Sean of all hope: You fooled me for a while

by   |   16/04/2024  61 Comments  [Jump to last]

I always thought Sean Dyche’s record at Burnley, considering the resources he had, was commendable. In our situation, I thought he was a pragmatic fit.  

But even from the get-go, there were red flags I chose to overlook. Firstly, Burnley native Joe McMahon kept warning ToffeeWebers off him. Then he told another ToffeeWeber, Tony Abrahams, that we had “very good players”.

But the biggest red flag of all was his last year at Burnley. He had one win – just one – before February. Then he squeezed out two, then more failure before a final win (only the fourth of the season) in April… versus Everton, of course.

Then he was sacked.

Article continues below video content

What happened next? His no-name backroom boy Harrison took over and the very next games ended in a draw then three wins! Think about that. Harrison didn’t have the benefit of a transfer window. He was some inexperienced guru bringing in different styles and unearthing hidden gems.

He just sent the same team out that Sean Dyche had personally built — and he instantly got more out of them. A clueless backroom boy who’s gone on to do nothing and yet he got as much out of that Burnley team in a month as Sean had in 9!!!!

Now, we have Sean Dyche achieving the remarkable feat of beating Mike Walker's winless record. And bear in mind Frank Lampard kept us up with a game to spare 2 years ago, whereas Sean took us to the final day last season. 

I’m not advocating his sacking because even bigger idiots have ensured we can’t afford to fire him. But I am merely pointing out that all this crap about “Look at the hand he was dealt” – while true – could be flipped and you could say “Look at the hand the players were dealt having him as manager!”

His last Burnley team boasted McNeil, Tarkowski, an England goalie, and an injury-prone England striker. Sound familiar? Yet they also had Cornet who was good before Moyes got his hands on him and they got a handful of wins in 9 months. 

So yes, the players are crap, the owner is worse… but you’re crap too, Sean, and overpaid. Any 3rd rate number two or three could have achieved as much with this team — even Big Dunc!

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Andy Crooks
1 Posted 16/04/2024 at 15:29:00
Kieran, your piece pretty much sums up the way I feel. I have defended Dyche and truly thought he was the right man at the right time. In fact, small part of me still believes so. But then... I think back to the inept, appalling surrender of Martinez at Southampton, match which confirmed my view that he was the worst coach we ever had. Well, last night topped that.
The players were cowardly and poor but, for me that comes from the tactical ineptitude and complete lack of motivation from the coach. I doubt there is another person in the world, from Pep to my next door neighbours cat who thinks that his tactics and team selection last night were anything other than insane. The last throw of the dice from a man at the end of his tether, and what an utterly appalling throw it was.

Joe McMahon
2 Posted 16/04/2024 at 15:54:25
Thanks for remembering me Kieran. I've just got home from work and tried to block last night. It's my wife who's a Claret (she's from Burnley) so we watch a fair bit of them.

The frustrating elements of the dyche years at Turf have definitely been brought to Everton. The tactics were the same no matter the opposition, substitutions with minutes to spare when it's too late, and a reluctance to use the squad. What we have is the same Sean Dyche.

Yes he can be charismatic and likeable but he is very reluctant to evolve his management style. What we witness at Everton was exactly the same at Turf. The most surprising thing he did was ghe move for Maxwell Cornet. A gifted flair player, when he played it gave the Clarets something new and exciting to watch. Danny Ings was also very good, but I think he came from the academy or possibly Eddie Howe?

James Carroll
3 Posted 16/04/2024 at 15:57:26
Isn’t today the 2 year anniversary of Burnley sacking Dyche with 8 games remaining?
Kevin Naylor
4 Posted 16/04/2024 at 16:15:29
Sack him now, we are going down with him but we might just survive without him. Anyone and I mean anyone could do a better job for the last few games imo.
Robert Tressell
5 Posted 16/04/2024 at 16:46:34
Kieran, this is a good article lost to some of the other threads which have caught on.

My own thoughts are long these lines:

- Dyche has inherited us at probably our weakest point in the last 35 years. There are undeniable facts to back this up; the minus £70m spending in the past three years, the points deduction and the Transfermarkt valuation of the squad being lower than that of Brentford, Bournemouth, Forest and Palace.

- I do not relish to crap football and position in a relegation fight, but I do understand why it is happening - and why much of it is beyond Dyche's control.

- Dyche did a truly remarkable job last season. We really shouldn't have stood a chance of staying up, since each of the three relegated clubs ended the season with superior squads - and Lampard (plus the sales of Richarlison and Gordon) left us in a terrible mess. I don't think that's arguable.

- Without the points deduction we are in 14th on 35 points. That will probably be enough to stay up this season - so he has, of sorts, already done the difficult job that was asked of him. If we go down, it will be because of the points deduction.

