The Saudi League

Brian, the problem is, if Uefa, Fifa or any of the other governing bodies prevent them joining their competitions, they will simply carry on buying talent until the authorities give in, or more likely, they will give the major European clubs a massive economic incentive to abandon Uefa and form a super league.

The influence of Middle Eastern sponsorship is already rife at the top of the game, they'll want more than a monetary return on that investment.

Really good point to highlight the threat of Saudi league to the Premier League. I can honestly see Uefa inviting them in at some stage, albeit a level playing field might be the price.

Really bizarre to use grassroots as argument for why we're hollier than them. Truth is we're not, and it ain't been level here since owners got banned from investing to protect the Rich 6. We're just as corrupt.

Barry and Gary,

Teams from Saudi Arabia could be at the driving seat of a new Super League, and want to recruit Barcelona and Juventus into their plan.

President of the Catalan club, Joan Laporta, was still talking up the idea earlier this year, claiming that it would be up and running without English clubs by 2025.

Now it seems that those clubs from the Premier League could even be replaced by teams from Saudi Arabia, who are at the forefront of bringing the idea back.

According to Tuttosport, the Saudis want to set up a league and believe they can convince Barcelona and the Old Lady to join them.

The report also claims that UEFA are 'trembling' at the idea, no doubt with the obvious power and money that the PIF who own the Saudi Pro League's four biggest clubs currently wield.

Barcelona are in need of a boost in cash considering their well known financial problems over the past few years, which have hindered their transfer power.

They are also looking into alternatives to the Champions League considering the threat of being banned from Uefa competitions during the ongoing Negreira case.

The Old Lady are also facing their own potential ban from Uefa competitions, after having 10 points deducted from them by Serie A in the campaign that's just finished.

Possibly the end of football as we know it. Fear or embrace it? – that is the question.

Brian when you say... "I am struggling to see how the Saudi league becomes successful as it doesn't at present have access to contest the biggest prizes in club football. They can't compete for the Champions League or the South American equivalent"... you're forgetting the 'Golden Rule':

'Those who have the gold make the rules' – and I will add a cynical 'Yet!'

As we've seen, it didn't take the LIV Golf mob that long to get a foot in the door, they basically just threw lumps of gold at it until it caved in... it didn't take the PGA or whoever that long to cave either and they're not poor.

We've had Israeli teams in Uefa comps and Australia, for fuck's sake, in the Eurovision (finished 2nd).

So never say never.

Edit; Re grass roots development - I'm not seeing too much in the way of PL funded improvements yet, maybe it's too early or I'm looking in the wrong place.

Nice effort, Brian. I guess I just can't dedicate much attention to Saudi enterprises due to well-documented offences. I watch football in part to elude all things political for a few hours. The Saudi model is so blatantly an authoritarian PR initiative that I have no problem blotting it out.

Bottom line: who cares? They are probably hitting the MLS more than any other league. Might even be taking some upward wage pressure out of the Premier League by skimming off the top earners that were benchmarks for other contracts. And at any point where they are truly competitive, their truly despicable foundation will have me watching other games.

“We are just as corrupt” is preposterous. Not looking for an argument just saying my fair share.

Barry @ 1;

Euro Super League or Saudi Super League; the rs and the others probably won't care.

Part of me says, quicker the better and gtf.

Fifa only care about money in their individual bank accounts (as opposed to going to grassroots) so I can't see Infantino intervening – if anything, he will support it as part of his ongoing drive for world club football to undermine Uefa.

If the Saudis are smart, they'll try and get involved more with the weakest greediest links in Uefa: Barce, Real and Juve the last members of the so-called ESL. Try and hijack the world club cup as some annual event, roping in a few American teams, some impoverished Brazilian teams, and some token teams from elsewhere.

But the big issue long term is that their league is in Saudi. At best, a desert… at worst, a morally bankrupt dictatorship. Will players and fans really want to go there for more than a swansong? Would they really want to live and work there for the duration of a 15-year career? I doubt it.

Anyone with a scintilla of faith in the probity or integrity of professional football organisations and/or almost all professional footballers, managers, agents, scouts etc etc these days must presumably also have deep faith in the myth that the Moon is made of green cheese.

