Mike Walker: Victim?

At the time of his sacking 16 games into the '94-95 season, we'd won 1 game (the 13th league game). This after only 5 wins in his 19 games of the previous season i.e. there was no turning this around.

I also think the context of the time is important. Even given the impact on the Everton 'psyche' of the Wimbledon game, I don't think the losing mentality and acceptance of such low standards so prevalent in recent times was quite so ingrained back then. We had been champions a mere 7 years previously.

Royle's subsequent impact, and the speed of it, also suggests Walker simply wasn't getting a tune out of a generally capable, and in some cases excellent, squad of players e.g. 10 of the 11 who took to the field in Walker's final game as manager also produced THAT performance at Elland Road and started at Wembley.

With all due respect, he wasn't hard done by — he didn't have a clue.

I remember debating the merits of Walker staying on at the top of the Bullens Road stand and all the way down the stairs with Barry Horne, after another pathetic performance at the start of that season.

Barry insisted Walker would turn us round and improve us; I told him the longer he stays the worse the situation would get. Luckily, for us, Mike got his comics and P45 not long after that debate.

As an aside, the previous season when he came in, he said he was getting loads of letters off the fans but didn't bother reading them – just put them straight in the bin; not long after he left, he said he had been getting plenty of letters off the fans saying they were sorry he was gone.

I could tell you a few stories about his alleged lifestyle off the field but there would be no point in bringing them up even if they were true. Did he ever manage any other club after Everton?

It's ironic Horne defended him seeing as he thrived to see his replacement Royle.

Are you saying Big Nev was a pudding, then?

Was Deehan the guy who brought through all the youngsters from their academy… Fox, Sutton etc?

Got a bit to go before we equal that.

His stock was so high after what he did against Norwich that had we won just 2 or 3 of the aforementioned games along with the only game we actually did win against West Ham, then we would have been lower mid-table ish and the story would have been that he was "building something under difficult circumstances".

But we didn't, and he was gone. I think he had a second spell in charge of Norwich and a job in Greece but never recaptured anything like his previous success.

John Deehan replaced him at Norwich in '94 and seemed to be doing quite well until they came to Goodison twice in the space of a fortnight in February '95. We beat them 2-1 in the League then smashed them 5-0 in the FA Cup 5th round.

They never recovered from that and ended up relegated and didn't return to the Premier League until 2004.

Sean Dyche's record in his last 31 Premier League matches is: won 9, drawn 8, lost 14.

The truth is that so much more was expected of Everton in those days, and we hadn't realised how far we would fall behind our former peers in the game in the coming years.

Interesting points. To be clear, I think Walker was rubbish – and for years I thought he was in a league of his own as the worst ever… but now I've changed my mind.

Back then, the league was competitive so teams did go from Champions to relegation pretty quick, eg, Villa after winning the European Cup. Now, it's harder for a top team to slide cause they have so much money and so many stars.

So, looking at his record versus a Koeman or Mark Hughes, I think the fact he was a Colchester goalie rather than a star player meant he didn't get any second chances while they have 9 lives.

So he had one great season at Norwich, a bad year at Everton, and that's his lot. Others in the modern game make much more, spend much more, and fail time and time again – but fail upwards somehow.

In hindsight, we should have got Royle when Kendall left and Walker could have stayed at Norwich and maybe he'd have been found out or maybe he'd have continued to do well. But our recent managers have proven to me that he is not in a league of his own for being rubbish – in fact, he's lost in the crowd.

But just as Dyche is finding today, results are the be-all and end-all and Walker's weren't good enough by the standards of the day.

The fans won't countenance reasons or excuses – we get shut, it's just the way it is.

On the follow-up, Big Nev said that he only seemed interested in keeping up his sun tan on the training field!

He was out of his depth in my option. And it was only several years since we we'd been champions twice, won the FA Cup and a European trophy.

As for Neville, he calls it how it is and doesn't pull any punches. I'd love to see an interview with him.

He was Billy big Bollocks at Norwich and brought that attitude to Everton where he was soon challenged by some of the players where his arrogance was not tolerated.

Definitely worst manager ever.

Walker signed Parkinson, Limpar, Samways who I thought was going to be class, (but didn't suit Joe's Dogs of War style), Ferguson and Durrant on loan.

If you look at the massive money Koeman spent on crap, and then Benitez, I'd put them below him!

Peter Johnson sat in the middle, did all the talking. Walker was stuck on the end, not saying much. He'd gone shortly after that.

