Are Everton players really that bad?

Former Spain midfielder Cesc Febregas, who is now Como manager, has offered English free agent Dele Alli, 28, the chance to train with his side from January as the midfielder bids to revive his career.

Oh well!

This weekend alone proved we have a top-class goalkeeper and a set of defenders who are capable of shutting out a Top 6 side when fully focussed and the defensive tactics are correct.

I truly believe the team as individuals are still motivated but all too regularly put in a system that doesn't play to their strengths. As you rightly point out, Calvert-Lewin scored regularly under Carlo Ancelotti, when his sole purpose was to get himself into the box.

I appreciate that Calvert-Lewin does much of the donkey work upfront trying to create space for others or scraps for himself but, with Broja now fit, surely this is a chance to add a new dynamic upfront and give Calvert-Lewin the chance to get into more scoring positions (at home at least).

The inability of our players to string passes together is my biggest headscratcher. Watching other teams of supposedly inferior quality out-pass us is so frustrating and inexcusable.

I have no idea whether it is the pressure on our players to perform or bad coaching or a collection of reasons but I can't believe a player can reach Premier League level and be that bad at passing.

Dyche will always frustrate me because, as is the case with the players, the potential and ability are there but his lack of willingness to adapt from his safety default is holding him and the players back.

Look at the 6 teams above us in the Premier League – Palace, West Ham, Man United, Newscastle, Brentford, and then Tottenham in 10th... which of those managers would rather have our squad?

I'd say none.

I get it, Dyche might not be getting the most out of this team… but there is also a very good chance that he is, looking at the teams above us and how superior their squads really are. Brentford have outbid us recently, as have Ipswich, and players have chosen Forest over us on loan.

You say perhaps Mykolenko isn't shit, but which of those teams above us does he get into? Same for Ashley Young? I think they are performing at their full potential, and they simply don't start in any other Premier League team. Same for Doucoure, McNeil, Harrison, maybe even Calvert-Lewin, Gana...

And as for comparing Calvert-Lewin to Solanke? That's funny.

Under a different regime those same players, plus this season's add-ons, could do 8th as a one-off. Get 2 fullbacks and another centre-half who are in their mid-20s, not 30s and that could be 6th on a good day.

8th to 3rd in strictly number terms is an arithmetical progression.

8th to 3rd in skill and money terms is a geometric progression; the higher you go, the harder it is.

We're not as bad as we seem.

As the theme from 'Turtles Progress' has it – "It's tough at the top, But it's tougher at the bottom – and downright boring in between!"

We should easily be on 25 points at least with a more attacking and tactical manager. But Dyche will keep us up so everything is fine.

An excellent question to which I would answer No, they are not – but for different reasons. Imo, we have round pegs in square holes.

You mention Iwobi. Compare him to Harrison or even Lindstrom and it is night and day.

Similarly compare Digne to Mykolenko, the list goes on.

Instead of improving the quality of the squad, we have diminished it over the years.

Many years ago, when I played at a decent level, a player who I played with previously was now a manager and asked me how to improve his team and my answer was simple: “Better players”

Now a good coach and a system of playing will affect players but good players stand out in any system but you have to have synergy and through bad recruitment we do not have synergy nor quality in certain positions.

Brighton are, correctly, held up as the bar to aim at but Dyche achieved the same amount of points as Brighton last season; something his critics seem to forget. Though admittedly this season has seen a regression.

Glad to see Iwobi, a much-maligned player on these pages, getting some recognition. Ironic that him and Robinson have been the best players in Silva's high-flying Fulham.

I think Santa will be checking that claim twice.

Solanke – 34 Premier League goals in around 150 appearances. 1 season in double figures.

Calvert-Lewin – 56 Premier League goals in around 230 appearances. 2 seasons in double figures.

Since I came across ToffeeWeb, the first thing I do when I see an article penned by your good self is put the kettle on and settle down to read it with a large mug of tea and a couple of slices of toast. Unfortunately and uncharacteristically, you seemed lack your usual attention to detail with this piece. I feel you have left out as much as you put in.

I don't think you will get any arguments (not even from Pickford's biggest critics) that he is a top-class shot-stopper, but I think you can expect a lot of people to come on and point out his switch-offs. His inability to command his box and see danger before it arrives. I'm a massive fan, but there is no denying there are flaws to his game.

My mate sitting next to me at Old Trafford turned and said "Fuck me, Tarks looks about 90". So it was no surprise when I got back and heard a commentator on Sky had said exactly the same thing.

He's still brilliant in the air, still a great blocker, and still a menace in the opposition half, but he's creaking, he's switching off. He clearly fears pace and, although he has shown signs of returning to form, it's taken a third of the season for him to get the old engine fired up.

When people talk about 'second season syndrome', they are usually talking about a player whose strengths have been recognised after an impressive debut season. I think that is where Branthwaite is at the moment.

Class will always win out and he has quality in all the areas you highlight. He will be a top player, but opposing teams react differently when he is in possession to when any of our other defenders have it. They don't drop and expect the ball to be launched over their heads.

They know "This fella is going to play it" and you can see the press kick in. Branthwaite will overcome this and become top-class, but he is still learning his trade against world-class players.