- Is Dyche doing enough now to give us a further boost? Not really. He's struggling. This is the first patch we've hit under Dyche where it looks like we've run out of ideas. Last season he varied it up with back 4 v back 3 and a pretty innovative side that beat Bournemouth on the final day. That's all stopped. He's not been able to get Patterson and Harrison working together on the right flank (which although not exactly stellar must have been Plan A). His other options are limited by the injuries to Dobbin and Danjuma (not exactly Salah and Nunez unfortunately), which is the only other way to create attacking variety.

- Can Dyche do more - yes, and the return to health of Danjuma should help. I do suspect though that a small squad is now both physically and mentally exhausted from the pressure of the outrageous points deduction. By contrast, our opponents last night sold hotels to companies within their own group in order to evade punishment. The biggest thing he can do is revive the flagging energy levels and morale.

- We lurch from woe to jubilation on this site but really we are still better placed than Forest and Luton who are both also in awful form and have a game less to play. Luton also have a much worse goal difference despite our drubbing last night. So I think it will be tight but we should still stay up.

- Ultimately, and there's no two ways about this, if we want to keep out of relegation troubles next season and play better football then we need better players. Sharp decline in player standards due to financials since Ancelotti is real story behind the last 3 years of struggle.

Kieran Kinsella
6 Posted 16/04/2024 at 17:17:44

I feel like the lack of motivation last night and in recent games may well be a result of the tactical ineptitude and failure to change things week after week after week. How any of these players can be confident in one another or the tactics after 1 fairly lucky win against 10 men in 4 months is a mystery to me.

Kieran Kinsella
7 Posted 16/04/2024 at 17:18:02

You were the canary in the coal mine.

Kieran Kinsella
8 Posted 16/04/2024 at 17:20:22

The irony about the 35 points is that while media talking heads are increasingly blaming our form on the psychological harm done by the deduction, 16 of those 35 points came in the immediate aftermath of the first deduction. It seems in hindsight there was a bout of collective bloody mindedness for a few weeks which has disappeared since.

Andy Crooks
9 Posted 16/04/2024 at 17:21:12
Like what you did there, Kieran 😉
Paul Tran
10 Posted 16/04/2024 at 17:36:10
The issue with Dyche is not about tactics. If I was running a team without goalscorers or pace, I'd focus on the defence.

His strength is that he produces well-organised teams that battle. That's not been us for four months. The question is: Why has that stopped?

We've gone from a well-organised team that can't score to a shambles that can't defend either. And confidence has plummeted.

Under Lampard, I argued that he had a midtable squad in the Bottom 3. Shorn of Richarlison, Gordon, even Simms and Cannon as back up, it won't be better.

We'd be 14th without the deductions, and I think we'll still stay up. But if I was managing Dyche, I'd be asking where the fight and organisation has gone from this team???

That's his strength and it's gone. And without that...

Lee Courtliff
11 Posted 16/04/2024 at 17:39:34
It was Joe and myself who were the biggest critics of Dyche upon his arrival. I'm from Burnley and watched them 'play' many times during the Dyche-ball era that they were so very proud of.

I repeatedly criticised him on here fairly early on in his reign and quite a few disagreed with me. I was particularly critical of our second-half performance against Brentford around a month or so into his reign when we offered nothing for the entire second half. We won 1-0 thanks to a great strike from McNeil after 30 seconds.

He showed his usual traits by being quite happy to sit back at home to Brentford and see out the slender lead without any effort at all to change the tide during the second half where we did nothing whatsoever.

But, we won, so his methods were proved right. Then there was Leicester away where he, once again, refused to make any subs in the second half even though the game was there to be won. We drew 2-2 and we had Gray and Simms on the bench but neither got any minutes even though Doucoure was basically anonymous in the second half.

This season, I decided I would try to support him properly, ignoring the things he doesn't do, like make subs or play football, and instead concentrate on his strengths, ie, fitness, set-pieces, team spirit, etc.

And, to be honest, I was pleasantly surprised during the early part of the season. Despite no wins, our performances against Fulham, Wolves etc showed some promise. Then we hit form and won 8 league games between September and mid-December.

Dyche was proving me wrong and everything looked rosy, considering the last 2 seasons.

But, these last 4 months have shown that was just a blip and his usual failings have to come to the fore. He stopped playing Patterson and Dobbin, and instead persevered with Godfrey at right-back, Young was inexplicably selected to play right-wing against a struggling Palace at home, and was generally just dire and predictable.

I never rated him at Burnley, I didn't want him at Goodison and, despite the brief flurry between September and December of last year, I've been proven right about him.

Tired, stale football played by his favourites every week, regardless of how poorly they perform. Just imagine if Patterson or Dobbin had got themselves 2 yellow cards in the first half of the Anfield derby?!?! Dyche would use this as a reason for saying they're not ready for Premier League football. But it's perfectly fine for Ashley Young to do it.

Then imagine if a young player had scored the own goal at Bournemouth? Would Dyche have persevered with him? Would he fuck!!!!

He's a fuckin dinosaur and he's going to do with us what he did at Burnley.. .fill the team with old 'experienced' players, play turgid football, and eventually take us down!

