to the team performance, with no striker) will at best be mitigation.

As Paul the Esk says on his podcast, there is no way this will be resolved before the end of the season. If nothing else, we have a right to appeal which will near double the timeframe. That is probably why the other relegation clubs are calling foul. A 6 or 9 point penalty would almost certainly see on of those clubs saved. One final question I also don't know the answer to. If Armageddon hits and we get relegated, does an EPL points penalty apply to the Championship given it's a different competition and promoter/regulator involved?

Respectfully, Jerome, we've seen no evidence of this. Anecdotally, the opposite in fact. It's said that we were/are working within some sort of agreement, advice, arrangement or whatever it is, after discussion with the Premier League.

Badly run for sure, in areas that we know, but there are aspects of which there is no information.

We could be in for a real kicking here, a kicking with perhaps a political malice. Or maybe not. The truth is required.

"I wonder if the resignation of our auditors in October 2022 is connected here. It seems they were unwilling to sign off the accounts which incidentally still haven't yet been published."

Something else to add to the "More info required" list.

have to say, I heard they'd "Gone" - but not confirmed.

Could be a defer queue building!

Mark, the resignation of our auditors was a loud blast that something was wrong; possibly relationships; possibly contractual issues; but more probably (?), and worringly, substantive issues around financial probity. As their resignation was public knowledge, it was perhaps an invite to the EPL to "have a closer look"; combine this with the EPL's possible muscle-flexing in view of government nosies about having a controlling hand in the financial comings-and-goings of the EPL.

We deserve to be relegated, we need to drop a division to reset ?!!

Are these people sane

We need to come out fighting and show the EPL that we have funds and we are sustainble. The only reset needed is the board

kenwright and the rest please exit stage right

When contacted by the ECHO, BDO declined to comment.

Consultancy UK

These are the top ten in Europe, not including January.

Chelsea: 𧶵.8m

Manchester United: 𧶎.2m

West Ham: 𧵛.8m

Tottenham: 𧵑m

Nottingham Forest: 𧵉.8m

Barcelona: 𧵁.7m

PSG: 𧴼.8m

Manchester City: 𧴵.6m

Bayern Munich: 𧴳.8m

Wolves: 𧴳m

Their income can't be able to sustain scrutiny surely? Nottingham Forest's wage bill now apparently consumes over 200% of their total revenues, the worst in the league

The story suggests they were unhappy with ownership but it does not seem at all impossible, given recent events, that there were instead disagreement over accounting principles.

One might foresee a happy ending here, that BDO did indeed audit the 2021/22 accounts, have agreed to be re-appointed and the accounts can form the basis of demonstrating a cumulative 3 season loss of less than £105m. I'm not sure what part BDO plays in calculating the relevant numbers for the EPL. While the accounts provide a basis for the calculation, they are not necessarily the actual calculation. Presumably they are not accountable as such for the EPL submission.

On the other hand there are multiple more unhappy alternative endings I can foresee...

That was sometime in 2022? So BDO might have resigned since then? And their concern might not have been club ownership in itself, but what the owners were doing?

Where that leaves them over the last 3 years is yet to be ascertained but this is before the takeover and the 600m spending so the current years accounts should be interesting.

And what about Chelsea? £121m loss in a single season? Does that help or hinder Everton's case when it is independently reviewed?

But that doesn't mean they are Everton's auditors going forward. Given what has been said, including reportedly by Everton, I'd say the odds are they won't be (even technically are not, as of now). Unless there are exceptional circumstances, you don't tend to hear of auditors resigning, they just don't do next year's accounts (or exceptionally do not sign off CY).

That there are concerns and issues seems to me to be very highly probable, albeit not certain (yet). When the club appears to say they are auditors 'as things stand' and a source supposedly from the club suggests there is an exploration of a new auditor, I draw my own conclusions. There is something afoot, even if not official. In hindsight I should have made this clear in the first para of my first post.