I don't doubt Idrissa has stats comparable to other top midfield men, but he often plays in a two and all too often can't cover the ground expected of him. Doucouré can cover the ground, but often looks like that is his only asset. I suspect his ability to spring the odd surprise with a goal is the only reason that keeps him in the team. Unfortunately any team he plays for will struggle to gain and keep possession.

Calvert-Lewin is a fabulous footballer. Anybody who has played the game will know how difficult it is to control those ridiculous punts, especially with two grocks up your arse trying with all their might to stop you doing it. But he has never been a natural striker. There does seem to be an element of our fan base that seem to almost enjoy exaggerating chances he has. He only has to touch the ball in the opposition half and they're up screaming "Look he's missed a-fucking-nother one one-on-one!"

That said, he is far too deliberate to fool your average goalie when given time to think. We've played without a striker for years.

If we want to pick out individual qualities of our players, we will surely find talent, but they are all flawed in some way and their weaknesses often over-shadow their talent.

Thanks for putting this up, Lyndon. Great topic and I'll be back later today, big mug of tea in hand, expecting to see some very interesting responses.

The 3 points against Bournemouth, the 2 points against Brentford. Should have got more from Southampton, Leicester and West Ham away.

Home games against Newcastle and Fulham only 2 points. So yeah we should be on 25 points at least. This is what Dyche has done to you, mate. He's lowed your expectations.

Sounds a lovely dream, maybe TFG can get us closer.

The title is telling, but now we are beginning to keep a few clean sheets, it's obvious how much the team missed Jarrad Branthwaithe, even though the kid has been nowhere near his best since he returned.

I don't feel sorry for any footballer but I look at Lindstrom and I wonder what he would be like playing inside? I look at Ndiaye constantly picking the ball up too far away from the opponent's goal, and I look at Calvert-Lewin being isolated.

The most important position on a football pitch is definitely your “starting position” and, unless we are playing with an incredibly deep low block, Everton's just doesn't feel right.

So you don't think this squad was capable of getting more points so far this season, with the fixtures we've had?

They're not Brazil 1970 but they're better than relegation. We're staying up, by the skin of our teeth, despite Dyche, not because of him.

We'll miss Calvert-Lewin when he's gone.

Some games, I sit there and think these players are being held back by a rigid formation and set of instructions and look like they daren't try anything for fear of what'll happen to them.

Other games, I see a fair number of them making so many unenforced errors that I find it hard to believe they're playing in the Premier League.

I really don't know which is right, or whether it's a mixture of both.

I do think that we should be at the very least 6 points better off and possibly 8 due to a mixture of cock-ups of immense magnitude and general fuckwittery.

Amazingly we've lost fewer games than Spurs and Brentford.

What I really want and wish for is the time when we walk out onto that pitch and the desire to win outweighs the fear of losing.

Clearly there has long been an issue at Everton with good players (and managers) chronically underperforming and then flourishing when they have left the club, Iwobi and Gordon being just the two latest examples.

In my opinion, there is a huge psychological flaw in the club, an intense sense of frustration allied to an inferiority complex which gets worse and worse with every year that Liverpool FC pull away with yet more success.

When this powerful cocktail of emotions ignites positively, it can massively support the players on the pitch. But, when things get tricky, as they so often do, it creates such a mood of inexpressible aggression and rage that permeates everything.

So much of football is played in the head – look at how Man City have collapsed so rapidly – and I think Everton's headspace has been screwed up for decades. This is one of the main reasons we are trapped in this cycle of hopelessness.

The cure? Perhaps the new stadium… but more likely a miraculous period of even moderate success – something to break the spell, this jinx we have on us.

We need luck and an inspirational new manager. Until then...

The inability to hold onto the ball like it was a hot potato, the very poor passing long and short, the lack of movement, and some of the misses have been comical… but not very funny when you are up off your seat cheering a goal that has, unbelievably, gone over the bar.

Can't any of these players think for their bleedin' selves? Football is a very simple game to play, starting with finding a player with a pass who is wearing the same colour shirt as yourself!

I think 25+ points after 15 games is bordering on Champions League form which is clearly an unlikely expectation for us currently.

I watch our opposition in relegation in a semi-quantitative manner and believe that we are a mid-table team in terms of squad quality in comparison.

I agree with your points about Branthwaite, Lindstrøm, Ndaiye and Calvert-Lewin. I just wonder if we had a different manager with a different philosophy, say Thomas Frank, would these players look a whole lot better?

Sean Dyche seems to want to concentrate on the defensive side rather than the attacking side, just take his approach to how he wants his wingers to play.

He has Harrison and Lindstrom as auxiliary full-backs rather than attacking wingers, and even when they have a chance to attack, there is no full-back to try and overlap and take players away. Ndiaye is being double-marked as most opponents realize that, other than dead-ball situations, he is their main threat.

Maybe not 25 points but enough to be safe already.

We've a couple of decent players, but the vast majority are unable to change a game. We are a team that can spoil, and the value of that is limited – we just happen to have a Top 30 wage bill for the privilege.

Striker, right-wing, centre-midfield, full-backs are all areas to be addressed.