I've never, in 34 years of following this once great club, had to actually try to support the manager! Normally, I back everyone and convince myself this will be the turning point. I even found it easier to support Rafa than this guy!

I've honestly tried with Dyche, but the Palace game in February disgusted me and I'd be quite happy to sack him today and put Baines in charge for the last few games.

Dyche is, at best, a poor manager who has only ever gotten results at Premier League level through shithousing, with a handful of exceptions.

Good riddance to him.

Edward Rogers
12 Posted 16/04/2024 at 17:40:45
Not trying to be pedantic, but Burnley were still relegated despite sacking Dyche.

As I said earlier, we will not go down, but we must reset at season end.

Andy Crooks
13 Posted 16/04/2024 at 17:42:48
Sadly, Lee, I now agree
Neil Tyrrell
14 Posted 16/04/2024 at 21:45:51
Robert's and Lee's comments have already said pretty much everything I was thinking while reading the article, and together with the piece also covered my trajectory with Dyche.

As recently as February, when we had some tough results where we arguably deserved better, I was backing him. Not his fault none of our players can score and all that. But since then, our previously solid defence has basically gone to shit, and on the rare occasion we find ourselves with a lead, the game management is non-existent. He can't be absolved of responsibility.

It's true that our players aren't very good, I mean Gomes is probably the only one who came out of yesterday looking anything like a Premier League player, but Dyche has shown nothing either. Chicken or the egg?

Where's the inspiration from the manager? He needs to find it and quick or we are fucked. Hard to believe there's 3 teams worse than us based on yesterday's showing.

Kieran Kinsella
15 Posted 17/04/2024 at 04:03:56
Paul Tran

It's a fair point. Rather like the England team of 2018 that went to the World Cup with little hope but they exceeded expectations by doing simple things well: defending and set pieces. Much like Joe Royle's Dogs of War.

But if that's all you've got and you stop doing that, then you're in big trouble.

Kieran Kinsella
16 Posted 17/04/2024 at 04:12:20
Edward Rogers,

For clarity, I'm not saying we will go down as I give up all hope. But I am saying I've given up hope in Sean as someone who can get the most out of a pretty meagre group. Luckily there are two teams much worse than us, and one on paper far worse who annoyingly and punching above their weight.

On Burnley, I realize they sacked Sean and still got relegated but, after 4 wins through mid-April, they picked up 10 out of a possible 12 points in the first four games with a no-name backroom boy as caretaker. Thereafter, they only had 3 games left and pretty much needed to win them all for their equivalent of John Carver, Ian Brantfoot or Jimmy Gabriel to keep them up.

Little surprise the fellow didn't pull off an absolute miracle. But the bigger question is how he got as much out of a team Sean built over many years in the course of a month versus nine? 3 wins versus 4.

Lee Courtliff
17 Posted 17/04/2024 at 07:19:51
Kieran, the guy who took over from Dyche was called Mike Jackson. He's still with the club in a coaching capacity, I think.

One of my friends said the attitude of the substitutes bench was also much improved under MJ. Cheering on the team, celebrating goals together, etc.

That's not a dig at Dyche, I just think after nearly 10 years everything had gone stale and they just needed a change.

As you all now know, the subs at Burnley didn't get used very often by Sean.

Edward Rogers
18 Posted 17/04/2024 at 08:11:01
Kieran, point taken. If we could guarantee a new manager bounce, I'd be all for it. I still think we'll be okay (just) but not sure we will survive next season if nothing changes, what a mess.

My first real memory of Everton was the 1968 FA Cup Final, if I'd have only known then what I was getting in to!!!

Lee, I've also noticed, on more than one occasion, the disinterest on our bench during matches, very worrying.

Jerome Shields
19 Posted 17/04/2024 at 09:06:46
For me, Dyche got the tactics totally mixed up at Stamford Bridge and the players' confidence is shot. The only consolation is that Everton's player confidence is shot at this stage every season.

We are however stuck with Dyche and all the above comments are right. Premier League teams are well versed in Dycheball and Dyche's attempt on a variation completely expose its weaknesses, because of his unchanged player selection. I did think he would have gone for pure Dycheball against Chelsea, but he proved to be a fool.

Everton are not in the relegation zone yet, but are going to be flirting with it in the remaining matches. Dyche is going to have to go back to pure Dycheball for the remaining games, which will mean very fine margins, but consistency is the main requirement needed in the run-in. Other teams need to flounder for Everton to survive. Those that are inconsistent.

As for after that, it is going to be similar next season: Dycheball, point deductions and financial football off the pitch. Hopefully in the Premier League.

Kevin Edward
20 Posted 17/04/2024 at 10:20:17
I agree that what happened at Burnley was a red flag but, in the circumstances, he was the best fit at the time to perhaps put a stop to the revolving door.

The players are poor, in quality and motivation, but it's the manager's responsibility to improve performance and motivate.

And there's the massive failure, if we go down, we deserve it, but Dyche will have added nothing during his tenure.

Hopefully the fear of being saddled with relegating us will force some sense of fight and pride, and the players will step up regardless.

