The Ups and Downs of the Original Twelve — Part III

Thanks for part 3, John.

Once again fascinating stuff. I was going to point out that PNE were also in the 1964 Cup Final but then remembered that you're using the The Caxton Publishing Company Ltd, 1960 information.

One thing I would add, though, is that because the accommodation at Priory Road wasn't ready for the start of the 1883-1884 season, Everton played their opening fixture(s) at the home of Stanley FC at Walton Stiles, in City Road.
This was on the right hand side of City Road (with Goodison behind you) and was somewhere near the railway line. It was probably after the railway because this piece of land had never been built on and until about the 1990s was a Jobcentre car park which was also used on matchdays. I don't know what's on there now.

Great reading Thanks John.

Another interesting continuation from previous and appreciated. Even more appreciated was you saying thank you to my comments last week and glad you bring educated EFC history to younger people. You missed the mention when I stated I was - just turned - 67. Best wishes.

Thanks John. I'm enjoying reading this series.

A tournament should be arranged next summer as it will be 125 years of football, if you take away the years lost to the 2 World Wars. I'm sure the original 12 would be proud to take part.

Good luck with your op, John, and thanks again for the series.

Before I read John Mc's article, I agree with what Jack says, but I think that Everton should arrange the tournament themselves and invite the twelve founder members to play at Bramley-Moore Dock. What a way this would be to open our new stadium, whilst putting a massive two fingers up to the people who think football only began in this country with the introduction of the Premier League.

I saw this article last night, John, and although it's been put at the bottom of the page once again, these are the only article's that I won't really read until I've got time to take things in and digest them.

Did Stanley FC play on the Mere Green pitch, Bill?

A great read again, John.

I looked into it and I always thought Notts County were the oldest professional club in English Football. Apparently Crystal Palace beat them to that status by one year. Can any of the more educated confirm or deny?

The article made me think of Bramley-Moore Dock and naming conventions.
Forget ex-players and Bill Kenwright.

Yes, we will no doubt have a sponsor that will name the stadium. But why not name stands after our heritage rather than former players and managers?

The Goodison stand (take the name with us). The St Domingo's stand. I'll have to think of two more. Any suggestions?

Danny, many clubs, including us, name stands after former players or managers, but these names are only from a very small era of any club's history.

So, as you say, naming stands after our heritage seems a logical idea, and I've come up with St Luke's stand (after the church next to Goodison), and also The Prince Rupert stand, after the lock-up on Everton Brow and which now sits proudly on our club badge. Obviously, these names might not mean much to anyone other than Everton fans, but as the saying goes…….

Evertonians are born not manufactured.
We do not choose, we are chosen.
Those that understand need no explanation.
Those that don't understand, don't matter.

1857 - Sheffield FC, but only play lower league football now.

1861 - Crystal Palace.

1862 - Notts County.

1863 - Stoke City.

Good shout's from Danny & Rob. We could do with people like these two, to start a new Everton fan group!!

Tony # 5

No, Stanley had their own ground, Walton Stiles, further down City Road.

I think Mere Green was just a patch of open ground rather than a football pitch.

Fascinating stuff, John.

When you look at the founding of some of these clubs, eg, Villa from the Aston Villa chapel team, and Everton from St Domingo's Church team, it's interesting to speculate on why some became big clubs and others didn't. A particular group of lads maybe, or an organising committee with a bit more oomph?

A little later, in the early 1900s, my Grandfather played for St Saviour's Everton for years, just as a Church team. St Saviours Church was founded in 1866 and St Domingo's in 1871; same area, one became a giant in English football the other stayed a church team.

Incidentally, St Saviours lads all joined up under the Liverpool Pals recruitment campaign in WW1, my Grandfather included, I believe not many came back. Fortunately for our family, he did.

Thanks, Bill.

I was always under the impression that Everton played a few games on Mere Green, but maybe I've been getting mixed up with Walton Stiles.

I think it is worth mentioning that Notts County had three players who played for them who had scored just on a thousand league goals between them': Tommy Lawton, Hughie Gallagher and Dixie Dean.

Tony #11

We've played quite a few games at Mere Green. Goodison Park is built on it!

Thanks Bill!

Sir John,

"If ya know yer 'istory" and you certainly do.

A great read once again. I don't have the historical knowledge of you old timers (LOL, I'm 72) but it's so enjoyable to see the development of the game and the foundations that were laid to facilitate it.

A tournament at BMD featuring the founding League clubs sounds interesting, although only 11 of them still exist, of course. However, I suspect that not all would choose to take part, sadly.

Reading through, the longevity of Everton is absolutely fantastic, but it's deeply saddening to now have a football club that doesn't really compete to try and win honours, because this is something we built our reputation on.

I'm glad that Notts County, have just made it back into the league, because I used to go to meadow lane quite often when I lived in Nottingham.

Preston winning the cup without conceding a goal in the competition is something I always look at when Everton start playing in the FA Cup, because the twice we have won the competition in my lifetime, we only conceded once in both these years, and one of those was a dodgy Juergen Klinnsman penalty, at Elland Rd, on one of most glorious days of the last thirty years.

