Calvert-Lewin impasse isn't doing anyone any favours

I can't see why he can't sign a 1-year contract extension say with a release clause of, say £25M. Everton have to accept that offer. After all Everton have stood by and nursed him for a lot of years.

He either needs to sign or leave, because it's going to get very ugly for him from the stands if he stays and stinks out the joint.

If he rips it up for the first few months of the season, the approach of the January window could heat up the market for him.

And if we're winning some games and providing him with some service at that point, he might have a renewed interest in working out an extension.

It could just be that both sides are in wait-and-see mode.

He's had potential but hasn't really delivered on it. Has some history with his club but so have a lot of other players. Has a loyal fanbase (who can't see past him) but he really isn't all that good compared to others in his position.

He has a conflated sense of his value but currently there aren't many (any?) in the market who see that same value as he does.

Currently sitting in limbo optimistically waiting for offers from a suitor to give him lots of money for limited return… Hmm, Everton that!

I can't see where he would go, but I guess he and his agent will be on the phone. I don't see him ousting Ollie Watkins at Villa. Newcastle maybe, but they have a lot of forward options. West Ham?

Then again, nothing in football surprises me so he could end up at Old Trafford.

He scores a couple of goals and not only is all forgotten, but an England place is mentioned too. If he is playing hardball, he is doing himself no favours either as who is going to buy a striker that may, play, and may score a goal if he feels up to it and fit ?

These guys are paid very handsomely, a moderate Lottery Win weekly, to score goals or play to a particular strength, yet falsely start to believe they are superhuman!

What he is lacking is an ability to beat a defender or shoot from distance. All our recent managers have him playing on his own up front where his chances of using his best attributes are limited. Hence lack of goals.

One option is that Everton could play hardball and leave him on the bench, this would cost the club his transfer fee but also limit his negotiating stance for the type of club and contract he believes he is worth.

In the meantime, Kevin should be lining up a replacement striker and Sean should show some faith in Chermiti.

Everton have more than enough matters of deep concern off the park and don't need the squad to be impacted by additional negativity. Clear minds to start this season and players who want to play for Everton.

This could get toxic but hopefully it won't.

No doubt his bank account would be best served by seeing out his contract with us and then signing as a free agent with a club who pay him a bumper signing fee in lieu of transfer fee next summer. The Ross Barkley way.

Of course he is entirely entitled to do that. But he's spent the best part of his career at Everton and to leave in such a mercenary way would likely dictate the way he's remembered by the fans and tarnish his legacy.

Calvert-Lewin is 4th in Everton's all time Premier League goalscorers and could very likely take over Lukaku at top spot if he stayed another season or two. He's 13th on the post war list, one behind Ferguson (with 20 less games) and nine behind Cottee.

He's been the punchbag for a few dissatisfied fans over the last few years (as have most players) and I think this has had an effect on him but his contribution has been significant and deserving of recognition. In an age of expensive flops, he has been one of our best signings.

If he leaves for a good fee, I think he can go with his head held high and deservedly being held in the similar regard to Ferguson and Cottee. If he sees out his contract and hence deprives the club of a much needed £20-25M, then he will have feathered his nest (which no-one could begrudge him) but it's unlikely he will be remembered with a great deal of fondness and is more likely to be mentioned in the same breaths as Barkley and Lescott.

I sympathise with this lad and would like to challenge a couple of your points.

You say the club stood by him through injuries and poor form. That is a grievance which seems to be gathering legs among the faithful. For me, it's a claim which simply isn't true.

We know many of his health issues were actually caused or exacerbated by his willingness to play while injured.

We know risks were taken by desperate managers who knew that, despite spending £200M searching for players to give us goals, he has remained our biggest and sometimes only threat. Rafa played him with a broken toe, for fuck's sake.

I would suggest he has played through a lot more pain than the fans who are now demanding "loyalty" would have been prepared to do.

DCL was regarded as one of the hottest properties in football when Carlo was here. I would suggest that, due to employing awful managers, the desperate situation the club was in, and our inability to sign decent strikers to step in, the club often left itself with no options... And by repeatedly playing him before he had recovered, we actually causedthe injuries rather than stood by him through them.

As for sticking by him through poor form? Was this really the club supporting the player, or was it the fact that, no matter how his form suffered, he still remained comfortably our best option?

Football isn't the real world and, if professional footballers got paid what they were actually worth, half of them would have window cleaning rounds on the side.

We have offered him an improvement on his current £25M contract. If this was simply about money, surely he would already have signed?

I hope he finds a club where he can be happy. I hope we can get £20M or so before his contract expires and we get nothing but, even if that happens, will we really find a player who will score goals with that £20M? All known previous would suggest otherwise.

Would he be bothered if he tarnished his legacy given he's scored some important goals, especially the one that kept us up?

He can go and do that elsewhere but, as has been said, no one is knocking the door down to offer him the type of deal he wants.

This could be a 10.59 pm job — but I think, due to lack of options, he'll run it down and. if that happens, at least he'll have to put in a half-decent season... he doesn't seem a sulky Billy Bigtime.

We are at a critical stage now and club and player need to sort out a compromise quickly. If we fail to do so, history has shown that this will not turn out well for the club or the player. All this is such a great shame since he seems a really nice lad, and he is certainly the only Premier League striker we have on the books at present.

In this data-driven world we are in, I can't say I'm surprised when you look at his numbers. If this so-called stand-off continues and he goes a few games without scoring, I can see the natives turning even more restless than they are normally towards our Number 9.

I am only speaking for the majority of fans who sit by me and he is already not very popular, unfortunately.

I do not see this ending well for anyone.
I hope I am wrong.

What exactly does he think he's achieved at Everton that makes him desirable? We've been carrying him for two years.

He had a great season under Ancelotti and barely touched the ball since. Get shot.

I hope he stays, we play better with him in the team. However, I reckon some team will take a punt for the £20M mark. I just hope we get someone in to replace him.

If he is playing hard ball, or being difficult with Everton or a potential new club by not agreeing terms, that's his problem.

For me, he should stop being awkward and just sign the Everton contract and start banging in some goals.

Written himself into Everton folklore? Not for me. He's not Bob Latchford, he's not Graeme Sharp.

I don't care if he stays or goes. As a Premier League striker, he is simply average. A legend in his own head.

I can take him or leave him. Is that not the truth?

Everton have put a good offer on the table. Tell him he has until Monday 11 August to sign it or the offer is withdrawn — and make it clear that we will then be signing a new centre-forward who we plan to start games with in his place.

DCL would still be a useful squad player, a great option from the bench. That would give us the option of then trying to sell Beto back to Italy or allow Chermiti to develop on loan perhaps. Does DCL want to be a sub until January? We could try and sell then albeit at a reduced amount.

We need to do what's right for Everton as the prospect of selling on 30 August and being left with the ball bouncing off Beto's shins is frightening. Beto gives his all, has pace and an eye for goal but to get the best from him we'd have to play differently, balls through the channels and over the top to run onto, which I doubt would happen. He'd be expected to play with his back to goal, holding it up, which he struggles to do.

DCL has scored some iconic goals, notably Palace and Liverpool last season, but I doubt there will be any long standing legacy memories. He will never be a No 9 great in the legend list of Dean, Lawton, Hickson, Royle, Latchford, Gray etc.

I hope he stays. However, if he doesn't want to sign, act quickly and replace him.

It's strange we get hung up on wages at our club, every player should be on a basic salary with bonuses on appearances, goals scored etc; Calvert-Lewin would be a poorer man if the current contract was set up that way.

Calvert-Lewin has done nothing to justify the £130k wage. I would look to use him as part-exchange — sound out Leeds for Gnonto: offer DCL and £5M or £10M etc. I believe Ineacho is available on a free.

We're looking to sign him up on the best deal for us, or ship him out at the right price.

Looks to me like both sides are inflating their positions here.

He's a good player, when he stays fit and when he gets the service. If he gets the service from the new players, it'll be up to him to get the goals to justify the pay rise from us, or the bumper deal sideways move that might suit both sides.

If he stays to run down his contract and gets another injury, then, even as a free agent, he is hardly likely to secure a major signing-on fee or improved terms. He is integral to Dyche's system so I hope he stays as Beto is not the replacement we thought we were buying.

For all his faults, he is still our best option. We are not going to find a 15- or 20-goal-a-season striker for £20M, every team in the Premier League is looking for that and failing.

Even if we offload Holgate, Keane and Maupay, we are unlikely to receive fees that will secure such a player. Best scenario: he re-signs, the crowd get behind him, and he starts banging them in.

Personally, I think Everton will be his biggest club career. He's not moving to anywhere bigger and he is also very fortunate we are offering him a new contract.

Expect this to drag on to deadline day if he ends up moving.

I'm quite intrigued as to who would sign him? He's a good player, but in the new Top 8 (Newcastle and Villa added to the usual suspects), I cannot see a definite role for him in any club. West Ham? Fulham? Do they represent a step up?

Yes, Derek Knox, loyalty in football is unique only to fans. For owners and directors, it's business… and for players and coaching staff, it's employment. Calvert-Lewin is driving home that message.

ps: I really like him and hope there's a way he'll stay and will reconcile his differences with the club.

Our options? Maupay: never going to work. Beto: just not good enough a footballer. Chermiti, in a year or two perhaps… so, no one close. To replace him with someone better than what we have is probably £50M plus.

Having said all that, if he doesn't want a new contract, then it's sensible given the financial situation he is sold. But it's a three-way dance, the deal Calvert-Lewin can get from a new club, the sale price the club can get, and finding a club willing to meet both.