I'm not one for conspiracy theory but is there a common denominator between EFC, Man City, Chelsea and possibly Newcastle in the future. All these clubs are or werefinanced by organizations whom are persona non grata in certain political circles?

The hearing for Everton's alleged breach of financial rules "would be challenging" to complete by the end of the Premier League season, says football finance expert Kieran Maguire.

Speaking to BBC Radio Merseyside, Maguire said: "My understanding is that, for some time, all the money going out of Everton effectively had to be approved by the Premier League," said Maguire. "So they were treading a fairly fine line.

"Of course, there are all sorts of leaks and rumours, but my understanding is this could be linked to a single transaction in relation to the signing of a player.

There aren't many to scrutinize if that's the case, are there? But if that's the case one would wonder if it's the Dele Alli deal that, because of its unusual nature, which to be honest none of us know exactly what we are committed to, or the finer details of, then are the Premier League insinuating that the deal is not valid in some way?

Speculation of course, but that meal that Kenwright and Levy had could prove to bring the most costly Kenwright ever had, but leaving Everton FC go pick up the tab.

Coleman kept Mbabbe very quiet in the first half - all square at the break. A gutsy performance so far from the Irish.

This latest brush with the EPL investigations Team,, must hopefully signal the embers of the last performance of this masquerade of the Everton Board.

They can't be permitted back into Goodison Park, replacements must be found, but that could be another epic saga.

This is another burden, that adds extra pressure on to all the Teams at Everton FC.

But in Sean Dyche Everton have character, back bone and guts, and let's hope that Everton can over come these challenges off the Park, to stay focused and win enough games to stay up this season.

Now to focus on beating Spurs.

UTFTs!

31 Jan 2022 Dele Alli Tottenham Hotspur No Fee

31 Jan 2022 Donny van de Beek Manchester United Loan

13 Jan 2022 Anwar El Ghazi Aston Villa Loan

13 Jan 2022 Lucas Digne Aston Villa 㿅m

4 Jan 2022 Nathan Patterson Rangers 㾷m

1 Jan 2022 Vitalii Mykolenko Dynamo Kiev 㾾m

22 Sep 2021 James Rodriguez Al Rayyan ٥.2m

31 Aug 2021 Salomon Rondon Dalian Professional No Fee

20 Aug 2021 Andy Lonergan West Bromwich Albion No Fee

29 Jul 2021 Beni Baningime Hearts No Fee

22 Jul 2021 Bernard Duarte Sharjah FC 𧾦k

22 Jul 2021 Demarai Gray Bayer Leverkusen ٟ.7m

20 Jul 2021 Asmir Begovic Bournemouth No Fee

20 Jul 2021 Andros Townsend Crystal Palace No Fee

Christine, I am thinking the same, it's about the Dele Alli deal. Although there was no fee it's a commitment to 㾸.5m of wages. Whether the structured fees are relevant?, another one for Paul to give his opinion on.

Digne / Patterson Myko cancel each other out bar ٢m. Was this extra ٢m signed off with the League?

Can't forget Van Beek is on 120k pw , would have cost us ٠.5m in wages , was this sanctioned?

It could be taking these massive wages on Dele and Beek pushed us over the precipice. And the last minute pandemonium of it all led to catastrophic oversight to stay within the rules.

To say it “would be challenging” is a massive understatement, and I would go one further to say it's an absolute impossibility. Because in discussions with my Lawyer Son, who's practiced Sports Law during his career. This investigation will have to be more far reaching, than simply checking the clubs financial dealings, together with the published and audited accounts against the provisions of the EPL regulations.

Particularly in relation to extremely complex transfer transactions, because payments are never a straightforward single up front payment, but complicated instalments, and loan deals can be a myriad of “what ifs”, and the Deli transaction that Christine refers to looks like it could be a classic?