In the UK, the integrity and probity of professional football has been a basket case for decades – ever since the inception of the Premier League, in fact.

If you can't easily see that, you need an urgent sight exam from Specsavers or the like.

Brian, there is grassroots football in Saudi clubs and other Middle East nations.

A big question is, “who will pay to watch it?”

In this country, the answer is nobody. No-one is remotely interested, even if Harry Kane or Jordan Henderson are plying their trade there. No-one gives a monkey's.

It leads me to think they are going for the Asian TV markets, and see potential from China etc in the future.

I'm not interested in the Saudi League or, for that matter, even the European Champions League. I don't even watch any foreign football unless it is the Euros or World Cup. If Everton qualify, then I will watch.

We have our Premier League which has out-spent every other League in the World. We can't complain if someone else does it.

The elephant in the room is the ridiculous amount of money going to players and managers. It's simply killing football. Every million pounds spent on a player's wages is a million that will not be going on grassroots, infrastructure, facilities and paying the minions a decent wage for their services, cleaners, bar staff etc.

I would love the Saudis to form a new Super League so that Liverpool, Madrid, Barca etc all slide off into an even deeper cesspool.

I guess we'll have to see how this pans out.

Another attempt like the late 70s project in the US? The more recent Chinese League?

Here's a thought that came into my head. I wonder if some of the "big" clubs, would put the B team or development squads into such a league?

Saudi in European competition? Not beyond the realms of possibility. We already have Israel, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan as members. The latter is in central Asia, closer to Kabul than Geneva (Nyon). None are on the continent of Europe and Russia could technically draw players closer to Japan than Berlin.

That European nation, Australia, competing in Eurovision.

Who knows? And the money will talk. Uefa is as corrupt as its Fifa masters.

Meanwhile, we play Sporting on Saturday and Fulham next week.

The Saudi league is a fascinating development, which could indeed turn out to be a short-term fad like the US in the 70s, but I really don't think it will be – it's more the next step towards societal change using industries like sport, video games, media, etc as a driver.

I've been travelling and working in the region for a few years and it's clear that there is sizeable change happening. Many of the Middle Eastern states are on a fast-track to modernise their entire society – away from reliance on fossil fuels (which does have a window that's closing) and also away from state-led industry/structure (in which everyone gets an allowance and most get work somehow from the government) and away from strict religious doctrine to more relaxed (to a point) 'western' values of individual freedom, expression and entrepreneurialism.

Dubai is obviously the leader on the latter point, the emirate is incredibly diverse in terms of the population and feels like many western cities – it's a top global holiday destination and a thriving international business hub. Dubai doesn't have meaningful oil resources like its neighbours, so it's a showcase of a different economy and this has not gone unnoticed to the likes of Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Oman, and most of all Saudi (who do not like to be upstaged by their noisy neighbours!).

I went to a concert in Riyadh called 'Soundstorm' – which was populated by international acts, insanely huge, had the biggest stage ever, and was filled with young people having fun which (booze aside – Saudi is still 'currently' a zero alcohol) zone. They are investing $38B into video games and esports (buying the world's biggest esports companies so far and investing in the likes of Activision, Embracer and Scopely) and also launched an 'open' international film festival (when only years ago you could barely watch a movie here) – heck they even have (well have bought) 'Winter Wonderland'!

On the sports front, as others have mentioned, there's already been sizeable moves into golf, tennis and football is of course the biggest game on earth. To be fair, football interest in the region is hardly new - the World Cup hosting, sponsorship, investment and acquisition of clubs in the Premier League and elsewhere (Man City and PSG but also Emirates Airlines at Arsenal, etc).

The money being spent seems madness to us, but in the scheme of things (compared to oil revenues – which only increased with the Ukraine war) this is still small change. If you want a sense of the sort of scale of investments being made right now, look at Neom and the Line – a whole new city/region being built out of nothing with its own laws and futuristic design (the build cost alone will surely be trillions). They want to be world-leaders and they need to attract talent to the region; having 'familiar' sports leagues is just one part of that project.