It's ridiculous to freeze him out of the team because he doesn't want to stay, we need the best players on the pitch, not a second string attempt so reminiscent of post-Lukaku. We haven't got a spare £50M to just go buy a replacement at this point. We can't afford to cut our nose off to spite our face.

We live with the fact that he is more likely to see out his contract and, in doing so, he is backing himself to have a good year and find a new club.

Personally, given his recent history and short life of his current contract, getting more than £25-30M this window is highly unlikely. Even if we did sell, we would have to find double what we get for his replacement!

He is a far better footballer and on his day, striker, than any replacement we currently have. What drove me mad last season was the lack of wing play and crosses resulting in chances for him. That has hopefully been rectified and it would be nuts to drop him when we finally source a supply.

If Calvert-Lewin couldn't agree wages with Newcastle then that's not a sign that he is screwing us over. I feel that there's a lot of fan bias going on here:

He is approaching his peak years and probably his last big contract. From his point of view, if he gets this next move right, he can propel himself back into England reckoning.

Everton are a basket case at the moment. A disaffected owner, an inability to sell the club (which means interim directors and a sparse transfer budget), plus barely enough established squad players to name a proper squad of 22…

Other than the new stadium, what do we have to offer players — either incoming or those on their way up, eg, Branthwaite (who will leave next summer).

Calvert-Lewin, rightly or wrongly, thinks he can play at a higher level than fighting relegation year-in & year-out. He has 12 months to find an appropriate deal. Blame the Bosman ruling…. it's not DCL's fault.

And for those saying we stood by him during his injuries across 2 years well we've stood by much bigger wasters (Dele, Drenthe, Van der Meyde) who gave us much much less. Also, DCL got injured playing for us (and that idiot Rafa) — that's not his fault.

If we set him an ultimatum, then he won't be remotely fussed — and all it does is drop his fee to the point where the offers would come in at around £15M. We'd be daft to take such a low bid so it's an empty ultimatum.

As I mentioned on another thread, the only strikers who scored more than 15 last season were Watkins, Solanke, Mateta, Isak and Haaland.

Cunha (£50M), Hojlund (£70M) and Nunez (£80M) only just got into double figures — all playing for much better attacking outfits. Evan Ferguson of Brighton is a cracking player, would cost upwards of £50M — but scored 6 in 27 games last season.

Tammy Abraham keeps getting mentioned as a much better goalscorer but, playing for Roma at the top end of Serie A, he's managed:

2023-24 (Roma): 1 goal in 8 games
2022-23 (Roma): 8 goals in 38 games
2021-22 (Roma): 17 in 37 games
2020-21 (Chelsea): 6 in 22 games

Remarkably similar to Calvert-Lewin...

The idea that there is a ready/made player out there nailed on to score more than 12 goals for us next season is pretty far-fetched but that seems to be what is expected. I mean, it is possible but would involve someone hitting modest goal figures in a weaker league suddenly springing into life in the Premier League. And we've seen how that plays out in less fanciful realities with players like Tosun and Beto.

Calvert-Lewin is a good striker — but not a top notch striker. His skill set would be a real asset for many Champions League clubs (see ex/Stoke star Joselu winning the Champions League for Real Madrid last season) — but as an option from the bench.

Ideally that should have been his role for us but the predictably idiotic spending of 2016 to 2020 means that he's been forced to play through injury a lot of the time and forced also to plough a very isolated furrow as the lone striker in a crap side. We've had no credible alternative for many years.

As Harry Kane (arguably the world's best striker) found out in summer under the criminally thick use of brilliant players by Southgate, it's hard to look good in a side with terrible wing / full-back play and no pace in behind.

But there are plenty of players we could buy to develop into a better player than DCL — all aged between about 17 and 22. It's good that we have Chermiti on the books because he is promising. Broja and Fofana of Chelsea could become better than DCL (they have more about them as footballers) but they all need a few seasons to get there.

Want a better striker than DCL? How patient is everyone feeling?

I'm surprised he's lasted this long and I don't see any other clubs rushing in.

I think he has been a decent striker and benefitted hugely from the influence of Carlo Ancelotti, who told him stay in and around the box and don't take a touch — just head it or hit it first time.

I read a few weeks back that he was bemoaning the fact that the supporters didn't have a song for him like they have with other strikers; even though not very good, Beto has a song, so maybe that rankles a little.

I have said for a while, you should never be in a position at a club were you let a player run down his contract. Everton are contracted to pay him till next summer whatever, unless they can do a deal with another club.

We are struggling for money and, with no new owner ready to take over, we may have to sell Calvert-Lewin for way below our asking price, but that's what happens when you allow players to enter the last 12 months of their contract.

I hope he stays after signing a new contract; I doubt he will. I don't think Dominic has an enlarged ego, he is just looking after his best interests for, most probably, his last big contract.

As a fan, I want what is best for Everton; I think we will come off second best in this case.

As already mentioned, there's plenty of time for another club to come in for him before the window closes. Then it's up to him to decide what's best for him.
In any case, we desperately need the other ‘strikers' to start putting chances away.

If he does choose to run down his contract, then it might be a bad decision, especially if Dyche strikes gold and improves us with him on the bench most weeks.

There have been many occasions where he looks like he couldn't score in a brothel, but he never lacked effort, I don't see why he wouldn't put a shift in this season.

He is important to how we play, however strong target men who are injury prone and have a poor scoring record are not going to cost the earth. I'm sure Robert or Sam could list a dozen affordable players who have suffered badly through injury and score under 10 goals a season.

Also, how is Chermiti going to get better unless he is playing regularly?

A release clause as some have mentioned might be the answer, giving the club a set fee they can plan for, but he should be upfront and honest in his intentions ( not saying he hasn't been ) but the cat and mouse game only benefits him and is to the detriment of club.

I would rather get someone in (not easy I know) who is young, hungry, wants to play and establish himself as a household name without it make him think he is 'The Incredible Sulk' !

The issue is why would a buying club now offer, say, £35m when the contract situation might result in Everton selling for £20m or so in a few weeks - or £15m in January - or nothing at all next summer?

Everyone is waiting to see what happens and, frankly, to see how desperate we are. At this stage, I would think it's 50 / 50 whether we sell or whether he stays and leaves for free next summer.

I'd be amazed if he signs a new contract because we (hopefully) won't agree to the £130k contract. Whilst DCL can fairly expect parity with a teammate like Doucoure - the real issue is that we are stupid to be paying such a limited player as Doucoure £130k pw. We can't afford it and the ridiculous wage bill has been harming the club very much.

For context, although £130k pw is an obscene amount of money it isn't hugely out of line with the market. West Ham pay each of Zouma and Ings £125k pw and Areola is not far behind on £120k pw. Lloyd Kelly gets £150k pw at Newcastle. Vardy gets £140k pw at Leicester. Lucas Digne gets £120k pw at Villa.

DCL's current wage of £100k pw puts him on a par with such superstars as Eddie Nketiah, Matt Targett, Carney Chukweumeka, Raul Jiminez, Reiss Nelson, Dean Henderson and Tyrone Mings.

And if he feels like topping up his tan, he could go and get a wage in Saudi like Mitrovic (£450k pw), Neves (£300k pw) or Diaby (£285k pw)...

All I'd say is that the club's job now is to prepare for, and budget for, the worst case scenario, not ‘hope' for the best.

On a personal level, I've always felt Dom got harsh, excessive criticism from some fans - that's the kind of thing that makes players want to leave. The boos when he fractured his cheek bone putting his head in where it hurts might have been a turning point.

That I think leaves Aston Villa playing as a deputy to Oli Watkins, a cheap deal to Tottenham or moving abroad. He's made his mind up to leave us.

Short term losing Dom is going to hurt. He's our best striker on the books, and now he's over his injury issues, I'd tip him to score 10-15 goals this season. His knockers will point that he's done little since Carlo, but I still back him.

But I am not surprised no one has signed him. £130k a week on a 4 year deal is £27m - add in the £35m transfer fee and that's £62m commitment on a lad that could be one injury away from retirement.

The comment on signing a 1 year extension is how many will feel. Sadly his agent will be looking for his best deal. Loyalty don't live in football anymore.

It's quite possible, he just doesnt fancy another 12 months of that. I'm sure he knows his own playing limitations, and who knows exactly what salary him and his agent is asking for? £130K a week has been touted in the press, but how do they arrive at that figure. Pure guesswork.

If he leaves, he goes with my best wishes, probably our best value player in the last decade, costing £1.6m, when you look at the absolute dross we've bought during that period.

Playing him could undermine whatever team spirit Dyche has built up.

I would bench him and let Beto and chermiti have a chance.

Walking away on a free transfer just as the club moves into an iconic new stadium just about sums up the modern footballer.

Derek strikes a cord. Only us blind blue mice and Seamus know loyalty to Everton!

And Dave Cashen put together a great post. Injuries are part of football. It happens to most player. Says me who has a dicky shoulder, lower back and has broken both legs and ankles as well as doing my ligaments. I'm just waiting for the arthritis to kick in!!

I would never knock a player for injury. For those romantics, remember how much time Duncan Ferguson spent out. And going back further, Adrian Heath, on the brink of an England call up only to get clattered and didn't play again for nearly a season.

Dominic wasn't born into Everton like many of us and like in any walk of life, has to look after his career.

As long as he is in an Everton shirt, he's got my support, however long that will be for.

He is a paradox at Everton, certainly our best forward and certainly not that good. Our reliance on him has held us back when we should have been diligently looking for his replacement we were sat with our fingers crossed that he would come back fit and firing on all cylinders.