It's only a matter of time before kids get 'Own Goal' on the back of their shirts, such are we short of quality.

Conversely, there have been times his tactics have resulted in ill-suited players performing badly in roles or positions at his insistence. So we clearly have a mismatch between the players' ability to deliver what is asked.

Jointly to blame or culpability by players and manager for poor performances? Is Dyche getting the best out of them? Absolutely not. As I said on another thread, he is setting his team out not to lose, rather than gamble.

Saying that, we have too many passengers who are the manager's favourites. Take Calvert-Lewin, for instance: he has no fire in his belly imo, that early break we had by Doucouré against Arsenal was a case in point. Any striker worth his salt would be busting a gut to get into the box but he was all but jogging forward, yards behind the play.

Is that good?

For a lot of players, it's a natural talent they have; for others, they have potential and, with a lot of coaching, they will make the grade. Along with commitment, dedication and most importantly, the right coaching, for me, this is where we've been let down over the past few years. Imagine If players said to each other, “Forget what the manager and coaches have told us to do, let's do it our own way”.

Players are held back from doing what they want to do because they are told to – not because they're rubbish or afraid to do something different to what the manager wants.

Why don't our full-backs overlap? Because they are told not to.

Why does it always seem like Calvert-Lewin plays wide, looking for balls down the channel, instead of staying in the middle? Because he's told to.

Why does Pickford launch long balls 90% of the time? Because he's told to.

As Dave says @18, football is a simple game. Finding a team mate with a simple pass should be, well, simple.

I also wonder if communication is a flaw in some players? How many times do you see a player running with the ball with an opponent right behind him and then nick the ball off him? Do team mates not shout “Man on”? When I played in goal, albeit only amateur level, I sometimes felt physically sick with constant bawling at team mates.

I could go on, and probably most of you disagree with me, but as I said at the beginning of this post, professional footballers, and certainly not Premier League players, are far from rubbish!!

I think lower mid-table is where this squad belongs in an average season. Compared with many teams around us, we lack players with pace and creativity. With each downward twist of the financial spiral, we have reduced the quality of our attacking players.

So, for example, Jack Harrison offers less threat than Andros Townsend; as yet the distrait Jesper Lindstrøm is less effective than the mercurial Demarai Gray; the exciting Iliman Ndiaye is less effective than Richarlison; the defensively solid Vitaliy Mykolenko gives us less in attack than Lucas Digne; and so on.

If our financial situation had not been so dire, Dyche would have kept hold of Alex Iwobi, one of our few effective ball carriers in recent seasons and one of the key players in the 5-1 win at Brighton in May 2023.

Our problem and Dyche's is that, when we throw players forward, we fail to capitalise fully on attacking options and leave ourselves vulnerable to the counter-attack. So at Chelsea last season, we started brightly, pressed high, failed to score and subsequently fell apart in a 6-0 defeat.

At home to Brighton in the first game of the season we started brightly, failed to score and were cut open in a 3-0 loss.

At home to Bournemouth, we took a 2-0 lead, chased after a third goal, failed to get it, and capitulated in eight minutes. At 2-1 in that game, we still had players chasing forward looking for a third goal and ridiculously were caught on the counter.

It is those sort of experiences coupled with our league position which have reinforced Dyche's inclination to adopt a low-risk approach in the last couple of months. If he needed a reminder, he received it at Manchester United when we dominated play in the opening half-hour, failed to capitalise on possession before collapsing against a very average team.

Against a much stronger team on Saturday, the team focused on defensive play to earn a well-deserved draw. But anything other than a defensive strategy would inevitably have resulted in a heavy defeat. Had we had more effective attackers with pace, we might even have stolen a win in the closing stages as Arsenal ran out of ideas despite using their five substitutes.

To sum up, we have some good players of Premier League standard but mainly in the defensive areas of the team. The area where we are currently below standard is in the attacking areas. In that scenario, it makes eminent sense to make the most of our defensive strength until such time that we have the attacking power to adopt a more offensive approach.

Whilst no Premier League footballer is rubbish, relative to the average standard of Premier League footballer, then our players are below par.

You provided some excellent examples: Mykolenko is far less of a threat than Digne. Ndiaye is far less productive than Richarlison, etc.

This is what our fans don't appreciate and it's pure passion and fantasy to believe we can play more openly when we're just so darn wasteful in attacking areas and when having shots at goal.

It does frustrate me that we have so many fans with an untrained eye: how many chances do Calvert-Lewin and Beto need to miss before fans realise that Dyche can only work with what he's got??

Are we really expecting Dyche to tell a 39-year-old Young to bomb up and down the pitch overlapping??

I can hear the ‘What about Patterson' shouts but a) he couldn't get in the Rangers team; b) Rafa didn't rate him; c) Frank didn't rate him; d) Dyche doesn't rate him.

We are crying out for a silk purse to be made with a sow's ear.

Let's put it another way: how many of our players are wanted elsewhere to be a regular first teamer??? Maybe Pickford, Branthwaite and Tarkowski at best. None of the rest of them get in a mid-table (or above) team on a regular basis, yet Dyche has to put up with completely unrealistic expectations.

Madness!

I've really nothing to add to their excellent posts.