And the project is working, obviously – they've basically taken over golf, have credible ATP tour Tennis events (that I would not be surprised to see appear as a 'slam' at some point) and football will go the same way. The attraction for older players is obvious, if you're coming to your last contract, then you're looking in part for a payday and the pay is not going to get better than this (also largely tax free!). As more players move, then any stigma is also removed and the league becomes genuinely competitive.

It's not like we can even blame the Saudis, they are just playing western leagues at our own game. European football leagues have played silly buggers raising player salaries to essentially unsustainable levels for successive decades (what other business has a payroll and 'talent' cost that represents 70-120% of their income?).

First it was the Italians in the '90s pulling all the talent (including Gazza) in with inflated prices, then Barcelona and Real Madrid in La Liga with mysteriously bottomless funds, and then of course the all-conquering Premier League itself, which blew everyone else out of the water in terms of available salaries to attract the best talent in what I believe is (and will remain for some time) the most exciting, competitive league in the world.

Then the combined European competition, the Champions League (and its sister trophies) arrived on the scene showering even more money on the elite clubs and players.
Clearly money has always talked loudest, the European Super League showed that in spades with many leading clubs (including Premier League ones) seemingly prepared to ditch their domestic leagues (and Uefa) for the promise of more moolah.

So it's hard to be too sanctimonious when someone with even deeper pockets arrives on the scene and is hoovering up genuine experienced talent that will draw the eye (Mendy, Mane, Mahrez and of course Ronaldo and Benzema), along with some younger players too.

Looking ahead, I think this is only going to continue and grow. The Saudis won't hoover up all the players (they do also want homegrown talent to come through) but they are well and truly here as a part of world football and more players will go there.

In the short-term it may be helpful to Premier League and European clubs, a place to sell on talent in order to bring in revenue to reinvest in the next wave of talent . For the time being, the younger stars will still prefer more familiar European destinations closer to home – but there will also be competition, especially when (and I think this is inevitable) the Saudi league winners get into the Champions League 2-3 years down the road.

Either that or at least some Asia-based abstraction created by Fifa or Uefa – don't think those organisations aren't also watching this progress through dollar-tinted glasses! And that's before we consider whether Dubai, Qatar etc also try the same idea!

What does this mean for Everton? Absolutely no idea!
Maybe we'll get to offload the likes of Gomes and Gray for more than we could've hoped. Ultimately it'll mean another wave of 'superclubs' competing in the football world (and thus pushing us down), but it also means the growth of football as a whole and spread into new markets which should create new opportunities.

As for world football organisations? Well, the Premier League will be fine I think, and will remain at the top of the pyramid for quality, excitement and viewing rights for many years to come. They will also find some smart crossover opportunities, it's a smart, well-run business organisation (despite some dysfunctional clubs in the mix) with a very passionate international fanbase – no doubt we'll see a 'Summer Series' (or Winter Series?) in the Middle East soon, as in the US this pre-season.

The Bundesliga will also be fine, their setup is all about domestic appeal and tight fan integration. However, I do feel Serie A and La Liga may feel the pressure a little more, they aren't quite so well marshalled as organisations (it's about a few top clubs rather than the league) and finances are even more strained already than in UK – if global TV companies and sponsors start thinking the wealthy Saudi market is more interesting than Spain, that could hit incomes.

Anyway, sorry that one got away from me a bit and ended up a bit rambling! TLDR version – for my money, the Saudi league means business and it will be an increasing factor in world football over the next decade.

Despite my cynicism and traditional view on football, I do remain sceptical about what the Saudis are trying to do and can achieve.

That said, and looking outside of football, look at what they are doing with the development with NEOM, for those interested.

Link

I do still find it ironic that we are outraged (justifiably) about Russians yet will accept Saudis…

But there is a political reason behind both scenarios.

It's the greedy modern world, and in the greedy modern world there is only one true religion for most. It all makes perfect sense – expressed in dollars and cents – pounds, shillings and pence?

I think the academy system in this country has partly destroyed grassroots football, Brian, because the clubs are all terrified of missing out on the next great player – even though that kid will only be eight years of age when they initially sign him.

You could argue it's working, because this long-term plan has started to see England doing a lot better at international level, but my own belief is that it's destroying a lot more young players with talent than it's helping because it's all about finding players who might be worth a lot of money one day.

