Palace feel the Dyche Effect as Everton refuse to be denied

Fulham (H) - Dominated, deserved a win. 3 pts dropped
A Villa (A) - Pitiful, deserved nothing. 0 points
Wolves (H) - Dominated, hit with sucker punch 3 pts dropped
Sheff Utd (A) - Arguably could have won, but fair result, 1pt
Arsenal (H) - Didn't really turn up. 0 pts
Brentford (A) - Great performance. 3 pts
Luton (H) - Deserved a point here, 1 pt dropped
Bournemouth (H) - Great performance. 3 pts
Liverpool (A) - Robbed by poor decisions, 1 pt dropped
West Ham (A) - Edged an even game, 3 pts
Burnley (H) - Purring now. 3 points
Brighton (H) - Rearguard action, but freak goal, 2 pts dropped?
C Palace (A) - Clinical performance, 3 pts

Obviously, I'm by no means impartial and maybe I'm being a bit over-optimistic with the Brighton and Liverpool results, but if we'd got what our performances merited (attacking and defensive) then we could be 7-10 points up, putting us on 21-24, in the top 7 and the hunt for Europe.

In reality we are where we are (14-maybe 15-16th by end of day) and we have a chunk of tough teams to play so I'll be happy with mid-table and ideally a tilt at the cups. But IF we stay fit, don't lose any of the key players in January and avoid some crazy points deduction, then I think we'll be fine.

Whilst it is a bit of an irritation having yet another international break after a morale-boosting win, it does nonetheless allow for another period of recovery for Coleman and Alli, and I feel this is relevant because we are very light as far as cover in both midfield and defence.

We are not there yet by any means, but to have goals across the team and such a strong and focussed group of players clearly playing for the manager – and each other – is as much as we can expect, given the absolute pit of despair we were in after those Bournemouth games last season.

There is no reason at all why we cannot get a result against Man Utd; beat them and we are well set for the difficult fixtures up to Christmas.

Man Utd at Goodison next – this is a winable game and could spell the end for Ten Hag if we smash them. COYB.

I'm actually happy about the international break as some of our boys were looking a bit leggy yesterday. We have played virtually the same team for the last 4 league games with minimal substitutions. Young may have good fitness levels but 5 minutes off at the end of a few games will take its toll.

The way we play allowing the other team the ball means we are flat out for most of the game. It would be nice to play it around for the final 5 mins rather than just kick it long into the opposite corner and then press defend again.

That said, great result!

Mykolenko looks like a proper full-back, generally stable at the back and partnerships forming all over the park. Great attitude and work ethic with the high press and we are finally being rewarded with the goals we deserve from past games where we've managed to be beaten having 20-25 shots in a game and lose.

I can only really think of Villa and Arsenal where we have not been on it. Goals are coming from all over the team as well which is fantastic. Well done lads, Bring on Man Utd. UTFT.

We are improving, lots more still to do but it is so good to see progress.

Based on a last-minute conflict, I "watched" the second half with only audio of the Peacock stream in my car while driving. The cheers and singing of the away supporters pumped me up. It sounded at times like it was being played at Goodison.

I can only imagine how the players on the pitch feel hearing that support. Thank you for those who made the trip and used their voice. You deserved that win and a great day!

You don't do what he attempted in the penalty area, it's one of the things you are taught as a youngster, don't go to ground. Centre-half is one of the easiest positions on the pitch: you don't need any skill set other than, head this, kick that.

With his poor clearances and fogging of the brain, he's a lot to learn, and in our position, we can't afford that.

Helmet on, bunker down.🙄

He has consistently tried to improve individual player stats, which has been let down by inconsistent player performance. But he has kept working with them and is gradually improving performance.

He has reduced the fear of a trademark inept performance by seeming to have upped the commitment to training at Finch Farm. Some commentators say that he has Everton playing like Burnley, but I think it is Burnley with potential.

They look like a side that could improve further. The winning goal that was scored against Crystal Palace was telling. It was a pass through the centre, with an Everton player running onto it. No team likes that type of goal scored against them in the final quarter of the second half.

It is something that every team spends time trying to prevent, in their preparation. It is something that will be taken note of and thought about by deciding to push up against Everton.

With some other forward play improvements, it may get to Big Club potential.

Let's play Michael Keane then who has been a walking, error prone disaster for 7 years.

Course Branthwaite will make mistakes, he's a young lad playing centre half in the Premier league in.

Also it's really not a 'head this, kick that' position at all. Not in the modern game.