Brian Denton, what's unfair about it?

'Samways who I thought was going to be class.'

I was excited about Durrant given back then the SPL was competitive. I thought he'd be a class addition but I think he was only here a month.

The funny thing was, we seemed to be 'turning the corner' under Walker with a draw, a win and another draw in his last 3 games. Then it was the international break, my Dad picked me up from school with the news that he'd been sacked!

I definitely agree that he made some good signings for us, players who really blossomed under Big Joe. Even though we were struggling, the 94-95 season holds some great memories for me, personally.

Then we signed Kanchelskis and the Glory Days were on their way back as we were certain to win the League and Cup (again) under Joe Royle with Duncan and Andrei leading the attack!!

The folly of youth, eh.

So I think that's why he went back Rangers early.

Where those said runs of results leaves somebody like Dyche these days is another question.

But results don't lie – do they?

For my money, I reckon them Everton players were a tough group to manage with a fair few strong characters who wouldn't have had a lot of time for Mike Walker.

His signings – Parkinson, Limpar, Rowett, Amokatchi, Samways, Ferguson, Durrant – were more progressive and maybe with time it might have worked. Let's ignore Brett Angell mind... and David Burrows... yeah, I'm talking wham.

You can't lose pretty much every game and he had to go surely. Especially with what Joe Royle then achieved in a short space of time.

I made a list based on achievement, brand of football, memory and the usual personal prejudice, which means unscientific judgement in places. For example, I always had a downer on Gordon Lee for selling Duncan McKenzie. I'll always love Ancolotti for Rodrigo's short moments of bliss, so stuff like that is probably reflected. Here is my list:

Kendall
Catterick.
Royle
Ancelotti
Bingham
Harvey
Lee
Moyes
Martinez
Silva
Dyche
Big Sam
Lampard
Smith
Walker
Benitez
Koeman

Doing a quick search for a more data driven analysis, I discovered a site called EvertonResults.com.

This placed the rankings of Everton Managers (23) in a far more scientific order based on points per game.

Check it out as it contains some surprises. However, the top and bottom three are:

Kendall Mk 1 1
Catterick 2
Ancelotti 3

Lampard 21
Kendall Mk 3. 22 (Shows Howard's sad demise over the years!)
Walker 23

So going back to Kieran's question, ‘Was Mike Walker a Victim?' The evidence is he wasn't. He was as bad as we thought!

Agree mostly with John's list above though I would have Moyes much lower and Martinez higher up the list.

Walker was out of his depth, he had a decent track record at Norwich and Colchester I think but was dealing at a different level when he arrived at goodison, we where just about clinging on to big club status.

11 years of Moyes felt like we had all served a prison sentence compared to the following year of Roberto.

We reached rock bottom with Benitez.

Games: 35, won 6, drew 11, lost 18; win rate: 17.4%

Moyes should be much higher. He improved the team more than anyone.

Koeman did alright as well and moved us up 4 places in his first season. It went to shit in his second season because we lost key players, had to integrate lots of new ones, and had a ridiculous run of games early that season.

Carlo Ancelotti has got the 3rd best win % of any Everton manager, and unlike the 2 ahead of him on the list, he didnt have the luxury of the Moores millions to spend. He is the most successful manager in World football, has won the Champions League more than anyone else, is the only manager ever to win the league in all the 5 European domestic leagues.

He left us because we were skint and had no money to give him to spend, and despite taking over a very poor Everton side, he made only 2 purchases (James and Allan) and he managed to get us top of the league on Boxing day.

I know both Godfrey and Doucoure were signed when he was here but he didn't sign them. As Doucoure has been quoted when he and Godfrey met Ancelotti, he admitted he didn't know much about them.

The stats for our 3 managers with the best win ratio are.

KendallMk 1: games 338 won 183 drew 78 lost 77 giving him a win ratio of 54.14%

Catterick: games 594 won 276 drew 157 lost 161 giving him a win ratio of 46.46%

Ancelotti: games 67 won 31 drew 14 lost 22 giving him a win ratio of 46.27%.

I see Sean Dyche is currently sitting in 17th place overall!
I think what's missing is context... quality teams with quality players win games. In recent years, we certainly haven't had the quality, so realisticaly can we rank managers based purely on win rate?

Winning with donkeys and poor squads is a great deal easier for managers, money usually gets you quality. I would love to see how a Pep would get on with an Ipswich or Southampton... at least you would get a different and more accurate analysis of the value and expertise of a manager.