I'm enjoying these articles John, especially after learning that Goodison is built on mere green!

John Sr., thanks for your thoughtful effort to share these with us before your operation. The finger delivers. Keep in good spirit as I'm confident you will have a comfortable recovery.

Hi Bill [1, 9. 13.] I have a few books on Everton and two in particular 'The history of the Everton Football Club' published in 1929, and the other, 'Football on Merseyside' published in 1960, and neither mention anything of Everton playing at Walton Stiles, or Mere Green. It tells of a General Meeting where George Mahon' was enthusiastically applauded, when he referred to a new ground a raucous voice exclaimed "Yer' can't find one" Mr Mahon retorted, "Iv'e got one in my pocket" for he had an option on the Goodison Road ground, which I believe to be Mere Green.

Hi Howard [10] I believe that quite a few clubs start from a church association, I think I've already mentioned a couple, but one that springs to mind is Southampton hence their nickname of "Saints"

Hi Jay [15] I fear that you flatter me, it's true that I know a little bit about football, but even for my so called knowledge, I have to resort quite often to reach out for the written word.

I

Hi Dale [18] thank you for your kind words, the first stage wasn't pleasant, and if I had known what it entailed, I would probably have refused it. But now I have to go through it all again but I'm not looking forward to it.

John, I don't know if you've ever come across "A History of Football" by Morris Marples, published in 1954. It's a bit dry, but quite fascinating if you can stick with it - probably one to read in small doses!

Hi Dennis [21] I have "one or two" football books but I've never come across the one you referred to. I also have a couple of books relating to other sports.

Hi Danny [ 6] I almost overlooked you, I'm afraid that you have got your wires crossed, Crystal Palace F.C were formed in 1905. The 'Crystal Palace' was built in 1851 for an Empire Exhibition, fast forward a century, and I was in the boys pen at Goodison watching England vs Portugal, as part of the celebration.

John, like Tony, I think these are articles to be enjoyed with a bit of time. So, raining outside, bad back..cup of tea, fig roll and a very enjoyable read.
I know it's hard going for you but I hope that the enjoyment folk get from reading your work motivates you to battle on

Many thanks and good luck.

Rob, you complete the stand naming with Prince Rupert's and St Luke's. Alongside Goodison and St Domingo's. If I'm making the decision, that does it for me.

It might not mean a lot to many. But it will to us. We know and understand. It doesn't have to be explained to us.

John Senior, good callout, although Crystal Palace's origins can be traced back to 1861. It's similar to saying Everton has only been an entity since 1879 having changed our name from St Domingo's, formed in 1878.

Manchester United claim they were formed in 1878 as we do. But that was as Newton Heath. They changed their name to Manchester United in 1902.

Outstanding read again, John.

A tonic for this preseason, and the game v Wigan tomorrow.

Good perspective and the remake of an old Everton Salmon Pink kit, for me is a plus for tomorrow's game and the new season.

UTFTs!

John #19,

Hi John, I didn't say Everton played at Mere Green which, as far as I'm aware, was just a spare patch of land where Goodison is now, but they did play at Walton Stiles.

The General Meeting where George Mahon said, "I've got one in my pocket", was said in 1892, when Everton had been at Anfield since 1884.

Everton left Stanley Park for a ground in Priory Road in 1883 but as the ground wasn't ready in time for the opening match, or matches, of the season they had to play at Walton Stiles. They only stayed at Priory Road for one season before moving to Anfield.

Source: Everton, 100 Seasons at the Top: Virgin Blues — Dr David France and David Prentice (Published 2003)

I always thought Mere Green was the other side of Gwladys Street, Bill, but this must have been where the Walton Stiles pitch was. I'm not sure if it was on the land which now has what I'd term a new housing estate (although the houses are probably over 35 years old) or if it's a bit further down City Road, by where the Everton Supporters Club used to be?

I just Googled it and got a story about Isaac Roberts, and this had a little map which suggests there was room for two football pitches in this area. We also played on the exact part of Stanley Park that Liverpool were going to build on, but the bastards have already taken enough of our luck and it's about time we went and made some more luck for ourselves.

Whenever I look out to sea, it usually calms me and makes my mind drift into deeper thoughts so I'm going to go for a walk by the River Mersey and hope of better times for Everton, a club that has lost its way because it's been owned by a two-pence charlatan who still won't leave because he's deluded. (I kept that last sentence nice because of you, John Mc!)

Tony;

Goodison Park was built on what was known as Mere Green. I think it was already surrounded by the terraced houses which are still there now.

In the 1980s, a couple of streets backing onto the houses in Gwladys Street were demolished. At the time, it was a really handy place to park on! Mike England once parked next to me on there!

David France's book has a map which shows Walton Stiles as being much further down City Road. I reckon it must have been just before or just after the railway lines.

The last few seasons have been horrendous but it's the hope which keeps you going. I'm off to Wigan at lunchtime and hoping some of the younger players can step up, especially Tom Cannon.