"Perhaps now we can agree that wonder boy, future England centre-half, the next Brian Labone Jarrad Branthwaite is as prone to cock-ups as the next man."

So all players are equally prone to making cock-ups? Really? So you'd be equally happy with Keane instead of Branthwaite?

"With his poor clearances and fogging of the brain he's a lot to learn, and in our position, we can't afford that."

His poor clearances? I think he's a very good distributor of the ball. But maybe we can't afford to wait until he learns, as you say. Keane it is? Or who else at the moment? Ah, yes, Godfrey!

I'm absolutely baffled by your comment. It appears as though you want him to fail; at the very least you seem to be expecting perfection from our youngest regular player.

Of course he makes mistakes. He's 21. (John Stones made them, too, and look at him now.) The lad's been an absolute revelation this season but has made a few errors in the past 2 games.

The good thing is, nothing he has done so far has cost us anything and there can be no bigger positive than that – he's learning what to do and not to do, making the odd mistake all while we're picking up points! It's pretty much an ideal situation for a kid of his age.

I'd enjoy him while we can because a massive offer will inevitably come in for him within the next couple of years and "in our position" (that phrase is more apt to our off-the-field circumstances than on-the-field, where I think we'll be fine) we probably won't be able to turn it down.

One of the densest, dimmest comments I've read here in a long time (and that's saying something).

Certainly could only have come from somebody who never played the position -- or the game.

To suggest centre-back is one of the easiest positions on the pitch is a very strange comment. I don't think there is an easy position on the field of football.

You have to anticipate, read the game and play out from the back. Defend, but play football. Aside from the goalkeeper, the last line of defence. But get the momentum going again when you turn possession.

If a midfielder loses the ball, the defence is still behind them to recover the situation, turn possession, and get the team back on the front foot.

I've said many times, be patient with Branthwaite. He will come good. You can see it in him every time you watch him play for those who have. Composed on the ball. Anticipates well. Yes, he will make mistakes. Tell me a player that doesn't or never has. We have a player in the making. Football is a game of mistakes.

I said at the time it was a penalty and I had a direct line viewing point. I think the Palace player did play for it, but let's not slate young Jarrad. He went for the ball, arguably clipped the player, who went down with the slightest of contact.

It happens. It's football, not Playstation.

By the way, we won.

Man Utd next at Goodison. Maybe… just maybe, Ten Hag joins Ron Atkinson and David Moyes on the list of Manchester United managers who end their tenure at Goodison Park.

Team spirit is excellent, but we do need to stop giving ball away and have hardly any possession for long periods of games.

Eze is a tricky customer. He preyed on Jarrad's inexperience, buying a penalty, and nearly conning his way to another.

As for the supporters… unbelievable. As I keep saying, just wait. The football will not know what has hit it. Dare I say startled.

To coin and old advert phrase.

Newcastle? Who are day?

Not The Imposters.

For the first time in a couple of seasons, I'm feeling confident rather than worried.

FFS were you bored or something?

“You have to anticipate, read the game and play out from the back.”

Danny, I'd argue that it's preferable if at least one centre-back can do that but you don't necessarily need two.

“I eventually settled as a very good football playing centre-back.”

I also played centre-back. Wouldn't want to judge my own performance there, though!

In my own mirror, graceful and classy.

I actually didn't like heading the ball. I always tried to read ahead and pick the ball up and play on the floor.

Man Utd home?

I don't think we're starting.

Perhaps next week he might mention set pieces.

However, what I did notice both last week and also this week is that there is a cheeky positivity about some of those goals – especially from those you least expect to be scoring them... it's the sense of "I can do this – so what the hell!"

It's a burst of energy and positivity which is very refreshing and takes the pressure off the strikers to see the whole team contributing. Well done, Mick and Gana.

Finally some light, finally some goals, finally some stability and much less fear going forward. Long way to go but, just like the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock, the foundations are firm and stable.

I'm still not a fan of this "playing without the ball" or his bizarre attitude towards substitutions but overall he's doing exactly what we need after 2 seasons of near disaster.

Well done to all concerned.

But we recovered and, as also mentioned above, Tarkowski is our best centre-back. Jarrad will be a good player, he may even be great. But even if he is, he will still make mistakes.

I'll take my boots for the Man Utd game but won't hold my breath.

No, the easiest position is the uninformed one many of Dyche's critics take up. Get your shinpads on.

In the heat of the battle, it looks like the team are starting to trust each other, and although it sometimes goes wrong, hopefully next time they get it right between them, and it takes us to the next level at defending as a team.