At the moment it's an expensive experiment. For me, they can buy Mbappe and Haaland etc so far as I'm concerned and I wouldn't be interested in watching.

The ultimate aim though must be to acquire the best players so people watch it as they do the Champions League.

But even then, Saudi clubs have to overcome fans' deep rooted emotional connection to existing European clubs.

And even with a collection of stars, it's going to be really hard to get the quality consistently good.

The option might be to franchise out the names of Barca, Bayern, PSG etc so that the Saudi League becomes a formalised Super League – maybe with representatives from other continents. That might work.

That would relegate Everton to a domestic league only club. It might however improve our standing in our own domestic league though – with the likes of Man Utd and Liverpool using their best players for the Saudi league.

Brilliant post, Chris @ 14. Sums it up perfectly.

Money talks and always will. Doesn't matter what we think should happen, the sportswashing, for want of a better word will continue and probably increase. The more money that gets thrown at principles and morals, the easier it is to gradually break down that resolve.

Chris, you've used the example of Dubai perfectly, not my cup of tea at all, too false… but millions love it and flock there to work, live and holiday. The so-called "desert" is changing.

Our main problem in the future could be dwindling sponsorship and revenues. Try getting kids to watch Everton in the new English League – whatever it will be called. When they can watch the all-new wall-to-wall shiny product from the Middle Eastern leagues, with all the best players and teams relocated there.

Tony @ 11, don't be too sure.

We've got people were I work who all picked their 1st, 2nd and 3rd favourite teams from Sky Sports FC who would watch the test card if they brought it back with Cristiano Ronaldo's face on it.

Tony,

For a player to be worth a lot of money, they actually have to be good... unless they are part of the Everton recruitment programme, that is!

This 'holier-than-thou' disdain for money and what it has done to sport... I know the bible quote but that's just too simplistic. The more realistic aphorism is "Money makes the world go round".

You could make the argument that (as Colm Kavanagh would say) "T'was ever thus" – right back to the earliest days of association football and the arguments, fines, and bans over clubs paying players and the inevitable transition to professional football.

Somebody posted recently that money has destroyed football. Yes, maybe it's not the football you watched as a kid from the Bullens Road Paddock. But 'destroyed'? I don't think so. Or you wouldn't still be here, bitching and moaning about the relentless pace of change that you can't keep up with.

Chris @14, that is one of the most educational posts I've ever read on this website, mate.

For a kid to sign for an academy team at eight years of age, then they must be good for their age, Michael. I just wish that clubs couldn't sign a child until he becomes a teenager.

Chris@14, great post.

Chris @14 Thanks that was an eye-opener.

Before Sky's riches, my team was one of the country's top teams, many teams if they got their act together, could win the top division. Now it's down to money and global income and my team compete for nothing and possibly never will.

Am I scared that all the top players from the clubs with money are going to play in a desert somewhere 1,000 miles away, weakening them with no loss to my team?

No! I don't want to see the world's top players battering my team week-in & week-out, I want to see my team challenge to win something, if that's limited to domestic silverware, fine.

It's more than I can hope for under the current system.

Good post, Chris @14.

I think the Saudi league is also here to stay. Can't compare it to the US in the '70s or China about 10-15 years ago. This is part of a much bigger project for them (like it or not) and they have deep pockets and neither Uefa nor Fifa can tell them what to do.

Unfortunately money talks and they have tons of it. We'll see more players go as, also like it or not, for a lot of players, playing football is just a job. If they can earn multiples more there, then they'll go.

With regards to Saudi teams in the Champions League, that'll get the cat amongst the pigeons and I'm sure many Euro teams will be against it (as presumably less places for Euro teams). However, Turkish and Israeli teams play in Euro comps (albeit different circumstances) so, if Uefa want it, it will happen… ie, if the Saudis pay enough, it'll happen.

Something like this was inevitable and the World Cup in Qatar and LIV Golf should have woken people up to the fact. The game for a while now has been about money and that part of the world currently has an almost limitless amount of it.

The club should try and get Gomes, Gbamin etc over there sharpish.