Therefore, if it's to be done thoroughly and professionally, which it has, if the the EPL are to convince the Govt they're capable of self governance, without the need of having a Govt Regulator imposed upon them? Then it's going to absorb an enormous amount of professional resource and time, requiring not only experts in football finance, but also similarly expert sports, (football) lawyers.

It will also require the cooperation of the clubs, players, agents, law firms and financial institutions involved in the transactions, together with the EPL themselves as they were supposedly vetting our transactions? The commissions forensic accountants and lawyers will also need access to the terms and conditions of each and every transaction during the period of the alleged offence, and that in itself will be a monumental task in working their way through each and every clause.

Not surprising then, that the EPL sparring match with City has taken a decade. So I'd say it's more than “challenging” for ours to reach a conclusion within a couple of months?

Where is that reported, Mick?

Both Everton and th Premier League have admitted that they were in close liaison on a voluntary bases for over two years.Whilst the Premier League told Everton what was required, with the additional involvement in transfers, it has now materialised that the Board were not capable of implementing the agreed/suggested plan to bring them within the Profitability and Sustainability Rules.The Premier League therefore had no choice but to refer Everton to a Independent Commission.What this is really says is that the Premier League has lost confidence in the Everton Board's competence.

"Conspiracy v Mismanagement, lies, arrogance and exhausting relationships with people (premier league and fans) who are trying to help."

"This feels like of the premier league being totally fed up of feeling hoodwinked by our board."

Just like the complaints levied against the board in their dealings with Liverpool City Council over Kings Dock.

And also in their dealings over Desperation Kirkby.

And who is the lowest common denominator in all three cases?

All I've seen over the last year is a club working hard to reduce its wage bill against a backdrop of lost commercial revenue due to international sanctions. I would be amazed if the PL took any substantive action.

Furthermore, these matters are typically big news when they are announced and largely forgotten about by the time that are quietly dropped. Let's just focus on football.

We took Putin's money via Usmanov via Moshiri and we pretended that we suddenly got amazing sponsorship deals that were so blatantly breaching rules that I assume it was done to taunt people and make a political point.

Sponsorship is so a brand can raise brand awareness, reach new customers and create a positive brand association.

Why would a Russian Mobile phone company that no one can use in the UK want to sponsor our women's team?

Why would a holdings company that has absolutely nothing to promote, no audience to reach and no reason to advertising sponsor our training ground?

Our violations have been so brazen (even worse than City's in their either arrogance or political point making) that it is no wonder that the club is going down the plug hole.

Something is horribly rotten. Bill Kenwright is a complete fool who makes terrible skinflint theatre productions and had made a few million from underpaying his staff, reusing old sets and costumes and then being hideous to anyone that tried to negotiate with him.

We let him buy our club as the Premier League was about to go global and now he's a multi, multi millionaire

He runs his theatre company like a joke and he's run our club like a joke. Now we're in the throes of Putin's money, Russian politics and some complete mess fronted by a bizarre Oligarch puppet in Moshiri.

What a bloody tragedy for our amazing fans and our wonderful history.

Feels like game over to me

Why where Everton refered to the Independent Commission and what does that tell you about the Board? Sure they where restricted, but did the Board change from how they have been conducting themselves for years?.Did they cut back in preserving their own and related positions?What is the sustained Fan protest about?What is the repeated campaigns of no confidence in the Board about by the small shareholders association about? What is the increasing use of the words Board incompetence about in the Media and by pundit?.

I would say incompetence and now complete loss of confidence in the Board. Paul the Esk is calling for the introduction of Corporate recovery specialusts., replacing the whole lot.

Whatever happens as a result of being referred to this committee, our buying of players and wages spent must be were the biggest changes need to come. Brighton and latterly Brentford have proved you can be competitive without spending a fortune on players or paying them ridiculous salaries.

This site revealed on 22 December last year that the government will set out its plans for an independent regulator in a white paper by the end of January.

The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport has since accelerated its search for new policy advisers, with four new aides expected to be appointed in the coming weeks.

The white paper will broadly define the proposed remit of the regulator but will not outline specific policy.