Quite shocked if you are, as you, probably more than anyone, knows that communication between players is a vital part of the game. There would have had to have been a shout by Pickford of “Keepers”, or “Away”, and if there was neither, then Tarkowski should have taken the only option available to him, by heading the ball away.

If there was no shout by Pickford, then that is clearly an error on his behalf, but also an error by Tarkowski, assuming Pickford would come and collect. A vital lesson learned, and fortunately we went and got the winner a few minutes later.

I've seen Dyche blamed for the second Palace equaliser. I've even seen Branthwaite and Pickford blamed.

Make no mistake. This was another Howler from JT. He very nearly cost us three points.

There seems to be a few center halves posting on this thread. I would like to think they would all have apologised to their team mates if they had handed such an easy goal to the opposition. Whatever level they played at.

Eze is a beautifully balanced footballer. He also has the quickest feet. More experience players than Branthwaite will be drawn Into making challenges when he is playing like that.

I find it bemusing to see some are prepared to criticise Branthwaite, While Tarkowski is given a passage.

One of our central partnership committed a forced error in the face of clear danger. The other made an error which would shame a semi sober Sunday league player.

Bottom line: we had two mistakes from usually reliable players gift Palace two goals and we found a way to respond. An affordable lesson for both, possibly three if Pickford was in any way culpable.

However, he definitely should have dealt with that Palace equaliser. If in doubt, clear it out, was our defensive mantra, and no, I wasn't a centre-back.

At the same time, Pickford should be claiming those. I used to tell my keeper “If I'm in the way, clear me out too!”. And they always did very happily…

He's not a top, top centre-half and why should we expect him to be? Same as the rest of our current squad, few of them are the creme-de-la-creme, but on Saturday and for most of this season they are all giving 100% effort and commitment to help Everton gain points.

That's what we all wanted to see from this squad at the start of this season, and despite the poor start, the team has gained confidence and won a few good points on the road.

Will we see most of our players make a mistake in future games, you can bet your life on it, will it be because they didn't care? I don't believe so.

All players are open to be criticised and when they make mistakes it's fair to point out where they went wrong, but to denigrate the overall ability of a player because he doesn't suit somebody's minds-eye view of what an Everton player should be able to do is to fail to understand where we are at as a club and it sets an expectation above the ability of most of the current squad.

I'm all for demanding better, and keeping the standards high and not accepting anything below what our players are capable of, but we must remember that we have been down in the lower reaches of the league for quite some time, not for one year but for many.

If this season, we get a team that works its socks off and tries to do its best in every game, we really should be pleased with that, not necessarily satisfied but pleased.

We also have to realise that in our next few fixtures at Goodison we are the underdogs and as a crowd we should react to that and support the players out on the pitch to help them perform and give maximum effort.

Criticising players for what they can't do, is easy and serves no purpose, praising them and getting behind them for what they do on the pitch, is far more productive, even if at times, if might prove difficult.

Tarkowski is practically our captain.

The keeper usually makes the shout.

If you don't get the shout, you clear. If you get the the shout, you get out of the way and leave it. There was clearly a miscommunication.

Tarkowski has been great for us and is a good mentor for Branthwaite.

I like how he gets in the face of the opposition and just smiles or laughs at them.

Basically piss off gobshites.

I’m not saying I’m right, especially if the manager allegedly said Tarkowski heard a shout, but I am saying that when a team is under the cosh and defending for their lives, then sometimes defenders expect their keeper to come and help them out, by collecting things like that little looping header, that could have easily been Pickford’s, but our goalkeeper doesn’t play on the front foot enough, imo, and something that was easily avoidable resulted in a Palace goal.

I hope it’s sorted out because as I said earlier, I believe that trust is absolutely massive, and the more you can trust your teammates, then the better things become for everyone.

As the goalkeeper, Pickford can see everything that's in front of him, including Edouard who scored the goal. As the ball comes in and Tarkowski ducks, there is no movement whatsoever by Pickford, and Edouard runs past Tarkowski to fire home.

Now if it's Pickford who's shouted, he would, or at least should, have come and collected the ball. But he didn't, he made no movement at all.

So has the shout come from Edouard? I guess it wouldn't be the first time an opponent has tried something like this to try and gain an advantage.

I thought it was a joke at the time but maybe there was something in that?

The general consensus around my spec was that Pickford must've called and should have collected it. It doesn't fully excuse Tarkowski but I don't see Pickford as blameless either.