As in golf, football is awash with money. None of it benefits the people who pay at the gate. Clubs still squeeze us for every penny.

This Saudi league and the Premier League is the reason I find it hard to enjoy football anymore.

You could argue that the damage has already started. The biggest clubs making huge profits on players who would've been sold to teams further down the league to strengthen them. On top of that, there's a few clubs not selling to Premier League rivals as they're hoping that the Saudis come in with a megamoney offer.

With that said, the Premier League can only blame itself for this. We do this to nearly every other league in Europe, hoovering up their talent with the vast riches.

However, we are lucky to not be part of that problem considering we only usually go for Premier League "proven" recently. That was our scouts plan all along. We're actually saving football by going for Che Adams or Antonio and thus any Financial Fair Play charges should be removed. Cough.

Surely this would change if Everton stopped shining so dimly, Paul?

Will teams from Saudi Arabia be allowed to play in the Champions League? Who knows, but two major factors to consider before they are allowed in: travel and of course, the heat.

I've never been to Saudi, but Googling flight times, the average flight time can be anything between 6.5 hours and 9.5 hours. Then the heat… the World Cup was played in November and December because of the intense heat in the summer out there, yet even then, temperatures were high.

Yes, I know it was in Qatar, but temperatures must be pretty similar all over the Middle East. I've been to Dubai at various times of the year and it doesn't seem to relent. I was in fact there last December during the World Cup, and it was hot.

So, will European teams want long flights, and play in extreme heat? Of course they will, because no doubt there will be some sort of financial gain for them, other than the usual pot of gold dished out by Uefa.

One thing we can be sure of, though, is that there won't be many travelling supporters, not that the clubs care about that.

One final thing as well, it won't be long before we see clubs going to Saudi for pre-season games. They will make a fortune!!

Having been a teacher 14 years ago, someone gloatingly made the comment about the Middle East being in the dung once oil supplies were depleted and less useful to their economies.

Then someone pointed out that although they have nothing else to maintain their position in world fossil-based energy, it has all that free sunshine burning down everyday creating a huge potential in solar electricity and the money will keep rolling in!

Oh, and it also has a desolate desert waiting to be useful as solar farms!

Rob you're absolutely right about the pre-season games. Guarantee next year that the "Big 6" go there.

One thing I can see happening from this is another super league bid including the Saudi teams.

Trevor,

I'm no expert but I was recently told that solar panels don't work very well if it is too hot.

The breadth and knowledge of fellow Blues never ceases to amaze me; all the posts have all made interesting observations.

I would say thanks to Chris James for his brilliant post, and it's always good to hear from someone who has lived and worked in the region and understands that area far better than I ever will.

Many are right that money has always driven the different leagues around the world but they have been largely driven by wealthy individuals, but now it's nation states that are pouring money into sport. That just makes me feel uncomfortable and especially when a reprehensible country with appalling human rights issues enters the sporting field.

The point that I would disagree with Chris is where he says the Saudis have taken over golf. Because golf fans aren't interested in their 54-hole tournaments that are also team events, and they have realised that they had to do a deal with the PGA as their wealth wasn't changing the perception of golf fans.

I listened to a Saudi sports reporter the other day talking about the players that have initially gone to Saudi and he seemed to suggest that they were mainly Muslim players but they now are attracting non-Muslim players. He said they have only 4 main teams, so how that grows, as it will surely have to to have any merit, I don't know.

Also, reforming the defunct ESL seems an obvious vehicle for them to pursue.

I went to my first game at Goodison in October 1970. One of the things I remember was the bloke sitting next to me saying that "It's all about money these days."

This is the latest version of this. The bullying, ruthless Premier League now facing a richer, more powerful and ruthless opponent.

The hand-wringing will subside as soon as the Saudi money benefits people's own clubs. Or they will walk away from the game. Most won't.

I suspect a by-product of this growth of the game will be changes further down the food chain.

While some people will be happy to watch the superstars on TV, others will want to watch the real thing, meet their mates, have a pint, have a laugh, and will increasingly turn their attention to the relatively inexpensive charms of the Wrexhams and Marines of this world.

The only good thing about the vast amounts of money being given to foreign players and teams by Saudi owned clubs is that it's less money they can spend on bombing children in the Yemen.