However, a financial source has told Football Insider that real-time monitoring is all but certain to be codified into profit and sustainability rules across the English pyramid in the coming years.

This system would allow the regulator to intervene before a club either falls foul of spending regulations or charts a course towards financial oblivion in the style of Bury or Macclesfield Town.

Everton have been involved in quasi-real-time monitoring in recent months, liaising with the Premier League to ensure that they remain within the division's defined financial parameters.

But as reported elsewhere, the now-concluded discussions were held on a voluntary basis and not mandated by the top flight.

The Toffees have recorded losses of over 𧸪million in the last three seasons alone and have only avoided penalties because of pandemic-related exemptions.

Elsewhere, a real-time monitoring structure has already been set up by both Uefa and the Football League.

The Premier League meanwhile is expected to soon mirror Uefa and introduce a new financial fair play system which ties wages, transfers and agent fees to turnover.'

Football Insider

Adam Williams 4 /1/23

Financial and Governance corresoondent.

Whilst the Premier League has engaged in voluntary discussion with Everton, any of it comments were made on aggregate losses prior to the 2020/2021 season.The estimate aggregate loss for 2021/2022 by Paul the Esk is 㿧 million, outside the required Profit and Sustainability Rules..The actual account for 2021/2022 have yet belatedly to be reassessed publically and the Premier League is the only one outside Everton to have seen the figures.

They have looked at the figures and given the above insight have went (#@&%&@#£) and refered Everton to the Independent Commission.As simple as.

Paul the Esk figure is only a estimate the real figures will be released on the 31st of March, on the last legally required day.

While an independent regulator is badly needed, I am sceptical when they are appointed and presumably paid by the Government. Also how many are going to be employed to work within the independent regulators remit, considering there are 92 clubs to oversee. Also how they manager real time spending on a day to day basis, especially during transfer windows would for me be a massive task. Also what legal authority will they have to have real time information of clubs. What powers will they have and will it be at the discretion of the independent regulator as to what punishment is handed out to clubs not complying.

Seems that clubs are unwilling or in some cases unable to adhere to the present rules, which are simple to understand. The rules at present allow any club to overspend by a set amount in any 3 year period, yet seems so far both City and Everton have been referred to the independent commission. Despite one having an accountant as the owner and the other has access to the best accountants money can buy.

I don't need to provide proof of anything sorry.

But you are now demanding proof from Jim, how does that work ?

You are right and even the Everton dry run and what will eventually come out in the wash will confirm your opinion.The government is working towards real time reporting in Business taxation as we speak.

I was involved in a organisation that was engaged for regulators in 2012.The only true advice I got was from my own Accountant.'Regulation is always too late'.The Everton dry run would seem to confirm that this is still true when it seems that ' Clubs are unwilling or in some cases unable to adhere to the present rules,'

I hundred percent agree with you.

You are right and even the Everton dry run and what will eventually come out in the wash will confirm your opinion.The government is working towards real time reporting in Business taxation as we speak.

I was involved in a organisation that was engaged for regulators in 2012.The only true advice I got was from my own Accountant.'Regulation is always too late'.The Everton dry run would seem to confirm that this is still true when it seems that ' Clubs are unwilling or in some cases unable to adhere to the present rules,'

I hundred percent agree with you.

On another note I presume we've applied for an exceptional write off of sponsorship etc from USM. Reported Chelsea have 𧴰m aligned to this as it was caused by exceptional circumstances.

The Times also reported the other day that the cost of the stadium was part of the problem, they are wrong the costs of any infrastructure are not part of any calculation towards the finance and sustainability regulations. So the cost of the new stadium is irrelevant.

Pre-P&S / FFP owners were allowed to spend what they wanted and underwrite any losses incurred, think Abramovich, or Sir John Moores.

But these very rules prevent Moshiri from writing a cheque to cover the losses as would have happened previously.