Cheating has become so acceptable now that a lot of players don't even argue because they know they have simply been outfoxed by their clever cheating opponent. But I'm sure Pickford and Tarkowski especially, would have gone absolutely menta if they had been kidded by the Palace player in this incident.

As I say in my first post, he has generally got away with the hammering other players get. Happens all the time. Can you imagine this place if that was Michael Keane or Young or Gana?

Sorry, if we are going to criticise inexperienced players like Branthwaite for their perceived errors, We shouldn't be making excuses for the experienced guy who makes an absolute howler.

I don't buy the lack of communication theory. Any defender worth his salt would have cleared that ball and asked questions later.

It does baffle me when some demand football on the front foot whilst stoutly defending the main reason we don't play it.

I thought Tarkowski was, officially, our captain, whilst Seamus is out.

"If Tarkowski can't distinguish between a broad Geordie accent, and a French accent, then he needs a hearing test".

Rob, I can distinguish between the two accents but I can't understand a bloody word either the Geordies or the French say.

I've always said, even going back to the day Pickford clattered into Ashley Williams in his first season, that Pickford is a great shot-stopper, but is useless supporting his centre-halves by commanding the 6-yard box. Hence the vulnerability to set pieces.

Everything is laid on the centre-halves but what about a commanding keeper???

Personally I believe Tarkowski is having a good season and, for me and many others, he's a major part of this team and the spine to build on. I think his and Branthwaite's growing understanding is a strength.

Yes, he shouldn't have ducked, I've agreed that. But overall he's been solid and decent and yes, I think you're being harsh on him.

What? With those ears??? He looks like Martin Clunes!!

Then he takes ages before he decides whether to play it small to one of his defenders or waves them away and kicks it up the field or out of play a lot of the time.

Or King Charles who has got permission to shit in the street with the size of his ears!

If he didn't make a shout then surely you don't duck out of the header.

He dropped a bollock, it happens. He has enough credit in the bank.

My post about criticism of Branthwaite was not aimed at you. It was an observation. Many have pointed fingers at him whilst not even commenting on Tarkowski's error. I felt the latter was the greater mistake.

Tarkowski is not without his qualities. He is a determined tower of strength. If there is a better backs-to-the-wall defender in world football at the moment, I haven't seen him.

Unfortunately for Tarks he has never attracted attention from the top clubs who want to dominate possession. Theres a good reason for that. If you want to boss the game, a defender who is not comfortable on the ball and sits deep doesn't start for you.

For me. Those extolling his virtues whilst complaining about the team surrendering territory and possession are answering their own argument.

Our Progression to being a team which dominates the football can, for me at least. wait. We have more pressing matters. We desperately need to win a trophy. That's something I firmly believe we will put right on the 26th of February.

I believe the form of James Tarkowski will be pivotal in our quest.

You said, "He gets away with murder. Clumsy in possession, poor passer of the ball. His last ditch tackles are treated as heroic, but they are near!y always a result of his inability to see danger in its infancy."

I think that is harsh, but it's opinions.

As Danny says, your more recent assessment is fair enough - especially the bit about him not attracting attention from the top clubs, which was also my point. He's the best we can get at the moment – if he was better he'd be out of our reach.

So I accept his odd mistake and yes, Saturday was his mistake whatever the circumstances, he shouldn't have ducked. (I still prefer him to top club McGuire tho...)

Being honest, Jagielka was far from comfortable with the ball. Dave Watson was another but they both did very good jobs for Everton, over a longer period than Tarkowski.

Unfortunately, he is getting on a bit but is doing a very good job now and I'm more than happy we have him bolstering up our defence, and helping at the other end as well.

I used to constantly argue with my youngest brother (17 years my junior) about Jagielka. One of his idols. I used quote the Jagielka clip.

Then again, in my youth, I was in the camp that was mortified when we replaced Derek Mountfield with Dave Watson. I think I was only about 14.

In hindsight, Watson and Jagielka were solid if not classy defenders. I think Tarkowski falls into that category.

True enough, and I forgot to mention Jagielka and Watson both got a few caps for England, mind you so did Michael Keane and McGuire is still getting them!

It's not about me or anybody else being right or wrong, it's only an opinion, but I do know what I'd prefer to watch and it isn't seeing Everton doing a backs-to-the-wall job every other home match.

My argument will always be that if your team is not brave enough with the ball, and constantly relies on defenders and defensive football over the whole season, you will likely drop as many points as you might gain. You may also fail to see any improvement of the team's ball retention because the team will generally have far less of it than some of us would wish to see.