But I'll be happy to see Dyche go at the end (or the bitter end…).

Eddie Dunn
21 Posted 17/04/2024 at 10:43:25
I am also frustrated with Dyche but add 8 points to our tally and think a little.
Much better than Lampard, not great but better.
Jack Convery
22 Posted 17/04/2024 at 10:57:45
To get 35 points with this squad is a minor miracle; however, this is not a normal season due to the points deductions. I reckon, should we lose to Forest and the performance is anything like the Burnley one, the fans will let Dyche and the club know he has to be relieved of his position as manager.

The run of 15 games with one win and that thanks to an idiot goalkeeper and a quick-witted Calvert-Lewin is not good enough, even with these players.

Robert Tressell
23 Posted 17/04/2024 at 21:25:40
Another way to look at Dyche's time at Burnley is one of sustained success that eventually ran its course - and with a much, much smaller budget that his successor Kompany has been given - and also without the backing of the sort of sophisticated player development / recruitment strategy that feeds the likes of Frank (Brentford) and DeZerbi (Brighton) with quality players.

I know he's got his flaws, but without Dyche Burnley wouldn't have been doing better - they would have been doing much worse.

Oliver Molloy
24 Posted 17/04/2024 at 23:33:44
If you mean we can't afford to sack him (monetary wise), I disagree – of course we can afford to sack him – and we will!

The "noise" as Dyche always goes on about is getting louder.
If he keeps us up I predict he will not be Everton manager new season (if we get relegated, he may get a chance).

Lose to Forest on Saturday and who knows what might happen!


Mick O'Malley
25 Posted 18/04/2024 at 12:40:24
I despise the guy with a passion and have repeatedly said that he is an awful manager:

16 goals from open play, the lowest in the Premier League; one poxy league win against 10-man Burnley in 4 months; mind-numbing football that makes you hate going the match; picking favourites because they are experienced;
players out of position,
isolating the striker as our midfield are stuck in a rigid position standing on the defenders' toes,
no width…

I am praying for the day he goes. I'm embarrassed that he is our manager. Since the Portugal trip, we have got worse. I also hate his treatment of Patterson who he said didn't get the joke of being slapped on the head.

The substitutes probably look disinterested as they know they'll be lucky to get 5 minutes barring an injury. He averages a goal a game over his career.

His press conferences are just clichéd bullshit: "On the grass" and "In the moment". Do us a favour, Sean, and take your bleep tests and your useless coaching team and fuck off.

Brian Harrison
26 Posted 18/04/2024 at 13:02:21

Like you, I hate the soundbites that Dyche comes out with, like we need to "change the story" or "it's the small details" or "he is back on the grass".

Kevin Naylor
27 Posted 18/04/2024 at 13:12:14
Agree he has to go, we might still go down without him but I'm certain we will with him.
Raymond Fox
28 Posted 18/04/2024 at 13:58:43
The managers always an easy target when teams are losing games.

We've changed managers how many times in the last few years and look where we still are.

Dont forget the reality is that we should have 8 more pts and the table would look a lot better. At the start of the season what was the expectation?

We retained DCL who now cant hit a barn door, and sold Richarlison, Gordon and 2 or 3 of our more dangerous players.

If players want out its best to let them go but their replacements have up to now been disappointing, no wonder we are toothless, Who is not playing that could improve us, I don't see them.

The players have had ample time to show how much ability they have in attack, unfortunately they have not displayed much.

Clive Rogers
29 Posted 18/04/2024 at 14:10:19
Raymond, 28, yes we have sold better players than the ones we have replaced them with. I have been very disappointed with Thelwell’s signings in the last two summer windows. Too many similar MFs who don’t score many goals. Beto and Chermiti were the wrong signings for a relegation fight and signing Young at 38 was simply ridiculous and embarrassing.
Ernie Baywood
30 Posted 18/04/2024 at 14:14:41
"We've changed managers how many times in the last few years and look where we still are."

I keep reading this.

Which manager shouldn't we have changed since Carlo departed? Why is Dyche different?

We keep changing players too. Is that wrong?

I can't understand what part of playing dreadful anti football without results over a long period time wouldn't warrant a change.

I still can't quite figure out how this guy has so many people on his side. What is it about him that people rate? I see absolutely nothing.

Danny O’Neill
31 Posted 18/04/2024 at 14:28:38
Ernie, I think a lot lost it Monday night.

I personally don't think now is the time. As I said on my article, which for some reason won't show, we are hurting.

He is here for the rest of the season as are these players and us supporters.

Barry Rathbone
32 Posted 18/04/2024 at 14:40:10

It's wrong because giving a manager a season or less expecting challenging, attractive football by spending buttons is the height of delusion.

Christopher Timmins
33 Posted 18/04/2024 at 14:45:05

We don't improve our chances of surviving if we move on the manager. We have 3 games in the next 9 days, after that we have only 3 to play. It's too late to make a change at this stage.