The government probably wants to wind down the Russian aspect of PL capital without unduly impugning the new capital. Any direct action would likely kick up questions of how it got to this and the Tories are in power and would like to avoid that discussion obviously.

I'm going with that for the conspiratorial angle. I think ot is just some shitty roulette that put usin the crosshairs of the scope.

Damian Green MP (Committee Chairman) briefly mentioned during his introduction that the Premier League were investigating “regulatory problems” at Everton. Typically Manchester City was not mentioned. Job done; the Premier League has been seen to be doing something.

Interestingly, Kevin Miles (Football Supporters Association) strongly backed sanctions to be applied solely against miscreant owners instead of unfairly penalising supporters with points deductions.

Later, Rick Parry (Football League, but better known as the obnoxious former LFC CEO) desperately dodged the issue, not surprising as the FL has consistently applied points deductions, as recently as last week in the case of Wigan Athletic.

As it happens, I do not believe we are in danger of a points deduction, whatever the outcome of the Premier League's investigation.

There is no way a points deduction is the correct punishment if it wasn't done when the so-called Big 6 were involved in the huge crime of secretly forming a new competition. And to be frank, they should have been thrown out of the Premier League immediately.

If Kenwright or Moshiri have been involved in anything improper, they should carry the can.

It may have been intended to flush out bad ownership models and save the clubs from being their own worst enemy; however, it seems to have the unintended consequence of curtailing ambition and therefore competition.

Take any club outside of the elite mentioned above and there isn't a club with the ability or good fortune to constantly buy cheap and sell high, whilst maintaining a full assault on the coveted European berths.

Frankly, if a club doesn't make the Top 4 in its first couple of high-investment years, it'll be on the brink of breaking the P&S rules, unless it can get a fantastic sponsorship deal, or manages to sell a few players for a massive return on its initial investments.

Even if it manages to do all of that, it still has to be competitive on the salary front, and obviously the established elite can wave fistfuls of cash at any point to entice a star player to join them.

Everton tried to run before they could walk, they chased the dream but, via impatience and rank bad executive decisions, they have fallen well short of their initial objectives and now face more than a few years struggling to compete in the Premier League, with or without punishment. That's of course if we can manage to pick up enough points in the final 10 games to retain our current status.

I agree that Everton FC knew the rules and limitations before they were accused of financial breaches, and it should have done everything it could have in order to avoid being put on the naughty step.

But trying to make the necessary squad improvements whilst simultaneously trying to stay within the spending limits seems to have proven an insolvable conundrum for those in charge of the club.

I bet half of the league, depending on how far into the financial cycle they are, will be watching with some nervousness at the conclusions and decisions that the Independent Commission makes in the Everton case.

You are right, Everton tried to run before they could walk and didn't have the necessary kind of executive capable of taking the slub forward. It just ended up as Monte Carlo or bust.

If a person makes a statement, it is up to him to prove that it's true – not up to the person challenging it to prove that it's not true.

How can it possibly be different? If you can't verify that any statement you make is fact, or at least to a reasonable level to satisfy a reasonable person, then it isn't fact but unsubstantiated opinion stated as fact.

So, when it comes to verifying Jim's opinion, I have to do nothing, Jim has to prove it.

I'm quite sure you are aware that your last post is ludicrous. If you challenge what someone says,you put yourself in the position of having to support your challenge. If you do not, you kind of come across as a demented toddler who demands that his mum actually fucking proves that it is bedtime.

Why don't you come to Liverpool and take a nice quiet walk through the Mersey Tunnel round about 5:00pm?

I agree that the Premier League are managing appearances rather than practicing regulation.

The extension of what you say there is often played out horribly on the internet, where someone types out a detailed point, often a known, credible point, simply to be met with the arrogant Source?

Not good enough.

Not picking a fight here – just saying there are times when it is a valid approach for extending the discussion. If I can't do that, then I'm going straight for offending expletives.

Fold Martin.

intended consequence.