Pragmatic versus progressive will always be the argument, right now it would seem that pragmatic is the correct choice, but at some point progressive will have to come into view, both types require the same amount of concentration, commitment and work ethic from the players.

One style is easier to watch from a fans point of view and perhaps one style is easier for the players to implement because it's a little less challenging for them.

I saw a young Michael Ball in the do or die relegation battle versus Coventry take the ball calmly out of defence and hammer it high into the stands to gain a few seconds and let the team regroup, not bang it straight down the field and put Coventry immediately on the attack again.

He was a young lad thinking, not a lot to ask or to put into operation is it? Or better still bring the ball out of defence calmly, I saw Jonjoe Kenny do it at Anfield in the build-up to a goal, Onana did it at WHU a couple of weeks ago.

Some people have got more patience than others, and I'm sure most people would love to see Everton playing beautiful football, but right now I think that Sean Dyche, is doing a very good job, and especially because he seems to be instilling things that Everton have lacked for years.

I remember reading Dyche saying that it would do him no good fighting against people's opinions of him, especially because most of them would have already had a pre-conceived idea about his style of management,

After he has cleaned up the almighty mess he inherited the day he took the Everton job, he will definitely have to go and show people that he has got quite a few feathers in his cap; otherwise, his baldy head won't be able to cope with the cold winds around Bramley-Moore Dock!

All well and good, but I also said that as soon as we have safety, many of the previously happy supporters will not be praising the style of play, demanding change of style or change of manager, which at some point will be his downfall.

We are slowly and surely coming out of a mess, but soon aspirations and expectations will demand more. New owners' aspirations too... who knows where their head is? I just cannot see Dyche in the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock, and that's a shame.

As for the fans, you're right. There will be (as there already is) a lot of criticism for style of play and 'failure' to get us competing for top 6 finishes.

However there's not much Dyche (or indeed anyone else) can do without the same level of investment as the top 8 clubs we're currently well adrift of financially.

Some fans can be happy with Dyche and not asking to change his style of playing but asking him to alter it slightly like he does when the other team equalise or go ahead.

He then starts attacking more and changes from being ultra defensive and start letting the other team we know how to attack, not going mad just trying to put the ball in the opposition net!

But asking for safety instead of fretting and worrying is only asking a fair request, that's all I ask of this manager he's done enough to get us where we are. Just attack a bit more for now will do.

Confidence on the ball.

I don't need to add any more to your post. I'm a purist even though I was a defender!

You're not wrong, but are you not comparing apple's to oranges mate?

When Dave Watson played, possession stats didn't exist. He was also surrounded by people who could play. His job was much easier than Tarkowski's. Win the ball, give it to Reidy or Bracewell. He also had two exceptionally talented wide men as options.

I believe Harrison is possibly as good without the ball as Tricky Trev. I also think McNeil is better than Sheedy was when we are not in possession. However, you certainly won't need me to tell you that there was massive gulf between these two sets of wide men when we had the ball.

I think Jagielka was a fairer comparison, but was our football any better then? Even with talented players like Baines, Pienaar and Arteta. Moyes regularly served up percentage football. It drove me to distraction. Jagielka was often slaughtered for just "hoofing it".

I won't get involved in the non-argument about what fans prefer (progressive v pragmatic football) because I don't think there is a fan of football who would prefer the latter.

I and many others believe Dyche is working with the tools at his disposal. Tarkowski is not the only player who is uncomfortable with the ball. Most of this team give it up far too cheaply.

Dyche has found a way of making us look like a unit. Our football may not be sexy, but there is clear evidence to suggest we are attacking in greater numbers when we do get the ball.

Can he take us to the next level? I don't know enough about the guy to comment on that. That's why I keep badgering your Tony.

Don't start me on Reid and Bracewell or I'll be here all day and night with the dogs listening to me.

McNeil is good and has a great delivery on him.

But wash your mouth out.

Sheedy.

I'm one of the fans who won't be content if we don't develop a more effective style of play with the ball. Just as I was with long spells of shocking football under Moyes (and Royle and Ancelotti and everyone else).

But I will accept that it's the club's responsibility (through spending and / or player development) to deliver better players to the manager, to enable that better football.

Hard to be too critical of Dyche after inheriting a crap squad and one window where we were outspent net by Luton.

I remember a game at Goodison years ago. I think it was against Norwich in the FA Cup. If I recall correctly, we came out for the second half and tried Stubbs in midfield.

I think it lasted about 5 minutes!