We've seen some good attacking games this season where we could and should have scored 4 or 5 goals, and others where we can't string 2 passes together. This seems to highlight one of our main failings, ie, consistency.

Is this, as Brian suggests, a result of the manager's game plans and instructions strait-jacketing and stifling the players' natural ability, or is it a lack of heart and desire to win?

Like Brian, I can't make up my mind but I think a lot of it is down to Dyche's mindset and tactics.

We don't have the worst squad in the Premier League but we do tend to play square pegs in round holes much too often to get the best out of what we've got.

Individual talent, such as McNeil, is a luxury at the moment as the team grind out points to steer clear of the Bottom 3.

It would be nice to be in a more comfortable position in the Premier League to let the handbrake off and not worry about the consequences of relegation. I think then and only then will we see more individual talent.

Everything stated is bang on the money. Here's to a dominant, battling defensive but rewarding festive fixture list and beyond.

Liverpool dropped points on Saturday; we gined 1 point —ain't life sweet at times. COYB

It begs the question as to what on earth Frank Lampard was doing when he had Richarlison, Gordon, Iwobi, Gray in the squad. Why were we so bad?

In my view, though we can't separate out the players from the style of play they are asked to adopt, we cannot look at the performance of an individual player and compare him with another player at another club cos they play a different model.

For instance, in Moyes's old teams, the centre-backs always looked great, cos the whole team was designed around what suited the centre-backs. That meant that the centre-forwards would be more likely to look like donkeys, cos they were asked to run around all the time.

So you could say that Sylvan Distin was as good as Vidic, cos they had similar stats, but we all know that our style of play would have helped him get into the same bracket.

And equally now, we play a low-ambition boring style of football, cos we've got Doucoure, Gueye, Young, Coleman, who are all 35 or over, and so we play a low block so their slowness isn't exposed.

As such, I would say that it really is the shortcomings in our players that is ultimately leading us to this position. Nobody's fault, we've not been able to spend for years; but certainly not a stick to beat the manager with, I'm sure any other top manager would do the same.

In short, it would be my contention that it is not the style of play that is holding back the players; it is the players who are holding back our style of play, because objectively our players have physical shortcomings (ie, their age) that we know would be exposed with a more expansive system.

Although some of our players are not the best and a few were out of sorts earlier this season, we do have some decent players.

Pickford, Tarkowski (back on form), and Branthwaite. Malanga, Gueye and Ndiaye looking good the past few matches.

Dominic tries, but is often isolated. Broja put in a decent cameo on Saturday. That's down to tactics from the manager as I see it.

So, with a few additions, the basis of a half-decent team.

Whether that is January is down the the owners and Thelwell, as I don't think Dyche will have a say whenever he is going.

The Wolves game illustrated to me that, even when we were 3-0 up, the team never showed any real confidence, they were still making the misplaced passes and losing the ball too easily.

And when we were 2-0 up, the crowd was still tense realising that if Wolves got a goal back we were liable to get worse and possibly panic and lose the game.

And I lose faith in it.

I also don't think it really reflects ability. It's so skewed towards age. Are the best players all really 24?

We have a spine of decent players. Players who we pay a lot of money to each week. Pickford, Tarkowski, Gueye, Ndiaye, Calvert-Lewin. It's far from terrible. It's no coincidence that it's almost exclusively the defensive players who appear to be performing.

I see a few references on this thread to Demarai Gray. Pacy, could muster a goal threat, unpredictable, and not a great contributor to defence. There's a reason why we don't have those sort of players and it's not just financial or because he's a bad egg. He was frozen out of the team well before the public fall out, which deprived us of an attacking option.

If you were a pacy attacker who has more interest in the opposition goal than your own... would you move to Sean Dyche's Everton? I wonder what Ndiaye is thinking about his move?

I don't know what sort of move Calvert-Lewin will get. But I bet he's itching to get away anyway.

John is bang on the money, except for the bit which says that most of the players who are of a good enough standard for the Premier League are defensive players.

I agree that the area where we are below average is in the attacking area, but Calvert-Lewin, Ndiaye, McNeil, hopefully soon Broja, are all decent forward-thinking players, but because it's rare for our wide players getting anyone running past them, it usually means that Everton are one of the easiest teams to defend against.

Patterson could give us something going forward but he can't get near the team, whilst Mykolenko is an ever-present, even though it's rare for him to break forward.

One of my favourite Everton players over the last 25 years has been Steven Pienaar but I'm not sure he would be any use playing in a team that never really tries to create a 2 v 1 situation out wide.

I know that the result flattered us with two own goals, and we are prone to panic and crumble under pressure ourselves.

But the point that I am making is that Everton applied pressure for Wolves to make mistakes, and to me that proves we are capable of taking the game to other teams, especially at home.

I look back at the '60s team, the '70s team and then the '80s
Those teams did not win things because they had the most expensive players.

They won things because the teams had balance. A mix of expensive and also cheap players who gelled and as a unit were great “teams”.

I'll not go back to the '60s and '70s teams as most will probably relate to the '80s teams. Southall, cost nowt. Ratcliffe and Mountfield, nowt. Reid, Sheedy, nowt. Gray nowt. Sharp was what? £100k from Dumbarton.