Circle the wagons and get behind the team and hope that the manager gets a positive reaction from the players after Monday night's calamity!

Paul Cherrington
34 Posted 18/04/2024 at 14:45:10
I'm not sure it's people defending Dyche so much as people starting to realise that it's not actually the manager's fault – whoever it is who's been in charge for the last few years. Our problems stem from a sub-standard squad of players in the main who are not true Premier League quality allied with poor recuritment from the DoF.

Don't forget we have been struggling for a while before Dyche was boss so it can't just be him. Look at all the managers we have had who have ultimately failed in recent times. They can't all be bad managers – the common demoninator is poor players to choose from and put on the pitch. Ancelotti is showing this now he has players who can actually pass to one another at Real Madrid, as is Silva at Fulham.

The players aren't good enough apart from a few isolated examples – that is the real issue. Whoever the manager is can't do anything about that if better quality players are not signed for him to pick.

Lampard and Silva before Dyche tried to play possession-based, attacking football and it failed. It's not as simple as saying Dyche should set us up to be more attacking and all our problems are solved. We actually have created plenty of chances in lots of games this season but just lack the ability to take them.

I know Dyche picks the team, the formation and the tactics etc but it's not as easy as saying "Let's switch to playing X,Y or Z formation" – if the players are no good. It still won't work.

Yes, he could be more open to rotating who players but will bringing Chermiti, Warrington or Dobbin in make a whole lot of difference really? Whoever he goes for is basically the same quality as who is being replaced so it doesn't really affect anything.

A good analogy is looking at F1 and imaging that Verstappen is made to drive a clapped out Ford Cortina for the rest of the season, thus finishing last in every race. Is he suddenly a terrible driver who doesn't know what he's doing? Or is it just that what he has to work with is a load of rubbish and not competitive with his rivals?

Mike Hayes
36 Posted 18/04/2024 at 15:05:07
Everyone can see it's his piss poor judgement of making substitutes at the right time, playing Young and Coleman on the right side and expecting them to defend against pace – knife to a gunfight.

Playing 4-4-1-1 and not getting balls into the box - over 40,000 fans at home can see this and 3,000 away plus anyone watching via streams and listening in the radio.

Try a 3-5-2 or a 4-3-3 – we lose fucking games anyway. I have no confidence once I see Young and Coleman (great servant) play in a 4-4-1-1.

Soren Moyer
37 Posted 18/04/2024 at 15:27:47
If there isn't someone at the club that could better Dyche's abysmal record of 1 fucking win in 15 games!, then this club deserves to be in League One.
Ray Jacques
38 Posted 18/04/2024 at 15:29:29
The manager of Everton is irrelevant. The club is a basket-case owned by a nutter, dreamer and fantacist who was set up by the late Billy Liar.

I love the posts and everyone who cares and takes the time to upload as it's more entertaining than watching the team and more enjoyable.

I see Ancelotti has done it again last night, but even he wasn't good enough for some ToffeeWebbers. I recall one post describing him as the Italian Allardyce after one typical Everton capitulation when he couldn't get Godfrey to play like Cafu, or Michael Keane to resemble Maldini.

How can Dyche be sacked when there will be no money to replace him with A N Other? And no one to decide who he should be replaced by???

Sean Kearns
39 Posted 18/04/2024 at 15:35:34
Moyes is binning West Ham after this season… I know I'm in a minority but let's get him in!!

Being in my mid-30s, he has the most successful period of this club in my life. The 2009 FA Cup run was beautiful and he's had West Ham in Europe the last 3 years running.

He can lead us out in the new ground. At least just steady the ship for a few years then hand off to someone else. We are not in a position to go trying untested foreign managers.

Jay Harris
40 Posted 18/04/2024 at 15:37:27
I hate Sean Dyche's brand of football and I used to call Burnley an alehouse team under him but, to be fair, the club is rotten from top to bottom and being savaged by those corrupt bastards at the Premier League.

Allowing this takeover to go on for over 6 months is a disgrace as is the points deduction and they must be playing on the players' minds. 777 Partners should have been rejected months ago.

Selling Richarlison and Gordon compounded the lack of goalscoring ability in the squad.

Never have so many curved balls been thrown at a club in Premier League history, yet we stand a very good chance of staying up.

That will only happen if the supporters get behind the manager and the team until the end of the season, then plan some changes from top to bottom.

Ernie Baywood
41 Posted 18/04/2024 at 22:29:08
Paul, Dyche might be in an old Cortina while the Top 6 are in F1 cars. But there are plenty of Cortinas and worse in the Premier League.

Some of them are driving aggressively while we are keeping a steadily unimpressive speed hoping that others crash. Even a couple of the Robin Reliants behind us are making ground.

Our squad is crap but we're not alone in that. The squad is certainly good enough to better 1 win in 15.

The crucial part is we are clearly getting worse each week. We get less creative, less confident, less robust at the back.

Ernie Baywood
42 Posted 18/04/2024 at 22:32:02

No-one, and I mean absolutely no-one, on any thread on this site has ever, and I mean absolutely ever, expected attractive football from this team.