Although they do have almost unlimited funds so it was a futile thought. :(

The one thing this should throw out of the window is FFP. Chelsea in particular having Saudi links in their ownership being able to get inflated prices for their flops and finished players to get them out of FFP stinks for me.

Imagine the uproar if a few years ago a Russian club affiliated with Usmanov came in and bought Klaassen, Sandro, Tosun, Vlasic etc for £30-£40 million each. We'd be hung – and this is even before the war.

Weren't we in trouble because Usmanov gave us an inflated price for the training ground naming rights or something along those lines? Yet Chelsea and Newcastle can sell their players to clubs that have direct links to their ownership for over-the-top prices and nothing happens?

Chris @14, really interesting post, a great read.

Peter @36 that's what I'm thinking – the knock-on effect will be felt at different levels, not just at the top.

I read an article recently which suggested that, as the sport has become more global, the younger fans are as invested in the superstar players as they are in the superstar teams. So, while they choose to support Real Madrid, or Man Utd, or Liverpool, or PSG, they have an equal if not greater interest in the likes of Mbappe or Messi or Haaland. So when a big name moves to a Saudi club, the fans go with him, adding a new club to the portfolio of clubs that they "support". Teams they will never see play live.

We on here are old school as fans, we support the team and, as soon as a player leaves, he's pretty much dead to us. As Peter suggests, fans like us won't be interested in the new Saudi football panto, so will stick to the grassroots.

But I think Everton will be part of that grassroots, because I can't see us competing in the superstar stratosphere again, especially as new clubs in the Middle East enter the madness, bidding up salaries and transfer fees beyond even some of the Sky Clubs.

It's all about money and what entertainment isn't.

Even the women's game wants a bigger piece of the cake but I think the women had better forget about Saudi Arabia.

On that point about women's rights in that country and others it seems the big wages override one's conscience.

The Saudi league reminds me of the early days of the MLS when many players towards the end of their careers grabbed at the chance to make big money for maybe one more season or two.

That you cannot blame them for given how short the professional playing career can be at the top level.

However, unless Saudi can produce the coaching of home grown players, they will not be able to compete on the same level as the top European leagues as many of their players will be ''senior citizens''.

"Either that or at least some Asia-based abstraction created by Fifa or Uefa"

Chris #14, you might be surprised to learn then that there's been an AFC Champions League in various forms since 1967 that has included Middle East club teams, and an AFC Asian Cup since 1956 for national teams.

Fifa and Uefa are no doubt aware of this already.

Eddie @ 33,

Now that would be a shame, what will they do to replace their oil income?

Once word starts getting back from the players who have gone there about the lifestyle, weather, money and conditions then I expect a mass exodus of top pros to Saudi next season.

Uefa will not matter if they form a super league, they'll simply form their own governing body. I have a feeling this is the start of world dominance by the Middle East as far as football is concerned.

Global TV markets are huge... Africa, Asia, USA, South America etc. The world is changing, the old guard is dying out, we live in a distorted reality where you don't even have to leave your living room to survive, everything can be delivered to your front door, even friendship can be conducted online.

It's a scary thought indeed but a reality as well.

Denis #25, the problem with the Saudi teams in the Champions League is going to be the Israeli teams.

The reason Israeli teams were expelled from the AFC is the Arab teams refused to play against them.

Personally I don't see buying 10, 20, 30 or so players from Europe giving the Saudi's a foothold in world football.

They'll need 10, 20, 30 or so "clubs" filled with hundreds of players, and if they're all of the standard of Captain Hypocrite from across the park good luck to 'em.

Andrew, #37, but the Iranians still have the money to supply their friends the Huthis who are trying to overthrow the government by killing anyone they find who oppses them, including children.

Depends on whether you think people trying to take over a country by force are more desérving of your sympathy then the government.

Not too sure how the Yemeny government were in feeding and educating the population before the civil war started but assume if the Huthi rebels won it would want an Islamic state like Iran. Just be glad you are male.

Michael #39 So how many social media followers moved to Everton from Real Madrid when James was signed by Ancelloti?