If you make a statement and can't show that it is correct, then the statement is false. I can't understand how that can be difficult to understand.

If you make a statement that you can't show to be true then you are by definition a liar. Opinion is not fact, Evertonian myth is not fact.

The information flow here will improve dramatically when it becomes fact-based.

You might; most don't. It's a tactic to belittle and discredit without effort or substance on the part of those challenging.

It can seek to imply that no-one's opinion or knowledge can stand alone without sanctioned back-up. (Also a beloved tactic of the paid shills along with peer reviewed and such.)

"If I can't do that, then I'm going straight for offending expletives."

If you do that, be sure to use a wide variety and to misspell a little – otherwise, you'll look like the NSA. :-)

And who decides what is known and credible? Credible isn't fact, fact is what happened – not what could have happened.

Why do you guys not stop hijacking this thread and stop defending the falsehood of opinion as fact?

Absolute rubbish, you either state fact or opinion; most don't know the difference and assume that they're the same. Peer review is a procedure and not a guarantee of fact.

Nobody on here should post opinion as fact unless they can support what they say with evidence. Kenwright lost Kings Dock. The most idiotic statement ever posted on a website.

That is pure nonsense, Martin.

On that basis, all journalism is lies as stories are published on the balance of probabilities, but without definitive evidence at the time of publication.

It's only rubbish if you want to simply play policeman of the threads and nothing more. There are times and situations for demanding hard facts, I'd agree.

In Jim's post @49, I see the phrases, 'My view', 'My guess' and 'I think'. Realistic enough, on a site that necessarily revolves around speculative discussion and opinion whilst also often raising facts too. Most here perceive all this pretty well.

The other unqualified points he makes are what I'd call widely accepted and believed by many. Perhaps you are attacking more broadly than the content of that post?

I'm fully aware of what constitutes peer review. In the context in which I discussed it, it's portrayed online as the final, factual, scientific arbiter and used as such, mostly to shut people down. You know this, I'm sure.

Was it Jim's dig at Bill's wallet that triggered you?

Yes, I appreciate that I can only guess that if this is true it means they are questioning how and which costs have been attributed to the infrastructure, ie, our accounting.

All will become clear, I'm sure.

Thanks. I would still like to know in what regard the board were not capable, and also the timing. Perhaps that is more influenced by what's going on right now.

Obviously, I'm late to this party, but it's obvious that you judge any chairman by his record. Kenwright hasn't got us relegated, but his time in charge has been one of decline.

Now there may be lots of good reasons for this, and he may have done a really good job despite that decline. But he's in charge and there's not much more to say on the matter.

He could have resigned in disgust at Koeman's spending. He could have walked away at any point. He didn't and therefore, for better or worse, fair or not, he will always be seen as part of that decline.

“Premier League chief executive Richard Masters has told MPs he cannot comment on whether his organisation is investigating who has control of Newcastle and if it is re-examining its approval of the club's Saudi takeover.”

“Newcastle's takeover by Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund (PIF) was approved after "legally binding assurances" the Saudi government would not have any control over the club.”

“However, in a US court case, documents published last month described the PIF as "a sovereign instrumentality of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia" and PIF Governor and Newcastle chairman Yasir Al-Rumayyan as "a sitting minister of the government" with "sovereign immunity".”

Between us, Chelsea being over FFP, Nottingham Forest about to release their accounts which aren't going to be good, Man City being charged, and now Newcastle's investment being possibly a little dodgy, things could get very interesting.

I presume the FA will want to make an example out of a club.

And this one highlighted to me by the font of knowledge that is Chris W:. A BBC report, but something going on? Speculation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65102462

You have something there.Thought the Board say they where surprised, they knew before anyone else the real situation.