Talk about delusion. You're arguing against an opinion that has never been expressed by anyone.

Paul Swan
43 Posted 18/04/2024 at 23:36:54
Dyche's brand of anti-football can only ever be accepted if it produces results. At a certain point last season and the early part of this season it looked like it was.

However, for far too long now he has been sending the same failed players out with the same flawed tactics week after week with the same results.

For sure the main blame lies with the players but the coaching and tactics of the manager are abysmal. It's symptomatic of the complete shit show our club is at the moment.

Dave Lynch
44 Posted 19/04/2024 at 00:13:16
Do you not think opposing managers look at the way we set up? Managers who actually know "how" to adapt and set a team up to win?

It must be like Xmas for every other manager in the Premier League when they play us.

Kieran Kinsella
45 Posted 19/04/2024 at 01:16:18
Ray and Peter

I'm not blaming Dyche but I am saying he's actually benefited from the benefit of doubt from people like me who've long defended Frank, Carlo etc on the basis of “we can't keep sacking managers.”

And I'm not advocating his sacking as financially it's a no-go anyway. But the point I'm making is that he is greatly underperforming as well as the players, board etc.

I thought he might be punching above his weight being one positive but now I see him as just another expensive dud at our club.

Pete Clarke
46 Posted 19/04/2024 at 03:00:34
Given the amount of better players we have allowed to leave, it is amazing that we are not rock bottom. Some of those players that left were looking for a way out but others were forced out for financial reasons. Richarlison was one that was wanting out but still gave his all regardless. I think we have missed him more than any other player.

We had that 4-game purple patch when the team fought hard and were disciplined and then you think back to the Brighton demolition and so wonder why can't we do it now?

Dyche for me is losing the players and, just like the rest of the managers that have come and gone, they quickly lose faith in the players' abilities to do a good job and so we retreat into a shell.

I would argue that the pairing of young Branthwaite with Tarkowski has given us a bit of backbone, so now that Tarkowski is a bit out of form and we look to have lost the other to injury, we will struggle even more so.

Dyche has got to try and get the players' heads up and tell them to have a good go at Forest; otherwise, we will lose limply.

It's not his or the players' fault of course because we are a ship well and truly lost at sea without a captain but the minimum requirement is that they earn their high wages and give the supporters something to cling to.

Steve Brown
47 Posted 19/04/2024 at 04:02:51
I think it depends on which Sean we are talking about.

Sean 1 tried to play an expansive game for 5 matches then switched to a tight formation based on defensive shape and counter-attack / set pieces to score. He got us to 35 points and safe without the points deduction. I like this Sean, despite the style of football, as I like winning.

Sean 2 has switched formations and tactics since mid-December, but used the same players regardless of form or team shape. He has played open when we should be defensive and vice versa. He has refused to use subs until it is too late for them to impact a game and has not been able to get the defensive shape of the team working effectively in recent games. This Sean would have been sacked if we had any ownership in place.

Dyche needs to clear his head and talk with his coaching staff and the players on what were the factors that helped the team get results up to mid-December. Some supporters want him to be more attacking in the remaining games; I want him to go to a tight 4-5-1 with a focus on defensive shape and maximising set-pieces for the last 5 games.

Of course, the players are the common factor over the last 3 relegation-threatened seasons. They are poor quality, their confidence is shot and they are losing motivation.

So we can: a) Build him a statue and sack him if he pulls off survival in this turbulent season; b) Give him time to build up a new squad in the Premier League; c) Build up a new squad in the Championship.

Laurie Hartley
48 Posted 19/04/2024 at 05:06:52
Steve # 47,

“I want him to go to a tight 4-5-1 with a focus on defensive shape and maximising set-pieces for the last 5 games.” I watched Eddie Howe give Ange a boxing lesson last week. It was a tactical masterpiece.

Newcastle man-marked to make it hard for Spurs to play out from the back but, as soon as Spurs did get the ball facing the Newcastle goal, Howe had 9 men behind the ball - a row of 5 in front of a row of 4. Executed with military precision. Ange had no answer to it.

Danny O’Neill
49 Posted 19/04/2024 at 06:06:37
Interesting thread.

It's no surprise that supporters are venting their frustration. Believe me, like all who watch this current team, wherever they are, it hasn't been nice to watch.

Unless Moshiri pulls a Joker, Sean Dyche is here for at least this season. Then we review once we are safe and the takeover is sorted.

I don't know what the options would be if we chose to replace the current manager, which I'm fed up of us doing.

Some say Leighton Baines. I say don't ruin him before he's started.

I got shouted down by a friend for suggesting the Blackpool manager if we decided to make a change. I'll stand by that shout.

The Moyes supporters will be out as rumours are he could be leaving West Ham in the summer.

Ten Hag could be available. Now he may not have cut it at Man Utd, but his time at Ajax was successful and he also managed Bayern's second team.