Well, he came back fit.

Everton are always poorer without him in the side and that will continue to be the case next season if he leaves - Beto, Chermiti or Maupay to fill the gap? I have seen no evidence of this from their performances. Chermiti has potential but he would do better to go on loan.

Dominic holds all the cards and will not stay or move unless he gets the right offer. His wage demands will definitely be met if he leaves on a free next season. It is in Everton's interests to try to conclude this in the next few weeks. Personally, I would match his wage demands as will cost far more to replace him. At least we will know then where his mindset is.

After all, we pay Doucoure £130,000 a week to track back, pass to the opposition and lose the ball.

We don't have any full-backs or wingers who do that. That is why he wants out. Can't blame him really.

Nonetheless if he wants out best let him go complete focus is needed at this knife edge of a club. Any suspicion of slacking could cause dressing room unrest and before you know it players are punching each other in the gob on the coach to Villa. In the twinkling of an eye we're half way to relegation.

Enjoy your loot Dom.

That is all fine and within the bounds of acceptable behavior, this is business. Unfortunately, DCL depends on Dyche, perhaps the ultimate pragmatist. Should Dyche begin to see a player who hasn't had his head turned as much as turning his own head, he could get fucked out of his wage premium. Dyche would rather play a second best in better current form with an eye on future chemstry that has never developed with DCL.

Now, one can argue that DCL has not been well served recently and that is fair. But on the other side of that, why the hell couldn't he and Richy ever develop into a sum greater than the parts? In my opinion,DCL is playing himself into a difficult set of expectations. Suppose he gets his move to better placed club, if he misses chances similar to his misses in our shirt, his career trajectory tops out and he joins the forgotten.

Your move young man.

But we don't have a good enough replacement to do that, but that's down to Thelwell and his dud buys. We can't afford to have any disruption to the season. Incentive to Calvert-Lewin, Gucchi handbags, one a month and a complete collection of schoolgirl uniforms from around the world, if he signs — now he won't turn that down.

Commencing countdown, helmet on.😀

Speak to any club that has shown interest and offer to reduce the transfer fee by 8-10M, the wage difference over a 4-5-year contract which might get Everton something other than a player out of contract in a year's time, although it may get the buying club an upset dressing room.

His replacement? I'd like to see Chermiti and Ndiaye playing alongside each other going on what others claim to know of them albeit I've not seen much of one or anything of the other.

The whole thing appears to be a symptom of Everton's disastrous wage policy over the years and wasn't there something similar with Barkley being payed less than other midfielders at the club.

I also doubt his decision not to resign with us is actually just about money

On a free he arguably is worth it. I would take risk and if no acceptable bid of £20m plus comes in keep him until
January / he will need to put himself in shop window and we could benefit. I don't see his value dropping more than £5m between now and January.

I suspect he will be sold by end of this window and suspect he will not want to start season without a big fat contract of somebody - this is his last bumper pay day - good luck to him.

If he wanted to leave full stop I'd understand but asking for a £135k minimum to stay? After all the club has done for him during his injury spells? That just seems greedy to me. He's already on around £5m a year so hardly in the poor house and he would know the club is not in a great financial situation.

I'd just sell him tbh. Even if he signs a contract I think he'll just get slated from the stands.

If Doucoure is on £130k, I can't see why Dom doesn't get his deal, for two reasons: Beto isn't the answer, and how much would it cost to replace him?

I know clubs are interested, of course, but the club have let the situation get to the point where the player holds the aces now.

No one Is lining up to pay £25M because they can get a much better price later on. I don't think he will sign again for us.

It's probably his last big contract and maybe he just wants a new challenge. If it was a loyalty thing, he would signed already.

Get what we can.

Yet, once more there is a sizeable section of our fanbase that never miss an opportunity to decry him or ridicule him for his lifestyle. They ridicule him for it, insinuate, and take every opportunity to put him down.

8 years. 8 years he has given us, cost us virtually nothing.. I'm not surprised that he's been in a dark place with comments like that.

Is the fact that his lifestyle is not what many would like to see? Is this why, despite all his efforts, he is not the name you want to see on the back of your son's shirt?
It's quiet but blatant non-acceptance by many of something they don't want to acknowledge, that they are not worthy of looking up to.

It can be a very simple game.

We don't have anyone better to lead the line the way Dyche sets the team up. I don't think there's even anyone better in the entire league who can play in that set up.

Maupay can be moved on to subsidise his increase. He doesn't fit the system anyway so needs to go.

I'm looking forward to the season. Whether Dominic is part of that remains to be seen. I think he'll play for us until at least January and I hope he gives us a few more Palace / derby moments.

I hope he can come to an agreement with the club as we are a better team when is playing.

Who knows maybe he will score more with our new recruits in the side.

I have become very disillusioned with modern life, because people generally go past the symptom, and overlook what contributes to the problem in the first place.

Dominic Calvert-Lewin was playing with a broken toe and this has probably contributed to him suffering a much worse injury.

He was rushed back time after time, because of the total unprofessional route (imo) that our club had put themselves on, having only one genuine centre-forward on the books, and continued to break down because of this.

He's not the best player who has ever played for Everton but he his definitely one of the most important players we have had at the club for years, simply because he his the only centre-forward who is good enough to lead the line whilst playing as a solitary striker.

I don't watch pre-season but I looked at the highlights yesterday and the thing that struck me just before Dominic took the penalty was how physically lean he looked.

I hope he stays but I expect him to leave and, depending on which club he joins (one that doesn't need him to play every game), I would also expect him to be a massive success.

I'm struggling with this repeated claim of "After all the club has done for him" (DCL)

Rather than causing and exacerbating his injuries by playing him when he was seriously injured and bringing his pay closer to non-contributing superstars (after years of paying him relative pittance). I have to ask. What is it the club has done for him?

No player is bigger than a club, certainly not ours, but in these dark times of appalling/none management. When free loaders have prospered, we have 1-2 players and a manager who have done more for the club than the club have done for them.

For me, DCL is one of those players, although I am here to learn if somebody wants explain this claim to me.

I see it the same as you mate. The long term fitness of many players over the years has been sacrificed to help the club avoid relegation.

Dominic is anything but a ponce and I wish him well if he ends up playing elsewhere. If he does, Everton will be worse off.

I'd really like people who use the snidey term "Dycheball" to come on here and define the term.

Or just be honest and say they don't like our manager.

I think he appreciates what being the Number 9 means to Everton and 'gets' Everton. However, 'getting' Everton can only get players so far before they feel the grass may be greener elsewhere.

As I have mentioned in the past in relation to other players potentially leaving, if they are ambitious and want to play at a higher level for better-managed clubs (on and off field) with infinitely better players with a much greater chance of winning trophies whilst earning more, then why wouldn't they take a chance.

I sometimes think how many ToffeeWebbers have considered leaving their own employment to work elsewhere for whatever reason, dislike for current employers, better career prospects, more money etc but stay with their current employers out of loyalty. How many of us have the chance to know what working with the new company will be like, the ethos and work environment. Most of us will only know what the HR team or immediate boss at interview stage

are all about, but no idea as to what the new colleagues will be like.

Football and other teams are different. If for example, if Man City were to come in for a player, that player already knows enough about the club to make an informed decision, at least on the playing side.6

Dominic is now a parent so will also no doubt be thinking family first and the family support network available to him and his partner. I believe his partner is Swiss so whilst there are no local ties meaning he could potentially go most places, my expectation would be he would stay in the North somewhere. If his own parents and family are still around Sheffield he hasn't got many clubs to choose from and going a bit further south there is only Villa.

If the partner is family-oriented and prefers to be based in Switzerland, he could potentially choose a German or Italian club.

If he stays at Everton, on a new, extended (but with the opportunity to leave after a year) or current contract, I would expect him to fully put the effort in. I don't think Dominic is the type to be lazy and do the bare minimum.

Good luck to him either way.

SD definitely has his own style, personally I like him (late subs aside) and think he has been the right guy for us and possibly for the future too.

I endorse Christine's post (and others of a similar opinion) that DCL has been a good servant of the club, he is a very good hold up no 9 and he improves our side. I will be sad if he goes.

The bigger issue for me (as always) is not the quality of Dom's play, nor a question of his character, nor what he chooses to do in his own time but once again to question why is it always Everton fans who feel the need to treat its better players this way? There is underlying malaise, a toxicity that continues to erode our wonderful club, how do we stamp it out and fucking get behind our players?

Balls over the top from the defence, deep crosses from the fullbacks, they got the ball forward quickly to their attackers.

I guess that was Kloppball.

Re your last para, point well made.

I appreciate they are rhetorical questions so I'll leave it to others to debate the answer!

Nothing snidey or derogatory. Not to me anyway.

I don't think that Calvert-Lewin will not be selected. He has been selected in the past to keep up his value for transfer. I can't see that changing.

In the possible transfer to Newcastle, he saw that Everton were prepared to sell, so I think this has affected his attitude, just like it has come as a shock to previous players in a similar situation.

I do think that Beto and Chermiti have been better developed than Calvert-Lewin at previous clubs in basic skills and would develop more if selected more. All these players have been affected by changes and continuing chaos at basket-case Everton.

Thelwell and Dyche are doing the best they can against an uncertain background. They are heading in the right direction with these players.

"Dycheball = the way Sean Dyche sets his team up."

I still don't know what you mean. What do you mean by "sets his team up"? 4-2-3-1? 4-5-1? High defensive line or otherwise? Long ball? Passing game? Channelling the opposition down the flanks?

I suspect he has agreed terms with them, but that the loveable Geordies are looking to shave £10M off the fee by telling him to sit tight until the end of the month.