Players were brought in and slowly a team was built up and a pattern of play made to suit those players that were, in my opinion, possibly destined to rule Europe. It took time and Kendall made many mistakes but once the players gained confidence, off we went.

This present bunch do not have the balls or confidence to step up, I'm afraid. We do have, like many have said, a few good ones, and who may spring a few surprises. Hopefully we can get rid of some and bring in better.

Until we stabilise the club off the field, we can't expect much on it just now.

All of the others have deficits of speed (all midfielders); control (Doucoure… Clang! – as it hits his shin again!); physical presence (Harrison); instinct (lack of attacking for Mykolenko, shooting for Calvert-Lewin); skill to beat a man (all except Ndiaye); composure (Beto), etc...

So, 40-50% of our first 11 are "suitable", that's 20-30% of the squad. With better coaching, instruction and confidence, that score may double, but that would still only be 50-60% of our squad up to a standard expected from a team that should be in the Top 10 in the country.

That's why we are bottom of the middle third or top of the bottom third.

How did it get like this? It's not just because the players are the above, that's merely a symptom. It's because the entire club has been eroded and reshaped throughout the last 35 years as an entity to make money (which is extracted from the business) rather than a football team to win trophies.

Against Man Utd, we were set up to attack and expose them on the flanks, which we did for half an hour, but we couldn't take advantage due to our predictable impotency in front of goal, so eventually we fell apart and took a pasting.

After the game, most posters conveniently side-stepped this and took predictable swipes at Dyche when actually he'd tried to give us a platform to take the game to a weak Man Utd team.

The game at Arsenal then exemplified the only way these players can get a result away from home against bigger teams, and it's not by attacking with either abandon or a cohesive plan.

That said, I think Dyche misses a trick or two when at home in doing something with his line-ups to get the crowd going, one or two tweaks to his preferred eleven would mean we could get on the front foot more often without conceding the midfield or our defensive solidity.

I think our attacking players are bereft of both confidence and skills, Dyche has thus adapted his approach accordingly. Set pieces remain our most potent form of attack.

Comments that certain players are paid well and so should be performing more effectively display a disengagement from reality and an obvious agenda. We've paid over the odds for years due to our muddled recruitment, that has nothing to do with the manager, it's a complete non-argument.

Everton are suffering a crisis in confidence as an attacking unit and have done for some time. Dyche is not the long-term answer to that, but he didn't create the problem either like some would have you believe. We need both better players, and sooner or later a manager who can breed some confidence and goals back into them. There's no quick fix.

For me, you can be a good player in a poor team, but it's unlikely to be good enough to turn the team into a good one.

Success for the team is all about winning games, and you can't win many games if you can't score.

So when I see a bunch of players who can't put the ball in the net (and professional players too), then I don't classify them as being very good.

Whether it's the manager, the system, the weather…. it just seems nuts in the ‘modern game' where defending seems to have been abandoned at times, we haven't managed to see a player who regularly scores a goal.

See what Clough did in the 70s, he built teams but always had a top striker or two.

I am still hopeful that Ndiaye could be such, but he needs someone to play closer to him. I can understand our manager not allowing that at The Emirates, but there are other games where it could make the difference between gaining 1 point and 3.

Dyche trusts the defensive players, but has too many forward players helping the defence.

Two or three well-thought additions and a manager with a more positive outlook could make a decent difference to this squad.

Iwobi is a case in mind Tony, easily Premier League standard and now playing in a team that utilises his talents properly, look at the difference.

Pretty mediocre for us, a star for Fulham. I'll bet there were plenty saying Chris Woods wasn't a Premier League player too.

For me, our current position is two or three places below where this current team should be, and if you chuck in the games where we have either had a catastrophic loss of focus (Bournemouth) been caught on the break (Southampton) or losing after a bright start (Brighton) we have, sadly, betrayed a weak mentality. This is something the manager has pointed to in pressers, without actually taking direct responsibility himself, and he clearly regards this “mentality” issue as something he inherited upon taking the job.

Dyche is now placing himself in the role of the bringer of positive change, if only he is given the tools to do the job (ie, a squad refresh). I have always thought he has done well, given the hand he has been dealt, but – as he has said himself numerous times – it's “all about results” and the fans expect much better.

Several comments on this thread have correctly referenced the atrocious passing game we have at Everton, and this does not appear to have improved at all under Dyche's tenure. By contrast, I was taken by the quality of passing in the Bournemouth v West Ham game last night; Iraola's men know how – and when – to pass a ball and very quickly get the ball to the feet of pacy and tricky wingers. The Cherries were a constant threat from start to finish, yet we cede around 70% possession in every game, home or away.

Dyche and his football has had its day, I'd love to see the players in their rightful positions and let loose to do what we hope they are capable of?

Like is said above, the players we have are professional and supposedly Premier League standard… let them prove it!

Sight flaw in your argument. Digne and Gordon played zero games for Dyche.

Iwobi played 19 games for Dyche, everyone he was available for and was voted Players Player of the season.

We got c £90M for the three players because they were good players.