He might be a good fit for Everton in its current state given Ajax's history for developing players. I actually suggested him a few years back when we were once again replacing another sacrificial lamb.

But for now, we're not changing managers in my opinion, so let's just focus on Forest on Sunday.

Darryl Ritchie
50 Posted 19/04/2024 at 06:21:43
Sack him, but don't bring in Moyes.

Input every bit of info about the club, the players, the opposition and the league into a super computer and let AI take over.

We won't have to pay it anything, and it can't possibly be worse than what we already have.

Danny O’Neill
51 Posted 19/04/2024 at 06:31:05
I agree on Moyes, Darryl.

Despite the matchday send-off he got, he left with bad feelings amongst a lot of supporters.

And I'm talking about a relative.

Paul Ferry
52 Posted 19/04/2024 at 07:06:28
Barry Rathbone 32 - Ernie,It's wrong because giving a manager a season or less expecting challenging, attractive football by spending buttons is the height of delusion.

One of the more bizzare statements from someone who has posted a sequence of bizarre statements, that include the gem that Dyche has "nothing" to do with results: that's right, "nothing".

First of all it's actually rather more than a season.

Who on earth said that the criteria for evaluation was "attractive football"? Who? It's results, points, position in the table, and decent and effective management.

Jesus wept, and he has the temerity and arrogance to call others "deluded"! The footy erm analyst who says a manager has "nothing" to do with results.The laziest and deflecting "argument" is "well, who could do better with these players and the card poor old really great coach Dyche has been dealt?". Utter lazy garbage.

Mr. Rathbone, you need to change your story and get out on the grass.

Joe M: "charismatic" mate! Dyche!

Robert T, always read what you write with respect. But Robert, the points deduction is not the biggest thing to blame.

First, it resulted in a string of wins and, second, I think the main thing to blame is one fecking win since the middle of December against Burnley, followed by utter humiliation last Monday, presided over by the three golf balls on the sidelines - by far the worst "coaching" crew in my lifetime - and ultimately, Dyche, who shoulders the majority of responsibility, who week in and out fails: selection, set-up, responding to the game as it develops, substitutions, and learning from one game to the next.

But, hey-ho, the skipper of the good ship SS Everton has "nothing" to do with results and sailing full steam ahead into that big fecking iceberg.

Tony Abrahams
53 Posted 19/04/2024 at 08:20:19
I think Barry should have continued his post to say a bit more about how this season has panned out for the manager and his squad, although I think I already knew what he was trying to say, Paul F.

Life has changed, but surely everyone in football haven't just become sensitive souls? If Dyche has lost the players, maybe it's because he's been the only one saying that we can't do anything about the points deduction, but just fucking get on with our job. Although this is me just putting the cat amongst the pigeons, when I read people suggesting Leighton Baines, could become our manager.

I saw Cole Palmer's reaction the other night, when someone else wanted to take his penalty, and then I remember Baines giving the ball to Kevin Mirallas because he was putting a bit of pressure on him to take the penalty. I don't believe Baines, is management material, even in this very fragile modern world.

Steve Brown
54 Posted 19/04/2024 at 08:43:29
Laurie @ 48, that is a great point.

It will also play to this squad's very limited strengths. If we have found out one thing about this group of players, it is that they cannot execute an expansive and progressive gameplan.

Whatever their merits as managers, it happened with Ancelotti, Benitez and Lampard. Dyche has come a major cropper when he has tried the same.

Why we went to Chelsea and tried to play an open game, I will never understand – get back Sean 1, Mr Dyche!

Paul Cherrington
55 Posted 19/04/2024 at 08:45:14
Ernie, I wasn't just referring to the Top 6 with my analogy. If you take an objective look at even teams like Wolves or Bournemouth, it's obvious they have a better-quality squad overall. We have people like Godfrey and Keane to call on which is why we are where we are.

Tarkowski looks like he needs a rest but can Dyche seriously risk bringing one of them into the team? Both are full of mistakes and Keane is a master at scoring in the wrong net.

Changing the manager again will do nothing, as the new one will have the same dross to work with. You can set them up however you like and with whatever tactics and instructions you like, they just aren't good enough mostly. Whoever the manager is can do nothing about that and it's the quality of players on the pitch which ultimately decides results over a season.

If it was as easy as changing manager, why hasn't that approach worked out for us yet? If it was all the manager's fault, how come no manager over the last few years can get a consistent tune out of this bunch?

Ancelotti couldn't even manage it and he is about as good as you can get. One look at the players he had to work with and he played exactly how Dyche is before jumping ship, as that's all you can do with this lot.

You could steal Guardiola from Man City for the rest of the season or any top manager in the game. With the players we have, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Tactics might change but it would still be the same players making the same mistakes because that's all we have to work with.

I've seen Dyche on the touchline in a few games and he spends a lot of his time going crazy at what the team are doing. It's clear they are not doing what he tells them or carrying out his orders a lot of the time once the whistle blows.

Even Guardiola would not be able to teach Doucoure how to pass to a teamate or control a ball. Many managers have tried before but failed because he is only good for running around a lot and nicking the odd goal.