Ben- if not signing these oil licences meant we reduced our fossil fuels by that amount, all well and good but the honest truth is that we would still use the same but buy it from those loveable Saudis. And as Tony Blair pointed out this week, our annual emissions are less than the INCREASE each year in emissions in China. So whatever we do will have diddly squat difference to the climate in the world. But we need to keep on beating ourselves up and convincing ourselves that we are important in this equation.

Brian @ 47 true, but those 10, 20, 30 are in a very short period of time and when some of their mates see what's happening over there more of them will want a piece. That's when the floodgates really start to open up.

If Mbappe already had a Champions League winners medal under his belt, I reckon that would have increased the chances of him moving too and that really would have started alarm bells ringing at Uefa HQ.

Players have been flocking to the Premier League for the money. Now many of them will go to Saudi for the money.

And as Premier League clubs scour the Middle East for investment, fans will be free to choose between applauding the oligarchs' or the despots' money, or walk away from it all.

First time poster, lifelong Evertonian and long-term expat.

I've followed ToffeeWeb for years but perhaps this is a topic I have first-hand experience in. I spent my first 20 years growing up in Crosby, attended my first match at Goodison in 1964 and, because of a career opportunity, left the UK at the tender age of 21 to live and work in the Gulf region.

I'm now well into my 60s and still here. I have the distinction of launching international concert promotion into the region in the early 1980s and growing this business into the market leader.

I witnessed first-hand the growth of Dubai from a backwater with one main road and three small hotels into what it is today and played a role in its development by bringing some of the biggest artists into the country and the region. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. I even forayed into football, bringing Southampton to play the Bahrain national team back in 1996.

Quite a few of the posters on here make very valid observations, one especially made the point of the fact that local Gulf football fans are very loyal to their particular Premier League team, not the players in particular, the club itself.

It will take more than just a few years for this sense of club loyalty to build for Saudi clubs, no matter who they sign. It is perhaps the one sport that is driven by the passion of fans in attendance within the stadium, that cannot be replicated, even with a few top international players added to the mix.

I'd also like to add that not every idea launched in the Gulf is realized and many are abandoned. As far as Everton is concerned, it's true to state that we have little to no support amongst local football fans, but they love our Premier League and know that our fan base is both passionate and loyal.

I will be intrigued to see where the Saudi interest in football takes us but, in my opinion, it will take quite a few years for their ambitions to be realized and I hope by that time our beloved Blues are back where they belong.

Elissa #73 your first ToffeeWeb post was a really interesting one. And an interesting caution about the time it might take for the Saudi football experiment to take root. You should post more often!

Elissa #73,

I found your post really interesting, particularly your reference to building club loyalty.

One trend I've noticed over the last few years is a tendency for fans to follow a particular player, rather than a club. If that player transfers to a new club the fans also transfer their allegiance.

As this seems to be a modern phenomenon I'm not sure what happens when their player retires. Maybe they just switch to the latest superstar!

Have players flocked to the Premier league just for the money? If there weren't some other factors involved in establishing a brand with true global appeal China and the US would be top of the pile by now.

Yes, there are some very weird people who follow ‘star' names in team sports more than appreciating true teamwork, but most of us are responding to the urge to belong to a dominant ‘tribe' and the emotional boost that ‘shared' success can provide.

I don't think their wealth guarantees the Saudis will be able to create a domestic league with a massive audience (and the media want millions of subscribers at the the end of the day) nor crowbar Saudi based teams into the Champions League. Some sort of Superleague seems more ‘likely' but I think the true appetite for that is not as much as some believe. There continue to be too many examples of poorly judged ‘bubbles' for the success of such a venture to be seen to be inevitable.

MK (20), I'm not sure what biblical ‘aphorism' you are considering. The only biblical money quotes I can think of are purely moralistic and considerate of the afterlife, not meant to give you guidance for ‘success' in this one. It's the harm you can cause by a blinkered pursuit of personal wealth that is the problem, not the having more whilst others have less. You are not ‘evil' simply because you acquire money or don't share it, you are ‘evil' is you don't avoid hurting others to get it / or by hoarding it. Drug dealing / robbery / living luxuriously whilst your neighbours starve through no fault of their own - potentially very evil; tech billionaire / sports agent - not necessarily a problem as long as everyone who contributes gets their fair share.