We have invested very little of that into the playing squad as evidenced by our negative net spend of £50M in the last 3 years

That's the reason our squad lacks quality. Three creative players replaced by cheaper workhorses. It's not difficult…

Tell me if we had:

Digne instead of Mykolenko;
Richarlison instead of Lindstrøm;
Iwobi instead of Harrison;
Gordon instead of Ndiaye…

We're not a better team regardless of the coach

I didn't know Ademola Lookman has just won African Player of the Year.

I think you're looking at Iwobi and Gordon through rose-tinted glasses. Neither were considered must-have names on the team sheet whilst they were with us. That wasn't due to coaching or positioning. Both used to get flack due to regularly losing the ball or no end product.

There's every chance they were motivated to improve when they left because they had to. Both took a while to settle into their respective new teams and took heat until they adapted.

Totally agree with Richarlison and Digne.

The problem is/was we couldn't keep players as we needed to balance the books.

Whether Dyche would get the best out of any of the four had they stayed, is yet another question.

Life is always nuanced, there is always going to be a bit of both when you are as bad as us, but personally I think the current team and squad is just about the worst in 55 years of supporting Everton. It is not the least bit surprising that we chug along the bottom of the table. Our saviour has been how tough it is for newly promoted clubs to cope. There is always one, sometimes two, totally out of their depth.

I'm not going to do a player-by-player assessment, as others have already done so, but we also have one of the oldest teams in the Premier League now, so even players who were once pretty handy, like Young, Coleman, Gueye and Tarkowski, are getting close to or past their sell-by date. It's going to be a challenge just to maintain the status quo. I hope we can recruit better than we have been.

It will also be interesting to see who comes in for Calvert-Lewin, supposedly one of our best and most highly paid players. Personally, I think he is going to be disappointed if he thinks a Top 6 or 8 team will shell out £150k a week, even if they get him for next to nothing.

I think you are forgetting Iwobi's final career when, after a couple of forgetful years, he established himself as an ever-present. Contributed eight assists and was the club players' Player of the Year. It's also undoubtedly true he had a little bit of creative quality that we lack desperately.

Gordon was a young kid coming through. Again, his talent was undeniable and that's why Newcastle shelled £50M.

My point is that we have lost genuinely creative players and replaced them with inferior ones. I also realise that we've had to do that because of the mismanagement of previous years

So our squad is hovering around its benchmark. I look back at some of the games this season: Ipswich, Bournemouth, 30 minutes against Man Utd, and we dominated. I would like to see more and the players are capable.

My issue is how we set up and the style or lack of that we play with.

I get it that no one wants to be relegated, particularly this season, but we are not out of the woods yet so I believe we will not move away from our current way of playing, including against so-called lesser teams.

I wanted Dyche to get the full season and have not changed my mind and I often wonder how he would do with better quality players, let's say Brighton? Would he play to their strengths or his ideology?

So overall, our players are not good enough for our manager's ideology; whether they are good enough for the Premier League is another question.

Fair enough up to a point and we obviously pressed Wolves more than we have done against other teams but all the goals came from corners and a disallowed one from a free kick.

We could have scored more when Broja came on and laid on some chances for Harrison… but the less said about Harrison's efforts, the better.

I thought Wolves' defence and goalkeeper and their performances helped with the four goals they did concede.

Everton is not a good career choice for players, since they seem to gravitate to below-par performance. This has been the case for a number of years. This for me is due to a training structure that has doffer management or at least is influenced by doffers.

The other area is individual player development which seems to go well for a while… but then seems to fall off. Long-term development of players is also weak. Some are even damaged by it, Calvert-Lewin being a glaring example.

So is the solution a set formation, which is usually suggested, as in an offensive formation? No, not in the Premier League. It may work well for one game, but will be analysed and countered by the next, with the key players getting special attention.

Everton have currently got a relegation specialist manager with a ridgid defensive structure. When he gets illusions of offensive play, it is against the wrong teams: Chelsea, Bournemouth and Man Utd.

Everton in Dyche's words 'do not have an individual striker that can score, what they have is a team of strikers'. Support play for individual Strikers is not a priority. If Dyche is on for a point in the second half, forward play diminishes.

Another issue is that constantly struggling for Premier League survival season after season results in burnout. Everton players do show evidence of this.

That is certainly not happening at Everton at the moment. I think that Dyche's tactics make many of them look bad.

That being said, I believe your conclusion is deeply flawed, and the players you have handpicked to illustrate it are not necessarily properly characterized. Young players like Gordon mature at different speeds -- he was initially considered a flop at Newcastle -- and their improvement after leaving Everton is not necessarily to be credited to better coaching. And please, Dom never remotely looked like a "dead-eye assassin" under Carlo -- a goal every 180 minutes is good production for a striker, but by no means anything special. (And not one goal featured a really good shot.)

More to the point for me is that the team picture is what matters, much more than the individual profile of the players. We have less team speed than almost any of our opponents -- we lose most midfield contests not because of any lack of desire but because the opposition is simply quicker to the ball.

How many players do we have who can consistently complete a successful dribble past an opponent? By my count, two or three -- and one is a center back.

How many players do we have who can really crack a shot? Two, maybe three -- and our best is a reserve center back.