I don't blame him at all for looking elsewhere after the toxic negativity that's directed at him. Players move and talk of loyalty and wage demands are irrelevant. We sign players from other clubs, we don't question them in that way do we? There are very few Seamus Colemans in professional football nowadays.

The game is ridiculous in terms of sustainability and all players are obviously going to milk the cash-cow that our clubs have become.

In terms of business, we simply have to cut our cloth accordingly; if Dominic doesn't accept the offer on the table, then the club simply has to get out of him what they can.

Outside the box, he's better at looking after the ball than most top strikers, and can take it down channels like Watkins.

Another I don't know why but think with the two new Number 10s brought in by both Dyche and Thelwell now they have the funds to change the squad to what they want this summer. The ball will stick closer to the penalty box on the deck, which gives time for a player to make a run outside and put the ball into the DCL zone this season more than last season. All the strikers should benefit.

Even if DCL goes in January, I don't think his value will drop as I think more chances will be created this season 10 yards from goal, so he will be in higher demand in January.

Even better if he signs a new contract as prime Dom nipping in front of the last defender as a cross fizzes across the penalty area is a lovely sight for all.

2008-2011 we scored 166 goals over the 3 seasons. Saha 26; Yak 10; Anichebe/Vaughan 3; Beckford 8; Jo 5 = 62. So almost 2 out of every 3 goals were scored by midfielders or defenders such as Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar, Osman, Lescott and Coleman.

We have done it without a centre-forward in the past, we can do it again.

He is at a turning point in his career. For a brief period, he looked to be a very handy striker… but not so much, now, regardless of the cause, and he has a very poor recent injury record, again regardless of the cause.

One of these factors would mitigate against his transfer and wage value; both put a serious dent in them. In our case, I could see down the line that a decision now to pay top dollar for a player prone to injury might be seen in the future as repeating the mistakes of the past.

Arguably his best hope of realising the wages he wants is to play like the striker he once was for the first half of the season and stay clear of injury. That has the happy corollary of increasing his transfer value so that the sum we could get in January might be no less than what someone was willing to risk today. Because he is a risk, for any club, not just us.

This would be much less of an issue if we hadn't signed an apparent dud in Beto. Chermiti, I have higher hopes for but he is still very inexperienced at this level.

I don't want either as they are not good enough to take us forward. One apparently is a nice bloke and the other is a snidey sod by all accounts. Double standards apply everywhere on this site.

Get real, people: Calvert-Lewin is finished with us. He wants a move to get a last big pay deal. There's no one banging down the door looking for him. That says a lot.

Maupay… is just Maupay. Find someone hungry for goals who knows what a bulging net looks like. People here trying to recapture the past but the past hasn't been great since the '80s.

But I thought we showed a lot more movement and intent, some good link up and players showing for the ball.

Dom did well didn't he? Slotted away a decent penalty, fed O'Brien beautifully… what's not to like about that?

Roma will be a different test for sure, but things are starting to shape up with players coming back and new boys settling in.

I think he can still be good for Everton this season if he stays fit and stays with the club.

However, soccer is a business and money talks so, if the right amount is offered, then he will be gone.

Sometimes a manager has to change his approach and the tactic of Dyche using one man up front (Calvert-Lewin) with another (Doucoure) following in behind has to be shelved as it has rarely worked out.

Beto won't improve from what we have seen but Chermiti may come good.

Everything is up in the air, so to speak, so let's see what the next few weeks bring instead of going off-topic and getting into gender discussions.

Also, he's not had a string of starts — let's give him a bit more time, I say.

From some of the descriptions on here of the recent training regime, it seems that Dyche is sorting this out.

What does “stood by him” him even mean? Like he owes us while he was injured? Players get injured all the time. What's the club gonna do? Not pay him and kick him to the curb? This narrative shows how petty Evertonians can be.

He has every right to try and better his next contact (as we would all do) but Billy Big Fan thinks he's bang out of order here.

We currently have no one on the books who can replace him. If you think he's easily replaced for £20M, you're having an absolute laugh.

Simple fact is that DCL holds all the cards here and Everton hold none. Your problem isn't with DCL, it's with Everton not finding an adequate replacement or competition for him well before this impasse.

Find a 20-goal-a-season replacement for him and then I'm okay with him leaving. If we don't, we'd better cough up the money for at least a one year extension. That or you can look forward to Beto “leading the line” and another relegation battle.

The cry will go up that he has been injured for a large proportion of that but, given his history, surely that is a possibility going forward?

I have nothing against Dom other than, IMO, he is a bang-average player.

There'll be a fair bit of wiggle room in the wage budget next summer with Doucouré, Gana, Maupay, Keane, Holgate, Coleman and Young all moving on. The figure is over £500k pw. Not to mention the £90k pw we pay Harrison on loan.

What wage budget they have remaining now needs to be offered to both Branthwaite and Mykolenko.

I gave up my season ticket seat in the Upper Bullens in the mid-90s because I was basically going to the game on my own, and after a while, I could barely cope with the utter bile and anger directed towards certain players.

The two blokes directly behind me seemed to have rather serious issues with anger management. I accept we were a poor side around that time, and I stopped going for two seasons in the hope that the mood at Goodison might improve along with the on-pitch performances. (We did win the FA Cup though !!)

Sadly, when I returned to a seat in the 97-98 season, nearer to the Gwladys Street end of the Upper Bullens stand, it wasn't a great deal better, and it seemed to me the (Lower) Gwladys Street had become more vocal in their frustrations with the team?

Maybe it was because I was nearer to the home end, but it did put me off renewing my season ticket.

The flip side of this is, of course, Everton FC having arguably the best "core" of away fans in the Premier League. I just hope that, when we leave Goodison, the "gypsy's curse" will have been lifted, and we can all contribute to building positivity in the way we support the Toffees.

However, the way some people carry on at Goodison constantly directing virtrol at the players and staff can be draining. It definitely reduces my enjoyment.

There is one lad who sits by me who must scream "You're fuckin' shit, lad" at least 50 times a game.

I have been thinking alot about this topic and wrote an article on it on here a few years back: Into the realm of hungry ghosts.

We as fans hold so much power in terms of our influence over the team's performance, positively and negatively. We all remember the big games where we dragged the team over the line.

How many remember the games where the toxicity made the players play worse and they shit the bed? Who booed Calvert-Lewin for fracturing his cheekbone? I know it was a minority but it reflected the malaise I spoke of in my earlier post... plus this is afterall a DCL thread.

I've been thinking a lot about all this as it's our last season at Goodison. Will the curse be lifted? Will we find new ownership soon?

The move to the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock represents a real opportunity for the club and fans to realign, wipe the slate clean, and reset our expectations.

Yes, we have a glorious and rich history but right now we are at best a lower mid-table team whose fans and players have been so hurt and despondent for so long.

Where do we want to be? How do we want to get there and can we unite to make us stronger to achieve it?

I believe we can with the right ownership, personally I am praying Friedkin is coming back for round 2. COYB!

To finish on a positive note (Olympic silver medallist) Tommy Fleetwood is an Evertonian!

Does Dom love Dyche as a coach?

Would he prefer to have better support than he has had. I am unsure of the answer to my first question, but confident he wishes for better service than of recent seasons.

The additions of Ndiaye and Lindstrøm could be amazing for him, allied to an in-form Dwight McNeil. Harrison has loads of improvement to show us in terms of chance creation, but maybe he will have a much improved second season too.

Maybe much maligned Beto will step up are set fire after misfiring last season.

Its a shame Chermiti has a medium to long term injury.

A fit, committed Calvert-Lewin could have his best-ever season this time if he stays. Stranger things have happened.

If he did and then left on a free that would be a snide move. Characterwise, I don't think he is snide. I think he won't shaft the club or the fans, though his agent may want him to. He is the decision-maker, not a self-interested financially motivated agent. He is big enough and ugly enough to stand on his own feet.

May those feet do the talking on the hollowed Goodison turf this season.

If the takeover happens, we have a good season, chance creation and conversion improves as it must, maybe he will sign a new deal and stride proudly toward the new Everton Stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock as our proud Number 9.

UTFT.

For the club,it will be irksome, not to say financially detrimental, if the player leaves for nothing next summer. Yet if the decision-maker, presumably Kevin Thelwell, has concluded that the player's wage demands exceed his value, to concede to them would undermine the steady progress being made towards putting the club on a sustainable footing.

For the player, there is the possibility of a poor season or worse, a serious injury eroding his value, leaving him as one of many out-of-contract players looking for a club next summer.

I don't blame Dominic for testing the water but his decision not to sign a new contract carries downside risks for him as well as the club.

Other posters have given mitigation for this but, from all I've read and seen, he is supposedly now lean and fit and our new recruits will likely provide more service to him. I guess time will now tell.

He would be a massive loss if he left in my opinion, he's 100% fit over his injury problems, Everton would be a lot poorer without him. Be careful what you wish for.

He told me that all players were only interested in pay increases, longer contracts, or transfers to clubs they had been tapped up by. All this kissing the badge etc was just shite.

He told me that, although I wouldn't notice, as a player and manager, he knew when players who wanted away and didn't get their way, they'd just mistime a tackle, just miss a header, just turn a bit slower… etc, etc, etc.

He soon learned, once a player wanted away, he got rid asap.

So, even if that was the minimum deposit, that's still £2.4M the club have taken before the stadium is even finished. I wonder how sales for the executive boxes are going?

It's a matter of what price will tempt buyers and if Calvert-Lewin will lower his wage demands if he set on leaving.