Who went on to do great things? Well Ancelotti certainly, Martinez, Koeman run national teams.. the rest? Nothing of real note.

So how to value a manager? Circumstance vs Results and Objectives... that's not just a points thing. Dyche had to keep us up; he has done it... but he is 17th in the rankings, not a reflection of his "successful objective" but his win rate.

Donkeys some... so win rates don't tell the story of a manager.

Moyes is the ghost of Christmas Past. Personally, I wouldn't go there as he will divide us in my opinion.

If we change manager, think forward. If I was Everton King for a day, I'd be looking to the continent.

I don't want to go political, but to coin a recent political slogan, Change. The club needs change. Not back to the past.

Peter Johnson reported at the time how he'd spent hours, over many evenings, trying to explain to Walker how to be a manager. Without noticeable success.

I think he must've got his job here after hammering us 5-1 at Goodison, Ekoku got 4, all breakaways from memory.

It's how the club has been run since we last won the league that has laid the foundation – or should I call it subsidence? – for the situation we have been in.

I'm optimistic brighter times are in front of us. It's going to require change. From the top down, and I think that will happen once the ownership is sorted. I think it could happen quick, as they've already been through a period of exclusivity.

Over to the fat cats in Paddington to approve it.

I'm wracking my brain now trying to think which players came to Everton when Kendall first started as the Everton manager; I can only remember Mick Ferguson off the top of my head!

Come on, mate!

Everton's greatest goalie and another very good ‘keeper among the seven;

Mike Walsh – not soft lad's brother but a big centre half;

Biley, the striker with the daft hairstyle;

Ferguson as you mentioned;

A midfielder beginning with “C”; and

The lad from the Four Squares who wore the top hat when you saw us win the cup in 1984 after Everton invited you down.

I think that was Mick Ferguson, signed from Coventry and he was a centre-forward or was supposed to be. Tall and very thin.

And we have to remember at the time, only the Champions qualified for Europe's premier competition unlike now, which is designed to allow clubs to qualify even if they don't win their leagues.

Then the dreadful start to the 1983-84 season, culminating in calls for him to go in that dark December, hovering above the relegation zone and looking in deep trouble.

Then into the New Year and we turned the corner, finished 7th, went to two cup finals and won the FA Cup.

What happened next is history. But what a history to live through. Teenage Danny was mesmerised.

There is my expectation for Everton, and no-one will ever take that away from me. I won't accept anything less.

Kendall after a poor start had to learn how to get a squad together without much money, after he wasted plenty when he first came, so how he performed later needs a lot of respect.

But never ever leave out the massive support he received from his assistant Colin Harvey who was appointed the day after the leaflets were handed out saying it was time for him to go.

Peter Reid came into the team that night after being mysteriously left out previously.

Who is or was the best manager is a matter of personnel opinion, mine is Harry Catterick by a mile, although many fans of that era would choose Johnie Carey over Catterick and strangely he is not on the above list.

Nobody can argue with Ancelotti's record or ability except to say half-way through his time at Everton he reverted to much the same way as Big Sam and Dyche and I'd say he had a better squad than Sean Dyche, as he said “I'm not a magician” or words to that effect — I think some of us gathered that!

Mind you, has any other manager of a European Cup Finalist team let a three-goal lead slip away, I bet you he got called a lot of not very nice names by a multitude of Evertonians that night!

Mick Ferguson scored in the derby at Anfield but unfortunately Liverpool scored three to win. Mick never looked like he was fit, ran in a funny way, and didn't last long…

But his replacement became an idol at Goodison. After being transferred to Villa for a very high price fee, we got him relatively very cheap, Andy Gray then sold him back to Villa when many wanted him to be kept on.

Paul, I'm not particularly a fan of Sean Dyche as he still hasn't learned to manage a match and use of subs since his Burnley days. However, I don't like the media stating this while Sean is still our manager.

It seems Walker's name had been used as an excuse to rake up salacious stories published by grubby little tabloids about two former Everton players at the time – they both get mentioned more than Walker does. So does the sister of a "well known" (only this time, unnamed) Norwich first-team regular.

There was no fan base divide when Walker was sacked. Calls or his dismissal were just about universal. Any latent, 25-year-old question about that decision should at least offer something about the guy himself.

Glad to see those responding have turned this tittle-tattle into something resembling a football debate.