Edit: embarrassed to say I'd overlooked Elissa's post and was responding to what looked like a groundswell of ‘it's pretty much inevitable'. Glad to see someone with ‘local' insight is not that convinced at the moment either.

Also meant to say, in regards to the LIV golf that is a very different sport and very suited to a very small number of kstar players' having the most pulling power. That said, the LIV lot still aren't looking to have every competition played in the Middle East are they. They realise that model wouldn't have the most appeal.

Morality is judged by those who believe they are without fault or blemish. But in truth it is a moving target: yesterday's normality is today's shame. Morality moves with those who influence, imposing it on everyone is doomed to failure.

But the very basis of what is normal Morality has to be established irrespective of colour, creed or religion, before condemnation we have to establish and agree and accept such standards.

It's never going to happen.

Tensions and war, inhumanity to a race or religion, money and corruption.
None of us will ever be clean, but this is were aspiration comes in, despite ongoing differences, countries have to aspire to a goal that will be easier to accept for some more than others.

Human rights are a basic and immovable block that cannot be eroded in the name of sport, for monetary gain, or political power, but it is and that's the problem. Hypocrisy at the highest level, at individual level, Jordan Henderson is a perfect example of it… morals forgotten in the pursuit of money. That's what we are up against.

Christine, this was on the cards as soon as the initially Sky influenced Premier League and the Champions League monsters were created in my opinion. It has escalated beyond reality and there are more vultures circling now trying to take their pickings.

Combined with the increased influence of attracting those leaches (agents) who treat footballers as commodities with one eye on their own commission rather than the players' best interest. Football equivalents of car salesmen.

Elissa, welcome to the community, although you've been part of it all your Everton life.

You'll get used to the nostalgia, the hope, the belief, the despair, frustration, joy, arguments and many more emotions.

Join in with this dis-functional group that we are and add to the discussion. We are all Everton family.

Another important season ahead and we are all going to argue, agree, debate and discuss. But we will ultimately stick together in wanting the team to win.

Starting next Saturday.

Ellisa #73, you must have arrived in Dubai to work at the same time as me, 1982 to 1984?

It was more than a three-horse town then with the Trade Centre and the Clock Tower Roundabout, and the Intercontinental and Sheraton hotels on The Creek. Can't believe I almost forgot about The Red Lion and Gloria's!

Much changed then from my first time there in 1974 when there was only the Kuwaiti Hospital and the yet-to-become infamous Astoria Hotel.

Do you regret what it has become now after those early years? I've been back when working in Abu Dhabi and am glad I was there in the early days.

On the Dubai piece, a place I've never been to, I did spend time in Qatar a while back.

That seemed to be developing itself as an upstart to Dubai and obviously hosted the World Cup.

It was pretty much desert when I went there, but then I was in a military base in the backend of nowhere.

Eric #80,

I arrived in 1978, the Intercon you mentioned on Sheikh Zayed Road was one of my first clients/venues, as was the Hyatt (the one with the ice rink) in Deira.

If my memory is serves me, the only hotel beach side was the Chicago Beach hotel. I wish I had taken more photos of that time but there was so little to photograph!

Thanks for the welcome all, I feel as though I've known you all for years. This site has kept me connected to Evertonians, plenty of agony and a few laughs!

Re the Saudi league, over the decades I've come to know several former top footballers who were appointed to coach clubs in Saudi, Bahrain and the UAE; it was a dispiriting slog for them.

The academy system within these clubs is non-existent and professional commitment from local recruits is at best inconsistent. It never ended well. I do wonder how the new international recruits will adapt to the lack of atmosphere and significant differences in levels and discipline amongst their team mates.

Elissa, I too had my one and only trip to Dubai in August 78, just a small dusty Arabian port then.

Our ship anchored off the town and we enjoyed swims in the sea, til our Chinese cooks started fishing for sharks, to chop their fins off and throw the rest back causing a feeding frenzy and a mass scouse exodus from the sea.

I've got a standing invitation to visit as my daughter-in-law lives there but it has no appeal for me. The £12 a pint is nothing to do with that decision either. . .