As John @149 mentions if a player wants to leave, it's not a good idea to prevent them.

Danny O'Neill, I'm sure you won't forget the game we were at when a deranged loon hurled abuse all game. It got particularly bad when Tom Davies came on. Eventually a guy, of Rob Halligan's stature, screamed at him to shut the fuck up; which he did!

I'm with John McFarlane in taking a view that booing a player at a game never achieves anything. I think the most potent abuse is stunned silence, which has been my involuntary response at the last view games I've attended!!

The ball is in his court but he should not be an automatic starter if he holds out.

If someone of Rob Halligan's stature told me to shut the fuck up, I think I'd be tempted to do just that. Mind you I'd probably do the same with someone of yours (and you know I mean no offence). 😁💙

Assuming we need to pay any half-decent forward at least say £100k pw, then we're only arguing about an extra £35k pw. So it would seem the financially sensible thing just to offer Dom a pay rise and save the cost of signing a new forward (who presumably would cost more than any fee we would get).

The unknown factor is how a £135k pw contract to Dom would affect other players, those we have now and we sign in the future. Any decent player (eg, Branthwaite) is going to ask for the same or similar terms. So it's a slippery slope once you start offering a player higher wages.

Almost all players will look to maximise their earnings (their agent wouldn't be doing their job otherwise) so it's up to the club to decide on their salary structure and stick to it. If a player can't be kept happy within the structure, then they should be sold.

If DCL isn't signing a new contract, then the club should move him on. I am sure they'll be speaking to other clubs and I think Newcastle will eventually buy him after they've managed to sell some players themselves.

I just hope it doesn't disrupt the first few games too much. The window should really close before the season starts.

He is a good target man and leads the front line very well. He's being used in totally the wrong way, ie, as a lone striker. He's always winning balls and then chasing his own flick-ons. He needs someone along side to do the chasing for him.

Time will obviously tell whether he goes or not, but I think we will be poorer without him in the team. And besides, it will cost a fortune to replace him.

Does his job, he gets his numbers.

We won 2-0.

You always get them, he was special.

The absolute priority for the club is to move to our amazing new stadium as a Premier League club, so keeping Calvert-Lewin this season would help.

I am not a massive fan myself, so thank fuck I have nothing to do with it — but I can still have an opinion — right!

For what it's worth, we had the USA centre-forward Brian McBride for a few games after some pillock re-signed the, ha-ha, "legend" Ferguson from Newcastle. I think DCL has a lot in common with him.

McBride wasn't a world-beater but from memory he scored more or less every other game for us (way better than the, ha-ha, "legend" throughout his so-called career), held the ball up well, worked his bollocks off, and went on to do well with Fulham. He was an excellent goal-scorer for the USA too.

I hope he stays, but we need more potency throughout the squad.

DCL apparently wants to move on, fair enough, but he, like so many others, is subject to personalised abuse, character attacks that attempt to ridicule the man. That he does not live up to the expectations of some is no excuse for that.

Christine, your comment struck a chord. I was always taught and used to coach, be comfortable on the ball and “see it, play it”. Most times the first pass, even the easiest, is the best one. Don't always try to go for the spectacular. Unless you are Paul Bracewell.

I'd had more than a few drinks, shouldn't have been there in the first place, and the only reason I wasn't ejected at least three times was because McBride told the stewards I was with him and he had me under control.

The reason I mention this is because he was an absolute cracker, and definitely seemed to enjoy my very truthful assessment of his time at Everton.

My assessment was very similar to Don's, although I also added that it was definitely time for him to leave when his loan expired because he looked very tired after making the step up and I thought it had caught up with him.

Be honest with people and you will get a lot more back is my motto, and my honest opinion of our squad is that we might be better letting Calvert-Lewin leave for nothing in 10 months time, than getting a paltry fee for him now.

I base this on the other forwards we have not being good enough and also because we have signed a lot of unproven players at this level; it's imperative that we have experienced players around them, and this will hopefully help them adapt to what is a very, very physically demanding league.

Brian W @169, Peter is correct, and that's why the biggest disappointment of last season was that Dominic and Beto never seemed to compliment each other when they were on the pitch together.

I'm not sure there will be 'executive boxes' at BMD — the concept seems a little out-dated now?

I believe that was why Maupay was brought in...

Unfortunately Calvert-Lewin got injured which left Maupay on his own. Perhaps it might have turned out differently for both of them if Dom had stayed fit.

The money per square metre of an executive box compared to an ordinary seat is huge. I said to the (adult) kids we have to have one last visit this season to see GP.

If we cannot get a ticket, we have a choice. I can leave you an extra £1000 in my will or you can have a trip to GP this year. Yeah, 3 tickets in hospitality is the best part of £1000.

Plus boxes mean at half-time you can have champagne served to you and your guests without having to queue.

It is our lack of corporate hospitality that has a detrimental impact on our finances compared to others.

Personally I think his value as per the Club, is a tad excessive and his wage demands also look excessive and currently he isn't worth it, in my opinion. I hope there is a way forward; however, as it would be good to see him turn out in the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock and score a couple. He ultimately deserves it.

Surely there must be a meeting of minds somewhere in the middle which suits everyone, mustn't there?

And he was doing a fashion shoot. It doesn't mean he walks round Formby like that.

But if he does, it doesn't bother me one bit. I just wish he'd score more goals.

In fairness to Michael, I think he can only reasonably moderate abuse between posters. People can and do abuse third parties, for example one post in this thread calls Trump a fuckwit. Are we asking Michael to allow abusive language about politicians and perhaps others but not footballers? Or perhaps just not our footballers? I don't think that is reasonable.

The style of football Dyche played last season demands a player or players to get by him to challange or win the second ball when he heads the permenant punts up to him from Jordan. That would include Beto when he played.

Yet that is the last thing that anyone on the pitch does. Getting far away seems to be the order. Baffling.

The issue is Calvert-Lewin cannot score. He is a poor finisher who lacks ability to lose defenders, beat keepers 1 v 1, or hit the target. We have seen the best of him.

It appears Thelwell is satisfied with the "attacking" options provided to Dyche. Considering how little Calvert-Lewin provided us with last season, I am amazed his price tag is as high as it is.

Get £20M. Lose his ridiculous salary, and either bank the money for the winter window or next season if you aren't going to replace him. From his performances so far, there is nothing to suggest he might be a massive miss.

Take £20M, lose his ridiculous salary, bank the money if you can't replace him?

I see you're not a fan of Dom, but show me a Premier League quality striker we can buy for that money, for Mickey Mouse wages, and as you say, if not, bank the money.

Oh yeah, so just play with Beto for the season; do you not worry how that would go?

I did see a photo of him in a tailored suit with long shorts and possibly a bag. But I do know I saw a photo of him on one knee on a beach somewhere giving his then girlfriend an engagement ring and one a year ago of him holding their new baby.

And there are photos of Andy Gray in a skirt. He was even on a magazine cover in one: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/UGcAAOSw5iJgLNwh/s-l1600.webp

The only frustration I hear like all of us when he soft shoots or fluffs 1:1s

I want to be a fan of him. I do. But reality got in the way. His last 3 seasons' returns in games & goals:-

2023-24: 33 & 7
2022-23: 17 & 2
2021-22: 17 & 5

Include time out for his injuries and add in wages plus medical and rehab fees etc and I don't believe he shows value for money in return. And before you Dele Alli me, that is a different argument.

At around £130k per week and with such low goalscoring returns, there are a fair few who could slot in and offer a better return. Many named on here.

What my prime thoughts are is that he is not going to sign the contract that he has been offered. Everton are not going to better it. His stats are poor. His all-round play — apart from winning the ball in the air from long kicks — is not Premier League class, therefore move him on.

My point about the money is, as the club is so bad at pre-empting by getting a replacement lined up pre-sale, at least we would have money for the following window and all systems should be looking for a striker. Not that we have bothered for decades, but hey, hope springs eternal and all that…

There is one bloke who sits about four rows behind me at the Park End, and his language is continually directed at Everton players, Dyche, the opponents, the referee, and the linesmen.

I hope that you're coming over in the near future, but in cricket terms I'm "86 not out", and it's only the chance I have to visit the Bramley Moore that keeps me going, meanwhile I will be chin-wagging at the Harlech Castle, hoping to see you soon.

His apparent off-the-pitch interests about fashion are often used a stick to beat him with by some fans. Nothing really sinister, I suppose, the theme is always about how he doesn't want to run | jump | tackle (delete as appropriate) as he's “got a photo shoot tomorrow” etc, etc, etc.

No matter what happens, his performance in the last derby will live long in my memory.

To be fair, I'd happily swap Dom for Luton's Adebayo (who out-scored Dom in a very crap Luton side). He's on about £25k pw if the internet's to be believed.

There are options if Dom leaves that would not cost an arm and a leg imo. Every player will obviously leave at some point; if we sell Dom this month, we'll move on.

Hopefully Ndiaye and Lindstrøm will chip in with goals so less pressure on the front man this season, whoever that is.

Let's try and find him a song for the Roma game and see if that does the trick; other than that, I am out of ideas.

How about the old chant we had where some chanted Celtic, the others Rangers? We could have Calvert then Lewin.

The only other one I can think of is Son Of My Father, with oh Calvert-Lewin, or the TV commercial Dom diddy Dom, diddy Dom, diddy, diddy, diddy Dom?

I give up — surely someone can come up with a song for him.

"Bom, bom, bom, bomb Esso blue"

Could easily become..

"Dom, Dom, Dom, Dom, What a blue.."

Yeah, I know, don't give up the day job...