Mick Ferguson was like a stick insect and only played 8 games for us but got 4 goals.

Andy Gray was signed from Wolves.

I was reading Brian Harris's autobiography, Dave. He didn't like Carey a bit. He reckoned he gave a greater preference to the Irish players.

Was Alan Ainscow another of those signings by Kendall?

Also Alan Irvine.

From discussions with family, I always got the impression that Harry Catterick was a disciplinary character and a bit distant. But for falling short of a European trophy, he was't far off matching Kendall.

Very understated and not mentioned much in our history. Hopefully the Heritage Society or FAB can do something, especially as we move to the new Everton Stadium. He should be recognised. I do like my statues.

I was at the Ipswich match when he died. I was also at the one when Dixie Dean passed. Maybe it's me?

Obviously for me, due to my age, it will always be Howard Kendall. I know we have the Holy Trinity statue, but my favourite images of him are the pride on his face as the team went to lift the FA Cup, the first trophy I witnessed us lift at Wembley. And then similarly in Rotterdam when we lifted a European trophy.

I'll use military analogy. Howard Kendall was like the Commanding Officer, making sure everyone was okay. Colin Harvey was his Sergeant Major, barking out the orders!!

Also, because of John Moores, he could sign anybody he wanted, but still failed to win the European Cup as it was then, which for me was unforgiveable. I think, had Moores had the bottle to make Clough our manager, we would have won the European Cup.

I know Christine asked the question: Would Guardiola be as successful with Southampton or Norwich? I don't know, but I know he has taken 3 local lads Palmer, Foden and Lewis and made them outstanding players. No doubt there will be many in their various academies which will become household names because of Guardiola.

Although Howard Kendall was successful in the end, I don't believe he would have achieved that without Colin Harvey. Also his second and third spells were awful.

These two have an Irish connection and great affection for the club. Carsley only left for family/personal reasons!

My recollection is that he finally won a game in that 1994-95 season, a home game, might have been West Ham, then got sacked. It was totally justified - he was useless.

That said Joe Parkinson (& I think it was Gary Rowett who went on to have a steady career just not with us) were signed in summer. Parkinson from Bournemouth I think and he looked the epitome of a lower league player during Walker’s short reign but eventually looked an international class player before injury wrecked him.

He also signed Limpar and sold Beagrie which seemed to me like for like at the time but I couldn’t have been more mistaken. Limpar was absolute class a genius / but then eventually fell out with Royle after singing a contract and then wanting more parity with top earners later on.

A shame because him and Kanchelskis on each wing, as shown at Anfield away 95-96 would terrorise the opposition.

I think reality gets drummed into you at a very early age, you have to learn which way is up, when to roll and when to stand up again, turn around and give as good as you get.

If there is one unique thing that is in a scousers DNA, it's the ability to see others for who they really are. To filter out the crap ('noise' according to Sean) and tell it how they see it.

Funny thing, I never went to Allison's, but I did go to it when it was the ABC picture house on a few Saturday mornings! Mind you I also went to a few Saturday night cruises on the Royal Iris... I can still hear Proud Mary...

Back to the footie..
Has to be Catterick for me, but I still can't forgive or forget him selling Bally, he lost an awful lot of respect when he did that.

Yes Andy Gray was signed from Wolves, my mistake, and Ainscow was the one I couldn't think of. I don't think Alan Irvine was one of the original seven but I think he made his debut against Stoke in a night game but the best player on the field, for me, was Howard Kendall the player manager. I never had any problems recalling great players and Howard was one of them.

I think Bobby Collins was another great player, one of my favourites. He was also his own man and stuck up for himself in arguements with Catterick so Harry let him go saying he was getting good money for him at his age.

He might have regretted that later seeing as how Bobby played at Leeds for a good few years and was part of the revitalised club that Leeds became under Revie.

Alan Ball was another many thought Catterick got rid of too soon, but Alan also was frightened of having a go for himself but Catterick argued he got double the sum he paid for him and it was time for him to go.

I'd argue Alan, although giving good service to Arsenal, was never as good for them as he had been for Everton. Arsenal sold him on, like Everton did, while they could get a good price for him when they sold him to Southampton… I think they call it good business.

As for Catterick not winning the European Cup being unforgivable they lost 1-0 over two legs to the eventual winners that season Inter Milan and had to play the 18 year old Colin Harvey, making his debut I think in the second leg, so even with John Moores money they never had a large squad, and Harry wasn't the only manager spending big money, Spurs, United, Arsenal and even Liverpool were all using cheques, in fact Liverpool were nobodies even under Shankley until they gave him the readies to spend.