The delays in Gordon contract negotiations against a background, known only by a few, of the need to sell him as well as Richarlison.The attempts at part deal to get a forward.The need of a investor that would introduce cash into the Club.Barret Baxendale and 26 new positions.The strategic review that missed the gaping hole in the finances.The large wage% of players, but also the high wage percentage of Directors and staff, the latter never addressed.MSP directors at Goodison and the Board not turning up, because of imminent,.Not The way to make a good impression. The informed Journalists, saying all was well with the Premier League in January.No more AGM's.The delay in the Final Accounts till the end of March, the legal deadline. and the Premier League getting them in March.Then out of the blue getting refered to a Independent commission, just as the Fans were about to catch their breathe.

You really wonder who is writing the script for these cowboys.

A stinkin bad week, PR, wise for Everton, and like every Evertonian, we have our views and care for Everton FC.

But what is the reality, “Status Quo”, of EFC, and the business management, of EFC, the last 40 years, plus?

What is the foundation, of these EPL, “allegations, “against Everton, and what code, statute laws, are the EPL, considering invoking, against Everton, if scenario, X, is proven?

Unless I've missed it, these are so far, allegations, which don't, appear to be valid?

Speculation, kills, but it's concerning, in view of what has or hasn't gone on, or should have gone on, by the Board, following protocol and EPL policy,, the last 35 years.

To beat Spurs, on next Monday night.

UTFTs!

The FA haven't even got started yet, it's just the Premier League so far, but I doubt the FA will bother with us as we haven't won one of their pots in years. Unless maybe they have rules that can exclude us from their competitions if found guilty by the PL.

The FA would more likely be interested in City as they may have the power to strip them of their pots.

Tell that to The Pope (who is infallible!) And any other religious leader that says that god exists.

And #137 "Why do you guys not stop hijacking this thread". It's YOU that's hijacked this thread with your nonsense posts!

Moshiri's pullover interview which was a attempt to pullover one on the fans, looks now like a complete and utter sham now. He really needs to address the failings of not having things' under control and doing something about them' as he continually suggested throughout it.

Has he still got confidence in the Board and Executives of Everton?

When in enough enough after failure after failure,which is now a continual spiral downwards.Really the aggregate losses is a indicator of abysmal performance to some extent at all levels in the Club..

A massive two fingers up to the Evertonians, who have now had enough of these inept charlatans, and a massive two fingers up to the owner Farhad Moshiri, who allegedly had outside investors coming to the game on that day.

The player has finally fluffed his lines and totally misread the situation, and although he's no longer welcome at Goodison, at least he can still go to the away games, whilst putting on his sad face.

These phonies have traded off the People's club for years, but still won't let others sit in their empty seats🤮

He has been found out and now has nowhere left to go. Blaming Us fans on the day of a peaceful protest and claiming Lil' Miss Dynamite was put on a headlock was a step too far. Yes he basically just gave us a two finger salute

Mind you it seems there are some who are still fooled but that may just be another myth

The entire board of the Serie A club, including president Andrea Agnelli and vice-president Pavel Nedved, resigned in November as a police investigation into the club's transfer activity continued.

Juventus were subsequently docked 15 points by the FIGC in January. The Serie A club were accused of fixing their balance sheets by artificial gains from club transfers.
Yes I know we are in the UK we aren't as powerful as Juventus but If they can throw the book and some of the library at
them to make an example what will they do to us?

The people in charge of most top clubs are used to getting their own way by hook or by crook, so breaking the rules in some way, won't be that uncommon imo.

Madrid and Barcelona, have both had unprecedented debts, but they seem to just be able to carry on regardless, or is it because FFP, has been set up to help the elite get through almost anything?

It seems we are being investigated by the premier league for something which they have already cleared us of, and according to law, you cannot be charged for the same crime twice. So if the premier league want to start any investigation into the Dele Alli transfer, then I suggest they look at the Spurs accounts and see what that all brings out in the wash.

Tottenham Hotspur……….a small time shithouse club. Big club my arse!!

It's subject to very opaque Premier League mandates, maybe being scrutinised by very opaque Tory government mandates, into very opaque Everton accountability, as has been the way under the Moshiri/Kenwright destruction of our club for years, and several more now to come whilst they're still there.