You found someone in Kiwiland who gave you a day job? He wouldn't want to buy Everton, would he, how many sheep does he have and would it help if you told him that our second kit is all black?

"What you doin', what you doin', what you doin' Calvert-Lewin".

I'm retired, for some time now.....

The Bella Ciao one was great!

Playing fast and loose with a few carefully selected stats will appeal to a small, ready made gallery, but it wont wash with the majority who know what really happened and prefer fact with context.

You are very quick to point out that DCL played 17 games in both 22/23 + 21/22. In fact you base most of your argument on stats.

However; You carefully avoid mentioning the number of games he started when it was known he was injured (well documented if you care to research it). You also fail to mention how many of those 17 games he started before he had fully recovered and broke down as a consequence. Dyche finally put an end to this fuck-witted practice and insisted the player get fixed. properly. it took a while to undo the damage, but we started to see a return in the crucial last quarter.

You claim his stats are poor for a striker, but as an Evertonian you surely.. surely, know that we have not played with a striker since Carlo Ancelotti left.

Lyndon's article is a fair one. He does not play fast and loose with the facts. He tries to create an accurate picture with the reports which are available to him. However: He makes it very clear that they are simply reports and speculation.

Remember - Nobody has quotes from DCL himself.

Nobody has quotes from the club.

Nobody has quotes from his agent.

Nobody has quotes from clubs who he is supposed to have turned down because they couldnt match his wage demands - I`m sure we would have done, if true

We simply don't know his reasons for not signing for ANYBODY as of yet. All we have here, is unbridled speculation and a bunch of people desperately trying to be proved right.

The guy is clearly a bright lad. Could it possibly be that he knows his options will be multiplied if he simply sits tight.

Could it be that he is not prepared to risk his and his family's future by re-signing for a club which at the moment cannot even guarantee its own ?.

Could it be he or his Mrs don't fancy moving to Newcastle ?... Would you ?.

Come what may. They will be a wealthy family, Maybe they want to be a happy one too ?

There's an old Northern saying - "when in doubt do nowt"

He puts his right foot in, right foot out, in out, in out shake it all about
You do the Calvert-Lewin then you turn around
That's what it's all about.
Oh Calvert Calvert-Lewin
Oh Calvert Calvert-Lewin and so on.

Are you aware that I posted at 188 and the post you assassinate is actually a reply to Christine at 193 to highlight (not blindly fire out "playing fast & loose with a few carefully selected facts)

So I disagree its out of context. Not when it supports my previous message to anothers observations.

I pointed out raw stats over the last 3 seasons. (That is not an insignificant amount of time.) This was accompanied by adding in the INJURIES and lengthy time off. I added in his wages and mentioned that hospital, rehab fees and other that are not known all equate to him being not value for money.

If you think that in a business world where stats are facts, and money is what makes the club go round, that for Everton, this is a good vfm return from that player then I disagree. I also disagree that the majority are with you. Not that it matters.

Furthermore this negative impact of those costs factors into the clubs FFP.
Where a few million makes the difference.
He is on £6.7 m a year before bonuses or add ons.
Does this uncomfortable fact make me too scared to ask the question because it might not fit with DCL appreciation society on TW.
No.

Comparing my message to Lyndons piece is absurd.

Yes, DcL has been hampered by injuries. So does that mean his stats should be shown with caveats and somehow adjusted like points betting ?

He has rejected the Everton offer of a new contract. That is a fact.
Yes. No one has said a word. But that is what happens when they are ongoing in whatever context that might be.
However does that mean one should not ask the question ?
Then no.

In my opinion, had DCL scored more. Contributed more over the last 3 seasons then allowing him to play down his contract would be fine and good luck to him.
The bear facts are, he hasnt and we need a striker who can. So if the stalemate over a contract continues, move him on and replace him.

Do I dislike him as a person. No.
Same with all ToffeeWebbers.
We may disagree.
But that isn't spiteful.
And surely adds to the flavour of strong debate.

We all love our club.

Ps I live in Spain so Newcastle would be a sat nav malfunction rather than pre planned visit.

Granted DCL's conversation rate improved slightly in the last 10 games coming up to the start of the transfer window opening.

Just luck I supposed.

However Dyche should ask him how many goals in a season should we expect off him for a salary of £6M (£120k p/w) ? Ancellotti said he was a 20 goal a year player that would make him a £300K a goal player. Since he had 32 appearances he should have scored 10 or 11 goals not the 7 he did score. He under performed by anybody's reckoning. His true goal cost was £857k+ a goal last season.

However let us take a figure of say 15 premiership goals for 2024/25 that would be £400k a goal. So for every extra goal over 15 or every 2 assists we give him a bonus of £400k that extra 5 goals would amount to £2M or an extra 40K per game so that would equate to £160k p/w seems fair. Paid at the end of the season.

He should realise two things, one we now have a lot more fast attacking players that should increase his chances of scoring and two remember all the other forwards with his scoring records who left here disappeared after a season of two because they were no longer the main passing target.

We should show our offer to other teams if he refuses to sign.

The problem for him and Beto is that Doucouré has been playing too far behind. This season with much younger players they will both score, create and assist in more goals.

Sad but true facts. No one wanted DCL to regress post-Ancelotti. He has. For all the reasons discussed. Everton failed to bring in another striker to challenge and or cover for him.

Our owners and boards have for decades expected teams to achieve or just tread water, without any choices of centre-forwards or goalscorers.

As for Doucoure, I don't believe he is the type of player, naturally, who links up with the main striker. Even if he seems to at the beginning of a game, he switches off to the fact part way through.

The other issue is on the occasions he does get to the flick-on or second ball, the striker and at least one midfielder should be supporting him which is very hit and miss. However, with Lindstrøm, we may have that player.

I am not sure of your optimism for Calvert-Lewin providing a 14-goal return for this season, due to the missed clear chances he has fluffed in pre-season friendlies. However, I am ramping up all my positive vibes and hope he can.

Let me clear a couple of things up first.

Yes, I did know you were responding to Christine, but no I was not comparing your posts to Lyndons article - at least not intentionally. I referenced it because you seem to believe the wages Lyndon reported DCL is looking for is the same as the wages he earns now. They're not. Just about every respectable source I can find would indicate DCL is on £100k a week, not the £130k you are claiming.

Wages aside. I don't think you represent a true picture of DCL's situation throughout the past three seasons — and I think you know it.

DCL did play 17 games in both seasons you refer to, but when a player is in and out all season, I think it is safe to say he has never at any stage of that season fully recovered. He may have put his body on the line and turned out, but he broke down more times than your average Range Rover. Those seasons were a write-off.

Here is where you and I are diametrically opposed: I (and the very definite majority) respect, admire and applaud him for repeatedly putting his injured body on the line during those seasons - not to mention coming off the sick bed to score the goal which preserved our Premier League status.

You and a vocal minority (always the same people) will continue to ignore the facts and use the stats as a stick with which to beat him. You even think he should in some way be appreciative of the medical treatment given.

By insisting he got fixed properly, Dyche demonstrated he was braver than the fuck-wits who preceded him. DCL had been ill-used. He was entitled to expect that sort of care 2 years earlier.

You are a skilled debater, Martin, but I saw this player when he was actually employed as a striker under Carlo. I simply can't give any credence to the current argument (yours) that he doesn't score enough for a striker.

As everybody knows (including you, I suspect), we haven't played with a striker since Ancelotti walked out of the door.

You always reference me to a character in Bread... usually "That tart...!"

My apologies Christine.

8 seasons in the premier league and 54 goals in 214 games is not a good return.

I hope he stays because he is without doubt our best option currently considering our alternatives are Beto and Maupay it's not setting the bar too high.

It doesn't make sense.

My wife had access to such executive tickets and seats for Old Trafford. One of her bosses is one of those who holds on to them for hosting clients but rarely uses them.

She tried to get me to go last season, but it's just not me. I went in the Everton corner and she took my son and his girlfriend.

We need to expand on the ability to generate revenue and executive boxes / seats are a way to do that. For those who have been to Wolves, they have an entire side of the pitch row of boxes, right above the away supporters.

Random one. The most bizarre experience I witnessed was when we went to an LA Galaxy match on holiday. At half time a band came on in the executive box to our left and there was a party going on. They had a balcony and they were all singing and dancing. It carried on into the second half. I was trying to watch the football, but couldn't stop looking!!

Thanks again Old Boy.
And for some plaudits as well as kicks in the meat and two veg.

I wasnt comparing DCLs wages to Lyndons comments.
I hadnt even remembered that bit.
I went from a link that was related to Doucoure in another thread. Double checked on Google.
I have gone back to Google and worded it differently.
The search reveals that he could be earning anything from £86.5k, £100k, £120k or £130k a week on par with Doucoure.
Financially, it ranges from £4.5 - £6.7m a year.
Since Ancelotti we have had a striker. It was DCL.

My point is that he either hasnt been available enough or when he has been, he has regressed significantly, hence the stats.
Pre season hasnt provided me with any reason to think differently. But I really do want to.

We can say all we want about him being courageous through injury or whatever. However we are at a junction where, if he wont sign the new contract extending his present one, in my opinion, we should look now towards a sale whereby we have funds to buy, as opposed to when he runs down his contract and leaves on a free and we have 0 funds as a club in dire financial need.
Its where we are in this mess of FFP.

His stats arent great. In fact for the 3 or so seasons before Ancelotti his stats were arguably much worse than now.
Ancelotti got the best out of him that no one else can.

We have to look at the big picture.
Two great seasons under Ancelotti.
Pre and post, poor.
Factor in the chances of him remaining injury free .