How many players can really drive the ball into attack? My count is two, maybe three counting Jarrad. Regularly put in good crosses? One. Consistently convert an opportunity in the box? Zero, except for that same reserve center back.

I wouldn't phrase it that the players are not good enough, but rather that we do not have enough good players. And given the age of our squad, dreaming of "latent potential" is simply not realistic. Most of these guys have long ago shown whatever they've got.

With the ownership transition, our manager -- be it the incumbent or somebody new -- will have more and better talent at his disposal. And that, to me, is the top priority.

Those that constantly degrade our players and accuse supporters of being unrealistic are the very ones who are completely illogical. They say we don't have Digne or Richarlison or a prime Coleman but what they fail to understand is that those players were constantly operating in a team which was finishing between 6th and 12th depending on a good or bad season.

Never have I heard one critical supporter of Dyche arguing we should be competing for Europe. It's almost like they have an internal debate to justify their argument and then prove only to themselves how bad our squad is.

Then they point to Mykolenko, Young, Harrison and McNeil as proof that we don't have the ability to attack from defence or pace to hurt teams the other way. Now not having Iwobi is an excuse even though we didn't need or miss him last season and he was useless under Dyche unlike Lampard and Silva now. Dyche has no desire for overlapping full backs or speedy widemen even if we had Cafu,Carlos,Salah and Overmars on our books. They wouldn't have the license.

Lyndon you have highlighted players we have lost who improve elsewhere but there are also many here especially offensive players who have a history of productivity but aren't showcasing that under this regime. They are constrained, misused, have lost confidence, uncoached and generally are just pawns in Dyche's system. Their skillets and deficiencies are inconsequential and secondary to the rigid, collective ideology of Dyche.

Many have pointed to the Brentford game as Dyche limitations embarrassing for all to see but for me the West Ham game was almost as bad in terms of strategy.

This game it was argued by defenders of Dyche that we played well, dominated the game, had lots of shots, took the game to them, that we limited them to few chances and he was constrained by having few options from the bench. All pretty accurate but for me they didn't see the game as I did and were missing the bigger picture.

On the day they had three slugs in central midfield. Our trio were always going to overpower theirs which was like the Davies, Gomes and Sigurdson axis for us. We played with our usual 4-2-3-1 and over 90% of our 'shots' fell to Gueye,Mangala or Doucoure with the latter only a genuine goal threat. As usual Dominic was starved of service but Ndiaye and Lindsrom were so restricted that they were constantly behind all 3 central midfielders as Dyche had clearly identified Bowen and Summerville as their threats.

For me this was not a game where we needed to be more positive, proactive or use different players. This was just all about Dyche's methodology and how he expects to win a game. Our centre forward gets no crosses or pull backs and his only hope for a chance was from a slide pass where he is expected to be Thierry Henry. Our 'wide players' were so deep that their creation or opportunity to score was non existent. Indeed Ndiaye was having to beat a couple of players just to get into a chance of a creating position.

Gueye, Mangala and Doucoure all had opportunities due to their midfield not being able or unwilling to match them. Then when they don't convert these opportunities mostly front 25 yards then they are labelled as shit.

Would it not have been more logical to play a 4-3-3 formation and get Lindstrom and Ndiaye further up the pitch and supporting Dominic. Would it not make more sense to trust our full backs to defend and have Gueye sitting and covering from side to side. Mangala and Doucoure can still go box to box but at least if a chance does fall you have our most potent players in the most advanced roles to provide a cross, a bit of magic or if a half chance presents itself. Indeed our one clear chance on the day came from Lindstrom (yes Lindstrom) getting the ball from the edge of our box, passing it forward to Gueye who passes it forward to Doucoure, even that tells you why we don't score.

You look at the job of a coach regardless of the hand he is dealt (and this unequivocally the best one of the three seasons he has had) and you say expose your strengths and hide your deficiencies regardless of ideology. It is clear for everyone to see that full back and wide positions are where we are weak. There are numerous teams in the league who are weak in a lot more critical areas than we are, even those with better players and better squads like West Ham who are unbalanced in midfield and central defence and is a major factor in not competing for Europe.

Mykolenko is no Baines or Digne but I believe he is better defensively than both and is perfect for a back three as is Coleman on the right. Tarkowski, O Brien, Branthwaite and Keane are all proficient on the ball so would also be well suited.

Harrison and Patterson are suited to the right midfield role. Lindstrom less so but he is doing so in the current set up.
McNeill could certainly do so on the left Mykolenko might be a less able deputy though.

Central midfield would need legs of which all 5 on the books are perfect. Gueye is a warrior, Mangala has coolness, Doucoure has athleticism, Garner has vision and Tim has the ability to glide past men.

The likes of Ndiaye and Lindstrom are crying out to play more centrally as inside forwards. Both want to get behind the striker and in pockets. Doucoure and Harrison could do a job but more crucially we could also transition to play with two strikers if one was poor. Only Calvert Lewin and Beto are unsuited as a pair but Broja and Chermiti could really benefit.

Only Young would be the fall guy yet so many players would benefit. The problem with a system like this is that it would require nuance.