Ball was sold because he needed money to pay off his gambling debts.

Yes I like to think we can argue with the best no matter who or what they are but also ready to put our hands up and accept it when we are wrong and a lot of debates are really just different opinions – not just black and white but plenty of grey as well.

I hope you are sleeping better with this news of a takeover coming very soon, best wishes and good health as always, Christine.

Wasn't it Kanchelskis who had to keep moving because he was so much in debt? Ball says in his autobiography that he was in tears when he heard Catterick was going to sell him. He didn't want to move.

Catterick said that we'd had his best years and we were doubling our money on the transfer fee that we'd paid. A purely monetary decision.

Ball was a gambler but I don't think it was his debts then that caused him to move. He was also, apparently, a bit disruptive in the dressing room.

It was at a sportsman's evening at Goose Green labour club in Wigan over 40 years ago, that Catterick said Ball needed the money from a transfer.

What in God's name were you doing in Wigan?
.

Your version of why Ball was sold also appears in a biography of Catterick's which also stated that Ball was being very disruptive around the club and particularly on the training ground, which was upsetting some of the players, it also stated that he was in tears telling his teammates “He wants to sell me”.

I remember reading in the Daily Express the day after the transfer Alan's dad seemed very happy with it, stating that Alan had got a very good deal and had doubled his wages.

I'm not sure which versions are correct but without a doubt, if those transfers (Ball to Everton then Arsenal) had happened 10 years ago or even longer, Alan would have been more than settled for life.

On the Saturday for Everton's first home game without Bally, Goodison Road was very quiet and in shock and disbelief.

Alan Ball senior was a strange sort of cove. Always seemed overly involved in his son's career.

Like he was living his dreams through his son.

Not sure if Alan's dad was a professional footballer but I think he was manager of Preston North End at one time so maybe he gave Alan loads of advice concerning football.

I've heard he was a very likeable character off a couple of mates, one who met him on holiday and had a few drinks with him each night they were together.

Thanks for the warm wishes. Yes, the news that an agreement had been reached lifted the blanket of gloom over my household and my spirits!

Made worse by my doctor – who is a Red from Old Swan, I think – keeps suggesting I go on anti depressants!

But there is a little spring in my step once more and a wicked glint in my eye, the good one, lol.

I think the name of the club might have attracted Les to Wigan!

And as for being in Wigan Guffers… I live there!

1. Alan Biley – after a great start, he quickly lost form and was sold within a year.

2. Alan Ainscow – a decent winger who suffered a bad injury in his first season and was never the same player afterwards.

3. Mikey Thomas – another good player, who unfortunately quickly fell out with Kendall for refusing to play for the reserves when coming back after an injury, and was subsequently quickly sold.

4. Jim Arnold – a very steady and reliable goalkeeper who was first choice for Kendall's early period.

5. Mike Walsh – a decent centre-back who again was hampered by injuries he sustained at Everton.

6. Mick Ferguson – a very good centre-forward who unfortunately was almost always injured. We signed him injured, so maybe the writing was on the wall.

7. Neville Southall – signed as cover for Jim Arnold (we had lost our two previous keepers that summer) and one for the future. He went on to be not only Everton's greatest ever goalkeeper but, for a time, the best goalkeeper in the world.

Dave, you're taking me back to my youth. I remember John Gidman, Duncan McKenzie (he's magic) and randomly Peter Eastoe. The reason being, I vividly remember being in the lower Gwladys near the front behind the goal. Kendall came on as a sub and gave him a right rollocking that we could hear for his lack of movement.

Howard was player manager then, but still had a bit in his locker. I'm glad to say I watched him play, even if if wasn't in his hey day.

That, to me, smacks of Catterick covering his arse, knowing how much Ball's sale had infuriated as well as dismayed the fanbase. Posters still come on TW saying it's the worst transfer out of the club ever.

Dave's post @60 also contradicts Catterick's version in Wigan when he was no doubt confronted by scores of Blues fans who may have enjoyed a scoop or two and who would have taken him to task for selling their hero.

Built like a brick shithouse, but with size 7 feet.

Jinky Jim we called him. Can't remember his second name.

McDonough, he comes as Jim then later said he wanted to be known as Seamus, that wasn't the name some fans called him!