His latest transfer market value is £22m.
So Everton DO clearly want him to stay, putting off suitors because they have said £35m is the least they will take.

I suspect Everton will price him out of a move.

I hear and see so many people claim "I don't dislike Calvert-Lewin", but everything they do and say would suggest the contrary. If he has a really good effort out-jumping two defenders and forcing a great save, he's missed a "good chance". A decent chance missed is an "absolute sitter".

I don't think I saw him through one-on-one with a keeper more than 5 times last season (and I watch every match twice) but, if you listen to his critics, he misses two a game.

If you like a player, you will use facts to defend him; if you don't, you can't distort stats to slaughter him.

The proof is generally in the comment.

I think you are right about us pricing him out of a transfer. Last season's points deduction has everyone running scared. The transfer market has never been this uncertain or jittery and for a player well into the last season of his contract, £35M is a ridiculous price to put on him.

I hope he finds a club he fancies. One which will pay our club somewhere near a decent fee.

I'm an Evertonian who wants to talk about our other 20-odd players. The thought of another season where every matchday thread on every forum is dominated by the name Calvert-Lewin is taking the edge off my anticipation of the new season.

The latest fad of desperately attacking his form after every warm-up game, is laugh-out-loud funny. I've seen too many players who have been on fire in pre-season only to spend the rest of the season stinking the place out. But hey. I get it. You don't really dislike him.

Anyway, Martin, the season is just about upon us. We really do have more important things than Calvert-Lewin to discuss. One way or another, he'll be gone soon.

The desperate-to-be-right crew will soon find a new man to relentlessly err... not dislike.

I already know one thing; The bastard (whoever he may be) may have spent years playing in the Premier League, but he will be deemed "Championship at best".

Absolutely spot on. Excellent post

I don't think anyone really dislikes him and I'm fairly confident that most people would say he is the best forward we have at the club.

However, people are pointing out his goal return in the Premier League is average at best at 54 goals in 8 seasons.

Chris Wood has a better goal return than Dominic Calvert-Lewin over the last 8 seasons whilst playing for mediocre teams such as Burnley, Newcastle and Forest.

Let me put you straight. If I say something… I mean it!!!

I said numerous times that I want him to do well and make me eat my words. I don't say that as a lie. That is preposterous and downright insulting to me.

Stats are something our manager thrives upon. He has stated relentlessly that we have one of the best xG rates. So he is perplexed by us not scoring.

What he doesn't say is we have the Premer League's worst conversion rates.

Your arguments just don't hold water to bare facts. Hate that. Hate me. I am not saying just get rid. (Unlike Maupay who I don't rate at all). I am saying cash in if he won't sign and in the world of business, which football is, his figures are… well, you get the picture.

Pre-season is supposed to be to get match sharp and fit. However, the sides that are out are generally not the one that plays the season. Still, I said his misses aren't a good omen and caveated that with "Make me eat my words, Dom."

There is a friendly on Saturday which I guess is meaningless as a player rate guide then?

I'll end there. Let's put this to bed.

With the new signings, he may just have a bit more supply, whereas until now, as a more educated Evertonian than me said, he's spent a long time chasing his own flick-ons.

As we say in life, our loss could turn out to be someone else's gain.

Football is unpredictable and it depends on the players you are surrounded by.

"His stats aren't great. In fact for the 3 or so seasons before Ancelotti, his stats were arguably much worse than now. Ancelotti got the best out of him that no one else can.

For me, this is the issue. What was it that Ancelotti did that got the best out of Calvert-Lewin that every manager before and since didn't?

First off, Ancelotti knew what he was doing, a class above the charlatans we have had, but ultimately it came down to two things:

1. He gave him clear instructions to stay in the box and one-touch finish. That was his sole objective in a game.

2. He fed him crosses and through balls at every opportunity.

Calvert-Lewin (and I think he knows this) will fare much better at a club under a manager who does this and not be an extra centre-half, winger or holding midfielder.

The problem is that he is a good team player and can do the "tactical" jobs managers ask to the detriment of his key strength.

The team is no longer set up to deliver opportunities from wide, no Digne or Coleman or Baines, no wide midfielders who can cross at speed...

You can quote xG till you're blue in the face (what a load of tosh), your eyes and knowledge tell you the story. (How many times in every game have you just muttered "Just cross the bloody thing"?)

I can understand why he wants to go, he doesn't see it changing under Dyche. Time for change.

He's cut a very isolated figure for a few seasons.

And considering he'll be 28 next birthday, and he's only ever scored over 12 league goals twice in his career to date, I would say that's a fairly safe assessment.

Thank you for your well worded reply.

I agree.

I agree that a CF like DCL should be exactly where Carlo told him to be and given the precise instructions as you have outlined.

I agree with what you say about xG stats. Complete bollocks the calculus, not your sage observation.

I didnt realise until recently that the following didnt count as "on target" :-

The X Bar

Posts

Blocked shots.

Deflected shots

Own goals (surely that is on target😂lol)

They are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

In fact the only one that does count is if it is saved or blocked where the defender is the only / sole / single player between the shot and the goal.

Danny you are right.

He is not supported via the flanks or Doucoure so why punt the bloody thing up to him ?

Because we are a liability at passing from defence through midfield and doing it the (yawn) Pep way.

Sadly though he has had chances. Quite a few and his lack of confidence in his body and ability seems to show.

If he stays this is a huge season to prove himself worthy of a good contract and make me flambe my words with fava beans and chianti

Chris wood, often spoken about in derogative terms ( probably because he played for Burnley) is very underated. He has a better goal scoring, than most strikers outside the very elite. However. Unlike DCL. He has only ever played as a striker. He has never played in lots of different positions and has often played with a partner to share the load.

If you didnt hear Duncan Ferguson screaming "Stay center forward", You'll have read the reports. He knew the player better than anyone and was trying to rid him of the round-the-pitch, work horse mentality that had been demanded of him previously.

Carlo Ancelotti agreed with Ferguson, only he had vast experience dealing with players. many of whom far more complicated than DCL. He didnt try to hammer the message into the player. He took the him to one side, showed him videos and explained that he wanted him in the box. That he didnt want him expending energy all over the pitch. How simple was that ?

Having reaped the rewards of following Carlo's simple instructions. DCL could be forgiven for wondering what the was going on when Benitez, Lampard and yes Dyche all instructed him to return to his work horse role.

I think the confirmation bias against this player is so deep routed among a section of our fan base it cannot reversed. They will continue to search for stats which show him in a bad light. Being "right" is too important to them.

Unfortunately they will never be right. They can never be right. The player who "Cant score goals" has proven he can. The "championship at best" player is about to start his 9th season in the EPL.

Calvert Lewin has never been a natural goalscorer (well done to the shrewdies for spotting that) but he is the best all round footballer this club has had in years.

"His all round play - apart from winning balls in the air from long kicks - is not premier league class, therefore move him on" - When I read stuff like that. I could weep.

I want him sold. He has become a side show. His detractors already have the knives drawn before a ball is kicked. Any regular on here would already be able to predict the comments on match day threads should he miss a half chance.

He might miss the odd opportunity. They wont

Keep our powder dry, his goals might get us a higher placed finished, so for every place higher we get £1.7M each placing. Mid-table could see that part rise to around £12 million or more, rather than bring a loan signing in that might then be the same amount of selling Calvert-Lewin with the league placing added on.

I would prefer to keep him for this season and lose a possible £18-£20M transfer fee for him, then lose him, rather than take peanuts for him now.

You seem to think people hate Calvert-Lewin or think he's crap.

I don't think anyone is saying anything like that.

I think most people can see his attributes, ie, holds the ball up well and is good in the air etc, but they are pointing out his goal return isn't that great.

This idea that he has been playing in all different positions such as out wide is correct for the first few seasons at the club but, from then on, he's been played as the focal point of our attack and his goal return hasn't been great.

Absolutely agree. For some reason, those who want Calvert-Lewin to stay are happy to portray those of us who disagree as ravening, slavering idiots, sitting in front of our PCs and TVs sharpening our knives waiting for him to fail so we can crucify him. We are not.

The only thing everyone seems to be able to agree on is that he doesn't do well under a Dyche system and has scored very few goals because of the lack of supply and the role he has been asked to perform. With that in mind, we have 3 choices:

1. Do nothing, and hope Calvert-Lewin can buck the trend of the last few years and score goals in the same circumstances.

2. Change the coach who (in my opinion) has done reasonably well getting us through the last couple of trying seasons, for one who will play a game more suited to our star striker in the hope he may score more goals in his final season before a Bosman departure.

3. Maximise the value in a transfer fee (if anybody wants him) and try and find a striker who fits the system the coach is intent on playing.

#notahater
#notanidiot
#knivesusedforcookingonly

So for me, it's a no-brainer we keep him, anything around £20 Million or less bid, then it would be more important to keep hold of him.

If it gets to around the last couple of days of the window, then we should turn any bids in that region down.

Dave (240) - "You seem to think people hate DCL or think he's crap."

You must not have been reading the threads the last few years.

Scott (241) - "Those who want DCL to stay are happy to portray those of us who disagree as ravening, slavering idiots, sitting in front of our PCs and tvs sharpening our knives waiting for DCL to fail so we can crucify him."

Said no one.

What did Ancelotti do to get Calvert-Lewin to score his biggest goal returns?

Simple.

He played him in a much better side than we currently have.

What I'm getting at is, if Carlo played the same way throughout his tenure, did Calvert-Lewin's goals dry up when results hit the skids?

If so, why?