I was told yesterday by someone who knows the Everton hierarchy that the issue relates to the terms of ONE transfer deal that season. The issue is how that deal was accounted for that year.

He didn't share which deal that was, but it is possible you are right on highlighting the Dele deal and how that was reported by Spurs and ourselves.

I think the issue Paul is the what we reported in the deal to the PL does not align with how the transfer Is treated for accounting purposes by one of the clubs.

That is if the Dele Alli deal is the one under scrutiny.

Paul # 185, you say it's not true about Dele Alli, and yet again you state something that is “Fact”, so how do you know it's not true, where's your evidence to suggest it's not true? I'm not saying what I've heard to be true, but it does make sense when you think about it.

Don # 183, of course, you are right that you can be charged for the same offence twice, providing new evidence comes to light that was missed first time round. If this Fabio Paratici has entered £40M into the spurs accounts as received in full, and I know that clubs are allowed to do that in terms of financing, then he's wrong to have done it because at the moment we haven't paid Spurs a single penny for Alli, and highly unlikely too.

Anyway, it's me last day on the Costa Del Sol, before flying home tomorrow, and prepare for the game on Monday night against……..er…….Oh yeah, Spurs. A small time club!!

The Dele Alli deal is also a very odd deal which looks like a cross between a free transfer and a loan with requirement to buy.

If this isn't about any transfer deal, what is it?

Everton acquire Dele Alli on an initial free transfer with a £40 million fee to be triggered once he reaches a certain number of games played. He doesn't reach the required number of games and Everton accordingly don't reflect the £40 million in the accounts.

The Premier League, however, take the view that as the £40 million threshold could have been triggered during the 20/21 financial year then the £40 million should have been reflected in the accounts for 20/21.

Amid all the speculation of which transfer they are looking at, could it just be an outgoing transfer that they are investigating? My brain works overtime and goes off on tangents regarding Everton, but it goes like this. What if the £7.2m fee received from Al Rayyan for Rodriguez is false. An Usmanov/Moshiri ghost company pays an Al Rayyan ghost third party /company £7.2m. Then they use the money to buy James, our P&S situation is then massaged.

Sorry about speculating a step too far, but it's an angle of rule avoidance I've often thought maybe be exploited by ruthless and desperate accountants.

But tax officials are investigating when half the agents fee is paid by the club it for some strange reason incurs no tax payments by the agent. Apparently this first came to light in 2021 and has been going on ever since.

Everton say they are “entirely confident” of their compliance and plan to “robustly defend” their position in front of the commission. But this is uncharted territory and the outcome is far from certain. Unlike with City, the Premier League are yet to explain why they believe the club may have fallen foul of their regulations.

Despite speculation to the contrary, the complaint is not thought to centre on the deal to sign Dele Alli from Tottenham.

Up to now, Everton have dealt with league officials, adopting a transparent, open-book policy throughout — including transfer dealings. This had been expected to aid their cause — it did for the last FFP cycle when the Premier League approved their COVID-19 losses — but an independent commission may see things differently. It is now a different ball game entirely.

As Everton are just the second side after City to be referred to an independent commission, there is no precedent to draw on. But initial indications are that a lengthy process should be expected. Both sides will present to the commission and have the right to appeal. If Everton are found to have breached the regulations, potential sanctions include transfer restrictions, a points deduction or possible expulsion from the league. This referral, which came as a shock internally, represents the kind of existential threat mentioned by Moshiri in January.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/legendary-superstar-everton-tried-sign-17072229

“Everton are the most unpopular team in England because they play without enjoyment … once their opponents are in possession they mark and tackle harder than any other team we have seen. Their stop-at-all-cost policy leads them into such shabbiness – and worse – as to alienate them from the sympathy of all but half the population of Liverpool.”

Spurs……a big club — my arse!

Manchester United: Premier League club owe almost ٟbn, reveal new figures