On the little map I looked at, it seems like there was two football pitches between Luxmore Road and Gwladys Street, Bill.

I've got very little hope, Bill. Barry Rathbone has written a piece on another thread asking if Everton can be the surprise package, but unless we can go and win one of the cups, I won't really be interested – unless the jinx who I can't stop talking about finally leaves us for alone for good.

Hi Danny [6] I've just looked up the history of Crystal Palace, and it reads, "Crystal Palace has been an honoured name in association for nearly a century. Prior to the formation of the present cub, more than one carried the name the "First" being in existence in 1863 and a founder member of the Football Association.

It played at the Palace, in blue and white, with blue serge Knickerbockers, and took part in the Cup from its beginning to 1876, being one of the original entrants.

The Football Association used the Crystal Palace ground for its Cup Finals from 1895 until the first world war. It was from this fact that the idea of having a club definitely connected with the place arose.

In 1904 the business company owning the ground proposed to form a team of professionals and enter League Football, but this was not acceptable to the F. A., so in 1905 a separate company was launched, became the tenants of the ground and entered a team in the in the Southern League as Crystal Palace.

John, thank you for reminding me of who we are and why we should be so proud to be one of the 12.

I agree too that there should be some effort to mark both its reference and our new home at Bramley-Moore Dock. Even if it were made up of an Everton team v a compilation squad of players from each of the other clubs, such an event should be marked.

Ironic too that our new home should be literally on the banks of the royal blue Mersey. I can't help but be reminded by the song I used to sing as a young supporter: "And we'll hang the kopites one by one, on the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey" — so politically incorrect and never literally… but still makes me smile!

Interestingly, the 12 founder members were all from midland or northern clubs, none from London or the south, with the league conception being attributed to Aston Villa director William McGregor.

Few of the founder members, only 4 I think, are currently in the Premier League, showing that history alone is no guarantee of success or even survival, but in Everton there is perhaps the best supported club in the land despite the brushes with relegation or poor ownership.

One tends to think that our success and standing have in some way also been the result of the determination and passion of the fanbase. We haven't evaporated away because of fallow times and poor leadership; indeed, if anything, it has triggered a fight reflex in us, such is the passion.

The game has changed in a few short decades, the fitness, the rules, the money, the global appeal. We have been slow to embrace the change or take advantage of the Premier League as others have done for a myriad of reasons often discussed on these pages, but in the new Everton Stadium at Bramley Moore Dock, we have the foundation of success in years to come. One small step for man, one giant leap for Everton FC.

Thanks, John, God willing there will be a few raised glasses, tears and pride in abundance when we have pride of place in the city once more.

Hi Christine [31], thanks for your kind words.

I agree with you when you say that there should be some sort of celebration, featuring The Twelve, despite the fact that Accrington dropped out of the League in 1893; however, Accrington Stanley could take their place.

I recently submitted a post to you, stating that a get-together was held at the Harlech Castle on County Road, it was outside and it was actually "On County Road".

It was on my mind to propose a toast to 'Absent Friends' but it was literately impossible; however, I did think of some friends and relatives, who were all keen Everonians, and I also thought of your Uncle Tommy.

John, my apologies I somehow missed that, thank you for thinking of me and my Uncle Tommy, I hope we can catch up in The Harlech at some point soon to do it in style!
Heritage is a great thing, a foundation to be built on but never replaced. New chapters are to be written in the book of Everton FC.. we have a few more pages to add yet! Thank you John, take care!

Hi again Christine, [33] I would be pleased to meet you anywhere, but I'm hanging on for the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock, and it would be excellent to meet there.

If my memory is correct I recall that you wrote that you lived in Virgil Street. I don't know how long the street was, but I worked with a lad named 'Alan Neal' who I think also lived in Virgil Street, so there may be a chance that you knew him.

Hi John, gosh that's going back a bit, lived with my Nan at 39 Virgil street in the early 60s before we went " over the water" for a few years, then back to Pownall square in town when mum and dad had the pub. I am afraid the Neal's do not jog my failing memory sorry, mind you it was a long street with flats either side before the new tunnel came along!
Yes a few drinks to celebrate BMD would be in order, I look forward to them !
,

Great article, John.

I have also had a look at the history of Crystal Palace. Seems like the original amateur club disappeared in 1875 and the current club only emerged in the early 1900s. They have never won a major trophy.

Hi David [36],

According to my reference book, there were 'more than one' Crystal Palace at that time, but that could be any amount. Their first season in the Football League, in 1920-21, saw them win the newly formed Third Division South, only to drop down to that Division in 1924-25.

This article from the Everton Heritage Society shows Walton Stiles sports pitches on the right-hand side of City Road, before the railway:

In Search of Priory Road 1883-84

Paul,

Those two sports pitches is where my old house, street and neighbourhood were subsequently built, a few years later, running up from City Road, behind the old Coliseum Picture House.

John, thanks again for your painstaking input. I enjoy pretty much everything you write.

BUT, what a fabulous idea by Tony and Rob on naming our four new stands at BMD!

Brilliant, lads! Well done.