Without crawling back through previous threads from years gone bye and looking at comments on this thread if saying things such as he's got good attributes but he's not a natural goal scorer is slating him and having knives drawn then we'll have to agree to disagree.

However, his contract situation has led to Lyndon's article which fosters debate. For us fans it's choices. Yay or Nay.

We can all put our views forward. That has led to some heated words and accusations, mainly towards the Nays.

As you and David @ 240 have rightly pointed out that the Nays are positive regarding his contributions. Just that his goal return isn't great. That has been like a red rag to a bull.

Brian @ 238.

A different way to view this subject financially. And a valid one perhaps, given what it equates to. So, if we can reach 9th (ie, £19.2M) for one season or 12th or better for 2 seasons (£10M).

But that opens up the question:- Should we be fighting for given positions because of one player and his contract?

The underpinning factor would be for him remaining fit for two seasons and his conversion rate improving. Interesting.

COYB

Draw your attention back a few comments in this very thread. “Paint false pictures” “don't understand the stats they are spouting” “knives drawn before a ball is kicked”.

This is pretty standard stuff amongst these types of threads lately.

I am using hyperbole but the insinuation that we're feckless haters who don't understand football is pretty clear.

I've seen some u-turns in my time but this thread takes the biscuit.

People leaping from saying He is not premier class, therefore move him on (197), all the way to "He's a blue, no one hates the lad, he is one of us".

Comparing Chris Wood's stats was calculated. It was posted by a long time critic of the player, The fact that Wood has scored more EPL goals than Suarez, Di Canio, Sanchez, Collymore, Richarlison, Zola and Watkins was carefully avoided, as was the probability of DCL scoring more goals than the lot of them before he hangs up his boots.

I would like to believe that carefully selected stats fool nobody. You would have to be blind not to have seen the hatred directed at DCL over the past few weeks and you would have to be stone deaf not to hear the knives being sharpened for the coming season.

I'm done here. I don't mind debating with haters, but how do you reason with people who consistently peddle distorted stats and then claim they don't hate the guy?

Are they doing it because the love him?

I think I'll leave this thread as well because you seem to be arguing with what you think people are saying rather than what they are actually saying.

If Todibo goes through they will have brought in around £140m worth of players.

But as it stands #250 does that job for me.

I am reading a book called Scoccermatics by David Sumpter and basically he puts forward the theory that all life including football can be summed up by probabilities. So you can increase the probability of scoring or reduce it by where you position yourself or where you aim. This is an area that Calvert-Lewin seems to be lacking in and needs some coaching in.

In my thinking, there are really only 4 main tactical ways of playing this game. First, keep possession until the other team and most of the fans fall asleep; then, using great finishing forwards shoot at the goal this is done by Man City and Arsenal.

Second, high-intensity attacking; this is done by Liverpool and Newcastle Utd and involves a large amount of fast players moving into position and shooting, causing chaos in the last 25% of the opposition half. If a goal is not scored, the ball comes out and is immediately sent back into the goal area.

(Incidentally, I think the reason England played so boringly in the Euros group stage was that we had almost equal amounts of players from the above two methods… how can you adapt to the other style in three games?)

Third, fast breakaways with a good defence and a very good attacker or two, combined with set plays. This is played by Everton and West Ham.

Fourth, try and mix all the above three styles with equal priority; players consequently get caught out in the wrong position all over the pitch unable to help in defence or attack when needed. This style usually results in relegation.

How does this help Calvert-Lewin this season?

If he is coached to always force the goalkeeper into action rather than missing the target, this will create pressure on the opposition's defence and they will try and defend the goal from rebounds from our new attacking midfielders etc; this will ironically create more target areas for Calvert-Lewin to aim at.

I am keeping a close eye (as always) on the transfer business being done around us, if DCL goes to Newcastle then who is left for us. Abraham would be an excellent alternative should he stay fit, I think he would thrive under Dyche.

Can't see it somehow though. Other options present a significant risk for us if no PL experience.

I think Newcastle can't afford it due to PSR, this leaves Dom in a weird situation, play all season and run the risk of serious injury and no contract at the end of it (history suggests that this is a BIG risk on his part). Also, he runs the risk of the Goodison crowd being even more ambivalent about him all season.

Or he meets us halfway, signs a new deal with a relatively low release clause (say £30M) which provides him with stability, us with some guaranteed return (or better still he has an injury free run and a rich vein of form and we continue to get great value at an initial outlay of £1.5M).

If Dom signs a new contract this changes our business in the market, i'd like to see us move on Doucs to Saudi for some decent return as he is last year of his contract and a huge earner. Phillips on loan and perhaps one of the cheaper wingers we've been linked to more likely ala Ramon Sosa or Largie Ramazani. If this happened i'd be pleased overall with the business.

Obviously yes I know that's an extreme example, but football could be more simple sometimes.

Digne and a younger Coleman (and Sidibe) at full-back.

Sigurdsson at Number 10 (ish).

Richarlison and Rodriguez on the flanks etc etc - with the likes of Walcott, Bernard and Iwobi in reserve.

Carlo inherited a poorly assembled side but (to use the independent Transfermarkt ratings) it was still the 8th best team in the Premier League for the 2020-21 season — materially ahead of the likes of Villa, Brighton, West Ham and Newcastle. At that point, we were just £100M behind Arsenal in squad value. In just a few years, the gap between us and Arsenal has widened to £700M.

That seems an eminently sensible suggestion, him signing a contract with a reasonable release clause. The fact that that hasn't been done already makes me think there is another play still to come before the window shuts.

I suspect the Geordies know their man wants to come, from their angle it's now just about low-balling us — something that can only really be done during the last week of the window.

Firstly, thank you for believing me.
Secondly, for a sound summary of styles.

I do find Man City boring. Arsenal too now. Out of all the so-called Big Six clubs, there are none that interest me football wise, except Liverpool.

I watched them to hopefully see them lose. But they were more dynamic under Klopp than the other sides.

Dyche inherited the worst players the club has ever had. Without a pot to pee in and one striker who was permanently injured, how the hell he got them to actually survive the last three seasons is little short of a miracle.

Instantly, your options are restricted. Having to sell to balance the books gave a smaller squad( however, some acquisitions had been made, but were not sufficient to radically change anything.

Factor in the PSR nonsense and the man really is a hero. The way he handled Calvert-Lewin's recovery too. Little short of superb, it was insanely frustrating.

Joe and Robert correctly point out that he was coached to be a box player, with players who were capable of feeding him excellent opportunities.

I watched the club's highlights of the Roma game — which, having read the games report, may well have been somewhat biased in favor of us. Dom did fantastic in the way he created and took his goal.

Our new additions looked like they may be the key to a better more Carlo style of play for Calvert-Lewin? Let's hope so.

I think McNeil and Doucouré need to be benched. Harrison too. Give the new guys 6 games to shine.

COYB

I agree with a lot of what you say. If there is the so called "Dycheball", the there is also "Bore Ball". All I would say about Manchester City, is that they may play a patient game, but when they go forward with purpose.

Worse players? Aside from Joe Royle's team, we had some pretty poor teams in the early and late 90s.

Dominic needs to play central without doubt and rather than chasing the ball into corners. That's where he is effective. McNeil will grow into the season and has great delivery on him. I just wish he would be the supply chain for Dominic rather than cutting in.

As for Doucoure, he's unpredictable, but pops up with a few goals.

Providing we keep everyone, we seem to have more options now.

Suspect we'll start the season with McNeil, Doucoure and Harrison in support of DCL (assuming he stays) — with Ndiaye and Lindstrøm having to earn starting spots with performances from the bench.

Boring — but probably the right thing to do.

I'm genuinely excited by Ndiaye because it's been a while since we've had someone who can carry the ball forward like he has shown in the few pre-season games.

By the end of the season, if Ndiaye, Lindstrøm and Patterson have managed to nail down starting places, then we are much better placed to play decent football and feed the striker.

That was the last millennium ha ha ha.
Yes I agree.

Everton have excelled in duffers for what to some is for their entire life.

Robert, sad. But true.

I also just can't get my head round why the manager wanted Harrison back.

Lindstrom and Ndiaye have more pace and adventure about them — but both are off the back of poor seasons for Napoli and Marseille respectively.

Both of them will find the Premier League a step up from the football they are used to. It may take them a while to find some rhythm so a more gentle introduction, boring though that is too, may again be the most sensible move.

Safety first under the Dychecio.

What this signifies to me is that DCL is essentially history one way or another and we are gearing up for a new era. I am presuming DCL won't sign a new contract and so we need to sell him to get some funds through the door.

Trouble is nobody seems to want him, which is a little mystifying but probably linked to his injury record. DCL will therefore run down his contract and leave for free which is exactly not what Everton want.

The fact we have bid for this Ronaldo comparison means also that Beto and Maupay are also surplus to requirements. Could be an exciting season if all of these new players gel together and Dyche plays a more expansive type of football. We also need to get rid of the dead wood.

I would be amazed if we have any genuine interest in Vitor Roque. He's absolutely nothing like Ronaldo (R9) as a player. More like Neal Maupay in stature and vaguely comparable to Lautaro Martinez of Inter in style (or being kind, perhaps Sergio Aguero).

As an 18-year-old, he hit 12 goals in his final season in Brazil to earn his big money (£35M) move to Barca. Good, but not Ronaldo good by any stretch. More along the lines of the conveyor belt of talented young Brazilian strikers — many of whom fade into obscurity (like Kaio Jorge).

I'd fancy his chances of replacing Alvarez at City over time — but it's a tall order for a short arse like Vitor Roque to succeed in a very limited (albeit developing) Everton side.