I agree things seem to have dipped lately in terms of performance but that seems to be the players giving up again on another manager to me. Not the first time they have thrown a manager under the bus when things got tough.

I think too many now know they won't be here next season and are either saving themselves for a planned move or just can't be bothered as they won't be here. On the players again for me that.

Ajay Gopal
56 Posted 19/04/2024 at 11:46:30
It is glaringly obvious that the biggest lacuna in the squad is the lack of a reliable goal-scorer. Calvert-Lewin has fallen way behind his peers - Toney, Watkins, etc. Even the aging Antonio at West Ham is more adept at sticking the ball in the back of the net than DCL at present. And sadly, Beto seems destined to be bracketed with Rondon, Niasse, etc in the category of 'failed Everton strikers'. In this scenario, it is naive to put the blame on Dyche for our present situation. Paul Swan (43) posted "However, for far too long now he has been sending the same failed players out with the same flawed tactics week after week with the same results." Whom does he replace Calvert-Lewin and Beto with? Chermiti? Hasn't impressed me whenever he has come on. Dobbin? Yes, I am big fan of the lad, and I genuinely am surprised at how little he has been utilised after he scored that great goal against Chelsea in December. But, I understand that he has been out with an injured ankle for the past couple of weeks. So, essentially, Dyche's hands are tied. I think the players give up when either of 2 things happen (1) you keep scoring goals, but you have such a poor defence/goal-keeper that the opposition always have a chance of scoring more than you or (2) you have a great defence, but know well that you make 1 mistake and you don't have the attacking players who can help you overcome the deficit. We all know which one applies to Everton. The only way to survive this season is to get behind the players and the coaching staff, and hope that the players rediscover their pride and fight for the badge and that Lady Luck plays her part.
Barry Rathbone
58 Posted 19/04/2024 at 18:23:02
Ernie @42,

"I can't understand what part of playing dreadful anti-football without results over a long period of time wouldn't warrant a change."

Seems you want something beyond anti-football and that produces results – might that be attractive football?

Not sure what you're frothing about.

Brent Stephens
59 Posted 19/04/2024 at 19:22:55
Tony #53,

I agree entirely about Leighton Baines, Tony. A wonderful player, a great servant of the club, a tremendous person, an ideal role model for the youngsters.

Failure at the highest level would be horrible for him; I don't know how he'd cope with that possibility. Mentor the youngsters, Leighton; pass on your considerable footballing wisdom and skill; that would be a great contribution.

Danny O’Neill
60 Posted 19/04/2024 at 19:29:27
You say it in a nutshell, Brent.

Don't ruin him. Let him mentor the youth players.

Brent Stephens
61 Posted 19/04/2024 at 19:39:25
Danny, there was a clip on that YouTube thing a few years ago, posted by some young lad who was one of several young scally passengers in Leighton's car.

Leighton had been making his own way to a pre-season friendly (one of the clubs up the M65 – Blackburn, Accrington or Burnley) and, being the great guy he is, stopped to pick up three Everton lads hitchhiking to the game.

The YouTube post showed them having a good time but really over the top. Anybody else would have stopped the car and told them to do one. Not Leighton.

I found that upsetting the way he was treated – by some of our own.

Imagine a hostile Goodison. I'd rather not. Leave us with the great memories, Leighton.

Danny O’Neill
62 Posted 19/04/2024 at 19:55:34
It was Blackburn, Brent. I've watched it.

Good on Leighton.

It would make my West Midlands wife toes curl the amount of times they use the word "lad"!!

God forbid if she ever comes to an Everton match again!

I don't mind the use of 'lad', but I've never really gone with lar / lah.

Ernie Baywood
63 Posted 19/04/2024 at 20:30:18
Come on, Barry, you must be able to make sense of this.

I don't want horrible, negative, non-attacking, non-threatening, generally losing football.

That doesn't mean I'm saying we should play attractive football.

I think we should be actually attempting to land a glove on teams. I don't care if we do that in the most agricultural of styles. Load up around Calvert-Lewin and play "long and strong' as opposed to the 'long and quit' game we play under Dyche. Play narrow and make games horrible, as opposed to picking wide players who can't do that job.

Someone earlier mentioned Calvert-Lewin falling behind his peers such as Watkins and Toney. Let's not forget that they are his peers. That's his level. We have a striker who can do a bit. But our Number 9 plays in a team that has abandoned the ball.

Someone else mentioned that Guardiola couldn't teach Doucoure to control and pass a ball. That's true, but he also probably wouldn't play him in a number 10 role - the worst number 10 I think there's ever been in the league.

There are options in this team. There are players who can perform when we play to their strengths. Instead, we've just given Pickford, Tarkowski and Braithwaite the chance to show what they're about when our backs are against the wall.

We needed to try things months ago. Now it's done and we simply need to hope we can pick up a win at home to Forest. I'd go as far as to say that I think win or lose in this one determines our fate and it's 50/50.

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