Pickford, Mykolenko, Young, Tarkowski, Branthwaite, Gueye, Mangala, Doucoure, Ndiaye, Calvert-Lewin, McNeil

6 of those signed under his stewardship, another introduced to the first team by him.

The team is shaped in his image, it's what he does. Hard-working, physical players but it's bereft of genuine quality. The question is, given the financial environment what else could he do other than what he knows best?

The idea that he's going to go out and play expansive football is for the birds. It's ugly and dispiriting but it's probably our best chance of staying in the Premier League.

If the new ownership actually has some way of providing funds for squad investment, I'd have him absolutely nowhere near it… but for now, we have to grit our teeth and hope it works like it did in the previous two seasons.

He did sign Tarkowski for Burnley and McNeil came through the youth system there also.

Totally nonsensical point.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/42706216/how-set-piece-specialists-thriving-premier-league

A New York Times article I cited last year (it unfortunately remains behind a paywall) profiles Dyche as one of the few managers to use free kicks from his own end as attacking opportunities, and choreographing them accordingly using Pickford's big leg and one thing Everton players are really good at -- winning long balls in the air. Nobody better than Dom or Tarks. Produced some goals last season.

It's always nice to get a little bit of detail as to why my point is nonsensical.

Rather than replying to the whole article, or even some posts individually, the one post that prompted me to post was Conor McCourt's at [62]

I can't recall who said that as a manager (in his example Carlo) should look at his squad, and apply tactics that suit the squad.

Well, I did think about this on a Robert Tressell article and asked Tony Abrahams about an alternative to the 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1 that Dyche seems to prefer (Much like people saying putting a couple of players in unfamiliar or non-preferred positions)

You can argue regards the personnel required for a formation, but I would move away from a back four altogether with the inadequacies and limited depth that this team has.

Personally, I'd play (Yes, being brave or idiotic Tony 🙂) a back 3, and play a 3-4-2-1 formation.

This gives a central box of four, or a natural four triangle formation in the middle of the park, with the two players wide in the four being able to crowd the infield, support the back three, or support the front three with depth and width.

With the current staff, although this is all theoretical of course, I'd play the following team;

Pickford

Tarkowski Keane Branthwaite (O'Brien and Myko)

Patterson (Young) Gana Mangala McNeil (Young)

Lindstrøm NDiaye

DCL (Or in time Broja, Chermiti, Beto)

I think it would still provide excellent defensive cover that Dyche would like (as he always asks his FBs to play narrow anyway) plus having a third CB at the back may mean we could leave an attacking player at the halfway line.

As I say, you could pick and choose differing personnel; e.g. some may not like Patterson, but as far as I'm aware, he fell into disgrace with Dyche because he played RB as an RB should, and not as an everted CB... I feel he might thrive as a RWB (as it may be called?)

Most importantly, the formation could get Lindstrøm and NDiaye closer to the striker (whomever that would be) and also play the pair of them in their more preferred positions (or near enough)

Just my thoughts...

Though my parting shot on the issue in hand; Are Everton players that bad (no, not in general), is it the managers tactics (his hands are tied currently, he's been asked to do a job and he is being pragmatic)

However, what isn't being mentioned, is Finch Farm, which whatever players or managers we have had in, has been a constant.

From stories regaled to me, if I were the new owners or in someway associated with them. I'd clear Finch Farm out, everyone to go, I'd restructure the site so that is cutting edge now, and not cutting edge from 17 years ago, also the owners would have to have a discussion with 'their' DoF and identify the very best personnel for all roles, from niche coaching to cafe staff and get the whole site running as a centre of (and for) excellence.

Personally, I feel that the entrenched and ingrained attitudes with the staff at Finch Farm does nothing to help our team.

But one of the most successful managers in football, Carlo Ancelotti, was moved to admit he would have to be a magician to solve Everton's issues.

And yet with a worse squad, Sean Dyche should be finishing 8th or 9th.

Everton's players aren't that bad but they ain't great either.

The squad is still a Frankensteinian (if it is not a word, it should be) Monster's mixture cocktailed from various managers, failed projects, loans and cut price deals.

What I have noticed is that there are very few partnerships on the pitch at the moment. One seems to be developing between Gueye and Mangala - but that seems to be about it. As many have mentioned - to top it all - a lot of creative players were let go and sold off. So, we have Dyche piecing together a number of other managers and DOF's (plus the interference from owners etc.) players into some sort of cohesive unit. That said - I think they are actually better than they are showing at the moment. Once Broja is up to speed, and Garner and Iroegbunam return, then there are more possibilities.

Do I think Dyche could be more imaginative - 100% yes. Do I understand his pragmatism - 100% yes, though it is a hard watch - as was the Arsenal game in my opinion.

The one thing I don't understand is paying out as much for the likes of Chermiti, O'Brien and Beto (even with the delayed payments) - when the needs are immediate. That is not to say that they will not develop into something decent, but the stakes are too high in the present to think too far into the future I reckon.

Being pedantic but you’re misquoting him. Carlo said “I’m not a magician.” You’re extrapolating on that and making assumptions about Everton. It may simply have been that while in Corby he saw reruns of old 80s shows and unimpressed reacted by distancing himself from magician Paul Daniels.